DRA. KARINA FUKUMISTU (SE TEM VIDA, TEM JEITO) - PODPEOPLE #193

Our guest today is a psychologist, consultant in existential health, speaker and writer with a career focused on the study of emotional suffering. She addresses topics such as suicide, grief and the prevention of self-destructive processes, always with the aim of helping people deal with the adversities of life in the world. Today's meeting we will talk about suicide prevention, the importance of emotional support in the grieving process, how psychotherapy can help in managing emotional difficulties and the role of existential health in the search for meaning in times of crisis with you Kina fuco Mitsu Hello everyone, welcome

to another episode of pod people, a place where we meet to see and hear people People who Do People who happen, people who inspire Our guest today is a psychologist, writer, I think you've heard of her fu Everything's good, my dear, everything's fine, thank you very much for being here with you, thank you very much for Coming, we've been after you for a long time, right, first of all, I really admire your work, it's beautiful, beautiful to do, beautiful to see, and very few people rarely do what you do. does and I wanted to start

by asking This is exactly what made you choose psychology and within Psychology for topics such as mourning suicide existential health self-destruction what made you take you to this good path First of all, just that question moves me because the fact that I am here and have chosen everyone systems that are taboo are situations that bring vulnerability to human beings and this all happened because since I was 10 years old today I am 53 years old we are here we are here I am 58 I am going to 59 hello when we have some situations that

bring us pain, right? And today I really believe that I couldn't run away from what is mine, right? And what is mine is really being a scholar in what brings suffering, especially when I remember my mother's suicide attempts, so since When I was 10 years old, this whole situation of suffering began and many times my older sister and I Took her to the emergency room and also to the nearest hospitals, right, because you can imagine two children and we heard barbaric words, owner, you just want to attract attention. owner to You don't know what pain

is So we're going to put in a thicker gauge needle to see if you suffer And then you'll know what yoco's suffering is and next time you'll try a more effective way to to make sure we don't waste time with you, this sentence was the one that really made an impact , right? Don't be respectful and I'll grow up alone on the sides, right, but I'm going to grow and I'm going to do something to change this scenario And then I started to improve myself in existential suffering, the one that leads people to destroy themselves,

the one that leads people, you know, to think about suicide as a possibility and the Currently, my research focus has been, you know, for more than 15 years that I've been working with suicide bereavement for and it's also something that people don't talk about, right ? I wrote depressed minds I remember that I put it in the chapter, suicide. We need to talk about this and I remember that I said that at the time, on average, when a person takes their life, there were eight people around that person, whatever the relationship, they suffered grief. very

expressive Nowadays we talk about the number of 115 people impacted when someone kills themselves, 115 people and so on because in truth I don't know anyone who hasn't known or hasn't suffered the impact of suicide, you know, someone who loves or knows the Even though I don't know the same knowing, for example, suicide is such an inexplicable thing in the sense of brain functioning, which is always focused on survival, that this circuit has to be disconnected in some way for people to think about it, right, so I keep thinking that when someone remembers a friend

of mine when I was younger committed suicide and that impacted me, I must have been about 14 or 15 years old, I said how can what happened and I found out it was because I, my parents were awake I had gone to sleep and then I got thirsty I went back to get water and they were talking and he said how could so-and-so take his own life I went to sleep and it kept echoing taking his own life I didn't yet know what that was called suicide I didn't have this Association and it always had

an impact because for those who don't even know us, I would always be able Would I be so desperate that I would think about how to take my life and the solution is I usually say that suicide is an act of communicating pain felt and not consented, as well as the self-destructive processes themselves are acts of communication, this question you asked yourself, right, is what I have normally followed what happened, how did this happen, how did someone take their own life, if we all know that we will die, right, so this is the only certainty

we have anticipates, right, it's a reality, exactly which is what I say, the person who anticipated it jumped the queue, jumped the queue, right, and jumped the queue and what made them jump the queue, human suffering is then an act of communication of a intense existential suffering to the Point where the person thinks and anticipates what is the only problem in our life in our existence, so suicide is a very complex phenomenon, suicide is very complex, something that I have noticed, I don't know if you have, this issue of assisted suicide uhm, right, it started

in Switzerland, it seems to me that it is now being voted on in England, what is your view of this, so they are, despite having the same name, suicide, they are different deaths in terms of appearance because what does suicide mean that we talk about, suicide is a deliberate act of the person killing themselves, right now When we talk about assisted suicide there are some countries that work with death with dignity So we go to another perspective, right? In Brazil we still don't have this type of work, so if we encourage it, if we encourage

it It's a crime Okay, but it's another view when we talk about assisted suicide when we talk about, you know, all the processes that prevent dysthanasia What dysthanasia is is the prolongation of life at any cost uhum, okay and when we situate to suicide assisted, we are talking about a death with dignity and then we will talk about Aspects of bioethics, you know, it is neither right nor wrong, but depending on the location, depending on the country, what the person will seek is a death with dignity, which is a Another area that is very different

from the area I work in is that when we talk about suicide prevention we are talking about that suicide whose death is deliberately carried out by the person and then we really try, as you said, it is very difficult for us to understand a single cause So I usually say that suicide is multifactorial and among Within this multifactorial range we see what we call in suicidology precipitating factors and predisposing factors. Unfortunately, suicide is justified by precipitating factors, which is the last straw, yes, it is the trigger, and then the person says so ah go It's

watery but we really need it And then I thank you, right, because The idea is that we understand that there are several factors, several situations and and one thing that I always work on in post-vention in mourning for suicide, the truth He left with the one who killed himself because if we start to point out a single justification, you see, we are being Totally reductionist, so we don't know about the Mass . He left with that person who left by suicide and he really did and it's a more respectful way. I'm not saying that I

accept suicide, but I'm saying that every perspective needs to be respectful. Oh, it wasn't because I remember that in the past, So-and-so spoke a lot like that he killed him because his girlfriend left him, that's reductionism, right? No one, I think it was the trigger, let's say it was what you said, it could be the precipitant, right, but no, that's not all, it's not that I think that to get to a point like that, I imagine OK Carina, I think there is something, there is a void, there is a lack of meaning of purpose in

life, and then I remember Vitor Frankel a lot. because often we want to seek some purpose and it's very difficult, you know, we work with people who really have no prospects, they stop dreaming and one thing That I always bring up is that suffering blinds us from possibilities which we often have, you know, we don't have that Hope, you know, that feeling that it's going to work out and it's going to be finished. I work with an author who is Edwin Schneider, he brings the perspective that suicide as a psyche. In other words, I translated

it. not as I could as a psychologist like psychic pain but I translated it as existential suffering because psychic pain is not just in the mind, you know that well, we know that. At least it has three dimensions and that's why I work with existential health, right? Because it's as if I were saying there is a protective factor that is the development of existential health that at least we have three dimensions, physical, spiritual and emotional, which is our psyche, right? This means that this is why we also have to treat every self-destructive process and the

the culmination of this self-destructive process which is suicide as always multifactorial, right, because we waste away, existentially, and what makes us define, right, the way of coping that we have in relation to our conflicts, We fought, right, with some people? We know that sometimes we want to put that aggression out there, but in the inability to kill that person we put that energy against us and that's what the self-destructive process is, it happens a lot of times, right? many times, you know, in the sense that you don't know how to react to others, many times

you implode on yourself, right, I have a phrase that I say, whoever doesn't explode into self-destructive processes implodes into suicide at this level because what is a self-destructive process there is a wisdom Bia uhum right As strange as it may be, however strange it may be, wisdom is when you self-destruct, it's obvious that you are investing that aggression that you could put against the person who really hurts you that you have a conflict people, right, I'm in a circumstance, right, we start to work and do the work of transforming aggression into assertiveness, okay, and when

we become assertive it means that we are using aggressiveness at our service to the point where you talk about this rubbish, I don't want to. stay more and because people always think That aggression is a bad thing, right, Kina, and no, sometimes aggression needs to come out because it's a way for you to survive, it's a we are animals, right, we forget that, right, often our physical side we We are animals so this aggression that was not channeled correctly, expert, it comes to us, it comes against us, exactly that, you don't put it. This means

you see that it is the direction of this aggressiveness that sometimes turns outward and sometimes sets us against us so the work has been if you are self-destructing and there is a possibility that you will look because it is a wake up Call one alarm clock alarm clock so that you look at yourself because inevitably we all destroy ourselves, right yes yes or more or less or periods or less because we all have these pains that we have difficulty dealing with and sometimes identifying, right perfect because most people ah No, I don't have anything, everyone

has something, everyone Has too, everyone has some pain, right now, if I verbalized it, if I admit it, if I understand it, that's another story exactly, right ? She is not just part of death drive, right? aggressiveness It is in life and is part of life so that we can delimit it so that we can understand that we are people who can invade you in such a way that you have to have non-physical aggressiveness I'm not saying it, but aggressiveness is assertiveness, look, not that, right? Like that word you say, I'm not going to answer

you, or so pretend. that I'm not listening and the person insists, you're not, I'm not, you're listening, I'm not, but I don't want to answer, maybe we can talk, right? How many times did we say yes and we wish we had said no, right? Wow, so that's one thing. which really destroys us because it completely takes us out of a zone of respect, right? And when we talk about self-respect and ends up making you not have self-care, that's exactly what I really like is a phrase, I don't Know who the author is. but I like

this phrase I work a lot with this setting of limits and maintaining assertiveness that goes like this. Whoever gives more than he can is already giving what he can't, it's true, I don't know whose phrase, but it's beautiful, right, he gives more than he can. giving that you can't be perfect, right, because then when you don't go beyond your limits, you also welcome yourself and I usually say that those who welcome themselves choose themselves, so all the work of respect in welcoming is necessary, right, because we self-destruct, not because we it's because we don't if

it became Air, right, we didn't realize that we were investing this aggressive energy against us because maybe it's the only possibility that I found, but what do I do in the prevention work, including, you know, self-destructive processes to suicide, I help the person putting it out, putting it out there, putting out what can't stay in there, first see how it is, how is that because, for example, people think that they have self-destructive behavior or that they end up committing one act to the other? Don't try to take it off Yourself against one's own life, in

