Bitcoin Could Hit $1 Million This Cycle | Jack Mallers

It's a free market it's honest it's integral and at the end of the day you can try and fight natural human behavior all you want you land we all land in the same place we all land on hard money Integrity ethics morality Global Love Freedom those are all things Bitcoin represent so you can walk your little death spiral all the way come to Daddy come to Daddy so I think it's just funny when people always ask me am I a Bitcoin Maximalist I always tell them here we go what's up guys bang bang today's episode

is with Jack MERS the founder and CEO of strike in this conversation we talk about the macro environment The Edge case and the use case and the investment case for Bitcoin how he thinks about Bitcoin vers shitcoins what he thinks about politics where regulation is going and why he believes that ultimately Wall Street will capitulate and they will all become bitcoiners I really enjoyed this Conversation I learned a ton jack is always in top form and this one is no different so here's my conversation with Jack MERS all right guys Bang bang I've got Jack

here uh maybe let's just start with the easy stuff um what's going on in the macro environment why do all these people on Wall Street want to buy Bitcoin like is the Legacy system broken uh I think so I think we're probably nearing the end of the geopolitical setup that we have Today my favorite way to think about it is through Global debt to GDP so I think of money as our time and energy in an abstracted form what I mean by that is you do this podcast and exchange for this podcast you get money

right I work on strike in exchange for that I get money so my Collective contributions to society and what I wake up and do every day I get money so money is an abstraction of our time and energy I think governments being able to borrow Cur their own currency is as close to time travel as we've ever come to and what I here's why I mean what I mean by that is that I'm effectively allowed to borrow the time and energy from the future right so if money is are extracted time and energy and as

a government I have my own currency that I can borrow against that means I'm borrowing time and energy from the future and so when I look at Global debt to GDP at something well over 300% that means that they've borrowed a lot of time and energy from our future with no growth to pay it back and that's a huge problem and that loss has to be realized and I'm not a macroeconomist I don't have a college degree that's as simple as I think about it I think it's helpful to think about money in the form

of time and energy because then it becomes real people are always like well why don't you carry the debt forward why don't you print the money it's like well No no no it's not a piece of paper it's all of our time energy our contributions to this world all of our lives and so who's going to realize that loss if we're entering the future with a hole in our balance sheet of time and energy whose time and energy is going to pay that back and I think they have two options either they can let the

banking system fail the bond market fail and that's whose time and energy will be making us all whole well so Jamie Diamond's time in energy all the bond holders time and energy all the banking systems time and energy or they have to debase the currency and take the time and energy of the collective populace and everyone the market is now starting to lean towards the fact that they're going to weaken the currency to make whole on the time and energy they borrowed that they can't pay back so that is how I think about it that

is why I think it's terrifying as An investor and then that's why I think Bitcoin is the best thing you can own so let's say they're going to debase the currency which I think a lot of people agree with that uh maybe people debate how fast they're going to do it how catastrophic could they make it um but what's interesting is that people now are running out of the dollar uh kind of in a systematic way but they're buying stocks they're buying real estate um they're buying Bitcoin they're buying Gold like there's many things that

they can buy to get out of it and each one of those assets is denominated in dollars so on a nominal basis if you buy a stock that's worth $100 today and you sell it later for 120 you quotequote made money right in each asset why Bitcoin over those other assets do you think specifically now Wall Street right and kind of the the traditional Finance World why are they buying it is it just it's new to them and they have access to The ETFs or is there something else driving it no I think it's the

best expression of Fiat debasement um it is is the antithesis of fiat currency it has no Central Bank it has no government its monetary policy is fixed its Supply is capped it's everything that Fiat isn't and so if your problem is Fiat to basement then it's best expressed through Bitcoin so you're taking the opposite it's a put option on the existing system it's longv right like I Don't know I'm talking Trader speak but that's what you want and traditionally you try and find that through something right gold here's this collection of chemicals that kind of

gets me close real estate in theory they can't print any more land does that mean they can't print any more real estate no of course I mean I'm sitting here in [ __ ] New York City they could build pretty high buildings but like I don't know I'm kind of close Bitcoin is the only instrument In your portfolio that we humans created to solve this exact problem everyone has their own inter interpretation of the white paper but I mean come on give me a break so Toshi right after 0809 created it and said Central Bankers

I can't trust them and so this is the best expression of the problem at and so and in more plain speak what that means is that it goes up the most so for those that you know need to put two and two together that means it's going to be The most performant so why does Wall Street want want it I have been more performant than Ken Griffin for 10 years that's why they want it people aren't stupid right you either have to work 10 times as hard to outperform a Bitcoin holder or you just own

Bitcoin but does that mean that you're not going to outperform Ken Griffin for the next 10 years it depends if he owns Bitcoin then no uh but even let's say he doesn't buy Bitcoin right if the contrarian Trade led to the a symmetry like basically I think of it as like the risk you take is the return that you should get in return right and so uh to buy Bitcoin in 2015 or even 20120 frankly uh was high risk in most people's eyes and so you got this insane return um compared to historical you know

asset price returns today it feels more consensus and so let's just use Easy numbers let's say it was compounding at 100% a year you know for a decade or Whatever uh going forward I think most people would say it'll be lower but the question becomes is that like 10% a year 50% a year if it's 75% a year sure it's down from 100 but 75% a year compound growth rates still pretty damn attractive compared to almost any other asset in the world yeah I'm not I call [ __ ] um I think we're still so

early in the Bitcoin story I don't see I'm public on record saying I think Bitcoin hits 250 to a million in this cycle so Now I'm speaking the next like 10 to 18 months and that's not what did you say 70% I mean that's a lot of percent so why do you think it's going to go up so fast so High um because so I think it's the best expression of currency to basement I think it's the best expression of the problem at hand right so it's a mirror bitcoin's a mirror I look in the

mirror what do I see some ugly [ __ ] up [ __ ] that's why and so I think it's going to reflect the issues And that's the reason Wall Street wants all these ETFs too is Bitcoin is the only free market in the world it's the only like pure human it's volatile it reacts to the world we actually live in it makes moves it makes noise it makes stories it makes headlines and that's life and that's why they want that I mean banks are making money on these ETFs they're not making money owning bonds

and so I think for all of those reasons it will directly reflect the World that we're living in today and I think that world very very banged up I think central banks have gone through progressively trying to fix price fix markets to keep everything together and what Market is up next the all mother of all markets the bond market the sovereign debt market and so how much money is that we're looking at the the dollar Yen swap line that just opened how if if PE if the US government if the treasury is going to be

giving unlimited Dollars to Japan and China to protect their currencies you're going to get two three CO's in this cycle as far as stimulus and printing people are too fixated on the cost of capital as far as rates they need to be more fixated on the amount of capital which is they're still printing dollars it doesn't matter that rates are at 5 and a half percent it's still inflationary and so for those reasons I think how am I supposed to predict the the most fixed asset in the History of mankind against the biggest [ __

