coming up on tonight's episode of Faith versus culture the American gospel verse the biblical gospel conversation with Dr Michael Brown coming up next [Music] day before you marry is a bad idea don't tell me there's no such thing as gun violence that just depends on your definition of when life begins there are problems of sin and habit that cannot be solved outside the person of our Lord Jesus Christ foreign welcome to this episode of Faith versus culture right here on the CBN News Channel my name is Dan Andros I'm managing editor from cbn's faithwire.com joined
as always by Billy Hallowell also of cbn's faithwire Billy big topic today it is yeah this political seduction of the church that is the topic and also the title of a new book from Dr Michael Brown um and you know just before we bring him on here it's it's really interesting because the church is in a fascinating position right now with where we are you know politically culturally and socially and then because of that sort of theologically yeah absolutely and and you're seeing more and more on both sides of the aisle this is not unique
to one political party but I think you're seeing this merger this sort of um confusion when it comes to what our Allegiance is actually to ultimately and I think people struggle with this they they think that their political views are ultimately the most in line with the gospel but we're gonna as we're going to examine today is that the right way to be thinking about it so I'm really looking forward to this conversation oh yeah and it's interesting because the the subtitle of the book is how millions of American Christians have confused politics with the
gospel so we want to welcome Dr Michael Brown to the show today how you doing doing great so good to be with you all right so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna start with it with a simple question and that question is what convinces you that Christians have really confused politics with the gospel in this way well I'm an eyewitness to it I live through it as as we did especially in the 2020 elections I agree that we're dealing with existential issues I agree that the Battle For Life pro-life the battle for family international issues
Israel there are massive things and we really realize that that one party may be going in a direction that we agree with and the other party we disagree with or one candidate is going to fight for us and the other candidate gonna fight against us but when we put our trust in the political system to change society when we become more consumed with winning the elections than winning the lost when we Marry The Gospel with with politics when our Christianity becomes an appendage to a political party we have confused politics with the gospel I never
saw more fervent prayer Across America than I did among Believers right before and after the 2020 elections but it wasn't prayer for Revival it was in prayer for the Great Commission it was prayer for a candidate to win the elections a candidate I voted for but recognizing that only Jesus can save America and when we look to a person to do what only God can do when we look to a flawed human system because politics is part of the flawed human world when we look to that to do what only the gospel can do we
have been confused and I watched it happen in front of my eyes almost to fever pitch we were more obsessed with the elections than we were in love with Jesus at least that's how it felt yeah so how hesitant were you to write this book I'm interested for this answer because regardless you know that the tribalism is so um exaggerated these days more than ever and so we've always had partisanship but it feels like the tribalism through social media and everything else has is so um just so uh elevated right now that no matter what
you say it feels like this is all you're gonna you're gonna get hit from one side or the other probably both sides yeah I wasn't hesitant at all because I knew it needed to be written and I felt burdened by the Lord and that's that's something that ever matters to me it's not a matter of Courage it's a matter of when you know what you have to do you do it when the need is there you get involved but I'm not naive I fully understand that many will be offended look we got to a point
where the issue is not in the church who is Jesus but who is Trump because I'm not blaming him for this I'm not blaming him I'm blaming us you had Christians saying you cannot be a Christian and vote for a man like that you had other Christians saying if you don't vote for Trump you're not a Christian and I thought I thought the thing that divided us was who Jesus is that's what separates us from the world the moment I began to address certain issues like all the failed prophecies that Trump was going to serve
eight consecutive years what it didn't happen and and people buying into Q Anon conspiracy theories I mean I had I had minister of the Gospel friends telling me you watch Biden is about to be removed by the military he's a puppet president Trump is about to be reinstalled they were given the dates when it was going to happen and the moment I confronted these things I lost thousands of social media followers so be it we're not in it for numbers or popularity I just want people to hear the message because if the church doesn't get
things right it's all over for America and our calling is so Transcendent it's so higher than politics we get involved in politics but we're not an appendage to the political system we are in this world but not of it we operate based on different principles and if we are more are allegiance to a candidate or a party then we are known for allegiance to Jesus our priorities are out of whack so I know for our good we must get this right so I thought I had to write the book regardless of the consequences well and
we're going to talk about the prophecies after two because I think it's important to actually dig into that a little bit more but one of the things I I want to sort of talk about here briefly is and maybe it's a clarifying point for people you believe that Christians should be involved in politics you're not saying don't be involved in politics that's not your message so where is that line though because you know being involved in politics and then going off the rails where is the line there so that people sort of know how to
