Manipulation Expert: How You're Being Brainwashed! The Dating Checklist To Unmask ANY Psychopath!

Almost anybody in the world is extremely vulnerable to persuasion and influence. The best manipulators in the world, whether it's sales teams or a psychiatrist, the best people in the world make you feel like it's your own decision. Chase Hughes is a worldleading expert in behavioral psychology and human influence whose groundbreaking techniques are trusted by military intelligence, top CEOs, and elite Government agencies. So many people would sit here and think, "I would never be able to get manipulated. I would never fall for a cult-like activity. But you've been able to show that anyone can be controlled

to even commit murder. Cult leaders and recruiters understand human motivation better than anyone else I've ever met. And they have a process that they use that's just a fascinating process that gets you to agree about the type of person you are, not what you Believe in. Chase Hughes reveals the invisible ways you're being subtly manipulated every single day. He gives practical, powerful advice to help you spot toxic individuals, decodes hidden persuasion methods influencing your thoughts, and shows you how to reclaim your mind so you're no longer reacting but choosing. How can we start to identify

if the person that is interviewing us or we're about to go on a date with? How do we start to identify If they're a narcissist, a psychopath, or someone who's got these crazy skills that might use them for bad intent? This is going to be a little controversial, but I'll give you two big things. Chase Hughes, welcome back. So, for the people who are just stumbling across maybe you now, they haven't seen much of you or maybe they've seen some of you or they've got no idea who you are right now. To give a little

bit of a backstory, you spent 20 years doing on a On a secret ship doing Navy intelligence in a military doing all kinds of things. You've become a neuroscientist. You've studied behavioral psychology. Then you really went into the whole space and now become probably the best in the world at interrogation, brainwashing, and all these sorts of things. You've come out of the military and now you're teaching all of these skills to the world. You become the go-to person for elite CEOs, professional sports players, Intelligence agencies, even hit you up to train their people. How did

you go from military to everything you're doing right now? Well, thanks, man. I uh I didn't think these skills were valuable to civilians. I didn't know that coming out of the military, I didn't think that anything was transferable. And I had this huge epiphany moment when I was training a room full of mostly law enfor law enforcement officers and this guy Who owns a car dealership comes up and says, "You're not this is not for police. Like what you're training is in human beings. you're not teaching police officers secret police tactics. This is just human

beings. So, it was this huge revelation for me that everything that we attribute to success or failure in our world comes down to how did I do when it comes to human skills. So I think everything when it if you break down someone's success there is a very Human element in so many different ways like not just can I understand my customers do I know who I'm talking to can I read the room but also myself can I like discipline myself and master myself well enough and I realized that that's kind of the triangle of

everything when it come so no matter what AI does, no matter what the economy does. These are the the most irreplaceable skills when it comes to people succeeding. I I don't think I've Met anybody who understands the question why we do what we do better than you. Um like you've spent so long really dissecting influence, manipulation, persuasion, uh and all this. And I want to it sort of makes me ask the question so many people would sit here and think I would never be able to get manipulated. I would never fall for cultlike activity. I

would never be able to let someone control me. But you've been able to show And through studies for decades actually as well that people can can anyone can be controlled can be manipulated to even commit murder. So how does that actually happen? How do you take someone who would sit here and go I can never be controlled. You can never make me do anything against my will and you know the exact opposite. Yeah. Uh, so let's unpack that a little bit if you got time to do that. Yeah, we got all the time. All right.

So, we call this the firewall Illusion. And so many people believe that they have this firewall to being persuaded. And the way that I equate this to the real world is if if you think viruses, a computer virus doesn't exist, you're not going to put an antivirus software on your computer, you're not going to be alert for it. So the more someone believes that I can't be fill in the blank. That will never happen to me. The more vulnerable they are to that Kind of manipulation. And the reason why is they when they take any

action will always rationalize that I did all of that myself and it was my choice to do it. And the the best manipulators in the world, whether it's sales teams or a psychiatrist that's getting great results from patients or uh some psychotherapist, it's still manipulation. I'm getting you to change your mind slowly, covertly. In some ways, the best people in the world make You feel like it's your own decision. And this is why the the first hypnosis training I ever took in my life, it was this kind of a a cheap course to like help

people quit smoking. Mhm. And the the first thing the guy said is, "You will not get credit for what you're doing cuz your clients are going to come in, you're going to help them quit smoking, and they're going to say, "Yeah, well, you know, I saw this hypnotist and I I did quit smoking, but It was mostly me." So, because we take credit for so much of those things because we want to feel an autonomy. I'm self-governing. I make my own decisions. So when a person gets compromised and does something like insane, we externalize that.

So that was somebody else who did something to me or I I didn't do that. We want to own the good things about us when we want to kind of push away the bad. And anybody almost anybody in the world is extremely Vulnerable to persuasion and influence. And this is because our brains do not have a firewall. We don't have any antivirus. There's not some protection in there that's stopping uh negative influence from controlling our behavior. And we don't have a firewall for that stuff. So that's the number one thing to understand is that our

brains are not prepared to deal with high intensity influence. Like things Like Twitter and Instagram and Tik Tok are so dangerous because we think we're kind of immune to that. I was actually just going to talk about that. So, I think the last time we tal we talked about fractuation. And so, you know, anyone who's familiar with hypnosis, which I wouldn't really imagine there's too many people listening to this, but fractuation is a pretty common thing in hypnosis, right? Taking people sort of In and out of like a deep emotional sort of fractionation. Fractionation. So,

the up and down roller coaster. Um, talk to us about So, on social media, they're using it to sort of trans people. Yeah. where I work. So if I can get you to go into relaxation and then come out of it, into relaxation, out of it, and then kind of get you into a little cycle, I can get you into a place where every time you go back into that relaxed place, you go a little bit deeper before Because it's familiar. So I make it more familiar. And you can do this with any emotion. So

we have a high emotion, low emotion. I'll show you a picture of or a video on your feed of someone doing something horrible. I won't even mention anything, but just something really nasty and awful and bad happening. And then two videos after that, it's a person hearing for the first time. Like you just flip a couple More videos and it's a deaf person that's putting these things in. They're hearing their mom's voice for the first time. It almost makes you cry. Have you been you have you ever been scrolling by yourself and like looking at

Instagram or something and a real makes you cry like a 60-second video? You're making me emotional. It's hard to make me cry. Has it hit before? Yeah. But I mean Yeah. Yeah. I get what you mean. It gets you like it hits you in the in the heart. So You have this like high up and then down and then up and then down and then what happens right after that? Advertisement. So it gets you to a place of being hyper suggestible. So, anytime I can take your emotions and just dial them up and back down

and up and back down, then I can show you an ad. And that's why the social media algorithm. I don't think they've designed it on purpose to do that. What I think they've done is look at all these metrics and the algorithm Says this video and that video. So, the algorithm is doing that a lot more than human beings are. And I'm glad that it's I don't think there's a person behind that. I think the algorithm says people take action after seeing these types of videos in a in a row for three and a half

minutes or whatever. So the fractionation is a very real thing. You could use it in a conversation with someone just talking about something that's really high up Then talking about let's say I'm descri I'm vividly describing the process of getting a massage to you and how it feels to completely relax. So you're moving me between uh great emotions and bad emotions. Is that what it is? It could It doesn't have to be bad. It could be a threat of something. So like I'll talk about how fear Yeah. So fear back to something that's trusting and

relaxing. So like I'll talk about how unstable the economy is. But then how Every generation thinks it's unstable and things are actually pretty good right now. We're safe. We're here. Everything's fantastic. So I'm kind of walking you back down to that. And then I'll ask you about what was that? When was the last time you took like a great vacation? Then I'll get you to talk about this vacation you went on. I'll ask you some other questions to kind of get that. The more I can get you to talk, I'm getting you to build pictures

In your mind. I'm getting you to rehearse things in your head. So, I'm I'm asking you questions that are very pointed to get your brain into a place that I want it. So, I'm I'm making you do half the work. So then, okay, so let's say for example, you're having a conversation with me without me knowing about it and you're doing this to me. You're having these back and forth conversations. Yeah. Completely out of my awareness. For what purpose are you doing that? Just to make me more suggestible for what you might say after. Yeah.

