Carl Jung - Face to Face (1959) - Special Edition with Newspaper replies and Jung's Letters

In the late 1950s John Freeman and Hugh Burnett created a popular interview program called face to face in 1959 the production team traveled to Switzerland to interview Carl Jung at his home that interview was broadcast on the BBC on October 22nd of that year the program was met with an immediate public response many articles and letters to the editor were published Mostly positive but some negative and derogatory the face-to-face program which follows this intro has a run time of 38 minutes and 5 seconds after which are some readings of some of the Articles and letters

to the editor as well as some of the letters that Jung wrote in response Jung wrote to Mr Valentin Brook Mr Brook had written to Jung less than one month after the broadcast and included several of the clippings You can also reply to producer Hugh Burnett on Mr Burnett's invitation to jungforth follow-up interview foreign Switzerland Carl Gustav Young born in 1875 with Freud one of the founding fathers of modern psychology still working at 84. he is the most honored living psychiatrist and history will record him as one of the greatest Physicians of all time thank

you foreign how many years have you lived in this lovely house by the lake atzuri it is just about 50 years um do you live here now just with your secretaries and your English housekeeper yes no children or grandchildren with you well those are the doors live here but I have plenty of them in the surroundings do they come to see you Often oh yes how many grandchildren have oh 19 and great-grandchildren I think eight and I suppose one is on the way and do they do you enjoy having them well of course it's nice

to to feel such a living crowd around oneself are they afraid of you do you think I don't I don't think so if you would know my grandchildren they wouldn't think so but I still buy things Even my heart belongs to me that I stole the other day now can I take you back to your own childhood do you remember the occasion when you first felt consciousness of your own individual self that was in my 11th year there I certainly on my way to school I stepped out of a mist it was just as if

I had been in a Mist walking in a mist And I stepped out of it and I knew I am I am what I am and then I thought but what have I been before and then I found that I was that happened in the midst not knowing to differentiate myself from things I was just one thing about among among many things now was that associated with any particular episode in your life or was It just a normal function of adolescence well that's difficult to say as far as I can remember nothing had happened before

that would explain this certain coming to Consciousness you hadn't for instance been quarreling with your parents or no no no what Memories have you of your parents were they strict and old-fashioned in the way they brought you up oh well you know they belonged to the later parts of The Middle Ages and uh my father was passing in the country and and you can imagine they what people wear then you know in the 70s of the past Century they had the convictions in which people have lived since 1800 years how did he try to impress

these Convictions on you did he punish you for instance and he was most tolerant the most understanding which did you get on with more more intimately your father or your mother that's difficult to say in of course one is always more intimate with the mother but when it comes to the personal feeling I Had a better relation to my father who was predictable then with my mother who was to me a very problematic problem problematical something so at any rate fear I was not an element in your relation with your father the not at all

did you accept him as being infallible in his judgments oh no I knew he was very valuable how old were you when you knew that now let me see uh the higher Perhaps 11 or 12 years old it was hanging together with the fact that I was that I knew I was and from then on I saw that my father was different yes so the moment of self-revelation was closely connected with realizing the fallibility of your parents yes now what about I realized that I had fear of my mother but not during the day there

she was quite uh known to me unpredictable but in the Night I had fear of my mother and can you remember why can you remember what that is not the slightest idea why what about your school days now were you happy at school as a school in no I in the beginning I was very happy to have a companions you know because before I had been very lonely we lived in the country my sister was born very much later when He was nine years old and so I was used to be alone but I missed

it I missed company and in school it was wonderful to have company but soon you know in a Country School naturally I I was far ahead and then I began to be bored what sort of religions are bringing did your father give we were Swiss reformed and did he make you attend church regularly well that was quite natural Yes everybody went to to church on Sunday and did you believe in god oh yes do you now believe in God now difficult to answer I know I need I don't need to believe I know when I'm

turning to the next uh staging point in your life what made you decide to become a doctor first place a merely Opportunistic choice I really originally I wanted to be an archaeologist egyptology or something of the sword I hadn't the money the the study was too expensive so I my second law then belonged to Nature particularly zoology and the one I when I began my service I inscribed in the so-called philosophical faculty tool that means Natural Sciences but then I soon Saw that it was my of the car the career that was before me would

make school more solve me good I didn't I never thought I had any chance to get any further because we had no money at all um then I uh I saw that that didn't suit my expectations you know I I didn't want to become a school master uh teaching was not just what I was Looking for and so I remember that my grandfather has been a doctor and and I knew that when I was studying machine I had a chance to study Natural Science and to become a doctor and the doctor can developed you see

