Ambassador McFall let me read you this it was the scoop and axios about Elon musk's role uh Donald Trump's phone call with President Ukrainian president zilinski on Wednesday included two surprises Elon Musk was on the line and zilinski was somewhat reassured by what he heard from the president-elect that's according to two sources with knowledge of the call the new details of the call underscore how influential mus could be in the second Trump Administration and the uncertainty over how exactly Trump will approach Ukraine why might president zalinsky have been reassured by musk's presence on the call
well I don't know if he actually was but that's exactly what he has to say okay um and W which is to say that uh you were just talking about we were talking about Europe before the break uh many countries including in Ukraine I was just in Berlin and Prague a few weeks ago they've been planning for this outcome uh this isn't this is not like 2016 they've been courting various people that they think are in the Trump orbit to try to get their ear particularly the ukrainians because they are in an existential fight for
the sovereignty of their country and right after uh President elect won the election who was the first to tweet about it and and flattering ways just like Vladimir Putin understands flattery zalinsky does too um zalinski is leaning into this idea of an outsider right a television personality Outsider just like you Mr Trump because he has to do all that he can to now work with this Administration he doesn't have the luxury of sitting in Palo Alto like I do and as analyzing what uh you know what these populists are going to do he is in
a fight for his life and now he has to deal with president-elect Trump and people around him like Elon Musk who might just pop on calls from time to time in the new second Trump term you know Ben uh rhods a a Ukrainian friend said to me um that Trump is still Trump um that he can still be um easily and almost admittedly um maneuvered by flattery the whole world knows that how might that be used by clever leaders in democracies to serve democracy you know uh I hate to be pessimistic about this Nicole um
but look we have to learn from the first time around and I talked to a lot of European governments at that time as I'm sure Mike and John did they all tried it right you remember mcon really tried to flatter him ended up in getting tariffs and in huge spats uh Teresa may tried to flatter him ended up in the same place they're all going to try it again because why not they have to I just don't think at the end of the day they're the people he likes you know people who run liberal democracies
are not the people that Donald Trump feels Affinity to around the world that's what he says you know you have you ever heard him when he lists his friends like like Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un and all these people he's never listing you know maybe Boris Johnson might sneak in there I guess um but now you got a labor government in the UK so they they'll try flattering but I think what's actually more important is to know what your backup plan is here if you're the ukrainians or if you're the Europeans um and and and
to know you know in the United States system I think it's also really important for those people to be talking to republicans in Congress you know that that actually worked better um for Ukraine uh including in the Trump Administration a lot of the assistance that flowed to Ukraine in the Trump Administration was because there were a large majorities in Congress including Republicans who wanted to do that so it's not just about you know Trump himself and can I build this personal relationship with him um because the reality is you know I'm sure Trump was very
nice to zalinski because if people flatter him you know he says nice things back but I think we've seen that doesn't necessarily translate him into doing the thing um that you want him to do the Elon Musk part of this is is pretty notable too um you know it's kind of oligarchy uh Vibes Nicole it's it's uh in the sense that you've got these kind of titans of Industry who are also uh Titans of government it's very Putin esque frankly uh early early years of Putin as Mike knows to have these kind of oligarchs who
are both businessmen but kind of helping to run the government but what's alarming there is that Elon Musk himself has you know tweeted out um that you know he supports his peace plan that is basically Putin's peace plan which is you kind of freeze the conflict and Russia gets everything they currently have I frankly I agree with mik that's probably not even on the table Russia's going to push further um but it does speak to the fact he's going to play this kind of strange role um that's blending his business interest and his government role
and his advisory role and that's a new Dynamic we haven't seen that in the United States in a very long time um I want to show you some of what um I think you're talking about Ben Rose which is that when given the opportunity to say something nice about a Democratic leader he never takes it when giving opportunity even in Friendly interviews to condemn the world's dictators he never takes that either here's Trump on Orban and she that was the question they asked Victor Orban who's really a very considered a very strong they said he's
a strong man sometimes you need a strong man he's a strong man they said he called president she brilliant well he's a brilliant guy he controls 1.4 billion people with an iron fist I mean he's a brilliant guy whether you like it or not and they go crazy right it doesn't he's not evil or it doesn't mean he's not of dangerous but but actually we have evil people in our country that Rogan clip um director Brennon a so remn sent it of an interview that um Trump did with Joe Garo um and and um the
guy at Fox O'Reilly where he's questioning him about Putin and and he says you know Joe did and you know but he kills people he kills journalists he and and Trump to finally say we kill people too and there and and you know good on good on um Mr Rogan there to say it doesn't mean he's not dangerous it doesn't mean he's not evil and Trump sees no difference between the brutality um in an autocracy and what his role will be as president what signal does that send to you director Brennan it sends the signal
that Donald Trump is most impressed by ruthless strength and wealth and if you look at the people that he Associates with and speaks highly of whether it be a Vladimir Putin or xiin ping or Victor Orban these are individuals who have been able to manipulate the politics and the system within their countries in order to suppress any opposition and to be the authoritarian leader that I think Donald Trump wants to be also Elon Musk being the wealthiest person in the world this is something that Donald Trump salivates over and wants to have a person like
Elon Musk very much Associated and affiliated with with the administration you know when Donald Trump was elected in 2016 I was hoping that he was going to grow into the role of the presidency in fact I told the CI Workforce you know that he once he assumes the responsibilities of the presidency that he's going to recognize just how important that role is and his first term was a serious disappointment in that regard and unfortunately I think we have a track record here and now this second term he's limited supposedly by Constitution by law into only
two terms uh that he is going to I think try to do as much as he can in order to be the disruptive leader the autocratic authoritarian leader that he wants to be and so I do think that looking at the years ahead this is going to be a very turbulent time not just for US National Security and domestic policy but also for the the global uh landscape in terms of how the US role is evolving and how Russia China and others are going to take advantage of that for
