Mastering The Art Of Ethical Sales & Influence - Ryan Tuckwood

Everything comes back to communication right you want to pay rise you want to get a new job everything comes down to how you say the words that leave your mouth all right guys welcome back to the Dream Out Loud podcast and today's interview I'm sitting down with the number one sales coach in all of Australia my man Mr Ryan cockwood there is an order of which we can say things to human beings that can massively Impact the value they receive in those words what does swish stand for it's an acronym that stands for selling web

integrity and selling honestly if you want to go back to your 18 year old self give him 30 seconds of advice what would it be um it would be [Music] [Music] hi guys welcome back to the Dream Out Loud podcast in today's interview I'm Sitting down with the number one sales coach in all of Australia and also the founder of swish sales training company with over 13 years experience in the world of sales communication and human behavior he noticed that there was an aspect to sales that most people didn't like which made him create a

new way in the sales industry having appeared on Shark Tank and being the first person in the Australian history on the show to have three of the Investors invest personally with his business he has been on an expansive Journey since speaking to multiple countries around the world helping professionals become better at sales at the sales game while remaining with Integrity so please help me welcome the guy who went from sleeping on a bathroom floor with 31 cents to his name to now the founder of swish sales which is partnered with companies like Queensland Health Queensland

education American Express Mercedes-Benz and so many more my man Mr Ryan talkwood hello hello that was a great intro I can't wait to meet this guy that sounds good I'm really excited for it because you know like we've met a few times yeah and then like I love you as a person a lot and then when I was reading your buyer I was like oh my God I didn't know about all these other things I'm like I didn't know about some of the Companies you're working with I uh like I didn't know about the shark

tank stuff I didn't know about your story of 31 cents your name you know and all these things so I'm I'm really excited to sort of get to know you even deeper here at the same time yeah all these guys get to know you as well so yeah it helped it is interesting in that capacity because I normally get asked why didn't you tell me that when I first met you I'm like well who does that right and that and That is literally what the opposite of what we're trying to teach yeah so so tell

us firstly for everyone swish sales what does swish stand for uh swish is a two-part right so firstly it's an acronym that stands for selling with integrity and selling honestly and so we believe that you don't need to change who you are you don't need to become inauthentic and but you can learn to articulate your message better right so it's about telling your truth better Um and the other part is that it actually crosses Way Beyond professional life and it crosses into your personal life as well so just in general acting with integrity and honesty

and everything that we do and um we often say that within organizations or individuals that we coach over time we embed what we call switch DNA DNA as horrible as that sounds into them and they just we talk about swisherisms and and just doing things the the swish way Which is just doing right by people right where did it come from um awesome question so I'll take you back for context so we started in 2014 we actually started out as International sales School Gold Coast so we were International Gold Coast so it actually didn't make

any sense um so we were thinking big but not that big we were like yeah okay so we wanted to be an international sales school on the Gold Coast Um so it was ISS GC it was the same year that Isis came out great um Isis had a much stronger SEO than we did Google so no you don't want to Google search that especially because it was we we were recruit we did sales recruiting so it was if you searched ISS recruitment it was okay Somebody's knocking on your door so so we changed that pretty

quick we we evolved to ISR training which was instant sales results then it was um International sales and real estate Training we started about I'll film Real Estate um and then in 2018 post Shark Tank Jack and I the the co-founder he exited 2020. we're having a discussion about potentially rebranding I said I just don't feel that ISR means anything and he just said to me is that is there anything that you consistently say when you do your training I said I don't know I just I when I when I when I open a room

or an event I say I want to show You guys how to sell with integrity and sell honestly and he went say that again and and then it just hit it was like swish so it was a bit accidental even though we might have been doing it in adversity for a few years and once we did Rebrand to swish all of a sudden we started to attract the right people um and with love we started to repel the Jordan Belfort Wall Street wannabes that's what I want to get into right because I for you to

start wanting to teach people selling with integrity and honesty without even so I didn't know you didn't I thought you started the company because you're like this is what I want to do so where did it kind of come from like did you have bad experiences with you know Jordan Belford mentality or the this is called the old school snakes what I call it snake oil snake oil snake oil sales and right yeah did You have any bad experiences like that or is that sort of how you got indoctrinated into this industry and were you

against that or I I fell into the industry kicking and screaming like I didn't want to be in sales um so my background's actually engineering I was a mechanical maintenance engineer for eight years in the UK I moved here in 2010 I often talk about my quarter life crisis at the age of 27. Um I was very comfortable back in the UK I was earning some good money I hadn't had a property um but I just wasn't fulfilled and and that's why I love what you do right you really kind of help people get out

of their own way and reach their potential I wasn't around any of that but I just knew that there was more out there potentially for me so when I moved here I didn't want to get back into engineering and because I was a Backpacker I was on a working holiday Visa nobody would give me a job because you can only work on that visa for six months at one company and you have to move on so it's two it's just and in the ass for them um so the only work I could get was in

call centers so I round up in a wound up in a call center um my job was to smash the phone 300 times a day um and every single outbound cold dirty Damn right dirty cold call I had 90 seconds to find out if a random stranger had 15 to 25 000 liquid cash um a few Financial Services uh it was like a boiler room environment so if you said to me yeah I've got 18 000 I would then take your details put it in a tray every hour the receptionist would come around take that

lead put it through to the sales guys in another room we never see those guys I just knew they were making loads of money and then they Would sell you different Financial Services advice and all this like property and all that jazz um I absolutely hated it like I was I was getting told to go away in no uncertain terms best part of 295 times a day and um for context because it will help explain why I started the business um as a child I was a classic introvert my mum took me to the doctors

because I had weird social anxiety issues like I Didn't like public settings I didn't like going to uh school or kids parties or dinners or anything like that so take that kid and put him in the call center and smash them over the head nearly 300 times a day like it started to great at me um there were 21 people in that call center I was 21st out of 21 people for the first three months um and then one night and you you referenced it in the intro um I got to The stage where I

had 31 cents to my name and I was sleeping on a bathroom floor on a pool floaty um this is here in Australia this is in Broad Beach here on the Gold Coast yeah um and one night it was a I remember it so clearly it was a Tuesday night probably about two o'clock in the morning I mean this windowless box of a bathroom sleeping on this floaty and all of a sudden it pops on me and I just sink to the floor and I'm like What am I doing right that's that was my like

what's the point moment um so the next day I actually went in and I and I quit handed my notice in and it and this is why I why I'm I'm so passionate about communication and words and how you deliver words and the conviction behind them is because that conversation I had with my sales manager at the time who actually ended up being the co-founder of swish with me changed the whole trajectory of my life because I went into him and I told him I was done I was like I'm not made for sales I'm

not an extrovert I don't have the gift of the gab I don't have like a resilience to just let things like wash over me and he looked me in the eyes and just said to me I'm not letting you quit because you haven't even tried and and for me I didn't really understand it at the time and I even Questioned her I said what do you mean I am I'm working hard he says yeah you're working hard but you haven't truly tried to understand the art and craft of sales and communication um and I actually

