I remember when we started chatting you know the fact that you know we got the same wardrobe together was a critical component we planned this strategically right that's the most important thing is how we dress is Gabby similar and we think similar too that's cool too why do you wear the same the similar attire so I think we get decision fatigue all the time which is like making a bunch of micro decisions and for me clothes by itself it doesn't bring like a ton of value to me I want to look fine look clean and
I'm good with that and for me if I can wear basically the same thing every single day that's one less decision I have to make about that I much rather take the energy and apply towards my business or my family instead come on man I'll tell you man and I just find it's very simple as that simple idea too and when I first heard about Steve Jobs doing that I was like is it really Gonna Save that much time but it does like in the morning time I just go in the closet and it's gonna
be a black tea more than likely maybe it's a different type of black tea that's that's the lit I have like 20 black v-necks I have like a few other colors and spice it up but I'm like come on it's gonna be the same it'll be by Lululemon ABC pants and it'll be a block v-neck come on man come on you can find me a mile away that's it listen Marcus I bragged about you a little bit there man I talked to people about the great things you're doing helping sellers especially those who are in
80 positions to improve their sales game but I'm not as great as bragging about you as you are and why don't you take a second and go a little bit deeper and tell us a little bit more about what you do yeah absolutely so first off I'm Marcus Shen I'm a founder of Bentley Consulting Group and I work directly with B2B sales professionals or account Executives helping them earn additional hundred thousand dollars more each year in commissions alone before I did this I was actually in Corporate America for over 14 years worked for two major
Fortune 500 companies so I won the worst reps almost got fired in last recession made just an insane amount of mistakes eventually did pretty well got promoted 10 times in 10 years got to point or go over 110 plus employees and that was a lot of fun until I decided to leave it all behind go all into my side house still making a main hassle congratulations on that super awesome thank you and exciting and see this is why I want to have this conversation because one one of the things that we focus on on the
show is helping Sailors when it comes to increasing their close rate like people just have a hard time with that one of the areas Marcus that comes up over and over and over again for sales reps are coming across objections coming across challenges roadblocks whatever you want to call them and figure out a way to best help the buyer make a decision whether that's to go with them or not to go with them but just overcoming those objections and I want to be able to get some insights from you on that today like how what's
your process what works Marcus give me I love the way you framed that but it's not about trying to like convince them to buy when they get an objection it's simply help them come to a decision that's gonna be best for them I think it's really really important that's why it's so key to detach from the outcomes and I think it's important to understand before we go to the framework is understanding what most people are doing right now now and what most people usually do is Prospect give some sort of objection something like let me
think about it or I don't do three-year contracts or whatever the objection or is too expensive whatever it's going to be and immediately after the sales professional most generally speaking most of them are going to have a bunch of rebuttals in in their head they'll say okay they say this I'm gonna start saying that they try to overcome by saying like you know well do you remember this or X Y and Z this is why this makes sense Etc and they're trying to like convince this other person and usually it doesn't work and your ex
gets more resistance and that process pushes away so when you're not to be true you want to have a better mythology of being able to create a space where the product feels comfortable having an honest and open conversation with you so you can really see what's really on their mind so the framework I teach is very simple it's called the heart framework that's h e a r t and you can do this for any objection you get thrown your way you can run through this very similar model so let's kind of break it down step
by step so let's just say for example if the objection is let me think about it or you know or let me review for a couple days and get back to you kind of the classic stall in which you know you know eventually they'll probably just ghost yeah right so we'll talk about how to overcome that so they say I want to think about maybe a couple days kind of process everything so go into the H first which is we want to make them feel heard has shown a little bit of empathy now that might
be as simple as totally appreciate that I'm glad you shared I'm glad you shared that I definitely watch you take some time to think about it notice my tonality here it's comforting it's soft it's not aggressive I will put them on ease and I want to validate what's on their mind is something that's actually on their mind so at that point then you want to go into the E which says elaborate you want them now to elaborate what the objection is about and that can be a very simple phrases such as can you tell me
