She Made $200M Selling Swimwear | Erin Deering

I went shopping and I couldn't find anything that sat between a surf brand and a higher price point so we got on the beach we ended up chatting about it and triangle was pretty much born that day we'd found a manufacturer in China and they started making our products on the side and selling them in China and tried to register our name and it wasn't just them everyone then came and copied us what we have to do as a brand is innovate keep pushing forward know that we created that they don't have the talent to

keep creating cuz they're copying so let's keep creating when the brand became so big it you know kind of outgrew me I just was feeling not as happy as I thought that I probably should be feeling the best thing about triangle that I took away from it was that it does not matter what your material successes are if inside just isn't working hear the stories learn The Proven methods and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan [Music] Chan so er on the first question that I asked everyone that

comes on is how did you get your job AKA how did you find yourself doing the work you're doing today um well triangle launched back in the idea launched back in 2011 in Melbourne on a beach um and my partner at the time co-founder Craig we had our second date and I couldn't couldn't find a bikini well actually no I went to find a bikini because second dat at the beach is kind of you know a little bit nerve-wracking I wanted something nice and I went shopping and I couldn't find anything that sat between a

surf brand and a higher like Zimmerman sea Foy kind of price point um so we got on the beach I ended up finding something I think I bought a in bikini and we had we ended up chatting about it and pretty much then and there went there's a you know Gap in the market this could be really fun why don't we keep talking about it and triangle was pretty much born that day yeah wow so what happened next well we Craig had had previous experience in having a business so that was super fortunate I hadn't

had had you know I think everyone I was 27 so had pretty lofty Ambitions and like I'm going to do this and do that but no idea how to do it um and so we kind of started thinking about how we were going to start it and the name and the logo and the designs and all of those things and then pretty early on like like probably a few months after that we realized that we needed to we didn't need to but we thought we'd move to Hong Kong um to be close to the supply

chain we also just knew that we really wanted to have a crack and we wanted to do it properly and if we stayed in Melbourne with our identities here and our friends and our distractions we wouldn't really commit so we packed up everything sold sold out small number of possessions and moved to Hong Kong yeah wow yeah and at you guys only on your second date yes yeah so that so it was all very quick so we kind of you know fell in love and had our personal relationship going at the same time as triangles

you know the business so they were always very intertwined and like you know pretty much just the same so yeah yeah wow and during that time period like did you uh leave your leave your job like what yeah yeah so Craig and so he was working he' had a business a fashion he was previously an AFL footballer and then so's had many careers um and then had a fashion label which was quite popular in Melbourne um called St Lenny and then that he went bankrupt with that which you know was jarring well it was a

really jarring for me it was more jarring for people around me probably my parents um but it was actually amazing and it was really integral to the success of triangle because he' learned so much through that process and he you know he made decisions that were bad and and so really kind of helped us but his bankruptcy ended in April 2012 yes and so then he was able to kind of do things and that was kind of why we packed up and left he just quit his job he' had some design job at a company

here I was working in e-commerce at a company and I was loving it but it was you can see that trajectory when you're in you know and you would know when you're in another business and you're in kind of not corporate but you're in someone else's business you can't really accelerate to any level that you really want too so you know it was pretty easy just to pack up and give my notice and get out of here yeah I see so what happened next so you guys moved to Hong Kong how' you come up with

the brand the logo the name like really solid yeah so Craig is you know all credit to him he's a true true creative um and just loves to come up with logos and names and visuals and really you know like he did another 10 ideas during the triangle days for other things like loves it so that kind of was really down to him um and we came up with that pretty early on and when we got to Hong Kong that was really all about getting the samples and finding the money to start to manufacture something

to get it out there and we were building our website we knew actually we didn't know at the start we wanted to be director consumer um we did try wholesale a little bit but we also knew that that model was pretty clunky quite hard to manage I'm my passion really lies in customer the customer experience and having that direct connection and I knew I'd lose that in wholesale so we were really protective of that pretty early on and made the decision to just do online yes um and yeah and so that's kind of in the

first year which was 2012 from June onwards yes that was what we were doing was just hustling to get some product out into the market yep and uh how long how long did it take for you to go from idea conception to First customer to launch yeah look so Ida conception was 2011 in October November and then we sold our first bikini online in January 2013 yeah so it would have been it it was it was a while um it didn't it yeah it didn't feel like that I think that was that first half of