he can have a practice he can do he can choose his scientific interests more or less ons I would have more chance than being a school Master also the idea of doing Something useful with human beings appeal to me and did you when you decided to become a doctor have difficulty in getting the training at school and in passing the exams I particularly had the difficulty with certain teachers that didn't believe that I could write a decent thesis I remember one case where the teacher had the accustomed to the happy to Discuss the Papers written

by the the pupils and he took the best first and he went through the whole number of the pupils and I I didn't appear and uh I was better traveled well it is impossible that parties this can be that bad and when he had finished he said there is still one paper left over and that is the one by Jung that would be by far the best paper if It hadn't been copied he has he has just copied this over stolen you have a thief and if I knew where you had have stolen it you

you I will flee you out of school and I I was mad and uh this is the one pieces where I have worked the most because the theme was interesting in contrast distinction you know to all the themes of general not at all interesting to me and uh and then he said You are a liar and if you can prove that you have stolen that thing somewhere then you get out of school now that was a very serious thing to me because what else then you see and I hated that fellow and that was the

the only man I could have killed you know if I had met him once at a dark corner I would have shown himself something of what I could do did you often have violent thoughts about people were young No not exactly only when they got mad well then I beat them up and did you often get mad not so often but then for good you were you were very strong and big I imagine yes I was pretty strong and you know to read in the country with those present voices was a rough kind of iPhone

for for violence I know I was a bit afraid of it so I I rather try to avoid the critical Situations because I didn't trust myself once I was attacked by uh about seven boys and I got mad and I took one and just swag him round with his legs you know and and beat down four of them and then they were they were satisfied and were there any uh consequences from that oh you well I should say yes uh from then on I was although it always suspected that arrivals at the bottom of every

trouble I was not but uh That they were afraid and I was never attacked again well now when the time came that you qualified as a doctor what made you decide to specialize in being an alienist I had finished my studies practically and when I [Music] um didn't know what I really wanted to do I Had a big chance to follow one of my professors he was called to a new position in Munich and he wanted me as his assistant and and but then in that moment I uh studied for my final examination um I

came across the textbook a textbook of to then I thought nothing about it because our professions then wasn't particularly Interesting and I read I only read the introduction to that book where certain things were said about the psychosis as a maladjustment of personality that hit the nail on the head in that moment I saw I must become an alienist my heart was something wildly in that moment and when I told my professor I couldn't follow him I would study Psychiatry he couldn't understand his no My my friends because it also his guide was was nothing

nothing at all but I saw one day one great chance to unite certain uh contrasting things in myself namely beside matching beside Natural Science I always had studied a history of philosophy and such subjects it was just as if suddenly two streams were joining how long was it after you took that Decision that you first came in contact with Freud oh you know that was at the end of my studies and and then it took quite a while until I met for it you see I finished my studies in 1900. and I met Floyd by

I read well I in 1900 I already read history interpretation under the Royal father studies about Hysteria but that was merely literary you know And then in 1907 I became acquainted with him personally will you tell me how that happened did you go to Vienna oh well I had written a book about the psychology of the dementia pre-coccus called schizophrenia then and I sent him that book and thus we have acquainted I when I went to Vienna for a fortnight and and then we had in very uh long and penetrating conversations and that settled it

and this alarm and Penetrating conversation was followed by a personal friendship oh yes soon developed into a personal friendship and what sort of man was Freud well he was a complicated nature you know we I liked him very much and but I soon discovered that when he had thought something then it was settled while I was doubting all along the line and it was impossible to discuss something really a form You know he had no the philosophical education particularly you see I was studying count and I was steeped in it and and that was a

far from fight so from the very beginning there was a discrepancy did you in fact grow apart later partly because of a difference in temperamental approach to experiment and proof and so on well of course there is always a temperamental difference yeah and his approach was Naturally different from mine because his personality was different from mine that led me in into my later investigation of psychological types of definite attitudes some people are doing it in this way and other people are doing it in the other typical way do you consider that Freud's standard of proof

and experimentation was less higher than your own you see that is an evaluation I'm not competent of I am not my own history or my historiographer I uh in with a reference to certain results I think my method has its marriage tell me did Freud himself ever analyze you oh yes I submitted quite a lot of my dreams to him and so did he and he to you oh yes yes yes Um do you remember now at this distance of time what were the significant features of Freud's dreams that United at the time well that

was rather Indiscreet to ask you know I have there is such a thing as a professional secret he's been dead these many years uh I yeah yes but uh these regards last longer than life I prefer a lot to talk about it well may I ask you if there's also industry is it true that You have a very large number of letters which you exchanged with Freud which are still unpublished yes when are they going to be published well uh not during my lifetime you would have no objection to them being published after your life

because they are probably a great historical importance I don't think so then why have you not published them so far Because they were not important to me enough I see no particular importance here in them they are concerned with personal matters well partially but I wouldn't require to to publish well now can we move on to the time when you did eventually a part company with Freud it was partly I think with the publication of your book the psychology of the unconscious is that correct that Is that is what was the real cause for you

oh I mean the the final course because it had a long preparation you know from the beginning I had a reservations I couldn't agree with quite a number of his ideas which ones in particular well chiefly his purely personal approach and his disregard of the historical conditions of man you see we depend largely upon our history Uh we are shaped through education to the influence of the parents which are by no means always personal they were prejudiced or they were influenced by historical ideas or what I call dominance and and that is a most decisive

