Hi and welcome to the rags to Rich showw with myself Terry Blackburn our returning guest our favorite guest Mr maraw is on today and this episode's a little bit different and the reason for that is we do get asked a lot of questions because the masterminds and the programs that we running together are so different and they are so unique we are getting asked a lot of questions in our inboxes on social media so I Thought this episode be a little bit more informal a little bit of a chat and we'll go through the commonly
asked questions and hopefully by the end of the podcast you listen all the way through it'll answer a lot of the questions that we're getting on a regular basis and hopefully it'll help you as well understand a little bit more about what we do okay so mark first question is working with estate agents so how do you work you personally how do You work with let an AG Ag and estate agents well how I work with them um is based on the fact that I set up and and run my own estate agencies and lons
agencies for a number of years um so it's really a case of the first thing you've got to do is put yourself in the mind of an estate agent so um you know I hate to say it but most estate agents don't like investors yeah they see you as a bit of a waste of time they see you as somebody that's just trying to get a Below market value deal and potentially you're going to embarrass them in front of their client so what what you've got to do is you've got to put yourself in their
position and you've got to get them to understand the way that you work so for instance um if you're being very very specific you might say to somebody um do you have any properties that the chain is about to collapse so this is where somebody's buying on a property and they're selling their property to Allow them to buy that on now the issue if there's a chain break is that now they're not able to sell their property they can't buy that property on so we know what's going to happen from the estate agent's point of
view often the buyer will phone the estate agent and say there's been a down valuation I need to resubmit my offer I need to reduce my offer now the estate agent at that point knows that their client can't afford to reduce it so the estate agent is now Thinking I'm going to lose this sale the vendor is going to blame us and they're likely to go on with the competitor we just wasted all that time and we've got nothing to show for it now if they know that I can actually save the chain if for
instance they know that when their client sold the property they were going to use 15,000 pounds towards a deposit I now know and and I know a to explain to that state agent that if I give your your client £15,000 that saves the chain and that enables the sale to go through through yeah exactly so the way that the estate agent is now thinking the Chain's about to collapse I'm going to send the details to Mark I'm going to give him all the information that I need and then if he can actually help I'm going
to phone my client say unfortunately your buyers reduce the offer but I've already spoken to an investor and they can actually step in and give you the that You need on on Exchange in 3 to four weeks so the estate agent knows exactly how I'm working but I know how how to work from the estate agent's point of view because you've had a you you've been in a state agent you ran in EST State agents haven't you so you kind of know the problems that they come across you're kind of a lot of the times
correct as if I'm wrong but you're solving a problem that they might come across a certain issue that might happen With the chain or with the vendor you a lot of the time provide a solution by saving the chain purchasing the property doing something on you that's kind of a summary of how you how you work with them isn't it effectively that's that's exactly and there 12 12 specific scenarios that we've identified where provided that we can educate the agent as in we can explain the scenario they will know to contact us so it might
be the case of the chains about to break it Might be do you have any sales that were agreed over four months ago but haven't exchanged yet so they go down their list and they can think that one that one and that one it might be a case of um do you have any properties that are overpriced because it needs too much work which is an assisted sale so by us being very specific with what we're after they can identify it straight away and then bring us the details but from the estate agent point of
view if we can actually say on A dated property that we're happy to pay your client the price that she wants um we're going to do an assisted sale or delayed completion where we refurbish the work from the estate agents point of view now first of all they've got the client the price that they wanted to achieve so there's no conflict of interests they're not going to have to do any viewings they're not going to have to do any sales progression and they understand exactly the timelines Involved and they understand exactly when they're going to
get their fee so now we've just made their lives so much easier because we've we've removed all their workload and got the their client the price that they want and's paid their fee after four weeks it's a win for everybody and and that's a big thing that you talk about on the course is creating win- wins and in that scenario the vendors winning the estate agents winning and you're winning And that's that's exactly what you teach isn't it and and I love the 12 the 12 sort of scenarios is identifying which one is it and
what the solution is for that scenario for that problem and that's something that you talk through on the course isn't it is is how to identify them then what the solutions are for each each one because that was one of the the questions that I'm getting asked quite a bit which is so how do you work with the state ISS how Are you finding this many deals but it's literally a case of contacting the estate agents educating them being specific about what you're looking for and explaining to them a lot of the time via email
that if you come across this this is how I can help that's kind of a summary isn't it it's it's it's educating them and telling them how you can help them effectively help their lendos and them and them as an estate agents that's kind Of how you do it isn't it that's exactly it every property that sells has a scenario either the landlord's selling because he's downscaling either the couple are splitting up so that's why they're selling um a landlord doesn't want to be a landlord that's why they're selling so once you've identified the scenario
what you realize is that there's four or five potential problems with each scenario so there's four or five solutions for those potential Problems so it's really case of it's that's a scenario it's a a rent to rent operator it's a landlord on a rent to rent where they've not been getting any rent you'll say that's one of those the problems he's not been getting any rent he's got no control over his tenants the Solutions I will pay the monthly rent I will take over all the responsibilities so it's just a case of it's one of
those scenarios here's the problems hear the solutions and then the next stage is to Actually communicate that through email so that everybody can actually read exactly what's being put they can consider it in their own time and then they can move forward so once you've identified the scenario you educate the agent on that scenario because all they've got to do is to say we've got one of those scenarios and then they get you the relevant information love that and I think a big part of this also is mindset isn't it it Is about understanding that