general, they are people who do not seek help or even sought help and did not find anything, right, a perfect safe haven, a perfect translator, right, or someone who translates what that person doesn't say exactly, ex, they are also saying, right, exactly, because so many Sometimes you know that popular saying, right, a dog that is bitten by a snake is afraid of sausages, we have a tendency to generalize things, right, Bia, and once I tried to love and I got hurt, right? I usually say that those who often feel betrayed relationally, it's because you're attracted

to someone and obviously when the result turns out bad, the person says I shouldn't have loved, I shouldn't have opened the doors, right? And I think there's an issue which is lack, there's a phrase that I don't know either who is the author but I love this phrase that says be careful with your needs because it makes you see love where it doesn't exist, it's true, this means that when we try to satisfy and fill our needs, our needs often we advance this border a little bit and when the result went bad, you start to

regret What we call guilt and that already contains ex and that is in itself self-destructive so I see countless people regretting what they could do and they regret it and they start to investing this energy against yourself, see, how are we going to deal with all these conflicts, with all this guilt, with all this energy that we have invested, because then I echo Colin Parks' words that he says that the price of love It's mourning Oh love in fought and that's why I work with people, right? Mainly in mourning for suicide because when you invest

in a relationship and you are impacted by someone's suicide, the first thing that will happen is you ask, right? What did I stop doing to that this person would kill themselves And then I talk about it in my study and ask who Kills who when a suicide happens it is no one's fault but we feel guilty because what is guilt is an omnipotent lament that you think you would change the outcome of the situation and it doesn't, right? and it doesn't change What is the antidote for you to understand that first you didn't have a

crystal ball second you did what was possible Because whoever gives more than they can is already giving what they can't You need to learn to be generous with yourself in your life including so that you don't increase self-destruction because self-destruction ends up being inherent, right, for human beings, including those who don't learn to put it out as we said Uh, put it in, right? And you're saying something so interesting Hey, once in São Paulo, when I attended in São Paulo, I was approached by a mother and a father, they were from Paraná and then they

arrived Ah, no, what can I do, right? I always opened the consultation like this, no, what can I do try to help because the lady looked for it and she said, I came here to understand why my son took his life, wow, that gave me something, both of them there, I said, look, I won't know how to answer you if that's the situation. Ma'am, you have to ask me for something help so that it hurts less or that you feel less guilty. Maybe I can help, but to say what you hear, yes, I think your

posture is beautiful, your posture of humility, because I am often asked, too, Karina, what caused that this person Killed two people there, destroyed trying to have an answer for like so we made a mistake here we made a mistake then I said but why not because we have other children there were two more and we don't want this to happen again I understood what their reasoning but it would be frivolous I say look, this happened that's why that's why because what I told you is a complexity that explains the inexplicable Sometimes we have to be

humble, it's like, God, how do I explain, God, I don't explain, it's us we also need to embrace not knowing, right? The Mystery of life and that there are things that we won't be able to explain as professionals, including in health, I think this is beautiful because the attitude we are normally given is that of saviors, saving lives But we don't You can lie, right? That's because there is people, I see this happen a lot , you go to the wake, the person doesn't, but think about it, that's why it's better, that's why I don't

Honestly, at the wake, I put my hug and nothing else Oh, I do it too, I don't say, what will I say, too, and you I touched on a very important point, right? Because people ask me what I say. If You don't know what to say, don't say it. Come closer and stay. If you can't hug, take my hand . you need to go to bathroom, you need it, I don't know, you need a tissue, that's what we have to do to serve that pain because that pain is legitimate, perfect, perfect. So I keep thinking

that there are people who give themselves a kind of omnipotence to even deal with with impotence ​I usually say neither impotence nor omnipotence is in potency in what you can give ex po exactly what you can give ex and many times, right because I remember that I saw that both of them this couple made a face like that of great disappointment and I said look I can only say that I don't know how to explain it, but I think your pain is absolutely legitimate, an unimaginable, unimaginable pain . in your hands, try not to blame

Hmm, because this energy of guilt would somehow create tension. Of course, in that family, right. Now, within this process, for example, how does your course on suicide work? post because first, right, when I took suicidology when I made that promise at 10 years old, I said well, I'm going to train as a psychologist and I'm going to move up in academic life, including taking a course because I always believed in information and in qualification as the first one of the first ways for us to work with suicide prevention if we expand our knowledge our knowledge,

right and normally we work with the idea of ​​education and that is why in existential health I work with educators with I asked Editora Loiola, which was the place where I published existential health, this boldness, right, so existential health and educators with a capital D in search of a fresh start of a pure life, good, cool, not health existential, the term is already wonderful, right, and educators in search of a wonderful new life Because it is the Fresh Start, right? So how did I start to create the idea, right? Mainly because in the In Brazil,

we don't have qualifications and of course, as I went to the academic field, what I was most afraid of and I also went to the area of ​​Clinical Psychology to treat people with suicidal ideations, what I was most afraid of was if a patient, a client, would come to me, look. educators pains of pain perfect of pain we educate our pains not in the sense of leaving them alone , on the contrary, it is to educate our emotions, our pains, our suffering until we transform them into perfect actions that take care of it or else

that's what you said there is assertiveness to deal with pain They have to leak out They have to leave, we educate ourselves so that they leave in the best possible way, that is to say, we look, we have emotions, we cannot provide eternal accommodation like this, emotions, they are visitors and when we welcome emotions we really have a direction for each emotion we have, we have to do something with it, if you welcomed it you begin to have the possibility of directing it exactly, exactly then what happened I started To really believe that every human

being could be a educator, okay, and when I say this, he could educate himself in the and that he should not necessarily be a health professional because I want to propose a Brazilian suicidology Bia, right, and with the objective of several professional people from various areas, so much so that the body teacher, it also has an interdisciplinary structure, so I have psychologists, I have psychiatrists, I have philosophers, I have physicists, I have pedagogues, JN, administrators, so what you are talking about is that you have a very network aspect that is absolutely necessary, but what suicide

is a human phenomenon perfect perfect so it's up to human knowledge as you said philosophy perfect that philosophy is the love of wisdom which also helps assertiveness, right, it's all interconnected, what a total perfect thing because I didn't want to take a course, a postgraduate course, right, whose objective it was just about enabling people to manage suicidal behavior, which is the first thing we think of, wow, I obviously want to work with that and know what I do, right ? The proposal is for us to open a discussion about the issues that really They're taboos,

right? Death, dying, the grieving process, suicide, non-suicidal self-injury, autoimmune illness, right? Thanks to my illness 10 years ago, I had brain inflammation, so I started to understand panencephalitis, right? I had an aden, which is a demelenation of neurons. a very rare disease in every four people in a million and then it was a moment when I was in my post-doctorate and I rushed in, you know, with an initial diagnosis of multiple sclerosis because I forgot the alphabetical order, I lost all my movements, this happened in 2014. So you can imagine that I was in the

middle of my post-doctorate and the next day I didn't remember the alphabetical order, I didn't have the strength to lift a glass of water, right? I was extremely exhausted and then I found myself studying care and interventions for the living who were bereaved by suicide, then Bia I said, life is calling me and trying to establish a congruence so that I understand that everything I put into theory needs becoming a practice also means That I answered to myself I will be what I do which is Sartre saying what matters is not what happened to you

but what you did with it so I remember saying if I leave this basis of existentialism Exactly exactly so now I understand everything existential health perfect perfect because we are that answer you know and what that answer is is the grieving process how we deal with it because the grieving process is the answer you give to every limit situation well so Then I started to realize at that moment brain inflammation that I should be at the service of working with another, which is the third force of my work with this development of existential health, okay,

and I am the fruit, it is not enough to remove the person from that situation, you will have to restore everything, you will have to give new meaning to your perception of what happened to you, your suffering instead of asking Victor Frank why happened to me you you will change the question to why did this happen and then you establish a life purpose a mission And then when I come out of this situation that I call an Existential crisis my biggest existential tsunami I have this inflammation I say if the life gives me a gift,

I'm going to do this existential health work that has become the antidote to self-destructive processes. So, look, I say that the opposite of existential health is not illness because we all get ill, right? Of course, the opposite of health Existential is this suffering that overwhelms you, that takes you away from the rug and that makes you lose your hope, including dealing with your own pain, this inability to accept what happens, that's why you're so bad, right? For example, me I see this in people, when I saw people with depression, the person with depression says get

up, they can't afford it, it's not a question of willpower, right, everyone gets it confused. I usually say that the opposite is happiness. depression that a Depressed person is impossible to be happy is not a choice So you have to remove that and then give them the possibility of perhaps existential health and treating depression is very easy you are saying something that I have always said today so that we Have resources We have transcranial magnetic stimulation, we have neurofeedback, you can put out that fire, that moment of despair that depression, despair, I don't see, I

don't see anything ahead, right? The big challenge is to transform that person into someone who takes away from your power within it and put it into Action, that is the big one because people, ah, depression passed, the patient usually disappeared, I said, now start the treatment, now it's maintenance, right? I'm talking about your childhood I'm talking about your whole life I want to understand this history because you, your illness is different from anyone else's and different from anyone else's I want to know what where you tripped over the stone What was the stone that knocked

you down so we can build a new road that That's what you're saying about existential health, it's not perfect because you help people reframe what, right? What did she do with the stone, right? Because the problem wasn't the stone, they didn't even see the stone, most people don't know there Was a stone In the middle of the way, Dr. Andrade's hand knew he had it, but most people didn't have anything, never had anything, but you know that I have it, right? I even say that it's an analogy that I approach the grieving process with a

distracting process. Stone Flower distract extract perfect perfect and how did I create this term, right? I had a thyroid nodule, right? And then I underwent treatment and then I was away for a few days to undergo the treatment because I became radioactive, right? And then I had been invited to give a talk and I didn't have a good title, I was isolated for three days, I'm a person who's very much into contact with people, anyway, I stayed there in a hotel, the doctor said, Karina, you have two options or you go to the hospital. or

you go to a hotel that accepts you and you talk radioactive they will have to put the food at the door they will have to put the food at the doors no one will be able to enter exactly I agreed with the manager and That was what happened three days on the fourth day when I left the hotel I was too dry to see life right, and I went there to talk to people exactly, but then I went to the Hotel's garden, right, and it was a garden full of those little white stones and no

