well first of all I would like to say that wherever we see suffering wherever we see death and destruction especially of young people assault sexual assault we see dtz to the rescue the former defense attorney of Jeffrey Epstein a man himself accused I knew we would get to that I knew I I didn't give you permission to interrupt me I didn't give you permission to interrupt me I quiet when you were talking okay here's what I would say I stay quiet hang hang on here's what I would say to the Merit listen Muhammad attacking a
lawyer defending people is a stupid argument well not making an argument yes wait but you're just using an ad attack straight off the top has he got leverage on you is that he's he's a brilli saw your picture of Maxwell he's got leverage on you he's a brilliant lawyer are you saying that because he's got leverage on I met gay Maxwell for 5 minutes at a book launch you look very happy with her do you condemn dtz for what for defending EP I'm being proud of Defending EP there not for me to Defan you defend
yourself why should he defend himself for 20 seconds Alan can defend himself let me speak for more than 20 seconds I helped to defend I've helped to defend some of the finest people in the world and I've also helped defended he was not proud defending joh the way as he he was proud of Defending EP this got to do with is this has got to do with the fact that this man The credibility of this he defends Israel on the one hand and on the other hand he defends Epstein I think the public should know
this want me to play you want me to play the CPS Mohammad do you want me to play the clips of you do the rounds on social media saying some very inflammatory things why you not looking at me cuz I'm looking look at me I'm I'm right here turn to you then the viewers see me and you looking look at me man to man fine look at me man look at my eyes it's called an aesthetic thing for videos okay now the first thing I wanted to say was that this man's cred is something which
is shocking that is even we're even ENT what you Bas on on the fact that he actually defended Epstein and after the fact he said he was proud of it he was in Epstein's vicinity he was in Epstein's vicinity he had a massage in his vicinity this is the kind of person that we're having on the show defending Israel that's the first thing I want to say the second thing is in the first interaction where me and you were talking about October the 7th we spent about 3 or 4 minutes actually talking about sexual assault
allegations if you remember that and actually here what we have is Israeli soldiers like me from unit 100 and that's on the guardian it's on Sky News it's on all these kinds of platforms coming out and there's videographic evidence of him raping another man I haven't heard condemnation from you and I don't expect to hear it from him who defended epine but this is the this shows you the bias the bias in the coverage for a year well we know the icj have said that there's a plausible genocide you haven't been watching my show I
think I have no you haven't have you spoken about me you're talking complete [ __ ] okay tell me why right tell me why because hey I did condemn what you've just talked about in a previous debate good D do you condemn it yes of course I condemn any rape of anybody in any assault on anybody who's in captivity and you also condemn the right of rape the right of rape protest that took place in Israel and you acknowledge that there's a problem in is place they will be investigated they will be fully investigated they
will be Court you that there's a problem in isra is convicted of that they deserve their youge that there's a problem what about the problem with Hamas raping women I have no compunction I have no compunction uh condemning Hamas for anything that they've done you've said that you've asked me before and I've told you before I have no moral scruple neither do the majority of the Muslim world I tell you now anything that Hamas has done we have condemned in the first instance but we're not seeing the same level of coverage with Hamas as we
are seeing with these people that are shoving rods of people's ass and raping people on videographic evidence and you have 3,000 people you talk about the hostages you got 3,000 people in essentially captivity according to Human Rights Watch and bet Salem who are prisoners of War of Israel and we are spending a fraction of the time speaking about them as compared to speaking about the hostages this shows you the inherent there's no comparison there's no comparison between innocent hostages who did nothing wrong and people who are being charged with criminal offenses they're not charged with
criminal offenses that's why you me to know better you're me to know better they're not chared with criminal offenses they're not charged with criminal off comp they are arrested charge you comp arrested they not charged with criminal shout each other we can't hear the lying to the allow him to respond somebody who's a member of Hamas say sorry Adam we couldn't hear you cuz he was shouting I was shouting say he says the 3,000 you can't compare he say 3,000 Alan just to be clear he said the 3,000 people he's talking about were all arrested
