[Music] Hey guys, welcome to Relatable! I am so excited about this conversation that I am having today with Dr Wayne Grudem. I think most of you know exactly who he is; you have probably read as a resource *Systematic Theology*, *Politics According to the Bible*, or his book *Christian Ethics*.
This person has been a giant in the world of Christian ethics and theology, helping people understand how to read the Bible, study the Bible, and shape their worldview based on the Bible. He has been so influential to me in helping me shape my worldview according to the Word of God, and I'm so excited to get to talk to him today. Before we talk, I just want to remind you guys about the book *You're Not Enough (And That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love*.
We are walking through this book in the women’s book club with Ali Stucky on Facebook. Go to alibethstucky. com/book.
It is a resource for young women in particular, but really, it can apply to all kinds of people, about the top cultural myths that are being fed to us by self-love gurus: why they are incorrect, how they actually lead to destruction, and how we replace their falsehoods with the truth of God’s Word. It is a book about good news, explaining why the burdens of self-love are actually too much for us to bear and why the burden that Jesus gives us, which is light, and the yoke that Jesus gives us, which is easy, is far better for us to carry than the burden and the yoke that the world gives us. Okay, without further ado, here is Dr Wayne Grudem.
Dr Grudem, thank you so much for joining me; it’s good to be with you! I think that everyone who is listening knows exactly who you are. They have probably read *Politics According to the Bible* or *Systematic Theology*, or they at least have it as a resource on their bookshelf.
But in case there are one or two people out there who do not know who you are and what you do, can you give a brief summary of who you are? Well, there are thousands of people who don’t know who I am, but I’m a professor at Phoenix Seminary in Arizona. I've been teaching theology and ethics for 44 years now, and my PhD is in New Testament.
I have moved over to teaching what is basically systematic theology, which is what the whole Bible teaches about different theological topics. Then I worked into the area of ethics, which is the Bible applying to all of life. I wrote a little book on business called *For the Glory of God*, which is the Bible applying to business practice.
I wrote a book on *The Poverty of Nations*, which applies the Bible to national policies to bring poor nations out of poverty into prosperity. I wrote *Politics According to the Bible*, which seeks to find good biblical-based principles for government to function so it will serve for the good of the people, not just the good of the rulers. That has been an influential book, and I'm thankful to God for that.
Yes, well, I'm very thankful for that as well! You recently wrote a letter that I read on townhall. com—an open letter to an anti-Trump friend, someone who approached you and said, “For these reasons, how can you as a Christian possibly vote for Donald Trump?
” Can you talk about why you, as a Christian and as an ethics professor, do support Donald Trump? Well, it's basically because of the policies and the actions he has carried out as president. He has followed policies that I think are consistent with biblical principles in many cases.
I could just mention a few: the conservative judges that he has appointed interpret the law according to the original meaning and the Constitution according to the original meaning of the words, rather than a judge who imposes his own view of what should happen on the nation, even when it's contrary to the meaning of the words of the law or the Constitution. He’s built a stronger military, whereas in the previous administration our military was underfunded and began to shrink. President Trump has overseen a huge increase in military funding, which is necessary with hostile nations like North Korea, China, Russia, Iran, and so forth.
Tax cuts and deregulation have led to the huge expansion of the American economy, which is really important for everyone. I could go down a list of things: moving the American embassy to Israel, becoming a true and genuine friend to Israel and standing with it, negotiating a remarkable agreement between the United States and the United Arab Emirates, which includes the largest city, Dubai, the headquarters for transportation and finance in the Middle East, and on and on. I have another Townhall column called "30 Good Things That President Trump Has Done for America," and the list could go on.
So now my friend wrote me and said, “How can you support a man of such evil character? ” I wrote back and said, “You know, the assessment of someone's character is a judgment call and it requires taking into account many factors. ” I’ve publicly criticized President Trump’s previous infidelity in his marriages, his rash behavior, his bombastic behavior, and his vindictiveness towards people who disagree with him, and those are character flaws.
I don't want to approve of them; I disagree with them. But in spite of those character flaws, I realize that everyone has character flaws. He has remarkable courage and faithfulness to his promises, and he has done things that I think are good for the nation.
And again, again, I really think that his motives, deep down, are to do what is best for the nation. He doesn't need money; he's got three billion dollars—three thousand million dollars. He's a millionaire three thousand times over.
Uh, he doesn't need money. He doesn't need further, uh, friends or, uh, I don't know, you could go down the list of things, right? But his desire seems to me to be to help the country.