flowers, Bia, I walked along, at the very end, I saw a little flower in the middle of the stones, I said oh I've already discovered this is the title I'm going to give for my talk extracting Flower of Stone what this is for me is extracting beauty from an arid soil and we have two steps, you know, two phases of extracting Flower of Stone The first is for you to transform your pain into love, even if it is self-love, and the second phase transforms the unknown into knowledge, which is exactly what I did with my

life. Health was information about how I needed to deal with human suffering and that suffering that triggered a self-destructive process and also suicidal thoughts, I never had it today, I still have it because I believe there is always more, right ? an arid soil because really In that pile of white pebbles I find a hope that was exactly the cover of my book Survivors in struggle for suicide Which was the result of the post-doc that I finished the post-doc That means halfway through the post- doctorate I had brain inflammation And then So that was the

result, it was crazy, right? It was a tsunami because you can imagine overnight I was extremely active, I was always very hectic, I have a life like that, right? Eh, it was enough that I was quite self-destructive in the meaning I'm cool with working because since I was little, when I wanted to rest, sleep, play, my mother would turn off the main switch at home, hit me, hit me and say, go study, bitch, well, I 'm saying something that I learned like introjection and I don't I'm blaming my mother but that was the birthplace of

my vulnerability and I say that the birthplace of a self-destructive process is vulnerability and what is vulnerable is someone who feels injured, attacked and unprotected. So that person doesn't have that shelter that is the Shelter I love this word Shelter I like more in English it's the Abri it's a shelter so we need shelter then what happens I started to develop the idea that I couldn't stop well when the autoimmune inflammation comes an Autoimmune very rare that only the brain was the only organ that I could stop, you understand that life is nothing about what

happens to us, it's by chance that I started talking, people, this is beautiful because I was the survivor myself, not necessarily fighting for suicide, because in the end my mother didn't die by suicide but she died of severe heart failure. Car she starts to develop a huge heart, which is really the representation of what I called the dying process, which is a dying process, it's an existential withering away. complexity of self-destructive processes whose apex It's suicide and the antidote to a process of death is the process of extracting Stone Flower without understanding so everything we

talk about is darkness Bia we need to find another antidote which is the light, everything in life, right you are oye perfect o all the time there isn't, at least in the material life that we all live, right, I don't know what it's like afterwards, eh, if I know, I don't remember, if I knew one day, I don't remember, and it's okay not to remember either, but that's how I always say that there isn't that perfect balance. material life she is Two Faces all the time and then this Acer light Shadow dark all the time

is this settling of accounts, right, because often we want things to be very right, right, we want the correct balance, 50 50, that doesn't exist, right, when I work with existential health is ooo the way you can be that is the best way I I usually I have a phrase that I say it's ok in the realm of the lost it's not in the realm of the perfect You know yes lost because we are Sometimes we find ourselves lost Exactly, right, and I think which is cool because when we take over this place, look, everyone

suffers, everyone self-destructs. The difference will be the way in which I will extract A Flor de Pedra, because I will need to extract the beauty of an arid soil, that this is life, because already life is part of the existential kit, suffering is not part of it, it's a curse, right, suffering is part of it, no, there's no way that I don't want to suffer, so you don't want to see it, you don't want to live, exactly, it doesn't exist when you start talking well, it's part of it, it's inherent to human being, this is

my existential condition, right? I'm going to be what I'm going to respond to in relation to who I am, right, how I respond, how I respond to all my situations. So this Person is a challenge, right? It's a Challenge, because when I say what survival is, right? I work with survivors in struggle But I also understand that we need to In some moments learn to stop surviving to be living, then stop being a survivor so we can become living beings, today, years later, when I made this promise that I was going to rescue myself, a

huge years after the brain inflammation 2014 2014 so I really made a I committed myself this commitment is a legitimate, right, a promise with, you know, this possibility, coming here, I took the plane walking and you know, standing on my own two feet for those who couldn't getting up, I didn't have physical, emotional and spiritual strength, I really say I'm living proof, not that I 'm self-referential, but I need to bring this Hope. in the dark in the dark Totally as if he were Saint John of the Cross he spoke in the dark night and

not by chance, the only sequel I had from a very rare illness was glaucoma, I know people, right, because I studied a lot about My disease, that autoimmune disease, can you imagine a breakdown of neurons, just like that , so I was the mother, the wife, the friend, the professional, the postdoc, the next day I was a patient in room 708, totally fragile, vulnerable, but exactly vulnerable, and then I understood that nothing is by chance there is a beautiful phrase from a film about the journey of life that chance is God's disguise and that I

was being summoned to give a coherent answer of existential congruence so that I could say man I'm going to show who I am from from the study that I do, bringing the antidote to existential suffering, which is this search for existential health in which you extract a flower from a stone to the juice, asked Carina, do you want us to put more flowers and more stones, I said no, if my work achieves Or at least get to a single person so that this person has hope of continuing their life, right, those impacted by the suicide

of someone they love, that they can understand that there is no cure, a grieving process, but that they will make a journey, right, that they will not paralyze exactly, they will stop following their exact trail, Right, it's not necessarily the trail of what was exact, right, what do you know if who left, right who left exactly, right ? you as a child taking your mother to the hospital for The account of a total suicide attempt is fragile, right? It's obvious, Japanese. Can you imagine, in a Japanese culture on both sides, my mother as the eldest

daughter, separated, divorced, at that time, the stamps that carried a very heavy prejudice, that is, we have it in the culture? Japanese also have difficulty dealing with emotions a lot, right, so that's why I became an Educator, right, so I'm emotion A Flor da Pele In this sense, because I treat people, I also say, everything's okay, you're not okay, Are you talking about Japanese education how difficult it is to show vulnerability Yeah, right, and it's something that I was criticized a lot for in psychology, right? Because how am I going to tell my story, right?

But I think that was from a time, nowadays, I say the opposite, I think that nowadays, Eh It's become fashionable to speak as a place of speech, but I think there's one, I don't know if it's the best expression, But you drank that water, that's what I said, no matter how much I say, Ah, I understand you, no, I can't imagine, it's because the other person's place is always It belongs to the other, right, no one lives for the other, and then I I remember your work, right, from your work, from your history, you also

grew and developed, right, so I mean, people really believe, but for you to expose yourself, right? And especially in my Japanese culture, it was really a break. a transgression for a wonderful time, right, wonderful, because like that, you, uh, you didn't break it, you came out of bubbles, right, The Cultural Bubble, yeah, because it must have been very difficult, you're saying something, uh, I'm going to put a thicker scalp so it hurts, uh, we have a small difference. eh from age, we're from the same generation, we're from the same generation, but I remember when I

worked in the emergency room, when there was a suicide attempt, something like that or a conversion crisis, if someone was talking hysterical, they would send the managers on duty to give bezetacil to the arm to it hurt to was the thickest escal as punishment I looked at that was I'm not going to give it first because I'm not going to give it bezet Ass in the arm because you can amputate an arm because of the size of the vessel ol ISO, right If I had to it would be in the buttocks so you don't have

any risk because that is made of a little crystal that can make a little cake there and you can clog a vessel that in the arm is much smaller than in the butt, right? I kept looking and said I'm going to do it that's not good, you know, happy about the patients who didn't receive it And then I stayed there and waited for all that confusion to come out, you know, and El was there talking, okay, okay , so there came a time during the shift when it was like that, something crazy, call Bia and

I said to come on no It was good, it was, and the nursing. That's funny, isn't it, because my fellow doctors are more difficult. The nursing team said how lucky you are that Dr. Bia is here today, look how cool, you 're going to be treated very well, and then something started to happen that I was on duty on Thursdays and there were people who went every Thursday. Look, they're doing an outpatient clinic, but look how cool it is, but they don't come to the emergency room in the early hours of the morning anymore, but

you saw what people went to look for at the shelter, the reception, right, the reception really He has a power A person would arrive and start crying, I never reached out to a person, don't cry because there are people who are bothered by crying, right? Oh, don't cry, don't stop crying, I would pick them up , I always had a lot of little boxes like that, I would take them and they would be in my hand. the person did it like this, no, I'm going to stop, I said don't stop, don't look, don't worry, we

have more cash Don't worry, do you want a cup of coffee or I don't know what, when the person was watching, I think the person was saying, I have to stop, but they didn't need to. stop, I said, you don't need to stop crying, but we have, you know, a priori a nuisance, people are uncomfortable with crying, which is exactly an emotion, right, I would let it, let it come to a time when the person speaks, then generally the person would take a breath Wow, me You did that well Fi You can rest assured that

this is not the case there is economy like with le de pap but for more professionals like you because I think it's the least you have to respect the other person's crying, You know and no one goes to a psychiatrist Karina to say they're happy, that's for sure and no one goes to a a psychotherapist , a psychologist too , right? they were very good but very good I said this many times while when you're really well, send me a text, I didn't even have WhatsApp, send me a text, but why did I say it

because I'm also happy that you're happy, I suffered with you when you were bad and I remember that I treated a patient who had Panic at the time when nobody talked about Panic, everyone said it was something cool and then one day he called me, I think it was on Saturday morning and I looked like this Wow, maybe something happened, right? I I said hi so-and-so, how are you, how are you? He said, I'm calling you, I 'm in front of the sea and everything is fine, I remembered you, girl, I cried, then he said

nonsense, you're crying, I said happiness because I cry, I'm like that, I cry. of happiness and it's good, right? It's wonderful, Carina, people don't allow themselves, right? I went to the wedding of my nephew and my niece, who I adore, both of them, and I cried the whole time, then the people you're passing by said, I'm happy. they don't understand crying of happiness it's my cry of happiness it's legitimate I'm remembering so many good things there people don't but go take off makeup I said no it's already been waterproofed because I knew that's who I

am so I'm that person who I cry with a lot of good things I cry at sunset and it's good I'm alive, good music with what gives you peace as I'm married to a Bahian man I say it's the moment for carajé how wonderful you are married to you are a very intelligent woman I also think more admiration more admiration than Bahians know being happy, right, and that's how it is, it's delicious, right, because Salvador is the place I talk about saves my pain, I had never thought about it, two places in the world Carina