without charge and therefore they're not they've not been charged with crimes your response to that well if they were they should be released nobody should be arrested without charge if you're H for security reason I want it's uncensored good boy let me let me make my point my point can I make my point let me make my point Great Britain can find tens of thousands of people without charges during the second world war two wrongs make right at the moment Alan dtz is being very civilized in the way he's Deb I'm sure you're going to
say that you're just making attacks and shouting all the time friend no one can understand it when you met him before I know Alan well oh you know him well I respect him very much oh yes you do he's one of America's top lawyers his top lawyers ah Aha and you're unbiased person here on an unbiased person about Alan d why does he have leverage on you appears morg there's no leverage on me no you've got a picture with Maxwell yes with G you go to the island no I've never been to the island I've
never met Jeffrey EP be honest I never spent more than 5 minutes with G meell I've answered you so what part of that want do you condemn him being on the island he's your good friend you can ask about Jeffrey EP you had a represented him he said he didn't take his shorts off you know what none of got anything to do with Israel he said he didn't take his shorts off when he was getting a mass please muhamad why is this uncomfortable it's nothing to do with the debate take a short but he's got
his pants down now hasn't he can you stop it what's the point why one of the most obnoxious people in the last 100 years why should I stop actually what is going on right now in the middle east is incredibly important you have this man who you are trivializing the if you didn't want to do a debate don't agree to do it who said I'm not want to do a debate I'm saying this person who's defending is stupid that homonym attacks he pathetic oh oh okay all right he's your good friend you want to defend
him so much what are you talking about you're defending him huh you're defending him you're defending a monster pervert an old pervert he's not a pervert or a monster why is he not he knew Epstein and for us there's good in why are you doing this Muhammad why not let's talk about Iran let's talk about Iran fantastic okay do you support Iran okay well let me answer your question Iran was attacked on April the 1st right it was attacked the embassy of Iran was attacked in Syria by Israel after that on the first occasion they
then sent missiles and drones correct now my question to you is does Iran have a right to defend itself and if so what is a proportionate response because you I've been getting I've been having a moral quandry about the issue appears Morgan what's a proportionate response for Iran I tell you what I think about Iran I think Iran is an unbelievably nefarious place which has been fueling Hamas the hooes hea years with a joint does right to a joint ideology that they want to iate Israel in any way they can I think Iran is one
of the most despicable in the world I also think that right now the Iranian regime is in serious danger you look completely discombobulated what do you mean you look disheveled I'm telling you what I think of Iran I'm asking you do they have a right to defend themselves do do you think they have a right to defend themselves both of you can answer the question do they have a right to defend they were attacked The Sovereign Nation was attacked my question is does it have a right to Iran has been fueling ATT on Israel now
for what 40 years been having a moral country about I've been having a moral about Iran have you yeah moral qu yes moral qu I don't know do they have a right to defend themselves and if so what is the proportionate resp you're supporting Iran to be clear I'm asking you no I'm not supporting I'm antithetical to many of these organizations for my own purposes but my question to do you support the Iranian regime not unconditionally but I I support their right what conditions do you agree with them about their right to defend themselves do
you believe they have the right to defend themselves uh no they're terrorist terrorist oh so they don't have a right to defend themselves Iran does not have a right to defend itself they they do but they're not the ones so what is proportionate response they're not the ones what's the proportionate response no can I you asked this question to the people just going to keep talking can I answer it what's the proportionate response the proportionate response to Iran is to stop them trying to destroy Israel through their proxies Hezbollah the hotis and Hamas what they've
been trying to do for many years what is a proportionate response of Iran after the embassy was smashed and destroyed in Syria and 16 people were killed what's the proportionate response well what about the proportionate response to everything Iran's done which is against the Vienna con conventions you don't have one peer-reviewed work on international law and Jimmy Carter the former US president said you have no knowledge of Palestine don't speak to me about Palestine and issues Jim former president of the United States as you a written in your book he says that you have no
