Bob Lazar UNSEEN Interview with Don Garlits (1997)

Bob, for the benefit of our viewers, someone out there that doesn't know who you are, tell us who you are. Give us your credentials and where you've worked. Well, I'm a physicist and a scientist. I've worked uh at various government institutions. One of them being Los Alamos National Labs uh in Los Alamos, New Mexico. And also I'm more prominently known for working at area S4 which is about 15 miles south of Area 51 in the Nevada desert which is a top cir top top secret government research facility. Where did you go to school Bob? I

went to school at MIT and Caltech also a couple other junior colleges here and there in California. And what was your field of study? Field of study was physics and electronics technology. And when you were working for these different installations before you went to S4, you you didn't have any connection with flying saucers whatsoever, did you? No, I I didn't have any connection. And in fact, I didn't even believe in them. I thought it was just uh you know, the rantings and ramblings of crazy people, more or less. When was the first time that you

actually began to believe or got interested in the subject enough to want to go someplace and and maybe work with them? Well, I was never interested in the subject at all, primarily because I didn't believe in it. Uh, it's when I was offered a job. Uh, working on advanced propulsion systems is how it was advertised to me. And it was only later that I found out the job I was employed to do was to back engineer extraterrestrial craft or an extraterrestrial craft. And uh, it really happened backwards from the normal chain of events. How did

you come to get the job at the S4 area? Well, that's a good question. Um, and I really don't know if I can answer it. I don't know what motivated them. There are certainly more more uh intelligent, more educated uh people around. There is a wide variety of high-profile scientists and physicists that they could have pulled out of the works anywhere. If anything, uh, you know, your guess is as good as mine on that. I really don't know why I was chosen. I did have uh not really connections per se, but I did know a

couple people uh that were also involved in the project. I I really didn't know they were at the time, but uh you know, they could have put a name in and uh you know, it could have wound up that way. You think that Dr. Teller might have had anything to do with it? It's it's a substantial possibility. at uh one time while I was at working at Los Alamos, I went to uh see one of his lectures. I got there early and he was outside and coincidentally at that particular time I was on the front

page of the newspaper he was reading uh and he was reading about an article about a small Honda Civic that I had converted to run on jet power. And uh I introduced myself and explained what I was doing. And uh some years later, I had sent a resume to him and some other uh national labs when I decided to get back into the scientific field after I had moved to Las Vegas. And uh you know I it is substantially possible that he had a hand in doing it. He did refer me to someone at EGNG

which in turn did lead to the employment at S4. When did you actually see the first vehicle or ship or craft that that you knew for sure wasn't of this manufacturer on this planet? Well, I did see it probably the second or third time I went out to the facility. Um, and at that time I wasn't convinced that's what the craft was. When I first saw it, I I thought that this was a US-made very advanced next generation fighter and in fact that this would explain all the UFO sightings. Um it was only later to

find out that that wasn't the case when I started receiving some documentation on the craft and actually got to go in it and found out what the scope of the project was. But um you know I had seen it earlier on but really didn't know what I was looking at. And what what was the scope of the project? What were you supposed to do to this craft? Well, the scope of the the group there, the people at S4 were to backer essentially take apart and discover the manufacturing process and materials used to produce this craft,

this flying saucer. Um, more specifically, my group consisted of me and and another person, his name was Barry, that we dealt with the power and propulsion system of the craft. And we were to back engineer that. We were to see if the power and propulsion system could be duplicated and if it could possibly be duplicated with earthly materials instead of any exotic foreign material materials that we might have come across. When you saw that craft and you realized it was an alien craft, did that did that upset you in any way that knowing that here

was a vehicle from another system sitting right here on the planet Earth and of course always believing that there was no such thing. It was hallucinations and so forth. What was what was your feeling inside when you when you were confronted with the reality that all that you had believed before was was gone now and you had to take a whole new look at things? Well, actually that's a good question. A lot of people have said, "Boy, that must have been exciting." And you know, that really wasn't the case. Uh the feeling really came over

me when I was permitted in the craft to see the placement of the subsystems that we were going to be working on. And it was not a feeling of excitement at all. It was a very ominous feeling, a feeling, like I've said before, that, you know, you shouldn't be there. It's it's very hard to relay, but it was a a real overwhelming odd feeling that I had. uh you know, without trying to use a pun, it was a very unearly atmosphere and uh you know, as it should be because none none of the materials were

familiar, none of the you know, architecture or the device was familiar and it was just it was very odd. Yeah. Because obviously they were here and we weren't there. So you would being a scientist you would know the ramifications of such a situation which brings me to this question. How far in the future do you estimate that craft was to what we're doing at the present time? Well, I've heard other people estimate things like that uh saying, "Well, it's a thousand or 10,000 years advanced of our technology." And I don't really find that to be

the case. I all I really find to be the case is probably a technology that's about a 100red or 200 years in advance of us. And the only reason being is because they stumbled upon a device, a machine that can actually make gravity, that can produce gravitational waves. Now, this is something that our science and physics knows. We know what gravity is. We know how it works, but we really just observe it. We don't understand it. And we certainly don't have a machine that can create a gravitational wave. And uh because they've developed this, they

have a unique propulsion system and that has a lot of offshoot possibilities and other uses. Uh also the power source is fairly unique. We know of its existence. Uh there is a total annihilation reaction we know of. The three atomic reactions we know of or fishision as you see in a atomic bomb, fusion as you see in a a hydrogen bomb, and we're currently trying to make a fusion reactor to provide power cleanly. And we also know there's a total annihilation reaction which is a extremely virtually 100% efficient reaction that you know we're really not

