EP 102: How To Scale Your Supplement Business To 10M Over 12 Months With Cody Bramlett

Why do people fail right so I've lost a million dollars I've made a tons of mistakes I've invested in people or traffic people I didn't follow through I've I've screwed up a lot the reason I succeeded is because I haven't stopped [Music] welcome to set figure entrepreneur podcast the number one podcast for you behind the scenes with real online Earners no fake gurus here today we have the wonderful Cody bralett I'm excited to be here with you man um I really don't know [ __ ] about you which is fantastic because that is exciting we

also have the wonderful Tyler Devin here as well um so let's Dive Right In I love it thank you guys for having me I really appreciate it I'm excited to be here to talk shop about anything and everything so I mean uh have so much to Share it's almost endless so I mean where do you want me to start well man um I I did actually read up on you a little bit um from what I understand you start in the fitness space and then now you're more on the side where you help people build

supplements does that make sense or is that accurate yeah exactly so I I back in the day I was really into Dan Kennedy and book laser stuff I love the idea of direct marketing and affiliate marketing World and I just love that content and I loved kettlebells I was literally obsessed with the idea of kettlebells a fitness tool and I trained at a gym and the lady was quite literally a wife of a billionaire because I was in La Jolla San Diego and one day she just closed the shop and left so I reached out

to like 40 members started the gym grew that to almost 300 people over the years and uh realized there was a need from customers from my client from my clients And that was nutrition aspects and ideas the idea behind that supplementation they bring in you know a bottle of protein powder that cost them 90 and it had no protein in it so it kind of irritated me and I went on the journey for trying to build a supplement um product and brand and that led me more into the affiliate World which I had already dabbled

and kind of understood a little little bit about and after I launched my first offer took About a year to get it up and running maybe a little longer and I did my three and a half four million my first year and then from there it's just been gross growth growth growth I think people almost cracked 60 million out of it right now in into 2022. very good congratulations wow that's super cool there's so many entrepreneurs that come from the gym background or like personal trainer or whatever but there is like man there's got to

be dozens of them It's the hustle so as a Gym trainer and owner you have to hustle to convince someone to do something that is completely against their inside you know that whole idea human bodies can serve energy and so going to exercise is the opposite of what your brain wants you to do on a neurological level so you're convincing someone to do something they don't want to do over and over and over and over and over again and pay you as much as much money as you can at the Same time so that hustle

I think develops a lot of uh people who are seeking uh Solutions in the world of marketing and uh sales and trying to reach more people because the gyms you know you hit a cap right we had 300 people I was losing my mind at that point and it was exhausting and uh the paychecks weren't that great um and so I just like how else can I make more money and do less work yeah I Love it very true persistence is key yes what was uh what was the first supplement product you launched where you

did four million that first year it's been the consistently best product still it's really simple it's a white labeled product that anybody can buy from any store on Earth but I somehow sell millions of it a year it's turmeric with bioprene really I was the first one in the direct marketing affiliate space to sell a supplement outside of organifi I launched right before this other company um came by the name of it they launched right right like a month after me and so in the direct marketing world there's ClickBank and buy Goods these big networks

and I was able to get on one of them and just go and because no one had supplements everyone should start driving traffic to me so most people were used to sending their emails to offers to seven dollar Fitness Products yeah and exercise and diet books things like that and so when I came out with a supplement offer it was just like what is this and it just converted you know one and a half two percent every single day to every single affiliate and it was just like printing money my problem was trying to keep

up with inventory and how the heck to get 25 30 000 units of turmeric in the warehouse every month and not run out of stock dude that's a good problem to have Yeah very cool man that's awesome congratulations on your success on that it's been fun it's just grown from there and you know we have long-form offers video sales offers e-commerce offers um and I've taken it from from that aspect to really focus on building a team I just did the math today we have a million dollar payroll right now which is kind of insane

to think about but we built this massive team of people to be Able to build offers turn them out get them get them out to Affiliates and then I've developed a coaching program to help people who want to do this exact same thing do it as well so I'm just constantly trying to continue my evolution of learning and education and helping others I love helping at the gym not going to help business owners um and all while making money and living my my dream life I love it man that's awesome I'm really curious on the

Supplement business so um you know we run we run traffic that's what we do right um so we run traffic on Google Tick Tock Facebook and we have a lot of email lists we've built up so that's that's all we do and we've built some owned and operated lead gen properties and that's been great seeing that side of the ownership as opposed to just in the traffic just because there's so much more flexibility you have get to use the Lifetime value of the customer but obviously that comes with some of the challenges so I'm kind

of really curious man just talk about like some of the challenges you run into having your supplement brand how come because there's a lot of people that try it there's a lot of people that fail right so like what do you think it is that kind of causes that and then maybe dive deeper into the opportunity of owning your own self-looking brand I would love To so this is quite literally the reason why I started the course I've lost a million dollars not in Revenue in profit that should have been mine to take home to

buy another to buy a vacation house like this million dollars less I have less in my life and um I've done I've done all the research and kind of looking into my soul and business of what those mistakes were I think the first one was is I started out with that entrepreneurial mindset of I'm going to Do everything myself and that this business is mine whereas when you you I left the job right I left my sales job I left before I had before my gym because I hated the nine to five I hated being

told to do I hated doing technical reports um I hated I just hate everything about the idea of corporate world um but unfortunately a business is that you have to treat it that way can you make it much better and friendlier and Not not so you know evil like my job was before I own my gym yes but I had that idea that I could just do it all on my own Winged It tried to bootstrap everything tried to invest nothing and take all the money and capital out myself and it literally almost failed after

