Mastering John Maxwell’s Laws of Communication

If I could if I could put the people first I can promise you what I'm going to communicate is going to do really well but if I put me first or the content first it's not going to sell like it needs to it's not going to connect like it should well get ready the interview today is going to be incredibly helpful to you we're talking to John Maxwell arguably the number one leadership expert in the World author of over 100 books three of his books sold over a million copies the new one we're talking about

today is the 16 undeniable laws of communication uh Incredible Book apply these laws and make the most of your message before we go to the interview I wanted to say a big thank you to our community if you're watching online drop it in the comment section tell us where you're watching from and thank you so much for sharing all of our social media it makes a world Of difference to invite others to be a part of our community I want to work really really hard to bring you content that helps you grow in your leadership

and inviting others to be a part is a gift to me also I want to tell you you do want to get the leader guide we've got detailed communication additional content at questions to help you go over with your team I promise you it's worth it go to life.church slash leadership podcast life.church slash leadership Podcast and when we drop an episode we will give you the leader guide each time get ready to take notes get ready to grow we're going to go now to a very helpful interview with my good friend John Maxwell well John

welcome back to the Craig Rochelle leadership podcast so glad to be with you my friend so glad man I am uh I am always excited about every minute that we get together but I think I'm a little bit more excited than my normal excited because today we get To talk about your new book the 16 undeniable laws of communication apply them and make the most of your message I just want to say on a personal note like thank you sincerely uh for your years and years of investment in leaders I've been learning from you for

uh gosh probably close to 30 years and thank you for this book this is one of the most important subjects for leaders and so thank you for your investment in US it's my joy it really is you know it's My fourth laws book Craig yep wrote to 21 laws of leadership remember we did a podcast on that yeah that is 17 laws for team or 15 laws personal growth and then 16 laws of communication and uh it'll probably be my last quote laws book because that takes I think it takes a different level but the

the four books I've written on laws have been things that I'm real passionate about that I just feel have Been essential in my life and so hopefully help all of your listeners and and make them better communicators that's that's what we wanted it it will and it is what we do on I'd love to start and then we'll kind of get into um some of the the 16 laws but John I know we've got leaders in all different fields with all different uh span and scope of gifts how important would you say communication is good

communication To be a very effective leader it's the most important skill that you could have if if a person came and said okay I can do I can really get and Master One skill John which one do you want me to master I'd say communication and the reason is because we communicate every day I mean uh Communications isn't just being on stage speaking to thousands of people communication is one-on-one across the table with your spouse or with your Children uh it's talking to a few friends when you're trying to kind of can figure out where

you're going to go next so every day we communicate every day we try to get our ideas across every day we try to persuade people um and every day we learn from people so communication is everything and Warren Buffett said I mean he's known for the financial Guru but Warren said as you know that If you could develop communication skills he called it the most important skill to develop that you can increase your uh worth net worth probably 50 percent so here's the guy that deals with finances but he knows his ability to connect and

communicate those finances to people his team companies that he's investing in he just understands the communication is the key so if you and I can connect well through Communicating with people we're going to do well that's for sure right so if it's the most important skill in leadership and let's say I'm not good at it at all how much trouble am I in how how okay can we learn uh and and then we'll talk about how we learn Yeah well yeah you're in trouble you're just in trouble but the good news is you can learn

communication skills honestly I'm not sure I would ever write a book or teach anything that a person Can't learn gotcha years ago I I kind of crossed that bridge and I said to myself why would I ever put something out there that's truly wonderful that a person can't have it it just doesn't seem fair or right so when I talk about communication a person can learn how to connect and communicate and it's it's like any other skill you have to practice it you have to know how to practice well and and you have to be

able to to develop it but you can and in The book I mean I talk about one of the laws is the law of observation and the law of observation just says good communicators observe great communicators and uh you know Craig I spent I spent a good 20 years of my earlier communication life just watching and listening to Great communicators and uh I I realized that it was not so much what they said but how they did it and so I would I would Watch you know what what made that what made that talk effective

or what a lot of times what why wasn't it effective what you know why did it not fly and I kept looking for the why in in communication I just observed and observed and and I saw that I saw the communicators were very different the good ones the good I mean the different personalities different styles so I very quickly realized it's not a Certain style of speaking certain personality but but the one thing I knew about the great communicators is they all connected when it was done everybody listening said wow you know that that was

for me so you know we just have to understand how to improve ourselves in that area and begin to uh practice begin hey begin to train to get there so I was listening to a communicator a few weeks ago and the content I thought was really really Helpful but I didn't feel a connection with the communicator and it made it it made it more difficult to stay in touch with the content what would you say if we're going to connect what are some of the practical ways that we can improve our connection or maybe even

the intangible qualities of good connection between a communicator and her his audience well I have a law of connection in the book called The communicators know it's All about others so if you were to come into my life Craig it's okay give give me the the one thing I would say get over yourself just get of yourself uh for too many communicators they're they're still concerned about how do I look to the people like me I hope that I hope I go over okay it's impossible for me to truly give myself to you If I'm