] up problem that central banks have ever had to try and solve I don't I mean come on 250 to a million I feel super confident about that so I'll agree with some of it I'll disagree with some of it which is the banks are definitely making money on Bonds on 5 and a half% rates I think over a longer period of time the depreciation of like the value of the bond is going down so if you look at like TLT it's down you know whatever 20% over the last five years or something so I

think that what becomes interesting is some of the banks or maybe use like the stable coin issuers like they're they're probably the better example so they're buying treasuries and they're basically rotating through them right and they're driving I think the numbers for tether are like a billion dollars a quarter or something right so like that when people evaluate it they're like oh my God look at this Cash flow this is amazing what I think your arguing is yes but you're getting it in a depreciating fiat currency so unless you convert it to something else actually

you may be better off just buying Bitcoin and holding it for the long term yeah but your real return so you know just dissecting what you said a little bit um Banks right now are making a lot of money on whatever they're getting five and a quarter 5 and a half back but they're not going to go lend Real money to real businesses right now so the value the actual denominated value of the bonds are getting absolutely obliterated and that's putting their their balance sheet underwater their functionally insolvent so they aren't actually stimulating the economy

so right now Banks there's like3 trillion dollar of banking reserves on the fed's balance sheet and they're just collecting if I'm a bank executive I'm not doing jack [ __ ] all I'm going to Just sit on my hands never lend any real money and just collect payment right well because also they they have the benefit because of the accounting rules where they don't have to Mark the bond to Market so even though they're losing if you think of it's like the capital value right Enterprise Value is being destroyed uh they get a market is

just at cost and then they're getting the cash flow so it it look makes them look much better than it actually is correct But this is unsustainable economic activity and so to me that doesn't count like the US government part loves tether hates tether they hate tether because they don't love fully Reserve systems that just take advantage of rates like they're willing to give you these rates in these counting tricks so that you play the game mhm and so Diamond's playing the game and like that business is screwed because you're also not getting the growth

that the government Is producing with the capital you're lending them they're not paying you the full growth of the economy the economy is growing 10% or whatever they're paying you five it's like well I'm going to go put my Capital to where it I can realize the growth that's actually happening in something like Bitcoin why would I lend you the money you're giving me half you know you should only be spending on things that you can afford through my taxes and you're debasing the Currency so you want to debase the currency tax the living [

__ ] out of me and not pay me in full when I lend you money M [ __ ] off and so that that there and lies the problem here comes this industry where like these guys Traders want volatility Traders want life there's natural entropy in the universe and central banks try and control it and suffocate it and here comes a totally independent Market that has every it feel you feel alive being part of this Industry and so yeah that's why I think banks and Wall Street wants to be in the business of so they're

like strike they're in the business of financial services in the space and then why would you want to own it is because it's in the direct reflection of all the problems it's taking the other side of the fact that governments have borrowed so much from our future with no way to pay it back owning Bitcoin to me is saying I don't know how you guys are Going to solve this one but it's not going to be my time and energy and that's a very popular vote the fact that you can cast that from your phone

by downloading an app like strike I mean who wouldn't do that I agree uh I don't agree that bitcoin's going to go to a million dollars a cycle so$ 250 to a million and and the reason that's a large Delta but you're that's why I'm laughing yeah but but people it's like how do you how do you price predict a Piece of paper that you know is being debased aggressively um so but I don't even think 250 I mean barring some event that we don't see I think one of the pieces that I keep coming

back to and I could be wrong on this right but but uh I've been thinking about two different components as to like the price will go up right obviously I'm excited about that I'm incentivized for that to happen but um one we have a new type of holder five years ago you me and everybody else Like we we're idiots we just buy Bitcoin hold it literally there was nothing you could do to convince us to sell it yeah Wall Street buys the ETF they're even buying real Bitcoin right they buy the ETF if they put

1% allocation in it doubles they're going to sell half cuz they're going to rebalance right like that's just their whole game is basically just like do this rebalance game all stuff so like as the price increases again it's a variable we don't Know how much cell pressure that is but it's a new type of cell pressure that previously wasn't there because Bitcoin has never rebalanced so you get like weird Dynamics where like as you add in these people who are basically uh I'll say it lovingly like nerds sure and they have all these like portfolio

theories and rebalancing and like all this stuff it's just not the like hardcore bitcoiner who buys s and like that illiquid market every net new dollar has Such upward movement I so I just think that that's over complicating something super simple when I say 250 to a million I'm effectively saying bitcoin's mispriced and so if someone who's an ETF holder is going to constantly rebalance their portfolio I still think it's mispriced I think that that's going to be met with market demand and that market demand is then going to say hey thanks for your ETF

flow I'm going to take it into physical Bitcoins on my Cold card at home so I I think that why is it mispriced like how do you think about where it should be priced today um against the the debasement that's upcoming is what I think so I think forward looking to the debasement correct yeah so I think you know I don't think that bitcoin's price as a reflection of the upcoming debasement it's dependent on how some asset manager plans on rebalancing right it's it's the you know same as like you know if asset Managers rebalanced

Lamborghinis then like they'd actually be worth 50 Grand instead of 200 Grand no they're worth 200 Grand because people are willing to pay 200 grand for them so I think people would be willing to pay $250,000 for a Bitcoin based on the mess that I think I mean there's a massive hole in there's a loss that has to be realized that loss is going to come through debasing the currency asset prices are going to go up and what is the best asset and the most Performing asset what's the best money in human history and so

