Concall of TIL Limited_Q4 FY2024-2025

To the TIL limited Q4 and FI25 earnings conference call hosted by EN LLB. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listenon mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation conclude. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star 10 on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand The conference over to Mr. Dewakar Pinglay from ENY LLP. Thank you and over to you sir. Uh thank you man. Uh good evening everyone. Welcome to the

quarter 4 and FI25 earnings call of PI Limited to discuss the performance of the company and to answer the questions we have with us from the company. Mr. Silk Kumar Chhatrui chairman and managing director Mr. Ayan Banerjeri uh director of finance Mr. Alukumati director and president Mr. Kay Gupta chief financial officer and Mr. running strategy the company secretary before we begin I would like to draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may contain forward looking as a subject to various uncertainties and other factors which will be beyond management control we kindly request you

that you bear in mind there may be uncertainties when interpreting such statements we will now start the session With opening remarks from management team afterwards we will throw open the floor for interactive Q&A session with that said I'd like to uh invite Mr. Mr. Kumari to make his opening remarks. Over to you sir. Thank you Dakar and uh good evening everyone. Uh it's a privilege to see you all join this maiden call under the new management of TIL. Uh I want to introduce right at the Beginning one more member who has joined us. He's our

chief operating officer Mr. Pinaki Nyogi. He he's also the chief technology officer of TIA. Uh as you all know uh we are discussing today uh financial and business performance for the quarter as well as for the full year ended 31st March 2025. It has been an extremely meaningful year for the new management as well as for the company as a Whole. We are a leading manufacturer or of uh material handling and infrastructure equipment manufacturer. Uh PIL is known for its durable high-quality products, for its innovative designs and for skilled craftsmanship. PIL has been specializing in

products such as defense equipment, a wide variety of cranes, reach stackers, container handlings and forklift trucks, and we are expanding the range now. For over eight decades, our company has both Observed and significantly influenced the development of the nation's infrastructure landscape. This involvement of TIL is marked by our manufacturing excellence and unparalleled service network and strategic partnerships. These attributes have enabled us to provide an exceptional and a diverse range of products and services across the material handling infrastructure and construction sector Equipment. Our clients today include prestigious organizations such as Bharat Dynamics, VEL, BML, Indian Army,

Oil and Natural Gas Commission, Coal India, Reliance, Tadaskki, Adani and NTPC as well as uh Indian Air Force and many many others prestigious customers. We have formed key global alliances with industry leaders such as many to walk uh one of the largest lifting equipment company from the US uh and they are a world leader in mobile crane Manufacturing. We also have a running partnership a tie up with Heista Jail uh again an American company which is renowned for reach stackers big forklifts and warehousing solutions. In FY25, we have renewed our dealer sales and service agreement

with Highstead Gail Asia Pacific for another five years. A similarly uh you know uh redone re redoing of our agreement with Manito is on the cards where we are now finalizing the agreement in terms of a Much more expanded product range and it will be signed soon. Additionally, we have partnered with Snorkel of Europe to become the official sales and service partner for their aerial work platforms in Southeast Asia. These strategic partnerships strengthen our market presence and enable us to offer innovative solutions to our customers. The fiscal year of 2025 uh ladies and gentlemen has

been a transformative Period particularly following the acquisition by the Enel group and the appointment of new management in FY24. Most of you would remember that we had changed all almost all the KMPs in fact all the KMPs as well as all six members of the board. Our total revenue for financial year 2025 reached uh INR 343 crores reflecting an impressive growth of four times over financial year 2024. This is also the highest revenue in last 5 years time. This success demonstrates our ability to execute large strategic vision, our strategic vision effectively and we have just

begun. It will be a multi-year program for our full implementation. We have successfully addressed the financial and operational challenges and capitalized on the synergy between PIL and some of the Janewell group companies. We have meticulously managed operational expenses through cost optimization initiatives maintaining product quality and service excellence. This has resulted in an AITA of INR approximately 40 crores for financial year 2025 compared to a negative AITA of 74 crores in FY24. This is also the highest AITA achieved in last five years time for the last six years time in the company. Uh as you know

we are Headquartered in Kolkata and we are supported by a fan India service network and with regional offices in Chennai in Mumbai which is a new office opened Delhi and Singeri. PIL is also able to provide ex exceptional aftermarket support and ensure customer centric solutions. One of the reasons why Mr. Aloo Pipati is here on the board of the company as director and CEO is because because for for the Gainwell group for Gainwell Commerce he was holding uh the Portfolio of national product support here and we thought the best would be to bring him as

the in the in the captain's seat in TIA and already we are seeing aftermarket uh entire dispensation taking shape and improvements happening As you know, we operate two strategically located cutting edge manufacturing facilities in the eastern east side of the country complemented by sophisticated warehousing complexes. The Kamarati facility in Kolkata or near Kolkata is is India's only integrated mobile crane manufacturing site which includes an assembly line for cranes with capacities ranging from 10 to 100 tons. The Kalakpur plant is an ERP enabled modern plant with an assembly line capable of manufacturing cranes with a capacity

of over 150 tons. We have installed a one 1 megawatt solar plant in this facility that meets approximately 90% of the plant's energy Needs enhancing financial efficiency while prioritizing environmental protection. We are undertaking a capacity utilization project in partnership with IIM Mumbai which used to be earlier known as NITI MI TIE Mumbai to identify and analyze core and supporting processes within the manufacturing workflow uh and to assess their impact on the overall manufacturing costs. We have to Optimize our cost and we are consciously working towards that. Consequently, in financial year 2025, rough terrain cranes which

