That was the day the firm was mine wow okay and then I went and hired everybody we love my brother joins my best friend joins my college roommate's brother went to Harvard Business School he runs banking everybody I hire everybody I love but I make that the rule not for me of course for everybody so that's the firm that's located on the 101st to the 105th floor of the World Trade Center my parents died when I was young U mom when I was 16 dad at 18 so that sort of starts the process you lose
one parent it's one thing you lose the second parent it's a whole another thing family pulled out you think okay all the uncles and ants are going to come jump into your rescue no no no they were afraid we'd be sticky you know they'd invite us over and we'd never leave so at my dad's funeral my dad gets killed September so my mom dies of uh of cancer breast cancer um Dad has cancer goes in For his first chemo therapy shot we had no money so we went to the local hospital and nurse makes a
terrible mistake gives him someone else's dose and kills him on the table Jesus September 12th 1979 okay so um at my dad's funeral September 15th uh my dad's brother says uh hey you want to come over for Thanksgiving I'm like isn't that like November why you like aren't you worried about how I'm going to eat say tomorrow Night he's like just let me know if you want to come over never spoke to the guy again wow guy didn't care my sister's 20 I'm 18 my brother's 15 three of us that's it on our own not
really any money sell the house just try to figure it out and that's uh and that's how we start the world so uh my college takes care of me yeah steps up in a crazy way and says we want you to come back cuz I was dropping out take care of my brother dropping out going to run like my Dad's Travel business he had a travel agency like it would run his travel business like I have any clue at the edge of 18 like I didn't even know what a check looked like right my favorite
thing was a the only checks i' ever seen were my mother's checks they had like a sunset on them yeah y so I thought yeah you get a sunset check yeah and then one day I was sitting with one of my friends and he had like a regular blue checkbook and I was like hey what do you get those Like I got this little Sunset thing I got boats and uh so Harford small school in Pennsylvania calls me and says uh uh listen come back we want you come back we got you and we got
you and they uh and I went back so I ended up having the life I was going to lead I put my brother in a boarding school I going ask you where did and he lived with me on the weekends so he was with me on the weekends and is 15 turning 16 trying to pick up chicks you want to yeah you want To talk about learning life fast being 15 on a college campus every weekend so he's sleeping in my dorm room and trying to pick up chicks on the weekend it fun just to
bounce around a little bit you know in hindsight that's a lot to go through you know I it's really interesting I've always you know since we've gotten to know each other more recent times like there's kind of instant connection you have with people I am very fortunate that that did not Happen to me but I would argue my parents losing parents at a very very young age was foundational in how I see life I grew up my entire childhood fearing my parents' death and I mean not like normal people who like it crosses your mind
I mean like it was the major backdrop conversation I had with myself my whole life my mom lost her mom at six in the Soviet my parents grew up in the Soviet Union so like let's start that like it you know and then my dad lost His dad at 16 and it was just a huge currency in my my whole life my mom lost her dad when she was 21 too so she like very quickly was down to zero and my grandma my mom my dad's mom was around a part of my life but it
it's interesting it even though I wasn't the affected of it directly it was a huge factor in how I see Life of the three of you how did you all take that moment well my my mother uh they gave her six months to live and and she lived years but she Lived like tornado she was like really I get 6 months let's go and she'd go to India and just blow out and come back 2 weeks later walk in the door and start yelling at me that I didn't do my homework I'm like hey where
you been and it was like war zone but every once in a while like I'd be sitting in school and the vice principal would come over and go Howard Howard pull me out it's class I go what is it he goes it's your mom and so I go running outside and she's in The car and I'm like what are you okay you okay cuz she had terminal cancer she's going to die she goes yeah let's go and we go to the city we go to art galleries right then she take me to the Opera right
and then after the Opera we'd go get bombed at the local bar right and I mean blitzed and I'm 15 years old and I'm blitzed out of my mind and then we drive home to Long Island where we lived what I called Rodeo roll down the windows right wo like and just Cuz she wasn't worried about dying and I guess she wasn't worried about me dying either which is a little and by the way kids just to give you context on this era no seat bels either no no no just just so everybody this real
rodeo and let me give you something else that was happening on that Highway as they drove from New York like throwing the McDonald's out the window that's how we disposed it's crazy to think about some of the social norms of the 70s and Early 80s anyway nonetheless so that was it so I learn to live live every day so let me give you a hint today is the joy of life right here right now this is it you know never be depressed I had I had uh I had non Hotchkins Lymphoma I had cancer and
people would how are you I'd say I'm good cuz every day I'm alive I'm going to make sure I'm happy and I'm living my life cuz this is the joy you don't my view I learned it from my mom you don't die you lose the joy of living I I believe in that [ __ ] brother my relationship with complaining is built is built on this thesis listening to what people complain uh Dad don't be mad at me I know you always say like you give Mom all the flowers and you Raz me but this
is true there was one time that I got pushed so far with my dad being upset about dumb [ __ ] that I said to him you know Dad I mean and this is like just for context for everyone who's listening like after A million things my dad has said in his life that he's complaining about in business normally my dad is funny with business he takes everything personal I take nothing personal so you can imagine our convos but finally there was one time and I said to him I said dad you know I really
wish something bad happened to our family just so you would have something actually worth complaining about that's how visceral I am to complaining based on this thesis Everybody complains about dumb [ __ ] and then something happens in her life that's worth complaining and they get really reset correct so I learned I learned how to live for my mother yeah and then so I was always focused on living because I learned it I learned it when when I was 16 yeah you know and so formidable years lot happens in 14 to 18 so when my
