Full unedited unaltered Wes Huff vs. Billy Carson debate

All right what's up everyone and I'm trying to move this stuff and uh yeah they'll do an awesome job editing this intro to make it way more fancy than this but I'm here with my good man Billy Carson who I've known Billy personally for for some years now yeah solid friend great character businessman he's he's been on elevating Beyond last time sharing your whole story behind the Story and what you hugely specialize in as well you just came back from Egypt is like The Emerald Tablets you've been studying those since what you were like six

or something I think no not the Emerald Tablets yeah The Emerald Tablets I've been studying for the last probably 10 years okay yeah but since I was six I was studying Aerospace uh technology which then led me into understanding more about Advanced Technologies and then finding the link between advanced Technology and ancient civilizations uh and going on a you know literally a 25 year 27 year now goodness Trek around the world been around the world now over 18 times last year spent nine months in hotels I remember as you know uh you you're my witness

uh leaving this big old mansion behind and not going home at all and uh travel grind traveling non-stop to to these ancient sites to get the information U Hands-On okay and that was weird I just heard a Little chunk Wes Wes you there it's frozen be too easy if it works perfect right yeah I know what is he calling in on what is that app I this is through uh stream deck have to ask Carl through it actually works great usually there's something going on with a WiFi I think it's pretty cool I'm just trying

to figure I think it's on his end his connection yeah I'm just trying to Figure out like what is the name of this this thing you're using this portal it's um I want to actually press it's e oh I think it's all through ecam ecam okay gotta yeah so they have their own length in it nice you can set this up for different guests you can make when Carl was here through like Eric Thomas we're just doing the show waiting for him to call back yeah um yeah he helped get some of these pre things

going but you can get way more Fancy you got someone that yeah I'm just like how do I do it yeah where I think it's a pretty cool pretty cool platform uh let me actually try to jump back in Okay cool so we'll we'll figure this out in some editing and stuff or maybe we'll just leave this in but as um Wesley's getting ready to jump on Wesley Huff is so with Billy like we've you can watch the previous show and I've had the honor of being on his podcast so likeminded in so many ways

and I've been Talking about this for a while I'm like it'd be interesting to have you on and discuss I don't love overly getting obsessed with the word religion so I would say more of where some of the beliefs differ if I if I was to be connected to a religion it would be closest to Christianity and the Bible although the Old Testament I have still it's the New Testament and Jesus's teachings I have my whole life story Where that changed me and Transform Me belief belief wise as a person and um okay it says

he's in the Green Room okay and and let's see we got Wes on hello hello Wes we got you back on so I'll I'll introduce Wes too but yeah what I was just uh saying real quick Billy too is iio a a shared belief I think too with with you with God is I also believe I don't believe I know God is within me too it's just and I don't Believe that it's like you have to do 20 circles in the sand and like do a ritual to that that was through like my connection with

Jesus where I know throughout my life that's that's been my when things are are tough it's like the strength of God is literally within me right as so like where we do agree on where like a lot of the heresies and stuff through over religious practices would be like no you have to come through the head of this Church to be blah blah blah you know um and personally and and we're about to get W on so we can have two two really smart people in this talking about it but I'm just breaking it down

to my level of my understanding that's been what really drew me in is kind of when Jesus came and flipped all that on its head and was like no we're not what was it like the the Pharisees like what were the hyp he's like we're not having to go through All the rules he's like they're actually worse than this thief right here and really looked at what was in people's hearts you know right and I I think that's a beautiful thing I I know it has been for my life but I'm about so Wes now

that we got you on Wesley Huff historian linguist biblical scholar PhD and athlete WABE I like how you threw that in the bio right there um and Wesley my my man I think it would be great To I know you guys were both recently in Egypt I there's tons we that I'm interested in that how all these things show up in Egypt is baffling to me but just going right to what I had here Billy you talk about how Jesus was never crucified which is interesting because my wife who's a Muslim they believe that as

well their beliefs from what I understand from her are they don't think that Jesus as they Believe is a prophet God would have him killed but I don't think they have any historical evidence as far as I know as to what or how or why they believe that I'm curious for you guys both and and if if you want to I guess go first Billy as to how you came about like the findings where it seems that Jesus was not crucified that that's not accurate sure and in my videos and if you listen to the

podcast the statement is according to the Sinai Bible okay according to the Sinai Bible uh Jesus wasn't crucified in that Bible that Bible is predates the King James version of the Bible and uh the the text there actually is about 12 to 14,000 differences between the Sinai Bible and the King James version of the Bible which came much later uh you know and then also one of the things that were interesting is that they discovered the the book of Jesus's wife which is at the Harvard Seminary um which uh According to some Scholars that's a

Little controversial but they claim that this is an accurate record that Jesus may have even been married which then you know adds more if that's true uh it adds more to you know the the hypothesis that maybe he wasn't crucified um I just personally believe that Jesus was an amazing human being I don't think that he was the son of God in the sense that he's God uh but that we're all gods as he said ye are gods and that we're to do greater things than Him and I just personally believe that the the return

of the Christ is the return of the Christ Consciousness when we can all achieve a certain level of knowledge wisdom passion understanding empathy love that he came to this planet with and we get that in our mind and our conscious and we can act on that that act that those those incredible tions and that understanding that the whole world is going to transform instantaneously and I think at the Second coming is the coming of the Christ Consciousness to the planet uh Not a Human Being flying back to Earth to save people that's just my personal

understanding of of how I've perceived it over many many years of going through this information and going through all this text and uh West I'm I'm going to let you respond to that and again I mean this is everyone listening to the show you know I'm always like challenge everything H Learn to critically think and continue to come to your conclusions e even with with Jesus I'm not personally even waiting on that he has to come back to I already know I'm like I said that strength of God and Consciousness is already I can tap

into that right now so you don't have to wait for him to come back for those that believe he does to actually have that like next level of of what that's supposed to mean but um Wes go ahead on for what Billy was talking About I think with a book in the Harvard Museum and I heard something about Jesus's wife that's yeah yeah well first let me say I I think it's really cool to uh not just be in the room proverbially with you Billy uh but um be able to interact with you uh cuz

I wish I could there in person unfortunately Toronto Canada is a long way away from Florida it's a little bit of a a jaunt but um I really appreciate the fact that uh you have seem to have Investigated to a certain degree some of these facts do you mind if I ask a clarifying question sure when you say the Sinai Bible um I'm do you what are you referring to specifically it's the biblical text that was written it made it into you can actually look it up on Amazon it's a Bible called I have a

a version at home it's called the Sinai Bible right from Mount Si I I'm assuming that's the mountain that they're referencing there But uh they put together their own version of the biblical biblical text uh prior to the King James version being uh put out sure so when you refer to the Sinai Bible would you be referring to codc cicus like the Codex that comes okay um that's why I was trying to get some clarification because so you can actually go and see uh codc caticus is is at the British Library so you can go

and see it um it's on display and the British library has actually digitized the entire manuscript so I work with manuscripts in my in my um linguistic work I'm an expert on early Christian scribal culture and particularly in Greek and Coptic manuscripts um I actually have I have a fa simile so I have a photocopy that was done by the British library of CC sign Atticus that I work with in my office um so I have it here and the only reason I I ask for Clarification is because I want to make sure that what

I'm addressing is actually what you mean got um and not addressing something else because the codec sin sinicus in particular is just a Greek it's a fourth Century Greek manuscript it comes from approximately between 325 and 350 ad and its text of the gospels reads almost identical to the modern Greek text that we develop translations from so my curiosity is just simply in kind of exploring when You say that it denies the crucifixion or that the crucifixion isn't there I mean I can go on right now codak sinicus and I can look up the end

of you know say um Matthew 27 where it has Jesus being crucified and that's in codc sinicus or you know the John 19 um or any of the other ones so I think my my confusion is that it it doesn't read any differently so actually are you able to pull up a website would the like Viewers or listeners or whatever be able to see that the right the version that I'm looking at while he's pulling that up too like I keep saying to all the people that aren't scientists traveling the world in linguistic I don't

even know how to pronounce it the right way like me linguists what Cy I keep thinking of cyan like the PO cyani Bible so is that like a version so from my own knowledge That I know like when I really studied all this what I thought was interesting about the Bible was how many like different eyewitness I studied CS Lewis back in the day how many different eyewitnesses and stuff there were and they went on purpose to mention so many other names that they were able to like cross reference throughout history and throughout those times

from my understanding and those were different things that I always thought were kind Of interesting that that I felt was a good concept of proof um and then I want Billy to answer and and also I'm just curious like the Sinai Bible is that that was that where was that piece I found the text where I was referencing actually I was misqu I misquoted there it's the Gospel of Barnabas okay yeah well so that's that's good um so uh let's deal with that too because uh I've actually worked with there are two manuscripts of the

Gospel Of Barnabas um The Gospel of Barnabas is a really interesting document because it is a known forgery and so that's why I think it's important to get to these sources so at the very start of the Gospel of Barnabas would we only have two copies of one is in Italian and one is in Spanish um we see right off the bat that the Gospel of Barnabas not to be confused with either the Epistle of Barnabas or the acts of Barnabas which are two apocryphal documents from the Second century but the Gospel of Barnabas in

particular uh we know it's a forgery because it does things like um it in chapter 92 it uh it says that Jesus spent 40 days on Mount Si and then he came to the Jordan River and he walked to Jerusalem but Mount Si is more than a week's Journey away from Jerusalem and neither Mount Si nor Jerusalem are close to the Jordan River so never mind there not being a route from the Jordan River to like around Mount Si or going to Jerusalem um but there are internal problems with the Gospel of Barnabas which indicate

that it it shows no actual indication of evidence of coming from even having knowledge of first century Jewish understanding it actually says Jesus is the Christ but not the Messiah which indicates that whoever the author is he didn't know that those were the same words and I think a bigger problem is that the Gospel of Barnabas actually Paraphrases Dante's Inferno which was written in 1314 so there's a lot of internal evidences that disqualify the Gospel of Barnabas never mind the fact that we don't have any evidence of it prior to the 14th century and none

in any other language other than um middle-age Italian and or sorry yeah Italian and Spanish but the internal content of the Gospel of Barnabas disqualifies it from being ancient and then the fact that It's doing things like paraphrasing Dante or it also refers to a rule of the time of Jubilee which was changed in the Middle Ages from what it was in the biblical Year of Jubilee and it goes with the Middle Ages concept not the ancient concept so I think what I'm getting at is so I'm a historian and I deal with sources so

when I'm looking at sources I want to make sure that I have a methodology by which I approach any type of source so If there is something that denies the cursif fiction I want to make sure that I'm analyzing it and that the methodology by which I analyze it actually reveals that the content can be accurately tied to the event so if we're talking about say codc catticus that's the 4th Century now that is I would agree with you Billy our oldest copy of the Bible in the sense of uh cover to cover Genesis to