were previously exclusively manufactured in Kamarhati are now also being produced at Kamarhati at Karakur facility. Numerous new opportunities are also being invest in investigated to enhance optimal capacity utilization at Karakur plant which is a large facility. Our product portfolio, ladies and gentlemen, it it Encompasses the TIL range, Manitook range, Heistar range and snorkel range of products. We sold 242 machines this year, compared to 58 machines in the financial year 2024, marking the second highest number of machines manufactured in so and sold in company's last 10 years of history. We are proud to have recently rolled

out the 400th Ker TIL reach taker from our Kuru plant and we are very proud of reaching this milestone of 400. We continue to expand our products and categories. In financial year 2025, we introduced the snorkel A62 JRT into India's aerial work platform market and then recently made new heist til highcapacity forklift trucks and empty container handlers available in India. Over the next two years, TIL plans to introduce five to six new product ranges for the non-defense sector while collaborating with defense agencies on various initiatives. Uh across the board in in navy, army and air

force. In financial year 2025, TIL returned to Bomar Expo India under Gainwell Group showcasing technological capabilities and commitments to make in India. DIL currently has an active fleet of around 3,000 machines in the market in alignment with the national initiatives such as make in India and atar bat and along with government of India's increased focus and investment in infrastructure, real estate, Construction and defense. Our company is very well positioned to address the growing demand for material handling and infrastructure equipment. rapid urbanization, a booming construction sector, rise of global trade and e-commerce, and the government's commitment

to import substitution and export promotion. These are all the features that support our growth in this Evolving market landscape. Our recent performance marks the beginning of a significant turnaround unfolding. Looking ahead, our advanced manufacturing capabilities, strategic global partnerships and comprehensive service support have reinforced our position in India's infrastructure development with a positive market sentiment. We plan to introduce new products and you will get to see the Market will get to see many of them in in coming quarters. We want to refresh our product lines with latest technology and expand our product operation export operations into

regions including Asia Pacific, Southeast Asia, Australia and New Zealand. Our commitment is to leverage growth opportunities in both domestic as well as international markets while maximizing shareholders value and ensuring robust performance. Thank you for your steadfast support and trust in TIL which has seen it through some of the most difficult times in our history. Thank you very much. With that I will hand over to Mr. Kaya Gupta our CFO who will take us through the highlights of the financial performance. Over to you Kanea. Thank you sir and good evening everyone. So this year our company

recorded the highest revenue in the last 5 years. For financial year 25, our standalone total revenue reached INR 343 cr which is reflecting a 398% increase over financial year 24. The financial year 25 stood at an INR 40 cr compared to a negative 74 cr in the previous fiscal year. This also marks the highest aid achieved over the last 6 years. The AITA margin for the year was 11.73% become positive for the first time in the last 6 years. Our net back stood at 92.9 cr and the EPS also become positive for the First time

in the last 6 years. Now we come to the quarterly performance of the company on the quarterly basis. In quarter 4 25 total revenue reach 111 cr 240.4% 4% increase of year on year and 34% increase on quarter to quarter. Aida follow quarter stand at 21.5 cr up from a negative minus 27 cr in quarter 4 2024 and a 231% increase quarter and quarter. Our quarterly pack stood at 9.8 cr. This strong annual and quarterly Financial performance was driven by ongoing project training expansion, process optimization efforts and operational expansion. The improvement in productivity metrics was

due to operational performance and improved capacity utilizations. Additionally, we have also managed our working capital efficiently reducing the inventory days to 227 days in financial year 25 from 1061 days in 2024. So this position users for the strong growth in the industry reflecting our commitment to operational excellence. We are confident in maintaining this momentum and delivering value to the stakeholders. With this I would like to thank you for your continued support and we can we can now open the floor for all questions and answers. Thank you very much sir. We will now begin the question

and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a Question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from line of Muskan Lada from Maraki Investments. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes, please. We can hear you. Yeah, thank you and congratulation on good set of set of numbers. So firstly I want to understand where

do the source critical component such as engine excels and hydraulic system like what percentage of fabrication is in how and basic basically want to get an idea on how that what integrated we are. Uh I will let answer this. He's the chief technology officer the person who is responsible for this. Ma'am ma'am to answer your question uh we don't have one particular source for all our model for example most of our uh engines we source from cumins we also source engines from ashoken for a smaller horsepower for a for a lower horsepower engines we also

have a few machines where the engines are Volvo uh which are also made in India so Ashokand Cummins as well as Volvo these are the main supplier of engines and except for a very high horsepower application which Is for our container handling application all the engines are manufactured in India. This is as far as the engines are concerned as far as the hydraulic systems are concerned. Um there are there are suppliers like Parker, Danfos and Rex. These are the three major supplier for our hydraulic components. And if you consider cylinders also a part of the

hydraulic component then the largest cylinder manufacturing company in in in India and one of the largest in the world we grow happens to be our largest supplier uh as far as the share of business is concerned for the cylinders. Coming back to your questions about fabrications, since we have a huge fabrication facilities in both our plants, all our fabrications related to plates uh are all done inhouse. So 100% of our fabrications from the plates are made inhouse. As far as the as far as the fabrications for thin sheets that we Have dedicated supplier in and

around our facility they they keep supplying us um sheet metal components like cabins like the hydraulic tanks and deckings etc. Am I able to answer all your questions or if you have any other question? So we are just assembling it basically like I wanted to understand how backward integrated or is there any scope of you know margin improvement if you backward integrate any of you see in in terms of The fabrication as I said our input material is nothing but ste and because in a material handling machine the the major part is the structural member

because that's actually takes the load and which is uh highly you know quality related quality concept related product. So the 100% fabrication is done in house. Most of globally most of the crane manufacturing companies uh they don't manufacture components which you have asked for for example engine, Transmissions, axles, hydraulic components. These are all outsourced. So it is more of a integration in the assembly state while we make our machines and the 100% fabrication is done by us unlike some of our competition where they also outsource the fabrication because as I said it is uh the

