The jogan Experience how do you perceive that force is it just energy or do you anthropomorphize it into like a being that you can you recognize and think about right but there's kind of no denying at least from a recognizable if you had to like look how do you quantify it how do you measure it there's no denying that evil takes place you know like the you you could come up with any number of massacres throughout history and you say that's an that's an evil act uh there's no question right right so evil is a
thing that's real if if there's good there's evil right yeah and then there have been many many things that people have done you're like wow good exists in the world there is still good so we know both those things are real things we just don't know what's the root of them all and is are there really Angels and Demons or all are those the scapegoats for this bizarre dance of Good and Evil that just exists in the world mhm well if you know if it weren't um you know for Adam and Eve eating the fruit
of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil yeah there wouldn't be any perception of Good and Evil it just be true or false you know which is you know the reason that Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden because in the beginning it was you know they were living in a world of either uh you know truth or falsehood you're right um and after eating the fruit of the difference between good and evil they became opinionated oh that's good I like it that's bad I don't like it but the issue of true or
or you know false got um you became um you know muddled yeah and they no longer were fit inhabitants of you know the Garden of Eden of paradise what's your take on Lilith yeah yeah Lilith well there's no mention of her in the Bible per se but there's a lot of mention of her in the Rabin literature that sprung up after the Bible yeah yeah the story is that I think after Cain killed Abel you know that Adam no no was it that after that I no I I think it was after Adam and Eve
were expelled from the garden you know that they stopped having sex um so Adam you know then was you sleeping you know with Lilith and they spawned iner able demons as a result of their relationship yeah and after a while Adam and Eve you know reconciled and you know they got the things together again yeah yeah you but Lilith uh you know plays a role in the understanding of evil in the world like it's the result of the spawn of Lilith what do you think Lilith was originally if it was a thing yeah I don't
know well that's called uh you know midr uh it's the explication of the Bible you know by the rabbis you know so it's what's called extra biblical yeah and I've only looked into extra biblical stuff to a certain extent what's the source of that stuff the imagination and I think you know the surrounding uh environment your societies your culture in influenced by the Greeks uh the Sumerians the acadians the Hittites you know there's a lot of you know accumulation of other you know cultures onto uh interpreting you know the story what that occur in the
text you a lot of uh you know fanciful uh things um entertaining things like for example Lilith is the you know source of the you know demonic entities out there yeah I found out about Lilith like six months ago oh really yeah I never even heard about it do you remember when we found out about Lilith somebody brought it up on a show right yeah who brought it up I'm wondering I don't remember but I was like what who's Lilith yeah was it Jordan Peterson it could have been yeah because he's a a keen student
of the Bible very possibly I I do not remember though but I remember thinking like wow like and then the original story like so when you're talking about the biblical translations of the Adam and Eve story that we're all accustomed to it's all the watered down sort of a strange translated version of the ancient Hebrew but you've read the actual ancient Hebrew version of it and how what did you get out of it like what did you well you know most of the translations of the Hebrew Bible are quite good like you know the King
James version It's you very accurate yeah it's a bit you know stilted is anything missing in the translation from when you read it in ancient Hebrew or do you think it's pretty clear it's you know fairly onetoone correspondence between the Hebrew words and the English translation you know certain things are interpreted through a Christian lens because the Christians wrote the King James Bible translation right yeah you know but uh you know the words and the grammar and narratives you know they're you pretty much accurate yeah you know that they spent a lot of time working
on painstaking uh uh you translations you know so you know there was a responsibility uh you know to do it accurately imagine that story like trying to like pass that one down for a thousand years yeah like yeah so there was only two people and then there was an apple right and a snake talked Eve into eating that apple and everything got [ __ ] yeah yeah it's a it's a very strange story is it very strange story what do you think it really was all about I think there were two people named Adam and
Eve for Real uh as if they were real H what do you mean by that well if you imagine that there was an Adam and Eve and you visualize the garden they were in and the snake and their interactions you know there you have it so you think the biblical interpretation is a literal recalling of actual events that took place no I don't think that well you know it's like if you smoke DMT and you enter into this world it's true it's overwhelmingly convincing it's got its own you know laws it its own you system
you know things are you know things are regular like certain things happen certain interactions take place yeah and you're there you're convinced it's real and you interact with it to the best of your ability mhm you so I think you know that's the case with the narratives in I'm in the text it's it's not it it isn't a me a matter of interpreting what they mean as much as understanding what happened boy that's obscure so it's not interpreting what they mean but understanding what happened yeah you know like like you know what did the snake
say to Eve so a snake really talked to Eve though it was as if a snake talked to Eve as if yeah so perhaps a psychedelic experience perhaps an altered state of consciousness no I think it was a case of a woman standing near a tree and a snake coming up to her and saying certain things and they have a conversation for real for real as if it were real well you know the stories have been told so many times right that's the problem and uh you know they they seem well if if you seems