this is a a way to do it and a lot of people might be resistant because they think well I've never done that before how do I do that you know why would an agent do this but you're doing it in volume you have for many years a lot of the guys on the current course and previous courses have followed the process that you teach and it's working for them as well it does definitely work it doesn't work for every estate agent of course it's not That easy but it it definitely works for quite a
few of them as long as you educate them in the right way um and it works with the letter agents as well so you know one of the things that we we Advocate is focus initially on letter agencies that don't have a sales department so the trigger point for them to contact you because you've educated them is if you ever have one of your landlords contact you for a desktop valuation or if they contact you to Recommend an agent an estate agent because they know you don't deal in sales you know I picked a block
of flats up just before Christmas and all it was is the the Lettin agent knew that if anybody ever asked for a desktop valuation to ask permission to um pass their contact details on to me an email and then I I took that over and what that was is a block of six Flats um a landlord was selling the fact that the let an agent was making the the referral Made all the difference because it wasn't on the market I got it substantially below market value and they were all tended in compliant and the only
reason that the leton agent contacted me was because I'd shown them how to but they were now going to get management of that block of flats whereas before they weren't any weren't earning any money and there a referral for you know part of the state agency fee as well so that's a letteron agent That doesn't have a sales division that's actually now earning money on their properties um and you know has got a win-win for myself themselves and also the landlord again that that's another great part of what you're teaching I certainly haven't heard other
Educators talking about that is going to the letting agent without sales departments because here are they dealing with the end out landlords and That's they're perfect for number of reasons for sure um we add some questions on letin agans but I think you've kind of answered those um me's yeah I did get asked a question actually the other day about give us an example of a deal from a Lettin agent I know you've answered that with the block of flats there but is there any other sort of typical deals that you would get from a
a Lettin agent yeah I mean the majority of my lease options come from Leton Agents um the benefit of a lease option is that first of all so a lease option for anybody that's not aware is when you take over control over a property and you take control over the mortgage pay ments so the benefit of dealing with the Lettin agents because they've got access to the landlords first of all all the properties are on buy to let mortgages um if they've got a mortgage on them that most of them all are fully Compliant and
they've already got tenants in so they're all cash flowing but if you ever go to an a leton agent and you say you know um do you have any landlords that want to sell they'll always say no because as far as they're concerned you know no none of the landlords have said that they want to sell but what what's happening is the the leony and I know this from you know only in the Leon agency a lot of the landlords are waiting for the tenants to Give notice so that they can then tidy the property
up and start marketing the property but if you go to a Lettin agents and say you know would you contact your landlords to see if they're interested in selling because we're not thinking like a Lettin agent the Lettin agent is going to be saying no now that we are thinking like a Lettin agent we'll realize that that if we buy that property and they lose management they've just lost a fee because they Don't know who we are so what we say to the Lettin agent is you've got a whole database of self-managing landlords and you
don't get paid on those at the moment for any of those properties that I agree a sale on I will give you management plus I'll give you a thank you bonus you know an administration fee so now they're incentivized to actually give you the information and all you need to say is if I put together a professional well- worded email for you To send on my behalf saying that you've got an investor that specializes in buying properties um at market market value with tenants in situ in any condition would you send that through to your
data base and obviously they're not getting paid on those properties at the moment so why wouldn't they that's where the majority of lease options come from it comes from landlords that are self-managing love that and like you say not losing anything they're only gaining Something they're not losing the monthly management which is what they're probably targeted on and their focus is um love that love it's just been so creative so and that's where you'll find that most of the portfolio land land laws come from because portfolio lands tend to manage a lot of their own
and they blow Market rents and once they know that you can take over the property and they can actually plan their disposals into future years that's where All the portfolio LS come out work love that so that's it's the agents and letting agents I've been getting quite a lot of questions about those big part of this which I think is where you are so different and your methods are so different is how much you use email so first of all I want to ask you know why do you prefer using email and negotiating things over
email opposed to face to face or over the telephone Now it's it's a timesaver and now it's a much more effective way of doing it how it originally started though is when I was systemizing it through the estate agency and the leton agency so you know you can teach members of Staff how to use emails and email templates and scripts then it really came down to the fact that most of your deals will be done in the evening and this is when the vendors have access to the email when they're sit at home with a
glass of wine And you know they're sitting there with their partner and they can ask you questions so if we're talking about a delayed completion or I'm asking you know how long is left on the mortgage they'll give me that information um if you're trying to explain how a delayed completion or some sort of creative structure works then they can reread it in their own time without any pressure and they'll send you a question and then you can send Them an answer so they're in a more comfortable environment but now it really comes down to
the fact that that it's speed as long as I've got similar situations you've already got the email templates there to start off the dialogue um and even dealing with agents one of the problems that most people um experience when they're trying to explain say a lease option or assisted sale or a Crea a deal to an estate agent is the estate agent doesn't understand It and if they don't understand it they won't feel comfortable putting that offer forward and that's why when you often say to an estate agent you start talking about a creative deal