dad got killed uh and the second one you lose the second one you're in hell you're literally in hell It smells like hell tastes like hell I didn't know what the hell to do yeah I mean I'm you know my sister's 20 I'm 18 I I didn't know what to do and it was a disaster everything about my life that day was a disaster the lawyers stole our money it was everything like you have kids with no one protected them and you just get shredded okay you just got shredded I didn't have any money to
begin with and whatever little money we had was shredded okay so me my sister my Brother we just live was your sister in college at that point so my sister was in college so basically he goes to boarding school near me lives with me for one year she graduates goes to grad school and then she takes him and he goes she goes to Syracuse grad school she gets a JDM MBA and uh he lives with her and graduates from the public high school right by circus so he just goes to the public high school yeah
and then he just wants to be me my brother he Just decides he wants to be me and so he joins uh he goes to Wall Street because I was working on Wall Street at the time and uh and then eventually joins me but that's the thing about my story is I I was really focused I really understood things and uh there's lots of stories about how I made it but I got all the way to the top of the world yeah let's before we go getting top of the business world and things of that
nature take me back prior to these Incredibly challenging events prior to that five you know when I think about my professional career so much was happening at 5 7 9 11 13 that I now look back on and be like oh this [ __ ] makes sense of course I [ __ ] when it snowed and everybody wanted to make a snowman I'm like trying to convince Robbie turn Guerrero Godfrey or Andy Greco or one [ __ ] kid in my neighborhood of like let's grab a [ __ ] shovel and ring every [ __
] doorbell in Edison New Jersey like of course it was in me you know obviously you had these traumatic and life-shaping events and obviously you had a mentor and your mom that you just describe about living but your mom was there obviously in those years as well were you that person at 692 and 12 before these adversities came what was seven or 10 year old Howard uh I was always figuring out how to make money yeah always so I'll give you an example I would buy a pack of baseball cards yep Okay and then I
would take all the old cards and I'd make new packs and some had one new card and some had three new cards and some had five new cards and I sold them you know so that when I sold out all these right when I sold them all out I made like 3x the pack but you took risk y you know for two cents you might get five cards which is way better well you might get one and get blown out right and so and I would sell these cards and I of course sold t-shirts Remember
the famous ones with like the the arrow I'm with you stupid like those I sold those I basically I did all these things I just hustled uh to make money all the time I used to have carnivals in my house you good or bad at school oh I was uh I was a square okay I was good at school I played I I played tennis so I was serious sports and uh and I was good my my sister uh had fun and lived a good life and my my brother just lived through like a world
of [ __ ] with my uh With my family you know and health and stuff like that and were you good at school cuz you were serious about tennis and you wanted to be on the tennis team or School came natural to you or you wanted to make your somebody proud your mom or dad or it or something altogether different I think it was they had enough they didn't need to deal with me okay I didn't want them to have to deal with me your sister your sister was having enough fun that you saw them
dealing With her and you're like [ __ ] it I just don't want them to deal yeah and they didn't have to deal with me so I was just like you know I just was fine okay it was fine and and you learn how much did the neighborhood raise you like like did you play outside a lot for I don't mean like the 50s and the 40s but like like like like were you outside constantly yeah when you were when I where I lived until uh until we moved in the sixth grade you Would just
be on the street You' be playing football on the street you'd be everyone would pick the name of some you know Dallas Cowboy or someone right and they I hope Joe nameth got a little bit of in that area and you'd yell car off the street car go by back out there sorry so that's that's the way it always was so you know and and then we moved to like more suburban suburban you know where there was no one else on the street so then you just rode your bike Anywhere and then what you would
do is you just ride your bike y right and your parents didn't have any idea where you were and never knew and you just came back my mom my mom literally had no clue where exactly I was from 1982 to 1989 she knew I was in the general vicinity but she would literally open the door and yell yeah like like full [ __ ] like out of a [ __ ] you know throwback sitcom would literally open the door and yell about lunch and then like the way It worked it was like out of a
[ __ ] Wonder Years episode she would yell and if we were more in the left direction towards Eric Godfrey then my sister's friend Denise's mom would hear it and literally open her door and then she would yell if we were up top closer to Robbie tck's house Robbie's mom Eleanor would hear it and she would yell in case we were by Bobby Duffy like it was like [ __ ] crazy and I really genuinely believe that we're trying to blame a lot Of things for where the anxiety and all this is but the over
coddling of knowing everything about your kid every second of everything where they are we were growing up like I don't know fights and getting hit by a stick and like [ __ ] reconciling [ __ ] without parents was you were learning how to function my wife has never had a minute when my kids were younger than 18 where she didn't know where they were how I'll be honest with you I'm aware of Like how modern parenting last 30 years has been how about the fact now that it extends way past 18 the amount of
people I've met who have a [ __ ] app on their 23y old to know exactly where they are physically at all times is [ __ ] up that's crazy and it it's not it makes a 23-year-old feel like they're no [ __ ] they're acting like they're five no [ __ ] they suck at work they're [ __ ] zoo animals they can't live in the jungle they're [ __ ] being tracked by their [ __ ] 59-year-old parent they're 24 [ __ ] years old they're on the payroll they're being tracked and then
you're upset that they can't stand on their own two feet no [ __ ] you created a [ __ ] bubble baby I think the neighborhood's really shaped us fair I think I didn't really think about that until just now you're right you're right you're making my childhood where my parents they had no idea who we were and we just came back at night right when it was dark I Had to come back I had to be at home within 20 minutes of dark there was there was a [ __ ] thing on all our
