The BoF Podcast | How Zac Posen is Reenergising Gap Inc.

Zach Posen how are you doing well it is such an exciting moment to be here with you in San Francisco in a very unexpected place um probably three or four years ago maybe it was 5 years ago the last time we sat down I never would have predicted that we'd find ourselves here and there's a whole backstory to that which we'll get into but today as part of this series of special interviews We're doing with our BF 500 cover star you know we're tracking the careers um of all these incredible people at very pivotal moments

and the last seven months for you here has most certainly been a pivotal moment um you know starting in the fashion industry at such a young age thrust into the media Spotlight building your own business pulling it back from the brink closing it down just before Co and now you're here and you know There's there's so much to discuss I wanted to start with the way you think about success as someone who was thrust into this industry at a very young age and had a lot of attention on you a lot of expectations but has

now gone through some ups and downs yeah of course when you think about success now yeah having this experience behind you what does success look like for you Now how do you define success great question well I'm honored to be here and to be part of this Collective and at this incredible moment I'm so happy um that you're actually here to capture this it's really it's really cool and what a great question about what is success I think that through my experiences ups and downs great change uh professionally cre Creatively personally globally uh over the

last 25 30 years uh I've watched a lot of change and definitely because I was thrust so young and also put myself there and and put myself forward success for me is really about being able to be creative that's success is about human connection and about true happiness and what is true happiness one is never Probably truly always happy but I have the ability every day to work with Incredible people to inspire them success for me is about being able to inspire a larger public to be able to work within my own creativity and to

use that and what I represent to help a large larger public be in touch with their own creativity because to me creativity is as essential as sleeping and eating and everything else wonderful in Life so that's real true success for me in the fashion industry like this idea of what is success you know could be when I started you know this uh you know great anxiety about how a collection was reviewed from you know points of view of reviewers or writers that I had great respect for uh and then I watched through my career a

whole digital Evolution or revolution that changed that and who those voices were in players there Obviously success gets driven by um you know how well a collection did seasonally or for me you know it was always about success was you know the completion of like a piece or just working on a construction of a piece obsessively uh in it in a more maybe profound but also simple form but being able to create for me uh and having that uh honor uh is truly success right so you went back to the very beginning before This the

spotlight and the yeah accolades and the attention and the celebrities and the big shows and you and I discussed this in our last podcast um and for those of you listening or watching you can go listen to that podcast because there's a whole history people seem to like that I I think I you know I listened to it a while ago but I still get feedback from well it's a kind of Timeless conversation but you know as I said at The start like when we finished that conversation I never imagined we' be here you know

so like that's what's amazing about life yeah like life career when my company was closed and my trademark was sold and I found myself in Co and lockdown you know I didn't know if I wanted to go back into fashion uh I mean I really had to have a step back I also felt like I got perspective so I took a step back And I also got perspective on the industry right and I I kind of started to see like what felt priority and I also felt like I started to see more global perspective yeah

in an interesting way it was like oh you're not as in it it's not in the red carpet game cuz like nobody's there's no red carpets and that's not interesting uh I wasn't in a media Project Runway game I wasn't in uh the department store Land game I mean it was like kind of it's Like oh like really what matters to me and it was definitely at that moment less and I figured out different ways to try to support myself filming um videos using my social media platform um uh to do collab sponsorship I mean

I had to figure it out uh and at that point I agreed to take on my first commission uh within uh my company closing I were the people that bought uh my trademark and IP I was allowed to make one of a kind pieces okay and uh I accepted it was Like probably a year and a half out but I knew it was there and yeah I kind of was like focusing on my on getting in in as good shape as I could be and strong as like building a strong core and Foundation to then

build on then around August 2020 um I knew that New York Fashion Week was coming up and so for me it's like my clock right that and it's like so ingrained in me more than half of my life like the clock starts to Go and you know although we were still in lock down although it had been opened up I had come back into the City and I felt the energy of the city and I had this profound feeling from when I started my brand which really was a decision that me and my family had

to make uh right in the aftermath of 9/11 and I had a very similar feeling and I thought my city needs me and I took it upon myself and figured out that I wanted to dra within New York City just for like the sake of it the sake of of creation and just showing creative process uh nothing too calculated it was actually like really pure in its formation and I said okay I'm going to do it in Central Park I'm going to like drape in Central Park and then quickly learned you can't just like set

up and drape in Central Park in the middle of a pandemic in the middle of a pandemic uh and so was building these ideas and Shapes but I was back on a mannequin I was back on a form how did that feel how did it great uh warmup there was warmup time uh it it's getting my hands um Nimble and kind of new strength in hands I think that because I had physical core strength um I actually had different kind of strengths in manipulating and moving material because it is like a dance M with a

