The Disturbing Case of the Chief of Police Killer

This is grant hardin 48 known as a loving family man to his devoted wife linda and their 16 year old daughter grant also had a long but tarnished history in police service in 1990 he joined the fayetteville arkansas police force as a patrolman where he spent a year until he was fired he then transferred to huntsville where he also spent a year as a patrolman Before quitting in 1993 he transferred once more to eureka springs arkansas where he advanced a field training officer he stayed there until late 1996 when he was allowed to resign after

falsifying a report after almost 20 years he then reentered the police force and advanced to police chief in gateway arkansas at the time of his arrest he was working at the northwest arkansas community Corrections center in fayetteville on february 23 2017 hardin pulled up beside the truck of james appleton who was parked on gan ridge road in gateway arkansas and shot him through the head another driver heard the shot and easily recognized harden having known the other man for most of his life after killing appleton hardin returned home and took his family out to dinner

although he was visibly upset he wouldn't tell him what was wrong Instead he only told his wife just know i love you god will take care of you on their way home they were stopped at a roadblock and hardened was taken in for questioning right hand turned over for me perfect perfect thanks sir okay let me see the right back of your hand if you'll turn your hand back over yep Thanks sir and do the same thing with the left palm thanks sir hardin sits angled in a corner of the room his heavy breathing the

first sign of his distress the second is the nervous tick which causes his head to jerk sharply to the side he manages to control it when detective chamberlain enters the room and prepares to give him a gunshot residue test After being searched for weapons he is allowed to use the restroom before questioning begins you don't have any weapons on you do you okay let me search you real quick if you place your hand up on the wall let's go bathroom okay okay there's just keys i'm gonna leave those keys right there for you okay so

where do you work at i had to park some community corrections okay okay all righty if you want to step Right out here i'll have that uh other deputy thank you if you want you know hey would you like to get the last one perfect thanks sir appreciate it so you know when we take people's bathroom we don't want to take the stuff in there oh yeah and stuff and whatever not that you would but it works yeah or that you even may just forget it in there on accident you know um That was something

i needed to get it from you are you right or left-handed right right okay perfect did you used to be a police officer somewhere or i recognized you but i wasn't 100 sure where i knew you from but somebody said that you used to be a police officer in gateway or something like that okay um at the constable you were constable here too for ben County yeah for ben count okay that's what i was thinking how long did you do that oh two years well i was elected one one two different terms but not together

not together so two on two separate occasions okay when they return chamberlain allows hardened to take back his keys casually chatting to establish A connection between them based on being fellow officers this is usually done to gain trust and to get the suspect to relax and open up a second detective enters and she silently sits down to observe harden is asked about his history in law enforcement and is forthcoming with his answers you understand this you've been through this before so i'm just going to read it to you anytime we bring somebody into The sheriff's

office we read this before we start talking to people okay and it's just your statement of rights for us before we ask any questions my duty advisor of your rights you have the right to remain silent do you understand that i need a affirmative yes or no okay okay anything you say can be used against you in court or other proceedings you understand that Yes okay you have the right to consult an attorney before making any statements or answering any questions and you may have him or her present with you during questioning do you understand

that yes okay you may have an attorney appointed to you by the court to represent you if you cannot afford one or otherwise obtain one at no cost you understand that yes um if you decide to answer questions now Without a lawyer you still have the right to stop answering questions at any time or stop questioning for the purposes of consulting a lawyer you understand that yes okay however you may wave your right to the account sorry you may await your right to advice and counsel and your right remain silent you may answer questions or

make statements Without consulting a lawyer if you so desire you understand that yes all i did was read this to you i put that you said yes to all of it if i can get you to sign i'm sorry i'll get you a sign there by where i put that x by signed right here sorry i know there's a lot of there's there's too many x's on my page that's my bad that's a different spot than where You yeah you pressure me and also on the other side over there um i'll get back okay uh

the date is the 23rd february 23rd and it is 9 17 p.m okay um here's the thing i want to talk to you about what what you've done today okay um can you just take me through when you woke up this morning to when you got stopped by the police out there in in uh What's now that wrote you're on i'm sorry i'm gonna drop it get rich i'm not gonna say anything after i've been read those rights yet okay why why don't you want to talk to me about your day i don't know what's

going on i am kind of sickly to what i'm here for and things okay so you don't want to explain what you've done today did you is there a reason behind that you read me my rights and i Don't know why and so what was the first thing said i have the right to remain silent okay so you're telling me that you don't want to talk to me right now i i'm going to remain silent okay cool hang tight right here for just a few minutes okay after being given his miranda rights hardin shuts down

his voice becoming monotone When asked to recount the events of his day he refuses saying that he will not answer because they have read his rights and claims to feel sickly about being there the detectives leave the room for several minutes to discuss their approach this is also a psychological move because it gives the suspect time to worry about what is happening and what information they might have If they are lucky this will make him trip himself up when he answers their questions hi i'm detective cordair i think we met once before apparently so yeah

okay i talked to my boss maybe i think i was confused or i may have confused you on what's going on here i can't tell you exactly why you're here and you being a police officer you understand that Um i need to rule you out as a suspect in a crime that's been committed and that's why we got you here because we need to talk to you find out where you're at does that make sense yes okay so i i don't know if i scared you at the beginning or what but that's why i was

trying to and i can't you see you see the position that i'm in i can't tell you why you're here but at The same time i need to i need to rule you out into something does that does that make sense entering the room detective chamberlain proceeds to explain that he can't tell hard on why he was being questioned and tries again without success to get him to relax hardin remains adamant in his refusal to answer questions as a former officer he has to know that this is only making him look more Suspicious the longer

he refuses to cooperate he also hasn't requested a lawyer which makes the job more difficult for the detectives legally they cannot force them to answer any questions so they must proceed carefully if they're going to get any answers harden is possibly stalling for time while he tries to think of a convincing story but it is more likely that he Knows that there is nothing he can say that won't incriminate him or be disproven i mean or would you be willing to talk to me about your day knowing that i need to rule you out of