TVs when I was growing up that said it's 10 p.m. Do You Know Where Your Children Are Howard I just need everybody to understand this kids that's right kids under 30 if you're listening listen to me on television which remember pre- internet it was life it's the it's no phone no Internet television was life 80 million people would watch an episode of Mash at 10 p.m. there would be this like public service announcement commercial in the 80s that would come out and be like it's 10: p.m. Do You Know Where Your Children Are because we
cuz sometimes they forgot that we hadn't come home yet be a parent that's right at 10:00 be a parent try to pay attention be a parent I mean it's crazy anyway I was just curious like I really do think the east coast and listen the West Coast got their skater Surfer version of this but [ __ ] 60s 7s 880s New York New Jersey Long Island St like just that outside and it was just [ __ ] rough like I just think I really think until you get punched in the face you're not fully like
a functioning real man and I think that and that's figur Le or or oh the bus the bus was a war zone war zone war zone you go on the bus the bus driver you know my kids they have no idea we had war on the bus you have war on the back of the bus When modern bullying became a thing the last 20 years I was like oh this is sad like let me get up to date on this when I like dug under the hood I'm like Oh you mean every day of 1
to 12th grade like it's it's just we're in a very different era and it's by the way what concerns me is it's so obvious it's similar to what happened with the Roman Empire and every other Empire a lot of what Europe's shortcoming Europe has amazing strengths but a lot of its Shortcomings it's just sustained prosperity it's hard to be hungry when you're fed all right so um I talk to about the trans yeah I'm glad you so I graduate from college and uh and friend of the family connects me with Bernie caner and I get
a job okay and I get a job but educate everybody you know your in your own world tell everybody a little get J 99% of people like who ber they're looking so before I get a job I uh I have a I have a summer job and uh I Get that summer job a friend of my family gets me a summer job and uh and he he puts me in a in a company that's on Wall Street okay it's a brokerage Company on Wall Street I don't know anything about it but it gets me a
job all my friends go to Europe for uh the junior year abroad and I and I go to work so I get in apartment in the city uh by myself and I uh do like a summer sublet used to go to the The Village Voice and you look at a sublet in the Back and the classified ads I mean people don't have any idea you look at the newspaper and uh and I I get this apartment and I go to work what year is this this is uh I guess it's 80 81 kids again I
love doing this for the the audience New York's a [ __ ] [ __ ] hole just so you understand 1981 ad0 New York it's the New York you think it is like all the kids that come and intern here that are still a little bit in a bubble they're like oh New York is way less Scary than I thought 1980 New York was a [ __ ] [ __ ] hole the city was bankrupt it was a mess this is right before the Reagan thing kicked in this is like a tough New York yeah
yeah it was fun but you know so I got a job and I and I'd go uh and I go work there and I had a summer job but I stayed for the whole semester so I worked there six months and so I wanted to work I didn't want to like look at it like a movie I wanted to do the job and so I pushed to do the job And then at that point Howard just to educate me did the Wall Street gig was that like yo you go here you make money was it
was it was the brand of Wall Street epic or like where was the brand of Wall Street at that moment epic that was your way out so when you had no money all the street kids in Brooklyn the Bronx like when you think of private Equity now or the way to make big money right so you just thought W so I was just thinking but I didn't know like you Said the word Wall Street after that I had no idea right you knew that I could have been anything right Wall Street equals money but you
had no idea what the [ __ ] you could had the worst job or the best job it was just Rando whatever I did so I I I got this job and I just I just wanted to do the job and uh and I figured out that I the boss right just figure out how to get in with the boss so I just figured out how to get in with the boss I would write the boss notes Saying do this this is happening did you know this is happening and this is happening happening and at
the end of my 6 months working there the the boss calls me into his office he had never spoken to me the whole freaking six months I was there never I would send them notes and you allow to say [ __ ] on this podcast just I could sense how hard I knew I knew what I'm a guy in a suit you know I'm a guy in a su I get it but I Know who you are and I just want you to know that you found a very good place to be you can get
away with all of it go ahead all right so then um he doesn't talk to me at all the whole time and then calls me in the last day and he takes his desk out and he's got every note I wrote wow and he starts talking to me about this and this and this and this and this and this and this so it was really good epic and then he offers me a summer job next year right so I got A summer job next year so I'm cool I'm I'm golden and here's that big moment
I learned during those six months I was getting direct deposit where they put the 250 bucks a week that I was getting paid into Direct Deposit they put it right in the bank yeah right so when I go back to college right they they send me the past up and I'm like no no no I called the boss up I said no no I I I went back to school you got you got to stop it he goes you coming back this Summer I said yeah he goes ah keep it so I thought he was
giving me 250 bucks no 250 a week he kept paying me the whole semester and when I got the second check I went to the dining Center and I leaped onto the table and and I did the Hulk I was like yeah I got 250 bucks a week a week I to 198 I took girls out to restaurants I took girls to restaurants I bought gas for a car I was like the king I was the king going to restaurants 250 bucks with inflation in 1980 in the Middle of nowhere Pennsylvania I'm surprised you didn't
buy [ __ ] restaurants I it was a lot of money so it was it was so I was like the man okay cuz I hady I would I would buy all the beer for everybody it was like fine I was great and then I went back that summer so that company sells buys a division from Bernie caner okay from so so Bernie caner is like this famous industrialist guy right famous Wall Street guy uh Rockstar largest collector Of rad dan in the world you know the Thinker yeah right like he's the man there's a
Wing named after him at the Met okay and he sells a division to These Guys these are just regular Italian Guys and they and they buy the company from him and they invite me during that summer to work on that deal so I'm sort of in the room like the young guy whatever I'm just younger but I'm a pet of the boss because he likes me now right so Bernie caner sees that I'm a pet of his so they call me up and they offer me they say whatever he offers you when you graduate I'll
