Feeling Behind in Life? Find Relief in Laura Belgray’s “Tough Titties”

anything that you put out there there's going to be somebody out there who doesn't like you or it and that is okay it's not going to ruin you and it is still worth putting out there and you were still worth being a person and alive and being 100 yourself hey it's Marie forleo and welcome to another episode of the Marie forleo podcast and marietv the place to be to create a business and life you love and look if you ever feel like you're a late bloomer in Life or that you don't have the drive or The Willpower or the discipline to be a success I think you're going to find today's conversation very refreshing Laura Belgray is the founder of talking shrimp and my partner on the copy cure she's been featured in Fast Company Money Magazine Forbes Vox and Business Insider she's also written for Fandango and Bravo and NBC and HBO and Nick at night Nickelodeon TV Land VH1 Lifetime and so much more Belgrade lives here in New York City and except for college has never lived anywhere else can you believe it her book tough titties is available wherever books are sold dude Belgrade you did it like congratulations so for everyone watching or listening right now there's likely going to be explicit language so if you're like super sensitive we're going to talk about some things you need to put your headphones in or just choose not to listen to this one but do not send me like dear Marie emails like why are you so unprofessional Lincoln no I don't want to hear it so back to you tough titty that's you know what we would say to them tough titties tough titties you got complaints about the language tough titties titties that's what we're saying honestly I have never been on a podcast that didn't have an e next to it for my episode yeah are you serious that's really cool I didn't know that good track record really good track record um so I know tough titties was tough titties to actually write and we're gonna talk about that but before we get into process and all the fun things what was the core inspiration to write this particular book and what are you hoping that readers get out of it yeah great question well as you know I always wanted to write a book yes yes forever and I wanted to write a book of my stories and I was writing my stories and I still didn't know what is this what like what is the theme what is the title what is this book about that was the biggest struggle for me and I found myself saying one day the the working title was new dork City because yeah coming a coming of age I mean that was how I thought it was shaping up like coming of age story of a dork Misfit in New York in the 80s and 90s and but then it was so much more than that and I found myself saying something that I say all the time which was well tough titties which is to me kind of the ultimate sorry not sorry for in my view or and in my life for being and not supposed to person like you want me to do things this way you want me to um drive a car learn how to roast a chicken have children tough titties you want you're gonna happen that ain't gonna happen you want me to do my business this way you want me to work nine to five tough titties right so that's that's where the impetus and the title came from and then as I was writing it and thinking about who's going to read this book what is it going to do for them I mean most of all I wanted people to laugh out loud and tell me um you kept me up till four three nights in a row thanks a lot and I'd say tough titties but I also wanted to give people a feeling of relief of like good I'm Not Alone um and feeling behind and feeling like a late bloomer in doing things the in taking the windy path in life or not defining success the way everybody else defines it yes so that's where it started to shape up when I realized like these are the themes of my book and this is what I want someone to get out of it when they read it yeah and you know you and I have known each other over 20 years now which is crazy pants it's our anniversary it oh my it is our anniversary oh God that's so cool that's really fun oh we should we're gonna have to do like lots of fun things about that but here's what's so cool about us and um I feel like we both have so many things in common and we love each other so dearly and we're also like so opposite in so many ways right so that which is awesome and like you're I think where we align so much is this notion of defining success on your own terms and being a little different and like also having very sophomoric humor and you know what I mean being 12 yes being 12 like all the time and like when our you know Stephen your husband and Josh they'll like say we're just like shut up like leave us alone it's so fun but um the process of writing this book which I always think is so interesting because as you and I know we have the copy cure we know the stats like I think up to 80 of people say they have a book in them and they want to write it and so many people I think it's 92 actually don't do it and people read your emails people engage with your writing like you have such a beautiful unique funny voice like you're brilliant as a writer and I know because we're super close friends this book was [ __ ] hell to get out of you so do you want to talk a little bit about that because again the impetus of the book is to help people feel you know less alone and if they admire you so many people like oh my God Laura Belk is writing and then they know you know how tough it was I think it'll make people feel better I totally agree I think sharing your struggles