Jocko Podcast 477: "There's No Freedom In The Facade. With Martial Artist and Mentor, Jason Wilson

This is Joo podcast number 477 with Eko Charles and me Joo willink good evening Eko good evening they pulled my grandfather out of the vehicle and dragged him away as onlookers did nothing the men beat him so savagely that the bones in his face and head shattered they attacked him until the blood disguised him his swollen eye sockets and torn flesh took away his Identity generations of hate came to bear on my grandfather until he was unrecognizable on Monday July 4th my brother Larry wasn't in his bed a mother's intuition can prove to be unnerving

and Discerning Mama Tried to stay calm but in her growing restlessness she began calling around no no one had seen him no one had heard from him he had vanished Larry's body was discovered by A couple of fishermen in the bellile shallows the scream of a mother whose child has been murdered and thrown away like trash is enough to turn your blood cold there's nothing you can compare it to it begins in a place so deep it's difficult to reach until it surges Beyond physical mental and emotional limits your heart explodes into a million pieces

and it feels as if the soul dies with It on November 6 1993 my mind was on my brother Keith a spattering of commercials flew across the screen along with Prime Time shows and a random news update the report told of a body of a man found in an abandoned van on the east side that's Keith I yelled then fell to my knees crying inconsolably Keith had been kidnapped tortured and Murdered I couldn't believe what I was hearing what I was feeling I had just spoken to him I could hear his voice in my ears

and see him sitting behind the wheel of his truck doing business on his phone one more brother of mine dead someone's Idol someone's enemy and those right there are some excerpts from a book called cry like a man which is written by Jason Wilson as you can tell from those Excerpts Jason Wilson faced many challenges growing up the types of challenges that make many men turn down the wrong path the Demonic path that destroys people and ruins their souls but fortunately Jason was able to break away from that path and get on another path the

righteous path and he's helped thousands of people do the same thing Through his books cry like a man battlecry and his most recent book The Man the moment demands Master the 10 characteristics of the comprehensive man he's an author he's the founder and director of the cave of AD delum transformal Academy transformational Academy he's the star of the Lawrence Fishburn produced documentary called the cave of AD dullum and he's a lifelong martial artist and Fin Last but not least a husband and a father and a man of faith and it's an honor to have him

with us here tonight to share his experiences and Lessons Learned Jason thanks for joining us thanks brother uh very moving uh introduction yeah so but thank you I'm honored to be here long time coming yeah it was interesting as as you know when I saw you back in the day when when your videos started to get really popular and I started to see You and I started to think you know what's this guy's background where'd he come from and I didn't you know I kind of made some assumptions but I didn't explore it too much

and it wasn't until you were actually scheduled to come here and I listened to you on Rogan and so I heard some I heard some of the stories but again you know when you when you talk stories it's a little bit different than when you when you actually write them Down what happened and so reading your books getting ready for this podcast I would say it definitely I I I ass I assumed you had been through some rough stuff um and that's kind of how you were able to get on the path that you that

you finally got to but it was it is it's heavy it's heavy and you know it's funny before we hit record we were both talking about how you know dads sometimes you know I was telling You a story about my son when I was you know being an idiot with my son he who knows what little tiny infraction he did as a six or seven-year-old kid and who knows what kind of idiotic uh punishment I doled out on him or talking to I gave him but my wife pulled me aside and she says you know

he's not a seal right and I looked at her and I smiled because she was 100% right you know here I was with a six or seven-year-old kid literally in my mind Thinking he should be acting and behaving as a 27-year-old member of a seal platoon active duty ready for deployment like in my mind mind that's what is like you know this is attention to detail you can't forget that kind of thing she's like he's six what is that cartoon baby boss what is it the little boss baby yeah I haven't seen that one you

should watch it you a laugh from what you just told me Yeah uh yeah and then you know the other thing is as as I was thinking about that you know you read your book and there's there going to be things that happen to you it doesn't matter how old you are they don't you know you're G to have traumatic events happen in your life you're whether you're ready for him or not the world doesn't care the world's going to treat you like you're a active duty seal like you got all that resilience when you

might not yet so man Um awesome for I'm glad we could kind finally make this work out and um yeah do you ever see I think her name was Maria she had connected me with you 2016 when the video went viral okay and you sent some rash guards rash guards boys loved it I'm going to send you the picture I still have it from 201 I have that picture yeah but thank you man I mean that was the first time of me like reaching out to you and following you and many days you know when

you have Experienced such significant trauma there are many mornings you don't want to go you know your brain the trauma time travels now you know you don't think that you can make it because both of your brothers didn't and it was several videos actually I believe say I saved in my phone ofie um that helped me get going a few mornings and uh just wanted to thank you for that man yeah it's it really is very difficult you know I I've told this um talked about This before I wrote this book over here it's called

the discipline equals freedom field manual and it was coming out in October of 2017 and I was getting ready to do a tour I was going to New York going to do the big um I forget what they call it but it's a big press tour and then I was going to go to a bunch of different cities and do a bunch of book signings and all that kind of stuff and uh my best friend Seth uh he died in a in a parachute accident and you know just totally awful scenario but it at one

point like right after it happened maybe two days later I'm laying in my bed and it's around lunchtime and the book this book that I had written had shown up and it was there a stack of probably two cases of the book they're sitting on my on my desk and I'm laying in bed and it was just I was I I was very very distraught and I Normally don't feel very distraught normally I feel like I have a pretty good grip and for for a moment I really felt like I didn't have a good grip

on things and I actually have a a section in that book that I wrote about losing other friends and I thought to myself wait you need to go read your own book and I and I literally sat up walked over ripped the box open pulled one of those books out and I opened the section and I read it And it was it helped me so much you know it was almost as if someone else had written it was almost as if it was but I was that detached in that in that moment in time I

was that distraught and I just felt very um you know like the the the woe is me type attitude why is this happening why is this happening to me why why they why why did he have to go now had all those feelings and Then and then I I said okay and I opened up that book and I read that section and I said that's right you know you should be so thankful that you got to know him you should be so thankful that you have memories of him you should be so and I that's

the attitude that I took and and you should live to honor him and remember him every day but don't dwell on the past don't dwell on it so yeah it's even those you know these these videos that you have and the books that You have can help so many people because you you don't there's no there's no Google Maps for life right at least at least you're not pre-programmed you know someone's every once in a while got to go hey man try this yes or hey look over here or hey what think about this and

that that can be so helpful mhm constantly evolving as men I tell men that I work with especially younger men don't put a cap on manhood we're constantly evolving and growing I'm not A grandfather yet but when that happens I'm going lean into some other men who are grandfathers to learn but as soon as we put that cap on we can't grow anymore and that's one of the things about as us as men we want to master every aspect of life and to me it's always a blessing to be the student and to constantly learn

uh one of the worst position to be in is always the teacher you know I miss being a student and learning and growing and I believe that's the blessing one of the Greatest blessings in life and when you remove that as a man you can't grow anymore and so uh when my I lost my best friend in 2004 uh dropped dead on a job that uh we had contracted I was a towel Setter he was just sweeping the floor Big D was perfect shape one of only four men in Powerhouse Gym Highland Park Michigan who

prester 200 lb dumbbells cyborg cyborg he would rep 315 20 reps on the bench and he was sweeping and thankfully I wasn't there um but my best friend who who contracted the job and subbed me as the tow Setter was there darl was sweeping and all of a sudden he just fell over and my friend is a former police officer he was trying to give him CPR he wouldn't revive race to the hospital and to see my best friend super like strong massive physique lifeless I was just like you uh jao I was it was

like the scene in The Matrix when Morpheus uh thought Neil was dead he was Just looking at the screen like this can't be true when I lost my best friend I never got an argument with him our entire friendship uh I met him at Powerhouse I said hey I want to look like that guy this who I need to hang with and he loved music and so since I was producing was a natural Kindred there and he became like a big brother and I was very depressed for I would say months man I would call

his phone just to hear his voic mail cuz they hadn't Turned it off yet and so I definitely would like to read your book because I find myself in the gym cuz he was my gym partner I stopped lifting weights man there was no reason to and that's when I realized it wasn't the weight training it was the camaraderie that we like especially in martial arts Jiu-Jitsu whatever it's the camaraderie that we really love and to lose that man I remember I was trying to do uh what it call the U the squats where you

hold the Dumbbell in front of you go goblet squats and I picked up the way that I could normally do fairly easy got overwhelmed with emotion sat down on the bench and just wept bitterly thinking about darl like he's not here anymore and I know if he was if he could like be there in that moment he would say hey man I'm good but keep pushing through and I I was able to work through that but thankfully uh I'm a comprehensive man I don't I don't fear uh men seeing Me shed tears anymore um I

grew up where you had to wear the facade and you had to be tough you had to practice looking hard um but I found that the majority of us as men we repressed the anger the trauma then we became uh Thugs and I made an acronym for it uh traumatized human unable to grieve and this is why you get bumped into you're ready to fight you can't process your emotions in real time so that you can basically keep yourself in advantageous Position and I uh at that moment I realized like Hey Big D you know

he's not here but I wasn't allowing myself to have new friends man M and I realized like wait a minute there's more men just like me who need men like me and I I allowed myself to open up and have that and but I definitely would want to get your book man because you know uh when you're always seeming like everyone's everything you're like man who toes the tow truck you know what I mean and I had To learn first and foremost that it was God for one cuz the heaviest things that I deal with

most of my friends like dude I can't take some of the trauma you've been through Jay today you know cuz everyone has their own problems but to uh realize that there are men around they may not be as big as the big tow truck that pulls me but they're there they're the guys that hey look I can change the tire I can I can get your oil changed I'm here for you and as men We got to be open for that support man yeah um let's get into uh let's get in this book a little

bit just to kind of go into your background and and growing up and stuff um so this is the book cry like a man uh you say it was 1953 when my mother Edam Marie married a man named Sinclair senior a raging alcoholic who beat her when he needed an excuse to vent which was often there in Fort Lauderdale Florida she gave bth birth to my two Brothers Sinclair Jr and Larry they were her emotional Refuge until they became also became targets of their father's impulsive anger through his physical abuse would though his physical abuse

would come and go usually with the contents of the bottle in his hand the mental wounds he inflicted sank deeper than his fists could ever hope to reach for nine long years they endured his random cruy so that's kind of how it started Off your mother eventually and again get this book it's a great book um I'm going to kind of hit some of the wave TOS your mother eventually gets the courage to leave um files for divorce and then she met your dad Oliver Wilson Jr they get married in 1967 moved to Detroit in