So I may have some goal in mind that I want to work with you or I want to sign you as a client or somebody's maybe recruiting for a cult. I'm trying to get you to join some cult somewhere and I want to get you into a suggestible state. And the the number one mistake that most college research has done over the last 50 years is Assume that suggestability is a static trait. Like this person is 35% suggestible and this person is 70% suggestible. Suggestability is wildly fluid and I can modify a person's level of

suggestability pretty rapidly to make them a lot more compliant, a lot more likely to comply with some kind of suggestion later. Yeah. So, so that in itself is going to make somebody more suggestible all by itself that will make Somebody more. Why does that work? Like is it Yeah. Why does that work? So, uh it's the psychological and conversational equivalent of good cop bad cop. It's the exact same thing that's happening. So it's called tension and release. Tension and release. So once you have enough tension and release, you're getting more and more. Every time I

get to the release part, you go a little bit deeper than you did before. Then more tension and the Release goes a little bit deeper. So what I'm essentially doing is creating a cycle of neurotransmitters of stress chemicals which get less and less because you know nothing happened before. it's not going to happen again. You know, nothing bad's going to happen. So, the cortisol kind of peaks a little bit and then cortisol goes down a little bit more, less cortisol, but every time you're going down, there's more GABA. And GABA is the safety chemical in

our Brain. GABA is what uh makes hypnosis possible. So, it's the it's the neurotransmitter that kind of calms everything down. It's the number one inhibitory neurotransmitter. And GABA stands for gamma amunobuteric acid. And that neurotransmitter is responsible for hypnosis. That's why we can use hypnosis to quit smoking or or create a manurion candidate is because of GABA. So every time we're going down, I'm increasing Those little levels of GABA every time. And GABA increases the feeling of safety. Safety increases the feeling or increases the quality of suggestability. That would make a lot of sense. I

love that entire scientific response to that. So what's happening in my head? You're taking me from something fearful, something, you know, good again. And every single time it's happening, I'm feeling safer with you every single time. Yeah. So you've also spent weeks um with cult leaders. So cult recruiters. Cult recruiters. Yeah. So you spent weeks with these cult recruiters really like understanding how they do what they do. And I'd be very curious to know, you know, you've also done tens of thousands of hours of watching interrogation interviews and to really see the difference of these

people and how they able to create mass influence, especially, you know, building a cult. There's been some cults where they make them commit suicide and it was craziest things. What has been some of the key things that you've found to be different about those people to normal people? You know what I found very very interesting? That 97.8% 8% of you that listen and view this podcast haven't yet subscribed. Now, if you're looking for the one way that you can actually help us build this show into something that's going to be absolutely incredible and Life-changing for

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to teach you the skill set and the mindset that you wish you learned earlier in life. So, please, it'll mean the world to me if you hit that subscribe button. Go ahead and do that right now. Now, let's get into this episode. Cult leaders and recruiters understand human motivation better than anyone else I've ever met. better than the salespeople. And when it comes to human Motivation, what I mean is I I catch you at a time when you're going through something bad in your life. And if I'm not if I'm not catching you at a

time when you're in this transition period, you just got fired, you moved from house to house, you just got out of a bad relationship. If I don't catch you at those times, what I've noticed hanging out with these people, and when I say hanging out, I mean I'm spending time studying these methods that they're Using, they will call attention to a period of your life that was stressful and get you to talk about so many details of it that it feels like it's in the present moment to get you to start taking action to change

your life. So, the difference between those people and anybody else is not much. they just have a little bit more empathy. They're or maybe they're they're tuned into human emotion a little bit better and they have a process that they use that's just A fascinating process that gets you to agree about the type of person you are, not that not what you believe in. So most people in sales will get to talk to you about like let me give you a bunch of ideas. And in the cult recruiting or interrogation area, I'm not talking to

you about ideas. I'm giving I'm not giving you ideas. I'm giving you identity. So, I'm handing you little pieces of things and saying, "Are you This type of person?" Like, "Do you support people to do you support people who do healthy stuff?" I get you to make that agreement. You're like, "Yeah, I'm that kind of person." This is what they were doing. Recruiters. Yeah. So, it's tiny agreements about who you are as a person. And that's what that is. So, it's all about identity. So, it's a gradual wedge of like a foot in the door

technique except for I'm getting you to agree to who you are as a person. So, Let's say for someone watching this, um, they're about to go on a date. Mhm. Let's say they're going on a date. There's a girl watching this to go date the next guy or a guy watching this go date next girl or maybe they're going for a job interview and some a situation where they want to try to put their best self on. Yeah. Yeah. Show their best self. really try. How can we start to identify if the person that is

interviewing us or we're About to go on a date with or we're dating, how do we start to identify if they're a narcissist, a psychopath, or someone who's got these crazy skills that might use them for bad intent? The This is going to be a little controversial, but I'll give you two big things, two big ones. And I'll give you a question that you can ask. You just ask this one question and it's going to reveal most of manipulators, narcissists, psychopath people. And keep In mind, you cannot spot a psychopath. Like I cannot give you

some list and you can do that and it's you can say, "Oh yeah, that's a psychopath." But you can spot manipulators pretty quickly. number one thing that you need to look for is if you've ever met somebody who has been happy their whole life um and they're ex even by the time they're 19 20 years old you're going to see these little crows feet kind of just almost permanently etched onto the face someone Who's really skeptical or angry all the time will look like this so you'll see this muscle right here start squeezing together that's

called the gloella right here and somebody who is really skeptical all of their life, you're going to see like if I asked you to make a skeptical facial expression like someone's feeding you a bunch of BS, it squeezes your lower eyelids. Yeah. Right. So, it makes our lower eyelids wrinkle and I can you can spot More suggestible people, higher degree of suggestability by just the smoothness of this lower eyelid. And you just you can Google Charles Manson girls. You can Google cult members right now and Google images. You can scroll through and see 99% of

them have this really smooth lower eyelid because they're not doing as much scrunching, right? They're not really doing that skepticism face. Yeah. So the end part of this is our forehead acts like a social billboard. So, we are Very expressive, you know, with our eyebrows when we're talking. We want to emphasize points. Somebody says, "Oh, I just this big huge thing just happened to me and I want to celebrate some win with you. I'm going to raise my eyebrows to help celebrate the win with you." Or if I'm just saying hello to a stranger, you

say, "Oh, hey, good morning." And you raise your eyebrows. That's how we communicate socially. people who don't really communicate socially and view the World as a in a transactional way, you're not going to see much movement of those eyebrows up on the forehead. Granted, there's other reasons. They could have Botox and all that stuff, but you're going to see a lot less lines in their forehead and you're going to see a lot less movement in the forehead. And the second thing is just asking the question from any stressful point in their life. Maybe it was

a breakup, a previous relationship, a a job that they Left, you want to look for these two things. Number one, you ask what was like the biggest thing you learned about yourself like ever? No. About that context. Yeah. That one question. What was the biggest thing you learned about yourself? Are they going to put all the blame off on somebody else? So, if I'm asking somebody in a job interview, they might say, "Well, I I trusted that company too much." It's nothing's their fault, right? So, you'll always hear These answers where I learned that I

shouldn't trust people or I learned that X fill in the blank. It's always going to be somebody else's fault. The second thing you want to look for, especially when it comes to these like career manipulating people, all of their friends, like they're really good friends, are all in another city. They're all in another state. They're all living somewhere else. They don't have local a tight group of local Friends that they're regularly hanging out with. Does that make sense? Mhm. And it's always going to be off at a distance somewhere. So, those would be the biggest

red flags that I would give to especially women uh going out. And of course, there's women manipulators, too. It's a lot more likely it's going to be a dude. Yeah. So that one question, how would that not like let's say cuz I can think of some people I know who are more victims and they love to complain. Um And if I ask that question, I can think of one person right now in my head. I wouldn't say she's a psychopath. I would just say she is more of a martr. Would that not question sort of

skew the judgment a little bit? Like if if I was to ask her, I I would say she would probably like, well, blame the other person a little bit. Yeah, but that's why we look for clusters. That is she expressive with her forehead? And so I want to look for a cluster of all Those things. I don't want to look for one indicator and say, "Oh, that tells me everything I need." That's what I think that is an amateur thing. If you hear people teaching you that, one of the final ways to ask is or

the final things to look for, if I'm talking about something happy and amazing that just happened to me, does it show on the other person's face? Are they kind of sharing in that emotion? If I'm talking about uh my aunt just got sick or a a Relative of mine just got this horrible medical diagnosis, does it show on their face? Do you see some kind of concern on their face? If you're not seeing any of that stuff echoed on the other person's face, you're because the the friend that you're talking about, whoever that is, will

show empathy. They'll show empathy. So, do I see reflective empathy? Am I seeing communication being expressed by the eyebrows moving? Are they open to say, "I learned a lot about myself. I Wasn't I needed to develop myself better. I need to show up on time. I need to be more disciplined." Are they taking ownership? And finally, do they have local friends? Do they have friends that are around nearby? Got it. Okay. So, looking for the the three. Yeah. Because it it seems like um well, I don't know if it seems just reticular activating system. You

get into this space and you start to see this pinpointing stuff everywhere. like Swindlers and uh the whole I think just the rise of social media has just made it more accessible for people to sort of create facades and get their sort of way into people's lives. Yeah. And I think just living a life that we're comparing our regular everyday lives to other people's social media presence, which is why we have this unlimited amount of connection across our entire planet. And we have a loneliness epidemic, an epidemic of loneliness. I mean, look At the Apple

