CONSCIOUSNESS AND PERSONALITY. From the Inevitably Dead to the Eternally Alive

ALIVE CONVERSATION FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE CONSCIOUSNESS & PERSONALITY “In the world, they teach us only intellect, memory, and knowledge that comes from logic. Whereas when cognizing the Truth, one should master an elevated stage of self-perfection, awareness, and understanding of those deepest feelings that emanate from the Soul. After all, spiritual experience lies beyond the boundaries of the mind…” From the book AllatRa Tatiana: Hello, dear friends! The living conditions of society and civilization have been changing throughout life. But only one thing stays unchanged — the human being, his inner duality, and the question

of the true meaning of his existence here. At all times, this very meaning of life has been and remains the Spiritual liberation, which has been achieved through the practical experience of exploring yourself, your true nature, as well as by means of self-perfection in various spiritual practices. The topic of our video today is “Consciousness and Personality. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive”. CONSCIOUSNESS & PERSONALITY FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE PROPHETS INCULTURATION IMAGE & LIKENESS MAGIC & REINCARNATION A HUMAN WAS CREATED TWICE AUTOGENIC TRAINING MEDITATION SPIRITUAL PRACTICE WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT SEE?!

WHAT ARE THE SYSTEM AND CONSCIOUSNESS?! PERSONALITY & SPIRIT HOW TO BECOME FREE PHYSICS OF THE SUPERNATURAL THE UNKNOWN SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE REAL LIFE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS OF THOSE WHO PRACTISE TRUTH THAT EXPOSES THE SYSTEM AND CHANGES YOU FOREVER! IN THE VIDEO: CONSCIOUSNESS AND PERSONALITY. FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE Today, my interlocutors are Igor Mikhailovich Danilov, Zhanna, Volodya, and Andrey. Igor Mikhailovich, after watching the series of videos "The Truth is One for Everyone" with your direct participation, people from different countries of the world sent amazing feedback. These responses are diverse, but what’s important is

that many people who watched, especially the previous video, felt for the first time in their life your spiritually filled silence at a completely new level of spiritual perception. Many of them felt what the deepest feelings are, that boundless spiritual, a part of which is in themselves. This is an integral part which should predominate in all people. This is a natural state for normal people. T: They have discovered it within themselves, this deepest understanding of the essence without words, which is strikingly different from the usual thinking and work of consciousness. IM: So, not all is lost.

And it is joyful that many people noted that the most important dialogue really didn’t take place in words, but at the level of the deepest feelings. After the conversation, they compared what was happening to a sort of discovery of the source or to the ocean of immeasurable joy… IM: And it is interesting that many people often asked me about the universal language or a proto-language. But in the previous video, we were understood by people who are absolutely unfamiliar with the language we speak. I mean verbally. Such an interesting point: people, after watching the videos, were

imbued with the deep meaning of their religion, its foundations, the importance of that spiritual Knowledge which was conveyed through its Prophets. And in the spiritual, they found that initial supporting step which the understanding of the foundations of their religions and beliefs begins with… I would like to read a few letters on this subject. Bismillahi rrahmani rrahim [In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful]. JazakumuLlahu Hayran [May Allah bless you]. The topic is very relevant for today. The video had a very strong impact. It has a deep meaning for understanding my religion, my

path. It is conveyed through the fruit of honesty. In one of the Hadiths, the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, according to the words of al-Hassan ibn Ali, The Messenger of Allah peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: "Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt. Verily, truth is tranquility and falsehood is doubt." BarakAllahu fikum (blessings of Allah be upon you)." And here’s the second letter, which came from quite a different part of the earth: "I am a Christian. I was reading the Bible and

trying to imagine where this invisible heaven of God is, this spiritual reality, not the material one. How to get there? What did the first intention, The first step of the true path of the holy fathers begin with? My understanding from the mind was vague and uncertain. And only today, thanks to this extraordinary video, I understood the depth and simplicity of the feeling of God's grace without any words. Indeed, as the Bible says, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, is what God has prepared for those who love him.”

Now, when listening to the sermon in Church and reading the Bible, I began to understand the depth and truth of the Teaching of Christ, which the Church gave us. I realised what "The Kingdom of God is within you" means. I understood the words of Jesus Christ when He answered: "My kingdom is not of this world." T: Igor Mikhailovich, these and other letters highlighted the key point: where the practical understanding of the knowledge of any spiritual path leading to God should ideally start — from the practical contact with one’s deepest feelings. Today, many people's attitude towards

their religions is habitual and indifferent, simply as towards a tradition. In today’s society, a person doesn’t understand himself and the importance of living by the Spiritual World. At best, people try to study their religion, but on the basis of ideas of their consciousness… IM: Right here, there is a little "but": the study of religion is one thing, but the path to God is another. All religions are good, we have already talked about this more than once; there are no bad religions, and they all lead to God. But the question is what a person wants, what

he chooses. Many people like to simply participate in religion as a theatrical performance, just to be a participant. While many others strive for God. And the difference here is significant. If people get involved in some kind of religion So that neighbours don't frown upon them, this is one thing. But if they get involved in religion in order to come to God through it, it's completely different. And here it must be said that all religions are united by one meaning, and the meaning is simple — it is the path to God. T: Igor Mikhailovich! In the

videos, you have said that any religion contains grains of knowledge, and in order to follow the path leading to God, one should at least understand in practice that there is a different perception — perception through the deepest feelings. Igor Mikhailovich, there are about 300 religions in the world. And everyone in his religion says that it is his path to God that is the only correct and true one. People say that from the mind. It’s exactly said by those who, like a bad guide, lead people into a swamp, from which they won’t get anywhere. But true

people who came to know this path themselves, who follow it, will never say so. In all true religions — not those which people have invented artificially, but really true ones — everyone who has reached this path, they understand that in all religions there’s one grain — it is the path to God. While all the rest is culture, it is heritage, and many other attributes acceptable to certain peoples, nothing more. In fact, all of this is one path. Igor Mikhailovich, why is the path to God actually divided into so many religions? IM: Consciousness always divides, it

cannot do otherwise: the struggle for power, the struggle for domination over someone. This is matter, these are the laws of matter, that's the point: divide and conquer, that is why people divide. But those who reach understanding, those, on the contrary, strive to unite. Igor Mikhailovich, and what did the Prophets face when they came to this world? The same thing they are facing now: People and their consciousness. IM: Nothing changes… at least in the methods by which the system influences people through their consciousness. What did the Prophets face? First of all, an incomprehension by people who

demanded from them magic and all sorts of miracles in this world to confirm that they are Prophets. Distrust, discontent, mockery, all kinds of insults, all the way to open confrontation — that’s what the Prophets had to endure not only from those in power, but also from ordinary people. Consciousness doesn’t differentiate by who is in power and who is not. It attunes everyone to one wave of the Animal mind, first of all, to the consumerist wave. And when a Prophet comes, for the system it’s a real threat, therefore it begins to resist in every possible way

through all of its slaves. And slaves are not only those in power. There are many good people among those in power, too. But, unfortunately, among the so-called "ordinary people", there are a lot of slaves of the system as well. In fact, all of this exposes the face of the Animal mind system, the way it works. The Animal mind system doesn’t know and doesn’t understand what the Spiritual World Is, this is in the first place, that’s why it opposes it in every possible way. And for it, the Prophets are a threat to its total power over

human Personality. That’s why it acts through people's consciousness, through pridefulness imposed on their Personality by such methods, making them aggressive and causing fear in them. And fear leads to direct confrontation. Here again, fear… It would be interesting to note why a person is afraid of a Prophet or a Spiritual Being? After all, he’s not in any danger. These are peace-loving beings. When faced with a Prophet or an Enlightened one (some spiritual person), People experience genuine fear and anxiety near these beings because consciousness is experiencing it, because this threatens the system. And consciousness activates its influence

on Personality precisely in the negative vein; it tries to drive them into a stall this way. Through consciousness, through pridefulness, aggression and fear, precisely with the hands of people themselves as its slaves, it tries to counteract any spiritual manifestations. In the first place, to counteract what gives people real freedom from the shackles of the system. T: Indeed, when you read the story of Prophets' lives, you understand that Absolutely nothing changes in these issues of the system's counteraction to spiritual surges in the material world. IM: Absolutely right. Let’s take, for instance, Prophet Muhammad. In his activity,

he encountered such manifestations many times, which the system activated through consciousness of the people around him, sometimes the closest people. This was reflected in various aggressive manifestations and discontent. A simple example. The powerful ones who ruled in Mecca, what did they demand of him? First of all, they demanded of him a direct proof that he was a Prophet, Such as "move a mountain, turn rivers back." Everything as always: manifest God's will here, in three-dimensionality, "change or do something, prove to us that you are a Prophet." It’s natural that people require miracles from the Prophets… T:

…because it is consciousness that rules over people and requires magic and endless miracles for itself. IM: Yes, no matter how many miracles you show people, they will still doubt. They will question any miracle that a Prophet would show. This is really so. Because the demand for miracles comes, Speaking the language of Islam, from iblis, from shaitan, that is, from the devil. T: …after all, it is pridefulness and arrogance that caused the fall of iblis. IM: Yes, in the Qur'an, in Surah fifteen, such a moment is described when Allah the Almighty told iblis that he has

power only over the misguided ones who follow him. All of them, in the future life, are doomed to hellish tormenting punishment with fierce blazing fire. Again, what does it mean — fierce blazing fire that befalls a person after death? In modern terms, it’s a state of subpersonality. T: So, even today in the holy scriptures, Despite their numerous translations, grains of knowledge have still been preserved… Very good words… IM: But they are good only for those who understand their essence. Here again, I will digress a little… How does a person interpret all this? With consciousness, he

perceives it as a fairy tale, no more and no less. Only the one who has gained experience understands that it’s not a fairy tale, but the truth. That's the trouble. T: As the saying goes, "No one is a prophet in their own land." IM: Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honour except in his own town, Among his relatives and in his own home.” This is really so. Here’s a simple understanding. There was a man or a group of people who knew you. You grew up together. And then a revelation comes to you

or descends upon you, and you become a Prophet. And what is a Prophet? A Prophet is the herald of God, he is the one who conveys the Truth sent from God. But people knew you, they grew up next to you. What will affect them in the first place? Will they listen to what you say? They won’t. They will look at you and think: "How is that? He or she grew up with me, and now he or she speaks about God." Isn’t it so? Envy. And what will it evoke in them? Hatred. Hatred that will be

evoked in them, first of all, by their pridefulness. Because it wasn’t upon them that the revelation descended, but upon you. So, no one is a prophet in their own land. I would put it this way: no one is a prophet in this world for those who live by this world. T: And how did the system react to the appearance of Jesus Christ in the world? In the same way — with aggression, starting from condemnation by the ruling priesthood and ending with persecution, their hatred towards everything sacred. And what did people ask of Jesus, having such

a unique opportunity to ask for the Eternal? Again magic… IM: Yes, something similar happened to Jesus. People asked Him for those same material benefits for themselves, health in the first place. And in general, it must be said that not only to Jesus… It’s an established opinion That if a person is spiritually enlightened, then he must be perfectly healthy, happy, rich in this three-dimensionality, and so on. And the concept of happiness, unfortunately, in the human understanding, is not unity with the Spiritual World and not true Life in true Freedom from three-dimensionality. The understanding of happiness for

people is health, wealth, and power. First and foremost — power, secret power. It's not just that you were elected a leader or something, but secret power Where you can secretly dictate to these leaders, and they fulfil "your will". But is it really yours? That’s the question. T: Health, wealth, power, that is, all the attributes of consciousness in this three-dimensionality — all that is perishable and frail, all that is mortal and temporary. IM: Yes, it turns out that all the material attributes of the system are imposed on people's consciousness. Why do many people seek to learn

the so-called "spiritual knowledge" in quotation marks? In fact, they seek to learn magic, To possess some kind of hidden Divine force that will allow them to have power over other people… in three-dimensionality. But this directly contradicts the Spiritual World. In the Spiritual World, the concept of power doesn’t exist. There, it is precisely freedom from all these three-dimensional problems. Why? Because there is no evil there, no grief there, no envy. There is happiness and freedom there. It's hard for people to understand this, being enslaved by consciousness, because for a person who lives by the laws of

this three-dimensional world, the real freedom is when he can do what he wants. For him, the real power is when he can secretly influence someone. Meaning, magic, just ordinary magic. When people are afraid of him, when he is respected, when he is rich and independent. And he doesn’t care that it lasts a very short period of time. Why? Because consciousness tells him, "After all, you've achieved everything." Or, most often, consciousness says, "You will study, you will learn this secret knowledge, magic, and you will possess it." But, as a rule, it doesn’t give this knowledge to

people, it only promises it to them. Although the system gives many of its adherents Both the earthly power and wealth, even health to some of them… But it takes more later. T: In those times, as well as nowadays, wealth was and remains a source of pridefulness in the world of people. Apparently, that is why people who were in the grip of consciousness didn’t understand why the Prophet lived and didn’t ask for any earthly benefits from God for himself. IM: This misunderstanding caused and still causes even more aggression and alienation in people, why do Prophets not

ask God for any earthly benefits for themselves, first of all? And this raises doubts in their consciousness: "If you are a Prophet, if you have, speaking the earthly language, a connection with God and can ask Him for anything you want, then why don’t you ask, first of all, for yourself? How can you give to someone if you do not take for yourself?" There is just an incomprehension by people because the Prophet doesn’t give anything to anyone. He merely brings Knowledge. People themselves take what they want. If they want to serve God — they serve God.

They serve God for the sake of gaining something greater and that which doesn’t end. Yet, when they begin, while praying to God, to ask, but to ask for earthly things, they don’t pray to God, they pray to satan. After all, you cannot ask Eternity for anything temporary. You cannot ask Life for death, there is no such thing. While any earthly request, material request, no matter how precious it would seem to people… I would like to examine this point… In ordinary human life, people have attachments. There are relatives, family, people who are near and dear to

them. Well, and simply one’s own life. Especially when someone close becomes sick, people want to help, they start praying, asking God to give health to relatives, loved ones, people dear to them. They promise that they will pray to God and so forth. So, there goes negotiation with God. Negotiation about what? About health. After all, they do not ask God for immortality, for salvation of the soul, as they say in religious language, for their relatives and friends. They ask for health. While health is an integral part of material benefits. Whom do they ask? Consciousness. And who

tells them this? Consciousness. And whom do they address in such prayers? The system. The one who owns this material world. The one whom it belongs to. After all, in almost all religions, one way or another, it is said that there is a Prince of this world. Meaning, here, in this three-dimensional world, there is its own Prince who rules this world. And it is he who gives those material benefits to people when they deserve this, that very health, but in exchange, he takes away Life. People don’t understand this. Because many, once again, to the dictation of

consciousness, believe that: "It's better to have thirty years of beautiful life than some kind of Eternity: maybe it exists, maybe not. I’d better live here. And then whatever will be, will be." People simply don't understand that thirty years, or a hundred years, Are just an instant. A person will never get enough of life. And there is never enough health. It all passes. Everything is really simple, and everything has been given. If you want to be healthy — get treatment, look after your health. If you want to be rich — learn, work, and you will be

rich, there is no getting around it. This doesn’t contradict any laws. If you want power — go into politics, gain this power. If you want, you will achieve. The question is in something else: you may not use magic to acquire any kind of earthly benefits. Why? What is magic? Magic is, first of all, the expenditure of vital forces, those forces that are given to you for performing spiritual sacraments, while you use them in your desire and direct them towards acquiring something material. Whatever material you acquire, it is still temporary. That's where the substitution occurs. Well,

what can you do, the system is strong. Nothing changes. People remain people just as they were. Rather, not people, but their consciousness. Since the system is one and the same. It seems that people are different, consciousnesses are different, but the system is one and the same. Let’s take, speaking in modern terms, all kinds of gadgets: phones, tablets, laptops. They are different, but they have almost the same programs, and when they connect to the Internet, they connect to the same Internet and get the same information. Well, it’s something like that… With consciousnesses, with the system. But

it is very important for the operator to understand which programs he may activate and which ones he shouldn’t, and what he will pay for it. T: So many Prophets came, and essentially, they all talked about the same Knowledge, about the path to the Spiritual World, what to overcome in oneself, about duality, about the system, and that the Prince of this world acts through consciousness of people themselves. IM: And, in the first place, they said that you should learn not to trust your consciousness, That you shouldn't think about this, shouldn’t hold on to pictures and the

like. The Prophets really talked about this a lot. But what is the human's trouble? It is that human consciousness doesn’t actually need Prophets and doesn’t need Knowledge. Or, if we summarize, people do not need Prophets, they need genies that fulfil their wishes. But here it would be more correct to say: not people, but human consciousness. What is a human being? A human being is, first of all, a Personality, That is, the one who is not controlled by consciousness, but who controls his consciousness. Yet, if a person is unable to control his emotions, his consciousness, he

is under the power of satan. And, naturally, in that case, this person, first of all, gathers stones. What for? To meet the Prophet with stones… T: …with stones of doubt, pridefulness, the system's envy… That's what the Prophets faced… even from close ones, from brothers… A stereotypical phrase from consciousness to any surge from the Spiritual, "No matter how much you prove it to me, I still won’t believe you." IM: And who spoke with the lips of this brother? It was exactly satan speaking, that is, consciousness: "No matter how much you prove it to me, I will

not accept it." Why? Because consciousness hates the world of God. And here lies the first, the very first reason why human consciousness rejects everything Divine? Because human consciousness is mortal. It's like your old computer, It's not eternal, you will eventually change it. T: Igor Mikhailovich, it turns out, while the Prophet was living, the Knowledge that he brought to the world, essentially, was alive, not distorted, one can say, thanks to his… well… authority… IM: No. It just wasn’t distorted as quickly, but it was distorted during his life. Again, if we take Muhammad, we talked about this,

and anyone can familiarize themselves: distortion of what he was saying began during his lifetime, and several people already appeared Who began to distort Islam during the life of Muhammad himself. And if we take Jesus, what kind of substitutions and changes took place in his lifetime? But the Prophets could tell people the Truth, they were here, in this world, and could at least defend it all a little. And why go far, why look at the great Prophets? Let's just take the book AllatRa and see what is happening now. After all, how many people have appeared now,

who interpret it from the mind, simply in their own way. And what do they interpret this for? For their own benefit, to gain what? Power over their own kind. They form some kind of closed groups. They say that they are some sort of authority figures in the ALLATRA Movement or something else, they are the leaders of ALLATRA and all kinds of things. And people believe them. A person has read the book, understood something, wants to learn more, and at this point, authority figures turn up, who sometimes didn’t even read this book AllatRa, and the game

begins. This happens in present-day life, when a person can take it, Read it himself, study it, and start working. After all, this is what is written and told about. This is absolutely not difficult. Well, he wants to talk to a person. And again, how many times people were told, how much was said that if you are looking for the spiritual path, then seek the spiritual path. But what do people need? Health, a solution to their problems, and to know what will happen tomorrow. Well, nothing has changed. T: And what should people do to ensure that

the same thing which happened to the Knowledge in those days doesn't happen to AllatRa? IM: Well, it’s human choice: what they will choose is what will happen. Nothing will stop those who aspire to Life. While those who seek to serve the system, well, can you really save the dead from death? Zh: Now we see not only bad examples, but also many good ones: both in the Movement and among those people who are waking up. There are many more of them. And this brings more joy — that people hear, that people feel… IM: And here’s the

key point — this brings more joy. This brings joy. That's exactly what it is for. T: That means, they multiply spiritual joy inside themselves, by working on themselves, by their actions and deeds. IM: Right, they defend the positions of the Spiritual World in the material world, thereby they bring joy. And joy is like a light in the darkness. And the more such lights ignite, the more darkness recedes, the more joy there is. You see how simple everything is. Zh: Simple, very simple. T: Like light and darkness… Because through the darkness of consciousness, a denial of

everything Holy occurs, first and foremost, a denial of everything Holy in oneself as Personality. Yet, what can the dead beget? The dead exactly begets the dead. IM: While the Alive exactly begets only the Alive. It begets this inner spiritual Love. And this is very important. Zh: It is very important… It is very important to find this Source in yourself Because it generates the boundlessness of inner Life. It reveals the inexhaustible Source of happiness and joy. It is boundless and infinite. And it gives Life to those who accept it through the deepest feeling. It gives Life

to those who have already made their choice and live by it every day. IM: In the Bible, in the Gospel of John, there is a moment when Jesus asked a woman for a drink of earthly water. "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life." These are profound words. Again, they can only be understood with an open heart, as they say in religion. But if you approach

it with the help of consciousness, it is completely impossible to understand. Again, we are reducing all this to what? To a fairy tale. So, can you trust a Prophet? By means of consciousness — you cannot, by means of Spirit — you can. Personality doesn’t need a confirmation, it knows who the Prophet is, because it feels this and reaches out. But consciousness gets in the way of Personality that reaches out for the Prophet. Why? Again, because of pridefulness and power. And it begins to tell Personality, "Do not believe, chase away, take a stone and throw it

at him, because he’s the same as you, he is made of flesh, and you are made of flesh. While the Spirit cannot be seen. If he were a Prophet, he would give you everything you want, Then you would have believed. Whereas, if he doesn’t give it to you, but only tells you about things that you don’t know, how can you believe him?" And consciousness always convincingly persuades Personality that this is not so. "And what you feel," it says, "is a mistake, it’s your hope. God is the one who gives you everything you ask for. He’s

like a parent." And really, try to argue against that. "When you ask your parents for water, will they give you, well, let's say, instead of water… a burning-hot lead? Of course not, these are parents. They love you. When you ask for food, will they give you stones? Of course not, these are parents, they will give you bread or what you ask for, so that you satiate your flesh. The same with God, you ask him for money — he will give it to you, because he loves you, if it’s the real God." This is how consciousness

reasons. But the truth is that for the Spiritual World, the earthly, human time of staying here is the time of non-existence, Where a person chooses: to Live or to die, to be seduced or to become free. And everything carnal that comes from iblis or the devil, as they say, or from consciousness, it might be said from the Universal mind for atheists, to make them happy, all the coming material desires that are dictated by consciousness are temporary and don’t bring anything with them. Even the desire to get to know God which comes from consciousness is always

perverted, and it always makes a secret out of it. And they say, "How can you reach God, meaning, the Spiritual World? No matter how much you think about it, He will not come. And if you want to get to know and learn something — go, learn, and do it. You want to build a house, study how to build it, go ahead and build it. You can build a house. But can you, human, build the Spiritual World for yourself? You cannot. Why? Because you don’t know it, and since you don’t know it, it doesn’t exist." That's

how Personality falls into dependence and slavery by simple persuasions And seemingly logical explanations coming from its own consciousness. But that's where you should stop and think. If you are your own master, then why do you let such thoughts approach your Personality? Why do you waste the power, given to you by the Spirit for Life and Salvation, on listening to fairy tales? Why do you crave evil, and why do you do evil in this world? If you want to Live, then why do you strive for death? This is worth thinking about. NO ONE IS A PROPHET

IN THEIR OWN LAND PEOPLE DO NOT NEED PROPHETS, THEY NEED GENIES THAT FULFIL THEIR WISHES IF YOU WANT TO LIVE, WHY DO YOU STRIVE FOR DEATH? …Who opposes? Consciousness opposes. We have already discussed that consciousness always opposes everything that is connected with the other world, meaning, with the Divine World. Why? Because the way there is closed to consciousness, and this is scary for it, that's why such problems arise. So, during the life of the Prophet, He wasn’t always understood. He was understood by those who aspired to God. While those who lived by the laws of

matter, those who aspired to power, simply used his Teaching in order to create, let's say, their own trends and certain manipulative schools. These are people who direct the power of their attention not where they should and live according to the laws of consciousness. Igor Mikhailovich, in order to start the spiritual path from, perhaps, the first contact with God to living in the Spiritual world, some tools are needed. For some people, these tools are prayer and meditative techniques. And this has been so at all times, from antiquity to modern religions. In that very philosophy, we can

find a lot… That very Plato who was looking in Egypt for some mystical… It's not the path to God that he was looking for. He was looking for means of manipulation… Editor’s note: the light went off in the studio. Well, you see, the light went off. The system is always against the truth being voiced, so it takes some measures. This is basically all of its magic… So, we stopped at Plato. Plato was looking for something other than the path to God, he was looking for means of manipulation — for magic, nothing more. And those people

who are really looking for the path to God? Once again, I return to the point that each religion offers its own tools: meditations, prayers… But this is due to the fact that, again, there are traditions, depending on what was acceptable for whom. Somewhere, they use meditative practices more, somewhere prayer practices. But in fact, everyone is striving to learn Exactly perception through feelings. For instance, prayerful states; we already mentioned in one of the videos that Jesus' Prayer is the achievement of perception through feelings. There are also mantras. It is basically that very prayer, where the same

words are repeated for a long time in order to evoke first an associative, and then a really true deepest feeling. Also, some meditations are aimed at learning to put one's consciousness in order. Later on, they switched to spiritual practices In order to learn the path itself or perception through feelings. All of this is called the spiritual path, that's namely the spiritual path, meaning, when a person is striving… The difference in all these tools is actually significant, but the essence, what these tools are aimed at overall, is one. Although, if we take more ancient schools, everything

used to be simple. FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE What leads to God? Naturally, the path to God is through spiritual practice. But again, what can be called spiritual practice? Well, everything: autogenic training can be called spiritual practice, as well as meditation and prayer — it is spiritual practice, it is work on oneself in getting to know the Spiritual World. Some people progress very easily and quickly. Meaning, they are capable of realizing the very essence of this process and very quickly switch to perception through feelings. But this is… let's say, a bit complicated.

That is, if we take a group, well, one person out of a thousand in the best case scenario. While the rest, if they strive, if they have such a need, will have to take the longer way Which has been tested through millennia — it is autogenic training, meditative practice. But the approach should be serious, as towards a tool. Subsequently, there will already be spiritual practices. The path is not so difficult, and it doesn’t take too much time if you work hard and really strive for it. But there is also a little problem that people don’t

want to do this. Consciousness hinders them. They will not even do autogenic training properly, but they will talk and wish. FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE We talked about the stages for a person who feels an inner need, But cannot cope with his consciousness and the like. What is necessary? From time immemorial, there was a well-working formula: if we talk in modern terms, it is autogenic training, meditation, and spiritual practice. In the past, autogenic training was called differently. In it, there was a lot of fiction made up by people. But thanks to Schultz

who eliminated all the made-up philosophy, all the metaphysics that had previously been attributed to the trite autogenic training… He eliminated it and derived an ordinary formula for self-suggestion, and that's it. Meaning, the work on your body by means of your consciousness. But it was just the first basic step. The second stage is meditative practice. It is when the work with your consciousness takes place; with the help of it, you learn both consciousness and more complex techniques of autogenic training it is precisely the work with chakrans and everything else. These practices boiled down to what? It’s

a more perfected autogenic training, and nothing more. In autogenic training, you work on your body by means of your consciousness. That is, a person learns to apply the power of his attention correctly, Redirect his attention correctly, focusing on a specific area of ​​his body. Thus he cut off or suspended the flow of thoughts in his head. Meaning, he chose only what he needed. Subsequently, in meditative practice, it is more work by consciousness with one's consciousness. Meaning, a person taught his consciousness discipline. And, of course, work with the body at the initial stages. Basically, it’s the

same autogenic training, only the sensing and feeling of energy flows were added, the work of chakrans and the like. By and large, this is autogenic training. This is nothing other than meditative practice. Spiritual practice is purely spiritual practice; consciousness has nothing to do with it, this is perception through feelings. There is a transitional… there are altered states of consciousness. What are the altered states of consciousness? These are forms of consciousness. It’s the same consciousness, but with an altered perception. But still, it’s not the freedom of Personality. So, an altered state of consciousness is simply a

change in frequency, for example… …Autogenic training, meditation, hypnosis, and different things. These are all the tools of consciousness and nothing more. Spiritual practice, for understanding, is beyond the abilities of consciousness. If we speak the language of physics, our consciousness actively works in three-dimensionality. It can cover up to the sixth dimension. It cannot work higher than that. All the highest magic happens exactly at the level of the sixth dimension, when by means of consciousness, by means of suggestions, using additional forces, a person can influence this world or other people. It's not a secret, it's been this

way since time immemorial. But he cannot do this above the sixth dimension because there the influence of the Spiritual World already begins. Spiritual practice is not a disconnection of consciousness. If you disconnect consciousness, you stop perceiving the three-dimensional world. Without consciousness, you will never perceive it. Consciousness is the mediator between Personality and this world. Thanks to consciousness, you communicate, you see, you feel, get upset or enjoy this world — you live in it or exist in it, let's put it this way, everyone chooses different things for themselves. But consciousness is a necessary tool for communication

in three-dimensionality. Therefore, spiritual practice is not a disconnection of consciousness, it is when Personality goes beyond those limits within which consciousness can function. SPIRITUAL PRACTICE IT IS WHEN PERSONALITY GOES BEYOND THOSE LIMITS WITHIN WHICH CONSCIOUSNESS CAN FUNCTION And the third stage is purely spiritual practice when a person already realizes that he is Personality. When a person had already mastered this, he began to finally understand and realize that he is Personality, that he’s becoming the one who can control his consciousness, who can choose thoughts that are offered to him: Weed out some of them and perceive

others. The process became manageable, and then perception through feelings came, meaning, he understood that he is who he is. And he already redirected the power of his attention precisely to perception through feelings of the Spiritual World within himself. Not a search somewhere in the external, but an internal one. Ultimately, this naturally led to the discovery, as they used to say, of great secrets. But who was saying it? Consciousness told people that: "You cannot comprehend because it’s a great mystery… Without a teacher or someone else. You need to meditate for twenty years and only then move

on to spiritual practice." In reality, everything is simple. But again, the realization that a human is Personality and he’s not consciousness, but he is just, as we already discussed, a viewer in the theatre of shadows, it comes gradually. For some people, it’s very fast, but those are very few. While mostly, it happens slowly and in stages, and people often get confused. Consciousness often gets in the way, telling them, "No, it's not so… You will fail." People habitually start listening, and they fail. But those who really strive for God, who really seek to know, they learn

easily and quickly. That is, a person masters spiritual practice already by means of the deepest feelings… Spiritual practice is performed through the deepest feelings, but it’s not performed by means of consciousness. Sceptics and those who like to seek confirmations, I mean, those who are unwilling to explore on their own, but look for confirmations: "Who talked about this?", such citizens can freely look through the life stories of spiritual elders, the people who achieved, and they will see how the elders described Their spiritual experience of getting to know the Spiritual World. What is necessary during the performance

of prayer or meditation? To dismiss any thought and any emotion, whether it is good or bad. It means, everything that comes from the mind is rejected, and you get to know the Spiritual World only through feelings. No matter what anyone says — that’s the only way, because consciousness cannot perceive the Spiritual World. It's like fire and water, these things are obviously incompatible. A great many people surmounted this path. But the consciousness of some viewers may also become outraged now: "What are they sitting and talking about?” and so on. “The holy fathers never did autogenic training,

They didn’t do any meditations. They prayed and learned." Of course, they did. But if we remove all the trumpery, then what remains? A mantra remains. Well, prayer, mantra — repetition of the same thing in order to reach a prayerful state. This prayerful state is precisely perception through feelings. And then, gradually developing it, they came to know the Spiritual World. But I would ask those who argue with us from the other side of the screen: "How many holy fathers have really learned this?" Only a few. But out of those who wrote about this We take and

open the scripture and look at the human word, even if it is written down in signs, it is easy to see who learned what, and who copied from whom in order to achieve significance. But again, why does this happen? Imitation, a desire to seem, but not to be, and so on. But in reality, all religions are based on the same idea. God is one, and everyone goes through this. It’s impossible to come to God in any other way than through yourself, by rejecting consciousness and getting to know God. ny, even the slightest thought during prayer

negates the whole prayer, Doesn't it? It does. Who didn’t talk about this? Only those who didn’t understand it, who kept repeating it with the mind. It is necessary to reach out with the heart. But again, what kind of expression is "to reach out with the heart"? It doesn’t mean… The heart is an organ. It was all a metaphor in fact. Precisely perception through feelings was described, because the heart as an organ was ascribed with the understanding of love, feelings and the like. And God is happiness, God is Love. The Spiritual world is, first and foremost…

The one who understood it during the last video knows what this is. While the rest have to fight with the mind, it's pointless to tell them simply because we won't find words; it’s not because they are unable to perceive it, let them not take offence. No matter how I describe it, it will still be a repetition of the same words; everything will be reduced to the banal: love, happiness, joy, infinity, well… all words that narrow the reality. So, the dialogue of a human, of Personality with God takes place exactly… …by means of perception through feelings.

And spiritual practice is a tool. Prayer and meditation are not the tools of communication, these are the tools for achieving communication. It’s a key, let’s put it this way, to the door behind which there is the Boundless World. You should just learn how to use it, turn it in the right direction, and not be too lazy to open the door. Or even better, remove the door and not close it. Igor Mikhailovich, in order for a person to develop perception through feelings, should he start with autogenic training? A person can start with whatever he wants. Every

religion has its basics and the experience of its sages. But if a modern person really wants and strives, it’s much easier to use commonplace simple things that will really help a person to make it where he aims in the shortest period of time. Igor Mikhailovich, so, autogenic training… What is actually the correct way to do it? Very often, people, when relaxing, say such an affirmation as “I’m not a body. I’m not consciousness. I am Personality. I control the body and consciousness. I am spirit.” People make such mistakes very often. Why? Because in psychology it is

described that you suggest to yourself, “I am brave,” “I’m not afraid”... It is exactly this principle that autogenic training is based upon — it’s banal self-suggestion. Consciousness indeed starts to work already according to this program. But if a person suggests to himself that “I’m not consciousness, I am spirit”, consciousness will adapt and tell him, “You are already spirit, there is nothing else you need, come on… You are already a saint or an angel,” whatever you want, depending on a religion, it will call it accordingly. “What did you want? To know God? Here you go… here

are the images of Him.” And it will show God, it will draw Him in three-dimensionality. And a person will communicate with that God, or whoever else, with bearded saints who will come to him, sit and talk, just like us. Just like that, he will see that and say, “Now, this is meditation! This is great! This is serious!” or “Now, this is autogenic training!” One should become Spirit and not just keep talking about it. ONE SHOULD BECOME SPIRIT AND NOT JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT One should become Spirit and not just keep talking about it. You

shouldn’t work by means of consciousness. Consciousness… You shouldn’t persuade your consciousness, persuade yourself by means of your consciousness, using, again, your consciousness and its directives, because these are exactly the directives from consciousness over Personality. Do you remember we talked about “actors” and the “viewer”? So, when Personality is a “viewer”, and “actors” are exactly consciousness, they split up and say… they tell each other, “You are spirit, you are spirit! You’ve already learnt everything. Look how beautiful it is!”. And then it transforms immediately, like a demon, into any saint or someone else, doesn’t matter who. But what

did true holy fathers say? That whoever appears in front of you in a human image, chase him away because it’s a demon. And many misunderstood, “How come?! It’s a sin, it is… to you personally they’ve appeared…” Never will anyone appear in three-dimensionality. In three-dimensionality, there are people and there are demons. We already talked about “actors” on the stage and those pictures which they demonstrate. What for? Because when they provoke an acute emotion in you, You invest attention in it. And the brighter the picture, the more attention is invested, and this is the funding for the

“actors”. We already talked about this, everything is simple. While here, you have the same “actors” who… A stout, big man acts out, pardon me, a thin blade of grass. He acts out the blade and imposes it on you. But you do see the discrepancy. In the same way, Personality feels such discrepancies and substitutions. And it also wants and aspires, just like you would aspire to go outside and see that very blade of grass instead Of the stout man who imitates it, right? Personality is actually in deep darkness until it gains “spiritual vision and spiritual hearing”

(there is such an expression, and it is nice), when it sees the reality. But until it possesses this, it’s like a child sitting in the auditorium and listening to everything it is told. Nothing more than that. Outside this theatre of the absurd, there is an immense world. The only one who can leave this theatre And come into contact with the Spiritual World is you as a "viewer", meaning, as Personality. When Personality, as a “viewer”, walks out the door, it loses its “actors”. Why would it need clowns when there is the Real? Why look at the

illusion when there is reality? Why cling to the temporary when there is Eternity? IM: In general, in spiritual practices of different religions, special attention is paid to the topic of getting rid of illusory images. That is, in Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism, as well as in more ancient religions, It was emphasized that there mustn't be any images, meaning three-dimensional ones, especially in spiritual practices. Zh: Yes, there is a difference here. Let’s say, when you hear this for the first time, or you read about it, and your consciousness protests, saying, “How is that?! Why mustn't there be

any images?!” And it's an entirely different matter when you know it already in practice, when you already have your personal understanding in the form of experience why it happens exactly this way. T: So, all these references in the religious literature become clear when you yourself practice. Zh: Yes, it is exactly your own experience That gives this understanding, and you already have first-hand knowledge about what these phenomena are and how they divert you from the most important. And there are plenty of mentions of this. For example, there is an ancient Persian treatise on Sufism — the

book by Al-Hujwiri, which is called The Revelation of the Veiled. There is an expression there by an Islamic scholar of the 9th century, Al-Junayd al-Baghdadi, which says, “If God should say to me, 'Behold Me, ’ I should reply, 'I will not behold You, ' because in love the eye is other (than God)... Since in this world I was wont to behold Him without the mediation of the eye, How should I use such mediation in the next world?" And it is interesting when in practice you already understand that in order to feel God in the depth

of the soul, you don’t need either eyes or the ordinary, earthly hearing, or any illusory, three-dimensional images. Because they are like obstacles from consciousness, from the system. This is what hinders… IM: Right. In Christianity, there are also lots of mentions about this. About the fact that a person shouldn’t be tempted by illusory imagining of the spiritual. And the holy fathers warned that mind, on its own, can have the power of dreaming, That it can easily create illusory images, and in order not to be harmed by it, one should keep the mind colourless, formless, and imageless.

For example, also in the Philokalia book, in the fifth volume, the venerable Gregory of Sinai… IM: …Well, for those who don't know, he was an Orthodox saint of the 13th century, who revived the practice of Jesus’ Prayer on Mount Athos. T: Yes, absolutely right, he was one of the first hesychasts… So, he also wrote that “if while engaged in spiritual work you see a light or a fire outside you, or a form supposedly of Christ or of an angel or of someone else, Reject it lest you suffer harm. And do not pay court to images,

lest you allow them to stamp themselves on your intellect. For all these things that externally and inopportunely assume various guises do so in order to delude your soul.” IM: Many saints, even before the times of Gregory of Sinai, also said that one mustn’t keep in mind any images or thoughts while doing spiritual practice. And it doesn’t matter whether they are good or bad… Meaning, even if they are not bad, still, one mustn’t focus on them. Your appeal, your attention should be on the inner content of the essence, on the perception of the Spiritual World through

feelings. T: This is very important for those who practise… regarding thoughts — that it doesn't matter whether they are good or bad. These are thoughts! People misunderstand this point; they say, “If good thoughts come to me during meditation, it's nothing terrible, is it? They are actually good!” All this is probably a consequence that in some religions they say it this way, in other religions — in another way, well, they are just talking. But the one who searches for his own path usually searches for it everywhere. And here, consciousness immediately starts to mix it all up,

hence this misunderstanding occurs. And without the Knowledge, It's very difficult for a person to make sense of it all. IM: No matter what you do by means of your thoughts, it's like scooping an ocean with a cup. It's meaningless. You will never attain knowledge if you go to God by means of thoughts. A thought is an element of consciousness, while consciousness is a part of that which people call iblis or devil. How can you get to know God by using a tool given by the devil? There is no way. That's why it was said: listen

only with your heart. Don’t let your thought into God’s sacrament. For it will become not God’s, but satan’s. That’s the point. And this was said by those who came to know it. Yet, others said exactly the opposite: “There should be purity and concentration of the mind. And in your practices, focus your mind on good thoughts and perceive the good because mind (consciousness) is divided into two categories: good and bad. And here’s the point: for you to have a good life, you need to separate: you don’t perceive the bad and only perceive the good. But the

bad will be worming its way into you, and as soon as you get distracted from the good, bad thoughts will come again and seize your consciousness. Therefore, you should keep your mind in purity and focus only on good thoughts, and think only about good things all the time. In the beginning, it's difficult, but then it will get better and better.” There are such religions in which people are taught this way. And their whole meditation comes down to the point that you should keep your attention on a thought or the absence of thoughts. You know what

I would compare this to? I would compare this to… It’s not said in order to offend them. I have a very good and exceptionally fine attitude towards all religions. In every religion, there are grains, and in every religion, whatever it is, There is an indication of the path, while what happens next is people's business. So, why am I saying all this? I would compare these practices to painkiller medications during the development of a fatal disease. When taking painkillers, a person feels better, peaceful, almost healthy, while the deadly disease is progressing more and more and definitely

leads to a lethal outcome. Why? Because there is relief of pain, but there is no treatment, so the disease is developing freely and invisibly. This isn’t right. Any work with a thought is just horseplay in a sandbox, In the material, three-dimensional sandbox. Whether you think about good or think about bad — you think, and you don’t perceive what is deeper. I would give one more comparison: you’ve come to a lake, and you are admiring its smooth surface. Have you explored this lake, its depth, its waters? Until you dive in, you won't know. In order to

know what's in these waters, you need to dive in. While to look at the waters and to talk about what is floating on their surface is possible, of course, but you will not know what this lake is actually like. Something like that. Zh: Yes, and all these images are like an illusion on the surface of this lake, like a vapour on a hot day. And here, there is such a point that consciousness puts forward everything that is known to it. It will always substitute. It will always fill in the blanks. It always distorts and completes

the picture with something ephemeral. Anything to lure a person. And it draws from the storeroom of its memory everything that it knows and everything that fits in. But it happens only when a person stands on the shore and doesn’t dare to enter these waters, this lake, meaning, he doesn’t move forward. These images are like a means to attract attention. That is, for a person who is searching for this lake, they attract his attention. But for the one who already wants to know the depth, for the one who wants to dive into this lake, they already

begin to distract. IM: Absolutely right. As we already said, images distract. And on the contrary, they attune Personality… Well, what happens? Let's just consider an image. An image is always three-dimensional, and it is associated with something habitual for our consciousness in three-dimensionality. For Personality… And Personality perceives not only three-dimensionality… T: But it's not active here, in three-dimensionality, is it? IM: Yes, Personality perceives three-dimensionality only through consciousness. It cannot perceive this three-dimensional world by itself as we perceive it through consciousness in images. Hence, any image definitely comes through consciousness, that is, through such an intermediate link.

Is it possible for a person to enter the Spiritual World by means of consciousness? It’s impossible. But information, even that very Knowledge is spread, In the first place, in three-dimensionality. And when a person feels that it is true, he begins to study and become free by means of that very consciousness. And here consciousness works as a kind of a mediator that destroys itself. That's what distinguishes the Knowledge in its purity from distorted knowledge, for example. True Knowledge always speaks plainly and indicates the path, no more. There is purity in it, which Personality feels. It always

preserves the power coming from the Spirit, which is exactly what the Prophets convey, well, or someone who is speaking through them, messengers, let's say. But again, when the Knowledge becomes distorted, it attracts the mind, but doesn’t attract Personality. Personality may be attracted if the Knowledge is partially changed, meaning, there are substitutions, though insignificant ones, but the essence of what is said is still preserved. Such substitutions are dangerous, they distract, but at the same time, they retain at least a little essence and that inner power which they carry in themselves. And here Personality still has a

chance to break away. But when images come in large measure, when a desire for magic or something else is triggered, while an image is three-dimensionality, first and foremost. And behind three-dimensionality, there is always a desire for magic, a desire for material benefits, powers, and the like. Those who surmounted this path mentioned this, and it was basically understood in any religion. That is why they advised their disciples to get rid of all earthly things, in the first place, meaning, of images in spiritual practice, and to strive with all their Soul, "with all their heart", as they

called Personality, exactly for God. That is, to strive for the Spiritual World by means of perception through feelings, namely for merging, uniting with that world, Then consciousness surrenders as well. But again, I emphasize, consciousness served as an intermediate link here. That means, when a person doesn’t have freedom, he is dependent on three-dimensionality, and you can talk to him through his consciousness only. And here it’s important what is given and how it is given. If the Knowledge is pure and everything happens honestly, as they say, without substitutions, then it is transmitted, and it reaches Personality, and

the person feels it all. Most often, the first thing a person perceives is the outrage of his consciousness. Consciousness begins to make noise, but the person feels. This feeling of sincerity overcomes the unwillingness of consciousness to cognize this Truth. That is how the Truth itself is born. T: So, consciousness often manipulates, deceives, and traps a person exactly through images. For example, you’ve met a person, and his appearance or image creates one impression, one image in your consciousness. Consciousness has drawn some stereotyped ideal for itself or, on the contrary, that “everything is bad.” But then, there

is mutual work or life with this person, and the whole ideal, your own illusion, has been destroyed by your own consciousness. Why? Because your consciousness has found out what consciousness of this person is saying. That is, in reality, a person subconsciously reaches out to the spiritual part of another person, but then consciousness interferes and transforms everything into pridefulness and power over one’s own kind. However, if you work on yourself and live by another perception — by the deepest feelings, then you already know the difference between Truth and Lies, all these substitutions. That is, consciousness tells

and shows you one thing, but you already feel something completely different. Zh: Right, and you realise that in three-dimensionality these are just images which exist only in your consciousness and only when you yourself feed them with your attention. T: Yes, our entire society is organised to the tune of pridefulness and power over your own kind, meaning, to the dominance of consciousness… Everything is built on images, on some imaginary beliefs about oneself, people, and the world as a whole. Television, Internet… if we take those very companies, organizations, and advertising — everything is focused on images. IM:

An image is a tool of magic. T: Thus, if consciousness is predominant in a person, then an image can be used for enslavement, since an image is familiar. This gives an understanding why a person shouldn’t concentrate on images while searching for the path to God. IM: Absolutely right. For example, let’s consider inculturation. What is inculturation? T: It is sheer images… It’s an adaptation of a new religion to the culture of local people and, as a result, a replacement of traditional religion with a new one. IM: Absolutely right. Let’s consider Christianity. What was happening when they

began to disseminate that very Christianity? T: There was exactly a substitution of certain images for other ones. After all, from history, the first ecclesiastical experiments in inculturation of Christianity… It all started with Paul’s sermons, when he tried to inculcate the new religion among the Greeks and the Romans. And when Christianity already became an official religion, at first, it was one organization, then it was split into several organizations, then, for example, in missionary activity, Those very Catholic churches in various countries, how were they decorated? In the way adapted to the local culture. IM: Yes, that's right.

T: For example, what was depicted on icons? Again, images… images of the main biblical figures: Jesus, Virgin Mary, Apostles. However, it is interesting, how they were depicted? They were depicted with facial features that match the external phenotypic features of local peoples. IM: Absolutely right. In their missionary activity, they began to introduce certain substitutions. For example, in African countries, Jesus or Virgin Mary were depicted in icon-painting as Africans, Dark-skinned. It’s a habitual image which was not rejected. Why? Because supposedly the white ones would have been rejected by the majority of people. Only some people, those who

felt that there are grains of truth in this teaching, could join… And, taking into account that a religious organization is, first of all, an organization, and large-scale involvement is essential for it, that is why such substitutions were introduced where saints were presented as dark-skinned. They were familiar, they were understood by the African population, And those accepted them easily. Inculturation took place in the substitution not only of images, but also of many holidays of certain religions which Christianity replaced. They partly introduced cult ceremonies of those religions, which predominated in the territories where Christianity was being established.

In such a manner, they, simply put, lured those people in whose territories Christianity was being introduced, meaning, the introduction was happening in the literal sense of the word. T: Yes, there are many examples… That very Old Slavonic Christmastide, which, already under the influence of Christianity, began to be associated with Christmas ceremonies, The attributes of which were a candle as a person’s vital light and a mirror. And such holidays, which were borrowed from more ancient religions, exist not only in Christianity. For example, in the Central Asian countries, where Islam is traditionally professed, the holiday of Nowruz

Bayram is celebrated, meaning, the New Year. It is one of the oldest holidays. It is celebrated on the night before the day of vernal equinox. The interesting fact is that this holiday is celebrated annually in honour of resurrection from under the earth of the Good spirit bringing light, and of the defeat of the Evil spirit. It is almost like modern Easter. It’s interesting that some of the main attributes of the table are candles, a mirror, and coloured eggs. All of them have symbolic meaning, and this meaning is associated with the spiritual interpretation of these symbols.

For example, a candle is the inner light of a person, his or her vital force, while an egg symbolises a beginning of the person’s spiritual life. And the holiday of Nowruz Bayram was celebrated as early as the age of flourishing of the ancient religion of Zoroastrianism that preceded both Christianity and Islam. LIFE CANNOT BE TEMPORARY, ONLY EXISTENCE CAN BE TEMPORARY. RIGDEN DJAPPO All of this temporary world is just an illusion of mirror intersections, which captures human attention by false realism of shadows, their play of mutual contemplations. These are multiple mirror reflections of the One, which

make up the essence of the illusory world — the world of numerous pseudo-copies. While turning, these mirrors only distort the reflected light and are not light in their essence. The illusion arises from a person’s temptation by desires of this world, his unwillingness to penetrate into true reality. Reflections are more numerous, and they attract a person’s eye, focusing his attention on the dead. The true nature (the inclusion of the power of Allat) was compared to a burning candle. It was mentioned that once the burning candle disappears, everything visible will disappear and turn into nothing. The candle

is constant burning; the mirrors are a constant reflection. Everything is a reflection of something, a consequence and a cause. What draws a person's attention more in his life — the mirror play of multiple reflections of the material world or the true spiritual source — that is what he becomes a part of in the end. Only the one who’s not bound to the visible takes care of the soul. PRIMORDIAL ALLATRA PHYSICS allatra-science.org/en T: That’s how it happens in history: constant innovations of the well-forgotten old, when one religion replaces another, but claims to be unique. IM: Again,

is it good or bad? On the one hand, you can say it’s bad, but on the other hand, if you look at it — what’s wrong with that? One religion was replaced with another. A person has the right to choose whom to serve and how to behave. And again, who did this? People. Through what? Through their consciousness. What for? In order to popularize their faith. That is, out of good motives, they used certain three-dimensional tools to achieve a particular goal. Whether it's good or bad, everyone judges for themselves. As for me, to be honest, I

don’t see anything wrong with this. On the one hand, they seem to have replaced long-standing religions with their religions, but they are just organizations. If we draw a parallel with any organization… Let's take an organization that produces sportswear: everywhere, there are its signs, promotion, advertising of their clothes. If there is a famous or recognizable person in a particular territory, It’s enough to dress him in this sportswear, and people start imitating. This is natural, again we return to primates, to how consciousness works. It is just that the tool of consciousness was being used. But used by

whom? People, who primarily cared about their organization flourishing and expanding, just like, for example, an organization that sells or produces sportswear. Well, what can you want from people? Is it good or bad? For an organization it’s good, but what about people who have received this knowledge? But if they received this knowledge and didn’t use it, and as I said, there are no bad religions, all religions are good. In any religion, as in any organization, there are bad people Who serve the exact opposite, not in conformity to their religion, not in conformity to the Teachings that

are given in this religion. But again, they are just slaves of the system; they are just slaves of satan, what can you do? People are people. T: Yes, but unfortunately, we live in a consumer society where the spiritual path, natural for every person, is limited at best to the framework of a particular local religion. While religions are also restricted by the framework of a particular organization and, correspondingly, their popularization in such a society, in the consumer society doesn’t proceed Through people’s spiritual perception through feelings, but through images and desires from consciousness. That’s why such a

phenomenon as inculturation still exists. IM: If we look deeper, what is inculturation? Well, if we discard everything… It’s just an advertising tool, nothing more. It’s a natural evolutionary development of one or another organization. INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN THE WORLD IMAGES INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY MORE THAN 700 IMAGES OF MARY IN THE WORLD ANNUNCIATION. CHINESE ICON CHRISTIAN ART IN CHINA. 18TH CENTURY BIBLE IN CHINESE VIRGIN MARY WITH BABY JESUS FRESCO IN A CHURCH. ETHIOPIA. AFRICA COPTIC ICON. NORTHERN AFRICA “STAR OF THE SEA” INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN THE WORLD BIBLE IN HAKKA CHINESE INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA

CHRISTIAN ART IN THE WORLD MOTHER OF GOD, BEIJING, CHINA COPTIC ICONS INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN AFRICA ETHIOPIAN CHRISTIAN ART AFRICA NAVAJO NAVAJO ARE THE NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE TERRITORY OF THE USA CHRISTIAN ART IN NORTH AMERICA ETHIOPIAN ICONS CHRISTIAN ART INDIA INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA BIBLE IN HINDI VIRGIN MARY FLOATING OVER THE VATICAN IN THE LOTUS POSE INCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN THE WORLD AMERICA AFRICA MADONNA WITH JESUS IN HER ARMS NAVAJO NATIVE AMERICAN PEOPLE, NEW MEXICO, USA CHRISTIAN ART IN AFRICA MOTHER OF GOD ENCULTURATION OF CHRISTIANITY IN THE WORLD T: Igor

Mikhailovich, I know from personal experience that such a question may arise because at one time, frankly speaking, information about inculturation came as a shock to me. Because, all of a sudden, you discovered in yourself that your consciousness considered, without any doubt, Jesus or Mary, for example, to be yours, to look like your nation, to be exactly as you saw them on icons in your childhood. That is, you believed in this, you were satisfied with this, but exactly by this, you limited yourself. It can be said that due to your own laziness and pridefulness, You didn’t

go further in your spiritual knowledge. That's why the mindsets of consciousness collapsed. And consciousness immediately started to search for someone to blame for this in the outer world. But, thank God, the work on yourself was in progress, and there were certain understandings through feelings, and thanks to that, you realized that the enemy actually was inside of you, that consciousness was limiting you, that it was exactly consciousness that was making you believe in images and not search for the spiritual essence, precisely as it was said in the Teaching of this religion. But then one more question

remained. When I learnt for the first time that it wasn't about the images, I faced such a standard thought from consciousness: “How is that? It is Jesus himself! It is Virgin Mary herself! How can I chase them away from me in prayers, this is not right.” IM: When a person is doing some practice, or when an image of any saint comes to him, it comes as a three-dimensional image, don’t get distracted. And many saints spoke about this: even if Jesus or Mary appear in front of you — drive that image away. Drive away not them,

but this image. Why? Because consciousness shapes all this as an image. It means that the essence of this image is a distraction. It means that a person is not in a spiritual state, but merely in an altered state of consciousness. And this three-dimensional image is nothing but a deception even if it says the right things. Yet, the subtext will definitely be harmful to a person, not beneficial. But when a person is in a spiritual practice, he perceives even those very representatives of the Spiritual World, he feels them, meaning, there is no definite three-dimensional form. Zh:

So, here he already feels, not sees. IM: He feels. Zh: He doesn’t redirect his attention anymore. IM: Of course. Zh: After all, people are not told, for example, that Virgin Mary is a Spirit. What is Virgin Mary in reality? Because if the true meaning of “Spirit” is lost, then only material understanding remains, understanding that it is “Mother,” that it’s “protection and care”. And here consciousness plays such a sneaky role with people because it actively promotes images through, again, religions, as an element of magic. Meaning, in those places where people truly need to gain the understanding

and the skill of living by the Spiritual World, The world of God, through the deepest feelings — an entirely opposite story happens. People get stuck on images and simply don’t move beyond these images because at that moment consciousness tries to focus the power of a person's attention on this very substitution — on magic. That is, a person, by appealing to images drawn by other people, begins to ask for something earthly for himself in a consumerist manner. IM: Right you are. T: So, when I began to study this issue, I saw the Knowledge given in the

book AllatRa already in a new way and realized that originally in early Christianity There were almost no images, there were signs and symbols. IM: Correct, and that is why in the renewed religion brought by the Prophet Muhammad, it was clearly stated, “do not create any images”, and they were moving away from images. Why are icons prohibited there, portrayals of that very Muhammad are forbidden, and so on? So that consciousness doesn’t create an image. One should perceive through feelings; one should learn perception through feelings. Muhammad taught this to his disciples: to perceive the Spiritual World And

representatives of the Spiritual World through feelings. But not visually, not by using visualisation, not with the help of hallucinations. That’s the point. T: Yes, in Islam, images in the decoration of holy places are not acceptable. Muslims compose abstract patterns and pictures… IM: Absolutely right. T: …For that, they use epithets, names of God, or verses from the Qur’an in Arabic writing. IM: That’s right, even Muslim imams themselves say that those who think that Allah has a face, be it of light, of a young or an elder — They do not know Allah the Almighty, they do

not know that it’s simply their imagination and presentation, meaning, their illusion which doesn’t exist in reality. And the trouble of those people is that they don’t understand existence without a body, therefore they stubbornly attribute to Allah both a body and the qualities of a human. But it is said in the Qur’an that “there is nothing like Him” (meaning Allah)… Zh: Yes… God doesn’t have boundaries so that one could imagine Him and mentally comprehend His nature. IM: Whatever you search for in your thoughts, you will not be able to find it to describe His great face

Because He has no face. He is so great that there is nothing like Him. WHATEVER YOU SEARCH FOR IN YOUR THOUGHTS, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND IT TO DESCRIBE HIS GREAT FACE BECAUSE HE HAS NO FACE. HE IS SO GREAT THAT THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM… T: Basically, now a broader explanation is given of what images on icons of that very Virgin Mary are, and what the Mother of God actually is as Spirit. Yet, back then, another question from consciousness arose: “But how is it… that the images of the Mother of God come

to people all over the world?” IM: Why does the system often use images? Regarding the fact that almost all over the world people who are religiously attuned, and even those who are not religiously attuned, often experience vision of the representatives of the Spiritual World. I mean, in habitual images. Very often, they see Virgin Mary as a quick helper, but again, in the majority of cases, it is precisely a creation of Mary’s antipode. Thus, consciousness uses a familiar image to anchor people exactly in the material. Just note, while being in a sick state, a person is

praying, an image of Mary comes to him, and he gets cured. What will happen to that person? His faith will be strengthened… faith in consciousness, but doubts inside. And a person doesn’t go to develop spiritually himself, but he gets stuck exactly in the point that he was selected, he’s a chosen one, he was visited and saved. Has a person really got saved after getting cured of an illness?! A simple question. Now he won't die, or what? Has he become immortal? It’s a trick from consciousness. What will arise in him? Yes, faith and understanding will arise

in him, but also fear. Fear that will not let him enter the Spiritual World. What did he ask for? Material benefits, resolution of a conflict situation, a better life. What did he get in the end? Such an opportunity. But what is happening now? Fear of loss. What hinders him? Fear. Does he have an opportunity? He does. However, there is a fear of the unknown, but a fear coming from whom? From consciousness, from the one who asked for help in front of the icon. And this way it locks him up. Zh: A consumerist attitude towards the

Spiritual World. Hence, he will ask again if he… IM: Surely, he will always ask. He won’t do it himself. Why would he create anything himself if he can ask and get it? It’s much easier this way. However, the following may happen as well: a person really feels an intervention… A person who should do something in his life, something good, or he stands on the threshold, let’s say, facing the choice, he feels the presence. He realizes that it’s the influence of Mary, exactly her influence. But he doesn’t see a three-dimensional image. It is perception through feelings.