said to him ironically I said that's because it's not a learned skill and I didn't I genuinely didn't believe that I I did believe that I believe that sales was something you're either born with or you weren't you either had the gift of the Gabba or you didn't um and he said give me 60 days and since found out it takes the average Westerner 66 days to form new habits and behaviors he said just give me 60 days and if you fanatically obsess over this for the next two months and you don't go from 21st

to 20th just one rung of the ladder I'll pay for you and Alicia who ended up becoming my wife I'll pay for you guys to fly wherever you want in the world but leave here knowing that you've Given this everything you've got um and in my head I'm like free flights sweet I'll just all I've got to do is get abuse for another 60 days and he's going to pay for my flies like I didn't think it would work and I actually didn't want it to work because if it worked it meant that he was

right and it meant that I was wrong and I don't like being wrong so I would rather have failed and been right but I became fanatical I did 15 20 minutes Initially every single day um I I do talk about Jordan a lot um but I also do credit Jordan Belford say what you want about him he did everything for the wrong reasons but it was the first program I did that made me realize that sales is a process there is an order of which we can say things to human beings that can massively impact

the value they receive in those words um and I went from 21st to First in five weeks I rub to the top literally five Weeks didn't even take me 60 days um and then within 18 months I did 334 000 in commissions and my whole life changed not because of the money because of the lessons that I had along the way the the first one was that sales is impact um my dad he's still with us today but um in 2001 he got diagnosed with really aggressive stage four esophagus cancer um he had the longest

non-brain surgery In UK history at the time 23 hours straight so they literally ripped his whole face open and he's highly disfigured he had lots of reconstructive surgery so through that process they they lost their house they don't have pension and 2013 I was able to give them money I was able to send money home and pay their rent and just just like send them on little holidays so for me it was sales's impact and then the other lesson was sales is a process there is an order Of which you can do things that can

change and that's a fell in love with it what's up dream Nation have you ever wondered how far ahead your life would have already been if you hadn't got access to this type of content at a younger age look this is why I need your help I'm trying to build the number one person development platform out there to you guys the tips tricks and attitude of what it takes to live your dream life and to bring the type of education that We all wish we had in school this show only Grows by word of mouth

and new subscribers so it would mean the world to me if you could smash that subscribe button right now leave us a five star written review or drop a comment below and share this episode with a friend I would be forever grateful alright now let's get back into this episode take it take us through the sun right because what I know and I hope everyone listening to this is sales probably is I would say please number one school you could probably learn right sales because it's it's communication it's influence yes I'm actually thinking about writing

a book all on um I'm gonna actually call it manipulation because I think it'll hook people yeah yeah um because everything in this world yeah right I'll manipulate you into reading it Right I'll put that in right but like because it's so true like if if you're not actually influencing someone you're being influenced by others and if you're not aware this is what I love so much about everything we just went through with covert and everything because I'm so aware of influence on every single degree as much as I you know I'm aware of I'm

just very conscious of when people are trying to throw shade over my eyes I'm very conscious of When people perhaps are doing things out of Integrity or when they're trying to manipulate for their own gain or whatever right and then I can actually see what's happening and choose my own decision from that but a lot of people are not aware yeah of what people might be saying to them or how they're saying I see so many people get into abusive relationships oh he was a narcissist she was the narcissist yeah they probably could be but

if You're aware of how other people are influencing you you'd be able to stop it a lot earlier so talk to us about you said there's a process so what is the process I'm sure like I know you teach for days on end about it right but if you can give these guys like something here where they're like oh my god I've never thought of it like that like what kind of process is there to communication to really influence someone effectively and I think I'll just pick up with someone who said there as well it

works both ways right so you call it sales if you want call it communication it doesn't matter but it works both ways right you learn the skills of I I actually prefer the word inspiration as opposed to manipulate persuade influence hate the word convinced because the first three letters don't sit well with me um so I like to call it inspiration so how can you inspire somebody to do Something for the right reasons um and it just it always always just comes back to human connection everything comes back to human connection there's that what we

call the 300 rule of value which is ultimately based across three slash four verticals which is myself the company and the product um what I find often happens is people become obsessed on I need to know my product inside out I need to know the Company inside out and they forget the human connection so don't even study sales study people I study Behavioral Science Study emotional intelligence study personality profiling like understand empathy um and understand how to read somebody's non-verbals if you do that you'll connect which instantly gives you then credibility to promote your product

or service and that's what I think is missed because if we look go back to That 300 rule you got me company product the most important thing there is not me company or the product it's the order of which you sell each one of those and you have to come first right so me sharing my story at the beginning some people would have switched off as soon as you heard English sales training Gold Coast like they're gone already but then I they share I share my story and it has to be your truth I always

talk about it's just telling your truth better that Helps me now get to the company values and then ultimately the product or service that I offer which is my sales coaching if that makes sense so for me if you really want to influence somebody you work on the human connection first the company and the product a secondary and tertiary all right so at one point can we can we like can we role play yeah can we do this so sell me a pen no no why because it is It is an absolutely pointless exercise unless

you want to go for a default discovery because you shouldn't be just I I also ask people they're going to get interviewed if you go for a sales job and this and the sales manager says sell me this pen and walk out of that interview straight away interesting I hope you don't do that in your interviews no I've never done in my Life um because it means that their thinking is outdated their thinking is not about a connection with a human being they're thinking is about a product does that make sense yeah totally so it's

like take take everything out of the equation so so it's like some of this pen so what they're actually saying is you haven't even asked them if they want to buy a pen yet what you're saying before that before that I would I would Go further than that and I would say based on our interaction so far you've been in this interview now for 12 minutes what personality type do you think I am that's what I'd be wanting them to do do you know what I mean I would want to know do you have an

ability to read somebody in 45 to 60 seconds to know whether the pen is what I'm selling or whether it's the outcome of using the pen that is what I'm going to sell does That make sense yeah yeah so so you're more teaching people how to understand human behavior versus selling a product 100 and you can sell any product if you understand human behavior and I I could and I've done this and you know you know Sasha uh I proved it for him I I know nothing about Ecom I I he wanted me to help

him write his script and his sales structure um I said the best way for me to do that is to listen some calls he goes actually Would you jump on a call I was like yeah absolutely I said I promise you now though I know nothing about Ecom um I actually called Shopify Spotify on the call to this guy in America it's a genuinely listen to the recording um and I did two calls one at 11 o'clock at night one o'clock at one I wanted one in the morning same night first night I made 220

