Thank you for joining us today. Can you tell us about your background before your near-death experience? Of course.
I was working in the Seattle area, specifically for King County. I was a supervisor in the probation department of the juvenile courts. I absolutely loved my job and enjoyed working with adolescents.
I used to say all the time that I would do it until the day I died. Little did I know how prophetic those words would become. That's quite interesting.
So, what led to your near-death experience? It all started on May 5th, 2006. I ended up with a kidney stone that got stuck on the right side.
I'd had kidney stones before, so I recognized the symptoms immediately. How did you initially handle the situation? At first, I thought I could wait it out or push through the pain, expecting it to subside like it had in previous episodes.
But this time was different. The pain didn't go away. So what did you do next?
I remember going to the emergency room. I was pretty casual about it, actually. I just walked in and said, "I've got a kidney stone; it's over here.
" I knew the drill from my previous experiences—they'd take me to a room, give me morphine, and the pain would subside. Did everything go as expected at the hospital? Not exactly.
They discovered I also had a kidney infection, so they gave me antibiotics for that. The doctors decided to keep me overnight and schedule an operation for the next day. How did the operation go?
The operation itself went smoothly. They broke up the stones as planned. However, what we didn't know at the time was that I was one of those people for whom the antibiotics they gave me didn't effectively combat the infection I had.
That sounds concerning. What happened as a result? When they broke up the stones, the infection—the poison, essentially—went into my bloodstream.
I became septic, and everything in my body started shutting down. Not just my heart and lungs, but everything. That must have been terrifying.
What do you remember about that moment? You know, what really struck me was how little fear I felt when I realized I was dying. I'm a born-again Christian, and I believed that you go to heaven when you die.
So when I realized what was happening, all I could think was, "I'm going home. " Can you describe what happened next? According to the medical records, I was considered clinically dead for about an hour and 45 minutes.
But my experience of that time was very different. I remember leaving my body and shooting through the hospital floors, even going into the blue sky and outer space. It was incredibly fast.
How fast would you say it was? It's hard to describe, but I always think of a Bible verse that says, "To be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord. " That's exactly what it felt like.
I moved faster than a person could blink their eye. By the time the top eyelid hits the bottom one, I was already in heaven. That's fascinating.
What did you see as you were traveling? As I was going into that realm, I remember seeing what some people describe as a light at the end of a tunnel. But to me, it looked more like a window.
I'm not saying it was actually a window, but that's the best way I can describe it. What happened when you reached this "window"? When I came through that window, oh man, everything was right.
There was nothing wrong; it was pure peace. There was nothing that would agitate you, nothing that would get on your nerves. How did you feel in that moment?
The thing that struck me more than anything else was that I fit. I didn't realize how out of place I had felt before until I went through this experience. When I arrived in heaven, I knew I was welcome there.
Everything in heaven was welcoming me. When you say everything, what do you mean? I mean everything—not just God Almighty or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.
I'm saying everything in heaven literally was glad I was there, and I felt it by looking at everything around me. There were trees there; I felt welcome from the trees. I looked at flowers; they seemed to welcome me.
Everything there was so glad I had shown up. That sounds incredibly profound. What was your primary desire at that point?
You know, I didn't even realize I had this desire until I got there, but more than anything else, I wanted to see Jesus Christ. I wanted to see him face to face. That was so important to me.
I came to understand that heaven isn't just a place you want to be in; it's a person you want to be with. Can you describe your journey to find Jesus? As I was going through a forest—there was a bunch of trees in front of me—I knew Jesus Christ was through those trees.
I remember thinking that I had to go through those trees to see where he was. As I was moving forward, the trees parted before me. That's incredible.
How did that feel? It felt like the trees on both sides of me were saying, "He's going to see the king, he's going to see the king, he's going to see the king. " That's what I felt they were communicating.
And then what happened? I came out into this clearing, a wide-open space, and I saw Jesus. He was more to the left of me, and he was looking at a group of angels and what I call redeemed people—those who had been on Earth and had gone to heaven.
What was your reaction when you saw Jesus? I can remember coming up to him and seeing him, and the first thing I did—I didn't stand up and approach him. I got so close to him, and then I went down on my hands and knees, and I was looking at his feet.
Can you describe what you saw? He was still facing the multitude of the crowd before him. and there were millions of them, billions really.
I was looking at the side of his feet, and all I could do was kind of raise my head up enough to see part of his legs, never really his face at that moment. What were you thinking or feeling at that moment? All I could say was, "You did this for me.