the second year because I just was not treating it like a business I was treating it like a hobby or like a just a side gig right and that's that's the first thing people Make is mistake they think that every penny that comes in is theirs in reality the owners have blessed right you have to build it up big enough that the the what you're eating last is gigantic oh that's the key behind it so that's that's the first thing I think uh would be it um after that the next thing would be learn to

build a team right so I wish I would have taken more managerial classes in in college I wish I would have understood uh the idea of Org charts which I would understand the idea of of who who you need to bring on your team first I started again tomorrow it would be a salesperson an operations person and then a CFO that'd be the order at higher people in my restarting my business uh the CFO was the last person I pretty much hired which was like when I finally did I was like oh my God why

didn't I ever do this before I've been stressing my life out looking at numbers and not understanding Anything the CFO is just like here you go so yeah um that's kind of two of the first things I would look at if you're starting on your own why and what the question you said there was why do people fail right so I've lost a million dollars I've made tons of mistakes I've invested in people or traffic people I didn't follow through I've I've screwed up a lot the reason I succeeded is because I Haven't stopped so

great example I said earlier turmeric is the thing I've sold the most of and that's been over the course of six seven years there's been years where it's not the most by any means so it started out as a long form sales page with a one three six I evolved that offer to a free plus shipping offer get a free bottle just pay the shipping then I have all that offer into a buy One get two free and then a buy one get three free and then buy one get four free so now I've been

able to work the entire system and funnel out give massively to the customer who's investing very little and be able to wow the Affiliates and traffic sources because I have a high converting offer for people who like supplements so it's an evolution and not giving up and always retooling it you know that buy one get free deal I have Like seven designs like we've gone through so many different variations of that so it's the idea of not stopping not giving up and to continue to tool with what's working remove what's not and to just continue

editing that makes sense man yeah I I was thinking about that a little bit too uh just as far as how you go about managing the traffic I think you know a lot of people have a conceived notion where it's like I need to know how to make the product and I Need to know how to advertise for it but you're shaking your head no I know the same you know similar ideas you obviously there's people out there that would love to sell your product they knew about it right exactly exactly so number one you

do not from when you start out you do not make a custom product unless you have money and you're willing to lose it right you do a white labeled product and there's like three or four manufacturers out There and I'll introduce anybody in my coaching program directly to them um you can find them online as well if you'd like but they uh have probably between 30 and 100 skus each company of products so you pick your product that makes the most sense what matters most is the sales copy the story what convinces someone to know

like and trust you and that first connection that first touch to buy because like our goal Is one and a half percent one and a half percent of people land paid should buy first try if the page doesn't hit that it's garbage we move on or we retool it I should say um if we can get it hired or two or three percent we gotta crush it off um so being able to make sure that that sales copy works is key how do I do that I find great copywriters and pay them twenty twenty five

thousand dollars in commission how do I do at the beginning I lucked out by the skin of my teeth by a really Junior new copywriter for a thousand dollars wrote my sales page and it worked like getting Busters had to do like two headline tests and then it started working oh it was it was generation apparel back then yeah yeah yeah every now and again you get lucky we've had similar uh similar situations where the copper we used out the gate seemed to work but by and large it definitely doesn't happen like that you Know

it takes time I would say I have a coaching client in the program and they went through I think 36 offers this year and one of them did multiple multiple multiple multiple seven figures so they took him 36 offers to find that Russian I mean they did okay outside of that but like it does take time so the question is how do you reduce your risk and your investment and how do you make something work so that when it does make money even if it's not Even if it's not a a unicorn we call them

right and the key the keys is just their systems there's protocols there's things you want to make sure you have there's a correct funnel with the right upsells and down cells uh making sure that's customer oriented and those kinds of things will help make that work but so back to the original question don't need fulfillment right you don't you don't need to do your own way you don't do your fulfillment guys do that Automatically you don't need to run your own payment platform you do click bank or buy Goods or did you store because those

three platforms will take care of the processing and they'll pay out your traffic sources directly so you no longer are a risk as well and the industry doesn't know you and then how do you find traffic so guys like you right you drive traffic you look for great offers if they work you make some kind of partnership deal or you get paid A commission or percentage of rep share or the direction I love working the most is affiliates and so you go to affiliate Summit West affiliate Summit East traffic conversion San Diego all these kinds

of events and you just go to all parties and all you do is like what do you say is you shake hands and kiss babies right make friends with everybody you know to the point where they're like oh it's Tony even if you have no offer right they just they Want they like you and then when you you finally get a chance to get in front of them and follow up with them to be able to do to be able to see if they would run your offer they're that much more likely to work with

you and so at first yeah in the first year you might get 10 people and then it grows and grows and grows I think my network right now like 400 or something like that of people we've worked with in the last year and a half Two years so you don't have to know where the traffic is you don't have to know where the product comes from you don't have to know how to write the sales copy you can find the right person to help you in all that or lead you through that I just gonna

make sure you're working with the right people that makes sense what would you say as far as like if someone's like hey I kind Of like the idea of a supplement business how much Capital should I allocate to building a supplement business what would you kind of tell them definitely so outside of coaching and outside of what you need to live every day so let's let's say you got a day job or you're a trust fund baby and you got your your 10K 5K a month and you're set right you have to worry about that

stuff you'll need if you want to have Successful sales letter twenty to thirty thousand dollars per cup then you'll need to have design and Dev done which will run you between five and ten thousand dollars to build the funnel depending on who you're using if you're getting roll over the calls or not I mean five thousand is what should be but some people pay a lot more yeah so so you're you're looking at 25 to 35 000 skip going the product costs you nothing because white label it's in a Warehouse you're not paying for traffic

