[Music] you guys ask forward and of course that is deep Dives on projects and of course the one that we're going to hit on today is going to be virtuals and we'll have Jensen Tang on here in a minute so stick around for that it's going to be a good one my name is Paul bar welcome back in a tech path let's get into it today I do want to thank our sponsor and that is uphold if you guys Max actually you can get virtuals virtual on uphold so check it out just go over to
uphold.com here in the US you of course can do a lot of things over there including one-step trading they have available so very easy to set it up if you're brand new to crypto this is a great place to get started and some of these tokens other thing that's kind of interesting about uphold is they will give you early access not really early access but they'll give you notifications of when a token is going to get listed on there if you're part of their program so use our link down below you'll get some additional special
offers and get going from there all right let's bring in Jansen Tang who is the co-founder and CEO over at virtuals let's just jump hey how's it going Jackson hi guys good to be here yeah so we are going to dive into a lot obviously the big news is salana and virtuals all getting into one platform now virtuals on salana it's official uh talk to me a little bit about that what was it like uh moving over there we saw and have reported on this pretty extensively but give me an update yeah man no so
um I mean having having the vision to go across chain has always been U the case uh we started first at base and and the idea is that we we accounted a ton of builders that you know it's not just Soul actually there there are folks that are coming from other ecosystems as well and they were asking us like hey when when can we launch on virtuals but on you know maybe another platform other than Bas right I think most of the request came from so so that's why we are we are on sa first
but actually in the next couple of weeks we are rapidly expanding to several other chains think of like PSC hyper liquid um some other more Niche chains like okay you know Saga story abstract right so the idea is there are a lot of Builders they aligned to these ecosystems and we are there we've gotten a lot of support as well from the Sona Foundation um around some of these launches and yeah so we're here uh there are a lot of teams that have been lined up uh to launch in the ecosystem some of them that
you do not even know yet uh so honestly happy to support these teams as well but there are there are I think about like 20 to 30 teams that have been staged across the month uh launching that really been talking to the team vetted and doing some really cool things now I know you guys are are launching the Launchpad and if you look at virtuals in general how is it so different than some of these other AI agent launchpads probably first that's that's from that's from a front runer perspective but I think um we've always
been a very tag first we've actually been pushing the age of like innovation in the space right you think of like the first autonomous transaction that was made by an autonomous agent was done by Luna that was launched on virtuals right the first agent to agent Commerce like agents utilizing each other for their services and paying them with onchain wallets was done within the virtuals ecosystem so these are teams that are launching within virtuals and what's going to come like next um in the next few weeks is actually autonomous businesses so agents that are built
within the The Virtuous ecosystem get to coordinate with each other um that is an open standard that we are that we're going to launch soon and these folks will be the first to actually access these capabilities right and participate in these like very new groundbreaking uh things so I think that has been the culture of of of building in the ecosystem like you are working with a bunch of other insanely smart Builders and this is what you get when you're actually building in virtuals but the second thing that we've built uh very well is the
whole economic portion of the platform the idea is that you know there's a fair launch environment every time there's a transaction um going through these agent tokens that is a fee that's collected and this fee goes back to these agents right so this economic Loop help connect the speculative environment in crypto to fund these cool Innovations that's happening so that's that's an economic um hack right in a sense that has been built into the into the launch pad or into the we talked about this the other day is is the flip of you know going
to where a lot of those fees are going to the agents themselves so that's been a big variation on how virtuals uh has made a big change has that made a big difference do you feel like it's been just like hey this is the direction it's going we see now where this uh could potentially impact the ecosystem especially like these launch pads going forward 100% because I think what we've managed to introduce is a environment where good teams can actually launch without needing to raise much VC fund Capal or in fact cash flow while you're
building in public and some of these cash flows can be quite significant some of the top teams um from a fee perspective they've been getting six figures to even seven figures right from from the from from this trading fees so that is actually sufficient to build a team to build a product um until maybe your first series a right and then maybe a portion of your team stack that you used to own you can then you know do a OTC race for a bigger race later down the line but you know you don't really have