Revelation copy of the Bible right the problem is that we have Individual copies of all four gospels going back hundreds of years before codc sinicus so um I have a faim behind me of of p66 this is a late 2 Century copy of the Gospel of John um I I work with this particular manuscript um I can just show the the screen right here this is a an almost complete copy of the Gospel of John um and it has the crucifixion any chance yeah so Papyrus is just the the what it's made out of um

so I got that from uh CH GPT by the Way sorry guys I'm just for a second I have that oh yeah so I'll show you this so I make so the documents you actually see on my bookshelf behind me are fact aimile papy that I've made um so when I was in Egypt last summer I went and I um got made for me some papy sheets and so I take these Papyrus sheets which are made from the Papyrus PL and then when I go and I uh look at actual manuscript so I was at

the University of Philadelphia um last summer and I went and I saw a Document called P1 which is a third Century fragment of the beginning of the Gospel of Matthew and so what I did is I sat down with that original and I produced a faximile so I copied I copied the T first of all I I I cut it out with an X-Acto Knife um in uh not the original third Century one on my Papyrus I cut out with an X-Acto Knife this guy and then I copied the text transcriptionally on the front and

the back so Papyrus is just simply it's what It's made out of yeah um and so there's categorizing systems and the the standard one is called the Gregory aland categorizing system and so sometimes you'll see when manuscripts are mentioned they'll have a ga and then a number behind it if it's made of Papyrus you simply abbreviate the word Papyrus to p and then you have the numbering system so so p66 what I showed you earlier uh that's this on the categorizing system it's the 66th Manuscript that was put into the system uh it's from the

Gospel of John I also have you know p46 and p47 on my shelf uh which includes all four gospels in Acts from the 2 and third centuries so the the only the only hesitation I have with what you said um Billy is that we have single copies of the gospels uh that can be dated to the second century that all do have the crucifixion and so if we're relying on something like the Gospel of Barnabas which is not just like it's not that there's about it it's a it's a known forgery I mean no one's

referring to the Gospel of Barnabas as anything other than if you say it's a known forgery yes but I'm going to go with that let's talk about the Old Testament a little bit and leading up into the new well hold on because do you mind if I address the gospel of Jesus's wife sure go ahead what what was her name yeah I'm I'm like Trying to write notes like I know what I'm doing but I'm just curious so the gospel of Jesus's wife doesn't actually mention so often times what happens is that the text of

the Gospel of Jesus's wife is kind of paralleled with the Gospel of Philip which mentions that Mary Magdalene that Jesus would kiss Mary Magdalene on the mouth and so those are kind of used in uh in parallel to kind of for this argument for uh this argument that Jesus Was married so the gospel of Jesus's wife is in the Harvard Library however the reason we know it's also not legitimate is because even though the manuscript the Papyrus that it's on was carbon dated to the 4th century the text was actually copied from a pdf version

of the Gospel of Thomas known as grandin's Interlinear and there was a mistake in the Coptic text of grandin's Interlinear that was copied into the gospel of Jesus's wife So we know that this is not a legitimate document even though the Papyrus is ancient and this happens a lot with forgeries um I have a a couple of friends who have actually worked on Project that have revealed forgeries within uh Dey scroll manuscripts and uh within um other ancient Christian papy but the reason why we know the gospel of Jesus's wife and that Karen King who

kind of vouched for it and kind of she lost a lot of credibility unfortunately For her uh and she's admitted that it's a fake um as well was because we can tie it directly to not copying from an ancient text but actually copying from an online version of the Gospel of th in a PDF form and the mistake on that PDF form was copied into the the text of that was borrowed in the phrasy Jesus's wife so I I just point that out is once again with our sourcing I think we need to make sure

that we're going towards not just early sources but Actually credible sources and unfortunately neither the Gospel of Barnabas nor the gospel of Jesus's wife are credible sources in terms of actually and and agreed upon by not just the vast majority of scholarship but I don't know anybody in the field of papery paleography historiography who actually refers to these documents as being legitimate that's fair enough that's I can respect that so let's go into the Old Testament a little bit um Predominantly from my research uh I discovered that a lot of information from the enum elition

and Seven Tablets of Creation is uh a lot of the in Genesis a lot of the cre ation story that comes into Genesis not all of it but the because obviously it's a smaller Genesis is a much smaller version of a much bigger story but uh it's literally uh almost word for word from the enum Elish and the Seven TS of Creation The Epic of atrasis as well is Also there in in the Old Testament um several other taets tablets as well cot upon marabi and a few others have made it into that text Samaran

cylinder scroll that uh talk about the creation story again uh the creation story in the in the Epic ofra and so we tend to see this uh this copying of ancient Tabet text and scriptures even some papyruses into uh the biblical text uh Meaning that my my point here is that I think a lot of people are saying that uh this information was written in real time a lot of people believe that if you ask the average person person they really believe that but a lot of this information is just copied from older tablets and

texts from uh an earlier date uh that's what I found that uh it's made it into the canonized Bible but they never referenced that they got it from any other ancient text and tavits That have to do with a total a totally different civilization with total totally different religious beliefs um have you read the uh the anumal yeah I've done lect you mind sure do you mind summarizing the the content of the creation account in the numaish for us sure the num leish is a is a very ancient text discovered in the library of Arana

Paul and the summary of it is that um it really gives us an account which is crazy an astronomical account Of the creation of our solar system it talks about planets and moons gaining specific orbits around the Sun it talks about a huge planet named Tiamat 46 times larger than Earth uh Earth didn't exist at the time that this uh according to the author of this text which is pretty interesting and then there talks about a nemesis uh uh of some of sorts in in the original version It's called Nibiru but in a more recent

version still thousands of years old the name Was changed to Marduk Marduk is in a Jewish American library in the biblical text in the Torah and so forth very popular figure in ancient times in the religious uh books and text U Marduk wanted to be the the Destroyer so Marduk is the one that during its next orbit towards Tiamat crashed into Tiamat destroyed Tiamat a huge chunk of it swung away Rec coalesced taking the the water land and organic material which basically recoil us as our planet here Earth and the rest of it broke up

into pieces some of it turned into the asteroid belt excuse me other parts of it were thrown towards the Sun and some were th thrown towards the inner or Cloud towards the outer edge of the solar system um this uh this planet or this moonlet uh that orbited proposedly a brown dwarf basing on the description of it uh gained a very strange orbit around our sun uh uh very and we have the scientific evidence now also to Match with NASA's data where we see that Saturn and U I believe Neptune switch places uh Uranus is

flipped on its side and that's more evidence that something came through our solar system in ancient times and gravitationally really tugged that planets here and switched up their orbits and even pulled uh the axis of a planet on its own side where the equator is now running North and South so a little bit of modern astrophysics kind of backs up what this ancient text is Saying um but the enish also then begins to talk about uh the fact that uh these beings it kind of cuts into the fact that these beings uh you know are

on earth and uh at some point begin to engage Mankind in other words they didn't create people from scratch but they engaged the existing homonid and began to um uh began to utilize us as workers for their Workforce in the atrais Epic you see a much similar story um slightly later date period but still Thousands of years old the Epic of atrais and we see the a very similar story and we see where the sons of God uh literally came down to earth They Came From Mars according to this text if you read the translation

of the planet Mars and uh to English and then they went to battle they were going to go to battle in South Africa against ank and Lin a new and uh and they they come to terms without going to battle they argued that They needed women human women uh believe it or not and they also wanted a Workforce they didn't want to continue to do the labor they were cleaning out the Tigers and Euphrates rivers digging canals building cities on Earth and according to the text on Mars not according to me and uh a a

decision was made by enki and Anu and and Anil to uh allow this experiment to happen where they would take the existing homonid uh here They would slay one of the Gods meaning that they would in my opinion that doesn't mean they're going to kill it but somehow somehow some type of genetic modification or manipulation in my personal opinion it's my personal hypothesis um but in the end it ends up being that human beings are now uh doing a lot of this labor and wor shiing these people as Gods as they my personal opinion masquerad

as Gods a lot of stories there parallel Stories that you see in the Bible even the Tower of baby incident and many other crazy stories that are in the Bible you can find a lot of those true stories in the ancient text like the Epic of Gilgamesh where you can find the true story of Noah they found the Noah tablet to giv him instruction on how to build the ark it wasn't a big boat it was a a round disc that he built with the cut there sections cut up on the inside like a pie

uh that was discovered About four or five years ago I believe it's at the British museum now uh so there's a lot of text that's just been covered and copied over into the biblical text and I think that uh in my personal opinion A lot of people are just uh became a cargo cult worshiping yeah people that were masquerading as Gods I I do believe in God by the way let me make this clear I believe in God I believe there's a I believe in that there's a creator of the universe I Believe that uh

the mathematics the quantum physics all proves that the fact that we're here I believe there's a this universe is imbued with a Divine energy and a Divine spark that lives inside of all of us I just don't believe that the god of the Bible is truly the creator of the universe I don't think that God needs money I don't think that God needs sure do you mind if I just jump in here for a second because I I think I we we've kind of Gone Gone on from the Original question I appreciate that um I

do have a few issues with your summary although I think um I have I have read the Acadian version my aadan is not great but I I sat down with an a serologist friend and we wed through it um a couple years ago uh so I I think that there are components of what you said that I would say are in there I'm not sure it's the best summary nonetheless okay going with what you said you said that there were like Verbatim parallels with the biblical creation story even just going off with what you said