I think that has to be accurately priced and doesn't really matter what some guy on Wall Street thinks in regard to his own portfolio it's his loss if he sells it now let's take a step further which you understand probably better than most in terms of the uh world of trading uh what happens when you could short the ETFs right will people step in like you introduce derivative you start to Introduce these things that in markets historically it has dampened volatility because now people can go both directions um we don't even know will they get

approved you know are they coming in the next six months or whatever right but like at some point you have to assume that we will see those uh vehicles I think people have now at least put an applications for like 2x you know levered long Bitcoin I'm sure people come you know the other Way whatever does that play into also changing the price Dynamics no I I think the more financial products the better because what we want is true price Discovery the the problem like the idea that derivatives can suffocate Bitcoin and manipulate the spot

is demons that people feel from gold gold naturally centralizes right like gold holders all don't have a cold card in their room with their physical gold on it they can't take a physical instrument like Gold and put it in their brain like they can with Bitcoin and so I mean the fiscal Bitcoin on exchanges right now is at an all-time low but the supply goes up every single day and so that means that more Bitcoin is held with the individual That's The Logical conclusion so the idea that Bitcoin would fall victim to concentration and manipulation

through derivatives I think is a fallacy and it actually goes to Satoshi launching a Bottoms Up movement Satoshi Did not go to Goldman Sachs and say I would like to list this thing publicly and I'd like you guys to own 25% of it he put it on a mailing list he walked away and for that reason it'd be nearly impossible for someone to own a concentrated amount of this asset class in my opinion I mean sailor is on a war path and he barely eclipsing 1% is anyone ever going to own 40 50% of Bitcoin

no so do you think it's a problem that he owns 1% no I mean it Would be if it was ethereum uh with proof of stake right uh but no his ownership over the physical Bitcoins has no influence over the consensus rules the protocol the monetary policy that's the whole point sailor Trump I have the same influence over Bitcoin by running a node and it's effectively no influence if I want to change it but it's all the influence if I want to verify and be a part of it in a self- sovereign way so I

don't I don't I think derivative Products just enhance and increase price Discovery what we want is accurate Discovery highly liquid markets for something that's as free in global as Bitcoin so it's great I mean we should have a way more like robust options Market in Bitcoin I think all these things are phenomenal but no don't take Gold's shortcomings and put them on bitcoin I mean Bitcoin doesn't concentrate like gold does that's a problem with I mean Gold's a deadbeat Commodity it's not a competitor in my opinion I do enjoy the gold bugs when it goes

up like 5% it's like $25 and they take a victory always cracks me up like new alltime high like you made $25 yeah like there's a I mean there's a reason the same thing that is in theory being manipulated by derivative markets and you know uh the CME and all these big exchanges shorting Gold without having physical that's the same thing that was concentrated enough for the US Government to create Fiat if gold was good enough I wouldn't be born into the dollar system we are today so you know part of my childhood being [

__ ] up and being based in Conant American war is the fact that gold wasn't sufficient enough to solve The World's monetary problems so don't don't give me a history lesson on gold I mean it's the reason sji built a better one you know it's just so I don't think that these are problems at all and I think the fact That Larry Fink is a bitcoiner and Jamie Diamond whether he wants to admit it or not is a bitcoiner um according to his revenues and growth and activity and reports um that's a good thing for

you know everything's good for Bitcoin right that's what I I I think wholeheartedly every single thing is good for Bitcoin is an ethereum ETF good for Bitcoin sure I I mean I think it's more funny than it is good I think it's so funny that I mean let's like walk through the game Theory flywheel of uh we're rapidly debasing the currency that's causing inflation so we're going now 2020 covid we're debasing the currency we have rates at zero that's causing in inflation inflation causes us to rise rates faster than we've ever risen them before that

causes bonds to fall that causes Banks to become insolvent which causes the the market Wall Street Banks like where can we find some activity where can we find some Life which causes all of a sudden and a fear for future debasement which causes Bitcoin ETF approval which causes them to have the most successful Financial product they've ever had which causes them to go you know what gendler you're not in charge any more I'm in charge how many of these pieces of [ __ ] do they want ETFs for we're accepting all of them so all

of a sudden you go Diamond going from a Bitcoin skeptic to a cheerleader and now you've got both Political parties supporting Bitcoin you've got Wall Street supporting Bitcoin you've got jimie Diamond's lip service bad boy Diamond he's supporting Bitcoin and that's the game theory of what I think is something that's just so pure human it's a free market it's honest it's integral and that is what at the end of the day you can try and fight natural human behavior all you want you land we all land in the same place we all land on hard

money Integrity ethics Morality Global Love Freedom those are all things Bitcoin represents so you can walk your little death spiral all the way come to Daddy come to Daddy so I think it's just funny I I don't think it's good bad it's for my business it's a distraction I don't give a [ __ ] but it's I think it's comical so when people always ask me am I a Bitcoin maximalist I always tell them here we go I'm a Bitcoin maximalist in the sense that monetary assets end in maximalism right So if you live in

the United States you're a dollar maximalist you get paid in dollars you save in dollars you buy Assets in dollars you pay your taxes in dollars Etc um but you're not a maximalist in the sense of Google Facebook stock oil real estate whatever right um in crypto I do think that there's a lot of people that call themselves Bitcoin maximalist and it's not just like I think Bitcoin is the best money and Will'll be the winner in the money it's and everything else will die with the what appears to be the ETF approval for ethereum

that's incoming here in a day or so um it feels like those that subset of Bitcoin maximalist are going to have a hard time saying everything else is going to be a zero or everything else is a security Etc I don't think we have enough information maybe you have a different opinion but I don't think have enough information to say what is Actually going to happen there but like the game changed in the last week or so and so how do you think about like what is Bitcoin maximalism today is it does it change to

like hey Bitcoin is the winner in money and like you said like everything else is just a distraction but not necessarily take a position on like is it going to have value in the future or not or like like how do you evaluate that okay today's episode is brought to you by meanwhile meanwhile is The world's first licensed and regulated life insurance company built for the Bitcoin economy operating on the Bitcoin standard they do everything in Bitcoin you pay in Bitcoin they pay claims to your family Bitcoin you take out policy loans entirely in Bitcoin

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world's first Bitcoin life insurer again that's Meanwhile. BM go check them out today big question so allow me to take one quick step back like what is money money is the market good in the economy that you buy not to consume you buy to exchange later or to save so it's I take my time and energy I uh mol lawns I run a podcast I run companies I make burgers and I take that time and energy and I exchange it for money and then I either save that money or I exchange that money later that's

very different than a Market good in the economy that is a cheeseburger because I don't buy the cheeseburger to save it or to exchange it for something later I buy it to consume it okay money tends to concentrate a natural market wants one money right we don't want all of our time and energy being priced in various different goods and services the point of a money is so that we can all understand and how to value our Collective time and energy and price of Goods and services that we have in the economy so I think

what a Bitcoin maximalist believes is that Bitcoin is the best money it's the best tool in technology to solve that particular problem well then what is ethereum what is Solano what is Dogecoin I make the argument that they're Technologies ethereum very clearly made that point with the Dow hack ethereum had developers get hacked they could have said the monetary policy is the monetary Policy code is law all that [ __ ] that they were saying back in the day they didn't they changed it why did they do that they wanted to appeal to the developers

to the growth to the uh computer decentralized computer for the world okay so a technology is a market good in the economy that you consume when I um using Facebook I'm I'm consuming Facebook I'm not using Facebook as money real estate whatever you said art Fine Art I'm consuming the Art it goes on my wall so I just don't find them directly competitive at all and so I think a Bitcoin maximalist is saying Bitcoin is money it's the best money we believe there should be one money all these other things aren't money now do I

have a problem with Technologies and securities No in fact I'm the founder of strike I own a lot of a valuable security and we build technology so of course I'm not against that what I'm against or what bothers me Is the intentional conflation ethereum was founded to be the better Bitcoin and it often rides the Cod tailes of Bitcoin and it often conflates itself with Bitcoin story and a lot of these things it's the faster Bitcoin the nimbler Bitcoin the lighter Bitcoin lightcoin I think that that's a losing strategy for ethereum in the like even

in a story standpoint right so it's confusing which I think is upsetting to people in Bitcoin but um there's not very many Products who are not the first mover and do not have technical superiority that end up actually surpassing the first mover or the thing with technical superiority so if you kind of think about like um Uber and Lyft right Lyft no matter how hard they try it's just that they're not going to pass Uber right barring some external event or whatever and so if I was like in charge of ethereum marketing for the day