something or i i'm just i'm at a loss here and i need to i need to i need to clear you from something and if you didn't do anything wrong today you have nothing to worry about and that's kind of where we're that's kind of where We're at what does that mean yes i i would have liked you but before yeah the rights were read so okay not knowing what's going on yeah yeah and you understand as a detective we have we read those rights to everybody who comes in here it's not just you but

when we interview you know kids and it's everybody once you come into our facility we that's something we have to do it's not something It's not just something we're doing for you it happens to everybody that walks through this room and talks to us because i mean you know it's just like anything else that we do we have to we have to cover all of our bases and that's what we did by reading you those rights so we need to know i mean does that make sense i don't i know you've been a police officer

for a While now so you've got you understand you know how how everything works and so i've got to rule you out as a suspect and if i can't you know if i can't do that then we're at a standstill does that make sense okay so where what happened today where like can you walk me through your day about what happened today i have to Remain silent okay on that okay so you're not right okay so you're telling me you did do something today that was wrong then is that what i mean is that what

i'm getting at i mean i'm just okay so you're you just don't want to talk to me because i don't understand what you know They snatched me up out there and then nobody told me anything i don't understand okay what why i couldn't be told some what's going on and and okay so did you i guess my question is this knowing what i just told you okay i guess if it was me and i was you know if i was in your position i'd be like hey james i did this how was That or grant

i did this i was at you know here here here and here and i would just be done with it and that way you can get out of here but at this point like i can't clear you from this because you could still potentially be a suspect does that make sense like am i i don't know if i'm not explaining it right or what what's going on Once once the rights have been read i have to own it says i have the right to be silent yes okay i i don't know i don't even know

what to say at this point you realize that i'm trying to help you out here i'm trying to get you out of here quicker and you're just sitting here Well am i free to go then no you're not free to go why because i've got i've got to get to the bottom of an investigation a very serious criminal matter okay okay and right now you're a potential suspect in that does that make sense i i don't understand why i'm a suspect though well that's for me to know and for you to tell me why you're

not a suspect This is your time to kind of help us help you okay tell me this is okay so is just tell me this i know you're a police officer before right you're you're a police officer in in gravity i mean not gravity but in gateway it's an easy yes or no I i'm being silent well i can see that where do you live at we can do this all night i mean it doesn't bother me you're going to continue to be a suspect until i find out otherwise okay after several attempts to get

him to change his mind and make a statement hardin still refuses he asks if he is free to leave but is told that he is a potential suspect Still feigning ignorance he asks why he is a suspect this is where it feels like the detective is pushing against the edges of the law by claiming that hardin has to show why he is not a suspect this is not true hardin has evoked his right to silence and is not legally obligated to answer any more questions normally when this happens the suspect is either charged with a

crime or is Released possibly sensing her partner's frustration detective cordero intervenes in a gentle friendly voice she tells hardin that this is the time where he needs to help them help him she is a direct contrast to chamberlain who has been sharper and more aggressive with hardin it seems to be a classic good cop bad cop setting which serves to throw hard enough balance and also to see which Approach he responds to best after once more repeating his intention to remain silent the detectives leave while cordera is calm her partner is visibly frustrated and may

be having difficulty controlling himself enough to proceed with the questioning this can be dangerous in an investigation because a lawyer can easily find a way to declare any confession during the interview inadmissible if it is gained by coercion Force or intimidation hello sir what's up i'm looking for a detective you may get afraid well i just i'm ready i need to go you need to go where home or get ready for work a little bit okay we'll just have a seat and i'll get again for you okay all right thank you anything else no i

just i hate being I hate uh not being able to talk but after usually after they read my rights well or you know after you reach after they read me my rights i just feel like i need to be silent what do you mean well just that's that why how come nobody asked me anything or told me anything before we got here or anything not necessarily you you've been real Good to you yeah well i mean i i was just taking you up here you know what i'm saying i mean they asked me to bring

you up here so um the detective is the one that has all that information you know what i'm saying he said he didn't give it to me oh he did right now yeah oh okay um i mean i i what time do you need to be back so well i usually get ready for work I listen i try and leave by 9 15. let's see well that my head's all screwed up now 9 15 9 30 so i can get there and sign in before uh 10 45 10 45 yeah you got to sign in

yeah okay all right um so you just want to get out of here is what you're saying yeah okay if yeah well i Would like to help but i don't know what's going on and i it i mean y'all put yourself in my shoes and maybe you've been there before it just kind of makes you sickly or you say what's scared or something sickly yeah well i mean i'm i mean you you said that you you know didn't want to say nothing so yeah and like i said They i would love to give you the

information but that's one way above my paygrade you know how that works i understand yeah so i try to be good to you you know get you what you need or whatever so well okay i just need to go if they're through okay okay i'll let them know okay do you need anything else uh yeah i'm fine you sure thank you yeah yeah sure oh but okay but i just uh Thank you that's it that's it for now okay i'm just ready to walk on all right you want to take me back home um i

think your wife may be coming to get you or something i think you're married right yeah yeah okay okay yeah i think she may be um coming up here to get you i'm not really sure though okay i mean they tell me about as much as they tell you You know how that is yeah i know it's just boy right so hopefully you don't want to be that guy i mean you know i don't be that guy yeah but well i understand what you're saying i mean like i said if i'm just weird i'd like

to help but well i mean i think you can you know Right right i mean i think you can but that'll i mean you don't obviously you don't want to talk to me you know but those guys i'll uh i'll figure out whether i don't know where they went but i'll figure out where they're at and let them know that you're trying to get out of here all right so and let them know that you want to help great all right okay all right thank you while alone in the room hardin checks the doors and

calls out to an officer Outside although he knows he isn't supposed to leave he tells the officer he has to get ready to go to work this might seem like strange behavior under the circumstances but it gives him an opportunity to probe someone new for information it's worth the risk to see if someone lower on the chain of command might not know he isn't supposed to have any details or may let something slip by Accident if that was his intention it doesn't work the officer leaves to look for a detective hey [Music] i'm just ready

to go okay and i'm not i'm not ready for you to go yet so you're not gonna be able to go i've got other things that i'm doing right now so did you need to talk to me or did you Like what was the deal oh i just wanna i was gonna go oh no you're not gonna go okay yeah no you're not good okay perfect thank you chamberlain returns and once again hardin asks to leave the detective denies his request although technically he should either charge harden with a crime release him or bring in

