The Charge of the Light Brigade | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too, just cracking us up.

And this is Stuff You Should Dope. >> That's right. Kind of a a rare detailed war battle episode.

>> Yeah, we don't do a lot of war stuff. Yeah. Little bit here and there.

>> A little here or there. Yeah. But usually it's like some crazy commando story like u right >> you know and usually where the Nazis are getting beat up because we love that narrative.

>> Yeah. We usually don't like say hey let's let's dive into some specific battles of the Crimean War. >> Right.

But uh for all of you fans of the Crimean War who didn't look at the title you're like oh I know what this one's about. Of course it's about the charge of the light brigade. And if you were a an English student, sorry, an English student and you studied poetry, um you're probably familiar with the poem, The Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred K, Lord Tennyson.

I think you're supposed to say the comma out loud from what I understand. >> Yeah, like the colon. >> But that was a real deal.

That that really happened. Um and it's a really complicated, complex story. Um that's also extremely fascinating and totally nuts at the end.

>> Yeah. Uh so I guess we should probably set up a little bit about just what the Crimean War was. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So the Crimean War was over the course of a few years from 1853 to 56. Uh it was in Europe um fought between Russia and Britain, France and Turkey which was part of the Ottoman Empire.

Turkey was that is >> and it was known for a lot of things. There were some, you know, interesting people that came out of this, ended up being super famous, uh, and some a lot of lives lost, but notably, uh, most of the half a million lives lost, uh, like maybe as many as 75% died from disease and things like that instead of on the battlefield. >> Yeah.

Which is terrible. Um, that was a reason that two now famous women showed up to help. One was Florence Nightingale um who's very well known as the lady with the lamp.

She showed up and started using like um evidence-based treatments and apparently the mortality rate at these horrible field hospitals went from 41% when she showed up down to 2% at the end of the war. It's pretty impressive. And then there's a less um well-known woman named Mary Secole who was born in Jamaica.

She was mixed race. Um, and she appealed to be sent to the Crimean front like Florence Nightingale was was turned down. So, she went herself and showed up and and made huge um huge gains in saving lives there as well.

>> Yeah. And it was the first uh big war covered by the press. Uh notably, Toltoy got his start there.

>> Uh you know, writing about the you know, dispatches from the front basically, >> right? Uh it's also weirdly where the the balaclava comes from the you know the what we in America might call a ski mask >> or a scary mask >> or a scary mask or a catburgurglar mask >> it comes from here. So, lots of sort of little weird things and obviously like you mentioned the charge of the light brigade, the very famous poem, >> right?

>> Uh but the whole thing started over a religious argument basically in the Ottoman Empire wherein for several years the French Catholics were battling it out with the Russian Orthodox Church over who controlled the holy sites, the Christian holy sites within the Ottoman Empire, which really ticked off Zar Nicholas I. >> Yeah. Um, so he also we should say the Ottoman Empire was very powerful for a while, but we're joining them at the at the twilight, maybe even the end of their empire, which I think broke up in World War I.

This is about 60 years before that. Um, so the the Ottoman Empire was not in a very good position to defend itself against Zar Nicholas I, who's like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I'm going to invade part of your Ottoman Empire.

I'm going to invade what's in modern-day Romania. Uh, Mulavia and Wakia, which is where Drcula is from. And he invaded uh, and again the Ottoman Empire.

I think they were known as the sick man of Europe. There was not a lot they can do about it. So France and Britain came to their aid and not for any necessarily altruistic reason but because they were not happy with the idea of Russian expanding itself into Europe and in particular be be getting a foothold in the Mediterranean and when they set up shop in Wakia and Mulavia they were on the Danube which would take them straight to the Mediterranean.

So France and Britain became concerned and they're like we'll back you up Ottoman Empire. Yeah, it's boy, the more things change, the more they say the same, huh? >> Yeah, it's true, man.

>> It's crazy when you see this stuff that happened back in the 1850s and uh you can draw sort of a straight line to things that happen today in Russian expansion. It's just it's really interesting stuff. >> Yeah.

>> Uh but um all that to say is that what is now, like you said, modern day Romania, he now occupied. Uh France and Britain got their hackles up. They sent warships to the Black Sea in 1853, declared war on Russia in 1854.

And the first big, you know, this could have ended it all. The first big major defeat uh against that English and French alliance was uh at Odessa there in the Black Sea. And Zar Nicholas withdrew uh basically that land he had occupied.