right so you got 25 to 35 000 will get you a very high level sales page written by one of the best sales copywriters in the industry and um from there it's just a matter of who can you get that offer in front of to run traffic so let's say you don't have a network in the beginning um how are you going to do that so let's say it's like you're like six months out From affiliate Summit or some sort of affiliate event right you have your offer built up how are you going to find

those Affiliates if you know nothing well the first option is you can run your own ads right I know I have clients who strictly run with their Facebook they don't do any affiliate stuff I'm trying to bend them into try it because their offers will murder it but you could do that right you can run your own ads and get it to go and keeping it Small getting three to five sales a day anybody can kind of figure out that kind of level on Facebook you go any further and you start running into chances of

things imploding your hands how'd it happen to me Cody Brown I can't run ads on Facebook anymore um me and my entire team that's the game so you can go small on Facebook right eighty thousand dollars a month hundred thousand dollars a month in most droppings uh in terms of being the Affiliates how do you do it you get involved in programs so you I have a coaching program right self plug Boom showing my program there's 35 people with uh companies in there some with nothing some with multi-million dollar companies you make friends with them

you get them to promote and help you test the offer right uh you can make partnership deals with people so for example the track the copy guy he writes such great copying does so many good Things you could say hey I need help with this any way I could leverage you more and give you a higher percentage of payout because they're all looking for a few dollar commission per sale maybe you give them 30 of the company boom now you got someone who's more interested invested into helping their juices of things um again joining joining

programs for affiliate stuff uh plug to one of my best friends Amber Spears she is though It's a company called East Fifth Avenue and traffic tribe right you can go in there and meet meet 300 people and and get trapped get traffic from them is it easy no but can you meet them yes it's literally a system she built we're like hey everybody that I've met my life is here make friends with them and do what you wanted me to do that's so much easier than trying to like you know knock on doors shake hands

kiss babies get introductions across the board try Not to be a drunk fool at an event and get yourself embarrassed be embarrassed you know so it's there there's a lot of ways to do it you just have to put yourself out there and um understand how much you're going to be spending to do it so I know we we're going down that throat thread so 25 30 grand for copywriter five or ten for design and Dev what else do you think I mean if you want to do a vsl a video Sales letter you have

similar 10-15 um I wouldn't do that personally do you know the page works unless you are a traffic person so if you own the traffic you know how to do it then you could do the vsl and run it yourself but a video sales letter would be uh gotcha so the copy of these guys are writing it's just strictly the copy are you guys doing long form and selling through that yeah majority majority of them have done in my career probably About 90 of it is long form really interesting or e-commerce hybrids so I do

a short medium page like for the buy one get three free turmeric offer and it's just like turmeric's amazing for you here's other reasons why turmeric's amazing for you here's the deal and so it's very simple simplistic in that in the aspect um don't think that's easy though page has gone through 50 different variations to Make it work right but um but it's not overly complicated and artistic in the format yeah very cool man I love how simple you make it because obviously at the end of the day I think a lot of people like

over complicated things it's in my opinion not the over complication it's the perfection right Design's done right good get it life but I don't like it how do you know what you like's gonna sell um That has a great saying Adrian what does he always say again you are not your customer or something like that yeah I was a 65 year old woman buying a diet pill that is 100 true yeah I always say numbers don't lie so just rely on the numbers you know what's very interesting I remember I met with this uh huge

uh there were eight or nine figure Solar Company probably nine figures um and she she's like hey I'm gonna show you the best converting uh lead generator page for for of all the clients we work with and I won't say who it is but you'll probably guess it literally you go to the page there was a headline and a box and then like a yes or no she's like this is by far the biggest lead generator that we have we pay them hundreds of thousands to Millions a Month and this is their funnel and to

her it completely blew her mind that like homeowners would go through this funnel and then invest 30 50 60 000 in a solar uh installation coming from this funnel but it goes back to what we're talking about you're you are not your customer creditator and Morrison for that exactly it's it's so true data proves everything uh good example is we came up with a gummy product last year or this year Um we call it Beach ready bytes the whole idea is it helps you lose weight it's got some good probiotics in it it's cool product

tastes delicious too um the problem was we colored it and themed it to a much younger audience which we didn't catch on until the diet season kind of ended so it did okay play a million dollars this year and stay in Revenue but we were hoping for like 10 or 20 on this one offer we're gonna rebuild that one this year and we have Multiple variations set up to a much more what we think to be the right target you know I love the other one I thought the colors were perfect it popped great it

had the everything about it sung to me and what I want my company to be but obviously I'm not my customer so we're trying to tell us the difference is that well like it's uh we're going with like darker warmer colors Um the product names changing to morning rituals from Beach ready bites so we're trying to get the idea of something you do on rituals like morning every morning um the copies change ever so slightly we talk a lot less about Beach Bodies and you know having your results for summer time more about like just

living a healthier life and you know losing five pounds kind of thing so it's uh that's a change yeah I think that's a perfect example how you can rejig the same Product and go after a completely different Market yes 100 I mean think about this too like that buy one get three free turmeric offer and by the way people try to copy me and I've not heard of anybody that succeeded I've seen multiple offers like this come up on ClickBank and then disappear so that offer could be done for every niche of Personality there is

you could make a turmeric B1 G3 offer for a religious crowd you could make one For women you could make one for men you could design that page 30 ways and probably if you had access to a good traffic person do really well on each of those you know type of Niche spaces versus just a generic one like we've created that kind of covers all bases so there's a there's a million ways to slice it yeah and and I think people seem to be thinking about that how do you think about that look at Walmart

cattle Walmart look at uh Costco look at These giant companies and go what is this product doing that I'm not how can I get inspired from that mm-hmm I love it yes people get so hung up on their like initial idea of the product that they just can't look past that and once again you're not your customer oh I I thought I had to sell turmeric for my first two years I thought it was my thing I was a turmeric guy I tried I may try making turmeric tea I tried doing different turmeric products nothing