and they'll say straight away no the vendor only wants a straight sale that's because the estate the agent doesn't really know how to communicate it so by putting everything in the email sending on to the agent and asking the agent to forward it on minus your email Address you've now taken that fear away from them and when their client asks them a question they'll send you the question so that you can communicate through them and that's how you start getting the high conversion rate through the estate agents because you're using email and to build a
thread I mean I must admit before I came across yourself and and and learned the way you do things I was almost against Email I was like better in person you know I can I can sell better I communicate better in person over the telephone but I have learned that it it reduces it red actually reduces objections because when you're doing it over the telephone they're more likely to say well what do you mean how does that work but what happens if this happens when the actually read an email properly and digest it I think
it they just understand it a little bit better And you you still get some objections but I think it actually reduces the objections that you get by doing it on email um and I love the fact that you're do it on on an evening less pressure they're less you know up a height maybe if they're busy at work and they get a phone call you might just catch them at the wrong time it's typically when they're a little bit more relaxed and a little bit more calm hence the responses tend to be a Little bit
better um but a lot of people say you know so how do you get the vendors email address is a common thing because a lot of the time you'd you do it sometimes via the estate agent course but a lot of people say to me well how do you get the vendors email addresses to start the negotiations so what would you say to that yeah I mean I'm in a little bit of a different position now because i' I've built relationships up with agents the kind of the trust is There anyway but if I was
to see um a property on the market with an estate agent that I just don't gel with then what I'm going to do is I'm going to put a letter through the door okay and the letter is just going to say that I'm happy to go through the estate agent um however I've seen seen enough details to be able to make you an offer um for me to forward you my my detailed offer would you please send me your email address okay very very rarely will you Not be contacted sometimes you'll get an email saying
can you go through the agent yeah but more often than not because that in your letter you're saying I'm happy to go to the agent but it's I find it quicker to deal direct to begin with you're giving the the um you're giving the vendor the decision on what they do and normally they they just want the offer from you so they'll give you the email address I'm not I'm giving my phone number but I'm not relying on My phone I'm actually saying please email me because again it takes the pressure off them if it's
through an estate agent um initially you you'll be emailing through them so you put the email together to them forward on once you get to the point where they know that a deal is going to get done you're already registered with them so they're fees kind of secure and all you need to do is just say you know we've been emailing through each other would you Ask permission for me to have the vendor's email address so we can email direct and I will copy you in so if it's at a certain stage they'll be happy
to do that yeah now if you're doing um a viewing and the vendors at the property and no estate agents around it's just the case if I would really like to put an offer forward tonight the estate agent isn't open would you mind if I email my offer and I'll copy the agent in if you want me to so you've got the Email address off that vendor now if you do a viewing and the estate agent is present and you're definitely interested in this property and you know you're going to put an offer forward just
jump in and say to the vendor I really I really like the property I'm just going to run the final figures but I would like to email you my offer this evening copying the agent in because they close um they'll be closed by 9:00 when I email you my offer and because you've Come straight out with it the estate agent's in a spot now yeah and more often than not they'll agree between themselves um as long as you're happy to have the email sent to you and you copy them in and it's so easy to
get the email address it really is just a mind mindset shift that you've got to think my whole objective here and anything to do with property just to get the vendor's email address address and I'll take everything to Email love that yeah and it's spot on it does it does definitely work I've seen you do it and I've seen others do it again it's just a mindset thing if you believe that you're not going to be able to get vendor's email addresses you're not going to be able to get them you've just got to have
the self-belief in the mainset share first learn the methods youve got the mindset and you've got the methods then the rest is just taking action that's how that isn't it um which Is exactly what you teach which is which is great so moving on from um moving on from emails um assisted sales we're getting lots of questions about I don't know about you I certainly am um everything from whats an assisted sale how' you find them tell us about them all of this because they're a great strategy a lot of the time it's low money
down um or lower money down than a traditional route and there's still some nice profit in there so what is an Assisted sale in your own words insisted sale is is the most profitable way to flip a property so flipping a property you basically buying the property you're refurbishing it and then you're going to sell it on a profit the problems with the standard flip is that say it's a 00,000 property you're tying up £200,000 you're paying your 3% stand Duty you've tied up your money for for all the time until it resells so everything's
hammering away at your Margins an assisted sale is Terry you want 200,000 I'm going to guarantee you two 200,000 and I have to complete or I have to the property has to sell within the next 6 months or nine months you're happy because you're going to get your 200,000 but I've not bought the property I've agreed to pay the 200,000 and now what I'm going to do in that nemon period is I'm going to pay for the refurbishment and then I'm going to put It on the market with an estate agent and sell it so
I flip the property but the big difference is I've not had to buy it so I've not paid any stamp Duty so my full investment is just the cost of the refurbishment and if it's a big refurbishment and I joint venture with the contractor and the contractor does all the work and pays for all the work I'm literally flipping a property for half of the legal fees which is about £580 so it's the most profitable way to Flip a property the beauty of assisted sales though when working with the state agencies it's very very easy
to explain to them because we think like estate agents now so Mr estate agent you know this property is overpriced it needs too much work but I know why you've done that because that vendor told you a price that she wants and you know if you don't take it on at that price it's going to Go to one of your competitors so you now you know that you've probably got 12 or 13 weeks to sell it to try and get it to reduce the price and if it doesn't sell you're still going to lose it