an attorney [Music] all right okay that's all right detective cordero is talking to your wife right now i talked to her a little bit so i kind of got a timeline of where you were and where you weren't today um i'm not we all know what happened okay my thing is i'm trying to get your side Of the story okay i don't want i'm trying to think of how to wear this delicately i'm not trying to get you in any trouble i'm not trying to get her in any trouble okay you've got little daughter 16

who needs her parents okay i know what was said at dinner time i know i know everything okay I need your side of the story okay i don't know if you've had a problem with this guy for a while or and this was an accident or you maliciously chased him down or what happened but if i don't get your side of the story i won't ever know okay you know i know i wouldn't i wouldn't be talking to you Right now i wouldn't be talking to them right now so i want to give you the

opportunity to tell me what led up to what happened today and if i came across as being rude or upset or whatever earlier i'm sorry that's not what i'm trying to do i'm just you're fine i'm just trying to get up to what happens or what's going on Okay but uh i just have to invoke my all right okay so you're telling me that you don't you don't want to give me your side of the story that's what you're telling me that i've gotta i've gotta i've gotta put together what your wife is what the

crime scenes told me i mean what i'm saying is i have the right to remain silent that's true you do i'm not saying i Don't want to tell you anything or anything or help you guys or anything i'm just saying i um you told me i had the right to remain silent that's true i did just because i suppose you have the right to remain silent doesn't mean you have to remain inside i know but uh apologies to you no that you don't have to apologize no you don't need to i Know you don't i

am well i it's my right to remain silent okay and that and i'm telling you that you're right but at the same time if i don't if you don't walk me through what happened and why it happened then there's no way for me to get it's like this it's like this you're writing a book right or writing a book You got chapter one you got chapter two in chapter three chapter one is what happened today what started out today how your day started chapter two is what led up to the incident and chapter three is

you telling me about what happened to lead you up to that because i don't have any of that information i know you went to eat you Know out tonight i know what you said at dinner i know that you went to lowe's afterwards i know everything but i don't know what caused the incident i don't know and if i don't know that i've got to assume the worst and i don't want to assume the worst i don't that's not my job that wasn't your job right That wasn't your job to assume the worst your job

was to go do a job collect facts i mean you know what a police officer does you know what a detective does you bend that i need this whole piece so i can collect it all because if i've only got bits and pieces it makes you look really really bad really bad and i don't want to do that i don't i Don't want i don't want you to look bad and i don't know if you think i'm trying to to trick you or do whatever but if i don't collect all the the pieces that i

need i can't get your side of the story and that's the issue that i have and i don't know what i don't know what's holding you up i don't know what's holding you up from telling me your side of the story Do you just you just don't want to tell me your side of the story i'm just i'm just silent i know i get that i understand that like that part you've made completely clear you've told me several times well i just i just i'm gonna remain that way okay i guess i'm having a hard

time understanding that okay okay i'm sorry okay i you know what there's no reason for you to be sorry I think i think later on you're there may be a reason for you to be sorry but it's not right now you talking to me and trying to get your me trying to pull the truth out of you is that's no reason to be sorry still pressing for questions the detective says he already knows everything that has happened and has evidence Harden will not budge he apologizes several times but will give no details about his day

or any reason for his crime the investigation is at a standstill do you realize that you're looking at some very very serious charges here no okay i know that okay well you are i can tell you that much and if it was an accident it was an accident and that's all it was but if You intentionally went out to hurt somebody that's a whole another story it's a whole nother story okay i'll let you think about it i'm i i'll give you one more chance here in a few minutes and i'm like i'm not going

to talk to you anymore i'm telling you that well what happened you know what happened i'm not going to sit here and play games with you i'm not i know i know you know We have witnesses that put you there the two cars that drove by look man i'm not i i just want to know why it happened okay you realize you did it right in front of somebody well no you let them get around you but they they physically id'd you like i don't i don't look man i'm done telling you my side of

the Story if you would like to talk to me about what happened and what you know what happened out there then i'm above that but if not i'm i'm going to sleep good tonight regardless of whether you want to talk to me and tell me what happened or not i don't think you will honestly i don't think you will okay think about it for a few minutes and i'll come back in an effort to get hardened to speed Detective chamberlain uses what could be considered a leading tactic by saying the whole thing may have been

an accident and could be cleared up with an explanation both of them know this isn't true this might have worked on someone with no police training but harden knows that his only chance however slim is to remain silent he's left alone with the possibility of being held all night in the hopes that It will get him to crack your wife's about to leave she wanted to give you a hug before she left are you good with that all right i told her that it was fine i don't have any problems with it just come on

i'm sorry youtube hardin's wife linda who has already been questioned is leaving for the night she is requested to be able to hug her Husband first and chamberlain allows hardin to see his family a smart move his wife might beg him to speak or just seeing her might be enough to get him to speed the process along in an effort to spare his family even more pain his wife and daughter enter and he hugs them awkwardly telling his wife that he loves her and assuring his daughter that it would be okay neither one of them

seems to believe him I just thought i'd check my game do you want anything to drink or do you produce a restroom well i yeah i need to go pee i can't yeah that's all right yeah let me work it out okay you want something to drink too some water that helps yeah i pretty have to get something no i don't mind all right let me just see if i can take you back okay thank you hey someone said you need to take a Bathroom break man yeah come on thank you yeah going that way

you ever been up here before yeah i've got used one up there anything anything to eat or anything sure but i started to move that while ago and i thought a better knot yeah just a little cold maybe a half degree up or something see what it does There i was afraid to touch it we'll see how it does thank you all right i'm getting ready to think about laying down up on that desk but it's awful hard yeah i don't know if you'll be more comfortable up there than what you are now can i

get anything else no that's good thank you okay all right Well can you help me understand how i got to this point i don't know i don't know man i remember being on patrol and running into you one night help me out on a call back me up oh what that it was way back in the oh gosh it's been almost i guess almost three years now wow Yeah something like that but you guys are always good to help us help help me too yeah absolutely brad he was always right there man oh absolutely i