Look how interesting, that's not me if I If you need a recharge, right? We definitely need a recharge, two places in the world Salvador and Parati Look, don't call me Ah, you're going to recharge in Paris, no, I'm not going to recharge , I'm going to Salvador, I'm going to Parati, then if I want my recharge, it's funny and Salvador is a city that I fell in love with Salvador because firstly everyone thought it was Japanese Seriously it was hopscotch ooo slanted eyes in the pelourinhos come and speak English I said man from heaven thinking

he was a tourist I said I'm not a swearer, but that's the most beautiful thing, right? You arrive in Salvador, the first person to look at me, hey, black girl. Tell me something, that black guy is so affectionate, he's so affectionate, that nowadays they're not talking, but because of da word , but I never took it as a bad thing, it was a hug, right, what a beautiful thing, Salvador, you ask someone for information, look, I'll tell you, wait, then I'll take you, exactly, exactly, yeah, but I think that's what we're talking about, right? we

need to look at people and perceive them without invisibility Bia all my work, especially with prevention, is to remove people from invisibility because suffering makes us isolate ourselves and we think that no one will understand us and then this makes us put ourselves in a place of invisibility and when you look and It's charming when you bring your practice as a psychiatrist as a person who refused to accept Those you should, right, to enter into a protocol and you have different attitudes because that's what we are we are Our actions differentiate one thing that I

always heard that I hated, right, all Japanese people are the same, so that's why I became a different Japanese woman, even different, right, even out of transgression and I tell my husband, you're the only one who can't say that, you know, all Japanese people are the same. confuse me, cza, you're not going to say that it's enough with another Japanese woman, then you say confuse me, right? That means that I believe this, even because of, you know, every existentialist parameter that we are unique, we're unique, we're not totally unique, and so what? Our strength lies

exactly, right there, his is your story no one in the world will be you or could be you that 's the beauty of it is that I keep looking at people and I don't know if you have that every time in every stage of life child adolescence adult every time I was feeling bad I said that but you wanted to be someone else I asked myself perfect and the answer was Always no I want to be me in an improved version that's cool right because these days I was seeing you right one of the notes

you put is you Put it like this, we can't compare ourselves, no comparison, no ex the comparison has to be between us and ourselves all the time so when you compare yourself I know who I was yesterday and I know who I am today And then he says what doesn't kill us makes us stronger and when you say no no I don't want to be a different person from who I am I want to be me that's appropriation that's behavior management that's the most powerful thing that exists when you assume who you are perfect and

assume that no one in the world will be you no one even if you have a twin sister that won't be you you have a carcass between quotation marks the same but it doesn't exist, it gives you power, but it gives you power, this is existential health, I think it's revolutionary, because not even reaching out to someone, someone always arrives and says who are you, then the person says, I'm a doctor, I am, I don't know who I am. psychologist I didn't ask who you are, I don't ask What do you do despite all the

roles, this is so Powerful that from there you can be the creator of another reality, create in pain, create in pain and This is how my work has been, this is what I tell you you will never get rid of suffering if you don't enter into it and your suffering is probably inserted in your story now for you to try to understand that there is Hope, there is an end of the tunnel, right, a light at the end of the tunnel, there is an extraction of Stone Flower, it is the starting from your own story,

remember the moments when you doubted that you would be able to deal with this situation because first you don't convince anyone not to want to kill themselves, you only bring the person into it one day, a person who participates in one of the groups that I work with she wrote in the group I'm feeling so lost And then later I replied to her no you're not lost you're just distracted from yourself because if you remember all the bitterness that you needed to face all your suffering that you needed to transcend you were beyond who you

know I even ask you who you are beyond your pain so many times when I was there in the abyss in my Existential tsunami of brain inflammation not being able to get up losing the movements very skeptical about my recovery Bia I said Karina who are you beyond your pain and one day you will tell the story and I'm not here and it's so beautiful because when you trigger this who are you the feeling that gives me give Carina and when we start to answer who are you beyond the pain who are you beyond what

you are from your profession who are you beyond what you have, right It's so powerful, it's so strong that from there you start to have this possibility of whether it is neither Redoing is about rescuing ourselves, we also don't have to rescue ourselves from the rubble, right ? for example, because I feel that today we live in a world where alienation, this collective thing, is very strong. Uh, I think it has always been strong because of this animal side of us of living in a group, but I think that now it has taken on greater

power. put account of the groups that start to form simply by the algorithms so If I like it I don't know what it is there let's say that we are in that group and we have to act as that group acts if I don't like it I don't know who I have that is in another group, so we are very rigid in relation to this, so I think it is much more difficult for people to be aware of these questions about who I am. Furthermore, who I really am, because to have that we have to

be silent You don't have to be silent with us and the world is so noisy with so many distraction options You notice this in your service a lot because first of all we have something that is part of the human being the need to belong but we start to create tribes and places of belonging a lot incorrect in the sense that we become more rigid, and in order for us to belong, we start to sell ourselves, right, we often give up our limits on what is really significant and that really makes sense , and then

the story of the lack of meaning in life is often because it stays innocuous I want to stay in a small shape, right, and I lose my singular shape I want to fit in I want to be likeable I want To belong I want to please And you, what really makes sense to you, what do you like What are your values ​​What It's your convictions because this mess that we call confluence, right? Eh, it's great in the sense that we don't feel lonely. It's on the other side. When you I ask you, that's from Mop

Ponti, right. Which hand plays the other here, right, is the right that touches the left or the left that touches this is the human being we are, right, interrelationship This means that you don't need to adapt to the groups And then when you want to adapt at all costs you start to stop side your story your uniqueness right What you feel what you do right And then this singularity is also important this lack of loyalty to yourself right ex perfect people talk a lot about loyalty but people talk a lot about this thing to be

loyal to so-and-so, but they don't they are loyal to them, that's what I think, you know, Bia, that the one who lives the process of death, obviously because he was in the cradle of vulnerability, we know that he is injured, attacked and unprotected, is the one who lives for rent within himself and I really like it that way. listen When are you going to own your life when are you really going to be that person who is going to take ownership of your story even I remember a situation I went through with my husband, right

And when I was sick obviously How he always saw me very ada right ee no I was very exhausted, very tired and very indignant at forgetting the alphabetical order so every day, Bia, I went to my shelves, I mixed all my CDs and my books and put them in alphabetical order, alphabetical order so I could help with brain plasticity, I went to the food cupboard and placed them for days of inspiration for pleasure. expiration date this really helped me, well he saw me doing all this and he takes my arm and he says Carina, go

rest, go watch TV, go to sleep, well, I told you, right? My story is that I tried to do this when I was little girl I would get beaten And then when he arrives and says Kina go rest because you don't know how to take care of yourself Ah Bia I said Duda take your hand off my arm I don't accept you saying that I'm not a caregiver Because all I did was Educate myself So that I can be a caregiver, the one who takes care of pain. That means I didn't have a father or

mother with me. I'm a professional who's a very careful caregiver. So the only thing I know about my story is Karina. You don't have the right to Saying this doesn't make me feel I really want to feel like I'm the owner of my life, we're together until now, OK, Bia. But remember, aggression turns into assertiveness , right? I was unstoppable I wanted to stop you but he referred to a format of stopping which is his exactly so we caregivers have this common sense way so I say don't be a Mediocre caregiver because we can't help

the other in our condition of care we have what to ask, so when you told the story, when you were there, you know, helping people who attempted suicide, this is what you bring as a lesson to us, you go there, right, what, how can I be with you, how can I help you Instead of putting a Bezetacil instead of hurting you More than creating pain and I thought like that, people, if that person is trying to take their life, their pain is S stupid, um, bigger, it's stupid, exactly, because it's such a pain big But

that's the culture of punishment for our emotions Bia, right, that's really the case and I'm loving our conversation because the idea is for us to open our minds as professionals who dedicate themselves to health because what health means then is that you do it your way or you expand, right? the unique way that each person can feel cared for is, as you said, there is no one person like another, even if they are twins, there is no such thing as S. So when we bring a tone, an appreciation, be who you are, it doesn't matter

how no one will experience what you need live and neither his life nor his life is yours life is your business, it's not always it will be, it is and that's the way it is, of course it's an incalculable pain whoever lost someone is the one who took their own life but life has to go on because it's your life, right ? good person oo Edwin schneidman he brings, you know, Suicide to psych, so it's a result, you know, of a representation of intense existential suffering and he also Brings something that I think is very

important for us to talk about, suicide is a definitive act for a temporary problem when we understand that the one who died and if he killed, he ended his suffering, but suffering begins for those who remain, which are people mourning suicide, so I raise the question: Who kills who when a suicide happens because when we start to make this journey, it is not a process of easy mourning Certainly not the path of postvention, which was also, you know, an area that Edwin Schneider brings, which is taking care of the people who are left behind, those

survivors. So you can imagine the devastation that happens, the person is left raw and it is obvious that everything that She wants to go with the person who left by suicide but the suffering of that person who left by suicide began their suffering and now it's up to you so the work of post-vention and fighting for suicide is to accompany people to leave this margin of being left raw and that the We don't have time to grieve, but I say that it is possible that you are on the other shore and what it means to

be on the other shore is for you to understand that you Are a living being despite all the blows you have experienced despite all the suffering that you I'm devastated, so that's it, I have countless people that I follow who say Karina, I want to learn how to stop being a survivor and become a living being because it's a big challenge, right? And in reality it was caused by someone's suicide. right, but we always have to learn this, right? It was just a rush for that person, I always think that because we spend our whole

lives learning to be a total living person, right? And much more than what the other provokes with us because like us It's not without the other one, okay? So , I go back to that question you brought up from the groups, right, every time we love, right, what I also said about the parks, every time we love, we will definitely fight when you have an expectation in relation to the other and this expectations are high, frustrations are of the same size and in the same proportion, I mean, you saw that we increasingly need to learn

to deal with our disappointments, frustrations with our vulnerability, there are a lot of things to do, You understand a lot of things, but that's what being human is that we are born human, right? You are human now being human you build this , so I think and you respond, right ? if we will all go, right? Really, our biggest challenge is for you to say how am I going to, right, persevere in this hope that belongs to Paulo Freire, which I think is a beautiful idea, right ? Someone else takes care of mine Hope, I