it's on at 200,000 would would your client accept 190 or close to 190 I bet you would okay this is what I'm going to suggest I'm going to agree to buy 19,000 the property for £190,000 now if I refurbish this property put a new kitchen and a new bathroom in as an Estate agent would you say that this will sell quickly on first or second viewing for more than £190,000 of course it would well that's what we're doing I'm taking the risk I'm doing the refurbishing I'm going to remarket with you remarket it with you
so you get another fee and anything above 190,000 I keep but your client gets the 190,000 you get the fee on Exchange in three to four weeks for selling it for Her in six or seven months time when you resell it for me you're going to get another fee but what's happened here is you're not having to do viewings you're not having to upset your vendor with bad feedback that it's priced too high and everybody can move on can you understand how that works works so you understand it and then you say I'm going to
put an email together that explains all that for you to forward on to your client is that okay and then that's It simple as that and it is simple and people are making it sound complicated the the concept of assisted sales but when you break it down in the way you just did it's nice and simple for the estate agent to understand and you're going to send a nice and simplified email that's well worded that they can send on to the vendor as well the vendor gets the price that he wants the agent gets sometimes
two fees um and you're making a profit Um if I could just Terry because I mean I know there's a lot of people that go direct to vendor the way that you would actually say this you know to to the vendor just say you it's it's a lovely property it's got great potential but I think what's likely to happen is people are going to say it needs too much work or it's priced to too high or they want something ready to move straight into now if that does happen or if it's already happened here's my
email here's My contact number give me a call when the time's right because there may be a um there may be a way I can offer you close to the price that you want but by all means give it give it time but if you find that you're getting that feedback it needs too much work give me a call because there's a way that I can offer close to the asking price so you've sewn the seed and at some point when she starts getting all that feedback she'll make that call she'll Drop me the email
and it will be along the lines of you mentioned that you might be able to pay me close to the asking price and then you just explain as you did with the agent and how you're going to pay that price definitely I love that and and again K youve can answered a little bit but um how do you or how would you advise others find assisted sales oh uh The first of all they're easy to identify if they're online so if they're on right move for instance what you're going to be doing is ideally you're
looking for a dated property a larger property um so if you think of like a family home where all the kids have moved away and the parents haven't spent much on it so it's it needs a refurbishment and they're looking at downsizing now you're looking ideally for properties that are empty and that Are dated which you'll see from the photographs now the reason that they stand out is that in Nottingham for instance where I invest if anything comes on the market under 180,000 that needs work it will get snapped up but anything sort of £300,000
which is technically a flip investors will stay away because it's too much money to tie up they're paying the stamp Duty and buy to let investors don't go after it because um It won't cash flow and owner occupies won't go after it because it needs too much work so when you hit that level of your dated larger properties you've got no competition at all so what's a vendor going to say to you when you offer them an assisted sale so that's the easiest way to see them standing out that they've been on the market more
than a couple of months or more often than not you'll see them come back onto the market so I use property filter and it Gives you all that information so you'll see the property come back on the market and it's just a case off you're going in there because it's not sold for the reasons that you understand you know you know what the problems are you know what the solution on that so it's the easiest way if it's through an estate agent um if you have a valuation for any property and as soon as you're
there you realize it's not going to sell at that price because it needs too much work but if it Was refurbished it could sell it a lot more give me a call there's a way that I can offer the offer your client the purchase price or very very close to it before it even goes on the market and I will exchange within four weeks so again the agent now knows exactly what you're looking for and you're the first one that comes to mind when they it's not even when they get to the property they'll know
when they're completing the valuation form behind their desk that That's too too overpriced yeah definitely so you're finding them on Market um you're educating agents on what you're looking for in these certain scenarios where you can help and it's it's about a price point as well to be aware of depending on the location that you're in um and they're definitely out there we've already had people in The Mastermind group that were running currently find them yeah um in different locations Northeast and South so um they're everywhere for sure can I just touch on that as
well just because you just mentioned somebody in the group they've not always got to be expensive properties that you know yourself there was somebody where um the vendor had already agreed a sale with the auction company so she was already getting the money within 28 days but you know what our group member was allowed to do because of the profit margins is to Offer her more than she was at the auction house through an assisted sale so it's a it's a win-win you know he's covered the fees he's making a good amount of profit on
it but more importantly he's got the vendor more money than she'd already agreed so she's even though she'd sold it through an auction but it hadn't completed so you know assisted sales can be used everywhere wherever you're thinking of flipping the Property definitely and it's again very much mindset and as long as you're positioning it correctly via email using the scripts and templates that we share with them it works um for sure um yes we talked about assist TS how we find them what is in assisted sale and how we'll find them so moving on
to lease options again we'll get asked a lot of questions about these because again some people think they're really complicated some people explain them Completely wrong and a lot of people just don't know how to do them they don't have this tool at their disposal and in reality it's one of the best tools I know you use them a lot more than may use them pretty heavily um but what type of properties would you I mean we we've explained in previous episode what is a lease option if you don't know what a lease option is
watch back you know any one of the podcasts that we've done together we've explained It what type of properties would you say lease options work the best on they work on absolutely any properties um because we're not really looking at the property we're looking at the scenario so why is the vendor selling that property and that's the scenario because with that scenario comes a certain amount number of properties normally four to five we know the four to five solutions to those problems a lease option allows us to provide those Solutions where a straight sale wouldn't