December of that year um she's uh and so now you get your brothers and it seemed like they were a little bit uh kind of like opposites Complet is that accur so Larry was like a social butterfly St Clair is like very serious and focused um and then your mom gets pregnant with you 1969 she gets pregnant with you in the winter you're born in uh August 21st 1970 yes sir so and then you got Sinclair and again it's it's really cool to read the book uh you got Sinclair who's smart he's studying hard everyone

thinks he's going to go and become uh you know the boardroom Somewhere he's going to be very successful Larry on the other hand is into music he's playing music he's making music he's you say he was fluting Melody yes yes he actually his high school he went to Central in Detroit Michigan he created the first marching band from what I was told I did a lot of research when writing that book and I have a picture of him as the band major and so Larry was uh definitely you know Everyone wanted to be around him

which is why the drug dealers at the time wanted to use his influence to push drugs and when he wanted to get out there was no way out and I was interesting when I was writing that chapter about my brother's father Sinclair said I actually he wished I would have told more cuz how evil he was like I said well bro I can't just you know spend the whole chapter on it but he told me that I I believe I shared it In there that his father would slapped them with the flat sze of butcher

knives at the dinner table would randomly shoot his gun in the house and that's just from what my brother told me is just scratching the surface of what he had to endure and Larry had to endure and so as a result of that my brother had to deal with a lot of trauma man it was unresolved you know could you imagine a father just beating your mother senseless like a sack of meat you know And so much so I remember my brother I said you don't want a family and cuz my brother's very attractive the

women like Sinclair and he says I want to kill my father and the best way to do it is not continue his lineage that was so heavy for me when he said that and just to to see that my brother was able to make he 70 years old now and I praise God for him because he's the one who feared for my life because when Larry died he said it felt Like I was reincarnated Like Larry reincarnated in me the attitude the anger uh everyone wanting to hang with me so Sinclair was the brother muso

yeah yeah there you go that's a great one and he would take me to see a pastor at like seven years old just to get anointed every Wednesday cuz he feared me he feared for my life and I gotten some things and could have lost my life probably three or four times but stclair is the main reason um I would say I'm Where I am now his influence he wasn't as preachy as he was one who modeled it um but for what he's gone through like intergenerational trauma is really real it gets in our DNA

and my mother all of her siblings after my grandfathers beating and lynching um I would say four of them developed dementia h you know because the brain isn't meant to hold on to all of this anguish and distress and Trauma and when it happens you know eventually You break down and my mother had a mental breakdown twice and at that moment I said man I don't want to ever hold on to what I've been through I want to let this go so that I could stop this intergenerational trauma that has happened to our family yeah

that's that's the feeling I got from the book and and you know I Breeze through it but your grandfather Estus right am I saying that correctly so he was down in Florida yes and was a black Dude down in Florida in what 1935 yes and he sounded like he had a sounded like he was a pretty sound like he had an attitude right he was not going to let people push him around he just wanted to be human yeah just wanted to be treated like like a man he wasn't the one that would stand in

the colors's only line when his family needed food he would go in the white only line and make sure his family had the food they need he wouldn't he wasn't scared to fish in Areas where black men couldn't fish he would carry his little I think it was a 38 or 32 and he would get approached and he would pull his gun out he says I'm a human this is you know this isn't just a place for you to fish and because of that it it cost him his life actually Coen pow was a book

called The Golden 13 my great uncle was one of the first black Navy uh no yeah Navy men in history yeah the golden dir 13 Coen pow wrote it and um he tells the story of my Grandfather's lynching in that book and to hear the racial Terror as he described it after my grandfather's lynching the police came and wanted to make sure there would never be another esus right to rise up in our family and they would they grabbed my uncle one day and literally drove him insane drove him around Florida not trying to kill

him but just to make sure that he would be in a place mentally where he would never try to be like my grandfather and as a Result of that man that trauma stayed in our family was almost like a a secret that wasn't supposed to be shared until that book came out I didn't know about it and um to have that type of History you know in my family of course is great you know how these 13 black men studied to make uh the Navy um but um to hear and see what happened to my

grandfather and the way it was told as a grown man so you didn't know about that grown up I never met him I Never met my grandmother and your mother your mother never mean I met my grandmother on my mother's side but my par grandparents on my father's side my mother never shared it she it was could you imagine how heavy that was they were ostracized by their own black community because everyone was scared that it would happen to them and so imagine growing up as a child in that type of environment your father gets

beaten and lynched by the police who supposed to Protect you and then they come back to get your uncle to drive him insane to drive a point that we don't ever want this to happen again and my uncles and aunties held that pain M and um you know I always wondered why my mother would always be nervous and I thought it was just because of Larry you know his murder when I was 3 years old but it traveled back to the Deep South and being uh an outcast amongst your neighbors and it Wasn't even your

fault MH you know and so uh growing up seeing your mother have a nervous breakdown on a living room couch in your 20s I didn't know what to do man you know I'm just sitting there and just Mama I'm here for you she literally lost her mind in that moment and I had to admit her into a psych War [Applause] um I wonder how that you know had you known about your grandfather growing up how that would have impacted your life You know what kind of what kind of attitude would you have how would that

have impacted your attitude because I know you know I see here and hear that story and you're like you're thinking oh someone did that to one of my one of my relatives yes you know like that's a kind of anger that can be difficult to forgive yeah you know I I share that as well you know I could have easily been Prejudice you know um but thankfully I've had uh numerous uh friends and Family who didn't look like me different ethnicity who uh prove that um all people aren't the same and I remember many times

my mother would be in need and people of different backgrounds would come in support and help and because I had that type of balance uh my heart didn't go cold um even though my mother never forgiv the men who did that I I was able to help her forgive the man who killed uh my brother and her son which Liberated her and what was deep man I that I'm thinking about this my mother never experienced peace until she got dementia until dementia caused her to forget and finally she had this space where wo I could

stay in a moment and because my brother was murdered uh when I was three my mother's heart just checked out for a moment and if not for our neighbors supporting her she wouldn't even I mean uh lady who used to babysit me had to come and wash my mom Larry was she loved Larry like you know she loved Sinclair as well um but Larry was you know outgoing and and when that happened happened it it just it tore a hole in our family she said when I was three I would run to the door Larry

Larry and it was never him and that's why we had to move and but when she forgot my mother became what I missed as a child because she couldn't give me the affirmation she couldn't give me the Affection and brother I didn't realize I needed it or missed it until I realiz I saw that I couldn't be affectionate to my own wife and my therapist was like well who when you injured your S Young who would get the Band-Aid who would put the peroxide on you and I said well I would my mother would just

tell me where everything was and then my brother told me yeah we she she was checked out and so that not having that nurturing that affection made it easier For me to try to conform into a thug I never could wear that suit it was too small for me really I had a really always had a big heart U but in my community you had to pick who you want to be with you know so that you can not survive but that you won't get rushed or beat down or always your stuff taken from you

man um but yeah so just an interesting Journey but I've just learned you know when we can release it man we really can find Freedom there Yeah uh getting into Larry a little bit he got kicked out of the house like his junior year went down to Florida um called up called up your dad and said hey can I get a chance come back and he comes back and then he so he comes back and he gets a full ride scholarship uh he's back in Detroit he gets a full ride scholarship to Florida A&M University

and it's a as a music Major yes so he has talent he has skills you write about in the book how your mom was finally Like you see this is my boy you know this she's so proud of him and then you know like like I opened up with the podcast asked um he disappears for a couple days they find him in a lake uh you say here the autopsy revealed that no water had entered Larry's lungs which meant he was dead before going into the river Larry was an expert swimmer on high school team

so the thought of him drowning was absurd rumors abounded that he was thrown from bellile bridge while His girlfriend would later say that he owed money to the guys in the caddy our house felt different emptier my brother Larry was gone swallowed up by the stealthy but lethal undercurrents of Detroit notorious for rushing young men to their deaths without the facts of his murder closure was impossible the sun still Rose in the morning and set at night but the abrupt end to his life kept the porch light perpetually Burning yeah that's another strange thing like

you were just talking about when you don't know what happened to him why it happened so your mother can never I mean even if she had a target of of anger you know this group or this gang these people but it's just nothing it was we never knew my father he would Gamble and he heard you know some stories when they would Gamble and um he never really shared it with my mother he told me one day um and I remember my Mother would always compare like she put Larry on the pedestal man like he

was perfect and so I always felt inferior never good enough till one day my father I told him he was a barber he says you know what I'mma come over after work he comes over um sits down in the living room man and he says uh it's time to tell the truth Marie talking to my mother and he said Larry wasn't [ __ ] he said you know it and I know it he caused you a lot of Hell which is why we had to Move him to Florida which I never knew and in that

night it made my brother human which was very special because I thought he was just perfect and sin Clair my brother never really shared everything but I knew something was wrong cuz he was so scared for me I'm like well wait a minute now all of this is making sense and so although we never got closure to know that just like me I made some decisions that could have cost me My life thankful for God's grace I'm here that's what happened to my brother and was interesting um the boys in the cave of ad dullum

I baptized them when they professed that Christ is their savior I baptized them in the Bellow rivers and I says wow these rivers that took my excuse me these rivers that took my brother's life uh I now give them eternal life through Christ and so uh the closure is in moving forward you know it's like we May not know all the answers I don't even the guys never were caught but I know uh justice has has been served somehow you know um but to see that I had all of his giftings and personality it's like

a piece of him still lives on yeah and then you had uh the other side of the spectrum was was Sinclair so Sinclair he goes off to Tuskegee University which we done a podcast on Booker D Washington we read through the book Up From Slavery outstanding and he Comes home home from Tuskegee and he is he he finds Jesus yes down there he really found Jesus and he he said you say here in the book their Bible studies prayer alliances Church time and worship Services centered around their dearest Confidant the Creator and ruler of the

universe the one who laid down his life for Sinclair more than 2,000 years ago their bond was immediate with a strength that only blood spilled on your behalf can provide When Sinclair finished the year at Tuskegee he brought his new best friend home with him the holy and radical Spirit saturated everything he did he countered the norm living the example of what a true man of the most high should be instead of zodiac signs and naked women on his walls he found refuge in church and his new friends there during an era of PE Funk

and Soul music Sinclair blasted his room with with church music Andre Crouch instead of the Funkadelic my mother would yell for him to turn down that Jesus music I jokingly asked her mom what's wrong with playing God's music loud she laughed unable to give me a good reason there was one name scrolled in Stars across the ceiling of s Sinclair's room the same stars shining brightly so many nights as I lay on his bed staring up at them a name like like no other Jesus yeah so there's the other end of the spectrum yes and

isn't it crazy that You can have two brothers abused so viciously and they take two different different paths absolutely and it's important for parents to remember that yes that your kids I say this all the time your kids aren't going to be who you want them to be they're going to be who they are absolutely you can you can nudge you can nudge the course a little bit but you can't steer the train yeah and I often say too they don't listen to what we say they watch what we Doh and a Lot of the

challenge is is getting out of us out of them what they learned from us and that's the one of the greatest challenges as a parent and uh what was interesting my father played a major role as well when Larry died like in support of my mom and just financially funding the funeral I remember Sinclair's Dad tried to get in the limousine with us and my father said my father's a very serious man he says you get in this car you will not Live and my father he was well respected and his word was bond in

Detroit and I respect at that stance as a father coming into such trauma and saying look you're you're you're the cause of a lot of this you know cuz Larry wanted the relationship so did my brothers and a lot of boys we gravitate toward other father figures drug dealers in my community and they become the mentor and that's what happens when the father isn't there isn't active or is there and Isn't a good man isn't a good father and so my father came and he at that time my brother just bragged about my dad he

knew a different side of my father than I knew but he would brag about my father and work ethic and care and just how strong he was but to hear that story I could imagine my father just he wasn't the one to be played with and for you not to pay a dime for your son's funeral and expect to ride with the family he wasn't having it no it didn't happen Uh now your dad this you know Larry's death caused disruption in your with you between your mom and dad you already talked about your mom

that the way that traumat traumatized her and they end up getting divorced 1976 you say had I known then that my life through the Tangled weeds and overgrowth of disappointment would eventually be paired and pruned into Garden into a garden of blessings maybe it wouldn't have mattered so much but boys Instinctively look to their makers their fathers for answers and when there are none to be found this is what you were just saying when there are none to be found they fill the void with what's available if only we could set our sights a little

higher we could see that our maker is with us from our very first step to our last breath so yeah that's kind of the mode you get into yeah and uh I remember when I was told by both of them my father and My mother that they were getting divorced I was 6 years old didn't know why and my father was stoic he said you know uh I'm not going to be here son but I'll be able to visit you and as a child we interpret we can't process yet our brains aren't fully mature and

in I work with the cave of adum that's why I'm able to get out of them because I understand you don't understand you're trying to interpret everything that's happening so as the Adult I need to be the mature one here the brain doesn't mature until we 25 so here it is my father saw no emotion but you're about to leave your son what is that conveying to me what messages are going through my brain oh he really never cared this man isn't even crying you just said that you're not going to be here with me

anymore you didn't share it one tier no empathy and that's the problem when we've allowed I guess the adjective of masculinity to Define us as Human men that we're much more than that which is why I wrote that one that you know I got to be a protector and provider like it's in a in us for us to be Fighters and protectors but what happens to the rest of my life where are the other characteristics that make me whole like being a nurturer um some of the greatest cultes are nurturers farmers you know where what