He pulled back out in July of 1854. And that could have been the end of it. But the Frenchies and the Brits said, "You know what?

Now we want to punish them for their aggression, so we're going to go on the offensive. " And that turned out to be a bit of a boondoggle. >> It did.

Um nations do that kind of thing, though, when especially when they soundly defeat an expansionist nation, they they often want to make an example, be like, "Don't try that again. " This is not like completely out of left field, but yeah, the way it turned out was not great. and they chose to um invade Russia um by landing on the Crimean Peninsula.

And they chose Crimea for a couple of reasons. One, uh it's where um Russia's naval ships were stationed that they would use to to take over the Mediterranean if they could get a foothold there. And then two, they couldn't make it to um mainland Russia because Germany was neutral at the time.

They were the Austrussian um I guess kingdom. They're like, "You can't send your troops through here to get to Russia. " They're like, "Okay, we'll go attack Crimea.

" And then there was one other thing about Crimea, Chuck. It it offered a way to attack navally, which is what the Brits favored, and it also offered at the same time a way to attack on land, which is what the French uh preferred. And so, >> surf and turf.

>> The Exactly. It was the surf and turf strategy. And uh yeah, the Crimean Peninsula um served all of those purposes.

>> Yeah. which was mainland Ukraine, uh, by the way. So, I guess the first battle or oh, not the first battle.

I guess this would be the second battle we're talking about. >> Uh, and the one that really sets up the story of the Charge of the Light Brigade is the siege of, you know, in California there's a town called Sebastapole with a B. >> Yeah.

My aunt lives there. >> In Sebastaple. >> Mhm.

>> It's quite nice. >> It is >> lovely wooded Northern California. >> Yes.

>> I've been there myself. >> Okay. >> Uh, but this is with a V.

And I don't know if it's probably not pronounced sevestipole. It's probably Sebastto would be my guess. >> Oh, you know what?

I've never heard anybody say it like that, but I'll bet you're right. >> I'll bet a bunch of Ukrainians just stood up and went, "Yeah, >> I wonder if there was any connection there, too. I was going to look that up.

" >> Surely one heck of a coincidence. >> I agree. >> Somebody just put a bunch of letters together.

They're like, "Sastapole. " Uh, also the name of a good solo album by Jay Ferrar of Uncle Tuplo and Sunbolt is Sebastaple. >> Nice.

With a B or a V. >> With a B. >> Okay.

Wait, did you say B or V? Because they rhyme. >> B as in boy.

Do we need to get back to the topic at hand? >> V is in voy. >> All right, it's September 1854.

We've got a little over 60,000 troops total uh from this alliance. 30,000 from the uh French, about 26,000 British troops, and about 4,500 Turks. They land on the coast of Crimea and start to hike inland uh for the turf section 30 miles in.

And that port city of uh Sebast is where they're headed. >> Yeah. Um so that's I think that's where the Russians had their their um that navy that they would invade the Mediterranean with.

And the Russian commander was a guy named Prince Alexander Sergeovich Menchikov. >> Great name. Russians have great names, >> right?

There was, I think, an initial skirmish after they landed uh at Calamita Bay. Um but it didn't really count as the first battle. The first battle was the Battle of the Alma River and that's where um Menchikov decided like, okay, this is where we're going to start to take on this alliance force.

And um they it was a pretty serious battle. I think both sides lost many thousands of men. Uh but the um the Brits and the French were not turned back.

The Russians retreated instead. >> That's right. Uh and this is when a really interesting decision comes about.

Uh they were worried that there were more Russian armies coming in to that, you know, port city to help defend their navy, I guess. And so they said, "All right, here's what we're going to do. we're we're going to do the old hook and ladder and we're going to take a wide path around the city so we can attack from the south.

Uh what they didn't know was that at that time uh it was very poorly defended there. So if they would have >> if they would have just kept charging forward, it probably would have been over pretty quickly, right? >> But since they took the long way around, which they thought was a decent strategy, that gave the Russians the chance to refortify basically and stock up with men and supplies.

>> Yeah. And they couldn't have known that that um that the city wasn't very well defended, but everybody had fled and apparently they sunk a bunch of ships in the harbor to keep the British Navy from being able to land there. >> Yeah.

But isn't part of war uh trying to know that stuff? >> Yes. And ironically, you would use the light brigade for that kind of stuff to scout and spy and report back.