I think attaching To bitcoin is actually guaranteeing loss but that's what so what I I think where I don't think they think that I think they actually think tying themselves to bitcoin to some degree like ultrasound money all this stuff right it's a winning strategy well but I so I I call these things an Arbitrage on the trend so an Arbitrage trade can the camera see this this is a spin drift uh sparkling water um an Arbitrage trade would be the one in my Left hand is a dollar the one in my right hand is

$10 I can buy the one in my left all day at a buck sell on my right at 10 and I'm netting nine all day that's an Arbitrage that's not a business that's not a movement that's not an innovation that's a trade I consider these things in Arbitrage on the trend what's the trend you have an independent Financial system that is a reflection of the problems in the financial system we have today it's a New movement it's Freedom it's Global it's all this stuff and I'm finding a less legally accountable way to be like a

central bank and ARB that movement I'm basically monetizing the fact that there's a lot of people that are exiting the financial system want something more fair and new don't totally understand what the [ __ ] is going on and what's the difference between ethereum and Bitcoin but it's it's it's it acts as a free market but it's not it has a Founder it Makes business-like decisions why it go from proof of work to proof of stake why did it uh Fork and Rewind transactions in the Dow hack so I think something that has a Founder

that has direction that has outside influence that has a road map that makes politically driven decisions there's no problem with that but that's a company that's more like strike than it is Bitcoin but I think they want to be thought of as a commodity and as a freeer market because They get when Bitcoin goes up ethereum goes up right it's an index basket of this independent different Financial system and that's the only real issue and I I mean to be honest like I don't really give a [ __ ] about shitcoins to be totally candid

like they don't it's it it is what it is I'm I'm much more free market I don't advocate for gendler to do anything really but that's the problem I think that if I were to speak on behalf of maximalism is is you know There is this one thing that we think does a phenomenal job at money which is the most important technology in human history I mean without money we'd be bartering like you know you'd say you'd go to Whole Foods and say hey guys I recorded a podcast today I'll take two stakes they'd be

like what the [ __ ] I don't give I don't value your podcast at all but value the money you got for the podcast so it allows all of us humans to hypers specialize and be amazing at Little things and grow an economy to 8 billion people money's that important and we think we came across the best one ever which should allow us to enter one of the most flourishing chapters of human history and then you have someone who creates something in their basement that's intentionally conflating it with the general public to take advantage of

a momentous opportunity for our species and that's where it's like yo if you guys want to create Technologies and Print money and stuff I'd find it incredibly unethical but like get out of my way and and that's like the issue I have with these things um and I the one last point I'll say is that for the people that say well you know if they weren't worth anything uh then if they had no value they'd be worth zero right the fact that ethereum has value I I I don't think that uh it necess has to

be worth zero I think that um maybe the best argument for the Bitcoin Community to make is like Bitcoin eth you know kind of like pair continues to fall yeah and so it's like it's less about the aggregate dollar amount as much as it is like the trend and so far like I'm actually not very bullish on ethereum at all yeah it's falling but I would argue that the use case of building on top of all these Technologies these applications like it it it's easy to see that people are going to use this stuff whether

we Thought they showed it or not um and then you look at things like stable coins Etc right and so really what I think I get at is like are the other use cases in crypto going to be bigger than the gold use case like the Bitcoin use case and if you look to the traditional market Facebook Google Amazon all these guys are way bigger than the gold market the promise of the digital version of gold is more globally accessible right it's got you know all these components To it um and so if you strip

away all the [ __ ] of like all these tribes arguing with each other it's like all right today Bitcoin is I don't know and a half or something total crypto markets like 2.6 2.7 trillion so Bitcoin is the dominant more than 50% um 10 years from now not because they go launch literally 10,000 coins a day right but like is Bitcoin able to grow big enough and outpace these other things or should we actually expect Bitcoin will continue to Grow and maybe it's worth a 100 trillion in the future but these other things just

by the nature of what they do will end up being bigger uh as a total market cap yeah well I to to two answers to that one is gold is is defective money it's money that isn't good at being money because we have dollars and pounds if it was good at being money it would remained money so it's like a defunct defective not so great money that has a market cap of what 12 trillion or Whatever that number is if you want to compare Bitcoin to money what's the size of capital markets overall so currency

markets uh uh markets uh valued in currency cash flows real estate gold precious metals I mean that's like hundreds of trillions of dollars that's where I think bitcoin's on its way to comparing it to a defunct money that isn't that good at being money versus something that wants to be the king of money I think is like a bad Comparison so I think Bitcoin has the biggest target audience it has the biggest opportunity set by a long mile the problem with saying something like ethereum is like Facebook is Facebook is valued based on its cash

flow based on its business assets ethereum's valued based on this thing that is supposedly supposed to be a commodity but like changes all the time right like how how am I supposed to Value it so if I like what what is what am I looking at yeah So I disagree with the ethereum folks on this but I was Rec talking to somebody and they were like oh it has cash flow so they're going to be able to model because they're to look at the staking or or transaction fees or whatever and I actually do think

that Wall Street is going to do that that's not how I would evaluate it cuz I don't think it's cash flow in the same sense sense but I do think that in a weird way these Assets Now are going to get like you know it's Like the the square trying to fit in the in the round hole right is wall Street's going to look at these assets and they're going to be like okay well is it undervalued or overvalued and I've always said to people like Bitcoin as an example the transaction fees are a great

way to look at what is the quotequote cash flow of the system if you just centralized Bitcoin and you could look at what are all the miners making like that would be the revenue and it would Be pretty impressive right but I think so kind of I I think Bitcoin isn't technology in the sense that it isn't optimizing for cash flows like everyone can be sitting on their Bitcoin holding it in their basement it's a perfectly fine use for money you don't have to spend your money you can save your money and hodling bitcoin's fine

