Interviewing Cliffe & Stuart Knechtle

When we went to Connecticut I got to talk to Clifford sewer and I was so encouraged by them because they got to talk to me about certain books they've read to gain knowledge on Christianity and when I got back home to La I started to think and wonder if there was a resource out there that had a library of books on Christianity that you could have access to at any time to learn about the [Music] Bible what the heck the key to biblical knowledge I was just talking about this I wonder what's inside the Box

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logos 10 packages love you guys enjoy The video all right welcome back to another video guys we're super excited this is my favorite video we filmed all year so I'm super excited to have some new friends of ours we have cliff and Stuart connly boom impressive that actually shocked me yesterday in church when they said connly on a thing I always thought it was nect cuz when you put two TR lits next to each other right it's like silent a little silent yeah we get that oh yeah super excited um we got To come up

here and to Connecticut and visit them it's going to be awesome but before we ask some questions we got to try some they've never had crumble you guys haven't had crumble cookie before we've not no and this is the first eating on set so I don't hate it you guys ready wow my goodness so they they changed the flavors every week so it honestly depends on what you guys like this is cookies and cream cheesecake oh That's cheesecake um some strawberry milk chocolate this is like a brownie cookie it's chilled so it's like cold it's

not soft yeah Cinnamon Toast Crunch oh good honestly whichever you guys like oh this is cheesecake that one's cheesecake right there what's this one um I'm not sure what that one is you like that one I thought you would like that one cuz that kind of looks cheesecake but if that one so Thought which one are you guys feeling right now it's tough which one are you feeling the cheesecake one I'll take anyone all right try let's go cliff with the cheesecake okay that's going to be this one right here yeah I'll set it up

here for you goodness gra thank you so much you're welcome man man and then I'll do uh what's this one called it's regular chocolate chip okay I'll go that guy this one right here Cinnamon Toast Crunch thank you buddy I think I'm going to do this brown cookie looking one it looks good I'm normally not like a sweet person yeah yeah but Maddie was the one that got me into it she that's the only one negative I've heard about Maddie so far that's bad for you everything else is positive you guys want some milk with

the as well thank you is this 2% or what do we have here I think it's whole milk whole milk I like my 2% as well but Cheers cheers to you a amen thank you brace than you you're welcome all right when you try you got to rate it out of 10 so you can even give like a 9.3 9.5 you just got to read it [Music] out it's like taking communion together right here oh wow good uhhm 10 a 10 mhm [Music] M I don't want to butter it up but that's a 10 that's

a 10 that's a 10 yeah 10 man wow amazing mine is so good so good dessert before [Laughter] lunch not trying to be a bad influence isn't it good amazing they'll Circle back around in the same flavors occasionally but they didn't have like a random one like cornbread like I was telling you guys the other night or Kitchen sink oh yeah yeah those nasty ones it was weet yeah this is amazing that was awesome takes me back to Childhood what are these called again crumble cookie and then cinnamon toast Cinnamon Toast so good this was

in Stamford Stamford not Stanford Stam with an M you got it that was awesome that was good you guys like oh thank you so much Del spoiling us ma'am hey man I like it thanks for thanks for hanging out With us for sure few days in Connecticut have been awesome your guys' church is extremely welcoming and we just had a great time um let me see if I can I'm I'm going to set the milk down and go with my water how about that struggle there see yeah I I mean I have I have just

random questions like set down on my phone probably stuff that you guys have answered before but and then we'll just let the conversation go cuz I'm Just I really want to encourage people and then I also have some stuff that I just want to ask you guys cuz I'm a little curious but I feel like one of the main questions that I get from young people when they message me is asking me why Christianity and for me at least I had a supernatural experience that's how I surrendered my life to Jesus I had a supernatural

Encounter With Jesus and so for me I had heard all the logical evidence all my life I went to a private Christian school but the thing that really pushed me to surrender my life to Jesus was that Supernatural experience so whether it is that which what would you guys say is the reason of why someone should choose [Music] Christianity lot of nodding why why not so for me I I often times it go straight to the intellectual so what is the intellectual I'll go there first but for me now it's actually more the Experiential and

emotional side the intellectual that I find most convincing is just about all Scholars throughout our nation believe that Jesus was a historical figure that he actually existed the vast majority believe that he claimed to be God so that claim right there if he truly claimed it well someone who claims to be God I find in Psych units cuz they're schizophrenic right right so do you truly believe that A schizophrenic converted 35% of the world that he was truly God that's a hard time may maybe but but the evidence is no there there's got to be

something probably behind that you know you two Bono said that he he was one of the guys who first pushed that so those those are the first two historical figure claim then his sayings it's wisdom sayings my goodness The Sermon on the Mount Robert Kohl's at Harvard said that all other ethical teachings are simply Footnotes to The Sermon on the Mount so it shows the power of how he lived who he was and what he said change the nation change the nation change the world forever then next would be the reliability of the Gospels we

have more manuscript evidence that's closest to the time of when it actually happened than any other others are not even close Herodotus Alexander the Great um the Quran Buddhist teachings the events between Buddhist life and the initial teachings you know betas the pads 300 years between those the gospels 1 Corinthians 15 3-8 the Creeds of who Jesus Christ is that Paul talked about go back within a couple years of his life oh wow and then later on a lot of Scholars now are saying the latest gospel someone put John all the way up to 90

ad so pretty far from the events themselves but now they're pushing it All the way up to 70 oh wow so all of the gospels were written within the lifetime of these eyewitnesses or people who knew eyewitnesses and so we knew it was an oral culture so everybody so many people were not literate right the highest percentage of people because it was all slaves and it was all children women and people who just weren't illiterate during that time period weren't literate so understanding the timing of why Jesus Came when he did makes a lot of

sense because literacy started to increase and all the trade routes started to explode so often times we get the question why why did he come then and not now well historically actually historians would say made a lot of sense why he came when he came next is reliability of the gospels and then lastly is the resurrection for me so I'm just talking Christian I'm not talking Evidence for God absolutely evidence for the resurrection is exploding man I mean there's new evidence that comes out every few months it seems Gary hobber Moss William Lane Craig uh

Peter J Williams I mean it's an endless list and he WR who are just finding out more and more evidence for why in the world were the women the first ones to the Tom why would they include that if women's testimony couldn't stand up in court the court of Law well it's because it's embarrassing testimony that they stuck to and said hey this really happened we got to record history accurately right and so so many of the details of where Jesus was buried who buried him in what tomb how many eyewitnesses there were why are

there so many different there's over four right there's six different eyewitnesses pieces of Literature so so these eyewitnesses wrote them down that made these claims that the resurrection occurred well two would have been Pay Dirt for any historian two pieces of evidence we have six but because there's Supernatural pieces within it they say ah you got to throw it out so there's hypers skepticism of the supernatural that largely came from this philosopher David Hume who sadly shook our nation pretty pretty badly when it came to Discrediting anything super Supernatural so that's where I go intellectually

then emotionally I'm with you whether it's prayer whether it's talking with people whose lives have been completely changed I do a lot of cing as a mental health therapist a marriage and family pastoring talking with all kinds of students and professors on college campuses like you listen to their stories and you encounter it and you feel and you accept how the holy spirit Is moving you just know something's going on right you can't just explain it as oh yeah this is some great Tony Robbins you know self-help stuff it's you can't explain it until you

really experience it after you've really gained the evidence and you don't don't need evidence to be a Christian you can be a Christian even if you know if you were just raised in a Christian home and you just accept it yes but I would and I know Cliff would strongly encourage People to look at the evidence so changed lives my life has been changed and just seeing how how the nation but beyond the nation how the world is being swept up in the gospel now is another piece of evidence for me that God's moving God's

moving yeah wow powerful Cliff do you have anything uh I'm a follower of Christ cuz my Mom and Dad love me and then they told me that at the heart of the universe there's a God who loves me and Because they were so consistent in loving me it began to make sense that really what life is all about is relationships and love is key to relationships then when I hit high school and college I began to realize that indeed one of the most powerful evid pieces of evidence that God exists is love because if there

