Drink Less and Prosper

from The New York Times you're listening to the wire cutter show hey everyone it's the wire cutter show I'm Kyra Blackwell I'm Christine sir cette and I'm Rosie Garen and we work at wire cutter the product recommendation site from The New York Times each week we bring you expert advice from our Newsroom of 140 journalists who review everyday products that will make your life better this episode of The Wire cutter show is called drink less and prosper happy New Year Pals 2025 W here we come we're on off of the bang yeah we're living in

the future what are your resolutions will either of you be doing dry January well it is January the years I've tried I feel like I've failed so completely that I don't want to actually commit do you does that does that I also like the idea of not committing completely res that's why I don't make resolution well dry January is something that a lot of folks are doing and I get it actually I really do because I've consistently been seeing reporting every month it just seems like more and more research comes out about how bad drinking

is for us I find this devastating it's really bad can we not have anything anymore like nothing yeah life can't be fun I feel like I think life can be fun but just not alcohol but just don't ask me how just kidding so I really identify with this I have gone on this whole kind of if we can say a journey over the last couple years with alcohol where I like a lot of people during the pandemic I drank a lot much more actually than I ever had before I don't I don't consider myself to

have an issue with alcohol but I did drink a lot and then I ended up having a health scare a couple years ago and started reading a lot about what are the lifestyle factors that could you know improve my situation and alcohol kept coming up as the thing you probably should be cutting out so I've gone through lots of phases over the last few years of completely cutting alcohol out which can be very unfun at dinner parties honestly it's like such a bummer but you know I kind of feel like this is not just uh

I'm in my 40s I'm trying to get healthier kind of a thing Kyra I'm curious what you think cuz you're in your 20s I I feel like this there is sort of a sobriety movement in younger people at this point yeah I would say my generation really Embraces the California sober which is when you put the drinks down and you pick up the joint but I think you're better than me because I have endometriosis I'm very open about that and my doctor was like maybe you should stop drinking all the drinks and I was like

I'll just cut out tequila well you know whether you participate in dry January or you're just sober curious today we're going to go over some strategies for cutting back on alcohol first we're going to bring in Dana G Smith a health reporter for the new yorktimes times she works on the well desk and she's a wealth of information on the emerging science about how alcohol impacts Health we're going to talk with Dana about the most important things to know and how even just cutting back a little bit can lower your risk of a bunch of

diseases that's right and then we're coming in hot with some fun non-alcoholic Alternatives you might want to sip on this month and maybe Beyond we're bringing on margarite Preston who is the senior editor overseeing all of our kitchen and food and drinks coverage Margaret leads a team that's tested dozens of Na drinks for our na drink reviews and she's also a cocktail lover who enjoys a really good NA drink so she's had both sides she's going to walk us through how to build a great na bar cart you'll love and it won't feel sad I

love this we're coming in with the serious you got to know the health implications and then we're going to get into the fun stuff right it's going to be fun we're going to take a quick break and when we're back we'll talk with Dana Smith we'll be right back [Music] [Music] welcome back to the wire cutter show today we're talking with Dana G Smith a New York Times Reporter specializing in personal health over the past couple of years Dana has reported on the sad but true fact that alcohol is actually worse for us than anyone

used to believe and they're growing trend of non-alcoholic beverages Dana welcome to the wire cutter show thanks so much for having me it's great to have you here I've read a lot of your work over the last couple years specifically around this uh growing body of research that really shows that alcohol kind of at any level of consumption is not great for us which is such a bummer in the old days I feel like to me the old days for some reason feel like pre pandemic but I don't know why but um no that's accur

yeah is that the is that the old days I think people used to think that they would associate really heavy drinking with things like liver disease but we're now coming to understand that even moderate drinking can lead to you know risks of several types of cancer of high blood pressure of heart disease so first of all I want to just ask you what does moderate drinking really mean that is a harder question to answer than you might think it really depends on what country you live in technically in the US moderate drinking is is one

drink or less a day for women and two drinks or less per day for men and some people actually think that that is too high especially the two drinks a day for men when we start to experience Health consequences is like a little bit of a harder question to pin down though so there's some evidence that alcohol can start to harm our health even below those levels but really we know that like the biggest risk is if you drink more than that so that's what you really want to try and avoid Dana you mentioned that