25 000 US dollar sales and I didn't even talk about the product all I did was connect with them as a Human being and find out what they want to achieve and then attached the vehicle of which we had to their outcomes so what's your kind of process of understanding so if I'm understanding it correctly is that one is sort of identifying be able to understand how they actually communicate so then you can speak their language properly would that be correct so that that's if we're talking about like that's once you've got them Step One

is prep so we've got a 10-step process called the negotiation ladder Step One is preparation can we go through it yeah our prep is um role play prep is regulation prep is do you have everything logistically set up and prep is your professional stalk on the customer um so and that's that's obviously relative to the price point as well so if you're selling a 100 to get something you're not gonna be doing research but if we're selling six Figure clients we we have a definitive amount of time that we're going to spend doing a professional

store so is it is it five minutes if it's five minutes where do you go is it LinkedIn what's your what's your one source of Truth is it Google are you looking for awards are you looking for their values on their website like crap then we go into our intro um and our intro we know we've got four and a half to seven seconds over the Phone um to get them to what like you or just to make an unconscious connection um so not to like us to so there's a there's a yeah reports an

overviews word because Rapport is different to everybody um I like Tony Robbins version of Rapport which is total responsiveness between two humans so you ask me a question I'll give you an answer if I ask you a question you feel comfortable To give me a response and most people will never get to that stage of Rapport um but if you if you look at the Harvard definition of creating a connection instantly it's 1.48 seconds face to face and it's 4.5 to 7 Seconds over the phone um and I I always struggled with that because I

was like how do I get someone to connect or or like me in that short amount of time and then I stumbled off across a quote by um Zig Ziglar uh I'll get old Zig and he said if people like You they'll listen to you but if they trust you they'll do business with you and I was like okay how do I get them to trust me in bloody four and a half seconds um and now summarize you can't but you can get them to think that they trust you because we trust people we know

so the key is not to have Rapport that key is not to create a connection that the key is to sound familiar in that first 4.5 to 7 seconds So instead of saying how am I speaking to Morgan if I ask if I say how am I speaking to Morgan I've just lost that call already because I've just admitted that I don't know you um whereas if I was say Morgan Ryan swish sales coaching past tense question how have you been how have you been past tense question it's a presuppose that yeah and you will

get Um good you and they'll sound confused and I would much rather be confusing on the phone than have Clarity that you're a cold caller or a marketer or whatever it is and then put the phone down and this works whether it's inbound whether it's outbound because even if it's an inbound lead that you're now calling back from an inquiry you're still calling them out the blue unless it's an actual schedule call you would look to do that right at The beginning we call it scrambling their internal dialogue yeah I love this because it's it's

something what they're not expecting right so I know the two two parts of the mind and we've got our logical brain our creative right and if they're in their logic it's more they're more on defense right or they're more on it's going to make sense so you saying that would actually push them onto the right side of the brain we'll we'll think think About I know and and this is this is a a big thing that happened to me in 2017 I went to see Tony Robbins and and Tony said if people like you sorry

no I was exactly people like to buy but they hate to be sold to yeah people like they love to buy things we get that dopamine hit when we buy things but we don't like being sold to and in my head I'm like oh I created a sales training company what I should have created was a how to help people buy company and that's what Sent me down the rabbit hole of consumer behaviors so everything then I shift onto look at it through the lens of the consumer not the lens of the sales person and

if you do that and you literally do that and you go right I've got a lead here Morgan put an inquiry in you last night um I'm gonna ring him back right now out the blue what is he gonna think when he sees that phone ringing right he's gonna Look at the number he's gonna go that's a number I don't know right so who is it I then pick it up firstly before I even look at it it's like who is it I look at the number who is it then I pick it up and

I go high is that Morgan he's just gone who is it who is it you don't know me right that's that's that's the conversation that you've just had in your head within like three seconds before I even get to say anything I'm on the back foot so you have to nail that First intro um so we we go deep into to that I mean I've done 330 000 cold calls in my time um and you learn not to get punched in the face if you do that many cold calls um what else what else can

you teach us around it's like what I learned on the weekend right I was another event and I was learning about you know behavioral psychology and what I I forget which company let's just say it's Walmart maybe they did it first I forget but What they actually realized was you know you walk into a Kmart or a Big W here and you walk in the store and there's someone always there and they always just say good morning or hello welcome yeah nothing else not selling nothing and so what they realized was I always thought that

they're there to check your receipts and every time I leave I'm like these guys are such a job they never check their receipts and if they do they're like yeah I'm like this Guy's getting paid to be I literally thought that's what that job was what they realized was uh one of the big companies in America did it first they put somebody in there to only greet the customer as they walked in and they realized they did two things one was law of reciprocity they'd give them a compliment straight away and the second one was

it would change their thinking pattern because they were walking and thinking they're in this logical thing That they'll change their thinking pattern to more like I wasn't expecting it no put off they tracked these people and what they realized was the people would start spending approximately 22 percent longer in the store right and then they tracked it I forget I'd be making on the data for the next one if I if I if I said it right but there was something a little lower something like 12 15 15 more purchases from the people yeah I

believe so they Put this one person in and saw that huge difference that's why it's been rippled through nearly every single you see in Big W and all these big big companies they have people there to solely just welcome you because it just it puts you understand being like I want to give so take that all the way back to literally what is happening it's a human connection you've got mCP right yeah the first thing they connect you to is the me the Human they're literally putting you in a different frame before you before you

walk in it humanizes the experience you know I'm not in a Walmart or a Kmart or whatever it is there's a human being that actually lives here it does it just changes your thinking straight away if if you were working in let's say let's say you're working in retail and people coming into your store it's your job to engage them in the Conversation which nearly every single person does hey can I help you with anything today hey how you going it's always an annoying question you're like no no I'm good I'm good I'm just looking

and then three seconds are you like I actually need help with a shirt yeah they don't want to ask them so if you're working in real in retail and you're that person what would be your approach to people coming to the store yeah awesome question and firstly I did do a Little stint at Pac Fair as well so I didn't realize that I was in sales at the time I called myself a personal stylist but I was in retail sales so for me I utilize What I Call Value Builders and I'll give you I'll give

you an actual example of something that I I use in some of with some of our retail clients so we coach company called Brisbane Isuzu um Isuzu trucks so they have a male dominated audience and when people walk Into the dealership if a female assistant approaches them rightly or wrongly it is commonplace and and I've had this feedback for the last two or three years since we've been coaching them that the men will go oh is there anybody else that can look after me to the women right it literally happens to in 2023 um and

one of the ladies as well I was doing the coaching session I said well how long have you been with Isuzu for She's I've been here 11 years Ryan I know more than most the blokes here about the trucks I'm like but it's not their job to know that it's your job to articulate that so what I would do and I would do this if I was in a retail environment and I got her to do it as well and she increases her conversion by 19 in the following three months was as you walk up

you open with a value Builder what I mean by that is I would say hey just so you know I've Been here for 11 years I've helped over 2 300 people get into trucks don't know if I can help you but if you need any help I'll be over there and I'll walk off right so it's an open and an exit at the same time they have no time to tell me that they're not they're just looking I don't say good morning how are you all I'm doing is telling you that I'm an experienced individual

