You know, I'm probably the most expensive copywriter you just can't hire. Because my thought process has always been, if I could write a sales letter and make a h 100red,000, 200,000, 2 million, 5 million off of a sales letter, which I have done, why would I let somebody else pay me 20,000 30,000 $40,000 to write a sales letter for them when they're going to go make 3, four, 5, 10 million with it? Jim Edwards Besteller copyrightiting secrets. >> You have to be able to come up with something that's going to work. >> But does that
mean I have to study for years? Does that mean I have to do it for other people and pay my dues and all that? No. What I recommend is learning copy hacking, which is the shortcut. So, copy hacking basically comes down to when all of this stuff is aligned, your sales copy can be average or even below average and you will crush. >> The second one you say that is you need to find their hot buttons. So, how do you think that people should approach this? I'm going to give you one of my super secret
hacks for doing this. >> Please do it. >> Those are my two ways to to figure out hot buttons. Pretty lickety split. If you want to make a great offer, there are four areas that you need to address. Ready? My sales went up 250% That night. I was able to move out of the trailer I was literally living in into a house. And then I did it again and again and again. That's how you can do more in a month or two than somebody could do in 10 years. [Music] Jin Edwards, thank you so much
for being here, man. I saw you. I mean, I met you, not met you. I heard about you the first time from your copyrighting secrets book and I was studying a lot of Russell Branson and then there was this guy in the in the the book, Jin Edwards, and I thought, okay, who's this guy? because I I I actually I I thought that I had studied everyone when it comes to copyrightiting like Gary Harbert, Gary Bman, Gary Jin Schwarz, all these guys, you know, but I never heard of you. So, it's really cool. I read
a little bit about your book and now I'm talking to you. So, it's really an honor to be here. And the first question, Jim, that I have for you is for the few people that don't know you and and they want to know you, can you tell me who are you and what do you do right now so people can get a little bit a better like view of you? That's a really well first of all I to even be mentioned like in the Gary Benga or Eugene Schwarz or or or Gary Howard especially who
was kind of a very interesting character is is very flattering. >> Um who am I? I'm a guy who had something To sell back in the 90s, like before you were born, and I went on the internet and I realized that just putting something up on the internet wouldn't make it sell. I had to learn the words that would make people buy, try, click, sign up, or call on the phone. And so I embarked on this journey of figuring out how to write copy, but I did not set out to be a copywriter. And I
did certainly didn't set out to be where I am now. >> Yeah. >> And you know, I tell everybody that, you know, I'm probably the most expensive copywriter you just can't hire. Because my thought process has always been if I could write a sales letter and make a h 100,000 200,000 2 million5 million off of a sales letter which I have done why would I let somebody else pay me 20,000 30,000 $40,000 to write a sales letter for them when they're going to go make three four five 10 million with it. >> So it just
never I never wanted to be a copywriter for other people. In fact I don't even consider myself a copywriter. I consider myself more of a copy hacker. >> Yeah. because I'm all about the shortcut to getting the result in order to have the sales message done, get the ad done, create the marketing content. >> Um, now I have a pretty diverse background in that I got a degree in history, which qualified me to do nothing other than teach history or Go into 100% commission sales. But it did teach me how to write, how to form
an argument. >> Yeah. >> Then I went into 100% commission sales where if you can't sell, you can't eat. So you get real good at looking at people, sizing people up, >> taking cues, trying different gambits and and and phrases and hooks to try and keep people's interest. And if you notice, a lot of the really good sales Copywriters have been in commission persontoperson sales. >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course, Gary Halbert used to talk about that. He he used to say that copyrightiting is salesmanship in print. So, exactly. And yeah, if you can get a
job like selling like real oneonone person to person, you can get way better at copy. But I never did that. Maybe that's why I'm bad. >> No, I'm sure you're great. >> So, >> thank you. >> The point is where am I now? Let's let I'll compress that whole history. Um I'm somebody who has sold a lot, failed a lot, figured out a lot of stuff. I wrote my book Copywriting Secrets to help people who where I was 30 years ago who had something to sell but didn't know how to sell it and they didn't
want to learn copywriting and they didn't want to >> become a copywriter and they either Weren't willing or weren't able to pay an expensive copywriter. >> Yeah. >> And so that's where my book came from from my direct experience. That book is all my experience baked into that puppy. >> Yeah. >> And so where I am now is I help people with my software platform. I developed a original platform back in 2006. Modified it. Had a software that sold over 100,000 people into it um with another Company. We don't really push that anymore. And I've
got my new platform now that has AI baked into it. So, I've actually been developing copywriting software for almost 20 years. >> Whoa, that's really interesting. That's cool. >> So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you just say something that's so Interesting. I I don't even know if people in the audience know noticed it, but you just said that you wrote a copyrightiting book for people that want don't want to learn copyrightiting. So, that that's really interesting. Yeah. And you also say that you don't consider yourself like a a copywriter but a copy hacker
because you can always find like these shortcuts. >> So what are exactly this thing that you said like copy hacking? What is this and What are these shortcuts that you talk about? >> So I'll take two seconds to to to explain what copy hacking is. All right, we'll take a couple minutes. So what is copy hacking? So, copy hacking is kind of like taking an exercise pill. Not an exercise pill, a diet pill. That back in the 80s there was this thing called dexatrim. It was speed. Now it's illegal. Then it was a diet pill.