it depends on where you live can you explain why that is so every country sets their kind of moderate drinking levels or or kind of their dietary guidelines differently recently there's been a push in the last couple of years or so to be about 10 drinks a week total for both men and women so a lot of this is coming out with um kind of new research on the health harms of alcohol and countries are kind of really adjusting their National recommendations now to try and keep up with that research I'm oscillating between shock and

disappointment because 10 drinks a week seems too high and two drinks seems too little I don't know where I stand actually it's true it's it's really hard to pin down that's what I mean like there is no like Universal definition of what is moderate or safe drinking so it really depends country by country and it's frustrating and confusing and scientists are trying to adapt as we learn new research well I think all of us know when we've had too much cuz you wake up and you feel like death but why is alcohol so bad for

us what does the research show yeah so in your body alcohol is broken down in your liver into a chemical called acid alhy and acid alahh is really bad for us it actually damages your DNA it prevents the DNA from then repairing itself um and so that can lead to all kinds of problems you know we know that excessive alcohol use is associated with problems in the heart problems in the brain seven different types of cancer acid alahh can also cause oxidative stress which can damage your blood V vessels which is why excessive alcohol use

is associated with high blood pressure as well and you mentioned liver disease earlier you know that is definitely where we see the most damage I also read in one of your pieces about how it kind of also depends on on a personal level some people metabolize alcohol differently right than others like some people can handle alcohol better than others yeah there's two Gene variants that we know of that affect how the alcohol is broken down into acid alahh and they're actually most common in people of Asia descent but basically what it means is that there's

more acid alahh in your body because of how your liver is metabolizing the alcohol and like I said acid alad is really bad for you so having more in your body is you know also really bad for you interestingly women also appear to metabolize alcohol a little bit differently than men do we know that women have greater harms from alcohol even at the same level of drinking than men part of that may just be kind of a body size issue but researchers also think there is something different about how the liver is metabolizing that alcohol

and so that's why in the US you know that moderate drinking is different for men and women because the health harms for women actually do start at lower levels of alcohol consumption which is very unfair yeah that's no fun I I feel like I that I want to I want a like a refund or something refund on your body you know there's a lot that goes into how you metabolize alcohol some of it is just kind of body size in general you know also whether you have food in your stomach whether you've just eaten recently

you know a lot of things can kind of affect how your body is metabolizing alcohol in the moment but we do know in general that like more alcohol and more acid alahh in your system is bad for you that's why you know again come back to those moderate drinking recommendations it it's supposed to be average over a week so you can't just like not drink Monday through Friday and then have all seven or 14 drinks on the weekend and think that that will be you know you're still within the moderate limit because how much alcohol

is in your body at one time really does impact those Health harms as well so like it's really meant to be kind of like a daily limit not like a weekly combined amount that you're [Music] drinking all right Dana break my heart about red wine go on go ahead yeah I'm sorry okay so to me this is like it's a really fascinating research story like kind of like a statistical story so you know we used to think that a little bit of alcohol especially a little bit of red wine was actually good for you we

sure did we we took our daily medicine the Glorious you know '90s and early 2000s that came from research showing that people who drink you know within those like low to moderate levels that we've been talking about actually lived longer than people who didn't drink at all and so researchers thought that that might be because there was some benefit to this low amount of alcohol and they looked at red wine specifically because there are antioxidants in red wine particularly one called Resveratrol that researchers got excited about and thought may be beneficial for heart health the

latest research has not backed that up you know when researchers look at ratol on its own it doesn't really seem to provide the benefits that we hoped it did also it comes from grapes skins so if there really was a benefit of R veratrol you should probably just eat more grapes rather than drinking wine but the most interesting funny is that like that benefit of low to Modern amounts of alcohol researchers now think was just kind of a statistical artifact so there are other patterns of behavior that people who drink low to moderate amounts of

alcohol also have they're more likely to exercise they're less likely to smoke they're more likely to eat more fruits and vegetables so now researchers think that that kind of health benefit effect of alcohol is actually due to those other healthy behaviors that people had very sorry to everyone to be kind of the ultimate buzz kill when it comes to red wine my pepe when he was still alive my grandfather used to drink like the little Parisian beastro glasses of red wine so he would have like three fingers of red wine in the afternoon and then