That’s the point: perception through feelings, or when there’s already magic. While magic always comes from the system. It doesn’t come from the Spiritual World. The Spiritual World doesn’t need magic. Why would it interfere in this world? Sometimes direct interference occurs, and those cases are rare and exceptional, but more often, it is just an expression of trust, let’s call it so. It’s a manifestation of that power which is used just to help people in their spiritual development as Personalities, when it can be felt even at the physical level. This is to help people. However, many people

use these powers to develop metaphysical abilities in themselves. Again, they turn it all to the detriment. Why do they turn it all to the detriment? Dictation of consciousness. Doesn’t he as a Personality feel and understand that he should preserve these drops of life-giving dew and use them on his way through the desert? T: … That is, to multiply them. IM: That’s right. It means one should not only preserve them, but with their help surmount this path. However, consciousness immediately distracts and says, “Go ahead and invest it here,” the person invests and sees a result. “You

see — it works! You’ve gained something in three-dimensionality.” Yet, what can you gain here that will remain with you? Nothing. All this is an illusion; all this is temporary. Just another picture in your consciousness. That is how consciousness works. T: So, it forces a person to constantly return to the Source again and again, doesn’t it? IM: …to desire this Source. And a person strives for this Source while not becoming it himself, But he just strives for it in order to use it once again for three-dimensionality. Zh: He comes for additional powers. IM: Absolutely right, it’s

nothing more than accumulation of powers. Why are these tools used so rarely, and this is given quite rarely in fact? It is given in extreme cases when it is necessary to help people, but nothing more. First of all, because people often use it for three-dimensionality and not for spiritual growth. Well, sometimes it is used just as a confirmation, or it was called a “seal”. That is, a “seal of power” — it is something which is manifested. FROM THE INEVITABLY DEAD TO THE ETERNALLY ALIVE T: Igor Mikhailovich, you were talking specifically about the manifestation of the

Mother of God, angels and the like. People wonder, ”What is the difference between spiritual vision and a fruit of their imagination? What is spiritual vision?” IM: Spiritual vision is exactly a vision of reality. Right now, trying to explain it, I may simply confuse people. Because consciousness, imagination, a hallucination of consciousness, always draws in habitual forms: in those which we can imagine for ourselves, which we see. Look into consciousness; it will show you a lot of things. Yet, how can you see a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, an angel or something else? Only with your inner

eyes. But they won’t show you a three-dimensional picture. T: Yes, only with your inner eyes! It is interesting that people who indeed, in practice, follow the spiritual path, they understand each other regardless of their affiliation with one religion or another because the Truth is one for everyone. And we understand this, reading letters from various parts of the world, Communicating with people who grew up in the environment of different cultures or religious traditions. For example, what is said both in Christianity and in Sufism about perceiving of God’s Love? In the treatises on Sufism, those who practise,

describe what it means to know God — it is to live by contemplating God with your heart. At that, by “contemplation”, Sufis specifically mean “spiritual vision”. They emphasize that some people fall into error, supposing that spiritual vision and contemplation are some sort of an image of God Which their consciousness forms and presents using its own ideas, memory, or mind. IM: Well, of course, it’s just a program of the mindsets of consciousness. T: While the real contemplation is already a result of diligence in sincere rapturous Love. The Love that elevates you as Personality to such a

height where inner life itself becomes a single aspiration for the Beloved one, for God, for the Spiritual World… for Him only. And there is this inner understanding that except Him, nothing else exists. Zh: Yes, because you already understand that the work on yourself is manifested, first and foremost, through sincerity and through honesty. And all this takes place through self-restraint. Meaning, it's not someone else who needs this, but, first of all, you need this yourself. At this point, the inner need to live by God, by the Spiritual World, already arises. And you already thirst for this

inner contact, for immersion into this boundless joy of Love, this living by the deepest feelings, because it gives you everything genuine, it gives you Life, it vivifies you with Love. You feel that you are being filled with it, You feel the joy from that world, which cannot be temporary, how it overflows, how much of it there is, and how it manifests itself in its boundlessness through Love and gratitude. You understand that this is so simple! And you experience such gratitude; you are in such grace… it's very hard to express it in words. You just unite

with the Source of God’s Love and become its part. You are craving to radiate this Love incessantly and to be in it. Because in such moments you realise that… the Spirit is in freedom! IM: Yes… in order to join the Spiritual World, you should stay on the side of the Spiritual World And become a Spirit yourself, then you will join it. That is, Spirit can merge with Spirit, matter with matter. Fire with fire, water with water. However, fire will not mix with water. T: Igor Mikhailovich, there is such a question in the letter of a

person who practises Sufism. In those very treatises on Sufism, there is such a description, that when a person performs mujahadah, meaning inner jihad against his lowly passions, then mushahadah is revealed to him, Meaning, this blissful contemplation of boundless Love, this enduring amazement by God’s greatness and power… And the question is: ”When this spiritual vision is revealed to a person, do the distinctions between this earthly world and the Spiritual World become erased?” IM: In reality, when mushahadah is revealed to a person, under no circumstances do the distinctions become erased. It is simply that a new perception

is acquired, different from the perception to which a person as Personality is accustomed, to the perception which his consciousness is foisting on him. He acquires a new perception. It cannot be associated with anything in this world, it is even difficult to describe. For example, how can you describe God’s Love? We are trying to do it with earthly words, we talk about it a lot, but it’s a distortion anyway, it is still bringing that happiness down to earth. For instance, we say — happiness. What is happiness in people’s understanding? It’s a temporary, immediate, and quick-passing phenomenon.

While there, it is boundless. We say — boundless happiness, And we compare a boundless ocean with a drop in the palm of your hand. And it is precisely this drop that we call boundless happiness in this world. But in fact, it’s an ocean; it is boundless, it has neither beginning nor end. And that is difficult to convey. T: It means that the distinctions between the earthly world and the Spiritual World do not become erased, but… IM: …the distinctions do not become erased, on the contrary, they become evident. What am I getting at? Transfer of knowledge

or experience in such a way is attractive only as a philosophy. It sounds good, people talk and write about it. Because it's acceptable to consciousness that distinctions become erased, and it’s attractive for it. It’s attractive precisely for consciousness that “the verge is erased and this world smoothly segues into that one, and that world is part of this one”, like yin and yang. Well, it’s clear that the Spirit is present in this world, and everything alive is alive precisely due to Spirit, and if you remove Spirit, everything will disappear. It means that a part of the

Spiritual World is present here, but it is present as motion, not more than that. And then, everything is done as it is done, But it is done by the will of the Prince who controls this world. And this power is given to him not because he revolted, or he is strong, or he is equal to God and has conquered his own world — no, by no means. We already spoke of this many times and will not repeat. The whole point here is that it is advantageous for the system to make people’s consciousness perceive it this

way, this pleases its pridefulness. While in fact, everything changes drastically, and images disappear, and there is an understanding of the emptiness of this world. That’s why we said it many times, And I’ll repeat it once again that Personality doesn’t perceive the three-dimensional world. Personality starts perceiving this world from much higher dimensions. And from much higher dimensions, even speaking the language of physics, this world turns into nothing. It is ridiculous, it is truly ridiculous. If there were such a mirror which would reflect for consciousness the way Personality sees and perceives this world, I guess, it would

be the coolest show that could ever be in this world. Why? Because that which we consider to be life turns out to be emptiness which is merely moving while changing illusions. For this reason, such interpretations lead people a little astray and, unfortunately, increase the influence of consciousness on Personality. And for people who get immersed in some reflections regarding such interpretations it is harder to break free. Because Personality gets information from consciousness that “all the distinctions should be erased and everything should become a single whole.” Thus, Personality is searching for the way there, where everything is

a single whole… While distinctions do exist. The Alive cannot be dead, And certainly the dead cannot be Alive. Zh: Yes, indeed, this is very useful information for the one who practises. A frequent example, and I encountered this myself at the beginning of the path that when a person only begins to practise, the first thing he faces is the fear coming from consciousness, meaning, the fear of going beyond the limits of the familiar. When, for example, for the first time in his life, a person had a successful practice, and he came in contact… this first experience

of contacting the spiritual… this first contact with the unknown, It also causes an attack from consciousness. Meaning, consciousness imposes fear on him. First of all, fear that a person can lose his self-identity. But is this self-identity really his? That’s the question. Because, in fact, only consciousness can lose its own "Self". T: Consciousness is afraid of novelty, especially when it comes to this moment which you spoke about, the moment of contact with the spiritual, with that which is beyond-the-boundary for it, because it is unknowable to consciousness, and the way there is closed for it, consciousness doesn’t

know and doesn’t understand. As Igor Mikhailovich said, at this moment, it is simply that "Personality goes beyond the limits in which consciousness can function." Zh: Right, and if a person wasn’t tricked by the first fear, then the second fear from consciousness arises that "you will never be able to do it again." T: Yes, but at first it says, "Remember these sensations that happened now or that occurred in the past, and be sure to repeat them next time." Zh: Well, of course, because it knows that next time, it won’t work for the person exactly in the

same way. Why? Because, when starting to perform your spiritual practice next time, instead of doing it, you will be straining your consciousness and recalling how it was for you last time… T: And, on top of that, consciousness will embellish this "heroic past" of yours. And your attention gets hooked… Instead of a practice, it is some kind of a movie from consciousness about a superman, where your pridefulness is the director. Well, and in general, what can your consciousness show you? It shows ordinary illusions, images, everything phantom… Because that's all it is capable of. IM: You have

noted absolutely correctly that consciousness creates an illusion and attempts to bind Personality to that very illusion. But notice, not to the practice, not to the previous experience, but to the illusion created by consciousness against the background of previous experience. That is, a person, performing spiritual practice, regardless of whether it’s a prayer, a meditation, or the like, receives an experience through feelings, the real experience, the experience of perceiving the Spiritual World. That which cannot be described with words, manifests in him. And here, Primary consciousness, Since it has quite a marked connection with Personality, receives echoes and

surges. It doesn’t receive the information which Personality has perceived. Primary consciousness receives only echoes. Not the flame of a fire, but, let's say, distant specks of light and a slight warmth. But on the basis of this, it creates its illusion. And after a person finishes spiritual practice or prayer, after a certain time, it forces him to analyse: "What did you feel? What did you perceive?" And it already imposes something of its own in interpretation by the system. This is an absolutely wrong experience… Personality gets true experience, while consciousness creates an illusion based on this experience.

And later on, consciousness already begins to tell Personality that "you must feel this and this and that", meaning, it takes him to the material world. It makes him feel the physical manifestations that he felt during practice. But again, what happened during the practice? When Personality came into contact with that which is unknowable to consciousness, while acquiring spiritual experience, it is natural that other processes took place, Stronger manifestations of other types of energies. This is banal physics. In the physical body, there are echoes of these manifestations, too. And consciousness, I emphasize again, Primary consciousness, perceives them.

Later, it persuades Personality, saying, "You will fail at everything. You got there accidentally. But now, in order to get there and become rooted, you should first generate in yourself these sensations in the physical body. You should be in an altered state of consciousness…" And it begins to tell you what it perceived, but again, always with a substitution. And a person, trying to do something, already does it with the help of consciousness, and he doesn't succeed. Later on, consciousness begins to tell him, "Did you actually have that experience, or was it an illusion? Or was it

some kind of self-suggestion, self-hypnosis? Maybe it was a hallucination, maybe it was a coincidence that you felt this. In fact, as you can see, this doesn’t exist. As for the point that other people talk about this, they fall into delusion, into an illusion. This is some kind of fanaticism talking in them, all the way to some kind of mental disorders, That they see something that doesn’t exist. And, if you practise this and do it, you will get in trouble, too. Therefore, you’d better not do it. Why? You tried, you didn't succeed. Hence this doesn't exist."

This is how, so very often, consciousness simply leads people away from the true path, replacing it with some kind of elementary, let's say, theatrical performances in three-dimensionality, forcing a person to do something physically, to perform some practices, to sit properly, to stand properly. Who cares what the position of your body is?! Who cares what you are doing in three-dimensionality?! Whether you are hitting a tambourine, piling stones, or performing other rituals — it is just ritualism, it is just what the system is imposing on you. God is near. He is indeed closer than your carotid artery.

He’s very near, and it is very easy to come to Him. But something much bigger than mountains stands in the way. Consciousness stands in the way, and consciousness is a part of the system. That is, the dead stands on the way to the Alive. And this must be remembered. Also, under no circumstances should you focus on what consciousness tells you. A spiritual impulse is needed, a spiritual experience. You should learn… just to Live. And Life is beautiful. And no matter what consciousness says, no matter how it persuades you that "you will not succeed and you

cannot do anything" — this doesn’t concern you. It speaks only about itself. Consciousness really cannot do that. And it really doesn’t know anything about the Spiritual World. Only echoes, which people who learned something talk about, and it makes its illusory pictures out of that. Therefore, the main thing is to keep going and not to give up. And not to listen to the guides who are leading you the wrong way… I mean consciousness. Because your consciousness is not yours, it's a part of the system, and this must not be forgotten. Then everything will be fine; then

everything will work out. Zh: Right. And when you live by perception through feelings, Then you simply Live. And there is a huge difference because it is as if you are breathing air. You just know inside how it is to breathe, and that's it. Consciousness doesn’t give freedom to Personality. You just need to know that if it worked out once, then the second time just don't be day-dreaming, don't blame everyone around you for your failure because this is just a trick, it’s a "hello" from consciousness when it looks for an enemy in the external. You simply

need to understand that consciousness can put up such obstacles because it’s not beneficial for it if you become spiritually free. And when you understand that this is just the work of consciousness, that this is how it works, you don’t fight with it, but simply keep opening up in freedom. That is, you understand that everything becomes very easy, that you don’t have attachment to the past, don’t have attachment to the future. You understand that in spiritual practice, it is constant "now" because this is real Life. And in real Life, every moment is unique. T: Absolutely right.

Zh: Then you simply live by the inner, you are filled inside. You see this difference when you look at a person with earthly eyes, And when you look with an inner spiritual gaze. It becomes very easy to distinguish the Truth from Lies because no matter who says what, you already feel what is really going on… A person becomes like an open book for you: all his thoughts coming from consciousness are visible, he is seen in all his spiritual essence because you feel, and feelings cannot be deceived. You feel who is empty inside and has no

spiritual experience which his consciousness boasts about. You also feel those who, like you, are in constant practice, those who live by the Spiritual World, Who are filled with this near and dear God's Love. You see his spiritual essence because you feel it from the inside, and you understand that there is something greater behind it, something that unites both of you. And this experience is not like the one you had in the usual life, when you were feeding consciousness with your attention. Because in three-dimensionality, you were feeding images… you were feeding your consciousness. But when you’ve

started living by the Spiritual world, all your attention is directed through the deepest feelings towards God. Your attention is directed to Home, to the Source. You simply live by the Spirit. Everyone chooses how to live; everyone makes their own choice. IM: You have absolutely correctly noted. Spiritual vision is strikingly different from the earthly one. Spiritual vision gives an understanding of the Truth; you see what is really there. While the earthly vision is just what consciousness wants to impose on you or show you as Personality. Meaning, it creates another illusion, one that you must believe in,

one that should distract you from your true purpose, from what you are here for. This is a huge difference. Also about lies… A lie is an element of the system. In the Spiritual World, there are no lies and cannot be. In the Spiritual World, there is only Truth. That is why spiritual vision, again, I emphasize, always shows what is really there. An important point: people are striving for magic because, in reality, Personality seeks spiritual development… T: So, Personality feels this need for spiritual development, development of something beyond-the-boundary, while consciousness just replaces this need with magic?

IM: Yes. There is a point here. It lies in the fact that Personality seeks to learn the Truth. Personality strives for freedom, for real freedom. Personality does not and cannot have enemies, meaning, in the Spiritual World. From the Spiritual World's position of understanding, Personality is absolutely free. It seeks this freedom, it strives for it. While consciousness, as we said many times, does everything to prevent Personality from developing as a Spiritual being. That is, in order to preserve its power, its illusory power over Personality. That’s right, what you've said is absolutely right. Fortunately, I want to

note that very many people have started to realize this. And indeed, as of today, we can talk with many without words. Looking ahead, I will say that every year there will be more and more such people. And this is nice, it's really nice. The point is that the language of practitioners or people who follow the spiritual path and really strive for God, regardless of their religion, denomination, or anything else — it is one, and people feel each other. God is really one, the Spiritual World is one, and people have absolutely nothing to divide. Consciousness separates.

It creates enmity and imposes an illusion simply because of power, because of the desire to dominate over Personality. But when people get to know what the Spiritual World really is, they become one family, regardless of nationality, of religious views, whether a person was an atheist or whoever he was before he was able to feel that the Spiritual World exists. As soon as a person has felt, realised and understood this, he becomes a part of the spiritual family, the real family, the true and inseparable one, that family where life is Eternal, it doesn’t end And, naturally,

it’s not in three-dimensionality, it’s not in the earthly. Everything earthly is finite, whatever is here, it's all temporary. Even those very illusions that consciousness imposes are temporary. That's why such moments arise when people faithfully serve in religion all their lives, and until the last day they doubt: "Is there really God?" Why? Because they were serving, serving consciousness. And here’s the point, whom were they serving with their consciousness? Well, definitely not God, definitely not the Spiritual World. They were only serving the system: to benefit some organization, to satisfy their own desires or something else, but most

often, to satisfy other people's desires imposed upon them by someone else's consciousness, not even their own. But when people learn in practice, in reality, when they acquire Knowledge, they no longer need words. They understand this, they know. They know who they are, they know where they are going and why. This is the highest value. That's what people come here for, to be born… to be born Alive. Zh: Yeah… T: Igor Mikhailovich, I was very touched by what you just said, especially by what you said about one family in a spiritual sense. But consciousness banally twists

everything and brings up earthly ideas about one’s family. It immediately fragments and divides. It shows you some specific people, images… So to say, shows you relatives by flesh and blood. Moreover, the first thing that comes back to memory is exactly emotional relationships with these people, or to be more precise, relationships with their consciousness. The most interesting thing is that earlier, being more in domestic relationships with these people, even a thought didn’t come to your head that these people in reality were… that in these people, just like in you, there is a part of the Holy

Spirit, that they are Personalities, Personalities in the non-material sense of this word. And why did you think this way before? Because you simply thought, but not felt, because you yourself were consciousness and lived by it. And it's natural that for consciousness, everything is always built on its own egoism. When looking honestly at the relationships with your family, What happens at those moments when you live to the dictation of your consciousness? Your consciousness constantly belittles the significance of others compared to you. For it, everything is around secret thoughts, and consciousness is afraid to announce these thoughts.

It’s afraid of purity of relationships, of honesty and simplicity. Why? Because it craves power, it is concerned about its crown: what bad things were said about you and by whom, or on the contrary, who praised you. And in all of this, your entire life is passing, or to be more precise, the life of your consciousness is passing. But when you realise that you are actually Personality, then in another person you also already see, first of all, his spiritual potential, you see a spiritual Personality, and most importantly, you feel it, regardless of what your consciousness is

telling you. IM: Absolutely right. How does our consciousness perceive what “family” is, what “relatives and close ones” are? These are, again, mother, father, children, grandmothers, grandfathers, brothers, sisters, well, and sort of the whole family. In reality, when people gain spiritual experience, They understand that all are one, regardless of the colour of skin, regardless of who lives where. It is one, it’s a single whole, it is humanity. Everyone has a soul. And hurting someone is wrong, it’s the same as hurting the closest one. Hating someone is wrong, even if he’s evil and did something bad to

you, you should understand that it's his consciousness. I’m not saying that when they hit you on the left cheek, you should turn your right one. When the system is in front of you, you should make it understand; it won't comprehend it otherwise. But I want to emphasize that Personality, as a potential Spiritual Being, is the same in everyone, it belongs more to the Spiritual World. And only when it gives up, loses its personal Armageddon and becomes a part of the system, then it simply dies… Yes, slowly… Subpersonality is a problem; after-death sufferings are also terrible.

But it’s not the point… This is temporary anyway; it stops existing in either case. But as long as a person is alive, he has a chance, he has an opportunity to join the Boundless World, the Spiritual World, and become part of an enormous family. And here it's important to understand that any evil which a person multiplies from consciousness really stands between Personality and the Spiritual World and moves you further away from the people closest to you. And as I have already said, the closest person is any person. People who attain perception of the Spiritual World

in practice feel and understand this particularly well. They understand all this. Naturally, there is also a negative aspect, speaking the earthly language. Why? Because, as it has already been said, you can feel lies coming from consciousness. When a person comes, using the language of religion, “with devil up his sleeve”, and talks from the devil, then, naturally, it’s unpleasant. You feel sorry for his Personality, sorry for him missing an opportunity to gain spiritual knowledge. But at the same time, when he allows his consciousness to dictate to him as Personality, and evil is being done through him

— this is unpleasant. But at least a person knows the Truth. He knows whom he is talking to: whether he’s talking to Spirit, or he’s talking to the devil. This is also important. Zh: Yes, and this is one of such side effects of spiritual development when you feel a person even before he starts saying something, when you feel whom he will now be transmitting from and what he actually wants. And you already know the final goal of his visit. Because these are not some psychic abilities when people catch fragments of thoughts. No, here everything is

much more serious. You have a holistic, volumetric understanding. You have a holistic, volumetric perception. You understand cause-and-effect relationships, Meaning, you see deeper, you know from whom a person is speaking: from Spirit or from the system. And you know what that very system wants. You simply know… The Alive cannot be dead, and certainly the dead cannot be Alive. IM: If we face the truth, consciousness manipulates a person. It helps as well: we communicate and perceive each other with its help. However, by hiding behind its mediating, such diplomatic capabilities between Personality and three-dimensionality, it manipulates a person.

Personality is not quite material. While consciousness is material, Personality is not material. For an understanding of this process, I will simply explain how it happens. Consciousness is an intermediary, it has a direct connection with Personality. That’s why we perceive, we see, feel, and so on. In this process, Personality receives that information about three-dimensionality which is given to it by consciousness, in that form in which we are used to seeing it. But when a person discovers abilities of inner vision, then three-dimensionality appears to be totally different, and the notion of such a two-legged image or whatever

else, Well, it doesn’t quite correspond to reality. T: Meaning, the value of matter itself is lost? IM: Yes. One person expressed this manifestation well. He was asked, “How do you see another person?” And he replied, “Have you seen the rotation of an electron, an electron cloud? Well, something like that, only there is more dirt.” T: This is also a frequent question: “What does it mean, a different vision of another person?” When a person has never seen anything except three-dimensionality, and he doesn’t have this practical experience of perception through feelings, What will his consciousness show him

in another person? Only a body, that is, speaking the language of physics, a three-dimensional image because that’s how the perception of his consciousness is attuned. IM: Yes, this is so. A person sees three-dimensionality in another person: simply arms, legs, and all the rest. But if we look at three-dimensionality from the perception through feelings, really from the spiritual perception, then what do we see, even if we look at another person? We see an object — a blurred spot. It is similar to… Well, it’s like rotation of an electron around an atomic nucleus. Just a blurred little

cloud, and all its components are visible. But we don’t see a three-dimensional object when perceiving through feelings. And here for us, of course, consciousness is of help. That is, through consciousness, we see an object. And it turns out that when a person is already spiritually developed enough, he is free, he feels one thing, but sees another. He understands perfectly well that he sees an object with his earthly eyes. But he also sees the same object with his spiritual eyes. He sees whether a person is imbued spiritually or not. Whether he is empty inside or filled

up. Again, in what condition his Personality is: In a slavish state or it has already gained a degree of freedom. That is why many participants write letters to you, we read them shortly before the conversation, and they ask questions: why do they feel that those whom they considered spiritual are empty inside? Well, that’s exactly the point that people who are themselves developing begin to feel. And perception through feelings is vision through feelings. Meaning, they feel that a person says the right things, while he’s empty inside. But in the same way, again, consciousness can also play

with people. A person enters a temple, and instead of praying to God, He starts comparing shovel sizes with Him, as if in a sandbox, begins to make claims to God. Why? Because the person himself is empty inside. Consciousness doesn’t let him comprehend, doesn’t let him perceive anything divine. But he wants to… consciousness tells a person, “You need to feel a manifestation of the Spiritual World at the physical level. Something should really happen right now, then you will believe.” Yet, how many times in the history of humanity have people been through this, When indeed there were

phenomena with metaphysical manifestations and so on. And what did people do?! How did their consciousness perceive such things? It started making things up, explaining all this by natural phenomena, some metaphysical matters, magic; it began to accuse, saying that there was a demon in that person. What will consciousness tell, first of all? “A devil is in him and not God’s Spirit.” Why? Because it’s much simpler to accuse and deny in order for Personality not to gain freedom. If Personality sees examples, it understands that it can also do that. While for consciousness, this is extremely frightening. So

it begins to accuse, to say, “Come on, this is, on the contrary, demons… magic.” Zh: Because it is not beneficial for the system when a person becomes spiritually free. IM: Of course, because then the system starts working for him. Zh: Yes, and then the system instead of receiving… IM: …receiving, it spends. And that’s the phenomenon: no one wants to lose. It is bad business for the system. T: I also wanted to share such a moment from my personal experience Because I understand that such a question may arise from consciousness in people who follow the spiritual

path. Well, at least, this question arose in me at the initial stages. When I first encountered this Knowledge, inside I felt… well, something very near and dear. And there, deep inside, there was a definite “Yes!” But consciousness was throwing in doubts all the time, weighing some pros and cons all the time. An understanding of what I will gain on the spiritual path — it was an understanding from the inside, an understanding beyond consciousness. This inimitable feeling of freedom… There was an absolute deep confidence… But consciousness was throwing in a thought, “What will I lose on

the spiritual path?” There was, of course, a trap here because at that moment I didn’t have an answer to this question. Well, I can say, even fear arose in consciousness… But there was certainly more of the good inside. IM: On the spiritual path, a person doesn’t lose anything except sorrow and death. A person gains. That’s why the fear of following the spiritual path Comes only from consciousness. Why? Because it imposes its shackles on Personality. While Personality loses shackles on the spiritual path. Many people are afraid that when perceiving, truly perceiving the spiritual, a person can

lose those earthly skills which he acquired. He won’t. Nothing is lost. There comes a new understanding, a new perception. An understanding comes of what consciousness is. But this is not beneficial for consciousness, therefore it imposes its opinion that a person may lose something. You won’t lose anything; you will only gain. You will gain that which cannot be gained in three-dimensionality. Because that which you will gain is Eternal. And if it’s Eternal, it cannot be lost. Whereas, everything you gain here, you will lose. It’s important, it’s necessary to know this before starting one’s path. And before

making the first step, a person needs to be aware and understand that he shouldn’t rely on consciousness on the spiritual path. Because if he listens to its hints, it can lead to diseases, to tragedies, to anything. But excuse me, what does the spiritual have to do with this, If you rely on the broken crutches of your consciousness? You shouldn’t rely on anything. You should simply Love. And when you really love, you are loved too. Why would the one who doesn’t have a body need supports? Supports are needed for a material body, yet it is temporary,

and any supports are temporary. This is important. Zh: Yes, because you realise that a practical path to God is a path of exactly your inner feelings and actions. This is a very important moment — precisely actions. That means, you don’t sit and wait for someone to come and give you something, but you act, you simply express your feelings, you love, you are in this feeling every day. You express your intention with your feelings; you express it in the moment of “here and now.” And this is your personal life — this is the life of Personality.

It differs very much from that personal life which your consciousness knows; after all, it was making you suffer from thoughts, making you think about the external… Because in these minutes of deep inner joy, you understand that your Spirit is not enslaved, That your Spirit is above intellect. You understand that the Spirit is free, and you understand that its power is in Love. You understand that the deepest self-expression of your boundless Love — that’s the practical path to God, and in practice, this is exactly what is most important. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive

IM: When people are open to each other, and perception through feelings predominates in them, then in three-dimensionality they simply supplement. And indeed, they easily understand and easily grasp each other. However, as soon as consciousness overwhelms: “How do we understand each other? I don’t even know your language.” That’s it, they stop understanding. Why? Not because consciousness has distracted, but because perception through feelings has closed down. After all, a person is where he invests the power of his attention. If you invest it in consciousness, in matter, perception through feelings shuts down. T: There is such an opinion

that when a person begins to feel more, the system also begins to react to him more. Igor Mikhailovich, could you please comment on this point? IM: This is really so, because the system always reacts, and it does everything in order to, let’s say, Cut a person off from perceiving the Spiritual World. It puts obstacles in his way. Because indeed, when something happens in a person’s life, he invests attention in what is happening and gets distracted out of habit. And through his consciousness, the system tries to keep him off the spiritual path so that he feels

less. But this happens when a person begins to feel. T: Igor Mikhailovich, and when does a person become invisible to the system? IM: When he lives by the Spiritual World, then the system simply doesn’t notice him. It notices him only when he lives by the material world, when he’s back here, Just like we are sitting, talking, and so on — now we are visible. T: So, the first step on the spiritual path is self-exploration. IM: Yes. In reality, this path which we are talking about is simple and elementary; it gives an opportunity to realise all

the essence and the depth. Again, to learn how your consciousness works, to come to an understanding that your consciousness is not quite yours, no matter how paradoxical this is, and the funniest thing is that it’s not you. We already brought this up with you in the video, that, thank God, now we can voice this. Why? Because this has been already confirmed by many neurophysiologists And other people who study and at least observe themselves. They themselves face the fact that, as it turns out, consciousness rather puts spokes in the wheels than helps in the process of

studying it… T: What is the reason for that? IM: The reason is that the consciousness of every person is a part of the whole. It’s like a mycelium. The system really exists. And that which is mentioned in religions, in the Bible, that the devil exists… Of course, he does, no one is arguing about that. We can call him differently: It may be called the Universal mind, it may be called the Absolute, it may be called the information field, it may be called anything. But it’s more convenient to call it the system. On the spiritual path,

a person does not lose anything except sorrow and death T: Igor Mikhailovich, what do people not see? What is happening to them on a global scale? IM: That’s a good question: “What do people not see?” Everything is what people don’t see. As a matter of fact, if we consider a human as Personality, as a viewer who is present in the theatre of life, A human doesn’t see the most important thing. People don’t see that they are Personalities. And people don’t see and don’t understand that they can really become immortal. They don’t see and don’t understand

the elementary — what they are here for, just the simplest point — what the meaning of their existence is. What do they put their trust in? In something habitual: what they are accustomed to since childhood, what they have been taught. Yet, what have they been taught? To be smart, to listen to consciousness, to be crafty, to live, to survive. To live and to survive where? The directive is right: to survive. Again, to live — this is right. And to live well is right, too. But to live where? Eternal life is replaced with temporary existence. And

what is happening to a person? He’s like a blind man. And what his consciousness shows him… Well, that’s right, it shows him: “Here is a tree.” A person comes up, touches it — it’s a tree. “Here is a stone.” A person comes up, touches it, yes, it’s a stone. He can lift it; it is heavy. And consciousness says, “Can you really argue about this? Science confirms it as well. While you are talking about some spiritual matters.” But who confirms? And through what is it confirmed? Through consciousness. And what is consciousness? Yet, to a person, it

exactly seems that consciousness is him. But is it really him? And here’s the greatest mystery and the greatest weakness of the one who is called the devil or the system. This is its weakness. Many people claim that the power of satan lies exactly in the fact that he managed to prove that he doesn’t exist. However, every person who has embarked on the Spiritual path, who has started learning all the complexities of this path, all of its simplicity and beauty, the first thing he sees is that his consciousness is not his and it doesn’t serve him.

Consciousness is the dictator; it’s a part of the system, which manipulates him and turns him as a free Personality into a slave. That’s the point. However, in order for a person to see this, he should, first of all, thirst for inner freedom. Not want, not desire, but thirst for it. It must be a need for him. And only when a person feels this need, he can navigate this path. But if he “wants” and “desires”, then all the “I want and I desire”s still come through consciousness. When he filters his entire experience of “the spiritual path”,

let’s call it so, in quotation marks, through his consciousness, Will he be able to get anywhere? Well, you also floundered in this. So, how was it? Is it possible to achieve anything through consciousness? Nothing. Because it will do everything so that you don’t advance. Why? Because, again, the laws of matter: “rule and control”, “possess, at least temporarily, but possess, it is much better than not to possess anything, Here in the material world.” Zh: Yes, and if consciousness loses its power over Personality, it will simply be unable to survive. And here’s such a moment, it’s very

important to understand it, that even after a person becomes spiritually free during his lifetime, consciousness still remains with him as a combined set with the body. But at the same time, when you really gain this inner freedom, when you really feel the Spiritual World and live by it every day, it becomes an integral part of your life. And, of course, it becomes very easy to control your consciousness. It is clear that consciousness still continues its aggression towards you as a Personality; it still tries through such patterns to impose its programs. However, Personality already understands this,

what the Truth lies in. That’s the point. It should be noted that consciousness attacks much less because this process becomes disadvantageous, unprofitable for consciousness. And when a body lives out its earthly days, then a free Personality that has already attained spiritual liberation Within the lifetime of the body simply leaves for its Native Home, it returns to the Spiritual World. While consciousness ceases to exist forever. That is why, when Personality aspires, when it feels these inner urges, when it really responds to the inner call, to the Love of the soul, to the feelings coming from the

soul, that’s exactly why, when you become spiritually free, consciousness knows about that, and it is very much afraid of the physical death of the body because this process for it, just like for the physical body, Is simply death. IM: In the literal sense, yes. This part of the system, which is called human consciousness, really ceases to exist after the death of the body of a spiritually liberated person. But it also loses power over a person, when the person becomes spiritually liberated during his lifetime, meaning, he becomes free — that’s the meaning of freedom. He is

free! That is, he controls his consciousness. Any person will say, “I control my consciousness. This is my consciousness. I do whatever I want.” We talked about this a lot. Just sit down with a pen and a piece of paper and write down everything it shows and tells you. And then read and look: was it you who wanted this? Did you order these thoughts? Did you order these desires? And why is all this happening? T: This is very good practical advice when consciousness tries to burden you with three-dimensionality; this method helps very much to get out

of a narrowed point of attention and realize who you are. I just write for myself as you said, as you advised: Everything as it is, just for myself, without exaggerations, without any statements from logic. Otherwise, as you correctly noted before, when you know that someone will read this, consciousness actively starts embellishing the text so that no one would think anything bad about you, or more precisely, about your consciousness. Meaning, there is no honesty like when you write it just for yourself, as it is said, for integrity of the experiment. So, when I honestly write down

everything That is spinning in my thoughts, and then I read it all back to myself, it is clearly visible that consciousness imposes some kind of sick animal delirium on you: a handbook of deceit, lies, and slander of your consciousness. Fragmented advertising of the egoism of consciousness, mixed with some obsessive worries, underestimation of your significance, and the same fragments from the past intermixed with fragments of everyday information. Just some kind of a mess. And in all this, plots are changed, But the essence is the same… Basically, delirium that is stereotypically repeated day after day. Just a

monkey show. And modern psychology is far from solving these problems. IM: Yes, you can try to prove from the perspective of psychology, neurophysiology, and other sciences why it is happening exactly this way, why consciousness produced something, and its pattern-based nature. After all, the entire psychology is built on patterns of consciousness, just to make it clear. They study these patterns and learn techniques of manipulation over these patterns By means of other patterns. So, once again, it’s the same stick, only with the other end. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive Zh: In everyday life in

three-dimensionality, Personality always hears its consciousness. Personality doesn’t hear its consciousness only when it is completely enslaved by consciousness. And then, for you, consciousness is supposedly who you are. T: Yes, it means, a person who is already in the state which you are now describing Is unshakably sure that he is precisely what is called consciousness. IM: Absolutely right. T: Igor Mikhailovich, here’s also such an interesting point that, in fact, the system cannot influence a person’s freedom of choice. But what does it do? IM: it distracts. T: It tries to suggest to you that… IM: It distracts.

And what is suggestion? Suggestion is an imposition. Imposition of an image, of a picture. It is stimulation of desire. Again, it’s a play on what? On selfishness, first and foremost. It’s an individualization of an individual, let's say, of an already existing one. Meaning: “It's you! You are separate. You are like, well, how come… And everything must spin for you and around you.” Well, let it spin. Yet, for how long? Time flies so fast that when you look it's already over, it has stopped spinning. What about tomorrow? But you don’t have tomorrow. That’s the point. But

it is well understood from a position when you have not only tomorrow, But you have Eternity ahead, then every day is understandable for you, that this is nothing. While for a mortal human who lives by consciousness… Again, I emphasize, a mortal one. Why mortal? Because he is indeed mortal. For him, every day is life. Consciousness clings to each day, and it tries to make it more exciting and eventful. But here some people will say, “How come exciting and eventful if I didn’t do anything?” Well, it is precisely in idleness, in whining, in apathy — That’s

exactly the wild manifestation of consciousness. A person, as they say, has a decline in strength, he’s not in a good mood, or he is depressed. What is depression, if we get down to it? Can depression exist at all? No, it cannot. What is depression? It’s a part of selfishness or one of the forms of manipulation over the person himself. Consciousness simply dictates to him, and at that time, he has extremely negative emotional feelings. T: Position of a victim… IM: Position of a victim… Where does the person invest his attention? Constantly in his resentment, in his

whining. What will happen to this person? It's like a cow that is poorly fed, but constantly milked from morning till night; every drop is squeezed out: the body hasn’t had time to generate milk, but it has already been squeezed out. These are precisely those depressive states or, on the contrary, extremely cheerful ones — it is mere manipulation. But is there anything real behind that? No. Emptiness. Meaning, if we look at the essence, it is empty. And what is real happiness, real life from the perspective, again, of spiritual life when a person comes into contact with

the Truth? It is… Again, can there be such a notion as depression? It’s ridiculous. Can there even be a bad mood? It’s ridiculous. Yes, the body may look tired or sad, but what is happening to a person inside? Zh: Yes, you live by the Spirit in there. The body is tired, but the Spirit gives rise to joy inside. IM: Why the Holy Spirit? Because it's fun with him, Holy, Holiday. The Holiday Spirit, that's what you can call it because it's always a Holiday. What can be better? Nothing. Is there anything earthly that can replace at

least one instant there? Nothing. Therefore, when a person has actually, in reality come into contact with that world, he no longer does foolish things. He’s already doing his best, even if clumsily, even through consciousness, but he’s climbing to this. When he has come into contact not with some reflection, let's say, with shadows of that state, although it's also wonderful, but when, I mean, it's already the real thing… then it's impossible to replace with anything at all. Zh: Yes, even a practical example, when you are very tired physically, maybe you didn’t get enough sleep and spent

a whole day engaged in some kind of physical exertion, and at some point, you realise that it doesn't distract you in any way from what is inside. On the contrary, you sort of intensify these feelings… IM: But that’s a problem of the body! T: You are glad that the body is busy, that the brain is busy and doesn’t prevent Personality... IM: from living. T: ...from living in the Spiritual World. Zh: You use even sickness for the benefit of your spiritual state. Well, let's suppose, the body is concerned about its health. But you understand that you

are not a body. IM: The body is concerned about health and rest, but you aren’t concerned about this. T: Yes, a rest from pridefulness and a photograph as a souvenir of your selfishness — It doesn’t bother you anymore because all this is an illusion of yesterday. IM: When Personality perceives what it has to perceive — the Spiritual World, it becomes free of these illusions. It is clear that it grows, it explores the world. But, in any case, it begins to see the world as it is. And three-dimensionality is not the most interesting dimension to explore,

let's just say, I mean for the spiritual Personality. Because actually the power of attention is already shifted in the ratio of 70% to 30% for that which does not relate to the material world. CONSCIOUSNESS DICTATES SLAVES EXECUTE BUT CAN IT BE DIFFERENT? THE CHOICE IS YOURS! IM: What has present-day science come to? Those who are interested can find all this information themselves, now there is open access to many studies, and make sure on their own that people who begin to study how consciousness works and what it is, come to an understanding that it’s not a

person who controls consciousness, but consciousness is actually something alien that manipulates and controls him. Zh: Moreover, it also draws an illusion specifically For a particular Personality. IM: Of course, surely. Zh: Thus, a person sees only 10%, while the remaining 90%, as science claims today… that the brain perceives 10%… IM: Consciousness, not the brain. Zh: Yes, consciousness… The brain perceives what consciousness gives to it, and again, to the extent of its functionality, no more. While consciousness — yes, it’s the main manipulator. Most of the information just goes past Personality. It doesn’t reach Personality at all. Zh:

That's right… By the way, another important point from the practical experience of studying consciousness: consciousness presents information to Personality already as a ready-made answer, meaning, absolutely without supporting it with facts. And it always tries to impose; it tries to palm off some kind of a ready-made conclusion on Personality. But consciousness is afraid of facts and practice. IM: Yes, that's right. Again, let’s take an actor on the stage. What do we see? The fact that he acts on the stage and plays some kind of a role. But the whole life of the actor remains off-stage… Everything

is fractally repeated in this material world… An interesting example, but we won’t mention the surname. One fellow played the role of King Solomon in theatre. He played his role so convincingly that many people admired his acting and perceived the actor as wise as King Solomon himself. While in real life, he was a banal alcoholic. So much for justice. T: The king. IM: So much for the king. But people subconsciously perceived him almost as Solomon himself. T: Yes, consciousness traps a person when he lives by material standards. And it just plays with him like a cat

with a mouse. The result of this game is already known, in fact. And everything is certainly based on human pridefulness… IM: What is also quite interesting and convincing is that consciousness is just playing with us… Many people study the brain and try to find consciousness in it. But the brain is already a consequence, not the cause. And here’s a simple example. When a person sees some kind of action in reality, if at this time we examine his brain on the MRI equipment, certain neurons are stimulated in him. And if a person simply imagines some action,

the same neurons are stimulated. That is, consciousness doesn’t distinguish one illusion from another. This is also an important point. Why? Because what happens in human consciousness is a reality for Personality. Zh: This is a very sad point because if Personality is not spiritually free, then only one reality exists for it, that which primary consciousness shows to it. IM: Absolutely right. For example, a dream. We already talked about this, that during a dream, a person feels himself as in reality. He feels both the hardness of hard material and the softness of the soft one, and he

feels water as water and fire as fire. However, this is an illusion. T: Igor Mikhailovich, there is another interesting point, but it’s already closer to the freedom of choice, that since the 1970s, experiments have been actively conducted in order to study whether a human has freedom of choice or not. And lately, an opinion has been actively promoted that the brain makes a decision before a person carries out certain actions or is aware of this decision. IM: But this is really so. A person's consciousness makes a decision much earlier than it presents the result to Personality,

and, accordingly, Personality can realise this. So, it turns out that in a dispute… for example, you and I began to argue about something, the result is already known to our consciousnesses, but we still continue arguing. They have already decided long ago who will win. And how can it be otherwise, if your consciousness, my consciousness, and the consciousnesses of everyone who will hear us if they want — it’s a part of a single whole. It's like playing chess with yourself: no matter how cunning you are, no matter how you try to deceive yourself, you will still

win, but you will also lose. T: Yes, check and checkmate… One might say, "The perfect checkmate"… IM: The paradox is that the outcome of this dispute is known in advance. It is known, but not to both disputants. They are just pawns in the game of the system. They both emit emotions, they both worry, invest the power of their attention in certain words and get hooked on certain emotions. But ultimately, the system has already predetermined the outcome of this dispute. T: Yes, and the outcome of such a game is obvious and irreversible if your attention is

in the game. IM: Yes. A person indeed has freedom of choice. But this choice is not carried out in consciousness, and definitely not in the brain. People just fail to comprehend that a human is, first and foremost, a Personality. Personality is a non-material structure. And the power of attention Which Personality actually invests as a non-material structure is in the Spirit, and not in matter. In order to become absolutely free and live happily, truly happy, and really gain freedom, you just need to invest this power of attention precisely in developing perception through feelings and to direct

it towards spiritual development. And not to invest it in unnecessary thoughts, in those illusory pictures which consciousness foists on you, and certainly not in any unnecessary emotions imposed by consciousness. You should simply economize and invest it reasonably, like funds. Then you will gain that boundless which you strive for, but only when you really, truly strive for it. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive Zh: Recently, scientists started making loud statements by publishing in mass media their assumptions about the fact that a human is presumably not only devoid of his choice, but he is also

devoid of will. This is happening for a reason… IM: In reality, a human cannot have a will. A human can be a conductor of a will. As long as he is divided, he’s not a single whole. And a part cannot have the power of the whole. That’s the point. Whereas will is a manifestation of the whole. What’s the point? A person can conduct either the will from the system, from the devil, or the will from the Spiritual World. But he, as a Personality, can choose what to accept. He does have the freedom of choice. However,

sometimes consciousness simply bewilders. A simple example. You are walking quietly, thinking about something spiritual or reading a prayer, and all of a sudden a dog barks at you from behind. What reaction will you have? Won’t you invest attention in it? Of course, you will, definitely. This is an exaggeration; I’m just explaining. T: Even now, it turns out that the consciousness of some viewers can cling to the dog and say, “You see, you don’t have a freedom of choice.” Although here, we are talking about banal three-dimensionality. IM: Unwittingly, you will be putting the power of your

attention into preservation of your body. It’s the law of preservation of life. And consciousness must react to the fact that the dog has barked at you. It’s normal, and it’s natural. The question is where you’ve been. If at this moment, you as a Personality are in a state of perceiving the Spiritual World through feelings, then anyway, your consciousness will react, you will still invest attention. But it will not bring you as a Personality back under the control of your consciousness. It’s not like in a computer game, no, not at all. Not the way they draw

a matrix or something else. It’s like an observation of the external from the inside. Or of the external from aside. Why? Because you will see it all as a whole. You will react normally, but this situation won’t be able to take you out of that state and drive you back into the slavery of consciousness if you really live by the Spiritual World. But when a person doesn’t have this experience, consciousness will tell him the opposite, that no matter how you sit in your meditation, no matter how you perform a prayer, if something happens, it will

definitely activate. Consciousness will activate, for sure. Such is its function. It has to react and maintain its existence. T: That is why it says “engage in the spiritual, but do not live by it.” IM: You can engage in sports or something else, but you should live by the spiritual. Until a person realises this, consciousness will tell him all the time, “Go do some physical exercises, go pray, do some meditation or spiritual practice.” It doesn’t matter what it will be called. And a person will engage in something, but not Live. And the difference is huge. Engaging

in something is possible by means of a physical body; this implies doing something with the help of consciousness… But you should Live by the Spirit. Zh: Yes, because the spiritual isn’t a hobby, it is the main inner need. You need it more than everything earthly taken all together. And without it, it’s simply hell, not existence. IM: Here’s exactly the main point: why does consciousness push people to engage in something spiritual? You should Live by the spiritual, not just engage in it. Why does this happen? Because consciousness doesn’t perceive the Spiritual World. It doesn’t know how

to live by the Spiritual World. Therefore, consciousness pushes people to spend their time and their power, the power of attention, first of all, on trying to become spiritual, shifting their attention from one point to another. People who are under the control of consciousness are always in a state of search: they are always searching for some religion, some magic or something else. T: …for something new. IM: Certainly. They are interested in novelty. It is this novelty that consciousness is chasing. That is, consciousness drives people to go from one cult to another, From one religious community to

another. Meaning, consciousness is constantly searching, searching for magic, first of all for itself, and secondly, for distracting people from the true path. T: And if a person lives by the spiritual? IM: If a person lives by the spiritual, then consciousness… it works, it functions, it barks like that very dog, but it doesn’t distract. T: So, the system creates conditions: situations, illusions, provocations. And all this is done to distract a person's attention from what is most important. And that situation which has been formed nowadays in the scientific community… That bottleneck, that plug in studying consciousness. In

fact, everything in this three-dimensionality is connected with consciousness: starting from a person’s thoughts and ending with confrontations and wars between people, which are designated, I emphasize this, as “a deep conflict of consciousness.” Zh: Yes, and what does this deep conflict lie in? In what Igor Mikhailovich has talked about, that consciousness, first of all, opposes the Spiritual World, any surges of Personality that strives to live by the Spiritual World inside. The system tries to do its best So that Personality doesn’t gain this inner freedom and remains in the slavery of aggression and fear. T: Yes, that’s

why the knowledge about consciousness is very important. And scientists, while studying consciousness, complain that in order to answer the question, “What is consciousness?”, they need exactly to go beyond the limits of standard scientific methods. Since the difficulties in their studies occur already at the stage of formulating the question itself, “Why does consciousness exist?” Researchers even have such a term as “the hard problem of consciousness.” Zh: Yes, there is such a thing. T: Yes, in the scientific community, this problem is an important subject of research in the modern philosophy of consciousness, in psychology, in neuroscience, and

in that very quantum physics. Scientists develop various theories of consciousness, studying the possibilities, including those of introspection, meaning, of self-observation. But the problem is that they mostly conduct theoretical research, meaning, they study by means of consciousness, so to say, “sections” of that very consciousness, and they make conclusions through their own consciousness, at the same time remaining slaves of the system, Slaves of consciousness in their lives… It has even been noted that as soon as they go deeper into the problems of consciousness, their own health gets affected and these people start getting sick. But, in fact,

consciousness itself plays the role of a universal plug in the study of the system. IM: The system is against a person being able to study the system. Meaning, people who tried to study consciousness scientifically through their own consciousness always came to a dead end. And those who came a bit closer simply lost their health, and many of them forever — Those who were too persistent, while some — just for the time they were conducting that study. A lot of researchers have gone through this. As soon as they were getting close to something interesting, the whole

group got sick, and as soon as experiments stopped — they recovered. The more persistent they became, the more severe the illnesses were manifested. This is a fact which has been recorded, and there were many of such groups, by the way. A lot of those who encountered such manifestations simply gave up their research. Why? Because metaphysics began, the inexplicable. And a lot of modern neurophysiologists, scientists in other fields, who really study consciousness, how it works, how it functions — they understand very well that they encounter some kind of paranormal, metaphysical manifestations, and they are afraid to

even talk about this. Yet, who is afraid in them? Again, that very consciousness: “What will people think about them? They will lose their scholarly status.” T: So, consciousness suggests that they invest attention in its programs of fear and doubts. IM: Yes. A lot of people lost their health, and many even lost their lives When they tried to study consciousness by means of their consciousness. This is the same as a mutiny on a ship: the ship is huge, and here a couple of sailors decided to make trouble, let’s put it this way. Naturally, they were either

suppressed or thrown overboard according to the laws of that time. T: So, the system will not allow anyone to study itself? IM: The system, naturally, will not allow anyone to study itself if consciousness and not Personality predominates in a person. The system can be studied and should be studied only from the position of Personality as a Spiritual Observer, meaning, the dominance of the Spiritual nature in a person, And not of secondary consciousness, the material nature which originates from the system or from the one who is called the devil in religions. A simple question: can the

devil show the way to paradise? Of course not. He can show a way into his cauldron, but not to paradise. The system is actually easy to study for the one who becomes a part of the Spiritual World. He doesn’t even have to study it much. Everything is clear as day; you don’t even have to strain yourself. Whereas the one who is trying to study the system While being controlled by the system itself through one’s consciousness as a part of the same system, well… this definitely won’t lead to anything good. It’s impossible. This was spoken about

one way or another at different times by wise people, those who were called the Sages of humanity, who really came to know the Spiritual World and worked hard on studying their consciousness as a part of the system. Sooner or later, they came to an understanding that they were not a part of the system, but a part of the Spiritual World. And then all secrets of this small and worthless three-dimensional world were revealed to them, The world in which there are actually no secrets at all. The biggest secret of this world is that the devil exists,

and the devil is an inseparable part of every person. And in reality, everything lies only in the choice of whom you serve. A person is unable not to serve. Even when he doesn’t do anything at all, trying not to think about anything, and not to move — he is serving the devil. Inactivity, especially in the Spiritual aspect, means serving the devil. While service to God is service to God. It is developing in oneself perception through feelings. It is what fills you with True Love And makes you Immortal. Meaning, it is Life. There cannot be any

other way. T: Yes, so it turns out that a question is only in what you live by inside yourself every day, what you fill yourself with. Either with Spirit, with gratitude, with God’s Love, or you live by pridefulness, by a thirst to possess power over someone, any power, in order to just seem, in order to be considered someone… But again, in the system. IM: The system rules in three-dimensionality. But the consciousness of every person duplicates a part of the system. The system, or the devil, always strives to become God, or at least to be considered

such. The system understands, it is aware of the fact that it is nothing, it cannot be equal and cannot possess those opportunities and abilities that the Spiritual World has. But it tries to impose at least such an impression on Personalities who listen to it. Again, through what? Through its part — through consciousness. But even this part, consciousness, being a part of the whole, Has individuality and always strives to oppose itself to everything. That is, again, this paradox is due to multiple fragmentation and division. It divides even a single whole. But still, it remains controlled by

a single consciousness or by that which we call the system. There is nothing confusing here. Here everything is well defined; everything is always in its place. The system will never let any of its parts have power over the system itself. T: So, a person who follows the spiritual path should basically realise that… IM: A person who is striving, who has an inner, true, genuine aspiration… I’ll put it this way: a person, first of all, needs to sort himself out: Does he need to follow the spiritual path? If he wants to play — let him play.