form I mean then there's the flat patterning and the perfecting there on the more technical side but Just expressing and sculpting in in in space uh it felt exciting so I wanted to take it further and I got in contact with the parks department and I'm pretty sure they let their first uh they they gave me you know the rights to film in Central Park and I think it was like the first granted filming rights probably you know in Central Park during the pandemic and I impromptu was fashion week and I kind of created these

it was around the pond and it was this you know Kind of speed drap being where I created these just kind of different characters kind of mythological kind of angelic as kind of a love letter to New York and that was like in and out uh and then I think Co picked up and like locked down kind of came down I spent some time uh here in California and uh kind of another recalibration came to uh Los Angeles in Malibu and kind of assessing whether Another Love of mine And another form of Storytelling and entertainment

and film making and and and storytelling was going to really be where I was focused it the entertaining Community for me actually has always been an easier your uh business community and creative Community to interact with than fashion yeah why is that I don't know it just it is what it it is what it is and always I think partially because as a young adult um I first went out to Los Angeles For uh my first trunk show in Oscar weekend in 200 two and it was kind of my first time as a young professional

young young adult kid uh was able to be living in a city not as a student in London at St Mart not in my hometown of New York you know that was kind of a city and a community that I could form my own identity in I think probably uh my love of theatricality Human character uh just my love of film it just works I love the American I love the idea of the magic of dreaming and that's such a big foundational part of what Hollywood is right it's this like self-created idea of self-creation and

that's really cool and powerful and probably one of uh America's greatest Global contributions uh I mean changed the world right we it it uh you know taught You know where we're going to quote Andre we here good well I don't know it's Sunset you know a new way to dream right I mean it really changed that and I mean that leads to other really important cultural figures Warhol I mean is totally you know deep into the Hollywood system and you know iconography and that blur to Art and and commerciality and and human creation and interpretation

and but despite all of this kind of personal affiliation you Had with this IND industry I guess at some point you resolved that actually you wanted to go back to Fashion I was contemplating what it would look like to create a studio within a studio that's really what I was I was playing with right was there a place to create a new independent studio uh to have room for kind of lower budget films with newer talent and directors because I felt like there was a void right we were still living in That industry and kind

of the mega hits and I have so many friends there are emerging filmmakers and and uh merging artists and actors that it just like where is that and where's that content to create during this moment when there is space to do it you know there I was and and kind of the world had opened up uh I had found uh the love of my life and that was like incredible bizarre Epiphany that happened and uh you know we it was like a beginning of of a Beautiful uh of of of a beautiful life we were

going to be building together and uh he was at a really incred Harrison was in an incredible moment in his life and career uh at the time he was at the New York City Ballet and I would say that uh the New York City Ballet kind of became my second home I I got Harrison and was so supportive to get him back on stage and kind of re-enter after like a two-year basically Hiatus uh for him and seeing the Discipline that that takes of training uh it's pretty unprecedented uh and especially within New York City

valet and so I learned that so I lived in that in the in in what I call the State Theater for a good two years and and and watched that and and definitely learned a lot about movement and form and simultaneously started taking slowly one-of aind commissions I started working with one co-collaborator as a Draper and then Started how to figure out how to make these pieces I didn't have a place to work and so I kindly asked my parents and my father if I could work in his Studio where I grew up uh in

SoHo if I could work when there so he can work within my working space he wasn't living there since Co and he allowed me to do that but it's also where I started my company I mean when I started my company it was in my parents living room and so I had this whole full circle moment Where all of a sudden I'm like alone in a space where I started I mean it's really it was like this is where I'd be as a teenager on weekends like cutting clothing and here I am I you know

had I just turned 48 and I'm like I'm like full circle like back home back with like the glue gun that my dad let me like play with it like four years old like I'm still here and it felt protected and it felt like save space MH and it became this Kind of creative for the next two years this very Sacred Space and you know selectively uh to support myself the projects kind of kept coming and I was able to create really exciting pieces some out there in the world that we've seen and some that

uh you know are for private clients and they remain that and and that's a really beautiful relationship as as a designer who does one-of A- kind pieces to have that uh to fulfill somebody's fantasy when they're Making a piece but it also was very freeing creatively it wasn't designing into uh a merch plan it wasn't uh confin it was like if you're given the opportunity to really Express a a a customer's inner desires and Fantasies out that's a cool a cool medium to be able to play in and then got commissions from the outside world

