[Music] I knew I must have done something wrong and I found her in my house she kind of I am out at her house now I just went in her home because I'm so worried about her this is 30 year old Matthew Hoffman he's just been arrested at one of the most bizarre crime scenes ever filled with something so strange that you'll have to see it to believe it after sitting in complete silence for hours in approximately three seconds you'll see him finally crack and speak for the first time admitting that a missing 13 year
old girl was found in his basement I can't do anything but what he says next is completely unexpected when Valerie Hawthorne became concerned that something horrible had happened to her co-worker after she failed to show up for work she broke into her house only to find a disturbing scene however she would soon discover that her co-worker wasn't the only one missing and the truth of what happened was even more horrific than anyone even feared the nightmare began on Wednesday November 10 2010 in Apple Valley Ohio when 32 year old Tina Hermann a reliable employee at
the local Dairy Queen missed a day of work for most people this wouldn't be a big deal however she also wasn't answering any texts or calls all of which was highly unusual for her concern for her well-being Valerie Hawthorne Tina's manager decided to drive by her house and make sure everything was okay she saw Tina's truck was in the driveway with another unknown car and that the lights were on inside the house but she still felt like something wasn't quite right she called the police and told them that Tina hadn't shown up for work Sheriff
Barber's office hi my name is Valerie Thorne one of my employees did not show up for work this afternoon at four o'clock okay which is totally uncharacteristic of her she's one of my managers okay I drove out by her house and went and knocked on the door and left her note she's not answering her phone which is totally uncharacteristic she's always answering her texts and she is not at home but her truck and her coats are in her house her trucks there and her coat is in the house I'm very concerned about it what's her
name her name is Tina Harmon h-e-r-r-m-a-n-n okay I know that she and her boyfriend are splitting up and he can be a real jerk with her okay do you have a phone number for her um that's fine what was your name again my name is Valerie haythorne okay okay I will uh have a deputy swing out there and check on her okay I appreciate it thank you foreign rather quickly two different officers at different times showed up to check the residence but when they knocked no one came to the dorm they left the matter unresolved
the next day an officer called East Knox school was to find out if Tina's two children 13-year-old Sarah Maynard and ten-year-old Cody Maynard had been in school they were told that both children were in school on Wednesday but hadn't shown up on Thursday soon a man named Ron Metcalf was also contacting the police because his girlfriend a 41 year old Stephanie sprang appeared to be missing she was Tina's best friend and they'd been together before he lost contact with Stephanie Ron had last spoken to Stephanie around 12 45 on Wednesday but she hadn't answered any
of his calls since then around 4pm on this same Thursday Tina's determined boss Valerie decided to take matters into her own hands when she got to Tina's house she noticed that Tina's truck was now gone from the driveway and only the unknown vehicle was left this vehicle would would turn out to belong to Stephanie when her knocks on the front door went unanswered Valerie decided to enter the house using an unlocked window on the back porch once inside she saw blood in the bathroom and on the carpet as well as splattered throughout the home she
immediately left the house and called the police tell me I can help you yes this is Valerie Hawthorne I called in last night about Tina Harmon being missing I'm out at her house now I just went in her home because I'm so worried about her there is blood everywhere okay where are you at I'm sorry I I just got back today so okay okay so you just need to kind of fill me in a little bit okay Tina Harmon works for me she did not show up for work yesterday and we have not been able
to locate her or her children for the life since I just spoke with I'm sorry ma'am okay I just need an address I just need an address 481 uh Kings Beach Drive in Apple Valley okay just give us a few minutes and we'll we'll be in round okay okay so don't go back in the house I'm not going anywhere I'm staying in the driveway okay thank you all right bye by Friday November 12th the police were officially investigating four disappearances Tina Sarah Cody and Stephanie the family dog a miniature pinscher named Tanner was also missing
the house was searched for Clues and the first discovery was very disheartening the initial crime scene investigation concluded that the evidence indicated assault with bodily injury including a large amount of blood in what looked like drag marks leading to the bathroom there was also Blood on the top of the basement stairs and in the basement something terrible had happened in Tina's home but the exact extent of the horror still wasn't clear the first suspect in the disappearances was the most obvious right at the beginning of the investigation the police were told that Tina and her
