How We Met NPH [with Neil Patrick Harris] | S2E20 "Showdown"

Uh, hey everybody. It's Craig Thomas. Uh, I wrote a book and I want you to know about it. But instead of watching me or listening to me be self-promotional in a blatant and uncomfortable way, I was delighted by this book. [music] It is super page turny. It is like breathlessly and and hilariously plotted. The interiority was just as rich and as fun as the the plot twists. his many years of crafting great Narratives on television came to bear on this. Your gifts as a novelist are are just abundant. I was so delighted by it. It's

incredibly vivid. You're you're really seeing it as you read it. Even if you were my mortal enemy, I would be forced to I love you dearly. You're one of my best friends. But I would be forced to concede that you had written a great book. [laughter] >> W That is amazing. I wish that could be a blurb on the book. Even Frank Thomas Was my mortal enemy. you you will not be uh disappointed if you if you pick up this book or listen to this book. So uh [music] check it out. >> And speaking of

listening to this book, there is a mini How I Met Your Mother reunion in the audio book of That's Not How It Happened. Listen to Kobe Smolders. >> And so began the surreal unholy process of my husband adapting my book, My Life, [music] into a screenplay. >> Here is another voice you may recognize, Josh Rder. >> Right now, I was in that pocket. And as a writer, that's about as close to heaven [music] as it gets. >> Okay, self-promotion over. Now to this week's episode. It's a big one, ladies and gentlemen. How [music] we Met

Neil Patrick Harris. >> I'm alone. What [music] a pity I won't be soon in New York [singing] City. When I see you, please permit me to tell you everything [music] in New [singing] York City. Hello and welcome to another episode of How We Made Your Mother. I'm Josh Rner, your co-host. My other co-host, I'm staring at his handsome face now. His name's Craig Thomas. Hi, Craig. >> Why? I'm blushing, sir. Thank you. [laughter] >> Do I not call you handsome enough? I feel like it's imply I I'm always Feeling it. Um, we uh made a

TV show together years ago. Uh, it started what, 20, 19 years ago. It was called How I Met Your Mother. We did 28 episodes. It ran from 2005 to 2014. We haven't seen it in years. We're going back through every single episode uh with our older, wiser eyes. Uh, we're very proud of what we made for the most part. And, uh, yeah, we're having a great time. And, uh, you know, we always say special episode. This is a special episode. This Is just such a special extra extra extra special episode because we have a man

here who it's just impossible to imagine the world of How I Met Your Mother Without. He is the person who breathed life into the great iconic Barney Stinson and his name is Neil Patrick Harris and he's with us today. >> What? >> What? Hey, please sit down. Please, everyone sit. [laughter] >> What's up, man? Thank you for being Here. >> So good to see you. >> It's nice to see your smiling faces, Craig. Alec as well. >> Thank you for being here, buddy. >> What What What have you been doing since 2014? How have you

been? [laughter] >> Just I've been good. Hooking. >> I saw you. I saw your You won a Tony. I saw that. I remember you jumped on my seat in the audience and you kissed me, I believe, on the mouth >> for sure. >> I think I got glitter in my on my face. Well, we had already We'll talk about that. We had already broken that. Um, and uh, so you're living in New York City and uh, I let me let me just start with this. We talk about how the tale of this show like there

were there were shows that were so popular when we were on uh, the air that people just do not talk about anymore, but for some reason how I met mother is still very much in The zeitgeist. It's still in the culture. People still reference it, talk about it, discover it a new. So, I'm just curious like in your kind of day-to-day life, you probably you get recognized for a lot of things, but like what's your experience of meeting How I Met Your Mother fans, and how has the show kind of changed in your perception of

it as as you've gotten more time away from it? >> Wow, what an interesting question. Uh, It's been constant. I mean, really truly constant because when we did our final season, the show was was on more times per day than ever. So, it was on three or four times a day in America. >> Uh, and then when Netflix picked it up, it had another resurgence and then it went somewhere else. Then Netflix picked it up again. It had another resurgence. Now, you know, I have my husband and I Have twin 14year-old children and they their

friends are watching it now. Their >> Are they watching it? Harper and Gideon watched it. >> Yeah, for sure. So, >> oh my god. So that's interesting because now that's a whole other level of like celebrity dynamic but in a strange direction because you know I want Harper and Gideon to be identified independently and they have their own, you know, uh triggers and Issues with potentially only being recognized as this the the child of Barney Stinson. [laughter] >> It's a complicated legacy. >> Yeah, for sure. Good and bad. and it's something that they'll have to

process. >> But I've had some really great um like [clears throat] marker chapters professionally in my life since then that have been super great and recognizable and fulfilling as well. But boy, yeah, people keep coming back to Barney and I'm so appreciative of it and I'm so grateful for the show because especially having played Barney. He was he was intended to be kind of the fifth wheel life of the party guy that you want to buy a drink and buy the next round and go on some crazy ass adventure, right? That was how he was

going constructed, it seems. And so when I meet people who love the show, they're very they're very positive and they're very enthusiastic and they have Specifics and they tell me about the playbook and how many that they've tried and that they met their girl doing the naked man and that they've been to the Liberty Bell. Like there, you know, it's and a lot of people say that they have watched the show >> eight times. >> Yeah. All the way through. Do you ever have the experience that they're bringing up something that you're like I don't

remember that like they something So specific like they just watched it last night >> and you're like I barely remember what you're talking about [laughter] >> for sure as and and especially when someone comes up and they were on the show in an episode and [laughter] it had like four or five lines, you know, and and uh >> you had a really awkward thing with Joe Manganelo. You're like, I don't know this guy. >> I've [laughter] never seen you before in my life, but wow, look at your eyes. He takes his shirt off and you're

like, "Oh, I remember this guy." >> Oh, yeah. That guy. [laughter] >> So, no, it's just been it's just been a delight. It it it weirdly I'm 52 years old, you know, and and people still consider me well, treat me as if I'm like vibrant. Let's go have a great time and do fun things together. Yeah. >> And that's fun. Like it's it's >> it's fun to not be like the dusty older sage, but instead to still be like the one that can be devilish. It's It was It was a devilish part. And I I