a little more about that or can you explain what you mean by that so in this situation they want to think about it say hey no problem definitely take some time think about this can you help me understand what's on your mind right now you're opening the door up and this is at the E the elaborate is where you want to spend a lot of time on to really uncover the root objection and I say the root objection for intentionally because sometimes you get a symptom of some of a concern and we try to solve
for that but there's a different cause in mind so let me give you an example let's just say they say wow I like what you showed me so far but we you know we just don't sign three-year contracts and that's what you showed us so we really need to think about that now again that's a little symptom we don't actually know what the cause of the concern about three-year term is so you know hey can you tell me more what about the three-year term concerns you might be like well you know historically we've only signed
like only one year so joined three years this might be it's three times long and you know we just we don't really do that that's still a symptom still so again you go deeper and elaborate hey so tell me more what do you mean specifically well in the past we used to sign these three year agreements and we've been burned what do you mean well we get signed with X vendor and then we had issues they couldn't take care of and we were just stuck for the term of three years got it so now we're
getting a little bit deeper here so now the elaborate we're really uncovering what the root cause is so you can go deeper from there and that might sound like so I understand you right the concern you have is not necessarily the term it's more so if you're stuck with our service model or software that you basically feel like you're in jail locked in for three years there's no way out is that right yes that's it got it so now we have a good understanding that the real concern is basically being stuck if they're not happy
so now we have H we have e now we want to go to a which is aside from that objection they just mentioned are there is there anything else because sometimes what ends up happening is we maybe do a good job on covering the objection and we try to overcome it now but suddenly if you have a comment they give you another objection yeah you do the same thing and you go comes back and forth in this proverbial boxing match back forward and you're trading punches and so you're worn out they're worn out and you're
just like oh my gosh I'll just have a follow-up call later and not nobody really wins there yeah so now we just want to make sure that's the only thing on their mind so we can we basically you can use the word aside to help you remember hey aside from being concerned that if you're not happy you're basically gonna be stuck for whatever term it's going to be is there anything else that's on your mind it's giving you pause while partnering together and we're just laying out so now if they say well there's something else
now you might look a little deeper if they say no I think that's pretty much it based on what they're saying you may want to answer so just wanna make sure there's nothing else there's nothing else that's really it got it so now you know cool between you and potentially closing them if you will is that objection now what I want to hear this point is I'm actually going to have them sell themselves on the value of the solution because most people at this point they're going to say well let me give you a reason
why you should do a three-year contract with us blah blah blah blah instead of that you're going to reverse it you're gonna have them tell you so we're gonna have them do the r which is re-clarify value that's the R re-clarify value and it's super simple you say God that makes a lot of sense hey can you remind me again Donald what you know aside from the term what did you like the most about our solution and I can tell you they might like oh like this like that like this like that and then you
can help them bridge the gap between what they like and how to help the business if they don't make their own Gap they'll make their own connection with cells why how will it help your business how it impact your customers how will that impact your clients how will that impact your teams so they start going through all that they start telling you well a list is like this like this of course you can remind some of those things all right and then you go to the T right at this point you just shifted their brain
from the objection to what they like about you so in a different state of mind you may potentially see at this point on they may not even have the same objection anymore they might be like no you're right this is a no-brainer let's just that's fine let's do it right now if they're not quite there yet then you suddenly overcome objection then you go to T which is transition to a close and that's where is your opportunity to overcome that objection right so this is where depending what the objection is you need to know how
to actually overcome it so for example here maybe if it's the term thing maybe you have some sort of guarantee on the agreement where if they're not happy they can basically send an electric customer success and have them take care of it don't fix it whatever and at that point you can bring that up so now say hey so let's so just make sure you're on the same page Donald like I'm really glad you brought this up to my attention and I want you to know this is my fault because I didn't show the most
important thing on an agreement which is actually our happiness guarantee and you pull the agreement up and here it says like if you're not happy for any reason at any time whether it's one day in two days in one year in three years a hundred years it doesn't even matter all you have to do is send in a letter to our CS manager who's their names inside here if we don't fix it we walk away because frankly we didn't do the best job to keep your business which is the most important and you'll have that
