Gerson e a Leoa: A Tragédia da Saúde Mental - PODPEOPLE INVERSO COM DRA. ANA BEATRIZ | Ep. 017

When I saw this case and was quite shocked, it never crossed my mind to think, "Oh, it was the animal's fault, oh, it was the security's fault." This delusional guy truly believed he could do it. And it was like, you know, like his life's goal, to tame the lioness. If you think about it, what does a lion evoke? Strength, power. In a life where he controlled nothing, didn't know what to eat, didn't know where he was, taming the lion was practically like organizing the chaos he was living in. And he hung himself from a landing

gear because he said he was going to Africa Domes. She was devastated because he was a wreck, his feet were all bleeding, and he didn't feel any pain. When the gut is balanced, our energy, our mood, and even our mental clarity change for the better. Our episode today is sponsored by Doctor's First, a supplement line that combines science, quality, and responsibility—three fundamental pillars when we talk about health. And I wanted to highlight two supplements that make a lot of sense for those who feel their body is Asking for a little more care. First is Glutamaster

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said you disappeared from social media, that we took "Inverso" off the air. Well, yes. I think it's because of the last controversial episodes—there weren't any, right? They took me off the schedule. Lies. Lies. We came back because we were really working, working, working, but we wanted To come back and we'll always come back. However. Now, right? Uh, before we start the subject, next year there will even be a live show, okay, guys? About consultations. No, it's already decided. Since you always say it's good to be invited, because the guest gets, right, the little gifts, the

little treats like that, and the interviewer doesn't. Doctors First, thinking about that, today brought you a double gift. Oh, really? I thought it was yours. I see that over there. Is this for me? Oh, of course, because I'm the interviewee, I'm the guest. Next time we invest, I get one too. Wonderful. No, "Inverso" doesn't have an inverse. Inverse of the inverse. That's true. No, it won't work. It even tied my head in knots just thinking about it. Bativo Complex. Good, very good. This one's really good, huh, Gabriel? I'll tell you. Yeah, I think it's like

this, since we're going to send it... It's creatine. Okay, my dear. Unflavored Creatine Whey Protein, which is wonderful, because what do you mix it with? With what? Acai. Uh-huh. Oh, it has vitamin D with enzyme Q10, which is a super antioxidant, ultra-high and ultra- 90% omega-3. And can you take all of that? It depends, my dear, it depends on your goals. For example, Golden Standard magnesium is excellent for women, it's fantastic. With enzyme Q10, it's a great antioxidant. Creatine isn't just for those who exercise. Creatine also has many studies today talking about its function in

brain development and maintenance of brain health. In fact, I thought I'd get it in the next winter because it was about creatine, which is now being used more for athletes for cognitive support than just physical support like before. Exactly. Yes, I see we'll have to plan another impasse. We'll have to plan another one. But thank you so much, thank you so much, doctor. I loved it because I always give and don't receive. This time it's fair. Thank you so much. Thank you very much indeed. Yes, something very sad happened today. It was on November 30th,

a Sunday, that episode with Gerson and Leo, right? Ah, at that park in João Pessoa. Yes, in João Pessoa. Gerson ended up climbing the wall there, he scaled 6 meters, to give you an idea, 6 meters is a lot, right? It's a lot, it's a great height. So he climbed 6 meters, he went, how can I say it, right? He went to jump into Leo's enclosure and she ended up receiving him as a predator. She usually receives those who cross her territory, and he ended up committing a fatality. Uh-huh. One point I wanted to bring

up here is to talk a little about this anti-asylum law, because it seems that Gerson had a history of schizophrenia, it seems that his mother also had it, and even his grandmother had it too. So I found it interesting because where are these people staying, since the anti-asylum law closed all the hospitals, and sometimes the CAPS (Psychosocial Care Centers) may not have all the necessary tools to accommodate these people? It's a big challenge. We talked about the anti-asylum law in 2023 in an episode of Pod People, which we even discussed with Rodrigo Pimentel at the

time, okay? If I'm not mistaken, it was in 2023, early 2023, episode 20, right at the beginning. Exactly. And then we remembered at the time that this legal resolution, because it's not a federal law, a legal resolution, had already been proposed in 2001, Right? And then all this time it took to implement it, which was to end the hospitals, asylums, that had psychiatric patients who had problems with the law. So, this law is very specific because it ends the hospitals for patients who had problems with the law and had psychiatric problems, okay? So, we always

have to see that these are more complex cases, not simple cases. When this happened, and at the time, if I'm not mistaken, Rosa Weber, the retired minister, right? Minister Rosa Weber of the Supreme Federal Court retired , and she gave the final approval, but it had nothing to do with her. This was already underway to come into effect in order to deactivate the hospitals, the judicial asylums, so to speak. And at the time we talked about how this would work? Because it would come into effect, if I'm not mistaken, from 2024 onwards, that's when the