about the gentleman you know shivery isn't dead that was a cold of Honor for the Medieval Nights how did we somehow get to the place where it's pandering to women then when I discovered that the alpha male was a myth there is no battle between two wolves to see who lead the wolf pack and that in a human sense that the alphas are a married couple leading a family so much is missed so many men missed the moment and we blow it and now we have all these regrets because we didn't meet the moment because

we only Allowed ourselves to be the doers the providers protectors what about the friend what about being fully there as the lover what does that mean outside of sex for us what about even loving ourselves so I don't even say self-love anymore because we can't even we understand what that mean as men so I say self-maintenance and now like oh it clicks cuz I know how to maintain my car that we can do yeah we can do that well even even though was interesting the Word vulnerable I when I first went through the manuscript of

this book I start seeing the word vulnerable a lot in the man the moment demands and as I was praying the Holy Spirit was like go look up that word like you looked up masculinity and help men liberate even more so again when I studied that masculinity is just attributes traditionally ascribed the man is strength boldness and aggression and I see that you know Harriet Tubman Mother Teresa whomever uh they had to have masculine attributes at one moment but then when I looked at the word v vulnerability like is this what we want men to

be vulnerable no cuz you're susceptible to Danger harm or even death this is why it's so hard for men to embrace that word so we're trying to teach men and warriors is to be emotionally open or transparent you know don't repress your emotions because when you do you Increase your chances of dying from all causes by 70% that's insane MH because we're repressing all of these feelings because we want to appear strong perpetually yeah yeah a distinction I often have to make so I talk a lot about the fact that you can't let your emotions

drive your decision-making process right and so I'll say that to people all the time and then someone will you you know ask a question or I'll find myself needing to Make the point and the way I describe it is I say this doesn't mean that you remove emotions from the calculus you can't take them out of the calculus they're there and if you don't account for him even if you know if you work for me and you just got done with a 18- hour shift and I I barked at you cuz we were backordered on

something I yelled at you and so now you're already a little bit mad and now I got to call you and say hey Jason I Need you to come in to work again today if I don't account for your emotions and I go hey Jason you got to be at work at 7 o'clock today you're you're going to quit but if I say hey Jason listen I know I was sharp with you yesterday we had a lot going on and it hasn't let up we we got a bunch of clients that are coming in we

got a bunch of orders that we got to can you come and help me out I really need you I can put the calculus of your emotions and my emotions into The into the to figure out how to behave so it's important you know and I this I've heard you talk about that and I read about it is like in your books emotion and you I see with your videos with the kids right hey you can you can be emotional right now cuz you're we're safe right now now you're out there on the street it's

not the time to get emotional you you're in a dangerous situation it's not the time to get emotional you got to make a decision What to do with your finances I really want that new Cadillac Escalade right that's an emotional decision that's an emotional decision and so we end up with a $1,800 a month uh payment on a car you need a Cameron you need a Cameron you just convicted me man so I was just looking at that truck this morning but to the emotional Point man you know I trained under Vietnam vet uh kajana

shes and he would use not bladed edged Weapons but knives that were real knives without a blade just to get to the emotion cuz a lot of times when we train like he dull them down so they weren't sharp yeah but you could still get cut as you know and so which was extreme don't get me wrong um but we learned a lot because he says what's missing in training is the emotions so you can practice all the techniques in the world but when it was really real that's when you see it go out the

door so fast cuz You haven't trained in that environment what's the saying in Jiu-Jitsu uh punch a black belt he turns into a brown belt punch a brown belt he turns into a purple right on down go yeah and so what he would say he would grab a knife he says if I come at you with this and you do this you're dead mhm that's all it takes so he trained us to embrace death you're not going to not get cut even if your uncle is cooking barbecue he should be able to cut you one

time the problem With a lot of knife training they are like you're not going to get cut he wanted us to face that like if he stab you you embrace you hold it in so he don't stab you anymore and then you deal with him and I appreciated that training because I'm able to take it off in life when my students have an emotional moment or we call a moment on the mat in the cave in that moment let's Rel let's release this let's Express what's going on where is this really coming from now Let's

reset because not just in life in training you can't hold on to that emotion so our principle is called let go of the blow if I'm fighting you and I hit you and your your thoughts and emotions are still there on the fact that I hit you I'm hitting you again and again and again again and again and again yeah so we have to practice letting go of the blow and training letting go of the choke letting go of the argument letting go of the offense So that we can keep moving forward and that's why

I love martial arts and we were talking about so many black belts in the gym but so many white belts in life it's meaningless if it can't apply to real life for me it is yes for sure you know uh we have a a concept called combat communication which I learned under kajana as well you see it in the UFC you're fighting or when guys grappling you trying to see what they know what their response to so I'm Downloading oh he does this okay I shoot for here oh he okay I see now then you

see his strengths and you see his weaknesses when I'm communicating with my wife it's the same thing when she's talking I'm downloading body language how what is she saying am I really hearing her heart or am I just listening to respond and so how is it that you can choke someone out or tap someone out in a matter of seconds but you can't even check your own emotions so that you can Communicate with your wife and your children how do you give the world your best and then give and come home and give your family

the less and I I learned that's another principle I learned we were training and fighting emotions to your point just finish drywalling a bathroom cuz I'm about to towel it I'm tired coming and training and I come in and uh kajana says to me he says how you doing young man I says I'm all right I'm tired though he says Really he says you you'll be fine this was the worst day for me to tell him I'm tired because instead of the class being packed it was just me and one another student so you know

what that means you got an hour and a half of work nonstop it was a trail of sweat up and down the floor with us training striking and everything I learned in that moment he's after class I had more energy than I ever thought I would have because I was Worn out after class I put my clothes on he says are you tired now I says no he says did you get what I was teaching you I said yes he says so when is the best time to be tired I said when I'm at home

I'm about to go to sleep and so again to your point I can't be tired when I need to be a fighter I can't be tired when I need to be a provider I can't be tired when my children are running to me when I get home from work and they want my undivided attention I can't be tired When my wife says I didn't have a good day do you have room to hear what happened and so as men to be able to put that emotion to the side and transfer these Marshal skills that we've

learned into real life man it evolves us as men and and now we're like whoa it's more to life I'm evolving I'm not limited anymore but we have to then then dig deeper to why we restrain that heart the good in us and I Have a lot of friends as well I told him I was coming on here who are ex-marines and they uh like whoa I'mma listen to that but they struggle with PTSD one of my best friends Gabriel he every room he goes in man he's casing everywhere looking at entrances exits how he

hasn't let go of the trauma he's seen at at War and he also got shot in Detroit that trauma and because of that uh it's hard for him to to really let go and love and drop that guard but I'm Proud of him now man he bought a shih tzu and this is funny he's a man's man walking a shito and the guy yells to him uh he says man you need a real dog and gay responds he says uh when you're a real dog you only need a pet and I share that story man

the moment demands because as men everything is about the look this little [ __ ] zooo has helped my best friend alleviates so much trauma emotional loss and he finds Solace in this little dog Gizmo that goes everywhere with them for me I had Rott wallers you know German Shepherds bouier I always wanted a Conor Coro but at this stage in my life all that I've been through I bought a Cava poo because I what's a Cava poo King Charles y boy I feel like a scrub I hope you show the way you guys look

see this is why men don't want those dogs but anyway but anyway Caba poo is a King Charles cavalier and poodle mix Okay and so you guys are funny man what do you have Echo Charles uh my daughter and uh what is it Yorkie York your daughter has a you have a York we see you see you have a York I said yeah we have a y so what I need it man eeko was when I come home I love like big Breeze I do and I still feel you can play and you know have

the cuddle time you see it with the especially the bully breeds Shalom the Cavapoo my dog he helps me unpack The Compassion fatigue that I have with working with boys and men releasing theirs you know so when I come home he's running he's little he's cute he's colorly it does something to my my body and my mind and it helps me feel better and so I've seen man could you probably could do with a Rott waterer but for me in my life I needed what Gabriel needed something that's cuddly soft Gizmo and Shalom you know

and what's the name of your Yori your Yori Maya Maya yeah see May well actually what he's saying is actually correct where I mean I guess it depends on the dog's personality right A lot of it whatever where yeah if if you always have this big Burly like hell yeah badass dog it kind of is not compatible with kind of what you need sometimes you know it's like that's cool that he's like big badass or whatever but right now bro I just kind of want to cruise right now there you go that's real I got

a big uh I my German Shepherd Just died I know man but I got a new one I got a new one and man it was freaking awful when my German Che died and you know you think oh and you know my wife and I were like oh we're not going to get another one you I'm let my wife Drive the train you know like it's more on her you know she spends all day every day with the dog I travel dog's there I go to work dog's there I go to the gym dog's there

she's with the dog all day every day so I'm letting her kind of Dictate hey you know when when you're when you're ready you know whenever whenever you want we'll get another one and then I came home two days after he died so the way you go to my house you open the back gate and there's a slid and glass door and every day come home I open the gate and there's his silhouette the Big Ear sticking up and man I came home after 2 days I came home that dog wasn't there I was like

darling and she goes we can get another I like all right cool we went immediately we went out and got another one when you posted that man I I I prayed for you man because I know like when you have a dog man experience unconditional love like that man and then they're gone and now your ritual of what you do in the mornings is is different cuz he or she is man that's that's heavyweight were you able to release like how did you I know you cried all right how did you I mean Like I'm

not looking forward to that day with my dog like yeah it was terrible uh I mean you know and you're you're there I mean I was there when it took his La when he took his last breath it's it's it's awful um but you know he was filled with cancer and he wasn't going to like there was no there was no he was just going to suffer um yeah I Mean I was just like I said you know happy that I got to have him happy I got to spend time with him happy that he

was took care of my family and guarded my wife for and my kids for you know eight years and you know no nobody snuck up to my house no mail man Echo Charles knows this no mailman no Amazon delivery person no creep in the night no one no one would come to my house my house would be the last on your list of where you'd want to go and and and find Yourself cuz Odin is a big was a big awesome dog beautiful well trained perfect dog just awesome and yeah this is just terrible uh

and and you know I I feel like there's a there's chemical that gets released when you're with your dog was it oxytocin yeah oxytocin oh absolutely in the dog and in you like when you pet a dog you 15 minutes I think if you can get 15 minutes my dog won't allow me to hold him that long but But yeah they said uh my psychotherapist told me that you know and uh it's a major difference when I Shalom was next to me on the couch you know I I feel a lot better man you know

and I'm five times or maybe 10 times his size but it's amazing how comforting he is to me you know and I I have the same like you know Shalom isn't big but soon as someone come to the the door he's barking or in the vicinity then I go get the guns you know if I have to I Don't need a big dog I love like I had two German Shepherds oh yeah brilliant smart um the shedding was insane but I love German Shepherds man uh just keen and so loyal you know and so when