Now, um, Alibaba people will say to me, "Doesn't it hurt the Christian gospel when you support such an immoral person? " And my response is: it's not the fault of Republicans; it's not the fault of Christians that the Republican Party and President Trump have moved to endorse and carry out policies of less government, lower taxes, stronger military, conservative judges, and many other things. The Republicans under President Trump have moved closer to biblically based positions on those issues, and the Democratic Party has moved farther away from those positions.
And I've held those positions—since I mentioned in this letter—since at least 1964, when I read "A Choice Not an Echo. " I was a junior in high school and became involved in Young Republicans, campaigning for Barry Goldwater for president. He lost disastrously to Lyndon Johnson, but I became convinced that smaller government, lower taxes, and a strong military were policies good for a nation.
I've held that for—how long is that? —36, 56 years, right? And now, President Trump and the Republican Party, in the Republican platform, come along and favor those policies.
Well, it’s inevitable that I’m going to say I’ll support a candidate who carries out those policies much more clearly than any Obama administration did, or an Obama administration did, right? Is there ever a time—I’ve weighed this and tried to think through—is there ever a time when a politician or a presidential candidate supports all of the policies that we agree with, but his character flaws outweigh the policies that he supports? Is there ever a time when we say, "You know what?
That character flaw or that moral decision that he made is just one too far, and we just can't vote for this person even though we agree with all of their policies"? Yes. Um, but I’m going to echo what Al Mohler said when he was on an interview with you a few days ago.
He said, "I’m not going to speculate and get into hypotheticals. " I could say that the Constitution specifies treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors as grounds for impeachment, and those certainly would be areas where, if a president committed those crimes, it would make him unfit for office. But beyond that, I don’t think it's right to speculate.
Right. Certainly, I think President Trump, in his conduct within his office as president, his conduct, has been exemplary in many ways, and, uh, people are criticizing him for his life before he became president, before he ran for president. But I'm saying, look at who he is, how he has acted now, apart from media distortions.
Now here's another problem, Alibaba: If people watch CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, they're going to get an incredibly imbalanced view of President Trump and his policies. Right? I saw a study by the Media Research Center.
They took June and July of 2020 evening newscasts on CBS, NBC, and ABC and counted the times that evaluative statements were made about President Trump or Joe Biden. Now, Joe Biden was already the presumptive nominee in the Democratic Party because Bernie Sanders had conceded, and they found that for every one positive evaluative statement that people heard about President Trump, they heard 18 negative statements. But more than that, for every negative statement they heard about President Biden, they heard 158 negative evaluations of President Trump.
Now, when you compare speaking about the two presidential candidates and say there’s something wrong with one presidential candidate, you say once, and you say 158 times something negative about the other presidential candidate—that’s not journalism. That’s not fair reporting! That’s tremendous bias!
That’s the mainstream media campaigning on behalf of one presidential candidate and attempting character assassination, uh, on the part of the other candidate. And I think the American people have to be aware of that. I would say, Ali Beth, to your listeners: If you're listening to ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, or the New York Times, Washington Post, and getting your information about President Trump from that, you're getting false information a lot of the time.
And it's—I’m thankful that we have the Wall Street Journal editorial page, we have Fox News, and other conservative outlets for news, but they're being overwhelmed by this incredibly negative, hostile press coverage. Yes, and it’s not even just the press. You could argue that social media is skewed towards anti-Trump and certainly anti-conservative rhetoric.
Certainly Hollywood is, academia is, and so there are lots of cultural and media megaphones that are all saying the same message, and it can be very difficult, I think, to cut through the noise. Now, what about the people who are listening to this who say, "Okay, you know what? I don't even care about his personal flaws," but they don’t even understand why conservative politics, like you said, smaller government, lower taxes, deregulation—they don’t understand why that aligns with a Christian worldview.
There are a lot of young people who believe that socialism is actually much more biblical and much more compassionate, and conservatism doesn’t care for the least of these at all. So can you clarify that? Why, according to the Bible, are you a conservative?
Well, socialism is dehumanizing because it takes away freedom of choice in many areas of life and lets the government make choices. For us, if I have a government that taxes me 50, 60, or 70 percent of my income in order to distribute the money as it sees fit to other people, that's controlling my life, and socialism does that. It's dehumanizing, and it fails in every place it's tried.
We can see the extreme results of socialism, say, in the nation of Cuba, which is horribly impoverished just, I think, 90 miles or so from Florida. It could be a wealthy, prosperous nation with freedom for its people, but instead, they are enslaved in horrible poverty. That's where socialism leads; it ultimately leads to communism.