2012 when we were in Melbourne that was just getting ready to move and so that was exciting and there was so much potential and and then when that second half of 2012 was incredibly stressful because we'd given everything up we were in Hong Kong we were flat broke we didn't even have money to go back back home and we knew we couldn't go back home we had to try everything to get this you know brand to to launch and um so that was 6 months of real hustle and we had to borrow some money off

a few friends to really get you know to to pay our rent and to pay to get some product out there and what was mq it was really we were so fortunate it was really really low it was like 400 pieces which now doesn't happen at all and that's a real hurdle for people I think especially trying to launch a business that's selling a product is mqs are so bloody high and if they're if they're lower the cost goes through the roof so we were really really lucky we'd found an amazing manufacturer in China we

went to trade shows in the start and just sampled with a few found a really good one they ended up completely screwing us but that's another story oh let's hear that let's hear that yeah tell us about that what happened well they they copied us and they started making our products on the side and selling them in China and tried to register our name in China so we learned about IP and trademarks in a really painful way because we didn't do it at the start because it cost money we didn't have money and we also

didn't know that it would become what it would become so when they when we found out they were copying us which is about 2014 and it wasn't just them everyone then came and copied us like every brand in the world that was doing swimwear did a triangle version um and yeah but they were the they were the worst they were trying to claim our brand and they did a mimic website and yeah it was pretty tough it was pretty stressful but we learned a lot through it and we really just kind of part we got

our you know name trademarked in every other place we could um and I can't even recall if we did in China in the end um but they did eventually go away and that was just through us just I guess at the end of the day just ignoring them and focusing on innovating and making better product and and moving to another manufacturer as well yeah but that was stressful we lost all that product um because we left them and they wouldn't give us any of us from wear so we had a good month or so where

we didn't have any bikinis to sell and we were still selling them online because we didn't really know if we'd get it back or not and it was yeah there was some real pain points there yeah yeah this actually a good one because this is common right like you have a hot product it's being manufactured in China you do the Alibaba thing like literally this my my f bottle healthish this was the first time Mark water bottle like really made and now everyone's copied it oh gosh it's everywhere that's what people just do and so

what how did you work through that what were the lessons because it's so easy for this to happen yeah well the China One was you know that was because they weren't pushing into our Market it didn't feel as stressful it was awful but we were able to sort of you know I guess like separate that from our what we was selling in Australia in the US when Brands like Victoria Secret copied us and they were very very aggressive and doing every single bikini that we did and just copying us you know straight up um and

we you know tried to take them on legally which you know you start the process and realize you're about to go down an incredibly expensive path so we did all those initial aggressive you know like this isn't fair and we're going to go after them and how dare they and then you kind of it's distressed you know you're up every night till 2: a.m. looking finding copies and people are sending them to you and and you know and that was obviously just it was going to happen and but when you're in it it's so tough

to kind of step away from it but you really have to you have to go you know what this won't stop I can you know bang my fist make as much noise as possible send seas and deist letters do whatever but at the end of the day they'll keep doing it what we have to have faith in what we have to do as a brand is innovate step keep pushing forward know that we created that they don't have the talent to keep creating cuz they're copying so let's keep creating and we're really fortunate to be

able to keep doing that and and you know I guess like deviate and and move away from from you know what we were doing or and still know that you know and also still know that what you're making people will still buy that even if there are copies they still will want the original um as long as you're still making other product and not getting too stuck because it's such an investment of your time and energy to throw at people copying you and it's taking away from your Innovation and your creation of of anything new

and we just we just saw that happening we saw that we were spending our days doing that as opposed to creating anything new so we just went well we've just got to create new things you know put the blinkers on and just kept pushing forward and they all went away so yeah wow interesting so you end up finding a better supplier yes yeah and then what happened next like so those four 100 pieces how did you get that first sale was it through Instagram was that the first play or was it friends and like yeah