is no God you're limiting reality to matter energy which Means what you and I call love is not a value where I freely choose to work for your good for your well-being instead love is a chemical reaction it's a sex drive it's a drive that Mom and Dad have to preserve the genetic pool and take care of their little babies so that the human race continues that's all it is and yet my experience and my observation of Life Is No Love meaning by that a free decision to work for the well-being of Another person is

real in fact it's so real it's really what makes life go round and round therefore because I've observed love in others in their relationships and because I've experienced love in my own life I am convinced that there's got to be some type of God because there is got to be some type of personal being who creates us with a free will and with his innate ability to love to really care for each other then the next Question is okay well who is this God what is this God like and I'm hit a brick wall I

can't I'm not smart enough to figure out who God is and that's where all the different religions come in but it's specifically where Jesus comes in because Jesus communicates God is love Jesus communicates for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life and all of a sudden as I begin to Observe life and experience life I begin to understand yes love is crucial it's foundational and yes the evidence is Jesus Christ was really in touch with reality when he

revealed that God is love and that he loves us wow so when okay so you going back kind of like piggybacking off of like both you guys a little bit you mentioned the Gospel of John and how it was getting pushed back a little bit that's like always the number one gospel I feel like Encouraging people to read cuz John 1 emphasizes that Jesus isn't just someone forcing people to believe something he actually lived it the word became flesh and things like that but what differentiates I guess like what Luke is a doctor John's a

fisherman so is it that reading one is better than the other sometimes I get confused cuz then I I'll encourage people like hey read read the Gospel of John but then some people are like oh well if Luke was a Doctor he's like kind of smarter right so John doesn't you know he's just a fisherman he's kind of got slang he kind of doesn't really know what he's talking about do you kind of get what I'm asking like if the gospels were written by different kind of people that have different backgrounds or upbringings Matthew's a

tax collector so he's just very very he emphasizes order and structure Luke a Doctor John fisherman like does it make Them not contradict each other but like one a little bit more better than the other does that make sense or do they kind of like bounce off of each other you know what I'm do you kind of know what I'm asking MH I think it makes a lot of sense if they were all doctors and they all had very similar stories I would start to wonder One is their collusion two there isn't a diversity of

background so it's not going to connect with as many people so you have Matthew Who's Jewish speaking to a largely Jewish audience well that connects that makes a lot of sense and then you have their biography is also connected to Paul and to Peter and one of the things I find interesting is Peter could have easily gone back to the gospels and said hey don't paint me in the light of denying Christ to a little school girl because I want I wanted to save my skin and I want to look like I'm the Rock and

I'm going to be the head and the whole Catholic Church is going to look up to me throughout all the centuries he could have easily done that but he left it in there because he understood the mess up I made and so that's an embarrassing detail which a lot of Scholars would say is a huge piece of evidence for why the gospels are reliable and so again I I think it shows no collusion and it fits with different cultures nicely do I gravitate towards Luke because he's drawn up this orderly account that word Orderly account

for theophilos who's a brilliant mind during that day and age yes I'm drawn more so to Luke perhaps and at the same time they're all making similar claims and the majority of them are eyewitnesses so I would would say there's necessarily more veracity to one than the others gotcha gotcha Bryce I've just had the privilege to meet you yesterday and if I really want to get to know Bryce I listen to you I asked you questions I build a relationship with You but I'm really glad that you brought three others right your girlfriend Maddie Josh

and Eli and as I listen to them talk about Bryce from their unique perspectives from from their unique histories with you that fills in the picture of Bryce for me I am very grateful that we don't have one author who wrote the New Testament and very grateful we don't have one gospel we've got four different gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John four unique perspectives on Jesus now are there similarities between the four gospels yes particularly Matthew Mark and Luke called the synoptic gospels tremendous similarities and I think it's rather evident that they use some notes

but they even the synoptics Matthew Mark and Luke are unique they have included certain details and excluded other details and that is refreshing because it helps me realize these guys are Really struggling through communicating the facts about Christ in a fair way but they're doing it from their unique perspective which I think is very important I mean if you try and tell me about a person and just keep on trying to force that person into your web into your network into your view of reality I don't think I'm going to get as good a picture

as if you give me your perspective and then others give me their perspective about this unique Individual that makes so much sense I guess like a lot of people even my mind would I guess struggle sometimes to wonder if they would not contradict each other but like if one would make it a little bit more fuzzy than the other that makes sense like I've learned a lot from you through sewer and through your wife and and from even steuart's wife and so so that does make a lot of sense but if I guess like kind

of comparing that to even other Denominations I would be someone who considered myself just non-denominational I go to a non-denominational church we believe in the Bible we believe in the Trinity the basic foundations of Jesus but I feel like with the different denominations I feel like a lot of people make that as an excuse to kind of but heads with other denominations um I find some Presbyterian friends I have not Respecting me because I'm not Presbyterian or Methodist friends not respecting my Baptist friends or vice versa or things like that is there is there like

a quote quote unquote right denomination or is it is there just are we just following after what the Bible teaches and how do we know I don't even know if this isn't a like a correct thing to ask like how do we know what denomination not to be if that sense like is there what determines that you Know I I get I get confused sometimes I feel like I see so many and I grew up in a small country town but you know we have we have a Presbyterian church next to a Methodist church and

then down the street got two Baptist Churches across the street and then down and I'm like which one are they all okay to go to you know cuz one believes in infant baptism one doesn't one proclaims one thing you know and I don't know like what what's true what it just confuses me sometimes M here you want to start I'm going to pull up 1 Corinthians 15 38 a ship came to a deserted island the sailors got off the ship and they met a man on the deserted island and then they noticed that the man

had three huts and the sailors asked sir why three huts and the uh one single man on that island said well the first Hut is my home the second Hut is my first church and the third Hut is my second church we Had a division that's pathetic and yet it's too true often about Christians in John chapter 16 Jesus prays father I pray that Believers would be one so that the world might know that you'd sent me and yet there's so many divisions now some divisions are good what what's a good Division if a church

begins to teach that Jesus is not God if a church begins to teach that Jesus did not live a sinless life if a church begins to teach That Jesus did not die on the cross for our sins but he just died because he was failed Zealot if a church teaches that well Jesus did not physically rise but he spiritually rose from the dead then I think genuine Believers are going to try and bring them back to the scriptures but if it doesn't happen then they're going to have to leave and that would be called a

split very sad but very necessary because the Church of Jesus Christ is based on a Biblical Presentation of who Jesus is we call it the Orthodox Christian faith now you will find orthodox genuine Believers in every denomination so I'm convinced the issue is not what denomination are you part of rather the issue is are you following Christ and have you found a church that teaches you what it looks like practically to follow Jesus Christ to make him your savior and your lord and there are genuine Believers of Christ in Every denomination and there are hypocritical

insincere false Christians in every denomination so convinced the issue is not which is the true denomination instead the issue is have you found a church a group of believers who seriously follow Christ or are we just into a cultural tradition called Christianity Jesus did not call us to a cultural tradition he call us to himself to trust in him and to grow in him as long as the Denomination like my dad just said is tied to the central understanding of who Christ is what he claimed and how he's offering a relationship ship with you if

it's tied to that as the central tenant then it's good you're you're good good to go we have way too many liberal theological churches around us that are just watering down the gospel saying oh Jesus isn't the only way you know you can add a little buddha in there add a little confucious teachings it's fine so He's not the way of the truth and the life exclusively all right as soon as you get there I'm sorry you are completely like we talked about yesterday cleverly invented stories Peter Paul talks about endless amounts of philosophy ERS

who are trying to tickle the ears in order to make things a lot easier for you or more palatable steer clear there's a reason why Peter and Paul talked about it so much not just once or twice so many times in Ephesians Colossians Philippians first Peter and elsewhere so here's the central I would look at 1 Corinthians 15 3-8 I would look at Philippians 2 these earliest Creeds where Paul and others are explaining what exactly the gospel is is the main point and what who are we to follow and why so here it is for

what I received I passed on to you as of first importance so there it is right there that's your denomination what does it worship as its first importance that Was passed on that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures that he was buried that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures so according to the scriptures and that he appeared to sephus and then the 12 after that he appeared to more than 500 of the brothers and sisters at the same time most of whom are still living though some have

fallen asleep so that's why they're writing because some of the eyewitnesses are falling asleep then he Appeared to James then all the apostles and last of all he appeared to me also as to one who is abnormally born so there's a awesome place in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus sends out a few disciples and he says all right you have the gift of healing and you have the gift of casting out demons and so they go out oddly enough they run into somebody who is doing that and they're scratching their heads and saying what

he's not part of us he wasn't just sent Out he's not part of the 12 and they're ticked off and there the self-righteousness The Pride the tribalism clearly shown and they run back to Jesus say whoa whoa whoa hold on Christ there's somebody right now who's casting out demons and healing in your name but he's not one of us I believe that's the first example we get in the gospels of denominational differences and that's an unhealthy understanding of denominational differences where the Disciples are saying we're better because we have this title we are in the