knowledge of the Palestine issue Jimmy Carter said that don't speak to me about you want to hear something only thing you have knowled about where the doors and the rooms and the in the back it was the back cover of my book WR you have knowledge I've written 13 books did you touch Virginia on isra did you touch Virginia did you touch her did you touch that woman never heard of her never met her never met her never she don't lie to me don't did you touch that woman or not I'm telling you I never
met her and she acknowledged under oath you have no knowledge of thise do because he won a case it was proven to be lies I'm asking why are you doing this I'm asking him a question this is not about Israel this is trying to be CL you're doing is inviting a lawsuit from Adam which you will get I'm ready for it you are yeah really I've got four defamations cases all of which your friend Douglas Murray I'm taking him to call well good luck with taking on Anan on this is all I say I'm ready
for him oh you you love him don't you no he's just one Cas I just wonder what heing himself I just wonder what leverage he has does he have any leverage on you God this is pathetic man why you keep why' you keep the defending now ACC a monster this man is a monster why debate then because I don't mind debating monsters just like you don't mind debating monsters we both we have that in common do you want to finish the debate about the bigger picture or not I'm speaking about it you guys are the
ones rattled I'm not rattled rattled we you think it's pathetic you're both rattled we think it's pathetic you don't understand what you're talking about really that's just an assertion really isn't it no you're just trying to get your clicks on X and that's fine there there there anything wrong with that you know what try and debate the issue you you always brag about it myself debate you brag about it myself you we've got a million views two million views you talk about it all the time mham do you think Hezbollah are terrorists or Freedom Fighters
I have an antithetical view to hasah and that's been well documented in the record however what's your view I don't know well I I tell you one thing I'm not going to be B into a sectarian debate comment about sure I don't I have an antithetical view tobah however on this case what I mean by that is that I don't necessarily support them in any way shape or form right how because of how do you categorize them I categorize heah in their response to Israel as justified in that response and in the response for Assad
in Syria fellow AB yeah well you and I both know that that I have an antithetical view I don't think that they were on the right side of History then I do think they were acting in there so they were terrorists then well I mean depends on how I think the word terrorism is a social construct what were they what were they when they fought for Assad oppressive oppressive and that's on the record there's no doubt about it you can call whatever you want but they were all the things that you would say Israel is
when when they were doing the thing with B Bashar Assad that is of course my view but they're only that thing when they're doing that when they're attacking Israel that's fine when they attacked Israel when they're attacking Arabs on behalf of Bashar Al Assad that shows consistency hang on doesn't that show consistency no why not it doesn't show consistency it shows consistency the inconsistency is that you think that that was bad when they're attacking is that's fine let's respond on the 8th of October you mentioned many times before in your interviews that they attacked Israel
they attacked Israel right that's not true they attacked the Sheba Farms which is occupied territory which Israel has has claimed his own since 1967 wait is occupied territory which Israel has claimed as its own this shows your lack of knowledge on the matter it does part of what I just said is not true they claimed it as their own is 67 hold on this is occupied territory according to the UN according to the US occupied I just said Israel have claimed it as so what they can claim I can claim what I want Isis have
made many claims given given Israel whatever Israel claims is true is that what we are meant to believe here heah has fired beyond the Sheba Farms let CI hold on hold onz DZ I haven't finished dtz dtz I haven't finished yet on the eth of you talked about eth of October when they fired on the 8th of October they fired and I you can go ahead and bring evidence that they fired anywhere other than the shba Farms that they fired on the shba farms after that there was response from Israel and then after that because
there was response of Israel into lebnan then Hezbollah attacked the northern part of Israel this is what happened and that is Justified according to international law so on this issue you will not find differences between sunnis and Shia you'll not find differences in us we are all United in the hatred of the Zionist entity mam you you've said so far unless I'm wrong you don't support Hamas you don't support Hezbollah so there's probably more bits of agreement here with Alan dtz me than you might like to admit if you don't support those two groups mhm
okay so I don't see what that's got to do with anything we were talkinging we were talking about I said at the start I wanted to find points of agreement can we all agree that Hamas and Hezbollah are a bad thing I can agree that the white man the Western man has tried to use social constructs like terrorism to try and absolve themselves from all the things that they what would you call them Hamas and hezb well I mean just like any human being they can sometimes be oppressive and some some they can times be