it was friends and family it was um we did launch our website but obviously our social media was Tiny and we didn't weren't really getting much traction as you as you weren't back then so it was a lot of Word of Mouth you know it was a lot of our friends and then our friends are friends and then putting it up on social media and just you know we always had this tagline that we wanted to sell one bikini a day yes um CU that would match our salaries that we were making back in Melbourne

yes so we with without having that crazy expectation everything felt quite attainable and achievable yes um and so we did just sort of start you know I think people really under undervalue word of mouth because it's not like a measurable you know like you know you can't say oh here look here's the return on investment on Word of Mouth but it's so valuable and it really was huge for us and in Australia especially in Melbourne you know people were oh this this brand and then they saw on Instagram and you know we were putting out

lovely pictures of girls in bikinis and that took a little while actually but we did shoot one or two girls and put the bikinis on them and then put those photos up and it was all done through Instagram pretty quickly yep yeah so where did where and when did you get that step change in growth cuz from my research you guys are doing 200 up almost 200 Grand a day in profits yeah yeah it's like you know insane like like did did the company get to north of 100 million Revenue a year like can you

talk about that yeah it it got to not 100 million it was about our biggest year would have been 60 million us because our Peak was only because it's a seasonal product our Peak was at different times there were a few months and it still is that way August September October really lean um because globally no one's really buying somewhere then um but yeah so we like our biggest kind of step growth would have been probably the social media impact of the Kardashians or more so Kendall Jenner um we had a few before then of

like bigger bloggers posting and they were bloggers back then cuz that was before they changed the name to influencer Y well now it's Creator yeah sorry true creat creator want a dirty word now Creator um yeah so we had a few of them and that would always you know get us a couple of you know not a couple but like new followers new new you know customers we really really catapulted when we had Kendall Jenner post about arinis and then that really launched us into the states by then we were already pretty solid in Australia

we had a pretty good customer base we had a great mailing list um but the States was really because of that power factor of of Kendall really and when was that and and tell us how that came about yeah that was I believe it was 2014 I could have my year wrong only took a couple years to yeah it was really like once we once we got over that first sort of 2013 you know obviously there were a few pain points and but nothing slowed down it the growth would slow down but it was still

always growing and then when Kendall posted that was when everything went mad and we had a bit of a strategy around that we knew we couldn't reach cuz we were reaching out to girls so yes taking a step back as well what we did which no one was doing back then which most brands kind of do now is that we were gifting without any expectation of a post in return it was and we were very clear on that we would say we're sending you this please don't unless you you know don't we don't need you

to post it we just want you to have it we think you'll love it nine out of 10 even you know 9.5 out of 10 would post because they just and we were really genuine because we didn't want girls posting it and and not really looking good or feeling good and then posting a photo cuz that would then you know it would it' be obvious so that was sort of really big for us and I think it got us quite a lot of traction in that that you know blogger world or that social media world

because it was genuine and it wasn't saying that you know we'll send you this but send like post about it like you must post it was never that and we never wanted to pay you know I still don't I don't believe they're doing that now we never really paid anyone um and yeah and so that that was happening and then so we were reaching out to girls but we knew we couldn't reach out to Kendall cuz she was you know the big fish and she just wouldn't reply so we reached out to all of her

friends and they were girls that didn't really have followings you know they might have had like 2,000 or something but nothing big two of them are actually Bella Hadid and Haley Baldwin now Bieber um but they were just you know Haley was just a you know cute Californian girl like she sweet young I think she was like 16 you know like super super young um really lovely you know she was a Baldwin but that was her thing she wasn't her own and Bella was the same B was just a one they were just Kendall's friends

wow and they didn't have big following no no no so we gifted them and then hoping that Kendall would come and chase us down and she did she emailed me got my email from one of the girls who we you know gifted and said all my friends said these bikinis can I get some too they're amazing so we sent out everything and then that was really it and that kind of started that movement over there cuz all those girls were wearing them and that that though they became more and more influential and it just kind