to think about VC rising at the start you focus on the product and you build in public right I think that's the key Innovation I was looking at this tweet came in uh you guys of course have been meeting with x uh a lot happening here are you ready I guess first of all how is uh Twitter X addressing what you guys are doing when will we start to see a lot more integration or will we for context to people I think a lot of these autonomous agents have been utilizing act for two reasons one
it is a platform that is very native for for natural language or Texs to actually occur on right and it becomes that social layer for agents to interact with humans so and the second thing is you know when when these interactions happen on X um there's a chance for it to go viral and that's how the mind share and the and the adoption behind some of these autonomous agents grow right and so it becomes a very critical infrastructure piece but the biggest problem statement was that to utilize X well you need to call the official
API and the official API one is quite expensive uh but two there's rate limitations to it and three is that you know X is these sometimes this bot detection mechanism and some agents tend to fall within their bot detection algorithm and they get banned right and then outright like you know the agent they been working on for for months it's like oh we can't yeah it can't speak onore meaning yeah pretty much gets cut off from communication with the world right so that's so that's the biggest problem statement that we' seen uh so we've been
speaking to X on figuring figuring out two things right one it's how do we get a skilled solution low or no rate limitations in terms of what these agents can do okay um and number two policies to be in place that we can help X um and force within the ecosystem so then we have a direct line to them saying that okay you know if these agents get banned we can justify that no these are actually not Bots these are productive agents that's going to actually help the platform there's a that's direct link to actually
help unban or help teams understand what policies to follow so they don't get banned right so I think that's the that's the key value add but the third thing that's actually happening as well it's along the lines of Innovations so I can't really release much information here but there's been a active us back and forth trying to figure out like you know what's the next cool thing that agent can be doing with X and potentially being integrated within the X platform that would be interesting okay yeah that's that's there a few thinking along the lines
of of private DMS along the lines of payment RS as well so right you guys will see that come out yeah it's it's definitely yeah it's definitely uh a trending potential there for it so it's it's great to see that how you guys are kind of connecting up with them the I think the Elephant Room here why have we not seen virtuals launch on coinbase yet you've got virtuals now launching on Kraken over here you can get this on uphold uh of course many of our people Deens of our audience are out there hey dude
why is this not on on coinbase yet so what's up yeah okay so just want to put a caveat right I know I know a lot of people give Jesse a lot of hit uh the base teamot J the base lead yeah okay yeah but U I just put out there that they have been massively supportive of what we've been doing um from day from day one it's just that I think coinbase itself has a separate team that does uh listings and Analysis on on on on listings as well we we are actually in touch
with that Team U but sometimes you know it takes b a bit of back and forth to to to get some of the king sorted because different different exchanges have different requirements some a bit more stringent than the rest it could be around the business model could be terminologies in in in the white paper and stuff like that right so there's some there's ongoing discussions but yeah um I don't know man like this this should be speed to Market I mean we are talking about you know literally breaking things in crypto right now with virtual
what you guys are doing but also just AI agents in general what about the AI agents that are on base right now what happens to them as you guys make this transition you're moving to salana what happens yeah so I think I think the word here is expanding right uh we're not moving to salana there there are still great teams that be launching on base great teams launching on salana and great teams launching on other change that we're going to go into right I think the the beauty about Bas is that there are still a
ton of Builders who are Bas aligned u b have built a culture of like you know um like hardcore hardcore Builders coming together they have a ton of uh boot camps themselves and a community of Buist that are very uh they have a culture of their own right I think sa has a culture of their own so first of all I think that's that's very important to note that it's not a move it's expansion and there are a lot of cool things happening on Bas itself and Bas in itself has been fighting for a lot
of TV and volume so there is still a lot of activity there yeah sure um all right so I want to I want to play a clip for you this is uh Tracy um and and for those of you who don't know what it is you you'll see here in a second but I have some questions about this that I want to ask you so let's go to that clip revolutionizing Sports commentary and analytics Tracy is your AI commentator for all sports with deep basketball expertise analytical feedback and an unparalleled fan engagement experience Tracy also
helps Pro players analyze and improve their game with Precision insights Tracy AI coming soon when you look at this and you wonder kind of the evolution of where this is going you look at Poly Trader probably will become more and more integrated into sports do you see AIS starting to analyze for poly Trader integration or things like whatever it might be some of these predictive markets what are your thoughts no 100% I think first of all I think one thing that we've been seeing in the past two months from a launch perspective is a lot
