H ELON SO WE CAN CONTINUE TO STREAMLINE OUR WORK. JOINING ME NOW IS WYOMING SENATOR CYNTHIA LUMMIS. IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU, MARIA. MARIA: OF COURSE, YOU WERE IN THAT MEETING YESTERDAY.
WHAT CAN YOU TELL US. >> DOGE IS FINDING THINGS THAT ANY BUSINESS SHOULD HAVE UNDER CONTROL BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT. LET ME GIVE YOU A COUPLE EXAMPLES.
THEY FOUND AN AGENCY THAT HAD TWICE AS MANY CREDIT CARDS OUTSTANDING AS THERE WERE EMPLOYEES AT THE AGENCY. THEY HAVE FOUND FIELDS ON COMPUTERS THAT SAY WHERE IS THIS PAYMENT BEING MADE TO AND TO WHOM IS IT BEING MADE FOR WHAT. AND THOSE FIELDS ARE EMPTY.
THEY'VE NEVER BEEN FILLED OUT. MONEY'S OUTGOING. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING.
AND IT IS NOT -- IT'S THE WORST OF BUSINESS PRACTICES AND IT'S HAPPENING WITH BILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS. MARIA: YEAH. I WAS READING THAT, THAT THERE WERE LIKE MORE THAN 4 MILLION CREDIT CARDS OR SOMETHING AND THEY WERE, WHAT, TWO AND-A-HALF OR 3 MILLION PEOPLE WORKING IN GOVERNMENT.
HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? PEOPLE HAD DUAL CREDIT CARDS AND THEY WERE USING THOSE CREDIT CARDS FOR WHAT, TRANSPORTATION AND TRIPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT? >> THAT'S JUST IT, MARIA.
WE DON'T KNOW. WHEN I WAS STATE TREASURER IN WYOMING, THE AUDITORS WERE COME INTO MY OFFICE AT THE END OF EVERY FISCAL YEAR, EVERY FISCAL YEAR, AND THEY WERE THERE FOR THREE MONTHS BECAUSE I MANAGED ALL OF THE MONEY IN THE STATE OF WYOMING. WE DON'T DO THAT IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
AND THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR THE IRRESPONSIBLE HANDLING OF U. S. TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
THAT'S WHAT ELON MUSK IS LOOKING AT. HE IS FINDING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE AND IT'S EXTENSIVE. MARIA: UNBELIEVABLE.
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? I WAS STRUCK BY THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE SOCIAL SECURITY ROLLS, SENATOR, AND WHEN YOU'VE GOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ON THESE SOCIAL SECURITY ROLLS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RECEIVING BENEFITS AND CHECKS FROM THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION WHO CLAIM THEY'RE 100 YEARS OLD, 150 YEARS OLD, 360 YEARS OLD, LAST I CHECKED THE OLDEST PERSON IN AMERICA IS 114. GOD BLESS HER.
BUT YOU KNOW, ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE 150 -- NOW, WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE GETTING THE CHECKS, RIGHT? >> THAT'S CORRECT. THE POINT IS, THERE IS WASTE EVERYWHERE IN GOVERNMENT.
IT'S IN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS AND IT'S IN DEFENSE PROGRAMS, IT'S IN NONDEFENSE DISCRETIONARY SPENDING AND ELON MUSK ON HIS TEAM ARE GOING IN AND FINDING THOSE ANOMINALLIES AND THEN INVESTIGATING THEM. THEY'RE NOT CORRECTING THIS. THEY'RE DOING IT THROUGH THE NORMAL CHANNELS OF GOVERNMENT, THROUGH THE CABINET SECRETARIES.
THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING IN THAT ARE WITH DOGE ARE FEDERALLY VETTED PEOPLE, SO THE ALLEGATIONS THAT THIS IS RUN AMUCK, IT'S ARBITRARY, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, IT'S ALL ABSOLUTELY FALSE. MARIA: OKAY. GOOD.
I'M GLAD YOU ADDRESSED THAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY TO THE CRITICS, THE JUDGES WHO ARE SAYING THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO FIRE PEOPLE BUT YOU ADDRESSED IT. LET'S GET TO CRYPTO, SENATOR. YOU'RE IN NEW YORK CITY TODAY FOR THE BITCOIN INVESTORS CONFERENCE, YOU'LL BE ON SEVERAL PANELS LATER TODAY.
I UNDERSTAND LAST NIGHT YOU BOUGHT DRINKS AT A BITCOIN THEMED PUB KEY BAR. YOU'RE PAID IN CASH. WHY?
HOW ABOUT BITCOIN? >> WELL, BECAUSE I SPEND DOLLARS AND SAVE BITCOIN. BITCOIN IS AN ASSET THAT'S GROWING IN VALUE AND I KNOW IT'S VOLATILE.
IT'S SHORT-TERM VOLATILITY -- ITS SHORT-TERM VOLATILITY HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE IT HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE BUT IN THE LONG TERM IT'S GROWING IN VALUE WHERE THE U. S. DOLLAR IS BY DESIGN DEBASING.
EVERY YEAR THE FED HAS IT DESIGNED SO IT INFLATES 2% OR MORE. THEY TRY TO KEEP IT AROUND 2% BUT THEY CAN'T. AND SO THE U.