boyfriend were in the middle of a breakup and her friends were worried that something may have happened between them Gregory borders Tina's live-in boyfriend who was not the father of her children was interviewed immediately after he came to the police station voluntarily in his statement he admitted that he and Tina had split up but they were still living in the house together until either of them could make other arrangements interestingly Gregory normally has Wednesdays off from work the day Tina went missing but he decided to work overtime at Target distribution in West gen Jefferson Ohio
about one and a half hours away he worked from 6 a.m to 4pm but instead of coming back home he said he stayed at a friend's house in Urbana as they had plans to play golf in Bellefontaine the next day it all seemed very convenient except that all of his time was accounted for and his friend verified that they had dinner together and stayed in watching TV Gregory received a call from his mother around noon on Thursday and she told him that Tina was missing but instead of panicking and coming to help look for her
he just assumed she took the day off and continued to golf Gregory only realized his assumption couldn't have been more wrong when he finally returned to the home he shared with Tina there he found that an investigation into the disappearances had already begun after investigators cleared the crime scene Gregory's own family arrived with bleach to clean up the blood in the house so that he wouldn't have to see it with Gregory cleared investigators had to move on to other leads the next development was on that same Thursday when Tina's vehicle was discovered abandoned in the
campus parking lot of the nearby Kenyan college with no sign of her or anyone else but it was something at the crime scene back at Tina's house that soon became the most promising piece of evidence investigators found Walmart shopping bags containing two tarps and a box of heavy-duty trash bags now that's not a good sign at all but in this case it was also the investigation's big break because along with the shopping bags they also found a receipt for the purchase detectives wasted no time requesting the surveillance footage from the Walmart in Mount Vernon and
began scouring it for someone making the suspicious purchase of garbage bags and tarps along with a turkey sandwich and a t-shirt which was seen on the receipt it wasn't long before they found him buying the items just after midnight on Thursday morning just to be sure they had the right guy investigators obtained a copy of the receipt from the suspicious transaction and compared the product codes with the receipt they found the crime scene and they matched the suspect was a white male 25 to 40 years old with brown hair wearing a camouflage shirt and glasses
he was caught on the footage leaving the Walmart in a silver Toyota Yaris using still images of the suspect the investigators used the Ohio law enforcement gateway to search for any owners of a silver Toyota Yaris it was then that they found a name thirty-year-old Matthew J Hoffman his vehicle appeared to match the surveillance video and in his Ohio BMB photo taken only 16 days before the Walmart footage was caught he was even wearing a camouflage shirt similar to the one in the video obviously the police knew they had to talk to him but Matthew
had two possible addresses one belonged to his mother Patricia heglin and was only 0.4 miles from Tina's home the other was registered under his name and was only 10 miles from Tina's if there was any doubt that Matthew was the right guy a search of the Knox County Sheriff's Office revealed that he had actually been stopped near where Tina's van was found within the same hour that it was discovered an officer had stopped him to ask why he was in the area but believing nothing was amiss let him go the Sheriff's Office also revealed that
there was also a report of domestic violence between Matthew and his then living girlfriend that occurred about one month before the disappearances during an argument Matthew allegedly choked his now ex-girlfriend it was also discovered that following the breakup Matthew had just recently been fired from his job as a tree trimmer for apparently making his supervisor uncomfortable his ex-girlfriend was contacted and she told the police and Matthew no longer lived at his mother's house and hadn't for several months finally the police knew where to look for Tina Sarah Cody and Stephanie once search warrants were obtained
just three days after the disappearances a SWAT team descended on Matthew's home because they weren't sure if Matthew had kidnapped the four people they conducted a no knock search and used a ram to force entry through the front door they then threw in a flash grenade before they entered the home what they found was more bizarre than they could have ever expected Matthew was asleep on the sofa he resisted a little by not showing his hands when asked but he was quickly arrested and removed from the home as soon as he was taken care of