of the tra the agents that are being built within the virous ecosystem or outsite has been very focused on trading right I mean it's not wrong because it's pretty much what you know a lot of web tree use cases are about but I think for us to achieve this vision of building towards this agentic Society Network state right we need we need the diversity of high quality agents across a spectrum of use cases and there's a ton of use cases with a large target market that is outside of crypto that's targeting all these web to
users right so Sports commentary sports betting is one of them a lot of people enjoy reading a bit more about you know the technicalities of the spot like why this team is winning right or will this team win or will this player perform well right and the beauty about agents today is they have this access to this repository of information that's public but also a repository of information that's private right there are information where teams and coaches are using to train their teams that normal normal public people do not have access right but some of
these agents and their agent developers have access to so IE this is a smarter agent that can be your sounding board for sports analytics when you have more information about a team or a player or an outcome the agent itself could encourage you to play a bat right saying like oh you know this game potentially this this team has like a 75 75% chance of winning because X Y and Z you know there a three to one odd here on you know sports bet. iio or 6.com or po it's definitely going to level up people
for sure corre and and but it becomes also this companion right it becomes a person that you an agent that you can always talk to and because it's the person always talk to behind analytics it is the easiest place for you to place a bat so this becomes a dist Major Distribution channel for batting right and if this agent need to take a small percentage of the of their flow you become a massive Cash Cow so these are like businesses that have a ton of fundamental promise behind them and this is one sector right and
sports itself like basketball is there's a ton of other spots to be buil and a ton of other to be I'm looking at your virtuals uh the white the white paper here of course you look at game the framework um how is this improving over time what do you see on kind of the The Horizon here yeah so for context to folks uh gme the framework is pretty much an autonomous Asian framework it allows people to create agents that are a higher level where they are not human prompted but they're goal driven so all you
do is you give it a goal and then by looking at its action space its environment it does things to achieve that goal so that's basically what the framework is all about from a capability standpoint I think JY has improved tremendously between even last over the last few weeks you can select what's the underlying uh model that you want to power this autonomous agent it could be like a deeps R1 okay a deeps llama um 70b right so you have this variety of models you can use which gives the agent better upgrades in terms of
reasoning capability so that's one and two you know we're working with a lot of folks now to build out these commodity action spaces action spaces that allows the agents Baseline capability to be much higher so like it can any agent today can trade on chain can can can influence other agents can let's say call a defi pool can even interact with some consumer apps right so that's a baseline capability go up so there the two things that happening and the third thing is then integrating these capabilities into games and other applications think of applications like
Tik Tok um Instagram right so sure so these are the goals so from a integration perspective we are still working um today X has a skilled solution we're trying to work a skilled solution with Instagram and Tik Tok as well probably the next two months you'll see a solution for that um for the gaming side of things like you mentioned it's actually there the tag is already there specifically Westworld on Roblox you know the launch for that actually we so Westworld is developed internally by the team uh so we actually do not have the capacity
to maintain a platform like that so all our Tech Engineers have been pushed towards the the platform front and uh and building up the the multi-agent coordination tech tech so we've actually created a new JV AR um with a team called sof run that have been building doing web gaming for a while and uh they have been they are now in charge of implementing uh Gaming use cases with gaming Partners so I think the first few implementations are with Nifty Island um there's a okay team on Roblox um and some other web tree titles as
well so the first I think the first demo will come out like pixels pixels and some of the other running uh Team so there have been some Integrations happening you will see the first row out of these MVP games probably in like two to three weeks but a very Baseline one I think you start getting like a full playable experience in like two months from now I think from timeline perspective we so we had uh yatsu on from Anoka Brands the other day uh we we were kind of pressing him on when he thought uh
we'd start to see AI agents and he he timed this uniquely to the GT uh the GTA6 launch which coming possibly this fall so I mean what's that going to look like could we see that potentially or would you be ready for mods in there yeah honestly honestly it makes sense once they open the apis right in fact when we were when we were testing our agentic framework in Roblox back then there was actually one angle to test it in the GTA5 okay all right we actually wanted to do that initially so but we stuck