pay you D wow so they're offer me like 20 grand right so now I'm going to make 40 Grand going to caniford show again I need everybody to hear this 1981 or two whatever Year we're talking about 40 Grand we're talk real numbers yeah yeah that's real Mone that's like making 100 now it's like like 100 different and you know this cuz you definitely you know This better than I do but 100 now with the way everything is played out with all the money that was printed a like it's it's just I just want everybody
to know it's a lot of [ __ ] money at 22 years old in 1981 go ahead all right so I walk into caner Fitzgerald so I take the job there because they offer me double and I and I see this guy and he's a rockar and how big is the brand caner Fitzgerald at this point in Wall Street it's a great Middle Market guy meaning He's not Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley but he's like the level down right it's respected yeah and it's the number one Bond firm in the world okay so I go
in there and I'm like a big swinger and I think they love me and uh and I go see them I'm a hot guy come on I got to pay me double they love me and the guy says listen so they send me into the president's office who I've never met before yeah so he sits me down he goes listen uh we hire you because we hate The other guy and we knew you were his pet and we couldn't give a [ __ ] about you just get the [ __ ] out of my office
I love it so I walk in like I'm the big Swagger right and I walk out like he just steps on my face and push me like and I'm like we kill that I've always thought I've always thought from afar and it's fun to say this to you now that your life would be a real movie I'm so pumped I really hope that scene is in the movie cuz that's a [ __ ] epic Scene cuz I was my ego was so big and then I'm like literal roadkill like I'm the squirrel at the end
like I just got smashed actually I want to make this a learning moment for a lot of people no [ __ ] don't hyperbolize it if you don't remember you don't remember but I'm just curious Real Talk how much did it crush you like for real for real kind of just for the afternoon for a week or did you say you [ __ ] I'm going to have your job like how do you handle It actually no [ __ ] I was just I was just crushed like I I had no I didn't see it
coming you know it's was like it was like I'm like this I got the view I got the view I got the view and it just hits me like right from here in the side of the head and I was like why didn't you look that way like I had no idea was coming I was like total total like Slam by a 2x4 in the head and I was like wandering around so I'm wandering around the firm I felt like um you know like You know what like got a Seinfeld episode I'm I'm you know
I'm just just wandering around I've got the Pinsky file you know at all like nobody cares about me know so I had to go find myself a job in The Firm like literally I walked around the firm trying to find the job and they're paying me 40 Grand they don't give a crap about me I know I'm going to get fired right I'm just going to get fired they just wanted to just mess with the other guy and screw They didn't care about me I was just I was just dirt did you did you think
about finding someone to latch on to like a mentor like a person that saw value in you so this this is the first lesson okay so you go into the trading floor and the trading floor is just this vast like football field with the people okay and I said all right what what the hell am I going to do like I'm lost and what the hell am I going to do so I said all right first lesson find the winner On the floor and no one's helping me okay so no I can't ask someone who's
the winner who's this or that find the winner on the floor so I I start walking around and I'm watching y okay so I pick real quick I apologize Howard real quick kids again this is the blessing that you don't realize you have there's unlimited free [ __ ] content on the internet that will teach you absolutely everything and now with AI you can ask it and get it in a nanc this is Literally an era where you have to like do what Howard's talking about like now everything is at your [ __ ] fingertips
perfect can give you 97 answers he could have DMD a thousand firms and gone somewhere else no he had to literally walk around a [ __ ] football field and just look at humans look at human beings and try to pick the winner okay so then I try to pick who's the winners right try to sense like who's the big dog in the room and who's the winner and I walk Up to him and I ask how long it take how long were you watching three days no no I cuz if I didn't if I
didn't have a job within 48 hours I thought I was fired that's what you thought yeah cuz this guy said I don't give a crap about so you you get you you're walking around in the days for 30 minutes you re you you kind of calibrate you're like job [ __ ] I bet a good job so I go in and I'm just looking and I find a guy who I think is a winner okay I just pick okay That's a guy who's a winner because you could see other people are like listening to him
and stuff like that so I walk up to him and I say what kind of coffee you like and I just get him coffee yeah I go out and I just get him coffee right and then the first another fun thing kids good news coffees were like 12 cents back then like didn't have any of these [ __ ] [ __ ] $7 [ __ ] black coffee 25 I just went to the coffee machine no no there's no Downstairs there's no down stucks I thought this was no no it was 1980s coffee I thought
you went downstairs to the [ __ ] coffee like vendor like the hot dog guy and gave him a quarter and brought up a [ __ ] coffee I went I found them coffee over there it's Cher Cofe maches okay and then what I realized is some guys would treat me so I started doing that I picked like five people I didn't know what to do and I Just would get them coffee and I'd say look I'll do whatever you want I'll do any any chores you want anything cuz I have nothing right I have
nothing so the only thing I have to give is that's all I have to give so I'd say look uh you know but you got to take care of me and what some people would just walk by me the next day and they'd say you know black with sugar they thought I was a coffee guy of course and so and then I dropped that guy yeah cuz He's he thinks I'm the coffee guy I'm not the coffee guy he's not in and then I found someone who I liked okay and he decided he liked me
so he said he said sit down okay then I had a job he' sit down he said sit down and then that was my job Rick Chapman Rick Rick Chapman Rick Rick Chapman and Rick Chapman so and here's what he did he said where was where did Rick live uh actually in New Jersey cuz I M His lawn do you know what town I'm a jersey boy I'm actually genuinely curious I don't remember his town okay no worries go ahead I M his La I mot his lawn once cuz he said if you mow him
a lawn I'll do this for you cuz what happened is he became transactional yeah which is so which is a [ __ ] gift for you oh it was that was the greatest thing that ever [ __ ] happened CU what was I doing I was buying an educ in exchange for energy it's great right so I would mow his lawn I pick up his dry cleaning I get his car washed but what he did was he called his best client and he said you go get your young guy pick your favorite young guy I'm