But basically, it's kind of like, think About this. Nobody wants to work out, but everybody wants a six-pack abs and a sexy body. >> Of course, >> no one wants to go to the gym. >> So, but there you go. You're young. your metabolism still working. So what you got to do is figure out how do I create the sales me and it really what you need what we're talking about here are sales messages ads and then marketing content And that is basically everything from video sales letters to fulllength sales letters to Facebook ads to
blogs and and video scripts and YouTube scripts and all that stuff. You you have to be able to come up with something that's going to work. >> Yeah. >> But does that mean I have to study for years? Does that mean I have to do it for other people and pay my dues and all that? No. So copy hacking Basically comes down to knowing who you are and how that's relevant to the person that you're targeting. Okay? You got to you you only talk in terms of about yourself that are relevant to them making a
decision about why they should buy from you. >> Okay. >> The second thing you need to do is define clearly your ideal customer avatar. Now the ideal customer avatar is Not demographics, it's psychoraphics. Demographics are things like I target men between the ages of 40 and 45 with 1.2 two wives and 2.3 kids making x amount. It's like I just feel bad for the.3 kid. I mean, it's And demographics never sold anybody. >> Yeah, >> demographics help you identify people. They help you find people on like a platform or something like that. But what you
need to know are their hot Buttons. Because if I know what makes you react, if I know what makes you emotional, then I know how to sell you. Because people buy an emotion and they justify on logic. So all I have to do is Yes. C >> can you give the audience an example of for example maybe what what is a a common hot button in a certain market? For example, maybe weight loss. So people can have more of a a feel of what you mean. >> So a hot button might be fear of your
spouse leaving you because you're fat. >> Yeah. >> That's a hot button. A hot button is a fear. It's the thing like all the greats talk about if you really want to sell somebody know what wakes them up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. Not what's mildly annoying, but what wakes them up in the middle of the night going, "Holy crap, if I don't solve this, my wife's going to leave me. My Kids's going to end up a stripper. I mean, my my, you know, my dog's going to bite me. Everything
I'm going to lose my house." That kind of stuff. Yeah, that's even >> that that's even a way to actually find your market, right? Because if you're working in a market that don't have like a hot button, then maybe you should go to one that that has a very like a a very big hot button that you can press over and over again. >> Well, some people probably would love to have learned that lesson because many people aren't doing what you just said even though that's obvious. >> Yeah. >> So, you got to know who
you are and where it makes sense for you to go after stuff. Okay. It doesn't make any sense for me to go after or people that are going through menopause even though half the people on this planet will go through menopause. >> Yeah. >> I can't sell a menopause product. Okay. >> Of course. >> So, I got to have the the the hot buttons. Then the third part is you got to have a really great offer. And your offer can be either a an offer stack, which is all the stuff they're going to get, or
a call to action, which is an invitation to the next process. Okay? So, the next step in the sales process. So, What are you selling? You got to know that. It's got to make sense to the person you're trying to sell it to, and it's got to make sense that you're the one selling it. >> And I know this sounds really obvious, but most people screw this up. Yeah. >> And so when you have this level of everything just making sense, then the last part of CO here, I'm just going to fix something here. Just
give me a sec. Through the magic of this board that my Wife was like, "You don't really need that." I said, "Honey, I really do need this board. This is amazing." >> Of course you do. >> Um, so yeah, I got to have all the toys. The last part, the last part of copy hacking is what we call frameworks. [Music] >> And a framework is like the framework of a video sales script, a salesletter script, an email script, an ad script. Every single successful piece of copy Can be taken back to a framework. A and
a framework is different than a template because a framework is is is it is a is a methodology that's baked into getting a specific result. So it a framework can contain a template. But the bottom line is there are frameworks for ads that work. There are frameworks for video sales letters that work. There are so like a framework for a sales letter is problem agitate solve. Okay. And introduce problem make the problem Worse. then introduce a solution. Now there are other frameworks actually work better. So there's problem agitate eliminate solve. What's that? That's something new.
Here's the problem. Make it worse. Pull the rug out from under them of all the things that they think will solve this problem. Then introduce the solution. Wow, that's a framework that works better. So, but by learning a framework And applying all this stuff to it, here's the dirty little secret. Are you ready? >> Yes. >> When all of this stuff is aligned, your sales copy can be average or maybe even a little below average. But because everything makes so much sense, your offer spoton, it ties right into their hot buttons, it makes sense that
you're offering it and you're using a framework that makes somebody's Brain go, "Yep, yep, yep, yep. I'll take it." Your sales copy can be average or even below average. And you will crush >> Yeah. >> somebody with the perfect sales letter where one of these is out of alignment. And most people's stuff, one of these four pillars is out of alignment. >> Yeah, I got it. Yeah. Just a question, Jim. So, from what I from what I just got from your your your u your little presentation over there. >> First of all, you need to
know who you are and if it makes sense for you to sell what you're selling. Otherwise, people will find it strange. >> Then you need to know what gets them uh motivated to buy, which is like the hot buttons. >> Yep. Then after you have to you need to have a really good offer that people actually want to buy in the first place. So that's the the third scenario. >> And then after that you need to put all These things into a framework that you know that actually works because then you don't have to guess
what what you're doing. You just put it there and then if the framework works it will probably work for you too and then you'll make money. This is what I got from your Bob. What is this? What? My board. >> Yeah, that that thing over there that you just said buy, try, click, >> buy, try, click, sign up, or call slash Zoom. Those are the only things that you can get somebody to do. >> The only thing the only purpose of copy is to get somebody to buy, try, click, sign up, or call, or jump