officers noticed something particularly strange about the house there were leaves everywhere the living room floor was almost completely covered in a huge pile of leaves at first the police were worried that the leaf pile might be hiding something sinister like a body but after searching through they were relieved to find that this wasn't the case still things only got weirder from there there were also bags of leaves lining every wall of the bathroom after breaking down the door of a locked bedroom police discovered what looked like a marijuana growing operation that was not active in
a freezer they found two Dead Squirrels lying right next to a few red popsicles but the biggest surprise was hidden in the basement a cabinet was blocking the doorway but once moved an officer discovered Tina's daughter Sarah Maynard lying on a sleeping bag on top of a pile of leaves and Matthew's basement her feet and hands were bound with yellow rope and duct tape alongside her in the basement were more trash bags filled with leaves thankfully Sarah appeared to be unharmed but she was wearing a makeshift diaper made from a plastic bag his officers approached
her she was very confused and told them that she was late for school and kept asking if they knew anything about what happened to her dog Tanner Sarah was likely in shock or possibly dissociating when something very scary or traumatic happens someone may dissociate to protect themselves they may feel disconnected from what is really going on or as though they are in a dreamlike state because reality is too difficult to face have you ever gotten in the car to drive home and then suddenly you realize you're almost back but you don't remember the drive that
is a very mild form of dissociation there was no sign of Tina Cody or Stephanie anywhere in the home investigators took care to photograph the way Sarah was bound before they freed her and brought her upstairs to wait for medical attention Sarah was then brought by EMS to Knox Community Hospital where she was thoroughly examined and questioned despite the trauma she'd endured she carefully outlined every detail of what had happened she said that she and her brother had returned home from school on Wednesday and were attacked by Matthew as soon as they entered she ran
to her bedroom but Matthew grabbed her and carried her down into the basement there he found some rope that was already in the house and used it to tire up he then left her on the kitchen floor for a period of time she wasn't sure how long before he put her into Stephanie's Jeep and drove her to the Howard Ballfield parking lot he covered her with blankets and left her there Matthew later returned and put her into another car and drove to his house once there he bowed her hands and work gloves and duct tape
had her gagged and kept her locked in the bathroom in a closet before he put her into the basement Sarah said that she believed Matthew had killed her mother brother Stephanie and her dog but she wasn't sure she revealed that during the time Matthew had kidnapped her about four days he cut her finger with a knife repeatedly assaulted her and said that he was going to release her before Christmas but he never told her what happened to her mother brother or Stephanie after being medically cleared Sarah was then released into her father's custody initially after
he was arrested Matthew was placed under 24-hour watch after crying and threatening to harm himself eventually though he was brought in to speak with investigators the following interrogations took place over four days and have never been analyzed before the interrogator reads Matthew his Miranda rights but he's almost completely unresponsive and barely even acknowledges the detectives bottom paragraph says my right's been explained to me and I understand each of those rights having those rights in mind and willing to his time to make a statement or answer questions you understand that man do you understand it's possible
that Matthew was in a catatonic state which can occur with some psychological disorders including schizophrenia when the person is experiencing Catatonia they may be completely unresponsive with their body like Matthew is now it's also possible that this is his way of coping with the stress of the interrogation someone who is under extreme stress May limit their movements in an effort to go unnoticed also known as freezing of course it's also the possibility that he's refusing to cooperate to intentionally avoid having to answer questions you want to talk to one of us alone or do you
want us both in here or be comfortable with both of us being here man soon they start to get creative in the hopes that Matthew will begin talking hey Matt you can ask your question you look familiar you look familiar to me you uh work out the gym though Matthew remained silent he finally reacts but what he does is one of the most bizarre things we have ever seen in an interrogation you know other people there's family members out there of other people and they all they want is closure that's all they want they've been
up for days like you and I have you know heart hurts I don't I I don't understand sign language man Matthew's hand signals seem to say that his heart is broken this is of course not real sign language however it's certainly odd that he's using hand signals to communicate but this could be an indication of Matthew's childlike nature what do you want from us tell me what you want from us Matthew sits with his eyes closed as the detectives try relentlessly to get him to start talking you want a couple minutes here just to kind