of grew from there and then gotone on the other Kardashians and Kim and Courtney and Christi she was wearing them and all gifting all gifting yeah all gifting cuz you would think that uh for the Kardashians you have to pay like you know like high smile or like they're pain yeah yeah no we didn't we did it was pretty early on so you know we knew that if we wanted to say guarantee a post or guarantee some kind of coverage that we would pay but we just we knew they liked the brand and that they

wanted it you know and they would like they'd get everything I remember Kim requested the this selection this was early Kanye days when she changed her look and all the bikinis she selected were like black white gray and we like on the Kanye effect like getting all the one like all the wanted Chrome kind of vibe um but yeah they all really wanted it and they wore it and they never tagged us but the daily mail picked it up and other Publications picked it up and they would talk about us and so it was happening

anyway we didn't need them to tag Us in the end because then we would use the photo on our page tag them and people would be like holy yeah you know try wow so it was really just fortunate and and an authentic approach to doing it as well so as the business really grew super fast where did you build team was it in Hong Kong did you come back here set up base or how did what did that look like d in Hong Kong set up a supply chain office there but only uh in like

200 second half of 2014 is when we really we were still working out of our apartment before that we kept it really really lean really tight really flexible because we knew you know we just didn't want to like I guess you know go too far ahead on anything just in case so and we still in our in our mindes you know Craig and I never expected it to be what it was so we were still small business-minded really and you know we we still were even when we were doing those big numbers and we'd be

meeting with people they're like What's your team like and we're like um it's kind of us and like four other part-time people like it was really really small so we did have the supply chain cuz we needed that by then you know we couldn't manage that sort of you know production process um you know in the critical path without help but that was still about would have been five or six people in Hong Kong and that was it and then just Craig and I and no one else there there was no marketing no social media

it was still W dominantly me um with a team of girls that were doing the customer care CU that was a huge you know part of the business was that Personal Touch that you know we launched live chat on our website before any other fashion business that would have ever done it because we knew that when you're buying something as intimate as swimwear you want to feel like you can ask someone about sizing straight away so that was really important so we had a team we had quite a few girls doing that in the Philippines

yes um and they were just working from home and doing it there and that was it yeah wow yeah but over time it grew or it's still pretty small I mean I'm lefted but um it's still a small team there's girls in Sydney now there's a store in Sydney and there's a there's a team of about I think there's probably like four girls in Sydney oh wow but still really small and then Craig's in Monaco and there's still I think a small team in Hong Kong but for the size of the business the team is

Tiny yeah and because the the model hasn't really changed and you know I'm sure it could have it would have taken a different path maybe bigger maybe better maybe not but keeping at Lane and keeping it you know about what we were doing was just really easy to manage so we were just we just kept it that way it was kind of like it's not broken so yeah don't try to fix it yeah that's awesome wow that's really interesting cuz I would have thought yeah as it as it Gru to even hit you know 60

million us not far 100 Mil Australian like 50 100 like like to run operations the marke all of that that's crazy yeah we we would CU we entertained the idea of selling in 2015 because we had private Equity just coming for us like you wouldn't believe so we thought well why not we'll just see and we be sitting out we went you know we sat down with ban capital and they're like so once your tell about your team we're like it's kind of us and they're like no no what and it was just it was

dumbfounding in a way to people that we had built what we built really just the two of us with a few other people people kind of helping on the bits that we just needed help with cuz we didn't have enough hours in the day but essentially it was really Craig and I hey guys I really hope you're feeling inspired from today's interview now the truth is all successful e-commerce Founders started from zero with a spark of an idea and a whole lot of determination but let's be real building or growing an e-commerce business is no

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tools and 24/7 real human support try founder plus today for just $1 for 7 days so you can accelerate your business goals visit founder. comom slstart dollar trial or click the link in the description to claim your trial all right now let's jump back in the show let's talk about the product I'd love to go deeper because it's product L growth like like it's yes Instagram was awesome and I think sometimes people they start an e-commerce brand and they go yeah I'm just going to do the influencer thing but if if the product isn't something

that is sharable or that people get pumped about or they love like all that on the brand you don't get the traction like what you have exactly so let's talk about that um how did you know when it was the right time to launch um we cuz we we launched with um nylon spandex like standard bikini fabric um and that was okay you know we launch graphic prints it was kind of cool kind of cute but it didn't have that like you know like it Factor like it wasn't like there was it was just kind