really need it, I'm a person that I love, right, doing tsuru, doing Hope, right? So you want ugami, right, it's known as the bird of Peace of Hope, but this idea of ​​us being able to, and not staying in a passive attitude towards our suffering, waiting that someone saves us, waiting for someone to recover us, right? This is also very cultural, right? Carina, this thing about the Savior who will come? And truth it only happens in your story What is inherent in your story is mine What is inherent in mine there is no way I

can't transfer that that would be good, right, we want to outsource the suffering, right, but there is no way how the suffering is up to me It fits, it's true, right? And when we say I can't run away from here , what's mine, right? Then we even come back with the idea that, well, we have a mission here, right? They are all different purposes that we can find different meanings of life and no one is the same as another, which is exactly why I cannot fulfill the other's purpose I can't I can at most not

get in the way at times trying to help is the most we can do we are 8 billion human beings 8 billion different people Everyone brings a share the issue is that we take a lot time to understand this You think it's all the same and you go with this mass movement and we come across it's no wonder that suicide rates only go up, right? that it takes time Bia Knows so I Actually today I am very firm in this conviction, you know that it takes time for us to take control of our history of

our problems of what really brings us suffering and when you say well it's a problem like the other and in the end everything works out because If it's not working out, it's because it hasn't reached the final end, I think that's beautiful because it makes us have a certain feeling, right ? in very difficult moments in my life and after they passed I looked back and said, wow, congratulations, you went through this, you survived, you one day thought that if you went through something similar you wouldn't be able to handle it, you gave it to

us, you underestimate yourself too, okay? And that's a very important thing we can deal with. human suffering when we stop underestimating ourselves, right when we go back to the whole story and we talk about what are the markings those markers the markers of my life those that marked my pain and from my pain I went and gave a Different answer when you take control of it and I don't think there is to no one, right, because that's when you say, well, it didn't kill me, and I'm here, I made my life happen, I mean, that's

a benefit, right, for our health, for our perspective on life, right, because it's as if you knew that somehow Well, rock bottom has a spring at some point you bounce and it will rise because then you go through many storms you know that time will clear a clear hour ex if you do nothing it will clear If you help the process you will see the sky faster when I was sick I decided to write my biography because I thought I was going to forget my story and my children were very young and then the phrase

came out of great desperation, yeah, and then I said, I'm going to write my biography, but I was with a neurologist, I was in the hospital, he was You said you're crazy, right? Why can't you? use the computer on the cell phone, well he said I'll give you two hours just to write per day, but I wrote the entire book on the cell phone and sent it to my email, it was 485 pages, everything was very complicated, can you imagine I was in a tangle anyway? I decided to write life is not the way we

want it, yes we have it Bru put the cover here for us life is not the way we want it I thought the title was wonderful but that's what we need to learn to understand and accept exact life was not made to make us happy all the time was exact That's what you just brought the challenge is precisely for us to be happy despite everything that happiness is knowing that's what I'm destined for and everything is there, how am I going to say it? mixed exactly for the same exact purpose Look, this was a heart

that my daughter had she said like this mom I don't know what it's like to act I love you because I don't know how to write she was very little she asked my sister to do it so they did a drawing that is a heart and here is Enzo, my eldest son he wrote it he made three characters and wrote it like this look how beautiful M hours M hours me hours how wonderful I interpreted it wasn't that he wanted to dedicate sweet hours to me Lar Bia I put this in front of me from

my hospital bed This was from my son, this one was from Isabela Isabel, she sent a heart, she made a Drawing and it stayed in front of me in front of the hospital bed and it really was motivation for me to be able to leave, how cool and when I say life isn't it's the way it is what we really want is first to understand that despite the suffering It's going to be what we're going to do with it, it's not, it's not , because that way, suffering all of us is Rules, I think there

are laws, there are laws of life, for example, gravity is a law, there's no point in thinking that you're going to rise to the last one If you walk from a building you will fly, forget it, gravity will take you to the ground, so one of the laws is that we are finite, that's a law, right? I don't know when I'm not going to live according to him, I'm going to live according to him of doing the good process, right, the good journey, that's what we're going to do, but one of the laws we have

is that we're going to suffer, exactly, that's part of the deal is that we don't want it, we want it, like, oh, God forbid, I suffer God forbid you don't understand what the condition of being a human being is in our process life is And then when we create movements, right, because a phrase that I really like, Right? They said it was from Aiston, then they said it wasn't anyway. I put a phrase that I really like Author Unknown, insanity happens when you want different results, doing the same things exactly, so when we learn to

deal with our suffering, which is already part of our kit, right, in different ways, we have a much greater chance of dealing with it, agree? No, and it's the key to creativity, right, perfect, perfect, and what creativity It's new Ares, right, you bring New Ares, right, you need to rescue, right, this spontaneity, right? It certainly suffered, I'll find others, I'll expand my network of possibilities, that's not even sometimes a solution is to do nothing and wait for nature to give the signal that it is taking you in one direction. There is an eastern thought that

says not doing is already doing something that you accept that by not doing it, when I say it, there is nothing I can do. do is you are accepting and because it does not concern your power it has nothing to do with failure, right there is no ex what am I going to do in the face of a natural phenomenon Maybe I have to wait and see what I learn from it is the flow itself, right The flow of water, for example, if you are you're going to swim against the current, I don't know if

you've ever tried it . I've already experienced it, it's horrible, the energy you spend going against the current, right ? sea ​​it will end somewhere people so this idea that we don't go into despair for Victor Frank despair means meaningless suffering So when you don't go into despair because despair is much more than what our heads put it as catastrophic anticipation exactly and that's why we also have to work not only on emotions but on thoughts and catastrophic anticipations because they are normally catastrophic, right, which is the tendency of the brain, right, it's not the

tendency of our consciousness, which is much greater than all that, but the brain has a tendency to record The bad thing is not to repeat it, okay, it's a machine made for this to survive, I can't make mistakes again so it sticks but the vast majority of things are good Well, if you're going to do some math, Wow, one day it happens so many good things and you only records the bad thing that is bad so this is also cool because it has to do with our we underestimate that we will be able to handle

it exactly but we also have a survival instinct so the Good News of a self-destructive process is wisdom because What is the wisdom he is talking about look at you look at you and when we learn to speak well then I have a dying process and now it's me with myself people me with myself that's beautiful, isn't it that's beautiful because people are always wanting, I think you already You got this, you know, many patients said, No, I'm going to be happy when my son gets married, when I don't know that when I said it,

everything was wrong , No, but think about it, you can't be happy like this, you can't be happy with this situation, you can't be happy with another situation life is not the way we want it is not so never because you keep being happy with deadlines right in installments with contingencies Hey happiness is here not now in this possibility of you talking listen you are alive you are doing Things did you understand that life is much bigger than these achievements that you Put it in your head, how can I be happy if I don't have

it? I don't know how I can. When you also have all of this, you will have joy because joy is a conditioned thing. Happiness, we don't have that tendency. We need to look at what we don't have in focus with a very large, very large magnifying glass Bru Let's go to the pipinho reporter, my dear, now that time comes, the pipinho reporter is exactly those questions that people in the sustainable human being community ask for us 15 days before you Come on, let's talk, look, go on Karina's Instagram, let's see the content and you can

send us your questions. So, based on what they saw, we'll start asking questions, let's go bru, first Why is talking about suicide still a taboo considering that according to the World Health Organization it is one of the main causes of death throughout the world, well suicide is a death that is first violent and it affects any human being because we tend to I usually say that we fall into three Areas: impotence, not knowing and lack of meaning, right, we always ask ourselves why the person left, right, so everything that affects these three areas, which are

not easy areas for us to deal with, will really make the topic a taboo, right, the situation that is, maybe we talk Well, it's better not to talk about how we work with taboos and how we work with prejudice speaking, right, bringing psychoeducation, bringing information, expanding it in a respectful way, right , but that's how it is because it really affects our survival instinct when we say the person died from cancer Person died from an Accident there is someone responsible, right in quotes in quotes because it was the cause of death now when you talk

about suicide, right? Eh, and since the expression suicide is a deliberate act of killing oneself, that means it causes everything in us that we really don't want to face and it's something so inexplicable that fear comes I don't have a truth so I prefer not to think about it, right? It's because when I can't explain it, it's an open situation that we call an open gestalt, and you have an Open configuration, you have to deal with not knowing who likes not knowing how to be no human so we learn that we have to be exactly

perfect next Bru Why is it so difficult to notice that someone close to you is thinking about suicide there are signs that are clearer to identify well first than us like that eh no not so easily we realize that the person is thinking because what they have in their my thoughts, you have no idea, right, so in suicidology we have signs that we call direct and indirect verbal signs, direct and indirect behavioral signs, let's go straight verbal, I want to die, I can't take it anymore, I would like to have a little button that would

do for everything to end This is already a manifestation and an indirect verbal sign in a little while I won't give you any more work I will stop being a burden I will stop being a failure in life Oops, all of this you need to pay attention and talk, talk a little more about this Have you thought of any situation in which you are going to do yourself any harm, even if it is suicide or self-injury or any type of self-destructive process, a sign of direct mental behavior, We have in the Brazilian Psychiatric Association what

they call 4ds depression, which they describe as the first one is associated with cases of suicide, hopelessness, helplessness and despair, so these are the behavioral signs, we have a very important warning sign if a person has a mental disorder and a previous suicide attempt, in the past we talked about 50 to 60% she would try again today we talk about 100% so we really need to pay attention to a redefinition of perception regarding this problem, okay, so this warning sign is what we really need to pay attention to, there was one attempt, there was one

associated mental disorder, let's take care of it, right, so it's going to be a There are people who say like that, they haven't done it once, okay, they've never done it again, no, but if they don't, they reframe the problem because they remember that suicide is a, you know, a definitive act for a temporary problem, no. and overnight you stop thinking about death because even more so if you have an associated mental disorder exactly because then we have one of the characteristics of suicidal behavior is Rigidity in thinking and when the person has this rigidity

in thought everything becomes everything or nothing, always or never, life or death loses flexibility, creativity, spontaneity , which we already talked about, this means that the person has a fixed thought that the schneidman will talk about Tunel Vision. In other words, at the end of the tunnel, it is. death exactly right, because she already glimpsed it, now there is a sign that I created because I always heard people in mourning talking but it seemed like the person was doing so well, it was very common and I created a sign that is false calm, because when