I saw that he was beautiful I said man I call I text Joe I said man you know I'm praying for jao that's a major loss man and so getting another one did that help a lot with the grieving 100% see 100% Nicole if you're listening y i I'll I'll tell you like I If he Wouldn't have died so suddenly we would have gotten another one and and you know had a transitional period where we had two dogs that's what I think we'll do in the future I got a real good friend Pete who's an

old Surfer guy great guy and he he has a German Shepherd he's had German Shepherd after German Shepherd I think he's had five of them you know living 10 to 10 to 15 years each and heartbreaking when you see he when his dogs the last one was named Rudy and when Rudy died You know he I talked to Pete and he said you know he goes like I got three months he goes I do three months to grieve and he goes then I'll go get another one and Rudy went everywhere I mean everywhere with Pete

sitting in the front of his Volkswagen bus Pete would go out and surf for two hours we'd sit there and watch him wow just a great dog yeah man but he would take three months so I kind of had that in my mind a little bit when Oden died I thought you know what 3 Months you know we'll grieve through this but man and my wife was heartbroken you know cuz it's all day every day with her and she's she's just a sweet the sweetest woman so you know that was she was heartbroken and it's

couple days went by and I I was looking at her she was just just look so heartbroken and I thought maybe I'll just bring it up and I said how about we she goes let's get another dog yeah so yeah thank god um so we got a little guy right now that's Awesome I saw him man he was at the gym with you or something yeah that's cool man I told my wife you know she says I want another one after Shalom so you say that now but you know our hearts probably we would need

another puppy yeah and by that time we'll be hopefully gives us 15 years and I'm 55 now so by that time the next puppy be the last boy we'll we'll go out together yeah man oh yeah uh so going back to you a little Bit here so St Clair ends up moving to Texas yeah um and and like you mentioned you're you're looking to fill the void right now this is I think where martial arts come in right yes so you get you get Bruce Lee Chuck Norris Jim Kelly you're you get Black Belt Magazine

you find Ninjutsu yes this is full 80s activity right straight 80s straight 80s activity right here ninja echo's in the game over here throwing stars yeah what what were those shoes called what were The little shoes tabies I think shoes with the toes so you like scale they call tabies yeah I think yeah yeah yeah I had some of those yeah you guys were deep I had everything yeah man dang so there's got to be there's some intrinsic male thing right you being in Hawaii me being in New England you being in Detroit yes like

for everyone to at least go oh yeah ninjitsu in the 80s we're all looking at that thing going there's something cool About that as a young man there's something cool about oh yeah man when they would throw the the the mask on and they would do the the symbols before training oh that's right oh man and I had I found one local instructor who uh allegedly knew Ninjutsu but then I come to find out no one at that time in Detroit new ninjitsu and so uh that's when I shifted from out of that but I

love the being stealth and hidden and uh the Mastery of weaponry and Um yeah ninjitsu was uh just definitely all 8s dominant yeah into the ninja and what was the other revenge of the Ninja what's name is show uh sh kugi I think that was his name he was in uh Ninja assassin he was the yeah he was the main uh Sensei or teacher shushi I believe that was his name see I can tell you I made the you know mentally in my mind it was like okay what's a ninja doing he's out there like

sneaking around killing people right it was very easy for me to Figure out when I was like 8 years old or whatever going okay that's what they used to be called a ninja and now they're a Green Beret or a Navy SEAL or a marine Recon you know I I I thought okay this is like a modernday ninja yes so I was able to make that little transition in my head oh like you're talking about weapons cool they give you weapons what's a modern Weapon It's not a bow and arrow anymore it's not a a

bow staff M it's an M16 so I kind of made that transition so so did you find places to train did you get to train were you learn the moves from did you order videos from what was the video what was the big video company there was a videos in like Black Belt Magazine Panther video Pan videos I just called it yes yes yes you could learn see back then we had the the video stores on the corner so we could go rent them you know so I never had to order we would go rent

the videos And we would practice but it was nothing like having a teacher and so when 1990 came that's when I found like Judo okay so you're in it was just it was completely different uh than what I was taught cuz it was physical it was touching it was no death touch or poking your eyes out it was you know you're going to sweat leaving here after class uh but was interesting my journey also took me to AI bujutsu under katsumi who was from Japan and he shared a story About the ninjas he said that

they were farmers first I don't know how accurate this is but he said sh shared that the shuriken or the ninja star actually was the part when you would like um teal the soil to break up the soil and it broke off one day and it's alleged the farmer grabbed and threw it out of frustration and it stuck somewhere it's like whoa and so I mean easy to believe I don't know how accurate is but he shared that they were farmers and that's how they Started did you ever hear about Capa Capa but Capa I

heard this that it was made to look like dancing cu the slaves weren't allowed to train didn't I tell you that did you tell me that I think I think Jeff higs told me that bro and he's actually a capoa guy well I had to study it and do a report on it in college for I think I told you cap hey look it is what it is but maybe Jeff HS told you but I told you that too I remember Telling it to you Jeff hick Jeff hick is the only person in life ever

to go from Brazilian jiu-jitsu to cap he started in Brazilian jiujitsu and he still does it but he he went into Capa and then it so is this in high school time period what right after well so it's interesting so when I was 12 years old that's when I started seeking ninjitsu at that time in my life a year later my best friend Kelly which I share also and cry like a man she was shot and killed we were in The eighth grade and um we had conflict with the neighboring school just real quick it's

like during class absolutely kid pulls out a little 25 automatic and he was just showing it off has an accidental discharge yeah and that's what happened and shot Kelly in the head and this was a close friend of mine and so think of back in 1984 we had no celor no therapists and we had to try to resolve this ourselves so I remember going home my mother again Another loss brought up a memory of Larry she's sitting there watching the news this is the number one story in Detroit and I'm in the backyard no one's

talking to me man all I had was ninjitsu I grabbed my shurikens and ninja stars and just start throwing them at the privacy fence in the trees just trying to release what I just saw because when it happened we thought it was a fight cuz all the kids out of the classroom ran down to our class my friend Gabriel The ex marine he stands in the doorway head back and I said what's wrong what happened who's fighting he says no one's fighting Jay Kelly just got shot so I went down to the room and the

teachers was just trying to control the entire like environment but to see Kelly in this pool of blood just on the floor and then you see the paramedics trying to revive her and then leaving the school and her mother uh we walking out of the school Our parents are waiting terrified and you see Kelly's mother banging her head on her stern wheel because the news found out before the paramedics could get there I never forgot that moment and for me martial arts was a release again my father was in the same city but wasn't very

active in my life he worked a lot you know um and so it was my outlet it was you know if I could put on a ninja suit just for A moment in the backyard and train it was my escape from more trauma more heartbreak more loss and with no counseling and no one understanding the father wound or you know trauma just want to give you medication yeah yeah that's one of the things that I think cuz our country the best country in the world but one of the problems when you have a country like

ours is that we take all these different uh cultures and bring Them together and when you bring a bunch of culture together sometimes some things get lost Sometimes some things get saved but one thing that I've noticed is that in other cultures they have a they have a protocol to deal with death yes sir so like oh we're going to someone dies little kid adult grandparent whatever we have a protocol that we're going to go through everyone's going to go we're going to say these prayers We're going to go to this place we're going to

go through this ceremony we're going to get done with that Ceremony this other ceremony we're going to go get together you know you pick your culture and they have a prot because humans are going to die and so over time people go okay so someone dies this is what we're going to do we're going to say these prayers we're going to go to this place we're going to cele in this way and in America like when Kelly dies There's no protocol for you you're a little kid in the backyard with a ninja star going what

do I do and I think that's a very troubling thing and look we have enclaves where a a church will have a protocol or uh a ceremony that you can go through but even that is a lot less clear than it used to be a hundred years ago yeah you know now the kid he went to the church for the one ceremony but he missed the other two and no no one tells him like oh yeah it's Yeah you're going to cry of course you're going to feel bad yep we're we're crying too they don't

see that no one go so it's problematic you know even like bereavement time you get from work that time is you was planning the funeral mhm so you never really get an opportunity to grieve in the Bible you have 30 days to grieve or longer mhm but now with everything on the go moving social media phone and bus and not too many of us want to sit still with what we are going Through or what we've been through and then we wonder why we hit the wall when we have nowhere to run you know and

so that's a very good observation you're absolutely right about that it's there's no room to grieve or to like hey I'm not feeling good today you know when we ask how are you doing it's like saying hello instead of really sincerely like hey no no bro how are you how are you really doing you know and I'm here I'm present I I got time let's talk you know I'll Listen to you and it's amazing when you get men together you know uh isolated and give them a safe space to say hey we can put down

the armor now let's let's deal with what really happens happening to us man men open up and break down because you know uh uh one of the engineers who recorded the audio book beautiful brother man uh children on the Spectrum and he was sharing with me that he was watching the son just trying to do something that we take for granted Every day as normal brush his teeth and he saw his son struggling just to accomplish it and he broke down and I said wow I'm thinking about men like him who drive to work every

day and that's their life and they have to fake it and smile and act like everything's okay I'm good bro and they're hurting and I gave him the space just to talk and it just lifted so much from him and that's what our culture is is Missing like I tell men all the time we can't get rid of our masculine attributes then now we're in a deficit there all I'm advising like look let's experience life more Brothers you're not tired of living you're tired of not living and if you're only a provider and protector that

means your whole life is performance-based so when I can no longer provide I feel that I'm no longer of any good this is why when you see an elderly couple out the woman is able to Move around freely but the man is walking on a crutch or a cane can barely move because his existence was in doing instead of being and and that's what I I want to offer men especially my friend Gabriel he says Jason you got to help the vets and men who are military because again when you're you know you're over there

he was telling me they were playing basketball and in this moment you have this like piece then the ball goes off to the side and you see a Uh AK-47 or not AK-47 AR-15 you're reminded of war and you go back and it's constantly this reminder and you really can't release it he says so now your whole mind is geared to stay in fight or flight and then when you come home you're still stuck and so for him to share that with me and how just him even reading some of my books helped him to

like process what he's repressed and why it's so difficult for him to release anger and he's always combative I said You're still holding on to the past as you said earlier but if you don't give a man the freedom to feel like no man is fearless I forgot the one uh soldier who ran in in the midst of gunfire to save a little Afghan girl he said it wasn't courage it was love he says my love for that little girl birth a courage he says I got to have fear cuz without fear there is no

room for courage he said if I'm not scared of losing anything where does courage exist he say so it was love That motivated me to run and save that little girl in that moment he had the freedom to feel so many of our boys regardless of ethnicity we're programming them to be Fearless but what happens when they should respect it meaning you probably shouldn't drink that because you know what you were told there's probably something in there because of this party or I had a kid who wanted to join the cave beautiful young kid he

knew he shouldn't have been at a Party where it was a rival gang okay these kids were jealous of him he went anyway I get a call Monday morning he shot and killed beautiful he didn't have an opportunity to feel fear because he would have been perceived as pusillanimous if he wouldn't have went and so this is the need for comprehensive men men who are strong but sensitive courageous but compassionate who can meet the moment and say hey look here I don't want you to make a decision Based off of trying to be Fearless I

want you to make the best decision based off of what's wise what will leave you in an advantageous position but when we tell boys from childhood don't cry no pain no gain we know that's not a universal principle if we own the football team and our star back towards Achilles we wouldn't let him go back out and play right so it has its its place um what's the other popular misleading Mantra uh everything in moderation well It takes less than an ounce of cyanide to kill us so we got to be careful because as men

we're programmed to only be one way and that's to keep going and as a result our sons are only seeing a portion of what it truly means to be be a man and that's authentically human yeah yeah a few years ago the the big toxic masculinity kind of people were using this and and um I ended up that somebody asked me to talk about it and Write about it so I wrote an article but you know what I said was if you take any trait male or female masculine or feminine and you take it to

an extreme it's going to be a problem MH if you take look we do you do you want your kid to be assertive of course you do yes do you want them to be hyper aggressive where no you don't want that sir do you want your kid to be generous of course you do do you want your kid to be giving everything away and get taken advantage Of of course not so you know and I ended up saying in the in the thing you some of these masculine traits I was like and yeah these are

these are traditionally masculine traits and my daughters all have them and I want them to have them you know want my daughters now do I want my daughter to be a psycho no I want to be aggressive yes you know but not crazy I I can guarantee just looking at this table your your daughters definitely have some masculine attributes but What's deep man is when you really look at those two words so if I'm a nurturer does that make me feminine yeah no it doesn't make sense so sense it's not about masculinity or femininity but

Humanity like can I operate finally as a human being and that's what I'm fighting for and I tell men especially they say uh well what if uh um my wife or the girl takes advantage of me being uh emotionally open I said man you're fortunate now cuz now if she's your Girlfriend you don't marry her cuz she's not mature enough for a comprehensive man if she's your wife you need to go to counseling like look we need to have you know this marriage is both of us okay and I told uh you know Mel Robbins

right I think I do know yeah she's very popular podcast um justful I don't know her personally and so um we were talking and I I shared you know from a psychological standpoint what does it do to us if we're out with Our wives and they're addressed as our better half she said I never thought about that you know and I we start laughing I said what if I gave you a honeydew list or what if you had a dog house and she just said and so as men this is like why would I get

married and it seems one-sided and then you know you wonder why majority of us don't go get checkups at doctors and it's like so I'm supposed to I want to live longer to work longer And give you everything and I don't experience it no way and so it's it's as men we're in a similar place where we now have to fight for our right to feel to be human to be accepted for more than just fighting and providing like look how many men in my era wanted to be chefs but yet the Mantra Was A