Vision Pro and the Facebook VR headsets and stuff. Those are there to solve loneliness. Those are there to solve the problem of I need some kind of anesthetic for my everyday life and I'm not actually connecting with people. So, social media gives our brain, the tribal part of our brain, the ancestral part of our brain, a completely artificial placebo of having some kind of a tribe. M So brainwashing that has been a topic of your life for a very long time. Um probably one of the best at it. When I think of brainwashing I imagine

a dark room in a dungeon somewhere or in the bottom of a in a house somewhere and probes electro electronic things attached to my head. Um that's when I sort of think about it. But I know that like daily manipulation could be happening, daily brainwashing, like subtle brainwashing could be happening In conversations. So let's say for someone listening to this and they're having conversations with sales people or their partners or their CEOs at work or whatever it might be, how can we start to pick up on these subtle brainwashing that comes in that conversation? So

what are we actually looking for? There's so much, dude. So much we could do here. So the the formula that I developed for brainwashing spells out the word fear, F A R. And that stands for focus, emotion, agitation, and repetition. Those four things. So if I'm really trying to spot some kind of conditioning, I would I would tell people more to be on the lookout for conditioning than brainwashing. Cuz when you see conditioning, you're not going to say, "Oh, that's brainwashing." you're just going to see like, oh, that's some interesting messaging or something. So, it's

way easier to look out for Conditioning. So, what is being done to grab my focus? And the number one thing is novelty. Novelty. So, where something unusual or unexpected is about to happen that creates dopamine. So, if you log on to Facebook, you know how if you just on the main homepage of Facebook on your phone, it shows you that little list of short videos, but it'll only play the first second of them. So, like it's a guy, the bowling Ball falls off the bridge and it's heading towards the trampoline, but you don't get you

don't get the end. So, what are the conversational and and human equivalents of that I'm getting on a regular basis? That's what that's how a cult keeps its members. So, I'm going to give you a a series of something that is not expected and something that you're going to need to resolve the outcome of on a very regular basis. And the psychological principle behind this Is called the zygarnic effect. It's our brain's natural tendency to need to understand the conclusion of something. So, that's the focus. Then, we have the emotional part. How am I being

driven emotionally? Just like what we talked about earlier with that fractionation up and down and up and down. If I'm if I'm being triggered emotionally somehow, that's a huge warning. But if I have a lot of focus, there's emotion. And then in between that emotion, there's Agitation. There's things that are disrupting my emotional state, like the bad videos online. And we're not just talking about social media here. This is an everyday cults. So this is in the cults that you can probably list in your head right now. There's some kind of I'm agitating that person's

life in some way to make their brain consistently think this is brand new. I can use this technique on myself. If I just rearrange my furniture on a very regular basis, it Makes me better at setting goals because the mamalian part of my brain is saying something's different. I need to pay attention to this. So, I can brainwash myself using the exact same things. I'm doing things to rapidly increase novelty, crazy stuff that's brand new. My brain can't predict it. There's emotional involvement. How can I involve the emotion? How can I agitate? And how can

I repeat it on a very regular basis? So, we can use it for ourselves, but we Can also learn to spot it in the environment around us, the conversations that are around us, too. Give us an can you give us an example then specifically, let's just say around the cult. the cults, the first one you said novel in focus. So, they've got to maintain this all the time. What are some examples, some things that might be happening? Like, how do you consistently maintain something that's new or novel for someone to keep them hooked in for

So long? Like, what are some examples there? These would be uh in some cults like access to knowledge. There's a new ceremony coming up. There's a new initiation. You're reaching a new level that you're not allowed to know the secrets of yet. There's this next level thing that's going to happen that you don't know what's going to happen yet because it's a secret, but we're going to pull you into this room and we're going to do this secret initiation Ritual. We're going to give you these alien secrets or something like that. And that is the

that's that works in two ways. On the mamalian brain, it works on the novelty aspect, which is the focus. on the human brain it leverages the expectancy our our ability to try to predicting to predict the future. So that's the zygarnic effect of I need to understand what's going to happen in this next level. So that's that's that one piece. So every piece of influence When it comes to human beings has a mamalian level like our mamalian brain that makes most of our decisions. Like it's in charge. Like the reason you can't hold your breath

until you die is because of our mamalian brain system. So that is run on focus, authority, tribe and emotion. So if you think of training a dog, I'm at first need the dog's focus. Then I need to establish myself as an authority. Then it needs to view the us This family as the overall pack. And then the emotion, the repetitive actions, the reward, the give developing confidence in the dog. It's the same thing in the human brain. So those are the four things that govern the mamalian brain. In the human brain, there's six things that

govern whether or not a situation or person is going to be influential. And that's also focus, but that's a different focus. We have mamalian focus and human focus. What's The difference? Mamalian focus is response to novelty. Human focus is a response to interest or social status. Like I'm I'm with a person that has higher status than me. I'm going to adopt their mental frame. That's in the neoortex. Yeah. In the neoortex. Okay. So focus, openness, how open we are to something, connection, that's number three. Uh suggestability, expectancy, and Compliance. So suggestability, how will I accept

suggestions? Compliance, will I comply when you move, when you point, when you direct something to be done, will I comply with that? And then the expectancy. Do I have a reasonable expectation that something positive is going to happen in the future? I'm predicting what's going to happen. And the weird thing is about those six things about human influence is you only need three of those for something to be Diabolically effective. If we go back to the Mgrim experiment where people shocked strangers or they thought they were shocking strangers to death at uh Yale University, they

had no openness. So just just for context for people who are not familiar with the Mgrim experiment. Can you explain what they did there? Essentially they took volunteers and said, "We're doing this study. It's all fake. And you need to read out these Questions. There's a guy on the other side of the wall and he's strapped to a shocking machine and every time he gets a question wrong, you're going to deliver a shock and you're going to increase the voltage every time he gets a question wrong. So like 67% of people went all the way

to 450 volts, the farthest you can possibly go on the machine. Um, but if you think of that experiment, there's no openness. They're not sitting there Telling all their secrets and being wide open out of their ego. There's no connection. They're not uh mentally or socially connected to anybody. And there's not a whole lot of the other parts of that really going on. There's no expectancy there. They're not expecting a positive outcome, right? But we had a shitload of compliance, a ton of suggestability, and a ton of focus. So, we just had three things out

of those six. And the cool thing is, or the Scary thing, depending on how you look at it, you only need if you just get three of those nailed down on the human part of influence. And to go through those six really quick again, focus, openness, connection, suggestability, expectancy, and compliance. And all you need out of that is three of them. If you get four, five or six, you have guaranteed influence. You are guaranteed to get someone to do exactly what you want them to do. So the Emotional part has to have a tremendous power

as well, right? Because like give us some examples here on how specifically how people could maybe start to identify if this has been used on them because I'm putting myself in shoes as someone in a cult and there's focus, there's this excitement. But when you hear people that have been in it and then left that when they left they would look back and be like I don't know how I didn't see what I saw. Um but like what I can't understand is how how are they not in their head any time going this is really

bad. Like I shouldn't be you know specifically some cults like they want us to kill ourselves. How come there's no you know the conscious mind stepping in there and going like this is a bad idea. like you know like how come that interference not actually happening where somebody outside looking in could sort of go what are you doing why are you with that person you're like what do You mean like they don't see it this uh let's talk about one more study to kind of illustrate this this was done I don't I can't remember the

university but it was done by a guy named Dr. Solomon Ash experiment. Yeah. So this there's 10 people in a room and he shows them a three lines on a card and they're like one short line, one medium line, one super long line. Then they shows a line on another card and says which line on This card is equal to line B on this card. And it's obvious. The answer is very obvious. But nine out of ten of those people are all co-conspirators. They're part of the experimentation team. There's only one real volunteer in the

room. So it goes down the line. Everybody, let's say the correct answer is A. Every but everybody in the room goes B all the way down this line of people. When it comes down to that final Volunteer, they will deny reality. They will shut off the part of their brain that says, "I know the right thing. I will completely deny what I think is real, what I think is good, what I think is the right answer because all of these nine people before me chose that." So this is the power going back to that mamalian

part of our brain safety of the tribe. So the tribe now also serves as remember that the mamalian brain runs on focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. So Now they're in a room they've never been in before doing something they've never done before. Tons of novelty, right? So everything's brand new. So focus. Authority is also the people in the room. Those nine people are not just tribe. Now that they're all agreeing with each other, they become tribe and authority together. So once I see lots of people doing one thing or agreeing with something, especially in these

cloistered small Environments of cults, the right or wrong part of my brain disappears and I default to doing what the tribe does because that's what kept our ancestors alive. So it's hardwired into our DNA. Um, so I'm writing in my book at the moment. some I've told you before I'm writing the dream lab method book and the first well the second law my second law of creating a dream life is a right environment and my first Study you know why I prove this is because of the ash experiment I'm like even if you position yourself

like let's say for someone out there want to be more successful more happier grow their business or whatever if the only thing you did was be in the environment with other people who are also like that or had the same pursuit based off the evidence of the Ash experiment, you will eventually start to be like them, even if you think you Still can't do it. You'll literally brainwash yourself into being like them, even if you still doubt yourself. Yeah. And and that's why I absolutely love it. So, I've looked at so many of these studies

and it blows my freaking mind. Um, but one, how about this one? Cuz I can understand that with the Ash experiment. Now, let's say someone's in a narcissistic relationship. Um, I'm sure you've probably even known someone in your life that have been in a Relationship. you and everyone else has looked at them and been like, "Get out." Yeah. Why are you in that? Can you not see that they're controlling you? Can you not see this? What a two-part question here. One, how come they can't see it? And two, what do we do for people like

that if we can see it, but they can't? That's a tough one. M so the reason that they can't see it is they are in a cycle uh that has to do with their Identity. So I am the kind of person who is kind. I'm the kind of person who stays in relationships. I'm the kind of person who doesn't give up. I see the good in this person. You know what I mean? So everything that's keeping them in the relationship is about who they are as a person. Identity. So once their identity becomes whatever, fill

in the blank. I'm staying with this person, I'm a good person. Now the the moment they start Approaching a thought of maybe I'm in a relationship with a narcissist, maybe I'm being manipulated, maybe there's more to what's going on here. The moment that happens, they have the most powerful force in human psychology and behavior, and that is cognitive dissonance. So, this is when we push up against this force. There's a a book out there. I wish I I can't remember the author, but it's called When Prophecy Fails. And gosh, I wish I could remember his

name. I'll think of it probably in a minute, but it's about this cult and they predict the end of the world is coming, that everything's going to end. Everything's going to be giant balls of fire. uh aliens are going to come destroy the entire planet and it's it's going to happen on this exact day at this exact time. So they build up to the date. They they do all these Preparations. They're saying all of these prayers and all of that. And the day comes Leon Festinger is the author's name. And the day comes and they

double down on their beliefs. Even though the thing didn't happen, they doubled down. So this really tells us that if I have an identity that says I am this kind of person, the cognitive dissonance is so powerful that it can completely blind us to facts and things that are Absolutely true. So they doubled down and said, many of them said this didn't happen because we prayed so hard, because we got so ready for it. So we knew so much about this destruction that was going to happen that they decided to cancel the destruction of Earth.