I did this dress for Drake for his tour that was really interesting and like out of out of left field like Drake Drake wants a version Of the CLA D's lightup dress and we're just not getting it can you do that and it has to fly and he has to sing to it uh uh or taking you know getting asked to attend the mechala and I I had a piece in the exhibition which was a huge honor and then taking uh Debbie Harry as my date and then thinking kind of about what she might mean

about American fashion right now but in a new visioned a new envisioned way um yeah I mean it was I was pretty busy at this point and But I was busy with time so at what point were you beginning to think okay I'm ready for I'm I'm ready to move out of this kind of experimentation creative pure creative phase into like a more structured role I and I imagine the Gap wasn't the first place you were thinking about um so about a year or two into Co I started to kind of explore options other opportunities

within fashion um started having some pretty highlevel Conversations directly with some Brands and it was an Explorer uh it was still co uh so it felt a little unknown it wasn't like people were having Runway shows or even you know it's like luxury although you know we did see some form of like a boom in some places still at question like the foundationals of like fashion weeks or or or physical retail even were at in question uh but it also gave me perspective in looking at luxury and meeting with these Brands uh about My value

system right I mean I was kind of like bringing in value systems about these kind of what if questions and these what if questions were like what if you can do something at scale what if you can work with technology and all of the advances in the digital world that are happening is there a way to do this responsibly to our planet and our home because I mean our greatest designer in the world is Mother Nature like She is it and we live we're like we're guests for a moment there and it's all in relation

uh and I think that putting all those elements together and even what can a brand be Beyond clothing right kind of you know Brands you know today we see how they're interacting becoming either you know bigger storytellers content creators and how it builds itself and defines so this is where like my head was at I don't know If some of the brands that I was meeting with were there yet and you know I put a great deal and and and all out on the table uh you know some of them I thought not for me

few of them I thought this could be really exciting and interesting some of them had people in the positions already so it felt very uncomfortable in terms of conversations but with anything I do I give it my all right so I felt very when I did put work together I felt very Strongly about it and through that experience and exercise when it got serious it kind of made it clear to me like and I and I was like maybe this isn't for me what about it wasn't for you it felt too familiar right it it

it so it was more in the line of like luxury yeah it was luxury highend for sure oh no no it was like the whole yeah the whole thing yeah the whole luxury Couture world and uh it was exciting of course right and like to How to think about how to build that out and where Hospitality sits in there and what is the home world look like and you know I mean very specific but I had never third-party kind of done you know kind of a full body checkup of a brand in that way like

real excavation like going what is the truest DNA of a brand you know does it actually have deeper meaning to it does it really have Beyond these few key moments of cultural significance that uh it also started for Me to be reflective about Legacy of one's work uh we work in in in an industry that uh moves so quickly that to create real cultural moments with pieces or pieces that have meaning are fleeting there's just so much and there's so many wow amazing pieces being created by so many incredible creators now like what are those

moments that capture that become pieces that stay forever and it kind of started to feel a little wasteful in a Way and and unattainable and I also threw my career uh and especially I think within being in media understood this responsibility to inspire and to interact with a larger population than just luxury fashioned talk too and so you were already thinking that about that before the Gap yeah living in in in you know doing costumes living in ballet world and also like kind of you know what the [ __ ] am I Going to do

yeah like how am I going to support myself like for real like whoa like we've we've stretched it out we've gotten here we're piecing this thing together this thing um you know watching uh the love of my life's you know creative career watching him do a retirement I'm like here this inm period and uh a friend called me and said what do you think about Old Navy I not sure like what about Old Navy and what do you think about Gap then when's the last Time you had been into an Old Navy store when you

got that oh probably as a teenager right so you hadn't even been in there for like 20 years or no I hadn't been in Old Navy but I'm I'm not um I'm surprisingly not a crazy fashion snob in the sense like I you know I I'll go I go in a Walmart like I I go high low right I always say like uh you know M&M's to like Meson de chocolot like they're all good they all have their place and time In my life at least right and uh so I thought okay like you know

do you want to meet you know would you be interested in you know meeting uh Richard Dixon this new CEO I thought like sure why not what's there to lose like I who knows and so we set up this meeting uh it was a just like very casual uh kind of have a coffee or tea or a drink uh turned out french fries in a corner table at Bazar it was on my birthday and uh I had also chosen pretty Impromptu to actually celebrate my birthday which I hadn't done probably in like two decades consecutively