Woman's Place is in the kitchen and now that industry is dominated by men look how many men wanted to be nurses and not doctors but because at that time women Were only nurses and all the men were doctors they didn't want to be perceived as being weak so they didn't pursue their passion of service in that career and that's what happens to us even like the samurai I love using this example of how they love the cherry blossom tree these men you know they uh poetry and art but yet you never tested their masculinity cuz

they would kill you but they knew The Importance of Being comprehensive like I can't stay in Samurai mode my brother I have to look at these flowers it's good for my brain my mind I want to act I want to love that way when it's time to kill I can be fully committed to it you know but if you constantly and fight a flight you're burnt out you're going to overreact every time cuz this is that's your gear you're stuck in the first gear of manhood you're you're in the gear where you're meant to get

from Stop to Start we can't live there and that's why our Clutches are burning out I'm like man let's go to second and third gear manhood you're nurtur man you know give your daughter needs you to be kind right now or softer you got it in you it doesn't make you look weak and when men finally grasp that they they're like man I I I like being here now I you know we died by Suicide almost as four times as likely as women again we're not we we're tired of not living and that's the thing

so the only way we can get there is like Look we got to stretch ourselves like I share a story in uh this book about ho Gracie when he came before it was you know all that you know this stuff you know striking but what did he do mhm he woke everyone up so you had to either evolve or be eliminated that's all I'm saying about manhood if you're only going to be masculine you're only going to provide and protect you won't be able to make it and fully experience his life you know learn your

ground games yeah do Stand up what's this saying with 90 something per of the fights end on the ground 100% start standing that's true so all right true so hey learn how to strike but also you know learn JSU be comprehensive as a man and as a fighter and you experience life and that's the journey I'm on I'm still growing uh I would love to be more romantic with my wife you know uh I'm still working through that part in my heart where I was programmed by the minute in my life To never show your

emotions to her and then when you have a little Discord in marriage you know our wives are good at saying things that can trigger us and hurt you and stick with you and so I'm thankful I'm a verbal processor said because I no longer go to bed with resentment I can share those things but now it's about believing her intent wasn't to hurt me and moving past that so I can stay in the moment and don't ruin it and love her because nothing is Really promised anymore but when I was able to to master that

side now the arguments don't last now there's no silence in our home we realize that's what middle schoolers do let's communicate because we're not promising we know we're not trying to hurt each other you know so but yeah man yeah we're going to get into that comprehensive man for a minute uh hey you were doing martial arts cool you also got into football yes and you ended You know you you say here you know you went to a tryy out um I expected my friend to do well but I surprised everyone with my athleticism as

it turns out I was good very good we both made the team and I was assigned to the starting receiver position mhm it was the first time I can remember feeling as if I knew who I was I was a football player so now you're in the game fast forward a little bit in the book uh you go through practices you start playing Games your progression you get to a big game it could it couldn't get any better than this I felt as if the world was watching the ball spiraled effortlessly you're obviously get about

to catch a big uh point in the game it hit my enormous shoulder pads and bounced off as the clock ran out I stood motionless for a second as the game buzzer sounded in shock that I dropped such a makeable catch we lost we lost because of me when I looked up the excruciating Disappointment and disbelief written on the faces of my teammates were mocked by the celebration exploding on the opposite side of the field I felt lifeless as I climbed the bleachers a lesson humility I could have used sooner it wasn't ego it wasn't

vanity it was pure lack of self-esteem that drove me to pretend I was bigger than I actually was bigger batter tougher all the things that go with being a stereotypical male they drilled they drill into us from the Day we're born filling the mold the metal backbone of Steel designed to withstand the pressure the threat of human tears and lost veril and all of the games and of all the games for my father to attend this had to be the one I heard you dropped a touchdown pass was the first thing out of his mouth

not great catch in the first quarter or that block on 57 was legit just the same predictable negative that refused to see the good in me I Didn't respond what was there to say and you you actually figured I think he figured this out right in the book that he said to you I heard so he was at the he showed up he didn't see you play he didn't even see it that's how lady was that was the last play of the game my man dog but at the time you know of course those words

were HT a son who you know your dad is your Idol but I didn't realize Joo until I was writing that and then I I I realized Like whoa I'm my dad to my daughter and I went into she was getting ready for school man I went into the room overwhelmed with emotions drop to my knees before her and says I'm sorry and she says Dad what's wrong I said well no I was too harsh to you growing up I never looked into your life I wasn't affectionate enough I wasn't there for you and I'm

sorry as a good daughter she's just trying to make it better when no dad you were just you Know overprotective you want to make sure I'm good I said know I was wrong and I'm going tell you why and I talked about my father always being so harsh and mean-spirited and I learned that behavior and passed it to her and I it took years to even get where we are for me to undo my harshness even uh we were just uh recently my wife had surgery and my daughter comes in the room cuz I couldn't

sleep in the bed cuz my wife Needed to be almost like uh on the incline M and um so Lexis was sleeping in the room with her so she comes in our guest bedroom with me we had a heart-to-heart conversation and she started crying and I heard my little daughter the one that I was too hard to hear and uh I recall the time um and I had to share the with her to liberate her I said you know I want to go back in time a little bit to undo Something she was in Middle

School she was getting out of my work van and she accidentally slammed her finger into the door and I look at her face cuz I'm in a driver's seat and she's emotionless I get out open the door like oh baby okay but no affection in it I realized again my mother didn't give it to me cuz of what happened happened to Larry and I couldn't give it to her and my father's harshness and I said Lexi I want to let You know something that Dad was again a reminder to too hard on you you didn't

need discipline dad you needed a father when you knew that you were the apple of his eye and not the worm and the fruit and she cried and I just hugged her and it was that moment I realized like man and this is what I want to liberate men from when we blow one moment we don't have to keep blowing the others like let's let's let's be the right man in This moment like who do I need to be right now and at 4 in the morning that day my daughter needed a compassionate empathetic and

loving dad the one whose heart was shut off when he was Raising her and just to give her that freedom and then to UND do more intergenerational trauma and to stop like okay we're going to move even more now cuz I'm going to be more affectionate to you and and that's what that that story when I realized that That started my journey to becoming a better father more comprehensive and more present and aware of what my children need um you know yeah that that idea of actually taking ownership of mistakes that you made and uh

I did a podcast with my middle daughter and I had to take ownership of all kinds of things and I'll give you one example which everyone is so clear how jacked up this was so my daughter I got at the time I had two daughters one son now I Have three daughters but at the time I had two daughters one son my oldest daughter uh she was you know like a a ballerina and when the way her body is when you lift her up you ever pick up a bird dead bird yes and it's like

their bones are literally Hollow cuz that's how they can fly my oldest daughter's like that like just super light she very flexible super light my middle daughter Rana she was a different type of human she had this extra like density to her When you lifted her up she felt heavy and for me as a dad that likes fighting and wrestling and strength I was very proud of it and so when my friends would come over you know she's a little six-year-old girl I'd say hey lift up my older daughter and they'd lift her up and

I go now lift up her and they'd lift her up and I go feel how heavy she is it's a little girl you know six seven eight-year-old girl feel how heavy she is and I didn't Think any again I can't be any more proud I was so proud that this girl had this genetic mutation which it turns out she does have a genetic mutation like she got a body scan and she's off the chart for dens for like the density of her body wow I I actually I actually I I got a copy of the

scan I sent it to Rogan Rogan Rogan tells this story about um who's the fighter uh Cuban guy can't think of his name right ROM about Romero and he tells The story how they took him into the doctor and he had like they they did an x-ray of them or MRI of them and they're like where did you find this guy his eye tendons are three times larger than a normal person this guy's a mutant and so I sent that little thing to Rogan I said hey dude like my daughter's a mutant she's a mutant

but but it also made me feel like see I'm I'm Vindicated cuz I was right dude I was like you are different but man I just didn't Recognize that's how that's how as much as you know I like to oh you know talk about leadership and all you got to really understand yourself and you got to understand other people's perspective here I was the dad can't care anymore and love my daughters anymore and here I am just basically saying to a little girl you're heavy which is the worst thing a little girl can hear and

luckily she's a resilient kid and she you know Recognized and she carried on but you know she so when she now she's in high school and she's cutting weight cuz she's a wrestler and everything became about uh what is it body image right so she had to go through that pain of being o uh food obsessed so she's measuring her food and she's only eating a certain amount of calories and what's crazy is after she was on the podcast we were sitting around and we Were like looking at old videos and there was a video

of her and I'm I'm like making a video on my phone it's just a family video and she's making a a milk protein shake in our house and she's got the measuring cup out as she's putting milk in there and I you know I look at her I go hey what you know you know need to measure the milk I mean we don't need a measuring cup for that and she looks over her shoulder and she goes oh no dad I just want to know Exactly how much I'm getting and at the time I at

the time I actually thought to myself wow what a squared away young lady what a what a disciplined young girl what a disciplined young woman and and now we looked back on it and that was obsessive Behavior she was measuring you know she was weighing her pieces of bread wowow the bread says 22 G she measured it oh this one's 24 cut off two g wow so she's going through all that and what what do I think I'm so Ignorant I'm thinking oh well she's just a highly disciplined person and and that's the kind of

thing you know my my point in saying this is I got to look back and say no well you know she should have known better no this is me yes this is we we we make mistakes look there's I I I would say there's no uh guide book for being a parent there's actually probably thousands of gu for but man that's like saying a guide book for making art like you can get some Indicators when you read some book cuz there's millions of books about parenting but you're going to have a unique it's like I

would say about interacting with other people like you could be a carpenter right you got to learn how to use the tools you got to learn how to use the saw you got to learn how to use the the the lathe you got to learn how to use the Sandpaper you got to learn how to use all the different Tools but then you got to remember that there's different types of wood there's pine which is super soft but then there's eay which is super hard and you got to then use that tool different you got

to get different play and you got to actually use the tool differently but then you also have to remember that every single piece of pine is different yes and they have a knot that you got to work around you got to work that thing a little bit different and that ePay you Go hard at that ePay but there's a little soft spot that if you go too hard you're going to ruin the whole thing and that's what that's what that's the true that's what not just kids but people you know people are like that that's

why we a leadership position you can't just say oh when I'm in a leadership position I do this when I'm in a leadership position I think about these things and I use these various tools and I apply these pressures and I look for the Feedback from the human that I'm interacting with just like that piece of wood oh it's getting a little getting a little soft right here I lighten up a little bit so it's good that you can look back and take ownership which you which as you said it's liberating when you go yep

that was on me I should have I was I would you know even when I was telling that story about like my wife telling me hey your your son your six-year-old son is not an Active duty machine gunner in a seal platoon hey it's like yep that's you're right I'm wrong and I'm a 20 whatever I was 28y old guy or something like that actually no I was older than that I was like 35 oh what an idiot uh but you know here I am 35 old man I don't not there still working on it

still making mistakes made mistake today made mistake tomorrow make mistake the next day but got to have that open Mind and that ability to say yep that's actually I can see that 100% on me I made this mistake I won't let that happen again try and get better I tell our boys mistakes are our greatest teachers they are indeed that the only worst one is the one we didn't learn from yeah that's good man I I know she was happy to have that conversation with you your daughter oh yeah yeah no it's like she's such

a great and the feedback you know from so many people so many Women that listen to that because for guys it's kind of like fear right I I like when's the last time you were afraid I mean for my son when he's driving you know yeah so I mean when's the last time you were personally afraid for your own safety um 2019 you think about it it's been 5 years five years Echo Charles no I don't know can't even remember M for for females they they they'll go oh yeah two Days ago I was at

this I was at the supermarket and I walked outside and there was like uh you know my car the street light had gone off like that's very common for for them to go through that it's the same thing with body image look boys get it you know oh I'm a little bit skinny I'm a little bit chubby I'm a little bit short I'm a little bit whatever boys will get that a little bit girls get that so much worse young girls get that so much worse and So when when my daughter was telling those stories

it was a lot of people a lot of a lot of people reached out and just said hey it's so good to hear someone talking about that and a and a father and daughter talking about it cuz dads we don't realize that for sure man you know as a dad we look at our daughter and go dude you're you're strong you're you're going to be able to squat so much no girl is fired up to squat a lot with the 9 years old there There's not one this gu there's not one and here Here I