of think about all this because I know it's overwhelming for you right now I'm beginning to think I don't care he cares the detectives are speaking as if Matthew isn't in the room they're likely trying to see if something they say strikes a chord and makes him want to chime in to correct their assumptions about him when this attempt doesn't work the interrogator tries another more confrontational approach somebody will cry today if I make a phone call after this interview somebody will cry but I guarantee you some of that cry will be Joy because they
know where Cody is they know where Tina is they know where Stephanie is I know they'll cry for somewhat Joy Matt because I've already heard it with with Sarah Matthew tightens one hand into a fist and then covers it with the other hand a sign that he's feeling very anxious what I'm probably going to do math is leave this room and when I get away from these guys probably cry like a baby because it's working on me man big time finally after sitting in silence and almost completely unresponsive for over four hours Matthew cracks you
know I must have done something wrong and I found her in my house Chicago so I took care of her Psychopaths often try to paint themselves as the good guy or the hero like Matthew did here when claiming that he took care of Sarah this is a sign of anti-social personality disorder also known as aspd however when someone with psychopathy does something horrible they will sometimes pick out one positive thing they did in the midst of all the horrible things in order to claim that they are good what Matthew claims he had done to in
his words take care of Sarah was feed her let her watch the movie Iron Man and allow her to borrow his copy of the book Treasure Island so if we know anything else so I was trying to figure out what has happened Matthew's claimed to not know what he did is one of the Mysteries with Psychopaths and people with severe personality disorders because they sometimes dissociate and can't recall their actions this is particularly true for the very mentally ill Psychopaths such as someone with psychopathy mixed with psychosis other times they're supposed to inability to remember
is just their way of manipulating and pretending that they weren't aware of what they were doing at what point did you find your time Thursday did you ask her did you speak with her about you know what happened how did you get here you know anything like that so I've done it I figured I'd done something I didn't know I just could try to put pieces together it still is unclear what happened to Tina Cody or Stephanie or where they are however given the evidence of blood found in the home and Sarah's testimony that she
believed Matthew killed them investigators weren't hopeful that they would be found alive did you recognize her as someone that you had seen before and you know did you realize that this is a person you'd seen before that now it was in your house or I don't know generate that connection you don't know I mean I'm just asking because they were the pictures on the camera and they weren't taking you know at the time this happened so I was just wondering if you you know in other words if it was someone you knew and then wow
how are you to get near my house because she said that she asked you a couple times do you remember that how are you talking about childlike behavior is very typical of people with personality disorders including aspd however Matthew is extremely childlike when under stress Psychopaths and many people with aspd often regress to childlike behaviors but they often do so knowingly as a way to attempt to manipulate their way out of consequences a female officer believed to be a psychologist enters the room and begins speaking with Matthew one-on-one she set up the room differently so
they're more side by side instead of across the table which doesn't allow Matthew to have the barrier of the table between them keeping his distance and guard up I think what we were talking about earlier and kind of feeling alone that's definitely how I felt when I went to Chicago I knew no one there I was the only one out of my classes up there the interviewer is trying to build rapport with Matthew and trying to make it seem like she can relate to him possibly feeling lonely in a city where you don't know anyone
this is to make him feel less judged and to start moving him closer to a confession yeah Ichigo what's that Japanese oh if you go it's pretty nice it latches onto her comment about a lack of purpose she'll now likely use this as the theme for why he did what he did as he was receptive to it this is a step in the read technique of theme development When developing themes the interrogator speaks in a soft soothing voice to appear non-threatening and to lull the suspect into a false sense of security so I did go
out to Colorado after I graduated high school that's what I got into my first treble I hate something really bad I pieced it together I figured it out anyway it turns something that was my first present time she went out there with a sense of purpose it is clear he likes playing the victim role and the interviewer will allow him to seem like a victim to get him to confess but admitting that he had done something very bad in the past it shows that he has some awareness of what bad is so if there is