which I think there are components of that I would agree with you know the Battle of the Gods um you know the the concept of enki and the younger God and they fight teat and um then Marduk who swears he'll defeat tat and quenu who kills tat by shooting her with an arrow and there's this big battle and then the gods that die end up being the earth and the sky and even us Um because we are the end result of that battle I'm just curious when you say that there are not just parallels but

there's actual copying looking at Genesis chapter 1 and two where the Christian story is summarized in the Bible what are are the actual kind of parallels there that you're you're looking to because as someone who's read both I I not only do I not find parallels I actually and this is the majority of ancient near scholarship With me um think that Genesis chapter 1 is actually an apologetic against uh documents like the enuma leash so what are the parallels there separated the waters from the waters for example that's in theum Elish and that's also in

the biblical text okay that's that I would agree um is a parallel um the only reason I I highlight that is that if you're going if you're making this the argument because if you brought it up and I mean This with all du respect there the there are superficial parallels I would agree you know the separation of the water um the concept of the Earth being formless and void that's also in theuma leash however I think all the other details you know it isn't the it isn't the it's the details that make the difference and

the if we're looking at not The Superficial crossovers but the actual themes and concepts of what it's Saying you don't have a creation within seven days not going to take the new and put it into the biblical text there are certain words that they utilize that let me know that they copied it from that text like for example so what words separating the water from the waters the the void the Earth being void that's that information is literally just copied over so it tells you that somebody saw that and said let me add it to

this book right here let me add the Scripture of this Papyrus because it wasn't a book yet at that time so was this text discovered that that makes it parallel to Genesis and was this like supposedly discovered prior to I'm just curious it wasn't discovered prior to the Bible but it dates back long before the Bible was ever written yeah so let me just let me just say this so um the reason why I say It's actually an apologetic against that is because the purpose of the unuma Alish which the Babylonians read every Babylonian new

year was to point out the fact that a the deities and there's countless deities in the Babylonian um Pantheon they actually come from the created order so they're not outside of time and space they actually come from the created order and when they die in this battle right when teamot is defeated the defeated God become the earth and the sky and the the plants and even you and me and in that Sense the theme is that you don't actually have any purpose or end result and you you're not created in the image of God in

fact in the ancient Babylonian system only the kings were created in the image of God and what we see that is counter to that is that even sure they're superficial you know divided the waters but we find that in almost every you society and culture that's not that's not a parallel as much as just a generality I would say what we see Within the biblical account is that God purposefully creates there's only one God he purposefully creates and then he creates and it's good and it continues to say it's good seven times and then at

the end of chapter one just for you know the thick people in the original audience it says and then it was very good and then he creates Humanity not Kings but simply the humans that he creates in God's image and they have purpose and meaning and that instills Them with this creation order and that's not what we find in the enal in fact we find the opposite in the enal is that they the created order is not good it's a mistake and that you are not created in the image of God and there's a reminder

that regular people are not created in the image of God so linguistically I mean Hebrew does have semetic ties with Acadian it doesn't with um Sumerian sumarian is a language isolate um a glutening language but I Would say just with all fact the the parallels linguistically are not there there might be superficial kind of Concepts that are there but they're so superficial that we can find them in everything in the sense of I'm in this I'm in my office Studio you're in your office Studio that doesn't mean that you know that we're the same people

or were even in the same place does that make sense yeah but I don't I don't agree with that I just see uh if I have all These texts out there's a lot of different information that you can see there a lot of it's been copy word for word into the biblical text um in the but what's the word for word in your version of what you believe in you keep saying that he God's a he Y and so where where do you get that from um well throughout both the Hebrew Old Testament and the

Greek New Testament you have the um masculine Singular masculine singular pronoun used for God and why does why is God a man where's the evidence of this well well God isn't a man see within historical Christianity we don't believe that God has a gender however the way that he has decided to reveal himself is through the masculine plural and then ultimately by becoming a human in the person of Jesus Christ so we don't believe that God has a gender in fact the fact that God creates Humanity in His image and he Creates them male and

female those are two aspects of the image of God and so that's the complete so historical Christianity has never argued that God is gendered Jesus is gendered in the sense that during the Incarnation he becomes a human man but he's still fully man and fully God but God is spirit and right as the scripture says we worship Him in spirit and in truth but nobody's arguing that what's that sorry God that always blows my mind God is the same all the time right he's always he's always good it's always God is all the same all

the time right yeah but we do see that the in scripture God has revealed himself through um the masculine plural and there are aspects of God's character that we see within scripture that do actually communicate you know Jesus says that he longs to gather Israel like a mother hen collects her chicks so we see aspects of you know the the feminine of God not meaning that God is feminine but that the image of God reflects both the masculine and The Feminine and that's why when you know the Two Become One flesh there's a uniting of

that that reflects the the image of God as well within the Covenant of marriage do you actually believe that the majority of Christians really believe that God is Not masculine that God is has both aspects I mean it's irrelevant what the majority of Christians believe how many Would how many tell you you know that God's not a man they don't they' never been taught this well I I was taught it growing up I was taught it in in when I was a child when I went to Seminary when I went to Bible College I was

taught at in graduate school um I would say here's here's I would say a few things to that I would say in one sense it's irrelevant what the majority of Christians believe because what historical biblical Christianity articulates is what they should believe you know there are Christians who run around saying all sorts of things that are not in Conformity to biblical historical Orthodox Christianity and in they shouldn't believe that because it's irrelevant and so if one Christian beli something that is not in line with Biblical Christianity I mean that's on them um so God is

Not gendered uh but the he does Express through inspired Scripture the masculine plural sorry not plural the masculine uh um pronoun that's pretty convenient I mean for an all knowing all all loving God to understand that human beings were going to take that and abuse it to put their boot on the neck of women for eons it's pretty interesting also I'm trying to understand yeah I mean so hold on let let me speak to that because it is interesting guys I to yeah sure um if it was only for the Old Testament I would have

a hard time following a lot of stuff it for me like you said putting the boots on women and stuff that it was when Jesus came that when they were literally like oh if a woman you can just accuse a female of having an affair and murderer and that's like okay that he was the like he just reminds me of anyone that cha basically challenged everything and people would say that it didn't contradict what's in the Old Testament But however people were interpreting it they were believing that they were following the Bible to women can't

do this you Stone them if if they have an affair or if they're accused of having an affair and Jesus you know as we know the famous scene when they were about to Stone her he's like he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone B basically saying no one no one's perfect and was the first one that I know of that started like speaking to other tribes and Other countries that people weren't supposed to like they they were so racist and Prejudice and and he this is this is where my heart opened up is like

he stood for this love and this God that that broke down all these barriers and just flipped what all the scholars and everything was saying on its head and and that's where I found that I beli that he was crucified because he went so far like Against the Grain at the time and it I get what you're saying too like there's stuff where it's like oh that's convenient you know where human beings can add in that this is there and that's not but something else that I always was curious I'm like you know if especially

the New Testament if it was like written by man and stuff and pre-planned I'm like I think they would have done a better job of not making a lot of the people So um like ignorant the people that were like literally with Jesus question him half the time like bro I don't know if you can do this miracle and Jesus is like dude you just saw me yesterday turn water into wine and I'm like if if they really it was if I was writing a story I'm like I want everyone to believe this I would

make the people not like as questionable it's like they have so many characteristics Where the humanity in it is what like like always drew me and like even one thing in the Old Testament that David and Goliath kills Goliath a man after God's Own Heart I'm like if if if you're pre-writing this to be the perfect person after God's Own Heart then he becomes king you're G to like have the story end perfectly but then he goes off to see he's watching this lady bathe nude has an affair with her has her husband Killed mhm

it's like but then goes on to CH to to keep praying to God and coming back to God like with a humanity and God's like this is a man after my own heart and it's like finding all these human flaws is to me showed so much of like the beautiful struggle that and I'm not going off everything you guys are talking about which is factual stuff I'm just talking from my own experience of ways where I drew and Continue to draw my own conclusions and I'm much more about my relationship with God personally with Jesus

and in God it's the same over worshiping the religion because so many people can there we all know there that's Wars are created slaves are T there there's so many horrible things that have been done in the name of religion and it's sad and that's where Jesus comes back into the game to me I'm talking you guys to me to where he was like the one that was like Gathering all these people of all these like what are you doing like we we're supposed to be here helping each other this is about loving each other

and coming together like you're killing them because they eat meat on Tuesday and they don't eat bacon on Sunday and you're literally like murdering each other it it's it's so messed up So I get where people look at different organized religion and stuff and they're like this is horri like on behalf of Christians I'm like I I'm fully a apologetic for what was it the the Crusades it's like in the name of Catholicism they there's so many horrible things that human beings have done just and I'm speak speaking as someone that that I would call

myself a Christian and I'm just letting everyone Know that I'm I'm I'm open critical thinker and how I've continued to find my own beliefs because I never sat here ignorantly and was like nope throughout history they've all been perfect it's like through the Crusades they went through and committed genocide rape pill the some of the most awful stuff wearing in these huge crosses and I'm like but that but God wasn't with them they they said he was was but that's why I also believe in the devil and I don't believe He's this dude with a

pitchfork and a red tail I think it's more comes you know in energy and thoughts and comes and people and is like oh talk to this guy who's rising in power you know you should you should start conquering that other country in the name of and and do it in the name of God and then you know that's that's the way I look at things so anyway go ahead I had to just throw in yeah I mean there's a there's a really great resource uh written by a Friend of mine John Dixon it's a book

called bullies and Saints where he goes through a lot of the instances of we're obviously going to find abuses and um every human being is going to find a way to exploit whatever is presented to them so in one sense I think we can say you know isn't it convenient that God used the masculine plural pronoun or sorry the masculine pronoun I keep saying plural just a mistake the masculine pronoun and We can say oh sure that's convenient Maybe but it is how he has he has revealed himself to us and it's not his fault

if we abuse that I mean we could say so I actually I grew up in the Middle East uh my parents worked in Aman Jordan and when I was living in the Middle East there was a country called the Democratic public of Iraq now just because democracy exists and people are going to name things uh Democratic when they obviously aren't doesn't mean we Then judge democracy I mean think of the Democratic Republic of North Korea right nobody thinks that that's an actual representation of um democracy so people are always going to abuse terms and ideas

and Concepts the difference is though I think historically within judeo-christianity you have this ethic that we were talking about before that I think is fundamentally different than what we find in things like the anumal The atrais and other things in that we are created in the image of God and actually one of the earliest criticisms of Christianity are by individuals like celsus who is a GRE Roman philosopher in the second century where he accused Christianity of being foolish dishonorable and stupid and he called it the religion of slaves women and children why not because God

used the um masculine pronoun for himself and people were abusing that because the concept That Christians believed in of everybody no matter what your gender your race your social standing you know Paul says in Christ there is no slave nor free there is no Jew nor Gentile there is no um skon or Barbarian there's no male nor female you know these things United people and uh we can see there's a historian named Rodney Stark and in his uh book the rise of Christianity he actually says that you can track empirically the agency of women across