I'm so grateful, Craig, to you and Carter. >> Oh my god. >> Mostly to you, just cuz Carter's not here right now. [laughter] >> The feeling is very mutual. Neil, I don't want to I'm struggling with how much or little to embarrass you during this, but like each every single episode We've done, and we're at the end of season 2 almost now. Every week we're saying like, "How the [ __ ] did Neil do that physical comedy thing?" or "How did you find that moment? How how does he do that turn on a dime the

way he does?" There's we're we're we're fanning out on you a bunch re-watching our own show that we all made together. So, I just wanted to say that. >> Thank you, man. It was it was one of those rare gifts that I'm sure you have Talked about at Nauseium where it was such a hybrid show at a time when that really didn't exist. And so we were doing a multi- camera show with no audience, as if there was an audience. And we were able to cut and reset and restart. And we were helmed by Pam

Fryman, who was such like a heartbeat, truthful center for everyone in their own ways, always. >> And that North Star, I think, allowed everyone the freedom to try [ __ ] and Fail. [snorts] And the stuff that I I mean I just felt like it was this back and forth between team writer room and team actor is they would sort of challenge us with like what let's see if they if if this would be successful and when it came to the Barney stuff because [snorts] you know Josh was so exquisite at the the paos part

and at the at making a laugh tracked 22 minutes feel so sort cinematic and real that then I was sort of gifted all Of like the craziness >> and I was [clears throat] so fun to do because if it was a real sitcom with a multi- camera live studio audience, it's a very different experience. You rehearse all week and then it's show night and you really only have a couple cracks at it. You do it and then you huddle up and the audience laughed at it but they didn't laugh like you thought. So you rewrite

a bunch of stuff and then the guy is upstairs telling them, "I'll Give you chocolates if you laugh louder." And so then the second time you do it, it's like really big responses for everything and they're wanting to hear themselves when they go home later. And so that's just a different vibe. We were able to do things, you know, five or six times >> and just trust what we felt. Trusted did we think it was good? Did our crew think it was good? Did Pam think it was right? It was we were the orbiters and

>> trying to make the crew laugh was was paramount. My favorite person to try and make laugh was Sue, our editor, >> because I know that she was the one pouring over all the stuff. So, I was I was >> I was constantly when we were filming trying to do little weird things that only she would acknowledge. >> She had a whole relationship with you in the winking at me. >> Yeah. [laughter] I do a weird thing. >> Not for any other reason than I just could only imagine it's boring to be seeing like which

take do I do of these same similar five takes or something. So I was just running for her. >> That was like the playful spirit that you brought to it. You kind of didn't go out of character in between takes and Sue would watch like not even takes just go like what the [ __ ] Neil doing over here? I think he's doing this just for Me. Uh, but I think some of that energy makes it like that is the energy. That was the energy of the weird little like mad scientist laboratory of making this

show together. It's really cool. >> When you guys would write something like Barney sneezes the biggest sneeze that he's ever sneezed in his life, that's all you'd say. >> I was like, "Oh, I love this game." >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Challenge accepted. I mean, literal Challenge accepted. Yeah. >> Yeah. Neil, I remember we uh when we watched episode 3, Sweet Taste of Liberty, which was written by Miller and Lord, and and Craig said that they said to him, remind me, Craig, they said, "This is where Barney is like an animated character." >> They said, "We're

going to make Barney a cartoon character in this one." [laughter] And you know what? That wouldn't be every episode, but to do it In that one, the third episode of the entire series, to say, "This is a Barney cartoon adventure. Trust us, we're Chris and Phil. We will make this fantastic." And that was so good. So early they called that shot. They really broke. >> I remember there was a moment where I was standing on the street and you pull up I think in a limo or a t No. You pull up in a taxi

and you were just like get in, you know, like trying to you're demanding that I get in and there was a Look in your eye that was like new that I was like oh Neil's dropped in like to another level of this character. [laughter] >> Yeah. Like I just remember like you you knew you were you were about to take Ted but you were about to take the episode >> and like make it insane and I just that was the one uh we are international businessmen on a business trip. Remember that moment when we get

Yeah. Um, which which kind of like there's certain Episodes we've noticed are like are like Hope and Crosby road movies like old timey, you know, Walter Matau, Jack Lemon kind of like just oldtimey buddy comedy movies. But I just want to also shout out that even if you conceived of yourself as like fifth fifth guy party guy, you know, one thing that I I really love that because we got so long to do it that Craig and Carter did, they gave me some like insane animated [ __ ] to do, but they also gave you

some like real Heartforward stuff that was just as moving as any other other characters, you know, as you get deeper in like with your father issues with uh we just we just looked at the episode. Oh, no. Is this Oh, yeah. Showdown. >> In theory, we're talking about Showdown. At some point, we'll name check it in this conversation. >> The end of Showdown when you reveal how you actually how Barney actually lost His virginity, but then he prefers the fantasy of like that it was Dirty Dancing or whatever. >> That's right. Right. Right. That Yeah.