worked on his shifts he always had my back but i just understand how we got to this point yeah me neither huh well i'm here to listen you're willing to talk i'm just ready to Go to bed this time detective cordero returns alone since hardin has so far refused to speak they might have decided to capitalize on the fact that most suspects will be less on guard with the woman some believe that they are safer more understanding others believe as if they are inferior and more easily pooled these feelings are often subliminal Making this choice

all the more effective she immediately begins to build a rapport on them based on a shared work history she reminisces about a time when he had supported her on the job this may or may not have actually happened but it successfully plants in his mind the idea that she has his back and is on his side i don't blame you I don't blame you me too me too and we could do that you just talk to me well i just have to since you read those rights i have to state i have to do the

right well what what's the difference do you know the difference no what's the difference between knowing what the paper says and Telling you know especially if it clears clears you out of everything i mean yeah like the way i look at it is regardless of something happened or not and if it did if it was an accident tell me like let me help help me help you like i want to know what i can do or what happened today to be able to explain it later i don't Know what happened today i just need to

you know people are going to have questions your family well i have questions well exactly so so why can't we figure this out together well we can but i've been left in the dark on everything since well the thing is i can't there's certain things but you know there's certain things i can tell you and i Can't tell you but when you start to tell me what you did today starts to clear up things once you start telling me i can start telling you that's how it works let me help you you have to help

me first that's why yeah of course so i can figure out what happened and what you were doing today i mean i ready to talk to your wife You already talked to your daughter who's really sweet by the way she's a really good kid so the only step left is to talk to each other and figure out you know come get down to the bottom of it what happened today okay why was today any different than every other day but until then we're kind of just stuck okay so you want to talk about it All

right well when i'm looking over here i know i know and you know what it says and i'm not here to trip you up i mean i'm just being straightforward with you i just want to start from the beginning of your day and work our way down fill in all the spots for me so i can understand we can start from the very beginning i mean i know you probably slept in because you work nights i work nights Pressing hours for almost four years i understand how that sleep schedule is you know sleep so i'm

sorry i missed it you could oh absolutely it doesn't matter if you switch the day shift schedule your sleep's still gonna be messed up for a while i still fight it every once in a while did you sleep in today yeah i bet you did you could go to work tonight huh yeah yeah What time did you get oh boy that's usually what time i got up to i'd sleep in as long as i could round noon did you get anything done today no no no do you watch anything good on tv usually that's what

i do i'd eat and watch tv i'll whip myself up a little bit anything good see my whole stuff oh yeah on tv you Watch the same episodes do you have a specific tv show you would wake up and watch well we watched the feeling my wife always has it on the i can't remember what channel it's called right now tv land oh okay what what should i plan on that like amy griffiths and stuff like that yeah yeah i think that they've been painting they're playing a lot of bash oh okay so i'm not

too crazy about that It's a little before for my time i haven't really watched any of that i don't even i couldn't even tell you what it was about yeah it's a korean oh yeah doctors and and have a like a field hospital at the korean war oh okay all right it's really just kind of a comedy okay well fresh not too bad does your wife Like that oh yeah i think she may watch other stuff better yeah well i guess that gets her by until something better comes on right yeah so did you watch

that today was that on today yeah any movies anything good anything else oh see they had uh otherwise they had crashed And i think and then we watched good and smoke okay yeah and then uh watch the mad max movie deciding to take a more roundabout approach cordero leads with comments about his sleep schedule hardin responds so she presses a bit more talking about his television habits And what he watched that day this may seem inconsequential but questions like this can help officers establish a timeline and can catch suspects in a lie if for instance

the show had moved to a different time slot or if the times don't add up when describing the rest of their day arden becomes more comfortable and rambles on about his morning is it the new one or the old one that's the old one yeah i've seen the new one They just came out late last year well it didn't make sense then did it no yeah i didn't really i guess i should have probably started with the first yeah it's kind of crazy isn't it well my daughter had seen that so i got her the

other other one to try and get her up to speed because i couldn't tell you what was going on even if i wanted to yeah so is the first one good too Oh well it's kind of a big dated you know yeah so do you watch some tv do you have anything good for breakfast and some frosted flakes hey that is by far my favorite stuff i don't know no [ __ ] my belly and i think oh really hey i love frosted flakes i don't know why my kids will grind at me because they

think it's too healthy but i don't know frosty plate What else did you do there anything fun get anything any any chores around the house no just kind of lazy lazy day for it yeah just watch some tv [Music] no household no household chores your wife didn't make you do anything today not today well i made her pills up today for does she have a lot of health problems Yeah she has a lot of health problems or actually got hit by that drunk driver up there between pete ridge and 172. yeah easton yeah you can

remember david mustin's old house where the mustangs will place there you know where what i bet you i don't know you know what the guy has david henson has all those uh Homemade trailers he's got like a uh a little stage coach and all that stuff right by the highway still mustings have it just right in front of that they got hit by that hit by a drunk driver there yeah and then of course i don't know whatever happened to that i think pete rich probably bought it boston and uh it's a sad situation I'm

glad she she ended up okay though yeah basically flew her to uh washington regional fayetteville and flew madison my daughter to what they did flyer they took her by regular ambulance to mercy and i thought that was around it was pretty rough wow so you made up her pills you have to Like do it by the week put them all together for them yeah weekly yeah oh i couldn't imagine she's a strong woman she's a strong woman slowly harden starts to progress to actual movements he describes organizing his wife's medication for the week and goes

into a long story about how she had been hit by a drunk driver cordero uses this to her advantage and instead of Cutting him off she expresses concern for linda this reaffirms her position as a sympathetic figure as most people are more likely to trust an individual that seems to care about someone that is important to them no wonder you let her watch whatever she wants onto you yeah i don't blame you on that well you're probably that late at your house huh i'm Okay so well at least you got a day off from household

chores so that's nice yeah did you just prep for getting ready for work tonight just pretty much just running around be a slob there yeah did you get anything done outside today it was so nice today it was beautiful yeah i know it was like 80 degrees or more it was amazing outside what's the Deal i don't know it's messing with my allergies today though mine too that's part of my uh but my my eyes would be all itchy and stuff oh yeah mine too and then i was sitting in that car while ago not