on the right side of History most human beings do not do what Hamas did in October the 7th well in in designist entity they do and they do worse than that they don't they don't Israel has never committed an atrocity on that scale on what scale on that scale explain what scale killing 1,200 people they killed 40,000 sorry in one day Mass 4,000 Israelis can get their hands on kidnapping 2 sep Holocaust ring and abusing women beheading people oh you don't think that happened here hold on you just said raping and abusing we started to
show with an admission that there's a problem in Israeli society that there was I'm talking about Hamas yeah but you just said Israel doesn't we both condemned what you talked about earlier in relation so why are you saying Israel don't do that what's wrong with you I didn't say that you just said that now no I didn't you said Israel doesn't do and then you just listed three or four things and that was one of the things that you just no I said Israel had never am I speaking a foreign tongue sorry listen to what
I'm saying I said Israel never perpetrated atropy on that scale in one day against the people they never have hold on how many Civ how many civilians died in October the 7th C uh civilians about 800 oh sure all right hang on but nearly 7,000 more were wounded sure 7,000 what happened on the 23rd of September were wounded what happened on the 23rd of SE 7,000 okay sure think about that number okay no problem the scale of people were attacked on that day are we talking over each other it's two on one now 8,000 people
were attacked no problem on the 23rd one of the most horrendous Terror attacks is this going to be a monolog or is it a dialog I'm telling you some facts I know the fact you may not like it but I'm telling you them okay I'm telling you on the 23rd of September Israel attacked Lebanon how many people died how many civilians died according to the Lebanese the Ministry of Health I believe it's about 2,000 was the last recorded number I saw in one day on the 23rd of including combatants including many combatants 23 how many
how many died why don't we have a commemorating the 23rd of a year commemorating the 23rd of September since we're having a year commemorating the 7th of October and about 600 people died 650 people civilians died on that day that's quite close isn't it we don't know civilians they don't dis between people we are we're not talking about attack we're talking about dead what's wrong with you why are you not looking at me again you're crying are you crying because the viewers are seeing the three of us together I see there's Tears In Your Eyes
there no tears in my eyes what's going on there's a slight sense of exasperation sure there should be because you are employing the you think I am I think you you said it yourself with your interview with M Hassan I think you're just biased you talked about tribes biased against you're biased against anything anti- Weston clearly you said ridiculous statement because you said it yourself you said the reason why you have such and such a view with Russia and I was biased when I led the media campaign against the Iraq war no I think you
was I biased against brown people you were good then was I oh I was good then because you agreed with me sure because you on the side of Truth just like I could say hasah was not on the side of Truth in 2013 but they on the side of Truth today I can say this and even though they're Muslims just like me just like I can say that Hamas is wrong for doing such and such a thing but they're right on such and such a thing I can say all these things you should be able
to do the same thing what have aass been right about resisting because they're they occupied territory does Palestine have a right to defend itself does Hamas have a right to defend itself exclusively against military everybody has the right to defend themselves so Hamas can do that against military targets what they did not tell themselves is not self-defense it was a terror attack had the right to we both agreed that the civilian death is something which we both condemn yeah we're talking about areas of agreement you just said it yourself I'm saying now do you agree
that Hamas has the right because they're an occupied territory Gaza is an occupied territory according to the UK by the way they an occupied terrorism because it's effective military control according to the UK and they ended their occupation in 2005 no no hold on you're meant to be intelligent you're meant to know this fact according to the UK government according to the US government and you can check it up online and according to the UN all three organizations Gaza is an occupied territory Alan let me ask you this one of the many problems I have
with what Israel's been doing in terms of a SC of what has been doing but also what has been going on on the West Bank with the increased settlements very aggressive expansion settlements I think is completely outrageous I agree but once said opposed to Israel's policies on the West Bank I think Israel should continue a military occupation of the West Bank just like I thought it should have continued a military occupation of Gaza but I'm opposed and have been opposed to civilian settlements since 1967 and I'd like to see them ended in a process that