going to bring my young guy and we're going to go out to dinner huge and he takes me out to dinner and I tell you what Rick uh his client when he was retired called me up and said you know he sure could buy a steak right cuz he's buying it on his you know remember you had great you had A great expense account then you got out to like really nice restaurants by really good wine so he takes out me and restaurant so you must have loved oh yeah loved it but I knew okay
there's a 23-year-old on the other side he's mine okay I'm going to be his best friend love okay I'm going to be his best friend and I was just his best friend no matter what okay no matter what so I said to him when you trade someday you're going to trade cuz He's at a client it was called Solomon Brothers was bought by City Bank so it's part of City Bank and they were the best traders in the world I said when you trade you got to call me just ask for me just give me
and I'm his best friend and I'm following him around I'm buying beers and you know on Saturday night and stuff I just go out with them like I'm I'm his bestie and and that's when I learned to cut the line because what happened is on Solomon Brothers line the top guy Rick okay he's got a Mercedes yep right the next guy's got a Chevy y the next guy's online online online and when you want the Mercedes you're going to be 46 right you're just online and this guy's going retire you move up up but I
said to the 25-year-old call me so he gets the he gets the call to start trading right and he picks up the phone to can oford Gerald which is the place you trade he says I want Howard and this guy stands Up and and this giant trading floor goes who the hell is Howard and I'm like me me I'm Howard and I literally go running across the trading floor right and pick up the phone for Peter Hirsch okay and Peter hir does my first trade and I just blew past this guy and this guy and
this guy I'm now second or third in line right where I should have a Chevy right and I'm on his phone trading with Peter hsh because I worked him from the day I met him y he ends up becoming the boss Of sale of all trading at Solon Brothers cuz he was a winner and that was lucky right he but his favorite guy he picked the favorite guy and I picked favorite guy you're talking about the single variable of business that people don't talk enough about I have 45 Peter herses to your point of luck
I have 157 people that I thought were going to be Peter hirs that didn't end up being Peter hirsh but net net here's a news alert you just need one or two let alone 45 Correct so I had so I just worked it so that he introduced me and then that created me cutting the line and other things I would do i' go to uh I go to bar and I with my friends right so I'm I'm well dressed cuz I work on Wall Street and you go to the bar at night with your friends
and I go to like Brother Jimmy's IDE right it's like your feet the barbecue I know yeah your feet stick to the floor and I would walk around find other people well-dressed And ask them where they worked and buy them a beer and and and my friends were like what what are you doing and I'd say I don't know anybody I need to meet people I don't know anybody so I'd meet a guy and he said he's in advertising I go you any friends who work on Wall Street he goes yeah yeah Chuck works on
yeah he works Goldman he goes hey Chuck this idiot wants to buy us a beer if you say hello to him and I'm like fine I just buy him a beer so one of those Happened I met one of those guys he worked at Leman Brothers by the way every firm I talk about they're all I'm so old they're all out of business like every firm is coming G you know but I'm 48 and I know all these icon firms when I was building the wine business these were all my customers so this guy works
at Lan Bros and uh that that company that uh these guys bought from Bernie caner it's going public and Bernie caner is really interested in it and leman's Doing the deal so I asked my friend who I met at Brother Jimmy's just buying him a beer I said can you get me the that you know the early draft of the document CU my boss would really like to read it he says well you know it's it's secret but it's an early draft I mean it's not illegal or anything it's just an early draft the company
doesn't want you to see them undressed before they're ready and all you know set to go and so he drops it off to me at 6 o'clock at night Says I just need it 6 a.m. in the morning and I go to my my boss's Bernie Ker's house and I and I give it to him he goes where did you get this I go I know people who did I know I knew the one guy I met him at Brother Jimmy's but I bought him a beer and that's how like so Bernie caner thinks oh
this kid he he knows people he's working it you know I was always I was always working energy is the right answer Howard you know it's funny I don't use that word uh but it's The answer right like when I think about that story from Canter's angle like it's it's who I was and it's what I'm attracted to when I see it in others it's it's not super complicated it's what coaches appreciate in athletes it's just [ __ ] life like effort is a fascinating variable in the game I it's it's just so goddamn obvious
who [ __ ] wants it yeah so people think you need to be really smart to be successful and and what I say is you just need to be Really clever yeah okay if you're really clever and I would argue that clever well to your but I would say that's semantics cuz what you're actually saying I think correct me I'm wrong and it's funny I use clever a lot I think you're talking about kind of like the way art you know we're we're in enough of a similar era like we grew up unlike the kids
today where like what college you went to and what your grades were were the binary indicator of your Horsepower and you and I grew up in a little bit brother can you do me a favor actually I really want this would make me happy you were good at school but can you grab that top can you grab that are you transcript this is my this is my report card I just want you to look at it while I say this and then we'll go back to you like like I I it's bad yeah show the
ladies you suck yeah wow look at the bottom look at my class rank I think I think it depends That is hysterical it depends on how it depends on how you define smart right like you know for me one of the things you could put anywhere one of the things that was very obvious about this and I want every kid to hear this people skills man if you could tell me can I be great at memorizing [ __ ] for a test to get an A or have outrageous people skills it's a [ __ ]
thousand to zero in the favor of people skills yeah like right like like it's it depends on what Is Smart clever to me is just slang for being smart about the actual [ __ ] that [ __ ] matters humans you're you're smart about people which is what matters right so if you can get someone who's smart and clever game over then game over that that's that's what a billionaire is okay a billionaire just has both those things they don't have you can make huge amounts of money with one yeah and you're a professor with
the other right if you're super smart you're Definitely a professor yep okay cuz you're super super super smart but you don't have the other parts have you had both oh it's another world let's keep going on this story because it's is a lot of fun where do the next Tipping Point happen in your career I have a a an idiosyncrasy in my life which is I'm a reader okay I mean I have to read the thing I have to read the thing it's now the bane of my existence mean I can't sign the end of