actual deactivation would begin. Yes. But it seems that in 2023 they already started doing this. Yes. They have until 2026, if I'm not mistaken, to do it. Yes. But they already resolved everything in the first year. Well, I think the Following: those psychiatric hospitals, they were really warehouses, no doubt about it, where people were thrown there to their fate or until they died. But the point is that if you have something bad, you have to improve it, not eliminate it. Uh-huh. Why? Because there are very serious psychiatric cases that require continuous, 24-hour comprehensive care. So,

when I saw this case and was quite shocked, it never crossed my mind to think, "Oh, it was the animal's fault," or "Oh, it was security's fault," because it was clearly just someone who was out of touch with reality, suffering from some kind of delusion. What is a delusion? Believing in a reality that is only real for me or for that person. Only a person suffering from a delusion could escalate that. At that height, and then, with determination, he went after a wild animal. Because you observe the scene, the animal was there quietly on the

opposite side of that tree he climbed down from, right? Yes. And it was right next to the glass, it was right next to where people were visiting. So there was an option for people to look face to face with that lioness, and she was calm, there was no stress because She was already used to people warning her, you know, about this interaction with the glass. Of course, it's a special glass, everything is perfect. When he climbs down and he climbs the wall and the lioness comes down, you see her reaction quickly. What is this? That

was strange for her. That interaction was absolutely strange, except for the caretakers. T t t. She identified a threat and she went in that direction. And at no point did he back down like: "I'm going to climb up and get out of here." Go back. So, that was already a huge indication that this guy was delusional. It was a huge indication. Of course you, uh, you were there, no, you weren't there. But we're aware of things, right? 35 years old, right? You don't need to have the full picture, right? But there are signs of psychosis.

I said. And then, as things started to come up, I said: "Guys, if it's psychosis, this guy probably has schizophrenia. If he has schizophrenia of this severity, we probably have a family history, yes, which is what I always joke about, HPP, past medical history, yes, family history, all of that is called Anamnesis. Anamnesis, when I receive a patient and I say: 'What is your main complaint?' 'Oh, I came here, let's suppose it was him, because I want to tame lions.' OK? Then you say: 'But you work in a circus, you do this or that?' No,

I want to tame lions. I mean, when the person starts talking about things that don't make sense because there's no context for it, because if he worked in a circus, or something zoological, he's a zoo apprentice, right? The issue with delusion isn't whether it's true or false, it's the way it's presented without context. I understand. Logically, okay? And then you Look, when you said, " Let's talk about this?" Let's. And I said, "Uh, I think understanding what happened is relatively easy. Now, to warn that this is happening to many other people who are living on

the streets, who need comprehensive assistance, often hospitalization, support, right? They don't have that, sometimes they don't have a home, right? How are they going to manage outside of that CAPS [Psychosocial Care Center], if I'm not mistaken, right? And then the CAPS, what happened when they were abolished, right, when it was Decreed, what happened? The alternative was the CAPS. The problem is that the CAPS is an outpatient clinic, it doesn't have hospitalization. It doesn't have an inpatient structure, it's an outpatient clinic. Ah, it works, it works very well for most cases, but for serious cases you

need hospitalization. You need it. And I'll say more, what do you do when there are no more hospitals? I think this resolution will have to be reviewed to create a solution for those who are invisible." I understand. For example, if you look at the last few years—and it's not a coincidence, because that's when the law came into effect—not a federal law, a resolution, but let's call it the anti-asylum law—they started closing them down. You can see the number of chronically schizophrenic and chronically psychotic people on the streets has increased, and it's increased in all states,

not just one. No, I've been traveling a lot, and I've observed this. For example, in a place I visited a lot last year, and this year, which is almost over, Minas Gerais, Belo Horizonte. I was in Belo Horizonte, and it was very interesting. I stay near the Savace shopping mall, and I like to stay there; I already Know those little shops, I get along with everyone. I was looking at the shops I already know, I even know the salespeople, I chat with them. And then at night, I think it was around 7:30 or 8 pm...

That night, uh, I was with Fernanda, right? And then she came up to me and said, "Oh, let's go, let's stop by the mall because I think there's that makeup store, I don't know." I said, "Oh, let's go, let's go, I need it." What happened when we were going to cross the street to go to... Shopping Savace, which opened a Kiko store, which I love, it's a makeup brand I really like. Then, a little while later, I heard a yell like, "Turn it off, turn it off!" I thought, "I looked, I saw Fernanda, I think

she's talking to you." She spoke to me like a good assistant, always ready for anything, right? Exactly. Then I looked and said, and then he looked. Then I looked in that direction, and he said, "Turn that off, turn that computer off, it's interfering with my head. Turn it off, turn it off." Clearly, he was delusional, and in his head, in his delusion, I didn't have a computer at all, I didn't even have my cell phone in my hand, I had a bag. Yes, In his head I had a computer in my bag and that computer

was emitting waves or doing things that were altering all his thoughts. And then I literally had to speed up, go into the mall, okay? Why? Because he could attack, but not me personally, but who is he seeing me as? Who is he seeing? In these cases, what's the best way? The best way is to ask the police for help, right? To say: "Look, this guy is delusional." You understand? We have to see if they can get him to a hospital, we have to see if they can get medication, because talking isn't enough. People have to