" Everything inside of me, everything about me at that moment knew that the only reason I was in Heaven was because of what Jesus Christ had done. I was so grateful that he had done that for me. How did you express that gratitude?
The next thing I could do was just say, "Thank you, thank you, thank you," over and over again. I was overwhelmed with gratitude. What realization did you have at that moment?
I stopped and thought, "The only reason I'm here is because of what he had done. " Mentally, I knew he had done it for everyone, but personally, I took it so personally that he not only died on the cross so that I could be there, but he created all of Heaven just for me. I don't want to say I was being selfish because I wasn't, but that's what I felt like—he had done it just for me.
That's a powerful feeling. What did you do next? Then I started looking up his body.
I looked up from his feet to his ankles; his ankles loved me. I saw his calves; they loved me. I saw his knees; they loved me.
Everything about him I looked at loved me. His hands, they loved me. And when you got to his face?
When I got to his face, and he looked at me, this is one of the things that still gets me to this day: he looked at me like I had never, ever disobeyed him in my entire existence. That really got me. That must have been overwhelming.
How did you interpret that look? It made me think about how when he says he forgives you, he forgets it. I've read in the Bible, in the 8th chapter of Hebrews and also the 10th chapter, that when God forgives you, he forgets it.
I experienced that look from Jesus. I knew that I was an eternal being, that I would never die. My body died, but me, the real person on the inside of this body, will never die.
That's a profound realization. What happened after this encounter? After that engagement with him and him downloading some things inside of me (I call it downloading like a computer), he looks at me, and he says, "No, it's not your time.
Go back. " But it was just like that; that's how he says it. How did you feel about being told to go back?
I was kind of okay with it. I remember I didn't go through the forest after that to go back to where I came into Heaven. I went over the forest; it's like I flew over it.
Can you describe that experience of "flying"? There isn't really flying as we think of it. You can literally say, "I want to be 10 feet above the surface there," and you're there.
The best way I could describe it to you, if you read your Bible, is like when Jesus walked on water. There's no fear, so you can go as high as you want. That sounds amazing.
What happened when you reached the place where you came in? When I got to the place that I was going to leave out of—and it wasn't like there's a door there that opened up and you go out—it was just like I knew the next step I took, I would be out of that realm. I remember standing there for a while, and I sensed my body wasn't ready.
It wasn't ready. I was so joyful that it wasn't ready. So what did you do then?
I remember turning around saying, "Yes! " and the forest was before me, and I knew Jesus was on the other side of the forest. But I felt like I could literally go to the left of the forest, and as I was going to the left of the forest, oh man, all of creation was so joyful.
Can you describe what you saw? I saw mountains, and they were beautiful mountains. They looked like ocean waves moving.
They could move, and as they were moving, it looked like ocean waves going past me, but they were really mountains going. I just, oh man, this is so wonderful, and I'm enjoying it because, to be honest with you, I thought I was going to stay. That sounds incredible.
What did you do next? I knew I had to get back to Jesus, so I came back to Jesus. This time around the other side of him, and for whatever reason, I went behind him and then came back to that same position I did the first time.
I bowed down again before him, and then he said some more things to me and talked to me a little bit more about things there. Can you describe what you saw or felt during this encounter? I remember the light that was coming off of him; I didn't mention this the first time, but there was this great light that was coming off of him, and it was wrapping itself around me.
That sounds beautiful. What happened after this second encounter? After that engagement, he looked at me again.
He looked down at me again with these beautiful loving eyes. He said to me again, "No, it's not your time. Go back.
" How did you respond this time? The second time, oh man, I go over the trees again. I get to that edge part of where I came in at, and it looked like I take one more step, and I'm out.
I get ready to get out, and all of a sudden again, I know my body is not ready, and I'm thinking, "Yes! I am staying! " So you got another chance to explore?
Yes, this time instead of going to the left of me, I go to the right of that forest, and I experienced. so many great things. It seemed like that side was more of the liquids, like the water, the seas, the rivers.
I don't know why they were over on that side, but they were. Can you describe what you saw on that side? They were more blue, but that blue, like we would say, was blue because the colors there are more vibrant than you can imagine.
I travel through; I see saints, I experience some things. I've seen a lot of different animals on that side. There's a lot of animals in heaven.
That's fascinating. What happened after this exploration? And then I get right back to Jesus, and this was—oh man, they were always there.
I don't know why I didn't recognize them. Here again, I go back to the same spot I went to before with Jesus, and I'm looking at his feet. Then I look up, and on the other side of him, I see my family.