I was doing my doctorate I There was the first study on articulating prevention with post-vention, okay, and I felt like rewatching a movie called Twister, which is about hunting tornadoes Uhum And I say, well, I'm always very intuitive, I said, well, let's do it because I don't know what this movie is about. you want me teach good tornado hunting they start talking about why there are tornado hunting for us to avoid Tornadoes, no, but for them to look at the signs so they can do preventative work so that the damage and impacts Are not that

high, right? that harm reduction exactly reduction And then then then I'm not suicidology to be avoided you do not prevent anyone or any death Among us, we have already talked about this so suicide prevention does not mean prediction or avoidance But why do we work with the signs to survey these situations, returning to the movie Twister when I watched it There's a part where everything is too calm and people think that the hurricane the Tornado is over and they leave their houses, we can't leave these houses because it's a sign that you're in the eye

of the hurricane and I'm talking people That's what I'm going to call it false calm when someone who always told you that they were thinking about killing themselves, that they had behavior and a previous attempt at suicide and they say I'm not going to kill myself anymore, you don't need to be a little carefree, that's the false calm, why? Because as they have a thought hardened, she will do everything and a little more so that she is not banned from her act Perfect mat what are you talking about, I've only lost two patients in my

life, right? And two very, very Dear people, and one of them was a patient who I was already coming I've been following her for about 8 months and that laughing thought of I'm going to kill myself I'm going to kill myself so much that 15 days before I left the office I started doing it like this I'm going to have dinner at your house every day you know that thing uhum and I said I don't want her alone Everything is there, nursing, man, pppp, man, I said, don't leave her alone, no way, she started to

stay there, how wonderful, now I'm always waiting for you, look, food, I thought it was too good, so what happened when one day the children went to school Will stop Stopped, it was like, he asked the driver to do, I don't know what he asked, I don't know who to do, I don't know who, no one realized that everyone was thrown into tasks, everything was planning, right, it was the person and the nursing staff who just had to in nursing Ah, this comes to me when I went to see you played But you know when

you arrive and say like that, there were eight people in that house, eight people managed to blind themselves and do it. at the hairdresser the day before So everyone was there Thinking like, wow, it's super better and stuff Like that, I'm like, I'm a very dear person, but I'm really dear. Do you believe that you left me a letter exempting me from any blame, you have no idea what that made me feel like, damn, somehow? I don't know why and why when there is a suicide, we psychiatrists are investigated, it's natural for us to give

a statement, it's natural, exempting me from anything signed, I had made a document registered with a notary C days before, so it's planning, Look, I'd calm down, okay? speaking false calm The false lie when we understand that suicide is none of the person's business, that's very difficult, because we think and I think it's also an act of a strategy that this person is bringing, it's a communication uhum, okay, and This is also at the same time that we bring guilt because we think we are responsible for the other's life, but look what Generous she did

to you, at some point my first reaction was my God, where did I say it? Then I said it, people. but how could Generosa be so careful because she was a person extremely Well, because that's cool that we're talking About death by suicide can never be confused with the person's story, exactly it was that act That moment that we call no didn't take away the entire story of a beautiful person wonderful, very generous, right, she was Generous with you, even exempting you from guilt, right, even putting it registered in a notary's office, so that's why

I think we need to understand that a person is not the final act of their life, right, it's the entire book, no. It's the last chapter Exactly exactly And then We have the behavioral sign that it's important to talk suddenly if I suddenly talk to you like this we have a friendship I say Bia I'm going to leave you my books which are the most precious things in my life you know so when I was with the brain inflammation I found myself writing on the back cover for my husband to give after my death because

I thought I was going to die that's it, that's also important If suddenly I start donating my things, sorting out things, closing a bank account, I'm going to start looking for religions and I've never believed in any religion, the person keeps looking for faith, Okay, and believes in spirituality, right? Start looking for religions I remember my mother going to all the religions and taking me to all the religions Bia, that's also a behavioral sign, yes, because you're looking outside, you 're not able to organize it inside, exactly, we also have it like that, eh, solve

it the pend and take out insurance life uhum okay we also have some situations in which for example I call you and you are a person who is really very important and I will tell you that I remembered what you did and I want to thank you immensely that is a sign uhum is it now how do we, right how do we understand I agree with that why is it so difficult to realize that someone is pro It's difficult people because many suicides they people don't give clues there are many who don't give none Nothing

nothing nothing so no we don't There's a crystal ball and it's a lot of omnipotence, right, as you said, the truth was with the exact person because that moment, which is also one of the World Health Organization's characteristics of suicidal behavior, which is impulsivity, which we call acting out ex. the person reacts to that despair, that situation that gave you meaningless suffering and that moment we are not there, no matter how much the person has planned, we are not there at that moment because then we begin to understand that suicide is a unique and exclusive

act of the person who killed themselves, yes It's so redundant, but it's so difficult for us to understand, to accept, too, but we have to accept, to accept, and in the end, in the end, it's an act of that person that has nothing to do with us, we think it's logical because whoever is a person in mourning thinks because guilt is also an impotent power exactly, right, because it doesn't take anything it won't take anything but we feel guilt exactly as an impotent power I loved this definition of guilt it's close Bru for those who

lost a loved one to suicide What are the first steps to deal with guilt and suffering because exactly guilt will always come, right? Because guilt is the regret of an act you didn't do, so we feel guilty, right? Because as we Always do, and normally I don't know anyone who has felt guilt when the result did n't work out either. I blame myself because it went exactly right, right? So we will only feel guilty when the result went bad from our perspective and it went bad in that sense that, as I say, guilt is a

powerless power that doesn't get you anywhere, but we feel guilt, the antidote to guilt is us talking was the only thing I could do at that moment, with the repertoire I had with the situation and the information I had, I started to work on forgiving myself and making sure the person could forgive themselves, understanding that they had no balls. no one has crystal no one has us no I wish I had done it because of guilt I learned from an author called Med Boss from a book anguish guilt and liberation that guilt derives from the

word debt Look how interesting and what is this debt it is an unpayable debt because you puts yourself in debt and you put you who you are the creditor and the debtor at the same time you start to think that you should have so that's why we say should say would say Would that's not it the verb goes like this I could I would say right Something That wasn't possible you knew you weren't exact If If you knew, then the first work with guilt is to forgive yourself because you didn't have enough repertoire for you

to know that the outcome was going to be suicide and in relation to suffering it is also inherent because obviously people say like this until when am I going to stay with this open wound Karina and I say which It's the size and dimension of your infinite love and I say well, the suffering won't be infinite but if grief is the price of love, it's the price to pay, right? It's the price we're going to pay for the story you lived and that tells me reminds me of a chronicle by Ruben Alves that I think

is beautiful an excerpt from this chronicle he brings the following that there was a husband who had the death of his wife and he goes with the gods to have a chat with the gods speaking Gods give my wife back to me because it hurts a lot and the gods speak against death We can't do much, but we have a solution to your suffering , it's to make you forget the history you had with your partner, with your wife. I keep my wife alive inside me so that's what I always say to people mourning suicide,

the guilt will always come but be careful because it's a trap and the trap is that you should have done something that you didn't have the repertoire to do and the suffering it will occupy you for a long time, you will be left raw But you will gradually make your way out of the orientation towards loss, which we call a Dual process of the grieving process model, okay And that we leave the orientation towards loss And you get a guidance for restoration for your life this takes time, certainly a crossing is a crossing because you

slowly begin to realize that life will call you And then it's up to you, life doesn't stop, right? Life doesn't stop, it doesn't exactly Lenine, I think it's beautiful and look what the name of the song patience patience knows exactly life asks and calls for us to discover moment you know we say good since I can't deal with this situation I'm going to deal with my suffering and I'm going to honor it honoring suffering means you Become a person worthy for you to talk to This is mine too and I'm going to deal with it

And then you're going to do it and continue with it and I'm going to do the things I say the most paralyze you come back Eastern thought says right You fell sometimes you got up eight times it's not exactly and the problem is not that we fall because when we suffer we say why did I fall I have to avoid my suffering at any cost and the fact that I fall is not what We have to hope that we find resources to get up to get up Don't give up don't insist insist persist patience in

this process patience a lot of patience for Bru when talking about palliative care many imagine only the physical care of the patient how it is possible to integrate care emotional and psychological during this process, look, palliative care is integrative care, so when we say existential integrative because it has these three dimensions, not only physical, not only emotional, psychological, spiritual, uhum, truth, Palar is a term, right, you put a blanket, you put a shelter, you right? giving this person a chance, right, rescuing dignity in the face of education for death and life, right, because when we

talk about, education for death, it means How is your life while death has not arrived, right? And then we, death is part of life is a total stage, right? So we need to understand how you are really going to put a blanket, a shelter, or a blanket, for this suffering, Cicile Saunders, who brings this idea of ​​total pain, I think this proposal is beautiful, right, because it always brings There is something to be done about human suffering, pain human because the pain is total, it's existential, right, and it's for everyone, it's for everyone, everyone has

passed, it's for everyone , we're careful, we're talking about death with dignity, exactly, right, It's to honor life, to honor life, perfect, next Bru. What are the main motivations for suicide, as they vary between genders and age groups, so motivations we have to differentiate that they are not causes exactly, okay, so motivations They have a multifactorial character, Right ? language of suicidology precipitating factors, which is the last straw, predisposing factors, which is an entire context, including the way of coping, whether I have a fragile way of dealing with problems, whether I have difficulty dealing with

frustrations with disappointments that are all we have in life and that cause suffering, so this is part of the predisposing factors that every context you need to consider, so speaking, right, the main motivations are suffering, I usually say that suffering is the great villain, right? the big culprit now because it's multifactorial what suffering is for me is different from what suffering is for you I react to it and that's why it's so difficult you know because we don't have a rule people tend to ask me Carina has a profile from someone who isn't me I