in Reading as well does that put your mind at ease so you can really see how powerful that can be if you run the whole frame because now you spent 89 of that whole section right there having them talk to talk about the situation so they can mentally walk through the scenario and come to their own decision on what to actually do next love it I love it a couple points to this and going back to the very top the tonality even from all the way back there why do you feel that makes a difference
so tonality is to deliver the very different message to them it helps show if your other being genuine or disingenuous if you actually truly care or are you just being self-serving so for example if I said hey I could totally appreciate that definitely take some time to think about that I kind of pause and that kind of soaks in versus yeah I could totally appreciate that you should definitely think about it so anyways can you tell me more what you mean specifically you know wording why it's virtually the same thing but the delivery is not
putting them out if we're not careful we're gonna put their brain as fight or flight mode and we don't want them to in fact we need to create a situation where they feel comfortable right they need to feel that emotional security to be able to have a conversation with you because our goal is not to make them feel bad or make them feel uncomfortable but we want to have a conversation with them and just have the truth because you've probably done a good job for the whole process you're probably a nice person you probably have
their interests hopefully in mind and they probably sense that they may also be scared to tell you what's really on their mind yeah so it's so important to utilize tonality as a tool to make them more comfortable and this is for any situation the tonality how you say certain things completely shifts the mood and what's going on that's why you know if you're married and you talk to your spouse in a certain tonality they know the feeling's very different and my wife says Mark yes versus Marcus I know the Fallen conversation is going to be
very different oh ain't that the truth I want to go back to the anything else why do you feel so many sellers don't go deep on that one I think they feared I think they fear the truth right they fear they're going to even ask that level of question and go that deep but also I think a lot of them are so focused on the rebuttal yeah so when they hear what they want to hear even the English might go a little deeper they're like but I think I know what it is and I'll give
you a really really good example right so in my corporate career you know a few years back so typically most people leave the five-year contract to sign and most people end up getting a three-year now I consistently got five and seven ten year contracts as is because very very intentional because whenever someone gave me the objection about term I knew that wasn't really the objection yeah but in most people's head when they had heard like oh the word about contract that's what they're worried about the normal thinking but what specifically are they worried about in
the contract they're not really thinking that and the reality it was working with these business owners I knew their biggest concern would either would give me number one they're not happy and they're stuck to get buyers remorse right because the hotel dive in deep or number two they might tell me if their business went out of business they didn't want to be personally liable to it even if they went like bankrupt for some reason because sometimes they're new businesses as well so because I knew when they said hey I don't I don't I don't want
to sign a five-year contract I could dive in deep and this way by actually diving to even diagnosing what the root objection is I can overcome and handle it effectively so for example if their surface later was I'm more about the term but the root issue that was they might go out of business they're scared about that if I just try to talk about the surface guarantee that wouldn't matter they were like what do you I don't really care about that I don't really My worry is actually I might go to business I don't be
stuck with it right so we had to solve the right problem with the right solution and for sales people you want to challenge your own assumptions when you hear that objection you want to go deeper you want to cover what it is but also you'll make sure there's no other ones because you don't want to get surprised like nobody likes surprises that's just reality so if you cover that to be true it makes it much easier now on top of that it also requires tremendous discipline to not handle that objection when you get it to
actually pause go deeper and then also say hey aside from that object I want you to cover it is there anything else it takes a lot of discipline to actually do as well because you have to hold yourself back they just told me it's about business going on business I know how to overcome this but you'd like hold yourself back rain yourself in make sure that's the only one and then that way you know how to actually overcome it or you might need to stack up multiple objections in a row so you can overcome all
those and you might realize if there's too many to overcome you may need to have a fault meeting and dressed in a different way yeah so it takes more discipline it takes a lot of self-control and self-awareness to be able to do you know and I find that it's I think that's probably where one of the the big issue is I I I like barbecue and Marcus and once I lived out in Idaho and I went to school out there and I remember one winter we were like you know screw this it was this weather