The ancient world by the movement of Christianity so that in other words whenever an area became populated by Christians we see a direct correlation with the Privileges and treatments of women that expand in time when the surrounding culture largely didn't view women as being fully human so I think we're always going to have abuses but if there's one worldview that exists that gives agency to people and says that everybody has worth by nature of being Hum just human it's the Christian worldview and that's where I think it's it's very different so we can argue about

why we think God should or shouldn't have revealed himself in his pronouns but I think that's actually irrespective of the historical reality that we see within the impact of of Christian particularly on the west but around the world and how it gives agency to the marginalized West can I ask you so when You so I'm always interested this like you you were raised Christian I always think about this like my my wife who's Muslim and our our beliefs at the core are are so similar but there's some differences and I I wonder like if I

was born in serly on West Africa where she was I know in the Bible says Christ revealed but CS Lewis is someone that I really respect cuz I'm I'm always I'm an entrepreneur I'mma think outside the box Always and we should be no one should just be like sheep and follow what any of us are saying like do your research on your own with everything of course um but what led you uh like so sorry going back to CS Lewis real quick he he was a famous scholar who was once a atheist set out on

a journey to basically disprove the Bible as he went to do that he himself found out that it to be like one of the most historically accurate written books Which really shocked him he then became a Christian after that he's he's done the Narnia movies Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe or they books they weren't movies when he passed away but he has an amazing I I love people like him because he doesn't just back like he always was questioning everything he's like why why is there this going why are these little kids dying God

when there um but but something that he continued to come up with which reminded me so much of Jesus And the love conquers all things too is when so many people overly get caught up on religion over the relationship and he's like I've actually met some atheists that are closer to God without even knowing it and I've met some Christians that are further away from God without even knowing it and I I believe that too so much and I'm just really curious like as you went on your journey as being like a historian studying biblical

text and Then being raised you know of the church did you take it I don't want to put what because I did you take it upon like whatever I continue to discover I'm going to have to accept like say something you did find when you were in Egypt revealed differently than what you were taught you know like did you kind of tell yourself I'm going on a quest like searching for truth without like a set conclusion to prove Christianity knowing that it could that it could go Either way am I making sense yeah I mean

I I grew up in an a bit of an unusual household in that uh my mom grew up in India and my parents I was younger I was born in Pakistan and I spent a portion of my childhood in Jordan I grew up in majority Muslim countries and surrounded by majority Muslim environments and we had uh you know a copy of the Quran um in the room in fact we had the babad Gita and the Book of Mormon uh and you know for a Little while other documents um in in our house these were things

that my parents although they never verbally said these are these Christianity is true therefore these are not forbidden these are not verboom you know the truth capital T truth of the reality of the world we behold can stand up against scrutiny and investigation and I I did do a great deal of that as a kid um my dad is a historian as well um he has a doctorate and um I grew up on him you Know reading the rise and fall of the Roman Empire um so uh but at the exact same time the reason

why I actually went to University with full intention of going into the police force um but it was interactions with Muslims and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and atheists and accusations Against The credibility of the Bible which actually piqu my interest because they would say things that I said that I thought you know if that's true of course that Undermines what I believe I believe that Jesus is God incarnate if I can't trust the gospels as reliable first century eyewitness testimony then I might as well throw all of this away because I'm not going to believe

a lie even if it's a convenient lie and so it was actually the exploration of eventually going into graduate college and then now in working on my PhD the largest secular University in Canada that got me thinking okay how do we investigate these things what are The methodologies by which we go about to explore the origins and credibility of something like the Bible and that investigation with all the respect to Billy and the content you put out has actually confirmed what I believe you know I'm dealing with the actual manuscripts I travel to academic institutions

to other countries and I look at these things and I read them and it's a privilege to be able to learn languages like Greek and Coptic and Hebrew and Aramaic and dig into these things and I think ultimately I I really appreciate what you said there mark with your articulation of your personal relationship and I think that's so important but I think it's also important to remember that that relationship is based on something that's real and verifiable and we can look into the evidence you know I have friends who are I have friends who are

linguists Philologists and historians and when we look into these things and we we talk with one another and we're discussing we're constantly trying to falsify our theories because that's what good history does we're looking for the falsification you don't go in ideally if you want to be a good historian right with trying to prove your your original thesis you go in and say okay what are the avenues that actually could disprove this and then how do we engage with Those in an appropriate and articulate manner so um uh what I believe I believe is true

but I believe it based on the evidence of the actual documentation you know I've read um the a lot of the literature that you're talking about Billy uh the theal theis the bav Gita um the uh the um Epic of Gilgamesh and I've read some of them in their original languages because I've tried to be a good historian and go back into the primary sources or if I can't engage With people like my friends who are serologists um who are philologists and try to not just go off of a translation but the original and I

think I found largely the opposite of the conclusions that you have made Billy and and I know that you are very passionate about what you talk about and I respect that um I just think that the confidence might not actually be backed up by the reality of the evidence so when we're looking at something like the the Sinai Bible when We're looking at something like the Gospel of Barnabas when we're looking at something like the gospel of Jesus's wife uh these are things that actually have provenance that we can verify and ultimately I think the

answers to the questions of the legitimacy or the illegitimacy of those things point to not just a different conclusion but actually the opposite conclusion and that Christianity is true well now I'm glad you said that So those three topics are a very small piece of my concept and idea of what really happened in the ancient past so that's a very small fraction and that's a it's less than one tenth of a percent and you talk about eyewitness accounts convinced you that Christianity is real there's been eyewitness accounts of every culture that I've visited around this

entire planet and their eyewitness accounts of what they experienced is 100,000% opposite of what's in the Bible People have uh based what do you mean can you give me an example the Doan tribe for example in Mali Africa they experienced a culture that they claim came to this planet from Sirius B they have the evidence that they knew these beings were from Sirius B because they have the instruments that show the orbit of a trary star system that we couldn't discover till the 1970s with our modern technology okay they uh understood not only the orbital

pattern of of serious a B and c but even that b was a failed star which you can't see it from Earth with the naked eye they knew that it was a white dwarf they even knew that if that they said that if you took a tablespoon of it the entire tribe or a thousand men couldn't lift the tablespoon they understood mass and gravity as well they were told the shape the sizes and the colors of all the planets in our solar system which they recorded and there's only one wisdom Keeper and that person can

never be touched by a person if they get touched by another person they'd actually be killed and then they eventually have a mentee that they break down that verbal handed down knowledge to and that next person then takes over becomes the wisdom keeper and they been doing this for thousands and thousands of years and science modern science has found all their information to be 1,000% accurate then you have the Hy tribe of the Americas indigenous tribes Hy tribe Lakota tribe also having uh engagements with these quote unquote Star Brothers um even having an account of

them being taken under ground which you don't see just only in America I just came back from Turkey you have the uh the people from Turkey in Mesopotamia also being taken under ground into a place called Darren kuyu by these beings by these people a structure that's built 12 stories deep underground that's made out Of volcanic tough a very soft Stone and if you don't know what you're doing it'll actually collapse there's no evidence of any collapse and it was thousands of years old it was reused many times so the mainstream story about what it

was used for to hide from Romans is actually false this place is ancient and in order to build it you actually have to have four knowledge of how to construct this type of underground civilization that can hold 20 to 30,000 People spaces for livestock places for worship with no sign of collapse and you have to have hundreds of ventilation shafts and I've been down there those ventilation shafts cut through solid rock all the way down to the core and there's even more it links to other underground cities that are miles and miles away as you

get to the very base of this area you can cut through and go to another location uh but again these people were taken under also then you Have the ancient Egyptians similar story major catastrophy comes these people come and take them underground then you have the the information in the Egyptian Book of going forth by day more accounts uh by people our ancestors that have accounts that do not match up with the biblical text and so all of a sudden we're saying that all these cultures the Aboriginal people I can go into them as well