and if you need anything I'll be over there I'm still Reapproaching in two minutes but I'm I'm giving them that freedom to do whatever they want for two minutes as well so it just breaks that cycle because we've all walked into a retail environment before and somebody says good morning and you go just looking yeah they didn't even hear the question we are conditioned to repel it it's like and this is where I talk about like just understand consumer behaviors that's just looking is a lie Um can I have a discount people that disk I

mean we could talk about this five hours if you want I've got a discount on the way here but I never asked for a discount I say that's even worse but I no I I build a rapport with them I I'm just I think I just do it so naturally I just connect with people and then uh I usually ask a question which gets them thinking about something else and then immediately within a couple seconds often thinking I say what's the Best price you could do on this now yeah and you should and he he

got me uh 40 bucks off which for the sale was uh it was about 150 sales it came out 100 were you going to buy it anyway yeah stupid and and this is my point about discounting right is we as a consumer should ask for a discount oh wait I I will ask for a discount because most salespeople are crap so you should if you don't ask you don't get right most salespeople there and I do a Session on um like the top communication mistakes the biggest mistake is our intent our intent is to make

a sale and our intent shouldn't be to make a sale our intent should be to find out if our sale should be made totally different mindset um and because most people's intent is to make a sale that the second that we get asked a common question which is a consumer Behavior not a prerequisite to a sale and we say can I have a discount Or can you sharpen that up a bit most people will go I'll talk to the manager or I could take 10 off we were going to consume it anyway so my reflex

too can you do that any better is I think we both know the answer to that have you got any other questions it's not real it's just fugazi so when you don't buy into the the game of consumer Behavior I should ask and you just just move it out the way and don't get caught up in it then your margins Increase and you don't really know that until you own a business if it's your own business I promise you you stop chopping up deals like you don't you don't eat into your own margin because you

know what you spend on advertising and marketing and what it costs to get a lead through the door but with respect if you're in retail on the front line 17 18 years old maybe we're a bit well no now screw that age thing because people are still doing It at all ages I I remember one time I was signing up well actually I wasn't even signing up for a gym membership I was going to just look at it check it out and this whole asking questions thing because I used to this is when I first

got into sort of sales and I had my first business I was like I want to ask for more than what I want and I thought I was being cheeky and then when I left there signing up for The membership I realized that she me and uh we're sitting down looking through it all looking through it all and and um and I said to her I was like well you know I'm not gonna do it today anyway she's like yeah I know that I just want to show you options and blah I'm like okay okay

I felt I felt like oh she's she knows she's not just trying to sell me and then um she asked me the question and she's like And I don't wanna I don't wanna sign up today but what do I have to give you today in order for you to sign up and I was like and so fast I thought I had the upper hand I was like well I want you to give me an extra PT session and she goes done let's do it I'm like done then I'm like you it's like wow you got

me so like the power questions so I want to talk about this because that she taught me that the power of questions Because the brain has to answer questions unless you're really in tune with influence and why they're asking questions which by like even me I'm very good at this but if you'll ask me questions nine times out of tonight answer it and then I'm like I bought into that yeah yeah so what are some powerful questions you've like I know there's things in sales with like tie-downs and all these types of things so can

you give us some examples Of some powerful like linguistic tools do you use through sales to get people more along the journey perhaps yeah um two parts to it so firstly that question that she asked you is very powerful with one personality type it's extremely poor with the other 75 of personality types I want to hear about them and this is what's important right and this is what frustrates me about sales training not sales coaching out there in the market Training is just telling information once coaching is refining and and helping somebody grow so like

how to actually use it um and most of the training out there is one size fits all that nobody's teaching how to adapt to just and respond to the person that you've got in front of you like actually to to change the reason I share that is that you need a banquet of questions but you need to know which ones to use On which person right because there is no you could I mean I I'm disk accredited so I like disk personality profiling because it's the easiest one to teach on mass and you can literally

teach people to read others in 45 to 60 seconds that's that's the personality types you're talking about when you yes yeah disc so um there's mice Briggs and wealth Dynamics like there's loads of other ones but disc is the easiest one in in their short amount of time like You can literally read somebody in 45 seconds probably even shorter than that which means if you if you believe that and you work in in those four personality types you arguably need four ways to say everything um which is easily done wouldn't you once you know those

those different types um so for me the there's two parts that are important yes the questions but the order of the questions so I'll give you The order first so I often say that we have to reflect before we project and if you want to help somebody find out problems and challenges they didn't even know they had then you need to get them to Look Backwards before they look forwards right because what people want is not what they need often most people will say to us we need some objection handling training that's not what they

need what they need is some Discovery Question training or some intro training or some framing training or some mindset training and you'd get all that right and you don't get the objections like what they want is often a plaster what they need is a proper diagnosis and some training for the root cause so we get them to look back and the way we do that is through what we call reflective questions so let's say we're at the start of an interaction maybe you've inquired pops Your details in um and you say yeah Ryan I just

want some sales coaching I'm like okay perfect so what does that look like for you oh I just I don't know I just need help with XYZ what you've done automatically is look forwards which means we are now focusing on product and that is a consumer behaviors that I always look forward because I don't want to go back to the paint like okay brilliant we can Get into those weeds in a second before we do that take me back take me back how long have you been following swish for now has it been a few

years or have you unheard of us recently that's one of my reflective questions you just learned that we've been going for a few years through my question does that make sense yeah so my aim is to remove limiting beliefs through my questions I remove objections through my questions not my Answers so so reflective question is have you been following us for a few years now or I only heard of us recently okay brilliant well um another reflective question might be we were pretty fortunate to go on the TV show shark tank in 2018 and when

the investors come on board they came with loads of different uh different um tips and advice but what about you is it just you that's running the business Or have you got a few different shareholders involved what you've learned is shot right I'm building credibility through my questions but I'm still back I'm still like reflecting so I go reflective questions then I go reality check questions okay so this is where you've been this is what you've done how is that playing out for you right now so based around the decisions that you made previously how's

that working out for You right now what does if you could score out of 10 where would you score yourself from a XYZ perspective you can't say seven and then I say you can't say seven and so they always say seven yeah they can't say seven now they have to go six or eight no one I don't think and I'll be challenged on this I'm sure to this day no one's ever said ten um and if they say six all right it doesn't matter what they say once they Finish their that they say six out

of ten you go what would get it to a ten so it could be it software it could be the solar installation they've got it could be the mindset coach that they've got okay how is that coach working out for you on a scale of one to ten don't say seven um six I would get it to a ten oh I need them to do this I need this as well and they Just give you all of their drivers and you go okay you then you bank that so the question was can you repeat the

question so yeah I'm happy on a scale of one's ten are you yeah yeah out of the services or whatever they've been having whatever it is yeah whatever yeah okay so you're asking because they want to get to a tin yeah so if they were a 10 they wouldn't be on the call yeah ultimately and if if they if they are a 10 I would literally Say and I've never had it but for me it would be so why are we on the call yeah yeah well and even if it was a cold outbound call

and you've reached them like so why are you still on the call then are you quite charismatic I appreciate it so be honest with me then now you know you can be cheeky be honest with me then are you really at a 10. is there anything you'd change about your current provider or whatever it is ah I don't know right so we've gone Reflective looking back reality check where they are right now and then we go opportunity questions which is looking forward so moving forward then if you could change a couple of those things how

does that look for you ideally um and then they'll hopefully give you the outline so they've gone past present future we've I hate this part about sales I will say this I never wanted to be one of those sales people that pushes people by people's Pain yeah I I I don't like it I still don't like it I would much rather paint rainbows and butterflies and and and just paint an amazing future that's not what moves people to action that is not what inspires people to take action unfortunately we are a lot more inclined over