was kind of breaking just a little bit and it wasn't into anything too crazy but we're Florida kids right there's a few Florida guys and we're roommates uh this barbecue so we got some chicken and we want to put this some chicken on the grill and then we didn't thaw the chicken properly uh crank up the heat Marcus so you got these burnt outside dark chicken and then inside is like Frozen and I think oftentimes with objections is that same way like you know sellers they are so excited for the outcome the food that they
can eat that they just go straight into heat like just burn it up just go turn up the heat let's give them a discount let's push this to try to do a trick a a closing tactic on when in actuality they didn't do the necessary thing or try to overcome the objection when they didn't realize what the true objection was here you are going off course and causing more problems delaying the deals when in actuality if you had the gumption or the discipline that you would share to to go deeper you probably would get more
and I think that comes with the tenure as well as the maturity and uh to be able to have a conversation on that level so bro oh yeah I love the framework I a little by example right and I think it's like it's it's we talk about in sales right it's like being able to detach from the outcome and actually focus on the process that's why Frameworks and processes are really important for a reason because when you stick to the process the fundamentals just like in any sport that's where the real magic is made is
being able to do it really really well and be consistent with it that will serve you much further it's just like there's Basics to barbecuing right if you don't do it in a certain order you're gonna have crispy on the outside or raw the inside that's a bad situation to me foreign [Laughter] I love this framework Marcus let's say I'm an AE or a bdr and I'm listening to this and I want to go about practicing it what's my first step that I should do when I to do this should I write it down do
I put it on my screen I do I listen to the show over and over again how do I go about practicing and start doing this because I know I'm probably gonna mess up the first time oh 100 so as the saying goes amateurs play more than they practice professionals practice more than they play and it's important to understand whenever you do a framework you're going to probably bot the first 100 times you do it so when you're practicing a really simple way to do it is even if you whether it's additional flash cards or
paper flash cards doesn't really matter I would go and I'll just write down a bunch of objections right on flash cards common objections mix them up and then on like another sheet of paper write out h e a r t and pull up a random objection pretend the process said it and start walking through the framework and really focus on h-e-a-r like don't even do the T for now just focus on h-e-a-r because that's actually the hardest part is the front and having them talk yeah and you start doing that you can get better and
better by doing it right if you practice with somebody else it's even better now on top of that I'm a firm believer how you do one thing is how you do everything how can you internalize this and do this in every part of your life your spouse is upset with you right she's upset with you she's like oh my God you didn't you didn't put the dishes away again hey babe I totally appreciate that I'm really glad you shared that with me make him feel heard elaborate can you tell me a little more what's on
your mind right get her to elaborate go deep aside from anything else well also like Marcus it's not just that you don't put your clothes away you don't do this exactly you might realize a bunch of other stuff right you know see you still even with the same problem you're not worried about the transition to the clothes you're just trying to make sure they feel heard and you can really uncover the rude objection is because reality is is the rude objection might be you're a sloppy Pig you know I get my point but my point
is when you practice even in life with anybody everyone your family your friends you actually become a better Communicator yeah they feel more and also sometimes you may find if you practice with your spouse or someone close to you they're actually not that upset with you it's just they've had a rough day it's actually inconsequential and just like our prospects they have rough days too and sometimes they're just not seen the right way by walking the mythology like this it opens their minds and realize actually it's a non-objection let's just make this happen so perfect
practice makes perfect do it every single day and everywhere you go love it Marcus um if folks are curious about what you do um if they want to connect with you maybe don't want to learn the framework from you take one of your programs go through something that you have how did it go about connecting with you what's the best way awesome so I'm pretty active on LinkedIn so you can look at market share on LinkedIn and connect with you there I could also get a free copy my Wall Street Journal bestselling book friendly.co forward
slash book it's family.gov book a lot of cool Frameworks inside there as well if you go to my site you'll be able to access me as well on my site too Marcus thank you for taking the time to come on a show today sharing your heart with us and helping us to make more dough in the process that was good grab me on like that