Can you tell us more about seeing your family? I see my grandmother Mary standing out front. She's in a group over on this side over here, and she's standing out front.
Then, behind her were other relatives, and then behind them were relatives, and it was generation after generation of all those that had a connection with Jesus Christ and the Father, and they came to greet me in. That must have been emotional. Had you seen them before during your experience?
Now I know they were there the first time I was there with Jesus. I know they were there the second time I was with Jesus. I didn't focus on them at all; I focused mostly on Jesus.
But this time, for some reason, I focused on Jesus, then I focused in on them. How would you describe their appearance? It's hard to describe people in heaven because there's no time.
I tell people they were shiny; they had a big smile and pure joy. And then I thought later on, I said to myself, "Wow, I got to see my entire family in heaven smiling," and I thought, "I've never seen that on the planet," and enjoying each other so much. That sounds beautiful.
Did this experience change your understanding of family in heaven? I didn't know that family was like that in heaven. I thought we were all the family of God, and we all would see each other, and that would be the way it is.
But you guys, the reality of it is that family is important to God, and I came to understand that. Were there any surprises in terms of who you saw there? There were people there that I didn't think would be there.
I thought they didn't go to heaven because they didn't meet the criteria I had for them. They met God's criteria, but they didn't meet my criteria. What is God's criteria, according to your understanding?
God's criteria is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. That's the criteria that God is asking. So, after this experience with your family, what happened next?
So here it is, you guys. My family comes to greet me in, Jesus downloads a lot of stuff in me, I get to experience what it's like to be in heaven and all of Heaven coming together and praising and worshiping God. But after everything, all of a sudden, Jesus looks at me again, and he says with a strong command, "No, it is not your time.
Go back. " How did you feel about this command? I felt like all of creation that was in front of me moved out of the way and said, "He's not talking about me; he's talking about you.
" I felt like a soldier. I used to be in the Air Force. I felt like I went, "Yes, sir!
" That type of thing. And then I got ready to leave. I felt like he was saying, "I need you there more than I need you here.
" That's what I felt like. He didn't say those words, but that's what I was feeling; that's what I was sensing. Did anyone else speak to you at this point?
Yes, my grandmother Mary was there, and she looks at me as he's saying this, and she says, "Bring as many of us back with you as you can. " And she's talking about my entire family here on the planet Earth. That's a powerful message.
What did you do then? So I bowed before Jesus like this, went over those trees again, got to what I call the edge of heaven, took a step, and I was out and headed back to this realm. How did you feel about returning?
And I was sad. I felt like a baby crying really hard. I remember coming into the hospital room, hovering over my bed where the body was.
They had really stopped working on me and started putting things away. The doctor even said he was signing the death certificate at that time. Did you have any sense of how our earthly relationships continue or change in heaven?
Yes, I did. When I saw my family members in heaven, I recognized them and felt a deep connection with them. But it was different from our earthly relationships.
There was a purity and perfection to our love for each other, free from any of the tensions or misunderstandings we might have had on Earth. Everyone seemed to be relating to each other through their relationship with God. You mentioned that you didn't want to come back at first.
Can you tell us more about your return to your body? After Jesus told me for the third time that it wasn't my time and I had to go back, I felt a sense of purpose. My grandmother Mary had told me to bring as many people back with me as I could, and I understood that I had a mission.
As I left heaven, I felt like I was traveling incredibly fast again, just like when I had entered. When I got back to the hospital room, I saw my body lying there. The medical staff had stopped working on me and were putting things away.
The doctor was even signing my death certificate. I hovered over my body for a moment, then turned over and. .
. Went back into it. What happened when you re-entered your body?
As soon as I re-entered my body, the heart monitor started beeping again. The medical staff were surprised and quickly came back to continue working on me. They intubated me and got me breathing again.
It was a stark contrast to the peace and joy I had just experienced in heaven. How did you feel physically after this experience? Physically, I was very weak.
My body had been through a lot. I had been clinically dead for about an hour and 45 minutes, so my recovery took time. But spiritually and emotionally, I felt renewed and filled with purpose.
How has this experience changed your life moving forward? It's changed everything. I have a new perspective on life, death, and eternity.
I live each day with the awareness that our time on Earth is short compared to eternity, and that every moment matters. I'm more focused on loving others and sharing the message of God's love with as many people as I can. I'm not afraid of death anymore, but I'm also more appreciative of the gift of life and the purpose God has for me here.