90 more inclined to move away from pain than we are to move towards a potential pleasure yeah I'd rather stay in the discomfort that I'm in and be the victim because I know it if you didn't Pop your air mattress I you wouldn't have done it that that was the best thing that ever happened to me yeah like genuinely um but having said that I then chose to quit not dig my heels in it was only that I had the right people around me that wouldn't let me quit in the moment and that's also important

so we have to go through the sequence of questions of past present future to find pains and problems that they don't even Know they have just yet um and when we figured all of that out we then can go into the future and go well okay ideally then let's say we've fixed all of that where are we now in the next six 12 18 months so now we get them on a high and then we go to what we call cost of inaction questions so what if you don't do anything what are the ramifications of

staying As You Are if we Which is a great question because a lot of people get um delusional and they're like I want to have this like you know people go to an event or a seminar or watch a YouTube video and they're like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this but they're never actually question that because I wasn't on train last night and I was telling people I'm like I'm telling them right now I'm like I want you to write down all the things that that hurt you right Now like you needed you

need to create some pain why because when I go off this call you'll be hyped and excited but when you go make that next call or when that next person leaves your business you're going to remember all the reasons why you can't quit because if you're only thinking about the reasons why you're doing it I confuse my why my vision for so long I thought my why was because I want to live in Mexico I was like my why I just want to travel the World and have freedom and what I realized was that's the

pleasure that was my vision and it wasn't until I got clear I was like well my vision is living Mexico but why I need to do it is because I'm sick of sticking I'm not going to start it every day yeah and uh like I I put a I shot an I used to be a carpenter I shot a nail through my thumb one accidentally a grinder went through my arm one day accidentally like so I'd hurt myself at work sometimes I was like I don't want to do this I don't want to live a

life where I could like nearly kill myself at work like and these were the pains and it wasn't easy to look at because it's easy to avoid it so I love these questions when you can show people exactly here's what you could create if you decide to stop around pretty much but what if you don't and that that that's a really powerful question is right and and I will ask that question every single call where So the way I'll frame that is so Morgan like you said you've been doing this for you've been struggling with

this for the last 12 months okay so you probably knew how you felt three months ago three months before that six months before that so would it be fair to say you'll know how you're going to be failing feeling in three months six months and 12 months time if you continue as you are yeah where could you be If you did something so it's where will you be versus where could you be totally different a totally different question what's the difference in those two ones is is one's definitive and one's potential right so now because

that's in but you have to do it after you've gone through the pain you can't do that at the beginning they need to go through the pain first to appreciate the future because there needs to be that that Gap that disconnect of literally here I am Right now to there otherwise I'm just if I when I meet you when I speak to you for the first time I could be here but the reality is they're here but we haven't taken them back there first so their Gap is like there to there does that make sense

yeah so I need to take them on that journey to actually bring them to the realization that you're actually here compared to where you think you are you're just comfortable so that makes you feel like you're there so I need to help them find the why behind the why or the the why behind the Y is the reason not to and as you said the mission or impact there's an impact Beyond impact and and that that's that's for everybody the impact is not some people but not not very often is it money even from a

from a sales coaching perspective for us when we go one question I will always ask is like what are three non-negotiables at the end of this Partnership let's say we get 12 months down the line we've trained your team of 100 what will you have definitively needed to have seen for you to know that this was a worthwhile investment all right how are you you're sitting in a boardroom and you go swish was good hey let's go again and and I get them to write it down and we hold them accountable to it I would

say on a corporate level it's different on us with smes but on a corporate level less Than 20 would say sales um it's confidence it's uh Team culture it's cohesiveness it's less sick days it's people wanting to join the company it's you know what I mean so yeah we could assume that they just want to make more sales because we're a sales coaching company but when you ask the right questions you actually get a why and an impact Beyond um so so taking it away is important so just to refresh those four stages we've Gone

reflective questions looking back reality check questions looking in the present opportunity questions looking in the future then we do cost of inaction what if you don't do anything and then the final one before I then lead into whatever I'm going to present to them and ask for the business is partnership questions so and a partnership question is so taking all of that into consideration how are you choosing a provider of XYZ Not what do I have to do to get your business today not what would make you want to use is I'm still sitting on

the same side of the table as you I'm saying look there's loads of providers over there of solar how are you choosing which one oh I need to know it's Australia made I need to know they've got support here I need to know they've got all of this all that puts my mind at ease and that's all I say at the end yeah And then I'll lead into trial closing and all of that Chas yeah talk to us about closing what is your um I'll share my favorite closing question but I want to hear yours

first so when so let's say you've taken through the whole thing like this sounds great you're like cool well here's our offers and blah blah blah blah blah blah and then there's always like you have a Question and then you're meant to shut up all right what's your question what's your sort of process around that right at the end because this is where a lot of people choke right they can go through ask questions and then it really gets to the because like I've trained his feel of sales as well like for my old business

right and uh this is where so many people would struggle like I just it's hard to ask for money or ask for sale or how do you do it yeah it's Interesting guys Grant card on this on my podcast I was hesitate to uh top three I think his top one just for the record was have you seen enough to to make a decision that was his number one um and he actually started selling me a clipboard in the uh in the session so he's very American very very direct yes I think they they like

that more over there Americans more do expect it yeah I don't want to say they'd like to get sold but in a way compared to Australians yeah Australians almost like I do need this but you just sold to me yeah and and I will cut my nose off to spot my face and now not buy it yeah whereas Americans will just Americans kind of like I like that you know I'll take it yeah and and and I I know some really good sales coaches in the US and I've seen their content come over here and

doesn't work yeah um and even Andrew Banks one of our investors he's very good friends with Grant Cardone he has told us when we went over to the to the us we've got a few clients over there he's like you need to get your message more aggressive all right swish is not aggressive enough for the American audience and we've got lots of clients over there now but it does need to be a bit more direct they want guarantees they want to know Roi like they like fluffy stuff basically yeah and sorry trial closing Um so

firstly trial closing starts from the open we're always trial closing for me it's lots of micro closes all the way along and that can be as simple as um the tie downs I think the tie downs earlier so does that make sense are you following me all of those the obvious ones um but for me I'll get to a stage where I'll present an offer whatever it is um ideally we'll present three so we know that as go back to Consumer behaviors we Are conditioned to get three quotes on anything that's just the way we