Am All Fired Up MH think of this old Powerhouse so got to be careful those things yeah man I mean I'm going keep I'm going to use that man I didn't realize you know we have to think about it but it's their daily experience you know often talk with men as well like what if as insecure as many men are what if we had to wear makeup before we put on we had to put on makeup before we Left the house every day what if that was our life and how much pressure is on our

women and our daughters that who they really are they're taught so young that it's not good enough MH and uh I need to to dig there a little more dig deeper and um I'm definitely going to use what you just said about fear I I I take that for granted and I remember man this is good I'm glad you said that I had uh wanted to create like a a VR virtual reality training for the cave And I had to go through this training and one of the sessions was being in the body of a

woman so you put the headset on and you were a woman for I think it was like 15 minutes to see all the sexual advances and the way they're treated in society by men was appalling when I took that headset off I'm like and this was not to really talk about that I had no interest in learning about VR you know I wanted to like I Need to do something to help my men men change this cuz women shouldn't have to go through life like that and we have no clue MH so I thank you

for bringing that to my attention because you're you're right even with my my wife you know like how many times is she scared out by herself you know she doesn't have a CPL you know I do I carry MH but you know at home alone you know I mean better get yourself a different kind of dog no she when she she when she can shoot guns in The house she just she can't shoot him on the streets but we we're set at home any area of the house you come in you know it's a problem

you know um and uh yeah I teach him not to use the sights either how to shoot without sights awes yeah but yeah thank you for sharing that brother that's um sobering and I need to be more sensitive to that um fast forward a little bit so you you know look you suffered this stuff with Kelly now you're playing the football thing you and you start to change you start to and I've got in my notes Here I put in quotes grow up right cuz really you ain't growing up at all really you're growing down

that's what it seems like around start 13 you start growing down right you don't grow up and you become someone a little bit different you start you start DJing you got that musical kind of blessing Um you're a popular DJ you say this the alteration of my conduct was alarming and again I'm fast forward and mhm and as I changed my friends did as well the Maestro so this is you this is your you're you're a a popular DJ and you have a you have a band what do you call it a band rap grp

you have a rap group it's Maestro and chaos and by the way everyone if you Google chaos Andro chaos and Maestro you can go watch uh you can go watch your music there's I only found One actual video but you there's a bunch of songs on there yes but the one video there's one full like it's a produced video yes and you're the dj and chaos is rapping and it's 1989 time frame and it sounds very much period it's a very much a period piece yes it is um and so that's what you're doing you

got all this stuff going on so it's now so it's now Maestro the dominant centerpiece of some of the best Detroit parties was now drinking 40 oun beers and acting Recklessly how could someone so young feel so old I was treating my mother audaciously walking back or altogether ignoring her as I paraded around acting like the man of the house when my stepfather tried to intervene my mom wouldn't allow it she refused to let Mr crumb this is a your your uh mom's new husband she refused to let Mr crumb discipline discipline me and by

doing so did more harm than good it only enabled me to continue down a path of Destruction eventually this resulted in a wedge developing between my mom and my stepdad affecting their relationship my grades continue to drop but with the crutch of College nowhere in my future I completed just enough schoolwork to keep me from failing my inspiration was music my lust was for sex my love was for money yeah that don't end well no it doesn't and um thankfully I avoided many uh death traps you know along that way Mr Crum was really a

good man um taught me how to play two sports football and baseball he was the one that would throw the ball with me you know catch and teach me routes and how to catch a baseball while my father was at work and here it is me not respecting him um I remember one time him and my mother got an argument this was the reason for their divorce I grabbed a shotgun and basically told him stop yelling at my mother and he never came back mhm and I Can't really disagree with him like yeah oh yeah

no he shouldn't teenager the shot how you going SLE no and at his funeral um I chose to give you know what is it TW minute remarks and I got up there and as I was I first you know hear everyone testify about how great he was as a man of God you know Deacon in the church and mentor to so many people and servant I'm like wow this man was in my House when I get up to speak and I start sharing God was like you know how you always wanted a father I was

like in my head I'm like yeah he says that's him in that casket I sent them to you I heard your prayer I knew what you longed for but you wanted the man that wasn't there so much that you missed the man that [Music] Was when I said I couldn't hold it together I lost it at the that moment at the podium because so many young boys you got great men and stepfathers in your life and it's natural to want your your your father around but and you're praying for a man that can really care

and I had one man he was a great man like he cooked dinner for my mom before he went to work afternoons at Chrysler and I blew that work ethic Strong work ethic Christian man kind dangerous and because of my anger toward my father's absence I blew a blessing that was there and so so many of us again missed the moment like if I could go back I would Embrace that completely you know and I missed that man but um I uh I I I I I owed him that honor of sharing who he really

was to me and I owed him those tears at that Podium he deserved every tear that dropped that Day cuz he was a he was a good man to me yeah in in the meantime you uh meet with one of your dad's friends and and he tells you you have a brother in Detroit named Keith you two are purposely kept apart Keith knows you about you and really wants to meet you so this is your dad had another kid around the same age right was it's not funny it's funny now but that's who uh my

mom believed he had stepped out on their marriage with was Ke's Mother yeah uh you guys get together you guys meet in the parking lot a drugstore you know and and you can tell right away he's rich and he ain't getting rich from uh he's not working on Wall Street no so he's in the drug scene um dealing drugs and he he he keeps you out of it yes for the most part to the best of his ability like there's opport obviously if he was a bad person he would wrap you right into it so

what's Interesting he lost his brother as well from a different father uh same he had the same mother as his brother but a different father his brother was a star athlete similar to Larry very influential guys were jealous because he I think he was a freshman starting on varsity they shot and killed him at the park so Keef at that moment said you know uh I don't want to lose another one and my lifestyle although he was a millionaire and he was he was the real Deal which is why he died the way he did

he was wasn't one to play with so they want you to have that life and so as much as I beg to sell drugs with him and to be a part of that family he refused to allow it I mean Joo he had I mean $100,000 watches in 89 and 90 okay I remember one time he sued the city of Detroit for raiding one of his houses illegally for a million dollars he blew it all in Vegas just to prove a Point and that's how much money he had and I'm thankful cuz my cousins on

his side wanted me to be down wanted them man J cool you should bring him in these guys they were they were it was you know here it is my hero he's my idol that's why I titled the chapter that he was my idol but God saw how dangerous that could have been for me and uh so when I met him imagine you're losing your brother Larry your other brother St Clair is in Texas but now you have Another brother like man maybe this could work and so I was just excited and then again drug

dealers were like heroes in my community like man he getting paid he a man regardless of how many people lives are lost because of what they sell they revered and uh I never looked at the danger side until um and I hope I'm not going ahead of what you're reading good um got an tication here Gabriel again my ex- Marine friend um we're watching him uh our boy are making sure that the guy he's fighting boys don't jump in so imagine a crew of gu is on one side another crew on the other and then

my friend fighting their guy so Gabriel was you know he was fighting basically beat the guy down we thinking it's over we leave part ways I get in my car and leave but the guys who were with them and the guy he beat up got in the car and found my car so we thinking they Want to fight again I pull over in the gas station willingly all right what's up this time they had guns one of them get in the back seat and I'm driving uh my friend Gary is here and my friend Nate

who's no longer with us he's in the back seat and the guy comes and puts a gun in my head and says take us to Gabe house now so I got my hands on the steering wheel I'm like I'm sorry but I can't do that like I'm talking to the Police I said I can't do do that cuz Gabe family is my family and everyone acts tough until you feel that cold piece of Steel on your head and that's when you know you got a real friend and Gabe has shown himself many times for me

so the guy gets out the back seat and has a discussion with two of his friends like we're just going to sit there so I look at Gary and the guy comes around and hits Gary in the face with the Gun cuz he was just angry and now the other two guys are out talking and I'm looking Nate is cool and the guy who punched me I forgot about that he was so weak he had a free shot and he was elevated and I just blinked that's how lightweight he was so my plan was to

hit the gas grab him his shirt and drag him down this the street uh which is schaer and Detroit so when I looked I hit the gas grabed him and the guy turned and shot The back window out the guy braced himself in between the gas tanks which is why I couldn't drag him I'm thankfully I didn't because I probably would have I would have went to jail okay you see how that could have turned out and I called Keith paging him actually this was when beepers were popular you were you born then yeah I'm

just messing with you so I'm paging him and we had a code I would page something was wrong it was Our code was 94 or 74 I can't recall he never answered the whole weekend like this is strange that was God because he was out of town and he didn't have his pager he comes back in town calls me hey what's going on what's happened I just see all your your pages I tell them what happened I said well look let's just go by and shoot their house up I know where they say that was

gangster enough for me again I never was a thug it was like Tupac said I ain't a killer but don't push me I that was me I never wanted to really go deep off and I had enough wisdom to say that's going to lead to his life and I don't want that life my brother's response at that moment let me know that either he wasn't going to live long or I wasn't he said no let's not shoot up their house let's go inside kidnap them torture them and then kill them next level that's so I

I said all Right all right cool this was my response escalated from the driveby I said all right cool um all right I'mma call you as soon as I get the location I know and I already told him I knew where he was he said all right don't forget call me and he was on me say said where are they they don't mess with my brother where are they I said why I'm trying to locate at the house I thought it was so I got out of that but I knew I'm like okay this is

Next level this isn't just a fight and so my idol then became a wakeup call I loved them dearly but I knew it was a lifestyle I I couldn't I shouldn't desire and so at that point I became the little brother was saying can you get out how do you get out and right before well I want to get ahead of you but yeah as this is happening too and again I mentioned chaos and Maestro but this little section here respect I finally had it Chaos and Maestro's first single and video dropped Maestro on the

flex by the way available on YouTube at this time it sure is was a 1989 hit in Detroit and several Midwestern cities and garnered an award for number for number one video on the box of pay-per-view cable network for the most weeks at the top MH so you were and like again I watched the video this is 1989 this was like right in theme with everything that was going on good song You Know leg okay you guys Definitely had some things to uh you had some potential clearly you guys had some potential enemy we became

friends with Chuck D and uh he let us open up for him for two concerts man dang he was in we have two videos online actually he was in the second one and so I we were just just right there you were right there I we were I remember one time I walked in McDonalds when that video just dropped and it was a school uh uh Shrine was the high school their cheerleading team was In McDonald's I walk in and just happen to have the same coat and hat I had on in the video so

I'm walking get a meal and I hear girls and I stopped and it was like my show and I just ate it all love I just I enjoyed it so yeah we that was a very uh special time in our lives and uh to ke's point was funny we were we weren't um at the time there were a lot of hip-hop that promoted violence and drugs we were more on the uh uh we were a positive Hip-hop conscious black community group all right so my brother would joke with me all the time he says man