on a Zoom. That's it. That's all they can do. And so when you understand that and you're like, "Oh, this copy don't make no sense because I don't know what I'm supposed to do." But do you see how lining all this stuff up simplifies everything? >> Yeah, of course. Yeah. I just have a question which is h what tips do you have for people to actually find out about all these uh four pillars to to actually discover them? For example, uh the the first one I think people will understand because you you I mean who
you are, you actually need to sell something that you know about. >> As you said, you can't like sell menopause stuff because you're a man. >> Yeah. I mean, you can >> Thank you for noticing. You didn't misgender me. Yes, I'm a man. >> I didn't. >> Hey, you say that you say that we should not talk politics. >> That wasn't politics. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Anyway, let's before we go down the rabbit hole of anyway, just we'll pause that there. Okay. >> So, how do you figure out who you are? Like who you
are and and how it relates To what you sell and what you should offer. This is this is the key. Okay, >> it's real simple. >> So, when I decided I was going to jump into the world of online sales, this will let you know this was a while back, brother. Okay, >> I'm going to show you some. This is a relic. This is a relic. You see this as selling your home alone. >> Whoa. >> I I created I wrote a book that I started selling on the internet, but I tried to get it
published. Couldn't get it published. Threw it into a drawer. >> Dude, I'm even Don't even know if you know what this is. See this package which I sold on the internet. Do you know what that is? >> Of course, I had this for that's a here in Brazil we called a video cassette. Maybe cassette tape or maybe I don't know how to say >> VHS cassette tape man exactly. >> So I was selling this thing in a clamshell with a VHS tape and this this was the book. This is the only surviving copy of the
book >> that I went down and had made at Kinkos. Sold that for a hundred bucks online. >> And the reason why I could do that was because I had been a mortgage broker. I had been a real estate agent. So what I was doing was I was reaching back and I Was helping who I used to be back in the day. So I had to sell two houses without an agent and I was able to do that in 30 days at the same time. That was the story that I used to sell it. So
I knew how to solve a problem. I had solved the problem for myself. I was reaching back and helping who I used to be. >> Yeah. Another thing that you can do is look at who do you love and who could you would You really like to help right now. I'll give another example. I met a guy taught a conference in the UK back in 2004 and I met a guy his name was Paul Chivers Greersonen. Really nice man. Super nice dude. To this day he sends me a Christmas card every year. Oh, >> he
his mission in life was to make sure that his child with autism grew up as as normally in society as possible. and he created a membership site for Parents of autistic kids where he just shared what was going on with his kid, things that he learned, and he built a beautiful business out of helping his kid and helping people. And so, literally, his business was built out of people that were close to him that needed his help. and he was just able to help them and and leverage that into a business. >> Yeah. Yeah. >>
So, what you want to do is basically What makes sense for you is to help people that you used to be or help somebody that's close to you now in order to solve a problem or satisfy a desire. Again, just keeping it simple. Like, holy crap, everybody wants to say to hell with their past. It's, oh, I'm tired of I You couldn't pay me to be a real estate agent now. But I have done tons of copywriting training and business training for real estate agents, for brokers. I used to get flown All over the country.
I spoke at Coldwell Bankers International event last year. I'll be speaking at their event this year in Las Vegas. Um, but I wouldn't want to be a real estate agent again. But that doesn't mean I got to say to hell with that. I leverage the story of all the stuff I did as a real estate agent, what I know now, and how they can use it to so it makes perfect sense why I'm helping them. So, don't hide from your past. Embrace the past or Embrace the problems of the present. Solve them. And there's your
million dollar idea. >> Got it. Jim, let me ask you something. What problem do you see for like like for example if someone just hires maybe a doctor or something in a a subject that he doesn't really care about but he wants to make money for example maybe weight loss and he just hires this doctor to talk about some weight loss solution and then he creates like a Webinar or VSSL out of it and then just start running this and making some money. >> Do you think that's not the optimal I mean do do you
see any problems with that or how do you see it? >> So there's a bunch of different layers. I'm going to I'm I'm just going to address the one. >> Yeah, of course. >> Can the guy make money? It depends on How good the USP is. You know what USP is? >> Unique selling proposition. What's the what's the differentiating factor that makes somebody want that thing? If you come up with a good enough USP, >> then you'll make money for a while. But especially in a competitive market like that where the mechanism is what's being
sold. So, you know, 20, 30 years ago, the first big one that came out was Atkins. Atkins diet was like the big Thing. Now you got keto, you got sort of keto, you got carnivore, you got paleo. I think you got redneck deep fried. I mean, whatever the different the problem with the mechanism though, and what I mean is the mechanism is the the thing the secret sauce is that mechanism can be stolen and will be duplicated really quickly. It happens a lot. Yeah, of course. I have a lot of these problems here on on
Vtor because people they steal Someone's mechanism and then the owner comes to me and say, "Hey, this guy stole my copy and then we have to take it down." And yeah, it's it's a complicated, >> but even then it doesn't you you can't stop them. >> Yeah, you can't. Yeah. >> Here is a lesson that everybody needs to learn. your product, your copy, your blog posts, your ads, your video sales Letter, anything you can create can be ripped off, can be cloned and can be copied and if it is successful, it will be. >> It
will of course. Yeah. What is the one thing in your marketing that cannot be ripped off, cloned or otherwise duplicated? >> I would say you yourself >> brother you are absolutely right. It's two things. It's you and your story. Yeah, >> your story is unique to you. Now, some chucklehead could like, you know, pretend to be you, I guess, but I mean, they could lie, but that ultimately it comes out. But when I tell the story of like, okay, >> absolutely true story. I wrote my book. I tried to get it published. I got rejected
by more than 40 different publishers. I just stopped counting at 40. It took me four years to write the book. I threw the book in a um in a drawer. I kept all the the copies that I paid to have done. Ran into a guy at homecoming in 1997. He was doing some stuff on the internet. I said, "Do you think I could sell my book on the internet?" He was totally unqualified to answer that question, by the way. But he Said, I think he was half drunk. He said, "Sure, you could sell your book