make decisions right so I would never ever present one option because if I present one I create um an environment where you now need to go and validate so I push you to my market to the my competition so I want you to choose one of my three so I'm going to give you three options um and there's a great um study in America with three bottles Of wine that they did this where one was 35 one was 45 and one was 125 they put them in a restaurant over a weekend 85 of people chose

the 45 bottle line another one yeah the middle one they the following weekend they took the 35 bottle of wine they put 125 tag on it they put the 125 bottle of wine with a 35 tag on it same restaurant same wines 87 of people chose the middle one they surmise that we don't buy on value we don't buy on price we have something Called middle offering syndrome so a consumer it works with three or five options so anything outside of that gets a bit messy um so we will always put together three options um

and the first two prices are usually within 20 30 and then the other one's a bit higher because it creates comparison Theory yeah and it's so big for if anyone does buy it it's a really good day just take it so big so it's like it Makes the other ones not as and and some people say to me well and we did this with Mercedes right um You got a GLC 200 300 and AMG and they're like well they haven't got the budget for the AMG I might show them anyway show them where they could

be in the future because I might not wanted to spend 250 but I actually didn't want to spend 140 but it's better than 250 yeah does that make sense that makes no sense um so I'm big on as I'm leading into my trial close I've got my three options and my trial closes which one are you leaning towards yeah not which one's best not which one do you want which one are you leaning towards and then whichever one I don't care which one they choose because I'm only going to present three options that they definitely

need they're going to help them um it's not about just throwing stuff in there that they they can't even use Um and then whichever one they choose say they chose a I just asked them why and I get them to just sell themselves yeah why did you choose that why not why not be like I don't tell them which one they should use and then I'll go into um an IBO what I call the IBO which is so so what you're saying is you're leaning towards a would you agree then the idea of something makes

sense whatever it is Whatever you're offering does the ID you're gonna buy an idea before they buy a product does the idea of sales coaching make sense to you in some capacity okay and knowing your situation better than I do and you've been in your industry longer you know your family you know your business you know your staff like do you think they would benefit from whatever you've just put in front of them yeah Okay do you mind if I have no opinion so it's got IBO idea benefit opinion do you mind if I are

for an opinion do you mind if I float an idea past year can I make a very subtle recommendation so I get permission based closing as opposed to interruption-based closing and then if you've done everything right right you've got all your value builders in there you've got oh you're connected you've You've Got What I Call Rapport threading where I'm using reciprocity Questions talking about me to get information from you they know everything about me the company the product and by the time I get to the end like nobody ever says no you can't offer an

opinion so now I can say well based around what you've just said to me based around everything you've shared with me the last 45 minutes you should probably lean yourself towards this one and then that's where we have what we call an invisible Integrity line that we have to present the right option for them yeah and this is why I said Jordan Belford he can close deals he just used it for the wrong reasons and that's why when you master communication and sales it is influence it can be manipulation it can be convincing someone to

do things they don't want to do which is why it's so dangerous so anything that any coaching that we do we're just constantly Hammering home that invisible Integrity line because selling is easy and I'll say that really intently now selling is is so easy when you know what to do creating customers for life is what's hard because I could promise the world make a sale but if I don't deliver on the back end you ain't coming back and that's why so many companies go around in circles I love it man Um two of my two

of my favorite things doing and you sort of now at the end there you're like they close themselves that's always been my goal I'm like I just want to make this make sense for you because we're obviously on a call we're having a conversation because there's some type of issue if I can put something in front of you it's going to potentially solve the issue You can decide on that today right or like whatever right so I've always just got that in my mind I'm like I'm here to help solve a problem and if I

can legitimately solve a problem I'm going to show you the solution and if I can't I'm going to send you to probably one of my million connections I have that probably could solve my like if somebody comes to me like Keen train me in sales I could probably teach a thing or two but I'd Rather just send you to Ryan yeah he's the guy that does that right I'm like so I would not get to the end and be like yep close you on because like he said like then I'd have to fulfill on that

like where the do I even start yeah you know yeah but my one of my favorite things I asked them this I say at a one to ten how committed and serious are you to creating that reality so the vision they they make and this is what's always interesting Because people think you always want to get a 10 which I kind of do but I don't want them to tell me 10 from the start um so a lot of times people say lemon eight seven six even the worst thing around like say if you were

to think like someone who's like I really want it but I'm just not that motivator I'm a two but the worst thing you get I'm a two cool my question my question back is always that awesome why not Lower hmm and I'd sit and let them convince me why it actually should be higher and then if they're like if it's a two I've never had a two it's always a fives for the lowest why not lower well because you know I had been struggling this for years and these results haven't been getting them and this

and this is so you sure you're a five then no I'm actually probably close to like a nine why not Lower than a nine then and then after the conversations they get to a ten but part of that is mainly sort of getting them actually committed to change um but the best thing about that nearly every single time I get filled with that they're like actually like you've got me more committed to actually creating the change now so it's not just the sale and then a lot of time like I'm glad you said a 10

because I don't work with anyone who's less than 10 anyway yeah Which I also believe like especially with my higher stuff I don't want you to come into my Mastermind if you're a nine out of ten go away but then my final question I'll ask is um so what should we do from here yeah I love that one because I was like I don't know we got everything on the table now what do you want to do yeah and then I don't say anything and they're like well can I buy it yeah if that's what

you want to do sure let's do that and and This is the key right if you've I'm not gonna say you won't you won't get objections like there's always going to be objections and friction points but you can minimize it for sure you can soften it and the question that you're asking there is a cost of inaction question um and I I do one not based around the numbers but I'll ask them um it's I'll say it sounds like you're going all right Why even bother doing any of this then why don't you just leave

it why don't you just can't why don't you just carry on as you are um and it goes against everything that I was ever taught but that is where they sell themselves yeah the cost of an action stage of questioning is where you create urgency so if I I say Discovery is where so for context we've got a 10-step negotiation ladder we've spoke about prep we spoke About intro we touched on framing we're in discovery which is stage four that is where your Sailors won or lost in your questions the best sales people don't have

the best answers they have the best questions so your Discovery is one of uh is where sales are one are lost the cost of inaction within Discovery is where urgency is created and if you get all of that right you literally can go what do you want what's up to you you just sit and that's where you can sit in silence The old adage but most people get to the end they sit in silence everything else was crap beforehand and then the person just goes well leave it with me then and I'll get back to

you yeah and then they don't know what to do either then at that stage yeah um why do you think most people do suck at sales um or when I say suck have a fear around Sales uh I'll do the sucking first yeah cut that one up um because the sales manager is a crap it's not even training it's it's the mindset it's it's the pressure from above to just focus on outcome and just focus on sales and revenue and if your focus like we're as humans we're 70 water and 90 of our brain is