So a lot of the followers, you would think that the moment that that doomsday scenario didn't happen, they're going to leave. They're going to take off their little hooded robes and cult robes and Stuff and everybody's going to walk out the front door. They doubled down. They became more faithful. So that is the power of cognitive dissonance. And it's the same thing that happens in these relationships. Something bad happens in the relationship, I'm going to double down on my faith because of the type of person that I see myself as being. So they fall into

the idea of like I could help this person Or it could be I am a good person or I see this person's true potential and no one else does or the and then we get below identity. The one thing more powerful than human identity is worldview. Because they see the world as people are capable of changing and doing something good for themselves, right? Hold on to hope. Yeah. They Well, they're in love. They're not in love with their partner. They're in love with their partner's Potential. Yeah. And that's all that they can really see. Yeah.

So, second part to this then, like let's say if we know someone in a relationship, and we'll just keep on relationship because I think this is probably where it happens the most. We see someone, we know someone in an abusive relationship, narcissistic relationship, they're being controlled. Um, what do we do as us looking outside looking in? We can see they can't. What do you do there? The Number one thing that you can do, and this is tough. It's going to be tough for everybody, is to figure out what that identity statement is that's keeping this

person in. So, what is the I am statement? And then we want to expose them as much as we can to all of these tactics that are being done to them without letting them know that we're doing it. So we're not there's a part of our brain uh called the DMPFC, the dorsome medial prefrontal Cortex. This is like a little screening tool security guard that says is this information dangerous to me or dangerous to my identity? So, we want to get the information pushed to these people in ways that they won't realize that we're really

calling things out and showing them things. And this happened to me um just a few months ago. So, it has to start very small. And what I did was I asked that person advice. So I said,"I have this person at work who's doing this thing, this technique, and he's using fear and guilt to make me do this, and I feel like I shouldn't be able to do this. I don't know what to say them. I just wanted like if you have any advice on what I should do because I know that you worked in a

management position before. You've managed a couple hundred people. What do I do in this scenario when this person's doing this, this, and this to me?" And I'll very Covertly describe some of the things that the way back parts of their mind that they don't want to shine a flashlight on is going to hear that and go, "Whoa." It's going to sound familiar. So, what you're really doing is taking something that's in the dark. You're not the moment like I bring a spotlight in there and just shine a giant light on all that stuff, that person's

going to have the strongest negative reaction Backing away. So, you ask them for advice as if it's happening to you. Yeah. So you're just flipping the perspective in a totally separate situation. Yeah. Because if I if I'm having a conversation with you, this is called u topic proximity. So the the closer the topic is to being about you and me, the more likely that part of your brain is going to be like, I need to pay attention to this. I need to make sure this is not Going to affect me in any way. But if

I can remove that, I want the proximity of the topics we're talking about to be completely as far away as I can possibly send them. Um, I love all this stuff. So, one of the things you've taught me um is everybody wears a mask. Yeah. Everybody wears a mask to to cover their insecurities or their deepest fears. So, I'm curious to know one, how can we start to discover what our mask is? And Then also like I say, I'm asking our fears. Um, and how can we understand other people's so we can protect oursel better

from being brainwashed and manipulated from other people. This goes deep. So the first one, the first part of understanding the mask of you and for other people, like if you're if I'm trying to help, let's say you're my client and I want you to identify the mask that you're wearing on a regular Basis. I'm going to take you through a process called the childhood development triangle. And this is as a child around the age of eight, what were the recurring behavioral patterns that you used to gain or keep friends, to feel safety, and to get

some kind of reward or recognition? Those three things. So if I see how an adult handles conflict, how an adult makes friends, how an adult Keeps in touch with people, how an adult feels safe, it's the identical patterns from when they were about eight or nine years old. So are you asking these direct questions? Yeah. I have a whole system that's designed to peel peel these layers back because if you if I just ask somebody that question directly, you're not going to get a straight answer because it's so it's kind of buried under a bunch

of crap in our brain. M so I have a very precise System um that really peels all of these layers back and it does it in a way that you can't game it. You cannot game that system and like let me give Chase the result that he wants to hear for this. It's it's worded in such a way that there's no way to predict what I'm asking about. It's just going to do that. So the the fastest way to do this is to kind of go back into your life and like how did I gain

friends and what are the what are the things that are still Kind of coming up for me that were still there when I was eight. And so just understanding that little triangle friends safety and rewards and rewards is different for everybody. Some some kids rewards was I get to go to a a concert. Another kid might have a reward as water or bread or food. Uh depending on how we grew up, you know, we come into this video game of life and we all spawn in these different situations. Some people Have a bad ticket, man.

So friends, safety and reward. Those become our adult patterns of how we deal with conflict and social situations. So when it comes to the friends part, this becomes our social mask that we wear. Can can we do a live example with me or is this a super deep like can you ask me these questions and pick it apart right now in front of everybody? Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it. All right. So, when you were a let's say you're eight Or nine years old, you go back to that age. When you were fearful that you might

lose a friend, what were the behaviors that would typically come out? Would you increase your level of attention on them or how did you keep friends? H how do I keep friends or make new ones? Uh it'd probably be Yeah. What you say? Increase attention. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Probably like chase them More probably. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm going to be more involved with that person. I'm going to increase the number of level of contact and maybe increase the level of proximity. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, and when you were a kid, what did you

do? What was the safest way that you could feel? Safest way I could feel like if you had any kind of there was a bully at school, somebody was mean, a teacher was a total A-hole, what what is it? What are the patterns that you exhibited between ages of eight and nine? And this is typically a two-hour process, but this is very abbreviated. So, what did you do to probably avoid it? Yeah, you've run away. Okay. Yeah. Which is very which goes along with the friends. So I'm going to increase proximity and decrease proximity. So

now you have a proximity pattern. Does this make sense? So now I'm seeing A pattern of I'm going to increase and decrease from safety and friends. Even though they don't they're not opposites. Now we're seeing a behavioral pattern between the two. So now it comes to what did you do as a kid to gain some kind of reward? It might have been appreciation or acceptance or approval from mom and dad or somebody telling you great job, you're so smart. What were the behavioral patterns that you tended to go toward? Yeah, I probably had to win

Something. Win something. So like achievements accomplishments. Great. So when I can just get that and I can So I write down let's say I have a little triangle here on my paper. I'm writing down on the safety part. I'm like exit is kind of like if I w was to word your response in one word it would be just exit and the friends part uh frequency proximity increase right and then the rewards part is achieve uh Win what else um get some kind of larger recognition recognition from multiple people if I just understand that now

and if you if anybody understands this about themselves now I start to see why did I have that fight with my wife a few weeks ago there's I increased proximity and something happened or I had this huge win and I got zero appreciation for it so we start seeing how we get injuries as adults so these are called Social wounds wounds. So, I start to see my responses to being socially wounded as an adult. I get insulted. I feel outcast. I don't feel safe in at work because I can't predict my schedule. And I'm not

talking about Maslo's safety of survival and food. I'm talking about social safety. So, I get to see all of your adult patterns playing out. If so, if you told me about a problem in your life, we go back to that triangle and be Like, you're doing something with proximity. You're doing something by exiting just because it got difficult and you walked away or you removed yourself immediately, maybe too soon. Or you you bypassed all of these other things because you knew this giant wind was right over this mountain and it makes you careless. Does that