depending on the quality of uh structures the life of the machines depend and that's one of the reason why we don't outsource the high strength Fabrication structures from outside we also maybe during the course of discussion we will get to We also export the the wellments uh to our principles company. Our our fabrication facilities are qualified as per ISO 33 3834 which gives us access to the international market for export of wellment out of our factories. Thank you. And so just like a follow up on that I wanted to understand like what are the niche

products that PI supplies and Competitive pressure from imported creams in this segment. Well, well, as far as the products which TL as of today they are manufacturing, we are mostly into mobile frame and container handling machines. So if you talk of the container handling machines um let's say global market size for container handling machines outside China is around 1500 machines out of each TL on an average of course last year we made around 14 15 machines this Year we have plan around much more than that so you can say that even if we make 40

to 50 machines annually from our facility out of a global demand of 1500 machine that itself is is pretty high Um so that's as far as the container handling machines are concerned and as far as the mobile cranes are concerned in India except for the truck mounted cranes which are predominantly imported from our neighboring countries the raptorin Cranes are mostly we have around 70 to 80% market share for the raptor cranes where either the government or the institutional buyers they are the customers for these machines. These are the product ranges which you are doing today.

I'm not talking of the niche products which we are doing for the armed forces because we do lot of custom design product from the armed forces which are of course a very very niche application and also strategic uh uh Important application for the nation which you have been doing for the last three decades or more right and sir you recently also sorry to interrupt ma'am so may I please request you to rejoin the queue sure I will rejoin thank you thank you so much. We have our next question from line of Mano Sharma from M3

Investments. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you. This is Anut Sharma. Um, see uh one of the uh why when we Acquired PIL, what are the uh basic u changes we brought into the organizations which are the lowhanging fruits which we have solved and which are the other areas you plan to work upon in the next 3 five years. Can you just talk a little bit about that? what what areas have been fixed and what areas you plan to fix. Thank you Anuj. Thank you for your question. I think the basic logic why Gainwell group went

ahead and integrated TIL as part of a larger group was to uh was to have inter company uh you know strength leveraged for the benefits of each other. uh that process is uh beginning slowly and gradually because uh uh you know when we acquired TIL uh or when TIL got changed under the new management one of the first things as I said right in the beginning was to bring up a total management change. We felt that a company which has existed for about eight decades in this world and Has only grown to a peak of

about uh you know 500 odd cr in manufacturing uh has a lot of headroom ahead of it and I think one of the first key requirements that we felt uh was to be done was to change the management. So all new uh KMPs came, new CEO and director, new CFO uh in fact new company secretary uh they all came new. The board of directors was changed. So I came new uh uh and manag came new. So the entire you know the entire uh Independent director as well as executive director they got changed. Now one of

the first things was which was to be done was to engage with our customers. Our customers felt very frustrated because of the the condition in which TIL was for last two three years time. At this point of time I can say with certainty that uh at my level or at the level of Alo and uh we have been able to cover nearly 95% of our major customers. Everybody has been Covered. We have met them once or twice or thrice. understood that requirement started serving them in terms of our existing product line and assuring them about

how we are bringing in new products. Uh the other thing that we handled and which was in a major disarray was our supply chain. As you know we have had a very difficult supply chain scenario. The world has undergone a change in last three four years time five years time. A majority of our Supply chain was still sitting for critical components. It was sitting outside India. Now there's a major project undergoing in which we are wanting to to bring in as many products into India, develop the supply chain in India as possible. In fact, today

also the board reviewed that. Uh so this is another uh you know a very critical intervention that the new management did for making sure that we are ready for our uh you know uh plant capacity Utilization improvement. Um we are we are also aware of the fact that we have very limited products at this point of time and that is why you would have seen in some of the announcements we have made we want to expand our product range both in defense as well as in non-defense or in civilian application. uh there is a lot

sharp of focus we are bringing on our defense portfolio in which uh you know not only the systems which are going into the army where Which have been the main stay of our defense business we have also started supplying to air force and to navy and we see we sense very very large opportunities in those areas as well so there is a sharper focus in fact today's board has decided and you would have seen the announcement we made that TIL has decided to set up a separate SBU for defense just to bring sharper focus on

our defense business. Similarly on the non-defense portfolio as well we Are bringing in uh hopefully newer truck cranes should come by the third quarter of this financial year. We have many to walk and us we are working very hard on bringing in those truck cranes truck cranes. uh we are looking at uh some component supply into man to walk system for uh crawler cranes and hopefully the crawler cranes will start to appear from next financial year in India uh new range and after that uh in the next financial year we'll also have some Allterrain cranes

coming into India our customers are demanding larger cranes and we are very uniquely placed to bring in those larger cranes into this country so those are few things in terms terms of new product range. So as I said uh these are few areas on the on the operating side on the financial side and also we of course one important thing that we have missed out many of you would be aware TIL is the only company in the country which has got uh an IP Registered by government of India for pick and carry crane. I think

TIL used to manufacture way back in 20134 time frame the safest crane for in pick and carry category. This category we are wanting to revive. A crane did not get manufactured subsequently and there are still 150 odd cranes which are there. This ironically this IP which was applied in 20134 time frame. The IP got granted to us only after the company changed its management in 2024. We are Happy that we have an IP and this product is also going to be reintroduced in the country. Uh probably uh we will begin with third quarter of this

financial year. Uh so this these are few areas on operating side. On the financial side of course we've got the new banking partners and we know that we have to uh improve our capacity utilization on both the plants especially in Karakpur plant which we are working very hard on. uh Some capeex bridging capeex has been approved by the board uh in the capeex plan for 2526 which will be done this year and we are quite hopeful that uh and as you would have also seen we have got now our shareholders approval on a preferential equity