>> There's something so sad and moving but extra hilarious about like the tragedy at the heart of this man. And we talk a lot about, you know, Shannon and the Peace Corps and how Barney became Barney, but underneath it, he's just like a scared kid who didn't have a male role model in his life who's just like Trying to piece together this like way to be a man in a way that's just kind of like [music] insane, but but he also like he ultimately has a good heart. And that's what we keep seeing on this

rewatch. And I wrote you this little diddy to sing [music] to you in New York City. We'll be right back. [music] And now back to the show. I've always felt that he was kind of broken >> and and a lot of the show was as the seasons went on was like revealing elements of his the you know he never talked about his job. He never spoke and as we're running gags >> of like please >> and so you never really knew much about him and that seemed like a good >> a good place to hide

sincerity and poss >> and I keep in mind up until How I Met Your Mother, I hadn't done what I mean I did a wacky sitcom with Tony Shaloo on NBC a few years before How I Met Your Mother and it was one season and I was like the David Hyde Piery kind of um afraid of germs and an uptight guy and so that was fun but sort of very singular but I had never really done a lot of the big comedy stuff so I had mostly done like Doogie Hower was super sincere done a

lot of television movies that had been like I was grounded in sincerity >> I felt like you you had to do before Barney you did a lot of what I had to do on How I Met Your Mother which is kind of be the virtuous center >> of a show and I felt there was something about like you recognize the opportunity to be unleashed [laughter] like to be like oh my god I there there was something about Barney both the fact that he wore a lot of armor like you're describing like he had a lot

of armor up the suit was like an armor for him >> but he also the way he was constructed And the way you played him and I you know I think we we developed these characters with the writers it was a real like you know uh team effort but the way you gave him permission to be as insane as a human could possibly be and still actually be recognizable as a human. I'm just very impressed with it on this rewatch. I I I appreciated it on set, but like the more I watch it and especially

this is something we talked about a lot. >> Your physical comedy on the show is just >> unbelievable to watch. Like I remember uh remember the marathon episode where he's like I can just you don't train for a marathon, you just run it, right? And then his legs give out on the subway. The shot that they showed was above the window cuz it's like really funny. You try to get up, but I was watching I was on set in the scene and I'm watching through the door. So, I actually saw your legs not work in

a way that I was Like, "How did he do that?" Like, I didn't even understand literally physically. >> You so believed you were about to stand up. [laughter] >> Yes. The top half of your body was doing one thing and the bottom was doing something completely different. Uh, it got us sick and you'll Yeah, Josh, I think we're both want to ask this question, right? >> We we we so love your physical comedy. We were just wondering like did you grow up idolizing any like physical comedians? Like were you a Buster Katon guy? Were you

>> asked you this and I've always >> We're really curious. >> A massive physical comedy fan. Buster Katon was a huge inspiration. Harold Lloyd, Charlie Chaplan. >> But then it really pivoted when I went >> uh and saw the the second ever uh version of Cirus Sole's traveling Show in Santa Monica. >> It was and at the Santa Monica Pier and it was called uh Noville Experience, the new experience. And it was the first time I had no well it was the second time I'd seen Circ because I'd seen their first show randomly there at

that same spot. And I had never seen a circus with no animals. And it was surrounded uh by this central figure who was a clown. And the clown was a a performer named David Shiner. And David Shiner's a very well-known clown. And one of his main things that he that he did was he was played this director and he wouldn't talk as the clown. He would he would his his clown spirit was very dismissive and annoyed at things. So there was a lot of like annoyance with things [laughter] and so and he would whistle a

lot. So he'd whistle and he would say I'm going to do like he would mime that I'm going to make a movie and I need three people in The audience and he had a big door frame. It was his big center prop and he would say I and he would mime I need a sw a study guy that's going to come up and he would pick someone in the audience. Then he would pick a woman from the audience and then he would have them do a scene together. They'd walk up and they'd kiss. And then

there was a third guy who was like the nerdy guy. And his David Shiner's physical comedy was so next level. And I had never in my Life been in a like a it was a circus arena so filled with people literally everywhere. And we were all laughing so hard for so long at his physical prowess, at his ability to transform his body from suave to debonire to nerdy to angry. And he he was a master at it. And I was just from that point forward obsessed with David Shiner and Cir Sole and the and and

it was a profound >> Didn't he do stuff with Bill Irwin? Weren't they like uh >> Yes and Bill Irwin? They did. And you can you can track those down probably on what? Broadway World or Broadway. >> There's like a channel that you can watch. >> It was called Fool Things. No, Fool Things. >> Fool Moon. One of my favorite things I've ever seen. >> Oh, Full Moon. Yeah, >> Full Moon. That's right. >> They also did Old Hats later on, which Was also >> Old Hats. >> Fantastic. >> How old were you in the

story, Neil? How old were you when you got the when this hit? You were you a kid in that story? Are you a >> 12 years old? 11, 12 years old. And I just and then I and then I went down a Bill Irwin loop cuz he's he did the very famous um mime clown bit inside the trunk where he would open up a a Wardrobe trunk and he would go down the steps and turn and go down the steps and he would then it would become an elevator and it like we've all seen versions

of it and his is is undeniably like one of the best. >> Were you already into uh magic at this point? >> I was into magic. I was a selftaught juggler and so I you know I just really I really value how one's physicality can um inform Uh >> a scene >> and and and so when you get the o because words are super important >> a paramount and right and then inflection and what you do with those words is super important but how you're standing where you're looking like if You watch a closeup of

amazing performers and when they're talking a single tear like drips out of their eye and their face doesn't move. Like that Is physical performing in its own right. they know which there's actors that are like you want it to hear which I and like [laughter] that is impressive to me right because I think it's part of the skill set >> and I was always with how I met your mother loving >> the sandbox that we were in because we were a situation comedy you know and so I was >> it's so interactive what we see

you Doing as writers you were giving the writers that that sign like give me stuff challenge me. Stump me. Stump the band. I dare throw me something. I dare you to find something I can't do. And we [ __ ] couldn't. >> I didn't think of it in that way. I didn't I didn't think of it in like a um of a competition sort of vibe. >> What's the episode where Neil just has like different ways he's killing himself with mimming? Like he does the uh what's The thing where you cut out your >> Yeah.