a document without Reading every freaking word this is probably why good at school right because reading comprehension such a variable in that game and So you you're you have very strong reading comprehension yeah really strong that's like I if I listen to something or see something I will never forget it if I read it it doesn't [ __ ] even M I have none so when I read the reverse when I read something It Go something bad is in the document it comes on me like it's in Me it's physical when I read it it's
physically on me so like I could be read and I'm angry like it's making me angry and someone's looking at me why why you so angry go you should see what this says and they're like what what it says why would that make you angry I'm like the intent that's just the way it is so you know so I A friend of mine mentions something to me that there's this uh there's this Railroad and and the railroad uh when The United States of America was being built in 1897 the United States of America decided they
wanted to industrialize the country and it took by eminent domain it just took people's land and it brilliantly built the Northern Pacific railroad that went from the Atlantic to the Pacific and the Southern Pacific Railroad that went from the right and it just built railroads across the country War yep and and I and the guy mentioned He goes you know this land is probably worth a fortune so I go I go to the library and you do microfish which basically was like a a negative and you put it on like a light box and you
read it I mean now you just go to an iPad and look it up like like this but then you had to go dig it so I dig up the the deal and I find that all this land Union Pacific station Philly Union Pacific Station San Francisco Chicago and all the mineral Rights going all across Montana all the way through all this land is in this company called Burlington Northern and they got it for free and they issued $150 million wor a bonds and by the way if you want to understand interest rates in 18
1997 they issued 3% Bonds doing 100 years and 4% Bonds doing 150 years so interest rates have been between 3 and 4% for fraking 130 years so when people oh aren't they so high you're like no this is like ordinary what about 1980 when you started your career they were double digit 14 16 so I go to Bernie caner right I walk into his office right so he doesn't really know me right but I'm I'm like just doing this stuff how many years caner are you I'm 25 so still [ __ ] early as [
__ ] three years and I go okay here's my idea here's my idea we take over Burlington Northern it's it's about $4 billion okay then we we sell the railroad okay for like three billion and we'll lose a Billion and then we'll have this all this land and I my genius 25-year-old self who has done absolutely no work and hasn't called a single freaking person okay so I have no I say this land is easily worth $4 billion okay cuz it's all this land the middle rights $4 billion and and we make 3 billion what
do you say what do you think he says he goes get the hell out of my office am I'm listening to you so I keep at it every day I pound on him and ultimately He gives me 2 million doll to invest so I buy these bonds interest rates are 12% and I and I buy them for like 63 cents on the dollar because 3% if you buy it cheaper the math is you get your 12% okay because you bought it cheaper and they go up in value over time so whatever so I buy $2
million worth but I'm not the only one who knows this the chairman of Burlington Northern announces he's going to retire and he's GNA take the land out of this trust Which I read about okay and he's going to put 300 million in US treasuries in and take the land out okay but I read the documents and I know what the what the documents say and I also when I was planning this I called all the bond holders I knew every Bond holders name because I wanted to control the land to do this whole deal with
Bernie caner that I made up on my own and no video so no one knows it's a 25-year-old making the calls right so then I say he can't Do it so I call all the bond holders I say give me your proxy I hire a [ __ ] lawyer okay I don't know anybody I hire some lawyer and we write a snarky letter to burli noron saying you can't you can't take the land it's in trust you just can't touch it general counsel of Burlington Northern calls me on the phone he says what do you
got I go I got $2 million worth the bonds I bought at 63 he goes all right here's the deal I'll give you 2 million Bucks you keep your fraking bonds I want to take the land and then and then because he's going to put treasuries behind it the Bond's going to go up to 2 and A5 million so I'm going to make $25 million on a $2 million investment in six months no risk doua bonds no no one's ever made any money on doua bonds they move like a tortoise running across the you say
this baby's going to run across the Street right there's no money in it so I walk into Bernie K's office said now you believe me I just made two and a half million bucks on a $2 million investment in six months no risk they just paid for land now to Bernie Ker's credit he says all right what do you think I should do I said let's they're going to split this land off this land's worth of Fortune I told you it's worth $4 billion I'm still making it up okay I still haven't called a single
Person he gives me 100 million to invest he buys a 100 million at Burlington Northern stock they announced they're going to split the company into two Burlington Northern the railroad and Burlington resources the land Dupont comes in and pays $6 billion for the land the stock goes up doubles right as it's doubling he sells as fast as he can he makes $100 million okay and he gives me a bonus of $1 Million 25 years old my friends were like he made a hundred million you only got a million I'm like what do you got what
you what do you got I got $1,250 bonus how about I get a million I just need everybody understand this is 1983 now for no this is uh 86 I'm 25 I I again I'm just sad because money got weird because we just printed a fuckload of it in the last 20 years and that's the answer by the way all inflation is com you just do not understand how much A million [ __ ] dollars is in 1986 like a 100,000 a year in 1986 is Prof L wealthy the way you think of someone who
makes 2 to 5 million a year now it is that big of a Delta you don't understand right so that's insane can I say one thing to the three of you I have bad news I like actually am a businessman for a living and have a hard stop in 10 minutes so I have bad news we're going to have to do part two we're only at 20 how old are you 25 No no right now 63 yeah we're only at [ __ ] 25 so fans I know I just want you to know there's going
to be a part two if I have to go somewhere you come back because I want to keep this going but I'm not going to be able to so like okay go ahead all right so then we haven't even gotten to like all right anything yet okay just everybody knows now it's going be like [ __ ] Star Wars we're have to do three episodes but now I'm a rock star okay a massive rockar Rockar so now I it's 1986 too so the Reagan thing's in full effect New York's out of control it went from