so if somebody um hasn't got much Equity or you know they're in negative equity so let's just say that they they owe £5,000 if they sold the property they're not going to have any money going into their pocket so through a straight sale they're actually in a worse position if I do a 5year lease option so I'm going to get 5 years worth of rent and 5 years worth of capital appreciation I can afford to pay them more than the current Market value if I wanted to so now I'm actually putting them in a better
position than if they'd actually sold it in fact more often than not they can't afford to sell it at that price we've used lease options on a hotel which was a rent to rent gone wrong you know they weren't the owner wasn't receiving any rent so what what we said is you know we will make the monthly payments to you and we we took a hotel um a block of 11 Flats you know all on lease options the Scenario there was a landlord was retiring and she was facing huge capital gains tax so by using
the lease option we were allowed to get her another 98,000 worth of allowances so if she'd sold it she wouldn't have had the 98,000 tax allowances through a lease option we could give her that so again we' put her in a better position than had she been through so it's absolutely any kind of property it's always the scenario that you look at and I not actually come Across one yet where you can't do a lease option on it if as long as you know how to communicate it and this is key and this is why
some people say that lease options don't work is because one they don't know the solutions that they offer but number one the number one reason is that they not they don't know how to communicate the Solutions in a way that the the vendor thinks you know that's really interesting that's going to work for me that's where the skill Comes and that's again why we use email templates because the templates are there you're just changing the numbers and the number of years and I think you've said it before and and I've I've done this as well
I've tried to verbally explain a lease option to somebody and if you say the word lease option not exchange with delay completion try to explain it it doesn't normally go well does it the second say Le option it definitely doesn't go well Emailers is the key it leads you into it so you know um even if you're when I first learned about lease options in 2012 and they were talking about babysitting mortgages and this is how you were doing it I remember sitting there thinking this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever it sounds childish it's like
you know you're condescending what went through my devious mind at the time was I could make a really defensive low offer and Before they kick me out say but there might be a way I can actually offer you a higher price with a delayed completion yeah and then you've given them something to think about and literally back from 2012 I've always used that line there may be a way that I can offer you closer to that asking price there may be a way I can offer higher and what they've done is there they're now open
to listening to what you're suggesting or what you're Emailing them yeah and then you just you know ask a couple of relevant questions but yeah it's all to do with the fact that um you've now got a tool that you can offer solutions that nobody else can but more importantly that the vendors or the agents didn't even realize was a possibility and when you say it to the right agent and and the penny drops and they get it you can just actually see the property addresses going through Their mind in the back of their eyes
thinking she would probably do that that would work there yeah so it's just a case of yeah making them aware educating them in the right way using the right terminology and words yeah for sure and how would you because you know you can make a little bit of profit or you can make a good amount of profits these lease options is there any tips that you've got for optimizing the profit on the lease Option yeah I mean it depends on the property depends on your investment plan um the main advantage of lease options is first
of all you're not putting so much money into the deal so your returns a lot higher but everybody's a little bit different I would say at least 80% of all the options I do I follow the same format in that I'm agree in a term normally three five or plus years I'm going to rent it out in that period of time and then at some point there's Going to be a trigger event it might be the tenants moving out it might be I've got a buyer um and then I'll test the market or if the
property needs a refer bment I'll refurbish it and what I personally like to do is put tenants in at a premium rent because it's now refurbished and then sell it through an estate agent to an investor so at some point within the term I own it say it's five years I will sell it without owning um if the larger Properties or Something I want as long-term asset then what I'll do is um say it's a sevene option is up to seven years I will complete on it myself at the original price and then what I'll
do is I'll refinance it straight away and get all my money out so that's one where I'm going to actually hold um but to give you a number that to give you an idea of the numbers then there's a block of flats that I did tit of split 11 properties they were all acquired Through lease options and the total uplift of the Flats on the title splits was 880,000 and that was by using lease options yeah so the money can be St in um the longer the the term the better because if I've got a
5year lease option I've had 60 rent payments um I've had some rent increases the Market's gone up you know there's there's been other things that I've not been able to um sort of uh forecasts that have happened that have pushed the price up so you've Got multiple streams of income on the same transaction and I went through one an example the other day on um it was a chain break actually that if this is a leasee option I agreed if you sourced it on you could get between 7 and £10,000 sourcing fee if You' flipped
it you would have made I think it was £23,000 if you um done a b bbr BR on it you would have got £ 28,000 the lease option got you £17,000 because of all the different Multiple streams of income so when you see it like that in front of you it's a bit of a no-brainer why you would want to do a lease option rather than just taking the quick £23,000 an hour depending on your investment plan of course yeah yeah something else has just sprung to mind when you were talking there is I remember
a while back you said to me you haven't purchased a property in the traditional sense as in 25% deposit 75% Mortgage Debt for quite A few years and everyone has been creative is that is that still the Kee would you like to elaborate on that um I bought I bought a block of flats where it was a combination so I did a couple of normal purchases sometimes it works in your favor to buy normally um normally Cash Title splits is a big example because if you buy cash um you're uplifting the value so quickly and
buy so much that you'll get all of your money out with the refinance it Makes no sense to to do a lease option on it all the time or or to use Finance um but I can't think of of one that I've bought tenant buy options I I bought three using normal Finance because I knew that I was packaging them up for tenant buy options but for myself for my own portfolio no I can't it's it's too slow it's too expensive it's too cumbersome but at the end of the day when you look at the