Socialism, I define, as the government ownership of the businesses, factories—what's called the means of production—and the more government ownership we have of those things, the more government control we have over our lives. That takes away human freedom and takes away human stewardship, and the ability to use our resources and our lives in ways that we believe God is calling us to live. The Democratic Party is also increasingly tending not only toward socialist policies but also increasingly tending toward hostile, anti-Christian policies, forcing artistic professionals, such as cake makers, florists, and photographers, to use their artistic skills to endorse same-sex marriages, which are contrary to the teachings of Scripture, and then face incredible fines if they don't conform and comply with approving conduct that they think is morally wrong.
Forcing nurses, medical technicians, and doctors to participate in abortions, even though they're contrary to their conscience, and threatening them with the loss of their jobs if they don't comply, is another example. I would point out, for another example, allowing biological males who claim to be transgender female to have access to women's locker rooms, bathrooms, and sports teams. Transgender males—transgender females who are biologically male—have set all sorts of state records in Connecticut in women's sports because men's bodies are more muscular, on average, than women's bodies.
The women athletes are losing out to these biological males simply because of regulations imposed by Democratic politicians. Then, Alibeth, I'm very concerned about the lawlessness and rioting that we're seeing in many of our cities: in Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and New York City, where Democratic politicians in charge—mayors and governors in charge of the government—will not let the police intervene but tell them to let the rioters burn, loot, and destroy property. In some cases, injury and death to human life result.
Do we want that? As far as the kind of nation we want? Well, we're voting for a choice between two packages this November: there's Joe Biden and Democratic policies, and there's Donald Trump and Republican policies.
The packages are far, far apart from each other. Yes, and there’s no other choice. We're going to get Joe Biden and Democrats, or we're going to get President Trump and Republicans, and I think Republican policies are much more faithful to Scripture and much more faithful to the good of the nation.
Yes, speaking of the riots that are happening across the country, there are some Democrats that are saying, "You know, they're sporadic; they have nothing to do with Democratic policies. " But I've said many times on this podcast that we are actually seeing the logical conclusion to the worldview of leftism, which divides people by race and socioeconomic class and thus fosters resentment in the same way that Marxism has always done that. And so this is simply the logical conclusion to a lot of these Democratic policies.
What they're doing, just like they always have—just like they did in the Cuban Revolution, which you brought up—just like they've done in every left-wing cultural revolution throughout the past 100 years, is that they are waging this revolution in the name of justice, in the name of compassion, and in the name of equality. Well, justice and compassion certainly are things that the Bible talks about, but there seems to be a disconnect there between some of the Christians who are saying, "Oh, these people are protesting and rioting for justice and compassion," and what the Bible actually calls justice and compassion. So, can you talk about biblical justice?
What is biblical justice? And when Micah 6:8 tells us to do justice, what does that mean? Does it mean the people that are out there rioting in the name of racial justice, or does the biblical definition of justice mean something different?
I'll tell you: biblical justice does not mean stealing other people's property. The eighth commandment says, "You shall not steal," and there are laws in the Old Testament that give penalties for setting fire to your neighbor's property—your neighbor's standing grain, for instance. So, people who commit arson and looting are violating biblical moral standards.
Now, a liberal political mindset, or a Democratic political mindset, tends to hold the view that these people aren't bad; they just had a bad background, and they needed to be listened to and understood. But biblical justice holds people responsible for their wrongdoing and sets out punishment in the laws of Scripture. It says in Ecclesiastes, "When sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the sons of men is fully set to do evil.
" I think that's what we're seeing in the riots—not the peaceful protests and demonstrations; those are perfectly fine and legal—but the riots, arson, and looting that have joined up with these protests. We're seeing that when sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, and what happens? It doesn't calm down the violence and the looting and the arson; it exacerbates it.
It fuels the fire. The heart of the sons of men is fully set to do evil. "Do evil" that says unless government carries out its function of protecting its citizens, violence is just going to increase; lawlessness is going to increase.
I am concerned about an increase in lawlessness in society rather than the rule of law and order. The United States Constitution specifies purposes for government: in order to establish a more perfect union, to form a worker for union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility; that’s one of the major purposes of the government as set down in the first paragraph of the Constitution. But when riots are left to go unchecked and unpunished, the government is failing its duty to ensure domestic tranquility—that is, domestic peace, peace within our borders; provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
I’m calling upon Democratic governors and mayors to enforce biblical justice, to protect property, and to protect people's well-being and lives. I saw last night that Senator Rand Paul, the United States senator, was attacked by a mob in Washington, D. C.