You mentioned living with a greater sense of purpose now. Can you elaborate on that? Certainly.
After experiencing heaven and receiving that message from my grandmother to "bring as many of us back with you as you can," I feel a deep responsibility to share my story and help others understand the reality of heaven and God's love. I try to live each day with the awareness that our actions here have eternal consequences. Has your near-death experience affected your relationships with others?
Tremendously. I now see each person as someone deeply loved by God, just as I experienced His love for me. It's made me more patient, more compassionate, and more eager to share the love I experienced in heaven with others.
I also value my family relationships more than ever, knowing how important they are not just here, but in eternity. You mentioned seeing animals in heaven. Can you tell us more about that?
Yes, I was surprised by how many animals I saw in heaven. They were everywhere, and they seemed to have a special place there. I saw animals that we have on Earth, but also creatures I'd never seen before.
They all seemed to be in perfect harmony with each other and with everything around them. It really emphasized to me that God cares for all of His creation, not just humans. That's fascinating.
Did you interact with any of these animals? Not directly, no. I was so focused on Jesus and then on my family that I didn't really interact with the animals.
But I could sense their joy and peace, just like everything else in heaven. They seemed to be praising God in their own way. You've talked about the beauty of heaven.
Can you describe it in more detail? It's challenging because earthly words don't really do it justice. The colors were more vibrant than anything we have here.
The light was everywhere, but it wasn't harsh—it was warm and inviting. Everything seemed to be alive in a way that's hard to explain. The trees, the flowers, even what looked like inanimate objects all seemed to have a life of their own.
And everything was in perfect harmony. There was no decay, no imperfection. It was beauty beyond anything I could have imagined.
You mentioned that Jesus "downloaded" information into you. Can you explain what you mean by that? It's hard to describe, but it felt like suddenly I just knew things.
It wasn't like He was speaking to me in words, but rather imparting knowledge directly into my mind or spirit. I understood things about God, about heaven, about life that I had never grasped before. Some of this knowledge faded when I returned to my body, but some of it stayed with me.
Can you share any specific insights you gained from this "download"? One of the biggest things was a deeper understanding of God's love. I thought I knew what it meant for God to love us, but what I experienced was so much more profound.
I also gained insights into the nature of eternity, the importance of our choices on Earth, and the reality of spiritual warfare. But some things I can't even put into words—they're concepts that our earthly minds struggle to comprehend. You mentioned spiritual warfare.
Can you elaborate on that? Yes, I became more aware of the reality of spiritual forces—both good and evil—that are at work in our world. I realized that many of our struggles and challenges have a spiritual component that we often overlook.
This has made me more intentional about prayer and about putting on what the Bible calls the "full armor of God. " Has your experience changed how you view death? Absolutely.
I no longer fear death at all. I know it's not the end, but rather a transition to something far more beautiful than we can imagine. That doesn't mean I'm in a hurry to die—I believe God has a purpose for me here, and I want to fulfill that.
But I look forward to returning to heaven when my time truly comes. Has your perspective on time changed? Definitely.
In heaven, time didn't exist in the way we experience it here. Everything was eternal present. It's made me realize how temporary our struggles and challenges here on Earth really are in the grand scheme of things.
It's also made me more aware of how I use my time here, knowing that every moment is precious and has eternal significance. You mentioned that you saw people in heaven that you didn't expect to see. How has this affected your view of salvation?
It's made me much less judgmental. I realized that God's grace and mercy are far greater than we often give Him credit for. It's not about following a set of rules or being perfect—it's about accepting Jesus and His sacrifice.
I'm much more careful now about assuming I know someone's spiritual state. Only God truly knows a person's heart. I apologize for the interruption.
You're right, I'm not finished. Let me continue the dialogue: You mentioned living with a greater sense of purpose now. heaven were like that but beyond anything you can conceive.
They were richer, more saturated, and luminous in a way that made them seem alive. Even the way light interacted with colors felt different; it was as if everything was glowing from within. The combination of colors created an atmosphere of joy and peace that I can't adequately express.
They transcended our earthly understanding of color, evoking a sense of wonder and delight every time I looked around. Heaven makes that look pale in comparison. And there were colors I've never seen before, colors that don't exist on our earthly spectrum.
Everything seemed to glow from within with these incredible colors. Did you have any sense of the size or scope of heaven? Heaven seemed both intimate and infinite at the same time.
When I was with Jesus or my family, it felt close and personal. But I also had a sense of vast, endless beauty stretching out in all directions. It was as if heaven was as large as it needed to be to accommodate everyone and everything in perfect harmony.