well you can save your Bitcoin right but um can't save your Fiat of course not um but if if ethereum is a technology and Bitcoin Is money and you want to have distributed technology why do we need an actual monetary instrument in that system in the first place right if it is into money my point is if we want to distributed I don't know what's your favorite defi use case they all [ __ ] stupid distributed um medical well fine everyone runs their own medical note at home and will use Bitcoin as the money to

talk between the distributed Network right why do I need the problem with Shitcoins is the first step they go I I changed the world I created this new technology that advanced Humanity I go really wow what's the first step buy my shitcoin I was like what hold on the the moment that you create your own money you know what Satoshi did created it gave it away walked away mhm you want to be like Bitcoin invent it give it away walk away so so you want to be like a shitcoin invent it sell it hoard it

and continue to change the rules that Benefit you okay so so like let's go let's one huge problem though St if ethereum was like you know what we're not going to have an actual ethereum token anymore we're going to have this defi infrastructure but Bitcoin is digital money so we'll just use the actual money that we have then I'd say fine I now I would say the technology dog [ __ ] I'd rather use AWS no but I'm being serious I'm not trying to make anyone laugh it's like think about it AWS is faster cheaper

everything about it is better right so so this is where you get into the arbitraging of the trend where they've kind of nestled themselves in into a a less legally accountable way to print their own money so it's like I changed the world oh really man how can I how can my life benefit buy my shitcoin like so hold on but let's take let's go down that step further because I think what we've started to see is there was a cat and Mouse game between regulators and the people doing all these blockchains and coins and

stuff right so one of the things that I've seen people do recently is uh they create usually not even technology like a coin they quotequote Fair launch it meaning they don't keep any for themselves they put it all out there anyone can go buy it they obviously buy some right um but they buy on the free market at the price whatever uh and then they end up just being meme Coins like they're not even Building Technology they're not they're not doing whatever uh you could argue that it's the equivalent of sports gambling or whatever nonsense

but this mechanism of uh oh The Regulators actually looked at what you just said too and they're like hey wait a second if you create a coin you hold some for yourself and then the price goes up because the [ __ ] you're doing that sounds a lot like a security right yeah and they have a lot of Questions there um so the quotequote entrepreneur and I'll put that in quotes because you know if you just launched the meme coin I don't know if you get it put on your LinkedIn you're an entrepreneur but um

when they launch them they essentially are trying to accommodate for this regulation thing but they are changing the mechanisms and so what is the critique I guess of like that part of the industry where now it's not like I'm going to enrich myself it's almost like a I'm going to create this game which anyone who's rational looks at and is like this is not a long-term sustainable game yeah I mean the critique is it's still like highly unethical so uh let me think of a the analogy that comes to mind is like fentanyl is is

that like you know people can do what they want but if you're lacing someone's drugs with something that's going to kill them then I find That highly unethical and unfair right you people do what they want they if we're in such a chapter where currency debasement is causing everyone to be a Speculator everyone's just starved for an opportunity to persist wealth and achieve a lifestyle that they actually want that they're buying [ __ ] like GameStop and Dogecoin that's unfortunate and I just find that like you know we have something like Bitcoin and but you're

like you know loging the Robin Hood and Robin Hood's laced with a bunch of fentanyl that's how I like to think about it and so then the question is well you know if fentanyl was that lethal no one would take it so free market right well people are lacing the like real medicine with [ __ ] Fentanyl and murdering people and so that my my thing is like in that sense I just find it highly unethical is that someone's like wow I understand I can't save in dollars wow I understand that there's an Independent Financial

system and they log into an app that claims to serve that and they're getting laced with something lethal so um how long would the data have to persist where the shitcoins outperformed Bitcoin where where you would change your mind and I and I'll give use a direct example so when micro strategy announced the Bitcoin uh strategy um on that day Bitcoin till today ethereum has outperformed so in one argument Undeniably objectively micro strategy has done a fantastic job of creating shareholder value done all this stuff if you go back and you look at it historically

they would have billions of dollars more right or hundreds of millions of dollars more whatever the exact numbers are uh on their balance sheet if they had bought ethereum instead of Bitcoin now 5 or 10 years from now if ethereum's worth zero then obviously that was a bad strategy and so I always go back to it as like I think that um the reason why the Bitcoin Community holds Bitcoin and doesn't Trade It 75% is il liquid all stuff it's because there's this deep conviction it's going to be around in 20 years 50 years 100

years right the other stuff I don't think actually people have that much conviction of 10 15 25 years yeah but it does introduce this very interesting Dynamic of if you are making a five-year decision Versus a 50-year decision right you may actually buy different assets and I think Michael saor is unique in that he actually is thinking in 50-year time frames right I don't think the average public company CEO thinks in 50-year time frames I think they think like totally 90day time they don't control their company like sailor does it's a very unique situation but

again I think it's uh you know we're complicating a game of musical chairs it's really Thought simply if I have one user on my platform and I grow to two users that's 100% year-over-year growth if Facebook goes from 4 billion users to 4 and a half billion users I'm outperforming Facebook so according to like your logic like my company is more impressive than Facebook it's kind of like the law large numbers but if sailor could have sailor could have put right again I'm not advocating he should have done this but I'm just saying if he

had put Whatever the first person was like $500 million in ethereum he could have done that right it's not like it was a you're extrapolating things that I don't think are as safe to extrapolate you know he his shareholders have a lot of confidence in the strategy the confidence comes from Bitcoin no one actually TR now people trust Michael Michael's also a good friend of mine so I'm I'm saying though he he joined a network of trust that had Dependable Trust over a decade yeah he he leveraged people trust Bitcoin that's where I go back

to like I think Bitcoin is the only thing in the market where people like it's the way I think about it I'm going to give my Bitcoin to my grandkids right I don't l no price is going to make me sell right and it's this belief that 50 to 100 years from now Bitcoin still going to be around I don't think that there's a single other asset in the market where people believe 50 to 100 Years from now tot it's just that humans it is unique for people to think longterm we live in this short-term

optimized world and so it's it it seems easy to see how people are going to go and buy all these other assets and try to outperform in the short term frankly look some people are good Traders like they they may actually outperform right the average person probably is not a good Trader and won't outperform and so like how do you start To Think Through where Capital will flow in this industry if let's say the top 10 coins all get ETFs right like are these guys eating into the Bitcoin Capital flow because people are saying oh