Does that make sense? Kind of. I'm trying to understand how it would make how would someone Finding that out about me benefit them if they were trying to influence me. Great. So, I know how I can predict your behavior. Okay. So, I know that if I need you to, let's say I wanted to get you, we're in a restaurant or something and I want to get you oneon-one to talk you into joining my secret alien cult, right? I'm going to create a situation that is stressful inside of that restaurant and then suggest let's get the

hell out of Here right away because I know exactly how you deal with conflict. And the moment that we get outside, uh, I start thanking you for spending some time with me and connecting with me. So, now you're kind of getting a reward for proximity and frequency and suggesting that we might meet up in a few days. But the real goal of this is this giant thing that I'm going to give you to to be able to win to increase your feeling of Significance, approval, and acceptance. But I'm also be if if you're working for

me as an employee, I know how you're going to respond to conflict. I know what you need to feel from other people. And I know the drives that are really motivating you because we carry all of this crap, that one little triangle, we carry that into adulthood without knowing it, without our awareness, without our consent. We carry all those little behavioral Patterns and they turn into social masks. And I divide the masks that people wear into six types of masks. And I there's probably a million. You could you could make an Excel spreadsheet a mile

long of so of masks that people wear, but there's a significance mask. I need you to see me as significant and important. I make a big difference. There's an approval mask. This is the mask of I'm not uh you've had friends that say, "I have a big speech tomorrow. I just know I'm going to suck at it. It's going to be bad." And they're they're fishing for that uh approval. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have the acceptance mask. And this is the mask of I belong to all of these groups. I'm a member of all

of these tribes. I have lots of friends. I'm involved in a large community. So we have significance, acceptance, approval. Then we have intelligence mask, which is pretty obvious. I went to this school. I went To this Ivy League college. I had did my thesis on this. All that kind of stuff. I know lots about this stuff. Then the pity mask. And the pity mask is not really seeking pity. The pity mask is really asking the question, do other people realize what I've been through to get here? Do other people realize what I'm going through or

what I've been through? We see that mask a lot. So, it's not always negative. It's just people that want you to know their Story. And then we we finally have the strength and power mask. And this is I need other people to see me as powerful and strong. And that one can maybe have two branches. One of them becomes like they're naturally rise up to leadership roles and stuff in corporations and the other one is kind of like a chihuahua. If I make enough noise, if I look powerful enough, no one's going to hurt me.

Because you see a little boy like you See that guy driving the giant jacked up truck with all the like most overdone masculinity, right? What we're seeing is uh I'm see in my brain as a behavior profiler like overcompensating for the feelings of insecurities. Yeah. But it's also if I act tough enough, no one's going to hurt me because it worked for me when I was in middle school. It worked for me in elementary school. So that's how I dealt with conflict. Okay. So based off these three things in The triangle, that's what makes up

our masks, these six masks. Is that what you're saying? I'm saying this it's definitely not what makes up everything. Okay. It's the simplest way to understand and define these kind of ground principles that kind of govern somebody's psychology for sure. So let's take one for example say the pity one. Yeah. What would you say? Why does someone become why does someone form the mask of the pity one? Like it sounds Like such a it sounds like if you got a if you put all these together and you you said to someone you have to pick

one of these one of these going to be yours. I think P would be the one people would not want to take ever, right? Yeah. Significance is great. Yeah. I want to get recognition, strength, I want to be strong, powerful, I want to be smart. Why would somebody choose the oh yeah, I want to be the victim? So, how does that get formed? Why do people wear that Mask? So, let's go back to the childhood development triangle. What did you do to earn recognition and and reward? That's what it comes from. Or to feel safe.

Uh so let's say um they go to school and right away you know maybe they go to a brand new school and they say I did I went through this and I got this and I got this diagnosis and I got all this and they're getting attention they're getting social reward from it and it continues to either keep them safe like They're not getting bullied because of sympathy or they're gaining friends from it or they're gaining reward. So it's safety, friends, and rewards. So they might get all three from all those things. So they might

hear their mom do it and their mom does it. So they kind of go to school and they kind of replicate it and they just talking about how bad they've had it gets them some kind of reward on that triangle. Safety, friends, and rewards. Mhm. And before I move out of this sort of topic, the final thing for someone who might even suspect that they're in a relationship or being manipulated in some sort of way. Maybe someone's so advanced to this, they're using these masks to their advantage. Are there any other major red flags that

maybe like if this person watching this could go, "Yeah, that's happening to me right now." And that confirms that maybe I need to get help or something like That. Are there any major red flags that says you are being controlled and manipulated? The the biggest red flag that everybody in the world should be looking for is if I feel good during a conversation and then I need that person back again to feel good again. Like I the good feeling goes away right when that person's gone. That means something artificial was taking place. Because a great

Conversation, the the good feeling should linger for hours afterwards. If it was a manipulative conversation, maybe there was gaslighting or you know what other kind of manipulation you can think of, that good feeling that you might feel goes away very quickly. So it's like a drug. Yeah. Because it's playing chemicals in your head. Yeah. Wow. So it's chemically based, not tribe based. Hm. Okay. So, I I want to be able to Sort of unpack all these things that you teach, but use it as the positive approach now and go how can we start to, I

guess, brainwash ourselves to become more successful and get over self-doubt and all these things. But before we do, I want to talk on uh a quick subject that I know you're probably as obsessed as me on it, probably more, which is MK Ultra. Um, you've spent God like you you've gone through the files. You've been able to interview people. You've You do if you want to talk on anything else you can. I don't want to say things that you don't want me to say. So, I don't know. Right. But what the reason I want to

talk on this topic is because Sirhan Sohan was the guy who killed uh RFK. Okay. JFK's brother. the guy who was convicted of killing RFK. Correct. Yeah. So, the guy that was convicted of killing him still to this day, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, still To this day, he says, "I have no memory of that whole week of my life." He has no memory at all. And he would be, I've heard he'd be led out of jail if he actually just accepted the fact he did it. But still to this day, he

says, "No, I'm I can't remember it." So, they keep him in jail. you've tried to actually go and interview him and you've been blocked from it or like just you know pushed away. Um and so I'm very curious on this Topic because it looks like there's a lot of strange things happening in the world and the reason I want to bring this up is because Trump just signed papers saying we're releasing the files of JFK and we've got RFK Jr. you know, really making big moves right now and it feels like he's been on this

three or four year decade vendetta. Do you think these files are going to bring out much? Like what do you think is going to come out from This? I hope they do. I I think it's going to be a lot of redactions and the files that come out are going to be probably a huge letdown. But maybe maybe I'm wrong. And the reason I was smiling is because we're Morgan and I are in my office right now and over his shoulder is a lifesize uh cardboard cutout of RFK Jr. Uh which we could get into

it another time, but uh it was basically to remind the kids to eat healthy. I had them next to the Fridge, but when they would come downstairs at night, it would scare the crap out of them because it looks like a a human. Uh, so yeah, I think when these documents get released, we're going to see one of two things. It's going to be mindblowing through the roof, or it's mind-numbing, like where there's so much black redacted stuff on the page, there's only like three or four words that you can read. Oh, so when they

release files, it's not the full files. It's only what they want you to see. Is that how they do it? Well, the the executive order that uh President Trump signed was to release the files. There was no specific wording that I know of for them to be unredacted that I know of. Maybe there was I know it was two or three pages long and they described it in one or two sentences and I don't know if it's public record or not, but I think that what Trump is trying to do With this, there's a reason

behind it. It's not just, hey, you need to know what happened. I think Trump is trying to show that this concept of a deep state has existed for much longer than it's been talked about in this last decade or so. Like this like shadow government. And people say that kind of willy-nilly that gets thrown around. It sounds very conspiratorial. It's a bunch of people that were not elected. So that's all That means when somebody says deep state. It's people that were not elected by us, by the citizens, who are making decisions that affect American people.

These wealthy people or are they agencies or or I think it uh is many different people that share common ideologies and I think 90% of the deep state is not sitting in some dark conference room dimly lit smoking cigars covering world domination plans. I think it's just happens ideologically at some Level. I do think there's a level at the top. I am no expert in this stuff. Um, but I definitely think that there there was a ton of financial influence between big companies and the government. And I mean, we we're in a country I'm in

I live in a country here in the US where lobbying is legal. Um, and it's legal to pay off congressmen. It's legal for companies to pay off political figures. It's legal legal. It's legal for Congress to do these insider trading Things where they get data from a company that they're about to go down. And so you can they can do all these put options on a on a stock. They can get uh information that this one stock is about to go up so they can buy a bunch of it. That's legal. So, I think a

lot of what people think is the deep state is stuff that goes on behind closed doors. It's in these little hush conversations. It's right in your face. It's wide open. And it's it's Not hard to see who the actors are. It's not some uh Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. And I think it's over the years there's so much news and there's so much drama over the news that we've had this collective societal death of outrage. So our we've almost developed an apathy for what's going on like well it's it's too big to fix. There's

nothing we can do about it. It's out of our control. It's out of our hands. So the death of outrage is the first Step to being fully in control of a human and like if you have a human that's captive for interrogation or intelligence operations or whatever is you want to instill some form of apathy and kill that outrage. And the second step part of control is to do the things uh right in front of them. So the deep state as far as I can see and I again I'm not an expert it's 90% of

it is right in front of our Faces and what what's your opinion on I don't even know his name that that guy that killed the CEO of the health organization. There's a lot of talk about him being a uh a what what's the name of it? I forget the like a manurion candidate. Yeah, brainwashed like put in some cuz the whole backstory of him was he was crushing in college and he had all these awards and he was great family and then he got he disappeared for 3 months came Out as like a professional assassin

killed this guy. And so the talk when I first saw that I was like wow I I saw the footage and I was like wow this guy's like a legit assassin. Someone pissed this guy off, right? You know, someone someone's pissed off hired a legit assassin, right? And then I started seeing more stuff come out. I was like, "Oh, well, I wonder is is that, you know, is the whole Multra thing still a thing that could be cuz M Culture is not a conspiracy. It's completely out there. All the documents are out. People have fully

