I Investigated the Country Where Slavery is Still Legal…

This is the United States of America, where slavery is still legal under the 13th Amendment. If you've been convicted of a crime, you can be legally enslaved. If it looks like slavery, it smells like slavery, it sounds like slavery, it's slavery.

Turns out when Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery by ratifying the 13th amendment in 1865, they left in one little exception. Convicted criminals. You locked up.

We're going to flee this to like everyone's slave. Not just black people. everyone out.

And refusal to work can be met with harsh punishments like solitary confinement, loss of privileges like visitation, phone calls, commissary access, recreation time, family visits, good time credits, and access to books, hygiene products, and snacks. And the prisoners that do make small amounts of money can have up to 80% of their earnings deducted for various prison related expenses before they see any of it, while seven states pay them nothing. So, who benefits off of their labor?

And does America have financial upside in locking more and more Americans in prison to maintain a steady supply of stateowned slaves? More importantly, did slavery ever end in America? Or did it just rebrand itself to something more socially acceptable?

Some may not know is almost half of those men and women fighting fires are convicted felons. And this, but it's not money these inmates are working for. It's their future freedom.

Before I speak up with ex- prisoners who are locked up in Texas, work in the deadly hot fields for their master Uncle Sam. I went to one of the most incarcerated cities in America to see if they knew that slavery is still legal in America. Did you know it's still legal to enslave someone if they commit a crime in the United States of America?

You know what? I think we're all slaves. Did you know about that exception?

Wow. Wow. I didn't know that.

Yes, I do know that. Did not know that. The way the government is going.

Yeah, I would believe it. Yeah. That come as a surprise.

Yes. Yeah. surprised me a little bit.

Doesn't surprise me at all. No, I'm not surprised. That is um disturbing.

Isn't that crazy? Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Crazy, right? No one really thinks about it.

That's weird. Do you support slavery? No comment, buddy.

Fair. Have a great day. You're in 2025.

You know, you shouldn't be enslaved. Some bull. Hell no.

Hell no. No. No.

No. Shouldn't even be a thought in mine ever. I'm not saying they should, but it will happen.

And if it do and people don't fight back, that's on Do you think the slavery ever ended in America? No, it just transformed. It's never changed.

It It's always been that way. If you know the process of how indigenous services went and then how it formed slavery, you understand that this is what's going on now. Just not just black people anymore.

So like everyone's slave, not just black people, not just people of color. It's everyone now. And everyone's starting to feel it.

I think that law should be ratified. It should be uh changed for sure. No, it shouldn't be legal to enslave somebody if they commit a crime.

Is there any crime that would warrant whiplashing in the fields like plantation style? No, absolutely not. No matter the crime, no matter even like a child rapist.

Uh, well, no one murder. No one. It's getting way heavy.

Murder. Yeah. I mean, those guys, I don't know.

Maybe them. Yeah. I mean, I just Yeah, I don't know.

Even if you're a heinous criminal who commits a terrible crime. Oh, no. There's no slaves.

Shouldn't be any slaves. I mean, I think all crimes are different levels. I mean, you're getting dealt with in there by other inmates.

Justice happened on its own. Whipping like that. We're going back 100 years or right there.

The crime and the time should matter. No forced labor. No.

And the severity of their crime should matter. And how much time they get. Like I said, our legal system is jacked up.

People are getting more time than they deserve for small things that are like as much as a gram a week. Where I draw the line is that if there's corporations making money on it, like not employing actual people and just using the the inmates, then I see a problem. and then they can't keep the job once they get released from prison due to the felony status often times.

Yeah, it's not good. I feel like the federal prison system is just like recycling black men specifically due to like the laws that are being passed. It's hard to make change.

The oligarchy that holds the power is making it harder for us to reach the change. We realize the 13th and 14th amendment created two citizenships within the United States. Freed the slaves, that's one citizenship.

You're born a United States citizen. You're not under the rule of the United States government that exists today. It is a corporation.