concerned about me and and I think this is I think this is the big hurdle for successful communication and the reason to hurdle is because uh people uh communication isn't easy for people you we both know the the the staff on this is a little hard for me to believe but they say that the you know the greatest fear of speaking and you know even greater than death yes I've never quite bought into that one that just seems I mean do you want to speak Or do you want to say yeah right it is intimidating

yes but or or who was it Jerry Seinfeld so that means if you if you go to the funeral you'd rather be in the casket than doing the eulogy but but um but it's it's it's it's it's a scary thing for people speaking it really is communicating and so therefore when something uh makes us nervous and we're fearful of it there's a real tendency to focus on us you know how can I do this hope I do it well did I do it well what Should I do next so I think the hurdle of getting

over myself is a pretty high hurdle I don't think it's an easy one I don't think it's a low one I think it's one that we knocked down a lot trying not getting over it I don't think we're always successful the first time I wasn't it took me a dozen years probably and a lot of speaking before I really was freed up of me so that I could be Completely focused on you but I do know this when you were talking about the person you heard and the content was pretty good but but you had

a hard time getting into it right you're having a hard time getting into it because he he or she I don't know they weren't getting into you and um the first thing that every Communicator has to do is be able to convey to the audience or the person They're speaking to across the table that there's great that they value that purpose the person and they're focused on it and I was in I was in Northern Ohio doing a large conference and there it was one of those speaking conferences and I was at occurrinu when I

was about five minutes out there were a couple other speakers in the green room and one guy asked me he said he said you know John you said you're about to go out on stage What are you thinking about and I said well I'm thinking about the people and he looked at me said you're kidding I said no I'm just thinking about the people and I said well I thought you'd be thinking about what you're going to say I said well I know what I want to say but but I have to focus on the

people the people will determine how well I say it and how I say it and when I say it and why I say it And I think that's a big mess wait for the book when we launched this book a couple of weeks ago we did a webinar and so the producers were you know of course developing like they always do a script and everything and so I sat down with them a couple days before I said now I want to start the webinar in the audience not on the stage I want to start where

the people are I I want I want every Communicator to know It doesn't start when you stand up and speak it starts by sitting in the seat of the person is about to listen to you and begin to put your life where they are what are they thinking what do they need why did they come why is this important for them to hear you've just got to put yourself in their shoes in their seat for you to be able to uh communicate very well to them so that's where we started the webinar and that's where

I started all my communicating all My speaking is to the people and and if I can if I could put the people first I can promise you what I'm going to communicate is going to do really well but if I put me first or the content first it's not going to sell like it needs to it's not going to connect like it should I think that's so powerful and it's funny John it took me maybe years to learn that as a communicator because we are so focused on what do they think of us and a

lot of times when I'm I'm Working with a newer Communicator I'll ask a question like after talking well you know how do you think that connected and they'll say well I liked it or I I enjoy talking for an hour or whatever in a and sometimes I won't even be you know polite about I'd be like I don't care what you like I don't care how you felt about it yeah but the trajectory is toward us and so let's say that I can only imagine someone driving their car they have a presentation coming up at

The office or uh maybe a first speech and they're a little bit nervous let's get really really practical are you saying if we're gonna if we're gonna do a presentation somewhere we actually go sit in the seat in the room what what you know what do we observe about the room let's just talk about all the way down to nitty-gritty how much do you care about the environment and what are you thinking about in order to make a connection with The person sitting on the other side that's a great question well there's a law in

the book called The Law of the thermostat and the law of thermostat just says communicators read the room and change the temperature and it begins with going when I can I don't get to do this all the time but when I can if I'm ahead of where the crowd is or prime you know I do go out of the audience and I sit in the seat Um I I I started that as a pastor every Sunday I I would go and sit in the auditorium for a little bit and think about the needs of the

people and why they would be coming today and and could I uh connect with them where they are and and so it's been a practice for a very very long time it's it's physical for me because if I sit in the if I sit in the seat it really forces me to think about the Other person but if I'm in a car and I'm getting ready to go do a speech I've got to ask myself one simple question what am I doing the speech for I mean am I am I doing the speech because I

need to do a speech am I doing a speech because it's Sunday morning do I mean you know why am I in this game and I'm in the game for one reason that is to add value to people to help them and so therefore if that's the reason I'm in the game I better make sure that's where I am that I am that I am where they are and I think what how many times have I heard of speaker say that was a bad crowd wait a minute that's a tough crowd wow right and I

want to I want to say to them I don't know if there is a tough crap but I I I I I think there are only crowds with great potential I think that uh the one I think it was a now there's Crowds Are more responsive than others of course so but but it's not when it's not about me Then it's not about me in fact this is kind of fun in Nashville there's a huge writing company there the guy that did the writing company uh got a hold of me and said I built my