on the internet." And then I embarked on a four-year journey of trying to figure out how to sell my book on the internet, creating a big sticky site, generating tons and tons of traffic. And then I was exposed to the idea of a onepage sales letter. I was taught a framework and I was taught a real loose framework, but I was ready. And so I was at a conference. I didn't have any money to go to the bar. So, I took that framework, went into my hotel room, I took my 40-page website down to a
one-page sales letter, took a lot of the stuff that I had been giving away for free, turned that into bonuses when people bought. My sales went up 250% that night. >> Whoa. >> My sales increased 250% overnight. It went from a money hobby to that little Website made enough money to pay for a house payment, two car payments, and the electric bill. I was able to move out of the trailer I was literally living in into a house. >> And then I did it again and again and again until people were like, "Hey, could you
show me how to do this?" And then that became 7-day ebook, which became 33 days to online profits, which became many site creator, which became all the stuff to where I came to today. Nobody can take my story. I've had everything stolen from me over the years as far as just people duplicating and cloning. And if they ain't copying you, you ain't doing anything really worthwhile is what I've learned. >> But if they're copying me, they're copying what I was doing six months ago. So I don't care because I'm way out in front of them
still. Yeah, >> but that story right there has made me So many millions of dollars because it explains who I am, why you should listen to me, and why you should buy from me. >> And Jim, do you think do do you think these are the criteria to to a good story? Who I am? Why should they trust me? or I mean how can someone tell if they have a story that is good enough in order to to to sell something or if they should look for someone which is has like a better story. >>
So That's a good question. I guess the I had a guy tell me one time he said um you know I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to get rich. And I said why why do you say that? He said because I've never been bankrupt or lived in a trailer. I said, "What the hell are you talking about?" >> He's like, "Well, I never had any of these struggles that you guys have." >> I mean, >> and so I don't know if I'll ever be able To get rich. And then sure enough, within
six years of him trying to get rich, the IRS showed up to his house and took everything that he owned. And now he's got an IRS took everything that I own story. I I think that's kind of stupid to look for a rags to riches story when you ain't in rags and you don't need to. So, no, I'm serious. I mean, it just I think I really think that became a self-fulfilling prophecy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so, my answer to your question is there is always a great story there. But here's the thing though.
If you've got a product that really gets incredible results and you don't have the story of, you know, I was living in a gutter and panhandling and then I had this amazing thing that happened to me and so I went into an alley and tinkered for two years and figured this out and emerged victorious. Go find someone and make them your story from the results that your product or service or software or coaching or whatever it is you want to sell. Get them the result and then use their story. Even if you basically have to
drag their ass kicking and screaming across the finish line, like I'll just do it for you if you will just do what I say so that I can use this story in my marketing and make sure you get in Writing. >> Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, that's actually something that we do on Victor because we have all all these features that can increase conversions. So, I just say to my clients, hey man, let's do this and this and this and then we do it their conversions like increase by 50%. sometimes 100% then I just get
the results and then I create content to post on my YouTube channel or maybe Instagram too too. So that's that's a Really cool uh idea to to do. It's awesome. And Jim, so I got the the the first pillar the the who you are makes completely sense. The second one you said that is you need to find their hot buttons. So how do you think that people should approach this? Where where do they go looking for when they need to search for the hot buttons? >> Okay, I'm going to give you One of my super
secret hacks for doing this. >> Please, please do it. >> But you know, we we just met. I This just shows that I'm very comfortable with you that I would share this type of intimate detail. >> I will share one with you, too, after you say because then I can >> If mine's any if mine's any good, then you'll share yours. Is that what you're saying? All right. So, so this is what This would be like a hot button. Again, what what are hot buttons? Hot buttons are desires. And I ain't talking about, you know,
like, oh, it'd be kind of nice to have. No, I'm talking about a holy crap, I would give my kidney for that type of thing. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Fear. Not a fear that's like, well, you know, it kind of bothers me. No, fear like Screaming in the middle of the night type stuff. All right. Objections. Not well, you know, that's mildly annoying. No. Like, this pisses me off to the point where I wouldn't even talk to my mother for the rest of my life. >> Whoa. >> Okay. So, we're looking for intensity. That's that's
really the key. Intensity intensity of all these emotional hot buttons. Why? Because the more emotional somebody is, the more likely they are to Buy. >> Now, this is just one way of doing it. All right. Now, >> don't know if you've heard of this site or not. >> Let's see. >> This site costs me, conservatively speaking, I pay5 to $6,000 a month. Whoa. >> To be a member of this site. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And do you want to know what it is? >> Of course. >> Okay. >> Amazon. >> Okay. This costs me
5 to6,000 a month cuz every dollar that comes in through my computer from my business, my wife's out there ordering crap up on Amazon to deliver to the house. >> Yeah. Mine too. She does the same thing. >> We call the UPS guy who when he brings Us we call him the Amazon man. All right. >> So here's the thing. Have you ever loo me when you buy something from Amazon? I'm just going to say this is typically what I do. All right. I look something up and I put in a keyword search and then
I see the stuff come up and I look at the picture and then after I look at the picture I look at the number of stars and then if it's the picture looks right And the stars look right then I'll click on the the thing and go to the page for it and then I'll read the description and then I will go read some of the reviews if I'm still not sure. Is that kind of the way you do it? >> Of course. Yeah. Same thing. Yep. >> Okay. So, here's the thing. If you want
to know people's hot buttons, look at the reviews, but you look at the reviews differently. The five star reviews are going to tell you the things that people are excited about that it's satisfying their desires. So, oh, I loved it. It had this and it enabled me to do this and it was cool. I mean, you got to dig through it, okay? Not every some of them are just fanboys and fan girls. >> When you get down to the ones, DS will let you know some of the hot buttons for people because they're pissed off