after this random just meeting you know he meeting people and uh you know in walked Richard he walked in he had this kind of I'd say a cross between like rock star and this kind of elegant Jewish Kennedy thing happening walked in uh and and a kind of cool regality and eccentricity uh and then he sat down basically not Your typical like business executive different B different kind of business executive walked in and he sat down and we started talking about what he was doing here and brand new at Gap bank and what he was

dreaming and he asked me kind of where I was at in my career and it started to become these questions well these are where my values sit and he's like well these are where my values sit and within 5 minutes I knew that there was something very special it was A kmic moment where there was like a magic connection uh where I saw that I had met my dreamer and is part of what you made you aware of that in such a split-second moment the fact that you'd had this time to step back that you'd

had this time to reflect on things that you'd had this time to kind of reprioritize so you had clarity about what those values are and you were able To articulate them to someone else probably yeah it had a lot of time to have that breath of of a of a moment or a beat I can't say for sure yeah but I would imagine so yeah I I mean I had gone down building a digital Couture house right I mean I'd gone through all different kind of Concepts while it'd be draping we'd be building business plans

you know in in the nft space like it was like here's what's happening uh but then realizing like I'm don't want to learn Personally how to program on K yeah I'm happy to work with K and here at Gap in I'm working with K every day yeah uh with my teams but you know I like went down all these paths I was like this is somebody who's seen the future that I see and so what did he say to you in that meeting Zach that um about what he wanted well to bring to these four

incredible Brands here that you know all of which need a refresh and a reset M well there was two Things he was very aware of you know and and open about where and the world was open to know about where gapping uh had been and its history and uh he needed somebody to bring creative wind into this company and as a force of of of belie beling in the power of creativity and uh working to build that out within each brand uh we were formulating as we were speaking we're saying like what if why Not

like what is this about well the purpose of what we're doing hopefully is to Build a Better World you know we Bridge the gaps to Build a Better World and that's kind of where we came to in this idea and obviously there were foundations if we're going to go into the future we better be you know obviously always customer focused obsessed like no this is not about like the runway this is about like customer focused this is about how we communicate Our storytelling and the extensions of what storytelling can be Beyond just a denim shirt

or a pair of jeans or a dress um so was that fundamentally what was missing this idea that you know the Gap Old Navy Banana Republic Athleta there these all have become like what these Brands needed was you know they were already fixtures in the American Retail Landscape but the the kind of Magic was missing and the magic comes from the storytelling that's infused in kind of these Brands when Richard sat on stage uh last year at voices for example we watched some of those amazing commercials that were made with the khakis and the the

Denim and all the dance and so like in a way you had been talk looking at this like Hollywood opportunity but part of part of what your remate here at the Gap was to bring some of that Storytelling absolutely into this bus but what's clear to Richard and I is that this is you know building a brand is about being part of the cultural conversation and moving at the speed of culture and actually being able to help move culture forward right so that was the goal and it was very clear that you know he was

clear Gap you know was you know a uh we was a beautiful canvas for creativity right and it was a b expression of human character and I grew Up with the iconic uh Gap portraits and and you know swing ads and khaki ads and all of them like they were part of the cultural conversation and throughout my career you know I had had moments where I interacted in the cultural conversation like that was a big driver for me like some people had those New York Fashion weeks for me it was our cultural calendar that I

always you know created and built with my teams and that was interesting as well as Fashion Week Of course but it was like that continual conversation that you can shape and change culture through one's creative work or brand building and you know I thought so I we were looking at the whole portfolio I mean power of shei uh women's empowerment celebrations of form body and health like totally cool I mean you know I had questions like whether it was you know why can't we add men's in there or you know and we're like okay we'll

keep it to women's there uh Banana Republic was like and is to me this incredible opportunity is the Darkhorse of Our Brands it it also uh is a Storyteller and over the past few months we've kind of focused it on the idea of the modern Explorer that's what what is this to redefine what this is and back to its original Roots it's about exploration and how does that tap into uh contemporary uh social media and kind of this desire we have about all traveling The world exploring learning nurturement you know with humor in there as

well um and Old Navy was like this huge boohemoth opportunity I had no idea of the scale of it and it was just like broken down to me right it was it like uh you know this is what it is and we I would like you to take the Helm of this brand creatively it's a big organization it's been through a lot um there's building blocks to do there but what an amazing Opportunity um you know I had no idea I mean the stats are just there and I think it was like unknown and also

unlike maybe some of those opportunities you were looking at in Paris a real challenge a really different context Tex a completely new way of channeling your skills towards solving a different kind of creative problem yeah I mean we were eating french fries and it came very clear to me in this moment I Said and we were forming the job it wasn't like this is the job I it was it was it was a back and forth and and and a really open conversation like what are your goals uh what are your dreams I like I