raise through QIP by 150 cr over and above that because of all the market conditions the our promoters have come forward and offered preferential equity by way of warrants of about 60 cr. So there is enough Financial heft that we are creating in the company to make sure that the emerging opportunities ahead of us are fully handled with both uh hands uh you know in control. So this is what it is. Uh Anuj have I answered your question or do you want any supplementary information? No no thank you. Appreciate the elaborate response. My second part

of question was you know if you see the portfolio of grainwell group and p there would be some overlaps uh especially Let's suppose take reference of cater dealership now over over a longer period of time you know how do you plan to possibly uh you know bifocate the portfolios or there will be overlaps going forward as well I mean what direction would p have in the overall uh grainwell group that will be helpful the the direction and the portfolio overlaps. Thank you. So Anuji uh I can confirm to you that there is not a single

product which is in overlap Between TIPL TIL and any of our group companies including Gainwell Commerce Sales or Gainwell Engineering or any other product. Uh you would recall that TIL has sold its caterpillar business way back in 2016. Gainwell group what it is called Gainwell is actually that caterpillar business which was bought out by uh uh a team of people there uh and they are the ones who are now constituting uh gain well group so there is no overlap at all However there is a very significant potential uh synergy between the two groups so Gainwell

engineering which has taken in the Gainwell group they are a company which has taken underground mining IP P from Caterpillar worldwide. They have bought it out and they are manufacturing in three international locations. One in India, one in uh New South Wales and uh one in um u West Virginia in the in the US, New South Wales in Australia. So there are three large plants and they are buying almost all their fabrications from outside. They are importing in fact fabrications all the way from Poland and TIL has offered we have offered our services to them.

There is an exchange of drawings which is happening and I think this should lead to larger uh you know potential partnership or strengthening each other through this route. All right that's that's very helpful. I'll come back for further questions. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from line of Yogesh Bartil from LIC mutual fund. Please go ahead. Good evening ma'am. Uh just uh two questions on my side. Do you see the profitability or EITA margin? Uh is is there any extraordinary here or we can maintain a similar kind of

uh margin going forward? So Yogesh G uh it is too early to give a Categorical answer to that. We have been able to see if you have seen our quarterly AITA. I think uh fourth quarter AITA was the highest to nearly 19 20% AITA but that's not the norm and that happened because some very high AITA products were scheduled to to be uh supplied and manufactured and supplied in last quarter. integrated AITA and uh what I wanted to outline this year's AITA of 11.73% if I get my facts right 11.73%. A bit which should sustain

through my mind. Okay. and uh uh the consu uh I think like uh elections are over everywhere and uh how do you see I'm not asking one or two quarter how do you see two three years from here what kind of growth we can realistically expect or maybe uh execute we are likely to see we are expecting a very strong growth in years ahead the reasons are twofold one India's own Demand which is now rising because of all the construction and mining activity which is taking shape in India and all the logistics infrastructure capex which

is happening largely by the government. Uh so that is the domestic demand but we feel that there is an equal push on demand which is coming from the international sectors. So uh all the tariff discussions which are going on etc. there is a lot of manufacturing opportunities which are unfolding in India India in terms of having their manufacturing facility and we believe products in various markets outside uh would open up. TIL has been exporting in the past and we believe TIL will get back into export market from this financial year onwards. So both ways we

see good demand. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from line of Asha Patil from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead. Uh thank you for the opportunity and uh congratulations on an excellent set of numbers. Uh first of all I would like to uh thank the company for uh arranging a uh public conference calls. So this is very well taken by the investor community so that we can uh have a update on the company's uh activities. So sir my first question is uh uh regarding the uh vision of uh 1,000 cr of investment uh

which gain well group Aims to uh do over next five years. So uh what is your road map and what is your split between the three group entities? Uh Mr. Patel, thank you for the question and thank you for your comments on uh you know starting this call. I think it is very important uh that we tell you what we have done. You are the people who are uh you know the storytellers for us in the market. Uh you will tell our existing investors and potential Investors as to how good or bad we look at.

So we we are we were overdue in this process and I'm happy that we have started this from this quarter. uh in terms of the,000 cr investment plan that we have made uh this was for the group as a whole uh when we made this investment announcement uh January 2024 after that there has been an investment of 335 cr in Gainwell commerce sales and Gainwell engineering. This was a foreign direct investment which came. So this was one set of investment. We began we had begun that with that story with 120 crore investment being put into

uh TIL. So TIL's 120 and 335 which has gone into other companies of Gainwell Group. This completes about 450 odd cr of investment. We have already announced a QIP of 150 cr in TIL uh and uh warrants also uh preferential through warrants by promoter about 60 cr Whether both happen or partly uh both happen uh let's say one can always expect about 150 cr. So let's say we are completing about 600 odd cr with this announcement once this entire thing materializes. Now it all depends on how uh TIL's growth story unfolds. Uh largely I I

sense that after that in the year 2728 we will get to see some more action on equity front in TIN. We will have to raise some more money. Uh we will not Hesitate to get back to our existing shareholder in terms of rights or anything like that. But I have committed to my board and to my shareholders in various interactions that I will not allow funds scarcity for uh the growth ambitions of TIL to be met. So hope this answers partly your question. Sure sir. So the uh remaining amount over and above the 600 K

mark would be then for other entities like uh gain engineering right? No uh no it is not I'm not saying That I'm saying in TIL also in 2728 hopefully we will have some more equity uh you know action and of course there is a requirement of Gainwell group to also have another couple of hundred cr of investments. So that will also happen. I mean various group entities are at different stages of revolution. All are growing and we are sensing a very good growth not only within India. the kind of growth opportunities that Gainwell Group is

now kind of uh Capturing in the US market as well as in uh in Australian market. Uh we see a very good sense of market growth for our products including TIL products in Africa and we are just exploring carefully as to how we can enter that market. Middle East is another very large uh opportunity landscape that's unfolding for us. So we are quite aware about those marketplaces and wanting to uh tread carefully in terms of how do we capture them. Sure sir. Got it. And a follow up on that first question is that uh regarding