researched the CIA have come out and said, "We did this. It can happen. Uh, but we don't do it anymore." So, I guess a lot of people are wondering if it is still happening. What What's your thoughts on it? If you look at anything that's come out over the last, let's say 200 years, it's when documents get released for 200 years, it's the story of we did this before, It's not going on now. Then new documents come out. Oh yeah, we did that then, but it's not going on now. Then we have Julian Assange. Uh

uh then we have Wikileaks that announces the government spying on its own people. Oh yeah, we did that then, but it's not happening now. We did it then. It's not happening now. over and over and over. And we have a population that with I don't think it's conscious, but I think they unconsciously believe, yeah, they did That back then, but they're not doing it now. And that's been the belief dur while MK Ultra was happening. That was still the belief. They did crazy CIA did crazy stuff back in the day, but they're not doing that

stuff now. They don't do it anymore. That's the belief of just about everybody you talk to because it sounds weird. It's it's not popular to talk about. We've we've endured a a decade worth of cancel culture to where we've we've increased The level of anxiety associated with sharing opinions. So we've we've said if you share this opinion, you're not going to get in trouble. But if you go share this opinion, you will get in trouble. Look at what happened after the after the pandemic when Harvard and Stanford and Oxford educated doctors were being silenced and

kicked off the internet. The smartest people in the world were were getting kicked off the Internet. So that's one of the things uh as well that in individual relationships as well. If your idea requires people to be muted or silenced, your idea sucks. There's no there's no idea that needs to have people to be muted and kicked off of the internet. These are respected people. So, if you see that that is I've I trained the US Army SCOPS u people at Fort Bragg. What What is that? SCOPS is a psychological Operations command and it is

part of the special operations command of the US army but their goal is to crystallize public opinion in places around the world in the direction that is favorable to US government interests. So, propaganda. Propaganda. Yeah. And propaganda started with this guy named Edward Bernay who wrote a book called Propaganda. And he's actually Sigman Freud's Nephew. Weird. If you just look this dude up. Uh, he's the reason that women smoked Virginia Slim cigarettes, that margarine was dyed yellow, that bacon became a part of the American breakfast. He's the reason that the Department of War changed his

name to the Department of Defense. He invented the term public relations to cover up the word propaganda so it didn't sound too bad. He is the master of propaganda, but that's kind of what it is. But if you're Seeing people need to be silenced for one viewpoint, if you're seeing people be silenced, you are witnessing absolute like public brainwashing at that point. If people have to be silenced for an idea to flourish, then you're witnessing brainwashing through all of this because I I first, you know, found my first good conspiracy, I think, not long after

9/11. I was young. So when did that happen? 20 20 something. When did that Happen? Yeah. 2001, right? So I was I was like 20. I was 10. Okay. No, I was not even 10. Born in 93, right? So I was super young when it happened. So not too long after I think there was Michael Moore. Do you remember Michael Moore? Oh yeah. He brought out these docos and stuff, right? And he was the first one to really attack and I was like, "Wow." And I remember younger sort of looking like, "Oh, what conspiracy?" I

very fascinated about the unknown. Um, and I remember when I was younger, I went down such a rabbit hole where I just got so negative where I lived in this whole space of, you know, Illuminati and the government and blah blah blah. And I was like, my life's so toxic. This is horrible. And I got out of the rabbit hole. And I sort of like to sit on the edge of it now, right? I like to just look at I, you know, you know, I like to look at the idea of that, you know, imagine

if it was Conspiracy. And also, I'm never going to know the answer. it's never going to actually affect my life. So, what can I control here? And what I've been able to really identify is that the one thing that I can control if I want to try to position myself to make sure I can't be manipulated, I can't be brainwashed, even though, you know, someone probably as good as you could still go against that. What I've what I've noticed is if I can develop my Self-esteem, this is the best bedrock because a lot of these

people prey on people with low self-esteem, right? So would I be right by asking you a question if we want to start to look at how can we use all these things that you know on ourselves so we can better our own life and achieve more goals would we want to start increasing our own self-esteem and if so how do we do that? Well, self let's define self-esteem. Yeah. Is my self-esteem is my definition Is how much judgment and shame you carry. That's it. The lower your judgment and shame is, the higher your self-esteem is.

That's it. Judgment of self, self and others. Because most of our judgment of others is a projection, right? So all judgment, anytime you see someone judging someone else, there's there's a fraction of some kind of personal shame inside of that judgment because if I can push it on somebody else, it's not mine. Right? So judgment and shame is a measurement of self-esteem. So, one of the the first thing I tell every client that I work with one-on-one when I'm like reprogramming their brain and some some of my sessions are like I do absolute fullbrain reprogramming

with like politicians, celebrities and stuff like that. Number one, the number one thing, the first thing is I get them to understand who they are as a human being and I change their perspective on can You zoom out while you're doing stuff. So like, can I zoom out on a problem enough that it doesn't really exist that much? And the goal of getting them to be able to mentally zoom in and zoom out on a problem. If you look, just envision your problem as being like on Google Earth, like can I get all the way

out to where I can see the stars and and the solar system, right? And your problem's gone. So, can I mentally do that on a regular basis? And the moment I can get You to that point, I can get you to be so selfforgiving that it seems ludicrous that you seem delusional to everybody else in your life, but it doesn't matter. So you get to the point where you are so selfforgiving and you know yourself so well and still are forgiving at the same time. You can't carry shame and judgment anymore because you can zoom

out on everything. And you're start the moment I'm zooming out on all this stuff. I I'm not seeing other people. I'm seeing little versions of me because now I know myself well enough that I see that person over there that I would normally judge. And I I'm seeing me, but I'm so non-judgmental. I'm not carrying judgment anymore. And I I'm starting to see that like every I'm going to this is a huge tangent, but every single religious text, the Bavad Gita, the Bible, the Quran, uh the Torah, uh Plato, you go back to Plato's Republic,

every single religious text that's ever been written, the number one message is we are all one. The number, you know what the number one phrase in the Bible is? number one repeated phrase in the entire Bible, do not fear. And it's written in the Bible 365 times. If you think about that, once for every day. Uh so you get a person to Lack shame and judgment, which is fear. All fear comes from some kind of especially when it comes around our self and self-esteem. Do not fear. It's the number one thing. The num the number

one thing we see in all texts is like we are all one and take the spirituality part out of it. just seeing I'm seeing reflections of me in every person that I talk to. And if I can get my client to that state in the first day, it sometimes it takes two Days to where the rest of your life you're so radically unbelievably delusionally selfforgiving. Everything else starts falling into place for your whole life because that's your worldview. So, it's just a matter of let's say I do something or I become aware of something that

I don't like about myself, zooming out in my head and just seeing that thing as tiny. Yeah. And mentally zooming out and see saying how Like this is so ridiculous. So, like if you had a like a near-death experience and like you were sitting up there with a million other souls in heaven or whatever and you're looking down like, "Oh my god, that was the most insignificant stupid [ __ ] that I was worried about." That kind of perspective is really what changes people. That's very interesting. Okay. And if there's like one [Music] thing that

we could do, because when I talk about building self-esteem, I think it comes down to collecting evidence to provide proof that you're someone who does [ __ ] that's hard and someone who does things when other people don't and someone who does things that said they were going to do that thing. building integrity because throughout my life I've just developed this massive Selfrust because I can look and because I've and then every time I achieve something new my self-esteem will rise. I feel better about myself cuz I trust my ability to do another thing that

might be challenging and it starts to create this snowball effect. Um is there something else? So like so when I work with people I I say to them start to collect evidence of the teeniest little things. Yeah. commit to something not losing 100 Kilos, 20 or when you finish it, you're like, "Shit, I didn't really want to do that." Yeah. Um like even say I went to the gym this morning in my hotel. I flew in last night. I feel like a bag of potatoes right now. And but I'm like, "Get up and go to

the [ __ ] gym." and I hated every minute of it. When I finish, I feel great because I did the thing that was hard where it was much easier to not do it. What else can we do to start to Build our self-esteem like like a daily if you've got like a daily trick or a habit or Yeah. Just just rating yourself on a on a daily basis. So that the number one thing that I could pass down to anybody is that if I get the repetition, remember we talked about this with brainwashing, right?