company off of you uh 20 years ago and now it's I think it's the largest writing Company in Nashville anyway he gave me an ID he said John why don't you put uh write songs to that that are about your books and of course I said well I'm not a songwriter and and although I do write Poetry because to all of my children and grandchildren on their birthday I always said I'm a birthday poem that's about them and so so I do kind of like poetry so long story short I went to Nashville got in

the studio and with with you know real real song writers I have a statement that says when you're the Head of the Class you're in the wrong class well I wasn't at the head of the class in that room right hey I might just say this sometimes when you're at the bottom Of the class you're in the wrong class too as well what the heck am I doing here but they were so good to me and we we were in there for seven hours and we wrote a a song it was so much fun it

was so much fun and uh it just came out on Spotify or whatever wherever you get your music that's called and but the title of it is uh I have to get over yourself or I gotta get over myself got to get over myself and the whole thing and I did it out of this book out of This book and basically I said I gave them what I call my credibility Journey how did I get to get over myself and well you got to find yourself to know yourself got to know yourself to be yourself

once you can be yourself then you won't have to improve yourself and then once you start improving yourself hopefully you'll get to a Tour stage where you can get over yourself but why do I get over myself so I can Give myself away it's good and in fact that's the course of this on this song and this I don't know much it's been out for 10 days but they've said they've got 30 000 hits on it already so I think it's doing okay I don't know I I don't know what I don't even know what

that means I don't even have Spotify shows you what I know but but the point that's the point being um you really can't give yourself to others until it's really no longer about Myself and I think that I think that Focus needs to constantly be before you and I think it takes time to do that but I think the moment that you can can cross that line everybody in the audience really begins to know now that they truly care that you truly care for them and uh and I just think I just think that's absolutely

essential you know people don't care how much you know do they know how much you care yeah yeah we're we're we're leaders of value who Value people in that value to them and that that's the great communication message once you know I care for you Craig honestly you're really ready to listen and and the subject could be varied it doesn't really matter once the once the communicator is the connector then all things begin to All Things begin to go well well I agree a thousand percent if if a communicator they don't have to be polished

they don't have to be powerful if I if I know they're here To try to add value to me that's gonna that's gonna win me every single time and uh I think that's that's so important and I want to ask one more question about that and I'll kind of Trail what you said because I want to try to keep it really practical as your book is incredibly practical and for our listing audience when I go to a place I want to I call it feel the room meaning like I want to walk I want to

know I want to know how the sound carries and So I'm going to choose a different microphone if one is stronger I want to know where I'm going to stand on the stage I want to sit out if I can like you I want to be in the seat and try to feel what it's like to be sitting where they are and really put a lot of time into that and then I want to talk and ask you about one more practical point before we get into some of the technique behind the communication but let's

say someone's about to walk up and they have That Panic moment where your heart rate beats so loud that you almost feel like they can hear it or see it your hands feel weird you're having a hard time getting your breath at that moment you're probably thinking more about you than them I'm guessing how do you talk yourself through that and what do you do to shake that off so you can get into the talk and be you focused well I think we all have those moments I mean even as a veteran Communicator There are

times when um maybe A lot's on the line or or I I remember I was in a a wonderful church in Atlanta and I was I was preaching three times and I walked out just getting ready to speak on the second service Craig and I looked out it seemed to me like a lot of the audience was familiar like they were their first service so I leaned over to the pastor And I asked him I said you know would some of these people you know would they have been in the first service too and oh

he said yeah he said a whole bunch of them they like you so they want to come for the seconds and uh I'm one minute away and I said well that's dude do I need to reach a different message and he said that he said that probably beings that would be good I I literally Was walking walking up in my mind figured out what I was going to speak on I mean I was I was three seconds four seconds completely well and I can remember the the panic and the thrill I I just thought I'm

not even trying to pull this off but if I do pull this off it's going to be an incredible story to tell but I think that that I think we need to see humor in our situation The way I do it more than the other way is to just kind of look at myself and say you know what you may feel a little bit panicked right now but there are very few people in the world that really care and that there are very few people in the world that really really know and there are very

very few people in the world that everybody hear about it so it's just you you have you're living in a very very very small world so John just smile and and and and and get over It I think I think we have a tendency to take what we do too serious I think we have a tendency to even worse than what we do is who we are take it a little bit seriously so so I kind of I because humor is kind of where I am a lot of the things you know I I just

kind of look at this the the the kind of the humorous side and say well this will be interesting you know this hey this could be my last talk you know maybe maybe those maybe this is the Day they stoned me I don't know or throw tomatoes at me once you begin to make things comments like that to myself which they're not going to do any of those things it begins to reduce the situation down to a place where I think it causes a lot less what Panic or nervousness just just because if you can

make fun of the situation you almost always do two things you reduce it and you bring it to its proper sense of light and and being Serious about things does exactly the opposite it makes it way too big way too important and and all of a sudden you just think it's bigger than life and really it's not it's really not I I agree and if you can talk yourself to that it helps a lot and then if you do even what I found is if you say something dumb or make a mistake if you laugh

