- What's being developed in terms of treatments for stutter? - Yeah, so we actually accidentally came across stuttering in songbirds and we've published several papers on this to try to figure out the neurobiological basis. The first study we had was a brain area called the basal ganglia, the striatum part of the basal ganglia involved in coordinating movements, learning how to make movements, when it was damaged in a speech-like pathway in these birds.
What we found is that they started to stutter as the brain region recovered. And unlike humans, they actually recovered after three or four months, and why is that the case? Because bird brains undergo new neurogenesis in a way that human or mammal brains don't.
And it was the new neurons that were coming in into the circuit, but not quite with the right proper activity was resulting in this stuttering in these birds. And after it was repaired, not exactly the old song came back after the repair, but still it recovered a lot better. And it's now known, they call this neurogenics stuttering in humans with damage to the basal ganglia or some type of disruption to the basal ganglia at a young age, also causes stuttering in humans.
And even those who are born with stuttering, it's often the basal ganglia that's disrupted than some other brain circuit, and we think the speech part of the basal ganglia. - Can adults who maintain a stutter from childhood repair that stutter? - They can repair it with therapy, with learning how to speak slower, learning how to tap out a rhythm, so I said, and yeah, I'm not a speech pathologist but I started reading this literature and talking to others, that you know, colleagues who actually study stuttering.
So yes, there are ways to overcome the stuttering through behavioral therapy. And I think all of the tools out there have something to do with sensory motor integration, controlling what you hear with what you output in a thoughtful controlled way helps reduce the stuttering. - There are a couple examples from real life that I want to touch on and one is somewhat facetious, but now I realize is a serious neurobiological issue.
Serious meaning I think interesting, which is that every once in a while, I will have a conversation with somebody who says the last word of the sentence along with me. And it seems annoying in some instances, but I'm guessing this is just a breakthrough of the motor pattern that they're hearing what I'm saying very well, so I'm going to interpret this kindly and think they're hearing what I'm saying. They're literally hearing it in their mind, and they're getting that low level electrical activity to their throat, and they're just joining me in the enunciation of what I'm saying, probably without realizing it.
Can we assume that that might be the case? - Well, I wouldn't be surprised so that the motor theory of speech perception where this idea originally came, what you hear is going through your speech circuit and then also activating those muscles slightly. So yes, so one might argue, okay, is that speech circuit now interpreting what that person is speaking?
Now you listening to me and is going to finish it off because it's already going through their brain and they can predict it, that would be one theory. And I don't think the verdict out there is known, but that's one. The other is synchronizing turn taking in the conversation where you're acknowledging that we understand each other by finishing off what I say.
And it's almost like a social bonding kind of thing. The other could be, I want the person to shut up so I can speak as well and take that turn. And each pair of people have a rhythm to their conversation.
And if you have somebody who's over talkative versus under talkative or vice versa, that rhythm can be lost in them finishing ideas and going back and forth. But I think having something to do with turn taking as well, makes a lot of sense. - I have a colleague at Stanford who says that "Interruption is a sign of interest.
" [Erich laughing] I'm not sure that everyone agrees, I think it's highly contextual. But there is this form of a verbal nod of saying hmm-mm, or things of that sort. And there are many of these.
And I'm often told by my audience that I interrupt my guests and things of that sort. Oftentimes I'll just get caught in the natural flow of the conversation. - Well, I think we've had pretty good turn taking here, I hope.
- So far so good. - I feel that way. - I'm glad you feel that way, because especially in the context of a discussion about language seems important.