appropriately from a Christian perspective engage in our political system yeah so the last chapter of the book I really try to break it down practically so it's not just theoretical but always always I say it repeatedly yes we should be involved in politics yes it's a sacred privilege that we have living in a Democratic Society society as opposed to living in Ancient Rome or we're communist China today so we should exercise our prerogatives so we should all be informed about the major issues we should know where the candidates stand on those issues some are called
to Greater involvement to Lobby others are called to run for office but we have to put first things first our emphasis is Gospel first our emphasis is Great Commission first and then we never compromise our convictions I just did a Twitter poll Billy where I asked people what's more important for the long-term good of America to get our candidate of choice in the white house or for the church to maintain its witness it's like 95 96 said for the church to maintain its witness so we never bring ourselves down into the dirt of politics but
we enter as God's people so it's a matter of emphasis it's a matter of priorities it's a matter of keeping pure in the midst of something that's often filled with corruption and compromise what do you think Dr Brown is the trigger that leads people into that into sort of this area where they've become so willing to just turn a blind eye to certain things in order to support a candidate what do you think causes that yeah so it is seduction which is subtle I think the issues are so important to us when you think about
the shedding of innocent blood when you think about radical transgender activism when you think about say the the rise of China and what that could do and you think if we get this candidate in they're going to fight fighting for religious Liberties for for the generations to come for our kids for our grandkids we get so caught up in the moment that we misplace our trust and then because we are so influenced by secular media and by the the mob mentality on social media that we just get caught up and before we know it we
sound more like partisan political people we confuse America with the kingdom of God we wrap the gospel in the American flag so it's a subtle thing it's understandable I have a chapter on how president Trump went from our candidate to a political uh superhero to a savior to the point that people are saying only Trump can save America I don't blame him for that I blame us for thinking in that way but it's because the thing is so intense and because we get so caught up and we're provoked by by the the drum beat of
the world that we lose our spiritual bearings if we were spiritually deeper if we were more discipled if we were more grounded in the word and secret prayer I don't think we'd be so easily seduced yeah I mean good words I mean I do think that I mean you mentioned the hope and I do think that that is one area where people go off the rails is just putting their hope in politics for yearning for some sort of perfect Paradise you know of course you want to you know support the candidates that support your values
but I think we can do that and temper that with realizing that this is a fallen world and you're not going to have some Garden of Eden here that that people Pine for like you're just not going to get that you know it's more about our sanctification process along the road and what do we do with the circumstances that are around us that glorifies God so all right we're going to take a quick break here and be back with more uh with Dr Michael Brown after the break this is Faith versus culture on the CBN
News Channel is a bad idea don't tell me there's no such thing as gun violence that just depends on your definition of when life begins watch Dan and Dale tackle trending topics that test your faith on the next Faith wire Monday night at 8 30 on the CBN News Channel the global Lane takes you around the world providing facts over fiction what might Rising trade and geopolitical tensions mean for you on the home front with over 45 years of experience award-winning journalist Gary Lane brings you the truth from a global angle what about the issue
of immigration world news analysis you won't see anywhere else and it's all right here on the global Lane Thursday night at 8 30 on the CBN News Channel reactions [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] we're back with more of Faith versus culture we're here with Dr Michael Brown now Dr Brown you were talking about something in the last segment that I find really interesting and it's that sort of cultural coming into the church right and we saw this with Obama and we saw it again with Trump with Obama there were a lot of claims of
oh look you know people on the left are worshiping him he's being held up you know as a messiah and there were all sorts of jokes about that but it does seem like culture has come into the church in some ways as you were talking about how do we course correct that how do we turn back time on that and fix it yeah we've got to become jesus-centered Jesus consumed God consumed people President Obama was the chosen one I mean they had they had the Messianic imagery it was he was the chosen one and and
I I saw pastors Christian leaders quoting scriptures about the Messiah the anointed one the Christ and applying that to Trump thinking what what are we have we lost our minds but it's just like Israel when they wanted a king because they weren't happy with God you have to think your average kid let's say they go off to school they're they're in a secular environment a public school and maybe ungodly influences all day and then you think if they spend three minutes of quality conversation with their parents that's not going to undo all the Drone what's
the same with with adults if we are just absorbed with the news cycle if we are just consumed with the latest social media posts blasting this one and mocking this one and so on and so forth and getting all worked up they're stealing the elections for us or we'll never be free again whatever it is and then we come to church once a week that's not going to balance it out so what we have to do is regain our Focus I've been doing monthly prayer Retreats I cut down on my travel schedule to spend one