>> Okay. So when you said they couldn't have known, what you really meant was they didn't know because they didn't do it good. >> That's Yes.

Yes. Okay. You're right.

>> So for the siege of Sevistoyl, not just the Russians uh set up and refortified the city. The British um basically regrouped and they settled at a um a port town called Balaclava and it's about 10 miles south of Sevastapole. And like you said, that's where the uh headgear comes from or the name of it because it actually doesn't just come from that town.

It comes from this actual battle that happened there. So there's a road between Balaclava and Sevastapole and they are um because they're connected, both sides need that for supplies, right? >> Yeah.

So, it's a really strategically important road and the before the Brits could try to take the road or secure it, the Russians decided to and they made a really risky move. They took some of their troops who were battling because by this time the Brits and the the French were now laying siege to Sevastapole. Um and the Russians were fighting them off and they the Russians took some of their troops and moved them around the siegers and put them squarely between the alliance forces sieging Sevastapole and the alliance forces at Balaclava on the road to try to take the road.

It was a risky move, but it was also what they had to do to um kind of cut the Brits off the sieging Brits off from supplies 10 miles south of Balaclava. >> That's right. So, uh they attack these um artillery positions of the Allies on the hills outside of Balaclava.

>> Uh it turned into a pretty pretty chaotic battle scene there. And the Russians did pretty good at first. uh they they had a lot of cavalry.

Uh they had a pretty substantial infantry there and they cap uh they captured these gun positions, these Turkish and British gun positions on that hilltop. And this is a place called Causeway Heights. Uh they tried next to take another town called uh Katakoy and that was basically the last the last stop before you got to Balaclava.

>> Um but this is where the Scots come in. the the legendary 93rd Southerntherland Highlanders wearing kilts with swords and rifles >> and no underwear. >> Yeah.

I mean, that's the most, you know, intimidating part of all of this. >> Sure. >> Uh they were led by Major General Sir Colin Campbell, and he had a pretty good idea to defeat these guys, and it worked.

>> Yeah. Normally, the Highlanders would form a square of four rows, right? And you're able to defend your flank a lot easier.

there's less men exposed. Instead, Campbell said, "We're going to form two lines. " And they were like, "This is mind-blowing.

" So, there were more men exposed, but they were able to shoot further across, right? >> Yeah. >> Just more bullets, basically.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And it turned out that the um the Highlanders were successful in attacking the Russian cavalry or I'm sorry, the Highlanders were standing the ground to defend um Katakoy and it was the Russian cavalry that was rushing at them.

The Highlanders fired on them. There was a volley of um musket or bullets I guess and the Russians were like, "Oh no. " and they turned left.

And when they turned left, they exposed their flank and the Highlanders fired again and really just messed the uh Russian cavalry up and just caused disarray and they had to retreat. So, it was a really good stand. So much so that like these guys, like you said, they're legendary now in part because of this battle.

I And I guess I should probably say I think I'm am I saying cavalry? Calvary. >> I think you're probably accidentally saying Calvary, which I I do all the time, too.

But that's that's where Jesus was crucified. Right. >> Right.

So cavalry is the horseback >> troops. >> They should really have named those things. Two completely different sounding words.

>> Yes. Exactly. >> It's very confusing.

And the only reason I even know is because there's a lot of old uh hymns, church hymns that I sang that that you sing about Calvary. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I know all about that. >> Yeah. Did you sing uh hymns?

>> Uh not about Calvary. The Catholics don't um pay attention to that for some reason. >> Yeah.

I just didn't know how much uh Catholics sang in church. >> Oh, dude. I I don't even know if you can call it singing unless it's kind of like a reformist 70s hippie church.

It's chanting. >> Okay. >> And it scares the Jesus out of non-atholics who like go with a friend to a Catholic mass.

It freaks people out. >> I got you. Because in Baptist churches it was just the big bombastic uh sort of you know himnil songs.

>> Sure. Sure. >> Yeah.

Maybe maybe more fun. But I don't know >> then chanting. >> Yeah.

But I never chanted. >> Well, you should try it sometime. >> All right.

I'll give it I'll give it a shot. Uh where did we leave that? The Scots the Highlanders won.

And did you did you say that that's where we got the term the thin red line? >> No. No, I didn't mention that.

>> Yeah. So, you know, we talked about this being one of the first major wars where there was um journalism going on and there was a guy named William Howard Russell. Uh was he Irish, I think.