any doubt that he's insane this could show that he's likely not entirely insane I guess I've burned out of a condo for chemical in 2001 Matthew was convicted of arson burglary assault and motor vehicle theft while in route County Colorado it's believed that he set fire to a vacation condo to hide any evidence that he'd been staying there without the owner's permission he was eventually released from prison and paroled back to Ohio it's okay foreign the investigator now offers a justification for his actions saying he just wanted a release and didn't want to hurt anybody
this is another read technique used to make him feel more at ease with admitting to the things he did as she's proposed a more morally acceptable reason for his actions that he can latch onto stop it again her tactic works and he repeats what she said you know what antipsychotic medications I mean it doesn't directly address the problem powerfully tranquilizers I'll take it if I have to I don't want to be a teacher it's interesting that Matthew agrees he will take an antipsychotic medication if he has to it appears that he may be trying to
claim that he is psychotic or was acting due to psychosis when he committed the crime see why do you think that supposed to do something better that wouldn't be here wow again he's playing innocent and claiming to be unaware of his actions this is not a believable tactic in hearing this it's easy to assume that he's lying and manipulating we're playing crazy to try to get out of the consequences he knows he'll be facing while this could be the case it's also possible that Matthew has gotten used to dissociating throughout his life meaning that he
copes with whatever unpleasant or uncomfortable feelings he experiences after doing something bad by completely erasing it from memory this isn't a totally conscious process of course because people can't consciously decide to erase something from memory however this type of dissociation is something a person can learn to do as early as childhood particularly people who have gone through severe abuse during childhood in addition detectives found an extremely large number of leaves inside Matthew's home this is certainly unusual and may be a sign of a severe mental health disorder one of the symptoms of schizophrenia is delusions
in which the person may hold strange or odd beliefs although Matthew has made no mention of the leaves it's possible that he holds some type of delusion involving leaves the sheer amount of time that it would have taken him to gather that many leaves and bring inside lend support to the theory that he likely has a very strongly held belief about the leaves okay I can't you know guarantee these things but you might go to you know where you might go what might happen and the attitude that the people in the system are going to
take toward you can be affected by the fact that you decided at this point to do the right thing the male detective takes a very different approach with Matthew than the previous interrogator he's much louder more aggressive and more direct so the moment we broke into your house found you and found her in the basement you owned it all you own it all okay you can't do anything about the part of it you own Matthew clearly doesn't respond well to the detective's assertive and somewhat aggressive approach it appears that he's covering his ears with his
arms possibly trying to block out what the detective is saying he's silent again and the detective allows the silence to linger in the hopes that he will make a decision as to whether he will confess the detective mirrors Matthew's posture and body language here although this can be viewed as a way of invading Matthew's personal space it could also be the detective's way of trying to connect with Matthew the intensity appeared to cause Matthew to become more distressed however by mirroring his body language the detective is relaying a message of understanding and you know you
I mean if you didn't have a plan and you just put them in the Jeep if you just pulled over somewhere there's weeds in the Jeep so it looks like it's probably pulled into a field somewhere inside some of the weed stuff on there it's a random Place give me an idea where it's straight it might be on or off but you got to be able to narrow the field up from All County and The Dumping itself has to be less dramatic to recall than all the stuff to run in the bathroom just just tell
us yeah I will stand up before and see what you did and I will I will go I will go to Sarah myself and tell her that you did the detective returns to this theme that has Matthew looking like a good guy he even uses Sarah seeing him as helpful as a bargaining chip I want you to get upset but the reason we're driving around and we don't have to turn around okay remember I came in here saying that I didn't want to drive around unless there was some value okay right that's the whole point
is will you see something that will you know prompt your memory but I want to talk about I want to talk about what's what the possibilities would be from that location okay in other words not across the street s what would you do you know from there you know in terms of a place you might go that we're not going to be mad at you because you don't know exactly your memory is not exact because you are USA that you want you want to know you're afraid to find out but you but there's one of