Factor psychology and we are not of today of yesterday we are of an immense age was it not party your observation your clinical observation of psychotic cases Which led you to differ from Freud on this it was partially my experience with with schizophrenic patients that led me to the idea of certain General historical conditions is there any one case that you can now look back on and feel that perhaps it was the turning point of your thought oh yes I made quite a number of experiences of that sort and I went even to Washington to

Study Negros at the Psychiatric clinic there in order to find out whether they have the same type of Dreams as we have and this experience and others led me then to the hypothesis that there is a impersonal starting in our psyche and uh I can tell you an example we had a patient a patient in the world he was quiet but completely it Associated schizophrenic and he was in the clinic Already about 20 years he had come into the clinic as a matter of factor being a young man a lyrical accurate and there's no particular

education and once I came to the war and and he was obviously excited and called to me took me by the label of my coat and led me to the window uh I said okay now now you must see now look at it look up at the Sun and see how it moves see you must move your hair too like this and then you Will see the the follows of the Sun and you know that's the origin of the Wind and you see how the sun moves As you move your head from one side to

the other now of course I didn't understand it at all I thought there you are he's just crazy and but that case remained in my mind and four years later I came across A paper written by the German historian rich who had dealt with a with the so-called mitrus literature a part of the Great Parisian social papayas and there he produced the part of the so-called meters laser literature namely say there after the second prayer thou will see How the disk of the sun unfolds and you you will see hanging down from it the tube

the origin of the Wind and when you move thy face that face to the richness of the East it will move there and if you move your face to the region of the West it will follow you and instantly I know and you now this is it this is the vision of my patient but how could you be sure that your Patient wasn't unconsciously recalling something that somebody had told you oh no quite out of question because that thing was not known it was in a you know in a magic papayas in Paris in the

uh and it wasn't even published it was only published four years later after I had observed it with my patient and this shoe felt proof that there was a an unconscious which was something more than personal oh well it was not a proof to me but it was a hint Yes now tell me how did you first decide to start your work on the psychological types was that also as a result of some particular clinical experience it was a very personalization namely to do justice to the psychology of Freud also to that of artwork and

to find my own bearings that helped me to understand why if I developed such a theory or why out of developed his theory it is Power principle have you concluded what psychological type you are yourself attention to do that painful question you know and reach the conclusion well you see the type is nothing static it it changes with in the course of life but I most certainly was characterized by thinking I always thought from early childhood and I had a great deal of intuition too And I had a definite difficulty with feeling and my relation

to reality was not particularly brilliant I was often at variance with the reality of things now that gives you all the necessary data for for the diagnosis during the 1930s when you were working a lot with the German patients who did I believe forecast that a second world war was very likely well now looking at the World today do you feel that the third world war is likely ah I have no definite indications in that respect but there are so many indications that one doesn't know what one sees is it trees or is it the

wood is very difficult to say because the the dreams Of people's dreams contain apprehensions you know but it is very difficult to say whether they point to a war because that idea is uppermost in people's mind formally you know it has been much simpler people didn't think of a war and therefore it was rather clear what the dreams meant nowadays no more so we are so full of apprehensions fears That one doesn't know exactly to what it points the one thing is sure a great change of our psychological attitude is imminent that is certain why

because we need more we need more psychology we need more understanding of human nature because the only real danger that exists is man himself he is the great Danger and we are pitifully unaware of it We know nothing of man far too little his title should be studied because we are the origin of all coming evil well does man do you think need to have the concept of sin and evil to live with is this part of our nature well obviously end of a redeemer that is a an inevitable consequence this is not a a

concept which will disappear as we become more rational it's Something I don't believe that man ever will deviate uh from the original pattern of his being there will always be such ideas for instance if you do not directly believe in a personal Redeemer as it was the case with Hitler or the hero Worship in Russia then it is an idea it is a A symbolic idea and you you have written one time in another since sentences which have surprised me a little about death now in particular I remember you said the death is psychologically just