And we're employees to this corporation or what? You're a slavery to that corporation. You got to have an income tax.

You're a slave under that. Let's make sure that we're not putting ourselves in position to become slaves. But when you have predators out there, it's not a choice.

The gazelle doesn't choose to get eaten by the lion. You locked up. They're going to flee the out of you.

Do you know anyone who's gotten a felony? One of my best friends, but he trying to shake back. You know, I do.

I'm I'm I'm a support him for that. Not immediate family, but I I know somebody who has people who got like long sentences for very very minimal uh things. How has that affected their life?

Forever. Forever. Forever.

Go to jail. That's a wrap. After talking to the people of New Orleans, I headed over to Gatesville, Texas, home to five out of the nine women's prisons and jails in Texas to meet up with Marcy Simmons, who spent 10 years working the fields out here after stealing $300,000 from her employer.

As I was getting B-roll of one of these women's prisons before the interview, perfect example of the overcriminalization of Americans unfolded before my very eyes. No, this is private property. You're on state property right now.

So this is public state private property as a state detective. Man, they try to get a rise out of you. We just need to get No, no.

Genuine confusions. As I filmed the outside of a prison funded by the tax dollars of Americans in a public parking lot, filming that which was in plain view. I quickly learned as to how little we really know about what goes on inside the prison walls.

So, we're trying to get some B-roll on the outside of the prison. Are we within our legal first amendment rights to film on the outside of the prison? Property is part of public property.

No, no, no. The public property is over there behind that stop sign. State property is still a part of public property as long as it's part of the accessible land.

Yes, sir. Can you 25 me at Valley? I have two guys that are refusing to leave.

That's not what's happen. Well, we're not refusing to. We're trying to get some clarity on the actual line itself.

We're not going to This is constitutionally protected ability to to film on the exterior of the prison, right? You still have the right to, you know, to record and all that, but not on state property on the other side of that stop sign. That's that's unconstitutional.

State property. Okay. What?

Okay. What business do y'all have on state on this state property? First amendment expression journalism.

Do you have an appointment? No, we don't have an appointment, but we're not trying to come on the inside of the premises. We're on the outside.

No. Y'all too close to the gate. I got here.

We don't know who y'all are. We're not trying to get a rise out of anyone. We prefer if you're out of the shop.

No, no, no, no. We're not going to be doing that, man. Hey.

Well, once again, show show them the privacy, man. Show them respect, man. What?

You don't you don't know what they've been through. What's going on? That's not the point.

That's my whole thing. You're misunderstanding the whole point. We're trying to get some B-roll on the outside of the prison.

Officer Cruz here, I guess, is setting the example for the lack of transparency and the ability for any journalist to gain access and understand what's even happening inside here. Yes. You cannot be on the premises filming.

You don't have authorization. So, I'm going to public property. No, sir.

I'm going to have to ask y'all to leave. You can't be here filming. Okay.

So, what we're trying to understand is if you're just making this up or if we're actually in violation of some Texas penal code going to answer your rules, your questions. I mean, your questions. I'm just telling you all need to leave.

Okay. Sir, please put your phone down. I would suggest you don't touch the property.

I'm not touching you. You don't have authorization to be recorded. They're sitting on the floor.

They have seats in the prison truck or like cattle. Hello. How y'all doing?

We're doing well. Hey, we're trying to get some B-roll of the uh facility here. From our understanding, this is state property and it's constitutionally protected.

You are in violation. And if they ask you to leave, you need to leave. I need your license and your driver's license.

Okay. Yes, sir. As far as uh secure area, it would be a question of publicly accessible.

I need your driver's license and I need it now, please. This is a penitentiary that houses very violent criminals. We have killers, rapists, murderers.

We have everything in here. And they have family members in the world that will come out here and play the same card. And when we have people here, we don't know who you are.

I see. Okay. So, why would you come here to mess with these people?