If he wants to be thought of this way — well, let them think, let them have fun. But if a person truly desires it, if this is really his choice, then he needs to understand that there is nothing simpler than the spiritual path. There is nothing closer than the Spiritual World. It is always with you; it is always near, therefore you simply need to use your attention rationally. That’s all. This is very simple. T: So, one needs to live by this instead of playing to an audience. IM: Right. If a person only says it in

words, that this is his need, he tries to feel something simply as an experiment, as some sort of a game, just so that others think of him as of a spiritual person. He spends hours in prayers or meditations together with other people, a performance for an audience is taking place. Meaning, he is trying in three-dimensionality to create an impression about himself before other people’s consciousness, a certain opinion about himself, but in reality, he doesn’t work on himself, Doesn’t live by feelings, and this can be felt very well… He is simply playing around. Tritely, he doesn't

even study how his consciousness works, how it controls him, and who pushes him to these actions. He doesn’t understand this, but simply plays such a game from the system, then naturally, he will not get anywhere, playing with an illusion. Thus, he will get lost in this illusion and, naturally, will remain there until he becomes, again, that very illusion himself. In such cases, people of this kind always have doubts and fears… Well, the usual patterns of consciousness. Regardless of the outer play for an audience, these people actually doubt everything, and first of all, they doubt God

and everything associated with the Spiritual World, that is why they are playing around. But they are urged to this by their pridefulness. While pridefulness is a part of consciousness which tightly binds Personality, figuratively speaking, hand and foot, and makes it do what is beneficial to the system. IM: The first thing is studying yourself. And everyone follows this path; it will not work otherwise. Until you understand That your consciousness actually plays evil tricks on you and shows you much of what you considered to be real, but what is actually not — well, it's just a fight

for your attention. Until you realise this, you won’t understand more. What is this world? It's just an illusion; it's the shadows of distorting mirrors of a septon. There is a certain power that generates everything, it all becomes distorted and eventually turns into a wave, this wave becomes matter, and it turns out that we are all an illusion. But you and I feel each other, ourselves, our hands, the table, and everything else. For us, this is important. Yet, who feels, how does he feel, why does he feel? And what is behind this? The thing is that

there is something different, that which created all matter and which is Life itself… After all, if we remove what is called the Holy Spirit or God's manifestation — everything will disappear. Thanks to this light inside of a septon, its mirrors reflect and create an illusion. They actually reflect the inner light, They create matter. If we take a look at what matter really is: matter is an illusion. But the denser this illusion is, the more material it becomes. And matter perceives matter as matter. Just note, even a dream… Let's take a simple thing, the work of

mind. In a dream, we feel everything as real, there is no difference to us between here and there. In rare cases, we realise that it’s a dream. But apart from that, it is all real. Again, from the perspective of an observer or a viewer, we see this theatre of actions; For us, solid is solid, material is material; we smell and taste; life passes absolutely realistically for us… the same illusion is here. How is it different? Well, I would say, it differs in its duration. And it also differs radically by the fact that in this illusion

we have an opportunity to gain Life. Joy may be different. There may be joy from consciousness, from acquisition of something, but it is fleeting. That’s why the joy of unity with the Spiritual World through feelings Doesn’t run out, it doesn’t cease and doesn’t bore. It cannot be boring. What’s the point? The point is that it is always there, and every moment is new. It’s an infinity of new sensations, of perceptions through feelings, so to say. It’s a vibrant life; it is filled with Life. A life filled with Life, you cannot call it otherwise. While in

the material world, there is a short-term illusion. If a person, having come to this world, hasn’t come out of it Alive, this means he has simply burnt his life away. That's why it is necessary to study one’s own consciousness. But there is a little phenomenon here: when a person studies his consciousness, it gets horrified, consciousness gets horrified. Whereas, when Personality realises that it is Personality, it experiences incredible happiness. Why does this happen? Because at these moments, each of them comes into contact with the one who created them. Meaning, when a person becomes a participant of

these illusory games of consciousness, Then both doubts and fears will be present in himself. Doubts, fears — all of this always comes from consciousness. After all, consciousness doesn’t perceive the spiritual. Why is it attracted to magic? This is what exceeds the limits of consciousness’ understanding: “here it manifested itself, this way it happened” and so on. Real magic manifests itself in a completely different way, and it is practically unnoticeable to consciousness. And consciousness perceives it as natural processes. That’s the real magic. But it’s not worth paying attention to it either. While fears and doubts — all

this is from the mind, From consciousness, it must doubt. But you don’t live by it, live by the spiritual, and that’s it. When a person starts living by the spiritual, then literally all fears, which are in the material world, disappear. Why? Because you perfectly understand that it’s an illusion. After all, you don’t worry… Let’s say, you got up in the morning if you had a dream… Let’s say, a person had a dream… He wakes up in the morning and worries about this dream until he gets distracted. Once distracted, the dream has lost its value. The

same is with life here. All this existence is just a temporary illusion that passes very quickly. We can talk a lot about this, but in reality, this is comprehended only when you start living. The system very actively advertises among people this very attractiveness of magic, of course, based on its own interests. However, many people, being under the influence of their consciousness, treat this very carelessly. They simply don’t understand the entire destructiveness of magic, its severe consequences for them. Because this is a direct way to subpersonality. This is nourishment for the system. People simply don’t understand

that even the very temptation to possess Or desire it is just a direct way to hell. You have correctly noted, even a desire to possess magic abilities is already far from the spiritual. Why? Because a desire to possess magic abilities is already a secret desire to wield power, and only consciousness always strives to wield power. Well, let’s say, the system through consciousness. And it arranges everything in order to have power over other people, meaning, over their consciousness. And it does everything in order to gain this power more and more, that’s why it craves. The system

always strives, especially for spiritual mysteries. What for? In order to at least prolong its existence. It is not for gaining eternal life, although the system strives for it and craves it because it comprehends the transience of time. After all, the system is very smart, it perceives itself as 'I’, therefore it contrasts itself to God. But notice, many people ask the question: “Why does the system… after all, as a rational being, it understands that it is mortal, yet why does it continue to impose itself and contrast itself to God instead of going for reconciliation or something

else and preserving life?” Well, first of all, it’s an antipode, the system can never come to reconciliation because it is created for this. That’s number one. And secondly, how do people act? You see, having acquired at least some kind of skill or even a little bit of power, a person continues to position himself and tell… exalt himself over others. For instance, we know many people in the Movement who, let’s say, cannot even do autogenic training, but they run around and tell other people that they are already “bodhisattvas” and the like. Why? Because it’s important for

them to have other people think about them like that, consider them in such a way. The system acts absolutely in the same manner. It foists on Personality a perception of itself as God. And it creates, it shows, it cures diseases, it can even break all the laws formed by itself, and manifest various metaphysical phenomena. But what for? In order to seem in the eyes of even such a useless being as a human, compared to the system, to seem like God. After all, people act in exactly the same way. Here’s precisely a fractal repetition of the

small from the big. It’s interesting how stereotypically consciousness acts. Right now, Igor Mikhailovich, you’ve mentioned people who exalt themselves over others, but meanwhile they don’t work on themselves. And consciousness immediately focuses a person's attention on some specific people whom they know in their city or in their country. But other people, for example, who live in other countries, don’t know about these people. This way, it draws their illusion for everyone from their own pridefulness and some local opposition, furthermore made up by their own consciousness. Meaning, for one person it is Petya, for another one it is

Wang, and for the third one, it will be, for instance, John. Consciousness slips in its ready-made answer from pridefulness to everyone, that’s what Zhanna spoke about. However, if you get out of the state of narrowed consciousness, you already see the situation on a global scale, where there is no room for your pridefulness. And the situation consists in the fact that you understand how the system in general stereotypically acts throughout centuries. In such a way, through people’s wants from pridefulness, through desire for power, it takes root in the introduced Teachings, in what is a single whole

from the Spiritual World. And the system divides all this, divides the single whole into a multitude and turns it into trends under its control, religions with their authorities, with their use of commas and the same thirst for power. Just as you’ve said, everything is fractally repeated. Meaning, what’s the difference which people do that?! At this moment, they simply serve the whims of their consciousness, meaning, execute the system’s will. But where are you at this moment? Today, the system has some guides, tomorrow — others, those who really crave power and call themselves, for example, saints In

any case, they very much want other people to consider them to be such. However, on a global scale, the point is not in specific people, but in the system, in the way it acts. When you know about this, you already understand and pay attention to your own consciousness, to your own reactions. Are you in the external? In conflict? In separation? Is consciousness drawing another enemy for you? Or do you feel the Truth, see manifestations of the system on a global scale and don’t give in to its provocations? You just ask yourself a question: whom are

you serving right now? Where is your attention right now? Do you feel the Spiritual World in yourself? What are you now cultivating in yourself? So, when consciousness dominates in you, what is cultivated in you at this moment? Exactly pridefulness, megalomania, and thirst for power are cultivated. And it turns out that you just put the power of your attention into these games of consciousness. Moreover, it makes everyone obsessed with his own game. One — with the fanaticism of some religion, another one — with magic, the third one who totally denies both religion and magic Becomes obsessed

with science, for example, and so on. Satan is cunning: if you don't want God and don't want magic — here's science for you. Is it not a distraction? The main point is that you invest your attention in the material and temporary. And as long as you are exploited, satan is alive. When he raises you as an egoist, with a sense of pridefulness and superiority, then the more pride is in you, the more you are a slave. However you slice it, but it is so. The more you exalt yourself in your thoughts And consider yourself superior

to everyone, the lower you become than everyone, because you really become a slave who is manipulated and controlled by satan. When you criticize someone, you are a slave. Well, that’s natural. Yes. And so, people's consciousnesses constantly criticize each other for some kind of external choice, for another external separation. People spend so much energy and nerves quarreling, trying to prove something to someone for half of their lives. As a result, time passes, things change on the outside, One’s body ages, and opportunities are lost. People feel at this moment that in fact, it’s again deception, again disappointment.

As a result, it’s empty inside, and people are unhappy. Absolutely right. While everything is actually simple — do not serve the system. In fact, human consciousness, no matter how much we exalt it, it is very primitive. Well, if we compare it to modern technology, it's like the first Pentium processor. It’s just that it has a self-association with some sort of freedom or a self-identification. It was given a bit of freedom and the right to choose — and that's all, it starts being aggressive. However, it's an imaginary right of choice. In reality, consciousness doesn’t choose anything;

these are all written programs. It is Personality that chooses from the programs which consciousness slips in to it. But it slips these programs to Personality, again, in a patterned way, according to a list, so to say. Everything is so banal and simple, nothing new. Indeed, one and the same thing from century to century. The same thoughts in the consciousness of a human, that tempt him, that manipulate him. And there are so many examples in literature, especially in religious literature, when the same phenomena were simply called by different names. In that very Zoroastrianism they were simply

called devas, in Islam these same phenomena were called djinns, and in Christianity — evil spirits or “demons of passion, pridefulness, and desires.” “Demons” — that's what they were called before. Now we can speak another language — the language of information technology. We can call it programs. Why? Again, consciousness is actually a field structure. This is closer to understanding and easier for a modern person to understand. It’s a field structure, written programs which get into our consciousness, get opened like in a computer, and start working. So, we look at them, let's say, focus our attention or

invest the power of our attention. We perform an action, we activate this program, and it starts working, that's it. But imagine, how it could be explained to people before: Devas — some invisible creatures that come and tempt you. Well, again, these are just words. Time will pass, it will be called differently. The point is that nothing changes, the essence which remains is this: you are not the one who controls this process, you are being controlled. And there is no difference whether it’s by means of some kind of a virus program or by means of some

kind of a deva who tempts you. The main thing is that you are tempted, and if you are tempted, then you are a slave. But having the knowledge, it is possible to live differently. You should live differently. In general, in order to Live, you need to act differently. Consciousness must obey. Nothing changes because of this. You see, again we come back to what many people don’t understand: "How am I going to control consciousness? How will I be able to drive a car? Should I not think, or what?" No, you can still drive a car and

so on. Life simply becomes more beautiful and interesting because life begins there, in the Spiritual World, while you are still in the body, whereas consciousness becomes easily manageable and controllable. It's like a computer. Let's say, you have become smarter, but your computer is old. Protection programs are outdated. And still, all sorts of viruses, all sorts of programs that you don’t want, get into it. But it’s a computer, it’s not necessary for you to activate what it shows, right? For example, some picture appeared that tempts you. You know perfectly well: if you activate it, the computer

will now freeze for a long time. So why do you need to open it? You close it, put it away, and go back to work. Everything is easy and simple. This is also an interesting point: it turns out that Personality has this freedom of choice which the system cannot actually affect. But lately, an action of the system has been observed in what? In the fact that it simply suggests that a person believes that he doesn’t have this freedom of choice. Well, yes, and we’ve just voiced a clear example of scientific experiments and conclusions that consciousness

makes a decision much earlier than a person announces it. And this statement of scientists is now very actively promoted in mass media. Well, and what conclusions will the consciousness of an average person make? What kind of thoughts will arise in him in general when he is presented with such one-sided information from the system, when the essence is not explained? T: A thought arose… That you are a slave and you have no way out. As a matter of fact, indeed, let's observe, when did this process begin? Very recently, it was claimed that the Spiritual World doesn’t

exist and it is just a relic of the past, just a rudiment of consciousness from past delusions. The system really began to somehow intensively alienate people From comprehension of the Spiritual World. What was it talking about in people's consciousness in the recent centuries? It turns out that people were arguing within the framework of the worldview of the Animal mind system: "Matter is primary, while consciousness is secondary, or is it vice versa?" Matter always seeks to dominate and impose its primacy, especially over the Spiritual World. It suggests, or rather, puts in people's consciousness that matter forms

everything in this world, and the whole world consists solely of matter. Yes, and we can say that a textbook on philosophy in any institution of higher education begins exactly with this, That supposedly "matter forms the unity of the world." With all this high-flown philosophy from consciousness: materialism, idealism, and the like. But, having passed the course of studies, people, as a rule, still don't understand this whole philosophy because it comes from the mind. It just tries to touch upon spiritual matters. But why does it happen this way? Because an ordinary game of the system is going

on. From consciousness, simple things become much more complicated, the significance of what is empty is inflated, and complexity of perception appears in people. Because those who wrote this philosophy to the dictation of consciousness simply did not have an understanding of the essence of the spiritual. That's why there are endless discourses “about the main point” instead of practice, and that's exactly why simple things become complicated. But this is not because people are bad. It’s just the way the system tries to instill in a person’s understanding that matter is supposedly primary. Instead of evolving spiritually, a person

just endlessly discusses this with those lofty categories. It turns out to be such a game from the system: "What will you believe in? In dialectical materialism or idealism?" For subsequent generations, it will invent something else. Well, of course! That is its function to invent everything new… Yet, in all this, it will compare itself with the Spiritual World. But it turns out that its modus operandi is very stereotypical and recognizable. For example, as here: in both cases, the system was promoting itself, simply appropriating the qualities of the Spiritual World. That's what you have said, that the

system always seeks to become God for a human. And here’s such a simple example, while the qualities of the Spiritual World are that It is eternal And infinite, in materialism, the system imposes the same thing about itself, it says the same thing about matter which is actually both mortal and finite. And the system claims that supposedly in the world "there is nothing except different states of matter" and that "it is matter which forms the unity of the whole picture of the world." But in actual fact, since time immemorial, people knew that God is one and

that the source of everything is the Spiritual World. Yes, the system sort of promotes itself through this; it devours attention by twisting information from the Spiritual Source, meaning, it's like a mockingbird. However, all these twists that come from the system are very much felt. And they are felt as empty because when you really practise in spiritual development, then you definitely feel. You know where the real thing comes from the spiritual, and where it is just something empty from the system. Yes. Or here’s another example, that the one who is living by the Spiritual World understands

that the initial stage of getting to know the Spiritual World is perception through feelings, perception through the deepest feelings. The system very primitively alters it to itself; it ties more to physical sensations. Like, “after perception through feelings, There will be some sort of a higher level for you”… from the system — some level of “abstract logical thinking” instead of perception through the deepest feelings, which consciousness simply doesn’t understand. And the same thing happens when looking at perception of the world from the system, but already through the prism of idealism, where an active role of consciousness

is actually emphasized, and it is asserted that consciousness designs the world, just some mysticism of consciousness is added, actually just magic. The system always has two extremes, like on the swings: either iron logic from pridefulness, Or panic fear and mysticism from a lack of knowledge. This is normal… Yes, and so the system tries to draw some parallels comparing itself to the Spirit. Yet again, what is the emphasis put on? On consciousness, on logic. For example, it says that “human consciousness develops by overcoming the bodily shell as a self-exploration of the absolute spirit.” The key point

here is that it is human consciousness, but not Personality as a Spirit. The entire idealism is built, one might say, on a new version of reasoning for contemporaries, but on the basis Of consciousness of the philosophers of ancient Greeks, Romans, exactly those whom you mentioned at the beginning of the video, who had been searching for magic and not for the spiritual path. For the system, the highest spiritual is always magic because the system is limited in this understanding. While the way into spiritual knowledge is certainly closed for it. And here, as you have noted correctly,

it’s impossible to get to know the Spiritual World in practice through consciousness, through empty talks in the head. Because it is possible, of course, only through the deepest perception through feelings. But when you know these spiritual keys, you begin to understand Already what the trick from the system is hidden in. All of the confusion and complexity is simply a sign of the work of consciousness, these are games of the system. While there is no spiritual, real practical knowledge here at all. Because the spiritual path is always simple, while consciousness always has a highly complex and

empty talk… …a principle of the work of the system, of consciousness. And now, returning to science, it simply becomes clear where such directives come from — from the system. If you go into science, you have to agree, at the level of your consciousness’s worldview, Precisely with the political directive of the past centuries — with materialism — with the fact that “consciousness is a function of the brain, a reflection of the objective world.” Otherwise, already starting from the 19th century, it became so and it is this way now, that nobody will let you into science with

a different worldview. Why has such a political directive appeared at all? First of all, such a political directive has appeared because in the 19th century people came very close to such a notion as aether. Aether on its own gave infinite free energy which could have provided people with necessary energy In any amount absolutely free of charge. But this in no way was in the interest of powerful people of this world. Because what to earn money from and how to hold people? This is one side. And the other side is that the very proof of the

existence of something non-material which creates matter, which gives energy — it is very close to the Spiritual World. Such a parallel. This is what caused tension and fear among the powerful people of this world, therefore they have imposed a total ban on this topic. It is natural that the world’s elite, of course, quickly closed it all down And gave system-related political directives which took the civilization into such a maze of materialism that it is still hard to get out of there. And, of course, as a result, it affected science, people’s welfare, spiritual development, and other

factors. Here, on the one hand, one could say, how can such events influence spiritual development? It would seem, what does free energy have to do with spiritual development? After all, in reality, nothing prevents a person from developing spiritually. But again, what do we come up against? We come up against consciousness. Just imagine a simple example, when science develops to such an extent in the field of physics That it proves that there exists Something transcendental, which creates this world, which gives this energy to the world. And it turns out that the structure of our universe is

completely different from what we were taught in schools or universities. It is much more complex, and behind it there stands that which people call the Spiritual World. And consciousness cannot contradict this point because it is true. Would this affect spiritual development? Of course, it would drastically affect it. It would bring all people closer to the understanding that the Spiritual World, the world of God, exists. And if this is so, then this already excludes any doubts in consciousness, Because the existence of the Spiritual World would have been proven by science. It’s natural that people would have

started to live by spiritual laws, by other laws, they would have gained spiritual freedom. And then, no matter who would tell them anything, how can such a society be controlled, a society which is striving for the Spiritual World? Could such people be pushed into a competition of enrichment, hoarding or something else? No, they couldn’t be. Or develop hatred of some people towards others, to impose on them a thought about personal superiority over others when all are equal before God? This would not have worked. Naturally, this has caused a lot of questions and fears among the

so-called elite. That’s why we still use hydrocarbons… That’s why, as of today, those who call themselves “scientists”, are afraid to even say a word on this topic and pretend that this doesn’t exist. Such is the system. So, assertions and directives from the system come again. Now it is simply not surprising why in scientific circles scientists-atheists, who have already seen a lot, are trying hard to speak about their material views. The only question is whether they are theirs. So zealously they hold the ground of that very materialism and defend consciousness: that consciousness existed, that it was

formed due to evolutionary growth, that everything is material, and everything occurs in the mind, and so on. While others, who are younger, just repeat after them without understanding the actual reason for the emergence of such, so to say, “scientific view” in quotation marks. Because the system acts preemptively in people’s consciousness and unfortunately, so far, it's not losing its positions. Absolutely right. Let’s face the truth. The Knowledge began to disseminate a little bit. And many people started talking about something different. And here, as it is said, with a wave of a magic wand, one fine day,

thoughts started coming into the heads of people engaged in studying neurophysiology, psychology and the like: “How does our consciousness work? And why does this happen?” And here, note that satan always has everything in counterbalance. The Knowledge has come — a justification has come. But justification has come in something different. It turns out to be such a justification from the system with its substitutions in response to the spiritual surge and the Knowledge that has come to this world. Yes. So, a person who now begins to use what we spoke about, The process of observing oneself, will

see that thoughts come. But those who run ahead of us, those very “devas” or programs that work, they have already explained to him that: ”There is no way out. Yes, thoughts come before you think. Yes, you don’t control them.” Some scientists have encountered this phenomenon, have started to study it, and they say, “No, we will not go further because it smells like metaphysics and something totally beyond the bounds. Well, this cannot be.” And they even refuse to study it further. But, nevertheless, they confirm that: “Yes, there is such a phenomenon; it turns out that a

human is controllable. But you cannot change anything because it turns out that you don’t have any will, you execute someone’s will that comes from the outside.” We can say that scientists simply begin to have fear, a fear to study further, a fear of losing their consciousness. As if there is a lack of understanding that a person will not part with his consciousness till the end of his life. The only question is whether consciousness controls you or you as Personality become free from the power of consciousness. Yes, it turns out, that consciousness simply fails to mention

That the freedom of Personality is Life in Spirit. Because it is exactly Life in Spirit that is incomprehensible for consciousness, but for a spiritually evolving Personality, Life in Spirit is natural. Of course. Well, you see again how interesting and symmetrical it all works, it even runs a bit ahead. As soon as the Knowledge was introduced and everything just started to develop — right away activities in this direction began. Yet, why was it not before? Why was it not talked about before? Although, in religions of the past all of this was discussed. And the Prophets talked

about this. It is interesting… Yes, but did people hear them? To be even more precise, who in them heard and reacted? After all, consciousness, it all is built on pridefulness, for it, everything is separated, very fractional, and irreconcilable. Yes. And, unfortunately, this is how consciousness of the slaves of the system fragments the Knowledge — the spiritual Knowledge that has been introduced — and interprets it in its own way; how people's consciousness begins to alter this Knowledge?! Indeed, we can observe this now; This is happening literally before our eyes. And what controlling lever does the system

use in people's heads? Pridefulness. And the slaves of the system do not notice this because the veil of pridefulness and their own importance is in their eyes. Yes. And now there is an understanding why the system… when spiritual knowledge is introduced, why consciousness simply begins to tighten its screws both in religion and in science. Apparently, to turn people against each other later, based on this. And here's a good example of this: let's take a science such as primatology, Meaning, the science of studying monkeys. After all, if we read the history of its formation, all these

difficulties that it faced and, moreover, difficulties most of which are related precisely to the psychological perception by society of the results of studying and researching the biology of apes and humans, and comparison of these data, it simply becomes clear why it happened this way; why people were so afraid of any identification of themselves with primates and hindered the development of this science. Well, and of course, the religious aspect played an important part here. And to this day, there are quarrels about this. All this is because in society, unfortunately, The keys to spiritual knowledge have already

been lost and there is an incomprehension by people of themselves, an incomprehension of their dual nature. Well, on the example of primatology, we can clearly understand how the system created a big problem out of nothing by means of interpretation from consciousness, and it set people who study this science and people who study religion to be at odds with each other. Absolutely right. Very few people know about this because few people take an interest in it. But, in actual fact, the development of a human child and a monkey, up to a certain period, is absolutely identical.

There are interesting studies on this subject. Yes. This is really so. This fact was actually recorded by scientists, although the reason for this remains unknown to them, at least until the release of this video. But then people from different religious organizations started to resent the scientists: "Wait, how is that?! And what about faith? After all, it is said in the Bible that God created man in His image and likeness." Yet, what can scientists answer if they are also just ordinary people who study matter with their consciousness? They can only operate with facts and hypotheses. And

then, on top of that, scientists have discovered in a chimpanzee precisely an ability to communicate verbally. This also brought down a flurry of criticism on these experiments due to, so to say, another “religious trauma.” So, basically, the scythe clashed on stone*. And aggression towards each other began because consciousness reigns in people's heads. Consciousness has confused and embittered people against each other to such an extent, caught them on pridefulness, On fear, on ignorance… and even on terminology. Here, even the word preemates (primates), which in Latin means “preeminent”, “first”, and by which scientists named a group of

the most highly organized animals in biology. It turns out that this term was used in the church hierarchy. And it is no accident that in 2006, one of the ancient grand titles of the Pope, under the general title “Patriarch of the West” was officially removed from the papal titulature. In deciphering this title, there are a number of names including the title Primatus Italiae. This title indicates that the bishop of Rome is “the first among equals” among Italian bishops. Consciousness is just making fun of people. It narrows people's perception to the point of conflict. Well, in

general, if we simply look at what is happening around the world: here, titles are removed, overseas — they argue and organize “monkey trials” in opposition to hypotheses, meaning, to fabrications of consciousness. While in India, they even created the cult of Hanuman — god of monkeys, god of physical strength and magic, and they honour him as a teacher of sciences. At that, it is one of the most popular gods in Hinduism, And there are a large number of temples dedicated to him as well as altars with his image. Well, you see how consciousness works. Yes, consciousness

makes trouble. After all, it doesn’t understand the spiritual and distorts its essence all the time. Absolutely right. People simply lack understanding and reconciliation. If they all knew the answer to the question of what it really means that God created a human in His image and likeness, what the dual nature of a human is, how consciousness sets us up, and why a monkey lives in each of us… If they knew the answers to these questions, there would be no questions either for religion or for science which only studies matter and nothing more. As for primatology, it's

true that you cannot argue with facts from biology of the animal world. They even, on the contrary, open one's eyes to how consciousness works, how the system works in a standard way. And in actual fact, as you, Igor Mikhailovich, told us before, based on examples from zoology, from those very disciplines as primatology and ethology, by studying observations of the behaviour of animals, including humans, we can understand these schemes, These primitive patterns of the system, the way it works. And of course, frankly speaking, when I first encountered the study of this issue, for myself it was

like a tub of cold water poured over my head. Because it turns out that a person thinks that he is a body, that he is thoughts, he is emotions. He is proud of that. But, when faced with primatology, you understand that it is exactly the monkey nature in you that believes so. Until the eighth day, a human is no different from an animal. A chimpanzee also has quite a well-developed Primary consciousness. The analogy is very close. And children of an ape and a human up to three years of age, up to five years old, develop

practically in the same way. But then, a human begins to break away sharply. Why does this happen? Precisely because on the eighth day after birth, a human, like a vessel, is filled with a human Soul, and the Soul creates Personality. The Soul and Personality are precisely the spiritual components of a human. And why did a human become a Human, and why was he created in the image and likeness? Because a part from the Spiritual World was in him. Personality is exactly what a Human is in reality. It is who you are. Igor Mikhailovich, people write

a lot of letters exactly on the subject of how to control consciousness in daily life. When a person poses the question: "How can I control my consciousness during the day?" — this question comes from consciousness. That is, it can perform for you… The actors on stage will control each other, act, and tell you that everything is fine. When a person gains a little bit of a certain degree of freedom from consciousness, he realises that Personality doesn’t need power over consciousness. An understanding comes that this is different. It’s your computer, and when you leave, you won’t

take it with you because it is old, big, and inconvenient. You don’t need it. For Personality, it's actually important to get out from under its influence, from its power, but not rule over it. Right? Absolutely right. The first victory is to get out from under its control and to correctly distribute what we call attention. And in this case, attention works like a sugar cube in a circus or some other yummy treat when a bear rides a bicycle. Why does a bear ride a bicycle? He wants to eat. The same with consciousness: It starts working for

Personality when needed because consciousness wants to eat. While sugar for it is our attention. Igor Mikhailovich, another question is that… And there is also an interesting thing. It is clear that, no matter how our sound engineers clean our recording later, a lot of noise will remain. You’ve noticed this, haven’t you? No matter how many times we record these videos, as soon as we touch on such obvious secrets of the system, nature immediately begins to rage: Everything gets noisy, everything crashes. It's not enough that the light was turned off, there is also all this noise: from

dogs to everything else. How interesting… It's interesting that consciousness really, let’s say, resists and does not allow the study of itself… Being inside the system, it's impossible to study the system. You must go beyond its limits; then you will study it. FREEDOM OF PERSONALITY IS LIFE IN SPIRIT T: Igor Mikhailovich, this Knowledge which you revealed about the system, the Knowledge from the Observer outside the system — it is of great value. And in view of this, one realizes how the system Draws the attention of the human civilization to its labyrinths, moving humanity further and further

away from the main purpose of existence — from spiritual development. There is a simple example from the aforementioned primatology when people, believing that the most valuable qualities in them are mind and intellect, without figuring out the nature of the origin of their own thoughts, tried to teach a monkey to think. But it hasn’t advanced further than the nature of a primate, meaning, primitive intelligence. Yet, now attempts are being made to teach a machine to think, meaning, to create such a self-learning artificial intelligence, such a mind, Which would imitate the mental processes of a human and

simulate intellectual behaviour, we can say, it would even surpass a human. Some scientists pin high hopes on that time when it will be created. Whether it is good or bad — everything certainly depends on what will predominate in society: either the spiritual component of people or as it is now — algorithms of the Animal mind system in people’s heads. IM: If you want to know what the system is thinking about, look closely at what you are thinking about. Everything is simple. Zh: Just be honest with yourself. IM: That’s right. For instance, they say, “Artificial intelligence,

artificial intelligence…” But what is our consciousness? Our consciousness is exactly that very artificial intelligence. What our scientists strive for has already been created long ago. Why is our intelligence artificial? Because this world didn’t exactly originate the way, for example, modern astrophysics tells us: that it originated from a point, the Big Bang occurred, matter was formed, and so on. In actual fact, everything is much simpler and more complicated. It is more complicated for modern science to understand. But it is simpler because, in reality, everything is simpler. T: Yes, modern astrophysics as well as, by the way,

physics, are, as people say, at a great impasse, I mean they are more at the stage of questions than answers. And there are a lot of unsolved, so-called “great problems”: starting from cosmology of the early Universe, expansion of the Universe, those very problems of entropy increment, irreversibility and the “arrow of time”, and ending with the issues of different interpretations and incomprehension of many processes of quantum mechanics. For example, until now there is still no answer to the notorious question: “Where will an electron be?” Well, and, of course, the list of “the great problems” of physics

Includes a question about the connection between physics and biology, the so-called reductionism problem, meaning, reduction of the laws of biology to the set of laws of physics. Generally, in human consciousness, there is a desire to explain life and the origin of life on the basis of precise formulas of physics. And here it is interesting what specific main questions are highlighted — these are the questions about the origin of life and the emergence of consciousness. And all this leads to the ideas of creating “artificial intelligence” and creating “life in vitro”. So, there are more than enough

questions in both physics and astrophysics. But the answers to them are extremely scant At this stage of scientific advancement. IM: Absolutely right. If we have touched upon the topic of astrophysics, then I cannot but say that scientists, while studying the cosmic microwave background, which appeared, as they assume, after the Big Bang, already come to such conclusions and suggest the hypotheses that our Universe is holographic, that this world might be one big hologram. And that our three-dimensional vision, that which people call “reality”, in actual fact, is just an illusion. Why? Because all thoughts, information, those pictures

which are considered to be perceived by the brain of our body, Although in fact, as we already mentioned, it’s not the brain, but consciousness — it perceives all these thoughts in two-dimensionality. Meaning, all the pictures which are in our heads are two-dimensional. And only when Personality pays attention to them or gives them the power of its attention, or as it was said before — it focuses on something, then they are perceived by consciousness as three-dimensional ones. Thus, if any person traces how thoughts come to him, in reality, from the position of Primary consciousness, he will

see that there are no thoughts as such in words or in something else. It is only when there is a dialogue, When, as we already said, actors are spinning in our head, then both words and disputes go on in our head. But, in general, pictures come to us: one picture replaces another, or like on a computer screen, there can be even a great number of them — one interrupts another. But they are two-dimensional. It’s enough to pay attention, to invest the power of one’s attention — it is as if we hovered a cursor, let’s say,

and opened, meaning, activated some picture, and it immediately acquires a three-dimensional form in our head. T: In all of this lies the main answer to questions of those very neurobiologists, Mathematicians, and physicists, actually, all those who study these questions: ”How does a thought arise and work? Why is there no difference for the brain between reality and fantasy? Why do we live as if in a computer simulation and in this particular perception of time and space?” There are questions about two-dimensionality, about three-dimensionality… Zh: …And why in our everyday three-dimensional perception, there arises such a, let’s say,

“blindness to global changes” which the system makes in a person? After all, it basically deceives him And redirects his life forces to its own nourishment… T: Meaning, in all this, there is also a basis for understanding why thought is material. IM: The question is in something else. This whole world is illusory; it is really illusory. When we perceive with our consciousness that which we see as solid, in fact, we already talked about it more than once, delving deeper, we see a huge distance between atoms, and atoms also consist of smaller particles. And everything is not

that solid. But when we touch it, for example, that very stone or the table — it is solid to us. Our consciousness perceives it as a hard, solid object. It is solid, but in three-dimensionality. If we consider it from a position of the higher, seventh dimension, but only Personality can do that, consciousness already cannot do that, but we will also talk about this a bit more, then it turns out that a table doesn’t exist at all. Why? Because Personality is a Spirit, it’s not a body. While consciousness is a part tied to a material body,

and it can perceive matter only as matter. For consciousness, even the idea of what “Personality” is, “Personality as a Spirit” or “a Human is actually a Spirit” is not perceived by consciousness. Consciousness cannot logically explain it. It can compare: here is a cup standing on a table, and the table is solid, this is ceramics, this is wood, here consciousness has a comparison. But it cannot compare what it doesn’t know. Because of this, there was a great deal of incomprehension among people about what the Spiritual World is, hence there are many different interpretations and lots of

distortions on this subject. For example, about the creation of that very human. If we take the Bible… To this day, the Bible is interpreted in different ways. Meaning, it turns out that, if we proceed from the canons of the Bible, God created a human twice. Well, and this is where confusion arises; we will talk about this too. T: Yes, the first chapter of the Book of Genesis presents surprises! Zh: Yes, great ones! T: Igor Mikhailovich, why does the system, as of today, begin to gradually reveal some secret pages of information about its microworld in this

three-dimensionality? And why do people come across a two-dimensional phenomenon, or a three-dimensional one, and the like? IM: In reality, it doesn’t reveal anything. All this has always been known. If we look carefully at ancient religions, today we recalled Zoroastrianism, These understandings about the nature of that very thought, about typical programs of the system, and about the true nature of a human appear even there. Well, we already talked about this topic once. T: Yes, indeed, there are a lot of interesting points in Zoroastrian texts, which you told us about earlier. For example, it specifically indicates that

Ahriman, or satan in Christianity, is "concentration on evil thoughts, utterance of evil words, performance of some evil deeds, religion of witchcraft, engagement in heresy, the path of deception"… Zh: …And evil thoughts are called evil spirits, namely Ahriman's helpers — the devas. IM: Yes, and the key point here is precisely concentration of a person's attention on an evil thought, meaning, nourishment of the system, a person's conscious choice towards the Animal nature. T: There are also mentions that Ahriman attacks God’s creations like an annoying fly. But in fact, thoughts that are spinning in a person’s head throughout

the day are really like a swarm of flies; when you don’t want to listen to them, yet they are buzzing persistently. IM: Well, of course, because it's a program like that very advertising on the Internet. And basically, where was advertising itself copied from? From the patterns of consciousness. Everything is fractal… T: It is interesting that Zoroastrianism also describes attributes of the system, that very enemy of a human which is hidden in the form of consciousness… Ahriman doesn’t want people to recognise him, otherwise they simply won't follow him. And so he tries, in every way possible,

to hide his true intentions from them; he feeds on human irritability, communicates with spiteful and vindictive people. And most often, he deceives people precisely with doubts and greed. He sends blindness, deafness and enmity down on them. IM: Yes, spiritual blindness and deafness — this is what we observe everywhere in modern civilization. T: His purpose is clearly indicated: that Ahriman's goal is to cause a quarrel between people and Ormazd, meaning, the God of Good in Zoroastrianism, and to make them his friends. Basically, intrigues of the Animal mind system are listed. Zh: …There are some interesting points

there which indicate that at one time this religion, next among others, was formed out of remnants of the teaching about the Spiritual World. T: Absolutely right. And there are echoes of such knowledge as the endless time that existed from the beginning, in Zoroastrianism, it is called zurvan; knowledge about the existence of the Spiritual World, Which was referred to as menog, meaning, that which in translation meant “invisible”, literally “spiritual”; the knowledge that God dwells in the realm of “infinite light”, that He is All-Seeing, that He is All-Knowing. And also about the fact that God created a

human twice, about the spiritual search, about the after-death fate, about the Judgement on the Chinvat Bridge, and a lot of other information. Meanwhile, Zoroastrianism is the first millennium BC, and it’s already an updated copy of the old teachings because this religion was formed from more ancient teachings and religions of Indo-Iranians and Aryans. Zh: Everything is there, only the keys of spiritual understanding have been lost. Consciousness has erased for people the most important things with time, translations, and certainly interpretations from the mind. T: So, all this knowledge has existed since ancient times. Seek and you shall

find. IM: Absolutely right. There is a reality that is beyond the limits of matter, and there is a temporary world filled with illusions. But here again arises perception from consciousness, when people perceive this world by means of consciousness, they start having such confusion, non-perception, a lack of understanding that consciousness, For example, can be mortal, while a human is immortal, meaning, as Personality. "Well, how is that if I'm consciousness," if a person associates himself with consciousness, hence "consciousness must be immortal". And from here, there are many such interpretations. This paradox surely drives many into a religious

dead end when people cannot explain it to themselves with the help of their consciousness. But this pushes them to different ways of searching for paths to the Spiritual World. They feel this need from the inside, But they rely on a broken crutch — on consciousness. They accumulate various tools from different religions, from different sects and different interpretations, but they turn out to be sitting and waiting like the Awaiter [Homunculus loxodontus]. They do know and inwardly strive for God, but their consciousness keeps them idle. And it tells them, "You already know everything, where are you to

go, human? You already know everything, after all: you’ve already learnt both the Bible and the Qur’an, and many many other things, and Buddhism, and the Vedas, you have learned everything; you even know the Kabbalah by heart. You are already an enlightened, spiritualized person; you can argue with any imam and convince him that you are right and where the comma should properly be". The whole trick is in this. You know where it should be, you communicate with yourself on this subject and with others, only you are not any closer to God even by a millimetre. Why?

Because empty talk is going on. T: Yes, it turns out that the system produces only knowledge theorists, and not practitioners. IM: Why does such a paradoxical situation arise: people talk a lot about God and really strive for God, but they talk and then don’t do anything? Because the system is set up this way. Just now, we have touched on artificial intelligence, and there is such an illustrative example. Fellows have conducted an experiment. They took bots… Bots are artificial intelligence, it is something that communicates with people sometimes via the computer, and some people think that those

are also humans. They accumulate intellect and answer certain questions in a stereotypical manner. So, they took two bots… People can find this example on the Internet and watch, it's quite interesting. Two bots that had been communicating with people for many years, they had a million conversations each. So, these bots smartened up and became so clever and enlightened, almost like people. And when they were brought together for the sake of an experiment — what will the two bots talk about, so they talked for a while as usual, as people who are not well acquainted, and then

one bot suggested to the other bot: "Let's talk about God". And here’s the key point. For many, this can slip by as self-evident. But here, there is a little clue to understanding how the system works. The system works precisely this way, people’s consciousness works like this for everyone: "Let's talk about God!" Meaning, not: "Let’s go, get closer to the Spiritual World, let’s make an effort to know God". No, the system sets up Personality so that it sits and listens to the actors talking about God in front of it. By the actors, I mean consciousness in

our understanding. Meaning, this scene of your conversation with yourself or with someone else. Although, what's the difference?! For a better understanding, I will clarify once again, it won’t be extraneous: that consciousness of each person is individual, but it’s a part of the whole system, a part of what many call the Absolute, the Supermind or the Higher Mind and the like. But this in no way or form pertains to the Spiritual World, to God. So, it turns out that even when we communicate with each other at the level of consciousness, it's the same as if the

system plays chess with itself. That’s where it comes from… We already said that even when two people argue, they haven’t started arguing yet, they haven’t yet met, but the outcome of their dispute has been long predetermined. It's the same as when you play chess with yourself: anyway, if you are for black, the black will win. How can you checkmate yourself with white? It is the same here. That’s the whole point, that’s the whole illusion, I would say, of deceit. It is concealed in the point That a person would sit like the Awaiter and wait for

God to come to him and say, "Okay, come with me to paradise. Because you are good. Look, you've read everything. You know everything, and you strive for Me internally, you have already earned it." That’s what the system tells a person. Yet, not just come, but "you will come in the body" … T: You will resurrect in the body… IM: …Yes, you will resurrect in the body, and you will have a lot of material happiness, blessings, and everything good. This is paradise, and in paradise, there must be everything. T: The system just discloses through people's consciousness

everything That it itself dreams about, for example, its own immortality. It is from here that a person has such material desires from consciousness as dreams of resurrection in the body and about material paradise. By the way, people often ask what paradise is. IM: Different religions describe paradise in different ways. But paradise is an associative interpretation. That is why, once again, to the dictation of consciousness, some people in their time, while creating religion, included in all seriousness, and then, in all seriousness, consciousness of other people clings to and believes that after death, after a certain period

of time, people will resurrect in bodies with their consciousness in some kind of material space. And there they will live forever… T: With animals… IM: Of course, with various animals, where there will be peace and quiet. But then again, logic kicks in, if this is paradise — there should be no killing. Therefore, a lion will nibble a carrot while sitting alongside a rabbit by the river and will enjoy the view of a pike and a carp swimming in an embrace. Then how are plants worse? It’s not allowed to eat a rabbit, that's murder. But what

about a carrot? Doesn't it want to live, or what? A carrot is also a spiritualized part. Somehow, that's not turning out right. No matter how you slice it, everything comes down to one eating another. But what kind of a paradise is this if one eats the other? That's not right. Why do even people who have served their entire lives in high positions in various religions doubt the existence of paradise? Because they made up such things for themselves from consciousness that their own consciousness doesn't want to believe. And why? Because they feel something different. T: Yes,

God’s world can only be felt with the deepest feelings. The deepest feelings go far beyond the boundaries of six dimensions. While the system is limited to only six dimensions. IM: God’s world is a different world. It is beyond any dimensions. It is boundless. While a dimension is a dimension because it can be measured. [God’s world is a different world. It is beyond any dimensions.] T: You have interestingly pointed out, Igor Mikhailovich, that we live in a spiritualized world… Very often people confuse and mix two concepts that are different in meaning: spiritualized and soul-filled. IM: Here’s

also a phenomenon. Let's take, for example, religious legends. When God was creating a human, He created both plants and animals, everything that is spiritualized. By the word spiritualized, something that is alive is meant. Everything that is alive lives owing to the Spirit, not the Soul. And many confuse. People argue, "Does a dog have a soul or not?" Well, a dog doesn't have a Soul, and it cannot have one. The fact that it’s a spiritualized creature, naturally, it wouldn't be able to live if it were not spiritualized. Even any little plant, any small microbe lives thanks

to the fact that it is spiritualized. And now I would suggest that people conduct such a mental experiment, make their consciousnesses work a little for Personality, for themselves. Just imagine, let's take… well, whatever you want. Let's take, for instance, like in an anecdote, a fish or a flea: if there were fur on a fish, there would be fleas on it. Let's take a flea, an elephant, and a human. And now we look — they are absolutely different. But if we break them down into particles and even go beyond the quantum limits, we will only see

the movement of energies, from which certain field structures or wave structures are formed, as we can call them, which already carry information. And already from them, the primary building blocks of the universe are formed, from which quarks are formed, then atoms. From these atoms, molecules are formed, from which a body is assembled. And here the difference already begins. So, that's exactly the assembly of molecules, mind you, molecules, it's already God knows what kind of a compound, And already then, thanks to certain information, either an elephant is formed out of them, or a flea, or a

human. But a human differs favourably from all of them. How? There is a Soul in him. And naturally, thanks to the fact that there is a Soul, there is a Personality — that which at one time God created without a body. Well, we will return to this a little later, but this is also an interesting point. So, it turns out that neither a flea nor an elephant have a Soul, and they don't have a Personality. But they have a certain, let's say, consciousness. Even a flea has certain skills of survival. It has certain reflexes of

how to exist. After all, it doesn't jump onto a tree and doesn't try to bite it, does it? No. It jumps on a dog, on a human, or on someone else and feeds on blood — this is its need. And where does the need come from? Again, from consciousness. Thank God, nowadays, many people already talk about this, that both fish and birds have quite a pronounced consciousness. They can use tools for survival and the like. Indeed, a bird can use a stick to pick out a worm somewhere, in fact, it's already the use of a

tool. Some fish also use certain tools to procure food or to create better wintering conditions for themselves, or something else. It's not just some kind of genetic memory that makes them move. It's a kind of consciousness; some have a bigger one, some have smaller. But animals have no Soul. Drawing a parallel between living beings, we can conclude that a human body doesn’t differ, let's say, at the molecular level, from the body of that very flea or that very elephant. Meaning, the elements are the same, but in a different sequence and in a different quantity. But

now we will go back along the chain: to atoms, from atoms to particles, to quantum states, then we will go beyond the quantum limit, and we will get where the waves are, that which we call energies — the motion of waves according to certain information embedded in them, Which are transformed into various particles. And if we go a little bit further, we will see the primary energy, what is called "spirit" in religions. It's hard to express what it is, even in modern language. While in the past, it was even more difficult. Therefore, let's take it

as a definition, let's assume, certain powers or, more simply, Allat — the powers coming from God, meaning, the primary state, that which arises. That’s where it already begins to form. And this power, Allat, gives life to the body of a human, the body of a flea, of an elephant, and of that very grass. So, it turns out that everything that lives is spiritualized. But this doesn’t mean the presence of a Soul. Why? Because the Soul is something different. I would compare it… speaking in modern terms, the Soul is something like a portal, it is something

that is directly and always connected with the Spiritual World. It is something through which Personality can contact Boundlessness and Infinity. It is something thanks to which Personality can really perceive the Spiritual World. T: So, based on all this, it turns out that the primordial nature of everything around, Including a human being is different, meaning, not as our consciousness habitually perceives it. While consciousness imposes on us a belief and perception of the world already in narrowed frameworks, limited even in three-dimensionality, meaning, through tactile sensations, vision, hearing, and so on. IM: The system itself is interested in

Personality focusing attention on three-dimensional objects. Meaning, it does not show in a person's consciousness what they consist of in their essence. Even now, we were just conducting a mental experiment, and we were forcing ourselves to think about it. But again, when looking at this very cup, when looking at each other, we don’t see molecules. We are not granted the ability to behold all this with earthly vision. For us in three-dimensionality: we have a shape, we have images, and we touch the table with our hands — it is solid, we touch the cup — it is

solid. That’s the phenomenon of all this three-dimensionality, that, being in the system, it is extremely difficult to study the system. Why do people often encounter, when they study the system while being in it — they encounter troubles for themselves, to put it mildly? The system will never allow one to study it by means of its own part, consciousness. And artificial intelligence, well, we started with it, it will never be created in the way which certain people dream about. Why? The system will not allow creating a clone of itself. It will control… Yes, it is possible

to create a very smart artificial intelligence that will know much and will pretend to be consciousness, similar to a human. It will be able to outplay you in chess, but this already exists today. It will be able to calculate and compute a lot. But it will never be spiritualized. T: Meaning, an alive, free and independent object, because it will be in the system and under the control of the system. IM: Right. Here one more question arises, of course, about the ninth day. But if we touch upon it, we will have to go far beyond the

quantum limit and talk about things which were closed to the masses since the beginning of time. Well, I think it will be interesting for people. So, if you wish, we can raise this question. T: Great, it would be interesting. But first, I would like to sum things up: so, the system conceals that this world is a world of illusion… IM: A world of illusion and deception, created artificially by the system itself. This is what it conceals. T: Igor Mikhailovich, and if Personality is free… IM: If Personality is free in its perception of the Spiritual World,

then no system can influence it. A true reality is one — it is the Spiritual World. While everything else is temporarily existing. Everything that exists temporarily cannot be real, meaning, it exists at a specific point, under specific conditions, and only for a specific fragment of time, no more. Why do I say a fragment and not a period? Because for us, time is passing. It has its beginning and its end. And we have a perception of a point in time. But if we look from the Spiritual World, Then time is like a line, and any fragment

can be viewed. Zh: Yes, from God’s reality! Perception through the deepest feelings — this is what gives a completeness of perception of the True reality, and it is this that gives an understanding of why this whole temporary world exists. IM: This whole world exists for a certain purpose, naturally, and its purpose is actually simple. That which is told about chaos and whatever else, there is no chaos — everything is put in order. And first of all, it is put in order by the system itself. God doesn’t interfere in this process, that’s for sure. Yes, the

world was created by Him, but there is a system in it — it is that little antipode which is trying, let’s say, to impose on people an opinion about itself that it is god. There is an interesting point here. Let’s look, suppose, at those very atheists who say, “I don’t believe in God.” Well, naturally, it is their consciousness saying that. While Personality is in such a disadvantageous, trapped state that it cannot even resist on its own behalf. T: But, at the same time, they claim, “I believe in the Absolute, I believe in the Higher mind”,

meaning, “I believe in the system”, “I believe in the devil” or “I serve the devil”. It would be simpler and more correct to say “I’m a slave of god who is nothing else but the devil”. That is, they echo their consciousness, or, as people already say now, they “open their mouth only by the will of consciousness, only by the will of the system.” It’s again this game from the system in “I believe — I don’t believe.” IM: Here we are touching on the issue of belief. Why do people say “Do you believe in God or

not?” After all, a person who’s really getting to know God and not just believes… Let’s dig a little deeper. If we look into the core of this issue, The concept “believe in God” didn’t exist. There was: “You know God,” “I know or I’m getting to know God.” People who know God are those whom we now call Saints, in such an understanding. They are in contact with the Spiritual World; they live by the Spiritual World. They are already immortal. Their bodies can be killed, but they cannot be killed, they are unreachable for the system itself because

they are already Alive. While a person who is “on the path to God” or is “getting to know, cognizing, God,” if we translate it into the modern language, the one cognizing God is a person who strives for God, feels that He exists… After all, any person feels, even the most devout atheist, if he thinks about it, if he conducts a banal mental experiment on himself, he will see that he has several consciousnesses, and there is the one who observes consciousness, and there is the one who observes the one who observes consciousness. This is not a

wordplay, this is reality. And it is precisely the one who observes the observer, observes consciousness, he is exactly the one who can feel that greatness of the Spiritual World which emanates along the “silver thread”, we once told about it when talking about the Soul. While the Soul is already a part of the Spiritual World, meaning, a part of God. T: Igor Mikhailovich, you are now telling very important understandings. And it can certainly be a wordplay only for those who haven’t studied the most important questions of that very modern scientific philosophy, people who have no idea

about the problems which are brought up in ontology, in gnoseology, in philosophical anthropology. It turns out that during the whole conversation now you have, in fact, been answering the main question: “How is attainment of the Truth possible?” And it couldn't be clearer… But, in fact, the main goal of science, as well as, by the way, Of religion, is precisely cognition of the Truth in its original basis. Everything is so simple! But human consciousness holds the attention of Personality on constant doubts; it demands proof, but proof, once again, precisely within the limits of three-dimensionality, and it

forces one to be afraid of the future and to blindly believe with a lack of understanding even in those very religions… IM: However, consciousness imposes something else. It exactly says that “You should be believing, but not Knowing.” You are taught how to believe in God, but you are not taught how to know Him. Consciousness actively supports this. The paradox is that it very actively supports all religions, all methods, all skills which lead to belief, which make people go to some holy places or something else, to overcome, to fight, to strive, but do all this in

three-dimensionality. Yet, if we look, if we just cast three-dimensionality aside and look from the perspective of the seventh dimension, we will see that a person doesn’t move in the spiritual sense. It turns out that he is the Awaiter — sitting and waiting for someone to come to him. No one will come. God’s doors are always open, but people close them in front of themselves. And, as I already said, God loves only those who love Him. And He knows only those whom He loves. T: Yes… IM: When a person is really developing spiritually and not standing

still, sooner or later an understanding comes to him that this world, let’s say, reflects the Spiritual World as if in a mirror, only with a change of signs and its essence. And the system fractally copies these mirror reflections from itself, like, let’s say, a play of shadows from a candle. Meaning, everything is exactly the opposite: here is fire and there is darkness. Sooner or later, understanding comes to a person that it is precisely in this play of shadows That the whole essence and deception of the system itself, all of its illusiveness is embedded. But when

a person understands deeper, when he begins to perceive through feelings and to see already with spiritual eyes, I mean, to perceive the Spiritual World and to see with spiritual eyes, then an understanding of the essence of all this illusory world comes to him, that these are only shadows from the mirrors of a septon, nothing more, all this material anxiety. What people call life is nothing but emptiness. If we look at a period of time… For many people, it is unclear, why emptiness? “After all, I live, I exist. I occupy a certain space. I am.” Yes,

we exist, but only from our own perspective. Whereas, if we look from a perspective of at least one billion years, then has a person lived or not? If we look from a perspective of at least one galaxy, has this person existed or not? Because a galaxy is huge, there are billions of planets in it. And an earthly person lives only on one forsaken, very distant little planet, in a small space. Everything depends on which side you are observing from. When a person gets liberated spiritually, he becomes an Angel. He is recognised by the whole Boundless

Spiritual World. It’s impossible not to notice him. And here’s the paradox, it’s a paradox only for matter: that a small, tiny, unnoticeable little human who exists only for a short period of time, when gaining Life, when getting free from the slavery of that very system, he becomes an Angel who brings joy to the entire Spiritual World, to an endless number of similar beings. But he comes not as a slave; he comes as an equal. That’s the point. Slavery and evil exist only here because here exists that which is called death. Everything begins from this. And

exactly here, there is unity and struggle of opposites, a desire for power, for greed, for everything else. And even the best person, The sweetest person, the kindest person whom you know, if you get into his head — the same thoughts come to him as to you, and he wants the same as you do. Well, the only difference is that you want tea, while he wants coffee. You dream about a Mercedes, while he dreams about a Volga* [Russian car], or he doesn’t need a Volga, he wants a zebra for himself, what difference does it make? The

point is not in things and not in their names. The point is that everyone seeks, I mean everyone who lives according to the dictation of their consciousness, or all the slaves of the devil, they seek one thing — to get settled better In this three-dimensional little world and to dream about That World. Meaning, to sit and dream and believe that it will come. But no matter how much you believe, it won’t come unless you go to it yourself. If you want God’s Love — learn to Love, and you will receive it. For the one who

Loves cannot be rejected because he is already there. If you want God’s Love — learn to Love. For the one who Loves cannot be rejected because he is already there. T: Igor Mikhailovich, for many people, quite an important question is what does it mean "God created a human in His image and likeness"? IM: The question is interesting. Many are concerned with what it means — in the image and likeness. For a deeper understanding, I think it is better to touch a little bit upon, For example, the Bible, the Old Testament, the Book of Genesis, its

first chapter, where it is said how after the separation of Light from Darkness, after the creation of the world, God decided to create a human. And as we know, it happened on the sixth day of creation: “Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” There is also a very interesting reference therein that God created humans in His image, He created them male and female. And here a question arises, what does it mean "in His image and likeness"? We already brought this issue up more than once in discussions and other

videos because many people interpret this literally, That a human was created in the image and likeness of God. And here, there is such a discrepancy, as always, in consciousness. "God created in His image and likeness" — consciousness perceives itse f as an image and likeness of God. However, the New Testament, the Gospel of John, Chapter 4, Verse 24, says, "God is Spirit." This is what Jesus told his disciples, that God is Spirit. Hence, He created a human in His image as a spiritual being, and in a human, that which is akin to the Spiritual World

is Spirit or what we call Personality. However, Personality, pardon me, is not material, it is spiritual. Hence, the image and likeness is nothing other than the spiritual component of a human. And in many religions, they tried to explain that a human is sort of a spirit, born of the spirit… T: …and that God created a human twice, as you have mentioned. IM: Yes. God created a human twice. Those who really seek and truly strive for spiritual knowledge, who do not just believe, to the dictation of their consciousness, in everything that is acceptable to the system,

but who experience inner thirst, those, as a rule, search in not only one religion, but wherever God is mentioned. And I think, they have more than once come across information from other, More ancient religions, as well as from Zoroastrianism which we’ve been discussing, that once people used to be incorporeal beings, they didn’t have flesh. They matured, became those who, for example, are called Angels in modern religion, and left. T: So, they were invisible, incorporeal spirits. IM: Of course. Today, people understand the comparison with Angels, while in ancient times, associations f three-dimensionality were more clear to

people, for example, related to local plants, animals or something else, meaning, what they saw and perceived in everyday life. If we consider, for instance, that very Zoroastrianism, the image of the first people — a man and a woman, I emphasize, as a single invisible being, was associatively compared to a noble rhubarb. It’s a plant that grew in those places where the Teaching itself originated. It’s a two-metre plant, the trunk of which is similar to two intertwined snakes. Well, you have often seen this symbol… T: Yes, this symbol in the form of two intertwined snakes —

caduceus, was often used in ancient times in different cultures as a symbol of birth, consent, universal movement, as a symbol of harmony of the two principles in a human: yin and yang. Previously it was used as an attribute of gods, on the staffs of priests. And today caduceus is known as one of the symbols of medicine. IM: Yes. But there is one more important point here which I would like to mention. Why was this comparison given, and why the entwinement of the masculine and feminine principles? It is now, in matter, that we have a man

and a woman. However, the first people were asexual just like an Angel. An Angel doesn’t have flesh, an Angel doesn’t have gender. And this should be understood. Previously, these, let’s say, masculine and feminine principles were merged in one being. That is why it was said that the first people were like a rhubarb plant, Meaning, a man and a woman were a single intertwined creature, and farr of Ahura Mazda, meaning, farr of God extended above them, that is, they were in God’s Love. By the way, the first gods of the ancient Chinese pantheon — Fuxi and

Nüwa — were depicted in the same way… T: …who are mentioned in the book AllatRa. IM: Yes. And by choice, precisely by human choice, what did God do? He made them material. T: As it is said in the legends of Zoroastrianism, "they both transformed from the floral image into the human image, and farr, as a Spirit, entered them"… IM: …as a Spirit. Again, they transformed from one image into another. However, the main essence of them was not in images, but in the spiritual core, meaning, in their spiritual component. Yet, here we already see and read

echoes from consciousness. Anyway, what is being told nowadays, the comparison with rhubarb and the like, was a simple comparison. But again, in a more ancient teaching, it is said that after they acquired matter, they still remained their essence. That is, there were no men and women at the first, initial stage. This is interesting too. And so, as I said at the beginning, the masculine and feminine principles were merged in one being. T: That is, such a phenomenon as the androgyny Of the first human was inherent, meaning unity, a combination of the male and female gender

in one person. Such a hermaphroditism, meaning, the ability to fertilize, when both egg cells and spermatozoa develop in one organism, that is, both one type of germ cells and the other. This phenomenon is also common for the animal world. IM: Yes, the analogy is preserved. T: It is very interesting that in the Bible, in Chapter 5 of the Book of Genesis, it is specifically mentioned that God created mankind: male and female, and called them “human.” And further, it says that Adam begot a son. Yet, it is now that we mistakenly consider, based on translations, that

Adam is a man. However, in reality, in the language of the original, when this word is used without an article, it doesn’t represent a proper noun as a male name, but serves only as a designation of a human in general, meaning, it is equally applicable to both a man and a woman. IM: This is a significant point… Later on, God nevertheless approved such a gender difference, and people were divided into men and women in order for people to have, let's say… Well, let’s put it straight, in order to complicate the way Home. Why has this

been done? Again, for some people, a misunderstanding will arise in consciousness: “Why complicate the way Home? After all, God, on the contrary, should protect His children.” I will answer with an analogy of three-dimensionality: we do send our children to study. And we care that our children do not simply finish school, but also acquire some profession, achieve something in life, that they become good people, at least, in our understanding. Everyone has their own understanding of what a good person is. Well, so that they become good people and find themselves in life. It's not quite like that,

but approximately. And again, all this was at the request of those very people. Because the first people, according to Zoroastrianism, they themselves asked for flesh so that it would be possible to overcome certain difficulties and deservedly attain God’s Love. Well, this is exactly what created obstacles, and it also served as a reason for creation of the material world and creation of flesh. Later on, there was a final division of this flesh into a man and a woman. Well, and then substitutions of the concept of True Love with human love began. And, as we know, human

love is temporary. A simple example of how consciousness plays with people. There is love between a man and a woman. They love each other, but think about others and desire others. Is this love? Of course not. So this is the way it all started. But all this creates certain difficulties and gives a certain tool to consciousness. Since a body appeared — consciousness appeared. Since bodies were divided, a bigger concern of consciousness about “its” other “half” arose. Well, again, is it really “its”? There appeared a myth that “it is necessary to find one’s other half”, that

“it definitely exists,” and so on. Thus, the “rhubarb” is running around and searching for its second part. That’s interesting, of course. In general, legends are not all empty; there is much meaning in them. You should simply know how to understand them. Zh: Yes, it's very interesting, also taking into account what you told us earlier: that there are more powers of Allat in a woman, but she is less stable, while a man is more stable, but there are less powers of Allat in him compared to a woman. Here, of course, the question is not in who

has more or less of what. These competitions in thoughts are games from consciousness. In fact, everyone has enough of everything, if their attention is invested rationally. The question here is in something different: Where do you redirect these powers of Allat with your attention? What do you multiply in yourself: death or Life? T: Yes, this is really interesting. And you know, now you understand more deeply how your own consciousness, to a large extent, complicates your life. How consciousness evokes a multitude of consumeristic, negative thoughts, quarrels between people, between a man and a woman, and why, in

general, there are no true, deepest feelings in relationships between them. You understand how consciousness entices and perplexes women with the external, diverting away the power of their attention from true Love, from the true Source that is within them. How consciousness plunges them into its lies, into its artifice, into deception, into accumulation of dust, into some false goals, and simply makes them waste life on these illusions. Because, if we take a look, what does a woman live by in her thoughts? What does she waste her life on? On magic: on a search of external love, on

its loss and return, on enmity and sorcery. Meaning, sheer magic. And what about men? They have a thirst for Love. But even here, consciousness, again, turns everything upside down to its own benefit. It imposes on you this game in three-dimensionality, the result of which is emptiness and disappointment in everything. And so consciousness drives men into unsatisfied egoism, into envy, into constant competition in a chase for importance, into determining who is stronger, who is cooler, who is richer. Eventually, what does all this lead to? To aggression, wars, and sufferings. And their consciousness treats women the same

way. It simply imposes on them a thought that they should possess a woman as a thing, meaning, not love, not be in harmony with her, but exactly possess as a thing. That is, enslavement of the divine nature by consciousness… And you understand that before you lived only like this, to the dictation of consciousness, That you constantly demanded something from others for yourself. But here another question arises: “Was it really for yourself?” And you suffered from it yourself. You didn’t know about this inner God's Love and didn’t cultivate it in yourself. God created a human twice

T: So, when a human was created, there were two main stages: the stage of… spiritual birth and the stage… of transformations in matter… Now, I'll pause for a minute and voice thoughts that have just now sounded in my head, thoughts from the system, when it tried to impose its ready-made final answer, And I almost voiced that "there were two main stages: before the creation of matter and after." Thus, it always tries to trick and to slip in first the thought about its so-called “super-importance”... It always tries to cram down the importance of matter, erasing the

importance of the spiritual. And again, you ascertain how important it is to control exactly what you say, what you want to say, and not your consciousness. Zh: Yes, and as Igor Mikhailovich said, to speak from consciousness and to broadcast from the Spirit are completely different things. Because consciousness always wants to be a partner to Personality, and even worse, a dictator. But Personality is not a partner, it’s not a slave of consciousness. Personality is the Master. It is the one paying with its attention for this whole presentation of consciousness. It is the one responsible for the

results. When you know about this, it's very easy to be yourself and not to be afraid to expose your consciousness. T: Yes, you should be honest with yourself, honest in practice. Zh: Right. T: So, when a human was created, there were two main stages, and the key point was precisely that of the human choice — the choice to serve the Spiritual World, Even while being imprisoned here, in matter. IM: Absolutely right. Initially, people were born like, let's say, little angels; they grew up, developed, and became part of the Spiritual World. They didn’t know suffering, they

didn’t know evil. Well, it was joyful, wonderful, and good. But people chose precisely the difficult path. In Zoroastrianism, it is well said that they made a decision, I emphasize, people made a decision to oppose evil while being in bodies. That is, to gain materiality. T: Yes, this legend is mentioned in the sacred books of Zoroastrianism, that once God asked people whether He should protect them from Ahriman, Or if they themselves, already in a bodily shell, “in a bodily form”, can fight and defeat him, after which they would become immortal. And people chose the latter. IM:

This is the choice of people themselves. They wanted to oppose Ahriman while being in bodies, to begin under his rule, to begin with duality. It is such a serious choice so that Angels, and not little angels, would come to the Spiritual World. It was brought into the material world where people were born, developed, and then consciously chose that they needed to go to the Spiritual World. And this is interesting and joyful, when Angels come, it is wonderful. T: And here’s also an interesting point that in the books on that very Zoroastrianism, it is said that

the God of Good - Ahura Mazda, made his creations precisely in the form of spiritual beings. Or rather, He created "spiritual images of all creatures", and only then He created the material world and gave a bodily appearance to what He had created. And that His creations, incarnated in a "bodily form", will be able to overcome Ahriman and the evil he generated, and that the main fighters against Ahriman are precisely people themselves. Zh: Yes… Another one of such key points, which are also noted there, is that victory is only possible With the active participation of a

person himself, that a person must remember that he comes from the Spiritual World, that he is a spiritual being and not an earthly one, and it is precisely spiritual affairs which are much more important than earthly affairs. T: Absolutely right. It is pointed out that Ahriman very much wants to conceal from people what will really happen to them if they follow his intentions, meaning, to conceal the punishment for sins and "the end of things." As for Ahura Mazda, He, on the contrary, very much wants to be recognised; He is open to everyone. And what is

also interesting, it is mentioned that a person, already upon reaching the age of 15, Should know the answer to the question whom he belongs to: Ahura Mazda or Ahriman. IM: The age of 15 was specified later due to the delay in development of some people. But overall, initially, it was 11-12 years of age. By the age of 11 or 12, a person had to make his final choice — whom he serves. Zh: Is it associated with the surge? IM: Yes, this is due to the secondary surge, and a person already made an independent choice, whom

he is with: with Ahura Mazda or with Ahriman. If we look, many religions affirm or mention that the devil is cunning and invisible, That he is hiding from eyes, and it’s enough to expose the devil for him to lose his power. In reality, there is a deep meaning here. We already talked about the work of consciousness and so on. When a person begins to realise and understand that consciousness plays a cruel joke on him, and it turns out that a person doesn’t have his own will, but he only executes the will of either the Spiritual

world or the system of the material world, then he can choose whose will to execute. And here, I would also like to touch upon such a point, we already mentioned it: Under no circumstances is a human a slave of God. He can become a slave only to his consciousness. So, a person is free to choose whom to serve: Ahriman or Ahura Mazda, or speaking the habitual language of modern times, satan or God. Whom does he serve? If he serves Ahriman, satan, in this case, he becomes a slave. But if he serves God, he becomes free.