as important as birth and like it it's an integral part of life but surely it can't be like birth if it's an end can it yes if it's an end and there we are not quite certain about this and Because you know there are these peculiar faculties of the psyche that it isn't entirely confined to to space and time you can have dreams or visions of the future you can see here round corners and such things only ignorance these facts you know it's quite evident that they do exist and have existed always now these facts

be show that the psyche in part at least is not dependent upon these confinements and then what Went up psyche is not under that obligation to live in time and space alone and obviously it doesn't then in to that extent the psyche is not supported to those laws and that means a practical uh um continuation of life of a sort of psychical existence Beyond time and space do you yourself believe that death is powered at the end Or do you do you believe well I I can't say you see the work belief is a difficult

thing for me I don't believe I must have a reason uh for for a certain hypothesis either I know a thing and when I know it I don't need to believe it if I I don't allow myself for instance to be believe a thing just for the sake of believing it I I can't believe it but when there are sufficient reasons To for a certain hypothesis I shall accept teacher issues naturally I should say we have to reckon with the possibility of uh so-and-so you know well now you've told us that we should regard death

as being a girl yes and to shrink away from it is it is evade life yes yes what advice would you give to people in their later life to enable them to do this when most of them must in fact believe that death is the end of everything well you see it you have Treated many old people and it's quite interesting to to watch what the unconscious doing with the fact that it is apparently threatened with a complete end it disregarded it life behaves as if it was going on and so I think it is

better for all people to live on to to look forward to the next day as if he had to spend centuries And then he lives properly but when he is afraid when he doesn't look forward he looks back he petrifies he he gets stiff and and he dies before his time but when he is living on looking forward to the Great Adventure that is ahead then he lives and that is about what the unconscious is intending to do of course it's quite obvious that we are All going to die and this is the the sad

finale of everything um but nevertheless there is something in us that doesn't believe it apparently but this is merely a factor a psychological fact for doesn't mean to me that he proves something it is simply so for instance I may not know why we need salt eat salt to because you feel better and so when you Think in a certain way you may feel considerably better and I think if you think along the lines of nature then you think properly and this leads me to the last question that I want to ask you as the

world becomes more technically efficient it seems increasingly necessary for people to behave communally and collectively now do you think it's Possible that the highest development of man may be to submerge his own individuality in a kind of collective consciousness that's hardly possible I think there will be a reaction a reaction will set in against this communal dissociation you know man doesn't stand forever his nullification once there will be a reaction and I see I see it setting in you know When I think of my patients they all seek their own existence and to assure their

existence against that complete atomization into nothingness or into meaninglessness man cannot stand a meaningless life [Music] thank you [Music] Friday October 23rd 1959 from the guardian face to face with a Founding Father by Our television critic the interview with Professor Jung in face to face on the BBC last night was a thing of immense charm but there was disappointingly little about Jung's work whether this was because John Freeman assumed that everyone knew about it or whether on the contrary it was thought that viewers would not understand if it were discussed we may never know but

it was odd to interview so famous a man a founding father of modern Psychology and who spent so little time on asking about the fundamentals of his life work the interview took place in his house at Zurich after a glimpse of the lake and garden it began with conversation about his grandchildren and great-grandchildren his own childhood parents and his school days he became excited and vehement in talking about the school master who had said when Jung had written an excellent Thesis that he must have copied it because it was so good I could have killed

him if I had met him in a dark corner declared Jung when I get mad I get mad for good then came the choice of a career Jung would have been an archaeologist had he had the money but in choosing to be a doctor he found the work he loved on Freud he was not tremendously forthcoming Freud had no philosophic education whereas he himself was steeped In Kant they had submitted their dreams to each other for analysis but he would not talk about Freud's dreams nor was he to be drawn on the letters they exchanged

which will not be published in his lifetime there is an error in this article print towards the end of the interview Jung discussed topics about the psyche space and time the collective unconscious and belief and death There is something in us that refuses to think of death as the end and man cannot stand a meaningless life where among his sayings at the end one felt that it was time for the beginning the interview had passed quickly and easily like an introduction to Jung and just as it got down to the essentials it was over Friday