understand that sometimes it's nice to see things like, oh, in the movies, the person goes there, gets therapy and talks. That's wonderful, but there are cases that aren't like that. We would love it if it were, there are serious cases. And psychosis is one of those things. The most common psychosis is schizophrenia. There are others. So, I've noticed that these people are increasing because they have nowhere to go. They lived inside a hospital because the illness itself led them to problems With the police, with the system, with the law. Why? Because he could come to

me, he could attack me, and I repeat, it wasn't me, it wasn't Ana Beatriz, it was someone he judged and was interfering in a very painful way with his thinking. Damn. And this happens, it doesn't take much. When we have it, I want people to understand what psychosis is, what schizophrenia is, because it's not something like, oh, they had a trauma and stayed, it's not something the person controls, right? It's literally them being in another world, a magical world, and there's no word that will solve it. There's nobody. And I mean nobody, no pastor, no

coach, no psychiatrist, no psychologist, they're not going to come and do this, they won't. If they do that, they're putting the person's life and their own life at risk. Understand? Why? Because those who have had cases like this, who have worked in hospitals and seen it, know what I'm talking about. Those who haven't seen it, have you had an episode like this that marked you, that has happened in these hospital experiences? Yes, yes, yes. This was something I 've seen, for example, the other day I was in Fortaleza, I looked out the hotel window and

said: "There's a chronically schizophrenic person there, because they're walking the streets, where are they going to live? There's nowhere to go, right? Because they have nowhere to return to. Because their families disconnected a long time ago. I understand. So, we need to review this resolution. Not so that we regress. The vast majority of psychiatric cases are treatable in outpatient clinics. No doubt about it, that's right, but we can't accommodate these cases with the necessary severity, with the necessary housing, within the CAPS (Psychosocial Care Centers). So, a discussion opens up. I remember when I was doing

my residency at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro hospital, in Praia Vermelha, next to Pinel, here's IPUB, which we call the Institute of Psychiatry of the Federal University. We had many of these cases, many. So, those were the hospitalizations that lasted the longest, and sometimes they lasted the entire time, right?" The person was constantly going in and out of the residence, always there. Why? Because they lacked family support, they lacked access to medication. Because, you go to the CAPS (Psychosocial Care Center), you get your Medication, take it home, and take it. Yes. How can

a delusional schizophrenic, with everyone against them, with everyone plotting against them, spontaneously take their medication? They won't. Back when I was doing my residency, we had a depot medication, that injection you give once a month. Uh-huh. It already existed, but the side effects were very significant, so you had the injection and you had to give the person an oral medication to lessen the side effects. So it wasn't very comfortable. Well, today there's been a lot of progress. We have depot medications that last a month. In the United States, some last three and even six months.

Look at that. Exactly. Which is great, right? Today in Brazil there's a monthly one that's very good, called Invega Sustena, right? Before, there was only Invega Sustena. Invega Sustena because it was available and it was released gradually. I understand. So, back then we had few options. Today Invega Sustena is a very good depot medication that you give once a month. But I ask you, in Gerson's case, let's suppose We had made the diagnosis, which we didn't. So, we can see here that from when he was born until he was 10 years old, Gesson's life was

very complicated because he was born into extreme poverty. He had four other siblings who were adopted, or rather, they were adopted. Exactly. But his mother had severe schizophrenia, his grandmother had schizophrenia, and when we researched it properly, when I looked and said, " There's a story, Ganete," it was when he was 8 years old, right? Actually, when he was 10, he was caught by the Federal Highway Police, wandering around at 3 in the morning. They asked him, walking on the road, "Where are you going?" And all he could say was, "I'm running away from my

house. My mother and grandmother live there." And "my house," look at the literal thing, "my house, my mother, my grandmother." At 10 years old, he couldn't even form words, you know? I don't know if this is related, but that's when the Child Protective Services were contacted, and at that point, he entered the institutional care process for the first time. It was temporary, it 's always temporary, right? And Gerson was going to be adopted very quickly, like his other siblings were, but in reality, he wasn't. And one of the things, looking at it, no, but I

think at 10 years old, the Child Protective Services were contacted. They didn't make any kind of diagnosis, no. But they did send someone to take him away from his mother, they didn't take him away from his mother because they found that the mother was severely schizophrenic and incapable of taking care of her children, and they said it was a situation of extreme poverty and psychiatric chaos. Yes. Can you imagine five children, a schizophrenic woman, five children, a severely schizophrenic woman, a father who, who knows, left , and a schizophrenic grandmother. It seems to me that

the grandmother's condition isn't as severe as the mother's, but even so, he's schizophrenic, right? And then we have to see, does he have access to medication? How is that access? Does everyone who goes there to get it have the medication? Can he take it alone at home? How is it? Can he take it alone at home? Sometimes, you know, a fixed income, right, like, for example, there are several police records he had that were for him to eat, you know, so he could get A living like that. So, it's because then you see the mother