, and his wife had to be rescued by police to protect them from severe physical harm, as the crowd was threatening them. This should not happen in our nation. I mean, I’ve walked in the area around the White House and felt perfectly safe, but I don’t know if I’d feel perfectly safe today with protesters mingled in with rioters who don’t seek good for our nation, but seek to disrupt and bring chaos, disorder, and lack of safety to our streets.
Then we turn into a police state, with people having armed security—people who can afford it—having private security guards to drive them everywhere. I remember going to speak in Brazil, in São Paulo, and even though my hotel was a mile from the university where I was lecturing, the host there told me it’s not safe to walk on the streets, and they had a van with a security guard pick me up and drive me one mile, which I easily could have walked, because São Paulo is not a safe place to walk. I don’t want the major cities of the United States to turn into an area like that.
But unless these rioters and lawless people, many of whom are just there to bring evil to the United States, are arrested and brought to justice—not arrested and released the next day because of weakness in district attorneys, but arrested and brought to justice—we're in for a very different kind of nation, and we certainly are not going to enjoy living in it to the extent that we do today. Now, how do you think we got here? A lot of these rioters, a lot of them are on Twitter.
You can look at their Twitter profiles; a lot of them say that they are communists. They are openly Marxist-Leninists and want to abolish the police. There was a person who spoke at the DNC who said that she wanted to not just abolish the police, but also abolish prison.
So these are far-left, communistic ideas, and just what is it—31 years after the Berlin Wall fell? Here we are. How did we get here?
How did we get to the point where you’ve got a large swath of people in America who are revolutionizing in the name of communism in a way that is violent? I don’t know; that’s a large swath right now. I think in many cases, these are paid violent agitators who are trying to stir up disruption.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them are ultimately paid by Russia or China or Iran or Cuba, and that can be determined by federal government investigation. You can find out who’s paying the transportation bills, who’s paying the hotel bills, and who’s paying for the weapons that they bring to these demonstrations. I’ve wondered the same thing, and I’ve wondered: is there a particular organization or a person that tells these people, "This is where we’re meeting at this time, and this is what we are going to do"?
Well, I don’t know, but it's easy for the federal government to find out, and it needs to be done quickly. I’m glad for Attorney General William Barr, who has launched this Operation Legend, which has arrested over 1,400, 1,500 people now already. And you notice, Alibeth, when there were threats to tear down statues on federal property in Washington, D.
C. , President Trump announced that they were going to start enforcing the law, which brought a ten-thousand-dollar fine to anyone who damaged federal property, such as federal statues. And all of a sudden, the threats to these statues stopped because a ten-thousand-dollar fine was sufficient, along with jail time.
So I think increased government enforcement of laws is necessary. But Alibeth, I’m also hoping that ordinary citizens of these major cities—Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, Seattle, Portland, and now Kenosha, Wisconsin—I grew up in Wisconsin—that the voters in these cities will vote out these Democratic politicians who have shown such weakness in the face of mob violence and vote in stronger law-and-order candidates, most of whom are going to be Republicans; some may be Democrats. Right, right?
I’m hopeful for that too. And there are some Democratic-run cities now—Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas—these are cities that are run by Democrats who have simply said, "No, we’re not going to tolerate this; we’re going to support our police and we are going to, like you said, enforce the law. " So it is possible.
It is possible for both parties to do that; it just takes saying no. And saying we're not going to tolerate this, but so many city leaders have not. Ten to fifteen years ago, everybody on both political parties would have said the same thing, right?
But we've got an atmosphere of tolerance of evil, a refusal to think that there are people whose hearts are evil and are said to do harm. Uh, yeah, and ultimately, from what the book of Romans says, there is no fear of God before their eyes. Ultimately, people don't have a sense that they are going to be held accountable.
The Apostle Paul, in Acts 17, speaking to pagan Greek philosophers who had no knowledge of the God of the Bible, said, "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed. " This is given testimony by raising Him from the dead. So God has fixed a day in which everyone will be held accountable before Him—a day of judgment.
And when we have a society where there is no fear of God before their eyes, people have lost track of that awareness. But God has put a conscience in people's hearts and an awareness that He exists, and they have to realize that they will be held accountable for the wrong that they have done. Also, it's good for government officials to recognize, according to Romans 13, that God has enabled them to carry out God's vengeance on wrongdoers.