I can't even get no sex cuz your music too positive I I tell the girls you know my brother's Maestro they want to act all deep now with me so uh that was his little running joke he said I can't even get nothing nothing from these girls cuz of you but um that was a great time in our life and uh and being with Public Enemy you know they were very conscious Rap yeah and Chuck D was just uh just a phenomenal guy his grandmother actually stayed I think five or six blocks from me so

when he would come in town it was an honor for me to take him over there and just to be around someone I looked up to dang yeah so it was very special time so especially back in those like I would say the playing field is somewhat more even now because you know someone could just make YouTube videos and you could get out there but back in those Days like if you had a connection like Public Enemy they were at the height when we met them absolutely yeah and flavor flave and then this before they

had signed Ice Cube and I knew all about that Chuck had told me before like what they working I'm like that's going to be crazy but you're right it was just different then and just to be in a car with a rapper that large no social media and he's iconic without that man it was just uh great time great times Yeah I'm going fast forward a little bit cuz this happens the truck collided with the medium you're driving the truck collided with the medium and went Airborne flipping twice I had a surreal view of the

world through the windshield tipping end over end I braced for impact like a juggernaut the truck crashed to the ground with metal bending glass shattering and its passenger still breathing the soundtrack came back accelerating the speed of life I heard The high-pitch squeal of an ambulance siren that was faint at first but gradually got louder the world was right side up again and I was back on my on on my back on an emt's stretcher I remembered all the times I'd stared up at the name Jesus in glowing stars on sin Clair's ceiling instantly I

knew who it was speaking to me I recognized him so the again there's get the book cuz there's so many details to this story You have the car crash keep keth gets killed we me we we talked about in the beginning but Keith is killed you also find out you're going to be a dad yeah because because I I didn't I missed the part where you met Nicole right but you know what's deep about the car crash what made it really interesting was that a friend of mine who is in was in the NBA well

he was number one draft pick that year his mother was like a spiritual mom to me She told him not to drive the truck cuz he was rapping and I had to go to the studio to get some music oh yeah this is also like the Detroit Pistons are in are national champions in this time this is just chaos crazy yeah and so mro chaos so imagine driving this truck not knowing that someone said that you were going to get an accident in it then when it happens you get you're an e you're on the

uh what is it called this g gurnie yep your best friend comes in he's the Number one draft pick so everyone's going crazy cuz he's in the hospital but he's not happy he's literally like frantic like Jay you okay you know this you got to listen I'm like listen man calm down they only have me on this for precautionary reasons he said that's not why I'm acting this way my mother told me this was going to happen to you you got to stop running from God that's what made that accident very deep for me it

was a message and right be right after That I got another one as well but Nicole I just met Nicole he actually introduced I Shear his name he's cool Chris Weber all right yeah and so we were real close and I appreciate Chris cuz during that time he would pay for pastors to come down from Flint or wherever to come meet with me cuz he knew God had this strong calling on my life and he wanted to make sure I was around the right people he introduced me to Nicole at we were looking for Furniture

for our apartment Nicole has a twin sister and um I said he said man I want to introduce you to her man no one can talk to them at at Michigan and so Nicole she to this day she denied she wasn't trying to burst my bubble but she looks at me she says you look very familiar and everyone in Detroit knew me she going I said well it's probably from chaos of my trama I'm kind of famous you know what she said she was like no that's not it and I'm like it it Just it

burst my bubble but at that moment that's when I knew she was the one for me you know and I pursued her but Chris is the reason he made that connection man and so um I appreciate Chris his mother and uh their family for you know uh just wanting me to be on a different path at that time in my life yeah so you got all that going you find out you're going to be a dad yes uh and this is a great part of the story again get the book but you you you Have

a job you're working at a trucking company you're unloading offload and stuff and you're you're you're talking to God saying like why am I here what are you doing for me what have you done for me lately exactly and you end up uh getting injured yes by a what was it a I was on a high low yeah and uh I went to unload the pallet truck like I would do every night and I was actually I was talking to Nicole and Nicole was trying to encourage me you know like don't get Upset I'm like

if God is real why am I working all these hours my talent again I couldn't do music anymore cuz my daughter needed insurance so I'm working at Coca-Cola at the time and she says you know don't get upset I said you know what God is n real because I was studying egyptology and other religions and studies as well metaphysics as well and I said the only bro you're lucky you only got the high you know what I said I said the only Jesus coming or only son Coming through the sky is the Sun God Ra

cuz I was real heavy in egyptology and I hung the phone up I said God ain't real for the first time in Cocola his history at that location I was driving went to go on the bed of the truck and I couldn't get on like what's going on so I back up hit the plate that you know goes over into the bed and I couldn't get on I was unaware that the truck was moving the Driver didn't chalk the brakes so when I went back up and hit it again the truck moved away half of

my Hyo got on it but I was still leaving the deck I mean the uh what is it called the platform platform yeah myo drops down I fall off 28 did this as a result and what I knew it was God cuz when the truck was coming back my Forks dropped down to stop the the bed from crushing me then a friend friend of mine at the time work with me Jimmy snail jumped on And stopped everything and at that moment Joo I looked up man remember I knew he was calling me but I was

running and I looked up at the the moon the stars and I said you know what I Surrender I'm done I'm done doing it my way and I will follow you and after that my entire life changed for the better and uh you know I was saying some of us change when we feel the uh some of us change when we see the light people like me change when we feel The heat so that's what it took he knew it took that adversity that Crucible to get out of me and get out of his way

your um your your hip-hop friends kind of started make fun of you a little bit and that kind of ended that uh at least part of that uh and again get the book there's so there's so much stuff in here I want but I want to close out the book with this this section that you say right here um you say faith my faith was Undeniable to everyone around me and when my commitment to that Faith was challenged it was made all the more real IID stopped drinking and cursing I had nailed my old self

to the Cross which drew me me deeper into a dialogue with yah about the direction I was going but great strides are sometimes met with equal resistance and Newfound philosophies will be subject to probing questions some you'll be able to answer some you won't like me you'll have two Choices move forward or go backward advance or Retreat there is no middle ground when serving yah you are either with him or against him um so again the the book continues and with some blessings more blessings incredible blessings your son Jason is born and also some incredible

struggles you know your wife went through miscarriages uh the death of your Father your mom as well after suffering through dementia like you have to get the book to to hear those stories and you learn to deal with these uh these various types of blessings yes um through emotional resiliency through faith through tears and that's the the title the book right cry like a man um when did you did you have the title of the book did you know that that was the direction that you were heading in When you started it absolutely I had

um studied uh some of the work of Dr William Frey biochemist he had discovered that tears um from emotional stress or trauma not only contain 98% water but also stress hormones that actually get excreted from the body when we cry and that's why we feel better typically after we had a good cry like people say I need a good cry because you're actually releasing stress hormones so Think about the millions of men who programmed to be stoic mhm or Fearless can't cry won't cry and I tell men all the time you're crying you're just crying

the wrong way addiction uh abuse you know uh struggling with uh trauma issues you know not being the dad that you desire but being the dad that you had when you were a child that you never you vowed you never be um uh uh suicidal ideations you name it uh struggles with pornography so men are Crying and that's why I subtitle is fighting for freedom from emotional incarceration because so many of us have willingly walked into our own jail cells and turned our hearts off from the world because we no longer want to be impassively

dismissed when we have a moment of feeling of Being Human so we say all right cool I'm I'm going just stay here and and be safe for myself and as a result you will never receive the man I was created to be you will only Get the provider and protector everything else you'll never have and so that's why I titled that and it was you know it was at the time of saying that you would never hear in 2018 cry men crying and so I knew it was something that uh the most high wanted me

to do and to stretch me especially during an era when men weren't talking about being emotional expressing ourselves Beyond just being strong and then excuse me and then to see the response from that so Many men saying brother I needed this so bad I remember after the Rogan show uh podcast uh a wrestler came up to me from uh was it Romania I can't remember I was in the gym working out man and this he comes I knew he was a wrest I just I just knew it he comes over to me his eyes are

bloodshot red so I didn't know what to expect I'm like okay where is this going and he says uh Mr Wilson and he reaches out and grabs both of my uh biceps he Said I just heard the Rogan interview and just dropped his head and paused looked at me hugged me and walked away I actually text Joe that and uh it was encouraging him I know he hears it a lot but in that moment to see that this message is received by men all over the globe men who are tired of the facade there is

no freedom in the facade the freedom lies in just allowing yourself to be human to be able to meet the moment whatever's Needed and to give a man that freedom and then to see men transform it makes all of my struggle all that I've been through the adversity the thoughts in my head that you know the negative thoughts you know that come it's still worth it keep fighting my knees would hurt and I got to get down on them and teach the kids it's worth it because that young boy will remember this moment and he

probably know what he'll do but with these Principles whatever it is and he if he stays grounded in these or rooted in these he'll change his world and that's all we really need I don't need someone to change the entire world can you change your world I say that all the time people man you worry about your world right now exactly get get your world help one other help one kid you know help one kid out there help one dad help one mom single mom like what can you do how can you help that one

kid and You're you're you're going you're doing the right thing that's it man if if we we can grasp that man you know again if you put all of these little worlds together now you're covering more area um and you know I I love social media it's a great platform to reach people but at the same time I believe so many of us have been deceived that it's actually reaching people you know instead of reaching people where they are you there is just you're getting the Message out but that real interpersonal work being right right

there that's where I I thrive in desire like give me a room with 20 men or 50 boys and let's really do this real work you know I tell men all the time they come up to me man I love your work thank you I said do you have my book or any of my books they said well no I'm going get one I said man my videos just scratched the surface you talking two minutes versus 60,000 I mean 60,000 Words go deeper dive deeper and men say I want to escape emotional incarceration how how

do I become a comprehensive man run to the areas in your life that cause you to feel emotions that you run from the sadness the sorrow the fear of losing someone it could be a parent aging parent a niece a nephew that has a disability wherever you go which makes you feel what I would say unmasculine emotions run there cuz this world I don't believe has yet Experienced the nurturing love of a man cuz ours is different I believe when this world feels that because it's it's a strength it's stability it's peace it's love and

it feels different from women when we come in and nurture it's calming so imagine men learning worldwide how to be comprehensive more than just fire Fighters and Warriors and providers but yet men who can meet every Moment in life man this this their worlds would change and as a byproduct this world would change and and that's what keeps me going is like the testimonies the stories even when you reached out in 2016 even when you sent the pallet of protein and even now you know uh running into Joe and to having conversations with him outside

of who we are in the public eye and what we do that's where the real work is done and that's why I Love being there in the midst of it like I remember I was at a meeting the top nonprofits in the city of Detroit and they all brainstorming on how to help black boys this is the topic and I'm sitting at this table and I'm looking at all these CEOs and I was a CEO but I wasn't you know I was a direct service provider I wanted to be right there with the kids and

I'm sitting at this table and like wait a minute in Highland Park Michigan I got a group of boys waiting on me to come teach them and I'm sitting here at this table trying to figure out how to help boys this was the first time I cried in a public setting like that and I got up from the table I said I'm sorry I can't be here no more I said I appreciate this this is like like the Pentagon and Generals are strategizing over what needs to be done I don't need that give me the

ammunition and drop me off where The problem is I left that meeting with the suits and went to Highland Park a area right outside of Detroit do you know my boys had clinked the entire classroom swept the floor was seated in a circle still these same kids they said had ADHD now could sit still for 30 minutes to an hour if I asked them that's where the work was that's where I wanted to be I respect everyone who gets the funding and you know got to get the ammunition and of course you know However it

looks even on the military side you were sealed you're you're dropped where the problem is I'm wired the same way I don't want to I don't have cuz it's it's like the commercial where the sink the water is running in the restroom and everyone's looking at the sink and talking then someone just randomly comes up and turn the water off then everyone leaves we talk too Much we do it's too much talking no strategizing everyone is hyper emotional that's why we're losing that's why I'm thankful I learned how to master and Rule my emotions I

don't get lost in them I respect them they have to be my slave more than they ever are my master and so I just want to be in the thick of it I don't I don't care he about the fame the being in the public eye you can cut all of that off Man just drop me where the problem is and let me do what I do and if more of us can do that there's more [ __ ] more Echo things that really changeed brother I'm telling you yeah so many mornings I look at

your watch on Instagram I'm like there's no way this guy and I talked to Joe he was like Jason this guy does this by this time he's in the water swim I said what and I'm telling you I look at that that watch I'm like just that one post I don't think you have a caption But that image says Get Up do something and that's what we need it's like it's too much talking don't lead by intimidation lead by example and I I'm not the one to talk I'm here because of the message liberating men

and of course to have this conversation with you but we're wired the same you know there's fruit from what you do don't I don't need to talk about what I do look at my fruit like the Messiah says you will Know them by their fruit and and that's what I ask people to judge me on nothing else my words mean nothing let me show you what I do as you made the transition from you know uh Maestro and running around and you were doing production and you had hits and next thing you know I mean

at least looking at it from the outside next thing you know you're doing tile and you're running a tile business yeah How did you square that how did your ego square that up there's a lot of people that can't make that transition I think that transition from the hopes and dreams of one thing to the reality of life some people don't make it through that that's a good question um I would say responsibility my daughter meant the world to me there's no way on Earth I'm allow a dream to turn into a nightmare To her

you know um I had to do what I needed to do I had to be the man in that moment my daughter needed provision my wife needed provision she actually made more than me when I first started Nico but she didn't need my money she needed my presence as a leader M and the head of the home so it was easy for me to shift because I'm about getting the job done you know music wasn't making money it was a desire I could still do it on the side but when you got a house two