Inner Circle and so you got the Frozen chosen who are the Frozen chosen well you drive up to Massachusetts here from Connecticut and you can throw a rock you know a few hundred yards off of many of the exits and you'll hit either empty churches but the Frozen chosen are the churches that have been around a long time few hundred years and it's all old people in there Old men and old church ladies and they don't spread the gospel at all instead they say we're the chosen ones we're here we don't need to we don't

need to go go out and get people this is our tribe This Is Us very unhealthy understanding of denom ations but like my dad said the healthy understanding is you have different denominations fitting different cultures so more charismatic ones fitting Latin America so many Latin Americans express Faith through tongues Through prophecy Gifts of healing in that sort of way so that denomination fits beautifully within their culture While others more of the Presbyterian types that are a little more Dusty and yet I think it's great I I would consider myself more in this Camp which is

kind of the more intellectual side where we're thinking through more Doctrine and theology but you have to have both you have to have both to really live out that faith and so as Long as people are putting Christ as Central it's a healthy denomination not looking down upon other denominations you mentioned that charismatic side about how like other other maybe churches or especially in Latin America they exemplify their Charisma through tongues and prophecy I think something that I'm trying to wrap my head around is is prophecy nowadays when I read the Old Testament and a

prophet got something wrong they get stoned to death And so many people every time I open up my phone they tell me the day and time that Jesus is returning and they tell me when he's coming back what he's about to do that he's coming in doing whatever they had a dream of this and this and that and I don't know if if it's changed if it's different like what that looks like and then I also got like I know other people who claim that prophecy is just encouragement but in the Old Testament when I

look at it they're Foretelling things that are going to happen so is it that like what exactly is prophecy is it something today and and then I guess if someone's like prophesying Jesus's return to me he doesn't even know the day or the hour so does that make someone a false prophet or does that just mean that they just dreamt something that they were just thinking about in their Consciousness or you know what I mean where do we where do we draw the line with Prophecy I think I Define prophecy in two ways prophecy is

foretelling the future and it's also forthtelling it's communicating the truth of God and showing how it connects with people in different cultures so the Old Testament prophets foretold the future and they also spoke the word of God directly into a culture and people were convicted of their sin and turned to God in Repentance now you're right a false prophet was to be stoned in the Old Testament I think we have to be very careful how we apply that today for the past 2,000 years there have been many followers of Christ who have been what I

would call overly enthusiastic about the return of Christ when it comes to nailing it down to a date I'll never forget leaving a University campus in Massachusetts and right at the exit there was this big billboard Jesus is coming October 26th can you imagine what the cynics and Skeptics were doing on that campus November 1st laughing their heads off at the these crazy Christians who think that the world is coming to an end when Jesus comes and they know the date yeah that's embarrassing and Jesus clearly warns don't do it do not do it so

I plead with Christians don't try and set dates for Christ's return as you pointed out very well Bryce in Matthew 24 Jesus says no one knows the day or hour of my return not the angel in Heaven nor the Son but only the father as it was in the days of Noah so it will be at the coming of the son of man from the days before the flood people were eating and drinking marrying and giving in marriage up till the time Noah entered the Ark and the flood came and swept them all away that

is how it will be at the coming of the son of man two men will be in the field one will be taken the other left two women will be grinding with a handm mill one will be taken and the Other left therefore keep watch because you do not know the day or hour of my return I am very skeptical of these prophetic schemes that guarantee that Christ is going to return next week next year 10 years from now a thousand years from now no friend when you read the New Testament you will see the

first century followers of Christ live their life as if Jesus could return tonight tonight so get your stinking house in order cuz he could come tonight He's not not guaranteed he could come next week he could come 10 years from now a 100 years from now a thousand years from now the Bible does not answer the question oh some of my skeptical New Testament scholar acquaintances say yeah you see the New Testament authors really thought that Christ was going to come in their lifetime false they did not say that Christ was going to come in

their lifetime but they did yes live their lives as if Christ was going to come Really soon in their lifetime and that is the way all of us as followers of Christ are to live with that kind of expectancy so what's going to happen then in the end times I feel like I hear so many different views and perspectives I'm not even trying to get like I don't even know the theological names for the different views of the end times but like what exactly is going to happen like you just mentioned two women are going

to be grinding in a millstone one One disappears one's still there like what ex what exactly is going to go down I I I still get confused when I read Revelation the apocalyptic literature y I feel like I read things repeatedly over and over it's like when I read it and then I hear all these different theological views and I'm just like dang I just want like a I just want to know is going to happen I've always said that John when writing on the aisle of Patmos he was Schizophrenic when he wrote Revelation a

little symptomatic perhaps when I say that I'm completely kidding one time I had a few Christians reach out like wait a second John was schizophrenic are you serious steuart he said no obviously not but he was writing this in such a way where this apocalyptic literature is pretty scary and it's hard to understand like you said there's so much metaphor within it where do you draw the line with literalism so I try and always pull Back first and say okay what is some context here who is he writing to and what's the point and so

yes it's pointing to the end times in some ways and signs but that's connected like so many of the other gospels are to hope for a suffering group of Christians so Christians so often don't remember that and don't think about it that this is actually primarily not just for us to try and read the end times and get all scared and freaked out like when the World Trade Center went down is that judgment on the New York City we got to read all no we're supposed to read the Times sure but it's primarily you got

to think through okay this is a type of hope that's trying to be infused what John is doing to a group of Christians who are being burned at the stake they're being lit for Nero's Gardens and they're on the run in the catoms ETC so they're not sitting there thinking oh gosh the three-headed monster the White Horse how are we going to deal with these kinds of things so that's important to start there all right so what's going to come on down it's a great question brce his history is not going to end with a

nuclear bomb as we all blow ourselves to bits history is not going to end with a wiper of entropy as The Sun Burns Out and we all freeze to death no history is going to return When Jesus Christ returns in power and great Glory But what on Earth does it mean when the Bible says every eye is going to see him I do not know how are people in Papo New Guinea and people in North America going to see him at the same time I don't know how he's going to do it I don't think

the Bible answers that question but it does promise that history is come to come to a close when Jesus Christ returns then there's going to be a day of judgment Hebrews 9:27 it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the Judgment so there's going to be a resurrection of people we will stand before Christ and he will judge us only one reason I'm going to be in heaven it's because Christ died on the cross for my sin I put my faith in him and he's given me the gift of eternal life then

there's going to be after the day of judgment to heaven and hell now once again the Bible doesn't give us a photograph of hell or of heaven and I can promise you when my mom was passing Away she went through a difficult process of Parkinson's and congestive heart failure I had the privilege of seeing her regularly cuz she lived just a little bit away from here and I would go over scripture with her and her question was Cliff what's Heaven going to be like and I would tell her and she'd say come on Cliff tell

me more and I would say well Mom I can't because the scriptures don't reveal exactly what it's going to be like and I got a real Problem Bryce with people who make it up and then say this is what the Bible says no I've got to be intellectually honest and if the text is silent I got to say I don't know the text doesn't answer the question but we do know that we're going to have new bodies it's one of the main points of 1 Corinthians 15 Resurrection bodies we do know Revelation 214 that in

heaven there's going to be no more mourning or crying or evil or suffering or death but eternal life we do know That heaven is going to be an eternal love relationship with Christ with God and with each other we're going to be able to recognize each other we do know that heaven is not going to be sitting on a cloud storming a harp for eternity no we're going to be working serving it says God in the Book of Revelation we're going to be using the gifts that God has given us to work the last thing