I think ethereum is going to go up more I think salana is going to go up more for six months or 12 months I I think it all ends I don't think of it that I have such a low time preference I think all roads lead to bitcoin I don't stress about like next quarter's capital Inflows and what that's going to do to the btcusd spot price I just don't care and I I I do question you know if I'm an asset manager that's deploying hundreds of millions of dollars on behalf of my clients am

I really going to put it into a salana ETF um because the other point about sailor is if he would have done an ethereum strategy how much confidence would existing shareholders and future shareholders would have had in the future of the business because ethereum In my opinion is a startup it's very unclear are they going to change directions again what do Regulators think about them what if vital gets hit by a bus I mean these are real risks that something like Bitcoin doesn't have because it's a technology versus Bitcoin as a money and so how

much I I I just think that Fiat to basement is what's driving all this stuff this mic is going to be more expensive next year my house is going to be more expensive next year This hat is going to be more expensive next year so is Bitcoin so is anything and so it's not that impressive to me that they're going to see Capital flows because everything's seeing Capital flows when an excess of fiat currency everything sees Capital that's the definition of inflation and so everything's going to inflate I just don't value that story that much

in the near term and again I can create Jack bucks right now and I can say you I'll Give you a million of them for a buck and I print 10 billion of them all of a sudden I have an I would do it to support you yeah I'd have an egregious egregiously High market cap the growth in the last 24% would be insane and we'd sit down a podcast be like what's Bitcoin going to do about that it didn't sure didn't outperform Jack bucks today like well [ __ ] Jack bucks like what are

we talking about here we're trying to like actually do productive good for Society but I so this is one thing that maybe I disagree with like the most hardcore bitcoiners on which is uh 50 more than 50% of all bitcoiners came into the market after 2020 right so like today if you look at I don't how many growing network has of course you're G to get the compound and so like 50% of bitcoiners in the future are going to come from here on out right like type thing so um more more users come in and

the numbers will get bigger uh for you Or I or anyone who bought Bitcoin before 2020 even if you continue to dollar cost average or whatever like it has appreciated a lot right and so a low cost basis up llarge um I think it's easier for that cohort of people kind of like 2009 to 2020 to stomach oh if Bitcoin goes from 100% compound annual growth rate down to 30 or 40 H [ __ ] it like you know it's already appreciated so much like it's compounding on a larger number not that big of a

deal but If you're the average American and you come in and for example last year the uh QQQ NASDAQ was up 50% yeah it's not going to do that every year right but like now all of a sudden if you're like oh this asset compounds at 30% there's other assets that go 50 it changes the like Capital allocation I think and part of what uh where I think that it is important is bitcoiners are almost backing themselves into this bet on like like a binary hyperbitcoinization or not Because in my mind um through the different

Cycles we've seen volatility dampen we've seen price appreciation right on a percentage basis go down and so if that continues at some point the like the the greatest meme in the world was number go up still is right um you play a human emotion and all stuff if number go up becomes stock market returns right and an extreme example are people excited about that I don't know like maybe they actually understand it's Not just about the number and it is Bitcoin and kind of the decentralization and all this but like how many people bought Bitcoin

initially because they just thought the number was going to Skyrocket right it's kind of like the price is the marketing campaign people come in they learn about Bitcoin they stick around afterwards today's episode is brought to you by propy imagine a world where you could buy and sell your home wallet to wallet with prop Keys you Canm your home address and upgrade it to a real world asset this this not only protects your home's title from fraud but when you are ready to move you can sell it through an nft auction as well as through

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I spend time here and I want to be able to capture that because I want other goods and services like food and housing and family or I want to be able to take the Time I've spent on this world and save it through time because I might want stuff later okay so I think what bitcoiners bitcoiners think of Bitcoin as money so well ethereum outperformed Bitcoin over this certain if you look at the chart this way okay yeah but salana outperformed ethereum okay yeah but that shitcoin outperform that okay what about QQQ that year Well

if I stand on my hands and I'm a little dizzy and I've had a beer well then maybe I think my Name's Rob it's like well what are we doing you've turned yourself into a gambler I don't want to take my time and energy and gamble it that's so the whole point of Bitcoin is removing money as a speculative idea I don't need to go to work every and then speculate I don't need to be an expert in Japanese Central Bank monetary policy in order to persist my wealth grow a family inevitably own a home

so I think a bitcoiners position is this is money good money that I can put Under the mattress and it'll be worth more tomorrow than it is today because it's hard it cannot be debased and all of our contributions to the economy and to the world are going to produce goods and services that actually decline in price against this hard asset and that's the point is like so a savings technology yeah yeah well that's what we're talking about right now cuz you're you're comparing it to the last four years of eth returns right it's the

Equivalent of like well you know Steph Curry you know he's so good well what about um this g-league player he scored 60 points that one night but I but here's the other thing is I think that I think that bitcoiners um they discount what happens in the traditional market so for example uh I'd argue the S&P is actually the savings technology of like Wall Street it's become the savings technology they're treating it that way there's a monetary premium that's now Being assigned to it where people are basically saying like Okay the dollar is going to

be debased what is the thing that I have the highest confidence and that's going to be around in 20 years and it's going to go up every year at some rate S&P yeah right or or name whatever index but let use S&P um 6 to 8% 7 to 9% whatever the number is like to them like to the Boomers that's awesome right just like set it forget it dollar cost average Etc what actually Think is interesting about Bitcoin is when people ask me like what's the rate of return I needed to drive it's like we

got to be Bitcoin for me to not want to buy Bitcoin 100% it's the cost of capital yeah and so like it is the S&P I think for a whole generation of people is now like Bitcoin has become the thing it's going to become the S&P for Boomers too I mean inflation can't be measured as one basket metric inflation is measured on a per service or good Instance so 7 or 8% isn't making you progress towards owning home if the dream us home is inflating at 20% year-over-year unless you're getting a 20% raise every single

year or your S&P is appreciating 20% every single year you're not making progress you're walking backwards and so when I look at a Bitcoin chart so let's say bitcoin's up 160% year-over year and everyone's like that's such a massive number to me that's not massive at all because what Is it it's one a reflection of the debasement of the currency so it's outperforming it the actual dollar and then it's also a reflection of all the Innovation and progress that humanity is making right why was gold 2% inflation okay 2% inflation on net is dog [