brian's car but the other one so that i think it was an old car oh yeah anyway but um i was sitting in there like that for a little bit and i started sweating in for me to get my Eyes on the front door and i think i hopped up okay no i think we all know better than did you get an experience outside today at all not really no oh my gosh i know did you a little bit at least get outside do any yard work today anything like that no Uh see said the

chickens oh did you chickens and threw some seed out some grass seed out there in front of the front porch oh yeah cordero's efforts are starting to pay off as she has now gotten him to admit to going outside which is a step forward from his earlier claim of doing nothing But watching tv he tells her that he went out to feed the chicken and spread grassy which lines up with what his wife has told them in her statement does that take a long time i've never done that before you know i had the dog

my dog used to be on the leash but he runs off oh he doesn't i have to have him on the chain he's in the house or on the chain usually so And i hate that because he's running you know he likes to run and stuff but he you know you're not supposed to have dogs loose anyway and he just goes and goes so i moved him in the backyard now but he was uh i had him on that post in the front yard and he would get to run and then he'd scratches scratch the

ground up like that And uh he just made a big mess big bear spot out there so i threw some grass out that i bought up and uh i think you got a dollar general oh really is that pretty time consuming to do all that i feel like that would be hard is it pretty simple you just throw it out there you don't have to have like a pour water on it well if you do it right it might be but I just i didn't know if you had to have like a you know one

of those machines that you lay it out for you you know what i'm talking about a spreader yeah something like that yeah how many chickens you got oh let's see i think i've got four hens and three roosters oh wow i'll let those keep you down yeah i've Had a lot of uh well not really i mean i've been keeping them up too but because they get out there and then uh the a lot of coyotes and and raccoons and things have been getting them yeah and uh i'm thinking maybe a fox or two slipped

up there because somebody said they've seen some foxes out there yeah and uh you know all those big big hawks chicken hawks i guess come down and get Them and and uh uh who knows oh i've heard a lot i've never seen them you heard what they do don't they just like fly down and grab them and keep going well the owl the hawks but the house they get up on the it's the middle of the night right yeah and if they're in a tree which most of Mine that have disappeared we're in a tree

instead of getting in there little roost i have in there for them and they uh so they're sitting up there like this is the branch okay hanging onto the tree and uh or tree limb and they're sleeping or whatever but who now get up there next to them and then you get right up on it and they just scoot over i mean this is Stupid okay no but but uh uh then they're sitting there so they're sleeve and they just keep it just keep getting up next to them until they scoot off the end of

that branch and they hit the ground and it bounces on top of them and well my grandpa had seen it happen yeah told me about it and then i've seen what Looks like the ends of it you know yeah and uh so i anyway so we've had problems with that and and uh another buddy seeing where the fox is i mean the raccoons will get up there now stick their hand through the wire and grab them by the neck so what did i say fox wrecking yeah the raccoons and stuff so We've got all kinds

of predators up there and stuff yeah it's pretty far out there so i would not be surprised well we had like uh i think 15 or 16 chickens or whatever and then we're down to the four hens and really only wants the ends stuff yeah when they hatch and have babies sometimes they're well most of the time they'll Get the babies no he talks for several minutes about his chickens which is the most verbal he's been since the beginning of his questioning detective corneiro allows this knowing that the more comfortable he is the easier it

will be to get him to answer an important question without him thinking about what he is saying no i'm just saying that you're gonna end up with a lot of roosters Yeah so it's like and how we do this and that i can't do that at my house you know because they're all pets so i gave some away and then uh some of them got that well they just started disappearing about oh um i mean remember october november so i just started keeping them up all the Time feeding the water what time did you get

out there and feed the chickens today all right afternoon this afternoon yeah probably oh i think one or two o'clock yeah or something like that that was beautiful today beautiful so you feed your chickens and start laying the seed down on the grass well let's see Oh yeah i think just right after that i had that bag sitting up there and i thought well i better get that out there might as well enjoy this day thank you yeah i thought if it's gonna be like this maybe it'll grow because yeah hey and maybe i mean

we're supposed to get rain this weekend so Really yeah yeah it's just me somebody says it's supposed to be nice yeah it's supposed to be nice i think um well today is pretty and i think friday's supposed to be pretty saturday i think it's going to go to like the 60s and then saturday night i want to say there's probably like a chance of rain like 40 percent somebody said it's supposed to get down To 25 degrees saturday i'm not ready for that morning i'm not either i'll be getting sick i'm already working on that

so i'm not ready for that well so what'd you do after you got your chickens fed and all your seeds laid down i just went back in the house oh yeah did you do anything when you went inside um played on a computer oh yeah Sometime in there anything good any games no just a stupid game i played what's it's not a game like this it's just a game that has like uh uh you'll be say you're england or something like that you know and then you've got to build up your country keep Somebody else

from attacking it no it sounds better than the time that you're playing like this okay is it one of those you have to like sign in and keep track of that kind of thing yeah i mean that's it's a good way to pass time i'm sure yeah i mean that's basically it yeah yeah absolutely it's like that's not tv so she's set for mash [Music] Since she knows from her earlier questions that he got up at noon she asked him what time he fed the chickens to try to get a fixed timeline he tells her

he went out between one and 2 and then spread grass seed before going inside to play a computer game this is helpful because if he has used any online functions they will be able to corroborate his claim and get a more exact time that's frame yeah Well that's cool you got your well you got some stuff done outside passing time inside what was your wife doing she's still watching tv yeah well what time do i go to dinner i know that didn't y'all do you meant to get back from dinner or come back from dinner

i didn't she already told y'all that i heard man oh i thought somebody had Mentioned it earlier like when we were still out on the road oh i thought you had mentioned it to somebody whenever you hold on yeah hey i don't even know what time uh was what time did we get to dinner what time did you leave the house for dinner do you remember no where did i go to eat can't go wrong there right right all right That's awesome well did you uh did you get a chance to at least freshen up