want to have a family one day and I want to use all of my skill sets and that came to it was like I want to you know I said I don't think actually necessarily even though it's my like secret sauce and draping and forming that it's actually probably the best use Of my skill sets and I have a lot of energy and a lot to give to inspire a larger country of Gap Inc here yeah and that's how that kind of came to be and one week later I flew here for a followup secret

meeting was like through An Elevator Shaft uh in the cloak of Darkness kind of in the cloak of Darkness I think like one person clocked me of course the one person who clocked me like passing through an elevator happened to like work uh was like the Sister of like somebody who's a close friend of mine and also like produced all my fashion shows for a year so like that came back really quick and I met with IO or CEO of Old Navy and I met with Amy who is our head of people who was about

to join as well and had a great meeting with Richard I was like okay this is getting exciting I'm interested I'm intrigued and we started you know uh to kind of formulate what the role that he had in Mind Richard and I were kind of building this role I think like the Mother Goose in me felt that there was a real need and and a a new role to build uh to nurture and work alongside him together uh across all the like a business partner like a business partner I knew it in that moment I

mean as I said it was kmic in that moment I felt it through I I I left those french fries uh heading down uh to my impromptu birthday party on the Lower East Side And all of my community and my friends they knew they just saw it on my face they said something happened they're like there's a sparkle in your eye there's like a pep in your step something exciting is happening um you know I kind of gone over that the hump of uh you know of the rebuild of uh the morning of a closure

of of a family in a company but I was ready to join a larger family and you know I call Gap in a country it's a Large population of creatives that creativity needed to be Unleashed we needed to have I needed to be a creative partner to Richard as he so carefully and creatively looked at this business and meticulously kind of is rebuilding it and I was like I can be a partner to you in this 4 days later after a few zooms with Richard's like I think I need to get you back on the

plane I want to get this moving can you come out here uh it's our board Presentation and the board wants to meet you they have their concerns and we're a public company and that's going to be important in such a big role as uh a creative director of Gap Inc and my creative partner in this journey okay and I got on a plane and I walked they they finished a board session they walked out of the boardroom uh here in San Francisco and they did like a fire round each one of them got like their

time to just shoot Fire round questions about how I saw the history how I saw Tech working with the company each brand uh where I saw opportunity what was the toughest question that you got asked that I'm trying to remember I'm sure it was probably like a AI question uh digital transformation question I can't remember actually what the tough they were all tough but it was on it was you know kind of on point and Just them understanding I think that I'm I wasn't like a mugatu or some crazy idea of some out there designer

that I was going to really roll up my sleev you were grounded enough to come in here and do the hard not a figurehead like it's just you know and I that was a very clear distinction with Richard when I met him I said you know I said I in my career I've had many different hats a lot of times for different licensing partners And different kind of other situations where I had to be a public face or a caricature in a way to some degree was Mickey mous right it was like uh I was

I was a face for Brands and had to do that I said I don't want to just be a figure head here like that's just not interesting to me you know in fact I'd rather actually be more Hands-On in the work in building this and whatever you need from me in that perspective I'm fine to do it's easier For me I'm experienced in that uh but I want to be in the work and really Hands-On holistically with the teams building each brand from overseeing the product first working on the marketing retail experience and extensions as

we build this incredible uh Gap in umbrella uh and what that means what is gap ink me and and so then I came I it all worked out crazy time in my life um About 6 months before that my mom got diagnosed uh with a very intense cancer and so I was living that through the negotiation of this uh final stage of negotiation were even more self-questioning it was like a final test I mean obviously my mom was really sick she was in the hospital and I was you know in rural Pennsylvania doing like negotiation

final calls trying to reach Richard my mom's there like unconscious it was really crazy so it Really really forced a question like do I really I really want this is this really the commitment that you're going to make uh and that this is going to be uh a marathon this is about being a longdistance runner this is you know not a quick Sprint right uh and you know Richard are you going to be patient because this takes time like I've built a brand I've rebuilt the brand I under these have even kind of Greater Opportunities

and also deeper roots that are going to make it harder too and how how can we take each one of these assess our talent inside of each one of these grow the talent inside bring in exciting people just like turn it up with each one and then you know once we have like the strong Foundation where we build from there so when you arrived here what did you find as you started turn like there's so much history in this Brand there's I mean there's so each one yeah each one deep deep but let's start with