don't like this word suicidal because you can't confuse the act with the person, so there is a profile of someone who is going to kill themselves, not suffering as we said, right, people were born, right, existence, you will Suffer now, everything will depend on the answer you give to their suffering there, how do they , how do they vary between genders, there is the gender that we usually say that for every death by suicide of a man, there are four attempts by women Look, that's interesting, I understand what you're trying to say that women try

more the man achieves more then he succeeds the man dies by suicide by There are There are several explanations, I don't want to be a reductionist, but one of the justifications is that when a man attempts suicide, he first has a more aggressive character, the characteristic is greater, right, he has greater aggression. Women communicate more and men also use lethal methods. women are more aggressive, they try more because we women talk more, we communicate more and when I bring up the definition of self-destructive processes and suicide, which is an act of communicating pain felt and

not culturally consented to, we have men who do not deal with own emotions and then that idea of ​​rigid thought, impulsivity, it is enhanced much more than women, the two age Groups of human development that most occur in suicide, adolescence and old age, see, these are two situations in which we experience existential crises. They are crises, the word crisis comes from the word separation, separates your action from something known Yes, let's talk about adolescence, you, teenager, left the heteronomy that is autonomy directed towards your parents, you stopped carrying out tasks, using your parents' beliefs and

start to develop your own autonomy, it's a crisis, right? Because that way you leave a parameter, you use a reference and you have to separate yourself from what is known, which is always a bad thing, the unknown isn't that it's bad, the unknown brings discomfort It brings a lot because it takes you out of your comfort zone. Of course, here we have a crisis in human development, also because when you get old, your friends die, you start to face a limitation, you stop being, you know, the person who is the provider that bring home money,

you retire and we you know that unfortunately here in Brazil it is very difficult to be a retired person, so everything That was known will also cause you to go into crisis Apart from the physical difficulties that we see, exactly, you know, the rigidity of maintaining autonomy autonomy Did you see that both sides are autonomy and how do we talk about suicide suicide is death the only death that the person chooses like when they are going to die so autonomy becomes a certain omnipotence and a certain manipulative character that I will choose the way I'm

going to die otherwise because every world that was born got a password when it was born, right, we don't remember, we don't know what number it is, it's not now what causes suicide to be the queue jumper because it will anticipate, right, what will happen naturally, right, For everyone the human being, then we see that, right, in these two situations, adolescence and old age, we have a crisis of autonomy of wanting to have control over something perfect and all you feel when you suffer is that you don't have control over anything, that's not it. Exactly

perhaps you have the biggest challenge of admitting this truth, right? what helps in overcoming children of parents who committed suicide And how can they find Life after this loss of their children, you know, their children, okay, actually, so first we talk about process of mourning we don't talk about overcoming some Mourning scholars say that we don't overcome grief, right, but I like to play, I'm a transgressor and I'm going to use the word overcoming in the sense that we need to have super actions, I understand, to overcome super actions to overcome superiors those that I

know because then that does justice to the question Who are you besides your dorit exactly overcoming I have to do new actions that I didn't even suppose new ones exactly that I had I'm going to create, right? I mean in fact there is a book that is beautiful Kimura, who is the Travelers' baggage, he says that necessity is the mother, necessity is the mother of invention It's true, it's true, we only create when we have the need for something exact, too creative, right, when a father or a mother, right? they kill and I used it

in my doctoral study which is the mourning process of the child of the person who killed themselves, you see, it is the mourning of those who remain, it is the mourning of those who remain and even that of father and mother, that was my story I went to research I got into The doctorate because I was bereaved gestational, right, and based on my gestational grief, I said, I want to know if suicide grief has its own specificity that is different from other griefs, including because I was experiencing perfect gestational grief, not by chance, it was

at that moment that my mother fell ill due to Big heart, I already had her partnership because when I miscarried, my mother came to me after the curettage and said, you lost a lot with me, right, Karina , I said, I lost my mother, I lost an Adolescence, a childhood, but today I'm a psychologist to make a difference, I have a book practically written, which is the gestalt therapy book, which was, you know, my first book, which I had three editorial refusals, anyway, she said it like this, Karina From now on, you won't worry about

me anymore, I'll teach you, including how you're going to do it. a management of suicidal behavior and I will teach you how to change the game Swear, so she gave me the partnership uhum when she accepted what I was doing I said mom seriously swear right That's what I asked and she said yes so I said so then I'm going to release my book suicide and Gestalte you will be by my side and this launch was beautiful it was the connection it was our reconnection um and she said and she was cute because I signed

the book and she said can I sign it too because I am a co-author because I am the camicas I who inspired I'm the one who inspired it because I put it in this whole book, I put it in a different cover with another edition, but this was the first book. Why am I telling you this? us ​get it from the online store so as not to get confused, the title is the same, the title is the same, ok Uh, I said good, so I'm going to one, who was there, right? It was the institution

I worked at as an undergraduate, he was demanding that I do a PhD, she brought it warm You can take this ice cream Hmm and then I said well I'm going to change the topic because I want to work with the people who stay and even because I was in gestational grief I said well I want to know if grief due to suicide is different, well that's it. that I started and that's when I I researched mourning for suicide, right, mourning for the children of people who killed themselves, this is wonderful, it's the perfect new

cover, perfect Uh, there's Bruno, I'm going to ask for the Suicide book and I mourn because there's the Dragonfly, uh, that's right here, my mother was 18 She was hospitalized several times with a big heart, she no longer tried. I was in my doctorate, studying the grieving process of children of people who killed themselves the 17th time. That means, before the last hospitalization, she was at home, she lived with my sister my sister was traveling and she stayed at home and I received the cover of My doctoral thesis which is a Dragonfly she talked about

why Dragonfly Carina years ago in 2004 the same year I miscarried I had a Japanese client whose mother died because of aneurysm and the father came to me because I was Japanese speaking Karina you know that our culture is a very closed culture so Karina I would like you to work with my son in his grief because my wife died when he was 4 years old and he is now nine, he never talked about the subject about his mother, right? Then what happens, I open the playful Arm, he sees the materials inside my closet and

He sees origami paper which is what I do uhum yes he made it like this origami paper I said do you like it he said it's the only thing I did with mom well the bridge a certain session he starts Talking can I do origami then I I said let's do it together so I said Origami you know tururu which is the bird of Hope well he's singing a song in Japanese and doing origami I don't know how to speak Japanese Uhum but I knew that the word tombo meant damselfly acat tambo tombo I played

After this session, Cambou played After this session I played on the internet Bia, then the idea appears that mother dragonflies produce and they have 24 hours to 48 hours to live and they leave their children, I said guys, this is a perfect metaphor for my work which is the grieving process of the child of the person who killed themselves so all the children of the dragonflies they become orphans they become of they become orphans how interesting And then I said this people This will be the metaphor and my mother was at home biaza and she

said why then I tell this story about this client, right, I also take it after this session, right After I see it, I take this story to this client of mine And then he says, right, I say, look at the dragonflies, they die. they reproduce, they leave the babies and they die Do you remember any story it was the first time the boy got teary-eyed Mare and I say like this You have a look like that a lot, don't you say like that, you're here looking like you are crying Do you remember anything And then

he says I remember my mother buried in white not lying in white I asked my father they buried his mother in a wedding dress and then it was time for us to discuss the grieving process which he didn't talk about nothing nothing nothing I told my mother about it and then the emotion comes because I tell her this story about the boy's boy My thesis was to be defended on the 7th of May on the 12th of February she dies a little but you were already It was ready, I hadn't already done it, I was

in this otir, this possibility of being kind, how beautiful, Bia, can you imagine me defending a doctorate, 4 years of study in the flesh, when she died, she asked to be cremated uhum, we get to her then she I knew about this story, well, how did she end up with that bipap mask Uh, I was feeling very helpless during her hospitalization, okay, before her death, okay, And then, Hey, I did a directed experiment, I said, mom, breathe, okay, Hey, let's go, I'll put the Hail Mary of gô because She was a lyrical singer Oh how

beautiful, right, pianist, I placed her there in the ICU Hail Mary from gô, breathe, imagine that you are in a very sunny field, very flowery and that you will alleviate this suffering that you are in, right, and I saw at that time so much my impotence As for hers, I think it decreased quite well, she died and asked to be cremated. When we are in the Morumbi cemetery, which is a Campo Florido, there is no tomb, we bury my mother's ashes, we put the grass on top, my son. Enzo comes to me, mom, the family

in life and death together, in a little while Isabela says mom, look at the animal you like there, a group I've never seen, I've only seen Dragonfly separately, a group of dragonflies together, I said guys, I'm crazy Pinch because it's not like I'm teaching but I'm, you imagine I was raw, right? I said it like that, people, I 'm delirious here, right? Mibilisca That's what you're seeing, a Libor group when I arrive from the cemetery I play on the internet dragonfly group is called ephemera from the word ephemera which is short for ephemerality of ephemerality