T: You know, at one time, this information touched me very deeply, that everything began and happened exactly by human choice. After all, this is precisely the True heroism… Of course, it is difficult for consciousness to understand the entire importance and significance of what is happening. As a matter of fact, you are deep behind the lines of the human enemy. Because you, as Personality, are imprisoned in a structure with a material body, with an active consciousness, and on top of that, you are surrounded by the artificial system from all sides. Zh: Thus, you are inside the

dead. And only your Soul connects you with your home, with the Alive. So indeed, you must boundlessly Love the world of God in order to have this enormous power of Spirit to resist the system while being imprisoned in it, to serve the Spiritual World here, in this hell, in order to return Home with an inner, mature, true victory! T: Yes… Igor Mikhailovich, you have pointed out quite correctly that ancient legends are not as simple as they appear at first glance. IM: Absolutely right. T: So, both in Zoroastrianism and in Christianity, let’s even take stories about

the fact that God created a human twice. We are now examining this topic… IM: And what do we see? Here also, let’s say, for inquisitive consciousnesses that are urged by curiosity not from the system, but from Personality, I’ll give a little hint that in the Bible it is described that after the seventh day, I again emphasize, the seventh day when God rested. And, as we already mentioned before, there are six dimensions for human Consciousness — there is a little hint here for those who think. There are six dimensions in which consciousness or the system itself

can exist. In the seventh dimension, it can no longer exist. The seventh dimension is already an exit beyond the material world, beyond the system. So, in the Bible, it is written that on the seventh day God rested from all His work, meaning, He rested from the creation of the world. And after the seventh day, already on the eighth day as it turns out, there is a description of the creation of a human by God. Hence, it was the second time when He created him. But here it is already written in a completely different way: "And

the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." This is the Book of Genesis, Chapter 2, Verse 7; anyone can open and read it. So, if the first time, He created him in His image and likeness, He created the one who was incorporeal. It was a spiritualized, non-material being. And it's only a matter of time, it matured, merged, and left when already mature. Then here, we see that on the eighth day, God formed a human from the dust of

the ground. And so, a lot is connected with the eighth day. We encounter a very interesting phenomenon. If we move away from the Bible as an updated version of ancient religions and lean a little bit on ancient religions, although this remained in later religions as well, for example, in both Christianity and Islam, and in many other religions, it is quite developed in Judaism, why was the name given to a person exactly on the eighth day and so on? T: Yes, many peoples have preserved legends and sacred actions connected precisely with the eighth day after a

person's birth… IM: Absolutely right, because it was exactly on the eighth day That the Soul came into a human body as a vessel and Personality was formed. And from here come these words that the Lord God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", meaning, the creation of Personality… T:…with the coming of the Soul. IM: Yes. Then Personality was maturing, ripening while being in a human body, and was supposed to merge with the Soul. T: That is, while being inside the dead, inside the very system that is set against everything divine, while being imprisoned in

a part of this system, you as Personality, as an Alive Spirit, remain flawless in devotion, in service to the Spiritual World, in increasing spiritual Love even here, being in such conditions. IM: And here’s precisely the heroism. Why did it happen exactly this way? There is also logic for the mind in this because a living being that fights for life, that goes through adversities, it performs a certain feat: it defeats the devil, wins its Armageddon, and gains Life. And a mature Angel comes. Thus, it really becomes an event that is reflected in the entire boundlessness of

the Spiritual World. Zh: So, inside the inevitably dead, you become eternally Alive. Inside the inevitably dead, you become eternally Alive T: Igor Mikhailovich, we were just talking about the creation of the first people, and it would be quite interesting to shed light on one more very important topic. In various religions, this topic is called the Fall of the first human, while in Christianity, it is called “original sin” or “ancestral sin.” Well, and from here arises such a disturbing question for a thinking person: “Am I sinful from birth due to the fact that people are initially

sinful as the human race? Am I initially sinful or, for example, are my children or babies sinful if they haven’t done anything bad yet?” To put it briefly, what does a layman know about this question? That which is written in the third chapter of the Book of Genesis: that the sin, the Fall, was committed by the first human couple — Adam and Eve in paradise, When they were tempted by the devil and tasted the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or, as it is also called, the tree of life

and death. As a result, they were banished from paradise and became mortal beings, that is why afterwards all people became sinners. Nowadays, there are a lot of different interpretations of this legend from the Book of Genesis. What frightens and oppresses a believer? The fact that he is sinful from birth, that he has a sinful curse. What has he heard in the church? That spiritual purification, liberation from the power of “original sin” occurs in the sacrament of Baptism — it’s a ritual which is considered To be a spiritual birth of a human in Christianity, meaning, he

sort of formally dies for sinful life and is already born into a new blessed life. And precisely owing to Baptism, he will be granted freedom from the tyranny of the devil. People believe in this, but it doesn’t go further than belief in the majority of cases. As a rule, people count on a ritual, but not on their personal transformation, not on the inner work on themselves. Among theologians of various organizations, denominations and trends, there is no single opinion concerning this issue either; Everyone just refers to their authorities, to those who talked on this issue, what

they said and when. Is a human sinful from birth? Generally speaking, Jesus didn’t say that, it was said by people. “Original sin” is purely a theological term in Christianity. It was introduced 400 years after Jesus, at the time when Christianity acquired the status of state religion. On the whole, as usual: people seem to go around the Truth in circles; only when they try to understand it with the mind, then this age-old controversy arises Where a comma should properly be, as you correctly noted. IM: Speaking of sin, it’s important to understand that a human is initially

free and there is no sin within him. A human — I mean as Personality. What is ‘the first sin’? In various religions, we often come across the notion that a human is initially sinful. And here we should examine what sin is. T: Yes, the question is that the concept of the sin committed by the first human and of his Fall is also included in legends of other religions, for example, in that very Zoroastrianism. But we will return to this later. Indeed, we very much want to get to the bottom of how it is in actual

fact. IM: The first sin is actually that moment of the first, very first sin, when a human as Personality believed his consciousness. It is the first belief in a lie. This is exactly what the first sin is. When he was seduced by consciousness, when he as Personality was seduced by the illusions of consciousness, by something material. Well, subsequently, we can simply say that a human as Personality is not initially sinful. But then a question arises, if a human as Personality is not sinful, why does he pass into the state of subpersonality or, speaking the language

of religion, why does he end up in hell if he’s not sinful? But here, there is such a concept as inaction. A human as Personality comes into this world in order to gain freedom from the material world and unite with the Spiritual World, meaning, to come into the Spiritual World as a mature being. However, his inaction as of Personality, when a person lives by the world of illusion and puts all his attention into illusions from consciousness, into his insatiable, illusory nature, it cannot be called otherwise, he simply wastes his life. And he is, let’s say,

like a woman’s egg cell that turned out to be unfertilized. It is the same with Personality, if it is “unfertilized”, it becomes a subpersonality. Of course, it continues its existence since no one Cancelled the law of information conservation, and as long as there is energy, as long as there is a carrier, information will exist. Therefore, a person remains exactly in the stage of subpersonality. But the sin, as such, ceases to exist as soon as a human as Personality, I’m emphasizing, becomes free from the slavery of consciousness. A person already begins to exist independently. He will

not allow anything bad to happen. He puts his main effort and all his attention precisely into the Spiritual World, first into the search of this path, and later on, into being in this state until he gains Life. So, sin as such is a relative concept, and it is mainly imposed on Personality. Everything is simple. As a matter of fact, everything is simple, very simple. There is consciousness, there is Personality; there is the Soul as a conductor or, let’s say, as a means of transport, it may be called so. If Personality has managed to unite, meaning,

if Personality has become free from the power of consciousness and has thrown off its chains, it has seen reality and felt the Spiritual World. And having felt the Spiritual World, one already doesn’t want to move away from it. T: Yes, this is really simple. And it is very easy to understand this even after reading, for example, in Orthodoxy that initially a human didn’t have experience of being in a state without grace. That the Fall as such is a loss of blessed lofty state of being with God, it’s a loss of Life in God. Meanwhile, this

bliss is associated with the presence of the grace of the Holy Spirit in a human from the very creation. And that the Spirit acted in the Prophets and taught them, and it was inside of them and appeared to them. And the Spirit dwelt in Adam when It wanted, and Adam knew the sweetness of God’s Love. Zh: Yes, and that the Holy Spirit is Love and sweetness of the Soul… The one who has come to know God by the Holy Spirit insatiably yearns for the Living God day and night. T: Yes. And this also explains why

death was the result of falling away from God: as much as a person moved away from God, the closer he came to death. IM: Yes. When Personality is in the slavery of consciousness, it lives by illusion, precisely an imposed illusion. This may be called a state of sinfulness. And, of course, no one will be able to atone for your sin through prayers. No one will be able to forgive it for you until you yourself move away from it. A simple example, let’s take ancient times: A person is in a pharaoh’s slavery. He meets a slave

of the same kind, and that slave tells him, “You are not a slave, you are free, you can go wherever you want. Don’t pay attention to the fetters. The fact that you can walk strictly within a defined area, well, what’s the difference, after all, you are free. Be satisfied with what you have and be joyful and praise your owner.” Because for slaves, their owner is actually god; he can do whatever he wants with their lives. But again, only temporary existence is meant here by life. So, think for yourselves. T: Yes, slaves do not know God,

that is why they are slaves. They perceive their master as God… You know, I also wanted to share one moment from my childhood. Of course, in modern society, it is uncommon to talk about one’s feelings from childhood because consciousness imposes a certain game of image, of authority, of “goodness”. Some stories and tales about yourself, in the opinion of consciousness, may spoil your reputation. But to be honest, I simply became tired of living by its rules. When you accept for yourself that the truth is more valuable for you, it becomes easy to voice the way it

works. So, in my childhood, I really felt in myself an inclusion of something bad, Of this sinfulness, so to speak, that there was something from the Animal nature. And I wanted to be good. But this bad something was constantly pressing on me, and I wanted to avoid this state in myself. But it was very intrusive. Yet, back then I didn't understand why it was happening that way. IM: You have correctly raised the question. In fact, in childhood, especially at the age of 5 to 6 years old, or a bit older, up to the age of

10 or 11, people feel some sort of duality. They feel that consciousness imposes on them. They feel that they don't want it, but it imposes. They don't want to be afraid, but they are afraid. They don't want to do evil or to deceive, but they deceive. They understand that something dual is imposed in them. But when they are not told about Personality, when this information is hidden from them, Personality loses the power to resist consciousness, it doesn’t understand how to reach this holiness, to reach this freedom. And what is holiness? It is, first of all,

freedom from the chains of consciousness; it is exactly what atonement for sin is. Atonement for sin is precisely a refusal of the dictatorship of consciousness, When you become a truly free person, meaning Personality independent from the material world. Many will say, “But how will you not depend on the body?” The body depends and consciousness depends, while Personality is only temporarily here. What is more important? This should be pondered over. However, this doesn’t mean that one should stop, let's say, any communication with one’s consciousness, absolutely not. Any aspiration to speed up the process comes from consciousness.

Only consciousness can dictate to a person to commit suicide, or, for example, “You will now go to God. Simply lie there, don't do anything, Don't eat, don't drink, tomorrow you will die, just pray — and you will come to God.” You will not come anywhere, you'll become a subpersonality. Why? Because actually, the path to God is precisely the work of Personality, it’s an aspiration. If you pick a green fruit, it will be green. Everything has to ripen and come in time. It’s the same here. Another thing is that for some the ripening is sooner, for

others later. But the time which is given to stay here, even if a person has learned a lot, he has the right to leave, he started Living, the fusion has happened, but he will be here anyway. Why? To serve the Spiritual World, because this is a need. Whereas, if he doesn’t have a need to Serve, it means he doesn’t have an understanding of the Spiritual World, understanding of this importance; there is no integrity. Hence, it’s an illusion from consciousness, just another illusion. T: Many people have an understanding that they are close to the Truth, but

consciousness… Consciousness is indeed afraid of facts and practice. By the way, it is also interesting how it is mentioned regarding the first sin of people in Zoroastrianism. Today, you have mentioned the creation of the first couple of people from a rhubarb, And that which is written in the legend from Chapter 15 The Nature of People of the holy book of Zoroastrianism Creation — the Bundahishn. It is interesting that according to this legend, when people transformed into a human image, meaning when they gained materiality, a body, what did they continue to Live by inside themselves? By

what they really were in their Spirit. They lived by Joy, Joy in God’s Love, by this very state of spiritual grace as a source of their true Life. According to the legend, God, in Zoroastrianism He was called Ohrmazd, which is short for Ahura Mazda, told the first human couple, who were called Mashye and Mashyane, that… Now I will simply quote certain parts… “‘You are created perfect in devotion by me; perform devotedly the duty of the law, think good thoughts, speak good words, do good deeds, and worship no demons!' Both of them first thought this, that

one of them should please the other, as he is a man for him; and the first deed done by them was this… and the first words spoken by them were these, that Ohrmazd created the water and earth, plants and animals, the stars, moon, and sun, and all prosperity whose origin and effect are from the manifestation of righteousness." Then, there is an important moment in the story: “Afterwards, antagonism rushed into their minds, and their minds were thoroughly corrupted, and they exclaimed that the evil spirit created the water, plants and animals, and the other things as aforesaid’.

This false speech was spoken through the will of the demons, and the evil spirit possessed himself of this first enjoyment from them; through that false speech they both became wicked, and their souls are in hell until the future existence.” IM: They believed consciousness. In this case, if we take Zoroastrianism, it is interpreted there that people thought badly or thought about bad things, and Ahriman rejoiced at their sin, meaning, They contrasted themselves with God, with the Spiritual World, but here it is exactly said that they believed consciousness. T: Yes, they simply believed their deceitful material consciousness.

IM: Right. Meaning, people felt, they knew initially as Personalities that this world is created by God. But consciousness imposed a substitution on them, and they believed it. And they said out loud that this world was built by Ahriman and it belongs to him. T: Yes, they began to announce thoughts and wishes of the system, that the system is supposedly a creator of the world order. Meaning, they started serving the devil. You know, this reminds me of something: the Universal mind, the Absolute, atheism, matter is primary, the Big Bang, self-organization of matter… Zh: Yes, yes, yes.

T: Further on, it is told using the example of allegories of the legend about the first human couple, how people's deviation from their true spiritual nature and the shift of attention to thoughts from consciousness happened. According to the legend, when they drank the milk of the white-haired goat, Mashye said to Mashyane that “My delight was owing to it when I had not devoured this milk, but now that I drank it, My delight became less delightful and my body fell ill.' That second false speech enhanced the power of the demons…” Zh: Thus, they invested the power

of attention, these divine powers of Allat, in thoughts about the health of their own mortal bodies, about matter. T: Yes. Then it is mentioned that after they prepared first food on the fire from the meat of the sheep for themselves, “they dropped three handfuls of the meat into the fire, and said: 'This is the share of the fire.' One piece of the rest they tossed to the sky, and said: 'This is the share of the angels.' A bird, the vulture, advanced and carried some of it away from before them, as a dog ate the first

meat.” This is an allegory that in three-dimensionality, the powers of Allat already started being wasted on magic, on that which is food for the system. These powers were not put into the growth of Love and Joy in God’s grace. And then we read in the legend that “owing to the gracelessness which they practiced, the demons became more oppressive, and they, Mashye and Mashyane, "carried on unnatural malice between themselves; they advanced one against the other, and smote and tore their hair and cheeks. Then the demons shouted out of the darkness thus: 'You are man; worship the

demon! So that your demon of malice may repose." Then it is said that Mashye went and basically performed a magic ritual and from that, the demons became stronger, while both of them, Mashye and Mashyane, became so weak that for a long time they couldn’t perform what they had to. Only 50 years after this moment, they had children and their offspring who formed human races. Zh: So, basically, the sin of the first people was that they believed their consciousness, began to lose perception of the Spiritual World through feelings and the deepest joy from communication with It.

They simply began to waste the powers of Allat on deceitful thoughts, On thoughts about the health of their bodies, on earthly desires — on magic. Actually, this is what is happening today to the majority of people. IM: Yet again, what is the reason? In this case, it is the putting of one’s faith and one's powers into illusion and deception with a hope of getting something. It is simply the initial stage of the system’s development in the human world. A human as Personality is initially without sin Igor Mikhailovich, people often ask the following questions and get

confused with the answers, for example, "What is “I”?", or "If my “I” is not connected with the body, then how can I hear?", or "How can I hear myself?", or "How can this “I” observe the state of its own consciousness?" Or another question: "How to distinguish in oneself where I am as Personality and where my consciousness is?" In general, "How does consciousness work?", "What is the life of Personality as a Spirit?" Well, and many other questions. It’s just that people lack an understanding of these questions. Yes, people lack an understanding, and this is caused by

the intensive development of psychology, philosophy, various religious movements and trends that have strengthened the position of our consciousness. And Personality of a modern human is in a less favourable position compared, for example, to a human who lived even a thousand years ago. Why? Because the information flow is too strong, there are too many offers that lead in various directions. And Personality simply gets confused, while consciousness is active. The system is active. It has always been active, but now it is also well armed. It is armed with its scriptures that it created. It is armed with

modern technologies, not only books as before, but with the Internet, television and everything else. So Personality is in such a less favourable position than consciousness. That is why, in fact, this time is called the time of the Crossroads or the time of human choice, which road to take. Yes… the human choice Between the inevitably dead and the eternally Alive. Absolutely right. I guess, in order to get a bit of a better understanding, we will have to look beyond the quantum limit, which puts in order what seems to consciousness to be chaos, and look at the

usual material objects that exist up to the sixth dimension. And at the same time, to look beyond the limits of the sixth dimension where there is something that people call the soul. Perhaps, indeed, we should talk about this a little bit. So, let’s look beyond the quantum limit and consider from a simple perspective of an ordinary person, so that there is an understanding of what consciousness is, How it works, and what Personality is. We will begin with elementary points. Logicians may argue or not, but I will tell it the way it is without complicating these

processes. And whoever disagrees with this, but wants to find confirmation, can look for answers in other sources, and the one who craves will always find. Let’s begin with simple points. What is human consciousness? How is it arranged? And most importantly, why do many closed religious, I emphasize, organizations dream of the “ninth day”? What does the “ninth day” mean in general, and where does this concept originate from? This story is hundreds and hundreds of years old. And up until now, there exists this priestly clan that is doing a lot to implement the "ninth day". This is

interesting. This is akin to worldwide conspiracies, it’s for those who like the topic of conspiracies. This is funny, of course, but it is true. So, for a better understanding, perhaps, we will start with how a human evolves, how it all happens. Yes, it would be of significant help for people — to understand what consciousness really is and what you are as Personality. Yes, of course. There are two types of consciousness. The first consciousness, let’s call it primary consciousness, is the main one and is born together with the physical body — it’s the consciousness of a

primate, of an animal. While the next layer of consciousness, which manifests itself in opposition to the manifestation of Personality in a human body, is already secondary consciousness. Secondary consciousness is like a modern consciousness or a new consciousness, it is also called human consciousness. Here it’s important to understand that owing to secondary consciousness we have overtaken apes in our intellectual development. Now, this is a very important point. This is exactly the answer Which neurophysiologists have already been looking for, for many, many years. But they are still stuck in the same place… Well, at least, they have

been stuck until this historical moment. Yes, that’s right. So, this new consciousness is very aggressive and active. Although both one and the other part of our consciousness are nothing else but a part of the whole system, and it is clear that it’s a field structure. By no means, these are neurons of the brain and the like. Neurons of the brain, we already discussed this in one of the videos, are merely, let’s say, physics. Neurons are the structures which transform information That comes from the field structures of consciousness into physical, then into chemical reactions, then back

into physical ones, and so on. But this is by no means where a thought emerges or originates from and where it works. As of today, thank God, our scientists already understand perfectly well that they observe only reactions, although they are trying to catch a thought, to grasp something, but they see and observe a reaction. Meaning, they see the consequence, not the cause. Yes. So, I'll go back a little. At the very beginning of a human being, while he is still in the mother’s womb, along with the development of his brain, The so-called primary consciousness develops.

Why is it exactly primary? Because it develops in utero. After the birth of a human being, primary consciousness is directly connected with the entire composition of the human body. It controls the entire human chemistry and everything else. But it has, I would say, an ill-defined intellect, meaning, this consciousness is limited. But it is also connected with secondary consciousness. And here’s an interesting point: a human soul enters a person exactly on the eighth day. Until the eighth day, a human is no different from an animal. A chimpanzee also has quite a well-developed primary consciousness. The analogy

is actually very close. Let’s say, children of an ape and a human, up to three years of age, up to five years old, develop practically in the same way. But then, a human begins to break away sharply. Why does this happen? Precisely because on the eighth day after birth, a human, like a vessel, is filled with a human soul. And the soul creates Personality. Personality is exactly what a human is in reality. It is who you are. Soul and Personality are exactly the spiritual components, and why a human became a human, And why he was

created in God’s image and likeness, it is because there was a part of the Spiritual World in him. Here again, it’s an interesting point, I don’t want to miss it. Many people associate the soul with something intelligent and all-knowing. But the soul is the door, let’s say, to the academy of sciences. There are smart people in the academy of sciences who know everything. But tell me, does the door know anything? Smart people walk through the door, however by itself, it is a door. The soul is a portal; it’s an open door to the world of

God. While Personality is that very student or junior research assistant who has come to work in this academy and can learn everything. But the soul is nothing other than a passage to Knowledge. It is clear that all these are just words, it is clear that all these are just allegories. But it’s an attempt at the current level to explain what it is. Igor Mikhailovich, as for this practice of "Who am I?", it is mentioned in the book AllatRa, and you talked about it in the previous videos. It specifically implies that it is necessary to get

deeper to an understanding that "I" is actually you as Personality, right? Yes, in understanding "I" — it is Personality. And Personality is what is directly connected with primary consciousness. The very practice of "Who am I?" exactly implies that a person must find what "I" is, meaning, Personality. Meaning, "I" as Personality that is connected both with the soul and with primary consciousness, exactly the consciousness of a primate you have previously talked about, that the development of a monkey and the development of a child are identical up to a certain point. Absolutely right, meaning, with the consciousness

of a primate. In its development, it remains at the level of a child, that is, at the level of 5 to 6 years of age at best, but more often, even younger. This primary consciousness, the consciousness of a primate, Actually connects Personality with three-dimensionality, right? Yes. Primary consciousness as such is directly connected with the three-dimensional world. It is connected with sight, hearing and all our tactile sensations. It is associated with everything that enables us to perceive the three-dimensional world. Primary consciousness is what gives information about the three-dimensional world to our Personality. This is a very

important point for understanding because since childhood, the system has been telling us that it is the information received from the senses that shapes a person’s perception of the world and oneself. But in reality, Personality has a completely different perception, different from the perception of matter as such. It is different from the perception of that very body in three-dimensionality that is controlled through the brain by primary consciousness. This is a global setup from the system, substitution of the concept of who you really are. In other words, what have we been taught since childhood? That it is

exactly you who perceives this world by means of the five basic senses: sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touch. That it is exactly you who feels pain, the difference in temperature, pressure, the sense of balance, the position in three-dimensional space, Acceleration in it, the sense of weight, some other kinesthetic sensations. In other words, scientifically speaking, all this is nociception, thermoception, equilibrioception and proprioception of the body. So, in fact, these are the problems of the body reflected in primary consciousness. While the system puts an equal sign between you and the body. Although all this bodily perception of

three-dimensionality is merely a product of primary consciousness, nothing more. All this information about three-dimensionality, all the events, all the situations and experiences — all of this is a derivative of consciousness. This is not you. Where is the substitution? In the fact that it is not consciousness that perceives, but allegedly, you are the one who perceives. The system has again substituted the clues to notions. It’s like in the tradition of Zoroastrianism, what we’ve already mentioned, when at the beginning a human knew that "Ormazd created water, earth, plants, animals…" and so on, but then consciousness told him

that "Ahriman created water, plants, animals…" and so on. Meaning, lies and substitution are the way the system works, while primary and secondary consciousness are parts of the system. And this applies to everything: a person’s life, the meaning of his existence, and the question of who he really is. Yes, Personality and consciousness… A human is dual. And consciousness as a part of artificial intelligence, as part of the system, does everything for only one side to develop, for consciousness to dominate. Even in religions… What do we observe? Prayers, mantras that are uttered aloud or are mentally repeated

many times, what do they develop? Primary or secondary consciousness. But what about the Spirit? IM: Yes… Hence, people, without understanding it, do absolutely everything for consciousness to dominate, meaning, the human essence. While the angelic essence, which is who they really are, is simply enslaved. People perceive themselves as consciousness, with lots of thoughts in their head, with emotional outbursts. While the spiritual is lost. The spirit, unfortunately, doesn’t develop. It turns out that you live like an intelligent animal. That is where greed, hatred, envy… and death come from. Yes, While everything true, pure and divine does not

develop. Although it should be developed in the first place. But you just renounce what makes you dead, shift the power of your attention and live inside by that which makes you Alive. Until I understood this in practice, it was very hard to live — to live by consciousness. Because consciousness is a pile of doubts, all kinds of its alternatives and algorithms. Whereas the life of a developing Personality is something completely different. Personality perceives any situation holistically, In a voluminous way. Personality knows and does not doubt. And the difference between perceptions is huge. Personality perceives cause-and-effect

relationships holistically and in a voluminous way, even that which is presented by consciousness. This is a completely different life. It is very different from biological life. It is consciousness that creates a cause and reaps the consequence. Consciousness always has fragmentation, division, and plenty of chaos. But it’s just a stream of processed information, which is presented to Personality as an already prepared form. In order to understand yourself as a Spirit, the best way is to develop it in yourself and not wait for everything to happen on its own. Nothing will happen if you do not make

an effort. Absolutely right. I would also like to say that consciousness puzzles a person so much, both with relationships and with attaching his attention to daily routine, that it just doesn’t let him come to his senses. And what does it hide from Personality? The fact that a human is actually a Spirit. It hides the fact that for consciousness, Personality is just a source of nutrition. And that all this fuss is simply useless if, in the end, death awaits you. Absolutely right. So, in this practice “Who am I?”, we consciously develop that which is something to

whom primary consciousness tells everything, meaning, what we see, hear, touch, in general, all our perception of three-dimensionality. Whereas secondary consciousness is exactly that which continues to develop. If primary consciousness gets stuck in its development, meaning, stops its development at the level of about 5 to 6 years of age, More often, even younger, meaning, consciousness remains similar to that of a primate, then secondary consciousness continues its further development. And exactly by means of secondary consciousness we analyze, think… Yes, we actually analyze with secondary consciousness. It’s a paradox! And we think that it is what we are.

Well, it seems to us that we analyze and think. Again, let’s go back, we are Personality. Personality has nothing to do with the three-dimensional world. Well, let’s say, it is much higher in its dimensional hierarchy. Personality is directly connected with primary consciousness, but it is not connected with secondary consciousness. Secondary consciousness is what we habitually consider to be ourselves… That is how thoughts and images come, our computing processes go on, that very logic and many other things. So, all these pictures, all this information that comes to us — it goes through secondary consciousness into primary

consciousness, and then it is already primary consciousness that presents it to Personality. This is for understanding of what follows what and why. Yes, and the key substitution is in self-identification — it is “us who think”. Here, the paradox is precisely in the fact that we perceive all of this as "it is us who think" and so on. However, we are Personalities. Personality doesn’t think; it doesn’t have an ability of a thinking process in the direct understanding, the way we regard it. It is primary consciousness that is able to think and reason. But again, without secondary

consciousness, all thoughts are reduced to almost a primitive state or to the consciousness of a primate: there will be very few thoughts and only about what is necessary, mainly with the domination of our desires. And a lot of emotions of a primate. Yes. And it is, again, caused by the emotional sphere. Hatred, enmity, envy — all this is in primary consciousness. Well, and craving: desires, urges, and everything else. While secondary consciousness is exactly what imposes a lot of different desires and interests on primary consciousness. It is what we perceive as ourselves. Most often, a person

associates himself precisely with secondary consciousness, even omitting primary consciousness. At the early stages, when he embarks on the spiritual path and really begins to study and observe, he observes the actions of secondary consciousness with the help of primary consciousness. Only afterwards, he can find the one who observes primary consciousness and can start developing already as Personality. And the more he develops as a Personality, the more he gets used to another way of not thinking, but perception. This is perception through feelings. It is, let’s say, akin to understanding the whole process without reasoning and imposing all

sorts of unnecessary thoughts as "maybe" or "somewhere out there." Well, it is, let’s say, something different… It is hard to express it, that’s the paradox. In reality, it is hard to express how Personality perceives the world. Well, it doesn’t perceive the world at all. It exists, and let it be. Well, Igor Mikhailovich, people might have the following Question from consciousness: "How is it, not thinking? What about the fact that we discourse about the spiritual? Thanks to the fact that we discourse in our thoughts or talk with someone out loud, we come to the spiritual." A

person never comes to the spiritual by discoursing about the spiritual. When a person discourses about the spiritual, he just discourses about the spiritual. He’s like the Awaiter (Homunculus loxodontus), sitting and discoursing. He is sitting and waiting for it to come. While Personality has the ability to move. That is, thanks to this inner impulse, the inner striving of Personality, A human is able to come to the Spiritual World, precisely thanks to that genuine thirst and that aspiration. For Personality, there is no space and there is no time. This is something different. Here, perhaps, we need one

more clarification because the next question will be "What does it mean to move on the spiritual path?" Because for an ordinary person in three-dimensionality, the notion of "moving" means that “I have to move in space.” Absolutely right. Here again, we are facing a paradox. In the understanding of consciousness, the very "movement towards the spiritual" Means that it is necessary to cover a distance or some space, or time, meaning, something must be overcome. Yet, what does Personality overcome on the way to the Spiritual World? Obstacles from consciousness, merely that. In other words, having moved away from

dependence on consciousness, having escaped from under its power or having broken free from its slavery, Personality becomes free, and then it can strive, let’s say, to merge into One light. Here, of course, we can find many epithets and associative examples, but all of them will be associated with the three-dimensional world, familiar to consciousness, and none of them will be accurate. Because it is something completely different, it’s not even a different physics, it is something far beyond physics, meaning, to become a single whole with the Spiritual World or become a part of it. What is important:

even having become a part of the Spiritual World, Personality retains its individuality, it becomes truly free. Here, it is also difficult for consciousness to understand: "What is freedom?", "What does it mean to become boundless while preserving one’s own individuality?" Well, again, we speak the associative language, and we use examples that are really difficult to convey. To put it simply, it’s better to do it than to hear about it. It’s better to reach there and see. Just start Living, then everything falls into place and becomes clear; this is easy, beautiful and interesting. It is also interesting

that a word actually has power. And, knowing about this sacrament, human consciousness simply manipulates the meaning of words. Even in science, the fact has been known already for a long time, that our brain, or it would be more accurate to say, our consciousness, confuses the process of conveying information about reality by means of language with the reality itself. Basically, this is one of the algorithms of such a subtle substitution and distortion from consciousness. Consciousness just works this way. So, as a person's speech develops or, as we understand now, as the functions of secondary consciousness develop,

consciousness already begins to code experience in words. That is why in the majority of cases we don’t even notice when words already become more real for us than the reality itself. But words are merely associations and symbols, it’s an attempt to convey in three-dimensionality the experience gained through feelings. Igor Mikhailovich says absolutely right that one should simply live by the spiritual reality inside oneself… There is a wonderful parable in the East on how a disciple asked his master about the purpose of words. And the master told him that “Words are a finger pointing at the

moon. But when you have seen the Moon, you need to forget about the finger.” Yes, when you go through all of this in practice, you already see this difference, which you simply haven’t noticed before, the difference in substitutions of the most crucial understandings. For example, when in practice, through the deepest feelings, You feel the reality of the Spiritual World, you understand that you actually experience this boundless happiness, you feel it. You understand that there are no wishes because there is everything there. And there is joy of boundless Love and a lot of opportunities. But this

is exactly a holistic, voluminous understanding which differs drastically from the understanding by consciousness. Roughly speaking, what does consciousness mean by the understanding of “having everything, having many opportunities”? For consciousness, it is to have a roof over one’s head, a house, an apartment, family comfort, A car and maybe a penny for food and clothes. Well, endless desires to “have everything,” meaning everything material, everything which is in three-dimensionality, everything which is mortal dust. And now you understand that the need “to have everything,” “to have many opportunities” and “to live in the joy of infinite Love,” actually comes

from Personality, from its desire to start Living, from its desire to truly start Living. But consciousness substitutes the understanding of it all and simply diverts your attention to what is mortal. For instance, previously you heard That the Spiritual World is some sort of light, and you imagined it all from your consciousness as you could, based on all the movies, other people’s images and stories that your earthly ears heard and your earthly eyes saw. After all, what is light in your consciousness’ imagination? It is like bright sunlight which breaks through the darkness of clouds, or simply

sunlight which comes to replace the dark of night. But now you understand, you feel, you know that there, in the Spiritual World, it is totally different: there is light there, in which shadows are not created, there is light there and no darkness. And it’s not what your consciousness imagines, As light which blinds or shines in the eyes. No, it is completely different… Or, as before, you read in a book and told others about it, that “the Spiritual world is boundless joy, filled with life and that it is peace.” But you yourself didn’t understand how happy

joy and peace can be combined simultaneously. Because according to the understanding of your consciousness, joy is an emotion, while peace is rest in dreams or sleep, or simply when your body is sitting on a chair and doing nothing. Meaning, these are merely like two different states of consciousness. And you realised only in practice what was meant by this concept. Because there, in the Spiritual world, there is indeed a living joy, there is a living vigour there, there is a full, constantly new and unique life in boundlessness, and at the same time, there is stability and

peace. And this is completely different from what your consciousness imagines in three-dimensionality. PERSONALITY KNOWS AND DOES NOT DOUBT T: Igor Mikhailovich, one of the important points in our conversation is an understanding of what a human is as Personality. Because now a lot of people don’t even suspect that when thinking or talking “about oneself”, in reality, in the majority of cases, a person simply voices problems And lies of his secondary consciousness and impressions from the movie which primary consciousness is playing for him. Could you, please, specify in more detail what primary and secondary consciousnesses are and

how they interact, and especially what secondary consciousness is? Secondary consciousness is like an antipode of Personality, it is nothing other than the same reflection, we already talked about this. When a Soul enters on the eighth day, a human becomes a human — a Personality appears in him. And, as an antipode of Personality, secondary consciousness emerges. It is indeed a very strong artificial intelligence. Why artificial? We already discussed it, because the whole system is created artificially. And both primary and secondary consciousnesses are nothing other than a part of the system. Secondary consciousness is more closely, almost

directly connected with what people call the Absolute or the Higher mind, or, as we say for convenience — the system, it may be called in different ways; in religion, it is called the devil. While consciousness, its patterns, in the past Were called genies, demons and suchlike. There was such an expression: “a demon got into someone.” Well, why would he get in, if he has already been living there for a long time? It is precisely secondary consciousness that criticizes and exposes to everything else. It is what we call intellect. It is what we actively develop when

studying in kindergarten, at school, in universities. This is exactly the development of secondary consciousness. And the more actively it is developed, the more tools it has. It doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be developed, On the contrary, it should be developed as much as possible. But you need to understand what it is. Primary consciousness is connected with both the body and Personality. While secondary consciousness is connected only with primary consciousness. And here an interesting point arises, that each of these consciousnesses considers itself as “I”. And between these consciousnesses, as paradoxical as it might be, there is

a struggle. But there is also opposition of both consciousnesses, each one separately and both of them together, against Personality. They fight for the power of attention, for those life-giving juices, Let’s put it in such a material language, which emanate from Personality, for that energy. It is like in an example: in order for a light bulb to be on, there needs to be electricity, if we turn electricity off — the light bulb will go out. As long as our Personality pays attention to what consciousness has offered us, consciousness is active. When we are busy with some

work, thinking, are focused on something, occupied or just actively involved in a conversation, or playing chess, or contemplating, it is exactly our secondary consciousness working. It is where a lot of information has to be processed and so on. And we always consider that it is exactly us. But if we think about it and start tracing how thoughts come… While thoughts, in fact, come mainly into secondary consciousness, all these flashing images — it is all going on there. But they are projected onto primary consciousness, that is, inside of us, let’s say, in our structure, primary consciousness

observes them. Personality does not observe them directly. But it is through primary consciousness that Personality already observes them. And it is exactly Personality which gives that power or that attention, let’s call this power attention, it directs this attention to cling to this thought or not, To activate it or not. But what is the paradox also in? Primary consciousness also considers itself as “I”. It is that little child who lives within every person. Even in an old academician, there lives a little kid. Psychologists and neurophysiologists know this well. I’m not even talking about political scientists. Look,

all the systems are developed for a child, for a little six-year-old kid. That's when they work. Why? Because all this is targeted at primary consciousness. Yes, at the consciousness which has stalled at a child’s level. And just now, Igor Mikhailovich, you have given an answer to one more question, unsolvable to psychologists until this moment. They look at the duality of a human from their material point of view. And what do they observe, what do they rack their brains over? That a human has several selves, and that there is a child even in the oldest and

the smartest person. Yes, I’ve recalled how you, Igor Mikhailovich, told us that in the past, people who were developing spiritually became wiser, calmer and more reasonable by old age because they already had a lot of experience in spiritual practice, the practice of taming their consciousness. So, they already firmly held their consciousness on a leash. They looked at the world already as mature Personalities, meaning in the spiritual sense, of course. There were peace and calm, the fullness of life by the Spiritual World in themselves. Thus, they lived by the richness and diversity of spiritual life. And

in the worldly life, in three-dimensionality, their external actions were a reflection of their inner state. Next generations addressed them for this deepest wisdom. These wise people cared for the same peace and calm that was in them to also reign in society. And for people not to have this desperate need for something material. So, equally with other people, they participated in the creation of conditions for prevention, for protection of society from the active influence of the system itself. They cared that not a single hair fell from the head of your child, that not a single child

went hungry. And this is, of course, incomparable to what is happening in society nowadays, where the keys to spiritual knowledge have been lost. Everything is exactly the other way around. Yes, alas… And what are the various techniques of manipulation with human consciousness based upon? Right now, unfortunately, this is a very popular topic Which is a part of everyday life of an average human: how to influence, how to secretly control, manipulate the consciousness of other people, how to control the crowd. What is all this based upon? Exactly on the influence on this child who lives within

every person, meaning, on the underdeveloped primary consciousness. If we look globally, what is going on in a person himself, in that very environment of his, in the micro-community? The same as in macro. Meaning, all religions, all political organizations, and all priestly organizations are based on this manipulation and such an influence. Everything is explained as if to an infant, meaning, as if to a child of 5 or 6 years of age. Of course. And no one knows why it is exactly this way and not otherwise. Why? Because in reality, primary consciousness has power over secondary consciousness,

or the new consciousness. It does have power over it. And when Personality is developing spiritually, how can it become free from all this? How does Personality function? After all, Personality, due to certain laws, Is in direct contact with primary consciousness. But again, human secondary consciousness dictates to the primate, meaning primary consciousness, and tells it, shows images, and then primary consciousness already presents it all to Personality. But when a person gains a certain degree of freedom by working on himself, he already begins to dictate and tell this consciousness of the primate what to do. In this

way, he controls consciousness entirely. So, can the devil be defeated? Not just can, but should be! And first of all, he should be defeated in oneself. He cannot be defeated in everyone. In everyone — it is up to every person. And we again come back to where we started. By defeating him in yourself, you have changed your world. And this is very important. But when there are many of such people, then society changes. Well, and then the overall power is lost, I mean the power of satan, and society becomes free. Well, this is the dream

of any society. That's the way it should be. CAN THE DEVIL BE DEFEATED? NOT JUST CAN, BUT SHOULD BE. AND FIRST OF ALL, HE SHOULD BE DEFEATED IN ONESELF. HE CANNOT BE DEFEATED IN EVERYONE. IN EVERYONE — IT IS UP TO EVERY PERSON. We spoke about this more than once, That consciousness as a part of the system always imposes, it is active, it forces, it compels, it tempts. While the Spiritual World simply is. It’s enough for a person to calm down, to move away from thoughts, and he realises that he can observe his thoughts. And

the one who observes is precisely Personality. And when he begins, as Personality, from the position of this observer, to put the power of attention into the Spiritual World, meaning, into perception through feelings of that which is beyond the verge of this three-dimensionality, then he starts seeing even better how thoughts try to control him, how they manipulate him. But when a person, indeed, studies it fairly well and realises that consciousness is not him, then naturally, it loses power over him. And here a person can choose and act. It doesn’t mean that life changes externally, but it

becomes full and interesting. Thus, a person gets rid of such notions as depression, psychological problems or something else — after all, it all belongs to the system. A simple example. How can a person have depression? Depression is one of the forms of such a complete egoistic self-love, I would even say, When “the entire world is bad, only I am good, nobody understands me, and I don’t need anything.” But at the same time, “everybody, pay attention to me, to the poor unhappy one.” Well, it is onlу one of the ways of manipulation. Zh: …of the system

attracting attention. Of course, aspiration for power. A simple question: can Personality be involved in this? Of course, not. Because the first thing a person begins to experience is a constant presence of joy. Well, it is “joy” in our earthly words, After all, we have to associate it with something. But it is infinite, it is boundless, it is what is called happiness. And to gain happiness is exactly to gain Life. It’s exactly the meaning of human existence here. If a person has lived a life and hasn’t started Living, he is here in vain. While there is

an understanding, after all, Personality has not gone anywhere. It has comprehension, but it is underdeveloped; as it was a child, so it remained a child. And such excessive activation, I would say, hyper-development of consciousness, simply beats a person up, and he becomes… not even a slave, he becomes a zombie: he does everything that consciousness dictates to him. He’s just a tool in the devil’s hands, no more. Yes, the one who is controlled by consciousness is controlled by fear, hatred and understanding of inevitability, and he lives by patterns… Of course. The first thing he begins to

do is to deny everything that is spiritual, or he manipulates the spiritual to his own advantage. Yes, sects and religious cults are created, And people say that “God wants it that way.” But, as a matter of fact, the process of enslaving Personality is taking place. Even if people strive for God, the system sets up authorities on their path, who simply make profit on people. They cover their earthly interests by saying that “This is pleasing to God”, that “God wants it so” or “God said so.” Meaning, they manipulate this for their selfish, political or economic goals

in three-dimensionality. How can one use God as a cover, use God’s name? Or “God wants it, so give it”?! Of course, it is wonderful if a person wants to help his religious organisation. But why say that “God wants it so” if you don’t know God? Why would God need your money? A simple question. Well, isn’t it so? Zh: …If His nature is completely different. Of course… He doesn’t have any interest in three-dimensionality, in the material world at all, even more so in three-dimensionality. But some people will be outraged: ”How?! After all, we were born here,

Meaning, we were born here by the will of God.” But if you think that you were born here by the will of God, then pray to your mom and dad. That means they are your God. I will explain: if you have come to this world, and have come according to the understanding of your consciousness “by the will of God”, then know that you have come to this world due to the desires and efforts of your mom and dad. This is like when they say ”in the image and likeness”, this distinction: that there are "body, consciousness

and mind", and there is the "breath of life" which you have mentioned. Absolutely right, and what actually is the invisible part which was brought here by Angels according to God’s Will. Meaning, Soul, Personality and the possibility of Life beginning. And really, this is indeed fair; this is the supreme fairness and the highest degree of person’s freedom. He can choose whom to serve: he can choose death, service to satan and an illusion of importance, or he can become an Angel, meaning an immortal Being, equal among equals, an integral part of the world of God. After all,

this is interesting, and this is fair. Personality is the Spirit which has freedom of choice. For many people who encounter the Knowledge for the first time, this will be revealing information that the one who travels in space, moves around, the one who makes some action, for example, drives a car, eats, thinks — this is not a person, this is not he as Personality. In order to find yourself, it's enough to calm down. We have already talked about this. And to watch "your own" thoughts, "your own" actions, in quotation marks "your own". And here again, we

will see how thoughts come, we will feel these thoughts, their coming. And we will feel how "I don’t want to think about it", But the thought sneaks in, "I don’t want to talk about it," but I talk. And the one who "doesn't want to" is precisely Personality. Here, from this little hook, you start getting to know yourself. The paradox is that you cannot see Personality in the mirror. In the mirror, we see nothing other than temporarily existing, the material shell. Yes, it's good when a person understands and is aware of this. But when spiritual Knowledge

is lost in society, then the system, already starting from a person's childhood, tries to enslave the new Personality through primary consciousness. So it imposes that the reflection in the mirror — this is supposedly you: Meaning, you are the body, you are consciousness, and thoughts are all yours, you see yourself. Thus, it gives these mindsets of material identification so that Personality focuses all of its life's attention not on its spiritual self-development, but on the false self from consciousness in three-dimensionality, where there is power and consumption of the system. Many young parents believe that a child, a

baby supposedly doesn’t have an attitude towards this world, meaning, he hasn’t yet learned to lie, he doesn’t know how to express those emotions which take root in the older age as patterns. But this is only until his consciousness has developed at least a little bit. But as soon as secondary consciousness begins to develop in a child, the first thing we observe is an egoistic manifestation and manipulative moods. That is, the child begins to live the earthly life. The first thing he does is he adapts. He begins to manipulate. He doesn’t know how to talk yet,

but he knows that if he cries, things will be as he wants. Isn’t it so? When he is bored, he begins to act up, and he gets picked up, Meaning, someone pays attention to him. And that's where it all begins. Yes, in fact, even a baby already has mechanisms for hidden control of adults — it is child's crying that resounds at such frequencies that it causes discomfort for listeners and impels adults to act to satisfy the child’s needs, for the most part, the needs of his primary consciousness, of his body in three-dimensionality. Later on, when

the child is growing up, what kind of states can be observed in him? It is a wonder at something in three-dimensionality, Very emotional, cheerful or, vice versa, a very depressed, oppressed state. While the parent is mostly in an arrogant, "super-righteous", anxious, or irritable state. And the voice tone? Accusatory, patronizing, critical, or repressing. So, in fact, there takes place training of primary consciousness, the dominant consciousness of the child, by secondary consciousness, the dominant consciousness of the parent. But if adults developed spiritually themselves, there would actually be more true deep inner feelings and Love, even in spite

of provocations coming from the developing consciousness of a child. After all, Personality would be developing at the same time. Meaning, parents would be a demonstrable, good spiritual example for their children. Both parents and children would benefit. And you are absolutely right that the system, in fact, from the very childhood trains a child to attract attention to himself. And this is connected with the development of primary and secondary consciousness. So, starting from a person's childhood, the system prepares a slave for itself. Well, yes, and it teaches a child that the voice in his head, these programs-actors

from consciousness — this is all him: it is his voice, these are his thoughts, These are his fantasies… I recall the time when you, Igor Mikhailovich, told us that after the primary surge, an intensive development of secondary consciousness begins in children. Absolutely right. All of this can be traced in children at the age of 3 to 7 years old, when they begin to exhibit vivid imagination, images, pictures, "I-wants", greed. That is, when intensive development of secondary consciousness takes place. Of course. And then we see: children grow up, it’s one family, children are a year in

age apart, for example, and one is an egoist, the other one is kind, he is doted on. Who is to blame? This is an interesting question. "The child was just born like this." You cannot say that they have different upbringing, they have absolutely the same upbringing. Their parents are wonderful. They are raised since childhood with the highest moral values and ethical norms in the human understanding, but a person grows up either a drug addict or a scoundrel, this often happens. Why does this happen? "This is the influence of the streets or someone else." Well, no.