maybe some with dinner and we created maybe some family lore around that was like okay well moderate red wine it's like having you know a multivitamin or something now hearing you speak about these other correlating factors he also baked bread and he was out all day gardening and walking and he went to bed at true Mediterranean island he just was like you know living a really really healthy lifestyle so I think a lot of that tracks I mean it sounds like you can have your glass of wine every day if you're also just living a

really nice moderate life in the wild with your berries that's the thing is that I write these articles and people get really upset with me in the comments because they're thinking that I'm saying that you can't drink at all or that you know any amount of alcohol is bad for you and we just really don't know the Threshold at which it turns bad but that doesn't mean that that you know three fingers of wine a day is causing serious problems you know you can still have a glass of wine with dinner just try not to

go over that kind of drink a day and maybe try and take a couple days off a week but that doesn't mean you have to abstain completely that is a great point and I think really Segways into our next question which is around reducing some of the risks associated with alcohol I mean I imagine what you'll say is it's about balance and moderation and and looking at some of these other factors in your in your life but talk about that yeah you know what the researchers say is really it's people who drink more than that

moderate amount who are really at risk so if you're drinking 3 four five drinks a day if you cut back even one or two drinks that's going to have a really big impact on your health like that's the people who are going to see the most benefit if you're within those moderate amounts you know your wrist might go up a little bit but like it it's a tiny amount like it's it's really more about trying to help people be informed about their health you don't have to stop drinking you don't have to go cold turkey

just try and cut back a little bit if you're above those moderate level levels and if you're within that moderate range that's fine that's really nice to hear yeah I sometimes go through these Purge and you know I like I'll quit completely and then I'll really want to have a glass of wine but I'm like it's so bad for me but that kind of gives me permission to be a little looser I guess yeah I mean I have to confess you know even doing all this reporting like I still drink wine I still enjoy a

glass of wine in the evening occasionally I'll have two when I'm out with friends I know that that's not the best thing for my health but it's all about making informed decisions about your health like that's really what my reporting is hopefully doing for people it doesn't mean that you have to stop drinking at all it doesn't you know it's not trying to shame anyone it's just trying to help people be a little bit more aware this episode is really timed for a dry January which has been a thing for years and we are going

to talk later about non-alcoholic drinks with our colleague Margaret Preston but you wrote a piece Dana last year about how sales of non-alcoholic beverages are on the rise so why do you think people are reducing alcohol now is it the health risks do drinks just suck now like what's going on yeah I think the rise in non-alcoholic beverages is so fascinating there's a a stat that I found that the sales of Na beverages grew by over 30% between 2022 and 2023 and alcohol sales are basically flat during that time so we're really seeing a rise

in the sale of any beverages you know it still makes up a very small portion compared to Total alcohol sales but it definitely is gaining in popularity when there have been surveys of people who drink na beverages which there's not a ton of research on the topic one of the number one things as people say is because they're trying to be more health conscious a lot of people were drinking more during the pandemic especially the early days and there have been a lot of scary articles that have come out recently that alcohol related deaths are

really On The Rise and so one theory is that the popularity of Na beverages is kind of in response to that to people being a little bit more aware about these Health harms of alcohol and trying to adjust their behaviors they also just taste better than they used to I think that there's been a lot of progress in terms of the manufacturing of these drinks themselves so you know that certainly doesn't hurt yeah I mean anecdotally after I had covid I had a really strange reaction to alcohol for about a year any sip of any

alcoholic drink it made me throw up I yeah it was some really weird long covid reaction that I had for like a couple years after I got Co in 2020 oh wow that's one way to quit I know s s to hear that well something that I have found even in my own life as I've sort of started to explore non-alcoholic beers and and different drinks is that I sometimes like having a non-alcoholic option not because I'm necessarily completely cutting alcohol out maybe my husband and I will sometimes have NA beer in the fridge and

we'll drink that during the week and then maybe we'll actually have like a real beer on the weekend it kind of seems like a lot of people are using these na drinks as sort of like a supplement to their regular consumption have you found that in your reporting absolutely yeah that was um one stat that actually really stood out to me that it's estimated that about 80% of people who drink na beverages also drink alcohol so it's not people who are you know abstaining completely or are really trying to quit alcohol it's just people who