Cars a wife a daughter insurance and you're not foolish and you're mature like and I say I'm pretty good at this TI stuff and I did really well actually started making more money than the the mentors I had in the trade um athletes from the Pistons would call and I would tow their home so I was always being taken care of as long as I was willing to be responsible and do what was needed where did you get the notion to start the Cave came from a desire uh again I you know go back to

ninjitsu 12y old in the backyard me and Eko Sir With Our Stars um oh always wanting a man I could have an allegiance to someone who wouldn't who would challenge me but not condemn me who would also show me the spiritual things and Mentor me into manhood and I I never had that you know no matter how many gyms or Dojo I went into and I I saw that the pursuit the pursuit was Vain and nothing could Answer this longing that's where the cave came from when I saw misguided boy specifically African-Americans in my community

needing help and I went on the scar Straight programs where you take boys who are in trouble to prisons and hopefully they get scared straight or the boot camp programs as well and what's interesting you don't even see you'll be hardpressed to find one these days because how can you help a kid overcome trauma by re-traumatizing him And so that's when God showed me uh uh our boys didn't need to be scared straight they needed to be healed they didn't need more discipline they needed more love and so that's what birthed the cave of ad

delum it started as all disciplin cuz that's how I was wired and then it turned into a space cuz I knew like wait a minute how is it that you have A8 GPA like not even a 1.0 and you don't have a learning disability this isn't making sense to me so then I discovered wait a minute these kids have significant trauma and then when you do more research kids who experience significant trauma will exude ADHD symptoms it makes all the sense in the world if a child has to sleep outside because there's constant uh trauma

or stress in their home how good are they going to be academically if they're sleeping outside at Night it doesn't it it's not going to work so when I gave him that safe space Joo the cave turned into of course now martial arts wasn't the focus it was a byproduct you would learn how to defend yourself if you learn how to deal with the war within yourself so I said you cannot defend what hasn't been disciplined I said cuz if I can do this faint and you move you going to lose let's deal with why

you're moving when I found the why and help them resolve that That group in Highland Park all of them graduated and many of them were in danger of not passing and so that's where it birth from and then biblically the cave of adum is where David ran you know David David and Goliath where he ran from King Saul who was jealous of him and he hid in this cave and it was in the town of adullam it wasn't a random cave and 400 of his family came to him and these men who came to him

distressed and debt and Discontented left that cave as Mighty Men of Valor so I'm like okay well wait a minute that's all it says in the scriptures and I'm like well something had to have happened for them to come out of that emotional and mental state to be called Men of Valor and I stayed in that cave I wanted to learn more like what what happened they already were Warriors David already had defeated Goliath these men were already bad what they needed was a safe Space for men to come together these strong Warriors to talk

in the Brotherhood the camaraderie and to let go of the burdens of what they were dealing with and when they were finally able to release and leave that cave that's what my boys do I let them go and come as they please I say you'll never see a door at the mouth of a cave you're always welcome and you can leave when you need your goal is to come here to be strengthened and to be Sent back out to war and that's where it came from it was desire to give them what I wanted when

I'm talking to them I pray in every moment every time like God give me the answer this is different this is different he always responds and as long as my heart is giving them what I longed for I put myself in their shoes like I remember when I didn't know my identity and when I had fear of failure what did I want to hear and I share it the patience I Didn't want my father cussing me out every time I made a mistake like he would no why did you make the mistake son well because

I'm scared why are you scared well uh because um I'm I'm trying to impress my father well why are you trying to impress your father because um I I feel that I can never please him then I bring the dad on the mat so it's beautiful man because you get to dig deep in real time and now you're teaching these boys how to Process and then in the in the process you're stopping intergenerational trauma because you're helping the dad to heal because he's crying and sitting on the side and I said you good he was

like that's me what he struggle with I struggle with I can just hide it he can't hide it and so now jao these fathers is funny I didn't I didn't say we're going to have a cave of adull for men these men said you're going to have a cave of Adela for men and so we Combined you know Jiu-Jitsu of course you see that we start with Judo to teach boys how to fall and the analogy is if you can fall or fail and get back up you'll make it and so as you know with

Judo if you're tense and you fall you feel it a lot more it's like the drunk driver he survives after a crash but everyone else dies because everyone else is stiff and scared he's drunk so he doesn't even know so I'm teaching boys like look life is going to throw you but If you know how to fall and you're calm you're going to rise again then when you're down now we got to go to Jiu-Jitsu because now when you're down you're going to start experiencing thoughts and negativity what happens when depression tries to take your

back and tap you out we have a saying also that never let anyone that doesn't love you take your back and so we are Stay Stay keep them in front of you keep them in front of you then we also have a Saying act like the mats of 400° cuz you still have to rise now if it's competition you Jitsu or in the gym cool but out there you got to get up cuz if you stay down now comes friends now the depression the fear the insecurity stomping you out now you got to rise and

that's when we yeah so now we work on the MU thae and boxing and then take down the fence and they got to put it all together before they can graduate but the Jiu-Jitsu is very is beautiful To see and I love it because um you can't fake it it's it's going to expose who you are and the struggle is so needed um it humbles you instantly cuz you you're not going to win all I tell the kids like you're just learning you didn't lose you no one wins every day it's not going to happen

in this life what did you you learn did you download everything that happened were you calm did you practice the techniques the way We taught and Drilling and then it's the choking you know life will come choke you did you put yourself in position to get choked what happens when you're doing everything right and it comes that way how do you respond the classroom the focus when we work on striking everything who's the most important person in the room in the classroom they'll say the teacher I said why are your friends distracting you and then

we'll go training with with the hands in The mids and the focus Ms and I faint off to the uh to their left just to get their attention over there I say I'm the problem focus on me and that's one of the uh videos that went viral I was swinging a club at one of my students and he kept jumping I'm like you think this is the problem it's like kajana taught us he says see this knife here if I drop it on the table can it hurt you no why are you jumping at this

I'm the problem teach my boys you're focused on The wrong thing this is the distraction what in your life is the distraction causing you to jump and you're not dealing with the problem the problem is your focus either your trauma unresolved the friend you're around that's pulling you away it's not the homework it's probably your phone it's probably the PlayStation you're distracted it's not this it's this deal with that so the Principles they take it and as a result what is it uh over 78% of our students improve their grade point average without tutoring awesome

yeah and so it's a great thing to see man and um that's where it all came from a passion to give them what I wanted yeah and then one of those or bunch of those videos ended up you know for lack of a better way of saying it going Viral uh I remember seeing them and I think as I think about it now there's a reason you know the reason that it went viral is people on people are watching it going number one I I I think I might need that I think I need someone

to talk to me like that right now you know and also oh look at the response that this is getting from this kid and you can see a kid in a minute long video or a two- minute long video you can see them transform In a legitimate way to overcome some kind of an obstacle and so recognizing that we have the ability to overcome and how we're interacting with people those things end up going um you know like you said going viral and and people became very aware of it you end up doing the movie

how'd that come about um Lawrence well the first producer who reached out was Roy bank and um he he and Lawrence had connected and he had showed Lawrence Fishburn the Uh viral video the first one in 2016 then lawence started watching other videos and he was like we have to get this out because the WR of Passage is missing for boys in general remember I was talking about like when people die and you don't have a protocol say protocol for missing in this country yeah that's why so many grown men and there's nothing wrong with

gaming I I I think that's cool but the the men who are stuck in the basement I'm talking a Different type of man where he is lost in life and they're not playing the game they're living the game there you go yeah that's why that happens there is no public acknowledgement and the way he's treated after this ceremony that you are now a man and we will treat you like that but more so than you just being given this you're going to be tested to make sure you know it and you are it and so

Lawrence he jumped in like with both feet and just was fully moved by the Work and um we produced a documentary on it uh directed by lorda caway very powerful we won all the awards at Tribeca film festival and um it was just it was amazing moment there I remember at the premiere um just to see we had all of our students fly there we got them all there and the standing ovation I think was like 5 minutes after the film went off and to see your work on the screen like that and it's just

uh a beautiful Moment and um never forget it and actually first time meeting Lawrence in person cuz I always been a Morpheus like lawence Fishburn fan as an actor but when the Matrix came out you know I I man I wish morphus was my dad you know I would put myself in Neo's place you know and uh I actually created a a a curriculum off of The Matrix the movie and especially one scene and so when we met I went to his house and it was funny he had on all black like like Morpheus and

we're just talking like regular man he was like man I'm so excited you hear no one ever comes to my house like this so imagine an iconic actor like Lawrence Fishburn cooking dinner for you and you're in the kitchen he's cooking salmon and all and I said look bro you can't let me at least clean up or something so we just talking and it was like a dream come true and then what was even greater was to have like A brotherhood meaning I get to talk to Lawrence Larry Fishburn the man we had similars with

our moms our mother's health and mental health and just the childhood not having our fathers around and just to see that it was it was real and authentic and that you know he really wanted to get the message out and I finally had met someone I looked up to for so long was really cool man and I I I never forget that time and moment and um just truly a great time in my life yeah Yeah so the the movie comes out after that you write and publish a book called battlecry you write in a

book you wrote a book called The Man the moment demands and I think we're going to get into those books on another podcast so we'll we'll cut this one for today uh in the meantime on the internet you can obviously you can get your book your new book The Man the moment demands people can find you on the interwebs Mr Jason wilson.com and then on Instagram You are Mr Jason O Wilson that's also on Twitter uh Facebook Jason Wilson and then your YouTube is Mr Jason O Wilson you also for for the charity uh nonprofit

it's the Y union.org yeah it's pronounced Union it's pronounced Union but I want to make Y is silent thank you sir the Y is silent just so people know what to type in it's the y the letter Y and then union.org and that's also you can also follow them on social media It's cave313 Detroit [Music] righty all day yeah cave313 on Twitter and cave313 on Instagram cave313 on Facebook YouTube so awesome stuff and we'll dive back into the rest of your story on the next podcast um in the meantime also you can check out joof

fuel.com we've been drinking some joof fuel how's that tast really good man amazing there you go I Endor this this is really good and Working with kids just to see the sugar no sugar no no sugar and no artificial sweeteners cuz you could say oh no sugar but it's sweetened with a bunch of chemicals that are just as bad if not worse for your kids but even the carbs are low man wow that's why because it doesn't have sugar but it's got natural sweeteners in it we figured out how to make the this is my

second one whoever's watching this is really good you know check yes so check out joof fuel.com Check out origin usa.com if you need gese for your Jiu-Jitsu training americanmade gese check those out rash cards we know we sent some rash cards out to the cave she did man I was so pumped seeing those kids man I just know how much it's impacting them and it was just so awesome it's just so awesome to see that stuff uh and then ashon front.com where we're helping people with leadership and finally Joost store.com Echo Charles has His own

little activities going on call it an outfit sure little system sure so that's what we're doing and thanks to everyone for listening in thanks to our police and law enforcement out there holding the line thanks to our military personnel and thanks to everyone that is out there trying to make their little part of the world a little bit better appreciate it until next time this is Jason and Joo and Ekko out