about it it doesn't cause them to like you less yeah they love you even more so it's not we're not shooting for Perfection we're shooting for connection and people tend to connect with real people not perfect people and so I appreciate what you're saying I stepped in on that just like if I could just jump on just I've told people before I say you know what I'm a little bit nervous about this I yeah and I and and just you know I shouldn't be but I am but I'm glad to see you and you're helping

me already and man I tell you they just lean in they just lean in They're pulling for you and and wanting I think it's very wise a lot of times let the people know exactly how you feel or where you are I think that's how they identify with you you know success is a terrible separator and keeps us from the people and but the moment we become honest and vulnerable and authentic I think it it Narrows that Gap real very very quick it's a bridge for sure it does yeah yeah one of the quotes we

say a lot on the podcast is People may be impressed with your strengths but they connect with you through your weaknesses yeah so being uh being yourself matters John I want to ask I think law number four jumped out to me as being just very very very very important the law of preparation you cannot deliver what you have not developed I'd love to hear about you know we were talking just minutes before the podcast started and you said you came up with 13 new talk Ideas which is blows my mind you could come up with

13 new talk ideas that fast can you talk us through a little bit about from the conception of the idea to the delivery of the message how can we learn to become more skilled in the preparation process well I first of all the first thing I would say about preparation is uh people say John when do you prepare and my answer is always I Prepare all the time so when I'm reading your book and by the way I'm halfway through it on the power of change and let me just say this it's a good I

I read all your books but let me tell you something it's very very good so I'm gonna pull up something here for you so so what I have here is my little I've iPhone and I have quotes out of your book right here you Know you have the quote on habits uh uh how habits are born you know by cue by by craving response reward uh you know a habit allows uh good and bad behavior to happen uh uh into your brain uh helping it with the change and so I got all these habit quotes

and and training quotes training versus try and I I whenever I read something I immediately file it um so I would be through your book if I just read your book But I don't read your book I devour your book I I consume your book I I uh pull stuff out of your book so am I preparing a lesson on habits no but I'm filing quotes on habits because there'll be a day I do a teaching on habits and when I get ready to do those teaching known habits guess what I've got all kind of

material you see there are some people they think of as a subject and look for material I do Exactly opposite I look for material and think of a subject totally opposite and so I consistently uh preparing and somebody said well what are you preparing for I'm preparing for someday I'm going to give a talk on habits are you doing this week no no I don't even have one in the future but it doesn't matter yeah my dad he was so wise when he found out at 17 that I was going to speak a lot and

enter the ministry he Said John keep the wealth full never have an empty well he said there's no excuse of going to a well that's supposed to hold water and not having water and why isn't there any water in there you didn't put the water in it and so you get to the opposite be sure that when you go over to the well you just you got a lot of water pulling the bucket up so in preparation I am consistently consistently every day Writing filing thinking ideas uh and putting them sometimes because the number one

time waster is looking for things that are lost and the reason that we're looking for things that are lost is we didn't have a place to put it the first time so I'm extremely disciplined and organized in everything in in material it just um I mean I'll I'll be in a conversation with somebody and I'll pull up and I'll Say now look I'm not texting anybody but I'm just writing down something you said so so I'm not trying to be in the hospital to you I'm just I just don't want to lose it because I

have if I if I don't file it quickly I lose it I probably don't have a way so so I Mark your book I Mark you I mean you know I got your book all marked up and stuff that so what I do is I Mark your book the first time I marked the book and the Second okay the first time I marked the book and the second time I read it the book marks me hmm because the second time I read your book all I do is the markings I'll do anything else and and

I do the margins I do the filings I make sure I didn't lose anything but I read it the second time because if I filed it the first time the second time when I go back through the Marquis markings I'm thinking on it the first time I just kind of said don't Want to lose it so I put it where it needs to be the second time I'm going through now I say there's a reason I didn't want to lose it it was good now why was it so good now I'm going to give some

mental thought mental preparation and I'll take your stuff and I'll I'll I'll pull it out and make it better better is it like your your difference between trying and and training but I have a couple of my staff here with me and and so over a lunch Yesterday I was talking to about what I was learning from you and trying and train training and one of the ways I really do well is I talk it out one of my preparations if if I talk it out um it begins I began to say things that evolve

and all of a sudden I think yeah that you know I it it just adds it and I said because you said you know don't try try that whole process and and all of a sudden I said I think trying is before commitment I think training is after Commitment now you said that Essence in essence in your book that's what you said you said it better but I said it better yeah but but I only said it better for two reasons one you gave me the thought if you don't if if you don't give it

the thought it doesn't get better so now what I'm doing is I'm standing on your shoulders the moment you give me the thought the question is is there a way to take that thought and Either say it in a creative way that people go oh my gosh or build it in such a way that people say that has such maturity and such meat because Craig I can hear a person speak and I know exactly how much preparation they do and a lot of that preparation and now I'm in another part of your book that I'm

taking some side notes on you know stuff is stored up before it shows up And you're talking you loved your part on training when you said you start talking about when when you started doing your uh what is it Jitsu or whatever yeah whatever that is okay that's obvious I don't do that I'm a Pillsbury Dough Boy I don't do that but anyway but but I mean and you and see and I love that you said you know in the second time I'm brand new at this game I went and then I won the third

time I won the fourth time I went a fifth time and I started saying you know I think I think he may be doing drugs I don't like you know he keeps and then you you weren't winning you weren't winning the match you were winning because you were learning something every time you got in a match that made you better and and then you began to say I'm winning them when I'm doing the habits when I'm doing the habits I'm winning and all of a sudden I thought okay what he's doing all these times is