Yeah. The >> And then the blood coming out the blood coming out of your neck. But even that one, Neil, where you we show who Barney was before he became Barney, right? The episode where he becomes Barney, like the Darth Vader, Darth that that episode. Uh when we meet you as hippie Barney, who's head over heels in love with Shannon, your body, >> the way you walk, >> the way you walk as Hippie Barney with the long hair. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> The hair is doing the walking. The wig is leading the walk. >> Weren't

we wondering, did you have the flu when you were filming that or something? Like, wasn't something crazy dead sick that week and you [ __ ] crushed it anyway? It was like our biggest Barney episode to date cuz you had so much to do in that episode and You got the flu the second that production week began I think and you were like I guys I'm sorry I'm not going to be that great this week and then you were so [ __ ] good. It was almost annoying. It's like how is he this good when

he's when he said but >> I kind of remember that cuz it was all of the granola. Yeah. you were the hippie guy and you had so much nicaragua when you said narua [laughter] >> but just your physicality changes so much and you like you then it's you we're seeing you bridge between hippie Barney becoming Barney like we see that walk almost like Kaiser so like becoming Barney walking down the street every part of that is a masterclass in physical comedy so it's it's just >> that's so sweet that's so it's so nice to hear

you guys say that not that I was seeking that uh acknowledgement at all but it's like I come by anytime if you Were feeling low and want compliments. >> I wasn't doing it um you know as it it was it felt a little also like Saturday Night Live what we were doing because it was every week new stuff and so I didn't really ever process it like >> how how can I win this or how can I you think you can write something that I can't do then I'll I'll show you. I was just loving

the the softball lobs, right? Yeah. >> And so I and I and I also appreciated For and I think we all did the the notion that >> we were hopeful that this would be watched more than once. >> Yes. >> And for most of its first four seasons, we were very unsure whether that was going to happen. And so and yet we still like with these things I would still Yes. I was doing it for Sue the editors, so that she'd laugh. But I also thought if anyone wants to watch the the repeat Of it,

be fun for them to notice something new and different instead of just like a freight train doing a singular thing. >> Yeah. We we talked a lot in the first season, especially Neil, about how if the show had been a hit right out of the gate and there were so many eyeballs on us, it might have been a less interesting show. it might have developed into a less interesting show because we were kind of like good enough In the demo that we stayed on the air but we weren't being noted to death. We weren't no

one was paying that much attention to us. So so we got to develop this really cool style. So by the time people started watching us we had already really found our voice. The ensemble was like so gelled like we we were in the pocket you know. >> That's very very true. We we talk sometimes, Neil, about how it [clears throat] almost seems like in Certain moments when you're playing Barney, it's like Barney's the only one of these characters who knows he's in a sitcom. I think Josh made that observation. >> Yeah. You give that great

speech about where there's a a drunk woman with daddy issues. We will be there. Remember that? Like we will be there. But you walk in sometime at the beginning of season 2 and you walk in and you turn to the fourth wall >> and I said Neil is looking for he's holding for applause. He thinks he's going to get entrance applause, which if you if we had been in front of an audience, you would have, [laughter] but it led me to this very meta question where I said, "Does Barney was Barney the only character who

was aware he was in a sitcom?" Like, everyone else thinks they're living life. Barney on some level knew he was in a weird reality. >> So, I never really acknowled But from the from the pilot, yeah, >> it was clear that he loved his own catchphrases, needed to have his own catchphrases. And in that in the Philly episode, >> I think that's when he does the >> lactose intolerance long line version of Legend, wait for it, dairy. >> And so he he loved these and and there were lots of times when Barney would slowly like

>> he would be writing normal jokes, but Then you'd write a big paragraph of a thing that he would say. And so it was I think Barney did always feel like like he was in this new this story he was delusional and the delusion was wait no matter what's happening in the world right now this is this is how it's going to be narrated and this is going to and so I think I would stand up and play to this invisible fourth wall which which certainly would seem like it was the the audience >> I

think I agree with what you're saying so much because he's obsessed with uh the idea of audience and how things appear like how his friend like this knight that is legendary and people will talk about this for ages. He's very much like we're the main characters and we're going to create the best and even you know Mep's need tweets the the stuff about his blog like he he was very into like image management and also having it look a certain way. >> He knows it's going to be a story so he's going to be the

star of the story. He's going to make the story happen for the weirdest parts of the story. >> He's talking to the future versions of themselves that are going to that's the fourth wall is like the future. >> And I felt a little bit of I felt a little bit of freedom as well because the structure of the show was Ted telling not the true story but his his his remembrance of the story. And so I Didn't feel ever like I needed to be doing what really happened, but the but I'm doing what Ted was

telling his kids how it happened. So I did feel that I had a um agency to be bigger and to say things as if he was like the life of the party, not in a real world because Ted was explaining it. Right. >> It's right. It's not reality, it's memory. And this is the the the how Barney occupies future Ted's memory. It it gets exaggerated. Yeah, that's that's Really cool to hear. >> We do have a central kind of question about the show. Like is what we're seeing on the TV show, is that the actual

thing or is that Ted's memory of the thing? Cuz it's like it's like a weird thing because some of it is so heightened and strange. >> I think it was Ted's memory, right? Because a lot of the structure was pacing of like, "No, wait, that's not how it happened." Yeah. >> And you go back and say, "Oh, but I guess that then we end up doing the one that Ted would say was the real version of it." >> But no one's photo accurate either. Yeah. >> Yeah. True. >> You know what keeps coming up, Neil?