mortgage fees involved and and all the all the Hoops I can't I can't understand why anybody wouldn't do a lease option apart from they don't necessarily know how but as you know yourself um I'm absolutely staggered Gob smack to the point if a vendor or an agent ever says no to what I'm suggesting as a as a lease option proposal because I know the benefits for the vendor the benefits for the agent the problem is they've not fully understood that yet so when you've got that level of expectancy you wouldn't Even think about trying to
buy with Finance because you are Gob smacked if they say no to to release option because it is generally better for them it's better for them and it's better for you A lot of the time you put less money down yes you'll use cash in things if you have to but I just on this point I think a big a big sort of thing that attracts me to the way you do things Mark is it is it is literally the PO opposite to to most people most people 25% deposit 75% debt traditional then they sometimes
get into hmos sometimes get into BR using bridging and things it's it's the complete opposite that's the last kind of result opposed to the first result for you it's creativity first low money down sometimes no money down first maximizing profit but at the same time still creating a win for vendors still creating a a win for estate agents as well as yourself it is the complete opposite and I think that's Why the lifestyle investor methods and program is doing so well and there's so many people trying to join at the moment it's because it is
s it is a new way it is a different way to do it which is better for everybody involved in the process yeah if if you think about it um if I'm not paying like a humongous product Fe you now which people have told me you know can be anything not sort of 71,000 on a buy toet mortgage added to the loan so you paying interest The interest rates or the additional costs and the 25% I can save a lot more money even if it means I pay the vendor £10,000 more than I need to
okay so if you're the vendor and I'm offering you £10,000 more than anybody else you would buy my hand off and I'm happy to do it because I'm actually saving that from not buying it the traditional way and all those examples you've just given about you know the brr and the hmos we've done Them all with lease options I can't think of a a property we've not used lease options on because it's not the property it's the scenario it's the vendor circumstances that what's that's what makes the difference I love that that's a massive take
away from if anyone's wondering about the course or the program like it is every strategy that you currently interested in or that you currently do there's a VAR variation of doing that strategy Using the creativity so you can if you're a HMO investor you can still do hmos using lease options and everything else if you're a buet investor you can still lose use lease options and everything else to do that not even to mention the way that you raise money fund a lot of these purchases um there's just a lot of different ways to do
this kind of the same thing you're doing now the naysay is or the most common and we always find this from people that Just join the program is um what if they don't have a mortgage you know because the the benefit of the lease option is you're taking over their mortgage payments okay I've done I've done lease options on people with no mortgages so if somebody's got A2 200,000 house for instance so if they sell it let's just say that they get £200,000 what are you going to do with that that money Mr vendor it's
going to be in your bank account yeah okay what if instead Of just selling it that we agree a fiveyear delayed completion I'll pay £200,000 but for that five years I will pay you six seven or eight% on that 200,000 Equity so now you've got 8% interest on that equity in your property so now they're actually making money off that property which is a lot more than if they'd sold it and paid all the costs and had it sitting in the bank yeah but This is the key because um it's a sale price yeah so
they've actually getting them you can you know pay them interest or you can if it's a larger property you can say I'll pay you ,000 a month so the th000 a month is coming off the purchase price similar to what we've done for a hotel and a block of flats is that you know we pay you £1,000 a month and it comes off the purchase price so they're accessing ,000 a month but it's not income is part of the purchase price so They're not paying income tax on it and the time that they pay the
capital gains tax on it is when they finally sell it in five years time so they're accessing money in a tax efficient manner and I've got an interest free loan based on the equity and they've got no mortgage so again a win-win on a property that everybody thought couldn't do a lease option on because he's no mortgage again it's mindset it's what it's what you're it's it's when you're showing the light You know it's when you're sh because there's so many preconceptions about lease options and they're so misunderstood at the end of the day it's
a solution where you it's a solution you can offer anybody love it it makes me want to learn more about them and so exciting um so another big thing I'm just conscious of time another common thing that I'm being asked and I think again another point of sort of Difference with with yourself Mark to others I understand that you know you don't view properties maybe's explain why you don't view properties in person um some of it is down to experience but um most of it is I mean I invest in in Nottingham so I know
I know the streets I know the areas I know the building tipes but you could do this in any country if you're if you think you're you're Buying through a Lettin agent for instance first of all there's tenants in the property that could do a video walk around you know you can see all the compliance documents and at the end of the day you know depending on the type of property you you kind of know there's no major disrepair issues in the property so what I'm what am I actually going to view also the deal
tends to be so good um and so flexible that even if I did come across something that was Wrong is kind of already been reflected in the price you know um the hotel for instance what is it seeing Hotel apart from the cor of all the bed sheets and the the towels you know there was no need to go and view that you could just see what you needed to do from the website I would always recommend that people do go and look at the properties for peace of mind but after a while you'll get
you'll start to understand that they'll also think there's there's No real Point most people view properties because the agent says that they've got view properties before they can put the offer in but but that's not right that's not correct the reason thinking like an estate agent is the reason they want you to view the property is so that you don't go back later and view it and then start renegotiating say you didn't realize this much work was needed so what you need to say to the estate agent is would You just you know pass this