are kind of moderating their drinking with an NA beverage I'm curious in this very well maybe a can of worms but I'm wondering about these non-alcoholic drinks that have CBD or THC has your reporting shown that these are a safer alternative to alcohol that is a great question and it's something we have debated a lot on the well desk about kind of how to tackle that question as far as I'm aware there aren't any head-to-head comparisons looking at the health harms of alcoholic drinks versus drinks that contain THC or CBD we know that there are

health risks from high cannabis use those are different from the health risks from high alcohol use so but it's it's kind of hard to compare them Head to Head it's a little bit of a wild west right now in the THC drink world because they're not really regulated so you know one thing just a flag is that like you know you should really look at the can about how much THC is in the drink like it can vary wildly whether it's 5 milligrams up to 20 milligrams of THC that's going to have a very different

effect on you so Dana I want to Pivot a little bit because something that I noticed in your article about non-alcoholic drinks is that these aren't always going to be completely safe for some people who have an alcohol add addiction or a so-called alcohol use disorder why is that yeah I mean there's not a ton of research on it right now but one of the experts I spoke with said that because these beverages are are kind of better quote unquote now like they're more similar to standard alcoholic beverages there is a concern that if someone

is abstaining because they have an alcohol use disorder that an NA beverage could be kind of like a trigger you know like if you really had a problem with drinking a lot of beer and then you have an NA beer it it might cause you to Crave more beer in your brain because they are very similar but on the flip side she also said that they could help people stop drinking that if you're really trying to cut back you know you can switch to that NA beer and maybe even replace regular beer completely with an

NA beer we just need more research on kind of how they might be either helping or harming people who have an alcohol use disorder thank you so much Dana this has been super interesting and I'm I'm I feel like I'm winning I'm winning with with this right again thanks Dana thank you thanks so much okay we're going to take a quick break and then when we're back we're going to talk with wire cutter senior kitchen editor Margaret Preston about the non-alcoholic drinks we've tested at wire cutter and we're going to be doing a cheeky little

taste test too so tune in for that if you're curious about trying out the sober life this month you may want to pick some of these up we'll be right back [Music] [Music] welcome back to the wire cutter show this episode we're focused on dry January earlier in the show we chatted with health reporter Dana Smith from New York Times about the health impacts of alcohol and how cutting back even just a little can reduce the risk of many diseases now we're going to get into the really fun part we are going to talk about

some non-alcoholic Alternatives that might help you cut back this month that's right I'm excited yes so we're going to talk with margarite Preston who is wire cutter senior kitchen editor who oversees all the kitchen gear and all the food and drink reviews she's also a cocktail lover who really does enjoy a good NA cocktail she's tested dozens of Na drinks for our na drink review and she's edited guides for wire cutter on na wines and hop water so Margaret's going to walk us through how to build a great na bar cart that won't feel sad

welcome to the show margarite thank you for having me before we get into this are you doing triy January no I'm not I think like partly it's just not my personality I can't do the like month-long challenge type of thing but also I just don't really drink that much to begin with I think ever since being pregnant and not drinking for 9 months like I have no tolerance I'll have a drink if I like go to a restaurant or something but otherwise I just don't so so you don't need to formalize it no need to

commit for the whole month we were talking about that earlier yeah it's it seems like we're a whole group of non non-committal drinkers um okay so margarite you and your team have tried out a lot of non-alcoholic drinks and we have a guide to non-alcoholic wine to nonalcoholic spirits and to hop water so if somebody is interested in kind of trying out this sort of new branch of drinks that are available out there that are non-alcoholic what do you think are some good entry points like if they like drinking wine should they try a non-alcoholic

wine is there a different way that you would approach that yeah I mean I think it depends right like you could be disappointed if you try to just go one to one with your favorite drink depending on what it is dealcoholized wine just doesn't quite have the same oomph in body as real wine so you might taste it and be like this is a little disappointing with the spirits I think it really depends on the Spirits most of the most successful non-alcoholic drinks we've had a lot of them are really like based on herbs and

roots and really complex flavors like that so spirits that are similar like Jin or like an Amaro a spritz that's made with aprol or something like that those tend to be like pretty satisfying as non-alcoholic versions if you're trying to replicate something like bourbon you might be disappointed I think if you can find the ones that come in a can and just like buy one can to try that's a good way to start start if you live in a city bars and restaurants now do serve some non-alcoholic drinks using these large format Spirits as a

base or they'll just sell the cans that you can buy that's a good way to try something without committing to the whole bottle that's interesting and you mentioned dealcoholized dealcoholized can I say that uh wine that's also something that is done to beer right so it's like it is made with alcohol and then they're taking out the the alcohol right okay do not ask me the science it's magic they do it by and do you personally have a favorite that you kind of turn to yeah I like the kind of ones in the spirits realm