__ ] it has a 30 30-y year half life in 30 years half my wealth is gone at 2% inflation the average American lives 75 years well over half my money's gone with 2% inflation which is gold the gold Standard right why was that okay is because all of us humans were producing more growth than 2% every single year so when something goes up 160% the way I look at Bitcoin is not only is it protecting me against the debasement of Fiat but it's allowing me to capture all the Innovation and amazing things that humans

are creating and so 7% we're like innovating on AI bro 7% you're not giving me any returns at all 160% means I'm living in the year 2024 There are computers that are solving insane problems I'm able to fly from Chicago to New York to hang out with you and the fact that central banks have never had a bigger problem that's what 160% tells me so I think that slowly but surely people will realize that the last thing I'll say on this is that people aren't stupid right is that you see another guy get 160% and

you get seven you're like ah man wasn't my year but 15 years in a row people aren't dumb and You know if you do think of money as abstracted time and energy and not like well you know I don't care about money I'm altruistic I'm going to donate it all anyway yeah but think about a time and energy you know the guy that owns the better money gets more with their family gets more housing gets more space gets more opportunity and that's things that we all I don't give a [ __ ] how altruistic you

are that's that's life that's human that's family that's Relationships that's love that's hope right and so if I get more of that because I own a better instrument than you you know get your SMP I I think it's just only a matter of time before the law of capitalism the law of Being Human and logical is like well I should probably own that one one of the uh things I think bitcoiners should talk about more that they don't is uh gold is actually down in purchasing power terms over the last five years yeah right and

So it is up in nominal terms but just given the inflation like even gold hasn't kept up whereas Bitcoin obviously is outperformed um so I think that it goes back to uh there's this like religious kind of like people want to call it cold I think it's just more of like a religious view on it it's actually incredibly valuable if you look at Bitcoin from a like non-economic stand point cuz the price doesn't matter then you're just like I'm buying it I'm Dollar cost averaging I'm never going to sell it like there's nothing better than

like true un you know filtered uh conviction in an asset that's 80 ball right like if you just know I'm not selling it great um you can think of all the great stocks all the stuff over time like there's very few people who held them and it was usually people who had very deep conviction so there is benefits to it um but I do think also uh when people talk about it they almost Are using that as the they lead with that um but now that wall Street's showing up I actually think that we're going

to have to convince them of more the economic arguments than just like hey just buy it hold it it's going to be you know be around in 20 years um because that's the language they speak sure right and uh they're going to go back to like the water cooler and they're going to like hey did you DCF it right you're Just like not the way to think about it but they're going to do it anyways yeah but that's the again like pure humanity is amazing like everyone shows up at the water cool ER and gives

their opinion about a tool well this guy thinks it's for drugs this guy thinks it's for savings this guy thinks it's for crossbo payments this guy thinks it's for wrapping his ETF instruments in and it's like wow that's all of us being unique and special and contributing to the World in our own way that's a free market a permissionless system an open network that we all can participate and collaborate within trustless Le like that's [ __ ] awesome right like my how I look at Bitcoin is different how Larry looks at Bitcoin think F it's

beautiful no one is there to tell us that one of us isn't following the rules does it water down Larry Fink's message if you know when he came out at Bitcoin I mean I think I went on television I was like He's a CMO of Bitcoin right now this is awesome Larry fin talking about Bitcoin and at one point people were buying Bitcoin it was going up and he was like it's a flight to Quality yeah I mean there's not a better guy to say something like that right in kind of the Bitcoin story if

he then shows up with like the second one you know it's I almost feel like in one way it's it's like uh if somebody shows up and they got a really nice watch and they're just Telling you this one thing it's the greatest watch in the world like cool but then if all of a sudden somebody shows up and they're like let me open my trench coat and I got 20 watches you're kind of like uh is it the same thing so like how does the The Narrative change because if there's an eth uh ETF

that's approved we got to assume that these same organizations that were just out you know kind of pimping Bitcoin they're going to do the same thing with these Other assets I that's his problem to solve not mine I mean I don't have that problem right I only sell Bitcoin on my platform and my Approach is if you want a high quality Bitcoin experience and customer support that'll pick up the phone and experts that build the best technology in the world and that's what I sell I don't sell ethereum so I don't know how he's going

to manage to sell a thousand different shitcoins and I do think though like if if I were to Forward project how does this cycle end because by the way I'm not saying we're going into hyper viiz I do think this cycle will end we'll have some crash I mean there's a hangover to all the Deb basement that has to happen I mean that's you're getting drunk everyone's Rich everything's up right and so where would I think it turns around well all of a sudden when some shitcoin gets rugged and Larry think has a basket in

it then all of these people are going to Go to their local politicians and say hey I bought a black rock instrument those things can't rug me you shouldn't have let me invest in that I'm safe right and people are going to get rugged Larry f can get [ __ ] on um so but between now and then he's going to create a carnival Bonanza of like the dollars being debase here run into this [ __ ] arcade bar and get drunk and buy stupid [ __ ] I don't know that's I wonder how Larry's

going to pitch that I have No idea because again it's like ethereum's the world computer if I were a traditional investor I'd say interesting why is that better than AWS how much what's the cash flow and you say no no no no stupid you just buy the coin he's going to be like what why how what based on what value like what's going on so again I who knows um but what I do know is that they're making a lot of money and banks are starved for business for revenue for activity They're not again like

the the bond the problem with the bond market is not that they're getting paid out 5 and a half percent it's the fact that they're not actively lending and loaning right so they want Revenue they want action they want flow these Bankers want big bonuses at the end of the year right so like these these instruments that have real life in them which are these crypto ETFs they're going to want they're going to list like doggy coins as as long as they Think that there's going to be inflows for him I mean it definitely will

be inflows whether we think that there should be or not right yeah like it listen it's like one of the secrets of Finance is there's more Deens on Wall Street than in crypto yeah I mean and we're all like crypto couldn't dream up the mortgage crisis I dude I think they couldn't there's no way that they could pull that off but I think here's the thing I think We're all speculators in nature so what floor are we on are you are you in a doct 47th floor is that is that real okay so the 47th

floor so I had I had a decision to make between taking the stairs or taking the elevator and I gambled I took the elevator it's a man-made machine that could have not gone well and put me in danger it probably would have been safer to take the stairs the stairs would have taken more time and energy from me so I Optimized for time and energy and I took the elevator but that was an inreal time speculative gamble that I made so I think all of us humans are speculative gam gamblers one of the things that

makes life what it is is that the future is permanently unknown okay so all of us are speculative gamblers so don't ever let anyone sell you that Wall Street isn't a speculative Gambler or that this guy's not everyone in nature is the future is permanently uncertain that's Just a fact the problem is we don't want our money to to be that way our money is the market good in the economy that's not supposed to be that that's why gold was money is because it was the most certain thing we can find and so the problem

everyone of course everyone's a gambler everyone's a Speculator everyone's going to want to go into the casino and put it all on red but the problem with Society is we shouldn't be forced to speculate on our time and our Energy that's the issue so like we need to reverse course there like the money should be pure sound hard and real and then humans speculate on the future innately naturally like after this I'm gonna eat some food from some restaurant and I'm speculating and I have some risk-based approach in my brain of like if they spit