the billion dollar massage uh revenue uh how would be the split roughly be between these three entities? So uh when we said that uh I mean a very precise kind of a split amongst the three is not there but I can tell you that Caterpillar business on that side because I sit on the board of that company I can share with some amount of confidence there that Caterpillar Business itself by 2027 28 is expected to be around a billion dollar. Oh. Uh over and above that we have Gainwell Engineering. Uh we have TIL and we

have uh couple of other entities uh which are part of the overall uh Gainwell group. Uh one of course being mining operations company called Resurgent Mining. uh and then we have below resurgent mining there is another relationship that they have begun in this last quarter that's with uh Daimler Daimler Mercedes-Benz uh There's a new relationship which has started on the mining side so overall it's difficult for us we are working through the plans as to how the five years for the group as a whole will look like uh back of the envelope calculation gives very

strong numbers where we have to kind of go through them very very carefully and see what is achievable what is whatever what is not but at some point of time in due course for how this towards the later part of This financial year we will be able to give you a better picture of how this looks like sure sir uh so last question from my side sorry to interrupt Mr. Rasha, we will request you to join. Welcome back. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to take

questions from all participants in the conference, please restrict yourself to only two questions per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we request You to rejoin the queue. We have our next question from the line of Nitan Gandhi from Inoquest Advisor. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you very much for taking my time. Uh maybe not to be counted first question but I have a lot many questions. So can you tell me whom should I approach uh separately and thereafter I'll put my two questions. Well you can always write to us and we Can we can

separately engage with you. No problems at all. You can write to Diwakar even write to EY team. They are our partners. They will be able to guide you. I think the best would be to write to them only. Okay. Fine. Now coming to my questions. uh what is it our fixed cost of operating you know basically when uh now revenue I think the structure is getting stabilized and uh maybe you reach some uh guess estimate that okay this is a fixed cost of Operation and at that fixed cost uh what is the max revenue potential

which we can generate that I I'm not saying time frame but I'm saying what is the max possible within the given fixed cost okay so Now if you have seen the results of the financial year 2425 uh we have just erupted into black. We have just left the red streak which was hovering around us for last several years, several and multiple months, right? Which means at about 310 315 odd Cr operating revenue we are just breaking even or slightly better than break even right in terms of overall patch. Now we believe that this is the

level uh and there will be maybe some addition in terms of our uh you know arising out of capex that we will do this year about 24 25 cr of cix has been approved by the board for this year. This should this level of uh uh you know fixed cost should take us to uh somewhere in The range of 800 to,000 cr of top line. Uh that would be uh you know a target which we have which we can which we can aspire for over next 3 years time or something like that. Three to four

three to four years time. Okay. And uh can you convert this in terms of machines capacity what we have and uh where do we see the peak potential of machines uh if possible both the product wise so you know at at this stage uh you You're saying in terms of machines number of machines yes or the capacity machine wise what are you arguing yes capacity machine wise okay so pinaki would you like to take So you see as far as the mobile cranes are concerned as of today we are making cranes up to 80 ton

class very soon we are planning to launch up to 110 to 130 ton class of cranes and if you if you plan a horizon of let's say four to 5 years we have planned to come up up to 300 300 plus tage of capacity of cranes as far as the restackers is concerned since you know that reach stackers are designed to lift containers ers and containers have got a fixed load. That's why the capacities of the uh the ditch stackers are not going to improve or increase. But at the same time, we are going to

have a variant of uh container handling machines which are also going to give us some incremental revenue in this particular segment. Uh when we and what's the capacity for container handling machine? This container handling machine I think it is like you know we call this as a 45 ton uh class 45 ton capacity although the the complete u dead weight of a container fully ladden is around 32 to 34 ton but the machines which uh which are designed to lift these 34 34 ton of containers it's actually it can lift up to 45 ton capacity

containers. Okay, thank you very much. And the Second question is uh this uh you stated that the Gainwell has group companies and they are out outsourcing fabrication for all three India, New South Wales and USET. So what is that potential uh which can open up for us if you can share some thoughts uh each uh country wise separately? So uh you know between I mean uh splitting it country- wise might be difficult I think but I can tell you overall I can Give you a sense uh gain well engineering this year this financial year they

have a target which they have announced of about 700 crores uh out of which and this is India uh largely this is India about out of which uh I think about 480 to 500 cr is India rest is uh machine manufacturing elsewhere. Now if we take even if we take 450 480 cr of India manufactured machines uh usually the fabrication is about 40% Of the overall machine sales. So you can look at about 160 to 170 odd cr or maybe 200 odd cr of fabrication which they have to outsource. Now, TIL while it is a

candidate for fabrication, uh we need to remember that NL engineering underground mining machinery is extremely complicated fabrication. Correct. TIL may be able to graduate to that level one in one year or it may take couple of years time to graduate to that level. So, what will really start To come in? Uh only time will tell. What I can confirm to you is that general engineering has started releasing simpler fabrication drawings which are big steel drawings and TIL is already started quoting them. Okay, fine. Nice to hear that. And can you share same for Australia and

the US unit? At this stage what is needed in Australia and what is needed in the US is also mandatorily unfortunately regulatory needed. I mean US as you know you know it better than I Do that US has become a complicated market at this point of time. Taking any manufacturing piece out of US elsewhere would become a challenge. As far as Australia is concerned, the regulatory requirement because the plants where fabrications are to be manufactured have to be approved by Australian inspectors, quality inspectors. Correct. So when gain engineering uh exported this first high wall miner,