I am the type of person who likes herbaceous I really love amaros so like things that are sort of in a similar vein I like this one that's not actually a top pick but it is something that we say is worth considering if you like that Amaro flavor profile it's called the Pathfinder it's quite bitter but it also has this kind of like root beer Alpine herbs flavor that I really [Music] like I've noticed that they have a lot of like you said herbaceous flavors to them which can be really fun and adventurous but have

you stumbled across some that you feel have just an off-putting flavor things that you probably should avoid if you're looking at the label and you don't really know what it is I think the one thing that we sort of generally have found we dislike across the board is sugar Alternatives so like monk fruit Stevia these kind of like low calorie noal sweeteners they just can be really cloying they like coat your tongue with this unpleasant taste we just we will taste stuff that have them but we tend to not like them there's also a lot

of kind of like medicinal sort of things like Rishi mushrooms and ashwaganda and things that they say are kind of like giving you some kind of feeling or something we can't really speak to whether that's true or not those can add a flavor that ends up being like oh this tastes like old timey medicine or something yeah at the the apothecaries I don't like that in the guut itself I was surprised to see how expensive some of these have gotten like the same price as as a bottle of real alcohol why do you think that

is it's something that a lot of people comment on and are like oh my God they're so expensive like partly I think that reaction is sort of a cultural programming right we've been programmed to think that alcohol should cost a certain amount of money and that things that aren't alcohol are juice or water so they shouldn't and I think that's like not totally fair for these drinks I mean I do think there probably is some element of marketing there where they want you to feel like you're drinking something special and spending more might make you

feel like you're drinking something special but I think also a lot of them have a lot of ingredients to make them taste complex and interesting they're not just juice and there's also the production that goes into mixing them and making them I think also you have to think about the fact that there is a enormous multi-billion dollar production industry behind making alcohol I don't think that really is that for non-alcoholic drinks so I think a lot of these producers are kind of like they have their own special bottles and they're figuring out how to like

blend them and bottle them and it's probably on a very small scale which means it's going to cost more so I think ultimately the prices probably are pretty fair it's just that we're not used to thinking about non-alcoholic things that way and the bottles are beautiful they're really pretty I mean I think they have to probably be to say jump off the shelf pick me this $50 bottle of stuff that's not going to get you drunk um I do appreciate the packaging and I've experimented a lot with many of the recommendations we have these large

format non-alcoholic spirits and last year my mom came to visit and I got a few of them and I was at first shocked by the price but then it kind of felt fine because I didn't want to just drink seltzer with my mom we were both of us were not drinking at the time and we wanted to have happy hour we were on vacation we wanted to have like sit back have some some nibbles drink a drink feel like we were doing something special and so pouring from these bottles was fun it was like way

more fun than it would have been if I was like do you want some cranberry and soda you know um so I I'm just wondering like how much of this whole na Spirits movement is kind of around the ritual or the culture of it yeah I think a lot of it is and that was something we were really looking for when we were tasting and making our picss was like we want want something that is fun that you could serve at a party or to a guest to make them feel special and make them feel

included when they're at a party and not drinking or just for your like I like to drink something when I'm watching TV at night and like I don't just want to chug an orange juice I want to like slowly sip something so you know we were looking for things with flavors that were complex enough that a they would light up your brain a little bit and make your brain kind of like think and and be interested and engaged in the drinking experience but also like that you couldn't drink too fast that's where the bitterness comes

in also things like ginger adds kind of this warm spiciness that can feel a little bit like that comforting warming alcohol feeling yeah all those things to just make it feel a little more special than just drinking Selzer [Music] juice all right well I'm looking at these gorgeous bottles that you brought in can we taste test yes let's do it let's party so margarite we're going to taste a couple of things that are official pcks in our non-alcoholic Spirits guide that guide doesn't have any top top picks it's like a collection of things that were

sort of widely liked and I think we're going to taste one thing that didn't actually make it into that official pick section they just didn't appeal to The Wider group yeah and it's actually in what we call our like worth considering section so it's like it was well liked by the people who like liked it and then there were people who really didn't like it right it's so subjective let's go maybe in order of sort of like lightest to darkest so the lightest one is pentire which is They Don't Really Market it this way but