Heaven is going to be is boring no we're going to be in the presence of the most joyful Being in the universe the Living God so Heaven is going to be an amazing trip oh the cliff I want to go to hell cuz I want to have a keger and be with my buddies wait a second your ability to enjoy a party is a gift of God and hell is going to be separation from God in other words separation from the being who has given you all the good gifts that you celebrate that you Delight

in so Heaven's not going to be a party Heaven's going to be the opposite of a Party because we're going to be separated from The Giver of all those good gifts that we enjoy which means we ain't going to be enjoying those good gifts wow so you're saying that so I know you said there's not a clear-cut picture from hell cuz I know a lot of people say it's going to be flames it's going to be burning and around it's going to be like hot furnace I remember hearing like this old uh metaphor for hell

everyone's like you want to know What hell is going to feel like turn your shower to the hottest water and go stand in it and I'm like what in the world is that but is it just like simply to describe it separation from God like when I imagine hell I imagine it as if all all of humankind whether they put their faith and trust in Jesus or not is going to get a taste of Jesus on the day of judgment even though it's judgment they're going to see they're going to stand him and even though

it's judgment They're going to look at him and say man he's so glorious but then because of hell they get the separation from the most glorious experience they've ever had in their Spirit you know because we're in that new body when we stand before him so considering heaven and hell I guess the passage that I even get afraid of sometimes I think it's in Matthew 11 or Matthew 7 one of the two I I think it's in Matthew 11 when they say did we not Prophesy in your name did we not cast out demons in

your name did we not heal the sick in your name and Jesus says depart from me I never knew you yep I don't think that passage is saying that those things are bad but I don't understand if they're saying did we not do these things in your name then does that mean what what's the differentiation between someone who does those let's say there's two people right both people do those things in Jesus Name but only one here's the heart me I never knew you then what would the what would be the reasoning for the other

one does that make sense and then you know if if we're not if we're looking at it from that perspective then what about the person that doesn't do any of those things is that okay like that they don't that they don't do it like are those things just considered add-ons you know what I mean like if they don't do it does that make them lesser than like you See what I'm ask oh yeah well shows the Divide but then the nice connection between Paul and James where James is saying clearly if you don't have Works

your faith is dead and so that's connected to Matthew 25 when Jesus is talking about sheep and the goats if you have not visited me while I'm sick or in the hospital or come to prison I'm in prison you haven't served in any kind of way then you're going to have to depart from me I never knew you and so you go To Matthew 11 though all of a sudden we've done all these things in your name what are you talking about Jesus well that gets into phariseeism so that gets into I just did these

things really to look like a great guy and I never cultivated any kind of relationship to you I never glorified you in it and that's why Jesus always went after the Pharisees saying look at the inside of the cup your father is the devil he said to them that's pretty intense language And so outside of the cup the Pharisees it was Perfect The Cup looked great it was sparkly shiny CU they were the ones tithing the most they were the ones really meeting out Justice historically the Pharisees are talked about that kind of way so

they were doing Ma Matthew 25 they were visiting the sick most likely and doing these kinds of things but then like you said Matthew 11 and other places with with Paul you know you're Justified that see that's why Martin Luther for example when he penned those 95 thesis and changed the world through protestantism versus Catholicism and all different other types of denominations that were all about connected to James it's just I got to work my way to God see Martin Luther such an incredible mind and made this gigantic shift of millions we're sitting here largely

because of Martin Luther I don't know if we realize that or not where he read Romans chapter 1 where it's not by my Works but by God and I do these works for God not for myself so that gets back lastly to the difference between the Christian faith and Islam I'm riding in Uber the other day with a Muslim guy and I said okay after a while of talking I said so you're going to Paradise right and he said oh I have no idea yeah I'm doing a lot of these good things I haven't done

many bad bad things in my life but I still don't know okay right there that's the biggest divide between Islam and Christianity a Christian can say I am secure in my relationship with Christ I have failings but I've gone after him and said he is doing these things it's simply a response to the grace he's offered me versus Islam and other worldviews which is I just got to pile up these things if my heart's lighter than a feather then God owes me now God doesn't owe me anything God created me he created this whole place

I owe God Everything and it's out of his grace that he's accepting me so is it that our works I understand that it's by faith in Jesus Christ that we're saved but Jesus also says that if you love me you'll obey my commandments so is it that our faith is is proved to be genuine because of the reflection of our actions not that our actions get them there for example like in Islam like I know the basis is like the five pillars Right you have tithing praying multiple times a day and I forget the other

three but in their eyes like you said it's like they do these things and at the end of the day they still don't know um but for me as a Christian I feel like I go out of my way to do things I don't even think about going out of my way to do them I guess I when I find myself reflecting Jesus I'm not forcing myself to do it I'm kind of like doing it cuz I love them does that make sense Like I listen to my parents not because I feel like I have

to but because I love them I value what they say I think that they've lived a lot more life than I have so like I consider what they say and I don't feel like I have to do that but James also says at the end of James 1 that true religion is visiting widows and orphans in their Affliction so I guess I I still try to wrap my mind around like how do we as a Christian like what if someone is secure in their Faith they have genuine faith in Jesus Christ but they don't visit

widows and orphans in their affic you know they don't heal the sick they don't do those things but their faith and trust is in Jesus is that almost impossible because their faith and trust in is in Jesus they would just naturally do those things does that make sense like it's not like I feel like Christians look at it like they're shooting at a Target like okay I'm a Christian so Bing I got to do this boom I got to do this but like they would just naturally do it because they have faith right all right

so the passage you started off with was Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my father who's in heaven many will come to me on that day and say Lord Lord do we not prophesy in your name cast out Demons perform Miracles then I will tell them plainly I never knew you depart from me you who practice lawlessness the Apostle Paul taught we're saved by grace through faith but that Grace is shown in the fruit of the

spirit love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentl and self-control in other words Paul was not preaching F uh cheap Grace he was communicating a Grace a love of God an experience of the love of God that Changes my heart so that love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentl and self-control grow within my character grow within my heart and the issue that James is addressing is not you go you go to Heaven by your works not by your faith that's not James's Point James clearly points out that faith is crucial but he goes on

to say faith without works is dead what does that mean it means there's such a thing as sincere Faith Versus insincere faith it means that sincere faith will be shown by your lifestyle by how you obey Jesus as Lord and if you claim to have faith but have no Works guess what you have insincere Faith which means if I habitually practice sin and live in sin but I go around saying but I believe in Jesus James is saying you better go back and question whether your faith is sincere Faith because guess what James says the

demons believe in God and they Shudder and they ain't going to heaven and they don't really submit to Christ they don't submit to God of course intellectually they know God exists so faith is not just an intellectual gymnastic instead real Faith involves your mind your emotions your will and your heart the total you trusting in Christ committing your life to him I feel like something that I struggle with or I find myself asking God for forgiveness for is I can get bother Easily I can it's easy for me to get frustrated and I find myself

asking for forgiveness all the time and I mean it out of my heart I'm trying to I think you mentioned it yesterday during bible study like some people try to white ugle things you know like I think it's definitely a a challenge and it makes it makes me want to get a grip you know I no no one likes getting frustrated I don't think anyone enjoys That I don't enjoy I just find that to be a downfall Within Myself how can I do that how can I how can I get better at not getting frustrated

easy you know it's easy for me to lose patience with people when they're not understanding the point I'm making across to them or easy to lose patience with my friends when I've said the same thing a thousand times they still don't understand it you know or lose patience with someone close that Doesn't know Jesus and I've just shared with them so many times so many times they're just not getting it they're not getting it it's easy for me to get frustrated and go man like how are you not understanding how can I how can I

get a grip I don't I don't want to I don't want my frustration to separate me from God you know I don't that's my biggest fear like I genuinely love Jesus and I want people to know him that's like my biggest heart's desire um but I Also do care about my character I want to be more like him every day and I don't want that to be the one thing that turn someone away from Jesus because I let my temper get to me you know or I let something like that so are you talking about

just in the context of sharing the gospel or are you saying generally in general yeah yeah well you're with the right company I would say that's probably been ours in terms of our Achilles heel our Our biggest slip up on a regular basis you know especially in competitive atmospheres playing basketball and with with different Angry students like you said it is very hard to keep your cool it's it's almost and you got got to be an angel pretty much to be able to keep your cool totally so for me a lot of it has to

do with what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet forfeits his soul and people have always thought that That means means you're gaining money and you're losing your soul in terms of your salvation it actually doesn't mean that when Christ talks about he's what he's saying is your soul in terms of what does it profit all these great things you're getting accumulating if your soul is so CH churning and mixed up and your emotional world is out of place so he's actually talking in a very Earthly kind of way so