leads to a two-state solution by the way I'm curious whether my fellow guest here supports the right of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people alongside a Palestinian state do you agree that Israel has the right to exist as the Nations say to the Jewish people yes or no I think it's a viable option in 2002 in 2002 not just uh Hamas agreed to this by the way in What's called the Arab initiative the Arab they hold on let me you've just asked me a question you've asked me a question you can check
me you can check you can fact check me in 2002 there was something called the Arab convention and in fact Iran itself was part of it even though it's not an Arab country but it was part of the 2002 Arab convention and they both said so long as Israel does not occupy Gaza it does not occupy the Golden Heights and it does not occupy the West Bank which he's just advocated for then there can be a two-state solution even Hamas heah mentioned the same thing I am a strong supporter of a two-state solution in which
Israel can live in peace that's all Israel has ever wanted since 1948 when it was attacked in a genocidal War 1967 1973 all Israel wants to do is live in peace and if Israel can live in peace with a Palestinian neighbor that's peaceful that would be my what is wrong with that what is wrong with that as an ambition well he said all Israel wants to do is live in peace and I think what Israel wants to do is PE have pieces of other people's land and as he's just agreed a second ago and you
didn't even challenge him on it which I find quite incredulous actually is that he said I think that the West Bank should have military should be military occupying the Israel should be military occupying W he says he says that absolutely occupation of course as long as there's bellig there should be an occup why why are you interrupting me I've let you speak for a very long time i' I let you speak for a very long time now you're interrupting me I didn't give you permission to interrupt me I didn't give you permission to interrupt me
in this manner what I'm saying to you is according to international law there cannot be occupation of One Sovereign Nation over another doesn't seem like you care about international law what do you mean yeah wrong no you're just wrong just be States occupy Japan United States occupied Germany Great Britain occupied Germany you can have a military occupation as long as there is biger your former friend abste and be quiet for a second pretend I'm Epstein your former friend and be quiet and listen to what I have to say yeah whether you the United States of
America did it or not is not an indication of the inter the leg legality of something occupation occupation is by military occupation is legal while belligerency continues That's the Law are you going to be Qui are you going to be quiet I've let you speak for about 3 or 4 minutes uninterrupted he asked you two questions and I've stayed quiet why are you okay I'm saying that military occupation of One Sovereign Nation over another is not something that international law accepts because it contravenes false false you're false so give me the evidence to the contrary
give me the I'm waiting for you it's it's clear that every country has occupied the losing country until belligerency is over once belligerency is over as it was in Germany and Japan two or three years after the war the occupation ended so Happ if military occupation is permissible as long as there civilian occupation if what you're saying is if what you're saying is true why have the organs of the United Nations condemned the occupation of the Israel why the IC condemned they have condemned the civilian aspects of the occupation they have condemned the building of
I also conding milit you're lying just like you had to when you defended the stop it goodness sake it's pathetic why why is it pathetic attacking lawyers for defending people is so pathetic being proud of it yeah of all the attacks it is the least effective and the most embarrassing you're defending him too much today I think EP was disgusting human being so he's proud of defending him do you condemn him for that I just don't care I'm talking about is you don't care now but why is it disgusting the Middle East okay so let's
go back to the point he was just advocating occupying the West Bank Israel occupying the West Bank we got to the point where he was saying that's acceptable I'm saying that if that's acceptable from an international law perspective then you would expect the ICC and the icj and these organs of the United Nations to agree with him on that assessment they have not agreed with him on that assessment even the United Kingdom doesn't agree with him on that assessment the the national position on the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank is that it's illegal
it's effective military control so you don't know what you are talking about and you and you were talking about the pagro attack and you said about it that was an act of military Brilliance I'm sure if it happened here in sabur and a little white boy was killed you wouldn't say that would you