and the moments when you were crying and maybe considering giving back your book Advance yes we talked about that to people we did yeah it's um I mean it was so helpful to me to hear from you you know what I went through the same thing that book almost killed me right not legitimately but like soulfully and like you know ego-wise yeah yeah and this book almost killed me I mean you saw me it was a almost a full year and definitely a full summer of me blocking off every day for book it would say on my calendar book yeah that's it book writing day and I would open my laptop to a you know to the manuscript in a Google doc look at it for a minute and then get up and pace and then watch some Netflix and then watch some Vanderpump Rules um read a book that would either make me feel like I'll never be able to write a book like this or that was just garbage yep that made me feel a little better like cry worry my husband consider like oh so this is why people do drugs I remember saying to a friend like I wish there were a pill I could take that like just made me feel super confident about my writing and and um just let like so I would just power through it just sit down and pour out writing onto the page and they're like uh I think that's called cocaine yeah or um no there's the one like the Limitless drug with remember that movie did you not see that movie with Bradley Cooper it was like the whole Limitless thing oh my God yeah no I remember in like some it was I don't know years ago but it was like this pill that he took that made him like super and I think it's actually based on I don't know if it's Adderall or something like that I've never taken it so I have no idea yeah but I get it um but uh and I also remember just feeling because I love you so much and I know you so well like when it was so struggly and not being able to do anything yeah you know what I mean I was so stuck and and you kept reminding me like you do this every day like uh you know you write emails so easily and they're so awesome and um my friend Susie also who's British so she said it like though she said well you write emails like that you know you write emails every day what these are just emails with the spine and I was like but it's not it is not the same yeah uh I like you know this I had a lot of it had poured out of me for like several months I'd written all this stuff that I thought was really good and I had been kind of not really workshopping it but submitting it in this pod in this group of writers I was in but our instructions were only to give each other positive feedback like this is where it's really strong this is and I believe in this it's called the gateless method and it's awesome and it points out what you're doing right um and it does not involve the inner critic but then there comes a point and this point was you know came from my editor when you do when it does require some criticism and structure and so I handed all this my editor had said um you know handy give me a couple sample chapters by X date and she probably meant two or three and I had been working on all this stuff that I liked and I didn't know the shape of it yet didn't know where it was going really but I was like this is good stuff so I handed her more than two or three chapters I handed her everything that I had been working on that I liked and the book was contracted for 75 000 words that was supposed to be the manuscript length and what I gave her the working stuff was 85 000 words and she came back to me she kept calling it The manuscript I'm like no that's just the sample chapters but she kept saying referring to the manuscript and she was like the manuscript is a little bit all over the place where is The Voice here what are you trying to say I was like where's the voice I am voice you're asking me where's the voice yeah and she was like you know you're um your readers yes they say they want your stories they love reading your stories and anything that you write but they want your wisdom they want takeaways they want to know and that was really hard for you it was super hard to feel like like I had to go into the material into every chapter every story that I was telling and realize that it wasn't a story yet it was an anecdote and ask myself why am I telling this story what is the point here what do I want to say and sometimes it was not evident I didn't know why yeah like I don't know why I'm talking about this you know Adventure that my friends and I had with a world renowned director who was this a little bit of a sleaze bag and we got into a little thing with him um I'm like it's just funny like I just think it's a funny story and I had to find the meaning where's the meaning in this yeah I had to make every chapter Arc to some kind of meaning which is what we all have to do when we write when we're tell when we really want to tell a story you can't end it with and it was really funny in a fry voice right okay so let's get into some of the stories so you're like super brutally honest about so many things in the book but especially your younger years and it seems like there was some pivotal lessons that um carried you forward so you write the key to creativity business art self-expression and the kind of success I value is to remind yourself that life is not sixth grade in fact it's the opposite standing out is where it's at tell us more yes standing at it is where it's at and when you're this is when you're a grown-up in business or just in life itself like I think all of us learn especially in Middle School um that fitting in is where it's at that's you know when you're