I've sat I've gone to walk about you mind Outback in the outback these Aage and Elders same thing they were seated here by pleadians this is their verbal handed out history for thousands of years and I can go around the world and I can come up with all this information from all these eyewitness accounts from people that should be respected dignified and shouldn't be scoffed and that we're now saying that all this information that they put forward all their verbal hand on History all their written history that's got to Go to the side because because

this one text is 1,00% accurate sure but so my question is um most of that is oral history correct oh it's all oral history even the Bible okay so so when we're engaging with oral history what methodologies are you using to confirm that the orality is accurate oh man well first and foremost some of these texts are some of these cultures have written down U information in caves you've got cave paintings the the Doon Tribe actually have not only written down sure no I don't I don't disagree with that the question is one of historic

sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you there the question is one of methodological analysis so you have to have a method by which you can find either that something is falsifiable or that there are Avenues by which you can show internal and external accuracy of credibility so this is what we do with documents this is what we do with the Ancient gospels this is what I do I've worked on xenophon and plutar and we look at the internal evidences and the external multivalent corroboration to try to figure out okay yes we have all these stories

great I don't deny that but as a historian as someone who's trying to figure out what is accurate how do you do you know the do if I use the term ver similitude do you know what that term means no but I could tell you this tell me how the Doon tribe saw Series B knew the orbit of serus b a trary star system accurately and can show you the orbit with a special tool that they made that was given to them by these people uh how do they know the shapes the sizes the colors

and orbital pattern of all these planets in our solar system and other star alignments that they would used to have something called the Ziggy and pl and and their own harvesting and planting and so forth and so on that's not enough evidence That there's something well I'm not a yeah I'm I'm not aware of that particular case and even I mean I would grant that you know the ancient people are far more technological advanced than we give themselves credit for just because they're ancient doesn't mean they're stupid I am well aware as someone who has

done uh both investigation in the past and um done archaeological analysis that is a reality my question is simply okay you Have these stories or you have these accounts you're referring to them as eyewitness testimony how are you going about verifying that as that well if the people had eyewitness testimony about Jesus they then just wrote down in their eyewitness testimony on a piece of paper or or parchment paper or Papyrus so these people right so that's where internal methodological analysis is actually written down so I mean it's the same exact thing there There's really

no difference well no so you do internal investigations to figure out when something was dated so um something like uh there's so when I used that term ver similitude before that's something we historians are looking for it's a term that simply means the appearance or likelihood of truthfulness so when you do historical analysis it's an inference to the best explanation so you have proof and you have data and you're extrapolating that data on levels Of probability so some things can be confirmed as high probabilistically true and other things are lower in their probability that they

happened but there are different methodologies different ways that you explore historically how that happens so for the gospels look at the Doon tribe they scientists went there to visit the tribe and they still have no answers because they use their modern science it took the best Scholars to visit these people and they're still Scratching their heads something happened there sure that and I'm not even denying that necessarily but the question is okay we needs we need different levels of evidence and exploration not just scientifically but historically to derive something as eyewitness testimony now we have

mountains of that and I can I'm more than willing to go into some of that with the gospel as early eyewitness testimony that can be verified Externally and internally but nonetheless the the only reason I ask Billy is because I've I've listen to a fair amount of your content and I'm unaware of the methods that you use to try to discern between what is an accurate Source his historiographically and an unaccurate Source historiographically well I use that make sense I use getting in an airplane and traveling to these places doing my own research talking with

the indigenous Cultures and researching as much of the text that is available that I can possibly find okay so I don't I don't dispute that and and I I do believe you have done that but I mean even from what we've talked about so you've researched the text but when we talked about the crucifixion everything you cited was either and I mean with this with all du respect false in terms of the Sinai Bible because codc caticus is just a Fourth Century Greek manuscript of the gospels that we have today or they were verified forgeries

in terms of the Gospel of Jesus's wife and the gopel you may be right on that particular part of the topic but like I said that's less than a tenth of percent of the information that I hold sure but that was the original question so yeah yeah so that's what I'm saying I'm saying okay well so I'm going off of what we've already talked about so you've said you Explore the text I don't deny that but the evidence by going off of what you have put forward in terms of the actual documentary evidence is not

just less than convincing in in in my respect and I I I mean this with respect because I I think you have done a lot of research you've traveled to these places I have too like this is what I do as my career um but I'm not really getting indication because in History we go to the primary sources in their primary languages and when we talked when Mark asked okay why do you deny the crucifixion the sources you use were not primary okay we're still over and over again there's so much more we can talk

about here we're wasting a lot of time there's there's so much more that's that's this amount do you guys so much more stuff to talk about do you think that um all the these different cultures and Stuff describing these other beings could those have been I'm not an expert theology or what but like where it talks about War I always want to personally ask you this too where in the Bible talks about like Wars between the demons and the angels there there's a lot of crazy stuff in in the Bible too that um it's you

can prove it's been written But it also takes some Faith because you can't physically see where there was Wars between demons and angels and stuff fighting in the heavens so there's tons going on obviously could could any of those have been like from what you've discovered or how people have written it do you think those could have been demons or angels I I don't believe in demons or Angels at all you don't believe in them at all no I don't believe in demons and angels when you Read uh AEL coming down in the book of

now coming down and the first thing he does is teach people how to make knives and swords so they can cut a man's head off uh you read you know you see these quote where's that in the Book of Enoch in The Book of Enoch isil he comes down where where is that in the Book of Enoch is it are so the only reason I ask is because there are two Enochs first Enoch and second Enoch and only first Enoch is an actual historical amalgamation okay And then you uh you analyze the fact that these

angels are um having sex they're getting drunk these are just people whoa whoa whoa whoa where are angels getting drunk Angels party they they they go they hang out with people they go to war with people they put on their outfits and they go to war with people people um this is where are they getting drunk though they get married okay whatever whatever that means but they're but They're having they don't get married okay not Mar in fact the scripture says that Angels can't get married Merry Christmas not M married Mar Mary Mary em r

y but the point that I'm making here is when you start to really analyze what these these uh these angels are doing and you start to analyze how many people are dying in the biblical text you start to you start to say well how many people that Satan actually kill and when you start doing the tally On the numbers God's killing doing most of the killing in the Bible it's not the devil that's doing all the killing then God says in Isaiah I createth the good and I create the evil do what th sayith the

Lord so he's saying that he's doing the good and the evil that's what he's saying yeah my personal opinion on this whole thing I just let me get this out because we keep going over the same rhetoric over and over again my personal opinion is that the biblical text uh is A good book there's a like I've said I've got videos my number one video on on Twitter has me saying this it's a good it's good text because if you actually apply some of the information that's in the Bible you can get a good result

like you have done Mark right I I I struggle with a no I want you to finish your thought go ahead yeah so you because you can get a good result but there's a lot of misinformation in the Bible there's a lot of false information That's copy froment text and if you go by that text all of a sudden you end up with 400 years of slavery you end up with abuse you end up with divide and conquer tactics that separate people you end up with people thinking that they're the chosen ones and they're the

chosen people and we've been promised this promised land so we can eradicate another race of people because this is our land because God promised it to us you have people that want to go on the Papal inquisitions and torture and kill and murder over 80 million people you have uh the American Holocaust 111 million indigenous natives slayed uh you have all this going on because of this text which is set up so contradictory throughout its path across time you get into the New Testament slavery is still being condoned in the New Testament what it honor

thy slave master as you would honor God or Jesus it says I believe so in Ephesians doesn't say that the god of the old test like the I'll let you go real quick but I'm just and I know you have to go to but I'm speaking as I challenge my own sub it was always I'm telling you guys this is where Jesus came in and changed everything for me but like the Old Testament too it is hard for me to read even Noah thinking God's like mad at everyone let's flood the whole world and murder

all these People that I created that's pretty bad stuff but it seems so contradictory to and I'm speaking Wes as a Christian and I don't have the whatever they call papy there there isn't this is where people and but I continue to to follow in my heart but it's so Jesus did not seem like like that at all and and but they say God's the same as then as he was now like time he created time so he didn't come down you know as Jesus and and change and evolve and then come Back with new

information and be like you know what I don't think I'm going to flood and do the these are more I guess like bigger moral questions that there's not necessarily but I that's where things like the Old Testament challenge me at times um and I know there's a lot of things where they correlate and I've seen some cool things that come together too but it's just like man to think like I'm going to flood and murder all these people that I Created and then leave a few alive does seem like what Jesus did at all Sor

interrupt a couple more points I want to make because he got a lot of talking in it did say slaves obey your Earthly masters with respect and fear as you as sincerity of heart as you would obey Christ that's slaves obey your Earthly masters with respect and fear as you with sincerity in your heart as just as you would obey Christ so it does say that Ephesians 65 but but there's There's so many aspects that stuff is and what is the context of what Ephesians is saying so I think this is very important because that

we don't take text in isolation so w within within scripture and this is why all the abolition movements throughout history have only been judeo-christian movements there's never been an abolition movement that wasn't Christian and actually there's a the recent work by historian Tom Holland not the Spider-Man actor Different Tom Holland but um his recent Dominion highlights this fact very well this is not a Christian but in it he shows that going right back into the uh Antiquity with the capian fathers was the first abolition movement and then into you know the British and the American

abolition movements these were fundamentally Christian movements ran by Christians because of the idea that when Paul who wrote that letter to Ephesians says in Christ there is no slave nor Free he's breaking down those barriers so in Ephesians when he says slaves obey our masters he's operating on the socioeconomic context of what he's going on and he's saying hey we have slaves and we have free people okay if you're a believing slave if you're a slave who believes in Jesus as the Messiah don't be don't be uh like um be Equitable in how you are

living your life reflect Christ accurately and that's a that's a Movement that he is fundamentally working towards that eventually starts to completely take out the legs from I I would be I love by the way I love that we're all this is respectful I don't feel this is all just gr talking in health I appreciate I and I think this is going to give us but this is where you you and I sitting down room I would be like great that you came that but like what what were the methodologies did you Use to conclude

that him saying the slave be the master to the slave you're able to interpret it meaning that he's meaning that because I was also raised in the church and I would have question when they're like oh in the old days when they said women don't wear jewelry that's a sin I don't you would know the exact verse and then they're like oh but that that was just written because at that time that was what they did but then the next week They're telling me but if you believe in the Bible you either believe in all

of it or none of it I'm like well how come you're just and they're like but it's okay for women to do that now th those are the things where it's like youve we've got to be honest here like if you're respectfully challenging Billy and I'm Billy's going to go and do reseearch and be like like okay now I want to see how to have cuz we're all critical Thinkers those things seem to just get so blindly pushed over when they're like but that doesn't apply now and it's like I don't right I do I

think there's there's more common ground than than people think and so many words stuff recall but but also like it's weird to me to to think that that he would be like women aren't allowed to wear jewelry and this crap and then Jesus came and he's like none of that matters and then for them to be Like oh that only made sense then but now it doesn't apply but believe everything this is what's referred to you know what like this is why like I'm always like yeah so so there's a field there's a discipline called

hermeneutics and that's the the that's the methodology of interpretation so there are multiple levels that you interpret something so whether we're dealing with say the book of Ephesians or we're dealing with Tacitus annals we look at something and we contextually read it within the framework of how it's being written so there's a historical approach where we look at the context okay Paul is writing to a church in Ephesus what's going on in Ephesus and how is what he's saying in that city in what is modern day Turkey how does that pertain to that particular time