So, the the episode Showdown, the one we're theoretically going to talk about at least a little in this talk. >> Today, we're talking about Showdown, by The way, uh which aired on April 30th, 2007, written by Gloria Calron Kelllet. >> Uh the the the daddy issues of it all, the who is Barney's dad thing. We keep on coming up against another brilliant aspect of how you play the character, which is your your mix. Some of it was in the writing, but I think you really helped steer the writing this way. The mix between bravado and

vulnerability and needing that vulnerability to earn the bravado, if that makes sense. If you Only have bravado and you don't have the we don't get to like peek under that suit, under that armor and see who he really is, what his scars are, what got him where he is, the I think the whole character doesn't work. And I think you really understood that in a in a beautiful way. Um, this episode Showdown, this is about this is where we get we get this delusional moment of Barney thinks Bob Barker is his dad. Or does he

really think that? And in the End of the episode, there's this wonderful it's clear Barney doesn't really think that. He just needs to extend the denial. Um, how how much were you aware in the moment of like I've got to carve out that vulnerability to earn some of the cartoony craziness because the vulnerability is like the the foundation to to launch into the crazy. >> Yeah, that's a good question. I don't I don't think I processed it in those ways. Mainly because I think I'm a Fairly like um vulnerable human and I think I was

when especially when we were filming this, I was less secure about who I was in my life as just a person. And so I was like I was needy and insecure as a actor. I mean I [clears throat] was I was playing Barney and I and I was a like I'm a fully formed human that with with flaws just like anybody. But I think the my flaws were like wanting approval. And so that I think that innately plays through of the brav bravado. I never really I mean you guys can speak to this a little

more than me cuz >> cuz I was sitting in it but I never really finished scenes and was like >> mic drop nailed it walk away. Like I was always kind of like did you get it? Do you think that's good? >> I am you happy? If you're happy I'm good but you want to do it again? Like I don't know. >> It's so weird. Most most actors [music] are incredibly confident and trusting of everything they do. And this old man, [music] he must admit, fell in love with you in New [music] York City. And

now commercials. [singing] >> End of commercials. Back to show. I think Jason really was because he's also a writer and had and had created other things himself like he seemed very Confident in the choices that he was making all the time and there was kind of a great um a great simple sort of singularity to his choices because and that's what kind of grounded Marshall I think because >> he wasn't that insecure about his choices and he was always super pleased with how it was going [laughter] >> in a great way necessary. Yeah, >> I

think he I think he uh I don't want to Speak for Jason and I hope we can talk to him about this one day, but I think he just like I always I always felt like Jason was a little more like he he was doing a 9 toive job that was a cool job and he would come in and he would do it and he wouldn't stress too much about it and then he'd go home and go on his life and go out to dinner and you know I think like you and I maybe it's

like theater actors like if you if you come from the theater it's a little more like Obsess you get a little more obsessive I think and >> for sure >> I don't know I do have to say that um part of what inspired this. My wife Jordana had never seen How I Met Your Mother and she really wanted to watch it and so I was going to do this rewatch and I reached out to Craig. I was like, "Do you want to do something more formal? Like it could be fun to revisit the show and

so she's been watching it With me." And boy, when you get on the Price is Right with Bob Barker and that that is like an opera. That is like a that is like [laughter] an unbelievable cuz I she was laughing so hard. We were both just dying. But I I don't know. I hadn't seen it in so long, >> but your Do you remember that day where you were on the set of The Prices, Right. That's the talk about kids in a candy store. >> Incredibly vividly. >> Did you grow up watching The Prices, Right.

like you, Neil? >> I grew up loving the Prices, right? Obsessed with the Prices, Right. Obsessed with all things game shows. >> It was the sick day uh the sick day treat to end [laughter] all sick day treats was >> I watched them all. It was daytime daytime game shows. I would I knew all of I know all of it. I I've have box Games that I've created. I have a Netflix show called What's in the Box? Right now that I literally doing it >> for a gay guy, I really seem to like boxes. But

um [laughter] but the Bob Barker, I was obsessed. And before we had gone to tape it, I was able to go, it must have been during the run of How I Met Your Mother because of the CBS connection. I went for a re during a real taping and stood in the back and and watched everything and I Was like a kid an actual kid in the candy store. Couldn't believe that it was happening. Looked at the Plinko. >> But that was before you knew we were doing an episode there, right? Correct. 100% correct. So when

you I remember that day and I I knew how important it was to you. I knew you were obsessed with Prices, right? Carter and I were too. That that's why we wrote the episode. But like uh I remember feeling nervous for you almost. So I was like You had to go and like part of it you were acting in front of the Price is Right audience, right? We had an audience there for a bunch of it. I remember being like Neil has to pull off a lot and we have this little tiny window of time