a [ __ ] hole to really becoming what the precursor to what New York is now you must be out of control so then there's a stock market crashing 87 right October Black Friday right stock market crash in ' 87 actually I don't want to skip over that so you make this massive Sitch in 86 you're like rolling now you're like envisioning everything correct world Domination how big of a like how much did you get [ __ ] because you might have not cuz it might have not I get [ __ ] and so Black
Friday you weren't in a situation where that really destroyed you but did it scare you of like oh wait a minute it's not always just up up and up I might like was that something you took note of all right so here's our okay so in April of 87 of 87 right because it happened in October interest rates Interest rates start leaping okay they go up 100 basis points in 87 1% up and they're going up up up up up and I'm thinking this baby's going to crash this baby being what the the Market's going
to crash Market the stock market's going to crash I go to everybody say short the market short the market short the market so I and the firm won't let me short the market cuz who who am I I'm nobody so they're not letting me do anything right so I can't do anything so I start Borrowing money from everybody I know to short the market Jesus Christ okay May June July I borrow money from my grandfather which bad news if you can't pay back and I borrow from everybody okay and the market keeps going up and
you don't remember but in August of 87 the market hits absolutely new highs and I am absolutely completely and totally broken every way all the money's gone everything's gone I bet it all interest rates are flying I'm saying this baby's Going to crash and it's hitting new highs new highs and I am broke and I had borrowed money from everybody in short itte stock market breaks in October all right but that's the way the world works right it comes after you go broke but one friend of mine I borred money from him and he was
a stock broker in California and he bought options that matured at the end of October and he hit and I and it hit and I earned enough money to pay everybody back and I lost All mine but imagine I borrow 10,000 bucks from you and I walk in after it crashes and I go huge I give you 10 you're like oh Howard you killed it meanwhile I had to go back to my grandfather borrow money to pay rent and you know when you go to your grandfather and say I need money to pay rent that
is really painful so because did you that million bucks you made in ' 86 you you invested it bet I no I bet it I bet it cuz I was definitely a break and I was Completely right but the moral of that story is timing is everything timing is everything so I was I was busted but then I do another one in 1988 where Interstate banking comes so a friend of mine tells me that Interstate banking outside basically you could only be a state remember City Bank was New York City Bank because you could only
be in New York that's right right you could only be state by state and then we're going to break that up so Pennsylvania Says okay we're going to let Outsiders in in a year so I figure out okay why don't we buy a crappy Pennsylvania bank that's got nice locations it'll definitely get acquired so I go to Bernie caner and I said okay here's my idea and this time he just mess around he goes all right let's go let's go so 1988 he says let's go not only does he put a 100 million in but
he tells all his buddies because you know when you're a rich guy you want to do so he puts all His buddies in for 50 million bucks and we buy this company called first Pennsylvania six months later it gets bought by Gerard National Bank for 12 we pay six buys it for 12 Bank of New York comes in uh right after Interstate Bank comes and buys it for 18 6 12 18 we go up straight up triples his money he makes 300 but he put up 100 he gets 300 bucks he's a profit of 200
guess what he gives me two bucks and now I got money again he's back I got money back so Basically I got money again and I I got money again and now okay he liked me the first time I made him money he loved you the second time now he's loving me okay now whatever I now I'm I'm very aware why Steve Ross likes me when you start putting up more than one win it matters that's what happens so now he loves me and now it's 1988 and now I'm on fire in The Firm so
I I'm managing his money I'm managing all his friends money doing every beted I want I'm making my income starts to double okay so if you look back at me beginning with 40 Grand then I made 80 grand then I made 160 Grand 320 650 a million3 now if you keep going you know if you double and double and double so now I'm making like my normal job I'm making millions a year Millions a year plus I did this for this extra and Bernie Ker's in love with me right he's in love with me and
Bernie at this time so he dies at uh he dies in 1996 at 79 So uh you know he's in his mid-70s yeah his mid-70s and and he's in love with me I I become like his I'm totally and now I'm not the kitchen cabinet right 1991 fires the president of the company the guy who told me your road kill that dude yeah and he says and he promotes me at the age of 29 I become the president of the company wow and uh so I'm the president of the company we're growing the company's on
fire it's growing it's rocking and then um 1986 right so the deal is in the company is I hire everybody like it's like you're hiring everybody and everyone says okay what happens if something happens to Bernie you know Bernie caner is like the owner of what happens and it's like I control the company if something happens to him and so if dies it's me and you'd say cool all right you're hiring me I'm cool with that he goes on life support and his wife decides she's going to try to sell the Company and so we
have a giant fight and I go to my lawyer what do we do he goes let's not snatch defeat from the jaws of Victory you have a straight flush just do nothing she hires uh kex this big PR Company and I get a call on Friday night we have a big court date coming and on Friday night I get a call from the New York Times this woman named Diana Enriquez and uh and she says uh listen I've been working with text for three weeks and I'm going to write the Rippest story that you're an
[ __ ] and uh do you want to talk to me or not you're the cover of Sunday's New York Times business section what what year is this 89 this is no no now we're all the way up to 96 just so everybody knows even though the internet is out in '96 like it's the 1996 internet which is like it's still fairly small and like this business like this is the punchline of the like every single person of any kind of anything in the business Universe in the world let alone America reads the Sunday business
section this is a big deal right so I decide you know what screw it I'll talk to her smart so I sit down with her and talk to her and she writes a story with Partners like these who needs Rivals right her picture my picture and Bernie Ker's picture like gigantic he's on life support yep anyway I I win the case in every possible way and I buy her out and then my son is six days old okay and I hold him up in Delaware I'm in Delaware where we settle and I buy her out