October 23rd from The Daily Herald TV last night the professor made us Think by Phil dayak the BBC invited us to put on our thinking caps last night at a time when we are normally yawning and reaching for our night caps what a privilege it was to go to a delightful Lakeside home in Switzerland and hear Professor Jung talking about his life and work as a psychologist and expounding his views on the plight of mankind It was another of John Freeman's masterly face-to-face interviews though looking at benevolent old man he soon made it clear that

he was very tough indeed he was sharply reticent about his differences with Freud and flatly refused to give any details of Freud's dreams Jung's work among Germans in the 1930s led him to predict the second world war to Freeman he would make no prophecy about a third world war But there was a great urgency in his reminder the only real danger that exists is man himself we are the origin of all coming evil after this came the brain's trust in its new late night spot and there was a rare sense of continuity when it discussed

one of Jung's remarks men cannot stand a meaningless life Sunday October 25th from the London Observer television Puritan's asses Night by Maurice Richardson Thursday night which used to have as low a viewing IQ as any has suddenly become an intellectuals feast there was enough mental pablum on both channels to make us autodidacts nod from one to the other like burden's ass only partly responsible was the transferred brains trust a Troika now with the qm joining in and making it more of a discussion An improvement I think Bullock blackad and bronowsky all seemed relaxed and at

ease as if they were in the athenium rather than a BBC hospitality room we got some interesting General gas ranging from the meaning of meaninglessness to mathematical Infinity also an exciting line on the coal crisis I hope they will be able to keep up this cerebral standard and not give us too many illustrious cauliflowers I don't Mind an occasional common sensical pipe from Prince beera but I have yet to learn anything at all from Princess Iliana their first question had been suggested by Freeman's tele profile of Jung in face to face they seemed as uncertain

as I was just what the 84 year old Swiss Sage did believe brilliantly photographed he made an impression of marvelous Health some charm and much fuzziness like an old mystical Major General almost the only time he committed himself was when he said the human psyche existed outside space and time and we could see round corners I should much like to think this were so but without evidence must remain one of the ignorant unconvinced Freeman handled him with defied and respect and not one awkward question but they got their wires crossed on the role of Hitler

as Redeemer the Freud situation was skated over Sunday November 1st from The Observer by Maurice Richardson home imitators hypnotism is always good visual value lifeline's demonstration last Tuesday was satisfactorily dramatic the subjects all went through their Paces perfectly showing that morbid total dependence which is the feature of the hypnotic rapport I am sure the hypnotist's tone of absolute confidence and his very quiet Fast patter will have imitators in several thousand family circles one of the star turns the lady who regressed to the age of 11 and the Air Raids of purely with Germans coming down

by Parachute may have sounded a bit histrionic but hypnotic subjects are apt to do that any attempt to hypnotize the mass TV audience must I suppose remain strictly verboted what they might give us though is an experiment to see if there is Anything in the method by which the monks of Mount ethos are alleged to have been winning football pools they hypnotize each other into thinking that it is Sunday morning and they are reading the results if as Jung maintains the unconscious is not subject to the ordinary laws of time and space it might work

tonight ought to be able to test it out for us with a hypnotist a few Studio volunteers And some hurdle races should the hypnotized psyche turn out to be precognitive Mr Butler's proposed gambling shops will witness stormy scenes from Sunday November 1 The Observer letters to the editor Jung on TV sir criticizing Jung's replies in the BBC's TV interview face to face on October 22nd Maurice Richardson observes almost the only time he committed Himself was when he said the human psyche existed outside space and time and we could see round corners in fact he committed

himself on two more accounts certain knowledge Beyond mere belief of the existence of God and conviction that all evil comes from man as to the third assertion already stated those of us who have had dreams and later come upon them in what we arbitrarily call the future know that Jung is right when he affirms that the psyche is not limited by time and space Mr Richardson remains one of the ignorant and unconvinced only because he has not had this particular experience and experience which can be proved by the witness of others Phoebe hesketh Sunday November

8th The Observer letters to the editor Jung on TV sir Ms hesketh says that in his TV Interview and face to face on October 22nd June committed himself on two points certain knowledge Beyond mere belief of the existence of God and conviction that all evil comes from man this is somewhat misleading on both counts to the question do you believe in God Jung replied after a long pause it is difficult to say but I don't need to believe I know but when Jung says that he knows God Exists all he really means is that he

knows that the idea of God exists or in his own terminology the belief in God is a psychic fact immune system every widely held belief is a psychic fact whether or not it corresponds to any objective reality as he explains in answer to job page x i quote if for example a general belief exists that the river Rhine has at one time flowed backwards from its mouth to its Source then this belief would itself be a fact even though such an assertion physically understood would sound utterly incredible beliefs of this kind are psychic facts which

cannot be contested hence need no proof religious statements are of this type unquote in an earlier book psychological types Jung wrote on pages 300 and 301 quote God is a function of the unconscious The Divine effect Springs from one's own inner self unquote if this view is accepted it follows inevitably that all evil comes ultimately for man but in making this assertion Jung was not as Miss hesketh appears to think expressing the Orthodox Christian belief in an all-good God on the contrary he has poured scorn on this View quote to believe that God is the