Worked because it's all about the actual marketing and sales process and funnel not about the product products the least important thing on earth I've seen the shittiest products on Earth sell 100 million dollars and I've seen incredibly great stuff not sell 50 000. yeah let's um so let's talk about how do you what kind of structures or deals do you arrange with Affiliates to really like get them interested and run your product Like I imagine what I would do is say I built a product I'd probably you know go to some some list owners that

I know and probably pay them a CPC and just see where it came in at just to get an idea um that's obviously not a risk-free approach because I'd becoming a certain amount of money I might not sell any but at least I get guaranteed traffic and then from there I could kind of reject my funnel and then you know figure out you know what actually is working and What's not um but what would you suggest for people yeah definitely so this is the biggest question I get from my clients who are especially the new

ones starting out we haven't had an off before that's where do I get the traffic from or how do I get this tested and so number one you join groups like mine I test my clients off for small like give them all a spot if it's if they're hiring private coaching I'll give them a limited tests If they're just in the Mastermind they get a couple to see if it works and if not they gotta get back and reach retool it yeah so you join organization groups they help you test right you make friends with

people those groups you say hey will you test a segment of your offered that still help you test so there's there's ways to get free stuff done that way um the less risk adverse ones is of course buying a full drop for agreed Upon price so you said a CP cost per click right yeah CBC so CP CPC cost per click um it's dangerous because if you don't know how much the person's gonna send and you only have a two thousand dollar budget you get 8 000 clicks what do you do spend your offer tanked

you know what if you don't have eight thousand dollars I know plenty of people like that I've been in that spot so what do you do at that point so the key I think would be To find flat rate purchase to buy a list drop hey it's a thousand dollars for a drop you know what it is you understand the average clicks that gets sent you've seen this the stats you can test it that way however a lot of people who have sell lists they just sell sell it for cost per click or for per

drop don't have strong lists so the metrics you're going to get from those are not gonna be the same as you're going to get from a list like mine which is curated and Warmed and taken care of and you know you know massage every single day to Mo to monetize and maximize its profitability so it will not perform the same way you may not see the same thing so it's understanding that another thing too with a product a CPC lists are more dangerous to work with because a person who is sending tons of clicks and

makes more money selling a CPC has clients that like to click but don't like to buy so as an offer owner you basically are Buying into leads versus customers and you put yourself at a higher loss in that perspective or my offer didn't work because you thought it didn't work but you were actually in front of a ton of leads versus a ton of customers so you have to be sure and understand what you're looking at the list how that list did with some similar offers and just kind of get as much data as you

can before you pull it off if you see that list doing things that you're Trying to mimic sure try it right if people are driving traffic on it probably works for them it should work for you but if you're just blindly buying it that's a roll that dice I wouldn't recommend um now how do you get people to pay so there's CPA and rep share right ClickBank is known popular for the Rev share you get like you know 50 front end 60 back in kind of thing and you can of course change that and tool

that for Different Affiliates I prefer CPA both for my list and for paying out my Affiliates because a CPA if I say hey Tyler send emails this as offer converts at one and a half to three percent depending your list I'm gonna pay you 50 bucks um a CPA you'd be like well that seems kind of low I'm like just trust me it'll work you run to it you normally expect here to make three grand you make four boom Now you're happy you want to mail it again if I did a REV share if I

made more money because you had very high customers you would get a higher cut right I wouldn't be able to make as much profit you would be happy either way you didn't know that I made an extra three thousand dollars in the back end and you were more than pleased with the offer so instead I've given away my opportunity to make more profit to be Able to reinvest in my company and hire and grow um also with a CPA concept I like if you are continually improving your offer you don't have to pay out more

so a great example is I love teaching back and flows how to optimize them how to make them best for the customer invest money because I certainly going to bring this up oh yeah and and uh if we've taken the turmeric offer it started out as an 80 let's just say 85 average order value Guess what it's at today three years later of tweaking and poking and twisting 3 20. box I wish I don't know it's a four it's a 49 front-end offer buy one get three for three free started as an 85 average order

value now it's at 138. wow so it's huge do I pay people more than they used to a little bit but not that difference because I want to be able to take that extra 15 bucks 20 bucks and Either use it as a way to put more bottles in the package to keep the conversion rate getting it going even higher thus making the mailer even happier or use that money to reinvest in my company and keep growing it yeah that's awesome so do you on the front end there do you lose or break even on

that with the affiliate Commission so if you are losing it or if you're breaking even you have to know your numbers like a ninja which I know very Few companies do um if that's your plan you have to be number assessed you need to have a CFO or a high level account on your team if you don't do not try and break even you will go upside down way faster than you think um if you're trying to lose money my God you better have a revenue source for getting a couple hundred grand a month outside

of that like a strong email list That you don't need that money for anything else um so we do not we've been caught with our pants down before running to four or five massive lists that were just churning you know quarter million dollars a month each had a loss and that after like multiple months I was realizing it it is in the shorts right we were we're uh had just had to basically cut everybody down we lost half our our Revenue each month but We became profitable as opposed to just hemorrhaging cash so you got