the focus, emotion, agitation, and repetition. The repetition is so key that I'm rating myself on the factors that are important on a daily basis. I'm Not making plans. If I rate myself low on one thing, I don't need to do these seven powerpoints or anything else. I'm just getting tons and tons of awareness on those things. And with my clients, uh, we there's a few things that we monitor. There's 10 things. There's five traits of authority of which authority is the number one way to start living a different life. And this is confidence, my discipline,

my leadership, my gratitude, and my enjoyment. Was I able To just I'm not sitting here shooting off party confetti cannons for enjoyment, but am I able to be in an enjoyable gratitude? Well, the gratitude's right before enjoyment, right? So am I'm thankful and then while I'm doing something I would rather not do, can I still be mentally in enjoyment? I'm doing laundry. I'm doing dishes. I'm folding towels. Whatever I'm doing, can I be in a mental state of enjoyment? Those five things. And then when it comes to my lifestyle, there's five more. And this is

how did I manage my environment, my time, my appearance, my social life, and my financial life. Easfironment, time, appearance, social, and financial. Because the number one thing that I teach my clients is you are in the business of creating gut feelings and intuitions in other people about you. And all of those gut feelings are Going to be based on not whether or not you read that article on LinkedIn of 15 ways to look more confident and present yourself like a CEO. Um that's how to have symptoms of someone that's confident. It's not how to be

confident. All those articles are g are showing you symptoms. Symptoms do not equal the cause. I c I can't heat your body up and then uh paint your lips blue and give you COVID, right? You have to have a cause of COVID. I can't just give you a Bunch of symptoms, right? So, that's what so many people are focused on symptoms instead of the cause. So, let's get down to the root causes of all these things. What causes those gut feelings in other people? It's not all those things. It's how I live off camera when

no one is looking. Am I who I betray myself to be? If I'm not, there's going to be some kind of inongruence. And nobody's going, it's not like I'm talking to behavior profilers all day Every day. But when I have that conversation with somebody, I have that good posture like LinkedIn told me to have. I did what that guy on YouTube said, where to make good eye contact and smile, use somebody's name, give them a firm handshake, touch them on the shoulder, all that kind of stuff. And if I'm being fake, if I'm not being

authentic, something in that person's brain, maybe after the conversation's over, is going to say something Something didn't add up. The guy looked everything looked good. He looked confident. He looked like he had his [ __ ] together. Something was wasn't right. And that's what that's what happens in people. So we are whether you want to or not, we are all especially if you're an entrepreneur, a dad, a leader, a CEO, you are absolutely creating gut feelings in other people all day every day. And it's better to do it deliberately than on accident. Yeah. This this

has been one of the biggest things I've probably learned from you so far actually is it's not as much about what you know, it's about what what you embody. And this is a big part of my teaching. It's like one of the biggest things I I talk to people all the time. I'm like, I can teach you the things I know. You might understand. Like there's three levels of learning. I go I can teach you about it. You can be here with me today and you know about it. You can Go home now. You just

got some more knowledge. The second one is you can come and do this event a few times and you'll start to understand it. And that's where a lot of college professors get to. People go and study an MBA from someone who doesn't even own a business and and then because they understand the knowledge enough. But very few people get to the third one which is embodiment which is I just do the thing my you know Darren Hardy um uh he I was spoken at an Event with him one time in Maui and I said to

him that I kind of knew the stuff that he was already talking about and he goes do you do it and does your bank account show it and I'm like [ __ ] So that's when I started to really understand I'm like [ __ ] you can't just know these things you got like literally embody it. Yeah. And for me it um when I really start to really focus on like I I barely even and there's sometimes I'll share content in my event that like all The time. There's even been sometimes where I specifically don't

share a story at one of my events because for some reason that week or something it came up or was like I didn't feel like I was fully congruently living it. Yeah. Um, so like sometimes I run leadership programs and sometimes I'm like 10 minutes late nearly everywhere. And when I teach leadership, I'm always really hard on them. I'm like, if you're a [ __ ] minute late, I lock you out to Teach them. It's like, right. And I remember last time I read I'm like, don't do that this week, bro. You've been late 10

minutes every single meeting this week. So I I was I'm like, I'm not going to do that with you guys, but I didn't tell them this. But in my head, I was like, I couldn't live with the inongruency of telling you to do something that I don't do. So that I don't. Then as a result, I feel better in myself again about the Congruency. So one thing is for sure, you're an absolute master understanding the brain and brainwashing specifically. How can we start to use the things that you understand about human influence on our self

so we can start to brainwash oursel to be more confident and actually specifically achieve more of our goals. Brainwashing yourself, you have to get down to the mamalian brain, which is the middle one. Yeah. Yeah. So we have like human, there's mamalian and then the the Little spinal cord area of like the pawns and medulla like we have that as the reptilian part of our brain. So you have to train a dog essentially. So always think I always think of it in terms of a dog. So people are setting goals. People are doing all this

crazy goal setting where they're writing out their goals, writing out their vision, all that which is fantastic. Show it to your dog. We have to translate the goals to The mamalian brain. This is why vision boards are so unbelievably important because we work in visual images. So we need to get to the part of our brain that is non language, nonhuman, the part of our brain that makes all of our real deep decisions. This mamalian brain, this is what we have to use when we're doing goal setting. So let's say the first thing you want

to do when you're developing confidence, setting goals, no matter what it is, is develop a Relationship with your future self. Number one, there is no greater uh goal to set than number one goal. I I need to develop a better relationship with my future self where every decision I make is for my future self. It's not for me right now. So now every time I look backwards in time, it's with gratitude. Never regret, right? So I'm always looking back with gratitude and I'm always looking forward in time with Concern. I'm very concerned about my future

self. So how do I show myself that future self? Most people don't prioritize their future self because they're not they don't have a visual relationship with that person. One thing that I'm I make a lot of my clients do, there's I have a list of hundreds of things that that that we go through, but one big one they said download one of those apps that makes you look like 95 years old that's like It's called Facetune or something like that and or old booth or I can't remember the names of a few of them but

it makes you look like a hundred years old and you print that out and put it around your office, put it around your bathroom mirror. Put it in the places where you're going to see it regularly and you start to develop. There's no words. You're not writing number one, best in the world. None of that stuff is written on there. The words don't Matter. Always remember that like I'm training a dog here. It's just images and pictures, right? So, I'm starting to develop a very recurring visual relationship with this future self. So, what happens to

the brain when we see lots and lots and lots of photos of things? Think of the last time like you were shopping for a car. So, like I the car that I drive right now, it's it's white and it's kind of a four-wheel drive, but it's a sport car kind of a Thing. When I'm shopping for that vehicle, I looked at it online for months and months and months. Like, I channeled it. I looked at images, YouTube reviews. I did all of this stuff. And what does our brain do when we go car shopping and

when we ultimately buy a new car? It's we see it everywhere, right? And people call it the reticular activating system. It's called the reticular formation in the brain. And all we've done is program our Reticular formation to search for that thing and prioritize that thing. And we didn't do it with words. I didn't do it by reading a novel about BMWs or about Chevrolets. I didn't do that. I did it. There's just repetitive exposure to imagery, some kind of image. So, how can I get that with all of my goals? And this is why vision

boards are important. In in the leadup to me moving to this house and having the the business Success that I do right now, I bought a giant flat screen TV. It was a cheap one. It was like an LG or something from Best Buy. Mounted it on the wall of my office. So like you and I are sitting here. The desk I work at every day is right there beside us. So right in front of my desk, I had that big giant TV. I bought a cheap like Kindle Fire that was for kids, but it

would just run it would be able to run a slide deck, a PowerPoint, and I had Eight or nine00 images on there that I wanted to put and just jam into my brain. So, I put it on repeat, the slideshow on repeat, plugged in the HDMI, it started playing on the TV, got a giant piece of duct tape, taped the tablet to the back of the TV, left it on 24 hours a day. So, I'm sitting there working all this imagery non-stop, non-stop, non-stop going into my head. Some I will say some of the slides

did have language on them. It's like new Beliefs that I need or I'll write out my limiting beliefs in a way that looks absolutely ridiculous. M um like uh one of my limiting beliefs uh when I first started was like I I shouldn't make a lot of money because I don't have lots of experience doing this in the civilian world. I've only done it for the US military. So I rewrote that limiting belief to say your kids don't need money. Your kids don't deserve to have money. Right? to make my brain just Repulsed, disgusted by

that idea. And I would put some of those on there and it I would automatically make me disgusted with all of those limiting beliefs. And a lot of my clients take those and just take their limiting beliefs to the extreme and they'll make it their wallpaper. They'll make it look like a motivational poster that says, uh, you're too weak to make money or you should never ask for money. That's for other people. That's interesting. At What point could it do the opposite though and just negatively program somebody? The moment it starts turning into repetitive imagery.

So if if it's on their wallpaper they're seen every day. It it's not an image of that thing, it's the text. So it's the human brain that's rejecting the limiting belief over and over and mian brain is about images, symbols, images, symbols and feeling and emotion and smell. Uh, one of the thing, Man, I'm gonna I've never said this out loud. This is a little embarrassing, but I have these air filters. There's one over in that corner of the room, but it's it's got a giant open thing in the bottom of it where there's a

filter that there's a fan on top, but it pulls air through the bottom up up up this air filter. I went to the bank and took out like 10k in cash and I asked for it in fives. I dumped that into the air filter just my office for like two straight Years smelled like a money factory. So I wanted every how can I get every single sense of my five senses involved in achieving all of these goals. M and I remember at the beginning I was living when I retired from the military I was living

in a house that was maybe $60,000 for the whole house. And my annual income was like I was a chief so I made more than most people in the military but my annual income was like 88,000 which is pretty pretty okay but we Didn't have much money at all. We had bills and all this other stuff, but I would every probably every other day drive to the nicest neighborhood where every house was a million plus. And I would just drive through the neighborhood like anybody else, wave at everybody. And one day I had my son

with me and his name's William. And everybody was happy in the neighborhood. And I was pointing this Out to him like, "Look how nobody's walking for transportation. Everyone's walking for enjoyment around this neighborhood. You notice everybody smiles. Everybody waves at each other. He's like, "Yeah, they're happy because they live here." And I said, "I think it's you got that backwards. They live here because they've lived a life full of gratitude and enjoyment and they've had all of this stuff, the self-discipline to go on The walks and all of this. They're they're enjoying themselves and they