We're not here to mess with anyone, though. That's That's But that's exactly what's happening. Disrupting their operations.

So, we are in violation of Texas Fenal Code. Is that what you're saying? All I'm asking you to do is leave.

So, are we violating Texas? What I want you to do is get in your car and leave. All I'm asking is, are we in violation of Texas Penal Code?

One more time for you to get in your car and leave. Uh, I'm confused. We saw the prisoners, a bunch of convicted felons in a van being shipped in and out of the prison.

You just experienced the wrath of a small Texas town. Big hat, no cattle. Quite literally.

Zero transparency. The sheriff of the town himself showed up within 5 minutes and big dogged us. But we have five cop cars coming.

Bro, the same people that are elected to protect the constitution and to uphold the constitution and serve the public are utilizing that against you. My guess is they're they're not supposed to be shuttling prisoners in and out of that freely without chains and all that. It was a publicly accessible parking lot.

There was no gates. There's no signs. Just drive up there 50 ft away.

I bet you a lot of things can go missing or a lot of abuses can go unnoticed out here in these small towns. After nearly getting arrested myself for filming these prison walls in plain view to understand what really goes on inside of them, let me introduce you to someone who lived there. I'm here with Marcy, formerly incarcerated for how many years?

I was locked up for 10 years here in Gatesville uh for a theft charge. I also want you to meet George. I went to prison three different times and I was an addict and I didn't have the money and I would uh target fast food joints and I would wait till they closed and then I would uh throw down on whoever was taking the trash out and I'd walk them back inside and more often than not they had the the safe open and they would give me the money and I'd leave.

Yes, I did 27 total. I was an addict. I got out of the army at like right at 19 um in South Texas at a dance to go see a girlfriend.

I leave the dance. I've been drinking. I get pulled over so I get a little mouthy with the cops.

He didn't like it. He took me to a jail. He puts me in a tank of men who'd been convicted and were awaiting transferred to prison.

And I found out later he told him, "Take care of it. " I was beaten. I was raped pretty well all night.

Uh kicked out the next morning and said gone. So you're beaten and raped. Oh yeah, totally.

Yeah. And where are we right now? We are in one of the fields and I think that there's actually this was potatoes here uh that I used to work at.

I worked out here uh in the fields just about my entire incarceration. 10 years straight. How many hours a day did you work and how much were you paid per hour?

So, in Texas, incarcerated folks are paid zero dollars an hour. Um, and and are you forced to to work in the fields? Yeah, you absolutely have to work.

I'm not really against people working. Uh, but I'm against people doing kind of needless work. Yeah, day one you get here and they assign you a job and the next morning you get up and go to work.

So, day two, uh, in big girl prison right here on the Dr Lane Murray unit, I was out in the fields. And so what that looks like is you're strip searched uh before going to work. They'll say like three hoe because side note it's called the hoe squad.

Yeah. The ho in the dirt or you're a hoe. Well, I'm sure they are they mean hoe in the dirt.

But of course it was used derogatory like hoes line up hoes get over here. It was really degrading. So it's dehumanizing from the get-go for sure 100%.

You hike uh to a field and you've got officers on horseback. Uh they're armed. um they're shouting directives at you.

Day two in prison, you don't know what the hell's going on. You're scared. It's really nerve-wracking.

Uh you get out here and if it's August, it's 105° out here in Texas and it's not air conditioned in the dorm. And so you're already weak. And if you've been in county jail and the air conditioning, you're really weak because of the heat.

Uh and you're out here doing um field labor, which is really similar to plantation work. Any old plantation movie that you might have seen, that's what this kind of work looked like. People used to cut their tendons so as to not go out to work in the fields.

I got taken from a nice AC job working in a hospital to the fields because I would not falsify documentation showing backing up their their allegations. They're beating up some dude, right? Yeah.

And they'll do that all the time for much minor stuff. I was put in the fields for a lot of stuff. I got put in the fuse because I mouthd off at the guard one time cuz I stepped on the yellow line in the hallway.