destitute, they go to a shelter, you know, to an institution, and the four siblings are adopted and he's left behind. And he's left behind. And then you see, it seems you even saw Verônica Oliveira, right, who was a child welfare counselor at the time, said that nobody would adopt a child like him. Not because he was violent, but because he already showed visible signs of mental disorder and intellectual disability. Look again, the intellectual disability too, right? Look, he had cognitive impairment and undiagnosed schizophrenia. And the disruptive behavior, which is impulsive, violent behavior, was a consequence

of the schizophrenia itself. Like this guy who kept saying, "Turn off your computer, turn off your computer." You said it, right? He was in so much pain, it's not that he was violent, but he was in so much pain that he was capable of flying at me or my bag to try to turn off a supposed computer that I didn't even have at that moment. So, uh, I'll say it again, we talk a lot about depression, we talk a lot About anxiety, we talk a lot about autism. And within autism, there are also very serious

cases, which we're always talking about, cases of autism, uh, that are much easier to manage, but there are also very serious cases of autism that require comprehensive interventions, right? So I think the cast was a tragedy waiting to happen, wasn't it? And even when he turned 17, he had already been through several foster homes, right, and had run away from some of them. Uh, there's even a note here that said, quote, right, that he had a mental retardation diagnosis with conduct disorder and a recommendation for comprehensive care and full-time regimen. But he turned 18 and

was released, right? He went to the streets. So when he turned 18, he was automatically discharged. And that's another traumatic thing, right? These children are taken away when they turn 18, like, "Oh, your time is up, goodbye." Sometimes he was already getting used to whoever was there, the other children, the caregivers. Being there was very difficult because the cognitive deficit is more of a schizophrenic structure, it's very difficult. If there wasn't a Formal diagnosis and there wasn't adequate treatment, living with him wasn't easy . But, for example, I was reading in the column I love,

True Crime, that he spent many long periods on the street, okay? He slept on benches because he was, as you said, his time was up, goodbye. 18 years old, there he was, without family, without a guardian, without a fixed address, without financial autonomy, without a support and protection network. What was left for Gerson? No treatment, because when the diagnosis came, it only showed the cognitive deficit. All that came was cognitive impairment, conduct disorder, and psychosis. So, where is it now ? After he turned 18, he was left to his own devices. Veronica recounts, after 18

years, he was left to his own devices, he left institutional care and entered the prison system, right? Which is where Gerson didn't have a home; he spent most of his nights at his grandmother's house. Look, you see, his grandmother has schizophrenia, at least she took Gerson in, so sometimes, right? He would go there and spend only the nights, okay? Uh-huh. And what Really gets to him is that sometimes he didn't even have that support from his grandmother because she couldn't either. That's right. Sometimes he wasn't even conscious, that's when he slept on the street. So

there's a part here in the True Crime column that says: "In his adolescence, Gerson spent long periods on the streets, sleeping on park benches, begging for food and pleading to be adopted by strangers who passed by." Uh-huh. Because his four siblings were adopted quickly, so he stayed too, right? Yes. He couldn't stay in the shelters that took him in. Hunger was constant. On more than one occasion, he committed petty theft to eat. On others, he threw stones at police cars to get arrested and get shelter and meals, which is a common practice, if we look

at it today, right, for homeless people. Yes. He himself said that when he was in jail he felt he received more care than on the street. How can that be, right? He was imprisoned, right? In 2025, that's where he was arrested. But before getting to that part, I just wanted to finish up what Veronica said, that since childhood—Veronica was on the Child Protective Services, that's right, from the Child Protective Services—Gesson obsessively repeated the same dream since childhood: "I'm going to Africa to tame lions." And that's not innocent childhood fantasy, is it? What's the difference when

we see that it's a fantasy or a psychosis? Just because fantasies have a period. Hmm. For example, a child naturally goes through a superhero phase, a Spider-Man phase, an astronaut phase, a Barbie phase. It's a phase, right? When that persists, right? And it becomes a goal. Have you seen how many children say: "I want to be a firefighter"? How many will be? Wow, very few, right? Because there's this thing about childhood dreams, about heroes, about what people recognize. Look, Dom Leão, beautiful. So, in reality you see him. He had this fantasy, but it gradually took

shape, uh, like something delusional, in the sense that it stopped being a childhood fantasy and became a life goal. If you think about it, what does "lion" evoke? Strength, power. In a life where he controlled nothing, didn't know what to eat, didn't know where he was, taming the lion was practically like organizing the chaos he lived in. It's like A synonym for strength, right? If the lion is strong, I tame the lion, I am strong too. I can too. So, deep down he had, he structured a fantasy that became a delusion, that became an obsessive

thought, that became an idea to be pursued and then became action, and it became an action, uh, which in reality was when he invaded the João Pessoa airport. Yes. He hung himself from the landing gear of a Gol plane. Why? Because he said he was going to Africa to love Leo. Yes. So he got there, he went, he chased, he even went to the airport, he cut the access fence, in other words, he had already committed the act, right? He entered the runway and hid in the landing gear of a GO plane, believing he was

traveling to Africa. Detected by the cameras, he was rescued and nobody, right, the point is that nobody diagnosed him as having attempted assisted suicide or taken a serious action, right? It was only registered as behavior. I don't think it was a suicide attempt, absolutely not. I think it was serious ideation. The delirium was clear. Yes, they only said it Was risky behavior. But risky, yes, he was putting his life at risk. Can you imagine if he had stayed in the landing gear, he could definitely have fallen from up there and died. Yes. It's very cold

there too, right? So, it's when the temperature rises, right? No, I don't think he could have stayed there either. Maybe. It's because the landing gear retracts, right? So, there were cases of people who managed to do it in Europe, you know, they wanted to flee the country, they stayed in the landing gear, but there were a couple, or I think it was in Afghanistan too, also getting stuck. So we saw that horrible scene, right, when the United States leaves, right, after the end of the war and retreats, uh, people trying to leave the country. Exactly.