>> Yeah, he was a Irish correspondent. >> Yeah. So he was writing from the front lines and in the times he described the line of men that you know those two lines of men in their brick red coats as the uh thin a thin red streak tipped with steel and that eventually morphed into the thin red line which is uh another weird sort of thing that came out of this war.

>> Yeah. And another really hardcore war movie too. >> Good one.

>> Or no I'm thinking of Big Red One. >> No, no, no. The Thin Red Line was Terence Malik.

They're they're both war movies. >> Okay. But I was thinking of the Is it Big Red One?

>> Yeah, that was uh that was good, too. Mark Hamill and and the guy from Revenge of the Nerds. >> Yeah, I think Mark Hamill gets his testicles blown off by a grenade.

>> Somebody does. Uh I think I said before that was the first R-rated movie I saw in a theater. And uh yeah, was it Mark Hamill's testicles?

>> I believe it was, but I I could just be making that part up. >> I got you. >> Hey, so one more thing before we go to break because I can sense that coming on.

Um, this is the this is the first war as far as I know where some soldiers wives traveled with them >> to the front and basically like set up a household there. >> It was a very bizarre setup and they were very unhappy there >> uh because it was not a fun place to be. Yeah.

>> Um but they were there to support their husbands. A lot of them were. >> Wow, man.

Crimean war. Who knew? >> Yeah.

>> All right. Well, we'll be right back, right? >> Yes.

All right. Learning stuff with Joshua. >> All right.

So, I feel like we've kind of been dancing around this whole light brigade thing. And for a long time, until I started researching this um for this episode, I just assumed light as in like a bright light or something like that. >> Oh, interesting.

Okay. >> It makes way more sense now that what you're talking about is a light brigade, right? >> Like weight weight wise sort of.

>> Yeah. Rather than as opposed to a heavy brigade. both of which are part of the cavalry that the Brits and the French used at the time.

>> Yeah. And when I said weightwise, uh, I meant, you know, lighter horses, faster horses, presumably lighter men on those horses. Uh, I imagine it was just a bunch of, um, people that were fleet of foot and horses that were fleet of hoof.

Uh their job, if you were a light brigade, was to ride very quickly across the battlefield to to move places with great speed, sometimes to deliver battle orders with great speed. >> Uh the heavy brigade is exactly what you would think, bigger horses, bigger men, um close combat, breaking through enemy lines, kind of kicking butt and taking names. >> Yeah.

And so like when the heavy brigade broke up the enemy line, as like the enemy was retreating, you'd send in the light brigade who would chase the enemy down and slash them with their swords and stuff, right? >> Yeah. They probably had better hair in the light brigade.

>> They probably did. >> You know, like the handsome like, "All right, now all the rough stuff's done. Get us in here.

" Our little fleet horses >> with their um Hapsburg chins. >> Oh, totally. So the there was in addition to the charge of the light brigade at this.

So we're at the battle of Balaclava still. This is where all of this happens, right? Remember that the Highlanders already turned back the Russian cavalry once.

Now the heavy brigade uh is actually sent in. Their uh charge of the heavy heavy brigade um came before the charge of the light brigade. >> And uh I think it was um pretty effective when they when they um hit up the Russians.

I think there were 800 horsemen in the heavy brigade running into 3,000 Russians in the Russian line. >> Yeah, but it's the heavy brigade. So, they did a lot of damage.

Uh the Russian uh cavalry, now it's in my head. Uh they kind of scrambled to get out of there. And here's where we get to a point where there's a sort of a a fateful confusing order that brings us to the actual uh light brigade story.

Uh and we're gonna introduce some some people here. Uh none of whom seem to very be very competent. Yeah.

>> At waring. Um so basically people like you and I would have been. >> Yeah.

Imagine if we were rich and said I want to be a lieutenant. I'm going to pay to be a lieutenant in the army and command soldiers. >> That's a that was a thing.

>> That's exactly what these men had done with the exception of Lord Raglin. He had battle experience. He had um fought Napoleon at Waterlue.

He lost an arm in that battle. So he was a war hero, but he was 25 when that happened. And by this time he was 65.

>> Yeah. >> A little dotty maybe. Um he apparently remember there was a French English alliance that was battling the Russians.

But when he would refer to the French, say strategically they were talking about what the French were doing, he'd refer to them as the enemy. >> So that was very confusing. And this battle, the battle of Balaclava was the first time that he had ever led like commanded men in battle.