So they went ahead and put me back in the field. Do you guys have any rights as a prisoner? If a cop rolls up right now Yeah.

and tells you to get down on the ground, I mean, what rights do you have? You do it to get shot. And this is Bianca Tile, a Harvard educated leading expert in the prison industry and founder of the nonprofit Worth Rises, working to dismantle the prison industry and the exploitation of those it touches.

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Prison is already the punishment. Slavery should never be a punishment. And are people picking cotton?

Are they fighting fires? Crazy work. And so like I'm just thinking about the things that are like sometimes here in New York, but um all over the country, we have people in all types of jobs.

Farm or agriculture is a massive um area of of uh prison work. In fact, there's some really um crazy reporting right now about sheriffs that are using incarcerated people on their own properties. Yeah.

Using the people in his jail to like man his own farm. What? So, we would work um anywhere from 6 to 8 hours a day.

Um I think they've cut that down to half days now. It was a long day doing very manual labor. uh doing things like picking potatoes, picking corn, cutting grass with a with a hoe.

So, who was your equivalent of the master? The the prison warden. Who did you serve?

Yeah, we served the field boss. We even called him boss. Very culturally similar to plantation days.

And you had two lead hoes. Um and we would be at the front of the line and we would be keeping things organized. We would be keeping the ladies on task.

Um and quite frankly sometimes even participating in degrading them. I spent 27 years in prison. Uh total I got 100 bucks I think because Texas 27 years you earn $100.

No they doesn't pay. Texas has maybe a few hundred people out of the 20 140,000 who work in maybe in Lockhart. They got a couple of private firms that do lease do pay individuals for working.

But if there's 140,000 people, there's 139,000 800 whatever thousand that No, don't get a penny. I see. No, I I never got a penny.

I worked 13 years in the fields. I worked as a library clerk, clerk in the uh in the law library. I worked as a kitchen commissary clerk.

I washed pots and pans for 3 months cuz they got mad at me cuz I wrote a grievance. It was kind of effective. So, they transferred me jobs from my job as a library into the kitchen.

Uh none of them did I ever get paid. Were you obligated to work those jobs? Do you have to work in prison like you did?

If there is a job that needs to be done in Texas, they will find somebody to do it regardless of their qualifications, give you an order to do it. And if you don't do it for whatever reason, you will get disciplined. You will lose custody in class.

You will end up in solitary and you may end up with more time. Now, having said that, of course, I wanted to work. I don't want to sit around my damn ass all the damn time, but I want to do something that's fulfilling, not necessarily spiritually, right?

But something that I learned something from. And I think that's most prisoners want that. 32 degrees or below, we're not working in the fields.

Anything below freezing. Exactly. So, we're at the back gate and we can hear the officer's radios and they do these every hour temperature checks on the radio and we're at the back gate lined up cold as hell, ready to go to work.

No issued thermals. I mean, just in these stateisssued clothes that are thin, the air is hitting our skin. And um we hear on the radio that it's 31° and we started cheering like we were really excited to go back in.

And I remember the boss, the lieutenant, he looked over at the other boss and said, "I didn't hear anything. Did you? " And they rolled that gate and we came on out here and we were picking cabbage.

It was frozen and it had been raining. So, our boots and bottom of our legs were wet, our socks were wet. They issue these little cotton gloves in the mud.

They're not going to stay on your hand. You finally just have to put the gloves down. And we're just picking cabbage, which the people around me, their lips are blue, snots running down our faces and frozen.

And I remember feeling ice on my eyelashes. Um, and thinking they really don't give a about us. You brought up tampons and so I need to say working in the field is absolutely insane.

Um, when you're on your menstrual cycle, there's no restroom. They have a portaotty that they carry on a tra on a trailer and tractor pulls it. comes around once every 4 hours.

Not everybody gets to use it. So, I might be on a squad with 35 other women. They'll say, "Duce it up.