it is kind of like gin adjacent I would say it's clear it's got this very herbaceous flavor it's made in Cornwall so it has all these sort of like SE Coastal sea ingredients that I sampire and sea percing that I couldn't tell you what those taste like to me you get sage and maybe Rosemary and some other Herby flavors I think the bottle is pretty enough that I would bring it to a party like I would I would feel comfortable going it's beautiful yeah you could try it straight but I think it's going to be

best if we mix it with some tonic I'm and this comes in a full bottle so you would expect to be mixing it yes they do also sell canned like cocktails so they sell like a pentir and tonic that is kind of a premixed thing they make one Spirit which we didn't like as much I love that you brought a garnish too I love aarish classy establishment I think what we found when we were testing and what I do at home is a lot of these really adding a little squeeze of lemon or something really

does a lot all right Cheers Cheers okay I wow Rosy's face just went from delighted to Pure disgust doesn't like it f don't know how to describe what this flavor is there's a there's a medicine that this tastes like and I can't put my finger on it we find ourselves doing a lot of that in the taste test we're like this tastes like chloroseptic like what is this like it almost tastes Briny to me but I don't know actually this is growing on me I've had this one before actually I this is I feel like

it is like the same sort of experience I would have with the Gonic it's definitely herbaceous to me so I'm getting herbs like you you me mentioned Sage I'm almost getting like thyme I it is Briny I don't know like I could it seems like the right thing to drink on a hot day to me like it's a hot weather drink to me I can I just say one last thing about this I really respect what this is doing I think it is complex I think that there are a lot of really interesting flavors in

it I really yeah I get it I really do get it and I do think it's very very interesting yeah now you're pouring Theon Negroni yeah srus phony Negroni I have only ever seen phony negronis in bottles and this is a can which seems very convenient if you're and it is bubbly the cans are newer the cans are very convenient you don't need a bottle opener they're cute I like that this brand is everywhere now I see it in just regular grocery stores yeah this is one where I think also like a ton of bars

and restaurants will have it yeah it smells like a candy I get it's like Mar Marino yeah Marino cherries mhm this one tastes like soda to me with a bitter aftertaste it's very sweet love how bitter it is like AER like a cherry soda with a bitter aftertaste got to get a little lemon in here yeah I like the lemon with it or like a huge wedge of orange it it is surprisingly bitter I love it I think it's so nice it's impressive because at first I was like oh it just tastes like soda but

then I get hit with that bitter aftertaste I'm like oh actually no I'm not going to but this is the thing you could be drinking this at a party and no one would even bat an eye they would just think you were drinking an apparal Spritz or of the Negroni totally they'd have no idea it was phony this is lovely yeah I like I do like it with the lemon and the soda it's good it's lovely yeah all right what do we have next okay this is the Pathfinder this is one of my favorites when

I drink the Pathfinder I like to make a cocktail I juice a half a lemon over ice and then I pour the Pathfinder and then I like Uncle wy's ginger beer oh yeah Bonnet I feel like the bitterness plus the really spiciness that like kicks you in the back of the throat it's nice and then the lemon brings it all together and kind of like lifts it up that sounds nice it's like chocolate a little I like the way it smells mhm this is like this is nice it's almost syrupy yeah is like this is

giving Woods of Mane Woods of man she's like it's calling me home it's got that like piny Sprucey I feel like I should be wearing a flannel dry this cozy I've actually not had this straight and this is so nice yeah it's a it's really I've never really had anything like this before that's special that and that yeah that's that's the hope that's the goal it's like oh yeah I haven't this is interesting and I've never tasted anything like this it doesn't remind me of like MH a spin drift you know if you were helping

someone build a really fun non-alcohol barart what are some favorites that you would suggest people have on hand you're always going to want the basics like Selzer or tonic or ginger beer if you like ginger beer like one of those as a mixer and citrus again I think often elevates it some of the drinks we recommend are kind of just like simpler and lighter than some of these there's kasamara Maro sodas which are very light like just kind of like herbaceous selters basically which I really love they have a complex flavor more so than it