the inspectors came to Panagar facility and they inspected. Uh So I just to give you a sense that there is a lot of regulatory oversight over fabrications which happens in those countries. It's a multi-year program for us, but we want to make sure that the group company TIL is manufacturing fabrications which are quality wise acceptable in the US market as well as in Australia. We should ideally see the transportation cost and if the economics still works out, everything should get sourced from TI. Thank you very much. I have many questions but uh I'll come back

in. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please restrict yourself to only two questions per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. We have our next question from the line of Shishi Jen from Nishai Investment Management. Please go ahead. Hello. Yes, I we can hear you Sushi. Yeah. So, You've indicated a pipeline of five to six new products in your presentation for the non-defense sector. Can you elaborate on these offerings like expected launch times and revenue contribution or mix of defense and nondescent moving forward? Well, mistri the

the honor I'll try to answer your last question first. As far as the average contribution percentage between non-defense and defense segment, I can Tell you that as far as the defense segment is concerned, it is fairly large, fairly higher contribution percentage because of uh because of two reasons. One is of course these machines are highly customized number one and number two this machines it is uh why we are earning the revenue but as far as the cost is concerned that is also distributed in many cases even after the delivery of the machines. So as a

result generally this contribution percentage Can be as high as 50% also over the material cost. As far as the non-defense segment because of the nature of the business because of the retail segment and all it generally varies from 30% to 40% and in some of the cases where it is a higher volume segment it can be even as low as 25 to 30 25% as well over the material cost that's as per so it varies from product segment to product segment in the non-defense segment. Now coming back to the products which we have Planned to

launch in maybe you know next 3 years time as far as the defense segments are concerned as I said that the defense segment products are highly customized depending on the nation's requirement of various um metal handling requirements which can be very sensitive objects as well depends on the kind of because the the as you have seen in the recent recent episode with our one of our neighbor that India is continuously evolving doing as far as the objects are Concerned and uh so the moment there is a change in the design of the object there's a

requirement of changes in the material handling segment as well so I won't be able to tell you exactly uh which are the segments India is working as far as the object changes in the object configurations are concerned but I can tell you we are there not only for the handling of the objects but also in the we are working on the various transportation U in the in the cross country and the normal road conditions how the objects are being carried um in different locations. So the we are working on both handling as well as transportation

for those machines. As far as the uh product launch in the non-defense segment, of course, we are going to completely have a revamping of the product ranges which we are doing as of today because our future products not only will be sold in the domestic market. We are also in Active discussion with our principles that once the products are made in India, they can also source these products from our facilities in India and also do export out of India in various markets where at this point of time their market share is low because of their

higher cost of manufacturing. So our entire range of doctors will have a completely fresh face version which will be at par with the product which they are manufacturing in their current Locations of US and as well as in Italy. We also plan as I mentioned in one of the questions that we are going to launch higher capacity grains including 250 300 ton class of machines machines are currently manufactured in Germany. We are also in discussion with our principal companies to come out with global products which can be exported and also which can be sold in

the Indian market. We're also planning to have a new version as our chairman has Mentioned that we have an IP for a pick and carry segment which we call as a pick and carry safe crates or or a machine which can even lift a load and carry on the deck. So this is a product which we are going to launch in the current calendar year itself. It will be launched in one of the exhibition of the construction equipment segment. Plus we also mentioned that we will be launching fewer range of truck cranes which can be

as high as capacity up to 110 to 130 ton Class. So we have various kind of truck cr various type of cranes which are already in the envir. And at the same way for container handling machine I mentioned in one of the previous question that we are going to launch a different type of container handling machine. Instead of a latin container, we are also trying to come up with an unladdened container handling machine which is like an empty container holding Machine. So primacy these are the machines which are there in our but then as I

said that continuously our product uh product strategy keeps evolving depending on the requirement of the customers and whenever some requirements are coming up which has got a higher prospect and potential definitely it will be addressed by us. 60 Hello. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so my next question is what Kind of orers are we looking to supply this year as compared to 242 machine supplies the previous year and uh we also supplied like 40 heavy duty hydraulic cranes to army this year. So with government's new focus on you know improved defense post the Pakistan incident. So

what kind of orders are we expecting from same similar kind of orders we are expecting this year? There are there are some actually you Know as as you mentioned that 40 numbers of proctoring trains which are delivered to armed forces which is precisely Indian army. There's also a tender going on. Uh there is an RFI which has been published for around 102 102 numbers of uh 20 ton capacity raptor in trains which are also uh which will be you know the tender will be published very soon. So that is as far as the trains are

concerned but as far as the volumes are concerned there are uh there are Different type of requirements come up which is high volume segment and also maybe the capacities are higher and the volume is less. So I won't be able to tell you exactly what is the numbers or what is the uh revenue which we are going to get out of this but we can tell you that we are seeing increased level of activity from our customers in the defense segment which is definitely going to give us an impetus in our both top line as

well as bottom line in the Coming years. So just one follow up on this one. Sorry to interrupt ma'am we will request you to rejoin the queue. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Bharat Money from Moneyb Investment Advisors. Please go ahead. Uh hello, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a great set of results. My first question would be if I look at quarter 4 if you could split in terms of rest uh between defense and non-defense and for the FI24 and quarter four and how do you see it shaping

ahead because in quarter three you had in the PPD you had said the order pipeline of 200 plus crores and in quarter four you have written 70 plus cr can you just you know elaborate a little yeah vari I can take that question so In financial year 2025, the defense portfolio as a whole, Which means prime products, the cranes and the other materials that we supplied plus the aftermarket that we have done that accounted for about 47% of the overall operating revenue of the company. Of course, 53% is the non-defense application. uh as we look

at 2526 we are likely to maintain almost similar kind of uh revenue split even as we are looking at a strong growth in this year as well may not be as strong As what we have seen in the base year but a good strong year and for quarter four uh how was it defend and non-defend quarter four we will get back to you with the number specific numbers at the moment do we have that split between defense and non-defense. I think we will get back to you. We have noted your question. Uh and okay. Okay.