Yes, there was a Russian who managed to survive, but there were several who, you know, in these attempts to escape using the landing gear that didn't work, who ended up dying later, also because it's a very small square, right? If you're more robust, you can't stay there, you'll be squeezed. And another thing, when we think that at 19 years old, he already had, You know, a mark, and this one from the landing gear was when, more or less? They didn't mention it here, but it was recently, it was when he was on this escalation, you

see, at 18, he's released and then it's that thing of petty crimes, petty crimes, then he gets arrested. I think in 2025 he was arrested in January, right after Christmas last year. And he was imprisoned until June here, look. Uh, he was here, look, he started being monitored on December 26, 2024, with difficulty adhering to treatment. He would show up some days, disappear others. And the last time he went to CAPS (Psychosocial Care Center) was the day before his death, it was November 27, 2025. And he didn't return in 2028, right? But when he was

caught this year in January, he was imprisoned until June. So you see, even without treatment, being in a place where he was imprisoned, his life was preserved. How crazy. That was when he jumped, released, and that's how it went, from January 5th to June 5th, 2025. June, right? Yes, it was supposed to be 5 months in prison, but it went a little over the deadline, right? Then after the indictment, they released him. On October 16th, 2025, He was arrested, but he was released at a custody hearing and sent to the HUP in Recife. On October

26th, 2025, 10 days later, right, he was arrested again and released at a custody hearing and admitted to the HP in Recife again. On November 24th , almost a month later, he was arrested for throwing a cobblestone at a police car. On the 25th, he was released at a custody hearing and sent to CAPS. Look, the other times... He was referred to the HP, right? Then he was referred to C, to a hospital. That's right, right? So, there was a judge who was very assertive, he made an almost perfect statement. Of course, it wasn't Rodrigues

Marques Silva Lima from the sixth criminal court of the TJP of Paraíba. That's right. It was on October 30, 2025. Exactly. One month before. Exactly. He put it like this, read his sentence. Not a sentence, right? His statement, because it's very assertive. He talks about the diagnosis, he talks about the need for comprehensive care, that is, not outpatient, it's comprehensive. Oh, what's his name? It's Rodrigo, Rodrigo Marques. On October 30, 2025, exactly one month before Gerson's death, Judge Rodrigo Marques Silva Lima issued an order for hospitalization. He ordered, quote, right, hospitalization and psychiatric custody and

treatment hospital. The HCTP. Uh-huh. It's the most appropriate measure to safeguard public order and, above all, to ensure that Gerson de Melo Machado receives the intensive, supervised psychiatric medical treatment he needs. Let me just explain to people what the acronym HCTP stands for: psychiatric treatment custody hospital. It's precisely for people who have psychiatric disorders and have problems with the justice system, who have committed some type of crime. And then he says, right? The judge recognizes, recognized, right? The severe schizophrenia, the involuntary treatment was insufficient, and the need for an integrated regime. So what's the problem,

right? The defense... Look how cool. Severe schizophrenia, he adds something that before was only what? Deficit and deviant conduct. Tranquility of conduct and violent behavior. Violent behavior, okay? He adds Severe schizophrenia. He probably gets the information from his mother, his grandmother, he gets all the reports, right, to take a look at them. For example, he took a look, this judge looked at it, or the assistants or the people who help him, whatever it was, it was perfect. What did he say? It's not enough. The CAPS ( Psychosocial Care Center) isn't enough, and he ordered that

he be admitted to a custodial hospital. Now I ask you, why only now did he face the lion, right, the lioness in this case? No, it's not that only now. I think he always maintained this delusion. He was never medicated for schizophrenia, never. It seems to me that they were specific things for what? Cognitive issues, since medication is also very relative, and impulsive disruptive behavior. So I think he always maintained this idea as an idea, like, my life is a chaos, let's suppose, of course, and the judge also said that he alternated between moments of

speaking normally and moments where nothing was understandable, which we call derailed thinking. He speaks nonsense. Nothing makes sense at all. I understand. No, it doesn't make sense, right? It doesn't make sense within his delusion, but it wouldn't make sense to anyone else. So, he maintained the idea that the only certain thing in his life, in quotes, amidst the chaos, without treatment, without housing, without assistance, without anything, was that he had a goal: to tame lions. I understand. Which I think is quite symbolic of you, uh, if you tame an animal like a lion, you begin