after laying the last seat down no if you went to yeah yeah that's crazy um dressed up nice to go lacie down oh i was probably ready to go eat oh gotcha yeah hey i wouldn't be surprised I would too it was so hot outside i'm sure you were sweating yeah yeah what'd you have on i'm just a little t-shirt uh what color was that gray i think [Music] oh man yeah i would be surprised if you got all that done outside and then didn't change right oh yeah well i can't get it that's not

a lot of me it's like walking to the Bathroom back out of here in 80 degree weather i don't know feel pretty good what did you got some stuff done today fend your chicken yeah [Music] so when you went back inside did you have some like was there time in between you guys leaving or did you leave pretty quickly i don't i don't remember just that In between uh laying the seed and going inside and playing the game um do you remember about how how long at the time it was before you know no do

you ever go back outside i don't know i don't remember um did you go anywhere today did you ever leave the house today yeah we went too but well besides no no I don't know maybe you got out and about sometimes i like to run errands that's my mom dad okay yeah yeah that i know if i haven't talked to him but i'm sure i haven't heard anything here did you see him today yeah no yeah i haven't talked to him but i haven't heard anything about your parents okay yeah they they look close to

you don't they yeah when you were outside today did you Notice anything different or weird going on or hear anything that was abnormal while you were outside leaving the sea and stuff like that no ever can see did you run into anybody anybody stop by say hi nothing no okay all right well i'm surprised you see anybody on the road anything like that It being so nice i didn't know if maybe anybody was out and about you're saying what are my allergies are killing me right now hardin becomes a bit more invasive when asked what

time he went to dinner he knows that giving away too many details about the period surrounding the murder is a bad idea so he tells her he doesn't remember something that can't be disproved She changes her question and asked if he saw anything unusual while he was outside he senses a trap not knowing if they have witnesses that might have seen him while he was working in the yard or leaving his home altogether he decides to clam up once more i saw you messing with the thermostat earlier well i messed it up right no actually

i didn't did you get it i was going to but then it started changing Things on it i mean before i touched it i thought everybody leave it alone so i asked him because it was a little cold a little cold it still kind of feels cold i know i'm a little chilly i'm not gonna lie i'm a little chilly i have a blanket in my office because i'm kind of in nature and stuff do you want some more water are you sure yeah thank you though no You're welcome well let me go check on

their process i'm going to chat more i don't know nothing else to do with them are you okay with that yeah that's fine all right i'll be right back just i apologize ahead of time that hey don't do this no i'm talking to you hey it's okay to remain silent you don't have to explain it i get it i enjoy talking so i'll be back [Music] no they're red the little red one yeah does it still see the food that's the store brand yeah i think it smells good and uh does it work it keeps

you from being swollen and it didn't seem to help that so i've been taking uh when i finally broke down and spent the money on uh flu names and i had that for prescription So it's called flonase all right is it like a nasal one yeah i'm too scared to do this oh that's not a like afrin or something like my doctor prescribed that to me because he's safe well i'm just scared to do anything well that's a it's just a little miss you do it once a day and it really helps that or there's

another one some people tell me amazing ex but they're not like afro or some of those that yeah they do Damage i mean you know take that when you're real bad sick maybe before you go to bed yeah but um what else i'm just hyper profit yeah it's my best friend not an advil my best friend were you at least able to taste your food tonight realizing she may have spooked him cordero eases up and allows him to talk about unimportant things like allergy Medication from an outside perspective this process appears to be a tedious

waste of time but one has to realize that instead of a game of cat and mouse this is more like reeling in a fish every time he struggles she gives him a bit more play in the line slowly pulling him in without him fully realizing it she transitions from the subject of medication to the restaurant not giving Away that they already know where he went for dinner and that his wife believed that there was something wrong while he is more than willing to go into detail about where and what he ate and even a long

discussion about cars it's interesting to note that he says nothing about his conversation with his wife that's the worst part to me i can't taste anything so congratulations that's bad but Did your daughter get steak too yeah she can yeah she can't stay right on that steak tonight usually but i don't know why she'll get something different you know she knows because oh wait she's not big on steak she used to get chicken or something she got steak tonight [Music] it's a i i i'm pretty big into chicken and soda steak but every once in

a while I like to change it up chicken feet can be so planned if you eat it too much so i completely i completely understand that i haven't had steak in a while though like good steak you can't really find that anywhere around here anymore but so did you drive tonight or did your daughter drive i know she mentioned that she just got Her driver's license oh yeah have we got our car yet yeah no has she been begging for on it not really uh she wants a truck bunker hey that girl you're doing something

right she wants a truck that's better in that car right the truck's probably safer cordero brings up the roadblock which is Where harden and his family were pulled over so he could be brought into the station he describes what happens but will still not admit to knowing why the police would be looking for him wow i guess it depends on what contractions so what happened when y'all are on your way home tonight y'all just ran into the roadblock yeah It wasn't i wasn't there when that part happened they just what'd they do when you guys

ran into well the guy stopped us and then he wanted to go down jones trailer park road and i said well i live two houses down here on the right he's let me ask the boss about that He went to the radio for a while or something right there and he said what's your name i said grant hardin and he said can you step out of the car and and then he put me in handcuffs and put me in the back of that one car oh yeah yeah he's a good guy he is he's a

really good guy he's a good cop i've learned a lot from him Or are you were y'all in your uh is it your wife's car the one that that she was driving and is that huh i'm asking please forgive me i'm just gonna have to stick back to my yeah i don't know anytime i'm just happy i know you are you're fine if you feel like i appreciate you yeah if you feel comfortable you don't have to say Anything but you're fine but i just hate being rude [Music] yeah no hey just a job i

get it i really do oddly pardon asks for forgiveness the strain may be taken a toll taken to life is psychologically harder than most people expect in fact it wouldn't be surprising if he Was still in a state of shock the reality of his actions may slowly be seeping in along with an overwhelming sense of guilt it hasn't fully overridden his self-preservation but it is becoming more difficult for him to contain once again he invokes his right to silence but instead of charging them or letting them go she backs off from the questions that's the