weekend a month just alone with God praying and seeking his face it has been so important for me to do that even with the business of ministry you get pulled no no get back down in the street everything is small in this world America is small the most famous politician is small the kingdoms of this Earth are here today gone tomorrow only God is being only God demands that level of worship and look whoever comes in whatever the political leader is there's only so much good they can do because they're regular human beings and we
got a system with the good old boys and this party versus that party it's only the gospel that's going to bring about real change and in this world we'll never see complete transformation until Jesus returns so the whole heart and soul of this is to recapture our adoration for the Lord and and then with a Burning Heart let's go out and make a difference in our communities let's go out and bring the Great Commission let's go out and help those in need even if you look at the the blms and antifas and these others and
the riots and The Madness of that behind it is this idea of a Marxist Utopia that that everything is going to be equal and perfect for everyone it's not going to happen it's not going to happen in the political system on either side side but the gospel is the Hope if we refocus on the Lord and regain our passion and adoration for him then the Lesser Gods will fade away yeah and um and I think people forget a few things number one they forget uh that God is the one who raises and deposes Kings so
any ruler that comes in did not come in apart from the sovereignty of God so I mean that is something to keep in mind a lot of people were saying like you know a lot of Christians will say like oh well this leader you know when the guy they like is in they say this person was in I look look at what God's doing here well God's also doing something when the other guy gets in right you I mean look at how many bad kings there were in Israel over the years I mean it's it's
a lot more than good ones in fact so I've asked the question uh for those of us who voted for Trump and and thank God for the good that he did and for the access Christian leaders had to him it was unprecedented and he had many good appointees I'm deeply grateful for that and and he he paid quite a price for doing that the problem is when we have quote our man for those of us who voted for him our man in the white house we tend to look to the White House and when we
don't have our man in we tend to look to God In Prayer often we see greater Revival in the church greater progress in the church where we have someone in power that we don't like because we get the one in that we like and we put our trust in them and it seems we never learn often what we think is for our worst is actually for our best if we'll learn our lessons amen this is exactly where I was going with that my next point was going to be I think Christians don't like to hear
this but where Christianity not that you Pine for you know oppression and and you know different persecutions going on but when you look at where Christianity flourishes a lot of times there's a common theme and I mean look where it's flourishing now in China in the Middle East Iran all these places you're seeing Christianity emerge it's where they're oppressed the most and and I think it's exactly for uh the reason that you mentioned so um I want to just turn to the people watching that like how can they Dr Brown in your estimation kind of
gauge when maybe they've kind of veered into this territory what do you think they should be looking for to think maybe I have an unhealthy balance here yes so I I do my best in the political seduction of the church to be practical and to to sketch out this is what happened in other words here are the symptoms did this happen to you you know you go to a doctor and he starts asking you questions for the symptoms so we try to lay out some of the symptoms I mentioned when we're more consumed with winning
the elections than winning the loss when we wrap the gospel in the flag but I'd say what what's the condition of your heart are you absorbed with the Lord worshiping him recognizing that God is on the throne or are you just focused because we've got to win these elections we gotta we gotta shift the balance of power what what dominates your thinking well if I went to your social media page would I see that you're just like the world that you're attacking the other side that you're just nasty that that you're posting memes mocking a
political candidate or what I find that it's about the Lord and about honoring the Lord and about blessing your brothers and sisters where's your focus what dominates your heart the late Larry King made a comment that that he sought All Over America during the Trump presidency that not a day went by that his name was not mentioned at least one time in someone's home Across America and I thought I wonder in Christian homes what we're talking about more who we're talking about more who has our focus and are we confident having prayed and put everything
in God's hands that he is Sovereign and in control or do we think everything is out of control and in the hands of of Earthly people I I had to guard my heart against election fever in 2020 because I knew as one who writes on these things and does radio on these things it's so easy to get caught up I'd have to step back and worship God and say you are God You Were King exactly what you said you are sovereign and and I bow down is there peace and confidence in your heart there or
constant agitation because of the elections something's wrong if it's the latter I think back to the fact that a lot of times when our guy right is in office the person we like we also tend to not pay attention we tend not to look at what is going on in terms of oh if there's something that's there that maybe violates truth or isn't good we're not going to talk about it we're going to pretend it's okay or we're going to excuse it and I think that's worth talking about for a moment because it would seem