to make sure that if you're break even you know your numbers perfectly if you're losing money there's actual plan and strategy behind that so I recommend everyone to shoot for making a 10 profit on the front oh gotcha cool because that is a challenge to do in this space too right now especially with how high commissions have got had to have gotten to in order To compete so if you can make a 10 profit on the front end that's awesome then where do you make the rest of your money it's completely on the email list

and I have an entire strategy for turning one email list into five and uh using your in-house or using yourself as an affiliate so to make sure you're not confusing your sales team um and that's entirely where your profit cups from so good example is I think last month we brought in a quarter Million dollars in our email email list in terms of profit and our sales on our front end was about 80. profit so it's massively on the email side where our profit comes from so as as these companies start to scale and grow

it's all about building that email list taking care of it helping it grow because you will make amplitudes more money off those customers long term than You will on those front-end things an email list is such a beautiful thing it's almost like an ATM on demand like when you need to make money you literally spend 15 minutes send out an email and immediately start generating commissions and sales it's one of the most magical things out there also from like a business stability point of view like I'm sure you've ran into well you kind of mentioned

like Facebook will ban you Tick Tock will ban You Google will ban you or if they don't ban you there's just issues that arise or you're losing money um the cost to email people is almost non-existent when you think about it like you can have you know a 300 a month account with get response and you can make five thousand dollars in a day do you care about that three hundred dollars no you don't at all if anything it's like a donation Um but it really helps you round out your business and provide stability I

think one thing because we know we come we do everything in the legion world and a lot of people have these ups and down type businesses like roller coaster campaigns Rock and you feel like you're on top of the world but it something always happens maybe you're doing auto insurance and now there's a Geo restriction well that's where your profit was or whatever it is or your Payouts get bumped or you know some Advertiser gets upset and you lose that Advertiser and so now you fuel for making all this money to make nothing but when

you have that underlying email list it's like it's almost like your internal Facebook your internal Google like you have direct distribution to these customers I think it's a gold mine it is and it has to be treated correctly because I have multiple people I've worked with who ha who should have Larger email lists to me that make more money and they're making them five thousand ten thousand dollars a month how do you go about curating your your email list so that they buy from you not once but like ongoing and not only your products but

other products you recommend definitely so let's walk through the beginning so number one you have an appropriate seven to ten day warm-up sequence after someone purchases so this is a very much I love you you're A part of the family I love you you're part of the family here's free stuff here's free ebooks here's free stuff I love you right as much love as possible here the product you're going to get here's all the information about it here's a video of me trying it right just just give as much love as you can after that

and this by the way every day send an email after that they start getting broadcasts now assuming you can you have a big Enough email list which you need about fifteen hundred two thousand people to start making decent revenue on to dedicate time to it let's say you have that two to five thousand percent email list you should be emailing them every single day this is a religion this is a day job this is not a hobby this is not something you should be doing on the side it is it is a a consistent machine

and that's so important so many people I Meet are like well but they'll get upset and opt out okay and so you're gonna email them every day and lose 10 of your people we're gonna email them twice a month and have touched them twice versus 30. which one's gonna make you more money which one's going to support the business more you know what's very Interesting about that we uh we have a lot of discussion about that internally sometimes we have mailers and they'll be like hey like the opt-out rate today was like 0.6 I'm like

what was your click-through rate and they'll be like 14 I'm like who cares if you have that many more people clicking through and that's not common for us we don't normally see those type of ctrs but when you have that much engagement you're gonna have a high up That rate or one percent off that rate but if you're you're clocking a ten to one for every 10 people that click your link to your offer one person opts out in my books you're doing well yeah so you take that list you email them every day so

it doesn't have to be an offer it could be love could be a question ideally you want them to respond back to you like before you do a sale with a coupon on Friday because you want to do a Coupon sale on Wednesday be like hey respond back to me if you want Friday's coupon you don't have to answer a damn email but you just created that dialogue in the in the world of the internet and the ISP is now suddenly like you because they're getting connection great Point email delivery yeah so that helps then

you send out your email for it to give them the the sale howdy from other people's products you just Promote them so this comes into the idea of how you want to run your company what kind of moral value do you have right are you going to send just crypto bro offers that don't work in our crazy or are you going to keep it true to your actual Health brand and or exercise program or you know true program that actually works that you hopefully have making people happy so let's go option one I want to

be as clean as possible I want to be like an e-commerce company I Want to be like a brand so what you do is your main list is there to just email internal offers and love you will send five to seven emails a week you will run a sale every single week for one or two days and that's what that's how you're going to take care of that list over time if you can you'll run more internal offers if you develop more products um but the key is always giving someone a reason to buy buy

your product you Keep that there that's if you are wanting to protect your brain then you make a duplicate list my wife right she has a cookbook boom I'm going to give you a free cookbook my wife has because I want you to eat healthy it's delicious she has a recipe for cheesecake it's going to knock your mother-in-law socks off in the email the next day they get an email from my wife or whoever you want to be right and that purse that list doesn't care about a Brand that list sends to anything about anything

or you could do it again on a third list kind of same kind of concept you could have a health list more for women and you could have a tech list more towards uh yes my Uncle Jimmy yeah and what happens is over time in about a 60-day span eighty percent of customers will self-select one of the lists and it's weird because they all kind of become the same size you think you'd have one list that's massively bigger Nope they all just kind of even out we got one that's the main list is probably 20