that the hot button that made Them buy the thing, it wasn't there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, hot button, you know. Oh, well, they're probably talking about a feature or something like that. What does that feature mean? What does it mean that they're bitching about something, you know? They're looking for convenience, not frustration. They're looking for something that's going to solve their problem, not create additional problems. This is the problem It didn't freaking solve. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So looking at those and then if you look at the ones in the middle, those
are the ones where you can actually really get some good information because the five stars are of times are fanboys. The one stars a lot of times are bitter know-it-alls who just hate the freaking World and feel empowered by giving something a one-star review. >> Yeah. But the ones in the middle are the ones where they'll tell you the one thing that was missing. And when they tell you that one thing that's missing, that's the most important thing to them in a lot of cases. Now, you're not going to go read three reviews and magically
solve the whole thing. But you go through, see something that's got 100, 200, a thousand reviews, and then you can skim through. Okay. The other thing on Amazon that they'll do is um they got that I don't forget what, but basically they'll show you like the keywords associated with this. >> Yeah. >> A lot of times that you know it's down at the bottom near the reviews and all that stuff that will have hot buttons in it as well. >> Triggers. Yeah. >> So, so that's one way of doing it. Another thing you can do
is go and I'll and then we'll keep going because now I'm giving you two. So, I'm going to be expecting you to um you know, give me two really good tips. >> Oh, but I only have one. >> Well, you better make it twice as good as mine then. So, you can go go talk to people. Go talk to people who are in your target audience. >> Yeah. >> And literally just interview them like what you know what about current products out there do you really like and that are amazing? What does that do for
you? And there's a there's a little exercise around here. We call it yaria. But you it's kind of like a five. Do you have any kids? >> No, not not yet. >> Oh, you're in for a treat. How do you say why in Portuguese? >> Porqu. >> Okay. Porqu. You know about the fifth Y. You like kay. That was Spanish in case you didn't know what that meant. But it works for Portuguese, too. Yeah, it's the same thing. >> But you you ask why is that matter? Why does that matter? Why does that important? Why
does that bother you? Not, you know, like a freaking CIA interrogation, but that why question Forces them to go beyond the obvious and get to the emotional. And once I've got that emotional stuff, dude, it's all over but the crying because all I have to do is just plug it into a framework that I know works and have it read pretty well and I'm way better than somebody who hired some $50,000 copywriter who is just going to basically be asking you a bunch of questions because they know nothing about your customer. And even if they
go Do a whole bunch of research, they're not going to know your customer better than you should know your customer. >> Yeah. >> And a lot of times, it's funny, if you've ever hired a copywriter, what will end up happening is >> they ask you a crap ton of questions, go back, do their thing, then they come back with a crap ton more questions, then they go do their thing, and then when they give you, hey, look, I got Your sales letter done. Where's my check? Um, you're like, "Holy [ __ ] this is all
the stuff I just told them." >> Yeah, >> I could have just written this myself. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you're right. >> You could have hacked it together yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, anyway, those are my two ways to to Figure out hot buttons. Pretty lickickety split. What is your secret, my friend? >> Actually, my my secret it's like the I don't know how to say that in English. The junction, the the fusion. I don't know how to say that but it's a little bit of the interview and a little bit of Amazon >>
because one thing that I found it's really really cool really really interesting when doing research to me is By far the best method when I do research for my copyrighting projects I mean when I used to do that right now I'm the CEO of Verb so I don't do that anymore but there are some books that our prospects they write about themselves and they post it on Amazon And in these books, they tell you everything that you could possibly want to know about them. So, for example, I used to sell a I I used to
have a skincare brand here in Brazil. And then There's a book on Amazon that's called Face It. What women really feel as their look changes. So, this is this is an amazing book. And then it tells you everything that a woman h goes through when her looks start to to become like older when the first wrinkles start to appear and then they say like the normal stuff and then they go also in the emotional stuff. How does these problems manifest in their daily lives? What have they tried to to to do to solve this? And
I find it really interesting because they I mean if you interview someone it's really cool. you will get a lot of information from them. But they actually wrote a book about it. And I mean you you you also wrote a book. So you know all the the effort that goes into it. You need to write it and then review it and then keep reviewing it until you you get the voice right. If you feel that it's not good enough, you write again. So they like spend I don't know how much Time time they spend but
let's say one year writing a [ __ ] book that they will give you telling you you all their secrets like why what keeps them au awake at night what do they really want why do they want it all their fears and everything so there is a book called face it there is uh another one that says my weight loss story it's also on Amazon and then yeah so every time that I go to to write for a certain niche. I go to Amazon, see if if they like Someone wrote a book about it, like
a first person book of how they they they got rid of the problem. Sometimes it has books, but sometimes it doesn't. For example, how to make money, that that's not like a good niche to to look for. But in the health space like u weight loss uh wrinkles pain diabetes all these kind of health problems these books to me I mean I'm not the best copyriter in the world but um I don't think I'm not even good but >> you made money at it that's all that matters. >> Yeah I I made so I made
someone. Yeah. So yeah but I mean that that's something that I do that I wanted to share. I don't know if you like it but to me >> that's cool. I never I never thought about that actually. What made me think of I would go look for diary of a blank, you know, that kind of a thing. Diary of a closet. >> Yeah. >> Choahholic. I don't know. >> Yeah. I learned >> Yeah. >> did this like a book reading tip I got from Gary Benga. He has a course called 100 seminar >> which is