This is all a part of the development of consciousness. And everything starts from that moment when secondary consciousness begins to develop. I would also like to add regarding the fact that when secondary consciousness develops, from childhood, the system teaches a child to draw attention to himself. When you first told us about this, it was very easy to read scientific works on studying the psychology of children with this key of knowledge and, in general, to understand more than what is described there, to understand the real cause of one or another behaviour of a child. It was

even easy for myself to answer the questions Which scientists ask themselves. For instance, about the paradoxicality of children's conversations. Unlike adults, for a child, a word is close to an action. When, for example, two children are talking, it’s like a monologue together: each of them persistently tries to connect the other to his thought or to his action, but at that, he doesn’t strive to be heard. The child is talking as if to himself, as if he is thinking out loud. Absolutely right. …And he believes that everyone else perceives the world around exactly the way he

perceives it. A child of this age is in the process of constant monologue. He is interested neither in a companion’s point of view nor in his thoughts. A child doesn’t actually care about being heard or understood. The key characteristic of his thinking at this stage is just pronounced egocentrism. A companion for him is just a stimulus! Only this visible interest of a companion is important to the child. Zh: Yes, exactly. Meaning, to put it simply — “to steal” attention; a hunt for attention is taking place. It’s a common situation when adults talk about something, And

a child stands up in the middle and starts asking for something or saying something, acting out, thereby drawing the attention of all adults to himself. The system first teaches how to seize attention, then how to manipulate it, then it turns it into a constant action, forming it into a certain system. Well, and naturally, as a result of the subsequent development of secondary consciousness, a child can already actively think up all sorts of situations, imagine objects which do not exist in reality, and claim it as reality. But the fact is that for a child, very often,

These fantasies of his are the same reality as something that surrounds us is for us. It’s only the work of his consciousness. Yes, and here’s also an interesting point about the reaction to criticism. In response to criticism from another consciousness, secondary consciousness already activates defence mechanisms… Absolutely right. …it actually regards what is happening as a threat. Already from childhood, the system accustoms a person to “I”. “I” as the centre of his egoism, “I” as pridefulness. That’s why it imposes such micro-contests, meaning, contests in an argument and the like. Meaning, such contests in an argument, where

a small person in all seriousness, by investing the power of attention, is attempting to ascertain: who, he or his companion, has a greater ability to impose his thought on the other one. And what does this mean for children? To simply demonstrate one more time who dominates over whom. And such children’s behaviour is similar to the behaviour of monkeys. It’s a costly, exhausting process for a person and a super profitable one for the Animal mind system. Here is where precious human attention is flowing out to. Yes, that’s right. As a consequence, later on, a grown-up person

has these endless contests in his consciousness for the dominance of his ego in the material world. And naturally, what will a person choose after such a training? He will defend the mythical “truth” from the illusion of the system and, already in his consciousness, will decry everything spiritual because he is simply not familiar with it since childhood. Zh: Well, yes. Such a person is not aware that he is Personality. For him, the notion of “Personality” is completely different, it is what is interpreted by the system: it is his consciousness, it is his egoism, His pridefulness imposed

on him since childhood by his own consciousness. This way the system simply produces slaves for itself. It is clear that secondary consciousness has to be developed for communication and survival in the modern conditions of three-dimensionality. But again, without the dominance in society of the spiritual foundations in daily life, moreover, in practice and not just in words, a child grows up an egoist. And the system accustoms him to using his consciousness for, let’s say, gaining personal benefits and for dominating others. Meaning, lying even to oneself, from the beginning. Yes, the system accustoms a person to lie

even to himself since childhood. Well, and consequently, what happens in such a case? Later, one needs to make tremendous efforts to retrain oneself and change at all. And it becomes clear why people make the same mistakes. Because primary consciousness doesn’t really want to be retrained and to change, while secondary consciousness doesn’t change all the more. You should understand that primary consciousness, as well as secondary consciousness, are parts of the system. And the system doesn’t want to lose power over Personality. That’s true. But what is interesting is that sometimes spiritual wisdom Comes through in children as

well, despite all the pressure of the system. During the first years of a child’s life, primary consciousness is developing more intensively, and it dominates over secondary consciousness, as we already mentioned before, secondary consciousness begins to develop actively after the primary surge. At this age, a child simply possesses spiritual freedom to a greater extent, meaning, Personality is not so enslaved by patterns. Therefore, sometimes this wisdom comes through. At this age, children are more prone to perception through feelings, to feeling the Truth, to the Truth which they, unfortunately, do not receive from adults nowadays. Yes, there’s no

practice here either. What do they receive at best from their parents? A theory, an interpretation from secondary consciousness of some elements of one or another religion practised by their parents, or postulates of their atheistic outlook. And what can secondary consciousness tell a child about God? It says that “God is a man with a beard, sitting somewhere up there in the clouds.” And the child already redirects the search for what he has inside to the search in the external. Later on, all his life, he is seeking where in the external is the way home. From here

grows the root of all doubts and, in the end, Disappointment from the illusory images of three-dimensionality. For example, let’s take Christianity. In religious interpretations of the Bible, in the topic about the work on oneself, the phrase from the Gospel of Matthew is mentioned, saying that “Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.” And here ”be converted to God” is interpreted as a lifestyle change, but again, it is understood at the level of thoughts in three-dimensionality. Yes, it is emphasized there that you should address “with all

your heart”, in some interpretations it is mentioned that the word ”heart” is an allegory and in the Bible it mainly means the essence of human Personality, Concentration of the soul and the spirit, again, concentration means directing the power of attention. It is said that the main cause of human life is written in “our hearts” and “it is precisely the heart that makes a spiritual decision about the attitude towards God.” It turns out that everything is there, only the keys to understanding are substituted, and without practice a person no longer knows what his soul is in

reality, what Spirit is, what he is as Personality — Personality whose real life has nothing to do with illusory three-dimensionality. But when you are aware of this Knowledge, then you also see the grain which was put into these words. That very expression “become as little children” — it was exactly meant when Personality is more free from the pressure of consciousness and is closer to perception through feelings. Absolutely right. A child is indeed closer to God. Why? Consciousness develops, but less actively, and Personality is freer, not so dependent on consciousness. Therefore, sometimes children say such wise

things that are appropriate for an old man who is about to die. Why are old people also more open sometimes? Although not all of them. They can be bad-tempered or aloof. All his life, he was a wonderful person, but in old age, he becomes too preoccupied because he understands that the meaning of life is not in building a house, giving birth to a child or something else. He has lived out his life, there is already nothing ahead, but he hasn’t comprehended the main thing. And what is the main thing? It turns out, the main thing

is precisely to start Living. He was running about all his life, and for nothing, in vain. Yet, we already touched on this in the video, That life rushes by like one day. The same as yesterday, your entire life will pass for you, I’m speaking figuratively, for people. It will become yesterday literally today. In this lies the problem — the illusion of time. It seems there is a long time, "there are still years ahead…" While you should live so that every day, every moment, you are ready to leave, but for you it must be a reward.

Yet, you cannot accelerate this process; a person doesn't have a right. Yet, everything is simple: if you made a decision to Live, then just start Living right now. If you put it off for a moment — consciousness will surely take advantage of this. There is such a notion, we are touching on it here, as the notion of "service to the world of God." And here it begins — what is service to God? Yes, today many people understand this only from a position of consumers. They live inside themselves by consciousness, and not by the spirit; they

live by three-dimensionality. Yes, meaning, they are sitting, repeating a prayer, and this is what we started our conversation with — they live to the dictation of consciousness. And by means of consciousness, They jabber or read the list of their wishes to the Lord God, inserting praising odes to Him at that. You know, as if they were addressing their earthly parents, as they are used to: "I want a car" or "a doll", or something else. Zh: …To gain personal benefit. IM: Absolutely right. Meaning, a consumerist attitude to God. The worst thing possible. That is, totally, not

just a distorted concept of service… …And note, the most interesting thing here is that many people say, "If you get sick, pray and you will recover." You prayed and, yes, you recovered. But what did you ask for? Something material. Thus, based on the commonplace understanding of the division into satan and God, into two components, you prayed with consciousness "to God", and your body recovered. So which god sent you your health after a prayer? Was it the God Eternal? No. It actually turns out that your health, like your body and your consciousness, is in satan's power.

He can take away your health, and he can give it. God will not take away your health, and even more so, he will not send you illnesses. What for? But again, consciousness says: "You are actually God’s child created in His image and likeness. And He constantly watches only you every day." As if He has nothing else to do. "But He is God. He is Almighty. He has many eyes; He watches everyone… And He has a lot of ears. He listens to what you think about and what you talk about." But what you think and talk

about is actually known to whom? Again, to the one who is called satan. And why does he know what you think about? Because these are his programs, this is his world, and he is the one who wrote these programs which are implanted in your consciousness like in a computer. Yes, everything is dead in the system. There is simply no Life, there is only illusion and games of consciousness. Some actors of consciousness play the role of patrons, others of petitioners. But where are people themselves in this? Where is Life in them? IF YOU MADE A DECISION

TO LIVE, THEN JUST START LIVING RIGHT NOW You look at this entire obscurantism in the world and… it is just human foolishness to the dictation of consciousness. Once, a very long time ago, I came across a handwritten record of a church council, where they tried to figure out how many Angels are in the heavens. I mean, human consciousness, A lot of clever men were busy with trying to count the number of Angels in the Infinite, Boundless World. The limited consciousness of several people tried to count the infinite and boundless number of Angels. It's a paradox.

But I am still under the impression from that. What's the point of all this? What kind of megalomania this consciousness has, I mean the system as a whole! And why does a human always consider himself godlike exactly at the level of consciousness? Yet, he has only requests towards the Spiritual World, but gives nothing in return. T: Just a list. Well, most often, fear arises as well, meaning, fear of realising that he exists, when Personality is active, a person feels this. Fear arises, fear of death. And a person already seeks at least to attain Peace in

order to avoid suffering. He tries to somehow reconcile with religions, with representatives of religions, but again, these are all games of consciousness. Well, what can you do? That's what the world is like. So, consciousness deceives a person. As a matter of fact, consciousness is just an intermediary between Personality and the three-dimensional world. But it can never act as an intermediary between Personality and the Spiritual World. Because the dead knows only about the dead. Absolutely. This is what makes a human dual. On the one hand, he is tied to three-dimensionality, to the material world. But on

the other hand, there is also a Spiritual nature in a human, which belongs to the Spiritual World and helps a person to become the one who, for example, in religion is called an Angel, meaning, an immortal and spiritual Being. But notice also — an incorporeal being, and this is important too. Zh: Yes. After a person’s death, let’s say, not a single consciousness can enter the Spiritual World. Сonsciousness doesn’t perceive the Spiritual World at all. And those people who practise seriously and have experience, not faith, I emphasize, but the experience of contact with the Spiritual World,

they have an understanding, Even at the level of consciousness, that something is happening. But even to describe correctly with words in three-dimensionality what they feel, just how Personality perceives the Spiritual World — that’s extremely difficult. Again, there comes “happiness,” all these usual epithets and expressions of something wonderful and boundless. But we cannot describe it in detail. Although at the level of Personality, such people understand and know this well, they are happy, joyful, but they cannot describe it. We were talking about duality, and it’s interesting that... We were talking about duality, and it’s interesting that in

many religions, especially in Orthodoxy, such a notion is found as “inner and outer person.” Regarding the outer person, basically, everything is clear, everyone identifies him with a body. But the inner person, the person who… I know it even from personal experience, that if I had not come in contact with the Knowledge, if I had not had the experience through feelings and the understanding that Personality is Spirit and one can communicate with God only this way, then, most likely, by the inner person, I would have understood that which is not voiced, simply some thoughts inside in

the head… Absolutely right. Essentially, the work of primary and secondary consciousness. So, again, that primary consciousness would be understood, meaning, consciousness of the primate, which controls the new (secondary) consciousness. Of course, either pridefulness from consciousness of a primate or thoughts from secondary consciousness. Because mostly, it is secondary consciousness that performs whole scenes with its actors: how your search for God should be carried out in three-dimensionality And what your spiritual path should look like as imagined by consciousness. Yet, these thoughts are not you, these are lies of the system. And here, the most important thing is

to understand and figure out who you are in reality. Right. Secondary consciousness is indeed very active, and it is mainly what we consider ourselves to be. Let’s say, if we simply calm down and observe how thoughts come to us. Just close our eyes, relax and observe who is giving us these thoughts. At first, we hear arguments; we see that something is happening, some images appear, Meaning, life continues to go on. The question is: who observes these images which appear? It is exactly primary consciousness. At the moment of falling asleep, but when we are not asleep

yet, and the activity of consciousness still goes on, at this moment we can actually observe the activity of secondary consciousness. And thanks to such observation, we can realise that we have two “I’s,” but not the true “I”. And once we have learned to observe this process, we can also simultaneously learn to feel, meaning, to perceive the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings — this is perception of the Spiritual World through feelings. When a person develops spiritual vision, then, as we have said, a solid table or a solid cup ceases to be solid and have such

a shape. The illusion disappears. And we already see all this as some sort of clots, field structures, banally up to the sixth dimension. While the Soul is beyond the sixth dimension. Consequently, everything that is connected with it is also within the threshold, so to say. Personality leaves for the seventh dimension consciously, when it merges with the Soul. I would say, it is on the verge, Meaning, very very close to the Spiritual World. But when we already identify ourselves, meaning, get free from the illusion of matter, from the system itself, from these consciousnesses, we can observe

them, we can control them, here already arises, let’s say, not an understanding, but experience. And Personality begins to develop, moreover, quickly and actively. “What does it mean to develop?” — here many will ask the question. Perhaps, I will clarify a little bit. In reality, human Personality practically doesn’t develop in the modern world… Yes, there are too many distractions from consciousness in the modern world. And people do not even set a goal To get liberated from the power of consciousness and to create better conditions for the spiritual maturation of other generations. Absolutely right. Tell me, who

takes care of the development of their child’s Personality in the spiritual sense? Those pictures from various religious publications, conversations about God, what is this? This is, again, like bots talk about God. Yes, young parents simply teach their child what they themselves were taught. And if there is no personal spiritual experience, if they don’t multiply spiritual Love in themselves, If their perception of the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings is not developed, then it is only empty talk and nothing but teachings of theory from consciousness, but without the practice of multiplying Love by the Spirit in

oneself. Of course, they would probably be happy to do it another way, if they only knew how. But they were taught by consciousness, to simply believe and hope, but not to live here and now by what is real and innermost. Again, we return to what: “Do I believe or do I not believe?” Belief is not Knowledge. Belief is a hope that there will possibly be something. Personality can perceive God; consciousness cannot perceive God. Consciousness can only believe or not believe. Belief only theoretically admits a possibility of His existence. However, Personality will always be on the

side of God, while consciousness — against God. And here, it is precisely primary consciousness that plays the determining role. If primary consciousness is controlled by the system or by secondary consciousness, then Personality is doomed. If Personality controls primary consciousness, it can study the very system from the outside. That’s the only way to study the system without damage to health, without damage to your consciousness, let's say. This is a key point exactly for those who try to study consciousness by means of personal experience or scientifically. Because otherwise, to study the system while being in it… Well,

experience shows, we already talked about it, that it doesn’t lead to anything good when you study the system while being in the system. We can only observe and receive that information which the system itself will allow us, but not more than that. Yet, this will always be beneficial for it, not for us as Personality, but for it, as a mortal being, as opposed to us, as a potentially possibly immortal being. And here the question is: “Why potentially possibly immortal?” Personality, when it becomes free from the slavery of consciousness, from matter, and cognizes the Spiritual World,

then it, getting closer, becomes a single whole with the Soul; it becomes that which is now called an Angel. In ancient religions, it was called differently, but the essence doesn’t change because of that. A human becomes the one he is supposed to be — an immortal Being and, naturally, after the death of the body, being already an Angel, he cannot die, he gets liberated as a mature beingfiguratively speaking, like a butterfly from a cocoon, and goes over to the Spiritual World. It doesn’t mean that he flies away somewhere or something else. It is for our

consciousness that it’s necessary to fly or move somewhere. The Spiritual World is Endless, Boundless, and it is everywhere, simply a little bit higher, so to say. While consciousness simply disappears when Personality becomes free. But this is not beneficial for consciousness because it identifies itself as “I”, and it’s not beneficial for the very system. Because consciousness, pardon me for such a primitive comparison — it is like a milking machine for the system, which is connected to a cow (Personality) and through it milk, the power of Personality’s attention — the powers of Allat, is extracted as a

food product (of the system). Consciousness is nothing else but a tool for the existence of the system itself, or the Absolute, or, as people call it, the Higher Mind, it is an enhanced way for its nutrition, which gives it life. Thus, the system is interested that Personality doesn’t become liberated during its lifetime. Igor Mikhailovich, many people also come up with such a question, they wonder: what is reincarnation? What is the rebirth of the soul? Now, let’s touch upon the issue of reincarnation, or the rebirth of the soul. What is the rebirth of the soul, if

we talk about it in a simplified way? When Personality was not developing, It could not merge with the Spiritual World, let’s say, it is non-viable, then consciousness is preserved, it identifies itself, it continues to work as that same milking machine, but it transitions into a little bit different state, together with that which we call the soul. For physicists, it is more clear, it’s like an energy-and-information structure that passes, figuratively speaking, from one vessel, the destroyed body, into another (the new body). The vessel (the old body) is destroyed, then a new Personality is created when the

soul enters (a new body), and a new consciousness emerges. But since the soul hasn’t left this world, it is being used, the reincarnation takes place, then, naturally, the previous Personality and those two active consciousnesses, which suppress, also remain. And in this state, a person experiences what is called “the torments of hell.” He experiences them more at the level of consciousness than Personality, at the level of primary consciousness. Notice, it is simply easier for secondary consciousness here because there is an understanding of this state. While at the level of primary consciousness, there is precisely pain, sufferings

and so on, and all the unpleasant sensations. People may ask: “How can there be pain if there is no body?” I would compare this to the effect when a limb is missing, for example, a person doesn’t have a leg, but the toes on the foot are aching, this is called “phantom pain”. And this is also similar to… people who experienced strokes, when they were in the body, but couldn’t contact this world. They didn’t even have a perception of the body as such, but a clear awareness, an understanding of anything and everything remained. This is exactly

what the state of subpersonality is. Meaning, everything that you have accumulated during your lifetime, all that active stuff which you lived by will accompany you during, possibly, many reincarnations, until some Personality appears Which becomes liberated, and then all the structures are destroyed or, speaking the modern language, until there is complete annihilation, meaning, everything is erased entirely. PERSONALITY WILL ALWAYS BE ON THE SIDE OF GOD, WHILE CONSCIOUSNESS — AGAINST GOD T: Igor Mikhailovich, touching upon the topic of world conspiracy, you mentioned that there are priestly structures which have been dreaming of the ninth day for far

more than one century. IM: What is the ninth day? The system’s dream of the ninth day actually asserts That if a Soul does not enter a human body as a vessel on the eighth day, the vessel will remain empty, as the Soul will no longer be able to enter on the ninth day. And the system will create and cultivate in this defective human that which the system calls "god" — an immortal, materially manifested being which will be equal in force to God, meaning, it will be able to create other illusions and maintain this illusion endlessly,

or an anti-god, so to say. T: Many people who are not informed of this issue may have doubts about the fact that there are secret organizations in the modern world, which deal with the “Ninth Day” project. But for those who are interested, I can give a hint: take a look at who initiated and sponsored studies all over the world on in vitro conception of a human and who advanced science in this direction. IM: That's a good hint. T: …Who was interested in this and why? IM: Yes… The system always opposes itself to God. It makes

people regard the very system as God. T: Well, this desire of the system is really seen through its slaves, when some people, being aware of all their worthlessness as a slave, clearly demonstrate to others, strive for, dream and want to be viewed by other people as the ones who are called and regarded as gods. They often tell others that they have attained much in the Spiritual World, and they present themselves nearly as an embodiment of God Himself in a body. By and large, hubris. By the way, this is precisely what an arrogant person was called

in Ancient Greece, the one who was full of pridefulness — a hubris. Zh: Unfortunately, these hrubises… or more precisely hubrises can be met even now. T: Yes. All this actually exposes the face of the system which broadcasts through them, an aspiration of the very system to liken itself to God. That is, something petty and worthless is trying to liken itself to the Great and Boundless. And if we speak using the examples from Christianity, It is like obscurants of simony in their desire to rule over the Holy Spirit. IM: This very paradox is preserved. Why? Because

there is simply a fight for survival of the system itself. After all, it creates such conditions for its own manipulation of itself. T: But such a day cannot come, can it? IM: Well, as to whether the ninth day can come or not, I will repeat once again: everything here is material, the system exists only within the limits of six dimensions. In the seventh dimension, it no longer exists. And above the six dimensions, There are 66 more dimensions which will not allow this to happen. For a figurative understanding at the level of consciousness, I will give

an example of what this world is. Just imagine a flower, any flower, it doesn’t matter what kind, for instance, a chamomile. Have you imagined a chamomile? And now imagine that the chamomile has disappeared and a bird has appeared instead of it. Have you imagined? So, for the Spiritual world, this world is like that chamomile Which you imagined and immediately forgot; it is momentary and illusory. That’s the point. But for people as Personalities, this world is nothing other than either a springboard for a jump into Life Eternal or a chasm to long-term torment. The choice is

up to people. It is possible to choose here, of course. But in order to choose, it is necessary to know what you choose. And in order to know, you should have experience. And in order to have experience, you should work on yourself. Consciousness says that you shouldn’t change anything inside yourself, you should just study and know something about the external in three-dimensionality. Sometimes it says what you need to do: to repeat some meditations, exercises or something else, whatever you do. Yet, without a profound work on yourself precisely from the position of understanding and knowing all

these processes, without searching for the Spiritual World inside yourself, nothing will happen. You will not find the Spiritual World in the external. It is only possible to find the Spiritual World inside oneself Because a path to it lies through a person. We already repeatedly spoke about this in many videos, and before us, many had spoken about it many times. Until a person puts effort into this, he will never be able to come closer to the Spiritual World. And the most difficult and the simplest thing is that, first of all, a person should understand, realise and

perceive himself as Personality. He should find himself as the one who he is. And he should come to see these actors in his consciousness, who distract him and make him do whatever, telling him: “If you get distracted, how will you manage without us? You will fall down.” You will not fall down — on the contrary, you will fly up. Until a person realises this and starts working on himself, he will not learn the most complicated and the simplest thing — to be happy, to be Alive, simply to be, and not to exist. To be happy,

to be Alive, simply to be, and not to exist IM: When people study the system a little bit, meaning, they really begin to engage in their spiritual development… I don’t mean the modern approach to understanding of “spiritual development”, which is to sit in a meditation or prayer And wait for something to happen, but when a person gets up and goes, when he really begins to study himself. As it is said, “If you haven’t studied the enemy, you won’t be able to defeat him.” T: Yes, as they wrote in ancient times, the meaning of human existence

here is precisely to gain victory over oneself, to defeat the human enemy inside oneself. IM: This is paradoxical, but it is so. Then you become a Human, And that door which we talked about opens in front of you. So, when a person strives to approach this door in order to get out, he begins to observe. First of all, to study: “How does a thought arise, and how is it controlled?” And the first thing he understands is that where he invests the power of his attention, or, as they said in that very Zoroastrianism, where he directs

a thought, or what he concentrates on, that’s the state he begets in himself. And what is concentration? It’s an investment of attention. We can play with words here, but the essence will not change because of that. T: So, Personality perceives three-dimensionality and situations in it in the way primary consciousness presents them to it. Figuratively speaking, this is when, for example, you are working in the office, and your unscrupulous accountant is constantly peeking in and distracting you with his talks, but at the same time, he sneaks in some papers for you to sign. And mostly, he

certainly lies about what is actually happening at the enterprise. Moreover, every time, in order to get further funding from you as much as possible, he tells you situations so that you would believe him, that it is supposedly your life, that all these are your problems, and not what he made up for his own benefit. And so, in this allegory, the unscrupulous accountant is precisely primary consciousness that surreptitiously works both for Personality and for secondary consciousness. But at the same time, It always pursues solely its own material interests. While funding is exactly Personality’s attention. IM: Basically,

this is true. We focus our attention on something, meaning, we invest the power of our attention — we pay for this show that our consciousness is playing out for us, and actors in our head begin to stir. They start talking about this or that. But can a human call forth at least one word out of himself? No! And here again, we are faced with the fact that since A human cannot articulate a single word by himself, then who is a human? Is he consciousness? No, he is Personality. So, in reality, a human is Personality. Consciousness

can speak, communicate. If we remove our consciousness, if we turn it off, you and I will not be able to talk verbally like this. Why? Because Personality, as we already said, does not interact with the three-dimensional world, but it does interact with primary consciousness. T: Yes, with primary consciousness. And in fact, primary consciousness is like a bundle of everything taken together. On the one hand, it is constantly attacked by secondary consciousness with a swarm of obsessive thoughts, various provocations for agitation of various emotional states. Zh: Yes, and this is tracked well when you work on

yourself. I can even say from personal experience that this provocative wave from secondary consciousness is barely noticeable, but it can be felt. T: Yes. Zh: And you can feel when it is slowly coming over: There arises a sort of alertness, such a subtle change of mood to something not quite good. In other words, some kind of agitation arises, sometimes with a touch of sadness, some kind of barely perceptible melancholy. It is barely noticeable, yet recognizable. You know exactly, and you already understand that the system will now start simply playing a movie for you. Then, following

this provocative wave, the first impressive shot will come, meaning, some kind of a clip-art picture, then a voice in your head, Meaning, some thought comes. But without your attention, this thought is just lifeless; it is empty. And it sounds like you've suddenly recalled something or "let's think about it, just like that." T: Yes, these comparisons and equalizers from consciousness. Zh: Right. But at that moment, it is exactly you who chooses: to pay attention to it or not. And depending on your choice, the situation develops further. For example, a waft, familiar to you, has come from

secondary consciousness, then these pictures come from primary consciousness, Then thoughts, like, to be offended at something or not. And if you pay attention to this thought, that is, you begin to activate pridefulness, start to either play with this thought or seriously consider or savour it, meaning, invest all your attention in it, then already after a short while, you just feel like you've been beaten up with sticks because you already resent the whole world, you are all so sad, all in frustration, in self-pity, in blown-up pridefulness. Thus, emotions already overwhelm you, And the system simply eats.

But if consciousness offers you "to be offended or not," and you choose: "Heck with this three-dimensionality with all these… with the bookkeeper and with hrubises!", and you simply plunge into this joy of the deepest feelings; then all situations pass as if they never happened. And you understand that those were merely provocations of the system with its illusions, and nothing more. But most importantly, you have defended your choice, Defended the choice as Personality and didn’t act as a slave of consciousness. IM: That's right. T: Primary consciousness is, on the one hand, a swarm of thoughts and

emotional states from secondary consciousness. And on the other hand, it is everything related to the work of primary consciousness itself: starting from pridefulness and a whole array of destructive feelings and states coming from the Animal nature, such as hatred, envy, and enmity, Up to its interaction through the brain with the body, it is all sorts of bodily sensations, its illnesses, emotions, everything that it hears and sees in a limited range in three-dimensionality. And so, there goes such a full-scale attack on Personality from the side of consciousness. Yet, as it turns out, what does, let’s say,

a "sleeping", unawakened Personality enslaved by consciousness know about three-dimensionality? Only that which primary consciousness presents to it: all this illusion of information, contrived situations and emotional states From the Animal nature. In essence, the deception by what is seen and heard. For example, it is known that 90% of information from the three-dimensional world comes through the eyes. So, consciousness tells Personality that supposedly "you see this with your own eyes." But that’s a lie! Because it is consciousness perceiving through the body, through the optical system of the eyes. And what are eyes? It is sort of a

little monopolist, Such a monopoly supplier of visual information. So, eyes are not windows to the world, they are the window leaves of the brain, which are, moreover, under control of primary consciousness. Because everything that we believe that "we supposedly see" is a lie. Eyes simply perceive only the visible part of the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation, and only in a very small range of view. Besides, all this is transformed into electrical impulses and enters primary consciousness already through the brain. And only after that, primary consciousness gives Personality a limited picture Of a situation in three-dimensionality, moreover

with its corrections and set emphases. Meaning, in its interpretation, highlighting some details which are crucial for consciousness itself and omitting information that is less interesting to it. Zh: Right. And what is less interesting to consciousness? As a rule, it is everything that doesn’t give such an impressive picture for draining attention; it is everything that can free a person from consciousness' slavery. T: Yes, it’s just a "broken telephone" game, when at one end, one thing was said, But at the other end, it comes out with such distortions that it is even difficult to understand what it

was initially. In other words, primary consciousness, like a computer, almost instantaneously solves a whole series of tasks, creating an illusion as it goes and presenting it as “reality”. Let’s say, the so-called “reality”, because even for the world of matter, for the system, reality is physics of primary energies, it is a hunt for the powers of Allat. While the rest is just illusions created by the system itself as animal traps. So, it merely seems to us that we perceive the surrounding world, But in actual fact, Personality doesn’t have eyes. IM: Personality doesn’t possess this phenomenon at

all, it doesn’t have that kind of eyes. T: Yes, like the body has, because Personality is a Spirit. IM: Absolutely right. Zh: Yes, Personality has a completely different perception. Now you recall: how did you live previously, when consciousness was your only reality? It was actually some kind of nightmare, while you thought that “life is really like this.” You lived like a paralyzed invalid with one-channel TV, Which created in your existence an illusion of life, but not life itself. You lived the way many people live nowadays. You lived by what this channel showed you, and it

showed what it wanted. You lived in the state of illusion of eternal melodrama of your own short stories imposed by this channel. But later, when I started working on myself really seriously in practice, I realised that this channel turns out to be not just one and that I have a whole remote control console in my hands. Of course, consciousness inserted its comments even here, drawing my attention, As usual, to empty things like, “Look how magically you are switching buttons!” But when I felt this boundless freedom inside myself for the first time, the freedom of contact

with the Spiritual World, then I realised that I’m no longer interested in watching this TV of the system, where there are a lot of empty things, where everything is stereotypical, where bots are talking. And who would wish to listen to dead and empty stuff when real Life resounds in you, when you feel its fullness, When you feel this boundless joy, when happiness is in you?! When you are not a passive and depressed zombie shackled to the body of three-dimensionality, but when you are in boundless freedom, when you yourself become merged with real Life, with a

tremendous process of creation in Love. So, perception by Personality is a completely different perception. And thanks to it, you perceive by the deepest feelings this real Life, this all-encompassing Knowledge, And it is not limited by either time or space. IM: Yes. T: I have also recalled an important, in my opinion, piece of information which you, Igor Mikhailovich, shared with us once, that a spiritually developed Personality perceives information about the three-dimensional world not only from primary consciousness, but it is also able to perceive information from the field structures of the unified field of consciousness, sort of

bypassing primary consciousness. Meaning, those structures from the human energy structure which are directly connected with structures of the brain, Such as the amygdaloid nucleus and others. They are described in detail in the book AllatRa under the name “lateral and Back Essences of a person.” IM: Yes, that’s right. T: So, if Personality is free from the power of consciousness, it simply knows the truth holistically, no matter how this “accountant” — primary consciousness — would trick or deceive it. Zh: Yes, and another interesting thing is that Personality doesn’t have such a function as processing of information about

the three-dimensional world, which consciousness and the field structures comprised in it have. After all, Personality has much greater capabilities than this entire primitive set of consciousness put together. It has a holistic perception. It makes a choice. That is, speaking the language of associations of the three-dimensional world, it decides whether to invest the power of its attention in one thing or another, or not. While with three-dimensionality, Personality simply has sort of, as Igor Mikhailovich once clearly explained to us by means of associations, “a two-channel connection in an “online” mode”: On the one hand — with primary

consciousness, and on the other hand — with the field structures of the unified field of consciousness. IM: Absolutely right. T: And it is also interesting that even if some abnormalities have happened to neurons of the brain, for example, due to development of a disease or an injury; meaning, if for some reason this connection between the brain and primary consciousness is partially disrupted… For example, a person has partially lost memory or lost an ability to read or something else, this in no way prevents him as Personality From developing spiritually and from continuing his existence even while

being in such a body. Zh: Yes, spiritual development of Personality in practice — these are actually processes in the mode “here and now”; these are unique processes of contact with the Spiritual World; it is creation in spiritual Love. And they are associated neither with three-dimensionality nor with matter as such. Because it’s a different experience there, it’s a different Life. As for these abilities of the “two-channel connection”, Personality has them initially. Only when it is enslaved by consciousness, they are poorly developed, therefore primary consciousness can constantly deceive Personality with its pictures, its contrivances, fears and doubts.

Even those people who practice magic, up to the sixth dimension, don’t understand all the mechanisms and subtleties of the work of the system which controls them. It is just that at these moments, pridefulness covers the entire real situation for them. It seems to them that they are “so strong, so powerful.” But in reality, they don’t see the main action. They simply don’t see that the more they develop these magic abilities in themselves, the more their blindness to global changes in themselves increases, and the more the system trips them up and, during their lifetime, turns them

into subpersonality shackled by the power of their own attention to feeding the system. IM: Absolutely right. T: Igor Mikhailovich, by the way, there is a question about spiritual vision. As a matter of fact, a person in the state of spiritual insight, of seeing some future events in three-dimensionality, doesn’t see an action as such, for example, like those very mages see it, those who are limited to six-dimensionality. IM: That’s right. A person doesn’t see an action; he sees the result. T: Hence, those who see the future are divided into two categories. IM: Yes, it’s a very

rare phenomenon — those who have spiritual eyes; they see the whole picture. For them as Personalities, It is hard to orient themselves where yesterday is and where tomorrow is, because for them it is always today. While those who broadcast from Ahriman, meaning, from the devil, they see events; for them, this happens as a deja vu. T: Right, in other words, they see events, but don’t understand either the essence of the process or the cause or the consequence. They merely see one puzzle piece of an event and only what the system shows to them, But they

don’t see the whole picture. As a result, it turns out that those who see the whole picture are right, and not the ones who dream by moments without knowing what all this will lead to. The whole consciousness is built on repeating patterns, on magic from consciousness. IM: Basically, this is so. The first thing people encounter when acquiring initial spiritual experience, well, you went through this and understand it from your spiritual experience — it is precisely these handouts from the system; They distract. Zh: Well, yes, all of a sudden, some magic abilities start opening in you

on a small scale; some supernatural situations occur on their own, and in general, some magic devilry begins to happen. T: Yes. You are sitting, and you know that a particular person will enter now and will say certain things. And that happens. Or suddenly, for no reason, you take a phone in your hands, and a name of a person whom you haven’t seen for a long time Comes to your mind. You are sure that he is the one who will call right now. And at this moment, there is a call. The main action takes place later,

when consciousness emphasizes, it has already opened a trap and is trying to force you into a snare, parading these emotions of admiration. And actors in your head already begin to arouse your pridefulness, yelling: “Bravo! Look how you have advanced spiritually! Now, let’s strengthen these abilities. Choose any object or action in three-dimensionality and invest all your attention there, in this three-dimensional image.” But if you are sober of illusions of the system, if your Personality is free, you understand what is happening right now. Have you spiritually advanced? No. IM: Absolutely right. You’ve simply become interesting to the

system, and it endows you with some of its qualities for you to get distracted and involved exactly in something that you shouldn’t do, In something that doesn’t generate life, but destroys it. This is nothing but a lethal virus. Zh: Yes, and we sincerely thank you for informing us in advance about these handouts from the system, so we already knew what to expect. Because if it were not for this knowledge, and if we didn’t work on ourselves… T: Yes, indeed, many thanks! Since childhood, the system in fact, through some impressions obtained from movies, fairy tales, and

basically from people who surround you in the world, Where magic is openly hyped up, the system already prepares you that if you have any super abilities, you will be different from other people and will influence them. So, again, for the system, everything boils down to the fact that you will rule and command. However, to put it more precisely, it is the system that will rule and command others through you like through a zombie. It actually throws you some magic handout like a bone to a dog, And if a person is not armed with the knowledge

and understanding of what is really happening, he begins to search for this magic for the rest of his life. Moreover, his pridefulness involves other people in this process as well. The system teases a person: "Go and tell it to others, boast of your achievements… in three-dimensionality." At that, in your thoughts, it already shows images of those people who will admire this, even how they will do that. Those who will definitely have envy for you And a desire to learn it themselves. After all, the system won't lead a person to those who will reprove him for

this action. No! Everything is planned for years in advance, and it even takes into account how you will boast to your future children whom you don't even know about right now, basically infecting young generations with this virus. In other words, these handouts from the system are very well planned: the investments are small, but the profit is enormous. But when you know this, It's very easy not to succumb to such tricks of the system. Even if something extraordinary has happened, just do not invest the power of your attention in it; understand that it’s just a "hello

from the system." Zh: Yes, that’s an important point. Just get away from it, do not wish. Invest attention in multiplying spiritual Love in yourself, in personal growth. That's the point. And this has nothing to do with either three-dimensionality or its images because this is something else, it's different. IM: Absolutely right. In other words, the system tries to distract a person who has stepped on the spiritual path with nothing other than magic. It begins to give him various abilities, like, extrasensory ones or something else. This doesn't happen for all people, of course, but it does for

the majority. Yet, many actually crave for these abilities. Let's take that very book AllatRa. Consciousness of many people became interested in it not as an opportunity for gaining Knowledge, but as an opportunity of acquiring magic abilities. What for? Again, to strengthen their power in this world, first of all, over their loved ones. People want this. And when they didn’t receive it, consciousness was not satisfied because the first thing we say is to stay away from magic. And when a person strives for magic, then, naturally, this is not what we engage in. AllatRa is not a

religion, not even a set of laws or anything else. AllatRa is just a source of Knowledge of where this door is located and how to get to it, no more and no less. And then the choice is up to a human. If you want to, you get up, go, open it, get inside and learn. But all the time, you learn and do something. If you don't do — nothing will happen. T: Yes, Igor Mikhailovich, you quite rightly noted that everything begins with working on oneself, with studying one’s own consciousness. And when you start observing yourself

in practice, you begin to understand that you didn't know yourself and didn’t even suspect how fused you were with consciousness, how much everything in the system works for a result. This whole game of talking in one’s head is built on control, On hidden motives in the pursuit of a prize. While for the system, the prize is the power of attention. And you just honestly keep track of the voices and arguments in your thoughts and understand that someone in your head imposes something on you, tells you something, moreover, through the prism of stereotypes. Now I'll tell

you about myself. In the beginning, when I started, just honestly for myself, to keep track of all this, this plurality of thoughts which I previously told about, in the beginning, it was even somehow a little frightening. But again, this fear came from consciousness. Moreover, this fear, this emotion was accompanied by a thought: "Maybe, you have schizophrenia starting? You already hear voices in your head." Well, and then it became worse: the more diligently I tracked everything that came to my mind and wrote it down, the more consciousness was frightening me with thoughts, eliminating itself, of course,

as a provoker of these thoughts, meaning, it broadcasted in the first person: "How can I live this way? I will lose contact with this world. I will develop schizophrenia. Other people will laugh at me." So I just thought: "Aha, since it is scaring me this way, it means I'm definitely on the right track, and I should figure all this out." And what defeats any fear? As you told us, Igor Mikhailovich — Knowledge! I considered this a good opportunity to replenish my baggage of practical experience. I looked up medical literature and, Taking into account all this

unique Knowledge about Personality, about primary and secondary consciousnesses, the Knowledge which you, Igor Mikhailovich, conveyed to us back then, and I discovered for myself a very curious point. That this tracking of a situation with the work of one's consciousness — it is not some sort of polymorphic mental disorder associated with disintegration of thinking processes and emotional reactions, what they actually call schizophrenia. And it’s not even a multiple personality disorder associated with a split or with multiple selves. To this day, scientists still cannot find the cause of this phenomenon. But thanks to the Knowledge that you

conveyed to us, everything becomes clear and obvious. Everything that is described in medical literature is actually the problems of the body, the problems of primary consciousness. Even though they use the term "personality", but again in the understanding of "I" from consciousness. And these problems are connected, first of all, with the fact that a person as a slave of the system is simply fused with consciousness; he is scared and believes absolutely everything that it suggests. And the first step Which leads to the development of such pathological conditions as schizophrenia and similar mental disorders is excessive egocentrism,

megalomania, a thirst for power and, surely, a desire for something supernatural. Meaning, real schizophrenia from consciousness is consciousness’ desire for magic. Zh: Yes, it is interesting that according to research, schizophrenia is a relatively rare disease, and it manifests itself for the first time between 15 and 25 years of age, meaning, it’s a period when secondary consciousness with all its desires for secret magic Starts working more actively. T: Absolutely right. Moreover, the symptoms of schizophrenia resemble a manifestation of a teenage crisis. By the way, there are studies where it says that not only anomalies in brain

biochemistry or abnormalities in the brain anatomy are associated with an increased risk of developing schizophrenia, but also anomalies in the temporal lobes, hippocampus and amygdala. Zh: Yes, and there is something to think about here, especially if we compare this to the information from the book AllatRa About the phenomenon of amygdalae, which are responsible for the ability to read information, and about how all this is related to a person’s physical body, to his energy structure and the work of the lateral Essences. T: Absolutely right, those who have read the AllatRa book will understand a lot now…

Yet, I was surprised by one more point: why do I have a fear of such thoughts? After all, before getting acquainted with medical literature, I practically knew nothing about this disease. Consciousness has already turned this word Into some illusory action imagined by it. Then, the real cause of this fear from consciousness has been revealed: "Other people will laugh at me." And these thoughts from consciousness: "What will others think about me? What will relatives, friends, family, and acquaintances consider me to be? How will I appear to them in general?" These thoughts constantly arise in one’s head

not only on this matter, but also on other matters. That is, consciousness forces people to live more so that other people think about them, so that they consider them someone. In other words, illusorily, simply to create some contrived image in the eyes of people. Zh: Yes, and what happens at this time to those whom this illusory image is addressed to? After all, another person’s consciousness will not even think in that direction as your consciousness assumes, that you will be admired. Pridefulness begets pridefulness! And this will only beget envy and hatred of the other consciousness. It

will pressure with thoughts like: “That person did it intentionally and said that precisely to you in order to humiliate you and to show your worthlessness compared to him. Let me just answer him with what will surely hurt and offend him. And it will show him, will create my image, that I’m not as bad compared to him as he thinks.” Well, and this game of dummy will continue infinitely in the square field of the system, until the lives of both people end. When in practice you track it in yourself and understand all this foolishness of yours,

Then you simply ask yourself a question: “Is it worth feeding the system? Or should I actually give up my pridefulness and live inside myself by Love, by the life of Personality as a Spirit?” Because then it doesn’t matter to you at all what consciousness is trying to whisper to you there — in three-dimensionality. T: Yes, this is interesting… When you study yourself honestly, being beyond emotions, beyond patterns and desires from consciousness, you realise that pridefulness and fear from consciousness Are simply the first guard on your path to the Truth. IM: This is the first point

which causes fear in consciousness in the first place and begins to distract people. This is the first guard. But the worst thing people get hooked on is surely these abilities, magic. It distracts very much. And later on, when a person has developed a little bit, it becomes even more interesting. Here, the system attempts to distract him with something and preoccupy him at every step. But all this is happening as long as a person is walking towards the door. Once he has opened the door, all these marvels and distractions disappear. The system is, in fact, very

weak because it has power only over a person's body and consciousness. But it can never possess that which is called Personality and all the more the soul. And it definitely cannot influence the Spiritual World in any way. This is true. Zh: Back in the day, I received very helpful understandings thanks to your words, Igor Mikhailovich, That one should hold 70 percent of attention on the Spiritual World and 30 percent on living in the material world, taking care of the body, performing some functions, tasks, and working in three-dimensionality. But at that stage, it was indeed a

very important tip because there were different states, I became involved emotionally, and then my attention already shifted to some material things. T: Yes, usual, habitual things for consciousness. This is very important — to consciously understand where you invest the power of your attention here and now. IM: Regarding redistribution of the power of attention. The power of attention is those same funds, those same resources, that same energy, whatever one might call it. But it is really significant. If a person invests this power of attention which he has, it is like vital energy, let’s call it this

way, or his certain resource, if he puts it mostly into that which is definitely temporary and will die, then what will happen to him? Zh: He will die together with it. IM: Certainly. Whatever anyone says, it will be this way. But when a person puts the power of attention into the Alive, into that which will exist forever, What will happen? Zh: He himself becomes Alive. IM: That’s right. So, where you strive and where you are going is where you will eventually come. Right? Zh: Yes, the only question is what you yourself will choose. IM: It

is very important here that people choose… I mean those who are craving. Again, hardly everyone needs it. In reality, I said it more than once, the Personality of any person seeks the Spiritual World. This is its essence. The meaning of a person’s existence here is, first of all, to gain true spiritual freedom. That is, to become a Spiritual Being, to gain that which every person should gain. That's why he is here. However, thanks to the existence of consciousness, there are substitutions and so on, which keep human Personality enslaved, and a person simply doesn’t know what

he is capable of and why he is here. Let’s say, those very actors from the stage tell him: “You as a human being are obligated to achieve This and that in the material world. It’s important. It’s important to form an opinion about yourself. It’s important to comprehend something,” and so on. Thus, they draw almost 100 percent of Personality’s attention, that is, they draw all the “funding” onto themselves. So a person, instead of building an Eternal Home, builds some temporary structures out of what gets soaked in any rain — “sand castles” as it was said in

the past, which any surf would knock down and wipe it all out. But again, it’s a person’s choice. A person has the right to choose, to be deluded, because that’s the way it should be, it is fair. Who prevents him from listening to his inner self? No one. Zh: He himself succumbs to consciousness' tricks. IM: Yes. People, even having read the AllatRa book, again, having read it, but not cognized, start saying: “Consciousness hinders me, that hinders me, everything hinders me.” But at that moment, their consciousness is speaking. I mean, they are controlled and manipulated by

the system. It is enough to simply realise What is at least written in that very AllatRa book and nothing hinders a person anymore; he will come to the Spiritual World through any religion, won’t he? He will. Is it complicated? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. That’s the point. T: Yes, if we trace in thoughts, in people’s conversations, in historical literature, what in general consciousness tells people regarding spiritual knowledge, when a person comes across it. It says that, supposedly: “It’s not interesting. You should correct others, but not yourself. You should fight with something and dominate, and your

opinion is the only right one.” But if a person still embarks on the spiritual path, it doesn't matter whether he’s alone or in some religious organization, if he follows it, despite the resistance of consciousness, then it already starts telling him: “You should change others because you already know everything.” To the point that it says: “Being in service, You should kill your own kind in the name of God, enslave, conquer someone, expand your territories.” But when a person works on himself in practice, he already understands that his enemy is not the people around him. The enemy

is inside himself, and the enemy is his consciousness as part of the system. IM: The system is the system: eternal fighting and opposition. But all this is colourful, all this is illusory, all this attracts attention. It’s like a flash of light in the darkness: It flashes and draws the attention of a person, whether he wants it or not. But again, the darkness is not that darkness, and the light is not that light. Spiritual development of Personality in practice is creation in spiritual Love T: Igor Mikhailovich, when you first told us about primary and secondary consciousness,

this understanding greatly helped in practice during the day, in work on ourselves, in a more in-depth understanding of how the mechanism of that very autogenic training and meditation works, And in general, how much spiritual practice differs from them. Although at the beginning of the conversation, we already mentioned these tools, could you, please, elaborate on the understanding of the work with these tools in the light of knowledge about primary and secondary consciousness? IM: Yes, of course. This is also an interesting point, if we analyze the tools which people use to get to know the Spiritual World.

Let's begin with simple things. Autogenic training. What is autogenic training, and based on what does it work? After all, autogenic training as such is exactly an awareness of oneself, shifting of one’s self from secondary consciousness to primary consciousness and working with primary consciousness at the level of primary consciousness. That is why it’s an important tool, and it has existed in all spiritual practices. Now we call this tool in a kind of transformed, altered form: autogenic training, thanks to Schultz, as we already mentioned. But it works at the level of primary consciousness, therefore various changes in

the body happen, and so on. Meditation is also a work via primary consciousness, but it’s already an observation of secondary consciousness. While autogenic training is simpler: we sort of turn off secondary consciousness, do not pay attention to it, and work by means of primary consciousness with our body, so it’s an understandable process, a simple and easy one. Meditation is a more complicated practice. We work by means of primary consciousness with secondary consciousness, We study the system. In other words, being practically in the system, going deeper, going out of it only a little, we begin to

study it, but with no harm to ourselves. We can already learn more complex processes and can reach the level of up to the sixth dimension. This is what we talked about: magic and everything else. All the highest magic remains at the level of the sixth dimension. The system itself simply cannot go beyond the sixth dimension. Meditation as such, whatever it is, merely remains a meditation. It’s a work at the level of primary consciousness, So as to make it clear. Let’s say, you cannot achieve salvation through it, but you can achieve peace. The state of peace

is… after death, when a person becomes a subpersonality, he is sort of asleep, a sleeping subpersonality, there are no torments. But anyway, it’s a kind of death because there is still self-identification. Well, it’s like anabiosis of some kind. But what’s the point of it, if you can Live and Love? Why would you not exist? Zh: Well, yes, and to use these meditative techniques to achieve peace is just a waste of powers; it is diligence due to ignorance. Basically, it is simply when consciousness is looped on itself. But when consciousness is looped on itself, what will

happen? After all, like begets like. T: Yes. Awareness and understanding also came from what Igor Mikhailovich already said at the beginning of our conversation, that spiritual practice — “it is when Personality goes beyond those limits Within which consciousness can function." And this says a lot, as a help for the one who practises. IM: Of course. Spiritual practice is performed already at the level of Personality. It is exactly what develops Personality. It’s already an observation of primary consciousness, secondary consciousness, all their combinations and manifestations; it is awareness of oneself as a part of the Spiritual World.

It is perception of the Spiritual World, and as the ultimate goal — It is merging with the Spiritual World or becoming part of It. This is already the maturation of Personality. Everything is simple. Zh: Yes. At one time, for me it was an important understanding in practice, which you once voiced, that Personality doesn’t contemplate the Spiritual World, it lives by it. IM: Yes. Personality doesn’t contemplate that World, it lives by it. And the difference is huge. It perceives with the entire spectrum, which neither consciousness nor a human body has. It's hard to explain this to

people, it's better to experience it. They say, "What does a person experience when happiness comes?" — “What do you mean? Happiness." — "And what is happiness?" — "You know, better experience it yourself." Zh: Yes, happiness cannot be temporary. And for yourself, in practice, you already understand that to live in happiness or to only temporarily experience it for short moments — the difference here is huge. T: That's right. At the initial stages of mastering spiritual practice, it also happens that you feel good, but at the same time it's like you are not there, you as if

disappeared, it’s like emptiness. But at the same time, you feel so good; you feel deep inside that you are in contact with something new, joyful, and dear. IM: Question: is it you who are not there, or is it consciousness that has fallen off? You see? Naturally, your actors become silent, the theatre disappears, and life begins. However, it’s not you who are not there, but your actors or one of your earthly selves. You can call it differently, but these are just words. T: Right, and this is simply an unforgettable feeling of freedom, freedom from the power

of consciousness… Igor Mikhailovich, there is another question that people ask in letters: about prayer. What is prayer as a spiritual tool? And is it possible to achieve fusion of Personality with the Soul by means of prayer? IM: What is prayer? Prayer actually goes through many of these stages. Most often, prayer is performed to the dictation of secondary consciousness. Can there be any use? No. But a deeper, more serious expression of prayerful states is performed at the level of primary consciousness. This is what is called meditation. Drawing such a parallel gives an understanding. Any religion can

lead to God; we already discussed this more than once. There are no bad religions, there are people who are deluded. Religion cannot be bad, and the world cannot be bad. It is people who may be bad because they listen to consciousness that tells them… Again, consciousness doesn’t offer bad things all the time. It sometimes offers good things as well. Choose good, and there will be good. It’s just that often, in order to fulfill a desire, which was imposed on us by secondary consciousness, exactly for this fulfilment we often act badly in fact. But this is

our choice, isn’t it? Again, what we choose is what we get. So, is it possible to achieve fusion of Personality with the Soul by means of prayer? Of course, it is possible. There is the most complicated and the simplest prayer — Jesus’ prayer. If we think deeply about how these stages go and look at who and how described these states, who really performed it and who reached these states… In reality, there were only a few of such people, and thousands and thousands of those who said that they came to know something. Just as in spiritual

practices, the principle is the same. There is a repetition of Jesus' prayer, aspiration and such Love for Him arising that… Again, what do we come to? We come to Love. Real, true, sincere Love — Love for God. Naturally, if you begin to endeavour, as they used to say, "to love God with all your heart"… And Jesus' prayer really leads to this, precisely to the revival of inner perception through feelings of the World of God — this is Love and Gratitude towards Him. There is nothing except Love and Gratitude. Everything else is an illusion in relation

to the Spiritual World. So, when this feeling arises, this is exactly the fusion. Is it difficult? No, it's not difficult. Just like spiritual practices, are they difficult? No, they are not difficult. And what is difficult? Living by consciousness is difficult. It is consciousness that says that it’s impossible. Why? Because for any consciousness, be it primary or secondary one, the entry into the Spiritual World is closed. That is why consciousness opposes. It is always against Personality becoming whom we call an Angel because for consciousness — it is death. There are at least two selves in a

human, although consciousness can create a multitude of these selves. This is known from the examples of development of various diseases or special manipulations with a person, when on the basis of primary consciousness it is possible to create as many of these selves as you wish, even a dozen. T: And what about the concept of love… Very often, people confuse earthly love with true Love. IM: Again, the concept of love. Love as an earthly concept is most often dictated by primary consciousness as a need for propagation, meaning, for copying one's own kind. The system is also

greatly interested in that. Or it is dictated by secondary consciousness as a desire to dominate, possess and so on. Then through the prism of consciousness love looks more colourful, but it is fleeting. While true Love is only Love for God and Love for everyone in the Spiritual World. Zh: Yes. Love for God and for everyone who is in the Spiritual World. T: We already talked about this, that the system promotes through people’s consciousness that a person allegedly doesn’t have a freedom of choice, that he is supposedly a slave to God. Zh: Yes, but what does

the system hush up? The fact that freedom is only in the spiritual, and there is another perception by Personality, a state which arises from contact with the Divine, thanks to the deepest perception through feelings, thanks to the immense Love for God. And there is no fear in this Love. Fear is imposed by the system itself; Through consciousness, it forces people not to love God, but to fear. Precisely to be afraid of Him, as high and almighty, but in the understanding of the system, in the understanding of power, and not as in reality — in the

greatness and omnipotence of His infinite Love. Because the system doesn’t know the reality of the Spiritual World, the reality of true Life. T: Yes, because the system's domain is what is perishable and mortal. And from here comes a substitution Of spiritual fundamentals and understandings by consciousness. After all, consciousness turns even the service to God into the lot of slaves. And it is interesting that in ancient times, a region ruled by a prince was called "lot". But in fact, it turns out that this three-dimensional world is the lot of slaves of the prince of this world.