The Gap because it's the one I think that's in the Forefront of so many people's minds when they think about thisy is just like the archive of imagery and designs and history here like what did you discover here that you I mean I opened the vertical files and started seeing the original prints of all the iconic Gap ads I mean it was amazing I mean There are rows and the and uh the contact sheets so it's not just the final image there it's like Annie leovit oh it's Annie it's Steven uh Dem marshaler uh her

britz I mean you name it I mean the collective there but also all of these incredible uh icons some friends some unknowns just that have been part of the history of Gap my own personal history of it I mean I grew up I went to school On bleer street across was one of the earliest themed Banana Republic stores right up the block on Sixth Avenue for a long time of the village was Gap the Gap Kids and the original Gap I mean I wore probably got on sale but I definitely wore like you know the

pocket tea like all these elements there realizing yeah I was looking at Gap brand I was like well these staple pieces you know not only are these as Fabulous As Like you know your eggs and milk which is so fabulous I mean these each one of these are are icons in themselves Gap brand itself is the star I mean there's the modernity and an Elegance to the brand that are Timeless and like that's very rare so where did in your diagnosis and having arrived here and looked at everything where do you think Gap lost its

way like how did it lose its relevance in the cultural conversation its relevance as like one Of the High Street brands or um retailers that everyone would go to its relevance um as a business like what what was missing what went wrong well I think that the changing landscape and I don't I think Gap had a formula and it didn't evolve and I think that to build a business uh you know there were choices made with best intention and business intention I imagine as well you know that really made it uh you know purely Kind

of just Merchant and you need to be kind of you know you can't only be Merchant L there has to be a balance between brand Le and Merchant Le and that has to have a healthy balance like they have so that balance was out of whack I think that balance was out of whack I think the retail model had gone stagnant uh I think uh what do you mean by that well I think the there hadn't been an real strong update to the identity I mean when Gap went through Its different reinventions they were game-changing

invention uh inventions that changed the face of retail I mean historically even famously like overnight to surprise the consumer uh and that's really cool that means it was moving culture it hadn't moved culture a long time and then to be very fair for for the living brand because I think each brand is alive like they're they're they're actually living beings and creatures like Shinto about Brands Themselves by the many people there was that the landscape had changed fast fashion had entered fashion uh direct to Consumer had entered fashion the whole landscape had become filled and

competitors came in really strong and took market share uh and they had lost a generation I mean we literally have a jump skip right I mean I I I'm born in 1980 my generation of friends and fans now are getting like reintroduced to the Gap and then it's Like but a lot of my friends have like young adult children now right and and they didn't grow up with it in the same way right uh um and so it's like how do we reintroduce that generation into it now and uh kind of get the Next Generation

part of that excitement and it's like that new generation of consumer which we don't want to lose our existing consumer how do you get that new consumer reinvigorated the existing consumer we're not going to take our Product or their his or hers or them them's project away um but we're going to make them feel cool again they should have a reason to be so talk to me about like say you're sitting down with one of these like young adult children of your friends and you're trying to explain to them what the Gap the new Gap

led by you and Richard stands for like what is this new Gap it is a canvas for creativity it's it's a Self-expression brand and it's a brand that allows you through its classic pieces to have human expression and character that's what those iconic portraits were that's what those ads were those were pure kind of Joy an expression and a celebration of life so when we see Divine walking the M Galla steps in that incredible denim yes structured gown similar to the kinds of gowns that you would have created back in the day but In a

completely Gap materal that is a that is a form of this self-expression that you're talking about absolutely she AB absolutely uh represents everything about this brand um she's an artist she has honed her craft uh and I wanted to celebrate her yeah it was like it was like time to celebrate this incredible artist So Divine was this incredible kind of moment I mean I had been here for a few months so it's really in the inner Workings of of the of looking at Old Navy and our processes of working here I mean it it was

like a real the integration into all the processes here or are nothing to joke about I mean this is a very uh corporate culture but it's also a creative culture and processes here have also been created themselves and there's processes that need to go there's processes that we need to like refine processes we need to like adhere to that are great and probably new Processes you need to put process we're making yeah and it's just like taking it all in at every level I have never worked more intensely or harder in my life I am

so in it on a daily basis with such joy and love and bringing that energy every day to each brand and all my brand heads and creatives is so important to me it's a lot it couldn't be more different than what you did before not just in terms of Market positioning but just in terms of Sheer scale the scale is here the fundamentals are very similar right I know that sounds crazy to think but actually I mean business fundamentals of you know kind of your budget you make something you have your you hopefully make a

profit on it you try to you can make it up through volume you hope you ship it on time and you hope you sell it at full price those are the fundamentals and that's true at the high end and the low end ofet to Absolutely like whatever scale it is there's a margin there's a profit you hope you can sell through the product I I mean that's the system we are we're we're selling a world and dreams but we're also you know selling pieces that are made and designed it's Behemoth it's nonstop uh you know