sumumbonum is impossible for a Reflecting consciousness unquote answer to job page 49. when Christians claim Jung as an ally one is tempted to wonder which of his books they have read Margaret Knight Sunday November 15th The Observer letters to the editor Jung on TV sir when Jung appeared on TV his attitude was one of kindness and Reserve to certain questions he replied with a Courteous ambiguity which recalled Christ when interviewed on the matter of paying tribute to Caesar perhaps he suspected that the motive behind most journalism is less a disinterested Love Of Truth than a

desire to catch a public figure in an embarrassing position as those familiar with his 12 volumes of his published work will know Jung distinguishes between the task of the psychologist and that of the theologian The psychologist studies the idea of God in human minds and the effect of such an idea on human conduct it does not fall to his lot to speculate upon the cause of this idea for the question of the objective reality of these ideas and of the relation between them and other facts in the universe belongs to the province of the philosopher

or the theologian it so happens that some Christian theologians find in Jung's discoveries Facts which confirm them in their belief in the transforming effect of the holy communion service in the sureness of Christ's insights into human behavior and in the value of symbolic thinking nor do they consider these deductions invalidated by the fact that Jung does not worship at their altars Reverend r f dossetter chairman of the Guild of pastoral psychology Miss Phoebe asketh replies sir my letter in no way claimed Jung as A Christian as Mrs Knight's answer implies it only pointed out that

through the midst of non-committal in itself non-Christian he did come clear on three accounts knowledge of God quote as a function of the unconscious the Divine effect Springs from one's own inner self unquote not stated but understood by his readers certainly that all evil comes from man And thirdly that the psyche is Unbound by time and space these convictions while asserting the Limitless power of the unconscious are obviously not confined to Orthodox Christianity Jung's rejections put him right outside it Phoebe asketh third letter to the editor by Bernard Campbell sir In her letter last week

Margaret Knight is guilty of quoting part of an exposition out of context she must read both paragraphs from which she quotes Jung CG answer to job page XI quote this conflict about religious belief is due to the strange supposition that a thing is true only if it presents itself as a physical fact physical is not the only Criterion for truth there are also psychic truths Which can neither be explained nor proved nor contested in any physical way here follows the example about the Rhine flowing backwards religious statements are of this kind they refer without exception

to things which cannot be established as physical facts if they do not do this they would inevitably fall into the category of Natural Sciences unquote Mrs Knight is also guilty of interpreting Jung's remarks by a Fallacious implication that since some psychic facts do not correspond to reality all religious statements are false since the fact of God's existence is a level of reality which is not part of the narrow confines of Natural Science a humanist will never accept this fact except by leaving the false security of a closed system of belief and recognizing the existence of

an awful reality which transcends the material World depth psychology is very suggestive of such a reality Bernard Campbell now begin four letters written by Jung in response to the public response written first to Valentin Brooke and to Hugh Burnett to one Mr M Leonard and a second to Hugh Burnett so in 1959 October what 22nd we have a Fallout within a few days written in response to a letter received By Mr Valentin Brooke and this is original written in English on November 16th so just under a month later dear sir as you have learned from

Mr Richardson's account I am an irritating person note number one on October 22nd the British Broadcasting Corporation broadcast a television interview with Jung conducted by John Freeman in the series face to face In the course of the interview Freeman asked do you believe in God to which Yoon answered after a long pause I don't need to believe I know these words gave rise to considerable argument and Valentin Brooke sent Jung rather derogatory review of the broadcast written by Maurice Richardson in the London Observer from 25th of October 1959 three days after the broadcast as well

as some of the correspondence Published in the same paper about Jung's words Mr Brooke asked you for their exact meaning the interview with Freeman is published in CG young speaking now I got a copy of that this contains a little bit like a header or like a little intro paragraph about Hugh Burnett and the production of that face-to-face document documentary interview um okay so continuing as you have Learned from Mr Richardson's account I am an irritating person I am dealing with doubts and Views which puzzle the modern mind consciously as well as unconsciously I am

treading on corns left and right as a consequence I have to spend a great amount of my time in handing out apologies and explanations for saying things which allude to facts and ideas unknown to the reader moreover the reader is handicapped by His positivistic premise that the truth is simple and can be expressed in one short sentence yet nothing is quite true and even this is not quite true as milta Tuli says a psychologist concerned with the treatment of mental disturbances is constantly reminded of the fallacies in our verbal formulations in spite of all the

difficulties besetting my way I will try to explain my standpoint whatever I perceive from without or within is a representation or image a psychic entity caused as a rightly or wrongly assume by a corresponding real object but I have to admit that my subjective image is only a Grosso modo identical with the object any Portrait Painter will agree with the statement and the physicist will add that what we call colors are really Wavelengths the difference between image and real object shows that the psyche app receiving an object Alters it by adding or excluding certain details

