well Tulsi gabard has just pulled an about face flip-flopping on her position on the warrantless wiretapping of Americans according to reports this week telsey Gabbert who was once a member of Congress of course and pushed to repeal section 702 of the foreign surveill uh foreign intelligence surveillance act fisa now says that she will support it why the flip-flop um so is it now okay to just spy on Americans something she spoke out so vociferously against what happened to her spine on this issue what happened uh to John Ratcliffe what is his position on all of
this we'll get to that part in a second but let's ask someone who's very outspoken on the government spying on Americans that is Cia whistleblower John kiraku who John told the truth about what our intelligence agencies were doing during the Iraq War for telling the truth President Obama went after him and had him charged put in prison yes John went to jail for exposing the CIA so CIA whistleblower John kiraku joins us now John great to see you welcome to the show thanks so much for having me my pleasure so first let's talk about Tulsi
we'll get to John Ratcliffe in a second here I think most of the as you know I think you rightly point out most of the attention has been on Tulsi um she's been very outspoken of course against section 702 all her time in Congress really against spying on Americans and by the way she was she was targeted by the NSA it's it's an unbelievable sort of turn of events here that she would be heading up the dni when you heard this sort of flip-flop what was your immediate response to that my immediate response was one
of disappointment but I happened to be uh with a couple of friends of mine who are involved in the Trump transition team when I heard this news and they said wait a minute wait a minute let's think about this for a second tela's one of only two possibly three Trump appointees who may be in some trouble in the Senate the others being Bobby Kennedy and perhaps Pete hegseth she may have done this she may have carried out this flipflop on 702 just to Plate Republican Senators who otherwise would be very happy to vote in favor
of her confirmation and then that would allow her to flip back and now that would be a little bit um it would be a little bit hypocritical but you know this is Washington and people do what they need to do in order to save their their careers and their nominations I hope that that's the case because Telsa has been one of the very few voices in government in either party um to support the the liberty and constitutional freedoms freedoms of Americans that have been guaranteed to us in the Constitution remember Not only was it illegal
to spy on Americans until Barack Obama signed the National Defense authorization Act of uh of 2012 thus allowing NSA to spy on Americans but it's actually a part of NSA case Charter that it is forbidden from spying on Americans we just pretend that that doesn't exist anymore so I'm I'm hoping that this was just kind of a cynical move to Plate some Republican Senators until after the vote and then we'll see what happens when 7 and2 actually comes back up for reauthorization I'm not I mean I'm not confident in in in in at all and
you're just allowing this to proliferate um we've talked at length here on the show about how innocent Americans are caught up in this web this overly broad system can you talk a little bit about how bad this really is I mean Americans if they're sitting there and their eyes are glazing over they're going about their day I mean this is this violates the United States Constitution does it not it absolutely does violate the constitution and remember Americans who are being spied on have no idea that they're being spied on when when the government goes to
the FIS Court uh to get a warrant uh on to to spy on an American citizen that citizen has no idea that this warrant has been issued that citizen is not permitted to defend himself before the fisa court the the government is under no obligation to tell this American that he's even being looked at for having committed a crime let alone a national security crime so there's literally no defense that is permitted to be mounted and on top of all that the fisa court has denied uh approval to less than 1% or on less than
one% of the cases that have been presented to it so not only do you have no idea that the government is intercepting your phones uh your phone calls intercepting your your uh emails and your text messages even if you did you wouldn't be allowed to defend yourself it doesn't I mean it sounds like something out of North Korea right yeah it's unamerican so are you confident in any capacity I you sound a little hopeful that maybe they're just doing some maneuvering here that when push comes to shove and this comes back up again that tulsy
gabard will put her foot down well you know friends accuse me of being irrationally hopeful and I I hope that they're wrong in this case I will say that out of just about anybody who could have been chosen for this job telsey Gabbert is pretty much the only person who has ever expressed any serious reservations about section 702 and so you know I I I wrote a piece when she was first uh named as the new dni saying that this was an inspired choice this was this was somebody who many of us for whom civil
liberties are important could rally around I would hate to see her beaten down whether it was from the right or the left on something that that is so critical to civil liberties and civil rights I hope she's able to stand up and I hope that she can rally Republicans in the Senate because she doesn't need to win a single Democratic vote to be confirmed she only needs to keep the Republicans together she could lose two or three Republican votes three if we then go to vice president Vance uh for a tiebreaker so there's a little
bit of wiggle room and I'm hoping that whatever it is she's promising these uh these Senators whether it's to to change her position on 702 or to give 702 a a harder look whatever it is she's telling them I hope that that's enough we mentioned John Ratcliffe of course Trump named John Ratcliffe as the new CIA director he also headed up the dni for a short stint uh where where does he come down on 702 that's a great question uh in the very beginning when 702 was first written back in uh what was it October
of 2001 he was uh as a private citizen he says he was opposed to 702 when he was finally elected to congress he voted in favor of 702 a couple of times although he did express some reservations now every two years since 702 was implemented it gets slightly fewer votes in Congress I hope that that Trend continues if somebody like John Ratcliffe who's highly respected on both sides of the aisle even if Democrats don't necessarily agree with his policies they like and they respect the man and they believe that he's qualified uh to do the
job as CIA director I hope that he can be one of those leaders who can go back to Capitol Hill and say 72 is a problem 702 is probably unconstitutional we need to take another look at it we we talk often here on this show how how corrupt and dangerous and scary the CIA is is add in the FBI you know all too well uh you know calling blowing the whistle on the CIA and their crimes the Obama Administration went after you um where do you think the CIA sits in all of this now is
is the CIA able to be fixed or is it too far gone honestly I think it's too far gone and the the problems are multifold um first of all Donald Trump is going to be president for four years but the moment he puts his right hand up in the A on inauguration day he's a lame duck and if you look at the leadership of the CIA the the Civil Service leadership of the CIA those people have been there for 25 years 30 35 years in some cases and they know that they can outweight this President
just like they can outweight every president and so if there's an order that comes down from the from the Oval Office that they don't like they can ignore it or they can slow roll it and delay it until Donald Trump just simply isn't the president anymore that's what I fear that they're just going to marginalize Donald Trump like they've marginalized other presidents that they didn't like that's the real danger but if you're going to have real change in this first of all you have to have you have to have oversight committees in the Senate and
the house that have the guts to actually Implement that change and order that change and I think the place has to be torn apart that's what I'm hopeful will happen in the FBI with cash Patel as the Director the place has to be torn down to the bare studs and rebuilt I say the same thing about the CIA John great to see you thank you for your bravery in all of this um you know I know you were right at the end the tail end of the last Trump Administration and there was big push obviously
to try to get you a pardon um side jul Julian Assange you know I remember my friend Tucker um that night doing really an impassioned message it was like a direct message from Tucker to Donald Trump like you need a pardon God bless Tucker Carlson yeah God bless Tucker Carlson he's one of the few that had the guts to go on the record supporting supporting a pardon and you know I like to think that I've got I've got some pretty high placed friends in the Trump Administration and uh I'm excited about what the next four
years have to offer and here on unified television you know this is a a Network that has long supported whistleblowers and has given whistleblowers a venue to speak truth to power so there are a lot of things I'm very grateful for right now well it's amazing I think it's a new era that we can hear from people like you who are you know U you know holding truth to power and being able to spread these messages about the these corrupt these corrupt government uh politicians and these organizations inside the government we can hopefully clean this
deep St out once and for all John great to see you thank you for your bravery thanks for your thanks for your time today we appreciate it thanks so much the pleasure is all mine good to see you