on to the vendor this is my offer if this is accepted I will then go around and view the property or send somebody around but I'm not going to do that until the offer is accepted because it's just wasting everybody's time and they'll understand that and then they they'll let you view the property so you don't really need to view the properties before you buy it um and it's said if you're buying through estate agents if you've educated estate Agents as well they're getting you photographs of things like closeup of the windows fuse boards um
the um boiler anything that they think would help you make a decision because they don't want you to pull out either so very very limited when you do really need to go and view a property the only time I would do is if there was a problem tenant in it and that's really more to do with sizing up the tenant um rather than anything else because I I I want to Make sure that I'm buying with a tenant I can either work with or get them out of the property yeah makes complete sense again I
think it's a mainset thing obviously if you feel more comfortable viewing it then view it but if you think about it logically of the time you don't really need to view it sorry at one point I did miss that t another reason why people view the property is to cost up the works but you Know what we teach is that you can you can work out the costs remotely for the point of negotiation so if if you know I know what a TW bed Terrace house looks like in that particular area I can phone up
a couple of roofing contractors to get price for a roof I can phone up a window contractor how much would Windows on this size property cost Plastering electrics you can work all these out remotely start building your own schedule of rates so that you know Whenever there's a two-bedroom house this is what it's all going to cost me worst case scenario and then from the photographs and with your schedule you can kind of estimate the works and reflect it in your price because remember we're not viewing unless our offer is being accepted so if they're
not meeting our price anyway again there's no point in viewing the property we do it all from our laptop and I think that's where I think that's The way a lot of things are going a lot of this new generation a lot of newer investors that that that want to do things from the laptop that you don't want to be certainly if you're investing out of your area they really want to be traveling two or three hours to do viewings for it not to go ahead is another way and it is this lifestyle investor way
protecting any time most importantly doing things smarter and doing things in a way That you can leverage other people and you can leverage templates you can leverage emails you you can you can do things that save you time and still get the result that you want a lot of the time the results actually better than than doing it the traditional way so I think I think it's fantastic way and I think that's why we're inated with questions because it because it is so different um what I'd also like to ask is could you could you
sort of highlight Any major wins that any of your Mastermind members have had uh because I know you've ran the course for for a few years now is anybody that jumps to mind who's had a fantastic career since then or any big wins during the courses you've done previously yeah I mean I don't want to mention names and some some people are known on on social media as well so I don't want to be too obvious but um there's been a few joint ventures um at the right time that's Made a lot of money and
you know one of the things I always say about joint ventures is you do them on a property by property basis you don't tie yourselves into long-term Partnerships because at some point your goals will change so you know I can think of four or five JVS that have worked really really well um and that's between members on on The Mastermind we've had several people negotiate on their first portfolios through lease options there's been so Many this is my first lease option this is my first assisted sale so many times where people have started raising Finance
for the first time because we do it a little bit different we make it a lot easier for them um one of my favorites is um before they started the program the the wife was going on maternity leave and one of her goals was she didn't want to go back to work and she never went back to work you know and now her partner is now looking at giving His workup because of how things have gone he got a great deal being negotiated there um yeah it's more to do with the financial wins are there
you know um and I'm not taking anything away from that but for me the real wins are that the pennis dropped and the realized that they were investing or thought investing the way that they were was the right way and suddenly it's it's um come across that there's different ways to do it there's easier ways to do it and you Know the first set after the first group the second group I said to them don't if you've got any deals going through now I will guarantee you that sort of like halfway through the course you
will wish that you hadn't have done those deals because you'll realize there better ways um and then going forward it's the case stop doing deals now because you'll see and that's the general feedback is that I wish I hadn't have done that deal or I'm pulling out to this one because it Doesn't make any sense because why would you tie up you know £100,000 when you could probably do you know I don't know 10 lease options using that money so it's more to do with seeing that their plans changed seeing that they are valuing their
time a little bit more now um and that they are it's when they see that first deal and the whole group lights up because now they think it's possible and then that's where the competition starts and that's where Momentum starts to build so yeah I mean this there's lots of examples of of the wins but it's more to do with the mindset is completely different by the end of the program than it is at the beginning start I mean I've seen that since we've sort of joined Venture on this this new offering uh I've seen
that most of the group probably overall so majority of them have said like this is so different I think about this different now I would have went for that Previously but now I wouldn't do that I would only do this some of them are raising money that that's we're not even halfway through as you know and they've raised 1.3 million between them and a lot of these people have never even raised any money before L these are newbies but on the flip side of that coin there's people in that group who've been in property you
know over 10 years they've got substantial amounts of assets behind them they also Experiencing oh my God like I've been doing it wrong for x amount of years now are going forward I think completely different so it's not just for newbies it's for experienced and quite highly experienced people also and we proved that in this group some of them with you know a lot of a lot of experience and a lot of property experience behind them they're changing their ways as well and they're also raising more money using using the templates and things so it's
Um what's different is that what I've noticed as well is that they're I'm confident in how why they're raising the money you know they're just not going to blow it on a flip you know or brr because now they're more educated what they can actually use that money for so it's not a case where they're putting any money's money at risk you know I'm a lot more confident in what they're doing with the property and and just going Back to you know the winds especially with the experienced people is that there's been more there's got