He's storing it up it isn't showing up at all he didn't win in fact you're on the mat you're a yellow knuckle but but it was getting stored up that's preparation and I think sometimes we don't think preparation happens unless it shows up and I think that's a big myth for us I I value the stored up in fact here's what I say if it's not stored up well it won't show up well right so I when something shows up that Hasn't been stored up it shows up pretty quick that the person hasn't given it

much thought they haven't worked it so in preparation I prepare all the time when I was I started off as a pastor in a little Country Church and and probably within three months I realized that these precious beautiful wonderful salted their farmers would be satisfied with any message I Preached I mean they just love me and that was wonderful Pastor wonderful wonderful wonderful and then all of a sudden I got into this temptation I don't have to work hard on my message I could spend a couple hours get a couple scriptures tell a story or

two everybody's happy and I I came to this place Craig where I had to ask myself am I going to wing it or work for it And it took me a couple months I had I had a hard time than I should have on that because I I knew I could get by here's what here when you know that you can get by with winging it the Temptation becomes very big now if I know I'm going to wing it I'm going to flood the test then wait a minute there's no temptation but but when I

can wing it and pass that then all of a sudden I think we're good it's not so bad well I made the Decision to write my sermons out when I was 22 years of age in a little country church and work for it little did I know that writing that the discipline writing my messages out helping not only do better messages but it helped me learn to write and and so I've worked for it I work for it and here's the difference if you're gifted and you wing it They Don't Really prepare you can get

in the top 20 if you're gifted but if you're gifted and you work for it And get it in the top two percent and I'm going to tell you something the top two percent owns the world not the top 20. 20 top 20 makes a good living top two percent fail the world so if you so in our giftedness it's kind of interesting and our giftedness there's a tendency for us to want to wing it because we get by with it but it will work for it that return is just humongous in our Life so

so I prepare every day I prepare I'm I'm preparing and filing and and thinking and creating and developing and and and and building because there's going to be a day when I'm going to want that and and it's I've already stored it up and not pulling out you know so when somebody says how you know how long did it take you to write the book 25 30 years you know and now it'll take you to do this sermon 25 30 years 40 years it's take to be a long Time because I understand storing up before

showing up which is all part of preparation well it works and when if people are listening right now and thinking well does what do you really work on it all the time I would just say from my perspective I absolutely believe it and think that any good communicator always has his or her antennas up looking for ideas looking for illustrations looking for ways to make emotional connections looking for ways To make applications great I stop your podcast a minimum of eight times every time I hear you yeah I I've never heard a podcast that you've

given that I haven't put you on hold at least eight times why because you just said something I have got to get put in my files or that I got to put in my idea file or I gotta go over there put it in my thinking corner to come back I I've never listened to you straight through I don't even know how to listen to you Straight through if you were well if you weren't any good I could listen to you straight through but if you weren't any good I wouldn't listen to you but but

but I mean the point being I stop all the time because I don't want to miss what you just said or build on what you said or I've got at least file so I'll file it then turn you back on you know walk a little bit more stop and and file it and I I just it's just huge Because of that very thing there is if I have a conversation with anybody and I don't pull my iPhone out and ask them to stop for a moment that other person needs to realize that wasn't a good

conversation I walked away with nothing so anyway enough of that yeah well that's yeah I think it is really worth highlighting that you know we look at you and say you are you are John Maxwell you know the the Premier speaker Communicator teacher on leadership in the world today and I think what I want our audience to hear is you are not that by accident you're not that by Talent alone you're not that but because of natural gifts you're not that because of where you're born that you're working at it developing it crafting it honing

it diving into it internalizing it incorporating it on and on and on and on and on and it's a it's in many ways a full-time job to take in The world look for lessons and learn how to bring it about it and I mean I I want to talk about all your laws and I want to say it again just in case someone didn't catch it the first time hold up the book The 16 undeniable laws of communication apply them and make the most of your message get this book get this book get this book

it's going to change your communication a couple of the things that I just don't even know how to get into all of them but I want To highlight number five the law of collaboration some of your best thinking will be done with others you said that even you Illustrated it when you're talking about you like to talk your ideas out and for me one of the best things to do is to have other people in the room in the preparation process to talk it out and then they'll say things that will spark ideas and then

your law of Simplicity law number 10 communicators take something complicated And make it simple if there's one thing that stands out I think of all of the traits in your communication that I admire is I always walk away thinking that was Brilliance Made Simple like I can I can it's like PhD material put on the bottom shelf that anybody can access and that's not easy to do that's what is incredibly complicated to make a complicated truth simple talk us through that what's the Difference between simplistic complex and simple when we're communicating a message first of