as Believers we're called to truth not that we have to condemn the person we like in office but that if something is going on how should we be reacting to it as Christians if it's something that does clearly violate the truth yes so the first priority is US maintaining our witness before the watching world that is the number one priority before the Lord and for the good of our country so we got blasted because we are the Moral Majority we are the values voters we are the ones shouting character counts and and critics were pulling
out even Christian critics all these quotes from Evangelical leaders as to why we could not vote for Bill Clinton by that same logic we couldn't have voted for Donald Trump and we just kind of swept it under the carpet the right answer was to say yes we don't like these aspects of his life but right now it's an existential battle for the for the life of The Unborn and we think he'll save more baby lies and that's important but when he behaves in a way that we don't like we say so I found that many
would rally to defend him by saying we're not electing a pastor we're electing a president I understand but we're first and foremost known as followers of Jesus so what we had to be it sometimes was that the president's loyal opposition to use a phrase from an Old Testament scholar about the prophets of Israel we have to say Sir with all respect we appreciate what you're doing but you cannot Savage people like this you cannot call people dogs you cannot act in this way we cannot stand to together with you and doing it and I know
some of the men on the president's Faith advisory Council were always in the space for this very issue but we didn't feel that on a national level your average person watching TV would get the idea that we evangelicals were in bed with Trump and there was nothing he could do that would offend us because he was our man and it made us look hypocritical and it hurt our witness yeah tough words there but uh truth that needs to be heard Dr Michael Brown uh the book is the political seduction of the church how millions of
American Christians have confused politics with the gospel there's a lot more we could talk about but we're going to have to leave it there because of time would encourage everyone to get the book and really appreciate you spending a few minutes with us here today on the program well thanks for having me I appreciate it foreign [Music] that inspires your spiritual growth while winning prizes the all-new my CVN app connect with the community for prayer and encouragement track and set spiritual goals enjoy conversation starters with friends and family and collect points to win prizes the
all-new my CBN app a great place to belong download the app at cbn.com mobile nutrition exercise essential oils weight loss and more it's healthy living with Lori Johnson talk about what's in this join CBN Health reporter Lori Johnson to get the latest information from today's top health experts this is fantastic find out what you need to know to live a healthier life watch Healthy Living Tuesday night at 8 30 on the CBN News Channel [Music] thank you foreign we carry baggage from our past you know what it's like it affects everything and everyone in our
lives it's always there weighing us down and keeping us from achieving true happiness but do you know God never meant for us to be trapped in the past you can be free of your baggage learn how God's forgiveness leads to changed lives and New Beginnings call the 700 Club all right we're back here on faith versus culture and Bill a great conversation with Dr Brown it was it was great having him on he um you know does a lot of work and writing and Theology and covering the news and so uh great to hear his
perspective on thing and honestly it's one of those things that should be a convicting truth to us because we all you know get into the politics game like it's sport from time to time and we all probably go too far at some times and so it's good to step back and evaluate what is ultimately at the top spot in our hearts well and as people absolutely as people who have often criticized culture being so dire and terrible as we have appropriately we should also be assessing how much is culture come into our lives not only
in general but specifically when it comes to politics how we're processing world events this is something that should be a constant state of reassessment right so I love that he talked so passionately about that yeah yeah and it's and again the the way he struck that balance between no you fight for the issues that you care about this doesn't mean you just lay down and let the the quote unquote opposition roll over you not that at all you still fight for your values but you don't step over the line to where you're fighting for your
values at the expense of some of your other values right and so you've got to balance that there and sometimes especially now how hyper political it is that can easily uh get out of balance so a great conversation with Dr Michael Brown today we'll be back to wrap it up on the other side of the break this is Faith versus culture thank you are you suffering from feeling tired or worn out during the day can you not turn off your brain at night You Are Not Alone hi I'm Dr Michael Bruce the sleep doctor and
I've partnered with the Christian Broadcasting Network and we're going to bring you some unbelievable information that you can use tonight to get a better night's rest wake up to your best life call 1-800-700-7000 or go to cbn.com to get your free copy of protect your sleep today nutrition exercise essential oils weight loss and more it's healthy living with Lori Johnson talk about what's in this join CBN Health reporter Lori Johnson to get the latest information from today's top health experts this is fantastic find out what you need to know to live a healthier life watch
Healthy Living Tuesday night at 8 30 on the CBN News Channel woohoo hi Superbook fans here's something else you'll love new Superbook Bible app it's packed with games activities and Superbook episodes that you can watch for free there's trivia a fun Daily Devotional and answers to your Bible questions plus an easy to understand Bible the whole family will enjoy you can even create your own Superbook characters [Music] excuse me ouch are you kidding this earn super points to win daily prizes too and so much time to get back to my Adventures see you soon it's
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