trying to get in so I tried so hard I had no idea yeah yeah and most of it was a flop but so what you're reading is from the chapter called Deb fishbone likes this and it is about me hate following my sixth grade bully on social media years later like in current times and um and what she did to me and it's you're pretty standard Fair it's enough she didn't beat me up right or anything like that but she's still my best friend and got me kicked out of my friend group and then the worst thing that she did um even that was horrible like it was a year of hell but I had written this piece for for English like a creative writing assignment that was and not at all I autobiographical story I like to say about someone named Liddy not Laura because it was totally not me who went to a different private school in New York City um totally not my school and I was really pleased with it so it was called yeah Lydia and me and I had it it was handed back to me probably with an A and I had it in the lunchroom and Deb fishbone my sworn anime grabbed it out of my hands while I was like hey hey that's mine and she started reading it aloud to everybody and um she just had a knack like a radar for your vulnerability yes your hot buttons and she flips to a page where it says I have good friends but I feel like I'm losing them slowly and she read it out loud and goes this is you and I was like what no it's not uh it's fiction duh you've never heard of fiction and she's like no this is you and I have never felt so called out in my life like just so very vulnerable and it was one of those moments that um taught me falsely but it's a lesson that I learned in that in that moment like it is not safe to be me it's not safe to express myself to stand out fitting in is everything standing out as death and I'm pretty sure that's why hey I stopped writing uh for a very long time like I just didn't want to put myself on the page and B I tried so hard to fit in for so many years and also also you know we all want to belong so yeah so I still love the feeling of belonging yeah I'm still always looking for that feeling that I call the Peach Pit feeling based on 90210 which didn't exist at the time but it was something I always wanted like of gathering they all gather at this coffee shuttle Malt Shop called the Peach Pit after school and I always wanted that feeling of like a group my group and belonging but as an adult I have come to understand and remind myself constantly whenever I have that feeling of like somebody's not going to like this yes someone's going to be mad at me someone's gonna you know tear me down for a saying I like this thing life is not sixth grade and us one person disliking you or several people disliking you cannot ruin you yes when you're an adult it can when you're in sixth grade yes it can ruin your life when you're an adult you're okay you just have to remind yourself of that and I like to say unless they sue you you and then they can ruin you or stay away from that yeah so you finished college and you gave yourself some space and some time and you wrote you write this I love it be a disappointment for a while it could be the best thing you do for your future what do you mean by that you know for me I love also talking about I'm like the queen of disappointment yeah one another thing we have in common but but tell me what you mean by that in terms of being a disappointment for a little bit yeah I mean that was based on my full year after college where I lived at home I lived at home till 26 so that was not unique um but I lived at home went semi-looking for bartending jobs I wanted to be a bartender I had this image of you know having like fistfuls of cash and making it rain and pouring shots down people's throats even though I didn't drink and like working side by side with like Tom Cruise and maybe Rob Lowe um your dream yeah open everything totally and having this wild social life uh I didn't try that hard looking for bartending jobs I finally scored one but I I spent most of my days um going out like you know my my day would start it my work day would start at like 11 p. m when I would shower get ready to go out then show up at my favorite bar hang out there till maybe four in the morning uh I again I didn't drink I was drinking Diet Cokes but I think everyone thought it was like the town drunk um and then wake up you know next day around noon eat you know ciao Corn Flakes uh in my childhood bedroom watching ABC soaps go to the gym by Lycra tops because you can never have too many Lycra crop tops for going out in 1991. and that was my and my my dad and my mom would both come into my room every day and say how's the job hunt going and I would say I'm pounding the pavement did you actually believe that like when I read that I was like Laura Belgrade I did because I did go out one or two days yeah with a stack of resumes under my arm and in a very work appropriate dress yeah and earrings yeah and walk up and down like Columbus Avenue and Amsterdam Avenue asking bar owners if they needed any help and that that took so much out of me I felt so exhausted and accomplished from doing that that I really felt like I was pounding the pavement and sometimes I would look I would open the paper and look in the classifieds and any job that appealed to me because I wanted something creative and like quote a word I I think I might have coined entertainmenty um it would say requires a self-starter or must be detail-oriented and I was like nope that rules me out um and and I learned that self-starter meant it was either printer sales or phone sex oh wow yeah yeah that's a whole different thing yeah so taking your time and really not being successful getting a job and being a disappointment for what for a little while what do you feel like that led to for you is there a bit of healing was there a bit of like recognition of what you actually wanted to do yeah well for one thing it left me open to an opportunity that I never would have been able to take my take an um advantage of if I had been out working a job like my friends who are you know paralegals and working in a bookstore and doing all the things you're supposed to do yeah um a friend called me at around 11 A.