in it right like maybe I think the odds are low maybe I think the odds are high because I saw something right like constantly speculating so Anyway no one's more ethical and pure like [ __ ] Wall Street guys like they're just as much a Speculator as the guys that are on Robin Hood that we all are but you know that shouldn't be the money we use we shouldn't be forced to speculate we should be able to save money how is Strike helping people buy Bitcoin I think we're just better at providing Bitcoin Financial Services

than everyone else why um it's a higher quality service our technolog is better We are licensed regulated in all the major markets in the world uh we our customer support like call us we'll answer the phone handhold you through it I mean when we were founded it was along a lightning Network thesis but we kind of grew into a life style brand for Bitcoin with high quality financial services for everything you need I mean our biggest business line by far is selling Bitcoin and it's because we have for example free onchain Bitcoin Withdrawals we have

lightning Network support our Technologies faster quicker stronger better we have better customer support we're more available and more accessible in more currencies and I think also people resonate with our mission and our brand and so in a business I think if you compare us to someone like coinbase I think I don't think Brian would necessarily take offense to me saying we're better at Bitcoin than you Guys because they don't focus on bitcoin they don't care as much about Bitcoin they don't have free onchain withdrawals that uses fancy batching technology and fee estimation technology because they

they buildt base instead and so we see a world where there's an industry of folks that are going to continue to focus on crypto and when we focus on bitcoin like those products and services and the quality for the customer begins to delineate and we've seen like the growth We've seen and and where we like lay our our head at night is the fact that we're just pound-for-pound one of the best in the world at Bitcoin and that's turned into a phenomenal business the best yeah not one of I mean I don't like speaking in

definitive so I like when it when it comes to talking about shitcoins I'll be aggressive but like as a CEO of strike you know like and you're a shareholder right like the future of the business is is being uh one of the best in the world In the next year decade century and that's going to be an incredible business and so we never never too high never too low uh as a startup you know you you know what I'm talking about so we keep an even head and we just try and do well by customers

what do you think about Trump and Biden now all like trying to position themselves to embrace all this stuff it's awesome I mean boy did we go quick from they're going to ban it to they support it and endorse it I think one of my favorite takeaways is the fact that it is a grounds up movement they're not doing this necessarily for donations although they seem to be getting donations they're doing it because they want votes that means that it's empowered and supported by the people right you want donations you go to a Bloomberg cocktail

hour and you say okay like I'll take your $20 million what do you want me to advocate for if you want the collective populace The open public to vote for you I mean the fact that it's a voter issue means that it's power to the people which was the intention of the technology it's a grounds up movement that's the coolest thing for me is Biden all of a sudden went from [ __ ] your industry to oh [ __ ] Trump's supporting it and he seems to be getting a lot of momentum from his support

okay fine I support it too that means that voters care that means a lot of individuals subscribe to this idea That's my biggest takeaway is you know politicians are going to be politicians they're all going to make promises that they probably can't keep but the fact fact that they recognize that the power is in the individual's hands with this one I mean Satoshi would be proud of that for sure is that um he he gave us a lot of Leverage right we're able to move election years by running nodes and owning our Assets in this

Bitcoin thing that's individual power that I don't Know if we've had in quite some I mean what other election topic I mean this is real power the individual has say no you're going to support us [ __ ] that's just so Co I think that um the national politics and I've talked about this before but like at the city and state level we had you know Texas Florida New York they were all arguing over who's going to take more of their paycheck or who was you know Bitcoin Capital whatever um now The national political level

is a whole different ball game right and um it's in the face of some pretty well-known politicians who were saying I don't want this and people broke from them um and so to have the two major candidates basically coming out now and being like we like it y pretty hard to say it's going to get banned um but the more interesting part to me is like what I call the domino effect you know all the other countries that not even the ones Who baned just like the ones who were kind of like H I don't

really we don't have an opinion kind of what the US was doing like well we're kind of abrasive but like we're not going to like clamp down on it whatever um they probably got to embrace it now for sure right like if like you're not g to let the US do stuff well and you not follow yeah well the way I think about it is maybe slightly different it's that um you don't want to be the guy that's On the wrong side of it at this point because now I think that the US was going

to have an issue if etf's got approved all of a sudden this thing goes to trillions of dollars in market cap maybe 10 trillion dollars in market cap in this cycle and you're going to get civil unrest of people saying hey inflation debasement of the currency this Bitcoin thing seems to be the escape hatch what the hell is going on now Trump Biden they can say I Acknowledge it I support it it's Tech technology it's Innovation it's the fact that we have it here in America people are mining so I think that's also a very

slight pivot that they now can error on the side of if this thing does blow that they acknowledged it and they weren't on the wrong side so I think what you'll start to see is politicians just positioning themselves to make sure they're not on the wrong side and like I think it's great thing about Al Salvador All of a sudden naive is a forward-thinking genius right when it comes to bitcoin uh so I think it has extrapolated effects when it comes to geopolitical relationships and stuff but what I think we'll continue to see is what

you don't want to be is the politician or the president that opposes it because if it does go to $250,000 a coin and Trump supported everyone supported it and you didn't I mean you're going to get ousted right um yeah It's like the momentum now uh the only way you get hurt you don't get hurt by supporting get hurt by not supporting it correct that's the game the it used to be the opposite is that by supporting it you could get hurt but if you just stayed with the pack but but the consensus is now

switched the game theory of Bitcoin has always been you're better on its team than not mhm you're better an ally than an enemy mhm and so you're seeing that now play out with Presidents the most powerful in the United States of America but that's the game theory is you don't have to like I don't own dollars I only own Bitcoin I found it a Bitcoin business right I'm so long Bitcoin no one's more long than I am but you don't have to be that but you better not stand in its way and it is like

acid in that way where everything it touches it just seeps through and dominates and eviscerates and you just don't want to stand against that thing And so yeah it it seeped its way into an election cycle and everyone you know what Bitcoin was like hands where I can see him you on our team or do I have to put a bullet through your chest and everyone said no no no no no no no we support we're going to accept donations all the regulatory changes so but we've seen it time and time and time and time

and time again right I'm on team Bitcoin and team strike that a boy those are good teams where can we send people to Find you and team strike oh uh Jack is my real name so I'm not a I'm not a Nim so uh I'm not Anonymous I'm not I'm sure you interview a bunch of guys that are like you know crypto eggnog is like well how do I actually find you jack Mard is how you find me so I'm Jack MERS on Twitter everywhere else and uh where strike. me you can download the app

we probably sell Bitcoin for some of the cheapest fees in the world so try Us all right next time we'll do again next time appreciate you brother