So, so my uh second question would be I just want to understand the agreements with manito work and he highister and Snorkel. So uh how do you structure these agreements and the author books and you know the revenue sharing the pay buildings the inventory that you do and the after sales support. So could you just elaborate a little on this? So uh as far as heist and manito work are concerned these are uh fairly old partnerships. I think he came with us from 2008 or from 2008 and man to walk came to us uh 1992

1992 or sometime like that. Uh these agreements were very Simple kind of agreements. Uh these agreements have been in fact uh it was just uh an instrument for them to uh partner with TIL to enter India. Those were the kind of the the sense was that they did not even have specific provisions of any royalty or anything like that. Uh now what we are discussing with Manitook and Heistar uh these two major partners are the agreements with expanded product range upgraded product range. So as Pinati was earlier saying Whatever we are going to manufacture in

India now as far as these companies product ranges are concerned would be the world-class product. They can pick up this product from TIL and can sell it in any part of the global market. They are global standards. uh we are discussing with them at this point of time uh some moderate royalty payment because there is a new technology infusion which they are doing uh in terms of new designs and all into us but We will have more specific in in case of higher uh also is a similar kind of arrangement there would be uh some

amount of royalty payment that we will do to them which is a moderate royalty amount uh but that would be because they are giving us additional new products. In case of the third one which is the aerial work platform uh partnership there we don't have any specific uh uh royalty payment. It is a dealership more of a Dealership agreement with a with a kind of thinking that at some point of time when the business volumes make sense we will start manufacturing snorkel products in India. uh if ultimately they find it sensible, we find it sensible,

we will do that. Actually, we don't want to be only dealer and sales and service uh partner for anyone unless we have visibility of manufacturing. So, we hope that that agreement will also be uh uh soon in place. Okay. So, so basically uh you sell it back to Manito or you sell it to the retailer. How does that work? No. So Benito towok and he highister bases their technology. We are manufacturing products in India. We are selling in India. When they need these products for outside okay they buy it from us and or they they

allow us to directly sell to the customer at a certain price and things like that. So those you know once we get back to the export market they Have shown a lot of keenness in terms of securing products from India from TIS both higher and manage discussion has been going on for last almost a year ever since we saw the change of management they came back saying that we want to make India a manufacturing hub for our products in markets where we are not able to service uh from the US facilities or European facilities. Yeah.

So we are expecting some good traction on export market uh as far as these two Partners are concerned. Okay. Okay. So just we have an answer in the meantime in terms of split in core quarter 4. I am director of finance please uh quarter 4 we have non-defense 55% and defense 45%. So broadly the same broadly more or less the same. Okay. So I just wanted to get an understanding in terms of the margin. So uh that's that's why the question was so if you if you could just uh arrange in chronological order the defense

the marriage to work and the High range the margins if you could help me with that well huh I mean it is not as if we have higher margin or many to higher range or see it depends on what the product wise the margin changes margin varies Okay. Uh so let's say we have uh uh you know larger cranes where the margins are better then we are not in a busy market. We don't have too many too much of competition in the marketplace. We are able to realize better value. Obviously We are aiming at better

uh pricing or better margins when we export from India. uh whether these are smaller cranes or larger cranes but the current export will request you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of social media from wall for PMS. Please go ahead. Thank you very much for taking my question sir. Sir, I just wanted to understand on the business uh on the business front I mean the the structure What the previous participant also asked it was not very clear. So as for my understanding whatever uh whatever equipment you're selling for

higher and manito walk is manufactured by you currently and you don't just do act as a sales and servicing agent for them. That's right. You are absolutely correct. Okay. There are some there are some smaller uh inputs or components which come from these respective OEMs for instance control Systems or something like that or uh otherwise rest everything uh gets done here. uh they might supply some rare you know uh engines or transmissions occasionally as part of kit that they provide us more so in case of highar less in case of Manitoba otherwise everything is localized

and we sourced locally or or globally and then sold and manufactured locally and supply but then how do they get paid what do you pay to them it's just that The buying of these components is done and they get paid in form of the sales for those components this or is there anything else over and above that we paid to them to use the brand name or to use the design? So no no so I'll tell you so when we are securing critical components from them we are paying them right that's one second is uh

we we don't pay them as of now anything for using their brand name or something like that it's a joint Agreement for a long time that we have been having uh we'll use their brand name along with TIL in fact TIL used to manufacture its own reach stacker we were a we were a reach stacker manufacturer for a long number of years. Uh then heistister came and said you stop yours and we will manufacture our range which is much wider than this. We agreed for that. That's one way of giving them and now in the

revised agreement we have some moderate royalty Payment we will pay them or else whenever they want to procure from us uh you know at that time there will be a commercial arrangement that will be done for. So, so is it that because the market perception is that uh to uh to they are importing components and they are disassembling them so that they can uh kind of circumvent the customs duty. Is that is that a per incorrect perception of the market? No, no, no, no. That will not be a correct Assessment Mr. Kia. uh in Indian

market we are importing things from uh uh you know from these two OEMs only where needed in fact neither they are very keen nor are we very keen but you know the advantage for instance higher and many to work they are giants they procure let's say few things globally at such a large scale that the kind of economy of scale that they are able to negotiate with with the vendors that we can't do alone Now if we secure all Those components from them which are few in number it is not as there's a very large

number we are able to get much better advantage for the Indian market we are able to get their uh strength into Indian market sir also I've been trying to get in touch with you and how to visit your facility can we arrange something that soon because uh I had contacted EI about 6 months ago for a meeting but it after continuous followup also maybe from your end it wasn't uh Done is it possible to do that do something soon because we are very keen to know more about the company because it looks very promising. Mr.