M I like to say 10 but I think was more like 11 and was like sorry for waking I was like I'm not oh I'm not asleep I'm awake and she's like well I've got you know I'm here with this author Lisa birnbach who um wrote the Preppy Handbook which was a huge book back in that time in the in during the prep years and she's like and we uh we're fact checking her guide to colleges a new book that was coming out and she needs more fact checkers can you come in I was like today as I had planned to go to like a step aerobics class and do my thing she's like yeah we need you now okay I will get dressed and go in and do it and I did and that job first of all it was really fun it was exactly what I had kind of hoped for in a job and it was entertainmenty yeah um and it led to everything else in my life so for one just being home sleeping late and available for that opportunity uh that that's the reason I have the life I do now but and who knows it's a sliding doors thing yeah I could I would have just a totally different life yeah if I'd pounded the pavement the way I should have but also I do feel like I had that year under my belt I never felt I didn't feel like oh I didn't have time to just loaf around and be me and I think I needed that yeah and I needed time to get a little squirrely and feel like I need to be productive so yeah I think it was healing but also it just it left a door open yeah for me for other opportunities and for an opportunity that really led to everything yeah that you have become okay real fast if you are loving this conversation then you're really gonna love my free audio coaching program called how to get anything you want you need it in your life you can go over to marieforleo. com subscribe right now it'll give you three steps to turn any dream into reality let's talk about how both your parents are a source of inspiration and sometimes a cautionary tale like you saw both your dad and your mom right switch careers tell us about that because it seems like it planted a seed that it's okay to have a relaxed timeline and it's also okay to change things up which is very different than what I think a lot of the cultural messaging is yes and especially back then um so my my dad when I was little um and from like the 60s into the 70s was in Industrial Engineer for the airlines who worked for American Airlines and then Eastern Airlines and had great perks travel you know could hop on a plane stand by with my mom and us when we were really little first class sometimes and traded all that for becoming a therapist he realized that he liked helping people more than he liked you know tallying theft of little mini liquor bottles on planes which was part of his job and so he went back to school and became a psychoanalyst and you know the the drawbacks of that well there were a couple drawbacks one was that I got probed all the way up my butthole for my feelings constantly who constantly demanded to know my feelings he thought therapy was the only answer to everything he was obsessed with it obsessed with Freud um he called the book Letting Go Europe sorry it's called let's go Europe it's a travel series let's go Europe let's go whatever he would call it he called it letting go when I went off from the for the first time as a teenager um he's read into everything so that was a pain in the ass but what I saw was the courage to switch careers yeah um like he was in his 40s when he did and it was a big switch and pretty courageous and he had a good gig working for the airlines stable right stable benefits Etc it took him forever another late bloomer uh to write his PhD to write his thesis and get his PhD took him like 10 years and but another thing that I saw in him was this obsession with what he did for work that I wanted he was so into what he did that he never wanted to retire and he worked until pretty much almost his dying day he still had clients and he would say I never want to stop working and I always felt like so this was a positive and a negative like I won't settle for anything less than work that makes me feel like I want to do this till my dying day and I would do this even if nobody were paying me and then my mom partly and possibly inspired by my dad and pushed by him a little bit um she also switched careers in her 40s so she was she had her PhD before he did she was a musicologist and she had worked in the recording industry and then she taught music a little bit she wasn't really sure what she wanted to do anymore and she took those diagnostic tests he made her take a class on like finding your thing and what color is your parents what color is your Parish it tortured me in the late 90s oh my God I hated that book oh my dad would never stop pushing that book on us um and I think my sister and I used to joke that it was called what color is your phlegm because he would also ask that whenever we were sick uh so my mom discovered that she loved children's books and she was always a great writer and really good editor