Restroom break. " We all line up. The trailer's there.

I would remember like waving my tampon in the air because you're trying to show the boss like, "I need to go. Like, this is important for me to go because they're only going to pick five or six. " But is the 13th amendment that allows for the enslavement of criminals in violation of the eth amendment that protects Americans against cruel or unusual punishments?

The 13th Amendment ended slavery, right? However, there's a clause in there that says except for someone who's been duly convicted, if you have been convicted in the United States of America, according to the 13th Amendment, you can still be enslaved. So, a lot of people don't realize that.

That's the silver lining of the 13th Amendment. Right. Right.

A lot of people don't realize that. And it was very likely a result of backroom bargaining between large corporations who has vested interest. Hold on.

Back in back in the day, it was Abraham Lincoln. They wanted the southern states on board, right? And but what happened was is now the these black people who we freed now we're going to get them all on the street and we're going to pass black codes and we're going to arrest them and we're going to so police them harder and then we can reincarcerate them and reincarcerate them and use their labor now but now we're not slaves now they're prisoners Bianca 1865 does Lincoln free the slaves yes and no there were certainly millions of people that were freed during that time but unfortunately what happened at that time was also that the institution ution of slavery moved behind prison walls.

There's quite a few organization out there that go to prison and say, "Hey, we'll hire some of your people and we'll pay them a dollar an hour or whatever, right? And then they'll go out and sell those goods for whatever they sell them out in the free world, right? And and then here's the rub.

Once I leave prison, Whole Foods won't employ me. " Why won't they employ you? Because they have uh restrictions against people who've been incarcerated.

They're working for us. They'll hire you when you're in prison, but you're you're no longer viable once you're free. Exactly.

So the average wage for somebody who's incarcerated, right, is 14 cents an hour. And in seven states, it's actually nothing. Majority of states do pay something, but we're talking about pennies.

People will work for two straight weeks and their checks will be 30 bucks. Okay? Right?

And with that, they are expected to support themselves in prison. There's a really, really big common misconception, right? That prison is a free ride.

Far from it. The cost of communication, the cost of commissary, of food, of hygiene products, of medical co-pays, these are all things that people in prison actually pay. In prison, they've recently introduced emails and people have to buy stamps to send an email.

As if this is like a physical, you know, piece of mail that's going like UPS, USPS, right? Like we are talking about an email at 50 cents an email. Is it slavery if they compensate you?

And if they compensate you, is there a certain amount that qualifies it as I guess this is some form of employment by the state? What is slavery in your opinion in the context of imprisonment? Uh slavery means that you are coerced daily into eating when they tell you to eat, working where they tell you to work, behaving in a way that is conducive to furthering the aims of the institution.

And if you don't do those things, they can have you beaten. They can have your good time taken away. They can have you thrown in solitary.

Is there an argument that you're working to pay the cost of what the taxpayer is paying to keep you in prison after you've committed, let's say, a heinous crime? Is that a reasonable argument or do you say hell no? It's not unreasonable.

If I'm a taxpayer and you commit a heinous crime, my first thing is I don't want you to do it again. Yeah. And I want to ensure that person who you committed it on if it was violent heals or is a system that I have if they going to make you work then okay.

but I want you to work or something or I want you treated in a way that allows you to address whatever trauma or anger whatever you had so that you don't hurt anybody else when I was raped even now 40 years later I have visions of doing some really ugly to these dudes I understand punishment I understand the need for revenge the desire for revenge but that's not going to help me heal American prisons designed in such a way to rehabilitate criminals or is it simply a system to punish offenders traumatizing them further and increasing the likelihood of them reaffending after they're released. But real quick, I'd be like, "Go on down the road, you fuck. " If you want to support our boots on the ground independent journalism that is not bought and paid for by corporate interests, along with exclusive DLC content that YouTube won't let me upload and uncensored early access to all my videos before they go up on YouTube.

Go subscribe at patreon. com/tylera for less than five bucks a month. Is internal assault and sexual assault common?