all if they if they don't understand it why did you say it in fact whenever I hear a communicator always explain explain what they just said I always want to roll in my hand and just say why didn't you just say the Expo why didn't you do the last sentence first and we wouldn't have heard the other three and um you know I wasn't trained to be Simple as a communicator so it's it's a hard process it's not it isn't easy um I was trained in in college and and my classes uh we we basically

um ignored Simplicity I won the senior when I was a senior in college as a theolog I won the senior speaker award or whatever and and my the title of my message Craig was the incompatibility of sin and sonship well that tells you that you're already sticker it says everything you want to know does I mean I mean who in the heck can figure out what the incompatibility of sin and sonship was but I but the reason and the reason I got the award is I I did the sermon for the professors I didn't do

it the students are all howling because they knew that wasn't how I talked they were you know but and so I just went in on the incompatibility of saying you know I I mean I could have looked at the kids and said send less you know what I mean and could go on on to the point But what I realized is is the fact that I was trying I was trying not to get personal illustrations you know or because that would be too much about yourself so you always give up and and so I tried

all this stuff that that I was taught the first year that I was got to practice a lot as a pastor and I found it didn't work so so okay now what am I what what am I going to do well I'm I'm with farmers and and Farmers have to have simple and So I I would I would I literally went down and I had a guy named Claude I had a guy named Benny I had a few people that I would throw my ideas around with them and and and and and and [Music] kind

of work them until Claude Betty lights would come on and and or they would say something it was very simple and some their Farmers sometimes incredibly crude it was it was a shock for me but anyway the Whole point of it was I began I began to understand that I had to speak on their level then when I went to California it was the going to California was a beautiful thing for me as a pastor because those people weren't Church they could care less they didn't have any kind of biblical background in fact they were

so bad that I got everybody the same Bible this was before we had all the visual aids and Etc so I could tell what page To turn talk because I got tired of them trying to try to fight you know trying to find Nehemiah or whatever I mean it did you know how long are we going to wait before we can get there so so I I I very quickly began to ask myself and sit again in the Pew and say what what do they need and what do they and and how do they need

to hear it so that they could connect with it and I began to hear compliments of people that would say you know you don't sound like a Pastor and I I'm not trying to that that I don't want to say that in a wrong way but but but I considered that a compliment because I realized now I was started and then I started sitting down so that I would be more conversation I because I found that when I stood in the beginning I was a little too passionate a little bit just I kind of was

a little bit of an Overkill speaker I kind of overwhelmed people like oh whoa my gosh here he comes you know here comes the Fire and and I found that when I would sit it would make me conversational with people much more than than what I was saying so I just began to do specific things the lobby to know that I was doing well and then that I that I was connecting with people but but in the beginning I I could still remember them in the beginning I went to uh the pulpit was my great

New Testament because I took Greek And I I mean I read I mean why does the farmer care that I have a Greek New Testament I mean I was so stupid I was so far off I was so non-connected and the reason I like to say those illustrations is for people to understand how bad I was migrated if somebody would say I get one wish I know what my wish would be I would wish people could see me 50 years ago I wasn't any good I would greatly encourage people and people heard me communicate 50

years ago and people saw me leave 50 years ago honestly they would be greatly encouraged because I wasn't that good I'm not trying to be humble I wasn't that good I think that's the testimony to growth and preparation and discipline in your life to make the need of changes and any person I think any person can Have greatness within them but greatness doesn't come out has to be worked out right great greatness doesn't you know somebody said well I'm just waiting for greatness to evolve it ain't going to evolve you gotta chisel them work at

it you gotta pull it out you got to be very intentional in how you do it and what you do and uh so in the area of being simple and and and and uh keep it I was doing an interview one time and and the and the TV guy So now read your books in there and he said in concert anyway he said I read your books and they're quite simple and I said yeah I said I work hard to get them get them there for everybody to understand but then I looked at them I

said but they aren't simple to apply are they and but here's what I know what do I want the people to know what I want the people to do you know that I know that and and I I want to I want Them to know what I want to do if I wanted to know something do something it has to always be something that they can understand if they can't understand it we've lost the battle right and I want to highlight that John because that's so important a lot of communicators start with like just what

I want them to know and so it's just a communication of information you have in law number 16 it's called The Law of results the greatest success is communication in Action and what you want to do is you want to create a bridge to action so you don't just want them to know something but you want them to do something and that's really important my pastor used to always say before you preach a message ask so what meaning I just don't want to hear information now what do I do with it it's like so you

said I'm going to add one thing to it you said what I want them to know what I want them to do what I added to that what I Learned from you and from others is the know and the do I add feel to it and so I teach our communicators what I want them to know what I want them to feel and what I want them to do and the reason I want them to feel something is because knowledge alone doesn't lead to action but emotion leads to action you have to feel something and

so I'd love for you to comment a little bit about that and what I I mean every time John I hear you I want to run through a wall With excitement and I've got a new tool to use what goes through your mind to make a talk actionable the law of results number 16 the greatest success in communication is action what do you do to create the ability for me to apply what you're teaching and help motivate me to do it in one of my laws I talk about uh in the inventions of all preparation