were smiling before they moved into this neighborhood. They don't move into a neighborhood and then you finally everything's good. It's like a person who who wins the lottery. You're happy for like 48 hours, maybe maybe six months and you're you're back to baseline. So events don't make us happy. But I wanted to expose myself to that neighborhood. I wanted to expose my kids To that stuff before we had money. I wanted them to start getting used to it. So when it comes to setting goals, this the gold standard question is how many ways can I

think of that I could expose my dog to my goals? How could I expose all my goals to a mammal and involve as many senses as I possibly can? Because then then what's happening? So talk to someone like is this so because I can understand in a metaphysical sense um you know Things we focus on you know what about on a neuroscience level like is this like spiking something in this motivates us or so we've talked about the IAS which you called the reticular formation is is the reticular activating system the wrong language for that

or no it's I think it's accurate language it's not an official term okay um it the reticular formation plays a part in this. Okay. There's there's other parts of the brain that play that are in a loop that that Make the reticular activation system, but the reticular formation is your big part of your brain that you really want to focus on. Okay. So, I can understand that the things we put inside of our head, we're going to start to see opportunities out there to help make that goal happen. The metaphysical sort of thing, we manifest

it. But is there anything else happening on like a chemical level, electricity level, or that? Yeah. What? Why else are you doing This? Absolutely. And chemical and electricity is all we've really got that we know of that we know of right now. Now we're getting into quantum stuff and who knows when we're going to discover that, but we know so little about neuroscience. Um, so that if you ever study neuroscience, every paragraph or every 3 minutes while your professor is talking, he'll say, "Well, we don't really know any of this for sure, but here's the

theory." Like every 5 Seconds. We don't even know where memories are stored. M like it's bizarre. So when we're we're routinely exposing, we're using focus, tons of focus, right? So we're I'm going to do everything I can to rearrange my house. I'm going to change my physical appearance. I'm going to change my outfits. I'm doing as much as I can to inject novelty, right? So the just like what Caesar Milan does, I'm injecting a lot of novelty and Newness into it. So the brain says, "Whoa, this is different. I need to pay attention. This is

not like it was before." So could that be 800 pictures coming up on your TV? Yep. Rearranging furniture, painting the walls in your house, buying a new car. So just that in itself is going to make you pay attention more. Yeah. And it's going to make your brain say, "This is not like before." So how how many different ways can I get my brain to say, "This is not Like before." Then we have authority. So who am I spending time with? What am I watching online? Stop. Like you go on a social media diet now.

Like if you're my client, it starts today. You're on a social media diet. You get maybe six minutes a day. And if you are on social media for your business, hire somebody to do it for you. Have a social media manager who does all of your stuff. Uh so that authority is really important. Who am I spending time with? And that Includes people online. If I'm listening to Joe Rogan, that's great. Am I listening to somebody on Joe Rogan that's also really negative, really bringing people down, which he doesn't really have a lot of negative

people on hardly ever. And then it's tribe. And this is not just who am I spending time with. The tribe part of this is what am I doing around my social circle? Am I keeping the important parts of my social Circle fulfilled? Uh, one thing that I recommend a lot of people do is at the start of every day or every couple of days, take out your phone, go into your messages, go to the very bottom, all the way to the bottom, the the most the oldest message on your phone, and whoever that person is,

you send them a text says, "Hey, no need to respond. Just want to let you know I was thinking about you. Hope you're doing well. Would love to hear how you're Doing or hope we catch up soon." And I have it in my phone where if you if I just type BBB, it automatically types that message and I just type that person's name in the very top. BBB. So you can set up a text shortcut for that. So am I keeping my tribe? Am I acting to my tribe? It's not just who am I surrounding

myself with. Am I being a good person for those people, too? Nobody talks about that. It's like you see a million courses out there on how To sell. You don't see any courses out there on how to make good courses or how to make good products. It's more important to sell. It's also important to have good products, but the that those things don't really exist. It's all about selling, right? So, let's also be good part of a tribe for other people. And then the emotion, and this is the the repetition, the scent that I'm surrounding

myself, the vision board That's on absolute repeat non-stop throughout the day. and all of the different ways that I can get this animal, this animal to start behaving differently. So, focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. We've got to start with that. What do we do if So, cuz I can when you were talking about like driving for the rich neighborhoods, I can remember the exact same thing. And then I'm just going to say how it's Coming out and at the risk of sounding like a [ __ ] Um, there was a point when I was really

poor and I wanted what I have now. Then I have what I have now. I live 200 meters from the beach, drive a Range Rover, I travel whenever I want, make millions a year, great friends. Um, what I've found is that ne it's it's it doesn't matter as much anymore. Yeah. I don't know if you get it. Like if I see a nice house, I'm like, well, cuz so many my people in my network are super Rich and you know, like one of my, you know, one one of my close friends will turn over 100

million bucks in their first four years of business. And a lot of our circle are just it's very normal. It's the new normal. Yeah. And I even noticed at the start of this year going saying to my girlfriend going, not that I don't want to stretch for like we got the goal in the next 10 years to, you know, get to grow to 40 mil a year. Um, not that that's not a goal, but far Out I was a lot more motivated when I didn't have much like hungry dogs running faster. Yeah. Now I'm somewhat

comfortable where what the motivation now is to, you know, 10x business is like [ __ ] Well, my my change of lifestyle is only changed this much where before the change lifestyle from broke to millionaire is that much. Yeah. What can we do to keep that edge and and still stay motivated when we might fall into a place of complacency? I think Understanding what kind of freedom you actually want. I think most people pursue the wrong kind of freedom. So, do you want emotional freedom, time freedom, location freedom where I can travel wherever I want?

Um, governing freedom? I want um there's so many types of freedom. Um, and in my courses, we teach that there are six. And I'll send you the image if you want to like throw it on the screen right here. But the problem most people get into is they're Chasing the wrong kind of freedom just because it started off wrong or they thought that this is what freedom really means. This is what success means. And I think you reach a level like you and me or if you get to a level where you're making uh over

a couple million dollars a year, the ultimate thing is I think if we're really really honest with ourselves, the ultimate thing that we're really wanting To challenge oursel with next is can I unzip this ego costume and like actually enjoy my life outside of this little costume that that I wear. That's definitely for me. That's the biggest thing. That's that was the biggest thing probably for the last two years is more than business. Can I live a life that's out of my ego? Can I like start peeling this little costume off one piece at a

time and actually enjoy my life? And for me, I think the new the newest challenge for me, maybe this is so now we're we're really just talking now. But my newest challenge to myself is I'm looking at people who calmly enjoy their life or just very calmly enjoy what they're doing. Uh they're satisfied with what they have and they're they're composed. They have this composure and just contentment. They're very content with their life. I look at those people, even the people that are poor that live Like that. That's how I used to look at rich

people. Like the now that I have I have money, I'm looking at those people and saying that's the that's the truth. Like getting money is great. It helps you do all kinds of stuff. But the truth is, can I get to the point where I'm living that life of just slow, deliberate, slow, intentional living instead of like 9 to5, I'm taking 95 meetings a day. I don't have time to use The bathroom between meetings for like six hours in a row. Uh cuz there's this backto back to backtoback podcast and Zoom and then interview and

then all of this crazy stuff. It's like can I get to a point where I'm slowly enjoying uh the present moment and not just overwhelmed with with data. So time time freedom is what you people like you and I once you get money it's just time like yeah can I get better at enjoying the moment and get Buy back more of my time. Man I feel like um I could talk to you all day. So, next time back in America, round three. Let's do it. Um, everyone here loved, if you guys haven't seen the first

episode we did with Chase, go and check that out. We'll put the link somewhere you can find it. It was in the other other corner of this room. It was in the other corner of this room. Um, and that episode was wild. I once got a completely different angle on this one Cuz that first one was all about understanding deception and spotting liars and that was fantastic. So, go check that out. But obviously, you're a wealth of knowledge. You have so much to give. So, where can everybody find everything that you do, find you online,

and get access to, you know, some of this epic stuff you teach? Number one place to go is NCI, just like my shirt says, nci.un university, and just get started there. We've got free, tons of Free stuff you can get started with. It's great. Or you can grab one of these on uh Amazon. It is somehow the number one bestselling book in behavior psychology right now. And they have it's like a encyclopedia on literally how to control anybody. It is a textbook. It is the textbook for that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Amazing. So, uh, to

wrap up these interviews, I have a final question. I ask it every time, so I would have asked it to you last time. So, I might change It so you don't know what's going to come then. All right. If I was to put you into a rocket ship and send you off to Mars, never to return to Earth again, and you only had 30 seconds to deliver your final speech to the world, what would it be? And I'm going to live on Mars. Yep. Uh my final 30 second speech to the world. Um the greatest

deception that you that we have all been sold is that work is the answer and family is not. Uh and that we're prioritizing Artificial communities on social media instead of that of our neighbors and the people that are around us. And if the power went out for one solid month and you had no water supply, would you rather have social media or really good neighbors? And I think um getting back to just normal living and knowing who your neighbors are, getting closer to your family again and figuring out what's truly truly important is the most

important thing You could ever do. And number two, absolutely take a couple hours today to figure out the sources of dopamine in your life and whether or not you want dopamine coming from those things.