DPAC it's common knowledge uh in medicine that the mind has a very strong interaction uh with the immune system with our sense of well-being and over time this has become even more part of core Western medicine how do you reflect on this something that you've worked on very uh intensely with uh many different people but also in the scientific Community terms of how the the mind can actually heal and help the body first of all Robert in the deeper domains of Consciousness mind and body are the same thing mind is the subjective experience of Consciousness
and the body is the objective experience of Consciousness okay and I experience them both in Consciousness where do I experience my mind as thoughts feelings emotions in my Consciousness where do I experience my body as this solid object which it isn't by the way in consci ious okay so there are different modes of experiencing Consciousness yes in in in in the western systems of thought systems of thought scientific systems of thought there's been a separation between the mind and the body the classic cartisian dualism however if you talk to scientists these days they don't believe
in the classic cartisian dualism they believe in what they say uh is um uh non-dualism but of course they have different interpretations of their dualism so the materialist say there's only matter and the the other people say there's only mind well I'm saying there's neither okay they experi you're not saying there's both you're saying there's not neither yeah there's neither it's it's Consciousness okay now if you look at the word healing it's a very interesting word etymologically healing Health wholeness so in my view it's how you define healing healing is the return of the memory
of wholeness it's a shift in identity ultimately from a skin encapsulated ego identity to the enlightened identity ultimately it's a state of primordial being in that state of primordial being there's self-repair self-organization self Evolution all the attributes of Consciousness and so yes a movement in the direction of wholeness Will Repair the body okay may not repair it completely but you know it's a healing in fact as a physician you don't use the word healing I'm a physician I trained in Internal Medicine Endocrinology neuroscience not Neuroscience in the classical sense but neuroendocrinology so if I use
the word healing you're a charlatan okay you doctors don't heal they practice and they keep practicing or they treat but they never heal but it's true now we've known for 30 years that when people are stressed they have high cortisol levels they have high adrenaline and their platelets get sticky because these are little platelets in their fragmented conscious ious n they're huddling together in their fright and they give you a heart attack because they clog so you look at it from a Consciousness perspective healing is the most fundamental experience unless you're born with a congenital
defect or something you're already healed you're whole you have not started the mistake of the intellect that separates your mind from the body it's a state of homeostasis homeostasis is a state of dynamic non change in the midst of change and it's a fundamental state so yes it's not that the Mind heals the body when you get out of the way of both the mind and the body they both heal themselves but it has to go through the immune system and white cells and and the endocrine system which those are the metabolic pathways that we
map out to symbolically represent a return to wholeness okay but but those are caus positive in the process right I mean if you didn't have that you wouldn't have the result on one level yes on another level metaphor on one level yes you need the the self-repair mechanisms the imuno modulation the homeostasis to to to kick in so how does that happen how does that happen if you want to look at it on a very simple level when your mind is agit agitated your body is agitated because they're both the same thing okay your mental
activity is turbulent your body gets turbulent your mental activity is inflamed hostility anger guilt shame your body gets inflamed okay that's on a one level your mental activity is one of Peace then the body gets quietened because the mind is quietened okay and then the self-repair mechanisms come in uh love not love as a mere emotion but love as the fundamental truth that there's no separation that fundamental experience of Love which people now call unconditional love and they give all kinds of names to it but love is not a mere sentiment or an emotion it's
the ultimate truth at the heart of creation that there are no boundaries when you experience that then again self-repair mechanisms kick in so yes we can physiologically map this and we're going to map this we we just finished and awarded a prize at our foundation to someone who showed that within four days of meditation Tas which is an enzyme that controls basically a biological clock because it controls the length of tilers went up 40% in 4 days and the scientists couldn't believe it these are scientists from UCSD UCSF and Harvard collaborating they had to repeat
the experiment many many times to convince themselves that these results were true and now one of the scientists doing the entire genome um in in the same blood samples 4 days after meditation we've saved the blood samples to see a genetic activity because genes are not fixed structures genes are activities in Consciousness a gene is not a noun it's a verb it's a happening in Consciousness so as we look to the Future how important is the the mind to the body is the there something that is absolutely Central to uh medical practices I think we
have to redefine what healing means we have to redefine what health means we have to redefine um because you know you can be physically healed and still have the fear of death and live miserably right in fear agitation is that healing I don't think so you can be physically having a terminal illness and come to peace with your mortality because you know there's an aspect of existence that is Immortal and you know as the Sufi say I'm not just a drop in the ocean I'm also the ocean in the drop okay so I can shift
to that identity you have to redefine what healing is and we have to take the best technology and understanding of science to somehow bring them together to I don't you see science is never going to go away nor is the yearning for meaning which is a very spiritual thing okay which is a religious experience not defined as religious then neither going to go away so forever and so it's might as well bring them together to destroy the world or bring them together to heal the world and I think that's possible we will have technologies that
will be biosensors digital Technologies where you can take your smartphone put it to your heart have your EKG read by a computer and the treatment delivered remotely I think that'll happen I think we'll be able to seed galaxies with the human genome using remote control technology we'll email the information remote control technology use Stardust to reproduce ourselves in other Galactic systems but that'll happen but it'll only happen if you bring Consciousness and Technology together