The threat in a female prison for sexual violence is from staff, not from each other. Different dynamic there. I I think 100%.

We had to be wary of who was working. We had to pay attention if we knew the officers that would creep around the shower area or come around at night and you knew who not to get into a private nook with or um not to make eye contact with. the prison rape elimination act that's supposed to offer um protection I guess for incar prison rape elimination act.

Yes. So it must be common enough to where they had to implement an act. Yeah.

Absolutely. Very common. Day one you're fighting people multiple times.

How does it evolve? You get some respect eventually or is it just fighting non-stop until you build an alliance with someone? The violence is usually early on and it's again to see what you're going to do whether you're weak, whether you're going to be a victim.

They're measuring you up. If you get with a gang or with a click or with whatever, right, then it may be a little different because at that point the gangs may be called out as a group to do some stuff, right? I would fight.

I would jump on dudes for looking at me wrong. What you looking at? Did you ever end up in solitary confinement?

I'm a disruptor out here and I was a disruptor in there and I ended up in solitary confinement lots of time. Uh the first time I went to solitary was for hugging. There was a lady that was crying over her male.

She was sitting in the floor and I kind of bent down and hugged the top of her shoulders. Uh and they saw it on camera. They came and got me.

It was like the SWAT team coming in. Yeah. Handcuffed me, marched me to solitary.

I was there for two months. Two months. You were in solitary.

Yeah. So, that's enough time to have permanent psychological damage, I'm sure. Right.

Yeah. Absolut absolutely. It was wild in there.

Nothing to do but like read graffiti on the wall. Um, which is And those cells were hugely disgustingly dirty. Sometimes you would see blood or even feces like on the walls.

Solitary confinement. It's very commonly referred to in the p prison system by people who have done time as the hole or the box. Those terms date back to antibbellum slavery.

Oh, interesting. Okay. The hole was a literal hole that enslaved people were put in if they disobeyed the rules of their enslaver.

Got it. Right. No food, darkness, heat.

Similarly, the hot box was the same thing. Was a box. These are the terms that then migrated into the system and many don't even know are related to antibiot slavery.

The field work you guys are doing loses money but it still happens. Is the goal just to break your spirit and your will and when you leave prison to feel like a piece of What is the goal? Texas is a really punitive state and I think that this idea that if we just make it as miserable as possible um people won't come back.

Um but the fact does it work? Oh, it absolutely does not work. Right.

Because uh people are here because they have done something um that probably, especially women, resulted of trauma and they have to work through that and heal uh or they're going to get out and still not know how to handle their emotions and handle what they've been through and still go back to their same old ways and they end up back to prison. And our recidivism rates show that. Do you think 10 years helped you more than one year or two years or 5 years in prison would have helped you understand you did a bad thing and you need to stop doing that or I think that after about 12 months inside I really emerged myself into the prison life.

After a year any thoughts of good things were gone. So no, I think that it doesn't matter. I think that you humans are going to survive where they're at.

They're going to change to be able to survive. I was the worst version of myself while I was incarcerated. The American prison system is set up to humiliate, degrade, punish, and minimize.

Uh the American prison system is full of individuals who are in fact used as free labor for corporations, for companies, for the state. The Texas prison system, as an example, they have 140,000 people there. The guards turn the keys, hand out the mail, count, maybe drive the buses.

Everything else is done by incarcerated individuals, right? The prisoners run the prison. Yeah.

Again, we're sitting in the city of New York. It costs us over $500,000 a year to incarcerate one person on Riker's Island. 500K.

Do you know what we could do with 500K? Do they want you to end back up in the prison system? Do they want you to live a happy, fruitful, bountiful life after prison is the goal to set you up for success afterwards?

I think that may be the ideal. Well, I don't think that there is a huge universe of individuals who are plotting to ensure that individuals have been incarcerated go back to their cage. I don't think that exists.