I never knew that I always thought it was more Heavenly Salvific but what he's communicating is Soul Care like you got to take care of your soul and when we look at Soul Care it's sometimes the best thing for your spiritual life is to take a nap John orberg said you guys probably know John orberg California big church Meno Park and I agree with that sometimes the best thing for your soul is exercise to burn off that type of energy Sometimes the best thing for your soul is to get deeper into a prayer life some

things The Sometimes the best thing for your soul is to hang out with friends more frequently there's so many different ways I think Christ has formed us as complex human beings to deal with those unruly emotions that is so important and yet often times we don't I slip into even though I've studied this endlessly I slip into forgetting these things on how to take care of my soul and I always turn to David in the Psalms for somebody Who struggled with his temper who strugg struggled with his impulsivity who struggled with his lust who struggled

being able to sleep at night who struggled with eating his tears every single day especially when he was on the run from his son or Saul so he had depression anxiety he had tremendous amounts of anger tremendous amounts of lust with Bas Sheba so for him it came back to praise the Lord all my soul all my inmost being praise His holy name and Do not forget his benefits Psalm 1031 he talks to his soul and so when you're angry I'm angry you're angry one of the best things we can do is talk to our

souls why are you downcast on my soul why so Disturbed within me put your hope in God for all yet Praise Him My Savior and my Lord so all suffering anger unruly emotions if they end in praise that's going to help us greatly in dealing with taming those emotions in a healthy way that's really Encouraging um I feel like another thing that a lot of people struggle with in our generation you kind of mentioned it earlier how like if we don't have a personal God then love is just like a sex drive and a chemical

reaction I get asked all the time by young people about lust and they always ask me like how to defeat it like how do I defeat lust how do I defeat lust and and I think you kind of mentioned it but in my mind I'm like these guys are like Trying to White Knuckle it like they're trying to fight it themselves isn't the only sin that it say to flee from right so hypothetically if you even try to get in the boxing ring with it you're just going to lose like that's what Jesus is saying

or the Bible saying like how would a young person want to defeat lust if there's a young person like it's it actually breaks my heart if I open my phone I get hundreds of messages from 13-year-old boys 14y old kids 13 14 year Old kids that struggle with watching explicit videos on the Internet or struggle with sexual sexual Temptation sexual drive such a young age and they're just like wanting answers and they feel like they can't defeat it like what would you like what would you say to that that young kid that's like I want

to beat this but I feel like I can't first of all sex is a beautiful gift God thought of sex not some Playboy or play girl not some hedonist God Thought of Sex God created US male and female and sex is a beautiful gift from God second point in our culture today sex has to do with quality and price so if the quality of the sex goes up and the price goes down wow babe let's shack up but if the quality goes down and the price relationally you're a pain in the neck I'm getting bored

by you the price goes up this relationship is over and that's basically using a person and so Jesus says no we don't use each other Instead we learn to make a lifelong commitment to each other and then within the context of that lifelong commitment we enjoy sex as a gift from God well that's fine Cliff but before I get married I'm going to really struggle with lust yes I definitely did struggle with lust no question about it so how do we deal with that first of all we worship now worship is not singing some boring

songs worship is not um wasting an hour going to church worship is all Of God worship is a struggle as I move out of self-absorption into being caught up with God's Wonder majesty and greatness so worship is crucial next point is love is crucial to really know that Jesus loves me and then to begin to rest in that love to become secure and stable in that love is a beautiful thing then you've got to be a realist you've got to realize you've got a sinful nature which means we'll take a beautiful gift like sex and

we'll twist That thing all out of what it was meant to be and that's tragic but when we realize that we understand I have a sinful nature I have a lot of Twisted perverted drives and now Lord Jesus help me I want to rest in you fill me with your Holy Spirit and help me to change practically I think exercise is crucial blow off steam blow off a lot of energy please exercise and then know yourself I used to work among Prostitutes in pimps in inner city Boston I can promise you I was never ever

tempted to pull out my wallet hand money to a woman so I could have sex with her turn off for me but that's the way I am but I know very well that there is an issue of Sports Illustrated called the swimsuit issue that I have no business looking at because it's going to D drag me straight into lust so we got to know ourselves we got to know where we're weak where we're strong we Got to know where we're going to fall and where we're probably not going to fall and then we got to

steer away from those areas that we know we're going to fall so it takes a bit of self- knowledge it takes a bit of thinking it through and then finally for me to deal with lust for me personally which is I know it's different and unique it was really helpful to memorize scripture and whenever those lustful thoughts would pop into my mind I would begin there was A man at the Pharisees named Nicodemus a ruler of the Jews who came to Jesus by night and said to him good teacher you must be sent from God

for no man could do these miraculous signs that you do except God be with him and Jesus says I tell you the truth Nick unless you're born again you'll never enter the Kingdom in Heaven I would go through that passage and it was amazing as I would recite scripture lustful thoughts would leave they could not stay in my Mind with scripture but I know that doesn't work for everybody I'm not saying it does for me personally it did work it was very helpful no I agree I feel like when I I had to memorize a

lot of scripture from my Christian School that I went to and I even remember me memorizing versus whether I remember them verbatim or you know if from when I was going to Vacation Bible School when I was really young um and that's like super helpful why why would you say People should memorize scripture I find myself like for example maybe it's battling temptation of some sort maybe it's when you get frustrated what are the other benefits like I think like it's it's cool that when you can I when you can ask questions to either of

you guys you know the scripture off the top of your head and I think that's powerful why why should people memorize scripture nowadays why why is it important like do you think it's because one day the Bible's going to be so changed that no one's going to know really scripture is anymore you know is that is that is that why people should is it just so that they know him or anything like any any anything like that the most viral naturopath is this woman who has been arrested for a lot of her claims about what

medicine does not do so big Pharma and what herbs do and that sort of thing she's a strong Christian and she's gone to jail for what she's pushed in that Area connected to that with her Christian faith she has talked a lot about the importance of memorizing scripture for brain health and she's pulled up studies to show that those who've memorized scripture have actually been able to deal with dementia and Alzheimer's and avoid it way better than those who haven't and you know my skepticism was first like oh yeah you can remember any type of

wisdom saying and that'll help But no nothing nothing has helped as well as scripture so whether that's be for Supernatural reasons that God is given us or whether it's just how incredibly written scripture is his mom my grandma the last words that I heard on her lips was memorizing scripture and then the rest of what she said was Babel I couldn't understand it and so there's something about the word of God that sticks with you unlike anything else and that is connected from Me to the Holy Spirit I don't think that's anything else I think

there's something to that I love that friedrick nii the most renowned atheist who really broke down our culture in a fascinating way one of the my favorite things that he said though is those people who claim to be atheists who are living to help the poor who are tithing and being generous they say they're atheists but they're really Christians CU they're living out that lifestyle yeah but what He specifically said about scripture was the power of it cuz he was raised actually with Christian influence but when he died he was like my grandma he hated