bigger than other list for us but the other lit everybody just kind of opt out like who's this Cody guy [ __ ] about him right and they go oh I love Mary I love her cookbook right I love Dr Sterling I love his Chiropractic advice you know so they'll go to those lists um those lists two should also have love you know every single month there should be blog posts and things like that to Happen but the point is that you can separate your list set so that's how you can start sending different types

of offers Now list health and earlier you said 15 open rate that's awesome for click through rate yeah what's a good what's a good open rate for you guys uh it really depends but like um on some of our bigger platforms we're probably consistently 20 to 30 percent and then our click rates are anywhere on average Point five to three percent depending on what we're running so for us we run aggressive segments to do that yeah so in in our health space we used to be 2025 that was the goal you were doing that you

were golden but when that when the Apple stuff changed we got scared and had to start and we saw things we saw a profit drop so we now shoot for 35 open rate nice because we we know we're getting lies well not all of them are also opens so 35 is kind of At the Baseline we're shooting for and then we also judge everything we do by the ecpm earnings per thousand emails sent and this allows us to tell if offer about crypto and offer about weight loss how well they compare based on how many

emails were sent and how much money it makes um so making sure you have a massively High open open rate you're judging by ecpm to determine how how well the buyers are responding Um and then we do a lot of cool strategies on reactivation as well very cool man we actually we do we calculate on ecpm too um and then we we actually broke down uh another internal variable we made because we wanted to distinguish was it the open the subject line that was good that got that many more opens or was it just a

copy and so we built internal metrics around that too but it's always based on you know on average what were Your earnings per thousand emails and then we make decisions off that that's cool that you guys do that as well oh yeah we go crazy I'm gonna pop it open just because I want to see it real quick but we have whenever we test an email for internally or for clients um first test drop just tested an awesome shampoo product for one of my coaching clients right just yesterday so we look at Sony Metrics and

track them all first off we look at the very variable split because we're doing usually a three-way split test a b and c for emails um we monitor the winner we monitor which list it was on the campaign name the the from line the subject line how many were sent opens open rate clicks click through sent click through open conversions ecpm conversion rate um and then revenue and then versus the existing revenue or existing or sorry Average revenue or average ecbm so we're trying to see across the board too can you tweak a subject line

can you tweak the beginning of the copy what do you you know what can you do to try and find that further because if you could increase it by 10 I just made the company a quarter million dollars more this year which is a fat bonus from my staff and a fat bonus for me no actually uh so Dave and I used to run some e-commerce and uh Gabe had this well I Don't know where he got this idea from but the thing literally landed like gangbusters it was basically called that what was it like

broken box or what was it again dented oh yeah dented box for sale oh yeah those are great so we when you were doing your internal stuff always having a reason why is key yes right so we were just just discussing in our in our in our uh uh planning era kpi gold meeting this morning this morning um what do we do for Black Friday last Year's Black Friday was a bust a year before that worked great so I we're gonna try three new offers we're gonna run coupons for them all and we're gonna kind

of rev up the coupons each day so we're gonna get it more and more exciting each day and then on Monday we're gonna roll everything out with even higher food Bots we're kind of just going to be giving people more and more bonuses throughout the time and try and you know excite them and I think the Reasons are going to be you know we have too much product my favorite whenever was uh uh I I put the labels on upside down oh amazing that's so cool you're saying seems so simple but like what people need

to understand that's the difference between you have a twenty thousand dollar and a forty thousand dollar email potentially it is and and the part that's that's hard too is when you're first starting Out and you do this and you're like yeah I made like a 500 bucks or 300 bucks yay right I was in the exact same spot but at scale it starts to make sense so what I think is really important even back to your first question about you know you know what mistakes you make what would you do to make it right is

you build these systems now you stick to them now you write your sop standard operating procedures now and you improve upon them you stay consistent over time because if You get good at making those ideas for sales every single month and you have a process around that you don't stop in three to five years you're gonna have so many sale ideas that it's just shooting fish in a barrel at that point because you know out of the 50 things which one works best and when and then people will be in your shoes mentoring other people

on how to do the same yeah yeah on the topic of sales Tyler do you remember that guy we had on The podcast where he would password protect his website and shut it down for a week or it might have been longer than a week ago the sales come in yeah like the sales come in the only way you can get in is with this special code that I'm going to give you and it literally the numbers man we're insane like insane yeah in the I imagine that we're great you know with a kind of

a personality Product for company especially because like if you had a a really good Niche coaching program that might be awesome I don't I don't like doing that stuff my coaching program I'm actually kind of anti-marketing with my coaching because I really just want to help people who are actually serious not just get anyone to invest in me so it's kind of a change of how I do things but yeah that's yeah that's a lovely idea it was I think it was clothing that they they were doing I Think baby clothing specifically I remember correct

yeah you get happy moms who want stuff yeah almost stopping like supreme Supreme kind of concept yeah man I didn't realize like how genius the baby Market uh clothing Market was until I got like intimately familiar with kids and realized that stuff only lasts like two weeks and then you have to buy it all over again it's like what a phenomenal customer base you Could build amazing dude it's it's a mess man like Rebecca so I'm having a kid in the next month or two and Rebecca's just bought like all the same stuff in different

months and I was like why do we have like three massive Gap boxes like Baby Gap boxes here it's like what is this [ __ ] oh man everybody wanted to be gone before you know it the reason why guys don't have babies on them but on their Own yeah true that's true I would just buy like a few months newer or older and let them grow into it you know that's right it's like our mom did oh God yeah that was a discussion this morning yeah good luck man good luck I want to ask

you uh copywriters I would say one of the biggest assets online right now is creative and copy how do you go about finding proven copywriters or even know who to take a risk on Because if someone's going to say 25 30 grand on a BSL like how can they have a certain level of certainty that you know they're investing with the right person so this is the hardest thing of all um I have a dear friend Stephanie George I he started to copy him and Justin um golf they started a copy coaching program back in