on this [ __ ] forgive me legendary set of The Price is Right. It's very daunting. It's what we watched when we were homesick when we're 8 years old and here you are having to act with Bob Barker saying things like >> are you saying you're proud of me [laughter] >> and be near tears? >> I remember asking you guys like is Bob going to play along? Like what was his temperament like? Cuz he was a very lovely guy. >> He got it right. >> He I thought he was amazing actually. Like I thought he

played the what was the movie he did? Happy Gilmore. He did Happy Gilmore. He was really funny in That >> and he did physical comedy in that and he had a stunt double I think. And so I think he knew Adam Sandlerish kind of comedy. So I I I felt safe to do sort of that version of it. The stuff I was I was super happy with is that he let me like >> hug him in earnest. like [laughter] he could have said like let's do a easier hug or something but he was he was

so game and down with all of it that and I Watched so much Price is Right >> that I love when I did the rewatch just just now I was I was laughing at myself when I was going like looking at the audience like come on come on guys [laughter] >> cuz you know you you're a savant you Barney is literally a savant down to >> also this is this is another like magical uh how I met [laughter] one thing he gets it down to the dollar. >> He does not miss by one number. >>

He doesn't miss by one [laughter] ounce. Yeah, >> I had actually forgotten the end of the episode. So I when when when I was Barney was contemplating the numbers and said 1818641. Um then I was thinking, oh wow, wait, did this end because he he intentionally went over by $1 or something? I was confused at the actual dollar. So [laughter] I was I was excited for him. Oh my god. >> Yeah. The the saddest moment for me so far of How I Met Your Mother and also the funniest is is the flashback, but when little

Barney says, "Want to play catch?" >> Oh, the baseball throws the [laughter] baseball at the TV. >> That may be the saddest scene ever shot in the history of cinema. >> Bounce. >> Unbelievable. [laughter] >> Uh Neil, I noticed there's a little moment like just the things we're catching. There's a moment where you don't have any dialogue. Bob Barker is talking. and you're standing next to him and I noticed you're trying to stand like him to be more like your dad. >> Yes, that I noticed [laughter] that too. >> It was so [ __ ]

funny. I I edited that episode. I watched that episode a hundred times in the edit room. I don't think I ever noticed you that exact Moment. And that's how in you were. That's how in like finding every You were alive in every little moment in [snorts] that. And it's so insane. It's insane that he thinks Bob Barker is his dad. It's insane that he goes on, but you make it seem plausible. you there's like a there's there's a beating heart behind it. >> I feel like that's a very Barney thing is like he has this

utterly clinically insane idea that everyone around him is Fully agreed this is insane and he's like yeah like this is of course like he's trying to get everyone to sign off on his version of reality like a lot >> and it's it's bonkers. Let's also remember that I don't think it was out of the realm of possibility that you wouldn't write that Bob Barker was his actual father, >> right? >> You hadn't said to us like, "Oh, by the way, >> we have a whole arc for him where he meets his father at that point,

>> right? We didn't know it yet. We didn't have it yet. >> If you were not Barney and then Barney, as we know, Barney comes in and says, "Yeah, Bob Barker from The Price is Right is my dad." You'd be like, "Um, dude, do we need to take you in for a little calm down medicine?" >> For [laughter] sure. But like on this show also like >> Britney was Yeah. Like we were friends with >> Reg Secretary [laughter] Yes. Yes. >> So I So for a while when we were filming it, I was thinking it

it like I don't know, as I'm recollecting it, I don't I think I was believing that he was my father. >> Yeah. because the flashback scene that he was told that's his dad and you see like a the camera zooms in on his face As he recognizes his dad and then there's all these different versions of him growing up talking to his dad. I think he really thought it was his dad and I think that there was a world where Bob Barker could have really been his dad like >> right it's we it could have

gone that way and it almost >> getting side to side I you can buy it. >> I totally would buy it. I totally would buy it. Uh, it's Barney has to get to That moment of almost saying it to Bob and that's the moment he realizes like this probably isn't true. >> I played that end scene for real. >> You did. >> Like now I'm a little embarrassed and I'm getting sweaty as I'm saying it. Oh, no. >> I didn't play that last scene with the vulnerability of Barney knowing that that if he sell if

he tells the truth and that he knows that it's not his dad And he's and he's somehow covering for that by making up a fact that that if he told Bob it would end him. I was playing it as if he really sort of thought if I tell him he's my dad, he it would hurt his life. >> [snorts] >> I I think you played it right. Like I think you actually played it because I think it's more compelling to watch a person who's going to ride this from all the way into the sand. Like

you're not Going to give it up. You're not going to like come to cuz I think one of the great things about Barney is like even though he changed, he never changed. Like there's something about >> I actually the the editor who edited both my movies said the difference between movies and TV show is a movie you have to transform them in two hours. They're different at the end. But with a TV show, you have to maintain some stasis so people watch over and over. So The characters can't have to transform way slower, especially if

you're doing nine years, you know? >> It's why I'm I'm a staunch supporter of the of the ending of the whole show. I get asked that a lot, like what do you think of the ending? And I'm like a big proponent and an active fan of it. This is going to cause a couple news articles, by the way, to be written about this because anytime I mention the finale, it's like people, literally People write about it. >> Literally. [laughter] >> But because of what you say, Josh, is is what I think is and it's what

it's how I explain it. I I I think Barney is and and throughout that entire run of the show is always been that guy. He's not gonna he's not going to change, right? And I think that it was short, it would be shortsighted and like real TV sitcom logic to all of a sudden say, you know, a tease winds up happily married. >> Evolution is slow. Evolution is a slow process. It doesn't happen right away. Hopefully, you see Barney evolve as we flash forward through years ahead past that point. You see evolution starting to happen