and framework where is Paul coming from where is now though is my question because yeah so here so here Here's how I answer that question love to death Wes but you're starting to give I can sorry I had to interrupt you I'm and I I believe in God like I believe in yeah our and Billy believes in God too I and I I get I get why things are challenged and things need to be challenged but it's saying that was two women then but being raised in the church they say but then they'll pick something

and they're like but that doesn't apply to them now Because in that context he was talking to that certain this certain town where these they were having problems with the I'm like well that's not written anywhere and they're like well if you go to blah blah blah and it's and then they say well God is all knowing so he perfectly chose what was in and out of the Bible I believe whoever created the universe which is God in my own opinion tell is Way smarter than any of us why would he leave something like that

crap in there that women shouldn't wear jewelry and all that and then having the New Testament that crap doesn't really matter like that that's where it's like I I have to believe that it's not a per I do think there is Parts where things got written and in and I don't but I don't think they're the major things per personally like G whether or not Jesus Was crucified which I think is a major thing because if if he wasn't that I've studied that a lot that would challenge my that that would challenge the core of

my whole belief system over whether or not it said if women can wear jewelry or something but I I do think that and I don't know there's an exact answer but I do think you know that's perplexing to me the God of all wisdom would choose to leave some of that in There it's like why so here's the thing so the Bible was written for us but it wasn't written to us there is an original audience whether that's the ancient Israelite in the ancient near Eastern culture or whether it's the Greco Roman believer in Jesus

within the city of Ephesus so as historians and I mean most of the books on this end of my shelf are what I refer to commentaries God be smart enough to know I'm not just going to write to this Demographic of this Civilization now knowing I'm a God who created the whole world and people are still going to be studying this thousands of years later that's what I was going to say but I didn't want to come off yes so I'm I'm sorry I'm by the way I'm the worst interruptor ever and it's never it's

more of my ADD type thing of like I get a thought and I got to get it out or else I freaking forget it so I'm sorry about interrupting thanks for throwing Me under the bus for that yeah so um so how I would answer that is I would say this so you do have um examples of where Paul is writing and he's writing to a particular group and so we look at okay what does it mean for a woman to wear and Adorn themselves with gold in a first century Greco Roman context right it

has to do with the fact that prostitutes would wear those things so so we need to ask the question what is the intention of the text so I got ask The meaning how do you interpret that that that's I I I've been the reason I'm interrupting you is I've heard this I've been there done that yeah I and I respect the crap out of you for how deep you go into studying the the the ancient texts and stuff which which is so important for the real root of it all but um they've told me that

same thing and I'm like I don't but why doesn't it just say that he was Speaking to the women and stuff that were prostitutes of that time like where does that he's not speaking to prostitutes he's he's talking about purity and he's talking in the context of when he says you know don't Adorn yourself with jewelry the original audience and we can explore this by the dumb that sounds what saying the original audience then later on saying but now it's okay okay for this audience because these women and stuff because I Get why people like

if we're gonna we got to be open-minded we're punching holes and other stuff to punch holes on our own and even if it's a green like it's don't you think that's AUD I I get what you're saying like if if prostitutes at that right now if prostitutes all wear a red band around their neck and that signals what all prostitutes are a lot of a lot of prostitutes have tattoos and a lot of women who aren't prostitutes have Tattoos right that I don't think it's this black and white that only The Prostitute and and also

you're only talking about in one little town so my bigger question would be to God well in Roman Antiquity why did you put that in the Bible that just confuses everyone though because all these other civilizations are going to be reading we have a we have something we keep saying here God didn't put that in the Bible men put this stuff in the Bible And I I think that with some of the old I'm telling you Billy it's for me I I think he'll get back guy um it's G if it wasn't for sorry you're

we got you back on West yeah um I understand what you're saying Mark but what I'm saying is I think we we we're missing a big Point here the point that I'm trying to make here is that the Bible is written by people men men who are extremely flawed and the evidence of that is what they did what They took the information that's in that biblical text and what they did with it globally to to other human beings and how they even wrote about it in the Bible how they enslaved and tortured people in the

biblical text uh so in that in that case even in the book of Deuteronomy which one of the most brutal books out there where everything is given okay to rape women kill women kill children if one person talks against your lord go to that town and kill the Whole town burn town down so brutal turns people into Sal the Kill The Killing in the Bible is not being done by Satan that's why I'm say I don't care I don't believe in demons and all this other kind of stuff Moses goes to the top he talks

to God he gets his tablet the first the Commandments are Thou shalt not kill he comes down as soon as he sees the people making a golden calf he kills most of them it's just like come On and I've learned with some of these stories how it correlated with killing kill your first son related to then what happened with Jesus but I I'm still like in my head they're like that's so beautiful he was willing to sacrifice his son as God would and I'm like I don't believe that's so mean that God I don't believe

it's beauti like Jesus changed my whole story no when I'm in heaven and and I don't Believe God is irrational because he's would be smarter than every one of us to be able to literally create everything I I would be like God I don't like why would you tell that dude to kill his son I don't see any benefit in killing your own kid and then right at the last second he's like no it's cool I was just testing your faith in me it's like that seems psychologically uh um to me when God's like kill

your own son but then at the last minute sistic Don't do it oh man you proved your faith to me I would be like God isn't there like a I don't feel like you need to do that to a person I don't think that's the such a beautiful story and I'm talking as a Christian that there's a lot of things with the Old Testament I I struggle with but it doesn't change my overall overarching beliefs and and I think there is things that are written in maybe misinterpreted that aren't as important as the bigger things

like the Crucifixion and stuff of Jesus like I'm hoping to God that your methodology of proven that is right compared to billies in that specific scenario but and some of these other things like I almost rather them be disproved that God killed his uh that God and and I've heard a I've heard a lot of these um different answers and stuff and and I know God gave us free will and I understand all that too but it's just Like the god of the Old Testament in Jesus it's hard to believe that they're the same person

yeah can I sorry I I cut out quite a bit there and so I think I missed the large portion so I apologize for that and I'm just to say a lot of stuff that I want to say yeah so let me just say this so the most quoted verse of the Bible in the Bible is a is a version of Exodus 346 which which fundamentally describes who God is that he's compassionate and loving full of grace and mercy and abounding and steadfast love and so in fact if you read the Book of Jonah the

beef that Jonah has with God the reason why he doesn't want to go to Nineveh is because he believes that God is so loving that if he tells the ninevites to repent and they repent God is going to forgive them so fundamentally we have the picture of God consistently throughout the Bible both in the Old and New Testaments as being a God who is rich in love and mercy and abounding in steadfast kindness and so we want a God who is just and just to speak very briefly to the the slavery issue I mean Exodus

or sorry Leviticus 25 condemns by death the man stealing so stealing someone and selling them into slavery and the fact that the Ten Commandments are preface with you are a nation who was slaves you know I'm the god of Israel who brought you out of Egypt so There's a fundamental difference and there's lots of literature on this I would uh encourage people to read uh my friend Paul Copan book is God of moral monster he's written some excellent stuff he's also written on did God command genocide in the Old Testament he's a leading expert in

the field of comparative analysis of an near Eastern War literature and so there are very coherent explanations for these things and that slavery within ancient Israel Was very very different from what slavery around the ancient e East was like and on top of that once again continu when abolition movements happen what's that sorry Billy I said slavery continued on throughout the Bible with no problems but it was always It Was Always undergirded by the fact that um this was not the ideal that this was something that should not be done and even slavery within ancient

Israel was Fundamentally different than slavery around the ancient Aries this is not a this is not a a contested fact you can look at the scholarship of individuals uh like Wright who's written extensively on this he's a he's an ancient ethesis and uh there's ve there's vast difference between the law codes in Leviticus Deuteronomy and numbers and something like the code of hamurabi which uh puts people on a tier system and gives different punishments Depending on where they are within Society that's not true in ancient Israel if you were a king and you stole somebody

and you s sold them into slavery they would punish you by death but you you steal somebody else's slave you can't steal somebody else's slave that's not a good thing to do right the point that I'm making here I got I got to say something before I get out of here is the Bible is full of of of Contradictions the um the biggest problem that we have have is we're dealing with a civilization on this planet that is psychologically impaired human beings are are are psychologically impaired this entire planet we're living on an insane asylum

Earth is an absolute insane asylum mental illness has spread throughout the planet Earth like a complete virus and when you take a text like the like the biblical text knowing that human beings globally are are Mentally ill this entire planet is a mental insane asylum and I'm talking everyone every single all 8 billion whatever number of people we have now are all mentally ill and what I mean is there's different levels of mentally ill we all have trauma that we're not dealing with we all have internal issues we all have uh situations that shadow work

that needs to be done and so and people some people are at higher levels of M mental illness than others most of Us are functioning functional mental illness people but when you take a look at the bibl biblical text and you start going through this information and it's the way it's being the way that it's laid out it uh it becomes a proponent of more divide and conquer tactics it becomes a proponent of racism it becomes a proponent of slavery it becomes a proponent of all these things that are dark and Ill including murder and

Killing In The Name Of God which has Been done how many millions of times so my my thing about the biblical text is is it actually authored by the creator of the universe or is it authored by the dark Forces of maybe if this Satan is real Satan himself and the reason why I say that is because all knowing all loving God omnipotent and omniscient that is creating not only this universe probably most likely multiple universes because a Creator never stops creating especially with Infinite power is now uh at some point going to author a

text that is going to allow human beings to misinterpret it and take it in his name and begin to slay people torture people and enslave people worldwide to claim that you're chosen ones to set up a state of chosen people and then to even claim that you have chosen land and to torture and kill even more people women and children in modern times still going on to this very day to me that doesn't seem like a very Intelligent being especially a being that knows the beginning and the end so if you know the beginning and

the end you have a certain level of for knowledge you have advanced knowledge that goes beyond you know what's the ending before the end even occurs so you set up everything for Success why because a genius solves problems before they happen and I'm going to drop the mic on that with with some of that too um I Think came back on um yeah there there's old there's old stuff that it's hard to comprehend but the thing that CH again continued to change my life was Jesus and the core of it was love conquers all things

so yeah yeah yeah go on we do a follow I really appreciate it Billy thanks so much for interacting so yeah I yeah I would it doesn't cut out a a followup on um just out of my own curiosity west of it it's these are thing again like Jesus has Changed my changed everything in in my studies I mean I was young I was in trouble I was in jail at age 17 um it changed my whole life and everything Billy was just talking about yes of course we all know people are broken it's yeah