so she got into the publishing industry by way of an internship when she was in her 40s and can you imagine like right starting as an intern me too at in your 40s to say yeah I don't know anything about this industry I'm coming from a completely different world I will be an intern and I'm sure is probably unpaid unpaid and getting someone's coffee who's way younger than you absolutely like the humility and also just the clarity to know like I want to be in a different field and I'm going to have to kind of be really humble for a little bit and do this and and make it I I think it's it's amazing yeah me too and she's still she's 85 yeah and really still into children's books and she works on the um the bank Street children's book committee she was president of it and now it's just still very involved in it she is obsessed with children's books every conversation towards children's books it's another story but I have always been inspired by both their timelines felt like oh good I have time to figure out my thing maybe if this what I'm doing right now isn't it I still have time yeah I will find it eventually and find that work that I could do for the rest of my life yes even if I weren't getting paid yes so you know you're super super super honest in the book and I think one of the questions you and I have heard a lot especially from like our coffee care students um is like oh God how much of my own personal stories like am I allowed to tell like what if they're messy what if they're painful and the people that it could impact or that might be involved are still alive so you have a whole chapter on BJs that you gave in the early 90s and yes I just did say what I said so take that for a moment did and I know Stephen so well right we all spend so much time together but I never asked you this like did you actually talk to him about writing this chapter about all the guys you went down on before we actually decided to write it do you know what I mean like you're like honey I'm I'm because it's a lot like I have to say as your friend because I've known you for 20 years so I didn't know this part of you right in the 90s you and I were doing like very different things we sure were and I was like damn girl you talk about being lazy like that's not lazy like that's a level of ambition that I was like [ __ ] I didn't even know you had in you but did you talk seriously I was like go Laura say the job part of BJ's yeah is accurate yeah that's actually very true I felt like that's you were like yeah this is like a duty thing yeah um did you talk with him before writing that like not to ask permission but I know how beautiful your relationship is and you guys have so much love and respect for each other you know yeah it was nothing that he didn't know about sure already he doesn't he doesn't know the details He he'll still doesn't because that's the chapter that he skipped like he won't read that one he won't read that one I in the dedication I warn my mom not to read it she read it leave me like actually oh she said um it confirmed a lot that we suspected they would say what are you doing out till four yeah and I would say I'm networking you're networking you sure networking you were now I was networking um but did you but that was was it like a thought process because again we've been asked this question so many times and in different contexts right if there was some type of really traumatic experience some type of really difficult story um I just think it's always helpful for people to hear examples just yeah so that you have different things to bounce off of to find your own path and your own truth yeah so was it a concern for you or like no I definitely want to tell this I really wanted to tell it I feel like it for me it was really easy to write and I do feel like this is weird or it's maybe it'll sound dark or maybe not but I do feel like my dad dying in 2018 yeah freed me to write a lot um I did not want him to read this stuff yeah I didn't want my mom to read it either but so be it uh but I really thought about him I think in the back of my mind I think that was part of what was holding me back from writing my book interesting in general but I wasn't worried about Stephen um even though this is like there are people who will read it and think about him but it wasn't it wasn't happening it's not like it was happening when we when he knew me or when we were together yeah this was very very yeah like this was like the early days of all of us when we're partying and the hormones are freaking for many of us not all of us many of us the hormones are raging and you're just like yeah you know we're little animals like right right all over the place exactly and uh boy has he shared some stuff with me from his wife so over dinner I know sometimes we're having it unlike Stephen what's going on you know what I was doing when I was 12. right yeah we know um so I wasn't worried about that so much but I there were stories I told in it that I was worried about you know where I was a little nervous about certain you know one person or another reading it and certain people who were in that chapter I've changed their names but they're gonna know it's them yeah and so that made me a little nervous but I really enjoy sharing my truth honestly yeah like I love being honest in my writing and so there's very little that I won't put on the page about my current private life that's not up for grabs like that's off the table right but I think my past I also feel a little in a way like that was a different person it was a different time a different person I mean a