of a slightly better version of what other people were doing but at a better price point yes and so we were like yeah this is good like it's okay but like there's got to be something more than this it's got to be something different something new you know and and you know and I I'm saying that I was saying this was mainly Craig because he's the real innovator and he you know was going up look he's he was obsessed with fabric and trying this and trying that and what about this Fabric in a thick like

a like a thicker Nyland spandex like four layers or you know maybe bonding it onto this or you know trying all different things and landed on neoprene um you know Neo's been around for swimwear obviously it's wet suits um and has been around in swimwear there's you know a few other brands that were doing it um but we were the first ones to obviously take it into the mainstream market yes and we knew when we made them and when I put them on you just you just we said that you said that feeling it's like

oh this is it like you we just knew it just looked so good on the body so smooth so the lines were lovely it looked like nothing anyone had really done before and this was you know the the color with the black binding it was so simple but it felt just felt special and when you it would photograph well it would work really well being an e-commerce business because it looked impressive to get you know it was was more solid it wasn't like you know non spanic you know you can squash into a ball it

was really it was you know impressive to look at and hold and it looked really good on so that that was when we when we knew and then when we put that out that was what people gravitated to cuz they were like we haven't seen this this is new to us and it's not expensive so let's give it a go but it didn't sell that far straight away right not really like it did it it what we noticed is when cuz we launched with n spanic that was slow that was still like you know maybe

like couple of ss a week you know and getting a bit of growth every week so we were like this is okay but you didn't sell out first day like B down the no not at all not at all we were okay with the growth because our we didn't have any overheads we weren't paying ourselves we weren't paying anyone else so we were like and you know we just knew that we could sort of kind of move with it and change when we put the Nea print out that is when we saw that jump from

three for sales a week to be three four sales a day and we were like okay all right interesting good good and then we put a few more colors out in it and we were like oh okay this is you know and then and then we did a proper photo shoot in barley and then these little things that would happen along the way in the start and we' see that growth and it wasn't massive growth not until you know like 6 months or a year later we really but we were growing enough to see that

what we were doing was working and we were nurturing our customers you know were talking to them we were helping them through processes of returning or if they if something broke or you know and and so there was just a really good energy and feeling around it and it was Craig and I doing everything so we were sending out the product we were talking doing the social media we were emailing the customers we were doing it all so we were really able to tune in on what was going on at every angle and even though

the growth looked small from the outside in the beginning for us it was huge because we were like every new every like I used to get the PayPal notifications on my phone so it would ding when a sale would come through and that was like the best I remember eventually having to turn it off because there was just too many and being so sad that chapter ended because every sale was just that confirmation that we were doing the right thing and when that got up to you know 10 a day or you know even less

than that like 5 a day was still amazing 10 a day was great and then when it got to sort of like 30 40 a day we were like okay this this is we're on to something like this is this is going to be great I'm going just feel it and so how did you guys manage cash flow around this rapid growth yeah yeah so I mean we were we were always cash flow positive from launch we never borrowed apart from the initial so we borrowed to make the product once we sold our first bikini

we never borrowed money again um so we were always able to you know we like we weren't spending much money ourselves we were living super laying but we were able to pay for the manufacturing pay for our rent um we weren't paying girls for the schware we were just sending products so we had a Hu you know we were making that extra product to gift yes but you know we' worked on or Craig had really worked on getting our costings super super super low so we were able to gift H and and you know we

had no other overheads so cash flow we just kept growing out cash really and and not spending it because we were loving watching it come in like let's keep it let's keep it so so yeah we really forunate like even with like as the business rapidly grew and product you need to mqs get bigger and big well there you just bigger and bigger and bigger bigger orders you guys didn't fall into any difficult no no the more we made the more we you know we put back into making more Styles doing better photo shoots yes

hiring better models getting better photographers you know Craig used to do the shirts he used to be the photographer and I would hold the like like it was literally that kind of you know and he we would edit no I think we would we would we would Outsource the editing but we would do that bit ourselves so it was all done in that way so when we got more money it was just to put those few things in place to make the brand look better you know maybe higher like um we hired a girl in