Jesus that has helped me through and all of us were never perfect through my Brokenness um and and there's so much more love than so many people know and I it's unfortunate that some of the stuff has Caused you know people can pull something and there there is anger and there's truths to what he was just at least talking about there when you were cutting off about the wars and everything too and it's it's sad because like that's not what Jesus is doing there for us and for people that truly don't have you know the

Jesus I know in their life I Don't Preach down on them like I'm better than you or I I to me it saddens me to be honest West talking Heart tohe heart because I'm like man at the end of the day I've had so many times bro I've had times I'm telling you my wife's Muslim but it was a church that saved our marriage we were separated we've been married 18 years like three years into our marriage we were separated living separate had our two kids she was so lost she literally found herself driving to

a church as a Muslim it just so happened At 11:00 a.m. there's too many coincidences in my own life that I can prove that um she found well everyone listening to this she found a um person that happened to randomly be at church at 11: in the afternoon and he just so happened to be the the marriage counselor and she's just like I'm I'm a Muslim I don't even know what got me coming here and my marriage is is not It's my my wife just randomly found herself at the church basically opening up that when

the marriage counsel happen to be there at 11: a on like a Tuesday she's like I'm a Muslim I don't know why I'm here and my I don't know what to do my marriage is falling apart and the these are proofs where like I can dot these out throughout my own life my own experience and it just so happened as a Muslim then then my wife and I started attending csing at our church through Christian therapists and I start seeing all these other marriages that were so broken the craziest things happened and then they reconnected

and had this this Foundation that was Unbreakable and the only thing that they all had in common was they had God and Jesus in the center of their marriage and by the way now my wife and I have been married for 18 years and she has struggled internally with the Christianity how that saved our marriage and and being raised a Muslim And stuff and that's a whole other conversation but my point is like God is orchestrating and there's so many different examples I have in my own life of of actual proof of it this is

totally different than what you and Billy were talking about you know going into the actual historical proofs and the methodologies this is more of my own testimony that I have to share on a whole show one day to where sometimes people get into was Jesus this color Scin or that and I'm like I at the end of the day I I could care that means nothing to me all I know is when when I was down and out and in jail and nothing he's like Mark I still love you even in jail I still love

you he's like but I have such a better life for you if if you stop doing stupid in my head I I heard the way I talk like Shi he's like then stupid Shi will stop happening to you he's like but either way I I love you and I could feel That like in my gut and and and that love and stuff is is so real and I listen and I and I've continually changed and I'm a constant work in in progress I mean we are all broken and I get that and and I'm just

opening up to everyone that struggles and the anger and stuff I I can see from their point of view you know when you read some of those stories it they can come off and only think that it it's evil and and not understand the Beauty and the real love it sounds it can sound corny but like speaking from my full life experience I've had so many times in tears and it's like no other human beings there but at the end of the day like God's always there man and if I didn't have that I literally

Wes would have gone insane by now that's just me personally yeah you know yeah no I appreciate that and I apologize for all the tech issues we're having here I'm I'm flipping in and out but yeah I mean I would Echo that I mean what I said about how the god of the Bible is described that when God reveals himself and he says you know I am Yahweh the compassionate the gracious slow to anger and abounding his steadfast love and faithfulness I think we see that carried right over through the testimony of scripture and when

you look at Jesus saying things like but I say to you love your enemies do good to those who hate you bless those who curse you pray for Those who mistreat you love your enemies as yourself uh you know don't expect anything back he says but I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be children of your father in Heaven I mean I truly believe Christianity is verifiably true and I would really encourage listeners you know dig into these things um not to be too self-serving um but

I have a lot of historical information on my website Wesley huff.com Oh for all your information too yeah doing doing a we've been doing a series um with the organization I work for apologetics Canada called can I trust the Bible we have two episodes out talking about the cannon and the text of scripture I'm going to be going in 2025 to um hopefully a number of other countries and exploring even some of the Old Testament stories going to the locations where they happened overseas and talking about you know how do we Deal with some of

these more tricky texts and the historical reliability of them so I I'm not afraid of the nitty-gritty here I want us to understand those things and so God has changed my life Mark just like he's changed yours and I really appreciate that and I appreciate Billy being willing to come on and interact I think I think Billy's a great guy I just think fundamentally he really is Wes to to to tell you and I told him um I love him so much I didn't want him to feel bombard and but he he's respect and I

told him um I was G to have you I wouldn't just catch him off guard but he's another example of CS Lewis when he's everything he says I know when you become famous on social media people can think he's the guy where it's like I have something going on with my family whatever I need something he will fly across the world and be there for me in a heartbeat for any of my CH for any I've seen him help so many people not on social media I mean like home and I've watched social media I

watched people just butcher um try to butcher his his character when I've seen him behind the SE scenes acting like CS Lewis was saying like in in God's eyes of I've watched him get a homeless guy literally a car and all these people writing in hate that it was fa all the and I'm like he dude he's my neighbor I watched him not only do that but buy three other People cars that wasn't even public to Out of Love of wanting his character aligns with Christ more than he even knows it it it's and that's

where I believe the devil tries to to Really defy people like in the details and I understand where his anger and everything's coming from but but now what you're pointing out here West too is the factual methodologies of of of these Things the way you measure them and and how you've been you know trained not just you but it sounds like historians it's not like you're just using some random thing not all those same tools are being and I'm just dumbing this down to something like me like being used in the way that he's legitimizing

some of these major claims some of the the other stuff with the technology and all that I I believe that could be very I think That's really fascinating but like the stuff from the book saying Jesus wasn't actually crucified that that's a huge deal so it's like that didn't seem to be passing th all th those marks of how you would measure whether or not you know not just you but like the scholars and stuff of if something is truly valid or not and I'm not saying that means every he says to everyone listening isn't

valid I think a lot of stuff I I know when he's out of the country I see him In these site like that's you know what I mean so he's not just like some person trying to just make some fake media I I'm just letting everyone know because we believe differently we respect each other at the core he he's like a brother to me you know yeah I I hope none of my critiques of Billy whether you know today or you know any anything I posted online reflect any kind of castigation on his character I

I that's not my goal um I my goal is and I do this with Christian videos too sometimes people say uh a little bit crazy things with the biblical languages or whatever and sometimes I do go on social media I'm like hey we need to correct this because uh we need to make sure that what we're saying is true and there's a historical smell test and um I'm afraid a lot of what Billy says just does not pass the historical smell test and that is nothing to do with him as a person it's not a

personal attack I think I would Just implore and encourage Billy you know the sources that you're using the ways that you're analyzing evidence they need to be verifiable and I think when we look at the Bible and we look at what it says that you have these early eyewitness testimonies of this person Jesus Christ I think those are verifiable and we can say what we have now is what the original authors wrote and those original authors they are eyewitnesses of those events and Jesus He says audacious things he claims to be God himself and then

he predicts his own death and resurrection and he does it and people who rise from the dead have more credibility and Authority than people who don't rise from the dead and so I think that means something you know you mentioned CS Lewis CS Lewis said that a Christianity if false is of no importance and if true is of infinite importance the only thing it cannot be is moderately important and so I think We need to take that seriously we need to make sure that we're analyzing whether it's true or whether it's false and if it's

false C throw it away it it's no like I said before there's no use in following a lie even if it's a convenient lie but if it's true that should fundamentally change the way that you live your life and I think it is verifiably true yeah I as we're ending up I I obviously live my life believing it to be true but I there Are some things I still struggle with and by the way so did everyone else in the Bible as I was saying they leave them in they they never were just one day

perfectly I'll never mess up again I'll never doubt God again that's what continues like I was telling you Wes to make me believe is the humanity that's in the Bible throughout to where if if it was written by a person they I feel like they would make These people like perfectly once they found God they never question him again even after all this they'd be like I'm doubting this God I don't so and that to some people they look at that as contradictory to me it was the opposite that gives me hope because it's more

relatable and God's like I I'm always here and I feel like that's us as humans and and one thing I want to tell you that because you like scholary stuff I think you'll find this Interesting I got my BS in Psychology at Colorado State and in one of my courses we studied um Jes and it wasn't a Christian College by any means any religion but we did a case study of Jesus Christ and ran all the standardized psychological test and it's basically if Jesus Christ which everyone agrees was a person that existed in that time