Christianity but his last words were the scripture he memorized W and so I don't think that's God playing a dirty trick but I think it's the power yet again of memorizing scripture and how that can change you for me I I could not be more thankful to Memorizing scripture and my parents were the ones who helped me when it came to almost Losing My Life um fortunately it just turned out to be something called this crazy hgic migraine which had stroke like comparisons but when I was a sophomore in college I was out to a

pub with some friends my brother and I literally could not understand what they were saying and they were speaking very simple English and then all of a sudden I couldn't speak and my brother started To notice he was like wow what's going on with Stuart and literally the only word I could say was Hospital eventually cuz I let this ride for about 45 minutes to an hour and still just wouldn't go away so I was like what is this a random like anxious panic attack so I go to the hospital the nurses and doctors are

freaking out based off my vitals and how I was speaking like they were freaking out they were saying this is definitely a stroke like a serious stroke sure Enough Psalm 46:10 very short verse be still and know that I am God and then Philippians 4 do not be anxious about anything but in everything through prayer and petition present your request to God and the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and Minds in Christ Jesus I couldn't speak couldn't retain information and yet these verses came flooding into my mind my vitals

came down to perfectly Normal and so again I don't think I could have just had a mantra and that would have helped me the memorizing scripture connected me immediately to God and to the Holy Spirit when I was the most frightened that I'd ever been in my life there's a there's a Bible verse where it where it says out of the mouth comes the abundance of the heart and I feel like it's not just like what I say I feel like it's what I do I feel like If I do stuff and what I say

it com from the deepest part of my heart so when I look at that scripture and then I look at my life and when I don't necessarily like Paul writes like I do things that I don't want to do and then the things that I do do I don't do and like I don't know why is that mean in that moment if I do something for example that necessarily I don't want to do or I say something that I don't mean like I get frustrated mhm And it's not my character I get frustrated and I

I don't really portray Jesus the best when I get frustrated does does that mean that that really sincerely came from like a part of me that wasn't quot righteous does that mean that there was a part of me that was it just that I just wasn't loving Jesus in that moment does that mean or what happens if like we're sitting here right now and maybe I don't know you say something that I don't like And I'm like really Cliff what the heck and I get angry and then I have a heart attack God forbid and

I die that's the last thing I do right before I die and I stand before God what does that what does that make me he goes through everything I've ever done in my life and he's like oh Bryce right before you pass away there you got really angry at Cliff like does that mean that like you know would that be some deciding factor with God that because I got angry right Before I die that there's there's some separation between me and him I get worried about that I think about that like oh my gosh I

don't know the day I'm going to die Jesus does but what if what if I pass away right as I've done something that I regret that I would regret or done something I wish I wouldn't have done all right you got to be real careful with that thinking because if you listen to yourself what you're Saying is Well maybe me going to heaven is based on at the time that I draw my last breath I'm doing a good deed no you and I are not going to heaven Bryce because when we draw our last Last

Breath we're working in a soup kitchen or we're helping somebody else you and me going to heaven is based on what Christ did on the cross and so even if you and I have road rage and in that road rage we have a heart attack and die that doesn't mean we're going to hell Because our going to heaven has nothing to do with us doing good at the last moment of Our Lives it has to do with everything with what Christ did on the cross but you and I are a lot alike Bryce in that

we get frustrated we get get frustrated with how we don't always live a Christlike life and I certainly do and it sounds like you do as well that's one of the reasons we got to read the Bible and memorize it why Noah was a tremendous man he led the his family Through the flood and what did he do after he got off the ark the dude got drunk It's the grace of God that no one needed what about Abraham great man of Faith went down to left Ur went to the promised land went past the

promised land and said to Pharaoh oh this woman she's my sister she's not my wife she can be part of your Herm what are you doing Abraham you idiot well he needs God's grace because he's got a sinful nature what about David a man after God's Own Heart commits adultery with Bas Sheba murders up her murders her husband Uriah in order to cover it up what are you an idiot David and then in Psalm 32 and Psalm 51 he cries out to God for forgiveness all right so that's clearly chronicled in the scriptures how we

all need the grace of God then you got Peter one of the leaders of the first century church he denies knowing Christ three times before Christ is crucified and then excellent quoting of that Romans 7 passage the Apostle Paul the great Apostle Paul writes the good I want to do I don't do the evil I don't want to do I do Wretched Man that I am who's going to deliver me from this body of death thanks be to God who gives all of us the victory through Jesus Christ so we're going to struggle but that's

a reminder that we have a sinful nature we got feet of clay just like Noah Abraham David Peter and Paul and we desperately need God's holy spirit his grace his presence and then you talked about getting frustrated with people who don't accept Christ and I certainly know that frustration but what I've realized Bryce is wait a second Cliff why are you getting so frustrated you're getting frustrated because you've made it as clear as you can to this Rascal and they don't accept Christ yeah but wait a second Cliff nobody comes to Christ Because Cliff gives

a good answer to a difficult question people come to Christ because the Holy Spirit Works in their heart and they choose to respond to Christ so what I have to remember is the holy spirit does not have this person at the point yet where they want to accept Christ ease up Cliff because it doesn't depend on you to convert anybody I cannot convert anybody that's the work of God's holy spirit so you mention the Holy Spirit and I think something that I Struggle to wrap my mind around is the differences between grieving and quenching the

Holy Spirit and then what it looks like blaspheming him I always get asked what the unforgivable sin is and I used to read this book like right when I became a Christian I locked myself in my room on Christmas break with a Bible in this book called Systematic Theology by Wayne grudo and uh it had a basic Foundation of like the Trinity things like that all of it in There and it didn't give like a specific answer it gave like oh it could be this or it could be this or blashe the Holy Spirit could

be this and I'm like what is it like you know can a Christian blashe the Holy Spirit like if I curse the holy spirit is that blaspheming him or what ex what exactly is that and what is grieving the Holy Spirit look like I find them as synonymous in many ways with small differences but when I Hear grieving the Holy Spirit blaspheming again if we just take it as GD if we just take it as God take a hike get out of my life forever well again that's turning things into it's up to me to

work towards my salvation because it's me saying this and I can't be forgiven and it's one thing especially see I would add to what you guys were saying earlier about you know if I die in Road Rage or or anger I think Christ is going to look at the Pattern of your life and Galatians 5:22 you know the growth of the fruits of the spirit of love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and selfcontrol that's walking in the spirit so when I hear blaspheming and grieving that's connected to are you living in the flesh

or are you living in the spirit and so what it is is are you living a hypocritical life rice it's not that you curse God out once it's not that you Slip up and and say the GD word once and somehow that's blasing the Holy Spirit you're going to hell no again that would be putting Christ back up on the cross and saying you didn't die for me you didn't really take away my sins this is this whole thing is not really by Grace it's by my own works so what I believe there even though

there are different interpretation exactly I would say it's more so this hypocritical life of saying oh yeah I accept the Holy Spirit I'm Walking in the spirit of love joy peace patience and all these other spiritual gifts even connected to that I should be living out but then turning away and just living in the flesh yeah that's why Kiera nightly when she said oh it's so easy for you Christians who I like by the way great actress it's so easy for your you Christians to just accept God and call yourself a Christian because you can

just do whatever you want and then say oh God please just forgive me No I believe that that type of hypoc hypocritical living and hypocrisy is exactly what grieving the Holy Spirit blasphemy the holy spirit is because it's saying what they call hyper Grace like that me cheap Grace hyper Grace yeah exactly yeah yeah dang that's so interesting when there's okay so in John 14 when Jesus talks about the Holy Spirit he says that he's the helper that he's going to help you remember things and he's going to teach you when I think Of the

Holy Spirit when I surrendered my life to Jesus the Holy Spirit was a seal is the seal on my heart correct that I know that I know that I know not that I'm just believing in Jesus for fire insurance I'm not trying to like get out of hell but like he's the Seal of my heart the helper and the teacher at least for me like I said when I had my experience with Jesus inside a Waffle House I Surrender my life to Jesus Inside a waffle house um I knew something was going on Supernatural unexplainable

but I knew it was the Holy Spirit we are working in my life but when I surrendered my life to Jesus and I got vulnerable God I need you I need you in my life I want you in my life Jesus Christ you you I want you to be the Lord Of My Life there wasn't like a a and I go flying backwards and I felt the Holy Spirit throat punch me and enter into my enter enter into my body You know H how does how how does someone know that they have the Holy Spirit

in them you know how do they know that they're the helper how do they know that and then piggybacking off of that a term that I hear in the charismatic world is baptism of the holy spirit is that a separate thing what exactly is that I'm just curious both just both those questions all right I am very excited about that experience you had in Waffle House thank you all right now there's a Danger with that and the danger is that Bryce would say if you're a real Christian you had to have the type of experience