IM: You have noticed it absolutely right. And here again, there is a substitution coming from consciousness, and a very cruel one, That "all those who serve God are His slaves." T: Because consciousness always stands against God. People often do not understand when the bots of consciousness speak in them, and where there is that inner sincere impulse to God, the impulse which comes from within. After all, if you have fear of God, if you, as a slave, are afraid of God, then you do not love Him, and He doesn’t see you. IM: Yes. It’s a substitution

coming from consciousness, that all those who serve God are His slaves. It’s a wrong understanding of God. And such a poisonous content was let into the consciousness of people that a human must fear God. This kills the very desire of Personality to seek God. Why? When an immature Personality is dictated through consciousness that it must fear God… T: …yes, a person’s attention is already focused on fear instead of Love, meaning, the power of attention is drained to the system. And this causes even greater fear instead of Love. IM: Absolutely right. While you can come to

God only through Love, there is no other way. Only through the Truth, through knowledge. Knowledge can only come through Love. T: Yes, and you should multiply your Love every day. This is work. Whereas people want a person to instantly become a spiritually developed Personality. IM: It is only in extremely exceptional cases that such gifts are given to certain Personalities. But in general, a person must walk this path himself. He must choose service, based on the agreement when people wanted to fight with the devil while being in the flesh, earning God’s Love. Again, it is not

that God will love them, but the acquisition of God’s Love, to become this Love. The most repulsive thing that was introduced by Ahriman into religion is the fear of God. When you fear someone, you cannot Love him, Love sincerely, for real. You will be afraid of him. And if you fear God, you will never come to Him. God should be Loved. God is Love. When you are filled with Love, you are with God. Even the understanding of Love has been substituted… Therefore, a human cannot be a slave of God. A human becomes a slave to

the devil when he lives by the material world and its values. It is so. In this case, his fate is definitely predetermined. That is, the fate of a slave is predetermined. But if we consider an ordinary, simplified understanding, A human can become a part of the Spiritual World, meaning, he returns to his family, well, in the human understanding. But he cannot be a slave in his family. What kind of a family is that if I’m a slave in it? Even based on the mindsets of consciousness. And how can I love my family if I fear

it? T: That’s right… Also, regarding God's Love. Igor Mikhailovich, you mentioned more than once in the videos that true Love in the spiritual history of humankind was often associated with the flaming heat, with fiery Love. IM: Why in many religions and not only in religions, did people who really achieved spiritual awakening, let’s call it so, almost in all religions mention fire? And this fire has always been described in unusual colours. They called it "burning fire, but not singeing", called it "the purest fire," and so on. This concept of fire is what generates Life, and they

mentioned it as primary forces or primary energy. Associatively, at the level of consciousness… Associatively, because a person who experienced all this at the level of feelings, and when trying to explain it to others, He chooses an association of some power and what it resembles. It cannot be water because water flows. But what a person experiences, and more understandable, especially at the first stages — he experiences this even at the physical level. You even know it yourselves, when this manifestation takes place, speaking the language understandable to our viewers, this filling with the Spirit, what does the

body experience? It experiences heat, it's like a fire burning inside. But it doesn’t singe. It is joyful and blissful. And it is pure. This association of the primary fire that is perceived by consciousness… It was once called the power of Allat. Zh: Yes, and this unforgettable experience of the first contact with the Spiritual World, when for the first time you experience this enormous unearthly happiness; you feel this blissful heat of Love, which you haven’t known before, of the real, inexhaustible Love. And this joy overwhelms you so much that even your body feels it. Because this

heat is so true, So sincere; it is expanding, it is so voluminous. The purity itself, it is purer than pure. Subsequently, when you live by the Spiritual World, this heat disappears in such a strong manifestation, but it goes to the depths and becomes your integral part. And there, in the depths, it is constantly present, it is constantly there; it is expanding you from within. And it doesn’t matter whether it is day or night, You are as if wrapped up in it. And it reappears in its entirety only when there is a significant intensification or manifestation

of the spiritual side here, meaning, when there is a presence from the Spiritual World here. T: Yes. It was also noticed from the practical experience that when you live by the Spiritual World, the feeling of loneliness simply disappears. Previously, there was a constant sense of loneliness coming from consciousness, a feeling of separation in the physical world. It would seem, even when you were among the closest people, but it was always there. Somehow, you were distracted by some pictures from consciousness, somehow this state was smoothed out. But a particularly vivid understanding of this loneliness was at

the very first stages of practical work on yourself. It’s a very strange feeling: you are sort of among people, but as if in a desert. However, later on in practice, an understanding came that the feeling of loneliness is a state of consciousness; It is its function of separation, fragmentation, and it is built on the emotion of primary consciousness. But you already choose something different because you already know something different. You know the joy and fullness of Life, life by the Spirit, life by the Spiritual World, where you are one with the entire Spiritual World and

with the spiritual manifestation here. Zh: Yes, I absolutely agree with you. And this joy is so overwhelming, this state is so pleasant, when you are truly Alive, and you Live by it. And it is so strong and wonderful! Even consciousness perceives this power of Allat. And it is also interesting that an understanding comes in practice, why the sign of Allat was drawn as a crescent specifically with its horns pointing upwards. It is actually like a bowl. And when you experience this unforgettable first experience of contact with the Spiritual World, you feel how the bowl-shaped filling

occurs slightly below the solar plexus. You are filled like a bowl, And in this bowl, there is the blissful fire, there is no other way to call it. Consciousness understands that "this is a body, not a bowl." But when you close your eyes, you feel something completely different. This feeling… You feel this invisible bowl. You understand that it emanates this heat of inexhaustible Love, true Love. And this Love is so sincere… You understand that it is true. In this Love… there is God. This feeling… this bowl, this crescent, this Allat. It is as if inside

of you there is a voluminous sign that radiates this boundless Love. Even consciousness notes this. And you understand why Allat is a bowl that radiates this infinite Love. And from here, obviously, this sign originates — the sign of Allat, exactly from the practical spiritual experience of people. And this is clearly not just a drawing. Now you understand this in practice. You know that it’s a real spiritual experience. It’s the experience of those who became liberated throughout centuries. And obviously, they marked it as the first experience of spiritual contact with the Boundless World. This experience cannot

be confused with anything, and you will never forget it. It is always with you. T: Yes, after all, the most valuable and important signs of antiquity are found everywhere. The sign of Allat, a crescent with its horns pointing upwards, is actually found on almost all the continents, on artefacts, on sacred objects of ancient peoples. And in many religions fire is mentioned as the beginning of the world, implying the divine powers of Allat. So, everything begins from this, from this very feeling of the inner heat of a person’s Love for God. IM: Absolutely right. And this

fire burning inside, this manifestation, Filling with the Spirit — later on, it was called in many different ways. But the name Allat is actually more correct. And this sign of Allat — a crescent with its horns pointing upwards, it was everywhere. T: Yes, there are many examples of that: from rock paintings, which are tens of thousands years old, and about the origin of which nothing is known except the time of their creation, up to artefacts of various beliefs, cultures, civilizations, and world religions, Notably recent ones, meaning, of the last five millennia. It is clear that

consciousness has certainly wiped many things out, has perverted a lot of things, has altered them, let’s say, to "its own discretion", or rather to the discretion of the system, and has turned them into rituals. But the very fact… The video demonstrates a wide variety of artefacts with the signs of Allat and AllatRa, which are the cultural heritage of different eras, beliefs, religions and civilizations. The signs of Allat and AllatRa Are found everywhere: in Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia and Oceania, North and South America. T: Judging by the accumulated artefacts, the spiritual experience and practice is what

a human of the Paleolithic era strove for, and what a human of the modern era strives for. And it doesn't matter where a person’s body is: in a cave marked with Signs recording the spiritual experience of past generations, or in a temple filled with books of the religious experience of people of the past. It’s important where a person practically dwelled as Personality: in symbols of dead three-dimensionality, listening to interpretations of consciousness, or in the practice of Living by the Spirit? To put it simply, what did he live by: consciousness or Spirit? And it is interesting

that in the past it was easier for a person with regard to spiritual cognition Than when the process of significant complication of the primordial Knowledge through the prism of consciousness began. I will give a simple example. About seven thousand years ago, in the east of Europe, the well-known Cucuteni-Trypillian civilization flourished, which built the largest cities of that time. And it was a highly developed civilization, which peacefully existed for millennia. Thus, according to the found artefacts of this culture, the signs of Allat and AllatRa were among the main ones. They were placed in ornaments, in patterns

of wall paintings, On festive and ritual pottery, on objects, in adornments. IM: The sign of Allat was like a reminder of gaining God's Love, to become this… a reminder of the true fire, as a descending fire that descends as the Spirit and fills you up, and what you must Live by. T: Yes, and while studying this culture, you understand that such a reminder was everywhere in society. In those very houses, it was painted in an honourable place, put on a stove that radiated heat, So that a human would warm himself not only bodily, but also

spiritually. Meaning, so that he would constantly support within himself this divine fire, the fire of Love for God. The signs of AllatRa and Allat were put on the tops and roofs of houses. So, they were everywhere. They served as a reminder of the main goal of a person's life: to turn from dead into Alive. Judging by the symbols on artefacts and the peculiarities of existence of this civilization, It is clear that spiritual Knowledge was precisely practiced there. IM: Well, that's natural because the spiritual prevailed over the material, not as it is now. T: Yes. The

sign of Allat, as mentioned in the book AllatRa, in subsequent times also signified the primary energy, the divine powers. It was a symbol for practitioners, for those who were enriching themselves with spiritual experience. Zh: Yes, and it was such a spiritual reminder of eternal Life here and now. T: Yes. The sign of Allat served as a daily reminder, But it wasn’t like an icon for the majority nowadays. There is indeed a significant difference here because today icons for most people are a reminder of a request, of assistance in three-dimensional life, begging God for something either

for themselves or for their loved ones, appealing as to a higher authority. Zh: Yes, unfortunately… And all this is built on emotions from consciousness: on hope, on fear. While in the past, that very sign of Allat was a sign for people who lived in different parts of the world, As a reminder of primordial Knowledge, of multiplying their inner spiritual heat of Love for God, that is, a reminder of the spiritual development of Personality. And it was mostly the signs which conveyed the spiritual meaning and essence of knowledge that was understood in every corner of the

world. But not as it is now: symbols of three-dimensionality, images with facial features that coincide with external phenotypic features of local peoples. Meaning, there was no division of the primordial Knowledge, There was no division of it being the property of one or another nation. T: Right. So, when did the Trypillian culture fall into decay? When it was replaced by militant cultures, meaning, those generations who already lost the Knowledge and who were controlled by consciousness of the Animal mind. Those who, by means of consciousness, as slaves of the system, turned the Knowledge into magic, into religion,

into scientific skepticism; those who established social hierarchies and developed control systems built on hope and fear. IM: Absolutely right. T: And still, despite such an interference by consciousness, even at that time people remembered about the Source that gives Life. This can be observed not only from those artefacts and remnants of ancient civilizations which existed before the Trypillian culture. This can also be observed from the echoes of primordial Knowledge which was the basis of teachings of various religions that have existed in the last five thousand years and have already been significantly altered by consciousness. For example,

in the Hindu philosophy as well as in Buddhism, to this day there is such a concept as maya which has several meanings. On the one hand, it is regarded as illusiveness of the perceived world. While in another meaning, it was associated with the world power that creates the changing nature, but it itself possesses God’s inalterability. In essence, it’s a characteristic of the powers of Allat, those primary energies of which everything is woven in this world. And it is considered that when this power is used for divine purposes, it brings a miraculous transformation, and it was

associated with a divine woman, With a goddess whose attribute was the sign of Allat. But when this power is used by demons, maya already turns into deceit, into substitution, into a bewitching transformation. As we remember from the book AllatRa, since ancient times, crescent signs turned in certain directions, depending on their meaning, have also been known as the indications of the field components of the human structure: the lateral and the back Essences. But the most interesting Thing is the mention and the meaning of the goddess’ protecting veil — it is illusiveness of the entire perceived world,

which under a seeming multiformity conceals its real essence — Brahman, that is, the One, the supreme God as the only reality. Zh: Yes. In general, the Mother Goddess with a protecting veil, an attribute of which is a crescent with its horns pointing upwards, meaning, the sign of Allat, is a fairly widespread image in cultures and beliefs of various peoples. T. Absolutely right. And there is already an understanding of what it meant in antiquity, regardless of what part of the world one or another belief was professed. For example, there is a goddess with a protecting veil

or weaving a cloth in the beliefs of the Indians of Alaska — it is goddess Atsentma; in the beliefs of ancient Slavic peoples — it is goddess Mokosh, and in the beliefs of ancient Arabs — it is goddess Al-Lat, and many others. This also exists in contemporary religions. In Christianity, there is such an expression: “to be under the protecting veil of the Mother of God.” Zh: Right, there can be many different beliefs, or paths to the sacred door of the primordial Home, but the opening of the door, that is, spiritual experience of practical contact, life

by the Spiritual World is one for everyone. Because if we look from the perspective of spiritual experience, what did past generations try to convey associatively to future generations? Precisely that in practice, when attention is focused on the Spiritual World by means of the deepest feelings, this very transition into the only reality — The reality of God — is taking place. IM: This is true. T: Yes, and when you have practical experience in spiritual cognition, you understand the universal grain of truth, that grain which is embedded in spiritual teachings of different peoples. But without practice, theory

is dead. It is noted correctly here that it’s a transition into God’s reality, meaning, into that which is native to the spiritual nature of a human as Personality, one’s path to one’s true Home. In Sanskrit, there is such a term as alaya, Which literally means “home”, “dwelling”, “primordial”. And one of the key concepts in Buddhism is alaya-jnana, meaning some common “repository of inexpressible and indescribable knowledge of the One.” For the peoples of the East, for example, that very Turkey, the word aya means “holy”. The Arabs also have mentions about the primordial Home. In the Islamic

Encyclopaedia, in the article about Islam’s main shrine — Kaaba — it is said that, according to a legend, one of the names of the first shrine was al-Bayt al-’Atiq Which denoted “Ancient Home”, “the primordial Home”. It is believed that Adam established it as the first shrine on Earth which was intended for worshipping God. Other peoples have similar mentions as well. Zh: So, all these are echoes of practitioners who somehow tried, by means of associations, to pass on their practical spiritual experience to subsequent generations, regarding that which connected Personality with the true Home — with the

reality of God. T: Yes, but consciousness has always played A nasty trick in this issue. Because when you read theory and then go through practice, you realize that this is not at all what your consciousness implied by it. I know from my own experience, that if I would just read all these definitions separately, as it was in the past, the brain would simply refuse to understand anything. Because human consciousness has complicated everything so much throughout centuries, when that which is presented as the truth Has actually been processed through consciousness and written by a person in

whom consciousness was predominant. And this is felt. But now it’s already a different situation. And all the knowledge from different religions becomes simple and understandable thanks to that universal key of spiritual Knowledge which you, Igor Mikhailovich, have told us about. Once again I’m convinced that everything from the Spiritual World is simple and clear. While everything that comes from consciousness is complicated, confusing, And inflated in imaginary philosophical terms beyond recognition. But thanks to those universal keys that you have given, among the husks of time, in any religion it is possible to find the true grain. IM:

The truth is always simple, and it always speaks for itself. These are interesting points. Generally speaking, a lot of things, especially in sign writing, are said about the spiritual, about Personality’s connection with the Spiritual World. But unfortunately, this knowledge is lost as of today, and some of it is even interpreted as the exact opposite. What can you do? Consciousness is consciousness. T: Igor Mikhailovich, we have now mentioned the Mother of God, who today is the conductor of the divine powers of Allat for many people around the world. And it is no coincidence that since ancient

times she has been portrayed with the sign of Allat, with a veil. Nowadays, a lot of people turn to her in their prayers as to a quick helper in spiritual matters. Yet, quite often, due to inculturation, she is associated with earthly images, with bodily images, with images that are acceptable to one or another nation. While in reality, it's a tremendous God's power… IM: Yes, people often perceive the Mother of God and associate her with a material image. But again, everything holy is Spirit. And the Mother of God is the Greatest Spirit. Why? There are many

legends, but let’s say, what is Love? Love is precisely the Mother of God! On this subject, there are interesting legends about the Allat Sisters, but this relates more to Islam. Well, basically, I believe whoever wants to, will find it themselves. This shouldn’t be mentioned here so as not to cause tension in the consciousness of certain people. For those who perceive by Spirit, it would certainly be interesting. But unfortunately, many who consider themselves true believers live more by consciousness, to the dictation of the one who controls this consciousness. That is why, in the modern world, unfortunately,

we cannot even say many things. This is true. T: The Mother of God is Spirit, and there are people who feel the need within themselves to serve as Mary. IM: Touching on the issues of service, in general… Service may be different. But most often, people strive to serve from consciousness, in the hope of getting some magic abilities on the path of service. This is what often pushes people to say “I want to serve, I am ready.” While the true service is precisely that example, the example of Mary as an embodiment of Purity and Love, And

complete devotion to the Spiritual World, as well as introduction and spreading of those values in the material world, regardless of desires of consciousness which resists all this every second… It’s a difficult issue, and to raise it in a public conversation, especially Mary’s service… Well… what for? T: For those who feel. IM: Those who feel will understand. While for others… To strengthen the demon in them. Zh: But there are people who sincerely want to come to God. It is clear that much has already been given. But still, this is such a time now — the time

of the Crossroads, such events, such a darkness of consciousness is covering the world that it is difficult not to notice that. However, the most important thing which is happening now is that such a big impulse is coming from the Spiritual World and such a big inner Call which is difficult not to hear. And a lot of feelings fill you from inside Because you hear this Call. And this Call is addressed to every Personality as a Spirit. It awakens Life, real Life, everything that is the most valuable and the most important for a human. Yet, many

people still languish in slavery under the narcosis of consciousness. Although much has already been given, a lot has been said, and the Knowledge has been given. But now, everything is on such a brink, and every person’s destiny depends only on their own choice. IM: God loves everyone who loves Him. As for the one who doesn’t love Him, He simply doesn’t know such a person. This is true. If you want to be with God or want Him to love you — just love Him. Everything is simple. T: Indeed, everything is simple. So, it doesn’t matter what

kind of past a person had, who he is, or how he looks outwardly. A person shouldn’t be afraid of anything because Love is… IM: Love is not fear. If you are afraid of anyone, Ahriman or God — nothing will work out for you. Fear comes from consciousness, it lives there. And the body screeches when it is dying, while the Soul sings if it has earned that. Yetg, consciousness is supposed to screech because, for it, these are the last moments of existence when Personality becomes free. This is normal. Zh: Yes, consciousness doesn’t give understanding of God.

When there is belief, but there is no knowledge And there is no understanding, what happens? The very fact: ”I believe, but I don’t know. I believe in the One whom I don’t know, in the hope of receiving something material for myself.” And they actually ask for everything material. But it’s a principle of the system’s work. So, do you love God or material benefits? Yet, one more question arises: do you believe or do you know? Do you believe that after the death of your body you will resurrect in heaven? But if you believe — you hope;

And if you hope, you have doubts; and if you have doubts, there is fear in you, but there is no Love. Whereas, if there is Love in you, there is already Life in you. You have no doubts and no fear because you have Knowledge and experience, and you already have Life. You already live here and now. Knowledge and Love of the Spiritual World are in you. The point is that you don’t hope that after death you will be rewarded, But you begin to Live here. If you start Living, you will Live. If you haven't started

Living, you will not Live. T: Yes, and as it is said in the Bible, “whatever a man might sow, that also he will reap. For the one sowing to his own flesh, from the flesh will reap decay. But the one sowing to the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” Zh: Yes, and in this lies the depth of understanding of what was said — “whatever a man might sow, that also he will reap.” For if you just hope to sow the field, when time comes to harvest, you will come to the field and see

it empty. There will be nothing except the weeds of your hopes. While in order to reap, you should first sow, that is, you should not hope — you should act. Your hopes are empty without real actions. Belief is just hopes and fears. While experience is Life. Alive is for the Alive, while dead is for the dead. You should not dream and hope, but should Live. If you sow Love — you will gain Love. Because indeed, God really loves everyone, but only those who love Him. T: That’s the point. But people often act from consciousness, out

of habit, based on their past. Whereas Love is something different. It is Life here and now, beyond the patterns of the system. IM: Habits are patterns of consciousness. If you live by consciousness — you will act out of habits. If you live by Love — you are already free from habits, you are free from everything. What is a habit? A habit is in consciousness, consciousness is a part of the system. Everything is simple. T: Everything is indeed simple. And also, you shouldn’t cherish your mindsets because it is consciousness, and it can, for instance, think of

the past and of the future. But you just… here and now… Love — and that’s all! IM: The past and the future exist only in consciousness, But it doesn’t have the present. While Personality has neither yesterday nor tomorrow. Personality that lives by the Spiritual World in God’s Love has only now. And this now is infinite. “Now” cannot become “yesterday” or “tomorrow”. It is now, and it’s eternal. While consciousness says, “Yesterday, I should have done it that way, but tomorrow I’ll do it otherwise”, yet it doesn’t have now. T: It is foolish to neglect the present

In favour of the future. IM: The future doesn’t have the present. If you start Living, you will Live. If you haven't started Living, you will not Live. IM: The world is diverse, but the system has very few patterns. Indeed, "the system is attacking," what does it mean? Thoughts and all kinds of distractions come, literally one and the same thing, after all, they are stereotypical, aren’t they? While practical examples — that's what is interesting. T: Yes, absolutely right. When people share their experience, This surely enriches you with certain understandings at the current stage of your spiritual

path. It gives you an opportunity to learn more about the tricks of consciousness, to improve the vigil in yourself. Because here and now, in practice, you learn and cognize your true nature; you learn to feel other people, to separate grains from the chaff, to separate the truth coming from the deepest feelings from the lies of your consciousness. Therefore, any experience is only beneficial As a practical opportunity to understand what your consciousness is, who you are, where the illusions and images created by your consciousness are, and where the truth is, without masks of the system. And

what, in general, is globally happening in the world, if you look at it not through the prism of consciousness, but perceive it holistically from the Spirit. IM: And this understanding of freedom is the very first step. In fact, the first realization that a person is really free in his choice Is the first little step towards the Spiritual World. This is also important. T: Of course. IM: Especially using the opportunity of not being alone in this studio, we can ask the other guys about what they encounter. This is communication with people, what people face. It’s interesting.

T: Yes, let’s remind our viewers, or, to be more precise, our listeners, that our guests, Volodya and Andrey, are still at our table. Although, they have already become more like interested listeners Than participants in the conversation. But it would be desirable if you, Volodya, Andrey, if possible, share the main points of your personal experience. What did you have to face in practice, to understand, to realise, both when working in groups and, especially, when working on yourselves? And in general, what enriches a person spiritually, and what, in your opinion, hinders a person from following the spiritual

path, based on your personal experience? V: Well, basically, nothing hinders. The only thing… I believe that a person, first of all, should acquire knowledge in order to understand what the spiritual path is, what this world is like, and, in general, what we are doing here, what we have manifested here for. Then a person already begins to move. He either moves along the spiritual path or he pretends that he moves along the spiritual path. Here, it depends on what a person has accepted for himself, what goal he has set. If he sees the goal, he is

moving. However, he may also get distracted by the tricks of consciousness. Strictly speaking, various situations can happen: someone may see some pridefulness in himself or fail to control this point, while someone… Well, various situations can happen. Movement along the spiritual path is a goal — directed movement. If a person has really understood and accepted the knowledge, and not only has he understood, but he has really lived through it or he begins to live by it — then he, basically, moves seriously, calmly, confidently, without getting distracted by various traps of consciousness, and so on. That's what

I think. T: Maybe, Andrey will share some situations. A: Well, many of such situations have accumulated as of today, thank God. One of such kinds of obstacles is the loss of the goal. It is when a person, at some point, allows his consciousness to dominate because he, let's say, is not working on himself well enough. At that moment, consciousness substitutes the goal. As a matter of fact, consciousness has many desires, for example, to earn money, to make a career or, let’s say, to have a family. Someone wants to become a great athlete, someone wants to

be a great scientist. IM: Consciousness has the only desire — to eat. As for those desires, it imposes them on Personality. A: It’s a means, a way to eat. One of the ways… IM: …of manipulation. A: Yes, manipulation. But a human actually came here with one goal — to become Immortal. IM: To gain Life. A: Yes, to gain Life. Often such moments happen when this understanding is sort of erased, it disappears. And at some point, a person starts thrashing about. He’s like a ship that lost its navigation. I mean, he has sailed out into the

sea, But he doesn’t know where to sail next: the compass doesn’t work, you know how it happens when a magnet is placed under a compass, and it turns in different directions. The ship seems to be there, and the sails are full, but the ship is thrown back and forth in the sea, and until this understanding of the goal is restored, various things can certainly happen. IM: What is Andrey trying to say? Let me translate so that there is an understanding. As a matter of fact, many people, Having once experienced perception through feelings, for instance, as

after the previous video that you hosted, editor’s note: the video LIFE on ALLATRA TV is meant https://allatra. tv/en/video/zhizn, they have perceived it and felt it. And a desire to come to God arises. They begin to understand and feel that this is true, that there is a greater World than this one, and there is something beyond the verge of our perception. As a rule, this process of striving is short because consciousness overwhelms, And a person loses his goal. For example, people even go to their temples, churches, and so on. They go and forget why they go

there. They go there to socialize; they go to have a good time, but they forget why they come there. They forget that they go there to communicate with God. T: That is, somewhere along the way they get carried away by these suggestions… IM: Consciousness distracts… from the mind. That’s how understanding is lost. A: Right. And one of the tools by which consciousness, let’s say, redirects Personality and the course of its movement, is laziness. When at some point a person stops developing spiritually, slacks somewhere, stops controlling his thoughts, meaning, he allows in himself some desires or

patterns, then consciousness gains strength. A serious confrontation is going on. IM: A tug-of-war. A: Yes. Just as Igor Mikhailovich has said that consciousness eats, here really, a question arises: who will eat, excuse me for the expression? I mean, will consciousness eat and dominate completely over Personality, or will Personality actually be replenished with the powers of Allat and keep consciousness on a tight leash. And laziness is also one of consciousness’ tools, when a person is too lazy to analyze and understand how consciousness works. A simple example that is often repeated nowadays is when people come and

say, "I have such thoughts that I won’t make it in time, that I cannot do it." Yet, there is a simple recommendation: take a notebook and write down what consciousness tells you. And there is a very simple tool, when you hear these thoughts, you write down, "My consciousness says…", and you write exactly what it quotes. For instance, consciousness says, "I cannot get to God"… Well, I believe, everything is clear. IM: But in fact, it doesn’t lie. A: Sure! IM: It cannot get to God. But the point is that it imposes the same thing on Personality

which can get there. A: Yes. And here’s the most important point, Igor Mikhailovich is saying correctly that consciousness, so to say, “lays its own fault at someone else's door.” Meaning, at this moment, it says to Personality, “I am you, and it's you who cannot do that”, meaning, it is sort of me who cannot. But if you know that this is simply quoting thoughts from consciousness… T: Right, it is consciousness speaking and broadcasting, but consciousness will never be able to do that. A: Yes. We can talk about doubts, we can talk about a lack of confidence,

we can say that we have no experience. But all these are products of consciousness. Why? For instance, people say, “I have no experience.” Yet, what prevents them from gaining experience? Laziness. And who engenders laziness in a person? Consciousness. In other words, if a person starts listening to consciousness, it really, let’s say, leads the person astray. And, strictly speaking, nobody is holding a person’s hands. Indeed, nothing holds him back. He is completely free in his choice. But in order to make the right choice, he should really know what to choose between. V: As a matter of

fact, this is so simple and so natural. People stop listening to the voice in their heads and start thinking of how to help others. It’s like they say, if you feel bad, find the one who feels worse and help him — you yourself will feel better. IM: In the past, a slightly different practice was used — through discipline and mutual respect. There was at least an elementary thing — understanding, At least at the level of consciousness, and also adherence to this. In other words, consciousness tries to impose something, like the voice in one’s head, those

very “actors”, — you should refuse it. Consciousness says one thing, while you — no, something different. And the feeling of that something different also led precisely to perception through feelings of what they had in common. And people perceived this way too. This is available in all religions, Just the paths are slightly different. V: Yes, everything begins with self-discipline. Then all this… when people are in a group, they understand that, when everyone does their part, all this as a whole leads to good things in the group. IM: Here’s the key point: everything begins, first and foremost,

with self-discipline. And this has been mentioned always and at all times, no matter whom we take, I mean those who really worked on themselves, followed the path, And not just talked and bragged about this at every turn, — everything begins merely with self-discipline; only a person himself can come to the Spiritual World if he indeed has a burning desire… And the most interesting thing is that we have interrupted Andrey, it’s unfair. A: It’s okay, I just… it’s so interesting, too… such a vivid moment. I will simply voice it, then, I don’t know whether you’ll cut

out these shots from the video or not. It’s very interesting. At the level of feelings, I’ve realised that I’m saying the right things, but the wave is wrong. This is so interesting; I mean, I’m sort of saying the right things, disclosing the patterns of consciousness, but I feel that it is somehow like phew — and it changes to a different wave, and somehow… Well, all this is interesting. There is a general flow, but what I’m saying in this flow is as if… IM: This is surely not for this conversation, Andrey. A: I got it. Well,

I can certainly go on… But just so that it doesn’t distract, I mean, you know, here it is going like… phew… IM: I understand, but it’s inappropriate here. V: Indeed, consciousness doesn’t understand. It cannot understand. It is tuned only to obtaining knowledge of the three-dimensional world. That’s all. As for that which lies beyond the limits of three-dimensionality, consciousness is unable to understand it. And there is also another point: when a person begins, tries to understand what spirituality is, for the person it may be culture, or it may be some traditions. In fact, in order to

understand what the Spirit is, what matter is, in order to differentiate them and to understand what this really is, what the deepest feelings are… Spirituality is, first and foremost, understanding that there is the material world and there is the Spiritual World, the World of the deepest feelings, that a person is able to understand, to feel, and eventually to become a resident of that world. This is actually not difficult. One should just apply one’s own understanding and indeed patience, persistence. Then a person understands it all, and all this is natural. T: Well, Volodya, you should agree,

“to apply one’s own understanding” — often consciousness uses this very idea in people’s heads, creating confusion. And you know these examples. Spirituality means Living by the Spirit here and now. While consciousness as the opponent of everything spiritual always unnoticeably tries to apply some kind of its own understanding to the spiritual Knowledge. Igor Mikhailovich once mentioned the Oriental expression, “A person either accepts the Truth as It is and changes himself according to It, or he changes the Truth to please his vile passions, turning it into a lie.” As a result, people distort the Knowledge. V: Yes,

this kind of thing happens very often. Generally speaking, based on my experience, the most natural human state is a state of happiness. It’s not comfortable to live in some everyday commonplace quarrels and squabbles, it’s not nice, not comfortable. While the most natural thing is normal human relations: Kind and neighbourly. It’s an understanding that another person is just like me. He has the same soul as I have. In fact, we have nothing to divide. It’s an understanding that the whole world is united, it is united in Spirit. While it is matter, consciousness divides. T: Volodya, could

you be more specific and give personal examples of spiritual development, already from the perspective of practice: when I know what I choose, finally… it’s no longer a theory that I read in books, it’s no longer a theory that I gathered at all classes Or listened to in the records of videos. Please, share your practical experience. V: For me, in the beginning, probably, the key point became exactly that I saw an example in front of me. That was the first thing because I saw how people were able to control themselves and find ways out of various

situations. There were examples of how you can act in life. There were examples of one kind and examples of another kind. I started asking myself a question, “And how can I react?” I mean, in a specific situation. The very first thing I did was that I began to observe: why do I react to people in such a way? I had a vivid example. I pathologically dislike drunk people. So, once I was riding in one of the buses, and the bus was more or less crowded. A drunk man entered. My first feeling was rejection. But this

man smiled and started reciting poems. For me, it was a shock: he was doing such things, he was reciting with such a feeling, it was amazing. I understood that I must think, or, well, at least react to this man in a totally different way. Because in him I saw “the real human”, not the one I had thought about. So, it turns out that inside me there is the one who thinks badly, but he thinks totally wrong. He doesn’t evaluate a person as he is, but sees only a picture in front of him. So he was

reciting, probably, for about twenty minutes, while we were riding the bus, he didn’t stop. He was doing this with a feeling, it was a poem. And I thought, “Wait! I cannot do this so far, my intellect is not so developed. It turns out the man has something deep, that which troubles him, and he can convey it. A question arises: why do I react in such a way instead of seeing the real picture?” I started searching. Generally speaking, I searched in various directions: both in religions and everywhere. Later on, I began to practice martial arts. I

met people who were able to control themselves. From this my understanding began where exactly I should move and how to work with this. Then, there were our dialogues about various behavioural motives, about how it is possible to react, who “a human” is in general, what he consists of, why he reacts in such a way, and what consciousness is. This was a starting point for me as to what I should study. I went and started rummaging in libraries, to a certain extent familiarizing myself with yoga, with psychology. Then we began to put all this to the

test on ourselves. Because… Well, here it is, life: when the knowledge is applied in life, you understand that it does work, It is real, and it can be worked with. Those “rakes I stepped on” were numerous. That very elementary incomprehension of my own nature. There were indeed plenty of mistakes. When I failed to trace a point of envy in myself at a certain time and wanted some material welfare. Naturally, I found myself in a situation where I had to implement that which… As it is said, I made all mistakes possible. Any situation is an experience.

One should look into oneself. As a matter of fact, that was my first realisation That I should take responsibility for myself, for my life, and for my spiritual development. I started working with meditations and spiritual practices. And that’s when I understood where I can find this very state of peace, this very state of some inner happiness, in which nothing else is needed. There is no need to strive for any achievement, it’s already there. There is an internal state of peace. There is an internal state of some spiritual elation. That’s what I found in practices. That’s

it, then I simply began to work with this. It became my inner state. Gradually… there were still falls, there were rises, but it already became that very guiding star, a thin thread which I seized, recalled that “yes, it is there.” I gained a certain experience. It gave me an opportunity to study this science more profoundly. In fact, this is what helped me personally. And when I saw that I could achieve this on my own — there it is, it turned out to be not difficult. You should just apply some inner intention to this, it’s not

a desire, but rather an intention And then work with it quite easily. Later on, when such situations appeared, I could already solve them in everyday life quite easily. And from the position of calmness, it’s already obvious where a situation comes from, where I invested attention, why the situation unfolded like this, where some pattern of mine has been activated. Everything began to be resolved normally; situations started levelling out. And relationships with people already became visible: where they start and how to conduct them better, how to interact in a better way. Relationships with people began to level

out. All this became the beginning of establishing myself on this path, so to say. T: Very well, thank you. Andrey, what about you? Please, share your practical experience. A: Yes, indeed, there is such an experience. When I came across the knowledge, I understood that I had no idea of my dual nature. I didn’t understand that there are two natures in me which, so to say, fight for my attention. And that very point became crucial. I started exploring one and the other nature, meaning, the Animal nature and the Spiritual nature, or, let’s say, the good force

within me and the evil force within me. What inside me induces activation of these forces? In other words, how do they operate, why is it that sometimes I am angry and sometimes I’m not? T: Could you, please, give some personal examples, an experience that may be useful for other people as well? A: Well, I’m now sitting and trying to recall. It seems like there have been many things, but what is now surfacing… Well, I’ll say it as it is. The greatest thing that urged me onto this path was actually a desire to Live. When I

started seriously working on myself, those situations that took place in life, let’s say, in the invisible world, those situations added understanding and acuity for me that, on the one hand, human life seems to be simple, but on the other hand, it is very complex and very valuable. Why? Because one should be very, very careful in it. A single wrong step can cause irreversible consequences. The first mistake, I had such a mistake, too, is when thoughts emerge in your head that in order to develop spiritually you should abandon your job, should abandon the social environment which

you live in, should go somewhere, for instance, to the mountains or to the forest as a hermit and engage in spiritual development there. It’s a huge mistake that I encountered as well. Why? Because these thoughts come from consciousness. They, on the contrary, try to remove a person from the environment where he is the most useful And his development will be the most effective. Just look, in the forest there are no people with whom, let’s say, we feel uncomfortable, and we won’t be able to figure out: why do we feel uncomfortable? After all, people are mirrors

for us, right? I mean, if a person irritates me in something, then, first and foremost, this is present in me, these are some things in me which are not worked through. In the forest, I won’t see such mirrors. When I already engaged in practices, I understood that this world is aggressive Towards people who do this and towards people in general. This world wants to divide people for them to be at odds. Recently, there was an interesting situation. Once, after a nighttime meditation, I came over, was talking to guys, and I felt that inside I had

such a state as if something valuable was given to me, but it was as if not within me yet, just near me. And interesting situations started happening. I met the first person, and he immediately asked me such a question, I mean, not even a question, but, let’s say, he gave me a certain guide for action in quite an aggressive and emotional form. I thought, “Calm down!” And I asked myself a question, “What is happening? Why is the person so aggressive towards me?” While he was telling me, “You must do this, you must…” I thought, “Oh,

what an interesting dialogue, even not a dialogue, but rather a monologue.” I responded to this person, “Okay, okay…” and in the meantime I left and understood that some not quite good hesitations began to occur inside me. I realised that the valuable gift which I had received might now abandon me. The next phase. I retreated and realised that I shouldn’t talk to this person now, under no circumstances should I be drawn into emotion. That is, I definitely shouldn’t become outraged that he was talking to me emotionally. So I retreated. But then a totally different person ran

up, looked into my eyes and asked, “Are you okay?!” I was standing there and saying, “Yes… I’m okay…” I moved away from him and thought, “I really need to leave”, Because I realised that I was on such a verge. On the one hand, I seemed to understand everything, but I felt that I could lose, therefore I kind of didn’t want to play bravado. By the way, it’s one of the patterns, like, “I can do anything, I’m cool.” I realised that it was better for me to leave. I got into the car, drove away from the

place, and suddenly I received a phone call: water delivery. They told me, “You ordered water.” I said, “I didn’t order any water.” I just said it calmly. V: The system activated. A: Yes. I said, “I didn’t order water.” A thought came to me right away who had ordered this water. I called this person and said, “Listen, did you order water?” He said, “Yes, I ordered water.” Meanwhile, I had already left the place by that time, so I told him, “Do you understand that there is no one there to accept it? Where are you?” He answered,

“I’m at the workshop.” And that’s when I realised at the inner level that, conventionally speaking again, As if they put “a loaded gun” into my hands and said, “You can now tell this person off.” V: There was a suggestion of some kind of annoyance, of becoming angry. A: Yes. You can now tell him off like, “How could you do it that you ordered water and left without letting anyone know?”, and so on, and so forth. I realised that the system had just put “a weapon” into my hands, and I only needed to “pull the trigger.”

I understood that all this power would now simply go into that person. At the same time, I realised that I shouldn’t do this, meaning, I shouldn’t respond emotionally to him. I said, “Really? Well, okay, we’ll sort it out. That’s fine, everything’s okay, we’ll handle it.” Then they called me already from water delivery, and I started apologising to them. I said, “Guys, please, excuse us, we forgot and left.” It seems I’m right, am I? And the situation seems to have no direct relation to me, and by the logic of consciousness, I have all the arguments to

express everything to the person and explain to people that I didn’t order water, so why are they calling me at all? But I apologised to them, “Sorry,” I said. “Here’s the phone number of a person who deals with this. Please, talk to him, he’ll take care of everything.” And I felt that at a certain point in time this bliss which had been around me, it as if… entered me. So, during this entire time, for several hours, there was a play for this inner power: will I waste it on pridefulness or not? After all, this is

actually pridefulness. Pridefulness in what sense? A person is talking to me emotionally. And what should I do? Should I react or not, respond in the same manner, tell him, “Pardon me, why are you talking to me like that?” or simply retreat gently and keep silent? Such situations teach us. These are little lessons by which you understand what this inner power really is and how it all works, how the system operates at such moments, and in which ways. But nearly always, it plays on pridefulness. At a certain point, I started realising the value of Allat powers,

the value of the powers which Personality needs For its spiritual growth. A person is able to feel these powers coming into him, he is given such an ability. And precisely the long-term experience of contact with Knowledge and the experience of certain degrees of spiritual freedom allows you to make this choice. That is, I understand that if I now act according to the patterns of consciousness, I will lose that power which will help me to be above consciousness or, let’s say, to be… V: …more alive. A: …more alive, yes. And this very state and understanding of

what being Alive means, and what it means to be enslaved by consciousness, meaning, to be dead, it is precisely this very stimulus that enables you to make a decision. Roughly speaking, I’m being offered to defend the ego of consciousness by means of my vital force. But I don’t agree with this. T: Well, this is certainly good. But the issue is in something different here, because in this case, the trigger was exactly a thought from secondary consciousness that “they didn't get your approval.” When you are a participant of these illusory games of consciousness, of this fight

between primary and secondary consciousness, “the fight for the crown”, then, unfortunately, you as Personality don’t see what is really happening. Because in this situation, everything is much simpler. Consciousness — yes, it likes to make a mountain out of a molehill; It enjoys blowing up a situation, to make an emotional event out of nothing. And in fact, in this case there have been many more patterns of consciousness voiced than conclusions drawn. V: Again, this is precisely internal freedom and understanding that I can choose one or another thing, choose some way of action. Then it helps a

great deal. Yet, this is, first of all, knowledge and experience, when you start working with this. Such things happen very often. There is always a moment when we make a choice. It’s always there. It’s just that more often a person misses this moment and acts according to a pattern. Understanding that we can timely stop ourselves in any situation, and make an adequate decision in time, gives us an opportunity to be in contact with any person, to resolve any situation, even a conflict one, in a normal way. A: On the subject of what Igor Mikhailovich is

saying… Precisely laziness and unthorough knowledge of the system results in the fact that people begin to desire what must not be desired. The system doesn’t sleep, and it works through close people. That is, I wanted to say that one of the ways when relationships with people go wrong, the first thing needed is by no means to blame a person, and it’s not important whether you are right or wrong, you should ask for his forgiveness at least in thoughts. After all, what do we do with him in thoughts by means of consciousness? We argue and try

to prove our point, that we are supposedly right, while somebody is wrong, Or we resent. This is, first of all, a habit and a lack of experience. V: Of experience and attention. Understanding of yourself. A: While working on myself, I once adopted as a rule that I don’t talk to anyone in my head. You know, it often happens that when some situation has happened to a person, maybe a conflict one, maybe of some other kind, and we talk to this person in our head, trying to prove something to him. Or simply, something good has happened

to us, and we model something in our head, how we come to someone and tell him. This should not be done under any circumstances. Why? Because in our head, we enter into a dialogue, pardon me, with our consciousness. Our consciousness is very interested in this. Why? Because such dialogues with consciousness often occur in the emotional sphere. Emotion is a conductor of the Animal nature in a human. We redirect our power needed for spiritual development and give it to consciousness. Hence, in such a way, we feed consciousness and strengthen the one who will later be enslaving

us. There are frequent cases, common at the initial stage of performing spiritual practices, when the following thoughts come, "The spiritual practice doesn't work out for me." This is consciousness speaking about itself now. But this is really so. However, consciousness makes a substitution; it speaks about it as if from Personality. I mean, if a person forgets that he cannot think and the voice in his head does not belong to him, He accepts it all as his own and begins to invest the power of his attention in these words. In order to understand this, firstly, you should,

pardon me, begin to banally study your consciousness, to simply track it. Basically, for this you only need a notebook and a pen. As of today, we already understand that human Personality is unable to think, and it is unable to experience emotions. Personality only feels. In other words, Personality cannot be angry, offended or envious. It feels. Taking this fact into account, it is very easy to work with this. We take a notebook and a pen and simply write down those thoughts which we observe in our heads. Our consciousness likes to speculate very much. Let's say, there

is a simple example. I talk to a person, he has looked at me somehow strangely, and to someone in me it has seemed that he has taken offence at me. And consciousness tells me, "He has taken offence at you because there was…", and it starts making up why and for what reason. I take a notebook and write down, "Consciousness tells me that the person has taken offence at me because of this or that" I approach this person and say, "Excuse me, please, here's such a situation. Tell me, please, is this so?” He tells me entirely

opposite things, that this has nothing to do with me at all, And those were just some of his issues. But at that moment, let's say, I lost my vigilance and allowed my consciousness to make these assumptions. As of today, a lot of such situations have accumulated. V: Nonetheless, you went ahead and checked it out. A: Yes, you should definitely check. That is, why is catharsis needed, and why is it necessary to communicate and to speak about what is happening inside? Because this way we can find out the truth. Consciousness likes to fill in the blanks

regarding Who thinks what, who does what, and it sort of constantly presents these theories to a person, Personality. And since a person starts listening to this, he begins to have a lot of problems in his life because he is guided by conjectures and assumptions. Very interesting moments occur during catharsis. Why? Because there comes a relief. The first thing that happens, first of all, is that this voice in your head falls silent, and the dialogue stops right away, instantly. Situations are resolved peacefully, and a new understanding comes. There comes an understanding that there is an influence

on that person as well. So, as a matter of fact, these conversations, dialogues often happen not only, let’s say, in my head, but also in the head of the one with whom I do this in my thoughts. Why? Because if there is some covert reticence between people, or if people do not open up in terms of what the Animal nature tells them, They fall into these closed loops and traps of consciousness. Thus, the system imposes the same thoughts on them, aimed at division between them. After all, the system’s main task is to divide people. And

it divides them by means of thoughts, meaning, it turns us against each other in our thoughts. In order to avoid this, it is simply necessary to unite in spite of anything, whatever a situation may be. And for this unification to be more simple, heartfelt and easy, it is necessary to expose the thoughts of the Animal nature in oneself. V: It is written both in the articles and in the books that the power of the system is in secrecy, in the fact that it is not visible. A: Right. And noticing this dialogue in my head or

some kind of desire inside me to say something to someone, I just stopped it. I just said to myself, "Stop. That’s it, I don’t communicate." Or there is another very good way, this is certainly one of the best ways: if this is your friend, call that person and say, "You know, I'm now talking to you in my head And telling you this, this, and this," or "Right now in my head, I’m arguing with you regarding such and such matter." V: These arguments begin, first of all, inside, and later on it all spills out. But if

you do not let this conflict unfold either in your head or outside — that’s it, everything is resolved peacefully, and there are no conflicts. A: I’d like to give one of such examples, by the way, quite a funny one. Our movement is multinational, There are people of different nationalities in it. And so, once a funny incident happened. I have an acquaintance — a representative of the peoples of Caucasus. I am friends with him, and we communicate in our activities. At some point, I noticed in myself a strange reaction to some of his actions. All of

a sudden, he started annoying me; someone in me didn’t like the way he behaved, how he said something. I realized that it shouldn’t be this way. I met with him and said, "Listen, excuse me please, do you have a minute? We need to talk. You see, my Animal nature doesn’t like that you do this and this. I don’t understand why this is happening, I don’t know…” He looked at me with such wide open eyes and said, "You know, the Animal nature has been telling me for already three days that you don’t like representatives of the

Caucasus nationality." Can you imagine that?! I didn’t even have thoughts of this kind! So, it tells me one thing from the perspective of my patterns, Of my pridefulness, and it tells him that all of a sudden I started treating him somehow not nicely because he’s a representative of a different nationality. When we talked about this, we laughed, of course. I said, "Forgive me, please, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I don’t want to either quarrel or fight with you. I want to be friends. I understand that this is the system, that it wants to divide us;

it wants us to quarrel and so on…" We talked like that, and afterwards, There was not a single thought towards any offences, not just offences, but even any mutual claims. Why? Because at that moment I realised that when I came and asked him for forgiveness, even though there was seemingly no reason for that, the system didn’t expect such a turn of events. It thought that, on the contrary, there would again be a manifestation of pridefulness, maybe, of some kind of male rivalry. The system likes to play on this, for instance, alpha domination among men, same

as among women, such sort of things. But there was this open dialogue and a sincere desire not to side with the system, I mean, a sincere desire not to support it. At least for the present moment, the system hasn’t even tried to offer these thoughts anymore. Hence, such a unity took place. V: The mechanism hasn’t worked, so it makes no sense to activate the same mechanism which doesn’t work. Once we have noticed this — that’s it, the system has no nourishment, a person doesn’t give attention. He has either resolved the situation with humour or interacted

with another person, and they have resolved it. That’s all. It hasn’t managed… Bang! — that’s it, the system has retreated. When consciousness gets activated, at some point it begins to throw in a little judgement, “This one is not right, that one does it wrong. While that one seems totally stupid…” or something else. On the sly, it gently and subtly creeps in like a snake in the grass. Thus, this vector is gradually redirected. A person has reached a deadlock and begins to fear, “What happened? Why is there no joy?” A search for the guilty one begins.

And this snowball overwhelms the person. However, he is Personality inside, he has a soul inside, he has feelings inside, and they haven’t disappeared anywhere. He should just give himself a clear directive, “Okay, stop. That’s it. I do have feelings. They haven’t disappeared anywhere. I’m heading for the Spiritual World. Joy is always there.” So, one should give oneself a clear directive, “That’s it. I don’t listen to the voice in my head. I don’t judge anyone, I don’t strive anywhere except my single vector — the vector towards the spiritual.” That’s it, and consciousness retreats, it releases its

hold. For as long as a human body is living, for as long as we are here, we can change everything. One of the indicators that a person is Indeed moving along the spiritual path is a state of peace, a state of inner freedom. Firstly, relationships with all people are restored because you no longer need to dominate. You understand what consciousness is, and you stop manipulating people. Naturally, you understand when, for example, a certain manipulation is directed towards you too, but you are simply uninterested in it. You just go round this sharp corner, and the conflict

is somehow smoothed over. That’s it. Everything is somehow resolved in an amicable way. A: In this regard, I also have a very interesting example. Once at a class, we agreed with the group participants to work on the pattern of manipulation. We agreed that nobody will give any advice to another person, not just in their family, but to any person at all, if they don’t ask for it, and everything that a person can do himself, he will do it on his own, without asking another person for help. Relationships changed radically. T: And what, in your opinion,

favours unification between people, based on your personal experience? V: In my opinion, what favours unification between people is that, first and foremost, people meet and have some common interests. Interests in learning, interests in doing something together, some good deed for the benefit of other people, in order to help someone. When this state of peace comes, the state of being able to comfortably communicate with each other, this also gives a sense of unity. People just shouldn’t listen to their consciousness. A: Look, the situation is fractal. Just as consciousness strives to divide us in thoughts, in the

same way, it strives to divide us already not in our heads, But in communication, in groups. In what way? By the same scheme: divide and rule. That is, often, people who promote such ideas as “go here, don’t go there, socialize with these people, do not socialize with those people” — they tritely listen to their consciousness which installs the same programs aimed at division. Even if somebody dislikes something, or something doesn’t suit somebody… Yet, it doesn’t suit whom? Something always doesn’t suit consciousness. Thus, instead of simply coming and discussing some acute points and really exposing thoughts

from consciousness, people often listen to it and carry these ideas into the masses. Well, let’s say, this will not harm a spiritually evolving person. Why? Because he will understand that this is the work of the system. It is simply that, just as the system works inside him, trying to separate him from other people, in the same way the system works in groups, trying to divide already groups of people who are going in the same direction. In the same way, nowadays, as you yourselves know, the system has divided all religions and everything else. I mean, when

one grain of knowledge was sown, and now it has, so to say, given shoots supposedly “in various directions”, although all this is one. In exactly the same way, they divide. After all, the desire for power and, again, for secret power, leads to the fact that people promote these ideas aimed at division. Therefore, there is nothing surprising here, this is a natural process, these are natural laws of the system. The only thing is that for spiritually evolving people this is unacceptable. I mean, a spiritually evolving person, on the contrary, must strive for unity, for unification, for

love and brotherhood. Because we have nothing to divide. You have asked: what unites people? It’s my opinion, let’s say, from my personal experience. People are united by one very important point — The aspiration to survive. To survive not only in the material sense, but to survive spiritually. You see, we have faced the strongest enemy that humanity has — it’s the Animal mind system. And we will be able to overcome this system only if we unite. This very law is often used, let’s say, by the powers that be as well, who set peoples against each other.

Why? They take the idea of an external enemy, convince a certain population that there is an external enemy, And this unites people. That’s a good quality when people rally against some aggression or danger. But the thing is that the aggressor is different, the danger is different. I mean, the danger is actually, as it turns out… V: …inside every person. A: Absolutely right, it’s invisible. In other words, they show the wrong enemy. They show that the enemy is, as if, in another person, in his individuality, while in actual fact, the enemy is within us. And globally,

it’s the system. If people unite in the aspiration to survive and get to know the Spiritual World, and pardon me, ultimately to gain as much as immortality… After all, it is easier to do this in a group. That way, the power increases tenfold. This is just a process, a study of that very system. For instance, we are sitting here, there are several of us, each having his or her own experience. Say, we have shared, and we have already enriched each other with experience. Each of us can already avoid going through a certain situation. Again, while

performing spiritual practices in a group, We feel ourselves filled. There is a difference when you practice alone, and when you do it in a group. It’s an enormous difference. This point is very important today. If people really understand what their goal is, it will be very easy for them to unite. Then, indeed, just as it is said in the books that when a person studies the system, understands its laws, realizes that there is immortality and realizes that this world is an illusion, for him, life in this world becomes just an interesting, fascinating game, And he

already, as it is said, is freely heading for freedom. Hence, he is steadily developing, it is interesting for him, and everything brings him pleasure and joy. He has no problems and no enemies. T: At that, how has your life changed after familiarization with the AllatRa Knowledge? V: It changes one’s entire life completely. It is much more interesting and comfortable to live this way, when you understand where you are going and what for. In general, there is an understanding of the essence of the processes that take place around you, An understanding of other people. When you

understand a person even from the perspective of the acquired knowledge, you already understand why a person acts like this, what is manifesting in him now. It is much easier to forgive him, to understand him, and to interact in such a way that he would feel better. That is, to avoid conflicts, to understand absolutely everything that takes place. To know one’s inner state. There is such an expression, “To live in Spirit.” This precisely means to live in joy, To live in happiness, in interaction with other people. It is much more interesting to live this way. Generally

speaking, I cannot imagine how I would live in conflicts, in some quarrels. What kind of life is that? It doesn’t look like normal human life. Normal human life is when we do something together, interact in some way, ultimately understand: there is the Spiritual World, there is this very deep inner perception of happiness, there is true life. This is precisely what a person acquires, And what I personally understood for myself and accepted such life as natural. I understand that this life of the material body will end, it will just pass away, and I will go on.

All this gives me a life goal. Usually, when we observe in everyday life, for some reason, people have lifeless eyes, especially elderly people. This is fear due to a lack of knowledge of what will happen afterwards. Life, when you know that it will end… It is scary for a person who has no goal. What kind of life is that, when he knows that everything comes to an end?! He looks in a mirror, and he is scared that he is changing. Wrinkles appear, some physical weariness emerges. He can no longer do what he did before. He

starts being afraid of what is happening to him in general. Fear of death overrides everything; it even overrides those years or months of life which still remain for a person. He understands that the life of his body is coming to an end, but he is scared because he doesn’t know what is next. However, exploring yourself and learning the ALLATRA science, You understand that life doesn’t really end. Life only begins when your body ceases to exist. But this Life has to be found here. A: There are no limits in learning. When you engage in spiritual practices,

and, let’s say, you manage to detach from the body, you feel what it means when you are not bound to the body; and later on, you return as if into a suit that is too tight, that squeezes and suffocates you, and to this invisible slab over your head which is called “consciousness”, Then you don’t have fear of transition. Because you understand that all these things do not exist there. I mean, there are no endless problems with the body, no endless confrontation with consciousness, and so on, and so forth. V: There is freedom there. A: Yes.

Transition takes place into what is better. But again, one should work on this, one should gain personal experience, otherwise for a person, these will be just words. I will say about myself, that my life has changed, It is changing, and, as I understand, this is not the limit yet. Because indeed, that way of life which I had before the AllatRa Knowledge, when I encountered it, and now — this… Everything is built up as Volodya has said, everything around the goal. Movement towards the goal is like a movement of a locomotive. While moving towards the goal,

it draws all life circumstances and everything up to this goal. Why? Because in fact, nothing prevents you from developing spiritually. For me, the uniqueness of the book AllatRa is that this book, if I may say so, doesn't end. I mean, it’s an infinite book which contains plenty of knowledge. Moreover, what attracts me personally is that a very good and deep energy is embedded there, you know, as they say, between the lines. In other words, what is laid out there between the lines makes my inner world unfold to the utmost. Once I already said that one

of the ways to be in spirit and to maintain oneself in such, let’s say, an elevated spiritual state is reading the book AllatRa. So, in addition to enrichment with knowledge for consciousness, Meaning, with some facts, and so on, and so forth, you also tune quite well to that wave which is invisibly embedded there. As a matter of fact, this wave is present both in the videos with Igor Mikhailovich Danilov and in the books by Anastasia Novykh. But, most importantly, AllatRa for me is a key to Life, meaning, it’s a key by means of which a

person can really turn from an ordinary mortal creature into an immortal being. Absolutely all the keys are there. And I will tell you that as of today I’ve Already lost count of how many times I read it. Probably, the count is over twenty times, and I read it — and there i s something new every time. Because, as Igor Mikhailovich said in one of the videos, “it depends on which eyes you look with and which ears you listen with.” Literally, as of today, I’ve come to an understanding that in this book, every letter is significant.

I mean, literally, some little emphasis, suspension points somewhere, open a boundless depth, some silent understanding of what lies behind that. This is certainly amazing. And I will tell you that today I cannot live without it. I mean, just as we feed the body, this is exactly what feeds the spirit. Yet, as we already understand today, it is much more important to feed the spirit than to feed the body. V: Personal experience is the most valuable. Development of Personality takes place only when Personality takes an active part in this, when it is involved. And Personality grows

and evolves only when it gains experience through feelings, meaning, a person is being born spiritually. A: I would like to add, I will tell you about myself. I still have a lot to work on myself, and pridefulness is not dead yet. But, let’s say, the process has already become very, very interesting. If previously there were some misunderstandings and some hesitations, now simply the process of polishing, accumulation of experience is already going on. In other words, this is already interesting, indeed. An understanding comes… again, we have talked with you about Allat. At a certain point, this

also became a very deep understanding for me. Unfortunately, our society is such That it is accustomed to appreciating material values, but is unaccustomed to appreciating spiritual values. Spiritual not in the sense of some works of art, icons, temples and some ritual buildings, but in the sense of spirituality, in the sense of these powers which really grant liberation to Personality. Because in fact, we are all here in order to learn to properly use our attention and to direct the powers of Allat where it is necessary, meaning, towards our spiritual liberation. While the system precisely does everything

so That we spend this power on everything external. And a person stands on this verge, meaning, he is learning. Again, he has an experience of being in feelings. When he is in spirit and when he’s not in spirit — these are two different states. When you are in spirit, consciousness is silent, and you feel and understand that, except Love, nothing exists in this world. But when consciousness predominates in you, you, unfortunately, see, pardon me, only muck. Such contrasts give an understanding of what is what, how you should work with it, Why this happens, at which

stages. And so, in such a way, somehow little by little it is progressing. T: Thank you. In our turn, we would also like to share the experience of formation and development of our female group. Zh: Yes, surely, and if we tell it briefly, we have a purely female group. In the beginning, while the group was forming, clearly, various situations took place. Everyone certainly came with an open heart, but each person had their own aspirations. It turned out that consciousness of different people Interpreted the desire to discover the spiritual together in different ways because someone wanted

to learn some supernatural abilities, others wanted magic, for someone achievement of their own goals and implementation of desires in three-dimensionality was more important. While some just couldn’t part with their pridefulness. Although, certainly, it was a pity that we had to part ways with those girls, since many of them had good potential. But there must be harmony in the group. Theory is theory. But if everyone strives for the same thing in practice — for spiritual work on themselves, for living by the Spiritual World within themselves, then the group is also like a single being. And, most

importantly, the results of every person mean reinforcement of the potential of advancement of the group as a whole. But we still hope that everything will be fine for the girls whom we parted with, that they will achieve what they want on their own, and eventually will be able to step Over the illusions of their consciousness. So, when a group of like-minded people formed, for whom honesty, openness and, certainly, a true desire to explore the spiritual path in practice prevailed, then the process of development of the group went on very fast. Practices began to go in

a completely different way. A collective experience emerged, and completely different questions began to arise, which were associated precisely with personal practical spiritual development. And to these specific questions, Igor Mikhailovich already gave specific answers. And much of what we learned at that time has been voiced in today’s conversation. This is very important for people because it’s a great spiritual help. T: Yes, and already being at this stage, you understand mistakes, you understand the reasons why you previously were stuck at some stages. And certainly, the main reason is that back then, you didn't live by this in

reality, you didn’t work on yourself seriously, you didn’t apply in practice Everything that had been said, everything that had been read or heard in the videos with Igor Mikhailovich. You even understand how silly the questions were which you wanted to ask Igor Mikhailovich at that time, questions from consciousness. However, back then, they seemed important and meaningful to you, or rather not to you, but to your consciousness. While you didn’t know the Spirit in yourself yet. But now you understand that definitely, nobody will give spiritual answers to questions that come from consciousness. As we ourselves became

convinced in practice: as the question, so the answer, from whom a question comes — that’s whom Igor Mikhailovich responds to. IM: Absolutely right. Zh: Yes, and now you simply work on yourself, you simply act from the deepest feelings. You do not ask questions as before, from the mind, from consciousness. You simply seek unity which comes because you are in an incessant dialogue with God. And the thing is that it really takes place every day. You don’t look for a specially assigned time or, let’s say, somehow in fragments — “to work on yourself”, “not to work

on yourself”, or, for instance, “now you are doing this, later you are not.” No. It’s a decision made once, but it is mature; it’s a profound, inner decision. And you simply remain faithful to yourself in this decision, you remain faithful to God. Meaning, you do not betray yourself, you serve God, you serve the Spiritual World here and now. T: Absolutely right. And there is no such thing as you serve today and do not serve tomorrow. Well, what is this? It’s not a choice. Zh: Yes. Now, you really understand the reasons and mistakes of the past

compared to the present. For instance, many of us previously attended Volodya’s classes, Andrey’s classes, and other people’s, too. But every time, there was a surge, there was some theoretical understanding, there were some initial practical attempts. But later on, there came a point of marking time. Such time-marking states sometimes lasted for years. That is, you seemed to be aspiring, you clung onto these groups, onto the leaders, as your life-saving straw, but you felt that there was no advancement, that some stagnation was taking place. T: Right. You moved from one group to another, trying to find a

way out of this dead end, hoping for something, but hoping in the external, that somebody will help you. Zh: But it is only now that you understand why this was happening in practice. And in fact, this situation is fractally repeated in the world in various organisations, in groups, by and large, where people collectively aspire to follow the spiritual path, where consciousness stands in the way as an obstacle, like Igor Mikhailovich said. Therefore, we consider it necessary to analyze this subject in more detail, let it be on particular examples, on the examples of our good friends,

like-minded people, for instance, Volodya and Andrey. What can be seen, what can be felt now, at what stage they stopped, and consequently, the same stop happened to those who follow them, So that they and many other people can only benefit from this experience. As for Volodya, he tells a lot of theoretical things. And for those who are starting their path, it’s important, it is interesting. One should indeed have great patience in order to answer all those numerous questions from beginners, questions from consciousness: “Who am I? Why doesn't meditation work out for me? Or, I have

a situation in everyday life or in relationships with my loved ones, what should I do?”, or “They do not understand me”, or “How can I be happy?”, And many other questions. Therefore, we should do justice to Volodya’s courage. He hears everyone out, he patiently answers questions from people’s consciousness. And as an initial, as a preliminary stage, this is good. However, afterwards, you no longer understand why a year or two years pass, but you are still in the same place where you were. You feel that the first breakthrough did take place, but there is no further

growth. You hear the same examples as you heard before. You hear the same theory as you heard before. But somehow you don’t understand what you are doing wrong, what’s the problem? Why are you standing still? Why is there no movement forward? As a group leader, Volodya tells a lot of theoretical things. But what does he live by in reality? After all, we are saying this not because the problem is with Volodya; this problem applies to many people. So, as for specifically practical experience, many people stop exactly at the aspiration for achieving a state of peace,

a state of comfort, Improvement of relationships with people, meaning, at the aspiration to peacefully resolve a conflict situation in three-dimensionality through tranquility. And they tell other people about this. Because, when you answer another person’s question, you first of all voice precisely what you understand in yourself, what concerns you, and how you would like to resolve this within yourself. Thus, these people content themselves with an illusion of life. Therefore, many of their examples are no different from table talks. This is as if relatives have simply gathered at one table, and each person recalls something edifying from

their life in three-dimensionality: who you were before, how you resolved conflicts, and what feats you performed in three-dimensionality. While in the spiritual, and this is strongly felt, there is merely a desire to be like this, a theoretical intention from consciousness and a suggestion to yourself that you are following the spiritual path, that you are evolving. However, as a matter of fact, It’s a stage of hovering between autogenic training and meditation. It is life by consciousness; it is doubts and fear inside. That’s why there is a desire to achieve at least peace and balance in meditation.