to tame your life, right? Yes, I know if that's more or less it, but we're doing a very subjective, subjective, and superficial symbolic analysis, with what we have, right? With what we have. Now I ask you, based on this, uh, would the main mistake be, right? Not having diagnosed him earlier. Sometimes, if he had been diagnosed earlier, it would seem, for example, completely different, because, well, it's true that cases of schizophrenia that start earlier are more severe. Perhaps the mother received a late diagnosis, because schizophrenia is a serious disorder, but the earlier it appears, the

more severe it is, right? The more severe it is, the worse the prognosis. But the earlier you treat it, the better the prognosis. It will become quieter, in this case, it will only get worse. Without treatment. I understand. No, it won't get better. It can be the life of a person with schizophrenia, but better treated this way, right? Medicated in this case. It can be quite reasonable. That's what I'm saying, we've evolved a lot in this matter of treatment. The problem is how to treat someone, because I think there's a report from another judge who

released him after the judge had ordered him to be sent to a custodial hospital that didn't exist, because the Public Defender's Office said, "Look, we would love to enforce the law, but that hospital no longer exists in Paraíba." So she said that she, right? Then he goes and throws, I think the stone here, look, it was the cobblestone at the police car. He had a custody hearing on November 25th and he was released, right, with freedom, he had provisional release and he was sent to CAPS for compulsory treatment, completely contrary to the understanding of Judge

Rodrigo, who had emphasized the seriousness of Gerson's case. The result, right, Gerson again, he was released compulsorily because CAPS doesn't open. There's no place to house someone who needs comprehensive treatment. The CAPS (Psychosocial Care Center) doesn't open On Saturdays or Sundays. And at the CAPS you get the medication. Yes. But how will he have the awareness to take that medication? Now, now there's that, thinking about the anti-asylum law, before it was a warehouse for people, it was inhumane, and today it's homeless people, both are bad, right? There's a range of patients in Brazil today, they

have different conditions, right? They need, but they are serious, psychotic and chronic illnesses. Sometimes it would be a mistake for the system to treat everyone the same way, in a certain way? I think so. There has to be a level of severity, for example, even this requires hospitalization, there has to be hospitalization, right? There has to be that hospitalization. Otherwise, he could end up committing crimes against the lives of other people, against himself, in this case. Right, for sure. For example, he was at risk of his own life. Yes. And we saw, you know, how

the situation ended, but he was also running, putting other people at risk. Yes. Because throwing a cobblestone at a police car, right? A police car, if it hits the police officer, right? If it hits the police officer, in the head. If it hits someone before the police car arrives, well, it 's a cobblestone, we're not talking about a stone, that would already be too much, but a cobblestone is something, it's a weapon. It's something to think about, right? Like, for example, if the zoo were different, if it wasn't a wall, if it was a gate,

something, he had the confidence that he was going to tame that lion, he opens the lion's gate for the lion to go outside, right? Then he can't, the lion gets him and gets other people too, right? It could, it could, otherwise, it seems to me that the space there is very well organized, because for him to penetrate, he had to climb over it, almost climb over it, it was a coconut tree, I think. I don't know. I think it was a coconut tree because it was very tall. It wasn't a common tree. Yes, it wasn't

a common tree. And again, what you said, at no time did he hesitate to go back. No, he went and went, right? Someone came, looked at him. Anyone, look, anyone in their right mind would be afraid, would awaken the most primitive instinct of the human being, which is defense. They would try to climb. They could even be killed because they would try to climb, they couldn't, but they would try. But they would try. He didn't try at any moment. This shows the gravity of the state of consciousness in Gerson's case, because look, in any person

there exists in the brain the defense system, the alert system, that you can even look at that and say: "Ah, okay, I'll go there". How many times do people do this: "Oh, I'm going to skydive, go parachuting." When they get there, they freeze and don't go. And they don't go because the fear system paralyzes the person. He wasn't paralyzed at any point. He didn't make any return movement. Because his brain acts differently due to schizophrenia, right? It didn't send the signal to him. But that's the illness, that's the illness. Now, there's a different biochemistry there.

He really believed that he could. And that was like, you know, like it was his life's goal, to tame the lioness. And if we take Gerson, for example, from the age of 7, there are the first records of him, look, he had medical follow-up from a very young age, probably identifying intellectual delay and disorganized behavior. Then at "Ten years ago, in 2016, the first contact with the Child Protective Services was when he could be found alone on the highway, That's what we said. He was 8 years old and counselor Verônica started monitoring him. Then, from

the age of 10 to 17, from 2016 to 2023, the period of institutional care, monitoring by Child Protective Services, verification of disruptive behavior, but without a formal psychiatric diagnosis, right? And in 2023, at 17 years old, was the first formal psychiatric report. The psychiatrist diagnosed him, quote, mental retardation with conduct disorder, recommending full-time care and full-time regime. Then at 18 years old, from 2024 to 2025, he had multiple arrests, went to the socio-educational system, hospitalizations at Hospital Ulisses, Pernambuco, HUP, which HUP, I don't know. HP, Hospital Ulisses, right? Uh, Hospital Ulisses, Pernambuco, okay?" In Recife,