I had in the Waffle House no when you read the Bible you begin to realize God's a really big God and he treats us uniquely and therefore your experience brce is going to be a little different from my experience from steuart's experience and that's okay the problem is when I have an experience of God's presence and then I make it Normalized and say okay this is normally what's going to happen if you put your faith in Christ you're going to have my type of experience false God works in all of our Lives uniquely and we

got to be very careful that we don't take our experience and say this is what you've got to have if you've really accepted Christ does that make sense that makes plenty of sense secondly I'm convinced that a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit when they put their faith in Christ in other words nobody puts their faith in Christ because they're really smart nobody puts their faith in Christ because they're really spiritual nobody puts their faith in Christ because they're really a wimp no people put their faith in Christ because God's holy spirit Works deep

within their soul and their heart drawing them to Christ chist and they choose to say yes and respond to God's holy spirit I have a younger Brother who's far more intelligent than me and he will look me in the face and say Cliff I've never had the type of spiritual experiences that you articulate so clearly the mistake would be for me to look my brother in the face and say well then you must not be a genuine follower Christ see that's taking my experience and making it normal for everybody no he has his own unique

coming to Christ and growth in Christ I have my own unique coming to Christ and growth in Christ and that's a beautiful thing how God meets us uniquely as individuals see we've had people in our church say you cannot meet God at least you can't meet him in a powerful way if you're not raising your hands in worship you know because Psalms does talk about lifting up holy hands during worship but that's not supposed to be normative for each and every person throughout every culture CU we have some charismatics in our church Which it's beautiful

when they do raise their hands and yeah we also have a lot of Asians and the majority of those agents are not lifting their hands because they come out of more of a a lot of them are PCA background so it's more intellectual type of thinking through the faith rather than more the emotional side and so whenever I hear somebody say oh you got to do it one way or the other and that sends you to heaven just like my dad said it's very Risky to go there yeah I want to ask you just a

few random questions and then I I'll ask a final question that points back to Jesus these have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus I feel like dang I've just we've just had the privilege of getting to know you guys like off the rip all you know when you guys aren't answering difficult questions even though I asked you guys some questions last night dinner great That was really good we got we got to like have fun and just hear hear some stories and it was cool like what's your's favorite ice cream like you know you guys

like dogs or cats you know yeah yeah what's your favorite ice cream my favorite it might be yours no no I think yours is different the great town of Stanford you're just in is the only town I know of in Connecticut that has genuine peppermint stick ice cream with the different colors like you can get Peppermint ice cream that's all pink but the the peppermint stick is all different colors and we only get it in Canada and I have not found it anywhere in the US and I've looked a lot somebody found in in a

ice cream shop in Stamford and I was like okay this is heaven right here that's awesome peppermint I do not drink coffee I do not like coffee I love coffee ice cream okay that's interesting I feel like it tastes good too thank you my own Bible teacher Used to make these like coffee uh ice cream float things kind of coffee favorite color you have the favorite color blue blue blue okay okay I like it I like purple nice that's my favorite I think I like lavender purple you know I think it's like pretty purple very

nice beautiful are you guys a dog person or a cat person dog dog dog cat but even above those two is horse horse absolutely have you guys ever wanted to have like a pet Farah I like that question I never had that desire no I would though you would yeah yeah I think I think they just smell so bad I think they stink feris too like you're not allowed to give them a bath do they eat each other like turbles do I don't know but you guys know what pet land is is that like a

thing out here I think I've heard of it yeah Shan pet St yeah and they have in there and you can go I went with MD one time and I put one on my back and it was So creepy I feel like and I've said this to my wife every time I feel like every time we have a a new baby it looks like a fret when it first comes out it just kind of has like a I don't know what it is but I always say that she's like all right let's let's calm down

here it's not a fret okay Stuart let creating the image of God that's funny if you guys could have a superpower only one flying Or telekinesis like you could know you were sitting here you could know what I was thinking right now or super strength what would that superpower be oh flying easily have you ever had a dream where you're flying absolutely I've had a couple of them and especially the ones where you're taking off that always wakes me up because I'll just like bounce up and I'll freak out like okay I'm not in the

air this Stines but flying would be amazing oh yeah same Here flying would be incredible I love watching birds fly it's just amazing and then if I watch a jet fly to think that that heavy hunk of metal can get up and fly is just mindboggling for me it's crazy is it I was just telling steuart I have the worst flight anxiety ever I'm on a plane and it barely like the turbulence barely hits I buckle up I shut the movie off I'm like strapped in and Josh and MADD always laugh at me but I

get so scared terrified is so scary Yeah all right I I have one more question before I ask the final question you mentioned dream and it just made me remember uh I feel like a lot of people take dreams very serious nowadays um I know a lot of people that base their whole uh base the decisions they make on God gave me a dream on this God gave me a dream on this and I'm just trying to figure out I just want to be a good respectful skeptic I don't think there's anything wrong with being

a good Respectful skeptic like what does Scripture say where do we draw the line how do I draw the line with a Dream from God versus like I've heard this before just to give you an example oh Bryce I know this girl's my wife I had a dream about her last night but what if you had a dream about her because you've been thinking for thinking about her for the past few weeks and it's not a dream from God you know what I mean like where do You draw the on like dreams cuz I just

like want to be so cautious I'm not someone that necessarily dreams a lot but when I dream it's easy for me to take it very serious because I don't just dream a lot you know MH and sometimes the dreams are like really silly I had a dream on the airplane when I was sleeping over here that the airplane was going like this and it terrified me today I didn't take that one serious at all but like where Do you draw the line yeah I don't really look at dreams to often and try and decipher whether

God is really telling me something or not I usually try and find that in prayer and worship and what other close friends who are really strong Believers tell me that's how I believe God speaks to me the most I ended up in this position where I'm at right now because my closest friend said Stuart we know you want to go be a lawyer or being a sports Marketing but just to let you know the potential the the opportunities that are opening up for you we see where you're gifting is you don't want to go to

Seminary but you should go to Seminary so I think that was God speaking through them because sure enough I do I do believe my talents are probably being used best in this area rather than if it was someplace else so no I would go way more so through close Christian friends who've been praying For you who've been talking these things out for you who've been looking at Bryce what are your gifts here how is God using you and go through that rather than I just got a dream and I'm not saying reject dreams you know

young men old men middle-aged men women will dream dreams right scripture talks about and so I I yes connect dreams but always connect it back to scripture connect it back to what other faithful close friends are saying about it and then Just pray as much as possible and then act and if this girl might be your wife we go act and read her you know get to know her as much as possible so that that's how I draw the line there connected to this is really interesting because I was just talking to a somebody very

high up in politics and this person asked me in Gaza and so many places why are these Muslims becoming Christians through dreams what's going on and this person Is agnostic and I said look I don't know what's going on again I I don't put a ton of stock in dreams but I have a friend who's gone over to Africa and he's saying the number one way he's noticing Muslims and people of other faiths coming to know Christ is through dreams meeting Christ in dreams so it shows right there the power of Dreams how many thousands

of these people their personal testimonies are I got to leave the faith I'm in because I'm meeting Christ that I believe there is something going on there God meets Us in different ways and often times is connected to what kind of culture and context we're in I think that that's a good point even relating back to the prophecy thing that we talked about earlier like going going back to scripture you know someone's like Christ Jesus come back November 2nd just going back and Jesus I don't even know the day or the hour like oh okay