for him. But it's true. It does not happen overnight. At the same time, do you know what we keep saying even two seasons of watching this and doing this podcast for these two seasons? Barney is right a lot of the time he has and he's insane a lot of the Time, but we're noticing there's a lot of moments where Barney like there's this episode a little earlier in season 2 where Ted is going to move in with Robin and Barney sits Ted down at the bar and says, "No, you're not. This isn't real. Every time

you talk about it, you don't call it your apartment. You call it Robin's apartment." And like there's just like these very emotionally like these little moments of clarity and it's almost always in the context of Barney being a [ __ ] great friend because he really does love Ted. He really does love Marshall and Lily. >> What I totally had forgotten, Barney flies to San Francisco to talk sense into Lily, right? >> To get her to come back to Marshall. Like he saves that relationship. >> And and like I had completely forgotten that. And he

there are these moments like yes he wants to uh get laid. Yes he want but nothing means more to him than His friends. Like there's a kind of loyalty to his friends that is very so sweet. I think >> his chosen family for sure. >> It's his chosen family. Yeah. No you it it keeps coming up. It's like it's actually like way more prevalent than I remember it being in the first two seasons. Barney's stories are not are often not about chasing women at all. They're they're they're often about friendship. He just wants to be

>> the mystery of the dude allowed you guys as writers, I think, >> to have him be able to randomly go and fly somewhere to prove a point to come back, right? The ambig ambiguity. >> And even you remember that u remember that Scorpion and the Toad episode, Neil, where Barney keeps taking all the women from Marshall, >> who's now single beginning of season two. Yeah. >> Yeah. He keeps stealing all the women. He's helping Marshall and he's like, "No, I'm going to take I'm going to take care." >> And he he throws the number

out of the cab and Marshall gets out of the cab, but then he has it up his sleeve. Like there's all these like >> And we were like, "Oh my god, Barney's so horrible in this episode." But then 12, 15 episodes later, you realize he says to Lily, I can't keep stealing all these women from Marshall to keep him on Ice for you. Essentially, >> he says, he has a great line. He says, "Um, Marshall's the best and there's only a matter of time until another woman sees that, so get back to New York City."

Now, it's a whole scene where Lily doesn't say a word. It's in San Francisco. Barney flies there and he's wearing the same suit. He does not let Lily even speak. He closes the door and flies back to New York. And that is what got her back and that's what got them Married. And Barney becomes Marshall's best man in that episode because he's earned it. Uh, and it's it's it's great. And like a lot of a lot of it is about that with Barney. It's cool. You think of Barney as this womanizer and it's the playbook

and it's this it's really not a lot of the time. >> Can I ask Can I ask a a writer question >> because what I realized in the >> the nine seasons of this show is that I never ever went into the writer room. >> Yeah. >> I mean maybe three times. Yeah. I I would sort of come and visit maybe more in the last season of like, hey, it's the last season, but I never really felt welcome. Uh, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's just like it was a different room in a different

world. And when I did go and sit there, it was like weird. It was like the energy had shifted because now like the person that you're writing about and pitching jokes About is now like sitting there and there was a self-consciousness. So, I just never went. Yeah. >> Barney to the pos or in like that scene with Marshall stealing and and Barney stealing all the things. Was it was that just a comedy driver that Barney would steal all his girls and only 10 12 episodes later did you did you think, oh, we can reconnect that?

Yeah, I think with [clears throat] that one specifically, I think we it was only Comedy at the time and then we w we we sort of went a few episodes past we were like, "God, Barney was a [ __ ] dick in that one." We how can this be clever? There's more to Barney than this. There's something about Barney and your performance of him that made the writers made all of us want to peel back the layers. It was just like this onion like let's what's underneath this? What makes him this way? And I think

part of it is how inh how fully inhabited you were in The part. And it was something like, well, what's beneath this though? And it was just like psychologically fascinating to sort of dig into that. And I think that's what I mean, the chemistry between you and the writers, whether or not you were literally in the room. There was something about the mystery and the power of that performance that we're like, we got to understand this guy more. And whatever it was, it sent us kind of excavating Into him. And we said, you know what

it could be? It could be that he had a grand plan about this Marshall thing because he actually does love Marshall tremendously much. And in some ways the it is it's what you said. It's his chosen family. >> I I love that >> he is the way he is cuz cuz he does not have the family. He he has a great brother and his mom is complicated but it's his mom but he never had a dad and He's felt lonely and he does he he would die for these friends. He would these friends are the

most important to him. It was one of the greatest joys of the whole show was the experience of sitting to read a new episode. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Sitting by myself reading it cuz we didn't know. You didn't You guys never ever once really drunk at a at a Christmas party. You said, "Do you want to know at the end?" This was late in [laughter] the game. I think episode like like season seven or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. when you had finally fully cracked it in the way >> and you and I didn't

really want to know but I think it wasn't until then like seven years in so I didn't know any of it and you were >> you said no I said good I'll tell you >> I'll tell you doesn't matter >> do you know what you know what that strikes me as Neil is like when you're On the show especially if it's a good show there's a weird thing where you're on the show you're playing the character you're in the ensemble but you're also a fan of the show >> so your first and only almost like

um first response of like getting to appreciate it as a fan is sitting by yourself and reading the episode 100% >> because otherwise then you you enter into the thing. >> Yeah, >> sure. And there's a he he element of just like I'm going to get to do this next week. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I'm going to play a hairdresser that's super zesty. Okay, that'll [laughter] be fun. >> But you know what made a couple things that just made us laugh? when you marry Marshall and Lily, when you when you're uh the the officient, >>