to be at least 10 people I can think of off the top of my head where they've agreed large portfolios and we're talking sort of like 203 40 there was one 62 property portfolio and the problem is because obviously we've got the experience and we've got the hindsite we know that they can do an option on them but you've got to hold them back because you're trying To explain to them L you've agreed lease options you they are good deals but you're going to have 62 properties Landing in your portfolio in one go I don't
think you're up to the logistics of that at the moment so you know it's not not it's not just how do they do the deal it's you know you've got to then work with the properties to work on the exits and then that's how we kind of support them but you have got to sometimes hold them back because when Say a portfolio arrives and you can suddenly do lease options on it you get hungry for it but it's a case of you know slow down to speed up a little bit you know get that experience
under your belt I mean I'm excited but I'm having to hold back as well so yeah yeah in your right once you learn how to negotiate this way it does open up a load more options because you're not limited by your funds if you then learn how to raise money in volume And how to use that money as well as how to raise that money it opens up a whole new category of assets that you can look at and obviously sometimes it isn't right for that individual at that time but we also guide them through
you know building your investment plan and understanding why you're buying properties what type of properties are right for you at your stage and and and that I think brings Clarity and it actually makes because I Experienced this when we first met was once you've got that Clarity of exactly what you want to invest in and why instead of trying to do all things all at the same time it actually makes it easier to find deals because you're narrowing your search down opposed to looking at everything you're looking at a specific criteria um in a location
or at a price point or with this type of scenario actually makes it easier to find deals once you look once you work This out as well um so yeah I love it man I'm really enjoying it um I know that the group I mean we just I've just been interviewing actually some of the current members and do their podcasts are going to go live about their experience and um you haven't heard these yet but they'll be coming out live soon so complimentary um and you can literally see it in the face and hear it
in their voice what it's done for them and not we're not even halfway through And these These are experienced guys also so it's um it's great to see and I'm excited for the next group launching soon launching end of June starts um yeah I'm excited for for the next group and seeing how many other people we can have so um there anything you like to add Mark as a final note over cover everything no no I mean I sort of I'm just really enjoying what we're doing at the moment um the biggest thing is you
know what I'm like I'm sort of like an Armchair invest you're the the building of the Empire's man so but I think that it works really really well with us together and we've got different types of audiences people want the lifestyle but what you you know what you can show them is that there's different ways of doing it you know and and what I if I can get anything over to people at the moment this is from hindsight you know I've been doing this I'm 52 now I've been doing this for 20 plus years um
and A lot of the people that come on to the programs program now they sort of like you know parents they've got the young children with hindsight I can I can see now what they should have done what I should have done yeah so if I could actually go back knowing what I know now and I would invest as I invest now you know the the journey would be so much quicker you would literally be investing from home because we do everything from the lap top my kids have all got up well My 17y old
and my 22y old have done lease options my even my 13-year-olds given Angel Finance out because they can hide behind I've had to sign the agreements so you're teaching your children but they're picking up what you're doing at home because you're at home more um so it's not a case of I need so many properties you know used to say I need 10 20 properties to be able to leave my job you don't you perhaps need two or three lease options you just Need one hotel which is a 23 3,000 lease option anybody could have
done that and then they could have given up their job you know it brings in a few thousand a month guaranteed so going back you know if I could send that message to anybody if you invest as a lifestyle investor the right way already start having in Your Vision that you will be working from home the choice is whether you want to go to work or not and this isn't just a get-rich quick scheme I'm saying it's A lifestyle it's a different way of investing yeah I completely agree and that opened my mind to it
a lot because I was like you say the Empire Builder I was like I want more companies I want more staff I want more chaos and I embraced it and I loved it and then you know some people can do that for a long period of time I did it for a good 10 years and it does take its toll eventually when you start to learn there is another way to make just as much Money and progress just as much and still achieve the things that you want in life but doing it from who or
doing it from a way that's less stressful and takes less time and happens quicker you know who wouldn't want that who wouldn't want this outcome that you desire right now getting there in a quicker way with less stress less hustle less chaos is it is that is that way and just picking up what you said about you know We are different and you know we're raised money in different ways we raise money in the same way I do suffer from socials you do slightly different where we teach both methods in The Mastermind program we teach
the way that we both buy properties the way we both negotiate things whether that's in person over the phone or on email we show you both ways and 50 you know marks where being in properly longer than me he's 52 in the way I do it at 35 it is slightly Different there's an age difference obviously there's there's loads and loads of things that we're aligned on so members are seeing both Roots you know the the wiser more experienced of Mark and the lazier is yeah yeah maybe it's the more energetic version you know where
I'm happy to put all the Graft in but you see him both and then you can pick and choose which one's best for you and you maybe want to take element to Mark Element me or whatever sort of Floy board but that was that was that came across in every interview that I've did actually everybody said that we are different but we'll complement each other and motivating everybody and sending the voice notes doing accountability as well as teaching stuff you're teaching all your methods with all the templates and scripts they're getting kind of the best
of both but I think we've um I think we've blown the Trump quite a bit today we don't really need to see anymore the results do do the talken as well and you'll see a lot of those coming on social media over the coming weeks and months so um well thank you again I hope all the listeners have enjoyed that and we've answered a lot of the the commonly asked questions um and thank you for your time as always my friend thank you very much thank you very much Terry J have a good day