Yeah. Up to that point he'd been subordinate. This was the first time he was the one calling the shots for the battle.

So he had the most experience and this was the first time he was doing that. >> Yeah, for sure. So he gets uh up on this high about a 600 foot high uh ridge.

So he's got a great view of the battlefield. Um, the guys down there don't have any kind of view at all. So, the orders are going to be getting maybe a little bit confusing because they can't really see what's going on like Raglin can.

>> Uh, he's also pretty far away. So, it takes 20 minutes to get even with the the light horse brigade. Yeah.

>> Or the light runner, >> who we'll meet in a minute, too, >> who hates everybody that's involved here, as it turns out. It takes him about 20 minutes to get there and deliver an order and you know presumably a little bit of time to sort of sus that out and then another 20 minutes to come back, right? >> So it's probably like 40 minutes to an hour for this whole exchange of information to take place.

And what Raglin is trying to do is trying to stop the enemy from taking away these heavy guns that they had captured at that Causeway Heights battle. Right? >> And so he sends the following order.

Lord Raglin wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front. Follow the enemy and try to prevent the enemy carrying away the guns. Troop horse artillery may accompany.

French cavalry is on your left. Immediate. >> Okay.

A little vague. >> That's that's the message. A little bit vague.

>> Yeah. So that's problem one. It's vague.

problem too is like you said Ragland's up 600 feet with a bird's eyee view of everything going on and the two men who received this order um the Earl of Lucan George Bingham and the Earl of Cardigan James Brudinel they are down in one of the valleys so they can't see these captured guns that that Raglin's talking about and when this man who you said hated everybody showed up Captain Lewis Nolan they're like wait what's what's going on what are you talking about. And before we get into that, we should probably talk a little bit about Bingham and Brudinell because we kind of disparaged them a little bit. I think we should explain why.

>> Yeah. I mean, you mentioned being able to pay for a position. Uh that's what both of these guys did.

They paid for this position of of leading these men. They were both wealthy gentlemen. Uh I believe um Brudinell, the Earl of Cardigan, was described at one point as brave, handsome, badtempered, and brainless.

Mhm. >> And these guys were brothersin-law who hated each other's guts. So Cardigan was a subordinate to Lucan and didn't like being under his command.

Uh and like you said, this guy Nolan didn't like either one of them. Uh he said, and these are quotes, he said, "We call Lucan the cautious ass and Lord Cardigan the dangerous ass, and Lord Cardigan has as much brains as his boot. " So no respect seemingly is happening for these for these dudes down there leading these charges.

>> No. Oh, and one other thing, the balaclava headgear came out of this battle. So did the cardigan sweater.

>> Now, I don't know whether or not this legit and you're 18 to believe. >> I totally get that. I totally get that.

This is one of those things where it's like, no, I'm joking. This is true. It's named after James Brudinell, the Earl of Cardigan.

I think the seventh Earl of Cardigan, >> cuz I almost looked that up, but I just ran out of time because we're recording early and I I had a hunch, but I didn't get to it. So, you're not pulling my uh my ski rope? >> No, no, your rope trauma.

Rope. >> My rope trauma. Uh, all right.

Well, another little Crimean War fact. I like that. >> And one other thing about George Bingham, the Earl of Lucan, he made his money by um as a landlord for poor Irish tenant farmers.

Yeah. >> And then would evict them and send them to the poor house when they couldn't pay rent. He was not a good guy at all, but that's how he became wealthy enough to buy his position as a commander of the uh brigade, the the um cavalry, I guess.

>> Right. All right. So Nolan delivers this order.

Uh he's, like we said, a pretty fast rider on that horse. He gets there pretty quickly. >> Uh we don't know.

This is where things get a little confusing. We don't know if he had other motives because he didn't like these guys. >> Uh he also was in the light brigade and he wanted to see some action.

and at that battle of the Alma River didn't get any action. And I think he was even frustrated because Lucan had orders to dispatch the light brigade and didn't take it. Like these guys wanted to see action.

They wanted to to be heroes on the battlefield, >> right? >> So he gets down there to deliver this message. They're looking around going like, "What guns are you talking about?

" And he basically just says, "Over there. " He points at the end of the valley and said, "There my lord is your enemy. these there are your guns, which was not the correct direction to point.

>> No, he was pointing at a heavily fortified Russian gun position, right? There were apparently like 30 or 40 cannons there. And what again Raglin was talking about were some poorly defended captured artillery guns um elsewhere, right?