Canada to do the live chat on the side that I was sleeping cuz I couldn't do it you know 24/7 so those little things but it all went back into the business yeah wow super lean operation I thought it would be much bigger no no so lean so you've been fairly open around kind of the challenges personally with the growth of the business I'd love to hear kind of like the real side of that like you know people from the outside you know you're on the Young Rich list you know people might think oh wow

she's got it all worked out I'd love to trade places with her I'd love to hear some of the some of the struggles yeah so so in the beginning it was great and we loved it and my skill sets were super you know tangible and I I knew what I was doing and I knew my place and it was customer care and it was Instagram and that was great and then when the brand became so big and huge and it it you know kind of outgrew me and I didn't know where I fit in and

that was happening at the same time as making a ton of money and all this success and I had my first baby and you know and from the outside every box was being ticked like you I ticked every box that you could tick by that age and I was completely inter you know internalizing how I was feeling so much that I didn't even really know what was going on at the time I just was feeling not as happy as I thought that I probably should be feeling um and then just point that down to just

was so busy that I just wasn't stopping and pausing but it was really that I lost my way through that business um you know didn't you I was 27 when it started so they're really formative years of working out who you are and I was triangle like that was me that was my identity so you know you go along on that path with it and you don't really ever get to step away from it because it is you and you know I was too you know I was too I guess you know when I got

to the really top bid and that was when we moved to Monaco and we had you know we were multi-millionaires and the rich list and you know and I we I asked to not go on that every year um because I just didn't want that to be what it was about because I didn't I didn't like attach myself to that I don't know whether it was I didn't feel worthy or I was embarrassed or because I wasn't feeling super fulfilled and happy I didn't want people to see that and and it not be the reality

but I was really really struggling and I didn't want anyone to know because I felt like people would just be like how dare you be struggling like look at your life like you've got all the money you've got you know a partner a baby maybe you live in Monaco you like come on like but I was really it was like it was that real it's the best thing about triangle that I took away from it was that it does not matter what your material successes are if inside just isn't working it just really doesn't matter

and I had to learn that the really hard way and now I look back and there were great times I wasn't miserable the whole time but I just wasn't able to work out I didn't have the ability to work out what it was that wasn't working because I'd lost that sense of self completely you know it it it took four years of to to you know really recently to actually be like I know who I am and I found my place and I'm ready to go again can you tell us a little bit more around

that journey and kind of uh kind of lessons you could share with with people watching because the highs are high and the lows are low and there is a dark side of Entrepreneurship where it's really tough it's tough It's isolating and and it's you know you you become your brand and that is your identity and when I exited in 2018 I did not know who you know Aaron was like I just just didn't know I had two children I had all this you know money which I didn't actually really have because we were settling and

there were disagreements with that and we've only just recently settled so that was also happening and I didn't want to go back to Australia and come back to Melbourne and I didn't want to lose my identity and attachment to Triangle because I knew everyone here was so impressed by that and my ego was like no like hold on to that but I needed to let it go to to grow and to like find myself again so you know it was a it was a it was a really long process and I guess you know it's

something that I wish because you know I still think about that time and if I was in my 20s and I was watching me and I was back in Melbourne watching this girl succeed and do that I'd be like I want that I want that and I still fall into that trap now of I see people you know making a ton of money or living overseas or traveling and I fall into that trap of oh like that would be nice like maybe like why I should do that or like I wish I could or the

end of the day it just really doesn't matter like what you're doing and and and where you are in life because if you don't feel that you know and it's kind of cheesy but if you don't feel that fulfillment or that selfworth or that you know kind of grounded feeling feeling of of what your values are and and and what your belief system is and all that kind of stuff if you don't have that you won't be happy no matter what you're doing you could be swimming in money you could be you know shopping every

day like I was and spending thousands of dollars and feeling numb about it like that's where I was at so I wish I had been like I wish I could tell you know like I wish I could go back and tell myself that or what I really want to do now is actually tell women that that like you know you don't have to be on the hamster wheel of chasing these things cuz they might not fulfill you and they might like there's things that I am ready to go again about that'll probably be similar goals