2019. and they have built the idea for direct marketers in the affiliate world uh copywriters up that the costs have Doubled in the last two years because there's um a lot more education a lot more knowledge but also a lot more just grandiose self-ego among new copywriters who have improved themselves like the people who lead the programs so you get a little you get in front of a lot of people who think they can do great or have written a sales letter for someone with a company like mine that can make crappy sales letter make

a million dollars and think they're good yeah when They're not so it's it's really tough and so in our coaching program there's one copywriter who has a program and and this gentleman um he basically wrote in the financial space they moved to the to the health space he's moving more to the beauty space now in terms of what exaggera uh he may have worked for a Gore at one point okay I just know it was an army of like amazing copyrights March them over a room 20 of them at a Time and have them just

go and after two months there'll be four of them left yeah and then and then whoever would beat the last person's copy on the same product would then start collecting commission so it was very much Doggy Dog there I had a lot of friends in India Gore Community um before they imploded trying to sell uh Bitcoin stock advice that also lowers your diabetes amazing Um basically though these copywriter he basically made an entire program where he mentors younger copywriters but actually really aggressive copy Chief stem he's got about 10 of them in his group and

so if you come in with a lower budget then his cost of 25k he pairs you with the right person but you're getting copy that is almost equivalent to what he would do um and uh there's very few people doing that and so when you work with a Copywriter you have to make sure that they are business oriented they're not a Bohemian artist because a lot of them are I'd say 80 of not there are in that Bohemian kind of free spirit and I've made 10 sales Pages I'm going to live in Costa Rica I

don't care leave me alone right yeah um and you want someone who's going to be there to be able to make new headlines make adjustments make make changes and you want someone also who is Knowledgeable and potentially can introduce you to a few people for tests right you want to have that kind of partnership so it takes time to get there referrals is the biggest and most important way to do that joining programs where there's people who are proven um but even this guy that writes stuff for me he writes studs sometimes and there's like

it didn't work at that point we're like okay is the whole page Gone is it the headline that needs to change and you have to start dissecting it to understand what it is to fix it to get start working mm-hmm yeah it's tough we've we've hired a few like lower level copywriters and they're okay but like to find that those top tier ones man that you really have to sort through some [ __ ] you do you do and then and the lower ones aren't bad either you can um put them in a coaching program

and help them become better Better writers higher up hire the good guy to be their copy chief well there's things you can do as well um but it's tough so I would personally be looking to partner with one if you're an operations person an ads person and you're like I hate this you find someone who's written tons of sales pages and be like hey I want you to be a 35 partner in our profits and you'll get this commission as well um you're just going to be the Copywriter for us and you come up with

an agreement in that Advance because that that's how you tell you build long-term relationships that's how you contest something enough to get it to work the other thing I think you're bringing up in a roundabout way is like like the biggest thing I've noticed I've made more money The more I've understood about myself as an entrepreneur what I'm good at and what I'm not and I think the Sooner you can figure your [ __ ] out and yourself out the better off everyone will be and so like what you said right there if you know

you're an operations guy I'm certainly not an operations person I know that and every time I surround myself operations everyone makes more money and so I think the other thing that's really cool about your program if you as you've been talking about this um you're really teaching people to Become a CEO in a lot of respects like how to build a proper business as opposed to like for lack of a better term a mom and pop shop where you're kind of doing everything and your kids are like running dishes in the kitchen you know what

I mean like really bring on the right people it does take an investment but like long term this is how your business should end up and you're gonna get there a hell of a lot quicker than if you're trying to do Everything yourself because just like to run you know ads at Gabe's level Gabe how long have you been doing that for I don't know man I've been saying 15 years forever 12 maybe well over a decade of like repetitive 12-hour days not every day but a lot of long days you're not going to compete

with Gabe he's going to blow your socks off uh and you need to understand that but if you can really build a business and talk you know go about what Cody's talking about You can actually build something that can essentially ideally grow without you having to be there a true business as opposed to like a self-employment opportunity it's true um in the coaching program we have we do a weekly coaching so three three video lessons a month and then one q a right so one of them is from my CEO my life I have invested

hundreds thousand dollars in coaching her with high-end coaches to become a better coo Her first talk in her entire program is the first video in in The Mastermind you can watch are you a Visionary or an integrator and how to find the uh how I find the office person that is that is key because I am a Visionary right I try to be an operator and I operate myself into a spiral or into an obsessive Corner that gets me nowhere my CFO had to basically fire me from anything kind of money recently because I was

like obsessing Over technicalities that meant nothing at the end of the year just making her spend hours a month just chasing things that are pointless so if you're a Visionary you have to be that you have to figure out how to bootstrap get the company going do the any kind of shaking hands get some baby salesman approach you can and once you have funding you find that operations person you find that sales person you find that Financial person and have them help Build teams and you continue to push the vision of the company forward and

you'll succeed you know you're the the Hands-On person find the Visionary find someone who can take your idea and tenfold it if you get that marriage right man watch out exactly and the key to it'll everybody's like well yeah but you're already successful but if I had this thought process when I started I wouldn't have gone through that almost Business failure at year two and at year four I wouldn't be a million dollars less Rich I'd be two or three million dollars mortgage yeah yeah and so that that is the crucial thought process behind being

prepared your growth could have been faster as well yeah just I look back now in the first eight months of my operation I was like I didn't know I was having to do it I'm like how am I even getting traffic like Why is this happening why did this person email me like I just none of it made sense to me it's completely terribly right what's happening yeah another thing uh I want to bring up because it's a lesson I've learned and it's kind of uh it goes in with what you're talking about so I've