the image therefore is not entirely caused by the object it is also influenced by certain pre-existent psychic conditions which we can correct only partially We cannot remove color perception for instance moreover we know from experience that all acts of a perception are influenced by pre-existing patterns of perceiving objects for instance the premise of causality particularly obvious in pathological cases being exaggerations or distortions of a so-called normal behavior they are presuppositions pertaining to the whole of humanity the history of the human mind offers no End of examples for instance folklore fairy tales religious symbolism Etc to

explain the spontaneous origin of such parallelisms the theory of migration Note 2 is insufficient I call them archetypes an example instinctual forms of mental functioning they are not inherited ideas but mentally expressed instincts forms and not contents they influence our image formation As experience shows archetypes are equipped with a specific energy without which they could not have causal effects thus when we try to form an image of the fact one calls God would depend largely upon innate pre-existent ways of perceiving all the more so as it is a perception from within unaided by the observation

of physical facts which might lend their visible forms to our god image Though there are plenty of cases of the sort God therefore is in the first place a mental image equipped with instinctual numinosity an example an emotional value bestowing the characteristic autonomy of the effect on the image this is my chief statement now people unaccustomed to proper thinking assume that it is a final Statement no scientific statement is final it is a likely formulation of observation and Analysis it goes as far as a scientific statement can go but it does not and cannot say

what God is it only can Define what he is in our mind the mind is neither the world in itself nor does it reproduce its accurate image The fact that we have an image of the world does not mean that there is only an image and no world this is exactly the argument of those who assume that when I speak of the god image I mean that God does not exist as he is only an image our images are as a rule of something and even delusions are images of something as modern psychology has amp

amply shown if for example for instance I imagine an animal which does Not exist in reality as we know it I form the picture of a mythological entity following the age-old activity of our ancestors in imagining fairy beasts and doctor animals I am functioning within the frame of an archetype I am in this case strongly influenced by it the archetype has efficacy but although we can be fairly certain that no such animal exists in physical reality There is nevertheless a real cause which has suggested the creation of the Dragon the dragon image is its expression

the god image is the expression of an underlying experience of something which I cannot attain to by intellectual means an example by scientific cognition unless I commit an unwarrantable transgression when I say that I don't need to believe in God because I know I mean I know of the existence of God Images in general and in particular I know it is a matter of a universal experience and in so far as I am no exception I know that I have such experience also which I call God it is the experience of my will over against

another and very often stronger will crossing my path often with seemingly disastrous results putting the strange ideas into my head And maneuvering my fate sometimes into most undesirable corners or giving it unexpected favorable twists outside my knowledge and my intention the strange Force against or for my conscious Tendencies is well known to me so I say I know him but why should you call this something God I would ask why not It has always been called God an excellent and very suitable name indeed who could say in Earnest that his fate and life have been

the result of his conscious planning alone have we had a complete picture of the world millions of conditions are are in reality beyond our control on innumerable occasions Our Lives could Have taken an entirely different turn individuals who believe they are masters of their fate are as a rule the slaves of Destiny a Hitler or Mussolini could believe they were such masterminds they speak if I know what I want but I am doubtful and hesitant whether the something is of the same opinion or not hoping I have succeeded in elucidating the puzzle sincerely your CG

Young that was written I'm just under a month after the broadcast we now turn to a few days later into early from what was it November 16th to December 5th written to the producer of the documentary Hugh Burnett Dear Mr Burnett so many letters I have received have emphasized my statement about knowing god Knowing about knowing that I have written an answer to a man whose letter was particularly articulate in this respect you will find a copying closed I explained what my opinion is about a knowledge of God I know it is an unconventional way

of thinking and I quite understand if it should suggest that that I am no Christian yet I think of myself as a Christian since I am entirely based upon Christian Concepts I only try to escape their internal contradictions by introducing a more modest modest attitude which takes into consideration the immense darkness of the human mind the Christian idea proves its Vitality by a continuous Evolution just like Buddhism our time certainly demands some new thoughts in this respect as we cannot continue to think in an antique or medieval way when we enter the sphere of religious

experience Thank you very much for the nice photos it's it is good for one's self-education to see some undeniable evidence for the stupidity of facial expression yours sincerely CG human this is to M Leonard written the same day as his response to Mr uh Hugh Burnett which is commended by Jung as a very articulate letter now in response Jung writes dear sir and this is Originally written in English Mr Freeman in his characteristic manner fired the question you allude to at me in a somewhat surprising way so that I was perplexed and had to say