I talk about Best Picture in big picture and and the best or their best message And big message the best message is the message I'm preaching right now I call it my best because I've given it my best shot it certainly can improve but it's my best now I I just I describe my best as the best I can do right at this moment it's the best it's all I can do it's the best I can do it doesn't mean it won't get better but it's the best right now tomorrow that best is the floor

that I build on to make it better so so but but that's my best message but There's a there's a big message I preach and this is one of my favorite parts of the book I talk about uh the big message is your DNA as a communicator it's uh the best message they're taking notes on because that's the message they're hearing but it's the big message that goes to that heart and there are four questions you ask yourself in that and that is what do I want them to see what do I want them to

know what do I want them to feel and what do I want them to Do and what do I want them to see my big message my DNA when you hear me communicate I'm a possibility Communicator so I want what I what I want them to see is possibility I mean I I lift the lid I no matter where they are I want them when they walk out to see a little higher see a little farther and that's just who I want them to see possible so I'm a possibility Communicator that's part of The Maxwell

DNA what I want them to know is that I value them that's That's essential to me I want them to especially in the world that I communicate uh with that is not a always a faith world most times it's not faithful world I want to know how much I value them because that's the key to the relationship that allows you to share your faith down the road so I want them to see their possibilities I want them to feel that they that I value them And then all right and then what I wanted to know

is there's I want to I want them to see their possibilities I want them to know what their value what I want them to feel is empowered okay I want to I want them to feel that what I just shared with them they can go do if I ass if I if I communicate something to people and they walk out and they say that's Just I don't want him to walk out and say man John's amazing that's what that guy can do that doesn't help them it only helps them if they look and say I

think I'm amazing and I can do that and so I want them to feel empowered as they leave that okay great they have that and then then what I want them to do is I want them to uh apply to their life and then multiply it in others that That's what I wanted to do so I would never consider any communication effective unless it brought a person to action um I've I've never known I've never think of it this way there is no success without action none I mean when people talk about success I've never

known a person who didn't act but was successful or you know they thought that they didn't act a name you have to there comes a time when you have To do it and so my passion to get people to do it is really high and and to me the test of did I communicate well was it whether they liked it the test of my communication is when they finished they did something about it and then it becomes it that's a good message a great message is when they did something about it and they were so

motivated they got someone else to do about it now now that that message has Likes so I can't imagine a scenario where I would communicate without anticipating and showing a plan of action for them to do something about what I communicate I wouldn't it be highly frustrating to have knowledge and then not know what to do with that knowledge to me that's kind of leaving them hanging out there so I you know one of the things I did learn in college is preach for verdict yeah preach for a verdict you're born Anderson so every time

I communicate I'm going after some seeable action in a person's life that I can walk away quite assured that they did something about what I talked about does that make sense it does and I want to ask you two more questions one is going to be a very personal ask to our audience and then the second one I'm going to ask you to tell us where we can find out more about you but I'm going to say it again it's the 16 undeniable laws of communication John's written over a hundred books and I can I

can go through and talk about individual chapters individual quotes that have helped change the trajectory of my leadership and this is one of those books in it John you talked about this one the law of the change uh the sameness is the death of communication and I know and you talk a lot about I mean varying speed tone all this kind of stuff one of the ways I teach our communicators this is I'll tell them That the Hat you wear determines the emotion they feel you can put on a pastor's hat or you can say

hey as one parent to another parent you put on a parent hat you can say you can put on a friend hat hey I know what you're going through and as a friend I would tell you this you can put on the boss hat you know you put the you can put you can put on the coach hat there's all these different hats you said something earlier you'll sit down sometimes Because you're more conversational these are all different approaches to help us connect and move us to action I would like for you if you wouldn't

mind to put on whatever hat you would choose and you can tell us what hat that is and I want you to talk directly to our audience and I want you to I want you to feel what they feel right now we've got a stay-at-home mom who's starting a business and feels overwhelmed and she as as she's starting To communicate with her team recruit volunteers recruit recruit teams members whatever you've got a seasoned youth pastor who feels ineffective connecting with teenagers you've got a sales person that doesn't feel very effective in communicating you've got someone

who needs to lead up to a boss who wants to communicate put on some hat and talk to us and tell us we can get better the most you centered message I want them to feel it right now They're driving they're working out I want them to feel from one of the best communicators on the planet just how possible it is for them to become great well I put on my friend hats what I put on um I mean you gave me several scenarios but all the scenarios have something in common and that it was

life is not going well for them it was getting a little difficult the hill was a little higher Than what they thought they'd have to climb so for you my friend what I would say first of all is I've been there uh when I say I've been there I've had a lot more losses than I've had wins I've had a lot more misses than I've had hits and uh I couldn't feel for Where You Are because there were times when I looked At myself and I thought wow is there hope and how the heck am