water we're just a water being and water follows the Path of least resistance right so we're going to try and get to the end goal as quickly as possible if the end goal is to make a sale you neglect all of the connection so we're just focusing on product and sales and I think that comes from pressure from management and then so the pressure's there right from day one and then there is not a proper onboarding there's not proper training there's no training that adapts to the Salesperson's personality type I coached a solo company years

ago um there was about 15 15 guys it was here on the Gold Coast I won't name who they were and I went into their office and the sales manager pulled me aside beforehand he goes um I've strategically sat everybody um and just so you know the guys on the far left the three don't spend too much time on them because we're letting them go next week anyway I'm like okay why let them go because oh they've been the worst performance for the last three months right we have a promotion relegation system if you're a

bottom for three months you gotta get let go I'm like all right cool and he goes and I'm gonna do a little segment just before you come out I watched this guy come out and he delivered a little training segment he was a high D dominant personality type results Focus money orientated all about the outcome These guys you get to see the glazed over right it was not hitting them at all at the end of the session I uh I pulled the manager aside and I said can I just spend an extra 15 minutes with

those three he's like I told you I'm letting them go just don't waste your time I was like that's all right don't pay me for it I'll just stay behind that 15 minutes with them they were if people know personality types they were s personality types they were Steady they were very people orientated can you break this can we quickly go into the disc yeah yeah yeah I'll do it yeah okay um so there's dominant influencer steady and conscientious yeah so you dominant people are very fast-paced very direct can be quite abrupt they can be

come across quite abrasive very results and outcome orientated right not really not really first about the process as long as we get the outcome that we we need We're happy um influencer personality types are also fast and direct but they're more people orientated so they're very social they're talkative they're outgoing maybe they don't have the best attention to detail right so from a sales perspective they sound great but their Administration is a nightmare on the back end they just want to tell everybody about the sales they've made yeah um this steady personality types Are slower

um and more methodical but they're people orientated as well so on the same side as the the eyes um they're a little bit resistant to change and if there is change they need to know they're doing it for the people not for the money that was the that's the S and then the C which is ironically what I am um conscientious I'm masquerading these days as an eye personality type but I'm actually a c so Very slow paced quite reserved introvert but task orientated so I like to get the job done I'm very process driven

everything has to make sense engineer so perfect for an engineer terrible for a public speaker um and everything can be learned but everything can be learned right um so these guys were which type so the the manager was a d yeah fast-paced direct and the three all three sales guys were an S personality type right so there was Just a disconnect that so the manager wasn't training them in a way that made sense to them they weren't hearing the message and he's like I don't get it all the other guys seem to get it I'm

like because you're not adapting your style as a coach which we have to do as a leader um so I had 15 minutes with them I basically Translate his message from the start of the session I delivered my session anyway which speaks to all Personality types in the room um they were the top three performers that following month wow literally that same month what what changed in them well like what specifically so like let's say because if I'm managing the d personality type it's like I'm imagining like Andy Elliot you know Andy oh Jesus yeah

yeah absolutely he's kind of funny to see actually he's he's created his own uh grid he's just Savage I think he's doing well I think it works for a Very particular person in America you come here to Australia he would he would win last week he'd get a small portion but yeah I don't think anyone really like him yeah him not him but the style right it's hard D so so if you've got something like cameras like results results direct you're gonna be like this take your shirt off right yeah I saw that one what

what's the what's the different style like how does the s personality approach to a similar sort Of thing differently like what how would we approach them as a coach as someone listening to this they're like I kind of relate to that person I'm more like that how do they treat um how they change their style of communicating like you did with these people that got them to have the best performance so so it wasn't about them changing how they communicate it was about them understanding why they were being told to do what they had to

do Right so it actually works before the sale and this is why mindset is so important in sales right we have three pillars of sales psychology um process and execution psychology is about getting your head right like you've got to be sold on your own products before you can sell anybody else on your product and they were being told that they need to make sales because this product had the biggest margin so the guys push this product That this is making the company money we've got these targets we've got new investors coming on board and

it was all money orientated it just didn't make sense it didn't make sense to them because they weren't that way inclined so when I asked them why are you here what do you want to achieve for you right maybe this maybe the product or service isn't what you actually 100 believe in but is it the right vehicle for you to be in at this Part of your journey and we just did some goal setting I literally just asked them why why are you here what do you want to achieve as a human being like who

do you want to be known as like what do you want people to say about you um I I'll give you a really clear example um a guy called Rob Hawks that used to work with me is now broke uh broke away he's now a sales trainer as well very um very Faith orientated he was training When he worked with us to become a pastor at glow Church actually all right um and he um he we have Ebbs and flows of salespeople and sat him down and and his next personality type the conversation was about

the more commissions he makes the greater impact he can have in the community right he can he tithes ten percent of his of the money that he has coming in so the conversation is not about making money the conversation is About impacting the community didn't even do any training around sales capability with these three guys just got under their skin around why should they do it within that vehicle that they're in does that make sense yeah absolutely um and and this is what I I never saw this coming right because I'm I always say at

the start of our event so I'm like I'm not Tony Robbins guys I don't want to be Tony Robbins I'm an engineer that is a practical sales coach So I don't like the fluff historically but what I've realized is that when we do I do goal setting on the first day of our boot camp for like two hours yeah even when we go into companies that if we do goal setting sales increase before you get to any sales capability training Clarity creates certainty yeah like I've just got a why I've got a reason too like

why would I focus on tonality and delivery and what order to ask my questions unless I've Got a reason to yeah because it's harder it's harder to master these skills than it is just to pick up the phone and read a script what personality type do you think I am you are a d i probably say so you know like I I am so familiar with every single person I type and archetype probably an ID actually ID but yeah I'm so familiar with every single thing you could you could imagine when it comes to profiling

people like I know How to profile people and know more about them in less than five minutes than they know about their entire life through a series of 18 questions but the disc one is one I've never actually looked into I don't know why I don't know so so people have like oh you're a high D or are there someone I don't know what the that actually is yeah yeah um but when you're explaining that I'm like d a little and then I yeah I'm I yeah yeah I'm like I'm Out the people I'm about

influence I'm about the end goal it's gonna be purposeful we're gonna do things about I like like the influence side of it and and yeah everything's a mess behind yeah yeah but but if you know that and this is why so I teach disc very different to when I got accredited like it's I've had people that are disc accredited for 20 years come and do my course and go I've never seen it like that before cool because I I like to think I make it real Like it's it's it's about sales interactions it's about human

interactions and and it's it it that that's a real scenario what you just said there right is that it's messy behind the scenes as chaos yeah so I know I would know that all right I would I would envisage that which is cool which means my expectations are that so then I don't get disappointed with certain things yeah um and and that's what I often say is that you're not Going to change for me and most people haven't studied personality profiling so my I never get disappointed in life with people because I adapt to them