Romans 13 says the civil authority is God's servant for your good and is the servant of God to execute His vengeance on the wrongdoer. So that means—I’ve said this to policemen often—you’re serving God when you bring punishment against those who do evil. We're not to seek personal revenge according to Romans 12, but according to Romans 13, we should give it into the hands of the civil government to execute punishment of the wrongdoers.
First Peter 2 also says the same thing, and we need government authorities at the state and local levels, particularly, but also at the national level, to execute justice by punishing those who do evil and rewarding those who do good. Are you surprised at all at some of the evangelical leaders who seem to be, at the very least, weak on this issue? In my opinion, some seem to be exchanging God’s definition of biblical justice with a secular, more leftist definition of justice.
Are you surprised or dismayed by that at all? Well, Alibeth, there is a long tradition of pacifism; it’s a minority view within the Christian community among people, some of whom I know personally as friends. But the people who have promoted this pacifist view in terms of international relationships and military defense have also expanded that pacifist viewpoint to the local and state level, where they don’t think it is right to use force to overcome evil.
They have this slogan, "Violence begets more violence. " My response is that violence against wrongdoers stops more violence; it prevents more violence. They argue even that if Christians had just been acting more Christ-like, it would have stopped Hitler from taking over Europe.
That’s utter foolishness. Hitler could only be stopped by superior armies, navies, and air forces because there are people in the world who are committing irrational evil, and it cannot be reasoned with; it can only be stopped by superior force. And that’s why we have police to stop evil with superior force.
These pacifists say, "Well, that's not the way of Jesus; Jesus is the way of love and kindness and compassion. " But my response is that Jesus has, in terms of personal relationships, commanded us not to seek vengeance in Romans 12, but to give place to the wrath of God. Then Romans 13 says the civil government, as I mentioned, is God’s agent representative to execute His wrath on the wrongdoer and to be a terror to those who do evil.
Just to take a simple example, someone could say, "Well, we shouldn't have laws against drunk driving; we should just love people and be an example of sober driving. " Well, my goodness, that’s hopeless because there are people who are going to be drunk drivers no matter how much love from Christians they experience. I think the approach is both to love our neighbor as ourselves and to have laws against drunk driving and severe penalties for drunk driving so that people don’t harm others.
So it isn’t enough to say we just have to act in love; yes, we do have to take into account the Bible's provision of force or superior power for police to prevent violence, to prevent drunk driving, but also to prevent arson, looting, and murder. There are Christians who, though, are saying that—for example, you mentioned that superior violence sometimes is necessary to stop wrongdoing. The rioters would argue that they are the ones using superior violence to stop wrongdoing, and you have them storming into people's businesses.
Right, and I agree with you. There are people who defend them, saying that, "Well, if you care more about property than you do about people's lives," talking about the people who have died at the hands of what they call police brutality, "then your priorities are out of place; your priorities are wrong. " There are even professing Christian leaders who I think are weak on this subject or who just say, "I won’t criticize the rioters because at least they’re rioting for the right reasons.
" What do you say to that? Well, the civil justice system in the United States is already taking care of rogue. .
. Police officers and those in the police force—including the officer whose knee was horribly on the neck of George Floyd in Minneapolis—are being subjected to investigation and ultimately criminal charges, and he will be punished appropriately. So, the justice system is working to bring justice in the case of police officers who commit wrongdoing.
So, why do we need a riot in order to do that? But also, property that people work a lifetime to build—a small dry cleaning business, a small grocery store, a small florist shop, or a bakery—when that is looted and destroyed in an evening, is that not part of people's lives? It's what is important in their lives.
They've taken months and years of hard work and sacrificial effort to build it, and taking that away is a violation of the command, "You shall not steal. " In some cases, this is resulting in the actual death of some of the property owners who are trying to protect their property. The Republican convention had, last night, the sad testimony of the wife of a 44-year veteran, I believe, of the St.
Louis police, who was attempting to defend his friend's pawn shop and was murdered in cold blood by these rioters. Now, that's the direction that things are heading unless the government steps in and takes very clear action to stop this ongoing violence. Yes, do you have any encouragement and wisdom for the people who are listening to this?
They are just scared; they don't know what to do. They don’t want the country to turn into some of these cities that we are seeing burn down, and they know that they are to trust God in it. God is completely sovereign—there's nothing that can thwart His will.