you're you did this a couple times in This show, but like talking through tears like trying not to cry. Barney, >> it's a goat voice. It's a goat voice. >> The goat voice. The goat voice. >> That goat voice. I'm saying the goat [laughter] voice. And also when people ask me what was the hardest you laughed on set >> in Ariva Dare Fiero when you do that thing where they say I thought you loved the Fiero and he says love it and you turn to the wall and you do that I hate It. Do you

remember that? >> I hate it. I remember very well. I remember everyone laughing too. [laughter] >> When you first did it it crushed all of us and then I had I was a breaker. You're not a breaker. We do say this that you were the least breaky I think of everyone. >> It did not break very often. That's >> when you did it was for real. But it was rare. >> You know, >> Seagull broke you up now and again. I feel like Seagull would do some weird [ __ ] that would break you, but

it was I mean, you broke once a season like that. You really You're very good at the dead. You >> I think Seagull Seagull broke us all when he had the pants that Lily was trying to get him to not the MC >> the MC Hammer the parachute pants. >> Oh my god, I remember that. But also, Neil, one thing that we keep commenting on is the swiftness with which you're able to make some of these turns. Like, like when James says um that they're having a son and you say there's going to be a

baby like that, you remember that? >> You're railing against marriage. >> You're railing against a dime. >> Like there's something I It almost strikes me as like slaloming down a hill And like clearing like a really hard flag or something. just your turns are so sharp and so swift. Like, is that is that just something instinctual to you as a comic actor? >> Maybe. I I Thank you. That's very sweet. I um >> I knew that we were doing a comedy, right? So I >> I was really I was really focused on on the form

>> and so I was I was sort of trying to Channel my best Carol Bernett shows and >> you know three's companies and things um >> because >> I we were all we were all I was worried that we were going to get cancelled all the time and like we were all I it seemed a little concerned about why it wasn't getting a bigger reaction sooner and [snorts] we were working really hard and we were sort of maybe getting picked up and then like and oh and by the way these final Four shows all get

picked up. There was no heralding about it and so you know I was cozying up to less moonz and cozying up to the fox heads as as much as I could and as much as I was able because I also for just longevity. So I was in those scenes I was try, you know, I was trying to be as [ __ ] funny and as and as we were singing for our supper as I could. >> Could you argue that that was good that kept us all very alert like those whole It wasn't like we

were a huge hit. It was I think you referenced this earlier Josh like maybe it was good that we were also hungry. I felt that way as a writer. The writer room felt that way like we've got to keep surprising people. We've got to find new things that hook people in. We've got to find things that get attention. We did. We were not coasting. We were not right. We were not taking anything for granted any of us. And it's it's hard to understand That because the show is a became a big hit and and in

some ways has become an even bigger hit since it went off the air and other generations are finding it. People the younger folks listening to this podcast might not realize like we were not secure at all in season 2. We did not know >> two three >> two three four maybe four five is when we exhaled. When we got a two season pickup right one year >> I think that might have been four like four or five. Yeah. That was when it started. >> Yeah. cuz once [clears throat] we got a fourth season, then we

were in syndication. That meant 100 episodes, which means that we could then and so that was the big >> turning point. Like if we can get a season 4 pickup, then we might go six or seven seasons because then they'll have more vested interests to have more Episodes. >> I also forgot, Craig, didn't Lifetime pick us up and start airing old episodes or something like >> they did when it when it sold in syndication. They were sort of first to slap it on there. Um, and but we got on into Netflix even before the full

syndication thing. Netflix changed everything and all of a sudden we were like, "Wait a second. >> We're this is happening. People are People are consuming the show in the way it sort of is meant to be consumed in this obsessive way and all those details and all those setups and payoffs and it's a soap opera." Like it was we were the right show for for this new technology that was coming. >> I always kind of felt that that my performance annoyed you, Josh. What? [music] And on that the rare cliffhanger, we invite you to join

us next week for the Exciting conclusion of How We Met Neil Patrick [music] Harris. >> I am guilty. Please acquit me. All sins are forgiven in New York City. How We Made Your Mother is hosted and executive produced by Josh Rner and Craig Thomas and is presented and distributed by the Office Ladies Network and [music] Odyssey. This episode is also executive produced by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. The show is produced and edited by me, Alec Lev, [music] and our co-producer is Doug Madaka. Our audio producer and mixer is Alex Reeves at Point toBlue Studios.

Our digital content producer, aka Gen Z Master, is Emily [music] Blumbberg. Artwork by John Marorrow. Please follow, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts or your podcast player of choice. [music] It really does help the show. Our theme song is New York City by our own Josh Rner with additional music by Craig Thomas and Andrew Majuski. Special thanks to Lola Kennedy and Elliot [music] Connors. Visit how we madeyourmother.com to learn more and click on the contact page to send us an email [music] or voice message. Your stories and questions are an important part of

the show. Subscribe to Joshra Rner's newsletters on Substack and check out his music and everything [music] else at joshradner.com. Order Craig Thomas' debut novel, That's Not How It Happened, wherever books are sold. And check out his other published writings at craigthomaswriter.com. [music] And you can subscribe to my own Dead Father's Society, also on Substack. To learn more about how you make a difference, this show's ongoing campaign to raise money for congenital pediatric heart disease research. Check out the Make a [music] Difference tab at the top Of our website. People will in fact dance. [music] >>

The real question, it just hit me. Am I in love with you or just New York City?