in October 2025, two episodes occurred on the 16th and 26th, which is what we discussed, where he was referred to the CAPS (Psychosocial Care Center) in João Pessoa, and the director reported a difficulty he had in adhering to treatment. But this is so crazy, because we're not talking about difficulty, it's not like resistance to treatment that we sometimes see, right? It's an inability to understand the Importance of treatment, to understand the context of the situation. When the judge speaks, he can't, he's not criminally responsible, he can't understand what he's doing, right? So I think saying

he lacked willingness to undergo treatment or that he wasn't attending regularly is very difficult, because with his condition it was impossible. If he had to undergo treatment, first it had to be hospitalization. After hospitalization, he could only leave when there was a tested, approved, and effective medication system. There was even a term you mentioned when we were starting, which is that schizophrenia can cause a lack of awareness, azognosia, right? Which isn't difficult. Azonognosia. That's it, which is this inability to... to have an understanding of your diagnosis. That's it. So, for him, he didn't have anything,

right? So how is he going to take medication if he doesn't have anything, right? Exactly. He does. Now, that's interesting. You see that he was picked up on the federal highway. If he was picked up on the federal highway, now I understand why he occasionally appeared in Recife. It's because he was taken to the hospital there. No, but he could also have Walked there. That's a very common characteristic of these long-distance people. No, I'm not talking about people who plan to travel in groups, for example, to sanctuaries, but you know when you're walking down the

road and suddenly see a person with chronic schizophrenia, they get on the road and walk, walk, walk, they become, you notice, their hair, their clothes, it's totally... without any care, self-care. And you see those people walking, walking, sometimes their feet bleed and they don't feel it. They have this thing, it's as if they're pursuing a goal and it's as if they don't feel pain. It's as if... I had a new patient who walked from Rio de Janeiro to Rezende. Wow, that's a lot. It's 2 hours by car. 2 and a half hours. It's 2 and

a half hours by car. And he went, he was going, he was in a psychotic state, he was going and there came a point where his clothes were falling apart. Imagine climbing the Serra das Araras on foot, right? His hair was totally... there came a point where he didn't have shoes anymore. I don't know if they caught him, I don't know if he took him, I don't know. So when he was found, he started walking around properties, you know, rural properties . Then there was a guy who shot him, I don't know what, bang, bang,

bang, and another guy came, looked, and said: "Hey, you're not well, where are you from?" Okay, okay, okay. He took him in, okay? And then he managed to get him to give his phone number. It was a landline at the time, his mother's phone. And his mother took a car and went there. When she arrived, she was devastated because he was a wisp of a weapon, imagine walking, walking, his feet all bleeding and he didn't feel the pain. To show you that it's a very big change. So, when I'm not making a similar comparison, when

Gerson doesn't back down from the lioness, it's similar to this patient who walked and walked, his foot bleeding, he didn't feel it. Yes. Yes, it's when it 's such a serious illness that you disconnect from basic, essential things, essential instincts. "Survival. So I remember, he was a very difficult patient, but unlike Gerson, he was a patient who had family support, his parents were separated, he had a sister, everyone came together, he was on medication. In the beginning we had to hospitalize him, we did hospitalize him, and after we stabilized him, he left with everyone having

this commitment. It's great that he Managed, right? It was very good. Okay, but the problem is that not everyone can, and how do people, you know, those who are seeing the opposite today, which sometimes goes unnoticed, right, these crazy people, these madmen as they are labeled out there, in a very pejorative way, right? Very pejorative, right? So, how do we recognize when these people need help and, most importantly, how do we do it, right? It's very obvious, and the situation. Then you'll say: "Oh, but you're a doctor, it's simple." But it's not, a child realizes

that something is wrong." Yes. You're walking down the street with a child and someone has a psychotic episode, starts talking to themselves, starts gesturing wildly, starts yelling, starts acting strangely. The child even looks at them— it's impressive that this has already happened with nephews—and is kind of like, "What's going on here, auntie?" Because it's noticeable, and it's not a joke, it's not funny. No, it's not funny, it's sad. It's sad because, for example, what happened in Belo Horizonte, you call the police, but the police will take them to a hospital. The Hospital will refer them

to a psychiatric ward, which will refer them to a CAPS (Psychosocial Care Center). Now, CAPS is the treatment you'll get for the vast majority of psychiatric patients who are outpatients, but not for severe cases of psychosis. It won't be there. And what's stopping Brazil from doing this? I think that unfortunately, we have to—unfortunately, Gerson had to die because everyone kept saying "kill him" and so on. It's the responsibility of the the the the the zoo. Close the zoo, kill the lion, watch. I spoke, I looked and said: "Guys, the first thing that came to mind

was, imagine a guy with a serious illness who, before the anti-asylum law, would have a hospital to go to and then would have support, because in Gerson's case, without any structure, let's suppose everything was working, I'm not saying it works super well, but he would be hospitalized, then, once the diagnosis is confirmed, a therapeutic regimen would be created, which would have to be a non-oral therapeutic regimen, because he wouldn't stop taking it so that when I'm well, I don't need to take it again, right? Because my point is that there's nothing there, right? Exactly. So,