you that wants to know if it doesn't happen genuinely then it doesn't happen I'm not going to be upset Matthew seems to like the attention and pampering he's receiving from the detective and the psychologist who were treating him with care and Catering to him as they try to locate the bodies the detective almost sounds father-in-like as he's talking to Matthew about doing the right thing almost like a mentor and the psychologist takes on a nurturing maternal role in her soft-spoken and calm way Matthew's severe emotional immaturity appears to have elicited this sort of care from
them you know drive you let you see and kind of see what happens I mean on ASU or Christian ask you an occasional questions but that's all that's all we're trying to do okay yeah all right do you want to go to the bathroom before we go are you good I think I should such thanks whether or not the police truly believe Matthews claims that he can't remember what happened to the three missing people they took him on a ride in an effort to refresh his memory he didn't reveal anything it's possible that Matthew simply
wanted to escape from the interrogation room and this car ride was a break for him from the intense questioning the next day Matthew was once again brought back into the interrogation room this is now day four the detective removes Matthew's handcuffs this is a gesture of Goodwill in the hopes that he will appreciate it and be more Cooperative with him [Music] giving him food and coffee or gestures of friendliness they hope he will reciprocate the detective even offers to heat up his food again trying to build rapport and seem like an ally to Matthew he's
just come out of his jail cell and may be even more receptive to the outside Comforts they're providing him he doesn't say thank you or appear appreciative which further displaces anti-social personality pretty much it's about 9 30. a little bit earlier you normally an early riser where you stay up late this is just to get him comfortable with them again and get them talking he clearly prefers to sit in silence so this is essential for someone like this what are your thoughts today after the things we talked about it last night what you could help
his behavior could point to severe trauma and or mental defect the detective realizes he must take some sort of action to get anywhere with Matthew and ask the other interrogator to step out Chris did you give us a couple minutes [Music] foreign can sometimes prove useful the detective slides his chair closer to Matthew invading his personal space to try to snap him out of the daisies in usually Matthew shifts in his chair positioning himself slightly away from the detective this may be a sign that he's trying to decrease his feelings of discomfort about the detective
sitting so close to him it's more than one time that I've advocated for the person I'm working with as a result of housing has gone so when I tell you that you know this is what I'll do or what I can't do when the detective states that he has in previous cases advocated for the suspect Matthew quickly looks up and makes eye contact with the detective for the first time since he's been in there this statement has piqued his interest and attention and the detective should take note of this and continue to use this theme
of him being able to help him foreign [Music] voice analyzes voice stress it's kind of one of the newer types of lie detectors that they use so isn't the microphone yeah despite Matthew appearing to be in a daze the majority of the time this question about a microphone shows that he's aware of his surroundings and he likely has some sort of plan which is why he's wondering if he's being recorded he's likely not as lost and distraught as he's presented to be just like that [Music] we lived there Matthew continues to delay because he keeps
discussing things that aren't relevant and then asks to use the bathroom yeah [Music] the detective is careful to not turn us back on Matthew just in case he snaps and tries to attack him especially after the comments about the gun if you want okay talking about the gun and offering to have the Cuffs put back on is a very unusual interaction to say the least it could be that Matthew might be aware of his own impulsivity perhaps he doesn't trust what he might do in a moment of impulse the detective took Matthew to a restroom
just down the hall from the interview room [Music] thank you I'm sorry I feel like technology I'm sorry if I put you down the detective is saying this as a tactic to essentially place the blame on himself for Matthew not being cooperative to see if that has any positive outcomes Syria because the detective may be trying to appeal to Matthew's feelings about Sarah earlier in the interrogation he oddly stated that he took care of her and I found her in my house just kind of so I took care of her the detective may be hoping
that Matthew feels some shred of empathy for Sarah so he'll provide them with the location of the other victims for Sarah's sake everything I've told you has been the truth is not just about you Matthew it's about her yeah I think I killed you I killed her law enforcement hey I failed them before but but I mean that's that's the package experience of our conversation and now in a bathroom and here now at work do you want to tell her who knows I mean if maybe she'd been listening with me yeah so are you probably