Richard and I are uh passionate and uh driven and Relentless and take challenges face on daily and celebrate our successes as well At this scale uh you know you can get in the weeds and get very detailed and I care about every detail meticulous and you know I could spend hours on like a window just you know I spend a week on a window if I could but you can't afford to you can't afford to do that so you have to bring in the people you can't be flip-floppy you kind of have to like part

of it is just own you want to make the right decision but maybe sometimes You're not and sometimes the right decision is actually just owning it and sticking to that plan and then supporting the teams so 7 months in the last couple of earnings results have been really you know positive Market's receiving it well stock pric is up but from your perspective leaving the business metrics aside what is the key progress you've made thus far here at the Gap what are the things and and Obviously Old Navy and banana and athl like what are the

things you're most proud of so far that show that you're making progress against this goal to bring these Brands back into cultural relevance well we're in the cultural conversation so let's start there we're where we're in the room right so the so for me business aside creatively uh each brand has its voice and we've defined each Brand's voice and so you have the tone of voice and then You have the brand identity and I was able to for most of the brands work with the teams in refining defining and getting past their corporate and brand

identity voice and that's really important like once Those Old Navy is different from the Gap house totally I'm and I just want to say seven months into it I am literally like I don't even think it's a scratch on the surface I'm really at the foundational foundational beginnings of this I hope that I'm Learning just as a human till like my last day on this planet like that the goal right keep your ears open and be open to learning and being able to teach and and be hopefully I can have that dialogue um but I

feel like each brand has a much clearer uh Direction and and and kind of guard rails of of what works in here what doesn't so Old Navy being our largest brand uh you know second largest Peril brand uh in in North America after Nike after Nike uh mindboggling the stats are are wild mindboggling but that takes to make those stats is one of the most impressive incredible uh leadership teams the most impressive leadership teams I've ever worked with barnon they blow my mind every day like I'm in all of them I took this job I

was like what did you do before I did customer segmentations for a decade at Starbucks here are the Analytics so um you know from there and you know this and then io's experience at Walmart I mean these are really strategic smart business people they're all good people and that's really cool and it is a community and family and all uh the challenges celebrations uh that happen with a family but where I'm at today I feel like we're just at the beginning we're at we're like uh but uh the plane has left the gate we Are

ascending so we're in the sky just Tak off we're in the sky we're like we've come there right we're leaving there and it's like we're here we're like starting there and it and it and then we're out you know we're we're all um working together acclimating to a new force and energy that we bring in uh I'm deeply proud of the work that we've done and the brand purposes on the gap app in level which we'll share with you which are really powerful and it goes down Where each one of them foundationally attaches to a

brand that's the first work I did here first work I was in a boardroom with empty posits with like a whole team of brand presidents and CEOs and our senior leadership of the whole Corporation and I was like what's what do we stand for who are we I was like it was kind of everything you imagine in like slightly esoteric California comic mode right it's like what's going to happen now is it like you know corporate Twister like bonding exercising there but it was really great because I got to learn kind of how everybody starting

to learn how everybody thought and also what was needed in the company like what was missing and then from there it started to go into every brand and first and foremost with Old Navy as the largest in our portfolio uh working on the brand reinvent ion and I came in and I started to hear it and I had to like have this moment where I was like Everybody like Richard I think you should come listen to this like we need to listen to what's happening here because there was a lot of analytics they were very

intense I mean I just say it was this moment like oh my gosh did I make the right choice this is rough it was hard it felt a depressing and sad I was like no no no no we are able to provide something something so special and rare for such a large population this really truly ties into the power of What good clothing and fashion can be that is accessible to everybody and that democratization of style or fashion was like the world's greatest opportunity and then a brand that had such a reverence and humor and

changed the game in the marketing and kind of balance this idea of of uh fantasy and dream to uh iconic pop culture moments surprise moments into its marketing and also was a leader also in changing the face of retail I mean they had shopping carts Originally right it like was that first grab and go was just huge and I said we need to look at this brand through a different lens like it was like we were working with an incredible company called Collins they had done all this research uh and we'd focused that there was

like the Thrifty find you know was like a Thrifty Shopper then there was like the on Trend Seeker that would find it there's like the different elements there and we worked really together with My head of design Sarah Holmes Brad who's our head of merchandising baz our CMO at Old Navy uh and IO and then at moments we'd bring senior leadership and Richard and the rest of the larger team and just from Old Navy and we came up with this this concept of we invite you to come play with style very simple and each word