I think they were on one of the sides. So when he pointed he was pointing to the center of three heavily fortified Russian positions on a um I think a ridge overlooking a valley and basically said Raglin is telling you to charge the light brigade. This isn't even a job for a light brigade but you and the light brigade are supposed to charge straight to those Russian guns in the middle of this uh horribly um dangerous place for you guys to be.

Let's go. >> That's right. And we don't know why he did that.

We don't know if he was confused. Uh we didn't know if he was doing it on purpose because he hated these guys. We don't know if he was doing it on purpose because he wanted that action.

>> Uh we don't know all this stuff because the guy who got the message wrong was one of the first people killed during this charge, which is not funny. I'm not laughing, but it it's just I mean this was known as sort of a a a war folly by by the end of it. Even though, as we'll see, it didn't turn out to be a complete loss.

>> No. Uh, I know we haven't gotten to the light brigade, the actual charge yet, but should we take a break now? >> Yeah, I think it it fits the act structure.

>> Sorry, everybody. >> We'll be right back. Learning stuff with Joshua stuff you should know.

>> All right. So, now we're finally at the light brigade charge. Uh, it was not supposed to happen that way.

Uh, again, it was a misunderstood or misdelivered at least order. And uh Lucan and Cardigan didn't know. They had 670 uh cavalry men u in this light brigade uh one of the most famous blunders in military history.

They said basically, "All right, um let's do this thing. " And they went charging through what was known as the Valley of Death. >> Yeah.

And there was no one there who was like, "Oh, okay. That's this is a good idea. Let's do this.

" But they they didn't question the orders. So when they entered this valley of death, that's what I think Tennyson called it later, right? >> Yeah.

>> Um they were again charging right for Russian cannon straight ahead. And then there were artill Russian artillery positions on either side and they're running right through this. And right when they start riding through the the um this valley of death, uh they just start getting fired upon.

They're fired upon on from all three directions, although apparently not all at the same time. But still like this was a it was essentially a suicide mission that they'd just been sent on and it just went badly immediately. Yeah.

There were people that survived it and uh they said that limbs were being shot off, heads were being shot off. Uh horses were running around without people on them or with just bodies on them without heads. Uh there was so much smoke apparently one soldier said it was like riding into the mouth of a volcano.

Uh that the heavy brigade it was going so badly the heavy brigade was supposed to follow. It was kind of reversed I guess and >> Lucan said no. He pulled those orders back and pulled back the heavy brigade even.

>> He said they have sacrificed the light brigade that shall not have the heavy if I can help it. >> Yeah. So, what's crazy about this is these 675 riders riding into 3,000ish um Russians and their their cannons.

All most of them, the majority of them made it. They made it to this these Russian lines and they broke them up. Um they actually at least the Russian artillery position that they were charging to toward in the center.

>> Yeah. >> They captured that. They actually managed to to um force the the uh Russian soldiers to retreat from that and so they captured those guns.

That's insane that that that happened. Like this should have there should have been no one alive and yet they actually fulfilled this nutso mission that should have never happened in the first place because it was a miscommunication. >> Yeah.

And they ended up getting all three of those positions uh because they went back into position. Uh the light brigade took out one of those positions, which by the way, I don't know if we made it clear, but one of those positions was the original order. Uh which I guess they eventually got to, >> right?

>> They just did it out of order. And then the other one was destroyed by a uh French light cavalry unit, um called the African Hunters or the uh how would you pronounce that? Josh >> Chester Dafri.

>> Very nice. >> Thanks. I took three years of French in high school.

>> Hey, it's been paying off for 18 years for us. So, >> little French from you, a little German for me, and everything else mispronounced. >> Oh, well, don't forget your Italian accent, though.

>> Well, sure. >> We have the whole of Europe covered. >> Yeah, most of it.

>> So, when the light brigade charged through this valley of death and broke up the the Russian artilleries and the French broke up another one, I think there was actually one left still. They had to ride back and were being fired upon by that remaining one, too. So they had to ride back from the valley to get to where they started back, you know, to safety again.

And when they got back, they found that of the 670 members of the Light Brigade who who undertook this charge, 110 were killed, 160 were wounded, 375 horses were killed. So 670 of the members, more than half of them lost their horse. And apparently some of the men told Cardigan that they were ready to go again.

Yeah, I guess it was uh you know, they felt like they did good work. They wanted to do more. >> I mean, I can't imagine if you thought you were going on a suicide mission and it actually worked out and you made it back alive.