A medication regimen, a depot, as we call it, which is what will be given, since he is very serious here in Brazil, in general, we only have monthly medications. These monthly medications are provided by several places in the SUS (Brazilian public health system), although it is a high cost, it is provided in serious cases. So, it would be possible to organize a place." It was fixed where that medication was given to him. To expect him to take it spontaneously would be naive. So , when we look at it, the fault wasn't with the zoo, or

the person, or Gerson, right? It was the system that didn't diagnose him when he was 7 years old. I think it failed completely. I think it failed when he turned 18; he was like a regular shelter on the street, because inside the shelter he wasn't doing well either. He was more protected, but he wasn't doing well either because every time he left he caused trouble, went to the police, came back to the shelter to the point where he committed petty crimes to get arrested, because he felt safer in jail. So that's it, right? He wasn't

medicated at 10 years old. He wasn't medicated at 17 years old. First, he wasn't diagnosed, He wasn't medicated. Then it was impossible to medicate him correctly. Even if he were medicated correctly, it's not enough to be correctly medicated for an individual who doesn't have a family, who doesn't have structure, where he is... The hospital structure that Geston needed, right? That he needed. Sometimes it's like that, we needed to create, right, even a kind of law, right, to change that. Maybe to be able to, I'm not saying the anti-asylum law had its value, has its value.

Now it has to To account for those who are not within the scope of this law, who are not being assisted by this law. The most important thing we can say about this case, which it reveals, is the therapeutic gaps and inefficiency of psychiatry for serious cases in our country. It blatantly reveals the shortcomings of psychiatry, or the system itself. And within this system , there is psychiatry. Because what good is it? For example, you make a diagnosis, you see that it's a serious case, that it requires comprehensive care. And often, because they lacked family

structure, nothing, they would need assisted living, and there's no Assisted living, right? There isn't. And also a treatment that guarantees they are being medicated, because it's no use me giving you a box of medicine, they might take it all at once and die. Or they might, no, this patient responds to this pill, but they won't take it, they won't, because it's part of the nature of their illness again. That's it, he doesn't know he has this illness, he doesn't know. So I think, it's time for us to stop. What will we do with these patients

who, with the end of the forensic psychiatric hospital, what will we do with these people? They are on the streets risking their lives and also putting others at risk. What will be done? I understand. That's it. That's because, well, other gestures are out there. How many more will be needed, right, to change things? And there's because when it was going to end and the hospitals were going to start closing, it was said what would be done, what alternative to create for people who really need hospitalization or something much more, taking from that episode you had

with Pimentel there, the 20th, they are two sides of the same coin, of the same coin. There's Gerson's side and These people who have schizophrenia, who don't know, right, and everything. And on the other side, there are also those psychopaths , right, who were, you know, sentenced to psychiatric hospitals and everything, and they're out there too, right? Yes, we have a problem. This is a serious problem. And why isn't anyone talking about this? Good question. Why isn't anyone talking about this? Because maybe this doesn't generate profit, it generates citizenship. I understand. This shows how evolved

a society is in how it treats the most vulnerable and not the strongest. This doesn't generate profit, but it generates an absurd lack of responsibility. The way things are, there will be many more Gersons. If there isn't a plan, something has to be done. I understand. So, for those who are, and I think we live in a country today where we only want to know about one side or the other, and we're failing to build citizenship that applies to everyone, because it's not about Gerson, it's about how we behave in the face of cases like

Gerson's, which you can see, go out on the street, there are many chronically schizophrenic people out there, many. It's complicated, isn't it, Bia? And to put the opposite here, to conclude, What message do you leave for those at home, for those who were touched by this article, I think we have to start demanding alternatives so that we are not against the anti-asylum law, but what to do with people who definitely need hospitals, housing, who have a structure, because they don't have the means to take care of themselves. Who takes care of them, right? Because, Gerson

didn't have anyone to take care of him. So it's not even about Leo the Zoo, it's not even about Gerson. You see, it seems to me that the lioness was put on trial to see if she had any anger or stress issues. There was no change. She behaved naturally like an animal facing an invasion of its territory. Nobody had entered there. Nobody. And Gerson again, right? He wasn't aware of what he was doing, because he didn't have a single survival instinct, a single hesitation. So, that's it, folks. We're finishing today's episode, right, talking a little

about this topic that was highly requested by you on social media, in the comments of the other videos. It ends up Taking a little longer for us to bring you a complete episode, with the right news, with all the data. So, that's why it took us a week, but also a day with the team. Uh, if you're also against this, if you Are you in favor or not? Leave your comments below. Let's promote this, shall we? Let's promote a healthy debate , which is difficult to achieve these days. Leave your comments here if you can,

and if you know someone who has been through similar situations, if you've been through similar situations, right? And don't forget to like this video. It's important for this video to reach more people, so that everyone starts to become aware of what's happening, right? These aren't crazy people, these aren't nuts, these are people who need help. And I think the help starts here, right? By sharing it with as many people as possible, so that everyone is aware that this is a serious health problem for everyone, and also a societal security problem, right? We'll be here until

the next People post.