I don't expect them to adapt to me and those people that are like I just don't get it I have this guy on the phone today and he was so direct all he cared about was how much was it I'm like why are you annoyed with that yeah like that that's the way they're wired like he was annoyed with you because you were trying To go deeper into a discovery so I'll give you a perfect example um and this is where because sometimes if I if usually for me if I if I'm ready to buy

something I'm not just inquiring I'm I'm ready you're the 10 bias yeah like well I'm just not gonna waste an hour on a sales call to be to be convinced uh like the other I got onto a call this week uh it was the only clock I remember in the last ages actually To look at doing a book deal the book publishing company because that's something I want to do in the future but I also knew I ain't buying today and because because it's not the money it's just that I ain't writing a book right

now yeah that's just straight up but I'm curious on the actual thing so we talked from us I said no intention by anything but I want to understand how this process works so we explained it all and I said well how much is it cool Makes sense hey look let's talk about literally about this time next year that's what I'm thinking of actually starting it's like yeah cool great great conversation I'll go back there and when I go back I'll say hey I want the 85 000 one yeah um but perfect example I try to

buy event tickets to an event I won't know the name here in Australia and uh that's my event was it no this could go wrong I was ready I was ready to buy right Because I got recommended by a few people I'm like yeah I'm Keen to go do this thing it hurts pretty good okay how much is it it's four grand okay cool whatever um so I you know you can't just buy it online as well you have to book in a call I'm like me like I'm a busy dude man booking a call

okay and puts in my calendar and then what happened was um we get we get on the first call okay And then I'm like I got not much time okay and then I'm like hey I I'm curious to know I want to get a ticket oh yeah yeah we've just got to explore it dude I just want to buy the ticket how do we buy the ticket let me book you another call without person right because obviously an appointment set up yeah I'm like this annoying dude like take my money yeah yeah I know take

my money but then they it up here we booked another called the Dude he rocks up he's 10 minutes late to my meeting right so I five minutes if I wait for five minutes something I'm off the call yeah I'm off he misses my EA he's like where's Morgan and she's like you're late so he's on to his next stuff now and then he's like oh what the hell like he couldn't just wait 10 minutes I was like dude send me the stripe link I'm in wow and I haven't gone to that event Still because

I'm like it's just so hard to do business with them but and this is it right so you've done the four buying archetypes like your buyers you're motivate to buyers tie kickers and legends through that sequence so like how do you spot a Thai kicker versus motivator how do you spot a Thai kicker language so they use absolutely language usually um so they're the ones that talk in absolutes and then the motivator buyers Talk in procrastinating language so there I'm a I'm a motivated to buy most of the time um in that my C personality

type adheres to being a motivator by like because I won't buy immediately I'm not an impulsive buyer um it doesn't matter how much I want it I will not buy in that first conversation it's just not the way I'm wired I I have to go and sleep on it but I've had so many people try and close me On that first call and they are right to because the product is right for me and I know that as well I just cannot fight my wiring so yeah I'm like I'm going to buy and I will

buy it tomorrow and then they do something like if you buy it today I'll give you 20 offer I'll give you that and I don't ruin it like you literally I promise I'll pay full price tomorrow and I will and I do but I have a Time convince her I I have to just for whatever reason well I know I know the Reason is the same actually I'm like this is cool let me just I need to go and think about it I'm not even sitting at home just like all right I'm thinking about it

I'm not thinking no one's thinking about you after they get off the call um they've got their own lives to leave like who's arrogant enough to think people are thinking about them um it's just time I just need that bit of time I do need and you said it Earlier right help people make sense there's three types of sales people the teller just tell people how great they are they give her they just give information never ask for the business and the sense maker um and our job I believe is to help people make sense

of whatever they're purchasing um for me I need a little bit more of of sense being made yeah I need yeah I need an email I need some bullet Points I need some specifications I need to see the road map and the timeline and the deliverables that's just the way so if I was closing you I would I would know you're an engineer or the way you think and I would actually have the intention I'm like I'm not gonna close them today but I'm going to send him every single piece of information data point for

him to make his own decision because he will and you're going to use language I could say that will close you No yeah no and and I'll my I will get less sold the more you go on and I also as a c personality type the fluffier you get yeah the less I believe so you say come to my event right it's gonna absolutely change your life you've never seen your lives before I'm like I'm out you you had me at structured goal setting like I was in for that like for me so if I've

got a D this is this is I don't talk about some podcasts I say with my Elite class but I'll tell I'll Tell you so um for a d personality type I'll be saying well let's get the ball rolling and then get the results that you're looking for yeah that's my clothes for an eye I'm like this is where the fun stars come join the Swiss Family right that's how I literally close an eye with an S with an S personality type I'm like do you mind if I just recap everything so we make sure

we leave no stone unturned I don't want there to be any surprises here that's How I close an S and then with the c personality type it's the process from here is really simple I'm going to outline everything in an email so it's really clear for you and then we can make an educated decision with every single bit of the information is that all right and I asked for permission for the bottom two I tell the top two so dni I tell CNS I I ask yeah yeah so like and you've got to be quick

right in that moment who have I got where are they Yeah it's uh oh man we've definitely go to a round two because I know we've actually gone way longer than for like one of the longest podcasts we've done oh really um and I knew that but I was like nah this is Juicy so let's do a round two I really want to do because this is so fascinating just on unpacking influence and communication of like how the brain works and personalities I could talk About this that's why I want to write a whole book

on it yeah like literally like how to manipulate others and manipulate yourself right it's a bit of a it'll be a clickbait book but uh because it's just it's it's it's so good so it can change your life my my I actually had I've got a girl that's flying back from the UK at the moment um so she came here she was here for six months she went back for two months she Wasn't sure if she's gonna come back in the end I booked her flights for her to come back on Monday she's coming back

in two weeks time and as I said I said here's my credit card details right to come and work for me I said you ready we're gonna book it we'll just chat on messenger I said this is a sliding doors moment for you right now right your this could change the whole trajectory she's 26 years old of your life um and for me that happened to me I had That sliding doors moment and and it was and I look back now and everything comes back to communication right you want to pay rise you want to

get your kids been to bed earlier you want to get a new job everything comes down to how you say the words that leave your mouth um and it can change your life like without getting too fluffy it actually can yeah I love this dude um I've even got other things I wanted To ask you so we've definitely do a round two so where can everybody find you and get access to all your training come check out everything you guys are doing um I'm pretty accessible across all the socials LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Instagram's probably more

babies and dogs um and then uh swish salescoaching.com is the website beautiful uh dude to wrap this up we got a final question if you were to go back to your 18 year Old self and give him 30 seconds of advice what would it be I was in Greece standing in in a bar like I worked in lived in Greece for six months um it would be it's gonna sound really cliche but just learn to talk better ironically learn to communicate because it would have accelerated absolutely everything get out your own way thank you so

much for listening and if you got value from this episode it goes Such a long way you can just take 20 seconds of your time leave me a five star rating and written review then screenshot this episode and share it to your story and make sure you tag me for that shout out and until next time guys go out there and Dream Out Loud [Music]