I'm sure you were >> invigorated is probably underelling it. >> Yeah. But guys like you and I would have said, "How about we don't do that again?

" >> We would have been like, "Wait, are you sure that's what he said? Because this doesn't make any sense. Let's talk this through.

" >> Uh, all right. So, William Howard Russell is writing about this thing like we talked about. He is the one that ends up um and he did some beautiful writing as far as that kind of stuff goes, but he is the one who ended up inspiring Tennyson's poem.

>> Mh. >> Uh maybe I'll read this last line at least. It's a pretty good example.

>> Yeah. >> Um at the distance of,200 yards, the whole line of the enemy belched forth from 30 iron mouths a flood of smoke and flame through which hissed the deadly balls. Their flight was marked by instant gaps in our ranks, by dead men and horses, by steeds flying wounded or riderless across the plane.

>> That's pretty good reporting. >> Yeah, pretty good stuff. >> So, I think you mentioned before that the charge of the light brigade is viewed as um an enormous military blunder.

It's still very much taught in schools as like what not to do. Um, it's also I think it's also shorthand among military people as um like for any senseless waste of soldiers lives by higher up calling higher-ups calling bad shots. But it's also revered as an incredibly brave, courageous act.

And that's what's celebrated. Not not the fact that they even um were successful. That's that's not the most celebrated fact.

It was that these men just basically put their nose down and did what they they had to do. However you feel about that, that's essentially what the what the poem celebrates most of all. >> Yeah.

Which was uh when he was poet laurate of England uh in 1850 I think I think it was about 6 weeks after that battle is when he published the charge of the light brigade and the examiner initially. >> Yeah. >> Um should we read this last uh the second stanza?

>> Yeah. That's the most famous of all of them. >> Why don't you take this one?

>> Uh, I think you should. >> Okay. Forward the light brigade.

Was there a man dismayed? Not though the soldier knew someone had blundered. Theirs not to make reply.

Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do and die. Into the valley of death rode the 600.

>> Yeah. And apparently Tennyson uh recorded himself reading this on a wax cylinder. And there's places on the internet, >> including YouTube, I believe, um where you can hear it.

>> And it bears an uncanny resemblance to that um remember that doll >> in the dolls episode, the old timey talking doll from the 19th century. It sounds a little bit like that. But even getting past that, he >> I don't think he does a very good job reading it.

It's the It's the worst reading I've heard of that ever. >> So, you're saying my reading is better than Tennyson's own? >> I am.

It It is. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah.

So, way to go, man. >> I appreciate that. Maybe I should be poet laurate reader of England.

>> I've been secretly lobbying for you to be named poet laurate of the US for years now. >> Uh, my high school had a poet laurate. >> Who was it?

>> Uh, Natasha Trethway, if I'm not mistaken. She was there when I was there. Pretty cool stuff.

>> That's impressive. You remember that? >> Yeah.

Uh I think she might have been in my grade. So yeah, she was who knows I might have had English class with her for all I know. >> Uh so there was also from Tennyson the charge of the heavy brigade at Balaclava.

Uh it was years after the war though and this was and this is kind of where we end the story is um British war veterans had a very hard time after this in a lot of cases and there were many efforts to try and raise money and raise awareness for that that a lot of them went to poor houses and weren't cared for. Uh and this poem was written years later to try and raise money for these war veterans along with uh Kipling. Right.

Kipling wrote another one, the last of the light brigade that actually commemorates the charge of the heavy brigade at Balaclava in Tennyson's writing of it. And um Tennyson actually makes an appearance in this Kipling poem and but both of them were basically for the same reason to call attention to the fact that these Crimean war veterans had just been totally abandoned by their nations and were living in total poverty in a lot of cases. And what's really sad is that um a fundraising effort that Tennyson led thanks to his poem and his fame too.

I mean like he was very famous person. Yeah. At this time they were only able to collect 24 pounds.

>> Um that can't can't have been too much even back then. >> No. >> Uh there were a couple of movies.

Uh there was one from 1936, The Charge of the Light Brigade with Errol Flynn and Olivia De Havland. And Olivia de Havlin had her breakthrough role in Airport 77 years later. >> Yeah, that's what she's known for.

>> Uh there was it was a love triangle movie about British uh British soldiers um that takes place, you know, sort of around this fatal charge. And then another one from ' 68, right? >> Yeah.