I don't think there's really anyone that questions that anymore that's so been so overly proven regardless of your Beliefs if he was a person in that time and claimed to be the Son of God he would either be he'd be something on how we measured psychological disorders whether it's full-blown narcissism or um you know H schizophrenic all kinds of things and we ran the test the same we would with everyone else studying his writings and life as a whole so because he just said one thing We couldn't only we had to take everything into account

to see like the patterns of of what he said his actions yeah how did they match up his words you know the different psychological tests because you could say one thing but you could start to see behind the scenes oh yeah they have some schizophrenia like different symptoms that would correlate over time but he couldn't not be he he would either have to be the Son of God or crazy You you you can't you and I that's not the the politically correct term they would have had but even our professor who by the way didn't

claim to have a a belief and religion said it can't be both well at the end of the test Jesus came out to have no psychological disorders at all meaning he was a sound person and what he said would have been true and that class actually without them even knowing It took my faith even to a uh I already had strong faith in but I'm like wow that took it to another CS LS even level right there that we just did a case study on him ranom through the test and he's not crazy but he

says he's the son of God yeah well that's the louisan D trilemma um where C Lewis said that if you take Jesus ser L he's either a liar a lunatic or he's Lord and so uh it's very interesting that you you phrase it That way and even going back to what you were saying and touching on the methodology question historians when we do analysis uh we one of the methodologies is what's referred to as the Criterion of embarrassment and what you talked about with the authenticity of the heroes of the Bible being fundamentally flawed is

one of those uh criteria you know if it people in history don't usually write things that look make themselves look bad that Reflect poorly on their leaders and kings and I mean you look at this when you look at the inscriptions from the ancient n East the Babylonian inscriptions the Sumerian descriptions the Egyptian descriptions they always make the king the Pharaoh look good right because even when they even when they lose battles they spin it in this like political narrative I mean just like we do today with politics right but when you read the Bible

the what really Sets it apart both a religious text and in a historical text is the honesty it conve concerning its Heroes and a primary theme of Biblical scripture is that the greatest individuals spoken about in it through its pages are broken and flawed you know even just thinking quickly yeah sure Abraham was the father of a nation and he was a liar Jacob was a patriarch of Israel and he stole his brother's Birthright right Moses led the Jews out of captivity but he was a Murderer Daniel was the greatest King you mentioned he was

a man after God's Own Heart and at the same time he was a Serial adulterer Noah was the only righteous person on the earth Genesis success but he was a drunk Peter was part of Jesus's Inner Circle and when things got tough what happened he chose to deny he even knew Jesus Paul wrote more books in the New Testament Jesus any other book yeah are beautiful too where he denied Him three times but then what did Jesus say back to him three times was it do you love me you love me and so then these

are things that I find really fascinating Wes then he got the chance to he denied him three times but the chance to redeem him which God wasn't doing that for God yeah I think God was doing that for Peter because he knew how broken he was going to be over that but at the core of it I just want everyone listening to This from all different beliefs I don't believe our God is an irrational God and I know people can get religion and stuff Mo so miscon Red by so many things but at the core

of it God really looks at I believe what's in our hearts and and who we truly are and yeah when we make mistakes do we continue to try to be better than the version of ourselves that we were before and are you trying to live a life of purpose and that looks different for different people in Different circumstances and I think he's a very rational God and much more smarter than us and much more loving and and there is stuff that I I definitely still have questions about but it's not enough to break down it

it would be more like 8% of stuff out of it out of the Bible verse the other 92% that yeah I know is is so true you know in be things like that like the necklaces and that which aren't hugely Relevant but it's just still perplexing to me at times but I I and I understand how you're able to explain it and I'm sorry for cutting you I've just I I knew I have heard it and I know you know it all and I'm not even dis I I completely believe what you're saying and I

believe that to be true but it it's but you get how it can be like perplexing as well at times you know does that make sense yeah I mean no one's arguing that all scripture is um Easy to understand I mean I think scripture is clear on what it's clear about you know the the that we live in a world that is broken that is flawed that we are in not in right relationship as the creature with our creator and you know you have this Narrative of fall or of creation fall and then Redemption and

restoration and I think that is clear and that's not to brush over texts that are more complicated I mean the reason I have you know I have a home library with Over 200 books with you know almost 2,000 years of historical writings um is that people are wrestling with these things and I think that's okay you know God is big enough to handle our doubts and he's big enough to handle our wrestling and I think that's a good thing I think the fact that God made us with a mind and then calls us to love

him with all of our heart soul and mind means that God wants us to explore and let me just finish off on this is you Know you look in the the there's a book of the Bible called the Psalms right in the middle of the Bible and Psalm 23 is a very famous Psalm you know the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want he makes me lie down in Green Pastures at the psalm immediately before it Psalm 22 starts off like this my God my God why have you forsaken me why are you so

far from me and you know what the one thing I really moves me about the God of the Bible is that the same God who sees the person Who says the Lord is my shepherd I shall not wand and this and the person who says my God my God why have you forsaken me the same God sees those as equally valid forms of worship in that the god of the Bible is not afraid of questioning of doubting and he says hey come to me we I'm big enough to handle these things and I've given you

a mind to explore them and I fundamentally believe that Christianity is true and so we need to wrestle with these things we Need to explore them we need to go to the original sources and we need to make sure that we're doing our due diligence and not just having a blind faith the does not call us to Blind Faith it calls us to a faith that seeks understanding and so that's hopefully uh What uh I hope the listener is hearing in what I'm saying um I love Billy I love you Mark I don't want to

cast any negative aspersions on anybody but I fundamentally believe that all Billy is Incorrect and I think that there should be a level of accountability to correct that but I appreciate him coming on and being willing to do this absolutely Wes and I I appreciate look this came everyone listening and watching when this airs so quickly that um I've been wanting to have this talk with Billy for a while but then it came up so quickly because I'm back and forth from my company he's out of the then we're like wait we're Actually able to

do this tomorrow and I'm like man and then I'm looking at our couns I'm like I don't think we're both going to be available for so I'm like we just have to make and I was pray I'm like I could talk to him all day about are my beliefs his beliefs but half those books and stuff I would be looking up on chat GB like what is it I don't know them so I'm like I'll have nothing to say to that and I don't think anyone's really from what I've seen Debated that and I'm like

I need and I I was praying I reached out and I'm like I just got to make this so it's solid information for everyone listening and and watching and I'm like I I don't have the wi and then someone who I highly highly trust like I told you Wesley has watched your stuff um highly recommended you and it comes from such a highly trusted source that from not even seeing any of your which I never do on this show People know from elevating and Beyond I watch people's stuff I'll pre-screen them from knowing that in

him as a source I'm like all right I I believe that and I told you this Wesley too but I think it's important for you to know to keep pushing you to do what you're doing he struggled a lot and he works with a lot of spiritual gurus and celebrities and he's all over in media and he believed he really gave up on religion for a lot of the reasons that We were talking about and I get it people get mad because these They're ran by places are ran by people and there's some awful things

that happen from people to people but that's not God so I I I get where the anger can come from you know I don't stand here on a pedestal and act like everyone I I I understand they're going through these things and why they get angry but what's beautiful is God continually doesn't give up on You and whatever the different ways are he started watching your stuff at the right time when he was challenging everything and because people like you Wes come in almost as a a modern day I know these are huge shoes to

say but like CS Lewis type researching mindset where you're also challenging other Christians in churches too and you're like no like what you're saying right there you're like I'm not saying all this you're Challenging everything in a really Wise Way and and coming from a place of love too and we need more of this because people are are either able to break it apart because they say well the the documentation isn't there the it's not proven in history or they break it apart in all these other areas and they're like well these people are irrational

and they think they're better than other people and you come across as Someone that truly cares it truly is like after God's heart humble but also very intelligent and smart and you're putting in your research on that side of things too and you're willing to be wrong and right and that led my good friend to ReDiscover God and has actually he's starting to he's he's well known but he's preparing to start sharing his whole testimony which a lot of people are going to be Surprised he said that's been because of like largely because of us

and I just I got to let you know that my man because that's that's why we're here right it's it's to fight the good fight it's it's really to help people understand and connect that are watching this and listening to this you know that Wes and I aren't on here Wes isn't on here trying to to be a hater and and hate on Billy at all I think you're really just trying to check I don't think you're Just looking factually for what you're finding things to be and we need we need more of this and

I I I don't think we see enough of it on people just pull these sensationalized clips out of everything they will from the show too they they could edit this any not we won't we'll air the whole episode and we'll do Clips to lead them back to the full I don't we don't edit unless there's like a gap but we don't Change stuff you know we make reals and all that good stuff but people see too much of that and it it throws them off and there's so many people that have been taken away by

these people who I know tons and you know they see him on social media as one Persona or these huge preachers or something behind the scenes they're a totally different person and when you meet someone who is who they are both on and off the camera you know of course you're prepared You're in the camera and we're all human but overall your character and core values line up people aren't used to seeing that these days and we need more of it so I just want to tell you to keep doing what you're doing and I

also appre appreciate you with pretty much no notice jumping on here for this show and we'll definitely pre-arrange something for the longer term future to to really do something in person hopefully all of us because when you do when you all sit Together in person you have time pre-show to talk and get to know each other and you can really feel the energy and stuff too and I think that's a special thing that needs to be done more it's it's just it's not done enough in this day and age so I respect you for coming

on and I respect Billy for sitting there and you know he didn't just like I'm not doing this I'm leaving he was will he had to leave he had a meeting at 1 so when he rushed off by The way he stayed on 20 minutes past it just to let everyone know he wasn't like I'm leaving this West guys but it was like dude Mark I his wife's texting him the people are showing up at the house so yeah yeah yeah no I appreciate that and I appreciate you reaching out to me um and and

you know that encouragement that that you shared uh I'm let nobody think I'm anything other than in the same boat as yourself Mark and everyone else or sorry Billy and everyone else You know we're all apart from the saving work of Christ we're we're all on the same um page and it's only by not anything I've done but but what what Jesus did uh that leads me to where I am and so it's just it's a position of humility that I get to do what I do uh even to begin with um it's not because

I'm anyone special I'm certainly not uh but God has uh led me along in order to equip me to where I am today working with the people I do at apologetics Canada and being able to do the academic inquiry that I have the privilege to be able to dig into that's cool to to be honest we finish up you you guys you and Billy have a lot more in common than you he if you guys could unify one day and that's what the devil doesn't want either that's a power powerful force because you guys both

remind me of like Indiana Jones each in your own different ways you're going and you're seeking the knowledge he goes everywhere and and he He really believe he you know he he goes in there he explores all that he he really is seeking knowledge and that's a beautiful thing so I appreciate all this again everyone it's Wesley Huff Instagram we'll have it all in the show notes at Wesley Hoff uh your web page again and Billy Carson of course Forbidden Knowledge has the TV network the show he's all over the place I mean if you

watch any of the podcast over the past six months he's been on pretty much Everyone you can Joe Rogan everywhere everything he's doing amazing things everyone too but this was an important conversation to have so uh anywhere else they can we you Wesley before we pop off yeah Wesley huff.com would be the you know One-Stop shop any any of my other socials or um the podcast that I I uh sometimes jump on to or the videos that I do that can all be found there awesome thank you so much my good man and thank you

so much Billy and everyone never settle never give up and keep elevating be on