sounds from like Seltzer but those could be a good mixer there's also Hela Bitters and soda they make just like cans that's like I love those yeah they're so good they make a few flavors that also speaks to the fact that you could just have bitters on your bar cart yeah and add those we one of our gift guys we recommend this brand called bitter Queens they make like a little four pack of different Bitters and fun flavors like one is like a smoky lopsang suang they call it Tobacco bits but it doesn't use tobacco

also just the same kind of like little add-ons that you would garnish a cocktail with like get some nice luardo Cherry you tried the luxardo cherries those cherri love the it's a real step up from you know your classic Marino Cherry yeah oh myar before we wrap we usually ask our guests all one final question which is what's the last thing you bought that you've really loved okay no judgment cuz I will explain that this is better than it sound we listen and we don't judge I got myself for the first time ever as an

adult I bought myself an advent calendar and it's an instant coffee Advent calendar from Onyx Coffee Roasters um I'm not judging I love it I love it so much I think it's so great okay so you and I are kind of in the same stage of life where we have three-ish yearold children I don't have a drip coffee Brew at home I have a gazillion other ways to make coffee all of them are too involved for the morning and instant coffee all you have have to do is pour the water in and the technology has

really changed and developed it's like it's not folders every day is a different coffee it's like a different roast they tell you where it's from they all taste different they all taste like coffee like they don't taste bad I swear I love this and you're a coffee person like you're into coffee I was not expecting you to say that that's really fun though thank you so much for joining us fun fun love drinking on the job with you anytime [Music] I'm feeling kind of buzzed you guys just on life I hope just the high of

being with you of course what did you all take away from that for me I feel better I feel like drinking is not such a scary thing I know that we seeing things constantly about how bad it is for your health but I feel like I'm actually drinking within the moderate amount and I was a little bit surprised cuz honestly I came in here thinking that I was going to have to change my ways but I do like this idea that you can have a few drinks a week and you're going to be fine and

if you want to abstain for a little bit like you do sometimes Christine I think that's totally normal and healthy but also like you don't have to be afraid of living your life a little bit and having a glass of wine a couple well especially if you're embracing the idea of moderation you know it's one factor in an entire kind of story yeah like you're Grandpa right bringing it back to your grandpa my my takeaway is that I just want to be like your Pepe actually great guy just live a good life such a great

guy um me I feel I'm thinking back to the the non-alcoholic Spirits we tasted with margarit thinking about why they're so expensive because I really I I I enjoy buying them but I often hesitate when I'm at the store thinking these are expensive this is a lot of money so thinking a little bit deeper about maybe why they're expensive and the fact that these are real ingredients some of them rarer than others that go into creating these bitter profiles or whatever flavor profile you're getting I have a better understanding of that and so I think

I maybe won't cringe as hard and like that I you know if it's okay to buy a bottle of bourbon for 50 bucks then it's probably okay to buy a bottle of an NA spirit that I really like and I'm going to enjoy at home for the same amount yeah I think talking with Dana reiterated for me that my inclination to be cautious about alcohol is probably the correct path if you're you know regardless of what your health is but you know I was facing kind of like a a health scare like a cancer scare

and I cutting back is probably the way to go but her overall advice was what my doctor said which was basically like yeah you don't have to cut out alcohol completely just be moderate right so so even if I do have some actual alcohol this month I am also going to experiment with some of these other na drinks and I really am opened up now to the Citrus that Margaret recommended so I'll be trying some squeezes of citrus in my na drinks yeah I really change things yeah for sure Elevate with that garnish mhm well

that's it for us you can find more information on all of wire cutters recommended non-alcoholic drinks at NY times.com Wirecutter Happy New Year herey year happy New Year here's what's coming up next week on The Wire cutter show I was seeing the scene in office space when they're all beating up the the printer and just like dissembling it in the I'd be lying if I haven't had fantasies about dropping this thing off our balcony make sure you're following the show on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss it the wire cutter show is executive

produced by Rosie Garen and produced by Abigail Keel editing by ke engineering support from mie maell and Nick Pitman original music by Dan Powell Maran Lozano Alicia but and Diane Wong wire Cutter's Deputy publisher and interim general manager is Cliff Ley Ben fuman is wire cutters editorinchief I'm cover Blackwell I'm Christine s cette and I'm Rosie Garen thanks for [Music] listening this is like I Came Upon a bottle in the wood and I was like you know let me try this well you should never drink a random bottle you find in the woods for but