Um it's called The Charge of the Light Brigade, but this one is a satire. satarizing um the British aristocracy, especially in the Victorian age, essentially just hungering for war so they could get their their own glory. Again, buying offices or um ranks in the military.

Uh and it was John Gilgood as Lord Cardigan. And um yeah, it I I haven't seen it. >> Vanessa Redgrave, like what a cast.

>> Yeah, it's quite quite a cast. Every time I see John Gilgood or hear his name, I uh replace his name with Dr Feelgood. The Miley Crew song.

>> He's the one they call John Gilgood. >> Sir John Gilgood. You have to add the sir.

>> He's the one they call Sir John Gil. Good. >> Yep.

There it is. He's the one that makes you feel all right. >> That's right.

If you're watching Arthur, that is. >> Was he in that? Was he the butler?

>> Yeah. I think he won a Oscar for that role. >> For the butler.

>> Yeah. I mean >> I mean that's impressive. >> He was great.

This is one of my favorite movies growing up. Still is. Awesome.

Well, that's the charge of the light brigade, everybody. >> That's right. >> Chuck said that's right.

So, it's time for listener mail. >> Uh, hey guys, long story short, I've been listening for four plus years. And, uh, as many others say, you two have no idea how much appreciation your fan base has for you.

Uh, writing this, I was scouring through old episodes. I came across an up where you two disagreed on the subject. I can't remember what it was, but you kept the animated conversation going for a few minutes.

was a subtle reminder that the two of you, just like anybody else, are friends and can totally have disagreements or differing opinions. But let's have a little fun. Can you share an example of when you disagreed with the other, but rather than voice it on the air, you kept it to yourself?

Or are there any topics where you had a disagreement and you cut it out? Uh, that is warmly from uh Warner Finn. PS, mom and dad.

Uh, I'll go ahead and answer for my part in that, uh, I don't think we've ever had a disagreement that we've like cut off cut out of the episode >> that I can think of. >> No, we we almost Yeah, we leave those in. I can't think of one either.

>> Yeah. And I can't think of I mean there's the famous, you know, watering the lawns and things like that from past episodes, but uh I mean I'm sure there's lots of little things I might disagree on in the moment that I keep to myself that just aren't a big deal and I don't bring them up cuz it's just not worth mentioning in a show episode. >> Yeah, you want to keep the show going.

Plus, also, I mean, you can only correct one another so often before you start seeming like a know-it-all or whatever or it just is interruptive. Most of the time it just doesn't matter. Like um chassis, you remember you're saying chassis and I didn't correct you.

>> Oh man, >> it just didn't matter, you know. >> Yeah, exactly. And uh >> yeah, I think that sums it up best.

We uh and and on just big stuff philosophically, we're pretty much aligned as humans and friends. So like that's why there's never any big stuff is because we both kind of park our cars in the same garage for the most part. much different podcast if we if we didn't see eye to eye generally on the big stuff I think.

>> Yeah. And I I mean I think most of the disagreements are like you didn't like that movie. That kind of stuff, >> right?

>> And who cares about that, you know? >> Or you've never had um pizza rolls. >> Yeah.

Like I don't like pickles and mustard and even though you're determined to convince me there's >> a pickle and a mustard I might like. >> Yeah. No, I finally accepted both.

>> Oh, okay. I've accepted it that you don't like pickles. It's okay.

>> Well, that's recent cuz last week you tried to feed me a pickle mustard sandwich. >> It's just from yesterday. I really gave a lot of thought to it in the sauna.

>> Okay, good. >> And uh yeah, I'm like he just doesn't like pickles. >> I wonder what you were thinking about that day.

>> That was it. >> All right. >> All right.

Who was that from? >> That was from Warner Finn uh in Los Angeles. >> Oh, I thought you were going to say something else.

Thanks a lot, Warner. I was, but I stopped myself. See how that happens.

>> Were you going to correct me or something? >> No, not at all. I'll tell you after.

>> Okay. Uh, thanks a lot, Warner. That was a really great email.

It reminds me of the kind of questions we get at the Q&A we do at our live shows, which we have coming up. I think we're probably in the middle of them right now when this comes out. >> That's right.

>> Are we going to be other places, too? So, you can find out where we're going to be by going to stuff you should know. com and clicking on the onour button.

And in the meantime, if you want to send us an email like Warner did, you can send it to stuffodcast@ iheartradio. com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeart Radio.

For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.