I going to get some help and and they weren't the same I I wanted to have hope that tomorrow would get better but I had to have somebody to come along and help me to make it better because I didn't know what stuff to take it would be next so the first thing I want you to know is is I've been there the second thing I want you to know is that there is hope and help Hope is in you help is from others probably hope is in you having a sense to believe if your

person of faith that God's going to help you and going to give you that strength but hope it's also within yourself it is allowing yourself to believe that you can do better and be better have more than you have today and and the self-belief is pretty Important but the but the but the feeder self-belief is Hope so I just want you to know that you have a reason to Hope because there have been people in worse situations than yours that have climbed out of that pit and they've done very well there is help there's help

for you but you do not get help by hoping for it you get help by going looking for this is where you have to take action help doesn't always find you help Doesn't always come to you sometimes you have to be uh willing to ask for help you have to be willing to go to where people are and and tell them what you need and and have a sense of swallowing pride and say I I just feel that if if you could just give me a couple thoughts or ideas or helping in for a very

short time I I could make it but but you need help I would also want you to know very very much that I invite myself personally Have have discovered that the moment I want to be different God sends me people to make a difference and situations that make a difference and uh ideas that make a difference and opportunities that make a difference but that that is only taken by action in fact I have a little lesson called action attraction and the lesson just very simply says the moment I know what I want to accomplish And

I start moving then all of a sudden the things that I'm looking for begin to appear but they don't appear while I sit they appear while I move and this is the big Miss because when we're discouraged and depressed there's a tendency for us to hold and and not do anything and and and and and that's that's not going to get it we action creates the attraction when I move then the resources move but I have to move first and some people say Well I would move but I don't see any resources I say you

don't see any resources because you don't move and so the action begins to attract the right people to you and when they come become a student and start trying start trying start trying and begin to begin to make those attempts you know trying is good as long as it's not an excuse to stop trying I I think I've tried a lot of things to find out what I needed to do so that I could Then train for it but but so I I just I would just say forget start trying attempt uh do some of

the things that people suggest that you do to get yourself out of that situation and of course I would encourage you greatly to if you're not a person of faith I honestly Craig I I sometimes wonder how people who don't have a relationship with God I it's just hard for me to understand how they ever can get to where they Really want to go because of all the assets that come with Christian Living and and the the blessings that come with it that you can speak it gets to be pretty good so I would hope

that you would also begin to trust God to help you with some of those resources that you need in your life I want to say thank you for that encouragement to our community I I love our community so much and I hope I just say to those of you listening I hope you feel that I hope You feel my love for you and and John just John loves everybody he comes in contact with it I want to just wrap back on what you just did there and I want to tell our community what you did

that made what you did effective John put on his friend hat he called you early on my friend and then then he connected with you identified he said the hill you're climbing feels higher than you expected and he says I've been there so the first thing he did is he made a connection Then he gave you something that was tangible something could hold on to There's Hope in you and help from others that's something I can remember it's something that I feel then you were said you've got to go look for it then you created

action you gave us permission and encouraged us to ask for help then what I love is you made it personal again in their Midway through you said what I want you to know and so it's a you oriented message the whole Time you weren't talking about yourself you were talking about your listener and then you started to build Faith first of all a normal faith that that if you want something different you got to go get it and you built this faith that it was possible then you built my faith by saying that you have

to act first and you're creating action and then you save the part about faith in God all the way to the very end of the podcast after you've built credibility with people and You just almost can't spend the whole day with John a bet without him sharing his faith but you did it at a time when we had maybe if we weren't a person of Faith you'd added value to us we liked you and you have some credibility and then you shared the real hope that you have which is um in Jesus and in a

way that made a difference so that's what John just did it was natural to him after years of practice but that's why you need to get The 16 undeniable laws of communication uh John thank you a million times over for your friendship yeah your mentorship your example we've got a lot of people who'd probably love to find more of your resources what's the best way to keep growing from what you have to offer well they just go to the web web page and you know Maxwell you know for the book uh on the pre-order it

was go to Maxwell leadership.myshopify.com but that sounds Way too complicated to me I mean dear lord it's got to be said so just go to the Maxwell leadership app uh go there or go to the webpage Maxwell page I mean you'll get it tonight Maxwell leadership out and don't forget John go to Spotify and get the song Get Over Yourself get over myself come on get over myself you got to know yourself grow yourself get over yourself I don't know I have not heard the song yet but we're going there John thanks so much and

thank you to our Our leadership Community we love you value you if this is helpful to you we'd love for you to share the content tag John Maxwell tag me and we may repost you uh if it's if you have time leave a comment we work hard to add value to your um leadership and if you can rate or review the content that is a very real gift to us and we'll join you again on the first Thursday of every month John will be there listing it blows me away My hero would listen to the

content and uh the book is the 16 undeniable laws of communication apply them uh and make the most of your message get John's book learn from him we'll see you next time keep growing because we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better foreign