with specific meaning and then we started to work uh like a sculptor or a uh op you know in an operation to basically take what we have And evolve it I don't think it's a reinvention I don't think it shouldn't be I think that would be a disservice to a brand and its uh beauty of its identity uh and a large business very responsible for every decision made how do you slightly evolve it so that people don't even notice the evolution that's going to happen and we started to work on a new brand identity which

we're still in the process of starting to slightly Evolve a logo how do you modernize everything make it more competitive but also more contemporary approachable I mean every little detail from font our own every brand including Old Navy it's color identity system you know like having a full physical of each brand like you know your body scanning everything here and working with research from the outside world from perspectives from The Gap lifers that Are here that are attached to each one of these iconic American brands to refocus it and make it ready for its next

stage into the future I wanted to conclude with with some advice for you know young people who are listening or watching listening to or watching this interview trying to navigate their creative careers in this industry which as you've noted has irreversibly changed over the last 15 20 years you know what what's your advice to someone who's Looking to find their way in today what's important for them to think about great question I can kind of get emotional about that because I've such deep care and um love for young creators and in the sense of like

what they're entering into this is a Wild theme park called fashion uh in this industry it's changed a lot my advice um my advice for emerging creators entering the fashion world is To know that creativity is a lifelong Pursuit this is a long journey you just can't ever expect to know where that path is going to take you know that this is a full life choice of a commitment it's about being a long-distance Runner you can't foresee the path and where it will take you but every day know that if you are able to work

in this industry to be able to work in a creative field that is Art and Commerce and under understanding that a fabulous amazing magical pendulum that has to be in Balance you're so lucky and so fortunate uh every day and uh as trying and tiing uh and challenging as as this career and business can be um you have an opportunity to make this world a little bit more beautiful and top somebody every day through what is inside you and then put it on to Somebody and that is such a gift whenever it's hard just remind

yourself you know how lucky you are to be able to do that um I would also say for young creators respect business this is a business you can choose to be a pure artist and all respect to that you can find your own path there's no rules about that like you could make one piece a year and if that piece has that value and that's what you need to support to make the Next piece then that's amazing and that's what it's about but if you're going to be in a Marketplace and put your creativity and

work and expression or just point of view maybe it's just like you like the style and attitude of something and that's what your point of view is and that's really valid and important too that it's lasting I mean these pieces you know things don't just disappear or evaporate You're making something and putting it out there that's responsibility um you're not going to be able to control everything you know as much as you'd want to as much as I like to every minute like you have to be bigger picture of it as Hands-On at the same

time and it's just finding that ability to Parlay that if you are going to be the face of your company I tell a lot of emerging talent that like understand where you stand in that I Think that I see young creators often you know overwhelmed or confused about it but understand that in some form or fashion you are living your brand and you are the face of your brand and maybe sometimes the face of your brand is being Incognito Mr margel like you have those choices but in today's world uh where people are so interested

in the Creator behind social media is so uh human brand character driven uh you know there's you have to Be really really clear on how you're going to interact into the world and if you want to get something to a larger scale and it's your own brand under your own name you're going to be on that Journey with it and you know know where your skill sets are and where your comfort level is but most likely you are going to have to be the B of your brand and you have to get uh comfortable with

that I mean in my career in the past that I was able to see behind the scenes You know into places and people that I never would have ever imagined and uh yeah and I feel like I'm at like a next chapter and really just at the beginning of it and I feel that with Richard and I uh you know I really met my man in that sense my businessman in that sense and he is a incredible uh and sensitive uh and strategic leader and a force uh even in the seven months that I've been

here I've Seen uh and with all his career and his experiences I've seen his growth and it's a really beautiful uh a beautiful thing to witness and watch like with pride and joy I mean I feel this way I feel about him watching him on stage give a presentation and and seeing that evolve and he's so amazing at presenting and his leadership in the same way I feel really proud of my design leads my creative leads in my company uh when we complete a store and knowing All the teams that go together with it uh

being able to talk to the people that are doing like the visual display in a store and knowing what that is like every element of that represents a part of us and and it's pretty uh powerful every day and a lot of responsibility a lot of future dreaming to do um yeah it's exhilarating exciting and I'm really excited about the future of Gap in well I am equally excited and grateful for the time we spent together Thanks and um yeah everyone should like watch this space because I think as Zach says this is this is

the beginning of the comeback kid at the comeback brand so congratulations yeah