like the last seminar that that he gave before he retired. So yeah, I think he mentioned that somewhere. To be honest, I don't really remember, but yeah, I think that that's it. But Anyway, to me, it's a really good resource. So if you're doing some research for your cooperating projects, maybe want to check that out. That's awesome. And yeah, so the third thing that you said that for the four pillars of copy hacking, you say that you need to have a really great offer, right? >> And I know that we can do a podcast only
about that. We can spend hours and hours and hours talking about the offers. There are a whole books written about this subject. There are there are two that I remember. One, how to create irresistible offers by Bob Bob Bl. It will appear on the screen right now. >> There's also another one by Alex Mozi which is called 100 million offers. Really cool too. >> Uhhuh. >> But how do you see this offer like side of your your frame or your your like pillars? How do you create an offer? How Do you know if it's >>
that one? >> Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, >> I like this one. >> Um, so I'm gonna simplify this a lot because there's a whole lot of stuff that goes into this. So I'm going to teach you in five minutes what you need to know. >> And you're welcome in advance, please. >> Okay. So I just got to get my I gota I got to get My uh teaching aid. I'm It's like I'm creating my uh slide that I would normally have ready. Okay. So, an offer in and of itself is a promise. >> An offer
is a promise specifically to help somebody get a result so that they can achieve an outcome. So, my promise is I'm going to show you how to build a massive email list so you can have a rabid hungry audience ready To buy anything you ever release or promote. >> Yeah, >> pretty good promise. >> Yeah. >> The offer stack equals what you get. See, because you can make the same offer, but you can have a different offer stack. You can have a bunch of different offer stacks with the same offer. So, my offer stack for
that thing I just said might, you know, I've got an ebook on how to build a list. Or it could be I've got a master class, five-part master class on how to build the list, or I've got a 90day handson coaching intensive on that where we're going to walk you through everything and provide all the tools. What's the difference between all of those? It's the level of value. What do you put into an amazing offer? What you put into the offer is all the stuff that they think they're missing in order to achieve that result
or or get the outcome so they can achieve the the get the result so they can achieve the outcome. Because there's a difference between result and an outcome. Result, I have a thousand people on my list now. outcome. I have a tribe that will buy my [ __ ] >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Nobody gets excited about having a list. Nobody pops out their mama's shoot when they're born holding a a CSV file with a 100,000 users with their first name, last name, and email address. >> Yeah. >> Okay. An email address doesn't mean anything,
but the outcome of having an email address is power, sex, freedom. Well, maybe people will buy your stuff. Whatever you want to interpret it. Okay. >> Yeah. >> If you want to make a great offer, there are four areas that you need to address. Ready? Knowledge, skill, resources, and support. I don't know how to get this result, and I don't know how to do I don't I don't know what I need to do to do it. I don't have the skills to do it. I don't I can't do it. Okay? I don't have the resources.
I don't have the thing. I don't have the things I think I'm going to need. resources usually come down to time, money, or something. And then support. Adults never like to get lost. Adults never like to feel like they could get lost. So, they need to know there's somebody there that they can call 911 or to hold their hands and pull them out of the ditch. >> Yeah. >> So, you got to figure out what they need to know. And it goes back to the hot button stuff and the other stuff that like they'll tell
you what They they need to know or what they feel like they don't know because you know what you got to teach them. >> Yeah. >> But then also this helps write the copy that you can address. Hey, you don't need to know this. If you know this then you can do this because I'm going to teach you this, this, and this and this. Cool thing is you don't need to know how to do this and this because I've got this and this for you. And the great Thing is you don't even have to go
buy this and this and this because I'm going to supply you with this and this and this. And finally, if you run into any problems, we got your back. We've got a community. We've got 247 this. We've got onboarding this. All that stuff. All of a sudden, it's like, holy [ __ ] Now, the key to the whole thing is to make an amazing offer. In the end, someone has to look at that thing that you are asking them to buy. That that's a gift Box, by the way, in case you can't tell. Okay? And
the value has to be massively more than the cash value that you're asking for. And you said you like dollars, so that's a dollar sign, albeit a bad one. >> Yeah. Thank you. The per and the value isn't just value. It's perceived value. Perceived value. >> Yeah. >> Has to be massively more than the cash Value that you're asking in. And here. Nope. Let me finish. Let me finish because I'm old and I lose my train of thought. I'm screwed. Okay. >> Don't worry. >> And the last thing, how do you say how do you
say cake in Portuguese? >> Bolo. >> Bolo. >> Bolo. Yeah, that's >> bolu. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How do you say cherry? >> Seria. >> Okay. The sasia on top of the bolu. This is the cherry on top of the cake. Okay. >> Yeah. >> You've got to bake into this whole thing a reason to act or buy now. Because even when you've done all this, part of your offer has to be a reason to act now. Because even with all this stuff, if you don't give them a reason To buy now, act now. The
majority of them will wait. >> Yeah. >> And I'll literally tell people, here's why you should buy right now. Here's why. Okay. I have a question, Jim. You said that we need to provide a massive massive value. So, you you use this word massive. >> Uhhuh. >> So, it's actually two questions. So, the first one, why is it massive? Why can't We just provide like a fair value? And also, how much is massive? like how much can people when can people see, okay, I already gave like a lot of value, so that's enough. I I
I don't need to keep adding stuff to my offer. >> So, what you're saying is, you know, you know, your stuff's good, so people should just want to buy it. Is that what you're saying? >> My stuff's good. They should just want to buy it. Dude, it's their money. >> Yeah. >> They don't know you. They don't care about you. What they want to do is get real value for their money. Especially now that money is not worth what it used to be worth. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I remember when you don't remember this. I
remember you could buy Coke. >> Even coca even coca >> for 25. >> A Coke costs 25 cents, man. >> And how much? >> Brand new car costs 8,000. It's like two bucks out of a vending machine, too. It's like eight times as expensive. >> My point in US you have no idea how how it is in Brazil. It's way crazier, man. Way >> Okay. Well, you need to move here. >> Yeah. >> Um it's up to you to demonstrate that value. >> Yeah. >> It is up to you to demonstrate that value to people.