You talked about the trees parting for you. Did you see other examples of nature behaving differently than it does on Earth? Yes, everything in heaven seemed alive and responsive in a way that's hard to describe.
The mountains moved like waves; the light seemed to have a life of its own, wrapping around me. Even what we might consider inanimate objects here seemed to have a form of consciousness there, all of it oriented towards praising God. Did you have any sense of other people's experiences in heaven?
While I was focused on my own experience, I did have a sense that everyone there was experiencing the same level of joy, peace, and love that I was. It was as if everyone was having their own perfect experience, yet all were united in worship and love for God. You mentioned that you didn't want to come back.
How did you reconcile yourself to returning to Earth? It was difficult at first. Heaven is so beautiful, so perfect, that part of me didn't want to leave.
But I felt that God had a purpose for sending me back, and that gave me peace about returning. I now see my life here as a mission—to share what I've experienced and to help others prepare for eternity. Interviewer: How has your experience affected your view of worship?
Worship has taken on a whole new meaning for me. In heaven, worship wasn't just something you do; it was a constant state of being. Everything and everyone was continually praising God, not out of obligation, but out of pure joy and love.
It's made me approach worship here on Earth with a new enthusiasm and depth. Did you have any awareness of events on Earth while you were in heaven? No, I didn't.
I was so caught up in the experience of heaven that I had no awareness of what was happening with my body or on Earth. It was only when Jesus told me it wasn't my time that I became aware that I would be returning. Has your experience changed how you view your work or daily activities?
Absolutely. I now see everything I do as an opportunity to bring a bit of heaven to Earth. Whether it's my work, my interactions with others, or even mundane tasks, I try to approach them with the love and joy I experienced in heaven.
It's also made me more intentional about using my time and resources in ways that have eternal significance. Did you have any sense of how prayers from Earth are received in heaven? While I didn't see specific prayers being received, I had a sense that there's constant communication between heaven and Earth.
I understood that God is intimately aware of and involved in the lives of people on Earth and that prayer is a real and powerful connection between us and heaven. Did you gain any insights into the role of angels? Yes, I saw angels in heaven and had a sense of their purpose.
They seemed to be constantly engaged in worship and in carrying out God's will. I understood that they play a more significant role in our lives than we often realize, but always in submission to God's authority. How has your experience impacted your relationships with non-believers?
It's given me a greater urgency to share my faith, but also a deeper patience and love for those who don't believe. I understand better now that each person's journey is unique and that God's love extends to everyone, regardless of where they are in their faith journey. I try to share my experience in a way that invites rather than pushes, always respecting others' free will.
Did you gain any insights into the nature of free will and God's sovereignty? This is a deep theological question, but I did gain some understanding. I sensed that God's sovereignty and human free will work together in a way that's hard for us to fully grasp with our earthly minds.
I understood that God's love is so great that He allows us to make real choices, even when those choices might hurt us or others, but that He's always working to bring good out of every situation. Did you gain any insights into the nature of evil or the presence of suffering in the world? While I didn't encounter any evil in heaven, I gained a deeper understanding of its nature by contrast.
The perfect goodness and love I experienced made the reality of evil and suffering on Earth even more stark. I understood that evil is essentially the absence of God's goodness, a distortion of His perfect creation. It reinforced for me the importance of bringing God's light into the darkness of this world.
How has your near-death experience affected your fear of death or dying? It's completely removed any fear of death. I now see death not as an end, but as a transition to something far more beautiful than we can imagine.
That doesn't mean I'm in a hurry to die—I believe God has a purpose for me here, and I want to fulfill that. But when my time does come, I'll welcome it with joy, knowing what awaits. What message would you like people to take away from your experience?
I want people to know that God's love for them is far greater than they can imagine. Heaven is real, and it's more beautiful and perfect than we can comprehend. Our choices and actions on Earth have eternal significance.
And most importantly, I want people to understand that a relationship with Jesus is what prepares us for eternity. It's not about being perfect or following a set of rules, but about accepting His love and forgiveness. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your incredible story with us. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we conclude? I just want to emphasize that, while my experience was profound and life-changing, the most important thing is not my story, but God's story of love for humanity.
My hope is that, by sharing what happened to me, people will be encouraged to seek God for themselves and to live with an eternal perspective. Thank you for allowing me to share my experience. Your story is truly remarkable and gives us all a lot to think about regarding life, death, and what comes after.
Thank you once again.