um but I know that I'm coming from a base of knowing me and knowing what fills me up and what makes me happy so yeah this a lesson lots of lessons yeah lots of lessons um so you exited uhuh uh I'm curious what's the plans now yeah yeah well it's exciting it's taken me I took I did take four years off um you know I have four children so I was busy and I was really working myself out and getting back into you know Aon and and and that world so um I yeah took a

real break took a really long time to work out who I was and and find what I really loved and what and what really you know get made me like ignited that kind of passion in me because triangle had that to an extent but not in the same way I feel about about what I'm doing now and um what I really want to do and what I am doing is make women especially in business does not doesn't have to be entrepreneurs you know obviously I have a soft spot for entrepreneurs I know how it feels

um but just women in business you know men as well but I really do feel super passionate about about women because I know what it was like before I know what it was like during and I know how I am now and I want them to feel less alone less isolated more empowered just better about themselves because you know everyone is worthy and everyone has the potential to do amazing things everyone just has roadblocks like we all do and we all have to navigate them and and understand them and move through them so you know

that's where I'm really really moving into and I've been doing a bit of mentoring I'm setting up my website um I'm moving into a few different structures that I'm like this is my I really feel like triangle was there for me to now do this like this is what I'm really ready to do so you're going to move into more investing advisory mentoring Bo yeah yeah yeah um mentoring definitely you know be really I I really do you know I come from sort of working in corporate so I really do want to tap into those

women as well a you know and man I keep saying women because it's just I just feel like it's just more natural um you know and I really want to tap into that and just make you know people feel better about what they're doing and I've done a little bit of it I've sort of become a lot more active on my social media um which was a bit you know I felt silly but now I feel really good about it I feel like I'm I'm you know having great conversations I'm connecting with women again I

know where where where I'm going so yeah it's exciting yeah and I'm curious like 2022 there's a lot of e-commerce Brands launching um what are common mistakes that you're seeing people make and like yeah cuz it sounds like you're doing some mentoring maybe with Ecom Founders or female Founders yeah I'd love to hear kind of what a common mistakes you're seeing people make I think a lot of people are you know I think it's a tough one it's probably for me it's a few things it's it's have it you've got to have the right intention

when you're starting a a business whatever it is and people you know underestimate I think a few things and it's the it's the the way people people other people can feel what your intention is like they know what you're doing like why you're doing what you're doing it's like it's not tangible but it's there you know and I think a lot of people will start a business with the wrong intention and then wonder why it's not working because they're like chasing an idea of being an entrepreneur or they're chasing an idea of selling this product

or an idea of this but it's not really what they are like truthfully doing so I think that's one mistake I think people still underestimate you know customer the customer journey and nurturing a customer treating them like they are you know King I think that's along with product being obviously number one that's customer is like also number one they sit together they're equally as important as each other because if your products amazing but you don't nurture your customer they're not going to come back to you someone else will make a similar product and they'll do

it and then they'll just go to there'll be no loyalty you know I think Brands need to in 2022 I think I think it's coming back but I think that connection with the customer and building up loyalty and that even that word of mouth kind of untangle connections that you're making are they're not as obvious like you're not paying to like sponsor a post on Instagram or like Bo you know whatever it is but you are putting the effort in and you will see it come back to you it's just you can't you know see

it on a piece of paper but it's really important I think Brands really need to focus on that and what about influencer marketing 2022 if you were to do you have aspirations to start another brand if you did how how would you approach that right now yeah look I I don't have any aspirations at the moment I'm pretty I'm you know happy to move into where I'm moving into but if I did you know influencer marketing I think it's still really important and valid and you can get a lot of traction there but again I

think it comes back to the intention and you know and and making the experience amazing like I'm now starting to get a bit of you know and I'm not a Creator or so I I don't do anything like that but I am getting those things come through and it's so interesting to me because I'm like this is like this what I used to do and you know you can tell the ones that are that are really genuine you know and like I'll get messages from women saying I'm I'm starting this brand and it's mine and