lot of what I wrote made me think who was that person yeah you know it's so far from who I am um so in a way it felt like fiction yeah it's like a character yeah so one thing that surprised me um actually when I was reading the book was the baby fever chapter because I learned that you actually struggled a little bit with your decision not to have kids and like you and I you know we famous like we walk around all the time and you know we're both childless by absolute choice right and um and I just always thought for whatever reason I don't know if we ever really discussed it I always thought that you kind of knew that it was a no for you do you know what I mean like that was just your truth yeah but let's talk about how happy you felt when you actually checked in with Stephen do you know what I mean if you guys had that conversation like hey would you be okay if we didn't have kids and you're like yay we're actually not going for it yeah it was such a relief for me because I did spend so many years wanting to want them and waiting to want them and I knew that I didn't want them like put it down you know deep down I knew and I never had when someone was like you want to hold the baby I was like oh sure and then I would wait I'd be like okay help the baby yes that was fun what a sweet baby I never felt you know I I never had it's called Baby fever because baby fever is something everyone else had and our whole society has and so many of them right but not all of them yeah so many but not all but there's still pressure on everyone yeah to have baby fever and I know somebody who told me that um she told her doctor that she didn't want to have kids she was I think she was ready for she wanted a hysterectomy I think she had problems and um and her doctor said well you're too young you're probably going to change your mind yeah and so no one is allowed to know until they're past the age where they can conceive totally um so I wasn't given really any encouragement to come to a hard no yes until after I after I came too hard now and I was able to say I don't want them yeah and um did you have like experiences babysitting or anything because like I so I'm curious to hear what yours was mine was like that was actually my first job so babysitting was my very first job and I was super young I was nine but I was a very responsible nine-year-old which is probably not hard to imagine it's like running [ __ ] you know what I mean and I just remember after like a few experiences I literally could hear like both my inner voice and even my ego I was like there is no [ __ ] way in hell like I just knew I was like this is not my path this is absolutely not my path and then as the years went on and like you know I would have relationships not Josh and they'd be like oh I can't wait to get married and have kids I'm like do you have any idea like you're not seeing me at all because that's not on the table like not a bit and my mom was even like what's wrong with you like am I early in my early 20s forever I was like actually what's right with me like I'm super clear I I'm so envious or younger me is so envious of you for being that clear that you just didn't want them yeah because it was always posed to me as a someday yeah like someday when you have kids yes and I felt like oh God I hope someday is really really far off do you know who was telling me I was going to regret it the most who older men oh of course they love telling me what because I would make such a good mom I was so loving I was so caring I'm like yeah of course I am and no yes I just because you can you should right I mean you'd be you know I'd like to say to them you would be an awesome ferry boat captain why aren't you one you sure you don't want to be one you sure you don't want to become a professional wrestler because you'd be so good at it so I I really yeah just because you would be good at it doesn't mean that you have to yeah and it's such a big thing to have kids it's not just like oh I'm good at this so I'm gonna love it always um and I am I I feel like being on the fence was an invitation it was the way I expressed it I'd be when people said are you you know you're gonna have kids you want kids I'd be like no well I'm not sure I'm on the I might say I'm on the fence and that was always an invitation for them to convince me to persuade me that I would want them someday and I should have them and it's the greatest joy you'll ever know and um it's the only way you'll ever know true love yeah and I I personally feel like content with my off-brand faux version of love that I experienced in my life so I love you yeah so I'm going to ask you a question back to like kind of process and stuff so you you have this incredible memory Belgray and details come so naturally to you um like we've known each other for so long and you remember you'll be like remember when we did this and then you said that and you were wearing this I'm like I have no like I don't remember what the hell we did last week when we hung out do you keep journals like do you write in journals and do you write down details because I feel like for anyone who's like first of all wants to be a great writer right we talk about this in the coffee cure details details details are everything yes for Effective writing but especially if you're writing Memoir you want to write a screenplay anything like that so just curious about your process yeah well now for the last I'd say six years yeah I have been writing every morning sometimes little breaks um sometimes I break my streak but every single morning that I can I write in 750words.