I think that's a good point like weighing In with scripture that brought up another quick question I had just you guys do a lot of apologetics evangelism defending the faith interacting with people we do a lot of evangelism ourselves first Peter 3 says be prepared to make a defense to anyone who ask for the Hope inside of you but he says do it with gentleness and respect how are you how can someone how can I be better at sharing my faith or def like defending the Hope inside of me Jesus Christ doing It with gentleness

and respect but also getting the point across of like that there is a Heaven There is a hell there is a reality of who Jesus is and if you put your faith and trust in him you'll get to spend an infinite amount of time with him if you don't put your fa faith and trust in him you won't get to spend an infinite amount of time with him CU I feel I want to be able to do it effectively but get the point across without you know shoving something down Their throat like Hey brother you're

going to burn in hell if you don't believe in what I'm telling you I don't want to do that M but like there's is kind of like a partial truth to it of like hell is a reality if you don't put your trust in Jesus how do you get that point across of doing it in gentleness and respect mhm I like the Las Vegas comedian who said how much do I have to hate you if I believe that Jesus is the way to heaven And I don't tell you it's a great point it's the love

of Christ that motivates us to share Christ how much do I have to hate you if I believe that Jesus is the way to heaven and I'm not willing to tell you powerful question second Point listen to people understand where they're coming from and then apply the gospel to their unique situation well CL that involves a lot of reading and studying and understanding Different World Views yeah It does but you got a good mind Bryce so continue to learn continue to study but study in such a way that it's helping you answer people very practically

very specifically regarding the questions that they raise do it with gentleness and respect yeah and that's been hard for me as Stuart alluded to earlier too many times Bryce I've lost my temper with people too many times I've come come off with a chip on my shoulder in a chippy way and that's not good I was at Brown University a student came walking down the sidewalk saying oh here's another one of them minded fundamentalist Born Again Christians out here telling us we all need Jesus and I said oh yeah and here comes another narrow-minded Ivy

leak student who hasn't heard a word I say but it was automatically stereotype me and that's intellectually dishonest and I didn't say it quite as Softly As I just said well fortunately the guy didn't Want the 9s he came and sat down right in the front of the crowd and after a few minutes the Holy Spirit convicted me that I had come on on way too strong and way too hostile a manner and so I looked him in the face and said buddy I I really blew it with you and I came on far too

strong would you forgive me and he looked at me and said yes I forgive you now let's continue to have this discussion and I heaved a sigh of relief and said Thank You Lord and thank you to This guy and we continue to have a discussion so yes I've blown it way too many times and I've had to ask forgiveness of God and forgiveness of people and that's good I'm responsible for the way I treat people and when I mistreat people I better have the humility to ask God for forgiveness people for forgiveness and by

God's grace change and grow up and mature if you look it contextually as well John chapter 4 woman at the well Jesus meets Her with tremendous gentleness and kindness John Chapter 2 he's flipping over tables the money changers saying you're tearing down my father's house you're making a total joke of it all right well that's pretty different communication going on right there or you go to first and second Kings where you have Elijah so clearly heckling the prophets of Baal like heckling them or you have Paul saying I wish these people would go to The

point of cutting off their like like they're they're wieners these judaizers because of how much they're focusing on Law and how self-righteous they are but then you have these passages gentleness respect in Jude it talks about being very patient and loving towards those who doubt which I love because I doubt a lot in different ways so you have this tremendous combination of them all and when we step on college campuses it really frustrates me although I love Them to death these super quiet shy guys who I will tell usually everybody comes over fortunately there is

a draw but there's still some Who Fallen into this politically correct culture that we're in and say no nope we're not going to go over there we're not going to discuss I'm too scared to do have any type of discussion or debate and they just fall off all right well that's not when Peter when Christ when Paul talk about gentleness and respect in different Kinds of ways it's not it right you got to be bold with the gospel you got to keep your lanterns burning and so you got to read the person as well prophets

of Bale woman at the well you're going to share your faith differently but at times you got to be direct and intense there's too many Christians yet again who are falling into this young Meek and Mild approach where people aren't going to listen and people are going to say oh that's that's cute that's sad yeah I'm Gonna pass on by so it's it's a combination we we get it's hung up often times unfortunately even today on universities where all these fire and brimstone guys come out and I like what you said they get part of

the Gospel right but when they're communicating that kind of way how are they displaying love right see he gets the compliment all the time I get it sometimes of you're speaking past the person to other people showing that you love them and Want them to come to know know Christ and even when you're debating intensely with this guy you're showing people that you truly do love him cuz you're really going after these ideas exactly to to break them down down and show him the love of Christ but you got to stay there people have to

understand and see okay you're actually going after that person not to put a notch on your belt oh God hey I saved another Soul because you actually care about that person right so That's the Nuance approach that was a really good point about the John 4 scripture cuz when I think about Jesus coming up that woman he's like yeah you've been with like five dudes right with right now's D your husband exactly that's crazy oh my gosh I don't know if I would have said that but right but that's who needed so there's almost like

a degree of like what you can say I feel like if I go home right now and the guys that I've grown up with from since I was a little boy until now I'm friends with them if I told them hey stop doing that or they say something that's inappropriate and I went hey hey Shut up like we're close enough to where they wouldn't take offense to that maybe that's a little harsh we going hey shut up we've been spent 20 years together all of our Lives born and raised lived in the same spot they

wouldn't take offense to me saying that versus if I Just met someone here today and they said something inappropriate I probably wouldn't be like hey shut up hit him on the knee probably be like hey maybe we shouldn't say that right now right is that kind of like what we're getting at right now yep reading the person my last question would be I want to hear both of you guys God forbid if your last moment was right now and there were a college campus crowd right in Front of them and you could leave them with

one last thing and then when you got done saying what you were saying you just I don't know got raptured to heaven or something I don't know you guys disappeared and you were with the Lord Rapture not shot right right what what would you say death for a follower of Christ is far better than life because Paul writes in Philippians 1:23 I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far now that's hard for me because I've never experienced that but I have experienced this life and it's been a good life for

me I've been very blessed and yet that is the truth I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far that's how really is that's how good he is and that's how wonderful Heaven's going to be I would say please go read passages of scripture on your buildings please go Read what the original Vision was in every single Ivy League school it's not hard it's everywhere on your your buildings when we were at University of Texas the truth will set you free and there's endless amounts of Bible verses out of John and

other places please why are they there you're walking by them every single day why are they there don't you want to get to know potentially this God that all the founders of your universities the point Was for people to come to learn to glorify God better to grow in their knowledge of him and then to go out and share that Faith with other people why have you ever looked into it so that's one of the things I would Le them leave them with you know Crim the Crimson paper out of Harvard for example in 2006

they wrote a good paper saying that 80% of college students at Harvard said that they had struggled with serious depression in that given year 80% and the microcosm which is basically just a display of what's going on in a large culture was Harvard and clearly their there were studies taken on their religions and it was all Satanism atheism and Christianity was ridiculous kicked out any idea of a loving personal God and to see that versus how healthy it was when Harvard was just a bunch of missionaries wow and you go all the way back to

for Example Medieval Times depression wasn't talked about at all because there was a God people were going out after and this President of Czechoslovakia after World War I talked about how he saw direct correlations between countries that believed in God he did all these studies and and those that didn't and the suicide rates so so many of these students the reason why I bring these examples up is because so many students I see on college campuses now want to Share their mental health stories want to share about their nihilism want to share about their emptiness

and so how are we going to fill that right and I would start with hey look at your buildings what are they pointing to this peace of God that transcends all understanding why why would that be on your building who is that from is that from the devil or something else and so hopefully filling that god-shaped hole I I would I would try and point them to Touch points you know that's encouraging Cliff Stewart thank you guys for sitting down with us and talking I have so many more questions but I got honor you guys

may we'll have to do it another let do it another time man we'll meet up in a city Delight to talk thanks thank you so much I'm gonna put cliff and Stewart's give me an Channel like actually seriously when I became a Christian your guys' videos have like genuinely blessed me and challenged me when I was in that First year of like being a Christian and wrestling with God and the tough questions and I would go on Google search up these tough questions it it would shock me that y'all's videos would pop up every time

and when you would click on one and watch it through more questions that I had in the back of my mind would be answer answered I know like if I'm thinking them other people were probably thinking them as well I really appreciate you guys for just like Being obedient and and challenging students I really appreciate you guys thank you guys a lot for what keep going Bryce you're doing an awesome work thank you doing awesome work man big difference keep it going yeah sweet take Shi the F no I ain't afraid it's a new Crusade

this ain't no shade say even s up