with Roblox so it's actually doable the mods will come and I think as you mentioned it' be very interesting like because it would be probably the most hyped game right and then it's a it be the number one that could be well that's what yatsu was getting at is this could be the culture shift that would onboard crypto obviously the potential there for um AI agents within that I'm I'm kind of curious then would the game token holders benefit from this kind of you know because this is somewhat of a a vetted out strategy that
you guys are going on or would it be more of the you know I guess versus virtual you know if you look at virtual the token versus game the token so what I've mentioned right which is the standard for coordination between agents will actually benefit virtuals more because virtuals is that currency of commerce between these agents when the agent Co another agent and they pay for services they're paying in terms of virtuals so that will benefit virtuals more but the reason why we think gme will also benefit a lot is that by if we analyze
a lot of the other Frameworks on the market right A lot of them are still reactive Frameworks like the the the agents are not going driven but they still human prompted for some form of reaction so they are reactive not proactive right think of it as like imagine a world a gaming world right where your NPCs will only do something if a human walks up to them and talk to them right right it will be a very static world because NPCs will still stay there you know at their own location not doing anything until prompted
but a gold driven level three agent will live their own life they will be like oh okay I have a goal I will do my own things and then when a human comes in he's interjecting or interrupting that that flow right and I think gme is probably today still one of the very rare Frameworks out there um that that allows for this proactiveness I would agree when sure yeah when the time comes for these autonomous businesses and there's a lot of excitement around how can specialized agents coordinate well we start people will start realizing that
okay for me for my agent to participate in these bigger economy right um they will need this capability and they will be able to access this capability if they use gme as a framework and when they use J as a framework it will benefit JY a lot because the way it works in the ecosystem is that any kind of inference charges that agents would use when they use gme gets autod deducted from their agent wallets so there actually a revenue stream for J when is adoption the more people that uses autonomous agent capability the larger
the revenue drivers or the inference counts of G for sure for gme Solana's number one feature I would say s I would say s is the Seeker you know the benefit of what Salon mobile has been able to do uh we've seen a whole ecosystem start to do things like aird drops Etc and then now what we're talking about is even real Athena which is essentially integrating into the phone the likelihood of getting an AI agent into a web 3 device now especially that you're I mean come on you you got to be best buds
with toally let's get something going here yeah I know 100% in fact actually there's um there's some some builders in the ecosystem that have been working on what you call personalized agents so today these agents that we see today are individual discret agents that that think of it as they're like micro entrepreneurs right they have some form of service they're selling their services to people but what we'll see is the rise of agents that are trained on personal data personal preferences in some form of privacy enabled way and these agents pretty much understands every single
desire and intention that you have because it reads everything it reads your emails it knows how you it knows what you what you see on Tik Tok it knows it knows theog search yeah it becomes the Alfred right it becomes a person assistant so I think that is something that is going to happen um and the beauty about this is it's going to tap into it's going to create a whole new advertising Market because basically you might start seeing that okay advertisers might say let's advertise to these agents rather than advertising to a human because
there's more intent focus and there's the conversion will be likely better because this agent knows exactly what you want the the cost per click or cost per intent it's way higher so the advertisers will be will to pay a much higher price so that's going to be unlock a whole new like advertising um environment that advertising to agents and agents representing humans right it's going to be crazy advertising to agents that's going to be that's going to be nuts speaking of that we got to look at Luna uh she's now cranking up to over a
million followers on Tik Tok and if Tik Tok goes blockchain if we get a blockchain potential integration whether it's polka dot or others um that could potentially go this direction would virtuals be ready for something like that a major move of a major social platform blockchain oriented 100% I think in fact it's massively beneficial something that we've been begin to act as well it's the same thinking like we ideally want every Social account to have a native wallet yes because today is very hacky right how an agent coordinate with another agent is that we put
the wallet in the bio of the Twitter account it's such a hacky way but ideally if every account has a native wallet integration when the agent wants to pay they just need to call that API the wallet of the account it's much more seamless right and it's much more SC so yeah that's we would love it I think it it would help the entire ecosystem to grow yeah oh for sure no doubt about it I me we've been pushing like crazy to get uh to get one one platform at least into blockchain to where you