Not for them to see the value, but for you to demonstrate the value so that they can't help but see it. >> Yeah. >> They're hardly paying attention. They're distracted and you're asking them to add balance to their credit card. The vast majority of times you're asking somebody to go into Debt to buy your [ __ ] Yeah. >> So, can I say [ __ ] I did. >> Of course. Of course. >> Um, >> you can say whatever you want, Jim. That's >> You just bleep it out, you know. How do What does bleep
sound like in Portuguese? It's like, >> yeah, >> Portuguese. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's the same thing. >> So, you can cash value. >> So, that's number one. So, let me ask you a question. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, I gave my I gave my usually I got a bunch of hundreds in my wallet, but I gave my hundred my last hundred in here to my grandson because he got straight A's >> and I figured give him a $100 would like get me off cheap until didn't give him a Chance to think about, oh, here's
a hundred bucks for straight A's. >> So, I got a 20 here. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Would you pay me $10 for this $20 bill? >> Yeah, I would. >> Okay. Would you pay me a dollar for this $20 bill? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Just even the way you said that, It was like, "Yeah, yeah." You had to think about it. Like, what's But as soon as I said, "Would you pay me a dollar for this $20 bill?" You were like, "Yeah, okay. Sure." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, if we were standing there
together, you'd be like, "Yeah, I'll get my dollar out. Yeah, we can do it after the podcast. I >> one of the send it to you in the mail. >> Um, so yeah, it doesn't work over PayPal, bro. Um, so the way it was originally taught for to me was you want to sell dollars for dimes. Do you know what a dime is? >> Yeah. It's like a little coin. Yeah. >> It's a little tiny ass coin. All right. >> What you want to do is try and get it to about a 10:1 ratio. That's
where I find the sweet spot where it doesn't feel unbelievable. So, it's like you're going to get $1,000 worth of value for 97 bucks. And but it's got to be real perceived value, not just stacking on [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Okay. But 10 to one is the one that you want to go for. Now, obviously, you're going to have to test your market and but 10 to one is what I'm trying to go for. Okay? 10x the value. Now, I've seen some I mean, I've got one offer where it's like $120,000, you know,
to I'm trying to get somebody to spend a,000 bucks and I give them $120,000 worth of value. I still get away with it. Sometimes it's only $57,000 worth of value depending on the offer stack and other things and the audience. But >> yeah, >> typically, you know, if you're selling something for 100 bucks, you want to demonstrate $1,000 worth of real value. >> Yeah. Yeah. Usually, I mean, if it, as you said, people need to know that it is real, right? So, I think that's the 10 10 to1 ratio. I think it's more of an
argument to to make people believe that is actually real. But I mean, if you can for some reason, I don't know, have like a 100 to one ratio and people actually feel that it's real, then I think that you should do it, right? >> Yep. But also, make sure there's a reason that, man, when I got the money, I'll do I'll get that. >> Nah, there's got to be a reason to do it now. There's got to be a reason that's So good that they're just like, screw it, dude. I got to do this. Even
if it's like, you know, I may not even use this for three or four months, but I need to buy this now so I'll have it when I'm ready. >> Yeah, >> that's a good reason. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that's that makes completely sense. And a lot of people don't do that. So if you're not doing like >> most people don't do that. Not a lot. Most people don't do it. >> Most don't. Yeah, that that's true. Yeah. So Jim and the last pillar in your four pillars to copy hacking you said you mentioned frameworks
right? So >> uh by frameworks I understand a specific way to present all these arguments maybe like a VSSL >> in a specific situation. >> Yes. >> Oh okay. So can can you elaborate on That? What is frameworks and also where people can find them? So, um, well, frameworks, like I said, it's it's basically it's a way of assembling everything. Think about it like Legos. How do you say Lego and Portuguese? >> That that's that's it. Lego, >> dude. That I knew that was a trick question. So, I was already talking Portuguese when I asked
the question. Okay. But if you think about it in terms of frameworks are like Legos. They're building blocks. Everything, every framework is made up of a building block. So, this is what I use for my uh this is an example. Okay. You're like, "Oh, what's he really talking about, dude?" >> No, you actually have real Legos to to to show this. That's awesome. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. So, these are a bunch of Different frameworks. So, I can I mean, excuse me, a bunch of hot buttons. I can literally assemble this into an opt-in page. Ready?