and I'd love to send you something and you can feel that they just want me to try it because they value my opinion and I love that versus the ones that are like hey we want to like you know send you this and can you like tag it and and it's just Sor transaction and I think that is really just not the way to do it I I know Brands will get some success doing it that way but it's not for me it doesn't have any longstanding success I think that you've really got to treat

everyone respectfully genuinely with a lot of integrity and really that starts from having the right intention at the start with your business you know and knowing why you're doing it and it's okay if if it's because you you know you want to make money or you want to be you know so the intention doesn't have to be some honorable like philanthropic kind of intention it just has to be true to you and really not be caught up in some like ideal idealistic ego or you know whatever it is um yeah I think that you know

that's really important and I guess a common thing that you hear is like I tried influencer marketing it doesn't work what would you say I would say it does it just takes time it's not an overnight thing I think that it's that on social media you see the brands doing well and you see the people with a lot of followers and and and it's so easy to get caught up in that but other people are doing this and they're doing that and I'm doing the same and it's like well just persevere with what you feel

is is right and you know again it's like a little woo woo but really tune into that gut feel like you you know when you're doing the right thing or you're on the right path with something like you feel it so if if they say the influencer marketing is not working it's like what what isn't working about it because it's either the way they're reaching out to an influencer or who they're reaching out to maybe they're going through all the big fished or they're going for particular type who's not even aligned with what they're selling

it's just like bringing that back and like asking yourself a lot of questions and then and then starting again and pushing forward and maybe like deviating that way yeah and if somebody wanted to learn from you around how to get well-known celebrities to post about their brand what would you say oh I think it's a different landscape now um I would yeah like I'm not about pay I still don't think you have to pay different for a campaign if you want a celebrity to shoot your campaign that's different you know that's a job yeah exactly

but if you're trying to gift or trying to you know get them just to wear it um for us in the states it was really handy to have a PR agency and they did like a gifting Suite the retainers are a big but they're not insanely big and that in the states is super super helpful that really helped us um what's are the numbers we talking ah like that their retainer for us was five grand a month us that sound too bad it's not bad it's not bad I mean we that's still for us we

were like no what are you going to give us like tell us you know but it was really helpful because in the states they operate more in that way whereas in Australia it's more direct influencer so in Australia you know if you want to get on a body that I mean you know they're not as big as the states anyway but in the states if you really want to get say on a Kardashian fun agency that they're pulling from or their stylus are pulling from yes and sign up with them and it's it is money

for for a smaller business but I do think that it would it would pay off I mean it did for us it's like they do sweets for Coachella they'll do a sweet for Miami swim week you know for us that was really important and the celebrities or the stylists come in and they just pick a bunch of stuff and then hopefully gets on them yeah and curious when you said youed speaking with with private Equity or Bane or had um investors like how come you guys didn't sell I it it always got to a point

where we would have these numbers thrown at us that were pretty high and you know it was all like amazing and we're going to offer you this and you you know and it was it was ever a majority it was always minority you know share that we we were looking at selling or or selling the whole thing um most people didn't didn't want it to buy the whole thing because they want us to be involved obviously it's it's a new business once we once we really leared that um we would get to these you know

have these meetings get pretty close to like maybe thinking about signing something and then we'd sit and go what do we really really value about our day and it was having freedom and having no one to answer to and not having a boss or another person and we knew that if we brought anyone else in majority minority it would just mean that we had to be accountable to other people and that was really we didn't want it and you know no amount of money was going to you know shift that for us so they that

they didn't really get anywhere because of that yeah which is good it was a really good thing to kind of value I think as an entrepreneur you value your freedom so much that's usually why you've left you know your other your other job and your other sort of work that you've done so you got to be really mindful before you give that up well look Erin thank you so much for taking the time this is awesome and uh yeah thank you for being so open honest and sharing with all the you've learned and you've G

you go full circle now like this is awesome yeah starting again thank you thanks Athan hey guys if you love this episode you've got to check out my interview with Davey foggy on how he finds Trends in under capitalized markets and turns them into multi-million dollar businesses I'm generally looking for Trends globally we find trends that haven't been kind of capitalized in certain markets or in certain marketing channels and then we also obviously add a flare to it you need to differentiate your product