Bia that was really the hope I had, including Having the strength to defend My doctoral thesis almost like life telling you life is like this and it continues, it's just that it's ephemeral and it's ephemeral, life is giving me tips and then I had strength with this story, I put it at the beginning of the introduction, this story is a beautiful thing, it's And then like that every time there You'll see in life it's not the way we want it Every time I was in trouble a Dragonfly appears even today I swear it's even with

brain inflammation so here I have it I even took a photo because I told people no one will believe me neither do I but In a little while I'll show you, it's not a normal insect that you see. And every time I lose faith, a Dragonfly comes along, in shape, you know, look. Remembering this one, this Dragonfly that appeared was an earring, I went for an MRI of the lung, in addition to having brain inflammation, I had pneumonia, I see in the hospital locker room an earring in the shape of a debel, it could be

anything, for sure, God, the first one, the second photo was in the farm that my mother created and built ex no in the chandelier on the last day of the year in 2014 she My Husband showed up and sent me this unbelievable photo, I don't fully believe it, what happens more to get worse than to get better, right, better? I live on the seventh floor of an apartment in São Paulo, in greater São Paulo, the seventh floor I was going to go back to postdoc, I was going to see people I didn't want to see

who even made my brain inflammation a lot worse, uh, the next day, right, I was even asking to dream about my mother because the next day I was going to USP, uh, I ask you to dream about her in a little while, Enzo, mom, there's an animal here on the blind, this Dragonfly, she's going to the chandelier that I took a photo of, she came in, I saw myself as that little 10-year-old child desperate because I thought the dragonfly was going to burn to death and I said for the love of God do I don't

know what then he said Come on, grandma is going to die again when he says that look where he goes she goes she comes out of the chandelier that I couldn't reach uhum and she go to the Minions here there is a minion here next door so I take the libol and go to the balcony she comes back she stays here Jennifer who was my children's nanny at the time she said Dona Karina ISO what is this for the love of God she is evangelical That What is that, I said what was it, she Turned

away from you, Ms. Karina, and I tell her like this, talking to Libel, she seems crazy, but I tell her, mom, everything you've ever done, you needed to do in your life, now it's With me, I understood it perfectly, it's perfect, there it was, that was the reconnection right there. I went back to the dot, the Real connection was aaaa, like, the penny dropped, now it's exactly up to me, now it's up to me, that's the thing, right? that all this is killed is to tell, right? that the mourning of a father or a mother

is that we are left with driftwood, that we understand that our parents were able to stay with us for as long as they could, even if they have killed themselves, this will not be taken away from us and I get a lot of emotion because as a son or daughter you are realizing that you too can be the result not of transgenerational psychic transmission which is of self-destructive processes this is not your legacy but that you can give different answers you can do different do different when the ball passes to you now with you exactly

because we are able to break the vicious circles we are able to do Differently everything my mother did in terms of suicide attempts is what I have done differently perfect not that I judge her not that I want to do it and not that I have never thought about killing myself, yes I did but I want to do it differently because I am a different story so the grief of a child of a person who killed themselves and that is not even committing suicide because committing suicide is a verb linked to sin or crime it

wasn't a sin nor was it a crime it was suffering he couldn't handle it, that means it's not that you won't handle it, it means you'll develop a different structure, a different response to that situation exactly Then you make your story, right? So this Dragonfly was a help I had to know how to get all of this out of the way, I'm really going to start seeing Deb in a different way, let's go back there bruh, in the process of dealing with a loss as significant as that of a child, how can we learn to

live with absence and give new meanings to Life? Yes, I organized a book because about maternal grief, it's called a setback of a birth and this setback of a birth, the title sells a phrase from Chico Boar's own song, Right, piece of me, piece of me or half ripped from me ISO and that's right because we There are no children for us to bury them, right? This is a nonsense pain for me, as soon as you Talk like this, people went out of line with what was expected from that perspective, so much so that we

don't have it. I think this image is beautiful. It was offered to me, including by one of the people who wrote the chapter on mourning due to suicide, which leaves a hole, that's exactly it, right? Eh, so So really, this is a mourning that we say is a mourning without a name, as I say it is a mourning for suicide, it is a mourning without a name, you know, because we don't have that father who, right, died, we become orphans, right, we don't have a specific name no title for that one or that one type

of mourning mourning we talk about maternal mourning paternal mourning But it's a pain without a name, right? It doesn't even have a name, losing a child, right? What do we learn in maternal mourning and that I decided to organize this book when I was in Argentina in the movement of the Mothers, of the mothers of Prç Rosada, I thought that movement was so beautiful, right ? Of mothers who had their children killed, they Wanted to bury their children, right? for me it was very strong I said, I need to do work that I can, right?

I work with maternal grief, which is one of my goals, right? To do this reception But it's not for this mother to overcome it, but for her to endure the absence and bring much more gratitude from a story that he had with his son, so he went so early Yes, every child goes early because our expectation is that he will bury us ex, right, but it's the idea that this is a life and that our children often gave us the conditions for us live even if it is just a few years but a time in

which the We felt life within us and even if it was an adopted child, right, there is this relationship, I think it's beautiful, right, this possibility of us generating love, offering love, offering care, right, so when a mother comes close to me and says Kina, I'm devastated. And I say, it would be strange if you weren't there, you weren't there, right? And we're going to make this journey because we'll never be the same after the death of a Child, we'll never be the same after a suicide, in fact, never will we It is after someone's

death that We love it, for sure, we just need to learn to look at what we will all do and how we will honor this story and make this story a love story that no one will take away, even for transgressing death, you know, Bia, I'm talking about death, you're not You're going to take away this story that belongs to me, you're not going to let me stop Honoring The Lost Son, stop honoring the lost mother, the lost father is Honoring that's perfect, perfect is you And that also differentiates between losses and departures, losing, we

only lose what we never had So from Death, I talk about real death, right? It's that death that really hurts but I never lost. So that's my transgression and my indignation with death, which is what the departure is like . you may have changed the prediction there But life is not predictable that's when I say good that, right? So today I see every time I miss my mother a lot, a libel appears, I said that connection was not Lost, right? so she is no longer seen but still It's felt, this is wonderful and I saw

life and then we become part of your life, right, in a way that you're honoring the life that she once had in her life, that's very beautiful, right? It's very beautiful, very beautiful, we're with a hole, isn't it, this statue is beautiful ? very cute friendly son and he listened to our entire conversation and he threw words at me here, okay, you're going to hit and whatever comes to mind you're going to fight back, okay, if nothing comes, he's polite, you can say step and he'll say, okay, because he's polite to be a good vibe,

accept the person, it's not the moment, okay, accept, accept, I'll educate him well Oh, the sweet face, friendly deletion, So let's go, one love is everything, two transformation, transforms the action, goes beyond its form and its action, perfect resilience existential firmness the ability for you to hold on tight this overcome, right, this is super actions Overcoming perfect four complete the sentence welcoming is what sediments the soil that was fragmented by pain welcoming is the path that makes you understand that this is what we We need to make sure that we are welcoming to others in

life, right ? and a the only alternative and direction for our lives so that we can actually follow some trails, it didn't work, you turn around, but you never take it, just the detour, take the entire trail, redo routes, redo routes all the time, we were born for this, six, it doesn't come with Capital F is not something that is the acarajé moments that you can give yourself, they are the opportunities for you to feel alive in your existence seven complete the sentence self-knowledge is the way for you to redeem yourself existentially is the way

for you to understand that the each one Yours burden and your privilege your story is eight empathy empathy I don't believe that we put ourselves in the other's shoes, you know, because the other's place is always the other's, always the other's, right? I like the idea that if the other is in the mud, you will come in and talk, let's not let go of our hands Now I can do it here in this place with you that I can help you, right? Exactly, if you could change something in the world, what would you change? The

denial of human suffering and 10 a sentence or a thought for you to leave behind can It can be yours, it can be from any author, however you want, the meaning belongs to the sentid, the one who feels the pain, I believe it belongs to the sentid, the one who feels the pain, is a phrase that I created during my father-in-law's grieving process and that brings the idea that only we know the pain we feel and that It takes time for us to organize our pains, our difficulties and believe that everything is ok, but we

also value our delights, right, and perfect Hey Cait Caitano, everyone knows the pain and delight of being who you are, perfect, my dear, I wanted you thank you say it was wonderful wonderful I'm really grateful that you're Here with me today, it was really good, really good, and I wanted to offer you some little gifts, let's go, delicious, this one is the new book, it was released in November, which is a time for me, which are my phrases, hey, I decided to put them in there are 365 phrases You can continue opening it whenever you

want, you can take today or tomorrow, it is timeless, the important thing is that you put down here the feeling that woke you up. the feeling that we it connected, right, wow, and here, I already opened it. It's not by chance, ethics as a guide, put ethics in your character, do what is right and not what is easiest, which is beautiful. So we will be connected there every day, delicious, there is this book here which was the book I wrote during the pandemic which is happiness and there is another one here which is also depressive

minds which I include the three dimensions of the disease of the century which is body mind spirit So I think there is something that is tell us somewhere, somewhere moment but we haven't run out of gifts come on we have pipinho here a pipinho ecobag with our motto here is make it happen and inspire Pod people I went so you were here so let's go here we have a notebook for you to write down all your your projects for them to come true will come true and here 's a little pipinho mug for you when

you have tea or coffee or a chocolate to remember us let's leave everything here aside ok later the children I'll tidy it all up so you can throw everything away they they're already there, now you're going to look at this camera here, you don't need to look at me and give all your messages where they think you are, like, access to postgraduate studies, whatever you want, on Instagram, you have them on mine, you have all your contacts But also me I have a website Karina fukumitsu pcom.br I have my podcast if there is life, it's

in its sixth season so if you look on my website there is all the data and also on Instagram there's my Bio So there it is Karina focum mitson the postgraduate course can also be accessed The link is there so I coordinate it we are entering the sixth class of the postgraduate course in suicidology the only requirement is that you have a degree, right? any area, as I told you, because the Objective is that we can expand the scope of understanding of the field of suicidology, working on prevention of self-destructive processes, prevention of suicide, mourning

due to suicide, autoimmune illnesses, self-injurious processes, including non-suicidal self-injury, well, I also coordinate, you know, another postgraduate course in the approach I work on, gestalt therapy, I take some courses, well, you will find all my material there on my website and I want to talk about more than promoting my work, I want Sending it to you who watched us is a big hug of thanks, this moment that I spent with you is worth it, but it's worth this moment that I spent with you, Bia, you are charming, I have to thank you, I promise you,

because this is really how I'm leaving, I came from São Paulo and with great fear of not being able to bring some words to you and when I leave with the idea of ​​gratitude it's really to prioritize that we are this connection that even at a distance, even on the internet, we need to humanize ourselves so I have a lot of gratitude P for this moment for this situation which became a carajé moment, I will never see a Dragonfly again without a Transcendent meaning, my love, thank you very much, reciprocal gratitude, you can be sure

of this, dear, we are closing another episode of kite powder and today I went with this wonderful woman who I only knew by Karina networks fuco Mitsu Look if I were you, if you don't know her, please go there and follow her Instagram, there you will see everything in her bio, it's worth it . experiences about being a real human being and here in the pod people community we know and know that only knowledge and self-knowledge can really empower us to live a much better life and be a sustainable human being for those who don't

follow the channel please follow please share share the Bell to receive all the news because here we really believe that in this propagation we will always be connected, thank you very much and see you next time, you can