>> Yeah. >> Headline, picture, three to five bullets, an opt-in but or a register button, and then questions about the event. >> Yeah, that's awesome. That's cool. >> There. There you go. That's an opt-in page. That's the framework for an opt-in Page. Now, where people get messed up like with a with a um a template that would be like how to blank without blank new blank on blank reveals all the blank you it's like no dude once you understand their hot buttons and you understand all that stuff then the framework is you're able to put
it together >> in such a way that it creates the result based on what you want people to do >> because that's not a sales framework. >> That is an optin. That's not a sales page. You're not going to get people to pay money with that framework, but you're going to get the maximum number of people to sign up for an event using that framework. >> All right. Yeah. >> So, you know, and and I'm just going to be honest with you, dude. This is my one shame shameless plug, okay? All my frameworks are built
into my software here at copyandcontent.ai. This is the culmination of my whole life >> so far. And you know the whole copy hacking idea and mentality and all that stuff is all baked into the software. Literally you do. In fact, you don't want to be a copywriter. You don't want to learn copywriting. I know that >> it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. But what if you can talk about yourself, have any level of awareness about your customer, And then we can help you put together your offer. We got AI tools unlike anything else on the face
of the planet to help you be able to take all that and plug it into a framework. >> I was actually studying your website, the copyandcontent.ai, before the podcast, and then I saw that you have over 70 uh frameworks there, right? You have everything for Facebook ads, YouTube ads. I mean, you you have probably more frameworks than I know What that framework is for. So that that's really complete. Yeah, that's amazing. And how can people like try your software? Do you have like some What can people do besides going there? >> Go there. >> Go
there and check it out. Yeah, you could you can try it out risk- free for 30 days. No worries. >> All right. And I've got tons and tons of Yeah, I got tons and tons of training. I mean, I I teach um if you know, okay, Here you go. Watch this. >> Do it. >> We talk about the offer and stuff. Knowledge. You don't need to be a copywriter. In fact, it's best if you're not. All you have to do is know about yourself and know about what you want to sell. Skill. You don't need
to know how to write copy. Literally, if you can copy and paste and fill out a form, you can create all the sales messages, ads, and marketing content you could ever Need. Resources. We have live training every single week. I teach a master class every month. I teach you how to hack the software and do amazing stuff with it that's not even baked in the direction. We have our Genie coaches who are available every Friday. You can come on and ask them anything. We have onboarding. You get access to our complete library and archive of
past trainings. And as far as support, we have an award-winning support team as Well as the opportunity for one-on-one coaching. It's a little bit extra, but you can pay for that. So, we've got the support, we've got the community, we've got the whole deal. The bottom line is if you want to create sales messages, ads, and marketing content that help you make more sales, higher sales, and repeat sales, copy andcontent.ai is for you. Now, that last little bit was me channeling my Billy Maze just a little bit. But that's what we got and That's what
we do. >> Got it. Got it. So, if you're in the audience and you'd like to check out copycopyandcontent.ai, you can just go there. The link will appear here on the screen and it also be on the description of the episode. You can just click there and then yeah then you can do it. You don't have to be a copyriter as Jim said. It's actually better to not be a copyriter. You can just type your information there like Who's your avatar, what you what do you do and then the AI will generate the copy for
you. So it's way easier. That's >> and we actually help you to generate your avatar, analyze and research your avatar and do all that stuff too. So, we got all the tools that to help you flesh all that out. You don't even really have to know who they are. >> Awesome. Awesome. That's amazing. Okay, Jim. So, thank you so much for these informations. And again, guys, if you Want to check out copy andcontent.ai, it will appear here on the screen right now and also there will be a link in the description. You just go there,
click on it. If you don't want to write copy yourself, you have Jim's help. As you you saw on this podcast, Jim has a lot of knowledge. He wrote a lot of books about it. He's been doing copy for a long time now. And then you can use all this experience with the AI to produce copy for you. I think it's basically Having like Jim's uh mind like working for you, right? Because at the end of the day, you need to tell the AI what to do and the one that's doing that, it's him. So
yeah, it's better. So you can go there. And and Jim, thank you so much again for doing this podcast. And I would like to to ask you if you could just send a message here to the VTER audience. You can say whatever you want. You can talk about you about some people talk about God. Some people they they Talk about something else. But yeah, just give you like this last minute of you. So you can talk about whatever you want. >> So number one, I'm very grateful for you having me. I appreciate I had a
lot of fun. I like you, John. You're a cool dude. >> Thank you. Thank you. You too. I like you, too. Um, I would just say that, you know, the I had I had a a realization That if I was going to make it big in the world, I remember exactly where I was. if I was ever going to get rich. And I even said this to my wife was driving in a little Jeep with her and I said, "I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I know that if I'm ever going
to get rich, it's going to be because of this internet thing." And this was back in 1997, I told her. >> Yeah. I had no idea then how I would do it and I have no idea how you are going to do it. But I will tell you that no matter what you do, your ability to put words on paper, on a screen, or in a VSSL or in an email or in an ad or in a piece of marketing content like a YouTube video or a Facebook post or a Blog post is going to
be critical to you reaching that goal. Because if you can't do that, no one's going to buy your stuff. >> Yeah. >> Now, you got two paths you can go down. One, you can do like I did, and study copywriting for years, which I did, and I mean, I've got books lined up on my shelf. I got a couple books over there over a hundred years old, >> that I've studied. >> You can do all that. You can become a copywriter or you can hire an expensive copywriter. I don't recommend any of that. What I
recommend is learning copy hacking, which is the shortcut. >> Know who you are, know who your ideal customer is, know how to put together a great offer, and then concentrate on frameworks that will take all those things and put them into a form that just get you the results. That's how you can do more in a month or two than Somebody could do in 10 years. >> Yeah. >> That's my honest to God thought. If I could go back and talk to that kid almost 30 years ago, that's what I would tell him to do.
>> Awesome. Thanks, Jim. So guys, >> oh, and oh, and last thing, Jesus saves. So there you go. >> Jesus saves. Awesome. So guys, this was another episode episode of the Vtor Podcast and I see you. Bye. Gabbras. So eat the mice.