like they're blaming everything on Eve too which is like a little suspect like thear out of it well the one who got punished without even having a chance to explain himself was the snake you know so God asks Adam what happened and he asks you know Eve what happened and he just you know lays it on the snake right yeah and the snake's like I didn't tell her anything I can't even talk this lady wanted to eat that Apple she blamed me well back then snakes could talk or in that world snakes talk how so
well you know they were the wisest of all the animals in the garden so you know uh they could speak right but you you speak of these things as if like we're talking about when you go to the zoo the monkeys swing from the vines this normal snakes talk well it's a bit of a paradox um yeah you like if if you let me ask you this you know so if you you know treat those stories as if they were real you're you're opening yourself up to this universe of Adam and Eve were in the
garden then they had Cain and Abel you know Cain killed Abel then you Cain had children and his you children begot the 70 Nations and then there was a flood because mankind was bad you know Noah and his family survived they all spoke one language afterwards there was on a tower you know there was Nimrod there was Abraham there was Isaac and Jacob you you know so it's this world uh which uh seems to be quite coherent quite consistent it all you know ties together it's quite consistent from book to book you know from narrative
to narrative you know it is a different way of looking at the Bible um it isn't you know Dogma like you have to do this or you have to do that or it isn't like a yian archetype or a psychodynamic you know wish fulfillment it's that this world that you know that is articulated spelled out uh in a very ancient very influential text so is it also possible that something completely different took place with that over time and over a oral tradition of who knows how many hundreds of years before they actually wrote it down
and then writing it down you're getting a version of the actual event that's very different than what really took place but you think about it like the version in the scripture MH and if you think about it in the version of the scripture are you are you thinking about it like as if this was an event as recorded or are you thinking this is a repr representation of an archetype or some sort of moment in human history that they're trying to recollect and and pass down um well if you consider yeah kind of of yeah
yeah well if you consider you know the text to be prophetically received you prophecy is communication between the Divine and man and you know the text was prophetically received I'm in fact you know Pho of Alexandria you know one of you know Terence McKenna Heroes uh used to say you know the most accurate historians were the prophets you know because they heard it you know directly you know from the initiator of the event the witness of the event the one who you could understand the event in the huge context you know so it's a you
prophetically received uh you know text which means it contains information received from a spiritual sort of level which you would think is a universal field of sorts how much have you ever paid attention if at all to any of that ancient Sumerian stuff like the Anunnaki and some some yeah I watched this really great uh documentary a few years back yeah you know but I you know uh but you know but I wouldn't you consider myself as knowing much about it right that to me is uh one of the weirder origin stories yeah yeah so
what is that origin story you on I on I recall it quite you're fascinated but you not the details well there's very there's multiple versions of it first of all the the story of this the the Fantastic story is told by Zacharias siten so Zacharias siten who wrote the 12th Planet and he wrote uh several other books he was a Biblical scholar and a linguist and he spent a lot of time uh studying the uh ancient Samaran text the cuniform and what he believes is that it tells a story of an ancient relationship between uh
a race of beings on a far dist Planet that's in an elliptical orbit and it comes near Earth every 3,600 years and that they had engineered human beings out of lower primates they had like accelerated our Evolution and um that all of what we know about the cosmos all of what we know about you know like they have these detailed I don't see the ancient tablets they have a detailed map of the solar system from 6,000 years ago right the sun in the center and all the moon and they have these really enormous beings and
these enormous beings were supposed to be these things called the Anunnaki okay and the literal translation is those from Heaven to Earth came uhhuh it's it's one of the weirder like if you love a great science fiction version of the origin story of humans it's the most fun one yeah it uh you brings to mind you know the sons of God uh you know the Benet Elohim which occur in the story of the flood and Noah the Nephilim too yeah yeah the Nephilim the refaim they were huge they were giants yeah men of renown yeah
yeah and they intermarried or they had you know sex with the daughters of man and you know from them you came her race yeah yeah you know so that story is interpreted or perceived you know through the lens of the Hebrew Bible too really yeah well you know that is a story in the text you before the flood uh is you know the B the Ben Elohim uh you know come down to earth they have con have intercourse with you know the daughters of man and out of and and out of those relationships you know
comes this you know race of giants that's the most fun one yeah yeah isn't it well they all got swept away in the flood you know so that's an interesting Dam you know turn of events well if you interpret the flood as the younger D's impact Theory which created the flood which lines up right right that does line up yeah it lines up TimeWise It lines up with how it would go down yeah just no evidence of giants that's the only thing we're missing if they found some Giants Well in the meantime you can assume
that the Giants were you know were real and and and you know understand their origin what they were like you what they did why they did it what the results were