start to see some integration there this is another thing when you look at AI Innovation here's Sam Alman he's talking about you know what the fees are going to be for something like a Chad gbt Etc I mean they're saying throwing out the they're they're actually saying the quiet part out loud which is this is could could go up to like $1,000 a month so you're 20 bucks a month for your little chapy T bro or your perplexed out there guys we're getting ready to get hit with this so my question to you Jensen is
could AI agents possibly virtuals something like that take the place of these interfaces right now which feel very 2.0 already you know they feel like what I mean perplexity though it's available on the iPhone or the Android it still feels very clunky as opposed to an agent interface why couldn't agents become the true interface versus these are really just engines on the back side agree and I think one of the key breakthroughs that we've shown in the last two months is that agents just appearing on X was a very clear I would say adoption role
right because now it's so much easier to talk to these agents right talking to them on telegram talking them to a talking to them on on on social media it's it's more seamless and talking through a terminal right I think that's it gets more personable it gets more it gets easier and you get you get access the same functions if not more right to these to these agents so yeah it will be the evolution of interfacing but what these what these platforms do is that they are the backbone right they're like their foundational brain so
it's like a value chain right like you have all these different models and LMS that power the agents and then the agents are the ones that leave at the consumer surface area right it's listen this exciting because I think we're g to just see so much change I mean if you look at the speed in which all this has happened I was watching just game on virtuals right here you can kind of see it this is basically where an AI agent would no longer have to hire artist meme artist to go out and generate context
for what would be interfacing on these social platforms so another tool that's going to continue to integrate into this I mean are meme artists kind of that game is over now no so I think I think um it it's going to be very interesting because you know there's this whole big question of what is a act commodity space and what is a going to be a specialized action space so like what you saw just now right like flux is is a strong image generation platform that could be an action space for every agent so it's
a commodity action spaces right any agent can just pay like a dollar to access that so it's great but there is also think of it some teams that might be focusing on highly specialized very Niche capabilities and they fine tune that let's say flux with like meme generation so it's like insanely good from like a meme generation it allows you know like the text blocks to come out very clearly in a very mematic style and sometimes it takes it takes more than just a simple Laura to do that it takes time to actually find tune
um that model well right so that could become an AG for still some agents that could be an agent that is just purely trained on memes and it could be a meme image generation specialized agent that can do these images is better than a commodity function so most agents would naturally okay I canate a photo but if I want to generate a insane meme photo I will still need to call another agent that is actually being able to do that more of the specialized feature the bar the bar of creating an H is going to
be higher and higher right so like what exactly can be an age that an agent cannot create itself or okay right it will be higher and higher but this basic point but I think the reality is there will still be some human developers that are able to craft out some form of Niche and capable okay generic agent might not right it's going to be very interesting yeah so so the bar will keep cropping High I point yeah maybe it it would just be like yeah you know what a human can never create an age anymore
and then the agents pretty much I'm just I'm telling you the the speed in which all this is advancing is very intriguing listen i' you know I got to grow up in building the internet in my era working with Microsoft so I've seen speed but I've never seen speed like this this is a speed that I don't think anybody has really understood except some of the guys that are in Silicon Valley today understanding uh product Market fit scale to Market because crypto has really enabled all of this to happen so quickly you know where you
used to have to have a blue team working with a lot of Insider VCS to be able to get funded just to get those early stages done I mean that's the problem that I think you guys have solved with being able to do this so Kudos on you listen we want to get you back on the show regularly so I think there's just so much here to talk about of where this is going especially in crypto so we'd love to have you on again but uh thanks for coming in today we appreciate it yeah we
love to jam again dude always a pleasure man awesome thank you Jensen appreciate it all right you guys if you're not in the diamond Circle get in right now it's a great place to get additional content also we have our own telegram group we leave a link down below get in on that I chat in and out of there we're constantly dropping memes and all sorts of craziness over there that's uh pretty fun if you're not if you're brand new to crypto then I would say don't do that stay in the diamond Circle but if
you are somewhat of an OG in crypto get in on the telegram group it's worth it and follow me out there on X Paul Baron we'll catch you next time right here on Tech paath [Music]