I'm a fan of joining masterminds when I want to learn about something new um earlier this year I spent uh 50 Grand I gained one in commercial real estate Um and that was 50 Grand up front with no guarantees of anything that was going to happen right with that said it kind of LED on to a bigger opportunity that literally makes that 50 Grand a no-brainer I don't even necessarily care about the content of the course like obviously this person had content it's phenomenal content and I'm on video 3 of 40. and I'm cool with

that and I'll probably never watch video four but just by the Opportunity I got by meeting the other people in there and the opportunities that have spun off that has been more than well worth it so just getting access is so important actually I saw Alex from Ozzy uh is that you guys both I don't gave you are you've heard of Oxford Mosey yeah so he had this video where he talked about he's like now I give money away so I can sit in the room with very high net worth with people because like There's

people you can't pay them for their time it's just not going to happen the only way you're going to get time with them is if you're putting more money towards something they care about and that's a level you know people should aspire to get to obviously because then you're doing good things for the world and that's awesome but just access is so important like one relationship alone can completely transform the trajectory of your Business or you know shave off five years of growing pains and growing lessons access and networking like it's just it's worth it

on every angle it's one of the biggest things that helped me personally it sounds like it's done the same for you oh yeah I think back to all the masterminds I was in it didn't it didn't get a resolution from each of them but it led me to the next step and prepared for the next thing I was doing Um you know I kind of crap on just one Mastermind I was in because it didn't help me in one aspect but it literally just opened the door for this affiliate world for me to see it

and be like oh that's where I'm going right and so that that um it's very true I will say one important thing to that caveat is that when you are a part of a program and you're learning something to try and do that thing do it Yeah I didn't like working with people who don't do yeah yeah I agree so make sure that that's something you're you're actually following through with right so Tyler you said it led you to an opportunity that changed that's fine right you you now know that you're going this direction up

this direction cool but you can't sit in the group every day or every every month and not take action like there's uh Wolverine chasing you and a fire in your basement And you and you know the house gonna burn down in in four hours you have to keep pushing forward aggressively to get there otherwise you are wasting your time and not not achieving what you what you need to do as well as the person getting paid for like at the end of the day like I don't have a course but I know Gabe has a

course you have a course I'm sure you love working with people that actually execute love it I love it the gentleman that loves to execute Can't afford the coaching program he's kind of gotten some tight funding he executes he's not living the program not letting him leave right because when you execute you you get that you get the help you get the benefit or yeah I give way more opportunity to the people that actually try in my group like and I'm not saying I don't give other people the channel chance of opportunity but it's just

like if I can see you're hustling on stuff like I'll bend over backwards For you to get you to that next step because I want you to win that's the whole point why we're freaking doing this you know like everyone in my group paid the same amount but like I want you to win because you're showing that initiative so exactly it's it's crucial I would imagine too is there's probably like a sense of like selfish fulfillment from your end being like man I just helped This guy like you know make ten thousand dollars this month

where before he was working at you know some job he hated for sure I completely transformed not only feels good I mean I've always loved teaching the gym right I used to love teaching kettlebells because it's a completely different exercise movement and when you get it just this light in people's eyes for how easy it is and how fun it is Like that was amazing and then hearing people lose like 30 40 pounds you're like sweet yeah so now I'm doing that with people on the financial side and it's it's exciting too I absolutely absolutely

love it when people see see success when they actually push forward with it yeah I don't I don't know if this is true but I heard um somewhere where this person was interviewing a billionaire and it's Like you know how do you become wildly successful it's like well help everyone else get what they want you heard a shine Theory no shine Theory yeah I Google it there's a little blurb about it but uh um basically it's that every you have to help everyone else shine and they help you this is the same concept of it

is no we all help the tide rise and we all rise with it right constantly so you have to be in doing that and this is not A you versus me industry the uh the affiliate world the direct marketing world is completely everyone consider just simply help each other there's always a way to partner um and if there's not there will be eventually I have a call next week with someone who I've talked with twice a year every year for five years we've never found a way to work together but I know we're going to

do it and we keep getting these calls and one day we're Gonna be like there it is yeah so just just keep pushing forward with that but you have to help people shine and they have to help you shine and you're all going to shine brighter because of that I like that man Sean Perry yeah I agree I love that thank you for sharing that yeah I feel like we should end on that note yeah I feel like that was a good that was a good ending awesome guys Um well thanks for everyone listening today

for everyone watching please do not forget to subscribe to our YouTube our Spotify and our Stitcher and give us some five star reviews if you're feeling up to it or don't it's up to you we're easy yeah yeah if they want to get a hold of me you can find me I have two websites codybrandlet.com it's a junkie website I'm sorry but you can click through or supplement millionaire.com and there's a 30 minute video on there explain the entire course as well as you can download my Gantt chart and checklist which is all the things

you need to do to launch a brand so you can just get free content and go if you want or you can join and we have digital masterminds we've got the full Mastermind private coaching whatever it is you need I want to help you succeed so just reach out we'll plug it below in the YouTube uh description Um sorry if you're listening it will not be in the description or maybe it will I'm not sure I don't know can you I'm not sure I don't do it anyway this isn't my main business we just do

this for fun well thanks guys we'll see you on the next one thank you guys [Music]