best way to pass time really It's getting late it is 2 11. what yes i was late but you've helped past the last 20 minutes yeah yeah i think i'll probably be half half asleep sitting in a chair out there while i was in here yeah oh i'm sorry no I wasn't asleep i was just kind of always half asleep and then you guys have something in here sounds like somebody sharpening a pencil goes on everybody i don't know what it is is it i got humming yeah it's just like a i couldn't run it

now i'm just saying all right okay it's not gonna happen it's probably not i can't remember if it sounds like a manual one or a i think it sounds like somebody's sticking a pencil In one of those oh like the electric one yeah [Music] when you make excuses go sharpen your pencil [Laughter] [Music] oh those are the good days the easy days oh have you read with your daughter yet robin yeah She could drive her she don't like putting it right in the car wasn't what she did actually oh no are you a critic i

guess i try not to be because she's a very good driver [Music] which car does she drive the bags that way oh yeah how many cars do you have a lot i [Music] just keep on with hopes of one day Fixing them my dad's a lot like that too lord he keep the oldest junkers and think that he'd fix them and then they just piled up he'd end up like optional or scrapping them or whatever he could it's crazy all six work at least or just do all six of them work what hey at least

you're never out of the Vehicle that's the best idea i know i don't blame you that's the best way to be i'm surprised you don't have one of those no trucks out of the whole all six of them there's two trucks um but not not ones you want her to drive really high trucks and these days you got to be careful With what you're driving help there's some crazy drivers in northwest arkansas yeah especially with the construction 149. i can't believe coming home from work every morning that there's almost always a wreck or more than

one or two more than two sometimes right before wagon wheel road oh yeah on 49 yep or the monroe And the same people that drive that every day no and that's that's the part that surprises me as you would think people get used to they're still not smart about it at all no i i know at all you have any uh any cool cars other than a honda civic forgive me again i just i just oh no you're fine i'm just curious You're good to talk too much i didn't know she had a headache and

see if i can find uh something no that's all right i'm sure we got a pharmacy around here somewhere i'm just wondering what's going on after a seemingly endless discussion about cars and driving hardin says he has a headache and wants to know if he's going to be charged well if i'm going to be charged with Something or we'll do something happen today that's why i wanted to know right now anything fancy i'm just uh what do you call it the paper again yeah okay why don't i talk about cars and talk about something else

if that means no i just don't i'm just going right do you want me to go it's not fun to talk to yourself You gotta enjoy a conversation with somebody i i feel no i get it no okay if it makes him talk comfortable we don't have to talk about that well i just feel that yeah i'm comfortable or whatever getting in here no i get it i get it i'm just trying i want to apologize but i'm just going to stick to my rights why are you determined Right i guess that's the main question

why are you here why am i here do you have any idea why am i here yeah do you have any idea why you would be when you guys tell me i will nobody told me anything when i sat in that police car for a long for deputies car for a long time and nobody told me anything i just didn't know well sometimes you gotta wonder if somebody Has to tell you first she asks him if something happened that day but he still professes to be in the dark and shows frustration that no one will

tell him what is going on it's hard to understand why they have been so evasive in their questioning there has been no mention of the victim of gun ownership or even if he's had a recent dispute with anyone this isn't standard but on the other hand this is a smaller city and they may Not have as much experience in this type of questioning as they do in areas with higher rates of crime like if you know something i know what reason y'all ask can i see what you're saying yeah okay that's kind of kind of

where you have to look at it sometimes not all the time but sometimes that's why you know when detective chamberlain came in here He wanted to talk to you about if you had what you had done today or if you had seen something happen or witnessed something happen or you know like you said some something happened today it was something really bad and if you witnessed it then it's something we need to talk about Because people witnessed you so but i want to give you the chance to talk you know what i mean like i'd

rather hear your side of the story versus anything else to me everybody deserves that right especially you're good you're a good guy you're a good person so I don't know i feel like everybody should have that chance until they're sad especially if something bad happened i would want somebody to give me that chance i just know about you to this point i mean i worked with you so you helped me you know had my back in a In a situation so it would be nice to understand from you but from your viewpoint why you hear

what happened or did you see something happen or were you put in a situation kind of walk me through it but that's your choice right everybody has a choice you have to be the one willing to Put it out there i don't know i feel like you've done this profession long enough you know how things go you're a good guy you're not a drug dealer not a child molester you're not you know anything like what you've dealt with what i've dealt with after over an hour hardin is finally Being asked more firmly about what happened

that day not by much though cordero keeps reiterating that he is a good man and that she just wants his side of the story so she can help him it's clear that she hopes he will just break down and confess but even though he knows there is no way for him to get out of this he seems determined to make this as hard for them as possible but i think today you could have You've dealt with a bad situation i just want to know what happened i'm sure a lot of people are going to want

to know you know want answers especially your family i would i do i want to help you that's the bad part i want to help you figure it out all i can do is sit here and say that I'll listen work it out with you figure it out together but you have to be willing to talk to me about it i'm a pretty real person pretty straightforward i know it's uncomfortable i know it's uncomfortable and working sitting in the room by yourself with people that you've worked with in The past knowing the situation but like

i said i wasn't there you're the only one who could kind of fill in the blanks at this point am i right you don't have to talk to me but i'm willing to listen we all make mistakes we all get it put in positions we're all human We all react a certain way we all have emotions sometimes we overreact sometimes we're put in situations we don't want to get put in like i'd rather you know have met you again outside having coffee instead of seeing you for the second time in here but i don't know

i think you just made a mistake today or somebody made a mistake today and i Think you know what happened i just want you to help me understand it i really do i want to understand what happened i think you know what i'm talking about i think you know that some things are going to come out and i want to be able to stand on your side and say hey this is what happened and he was up front he was honest And he explained it and cooperated does he need a lawyer what are you talking

about me i think honestly think you're the only one who can make that call but i think you're an honest man i think you've been an honest man i think that's the worst i'm just going to be quiet can you be Quiet i'll keep talking no i'm serious though i think you're an honest man i think you've done a lot of good in your life [Music] all you've done is spent your life helping others just like i have now you've had something happen and you're trying to figure it out but how are you supposed to

