[Laughter] I was thinking a lot the other week about this idea of when you get a new IDE know I had a very complicated deadline and there is this kind of schizophrenic moment where you think no it's impossible you will not get another I we we can't I can't there is nothing here but then of course there is some there is always something you know sometimes is better sometime they not but it's not it's not producing a vacuum no that's I thing what is important it's produced with by all the knowledge you have from before
the things you've seen the things you read the people around you your call like you know like the discussions you have and the no so I think that's the way things are produced ideas are made no and sometimes it is very like it comes from nothing no of course I should do this no it's like completely logical but sometimes things can be very slow and take long time then it's a question of process you have to kind of trust the process and kind of especially also have to trust the what some what a material can
do and not force it to something that you want to do it I think that's a way of move like a form of movement to see what a material want to do and to follow it I would say you know I could look at object objects objects also carry history carries narration carries polic itics in so many ways no so I think so for me that was been a strategy to okay these objects contains these forms of politics or these forms of history and therefore they're already charged with something I don't have to H change
them there is one part of the research which is yeah as most people that make reaches you read and then you write emails know like you have this strange IDE and then you have to force convince people to trust you one example is for when I managed when I when I got all the broken lights and neon tubes from the parag museum in Berlin no and I went to the museum once to look at exhibitions and and we saw you could see that the lamps were broken and for me yeah that that was like this
you know it was already there the pamon is part of this European big ioral museums that were constructed in a moment where forms of like National states were produced no and for that they needed to have two things one to be to be seen them as themselves as a center point no as a power but also they needed to have some other that they could you know in a way they could be distant from and they could also show that we were Superior no we could start to collect them no so so many of of
these museums has similar history know and the peragon of course is classic man you go there there like the isar port which doesn't belong to Germany and but we know that the last years there been a lot of discussion about reiations no and and why are these things are here so for me like yeah when I found out that all these lams were broken and were dirty and then I would spend a lot of time trying to convince the museum to give them them they contain all this story they're like this also they also contain
um this EUR this European crisis this fragility you know they're already Dusty dirty they don't work anymore they're broken so in a way they also contained that now this idea of Europe and the pagam as a place of power and collection it is already by itself already broken and you don't have to mark it because you see it in the lamps that's why I mean that I when I when I when we got all the lamps I felt that I didn't need to write saying like like okay to make a form of documentary about the
Paramon or like to include that in the in the work because I felt like but the lamps already carries that history you know you see the broken light you see that it's also a collection so it also mirrors the idea that par pagam is a collection I just collect something different when when you work with this kind of operational like this this kind of conceptual strategies no there's always this question of what is included in the work when you see it what is not included where is the information no and I think I think but
I think for me what I try to do many times is like I think that I try to give like within using the title and also the technical label no as a kind of as a as a indicator for what it work is both give them like form of poetic openness but at the same time giv him like a very precise technical description so you can kind of get so you can get so you get some kind of feeling okay what is it that's been going on [Music] here and then I think it depends a
lot this is like a solo show is is a group show like how much like what kind of is it a public space is like a gallery like I think the the the the production of information around the work I think is very for me at least it depends a lot on where the work is made for no but as but at the same time I have to also say I think for me there is also two important parameters is like one is like you have to trust your audience you have an audience you have
many different kind of audience but the audience they're usually very interested and they also can think of things that you haven't think thought about before so you have to give give them that that space But but at the same time you you can also have uh you can also challenge your own and you can also expect them to work in some way no if you made a work they should invest time in it last year I made an exhibition and it was titled the persistent action of a falling tear and the starting point of that
exhibition was Picasso gik the famous painting that Picasso painted in 1937 that now is installed in Raina Sophia in Madrid which is this iconic painting of of the crimes of the war that when the German bombed the city of The Basque city of ganika but the painting also is a symbol of war no and the horrors of what it is no there is an accepted copy of the gika in the UN building no that Picasso proved uh and it's so it's so strong in some sense know that when uh United States enter Iraq in the
war and when Colin Powell went out to talk about okay we want to invade right they covered it so I think it's a beautiful analogy of of gika but then I read that um that when Picasso made garika he was was very stressed uh because he painted in black and white and in those times you didn't paint in black and white oil painting was in color and prints like graphic prints was you know like was so he was very stressed that he was making a mistake so he asked Damar the photographer and man it's also
in her Studio that gik was painted no and then a Spanish writing called Jose bamin and Jose bamin was also one of the commissioners of gik so there's this story about they came to the studio and they they put up like you know like this kind of yeah like transparent papers in colors on top of gika to see if it was better I'm not sure if this is true or not no that's that's a narrative but it's been written in some places but then in within this story it said that Picasso cut out a red
a piece of red paper in the ch shape of a tear like a red tear no and gave it to bergamin I said this is the symbol of our people's suffering like Spain gik so you have to put this you have to put this red tear on the painting with a needle every time the work is exhibit if this is true and he will have done it of course the the idea ofan will be completely different now it's like a performative piece uh so that that that was the story that I found out and then
bergamin is forced to Exile because he was very a very public person in Spain and against Franco so he left he flee to Mexico and then he the teer disappears it's lost so then for this exhibition I with the help of a colleague produce a machine like a mechanical machine like where like had a red paper it had a motor so it slowly slowly moved within the space constantly and then once an hour we made a like a punch that made a off a teer so it it moved and clack clack and it cut and
it cut out a tier and then the tear fell on the floor the paper still kept the other side the non tier no so then suddenly you have like the they had the the non tier in the paper and the actual tier on the floor no there's so many other conflicts you know and this idea of this constant repetition that you can have tears produced for in some way you know it has something also about the idea of how a historical work can suddenly be activated again no so the work includes this this potential history
of gik not potential history of how art history could be different in some way you know but at the same time also thinking yeah that that there there is this constant yeah there's this constant Productions of Tears no I don't know why I was doing research on tears not so sure about why but that that was the starting point and I think it also shows a bit how sometimes how organic I disc come how organic research is no I think sometimes you of course you know and you do okay it's about this but sometime it
is this kind of organic you know you read something and then then you take a walk and then you come back and somebody a friend tells you yeah but have you checked that that's also a way of research it works like that also [Music]