the next thing which came into my mind as soon as the answer had left the edge of my teeth I knew I had said something controversial puzzling or even ambiguous oh yes and I was therefore just waiting for letters like yours Mind you I didn't say there is a God I said I don't need to believe in God I know which does not mean I do know a certain God Zeus Yahweh Allah the trinitarian god Etc but rather I do know that I am obviously confronted with a factor unknown in itself which I call God

and consensus omnium Omnibus creditor Note what translates what is believed always everywhere and by everyone I remember him I evoke him whenever I use his name overcome by anger or by fear whenever I involuntarily say oh God that happens when I meet somebody or something stronger than myself it is an apt name given to all overpowering emotions in my own psychic system Subduing my conscious will and up usurping control over myself this is the name by which I designate all things which cross my willful path violently and recklessly all things which upset my subjective views

plans and intentions and change the course of my life for better or worse in accordance with tradition I call the power of fate in this positive as well as a negative aspect and in as much as its origin is beyond my control God A personal God since my fate means very much myself particularly when it approaches me in the form of a conscience as a Vox day with which I can even Converse and argue and we we do and at the same time we know that we do one is subject as well as object yet

I should consider it an intellectual immorality to indulge in the belief that my view of a God is the universal metaphysical being of the confessions or Philosophies I commit the impertinence neither of a hypostasis nor of an arrogant qualification such as God can only be good only my experience can be good or evil but I know that the superior will is based on upon a foundation which transcends human imagination since I know of my collision with a superior will in my own psychic system I know of God and if I should Venture the Illegitimate hypostasis

of my image I would say of a god Beyond Good and Evil just as much dwelling in myself as everywhere else hoping I have answered your question I remain dear sir yours sincerely CG Yoon now following this in 1960 Carl Jung was invited or requested by Hugh Burnett to have another interview don't know if it was presumably with the face-to-face series as well you was not feeling very Well 1960 June Jung's letter to in response to Mr Burnett reads Dear Mr Burnett your letter and invitation have arrived at a moment when I find it hard

to make up my mind at all I'm tired by the work of a whole year and I and I could not envisage the possibility of further exertions I don't want to say no definitely but I should like to postpone my answer to a time when I have had my due rest my Wish is that you would take up the problem once more in September when I am more sure of my capacity again you're quite understandable proposition to confront me with an interlocutor whom I do not know personally does not simplify the situation as I am

rather frightened of my colleagues on account of so many unfortunate experiences I.E unnecessary misunderstandings and prejudices I will mention only a few of them Archetypes or metaphysical ideas are mystical do not exist I am a philosopher I have a father complex against Freud and so on it is unsatisfactory and fatiguing to deal with people who neither have read my books nor have the slightest notion of the methods I am applying and their justification I cannot deal anymore with people who are unacquainted with the world of problems I am concerned with I avoid as much as

possible interviews with those of my colleagues who are in need of basic information I also avoid people with an antagonistic attitude from the start who only want to know their own ideas but not mine I consider a certain amount of Open-mindedness as indispensable for an interview I can't explain my standpoint but I refuse to fight uphill such Gladiator games are good for so-called scientific congresses but are the worst obstacle for real understanding I have no patience anymore with sheer ignorance if you are sure your man is open-minded fair and willing to weigh my argument Objectively

and capable of doing so I can look forward more easily to such an interview I must ask for your forgiveness for these measures of precaution because of my old because my old age has left me with a sorry remnant of my former Energies I cannot explain and fight at the same time against ignorance and incompetence I have for the sake of my health to ask my partner First have you read a book I have written within the last 30 years and did you understand it if not I shut up I am sick of talking to

people who do not even know the psychological ABC there are so many people who either designate themselves as my pupils or ever that they know my system that I am always a bit scared when I have to meet An unknown person I trust you are aware of this serious question the whole interview depends on it a few years ago [Music] University got an interview out of me to which they sent a professor of psychology who was completely ignorant and to whom one could not talk intelligently I had then been still strong enough to push him

aside and give a free talk About some basic aspects I could not do that anymore that all events I should be much obliged to you if you would give me the chance to see my psychiatric partner before we start so that I can get an idea of the level on which a talk would be possible my apologies for my hesitations and anxieties I remain yours sincerely CG human written June 30th 1960. And approximately one year later June 6th he he had just finished the last writing of his life which was the contribution into it's the

approaching the unconscious which went into the man in his symbols uh late May early June and on June 6 1961 he passed away and so uh we have a nice Legacy of of his writings and letters and and books and it's it's I I heartily recommend anybody To buy his book so like I got like his two volumes of books and cgum speaking and I went in I over the course of like four years I collected his entire Collective works I really recommend people getting into Jung's writings if you made it this far I really

appreciate it and thank you very much for listening foreign