Kia certainly we'll organize I'll talk to EY team and make sure that all of you are given an intimation and an opportunity. Our shareholders have been also wanting and I have committed to them that we will take shareholders also to our facilities. We are doing some amount of revamping of facilities. We'll Be most happy if you come and visit us. I'll work with EI team and get this uh uh processed. Thank Thank you very much. Thank you. We have a next question from the line of sake Kapoor from Kapoor Co. Please go ahead. Yeah, Namaskar

sir and uh thank you for this opportunity. Uh sir uh firstly as you were mentioning that uh another 25 cr capex is outlined uh for for this current year and uh after uh deploying of that fund uh we can reach optimum Level of 800 to 900 cr in top this is what you just alluded to sir in your previous answer that's right that's correct your assessment strategy is right okay going uh uh taking that into account and you are also contemplating some fundraising exercise. So how do those two things uh work? Money the fund raising

exercise will be only to lower the debt. My my question is towards this finance cost part only wherein for this financial year we paid 29 cr as the Finance cost. So what steps are are we taking to lower this impact and how is this number going to shape up uh going ahead? You're right. I think your statement had the answer that I wanted to give which is you know the part of the reason why we want to uh supplement uh equity base of the company is to reduce the debt we don't want to keep too

much of debt on the company something which has been unfortunately plaguing the company in the past uh at The same time uh at this stage whether it is defense or non-defense India market or export there are the opportunities that we are looking at or the opportunities which are in discussion, negotiation and things like that. We want to keep the powder dry. We don't want to uh you know rush to the market. Suddenly some opportunity in export has come up a steady opportunity in in export. We want to keep the powder dry. At this stage, majority

of the Funds that we are raising from the from uh on on account of equity uh uh QP or something will be used for uh lowering the debt and partly for leveraging it for our working capital purposes wherever needed and partly fund the capex where the second question was towards this other income component. Uh if you take the full year number uh the other income component is closer to 28 crores. So if if uh if kasa could explain to us What is the nature of this other income part and going ahead how is this line

item will be shaping up. So see this here you can see the figure on a higher side like 28 cr which is appearing because as we as you as you appreciate after the takeover we are also in the process of cleaning our accounts to certain extent. So this 28 cr there are 3 to four crores of liability which is lying in our books for a quite long time. It was more than Four year and 5 year period. So one one income that we have both like four to 5 cr old liy that is number one.

Similarly there was some very old provisions towards the uh old stock which we discussed with our static and that is no longer required to keep in the books. So that was up to certain extent of 3 to 4 cr. Similarly, we are having one big amount towards the royalty. So, that was no longer required. I think that was good some, you know, 3 to four years Back. That was another 2 cr. Similarly, we are having some uh this old slowmoving store. The slowmoing store again it was like accounting for 3 to four cr. So and

there couple of miscellaneous items and u one of the one of our customer they in cash BG earlier our we have given BG to one of the customer and they have in cash BG but at the same so when they in cash the BG we have to make a provision in our books of accounts uh last year so now after after Continuous followup with them the party refunded the BG so that BG which was lying in the provision that also we have returned back this year. So if you make a total of this it will

be coming to our next figure. I want to supplement Kaya by saying that part of this is also due to ECL written back you know the provisions that we had taken earlier in the company had taken because the recovery was not happening. I'm happy to report that you know what we inherited On 24th of January 2024 as difficult debtors a lot of those datas have been collected and therefore the provision had to be almost 42% of those datas have been realized for which a lot of provision was made. So naturally as required by law we

had to reverse the provision also. So partly you know this is this 28 cr level level is not something which is which will recur again and again and again but there would be of course some Cleaning up every year and some miscellaneous income. Okay. In fact your cash flow did does allude to the fact as sir as mentioned lastly that we have we have the provision liability no longer return back to the tune of 23 crores. So that is also the the point you are alluding to. Okay sir, that that answers and we hope for

the continuity of uh these calls uh at at at after the quarterly number so that uh we get an opportunity To interact uh and get the outlook also very well from the senior management team and all the best to the team of the time no uh strategy reversal of ECL expected loss was only about five odd cr but I'm saying this is one of the component which gave us some uh space you know because it was we realized the money from our cash flow mentioned 22.76 if I'm looking at the cash flow part I will

take it uh so uh secondly this is iron bar so the total provision reversal On account of different date inventory dattors the old creditors appearing in the books got reversed and the BG which was encashed Subsequently money got back. If you take this four in account the total amount of reversal is you are correct is around 23 cr of provision which got reversed. So and the balance if you see the other income the balance amount is coming on account of there was some old property which we have sold and we got profit on that in

Bombay area That is there. There were some old inventories lying which on accounts of manufacturing and you know as per accounting standard sale of old inventory on manufacturing comes under other income. So that's around 2 cr we have got it like that. So you are correct. It's a combination of provision reversal on account of five head four heads what I have talked about and other some realized profit which we have got some different activities out of which Few will not recover as sir was saying and but then few are very generic to the business as

we are doing it like ECL provision reversal some other account if we get some money and which was provided for etc. So yes there would not be equal amount of provisions sir but it will keep on happening. Yes sir. Thank you sir. No sir. Thank you. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Due to time constraint that would be the last Question for today and I know and the conference call to the management for closing comments. Uh well thank you very much uh everyone for coming on the call ladies and gentlemen. It has been a time 1

hour and 15 20 minutes very well spent. Uh I will assure you that it's been an honor for us to let you know as to how we have performed. Uh but I can tell you this is just the beginning of a growth story that is unfolding in TIL. We believe There is a very strong growth path ahead of us and we are working very very hard as a team and we'll keep you posted every quarter in terms of the progress made by us. So thank you once again u and look forward to seeing you at

some point of time. Thank you sir. On behalf of TIA Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.