But politicians have done a good job at demonizing anyone who gets in a cage in the first place. Right? They cannot be trusted around your kids.

Most prisons you go to now TDCJ have maybe one psychologist if that. They don't have psychology. I see none.

If you've been in an environment where you've been degraded and dehumanized for 10, 12, 14 years and you get out now you're expected just to walk on society. You feel useless. you feel worthless.

U you got 20 25 30% of the people who are in jails and prisons have severe mental health issues. It's not helped by being in jail. Which means that I don't believe that putting someone in a cage, a literal cage where they're subject to rape or to kill each other without access to meaningful health with incredibly deficient uh way to meet your whatever nutritional needs, all that.

In other words, deprivation. I don't think that helps. Torture, all that.

I don't think none of that helps. If if what you want to do is subject them to the most violent brutality you want, then say it. And don't say that what you want is people to be chained and rehabilitated.

Me, as someone who put a pistol to somebody's head, how do you appeal to someone who who maybe doesn't even care about these people, but wants a better system, better functioning society, how would you redesign the prison system? Well, I'm not sure I would redesign the prison system. I think this this system that we have has no redeeming qualities.

Zero. Zero. And I think we need to like re-imagine entirely how we want to um address harm in our communities.

What are some immediate changes you would make to the prison system? We're suing for air conditioning. So that's a big one is stop cooking people alive.

People are dying every summer. Texas A&M did a report that showed some sales at 140° in the summer. And I've seen people die from the heat and I've seen officers fall out from the heat.

So that's probably like the immediate thing. They need to live a dignified life, where inequity is crushed. Sure.

Where um people feel fulfilled, purpose driven, and loved, feel connected to the communities and the land that they're on. And that then together in a connected world, we can cure a I am less likely to cause you harm because I have everything I need and because I'm connected to you as a person. But should I ever cause you harm?

that we have the tools between us and in a system to address that harm in a way that doesn't cause or reproduce more harm because this is this system is not producing safety. If incarceration produced safety, then the US should be the safest place on the planet. To me, it's like all these root causes, right?

And one of them is addressing the exception in the 13th amendment. At what point do you stop getting second chances? I don't think any human, I don't care what you do, deserves to be enslaved.

I don't care what you did. So you are anti-slavery regardless of the the worst crimes possible you could commit. Yes.

But I also want to say some of these people who because of things that decisions they made at a very high level way distance from the tens of thousands of people who may get killed or poisoned right because of some of the stuff that they do don't get char. I would say that's more heinous than someone who gets out and kills maybe a group of five. Yeah.

Poisoning the food, poisoning the water, destroying the environment. None of them ever went to jail. None of them ever went to prison.

Should they have in my view? No. I don't think anybody should be to prison.

No one should be sent to prison. No one. I'm an abolitionist.

No. What should they do? I'm not saying I don't believe in some sort of separation for some folks.

A lot of times it takes resources and it takes time and it takes a willingness to fail. And I understand that that given a an infinite supply uh and an infinite maybe a watch maybe sort of regulation on the movement. I don't know.

So I have to come down on the side of some sort of separation that is not punitive in nature. You need to find a way to allow individuals who are leaving prison to have kind of a ceremony of return and say you have quote unquote paid your debt to society. Go on there, sign up and say that you do not believe that we should enslave anybody.

Jorge, you're the man. Dude, thank you so much for your time. You can hit me up on my linkree.

It's uh www. mmarcymarie. com.

First thing is obviously follow us on all the social platforms. Worth Rises on the different platforms as well as end the exception on Instagram. You can also visit us on our website at worthrises.

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You support whatever you want to support, but full disclosure, I do endorse the enslavement and murder of certain heinous criminals. I do not believe that every criminal can or wants to be rehabilitated into society. Some people are simply menaces to society.

But largely, if we zoomed out and created a more rehabilitative prison system rather than one focused on punishment, I think the criminals that leave prison will go on to commit less crimes and fit into society Eder.