It’s a constant inculcation simply like in autogenic training, just as Volodya has said today that, “One should give oneself a clear directive: stop, that’s it. I do have feelings. They haven’t disappeared anywhere. I’m heading for the Spiritual World. I don’t judge anyone, I don’t strive anywhere except my single vector — The vector towards the spiritual.” In fact, this is merely autosuggestion. As for the initial stage of restraining one’s consciousness, the stage of autogenic training, this is good. But, unfortunately, many people stop at that. And consciousness continues playing a movie, therefore people often think that they

engage in the spiritual. But in reality, these are just attempts to get rid of inner fears which their own consciousness imposes on them. That’s why they are afraid of taking the next step because their consciousness, which opposes everything spiritual in a person, Gets activated. These are just hopes for living by spiritual reality, for living by spiritual joy, but it is not Life itself. It is shifting responsibility, responsibility for your salvation, onto someone who serves as a role model for you. However, salvation is everyone’s own business, as Igor Mikhailovich once told us. That is why, in

theory, these people talk about life in a dialogue with God, about life by perception through feelings, about life by the Spirit, And also that “it is normal, it is natural”, that you should “return to this state”, “you shouldn’t let it go.” But in practice, this understanding is still from consciousness, this understanding still lives in three-dimensionality. It’s a stage when, through an altered state of consciousness, a person merely strives to reach that peace which Igor Mikhailovich was talking about, when “you are neither here nor there.” But what prevents you from moving further? Fear. Fear from consciousness

to lose something in three-dimensionality, fear of death, fear of losing some image from consciousness, Contrived by people themselves, fear to look somehow wrong in front of others, in front of dear and near people, being afraid of their opinion… opinion of their consciousness. Hence, there is fear of the external when this actually concerns the internal. But here you decide for yourself what you need more: external conformity with images of three-dimensionality, games with masks of the system, or really Life by this inner freedom, freedom from fears and illusions, Life in practice, Life by the Spirit. Meanwhile, Andrey

has another situation, and this situation is also common to many people. Here we can feel practical experience of working on oneself, therefore there are many sensible practical examples which are interesting both to hear and to keep in mind for your own practice. Yet, what often appears in Andrey’s explanations? The fact that we can hear about a constant fight, about opposition to the Animal nature, about “replenishment with the powers of Allat”, “a fight for the powers of Allat”; That these powers are needed for Personality’s spiritual growth, that a person is able to feel them entering. All

this is correct, there is an understanding of the value of the powers of Allat. But it is just a certain stage, that stage when a person has come into contact with the invisible world, with all this magic from consciousness. And at this stage, as Igor Mikhailovich said, “hunting for Allat powers” takes place. It’s a stage of hovering between meditation and spiritual practice. It is just one of the stages when a person gets stuck in this fight with his Animal nature. And many people encounter this. It’s just one of the tricks of consciousness: accumulation of powers

and constant fight. Yet, when a person fights, there is no true Love in him. He merely invests all his attention in this fight rather than in multiplying his spiritual Love. Although everything is actually simple. When you live in multiplying God’s Love, there is vigil, yet there is no exhausting fight. You just multiply this divine Love in yourself while immersing in the inner Source — The Source which is in you, the true and boundless one. You do not seek in the external that which you have inside yourself. But it is wonderful that Andrey speaks honestly, just

the way it is, about what is happening to him and what kind of difficulties he faces. He is not afraid of other people’s opinions; he tears the mask of consciousness, the system’s mask, off himself in front of everyone. Although he still lives by the external, he already aspires to live by inner processes as well. And this is truly valuable. Why is this valuable? Because, for example, just imagine, that if now a clergyman, no matter of which religious organization, would just come out to people and honestly say to his flock, ”I’m sorry, but I don’t know,

I have doubts. I don’t know whether there is God or there is no God. But I truly hope, I truly believe that He exists. Yet, so far I don’t know how to live by Spirit, to live by Truth, in freedom, in God’s Love. My demons prevent me from understanding this. I simply have fear. I’ve learned the theory, but I don’t have spiritual practice. Yet, I aspire, I want to. So, let’s try together, let’s pray, let’s perform some rituals that our fathers and grandfathers performed in the hope of getting into heaven, maybe something will work out

for us, too…” What do you think consciousness would tell the flock about such a clergyman? Well, that is why the clergy wear masks of “spiritual omniscience”. And this problem is on a very large scale. Because clergymen of various religions Who truly strive for God get stuck precisely in this exhausting fight with their own demons. Just think of that: millions of clergymen behind whom there are billions of believers… So, this is the way people live: some suffer in doubt under the masks of images while others comfort themselves with false hopes, shifting responsibility onto someone else and

believing in these empty images. Yet, there is also another trick of consciousness, By which people are hooked quite willingly. It is what became clear to us at the stage of formation of our group, when some of our girls visited a person who himself became stuck at extrasensory perception, meaning: he was seized with a thirst for secret power over people through magic… Well, this is precisely what lured some of the girls. But in that case, there was only theory and illusions; it was merely a desire to seem, but not to be; these were just personal fears

from consciousness, but nothing more than that. T: Yes. By the way, Igor Mikhailovich, We would be very grateful if you, perhaps a little later, would tell in more detail about the harmfulness of magic. It’s just that people misunderstand a lot of things in these matters; they do not realize what they are doing in actual fact. IM: Certainly. Zh: Yes, it’s an important point. Also, we would like to note that during the period of our running back and forth and searching among groups, we witnessed many times how in various groups people simply chose among themselves who

would lead a class that day. And some people were afraid of overstepping their fear; perhaps, they were somewhat afraid of overstepping their laziness, they were simply afraid to take on responsibility. While for others it was the opposite. But what struck our eyes was that not those people who made good progress in practices were chosen, not those who had something to share in terms of their recently acquired practical experience, but those who were acquainted with Volodya or with somebody else. A special priority was given to the one who knew Igor Mikhailovich personally. T: Yes, but as

Igor Mikhailovich once told us, “there are many people near me at times, but this indicates nothing. Do not create authorities for yourselves and do not draw images because nobody will surmount your path instead of you.” IM: Absolutely right. Zh: Right. Indeed, many people actually set hopes on images from their consciousness, while consciousness at that time comforts itself with secret hopes and pridefulness. Yet, at this time a person doesn’t live by the spiritual, but only engages in it. Therefore, time passes, and these people have no results because they still live to the dictation of consciousness. Thus,

inside them, there live fear and doubts, misunderstanding of the Spiritual World in practice, and this is strongly felt. Let’s even take such examples known to us. No matter how people repeat from their mind what Igor Mikhailovich said, and some even claim this knowledge to be their own experience, it is still felt that they broadcast not from Spirit, but from consciousness; They talk about things they themselves do not live by in practice. At this time, people who listen to them, if consciousness predominates in them too, they create of them images of those who these people are

not in their essence. But this will continue until people learn to feel the truth. There is a big difference when a person broadcasts from the Spirit, and when he merely conveys information from his consciousness, even if it is important. When words from consciousness are voiced, A person seems to be saying important things, you are listening, he seems to be giving useful advice, but you understand that it is sort of superficial, sort of theoretical. That is, the content is interesting, the speaker’s words sound right, but they are empty and ordinary, there is no power behind them.

Whereas, when broadcasting takes place from the Spirit, people feel it right away; they feel this very difference, they feel that there’s power in these words. Why does this happen? Well, as Igor Mikhailovich said, when consciousness starts being endowed with the power from Spirit, a word gains weight. And then already a totally different question arises: what prevails in that person who listens to this word? After all, if he is a slave of consciousness, if the Animal nature predominates in him, then, of course, this entire negativity from the Animal nature, from consciousness, rises inside him, and at

the same time a thirst for possessing the same power of the word emerges. Meaning, a hunt for the powers of Allat begins. Consciousness starts thrashing about in questions, “Where is sorcery here? Where is magic?” Because consciousness understands nothing else. But all its thrashing takes place within the limits of three-dimensionality. So it searches, “Maybe it’s a timbre, perhaps it’s a rhythm, perhaps some frequencies, or maybe some other influence?” But when the Spiritual nature prevails in a person as a listener, then a Spirit communicates with a Spirit. An invisible spiritual assistance is rendered to those Who really

crave being in connection with the Spiritual World, crave for Living in Spirit. And they do not care about the way this will take place because at this moment they are absorbed in the process itself, in that which the eye doesn’t see and the ear doesn’t hear. They are absorbed in spiritual Love, in “what God has prepared for those who love Him.” T: Right, and one shouldn’t build images in three-dimensionality. Because images stimulate either human pridefulness and activate this entire negativity of consciousness, that very envy, that very hatred, anger, judgement, and comparison. Or people deify this

three-dimensional image, and consciousness already creates false hopes, it builds out of it a false support based on illusions, a support on the image. It endows it with those qualities which one or another person has never had. And here’s the kind of thoughts which consciousness throws in to a person, “If this person is benevolent towards me, he will save me, and my spirituality near him will be higher compared to others.” Meaning, there is false hope and pridefulness, but nothing more. So, if a person is a slave of consciousness, then consciousness simply plays an illusory film of

images for him, which consciousness itself invented. A person lives by these images. Consciousness creates images of other people and endows them with such qualities that they do not even possess. Consciousness creates images, forces you to worship them, worship exactly images, not people, it sucks you into this quagmire of existence, from where it will be very difficult for you to escape, And only if you are lucky. It is consciousness that needs some hierarchy, some elevation of one person over another. It is exactly consciousness that dictates to a person so that he would shift responsibility for his

spiritual development onto someone else. A very good example was shown in practice by Igor Mikhailovich himself, an example of how we should destroy images created by consciousness, when in the Unity video he said, “I’m an ordinary man, a simple masseur. What halos?! There is nothing except calluses on my hands.” And you know, this surprised my consciousness at that time, too. But now an understanding has already come that this was said so that human consciousness would not build images, so that it wouldn’t create broken crutches and false hopes in people. People should spiritually evolve themselves; not

feed consciousness with hopes, but develop in themselves the deepest feelings of true Love in the Eternal, Boundless World instead of searching for some temporary supports in illusory and finite three-dimensionality. Zh: Right. Once Igor Mikhailovich gave an important understanding: “Look at a person not by consciousness, not by image, not by clothes, and not by words. Learn to feel. The Spiritual World doesn’t lie. No matter who is speaking, what and how nicely he is saying it, but you feel how it is in reality. Approach your life in a responsible way.” IM: Absolutely right. A person’s stay in

a subway as an association with a person’s life in the three-dimensional world. While being in it, a person should not forget that the period of stay in the material world is a temporary phenomenon. The main thing is what you have enriched yourself with, how you have grown spiritually while being in the three-dimensional confined space where only guide signs serve as a reference point on the spiritual path. The choice remains with a person. Signs in various subway locations along a person’s route: HERE AND NOW ALLATRA SIGN MATTER IS SECONDARY SIMPLY LOVE NEW KNOWLEDGE IN THE REPORT

PRIMORDIAL ALLATRA PHYSICS THE TRUTH IS ONE FOR EVERYONE LIVE BY THE TRUTH OF THE SPIRITUAL WORLD ALLATRA Good begets Good! BOOK ALLATRA LOVE LIVES IN YOU EXIT BEYOND THE SYSTEM TRUE FREEDOM IS WITHIN YOU LIVE BY THE SPIRIT THIS IS SIMPLE Good is Here and Now TRUE HAPPINESS TO LOVE TO BE GRATEFUL TO LIVE BY THE SPIRIT SPIRITUAL WORLD IS REAL THREE-DIMENSIONAL WORLD IS AN ILLUSION DO NOT WAIT MOVE FORWARD BE HONEST AT LEAST WITH YOURSELF THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE CONSCIOUSNESS IS PART OF THE SYSTEM FREEDOM IS ATTAINED THROUGH LABOUR THOUGHT IS PART

OF THE MATERIAL WORLD GIVE UP DOUBTS Dear friends! You are using public transport. Let us manifest Humaneness, kind and attentive attitude to each other. Good begets Good! REPLACE YOUR MENTAL EVIL SLANDER WITH KIND WORDS; INSTEAD OF ENVY, BE SINCERELY HAPPY FOR ANOTHER PERSON’S SUCCESS. INSTEAD OF EMPTY EVIL GOSSIP, BETTER GO AND DO GOOD TO OTHER PEOPLE, SIMPLY, QUIETLY AND SELFLESSLY. THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY OUT WHO ARE YOU? A HUMAN IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST BODY, THOUGHTS, AND EMOTIONS HOW TO OVERCOME ONESELF EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE HOW PERSONALITY CAN BECOME FREE FROM CONSCIOUSNESS’ SLAVERY PERSONALITY’S LIFE

BEYOND THREE-DIMENSIONALITY HOW PERSONALITY LIVES BY THE SPIRITUAL WORLD AllatRa is a book that changes the world! For the first time, a picture of a human soul. What happens to a person after the death of his physical body? How to find an inner support and be steady in the face of troubles of the external world? How to control negative thoughts and emotions. Overcome yourself! download for free allatra. tv/en ALLATRA GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT SEVEN ALLATRA FOUNDATIONS THE VALUE OF LIFE is in THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE Only proper SELF-CONTROL and SPIRITUAL AND MORAL SELF-IMPROVEMENT will lead people to

UNITY, CREATION and attainment of SPIRITUAL RICHES. VALUE OF LIFE FREEDOM OF CHOICE SELF-CONTROL SPIRITUAL AND MORAL SELF-IMPROVEMENT UNITY CREATION SPIRITUAL RICHES YOU YOURSELF CHOOSE TO LIVE OR TO EXIST T: Igor Mikhailovich, in order to facilitate precisely a person’s understanding of himself, understanding of his states: how does consciousness perceive itself, and how does Personality perceive itself? IM: Human consciousness always perceives itself exactly as a limited self, as something isolated. How does a person perceive himself: I? Me, mine, and that’s it. And it is sort of encapsulated and closed. Whereas, when Personality perceives itself, it perceives itself

as boundlessness and a part of the whole. This is also an interesting point. T: Yet, a person does want to be spiritual, he strives for that. IM: Indeed, every person strives for the Spiritual World. It’s an inner aspiration. But most often, consciousness blocks, erases, gives false guidance and paths. Thus it proves to Personality that the Spiritual World doesn’t exist. It covers the forest in front of a person’s eyes with a straw. It diverts the entire attention, “Look! Focus on the straw, observe the straw.” And behind this straw, when you hold it in front of your

face and fix your eyes only on it, you do not see the forest which is around you. That is how consciousness works. With the illusion of its three-dimensional existence, it covers the boundlessness and versatility of the infinite God’s World. T: Yet, how to shift the focus of attention? How to wake up from this illusion? IM: Observe consciousness, and you will understand that you are not consciousness. Invest the power of attention in that place where it is warm, nice, and joyful. Seek this joy inside; after all, it is there. And the constant source of this joy

in a human being, in the human energy structure, is nothing other than the Soul. This is like standing in the cold in front of a wide-open door into a room where it is very warm. You feel this warmth coming from inside the room, it is joyful and cheerful in that room, there is a bright light, and it’s very warm. While you are in the darkness and in the cold. It’s impossible to confuse. T: You will get there anyway. IM: If you want to. T: So, Personality has only spiritual experience and practice. Owing to its unique

perception, it is able to understand the primordial truth globally, to distinguish the good from the bad, and to make a choice. This considerably differs from the artificial work of consciousness, from incessant analysis coming from the mind, when consciousness makes a mountain out of a molehill. IM: It is human consciousness that constantly analyzes. It takes a molehill and turns it into a mountain, Approaching it from different sides. But at the same time, it studies the mountain by touch while blindfolded. Personality doesn’t act this way. Personality has a holistic perception. It just knows what a mountain is,

and it knows what a molehill is. It’s a voluminous knowledge, but it is unattainable for consciousness. And here’s a simple phenomenon, it is described by very many people in human history, by those who attained this knowledge: A person knows, but has great difficulty in expressing all this in words. Why? Because consciousness refuses even to shape this Knowledge into an elementary set of words which a person possesses. There is a little nuance: consciousness will never perceive a human being as Personality. It will always resist and will always burden you. Personality is perception through feelings, and it

is absolutely different from perception of itself by consciousness. When a person perceives himself from the perspective of Personality, that is, when he becomes a free Personality, the first thing he does is he stops lying to himself And inventing all sorts of stories. He doesn’t play with consciousness. T: Igor Mikhailovich, there is also such a frequently encountered question: what is true unity, and what is unification in human society? Once you said that what people call unification in the modern world is basically reconciliation. IM: People often talk about the need to unite and so on. But true

unity in this world is impossible without spiritual development. Why? Because consciousness divides. The first thing it does is that it encapsulates a person and singles him out for himself. All this happens at the level of consciousness, of Personality’s perception of what consciousness tells it, namely, “You are alone. You, you, and you.” And unification implies unification of a community of interests, let’s say, of a certain circle of people, but no more. While true unity may take place only at the spiritual level. When Personality achieves perception of the Spiritual World, it already feels people of the same

kind who perceive That World. And that’s where unification takes place. Why? Because Personality needs nothing in this world. It has no material interests. While consciousness always has plenty of them. So, whatever way we look at this, and no matter what anyone says, there are always interests. Let’s take populists, okay? A person sort of aspires to see all people living happily, tells everybody about this, that he strives for that. He fights for their rights. But in actual fact, what does he think about, what does he care about, and what does he fight for? Here, several factors

come into play: either personal profit or self-popularization. He just wants others to think well of him, to admire him. In other words, it is trite satisfaction of egoism, nothing else but that. Isn’t it so? It is. Does Personality need this? No, it doesn’t. Why? Because in this world, we don’t even know… Well, frankly speaking, in all honesty, if you live in a nine-storey house, you hardly know all the neighbours in your house. While Personality perceives everyone in infinity, When it is there. And here’s exactly the paradox: there are no strangers there, everyone there is close

ones, there is family. Everything there is near and dear. Zh: Ye-eah. T: So, when the real feeling begins, there begins… Zh: …such grace… T: …yes, tremendous God’s power. IM: Certainly, grace begins when feelings come, precisely perception through feelings. While consciousness always divides and separates people. It endows somebody with what he doesn’t actually have. Why? Again, it’s a struggle for power, for domination. Here, as a matter of fact, hatred is generated. Naturally, since there is hatred, it means there is rejection, judgement, or envy. Personality doesn’t possess qualities of either envy or judgement, or anything. Again, they

say that God cannot judge. He either perceives or doesn’t perceive. Black and white. Acceptable or unacceptable. Alive or dead. Everything is simple. T: Igor Mikhailovich, there is also a question regarding religions. For instance, consciousness presents to a large number of people that unification in the lower strata is possible only when all religions unite at the level of the upper strata. Is this possible? IM: The thing is that we already discussed it: unification of religions is actually impossible. Everything that prevails in religions is not Spirit, it is consciousness, first and foremost — that which controls all

religions. Why? No matter how paradoxical this might be, A religion is an organization. Meanwhile, organizations defend their personal interests, a fight for power actually takes place. Those who fight for power are ready to unite with anyone if the latter submits to them, and everyone thinks this way. In fact, this is impossible. It’s a different matter whether unification of people in service to the Lord, true service to the Spiritual World, is possible. It is necessary, not just possible. It’s an issue of survival of humankind. Whether it is needed or not, this should not be even discussed.

But is it possible or impossible? Of course, it is possible. But that’s the choice of people. Are they able to overcome satan in themselves, to get away from inner filth, from slander, and to embark on the spiritual path, on the path of Truth? The system, naturally, doesn’t want that. But human Personalities, human souls — they do want this. Is this possible? It is possible, if they want it. But religions — no, they cannot. Similarly, can all businesses in the world unite? Well, if some dictator comes and takes the entire business for himself — of course,

they will unite. Same with religions. T: As practice shows, people’s unification in true service to the Spiritual World is already taking place. And that enormous wave of practical interest of people from various countries, the wave of interest in the Knowledge Presented through the book AllatRa and through the videos with your participation, the wave that is now rolling across the world is exactly a сonfirmation of that. Moreover, it’s not just people of different nationalities and different social statuses who find points of contact based on the universal Grain of Truth, but also monks and priests of various

religions and denominations — people who once chose for themselves the path of true service to God. IM: The Knowledge given in that very book AllatRa unites people. Indeed, as of today, very many not only clergymen, but also monks from various religions, Secretly from their administration, no matter how paradoxical this is, are practising and learning, and a lot of them have achieved good results. However, being in the system, in an organisation, they cannot declare this openly. In fact, what’s the difference which path you follow towards God? The main thing is for you to get there. As

for spiritually developed people… After all, not everyone joins religious organizations just in order to satisfy their laziness and megalomania. As a matter of fact, a lot of people go there to seek God, they are urged exactly by the Spiritual component. And, seeing the Truth, no matter where they see it and what they see it in, they cling to it. Therefore today, indeed, a huge movement, so far hidden, but it is only hidden for the time being, is already starting across the world among religious ministers and monks who work on studying themselves by means of the

very knowledge given in the book AllatRa. Thank God, there are already many people with whom it is possible to talk without opening your mouth, which is very valuable. T: In the language of the deepest feelings, Which is understandable without words. IM: Right. But in the past, there was one language, and it was easier. This is confirmed, again, by those very signs. Like we talked about Allat or that very AllatRa sign. T: Yes, these are actually the most ancient signs which are found all over the world, on nearly all the continents. IM: This indicates that there

was a common language, and people understood each other, they knew. Ultimately, when people are engaged in spiritual development, they come to the point when they begin to understand each other in that single language Thanks to which it is possible to communicate with the Spiritual World. There is no other language. It’s the language of feelings, a sincere one. So it’s not the language which the system or our consciousness speaks that is important. The inner language is much more important. But again, in order to communicate in that language, it is, first of all, necessary to learn to

communicate with the Spiritual World. T: Igor Mikhailovich, many people express their desire to be in a spiritual community, to develop together with like-minded people. IM: It is natural that all people Want to be in a spiritually developed community, among those people who live by the spiritual. But if you want to be in such a community, work on yourself first. Become a spiritually free person. Then the community will gradually change as well. Because the power will either reject satan’s servants or tear a human soul out of his nasty paws. It turns out, you are like a

magnet: you will either attract the like or push away the opposite. But your community will form the way it should be if you, on your part, work on yourself. T: People who only begin to study themselves And to perceive through the deepest feelings also note the resistance of consciousness, when at a certain point in time, imperceptibly, a shift from perception through the deepest feelings to consciousness occurs. IM: A person loses perception through feelings and switches to consciousness when his bridge is narrow. And these fluctuations and drawing of attention occur when he endows something mortal with

value. Well, it doesn’t matter what we do, but what can be more important than Life, more important than God? What is so important that Ahriman, or the devil, has that is more important than what God has, than being with God?! Nothing! You see, we are in three-dimensionality, it is the devil’s world. Consciousness is the devil’s tool. But our Soul is a door to the Spiritual World, while Personality is the light which emanates through this door. And so we, being this light that radiates through the Soul, what can the darkness possibly offer us that we would,

like that light, close the door, reject our True essence, reject God, God’s world, And would go wandering around in the dark? Just explain it to me! Nothing. Different colours? But they are illusory. What else? Nothing at all. Therefore, everything can be done without breaking this connection with the Spiritual World. Not can be, but this must be done. What can be more important? T: One of the main questions of those who made a decision to follow the spiritual path Is how to really Live during the day, how to Live as Personality? IM: Indeed, many people ask:

how to Live as Personality during the day rather than by consciousness? Everything is simple. Abide in Spirit. Be inseparable from Spirit. And you will always Live as Personality and with the Spiritual World. Or to put it simply, you will Live. Just Live. Abide in Spirit Be inseparable from Spirit IM: People who try to understand with consciousness, or rather to study through consciousness how consciousness works, run into the difficulty of studying the brain, while consciousness is as if hidden in this brain. But the brain, as we already said, is a material structure, while consciousness is not

matter as such. T: Well, yes, and it turns out that the study doesn’t go beyond understanding of three-dimensionality and visible matter. Some kind of stupor just arises, stupor from consciousness. There are limits, and science is afraid to cross over this rubicon. Nowadays, more and more researchers come to an understanding that consciousness is non-material, and it is not in the brain. But the very word “non-material” today sounds like a stigma of the word “unscientific”. That is why scientists are afraid of crossing this line, beyond which, as they believe, metaphysics and the supernatural begin. IM: For a

better understanding, in the modern world, we should perhaps turn to quantum mechanics. As of today, it’s the only field That at least somehow explains that there is something supernatural, I would put it this way. Unfortunately, science has not yet come to an understanding that there’s something beyond matter. But in any case, quantum mechanics already comes close and gives an experimentally confirmed explanation of the fact that there is something beyond the limits of the physics we are accustomed to. If we speak of quantum mechanics, then perhaps, we should start a little bit with the history of

quantum mechanics: what quantum mechanics is, how it emerged, And what difficulties it faced. Basically, people can learn from any textbook how it emerged; as of today, much is written there about it. While here, I would like to touch upon those points which are at least somewhat known to people nowadays, precisely that which borders understanding and lack of understanding. Speaking of quantum mechanics, we should emphasize that all matter is subject to the laws of quantum mechanics, starting with galaxies and ending with a teardrop on a baby’s cheek, because all matter is made up of tiny particles.

If we delve deeper into the world of matter, Delve beyond the atomic, then the subatomic limit, we will see that there are tiny particles. We already talked about this more than once, that all matter is composed of tiny particles, practically indivisible ones as it is believed nowadays, although they are actually divisible. We will try to explain this a little bit. These particles form every atom in this world. The laws governing these particles at the quantum level radically differ from those laws which people are accustomed to in their everyday life. Meaning, a stone that is thrown

up falls down, and so on. Well, and all kinds of interactions that take place at the micro-level have been more or less studied. Let’s take, for instance, quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement as such implies that two particles may get entangled with each other if they are located close to one another. Thus, appearing at the same time and being close to each other, they have a certain correlation with one another. In such a case, their properties become interrelated. Meaning, if these particles are separated and sent, for example, to different corners of the Universe, These particles will still

remain inseparably connected, and they will continue interacting with each other, without loss of time at that. There will be no energy correlations between them, I mean those that could be noticed. T: Meaning, correlations that could be recorded. IM: Yes. Nevertheless, they will still be connected with each other, and their spins, meaning their rotations, will remain different from one another. And if, for example, a spin of one particle rotates to the left, the spin of the other one will rotate to the right. If we change the spin, meaning, the rotation of one particle, This will be

immediately automatically reflected on the other particle, no matter at what distance they are located from each other. Moreover, it will happen instantaneously, without loss of time, despite enormous distances between them, which violates all the laws that modern physics operates with. That is why, for example, Albert Einstein called such a correlation between entangled particles supernatural, and certainly, he immediately began to deny it. However, a Dutch physicist Niels Bohr, along with like-minded colleagues, on the contrary, asserted that this wonderful interconnection did exist. Even though, in spite of this assertion, he was unable to prove the existence of

such interconnection experimentally. This was more of a theoretical development. But then again, even theoretically, Bohr explained this correlation in a very creative way, using the example of two rotating wheels. Well, in order to make it more clear, let us clarify his example. Let’s take, for instance, two wheels that are painted with stripes of different colours, red and blue, with a fixed arrow. Bohr explained that if these wheels were taken to opposite ends of the Universe and spun, If upon stopping the wheels, a red colour comes up on one of them, then the blue will immediately

come up on the other one. Naturally, such declarations by Bohr about this kind of instantaneous correlation between entangled particles ruined the theory which had brought so much fame to Einstein. To which the latter reacted quite painfully. And to refute Bohr’s theory, he put forward his own, completely material theory of an alleged interconnection between entangled particles, which eliminated any kind of magic. Einstein explained their correlation by means of a pair of gloves, giving the most commonplace simple example. He explained that if we go and place gloves into two small boxes, for example, or two little drawers.

We don’t know which glove is in which box. We keep one box, and we send the other one, for example, to the other side of the world. When we open the box, we see that we have, for instance, the right glove. This automatically means that the left glove will be in the other box which We have sent to the other side of the world. Well, he explained this well enough. But he forgot to mention that quantum physics also implies the presence of another fact: that glove which will be far from us must also be turned

inside out, not only be the left one, but also be inside out. And if we take the one that we have and start turning it inside out, then at the same time the other glove, the one on the other side of the world, will also begin to turn inside out. But this would ruin The carefully designed material model of Einstein himself, which he built and by which he explained everything so easily, therefore he kept quiet about it. T: Yes, pridefulness still lives in people. IM: This widely promoted explanation that he gave basically completely satisfied the

community of people who were interested in physics and physicists who agreed with him. But Einstein’s glove theory, which only pointed out the fact that entangled particles are initially different and that’s all, didn’t satisfy true physicists, since it didn’t explain the particles’ correlation, which, strictly speaking, Einstein and his group deliberately kept quiet about because they couldn’t rebuff all of that either. T: They kept quiet, which means they knew something. IM: Theoretically, they certainly understood that it is so, but this would have again suggested that there exists some other correlation, and this would have called Einstein’s words

into question. Meanwhile, having admitted that this correlation exists, this would have called into question his theory which was put forward, so to say, in contrast to the theory of aether. Since something like that exists, hence there is aether as well. Since there is aether, this means free energy exists too, and so Tesla was right. But if Tesla was right, then people would come up with a question: why do we, pardon me, buy hydrocarbons instead of getting electricity for free, which there is plenty around? Well, therefore, this topic was closed for many years. However, this didn’t

calm down the inquisitive minds of other researchers who continued making attempts to rebuff that very Einstein who had said that as long as there is no experimental evidence of such a correlation, Such correlation doesn’t exist; it exists only in imagination of those who assert that — Einstein hinted at Bohr. Even after Einstein’s death, his followers continued to assert that as long as there is no experiment, it’s impossible to prove this. The most interesting thing is that in due time there appeared an Irish physicist John Bell who, being by and large a theoretical physicist, by means

of profound mathematical analysis managed to prove a possibility of getting Experimental evidence as such. Thus, by constructing a machine that would create many pairs of entangled particles, it was possible to prove this interconnection. And that was no longer philosophy, but a real experiment which could be carried out, and thus an end could be put to this philosophical dispute once and for all. This Irish physicist was little-known, but his book on this subject was published. It so happened that a postgraduate student by the name of John Clauser, while trying to look into quantum mechanics, accidentally came

across the works by John Bell. He decided to build such a machine and to understand, first of all, for himself whether there is an interconnection or not, and what quantum mechanics is — real science or fiction, a pseudo-science. He built such a machine and experimentally proved that Bohr had been completely right while Einstein had been mistaken: a supernatural correlation between two entangled particles really exists. Well, despite his discovery, John Clauser, basically just like many other modern physicists who study quantum mechanics, has still failed to understand what kind of a correlation that is, And why entangled

particles, regardless of distances at which they are dispersed, instantaneously react to changes in one or another particle, meaning, with no loss of time. T: Yes, indeed, an answer to this question, which scientists have been trying to answer for almost a hundred years already, would certainly be a serious breakthrough for modern physics. Nowadays in science, it is as the academician Landau, who in his time was Niels Bohr’s student, used to say with a touch of humour that, “Generally speaking, everything is clear, But tricky questions are possible, which only Bohr can answer.” IM: And right here we

proceed to the most interesting part. As a matter of fact, everything is simple, even very simple. For example, in the spring of 2015, the PRIMORDIAL ALLATRA PHYSICS report was released by ALLATRA IPM. In the form of a theory, this report clarified the structure of the Universe from the very first building blocks of the world structure, which in the report are actually called Po particles, up to the ezoosmic grid That determines space of the entire Universe and consists of cells. These cells consist of the so-called ezoosmic membranes. Basically, those of our viewers who are interested in

familiarising themselves with the report in more detail will be able to do this easily, since it is freely available on the Internet; they will be able to figure out on their own what Po particles are, what ezoosmic membranes are, and everything else. Generally speaking, people will be able to figure it out after reading it on the Internet. Yet, going back to quantum mechanics, I will just briefly say what is related to the report: it is the fact that all these supernatural correlations between entangled particles are precisely determined by the function of the ezoosmic membrane. This

very membrane actually separates the visible world from the invisible one, meaning, it separates and connects lower dimensions with higher ones, it separates time from timelessness and infinity from a point. T: So, an understanding of what the ezoosmic membrane is and how it functions is basically the key that opens a door to a completely new era for science. IM: As of today, thank God, while talking to outstanding physicists of our times, I’m happy with the fact that they already understand that this material world is located in six dimensions. This is an important point. Why? Because indeed,

the entire material world is located in six dimensions. Our habitual everyday life is the third dimension. But everything that we can imagine with our consciousness Is contained only within six-dimensionality. Consciousness and all the magic that takes place, it exactly takes place at the level of the sixth dimension. In the seventh dimension, this no longer exists, although the world continues to be material. And here it is interesting, we already talked about this more than once, but I think it is worth repeating again that indeed, the entire material world consists of 72 dimensions. But precisely the material

world, where the power of the system is prevalent, let’s say, after all, the system considers itself and sets itself against God, It is limited to six dimensions. As for the rest of the dimensions, they actually restrain and control the system's power so that it doesn't go beyond the limits of the six dimensions. Let’s say, like in any good laboratory, there exist not one, but many systems that ensure prevention and safe performance… Well, I’m not saying that humankind is an experiment, not at all. Humankind is a chance, it is Life, generation of Life. While generation of

life always occurs under certain extreme conditions, and again, everything begins with a struggle or opposition. T: So, it’s important to understand that the system functions only up to the sixth dimension. While in the seventh dimension, it doesn’t rule. As for the other 66 dimensions… IM: The other 66 dimensions are superstructures that control those several dimensions in which the system itself exists. And this entire control is maintained through the ezoosmic membrane; it’s an absolute control, it is those 66 dimensions which are located above the six. For understanding, I would also like to clarify that in the

ezoosmic membrane itself, there is no concept of time. In the higher dimensions close to the Spiritual World, just like in the Spiritual World itself, there is no concept of time at all. There, it is always now. Whereas in the three-dimensional world, in our habitual dimension, there is no concept of now. While I’ve been articulating the word now, all of us, both myself and those who are participating in this conversation with me, as well as our viewers, Have covered an enormous distance in space. I mean, we as material objects, through the material world, through these ezoosmic

membranes, through these cells across the ezoosmic grid, we have covered a tremendous distance. And we don’t have such numbers to count how many cells every particle of our body and simultaneously every Po particle of our consciousness has passed through. This is also worth thinking about. Meanwhile, in the higher dimensions, And especially in the Spiritual World, beyond the ezoosmic grid, nothing like that exists; there, it is always now. Only here, we have a concept of distance. There it is relative, there it is boundless. But at the same time, you can always be where you are and

where you are needed. Human consciousness will not understand this because other laws operate There, and humanity is yet to perceive at least the initial basics of these laws. T: Indeed, while exploring yourself, You come to know the true World, the real World — the Spiritual World, and not the computer simulation of this hologram of the three-dimensional world, created by consciousness. IM: Right. I’d like to say that in the report, basically, nothing new for humanity is described. Everything new is the well-forgotten old. Everything that is described in the PRIMORDIAL ALLATRA PHYSICS report was known to humanity

as far back as 12 thousand years ago. As confirmation of this, I can say that tablets have been preserved until today, In which complex interactions of elementary particles such as electrons, protons, neutrons, and so on are depicted. Moreover, they are depicted precisely as it is described in the report. And in confirmation that it’s not an empty theory, those who are interested should actually familiarize themselves with the report and not rush into listening to their consciousness which will immediately begin to criticise, but should look into it a little bit. This is worth the time spent. T:

12 thousand years ago is quite an impressive period of time. IM: Many people may counter, “How can it be 12 thousand years ago? After all, according to modern doctrines, humanity only emerged approximately 10 to 12 thousand years ago.” But I would like to say that the world is much more ancient and complex than modern scientists recount to present-day humanity. Basically, whoever is interested will look into these issues on their own and will read the report. Modern science, I’m not asserting that it’s in an embryonic state in terms of its development, of course not, but the

fact that it is at the intrauterine development stage — that’s for sure. Only after the birth of science beyond the three-dimensional world, its true full-scale development will begin, if, certainly, by that time humanity doesn’t destroy itself because of excessive pridefulness and spiritual impoverishment imposed on Personality by the system by means of its enslaving tool — consciousness. Well, this is already the choice of people themselves. T: Right. Igor Mikhailovich, this knowledge which relates to physics, is it given for understanding of the Spiritual World? IM: I wouldn't say that the very knowledge which deals with physics, other

sciences, or something else, Is given for understanding of the Spiritual World. No. It only brings a person closer to understanding that there is something else, something different. That there is something behind this, just like that very quantum mechanics. It gives understanding that the world is not limited only to three-dimensionality. And those laws which we are accustomed to live by, I mean physical laws, these are just a manifested part that has been studied within this three-dimensionality. But who has studied it? Again, consciousness, By means of some devices located in this three-dimensionality. Yet, it’s impossible to study

higher dimensions, at least the fifth or the sixth dimension, by means of any device. Why? Because there are no such devices. They must be located there. For better understanding of this issue, perhaps, I will explain. Let’s say, you are sitting on the first floor of a multi-storey building in a tightly locked-up room and holding a mirror in your hand. Everything that you can see is a reflection of yourself or of something else, for instance, walls located in this room. But in this mirror, you cannot see what is located on the floor above. I mean, this

is the entire set of tools a person can operate with, while he is on this floor, inside this room. T: Unfortunately, many people underestimate the role of physics. IM: As long as a person is in this world, he needs to eat. It's common sense, people need clothes, they need food. While that physics which was spoken about and which was mentioned in the report released at ALLATRA IPM, Upon its development, it provides a possibility not to ruin nature. It enables a person to allocate more time to the Spiritual World and not to worry about his daily

bread. Why? Because that physics actually brings you to an understanding, knowledge, and possibility of operating with the original bricks that will create atoms which will create molecules, and out of which it will be easy to produce everything you need, from, excuse me, shoes to the daily bread. You see, basically, from a house to a car. And a person doesn’t need to spend a lot of time on work or something else. However, this is unacceptable in the present-day world, absolutely unacceptable. Why? Because a human must be kept under control and subordinated — the system stereotypically imposes

all this. It always creates some people, let’s say, super-responsible ones who assume the function of controlling other people for the sake of those same people: they know better, can do it better, and provide for other people’s lives. In such a case, everyone must work and earn money. While money is like a system of binding a person to this material life. If you don’t have money, you have no funds to pay for electricity or gas. It will be cold and dark in your premises. But again, even to acquire some kind of space to live in —

you need money. To go outside, you have to get dressed — you need money. To avoid dying of hunger — you need money. Here’s the answer for you. Hence, what? Hence, you have to go and earn. You get into certain conditions of existence. That’s the way the whole society is arranged. And certain rules of the game are formed. What is work, rabota in Russian? Do you know the root of this word? T: Slave, rab in Russian. IM: Here’s the answer. So, a person is bound, and he has to coexist with other people in society and

to live according to certain rules which exclude everything that is called spiritual. The most that you will be given is religion or science. Well, entertain or distract yourself. Here’s the answer. Everything is very simple. But when a person gains, for example, an opportunity to acquire everything he needs without leaving his room, or to travel anywhere without spending anything, including time, he doesn’t need funds. How to control such a person? If a person with such capabilities is under the control of consciousness — that is scary. But again, this Knowledge as such… consciousness is against this Knowledge

coming into the world. But as I’m explaining: with the development of this Knowledge, let’s take, for instance, that very quantum mechanics, people will learn what supernatural correlation is. Since there is a supernatural correlation, it means there is also another World — the World beyond the boundary of this world. Hence, there is good and bad. People begin to realise — this is like that Fruit of knowing good and evil, you see? In other words, if according to the biblical legend, people lived and knew only good, then having taken a bite of this fruit, they learned what

evil is. And now, this Knowledge is like dewdrops that help seekers, again, only seekers, to learn that not only evil exists, but there is also good. That there is not just death, but there is also Life. There is not only the devil, but there is also God. And that a human is not limited by this world in his existence. T: …as Personality. IM: As Personality, of course, first and foremost, and not as a slave of the system. If a person is far from the Spiritual World, he communicates with the system, I would even say, he’s

just a slave of the system. Only after getting to know himself as Personality will a person be able to learn to control his consciousness from the position of the Spiritual observer, from the position of Personality. And only then will he stop being a slave of consciousness, As part of the system, in other words, speaking the language of religion, he will stop being a slave of the devil. T: He will stop serving the system and will become a free Personality. IM: Yes. For Personality, there are no barriers in knowing the Truth. For Personality, there are no

barriers in knowing the Truth T: This is very interesting and important information. You understand how stereotypically people’s consciousness will react to all this. Because, as a rule, what does consciousness do? It reacts stereotypically with a squall of criticism And emotional indignation to everything that is new to it, that is disadvantageous to consciousness itself, so that its power over a person is not ruined. Moreover, it is very aggressive towards everything Spiritual. In fact, even hearing this Knowledge, consciousness will attack people. IM: Consciousness always criticizes, especially if something is related to the true Knowledge. If consciousness hears

anything about what is truly Spiritual, it always rears up. T: Well, yes, if we look from the perspective of consciousness, what can it scream about, its Ego-self, “Satan forbid that consciousness loses control over Personality!” You cannot say “God forbid” because it doesn’t apply to the system. After all, speaking the language of religion, it belongs to satan, meaning, to what is mortal. IM: Right. Why? Because it’s incomprehensible for consciousness, it will never be able to understand it. And what I’m talking about now will simply cause a storm or rejection in many people’s consciousness, up to the

point that there is a desire to turn off the video. But at the same time, since there is a mention of what is beyond the verge of consciousness’ understanding, The system will force many people to listen again and again, even if they are controlled by consciousness. Why? Because the system itself is always interested in learning something new so as to gain some kind of power. It always strives to become like God, that’s why it is incessantly self-developing. But it only thinks so, I mean the system, that at some point it will be able to develop

itself in some way, that it will become equal. T: But everything is limited in the system. IM: Certainly, everything is limited in the system. Yet, I’ll repeat once again: Even what I’m talking about now can evoke a whole storm of indignation and revolt in the consciousness of many people who are actually enslaved by the system now. This has to be understood. Even people, being far from what I’m talking about, might subject my words to criticism, to put it mildly. Even though this seemingly doesn’t concern them, they have listened to it accidentally. But at the same

time, this can give rise to a whole squall of indignation in them. But why? If they stop and think: Who in them is indignant, and why? If they believe that this doesn’t interest them, that they are independent, they understand and know everything, then why are they so outraged at this? Why are they not outraged at other things that happen in this world? Why are they not outraged at the fact that people kill and deceive each other? Why are they not outraged at the presence of evil in this world? A simple question. But when you talk

about what is good — that’s it, it means “you benefit from this.” Yet, who talks about this in people’s consciousness? Do they themselves think about this, or does the system tell them about it? Again, banal stereotypical mindsets from the system. Everything boils down to what? Back to this narrow understanding of various things. And right away, parallels with something are drawn. T: Yes, it turns out that the system has extracted a fragment from a conversation and found something more or less similar in its memory. And it doesn’t matter that it’s different by content. The main thing

for the system is to quickly substitute and present something as a result. And since the system is the “House of Lies”, as the ancients used to say, it doesn’t matter to it that the result is false and substituted. In a word, artificial intelligence strives to be crafty. It’s good if an operator is clever, uncovers these mistakes in his computer right away, and figures out himself what is what. But as a rule, people don’t really notice when the system squares the circle — a banal perception of the world through the patterns of consciousness. IM: Trite stereotypical

thinking. T: Yes, the system itself enslaves, therefore a person in whom consciousness predominates sees precisely enslavers in all his competitors. You are just surprised when you meet some people who don’t even understand what they say, who dictates inside them, how they react to that very book AllatRa, to the ALLATRA Movement, to that good which people implement in different countries of the world. And you understand how consciousness emits such indignation out of nothing, how scared it is of losing power over such a person. IM: But it is consciousness that is indignant. Again, it is indignant in

whom? In those very slaves of the system. The system is deceitful, it always lies. And, first of all, it deceives a person himself — Personality. It simply exploits him. But the trouble is that people don’t understand that they are not who they consider themselves to be. It’s not them. Consciousness is a tool, but it’s not a human being. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive T: Just now, Igor Mikhailovich, you’ve said That consciousness is a tool, and I’ve recalled how one fellow, discoursing about the Knowledge, or more precisely his consciousness came up with another

extreme, “Since consciousness hinders me, since it deceives me this way — that’s it, I won’t develop it.” IM: Well, and thus to equate his consciousness to that of a monkey. Meaning, to have poorly-developed consciousness, be disoriented in the modern world, and do what others order you. To be feeble-minded, so to say. This is a dream of many managers: To have a dumb, uncomprehending, and unconscious society. Consciousness is a tool, first and foremost. For example, if I give you a blunt knife and ask you to peel potatoes, will it be convenient for you to peel with

it? No, you need a sharp knife. Any tool has to be calibrated to the utmost, intact and well-maintained. While consciousness is a tool, it has to be well-developed. The broader your horizons are, the more you comprehend, the more is embedded in you for understanding this very three-dimensionality. The question is in something else: who controls your consciousness? Clearly, the system will always control it, consciousness is its component. But again, secondary consciousness, or new consciousness, is difficult to control, but it is controllable. Yet, it can easily be ignored if necessary. Whereas primary consciousness is easily trainable. If

you evolve as Personality, a developed and well-trained consciousness is only helpful, it’s not detrimental. This doesn’t mean that it will be more cunning and more sophisticated. Believe me, no matter how much you develop your consciousness, it will be unable to develop to the level To which the system itself has developed. It’s just a part of this system. While the system that has experience, let’s say, of billions of years has seen all sorts of things. That’s why a well-developed consciousness facilitates understanding of this world and improves communication with other people. Generally speaking, if you are not

lazy, it is only helpful. T: Yes. It was hard when you didn’t know about this. Whereas now, there is such a situation when Knowledge is available, but many people don’t have practical experience of working on themselves yet, therefore, there is no real transformation Of themselves and society. IM: There is an interesting point here — transformation of society. Everybody aspires to transform society. However, society will transform only when people start transforming themselves. That’s an essential point. You shouldn’t aspire to change society without having changed yourself. T: Yes, this is so. However, people seem to lack understanding

of the meaning of life. The system imposes some values, that very career or family, or some search for pleasures in the external, and suggests to people that they should believe that this is actually life, That this is what your destiny and your life goal is, that you came to this world for this very purpose. IM: As a matter of fact, in our everyday, let’s say, three-dimensional life, a family, an interaction in society, or that very career — all this is actually a component of human life. Another thing is how to approach this and from which

side to look at it. Human life is too short. And a person must have time for everything: to start a family and support it, which at the same time implies that he should make a career, better if it’s a decent career so as to ensure good income — All this is necessary. It is simply necessary for survival under present-day conditions. The question is what predominates in a person, what is the main goal of his existence and the purpose of his life. Consciousness begins to tell us that the purpose of our life is propagation. But in

this case, how do we differ from any animal? After all, if we look, the main goal and task of any animal is propagation. Well, you have propagated, continued your family line, but what is the point in this for you personally? Why do people in their old age boast that they have done a lot in their life, Job plus family, grandchildren, and all the rest, but there is sadness in their eyes? Because everyone understands that he hasn’t had time to do the main thing. Life is very short; we already spoke about this repeatedly both in the

videos and in general, that life flows by very fast, like one instant. In fact, any time interval which you would set for yourself will pass very quickly: a week, a year. It is such a fleeting substance. The meaning of human life is exactly to join the Spiritual World. This may provoke some sort of indignation in many people. But again, and here’s a nuance, indignation in what? In consciousness. Why, at the word God, spirituality, or something else, does consciousness evoke inner indignation in the overwhelming majority of people? Even, no matter how hurtful it is, in clergymen.

As long as he wears vestments and conducts some service, he is well-disposed, he tells everyone about God. But when he remains one-on-one with God, so to say, here, even a thought or something else, all this nearly twitches him. All this is going on inside: Inside not in the spiritual aspect, but in consciousness, in emotions, in everything else because consciousness of any human is predisposed against everything spiritual by almost 99%. It’s a fact, and it’s true. Yet, we have certain, let’s say, customs, some rules of the game in society as a whole, that we have religions,

we should treat them with respect; there is God, we should treat Him with respect; we should respect other people’s choices and other people’s faith. Thank God, such things do exist. But it is, again, due to certain reasons which we won’t discuss today, we won’t raise these issues because in some people, again, in their consciousness, it provokes nothing but aggression. Why does this happen? Because I’m saying once again, any person’s consciousness is predisposed against everything spiritual. This is its function; we should understand, know, and accept this basically as a natural phenomenon. In any religion, this was

mentioned many times by those people who were indeed going to God. They didn’t play around and didn’t treat God as sort of an executor of their desires, like “Lord, give me this or give me that… If you give it to me, you are a good God, and I believe in you.” T: Yes, there are a lot of stereotypical passions in consciousness, by means of which consciousness actually enslaves a person in such… thoughts-states, in the states like “I want” or “I don’t have enough”, or a state of fighting for power, for domination of one’s own opinion

only. IM: The notion of power is very important. For instance, consciousness tells many people, “You don’t fight for power, after all. What power do you have? You have such a job, you don’t aspire, don’t make a career. On the contrary, you avoid and move away from power. You are not interested in power.” This person considers himself to be such, or rather his consciousness tells him that he is so good and doesn’t seek power, but at the same time, dictatorship begins: in the family, towards his children, towards his other half, or among friends. In fact, a

fight for power is constantly going on. Power doesn’t mean to rule over nations or to manage some organisation, or something else. Here, by the word power we mean suppression of one material object by another one or an attempt to subordinate another person to oneself. And this takes place constantly and everywhere. T: This is a very interesting point, that if the dictatorship of consciousness predominates in people… IM: …they can unite, again, by interests. But it would be wonderful if people really started living at least by the laws of Conscience and Honour. So that they would unite

at least on such a basis that they would stop quarrelling, fighting, killing each other, and doing evil to one another. This is already a victory, a great victory over the system, over its directives. Is that possible? It is quite possible. Just as we said, to build a good, happy world in which a person can attain spiritual liberation. To create conditions for that. Is this within people’s power? It is. Can this be done? It must be done. It would be wonderful If true freedom was established in the entire world without any evil and without contradictions. And

the first thing everything begins with is honesty, honesty towards oneself. T: Yes, because in fact, this is merely work on oneself, and you should do everything within your power to create such conditions in society. IM: It’s impossible to force people, it is people’s choice, it is people’s freedom. Even if the entire world, just note, all people all over the world become, let’s say, free and try to influence one person who wants to become a subpersonality, He will become a subpersonality anyway. Why? Because it’s the freedom of his choice. That's where true democracy is, because everyone

chooses whatever they strive for. Any Personality aspires; this is such a natural instinct of self-preservation. Personality feels that the Boundless World — the Spiritual World does exist, and it feels powers and all manifestations. While consciousness blocks it, consciousness prevents people from understanding this. But again, who prevents a person From investing the power of his attention in his spiritual development or in material mortal things? Nobody. Only he himself chooses. The freedom of choice. While the fact that the system distracts, well, it’s the right of a person as Personality: to look or not to look at these

actors of his consciousness. The final battle of a human lasts from birth until death. A person will reap the outcome of the battle, of this Armageddon, after his heart stops beating. This is true. The point here exactly is that as long as your body is living and your heart is beating — you must begin to Live. After your heart stops beating, you already reap the result. Afterwards it’s already impossible to correct anything. No one will help you with prayers, and no one will save you. That’s true. T: Yes, there is also another point to realize.