figure it out on your own like why not let me help you figure it Out help me understand what happened today so i can help you before everything else comes out so there's an explanation instead of it just looking bad because i don't want you to be portrayed like this horrible monster if you made a mistake you made a mistake you're no different than anybody else everybody's humor trust me i've made plenty of mistakes in my life Cordero has offered to listen to what he has to say and has even thrown out a lifeline saying

we all make mistakes maybe if he had planned this better or if he had been given more time afterwards to think he could have come up with an explanation that cast him in a better light something that might at least be able to pass as an accidental discharge or self-defense but hardin doesn't even look like he's Considering those options but i think you have a lot to live for beautiful family who i've had the privilege of talking to who they love you love them very much and they love you your daughter looks a lot like

you she's a lot prettier she's very pretty she's very pretty very pretty But the way i look at it is you're a man man men face their mistakes and they own up to them and they figure out what happened and figure out how to solve it and move on i mean i think you know just as well as i do people who Can admit they've done something wrong or witnessed something wrong it's kind of like a weight lifting off their chest you automatically feel better or at least in my experience i feel better i'm listening

i'm just now i understand like i said i'm i'm honestly here to help you i want you to understand that i wouldn't spend my time in here with you but i didn't Honestly think that you were a good person and that's something happened today that needs to be explained can you make a mistake today you don't have to verbally answer if you don't want to would you want your daughter to admit if she made a mistake because you're a good man and that's how you raise your daughter my dad would expect you to do the

same Thing because he was raised the same way and i honestly want to be there help your daughter understand after you help me understand i honestly feel like you want to talk to me and explain it in a last-ditch effort cordero comes across as almost desperate as she uses his family to try to get him to talk it's not out of the realm of possibility For this to work because most of the time a parent will try to do what they can to spare their child pain but harden knows that even if he answers her

questions it's almost certain that he'll never see his daughter without a wall of glass between them again there is no way to spare her pain there is no reason to talk hopefully not very wrong i'm gonna are you guys going to arrest me for Something i don't know hearing to them did something happen today how long can you detain me well it's an ongoing investigation what does that mean it means they're still looking into everything and honestly i need to apologize but i just kind of close my eyes no i get it it's okay Like

i said i'm just trying to figure out the holes you know let me get some water no i'm good thank you i'm gonna get some water yeah that's all right no i'm gonna go get something oh you're gonna get it all right i'll give you all that i'm gonna go get some water on it okay yeah let me take a cup with me just in case You want i can bring you something yeah that's fine no i don't worry about it i'm not being no i don't mind hey listen i'm walking that way anyways i'll

get you some more it might help you stay awake a little bit refreshing i'll be right back thank you hardin is left alone and it's hard to tell if he has disassociated himself so Much from events that he isn't bothered or if he is truly confused about what to do next awkwardly he brushes off the chair the detective had been sitting in then repeats the motion on the table as of taking some small measure of comfort in any action over which he still has control this scares me every time it does that i know i

don't get it well what was that air oh yeah what is Bad is before thank you yeah of course no i know before this was not locked and so people would hold that door and like if you forgot to walk it before you started talking like people walk in on here but anyways your last name cordero cordero yeah that's what that was yeah cordero yeah Those are pretty neat names thank you i appreciate that a lot of people mess it up did you think they're calling it nakana was the first name nakama what is that

um it's a mixture there's indians and then uh it's a western i think that's food yeah i mean no offense no it's a western brain it's a brain listen grant Think you were well aware of what happened today i think you know why you're here you're smart guy i think you know what you what happened today and i just really want to talk and understand so i can get on your level and figure out what the next step is Going to be i feel like you are the type of man who wants to who can

understand that three so no new information has been forthcoming detective cordero to all practical appearances just seems to be going through the motions with no real expectation of getting any results which is good because hardin has reached His limit to ecadero cordero i like you i like this fella that was a detective here i don't think i don't care about him that and stuff and i just don't know how that how to uh when i haven't had this happen before uh being brought in and interrogating for some so i don't i don't care but i

just don't Know how to how to i think how to be silent i think so sitting over here looking like a jerk no you're not honestly you are far from that you're very polite well i'm just gonna continue to rest my eyes and don't you know why you're here i appreciate you guys and i'm just gonna Well i appreciate you being polite it's kind of a nice alternative to what i've dealt with before kind of nice to talk to too makes time go by do you want to talk to me can i get a lawyer

i don't feel like i need to it's up to you but obviously something's going on and i need one it's up to you I just want to hear your side but i want to get along here okay i can't give you advice on that you know that aren't you tired i'm tired all right i'll be right back i'm gonna go get another drink water walk around for a minute wake up a little bit listen Here you're right thanks so sure i definitely think it's more old school old school than the electric one okay i can't

talk to you anymore because you asked for a lawyer he tells her that he likes both her and chamberlain that he is going to be silent the only difference now is that he is Finally asking for a lawyer unable to go any farther without violating his rights completely berdero tells him that means she can no longer talk to him and concludes the interview uh what i do want you to know is if you change your mind you know my name you can always ask for me okay You have to be the one to re-re-establish that

okay all right can you stand up for me all right go ahead and turn around [Music] hardin was subsequently charged with the capital murder of james appleton hardin never gave a motive for his crime but due to his confession during the trial he was given a surprisingly light sentence of 30 years While there was not much closure for the family of appleton who will never know why their loved one was murdered in cold blood another case was finally solved in a strange turn of events a 20 year old cold case was brought back into the

light with the results from hardin's dna sample which is taken from convicted felons in november 1997 amy harrison a teacher at frank tillery elementary was attacked and raped There were no leads and the rapist was careful not to touch anything giving reason for the police to suspect that he had some type of training in law enforcement with no potential suspects the case ground to a halt even though it was reviewed on a yearly basis hardin pleaded innocent but there was no denying the results from the dna test to avoid a life sentence he changed his

plea to guilty during his trial Judge robin green sentenced harden to 25 years on two counts of rape that 50-year sentence will run concurrent with his 30-year sentence for first-degree murder and he will have to serve 21 years before he is eligible for parole in spite of the overwhelming evidence against him and his own admission of guilt linda hardin still believes her husband to be innocent of both crimes and will wait in their family home for His release