not going to keep the private Matthew revealed something to the detective in the bathroom that he's concerned the female interviewer will find out about he may feel embarrassed for her to know either because she is a female or because he still wants to appear like the victim as she was previously treating him third conversation like it's a that's the only thing that my intention I'll be honest with you right now is just how Chris will be saying okay but but I will tell you this okay if you if you tell us I will keep that
private the detective quickly realizes he now has some leverage over Matthew and he uses it to create a quid pro quo scenario Matthew is about to unveil a disturbing and unexpected revelation last night and let's discussed yesterday from what I heard from their family that's something that they that would just hurt them more and hurry yourself is not going to help anybody including yourself with the food process plan um where they chop food up and if they were barish bags there that were that then he opened or looked in her skin back not sure which
and um he saw you know body parts you know chopped up stuff and I'm not sure what to think now in terms of whether emails or doesn't know he doesn't appear to have any concerns about the consequences in terms of Trials reports the detective reiterates Matthew's story as if he believes his version of events but then makes it clear he's holding back additional information this is to try to get Matthew to disclose the location of the bodies foreign in terms of this deal I'm offering you okay I mean so to speak okay what do you
tell us what you do remember I mean it's my concern again is was the location can you tell us what you do remember look you know you I thought you'd want me to talk about these offer you mean to me what you wanted to have accomplished as a result of that today the trip I figured you sure you already feel that I mean you know in other words you asked me earlier am I going to say that and I said that you know I would not say that I would not give see what I'm figuring
is that that customers [Music] what your concern was that I didn't tell him about to desire to have a shoot you escaping Matthew's secret is that he wants to be shot by the detective the detective agrees to keep this a secret so that he may be able to carry it out this is all just a ploy to try to get Matthew to disclose the body's location as he clearly cannot agree to kill him cheer dad [Music] history yes I know you could just shoot me everybody knows and that if I truly saved yeah but what
the department is what does all this have to do with not telling us where they are so how does that hurt things it's hard to tell if Matthew actually believes his Claim about his dream or if all of this is just him buying time or trying to play Crazy and nobody thinks the person in this position that comes to this point does this of your own through your own fault I'm not going to try and figure it all out but I mean I know you know you're dead you're not split up when you were three
you went through a life without a dad that's a Major Impact it affects a lot of people a lot of really negative ways to have the 40-year firefighter and you set some fires okay his obsession with the leaves and the fact that he accumulates a large collection of leaves in his home could be his way of coping with the abandonment issues related to his father who reportedly was a firefighter it's possible that setting fire to leaves and thus his obsession with leaves could be related to his hatred for his father or his desire for his
father to notice him people who feel lonely hopeless or empty inside often derive comfort from material objects because they might not be able to get the love and attention they want from people in their lives as a result they turn to Obsession and fixations with things in order to feel less alone in Matthew's case accumulating large quantities of leaves may have brought him a feeling of fullness and comfort however it's also possible that Matthew may have some sort of mental illness and has some strange beliefs about leaves one of the symptoms of schizophrenia is delusions
yet Matthew doesn't seem to have schizophrenia as he doesn't appear to be in a psychotic episode during these interrogations when he does speak he sounds clear coherent and he's aware of what's happening around him he doesn't appear to be responding to any internal stimuli as you might expect with someone who is schizophrenic to our knowledge Matthew was never diagnosed with schizophrenia foreign that doesn't even help you the female detective calls Matthew out for his self-pity and victim mentality this is a sign that they are done using this theme to get him to speak since allowing
him to play the role of the victim has not produced any answers she then directs them to think about the future and how he'll be viewed in the hopes this will get him talking yourself okay well I disagree on that I think you do and you can Matthew is intelligent and knows that if he tells them where the bodies are there's no guarantee of any real benefit to him the most likely way to get him to give up this information would be in exchange for a plea deal such as removing the death penalty however given