and it's over the company is now my company forever forever it's my company and I hold my new son up like Simba I'm like hey get you know like like you know that's it and I'm like you have no I look at my little boy and I 6 days old like you have no idea what a good day you just had you he just hit it and so then that was the day the firm was mine wow okay and Then I went and hired everybody we loved because the rule was if it's my firm I'm
only going to work with people that we like that's the rule of the I make that the rule of the company and we work with everybody we like so I say it this way we all have the same rainbow friends now think about your friends think on this side smart capable you know the wiers and the ones on this side crazy make you laugh at a bar harder than anybody else but you a little and I'd say just hire These yeah the first and that's my firm we hire so my brother joins my best friend
joins my my college roommate's brother went to Harvard Business School he runs banking everybody I hire everybody I love but I make that the rule not for me of course for everybody so every the security guard hires so I don't have to worry about them you know if one of them has to go to a wedding the other guy fills in you know it's just family business that's the firm Family that's located on the 101st to the 105th floor of the World Trade Center the planet a [ __ ] building and all my friends get
killed I lose my brother he's 36 lose my best friend Doug he's 39 I lose my best friend's brother I lose everybody everybody but everybody loses everybody everybody loses every it's like he's like look at this office right and say okay everybody dies yeah okay and and you taking I was Taking my son in his first day of kindergarten that's it that same son I'm in his first day of kindergarten so I race to the building I race to the building and I get to the door of the building because I'm just trying to grab
people what time did you go to the office prior to first day of 7:30 yeah the show is on all right your show is on okay at 8:48 the show is on everybody who matters on September 11th is in the office without a holiday there's no Reason to be out everybody's there just it was my first day of kindergarten for Harse man my best friend Doug his kid goes to Riverdale and he dies because it's not his first day of school everybody dies everybody's dead and you know I I get to the building you know
I can head right to the building right away my phone keeps ringing as it turns out my phone kept ringing I kept picking up as a flip phone and it was no connection it was my Brother calling so I get my sister on the phone when I'm going downtown cuz someone they tell me a plane hit the building but I don't know I haven't seen it right they say planted the building I fig it's like some stupid Piper Cub some guy CLI the building idiot so I tell my driver I said just go to Fifth
Avenue cuz you can see I know you can see the building the soonest and there just flame just smoke is just pouring out of the place and he starts crying I said Let's just get there let's just get there and uh you know I get my sister on the phone and and uh she said I spoke to Gary my brother and and I said oh what' you say she goes I got him on the phone and and and he called and I said well thank God you're not there he goes I am there I'm calling
to say goodbye I'm going to die Smoke's pouring in there's no way out there's nowhere to go I'm just saying goodbye I got to die I tried to call Howard I can't get through to Him just tell them I love him I'm sorry that's it that's it so so so I just go to the building and I'm just hoping people can get out I'm just hoping some way there's people to get out but I know they're all in there and I know there's nothing they can do and then I'm standing at the doorway of the
building I'm grabbing people ask asking what floor they came on and uh you know when the highest floor I get to is like 90 92 and then I hear the sound it's the Loudest sound I ever heard in my life it's like it's like Titanic remember the movie when the when it breaks in half that's the sound I I don't know what the hell's going on so I start running I got my suit and tie on right my shoes on and I'm running as hard as I can from nothing I have no idea what's going
on I'm just running my ass off and I look over my shoulder and a black tornadoes chasing me you saw that smoke sort of rolling and I'm running as hard as I can And this tornado is chasing me and then the tornado comes across this way and I see the tornado coming so I dive under a car and I hold my head like this and it just goes whoosh and then the world is black and silent and I didn't I'm not clever enough to put something over my mouth I have no idea what's going on
I'm thinking son of a [ __ ] I was Uptown and I was safe now I'm gonna die I'm gonna die because it's think about it it's Black and I'm holding my breath I'm like I can't believe I'm going to die I said actually I can't hear any sound I'm dead this is dead I can't hear any noise I'm outside it's dead silent so I take my fingers and I go like this I stab because I can't see my eyes are open and it's black and I stab myself in the eyes I'm my God I
go okay okay I'm blind and deaf but I'm alive so I stand up of course I'm hiding under a car smashed the livel Out of my head now I'm bleeding off the side of my head self-inflicted so I climb out from under the car and I get up and it's pitch black so what's the first thing I do I start running but of course I'm running to pitch black so what do way hit park car you go flying over some park car so now I'm bleeding I'm limping but all self- induced right and then I
realize okay okay so now I'm walking like this in the dark and then I see a flashlight so I walk to the Flashlight and there's a cop holding the flashlight just holding up like this so I put my hand on the back of his collar said let's get the hell out of here and he sits down he just sits down CU he's in shock cuz the thing went right through him of course and so I give me that so I grabbed the flashlight out of the guy's hand and now I'm walking my flashlight I find
a a like a uh I think it was like a coffee Republic you know some cfee shop that's blown to Smither And I go in and I find a bottle of water and there's a paper towels so I take the paper towels and then I put the paper towels under my arm so I got giant flashlight got the paper towels right I got a bottle of water I start walking as the smoke starts to clear gets lower and lower and lower my driver jumps on me from behind me he's like Mr Le you're alive you're
alive I can't believe you're alive because he was a he's a retired detective and he goes you're Live and I turn around he goes what do they give rich people like flashlights and water he's like who gets flashlight water like where did you get this stuff and uh and then we walked up town we just walked up town knowing that they were all there well um I'm sure everybody was moved as much as everybody in this room I uh I really beg that we can do part two of this sure I thank you thanks man
we'll see you next time on part two see you soon [Music]