S. DOLLAR'S ALWAYS DECLINING BY DESIGN. AND SO THE SCARCITY OF BITCOIN, THE FACT THAT 21 MILLION WILL ONLY EXIST IN ALL OF TIME GIVES IT THAT CERTAINTY, THAT STABILITY, THAT SCARCEITY IN THE LONG RUN AND THERE WILL BE SHORT-TERM VOLATILITY BUT OVER TIME AS IT BECOMES MORE UBIQUITOUS IT WILL BECOME MORE STABLE AND MORE VALUABLE.
MARIA: I LIKE THAT. I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID. I'M SPENDING DOLLARS BUT I'M SAVING BITCOIN BUT SENATOR, LOOK, BITCOIN HAS -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WORST PER PERFORMANCE RECENTLY SINCE THE FTX COLLAPSE.
I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE FRAMEWORK FOR REGULATION BECAUSE YOU ARE A GREAT STUDENT AND LEADER OF THIS, HAVE BEEN FOR A LONG TIME NOW. YOU'RE THE DIGITAL ASSET SUBCOMMITTEE CHAIR. YOU'RE LEADING THE CHARGE ON DIGITAL ASSET LEGISLATION AND PROPOSING THE FIRST BITCOIN STRATEGIC RESERVE.
TELL US ABOUT THAT AND WHAT THE PROPER REGULATORY FRAMEWORK NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE FOR BITCOIN. PEOPLE JUST WANT CLARITY. YOU KNOW THAT, SENATOR.
>> YES. WELL, BITCOIN IS A COMMODITY SO IT WILL BE REGULATED BY THE COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION. SOME OTHER CRYPTOCURRENCIES LOOK MORE LIKE A SECURITY AND SHOULD FALL UNDER THE DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS AT THE S.
E. C. SO PART OF WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS GUIDE WHAT IS A COMMODITY AND WHAT IS A SECURITY AND PROVIDE THAT KIND OF CLARITY IN THE LAW SO WE CAN LET AGENCIES KNOW WHO HAS JURISDICTION OVER WHAT SO WE'RE WORKING FIRST ON STABLE COINS, THEN WE'LL MOVE TO MARKET STRUCTURE AND THEN HOPEFULLY TO A BITCOIN STRATEGIC RESERVE.
MARIA: SO TELL ME ABOUT THAT. I LIKE THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE SEPARATING THE COMMODITY AND FOR WHAT IT IS AND THE OVERSIGHT THERE AT THE CFTC BUT YOU'RE ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION NEEDS TO HAVE A ROLE HERE TOO BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S BEEN WHERE THE CONFUSION HAS BEEN. TOO MANY REGULATORS, TOO MANY HANDS IN THE POT.
>> THAT IS AN ISSUE. THERE IS A COURT TEST THAT HAS EXISTED FOR DECADES CALLED THE HOWIE TEST THAT HELPS NON-CRYPTO ASSETS SORT BETWEEN WHAT IS A SECURITY AND WHAT IS A COMMODITY. SO SENATOR GILIBRAND AND I ARE RECOMMENDING THAT.
MARIA: IF I WANTED DIGITAL ASSETS ON A VERY BASIC NAIVE LEVEL I COULD SAY I ALREADY HAVE THAT. I USE MY CREDIT CARD. I USE PAY PAL OR APPLE PAY.
SO WALK US THROUGH THE REASONS THAT SOMEONE WOULD WANT TO USE CRYPTO IN THAT REGARD, GIVEN THE OTHER OPTIONS OUT THERE. >> WELL, BITCOIN HAS A COUPLE OF QUALITIES THAT YOU CAN'T GET FROM EITHER FIAT CURRENCY, MEANING U. S.
DOLLARS OR GOVERNMENT ISSUED CURRENCY. IT IS BOTH A STORE OF VALUE AND A MEANS OF EXCHANGE. IT IS SCARCE SO IT WILL -- IT'S DIGITAL GOLD BUT IT'S MUCH EASIER TO USE THAN GOLD.
IT'S EASIER TO TRANSPORT. YOU CAN HAVE IT ON YOUR PHONE. YOU CAN MAKE PAYMENTS FASTER AND CHEAPER THAN A CREDIT CARD.
IT'S INSTANTANEOUS. MARIA: THAT IS GREAT. I LOVE THAT.
ALL RIGHT. REAL QUICK ON THE TRUMP AGENDA, SENATOR. OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT THE HOUSE PASSED ITS BUDGET RESOLUTION.
ARE YOU ALL NOW ON THE ONE TRACK AS OPPOSED TO TWO TRACK PLANS TO EXECUTE THE PRESIDENT'S AGENDA? SOME LAWMAKERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT CUTS TO MEDICAID. OTHERS SAY THE BILL DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH ON REDUCTIONS IN SPENDING.
THERE'S ALSO A DEBATE ON WHETHER OR NOT THE BILL CAN COVER MAKING THE 2017 TRUMP TAX CUTS PERMANENT. HOW DO YOU VIEW ALL OF THIS? TELL US WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT NOW.
>> I THINK THAT THE SENATE IS REALLY FOCUSED ON MAKING THE 2017 TAX CUTS PERMANENT. AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE HOUSE BILL DOES NOT YET DO. SO THERE NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN HOUSE AND SENATE LEADERS AND THE WHITE HOUSE TO MAKE SURE WE CAN MAKE THOSE CUTS PERMANENT AND THAT THEN WE CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES RELATED TO OTHER ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS.
MARIA: SO YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU STILL NEED A TWO TRACK PROCESS HERE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MAKE THE TAX CUTS PERMANENT. >> YOU GOT IT. I DO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT AND SUPPORT THAT ARGUMENT.
MARIA: UNDERSTOOD.