Matthew's expression of wanting to be shot that may not be motivating to him they're pushing the prosecutive or pushing to have you come and have a hearing this is it this is your last chance to talk to us literally um that's what they're they're pushing for you yeah you're saying you don't you're still willing to talk to us about an attorney but they're that's what's being done now as far as pushing for that so this is your last chance right now to talk to us so kind of make more decisions for you yeah the detective
knows that it's very important for Matthew to feel like he is the one in control and he is calling the shots he makes it sound like if he gets a lawyer the lawyer will be controlling him he knows Matthew won't like feeling powerless and there's lack of media pressure also takes on the other people that are you know being affected by sorry but okay we're done we apparently until we are done keep everything we said in mind for you to think about it and think about what you can do for yourself after you talk to
an attorney no they're gonna I mean yeah they're gonna take you back down to jail because for security reasons the attorneys can't be able to hear okay remember public defenders have their own interest sometimes you know lose your head okay you're a smart guy take care of yourself I don't know if I have a chance we'll talk again the detective ends things on a friendly note calling him buddy and touches him on the shoulder as a last-ditch effort to leave a positive impression this is in the hopes that he may at some point change his
mind and confess to the location of the bodies the big question here is is Matthew's strange behavior in the interrogation all an act either for pity attention or a ploy to get an insanity defense or as what we are seeing actually the real Matthew Matthew later revealed that he made up the entire story about his dream about the food processing plant where he opened a trash bag and saw cut up body parts he admitted that it was all a lie to try and get himself killed by the police because he didn't want to be injected
with Thorazine an antipsychotic medication for the rest of his life he said he still didn't remember where the bodies were in a written confession Matthew admitted even more telling the investigators that he'd been staking out Tina's home the night before the attack sleeping in the woods across the street the next morning he watched as everyone left and then snuck into the home through the garage his plan had been to burglarize the home and sneak away without anyone seeing him he chose Tina's house because there weren't any close neighbors and the door was often left ajar
however Tina and Stephanie returned and caught Matthew in the ACT he claimed he ambushed them in a panic he wrote I was in a total State of Shock I wandered around the house slowly coming to realization of what I'd done and how bad it was during this time I killed Tina's dog because it would not stop barking it only got worse because then Sarah and Cody returned home Matthew attacked and killed Cody before tying up Sarah he wrote I did not enter the house to kill those people I did not know a single one of
them shortly after killing Tina Stephanie and Cody Matthew drove to Gambier to collect gas cans from his own vehicle with the intention of burning down Tina's house it was then that he was stopped by an officer who eventually let him go he gave up his plan to burn down the house and instead returned to his own where he built a campfire burned his shoes and drank a bottle of wine on November 18th Matthew finally cracked and agreed to show investigators the location of Tina Cody and Stephanie's bodies it's unclear if Matthew's memory of what he
did came back or more likely if he'd been lying about not remembering all along he described the spot to officers where he dumped the bodies hidden in the cocosing Wildlife Area as the detectives traveled through fields to a wooded area other officers secured the perimeter they eventually found a hollow beech tree that matched Matthew's description which had a whole about six feet up from the ground there was also a second larger hole near the branches when an officer looked inside the hole they spotted what looked like trash bags hidden inside the tree another hole was
cut in the tree and the trash bags were examined revealing remains belonging to Tina Hermann Cody Maynard Stephanie sprang and Tanner the dog Matthew later revealed he got the bodies inside the tree using the top hole and a rig and pulley system to drop them inside there's some speculation that when Matthew worked as a tree trimmer he had hollowed out the tree himself on January 6 2011 Matthew avoided the death penalty by pleading guilty to 10 felonies after everything that was found it was clear that Matthew had a bizarre obsession with leaves forensic psychologist testified
that his Leaf Obsession was delusional and they believed that he may have hidden the bodies inside of a tree because it was familiar and comforting to him Matthew Hoffman was then sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole that same month is the leaf-filled home went into foreclosure and eventually the tree where the bodies had been hidden was cut down