They know that, but they're just scared. They're scared for their children, they're scared for their lives, and they're scared for the future of the country. Do you have encouragement and wisdom for those people?
Well, I’d start, Hallibeth, by saying we pray, trust God, and also act. So, we pray according to the Lord's Prayer: "Give us this day our daily bread," but we also go to work to earn a paycheck. We don’t pray and say, “God, give us this day our daily bread,” and then sit at home waiting for some groceries to show up on our doorstep.
The principle—that's just one illustration of a principle in the Bible—is that God wants us to pray and trust Him for our future but also to act responsibly to bring about the good results that we seek from Him. So, if people say, “I’m afraid for the future of our country, but I’m trusting God that He will bring about the right result,” and then they don’t vote, they don’t contribute to any political candidate, they don’t talk to their friends about political issues, they don’t do what they can to influence our nation, I think they're being irresponsible. So, my response is, yes, trust in God that He will bring about what's best for our nation, but do what you can as you have the opportunity—whether it’s volunteering to knock on doors, to do phone calls, or taking time to answer a political survey.
It’s so irritating when we get these phone calls, but it influences public opinion when we take the time to answer. And certainly, to vote—both in state, local, and national elections—because they all influence the direction the country takes. I can say, Hallibeth, also that Romans 13:1 says, “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
” So, that means that God gives us the government that we have and the leadership that we have in each case. Now, here’s the question: Does God give this ruler to bring judgment on our nation or to bring blessing to our nation? Sometimes, He gives a ruler who will bring judgment, as when King Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon carried off the Jewish people into exile, and that was a ruler established by God to bring judgment on the people for their sins.
But sometimes, He brings a ruler who brings blessing to a people, like Cyrus, king of Persia, who decreed that the Jewish people could go back to their homeland of Israel and Jerusalem and rebuild the nation. So now, did God put President Trump in office as a blessing or as a judgment to our nation? I think it’s very clear: as a blessing to our nation.
Lower taxes, greater economic prosperity, more numerous jobs, and higher wages for minority and low-income people, judges that are faithful to the Constitution, rebuilding our military, and defeating ISIS that was causing such havoc in the Middle East and threatening the United States and our interests. In many cases, withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord, which would have been economically disastrous for our nation, and actually building a border wall—over 200 miles now, and maybe 450 miles of border wall completed—much more effective than the ineffective border wall that was in place prior to that. Again and again, these policies are bringing blessings to the nation.
I’m sending negotiating new trade agreements with China, Mexico, and Canada that are more favorable to the United States. I could go on and on; I’ve got on my website 25 or, waynegroom. com, 30 good things that President Trump has done for America.
People could look at waynegrudem. com and see that list or on townhall. com.
Thank you so much; that’s great! I could say also another benefit: I think it’s the large number of evangelical Christians in President Trump’s administration at the highest level, at the cabinet level—Vice President Pence, of course, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, numerous. .
. Other Christians who have positions of influence in government have been marginalized in the Democratic administration and the Democratic Party because the parties have moved so far apart on policies that affect, uh, their beliefs in accordance with or in contradiction to biblical teachings. I think there's a lot at stake in the future of the country, and I'm concerned, but I'm hopeful.
When I look over the list of what President Trump has done, I think there's no question that God has brought him as a leader to bring blessings to our nation. In spite of his character flaws, the results of his presidency have been overwhelmingly good for the nation, and I’m hopeful that that blessing of God will continue for the next four years and more years after that. Right, well, thank you so much.
People can go to waynegrudem. com to see a lot of your writings and your work. Is there anywhere else that you would direct them?
Usually, townhall. com has been publishing the columns that I write, and I expect to be writing some more. I'm thinking of one called "Permitting Pastors to Preach About Politics.
" Right, well, that's good because it tends to be the pastors that are on the wrong side of a lot of the issues, so there definitely needs to be some biblical clarity out there. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time to talk to me, and thank you for the insight that you gave us today.
I really appreciate you being here; it's been good to talk with you. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys.
I hope you enjoyed that conversation. "Politics According to the Bible" by Wayne Grudem covers a lot of the subjects that we talked about today, as well as his book "Christian Ethics," which covers a lot of what we discussed. Like I said, systematic theology is not about politics; it's about the different viewpoints that are represented in the Bible and how people interpret the Bible and the proper way to interpret the Bible.
I will include the links to those resources in my description; I highly recommend you checking them out. They are just so helpful for those trying to shape their worldview. Thank you so much for listening or watching.
If you're watching on YouTube, we will be back here on Monday.