In general, can humanity defeat the system as an enemy on the global scale, in the sense of categories from consciousness, if, for example, all people on the planet unite? IM: Humanity cannot defeat the system because the entire system goes far beyond humanity within the framework of which we understand it, let’s just begin with this. The system is not limited to a certain number of people on a certain planet. It is much broader and spreads across the entire material Universe, if we speak the language of physics, right up to the sixth dimension — this is what

the system is. Therefore, you can build illusions and aspire to defeat the system. But the best thing is to defeat it within yourself, to stop being its slave. That’s the main goal. For example, even if all people together unite, well, again, if their unification is at the level of consciousness, they will strengthen it, they will strengthen the system itself, not more. But if people open up and evolve spiritually, and their unification is based on spiritual perception of the Boundless and Infinite World through feelings, then the entire might of the system becomes actually less than the

least of anything possible. T: As they used to say in ancient times, everything boils down to the Po particle. Igor Mikhailovich, earlier you told us, in a way interesting for understanding, that in reality, The system itself has no image because the system itself is stationary Po particles, speaking the language of ALLATRA physics. The system merely begets images, but the system itself is nothing. IM: Everything that is finite is worthless, it is nothing. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive T: Igor Mikhailovich, in this video, we already repeatedly mentioned the harmfulness of magic. But, looking

at the modern world, you understand that people have an insufficient understanding Of what magic from the system is and what their consciousness does in everyday life. I’ll briefly tell you how, for example, my consciousness used to discourse when I heard about this topic. Well, that magic definitely doesn’t concern me: I’m neither a psychic nor a great foreteller, nor a mage who performs some rituals, nor an old witch who boils frogs in a cauldron and rides a broom. Because in my consciousness, magic means a sorcerer from a fairy tale, a fire-eater from a circus, or a

shaman from a movie. These are some images, some magic activities Which I either saw in movies or read about in fairy tales in my childhood, when something appears out of nothing. But all this magic had nothing to do with my life. Generally speaking, there was such an understanding that magic is all about fairy tales, while this is “real life.” Many people erroneously suppose so. Igor Mikhailovich, please tell us, what is magic from consciousness in a person's everyday life? IM: Regarding magic… People use magic in everyday life very often, And they do not notice that. When

a person curses someone, when he hates him and wishes evil — this is already a part of magic. This should be known and understood. When a person comes to some temple for communication with God, but asks for the health of his body or for that of his relatives and close people — this is also magic. When a person asks for wealth or resolution of some problem in the material world — this is magic, too. Everything that relates to fulfilment in three-dimensionality of some human desires, Again relating to everything material, while health is also a part

of matter, it’s a part of a material body — all this is magic. This should be understood. Unfortunately, this originated as far back as from ancient priests; they imposed all this on people because they realised that people worshipped higher forces. They intimidated people. Again, whom did they scare people with? They scared them with God. But is this really normal? God is… God is Love, you cannot say otherwise. It’s impossible to select words in any language of the modern world to describe what God is — only Love. That’s the true understanding. But this true understanding, out

of all human words, may be designated only as the highest and the purest Love, meaning, true Love. There can be no other Love in fact, we already discussed this more than once. Therefore, it turns out that people, whether they want this or not, do encounter magic. For example, when a person is planning some meeting for tomorrow. Well, it’s clear, you are planning, the essence of the possible conversation is clear — study the issue, get ready, train your consciousness, prepare it for possible questions. That’s one thing. But when a person starts replaying in his head… Yet,

the question is whether it’s in his head? In consciousness. These actors on the stage begin to play roles for him, and a person already sees himself talking to another person tomorrow. He is planning, and he’s already trying to influence his opponent in order to achieve a desirable result for himself. Isn’t this magic? It is magic. A person wastes those vital forces that should be directed to perception through feelings, to the contact with the Spiritual World, a person wastes them on material benefits, on fulfilment of his own desires. Later on they say, “He is such a

good person, but why is everything so bad?” Or, to put it simply, after the death of his physical body, a person repents, consciousness trembles, while Personality is perplexed — after all, he was good, he did nothing bad to anyone. It’s just that he lived his entire life in magic, put attention into wrong things, and hasn’t arrived anywhere. He was going in circles all the time, although he could have not only belonged to any religion, but could have also been seeking high spiritual goals, trying to achieve them, again by means of what? By means of his

consciousness. Consciousness is a good tool, a necessary tool, but it’s a tool, let’s say, with its own temperament. So, if you need to solve something — let it solve, this is what you finance, this is what you pay attention to. However, when it starts imposing some magic qualities on you, draws you into its various games, this is what you shouldn't do. Many people do not understand this and do not notice how they become a part of a game, participants of theatrical shows, and again, due to what? Magic performances. Well, again, consciousness says that magic means

to perform some ceremonies: one should beat a tambourine, throw herbs or frogs, preferably living ones, Into a boiling cauldron, that’s when a magic action takes place, and a person acquires or receives something. That's ritualism. Rituals merely help to focus: it doesn’t matter what you throw into a cauldron, whether you have a cauldron or not, it’s essential that you desire this. The very process of desiring is already nothing else but a magic action. Especially when people already imagine the end result, let’s say, of that very meeting tomorrow. You can practice shamanism, beat a tambourine, throw herbs

into a cauldron or something else, or you can just imagine the end result: how you will meet with a person tomorrow, what he will tell you, what you will tell him, how you will argue during the conversation, and then you will persuade him so easily. These are games of consciousness. People do not understand that at this moment your consciousness is in contact with his consciousness, although a person doesn’t notice that. And the consciousnesses of both of you are already making a certain decision. As a rule, they make that decision which is essential for the system,

let’s put it gently. But the result is always predetermined. Yet, when you don’t do this, the system does not guarantee a result either to your consciousness or to the consciousness of your opponent. You prepare materials that you need, you learn, come to a meeting, and then it will be as it will be. You didn’t play out a scenario, you didn’t engage in magic, you are free in this case, and here you have many more chances to win the argument. And this is not magic, it’s the truth. Why? Because the system is not prepared for your

action. Zh: Yes. I remember you telling us about this, and it helped very much in realising that magic is a thirst to influence someone. IM: Yes. Zh: Magic is dreams and desires; it’s a thirst to influence someone in the future or a desire to change something in the past, to rewrite one’s past, “If he would have said that, I would have answered him that way…” Well, if you need to do something — just go and do it. If you want to say something — just say it. If not, then forget it! But in no case

play games with consciousness, its games of "alternative existence." After all, you give real power, and in return, the system only nurtures your pridefulness. T: Yes. Why enter into this mental, abstract dialogue with someone, replay these conversations in your thoughts for two or three days, before even meeting this person? Why visualize that you possess something? This is actually magic. People think a lot about empty things, fantasize, have dialogues with other people in their thoughts, argue, assert. Moreover, they argue about what happened a long time ago, think about events of the past or even about events of

the future. But this is precisely magic from consciousness, when you pay attention to three-dimensionality, to what is ultimately like a drop wearing away a stone. And this magic is different from creative planning. For example, when you just need to cook some food, you plan what to cook — it is ordinary planning, ordinary prioritization, like a working day routine. But when you imagine how you will be admired, how you will be praised for the food you have cooked — This is already a desire to satisfy your pridefulness; it’s already magic from consciousness, visualization. In other words,

if you need to cook food — just cook it, act in this direction, but do not imagine. Zh: Magic is when you cannot get an emotion or something desired, then consciousness begins to play over an alternative reality in your thoughts. But have you ordered this movie? After all, what is going on? You evoke images and endow them with the power of attention, that is, with action. The only trouble is that they are an illusion, and you waste real life on the system. As a result, the system prolongs its life, while you acquire death for yourself.

T: Yes, unfortunately… And if your consciousness has nothing to do, it's better to have it study something. Zh: Yes, but in general, it’s better to spend time on spiritual development. Just to strengthen contact with the Spiritual World in yourself because this is boundless happiness, this is inner infinite God's Love. It is much better to be happy than miserable. It is better to be Alive than dead. T: Absolutely right. So, the point is not about planning as such, but that you do not cherish any illusions about that. You plan, get prepared, and then it will be

as it will be. You just move towards the goal. For you, to go and buy some bread or to go to business negotiations is the same thing, so to say, it is decided on the spot. While your entire importance and seriousness is already in something different. It is in those events that occur in perception of the Spiritual World through feelings. And you already spend the power of attention On three-dimensionality not in such huge quantities and, generally, as required, in the saving mode. Zh: Yes, when people prepare for something, they often say, "God willing." But this

is actually wrong. IM: This is wrong, God really doesn’t engage in that. It is just convenient for people, or rather, it is convenient for their consciousness to shift everything onto the higher and strong one. They say, "God gave, God sent, God something else…" But which God do they mean? God who is in Eternity, Or god who is in the temporarily existing system? The temporary god or the True God? Here one should also understand. People often throw words around without understanding their essence, and this is also a kind of magic. A word has power. Some religious

scriptures start with, "In the beginning, there was the word…" There is a reason for that. And it applies not only to Christianity, but it was also in the pre-Christian religions, that in the beginning there was the word. A word is the beginning of so many processes. Why? Because it is voicing of your inner desire, saying it out loud. This in itself is already an activation of certain processes. A person has reactions to habitual words: a negative word said to you causes a certain reaction in you, or a kind word causes another reaction, and so on.

For example, what is entire psychology built on? On the word. What is religion built on? On the word. So, word is word. No matter how you twist it, a word is a tool of three-dimensionality, it’s a tool of this world. A thought is also a tool of the material world. While perception through feelings or direct contact is completely different, it is distinguishable from both a word and a thought. That’s why consciousness does not perceive it. And that is why many people who live by consciousness and are completely controlled by consciousness do not grasp the simple

Truth. They understand all sorts of things: magic, rituals… They comprehend it all, it is all clear, it can be logically explained. But they cannot explain the fact itself — The reality and existence of God. They try to believe, they pretend to believe; many even pretend to serve God, and they teach this to others. But let's look at them without masks — and everything falls into place. T: Yes… Indeed, it’s a good question, how to distinguish people who live by the Spiritual World from laymen? After all, people very often look for some signs, but in three-dimensionality.

Zh: But one can feel these people, really feel them. It’s just that people do not understand that what is dead belongs to the dead, While what is alive belongs to the alive. When people learn to feel the truth, such questions simply will not arise. IM: Sure. Actually, I would like to advise people, even if at the level of consciousness, simply out of curiosity: isn’t it interesting whether the Spiritual World exists or not? Is it possible somehow to exist without thoughts, I mean without the usual way of thinking, but at the level of perception through feelings?

Is it possible to control one's own consciousness? Isn’t that interesting? Just to try. T: Yes, as you, Igor Mikhailovich, said at the beginning of our meeting, simply at least as an experiment, to try to observe oneself: how thoughts come, to write them down, try to control them, try to stop this flow of thoughts or even try to manage it. Then it is very easy to come to an understanding that all of this is not yours and it is not you. You should just try to live by a different perception — perception through the deepest feelings.

And only one pattern from consciousness stands in this way — It’s the pattern of doubts, up to the point that consciousness tells people that "I will not succeed," "I'm not very smart," or "I'm too young," or, on the contrary, "I'm already too old"… IM: The Soul has no age, and neither does Personality. And there is no difference what a person’s age is. Both an old man and a child, and anyone else, can come to know the Spiritual World, if there is such a desire. But the desire arises exactly from Personality, from the aspiration, not from

the mind. If one aspires from the mind, it won’t work. Consciousness never seeks God, that’s also a paradox. But it always seeks magic and secret knowledge; it seeks those powers which are hidden beyond the three-dimensional world, in order to get to that which helps manipulate other matter. T: For a human being as Personality this means going around in a circle, this is simply wasting one’s life for nothing. A great many people get stuck in these very doubts… IM: …in their thoughts and so on, they go on fighting with themselves, with thoughts. Some people are standing

and waiting for someone to bring it to them on a silver platter. At the same time, they want this, really sincerely want this, but do nothing; they don’t work on themselves because of laziness, or something distracts them, and so forth. While many really talented people who were actually aspiring, who were moving, confidently moving, but they turned to the path of magic, or extrasensory perception, you cannot call it otherwise. When people encounter this in reality, it impresses them. Whom does it impress? It impresses consciousness. And if we simply take a look, where are they? They have

remained in the same place. Is there any point in that? T: So, it turns out that initially a person is driven exactly by what is good, exactly by the aspiration from Personality… IM: Of course, by what is good. But the system always alters the good into what is beneficial for it. This is true. T: Yes, even if we take a simple example. In fact, often people, after receiving some initial experience in meditations, try to help, but again, in their understanding, to help their neighbour. For example, to send "rays of love" towards him or something else.

And later they note that "yes, suddenly the neighbour indeed began to feel somewhat better." IM: Well, this is banal physics, it really happens this way. He gives a part of his life to another person, he redirects it. And the other person takes it and successfully tosses it over where? To consciousness. So, the first one gives it to consciousness, and the second one gives it to consciousness. There is no benefit for either the first one or the second one. This is unacceptable, this is magic. T: Yes, and it is clear that it eventually ends with… IM:

They will learn. Let's say, there is such a term as "subpersonality", we mentioned it. Or, as they say in Christianity, "hell". It will not end with anything good. If you want to help — just help. If a person is sick, take him to the doctor. If a person is sad, support him, talk and explain things to him. We need to be supportive. THE SOUL HAS NO AGE, AND NEITHER DOES PERSONALITY T: Now, we would like to briefly touch upon the subject of altered states of consciousness. As of today, in the world, a lot of both

clinical and experimental material has been accumulated regarding altered states of consciousness. And it’s already clear that a human experiences and abides in various states of consciousness every day. For instance, such altered states of consciousness that are advantageous to consciousness — these are the state of wakefulness, the state of sleep, reactions of anger, the state of panic, the state of dreaminess, those very hysterical states, the states caused by consumption of alcohol or drugs, and hypnotic states. Meaning, these are the states of consciousness which people encounter most often in three-dimensionality. But there are also altered states of

consciousness Which accompany spiritual unfolding — those are meditations, prayerful states, and spiritual practices. Generally speaking, there are altered states of consciousness that are beneficial to a person when it comes to development of his Personality, and there are states advantageous to consciousness, ones that actually can even cause harm to a person. So, what happens in the states advantageous to consciousness? There is an active influence on Personality, and consciousness deprives it of a chance of self-identification. For example, if a person is in a state of rage, he’s not able to identify himself as Personality, he is simply

under the control of consciousness. Zh: Yes, and distinctions are obvious. Those altered states of consciousness which are advantageous to consciousness are felt as discrete ones. They are separated from each other, and for every such state it is possible to identify adjacent states. What is meant here? What they begin with, their characteristics, and what they eventually transform into. That’s how the system plans; everything is stereotypical in it, according to a scheme that leads to predetermined results. While in spiritual practice, everything is different. Transition from a deep altered state of consciousness to perception through feelings occurs smoothly,

In a straight line, as if fading away, dissipating. Until there happens this very complete disconnection of Personality from consciousness, and its transition and immersion into perception through feelings, and there is no longer any influence of consciousness there. Perception through feelings radically differs from a deep altered state of consciousness. When there is perception through the deepest feelings, a continuous single-vector process of living here and now is taking place. There, so to say, consecutive states occur, and they are unpredictable, they are alive; they are stable and constantly new at the same time. These are like different states

of multifaceted infinite God’s Love, Which cause both delight and bliss, not at the level of consciousness, but at the level of the deepest feelings. But this is just one of the characteristics of perception of the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings. T: You know, I will share how my consciousness previously reacted stereotypically to the phrase “altered states of consciousness”. Even the term itself already provoked a sort of caution; it provoked fear due to lack of knowledge because for consciousness, this meant either some pathology or leaving the comfort zone; it was just scary for consciousness to

change. But when I read the book AllatRa and encountered the Knowledge, this fear vanished, and on the contrary, there appeared even an aspiration to change myself, just to go seriously in the spiritual direction. Now, when I see the exposure of the system, I just globally see and understand exactly what is happening in a person and in that very society, and why science is pussyfooting around this issue. Just because it was precisely consciousness, and not a free Personality, that placed its accents in science. And exactly from the perspective of the primordial Knowledge, I already study scientific

works with a completely different understanding. And, you know, it’s amazing because it is obvious how from one work to another, consciousness defends its directives, exaggerates their significance, and, correspondingly, it depreciates the significance of those states which lead to spiritual enlightenment because consciousness doesn’t actually understand them. For example, it focuses attention on the fact that the state of wakefulness and the states accompanying it are supposedly "normal states of consciousness", and so here, of course, the system is fully armed. While other states of consciousness, exactly those states of consciousness That lead to spiritual enlightenment — this is

what consciousness regards as something “individual”, something “doubtful”, and in general, it equates them to its psychiatric material outlook as “manifestation of psychoses”, “psychic self-regulation”, or “increase of self-esteem and self-confidence”. Consciousness studies that very “religious ecstasy” and “mystical experience”, first and foremost, as an opportunity to exert influence on somebody or to control the crowd. But if we actually look broader, for example, from the perspective of various cultures and traditions of peoples of the world, then it turns out that for millennia, A totally different situation was preserved. Many peoples of antiquity, including those very eastern civilizations, as

well as many other peoples, as consciousness of some scientists considers — "primitive peoples", they believed and keep believing that almost every adult should know how to enter into a spiritual trance. Everyone certainly calls it differently, but the point is to find a way into this very spiritual fusion, to be able to enter into a spiritual connection, into contact with God. And a great importance, a great value was attached to this as the goal of existence of a human being "to know what is genuine", To know "how to become Enlightened", to know "how to gain Life."

As for the one who was unable to do that, he was considered in society, speaking modern language, to be a psychological cripple. He was considered flawed. At that, everyone had their own tried and tested, both simple and complex techniques for stimulation, for entry into altered states of consciousness, and there was self-exploration through those very meditations, through prayerful states, and through mastering spiritual practices. Generally speaking, they had their own path to the general spiritual road which leads to the ultimate goal — to become Alive during temporary existence. It is certainly clear that consciousness has also done

some work and introduced its distortions and substitutions. Well, at least, it is clear what people strove for in their communities, and what their common goal was. Yet, what do we see nowadays? We see how the system promotes its mindsets in civilization, and it does everything so that you as Personality would become dead. After all, today, "normal" states of consciousness are considered to be exactly those discrete states which keep a person in the bonds of consciousness’ patterns, which satisfy a person’s biological, psychological, and social functions. For instance, what goal is Set while studying altered states of

consciousness? It is to cure diseases of the body, to free oneself from conflict or inner tension, to study the deep inner content of one’s psyche, or to function adequately and constructively in society. But the trouble is that "adequately and constructively" implies from the standpoint of consciousness as a part of the system. And so, what have scientists been studying for many years? Hypnosis, that which actually suppresses Personality; the issues of sleep and dreams are studied, meaning, where consciousness can also make its contribution, and opportunities to anaesthetize one’s body Through these altered states of consciousness are explored.

And it seems like everything is designated for humane purposes, but if we get to the root, consciousness is interested only in those sides which enslave Personality, which just turn it into a slave for consciousness. Even those altered states of consciousness which a person uses at the stages of his or her spiritual path, even there, consciousness makes its substitutions. Look what it uses in those very scientific works to loop a person’s understanding: it says that if you follow the spiritual path, the path of a meditative, spiritual trance, You will find nothing there except hallucinations, except oneiroid

states of consciousness characterised by a combination of images of the three-dimensional world and fantastical ideas, or, let’s say, a commonplace religious ecstasy, mystical experience, accompanying fantasies, meaning, false states which substitute for the reality. Well, of course, this is also partly true, and the substitution is hidden at the root as always. Because consciousness itself is the one that substitutes illusion for the Truth by exactly influencing either aggressively or gently through its states. This is strongly felt. For instance, in perception through feelings, there are no images; there are processes which are beyond the function of consciousness. That

is why consciousness itself limits even the understanding of this issue as such: the highest perception for it is an expanded state of consciousness, a state of peace and comfort; it is false perception through hallucinations of consciousness, meaning, its substitution of perception through feelings, when in a religious trance people perceive, for example, representatives of the Spiritual World in three-dimensional images and even talk to them. But after all, this is an illusion from consciousness, with which it substitutes Personality’s genuine perception of the Spiritual World through feelings. This happens because it is consciousness itself that creates these three-dimensional

images and substitutes communication with itself for the reality of the Spiritual World. They broadcast from consciousness, that’s absolutely true. We already discussed this in other videos that people who start playing with magic, visions come to them, various saints, supposedly representatives of the Spiritual World. But again, they come in images. What does that mean, in images? Just as we see the same people as us with our earthly eyes, or ourselves in a mirror reflection, in the same way they see these representatives. Thus, to put it simply, it’s an illusion and another deceit, a delusion. Yes, while

spiritual practice is liberation from this very false perception of consciousness; it is Personality’s exit beyond the limits of consciousness’ functioning. But people often stop at the stage of comfort, at the stage of mysticism, meaning, at the stage of transition from an altered state of consciousness to perception through feelings. There is an interesting point here. At the stage of cognition of this perception through feelings, it really reveals to people that which consciousness dreams of. But the very first indications begin to reveal themselves exactly when a person reaches deep states of an altered state of consciousness. In

other words, there begins what is now called extrasensory perception, or metaphysics, magic, and so on. And why is it said that you shouldn’t cling onto this under any circumstances? Because you will remain exactly at that level. Yes, in fact, all this magic from consciousness is akin to hypnosis, this very interference from outside. As they say, there is such a term in psychology as "highway hypnosis" or "driving without attention mode", when a person is At the wheel for a long time, he is driving a car on a highway, and he experiences a reduction of sensitivity of

his sense organs and a deficit of movements. Tentatively speaking, we can say that on the spiritual path, something similar happens when a person loses vigil, when his attention weakens, when he gets bewitched by this illusion of the system, and reduction of perception through feelings and this very deficit of advancement, of personal work on himself, takes place. Therefore, it is very important to know these tricks of consciousness for oneself, These tricks when being in altered states of consciousness: both subtle ones which are beneficial to consciousness, upon which substitution of the Truth occurs, and coarse ones which

cause specific harm, like that very alcoholism or drug addiction where a fight between two consciousnesses takes place. ALCOHOLISM DRUG ADDICTION THE WAY OF A DEAD MAN IM: Again, we should note that alcoholism, consumption of drugs, and everything else… After all, whom does it come from? It comes from consciousness. Moreover, this very imposition of alcoholism and drug addiction Originates from primary consciousness, no matter how paradoxical it is. It is trying to erase the influence of secondary consciousness; it is trying to escape from the power of secondary consciousness. It’s a fight with the system inside the system.

And here primary consciousness experiences, when under the effect of alcohol or drugs, the activity of secondary consciousness abates, primary consciousness starts feeling itself a hero. Again, megalomania, self-exaltation, and all opportunities. This is merely the consciousness of a primate. It feels like it is at the top of this world. And this very state, exactly this state, Forces a person to consume alcohol or drugs again and again. It is freedom from consciousness, freedom of consciousness from consciousness. A paradox. Well, it is natural that a person becomes even more dependent on the system. Let’s say, a person who

at least feels the Spiritual World, who has at least a little contact with it and at least knows a little, I emphasize — not believes, but has an experience, knows about the existence of the Spiritual World, he will never consume either alcohol or drugs because this strengthens and activates primary consciousness Which begins to suppress and affect Personality more actively. Well, why would you create obstacles for yourself? It’s the same as when you want to run a hundred metres, but before that, you throw about various unnecessary items from a construction site, and then you run, stumble,

fall, it is painful and unpleasant for you. If you want to go for a run in the morning — run on even ground. Why would you litter on your own running track? T: Igor Mikhailovich, we would also like to expand on the subject of hypnosis a little bit in the context of the knowledge regarding primary and secondary consciousness, from the standpoint of understanding hidden substitutions. The essence of hypnosis precisely consists in direct influence On primary consciousness from the outside. After all, primary consciousness doesn’t perceive the world as such; it perceives it through secondary consciousness. Let’s

say, secondary consciousness can deceive it. Yet, primary consciousness perceives reactions of the body. While secondary consciousness perceives reactions of the body through primary consciousness; it is such a sequence, just to make it clear. At that, work of the brain is a reflection; let’s say, it’s already a material manifestation of the work of consciousness. First and foremost, of the work of primary consciousness. But it is still connected with the material world as well. However, Personality is connected only with primary consciousness. As a matter of fact, all this is simple; if you take a pen and draw

it all, everything falls into place. So, for Personality, it’s an even greater oppression when the consciousness of that very hypnotist also interferes. It turns out that not only does Personality experience this very influence of its primary and secondary consciousness, but on top of that a third party from the system also interferes — it is the hypnotist’s consciousness which creates additional images, exerts influence and programmed impact. Absolutely right. But there is a little nuance here: when upon influence by means of hypnosis or magic, it doesn’t matter which of them, there is a direct impact on primary

consciousness, here a substitution also takes place. It may be suggested to a person that he is a famous singer: he will sing and perceive himself as this famous singer, answer questions, and so on. We see that there was, let’s say, John Smith, and he still remains John Smith. He poses as some kind of famous singer, but outwardly he hasn’t changed, although he is convinced that he is really a famous singer. Why? Because I’m saying once again, primary consciousness doesn’t have a pronounced intellect. But it can use the database, meaning, that experience which is accumulated or

acquired by means of secondary consciousness, this is also an interesting point, or that which we call the Back Essence. It’s nothing other than a data bank, it’s where memory is stored. And, unfortunately or fortunately, the brain has nothing to do with that. What is magic? Magic is exactly performed… Well, I’ll disclose a secret: when a person develops at the level of primary consciousness, when this very primary self evolves and the system is studied, a person can indeed learn various magic techniques, that which we call extrasensory perception and all the rest. This takes place precisely due

to the activeness of primary consciousness. It is able to work very actively even at the level of the sixth dimension, meaning, to transform various manifestations, to see plans of the system, to hear them, and so on. As for secondary consciousness, it is surely limited. It can be surprised, generate enormous emotions and surges, emit a wave which overwhelms primary consciousness, and this is reflected on our body. Yes, I suppose this will indeed be helpful for many people. After all, the phenomenon of hypnosis is still considered to be an unsolved mystery for researchers. But now, the very

essence of this phenomenon and the harmfulness Of its impact on a human being as Personality in general is already understandable. In fact, today a lot of people know that hypnosis is used for medical purposes. Well, perhaps, in some extremely severe therapeutic cases, this may even be justified. But on the whole, given the list of where specifically hypno-suggestive psychotherapy is used, and who exactly does this… Well, here already a question arises, of course, what is more important for a person: his body or Personality? After all, basically, people often go to various hypnotists when they are simply

too lazy to change themselves, To just take care of the health of their body and work on its bad habits. But they want magic. Yet, none of them certainly thinks about what they will pay for it afterwards. Thus, it is no coincidence that even in olden times, hypnosis was written about as a phenomenon that “ruins human spirit,” that it is “conscious service to evil,” and earlier, by the way, in the past centuries, it was called “animal magnetism.” In that very Christianity, it was labelled as a type of witchcraft and equated with black magic. Now, after

such detailed explanations, I believe it will be clearer for people why magic must not be used. It is obvious that one mustn’t use magic techniques, Mustn’t strive for and desire magic because in a human being, only consciousness can desire magic. If you dream of power, if you dream of magic, especially secret power, if you aspire to develop some super abilities in yourself, if you engage in that — you live by consciousness, meaning, you mistakenly waste your time. Yes, people develop these abilities in themselves, but what’s in the end? Death. It’s the state of subpersonality, age-long

torments. But what is the point of these actions, of these abilities? What is the point? After all, again, certain techniques actually exist… Well, let’s not talk about artificial techniques. For instance, quite often people encounter the phenomenon of “rebirth of the soul” when a child suddenly starts saying that he lived at a certain time, in a certain place, and so on. And upon checking what the child is talking about, it turns out that it is really so. He recognizes his relatives and describes the cause of his death. This is precisely an active subpersonality which suppresses Personality

and starts living life instead of it. Thus, definitely, even a new Personality is doomed to reincarnation, to the state of subpersonality. This happens often, unfortunately. But it is caused by certain situations, by premature death or again by magic. A person practised magic, he was a powerful mage. Yes, upon rebirth he can suppress the primary consciousness of a new Personality and eventually be temporarily a master at the level of, I emphasize, his primary consciousness, suppressing the new primary consciousness and suppressing the activity of the new Personality. And what’s the point? Both Personality and that very consciousness

will go to reincarnation together with him, And again, it will all become a subpersonality. Yet, these abilities actually don’t last for a long time. He will live an unfulfilled life because at the level of primary consciousness it’s impossible to live a fulfilled life. It’s like an illusion. Everything is an illusion. Generally speaking, life may be compared to a supermarket where there is always a cash register at the exit. What will you pay with? And life is very short. Because time is an illusion which is imposed on us by consciousness. After all, it tells you that

you still have a lot of time, That it is very long. But look behind you. Where was yesterday? And it will never come back anymore. Time flies very fast and irreversibly. If you don’t strive for Life now, you won’t strive for it tomorrow either. That’s the point. As for the day after tomorrow, you simply don’t have it, that’s the trouble. Well, everyone chooses what he likes and desires, and what he aspires to. And the highest freedom of a human being is precisely in this. It is the right he is endowed with — the right of

choice. I believe it is the fairest thing possible. Even the right to make mistakes. The right to death, and the right to Life. This is granted to a human. Yes. It’s just some kind of human foolishness… It turns out that pridefulness and lack of knowledge result in people doing bad things, and the system actively uses that for its purposes. For instance, even if we take those very magic phenomena. It is clear that since magic phenomena actually exist, this is needed for something on a global scale in the format of survival of civilization as a whole.

For example, we already mentioned those true saints… You mean there are also those, let’s say, who serve the Spiritual World. These are the ones who were called true saints, who could somewhat influence certain events, serving first of all the Spiritual World. There are such people, of course, certainly there are. However, the point is that such people serve the Spiritual World solely in the interests of God, but not in the interests of any individuals, and all the more, not in their own interests. That is, not in the earthly, selfish interests. Right, not in the earthly interests

of their own consciousness. Their thoughts, desires and deeds cannot be selfish, for they, again, Result from the actions of Angels in this world, who are enclosed in bodies. They are only temporarily here. ONE MUST NOT STRIVE FOR AND DESIRE MAGIC BECAUSE IN A HUMAN BEING, ONLY CONSCIOUSNESS CAN DESIRE MAGIC Yes, and in fact, this differs greatly from those who at all times were called false prophets, who, under the guise of spirituality, actually served consciousness, pursuant to their selfish motives. And just note, we are again touching upon these false prophets, false teachers, so to say. The

first thing they promise to people is excellent physical health, that you won’t be sick, you will gain strength. And there is also such a term as “spiritually strong”. You see, “strong people”, “spiritually strong” — there is an emphasis on strength everywhere. Yes, a desire to possess something. To possess. To possess certain power, and an aspiration for domination. Yes, the system promises a lot, gives something insignificant, but takes away what is greater. That is, it gives a person an illusion that… IM: An illusion. An illusion of power. But when a person gains true power, spiritual power,

and when indeed, today, a former ordinary person of yesterday is capable of much, that which no mage will ever get, does he have even a little desire to use this power for himself or for anything earthly? No. For the spiritual — this is Life, while for the earthly — this is poison. Of course. And who would want to taste poison while being alive? That’s the point. Well, the system substitutes all this. Once again, it mirrors it, promising magic, some super abilities, while in actual fact, it creates illusions. And a person wastes time on attaining another

illusion. But what will he get in return? An illusion. Right, and just to think, what do people waste their lives on? They waste time on reading someone else's thoughts. But what for? What will you actually do with that? Sort out your own thoughts. You actually hear someone else's thoughts all the time, from morning to evening, consciousness is telling you. They are not yours. If you doubt it, okay, just check: stop a thought or change it in the direction you need. And again, the direction needed to whom: to you as Personality or to your consciousness, the

one who manipulates you? Right, you don’t want to hear thoughts even from your own consciousness. After all, the enemy lives inside every person, and it is his consciousness. The one who sees an enemy in what is external doesn’t see him inside oneself. And if you choose, if you accept his directives… If you invest the power of your attention in implementing those thoughts, desires and aspirations which consciousness imposes on you, that's already your choice. Right, that is why it’s advantageous to the system that a person doesn’t know about the true essence of consciousness, about its connection

with the system. Because then a person… escapes from under its power. After all, who among people likes to be controlled and goaded? No one. Note, people are very fond of teaching. Mostly those people like to teach who don’t know What they teach, who don’t have personal experience. And then they refer to anything whatsoever, try to prove to others that it’s their own experience and so on, although they don’t understand it themselves. They themselves don’t even know what they talk about, but at the same time they demand it from others. Yes, such people in whom consciousness

still predominates, are immediately visible. One of the indications of the system’s work in their heads is the pattern of “concealing the source”, that is, where they took this Knowledge from, and also their own interpretations when they convey the Knowledge, distortion of it. Once again, people always strive to present it, let’s say, as their own in order to make an impression on those who listen to them, and the like. While in this case, it is banal egoism, thirst for manipulation, thirst for power — everything from the system. These are people who act from the mind. Yes,

and they justify it by the fact that people are supposedly not ready to hear about the source. After all, the system locks the Knowledge, covering it with such a point that "I'll tell you about it a little bit later… maybe…" As we already discussed, consciousness always opposes everything spiritual. And in this case, a person who seemingly conveys the Knowledge and speaks about it, but he speaks through consciousness. Naturally, he gets caught. It means that a person doesn’t have a true spiritual experience. He wishes to have this experience, but even more he wishes others to believe

that he has this experience. Yet, this happens until a person opens up inside. For the most part, people choose false prophets. Why? Their directives are simpler and more pleasant for consciousness. Thus, consciousness doesn’t actually reject them. "You don’t need to change anything in yourself," they say. Absolutely right. And once again, they talk about acquisition, That you will acquire something. While all this always borders on magic. What do they promise to people? That you will get this, you will get that, and so on. Yes, they say, "Follow me and listen to what I say. And you

will be given, you will acquire in three-dimensionality or in the body"… But they basically voice the mindsets of consciousness. Yet, any of the true prophets who came, prophets and other knowledge carriers, they always speak on behalf of the One Who sent them and Who empowered them. Yes, and their life, the life of the true prophets is actually an example in itself. Absolutely right. But their life is not comprehensible to consciousness. That is why people who live by and believe more in consciousness… while belief is once again what? Whom does belief belong to? To consciousness. Only

personal experience, spiritual experience… Zh: Inner knowledge. Knowledge, of course. It gives true freedom. And life begins right away and instantly. If you feel this, if you strive for it, you simply sweep everything unnecessary aside. This is like one sculptor used to say when he was asked, “How did you manage to make such a beautiful statue of this stone?” He responded, “It was always there, I just removed what was superfluous.” It’s the same here. A person just removes what is superfluous in himself and leaves the Angel. This is simple. Whereas, when active conductors of the system

get involved in matters, meaning, people who do not strive for spiritual development, but aspire to exploit knowledge about the path for their own benefit… Well, basically, there have always been such individuals, that is why various trends in religions and everywhere were created, and the like. Such people always aspire to seize power, they always have inner hatred and a whole lot of desires. Right, and such a person who lives by consciousness simply copies an image, likens himself, but he doesn’t live by the Knowledge inside him. What does he liken himself to? He likens himself to what

he sees in three-dimensionality. Because he doesn’t feel and doesn’t understand what lies beyond three-dimensionality. But at the same time, he actively talks about it and exploits others. Egoism, pridefulness, comfort, desire to attain something, to learn and then to exploit this Knowledge for his own benefit, first and foremost. But what is actually happening? The system imposes this, and they, like slaves, obediently do what their consciousness orders them to do. And so, when such a leader appears, he always builds some empires Of his own to please himself, goes against everything, and so on. The most interesting thing

is that when listening to these leaders people do understand that something is wrong, but keep silent because they see that others are also silent. And why does this happen? Because this is convenient and pleasing for the system. Because such representatives of the system always do everything in their power to divert as many people as possible from the spiritual path. Even though they talk about the spiritual path and say, “You will possess power, you will do this and that, you will serve.” But in actual fact, you know this pretty well and you understand that if a

person chases after extrasensory abilities, and this is nothing other than magic, Then he has one route — to become a subpersonality. Because, whether he wants to or not, he will use these powers either for himself or for his leader. Meaning, in the interest of whom? A mortal human or a part of the system. Yet, when a person serves satan, there is nothing for him to do in heaven. As they say, whoever you work for is who you will remain with. From the inevitably dead to the eternally Alive T: What about people who embark on the

path of true service? IM: As for people who embark on the path of service, true service, after all, they never use these powers for themselves. Why would they need anything for themselves? If they need bread, they will go and earn this bread for themselves. If they need clothes, they will earn these clothes. In three-dimensionality, our body is that same machine which should work and maintain itself. They simply serve their time here, let's say, with a benefit for the Spiritual World. But they always do everything only for the Spiritual World, and not for themselves personally. While

for themselves personally in three-dimensionality, like ordinary people, they work and earn. They don’t strive for anything unnecessary, for any excesses. You know this yourselves, don’t you? Just a little while ago, you wanted a lot, And then it simply lost its meaning. It really loses its meaning. Zh: Well, yes, the way of life changes, and what used to be valued changes. For instance, you were looking for a meaning in some external circumstances. But now you understand to what extent your life back then was just an empty existence in the labyrinth of the system. IM: Of course.

Zh: Yet, when practice began, when responsible inner work on myself started, when I came into contact with the Spiritual World which opened that which is Real, This very perception through the deepest feelings, Life in the fullness of spiritual Love. And when indeed… IM: When Life has become Life, everything dead and temporary turns uninteresting and meaningless. But in order to understand this, people first of all need an aspiration for it. True aspiration. Zh: Yes, true aspiration and true choice. After all, the main thing has become clear, that God is exactly the true reality, and the World

of His Love is boundless. IM: Right. There is one simple example. For people who are involved in "service", let's say, under the signboard of something divine, but who actually serve the devil, they serve their desires, their consciousness, they serve many people whom they consider to be authorities. Meaning, for them, authorities exist. Whereas, spiritually free people who gain Life, there is only one authority for them — the Spiritual World, God. While everything else is… Zh: It simply doesn’t exist. IM: Or it is temporary. While everything that is temporary is temporary. Everything passes except for the Spiritual

World. God is eternal. Everything passes except for the Spiritual World. God is eternal IM: The Spiritual World is always True. It cannot be any other way. Everything that originates from the Spiritual World is always true. This is definite. But this Truth is in three-dimensionality, while three-dimensionality is the world of delusions. It is always distorted because of reflections and a mirror effect. T: Yes, because of illusions, this very crookedness of consciousness, with adjustment for the system. A vivid example, as we already mentioned, is that any person who serves his consciousness takes knowledge about the True Path

and talks about it, but only puts commas in his own order at the consciousness’ discretion. Hence, those who listen to him get ignited because they feel that knowledge is there, but it’s just that afterwards they go in the wrong direction without even suspecting it. And, generally speaking, when you study the system, You are simply amazed at how the system twists things, how it substitutes, how it imposes (ɪmˈpəʊzɪz) on a person to aggressively defend some stereotypical snags from consciousness, one might say, such a mystical-atheistic worldview of the system itself. IM: This is an indicative point of

how the system works. The devil always demands of his adept to punish a dissenter, to insult him, to call him names, to kill him, to remove him, and it always urges people to punish someone for injustice. Whereas, a spiritually free person, when he sees that another person is mistaken, he may regret inside… T: Feel sorry… IM: …feel sorry, yes, regret that he has chosen the wrong way, and that's all. Why punish someone who has punished himself much worse than you can punish him? After all, what can be more terrible than the state of subpersonality? What

can be more torturous? In this world, no matter how a person is tortured, it will be over anyway. A year, two or five years, it doesn’t matter how long you torture him, it will all pass, everything ends. While centuries of torments — this is more serious. That is why you certainly feel sorry: sorry for lost opportunities, for missed chances, but this is the choice. At least this is fair. A person himself chooses whom to listen to, what to do, and how to act. After all, inside he understands and knows that it is wrong, that's the

point. Doesn’t Personality see that actors are in front of it? It does see. Doesn’t it feel that under the cover of true words it is being enslaved? It does feel. T: Yes, and here a person should ask himself a question, "For whom do I implement this program, and why do I do this, if I thus create a problem for myself?" In fact, these are merely desires from consciousness. It’s a thirst for power, a thirst to be like everyone else, again, to dominate someone, to mean something in this world. IM: Note, to mean something in this

world. Again, we return to a person who has gained spiritual freedom, does he have a desire to mean anything in this world? T: It is actually just the opposite, it's better to be invisible to the system, but to be visible from the Spiritual side, to the Spiritual World. IM: That's right. In other words, only in what relates to the service. Zh: Right. T: Personality does feel how to act right. While the system logically justifies why this is wrong. The system is a liar. And only inside yourself can you distinguish Truth from lies, only at the

level of perception through the deepest feelings. IM: Imagine: There is a path of three steps — and a door to Paradise. However, this path is covered with thorns. You have to walk it with your earthly feet. But you have enough strength to take three steps, and afterwards you don’t need feet. Yet, sparing his feet, a human spends his entire life so as not to take these three steps, but to go around faraway mountains and to try to enter from another side. However, the trouble is that this path is so long that you will not cover

even a quarter of it during your lifetime. Why? Because you spare our feet. After all, they are earthly, they are sort of yours. As long as a person perceives them as his own feet, he will keep sparing them. But when a person realizes that they are like wheels in a car, sooner or later they will wear out — he will always take these three steps. When he feels the Spiritual World, it’s impossible to deceive him. Then no liar will be able to tell him fairy tales, and even if he will, this person won't believe them.

T: Igor Mikhailovich, we would also like to cover such a question, "Is there any difference between intuitive perception of the world and perception through the deepest feelings?" By "intuitive perception", what people call "subconscious" is meant here. IM: That’s an interesting question. Why? Because people often confuse it. The difference is huge. As a rule, intuitive perception of the world occurs at the level of primary consciousness. And more often it happens… it can really happen with a shift in time, with greater understanding, but these are hints from the system. But when a person perceives from the position

of Personality, meaning, through the deepest feelings, he perceives a holistic picture. He doesn’t perceive it fragmentarily, as at the level of intuitive perception. For instance, a person is walking and realises that now, around that very corner, he will meet someone whom he hasn’t seen for a long time, and it really happens. Many people encounter this phenomenon, and it is difficult to explain it otherwise than by means of some kind of intuition, some kind of magic, predictions, or something else. This is actually magic which, in fact, comes from the system. The system sometimes throws to a

person such, let’s say, magical manifestations so that a person would think over the fact That he has some kind of magic power and would spend his vital force on developing these abilities in himself, or, simply put, on digging a deeper grave for himself. But when a person is in contact with the Spiritual World through the deepest feelings, he perceives himself as a Personality free from consciousness, and at this moment an understanding comes to him that right now, around the corner, he will meet a person — well, first of all, he will understand holistically who this

person is, why the system sent him, and what for. Some people may counter, “Why exactly the system? Why cannot, for instance, the Spiritual World send him?” Here I will reply to this question for the seekers of answers with the help of consciousness in such a way that if two people with developed Personalities, with mature Personalities that, speaking human language, constantly abide in contact with the Spiritual World by means of the deepest feelings, they will know about it long in advance. It will no longer be news that they will meet there, around the corner, because they

are in contact with each other anyway. In this world, everything is divided, I’ll repeat once again. Here, an accidental encounter which supposedly "your subconsciousness" Has hinted you at, again, "your subconsciousness" in quotes, that you will meet there — it looks magical. While from the position of exactly a developed Personality… And a developed Personality is the one that is in incessant contact with the Spiritual World, meaning, when a person already Lives, when his body is still alive and, being in the body, he’s already an immortal being or the one whom in religion they call "Angels", well,

they are called differently in different religions. For us, in the modern world, this understanding is closer, the understanding of what an Angel is. When a person is already an Angel, while being in this world, he doesn’t need to use magic to know where another Angel is. I think it will be clearer this way. Because here everything is divided, while There everything is united. A developed Personality is the one that is in incessant contact with the Spiritual World T: At that, there are people who have spontaneous extrasensory abilities. But they often lack knowledge and understanding of

where they actually spend their powers, what they invest their attention in. Because consciousness, as a rule, narrows their point of perception down to the area of some kind Of their personal local conflict in three-dimensionality. IM: Again, touching on the subject of magic or that which is called extrasensory perception, no matter what we call it, magic is magic; it is the use of spiritual powers for influencing the material world. There are indeed people in whom extrasensory abilities begin to unfold spontaneously, and people often just start using them. Some of them do not even want anything for

themselves, they sort of help other people. But the use of magic powers in the material world not for serving the Spiritual World always ends in the same way. This should be known and understood. After all, any person who even has this gift, and many people experienced this, we know that from history as well, they didn’t use these powers. While possessing them, they didn’t use them, understanding what this leads to. This is interference in three-dimensionality. Yet, many crave for that. The system always pushes people onto the path of magic, again, of secret power, force, and everything

else, all these earthly desires. People, whom the system itself urges to possess magic, Serve their consciousness. This is precisely the path of lies. Because any manifestation of magic in three-dimensionality is nothing but an intensive, obtrusive manifestation of illusion. T: Well, yes, magic is like a trap for attention, like a mousetrap with free cheese. IM: Absolutely right. Why does the system reveal it all, and why does it allow all this? Only in order to provoke any emotion in you: an emotion of pridefulness or anger towards a person who is now discussing you, and the like. But

when you do not give in to this, it all passes by, And you understand perfectly well that this is merely consciousness. When you understand and know this, you don’t even want to pay attention to it. T: Yes, provocations of consciousness mostly begin with a desire, generated by an emotional surge at that, as a rule based on pridefulness. Once you have clung to something with your attention, that is, have chosen a point of application of action… IM: When you are ready to open up to consciousness, to the system — the system attacks you, it cannot be

otherwise. It always exerts a certain pressure. As soon as you have slackened, where you have slackened, That’s the very spot it has pressed into. Consciousness, which is a part of the whole system, actually begins to echo inside you in unison, meaning, to provoke an emotional reaction in you in response so that you would shift the power of attention and spend it precisely on something empty and temporary. Thus, you actually abandon the path leading to the Spiritual World. T: Yet, why every time do there appear people who strive to possess magic so much? Even despite the

fact that in human society, from generation to generation, one way or another, through one or another religion, This information about the danger, about the harmfulness of magic is conveyed. It is certainly obvious how the system endeavours to erase the primordial knowledge over time, and the majority of people no longer understand why this mustn’t be done. But on the whole, they at least remember the warnings of their grandfathers and fathers. IM: People’s thirst for magic lies deeply in consciousness, in the system itself. The system always seeks to learn more than it possesses. Therefore, one of the

stages, I would even call it not a stage, But a Guard through which people pas, not everyone, but the majority, on the spiritual path, — it is precisely these paranormal abilities which a person unexpectedly begins to notice in himself. What do many people do? They start using them and get carried away. And what happens? Instead of taking three steps towards the open door to the Spiritual World, they go very far away in the opposite direction. Zh: Yes, and when one has a personal experience, I would even say not the most pleasant experience of facing this

Guard, one understands everything that you are now saying, How weighty it is, how significant and truthful. And that a lot more is concealed in it than we hear. This Guard, this primary stage of going through this phenomenon, the beginning of spontaneous manifestation of magic abilities, it is not just felt. It is when you walk around, see and understand what people around want, what they talk about and what they think about right away; all this dirt and absurdity, and you see what they will do in the next moment. It is felt that this is imposed on

them by consciousness, and what is happening to their Personalities at this time. After all, Personalities of these people are like babies pushed into a corner, to whom a movie is being shown, while they believe in this lie of the system. It’s uncomfortable, it’s unpleasant. And the first thing you feel when these abilities unfold is rejection and unwillingness to listen to consciousness at all because you understand that this is some illusion and ravings that are merely imposed stereotypically for manipulation. And you understand that when many people crave for magic, they actually don’t quite understand what they

crave for, What they sign up for, and what a terrible sentence they pass on to themselves. It's unpleasant, it is filthy, and it is better not to even see it and not to know such an experience. Because, if you focus your attention on that, you immediately feel how the pressure from the system upon you begins to increase, and the system immediately starts loading you up. It’s like a pressing informational mass, overloaded like… it is overloaded with emptiness. And this state is intolerable, it is like unpleasant burning… IM: This may be compared to a dust storm.

The one who has been in a desert during a dust storm will understand this. By associations, it happens similarly to a state when it’s impossible to breathe, it is burning, it’s unpleasant, and you just want to hide somewhere. People go through these states, and what is good about these abilities, in fact? Zh: Nothing. It just feels like something dead and… smells like death. IM: Absolutely right. But again, if we look deeper into this issue, Then it is obvious that while being in service, some people do possess certain powers which enable them to interfere this way.

But is it them who do these deeds? No. They do it with the Holy Spirit. Although many psychics say that “according to God’s will, with the Holy Spirit.” But in actual fact, it’s exactly the opposite. They mirror these powers and use them for what is dead and for basic needs. Yet, can a spiritually free person use these powers for his own benefit or for the benefit of another person? He cannot. Representatives of the Spiritual World are the ones who can interfere, but they interfere not of their own will. That’s precisely the will of the One

Who implements through them. A spiritually free person will never use these powers for himself personally or for another person, or for his organization, or for anything else. No. This may concern only the Spiritual World, merely Its interests in this world, nothing more than that. There is a very subtle line here: consciousness will tell people that “you actually try to acquire or use These extrasensory abilities not for yourself, but you do it for the Spiritual World,” and so on. Yet, what is being suggested that you do? Because it is always suggested: to influence a particular person,

to influence some specific situation. For what purpose? To improve what? And everything always boils down to a material point. While everything that boils down to a material point, to the interests of any individual, either to yourself or to your authoritative teacher, Or to some organisation, or to something else — it is nothing else but magic. Whereas, if these powers are used by those who serve the Spiritual World, they are used only for global purposes, nothing more. But there are no interests of any persons, any organizations or anything else. So, the difference is tremendous. That’s when

it relates to the interests of the Spiritual World. These phenomena are extremely rare, but they do happen. T: Many people do not even understand what global purposes are. For many, at most, it means to stop a war in three-dimensionality. And a lot of people dream, or rather their consciousness creates for them images of themselves as heroes and offers them a thought that if they possessed such a magic power, they would do that. Again, this is a stereotypical way of thinking which a person has merely copied from society’s movie collection, from television, or has learned from

mass media. IM: In order to stop a war, you can use tools of three-dimensionality. Powers are not used in order to influence, let’s say, the choice of other people in one or another issue. There is the freedom of choice, Including in what relates to wars or something else. You have tongues, so speak, communicate. Everything is simple. It’s not gods who start wars — it is people, hence people are the ones to end them. Yet, when an issue is much more global, such as issues relating to survival of the entire humanity, in that case there may

be certain interferences from outside, let’s say, from the Spiritual World. But this applies only to the entire humanity as a whole and its future existence, and by no means to smaller issues. Although consciousness can also tell here, “Well, you are sitting in meditation and trying to influence the whole world so that they become better.” Become better yourself, become freer yourself because you should start, first of all, with yourself. When you become such a person as you want the rest of people to be, that’s when you will teach them the same as well. T: Yes, one

should work on oneself. IM: Of course, on oneself, it is pointless to work on a neighbour. It won’t help. A neighbour might even become free, but it will not make you feel any better. One should work on oneself T: Yes, in our three-dimensional life, we regard all sorts of things as important: some kinds of achievements, some kinds of aspirations. But all this is in three-dimensionality. We just waste our time on illusion, on perishable things. However, is this really important for us? No. It’s important for consciousness. But consciousness is not us. It only seems to us

that consciousness is us. That’s the point. This is exactly what magic from consciousness is, When consciousness substitutes understanding at the core. It’s like in hypnosis: here you are an ordinary person, and then you’re already a famous singer. So, magic from consciousness desires from pridefulness, unimplemented in three-dimensionality; it’s a thirst for significance, for achievement of greatness in three-dimensionality. These are merely desires of consciousness. But where are you as a Human? After all, any Personality is inherently great because it is potentially alive. IM: Yes, that’s why Knowledge is always simple; The true, pure Knowledge is always simple.

It is accessible, it is open, but consciousness doesn’t perceive it well. Why? Because knowledge scares it. Hence consciousness starts doing everything possible so that a person would forget it. We also said it more than once that, having gained a certain spiritual experience, after a day or two, a person forgets what he understood. Why does this happen? Consciousness is like a Guard. It does everything to retain its power over Personality. That’s the point. And it always fragments and complicates things. T: Yes, consciousness erases genuine Spiritual Knowledge a great deal. After all, it really exposes the system

in yourself, it just tears the mask off the system and uncovers its true essence. Certainly, for the system itself, it’s not beneficial to lose control over those people whom it has been exploiting for many years, whom it has been raising in the grip of its patterns, system’s corrals for attention, on the hooks of emotional states and conjectures from the mind. Zh: Yes, as for spiritual knowledge, consciousness erases it right away, Does not remember it… if you don’t remind it of that earnestly, of course. T: Yes, while some rubbish, some fragment of a movie that you

watched ten years ago, or an episode of a soap opera when for many hours you were mindlessly sitting in front of a TV set for nothing, simply hanging on the hook of the system’s intrigues. Here, by all means, the actors will immediately reproduce that in your head in all bright colours of emotions and intimate details. Why? Because it is beneficial for the system to hold you on a leash of images of three-dimensionality, Forcing you to invest the power of your attention in nourishment of the system. And the main thing is that you have chosen this

yourself. Zh: Yes, and it’s an interesting comparison because people watch TV series from the system for many hours, and sometimes even years. For hours, they talk about trifles on the phone, spend a lot of time squabbling about who dominates over whom; for days they talk in their minds with other people, trying to prove something to them. That is, how much time do they spend on becoming dead? And how much time do they spend on becoming Alive? It is interesting that this unique video Has been going on for several hours already. But only those people who

are really steadfast in their decision to become Alive will watch it to the end. And such people will not only watch it to the end, but they will repeatedly return to it. And with every new cycle, they will grow in their inner awareness, in perception through the deepest feelings, and their Spirit will be reinforced and become stronger. IM: Absolutely right. For instance, a person follows the spiritual path of development; he seems to understand something and begins to feel a certain degree of freedom. And at some point in time he is distracted by something — and

here consciousness rearranges everything, rearranges everything in its own way. And instead of building his future in the Spiritual, Boundless World, a person starts building temporary castles, a territory for his comfort. He starts building a place where he can manifest his power. Yet, why? A simple question. Consciousness wants it to be so. At that time, a person doesn’t even think about what he will pay for that. He is enjoying and living now, but he is living by illusions. There is a point here as well. The Guard is the Guard precisely so as to let through the

worthy ones. But again, what do we come to? To people’s choice. People themselves wanted to complicate their existence. Well, they have complicated it. And they have complicated it to such an extent that now it is extremely difficult to break away from the fetters of their own consciousness. Well, on the other hand, The more difficult was the fight, the more well-deserved is the victory. This is right, too. IM: What is magic? It is the use of your chance to gain Eternal Life, to become a part of the Spiritual World… this very power you use to get

temporary, empty and needless things. Magic is used by people in everyday life very frequently, and people don’t notice this. When a person curses someone, when he hates him and wishes evil — this is already a part of magic. This should be known and understood. When a person comes to some temple for communication with God, but asks for the health of his body or for that of his relatives and close people — this is also magic. When a person asks for wealth or resolution of some problem in the material world — this is magic, too. Everything

that relates to fulfillment in three-dimensionality of some human desires, again relating to everything material — all this is magic. A person wastes those vital forces that should be directed to perception through feelings, to the contact with the Spiritual World, a person wastes them on material wealth, On fulfilment of his own desires. Consciousness is a good tool, a necessary tool, but a tool, let’s say, with its own temperament. I will give a simple example. In India, they use elephants. Many people know from movies how they carry logs on their tusks, and the like. But one should

understand that an elephant identifies itself, it has a well-developed consciousness, a well-developed memory. And at any moment, just like a bear, it can become aggressive and attack. Although since its childhood it has been brought up to be nice and obedient. Human consciousness is the same, it is like that elephant or that bear. On the one hand, it is obedient, executes commands, but it can always attack. Therefore, one should understand this, know this, and, let’s say, there is such an expression, “to keep on a tight leash.” The very process of desiring is already nothing else but

a magic activity. Especially when people already imagine the end result, let’s say, of that very meeting tomorrow. Meaning, games of consciousness. People don’t understand that at this moment Your consciousness is in contact with his consciousness, although the person doesn’t notice that. And the consciousnesses of both of you are already making a certain decision. As a rule, they make a decision that is essential for the system. But the result is always predetermined. Yet, when you haven’t played out a scenario, you haven’t engaged in magic — you are free in this case. And here you have many

more chances to win the argument. And this is not magic. This is truth. Why? Because the system is not prepared for your action. Consciousness is like a Guard. It does everything to retain its power over Personality. That’s the point. And it always fragments and complicates things. As soon as it finds a weak side in a human being… For instance, a person follows the spiritual path of development and begins to feel a certain degree of freedom. And at some point in time he is distracted by something — and here consciousness rearranges everything, rearranges everything in its

own way. And the person, instead of building his future in the Spiritual, Boundless World, he starts building temporary castles, a territory for his comfort. He starts building a place where he can manifest his power. Yet, why? A simple question. Consciousness wants it to be so. At this time, a person doesn’t even think about what he will pay for it. He is enjoying and living now, but he is living by illusions. The Guard is the Guard precisely so as to let through the worthy ones. But again, what do we come to? To people’s choice. People themselves

wanted to complicate their existence. Well, they have complicated it. On the other hand, the more difficult was the fight, The more well-deserved is the victory. The more difficult was the fight, the more well-deserved is the VICTORY Zh: From the perspective of the Spiritual World, all people are united, they are even closer than close relatives. But from the perspective of consciousness, all people are divided, they are hostile to each other, even close relatives. Until a person rids himself of the dictatorship of consciousness, he will not find reconciliation and freedom within himself. For anyone who divides is

a servant of the devil, while the devil is the only enemy of humankind. This video will change the future. Because this Truth is searched for by everyone: those who trample on Death for the sake of Life, those who expose Lies for the sake of Truth, those who yearn for salvation in Spirit, those who, for the sake of boundless Love, seek God and immensely Love Him. Spiritual will changes everything, whatever plans the system might build. The one who is in Spirit is with Spirit! The one who is with Spirit is with God! The book AllatRa gave

a powerful impulse. It begot a movement. And many people around the world discovered for themselves the Knowledge concealed in millennia. And many people, thanks to AllatRa, have been gaining Spirit, secretly studying the path that leads to God. Yet, fear and disagreement still prevailed in their heads. Fear and disagreement coming from the mind, from lies of the system. Many thanks to Igor Mikhailovich for this real opportunity to come into contact with the Spiritual World in practice, to expose in oneself the inevitably dead, to find and develop oneself in the eternally Alive. For the Knowledge that is

given now in this alive conversation will change the world. And this is inevitable. This Knowledge will liberate a great number of people from the system’s fetters. Masks will fall off many people, the shackles and chains of their consciousness will come off. And many people will expose the system’s face in their minds. And the devil will have nowhere to hide in the minds of people, for his mask is torn off, and he is exposed. Everyone who explores themselves can see his thoughts and his deeds in their heads, distinguish in themselves temporary from Eternal, mortal from Alive,

and find their real self and gain eternal happiness. For the Knowledge that is given today has separated black from the white, and there will be no more grey. Many people will come to know the essence. The Truth will be revealed to them, and they will carry this word on. For the spirit of freedom in infinite God’s Love will be much stronger in them than servility before the consciousness of satan’s servants. Although the system will resist the Truth through its slaves, this will be pointless. For a person will already know that anyone who blasphemes the Truth

is a mortal slave of satan. Every day, people will grow in understanding. And many people will be glorified in the Spirit of Truth and deepen in cognition. And many will reunite with the Spiritual World during their lifetime. This will change the future, And the system’s plans will collapse. Because whatever plans the system would make, by their choice people will change everything. For those who are free in Spirit are also free in words, for their life is in God, and not in the slavery of satan. What has been said will go around the world and change

it. And billions of seekers will join millions of those who have come to know the essence. Thus, understanding the essence, people will expose the system. They will understand that the real enemy is not another person, the real enemy is the system. For the devil divides, While the Spirit unites. This will change people's understanding all over the world. This will make the world of people open. This will unite nations into one big family, and freedom of Spirit will reign among them. This is the end of the devil’s rule over people and the beginning of the spiritual

future of humanity. This is the end of the darkness of consciousness. People will unite in the name of spiritual freedom, Love and Truth. This will really lead to world peace, no matter how much the system resists. And the darkness will dissipate, and the sign will shine at the peak of the world. The sign that has returned the Truth to people, the sign that dispels the darkness of consciousness, the sign that embodies the union of a human being with God. Then, people will know that the human enemy is defeated. And the Spirit of unity of the

Spiritual World will reign in everyone who gains It. People will attain peace in themselves, peace in God. And everyone will become a witness of a new understanding. And this will change everything. Humanity still has to go through a lot, but this no longer matters. When you live in God’s Love, the system’s illusion has no power over you because God lives in you.