haven't even begun to do any research with. But you know here these systems in place operating and it really didn't look that far in advance you know of what we were well one interesting thing that reactor that powered this vehicle was very small in relationship to the power it produced. Was it not? Oh it was tremendously tiny. You're looking at something that puts out more power than an average nuclear power plant. And if anyone lives near one of those, you know how big those things are. And we're looking at something, you know, scarcely bigger than

a basketball that's doing this. Incredible. Do do you think that these beings pose any threat to the human race? I don't think so. And again, that that's speculation. I I I really wouldn't know anything about that. But if if the intent was to do harm, you know, from all indications, it seems like, you know, the earth has been visited for thousands of years. And if there was any intent to do harm, it would have already been done. If if anything, now this is just my personal speculation. I think we're more of a Disneyland, an interesting

thing to observe, but uh I don't believe there's any real direct interaction there. There may be, but I I don't see any evidence of it. Why does why doesn't the government just come clean on all this because there's so much speculation on it. There's so much disinformation out there. Why don't they just come forward and say this is what's going on? They don't pose any threat and it's just something you're just going to have to live up to people. Well, it's it's difficult to do that. First of all, if they were going to come completely

clean, they're going to have to admit that as far back as 50 years ago, they knew this was going on. And in the meantime, they've been spreading disinformation and lies about events that you know that have occurred. So they're they're not going to go and say, "We've been lying to you for 50 years." So to start with, there's a problem there. Um even if they started today and said, "Well, we found out a couple things and uh you know, here's what we found out." It it because these systems are advanced and they pose a real

unique function. They present a substantial weapon potential. And because of that, all the information is certainly not going to be released. However, I've always wondered why at least the existence of the craft, at least a statement to the effect of we have found some material. We have some information, a lot of it pertains to national security. However, we can verify the existence of life's life elsewhere other than Earth and technology that we have and you know perhaps release a little bit of information here. But, uh, they're not even doing that. And, you know, on on

that note, there might be several reasons that we haven't thought of a lot. Who knows what beliefs that it might interfere with, you know, it it's a scary thought. you know, we've pretty much put oursel in the center of the entire universe, that we're the you know, most superior race and uh you know, it might upset people to find out that we're really not that significant. Well, with that thought in mind, do you think perhaps maybe that the aliens themselves may be saying, "Look, it's better if you just kind of keep it quiet and let

us just go on about observing your little Disneyland." And and you think that might be part of it, too? It it could certainly be part of it. Could it it could be the the architecture of the whole plan might have been laid down by them. Who knows what kind of communication if any that we've had. But um you know again your guess is as good as mine on that. How many how many different types of the craft did you see just one or were there other other styles? Well there was one craft that I worked

on that that craft was a very sleek thin looking craft compared to the other ones that were there. There were nine nine craft. Um, I nicknamed this one the sport model because it was a very sleek looking uh 50s style flying saucer looking thing and the name pretty much stuck and people were using that name. Um, I really don't know much about the other crafts other than the fact that whether it was accidentally or you know just a coincidence that I happened to see them one time. All the hanger doors were open at one particular

time when I was there and normally they were closed. But for the most part, the only information I have is the uh on the craft that I particularly worked on. So you don't have any idea whether the other craft came from different systems or they were all from the same system? You have no idea about that? Well, I do know for a fact that the power and propulsion system in all the crafts were the same. So that that either says, you know, now you have to start speculating that number one, they either all come from

the same manufacturer or number two, someone is subbing out parts. And you know, I mean, your mind can run away on this somewhere because you see obviously a vehicle like this is produced. Well, there must be a factory somewhere. And you know, eventually, you know, your mind just runs off with you and you have to draw a line somewhere. Of course. I mean, it may be today that we will buy the reactor and the the the system and the components from this big galactic company that has the exclusive on it. Maybe there's some sort of

a patent on this thing. It's possible. But to me, it's it's so hard to believe. And I know that's strange coming from me, but um you know, I kind of draw a line between the actual alien existence and a social structure. And and I think that's to keep my sanity. And I pretty much only deal with the stuff that I know for a fact and had hands-on experience with because you your mind can really run away with you and who knows what's going on. You'll find yourself standing outside staring at the sky wondering why no

one's going to talk to you. And uh so to keep my sanity day, I just deal with you know what I actually know to be fact and try not to speculate too much. Getting back to that, have you actually did you actually see the craft that you worked on fly or or or operate? Yeah, I did on on one occasion close up and on several occasions from about 10 miles away. On the one particular occasion, uh there was a test flight going on, they came and got me uh to witness a short duration flight and

I stood at the door of the hanger and the craft lifted off the ground, you know, which was an amazing sight in itself. Something about 52 feet in diameter virtually silently lift off the ground and just move around a bit and set back down. But um you know that was the close-range operation I got to saw. Can humans duplicate that vehicle at the time I was there? That was not even in the realm of possibility. How about are they able to fly them? Well, be able to fly it. Well, there was a test pilot flying

the craft. So apparently we had developed the expertise at least to lift the thing off the ground and move it around. um as far as taking it any great distance or taking it out of the atmosphere, it's something I don't think would happen. This is, you know, a prized possession on operating operating extraterrestrial craft and uh you know, things change when you leave the atmosphere. Things like the fact there's no air outside, the fact that there's not exactly a 100% chance you can bring it back now. So, uh you know, I don't think they're flying

around to Jupiter and taking looks at planets. I think they're they're very careful with it. They're just testing it and uh you know and will remain that way for an extremely long time. It would seem like the government would really be just all the stops would be pulled out to try to duplicate this because this seems to me like the ultimate vehicle to move around especially in our own solar system. Well, yeah, you hit on two points there. It is the ultimate vehicle to move around and imagine being able to go anywhere instantaneously now without

any weapon potential at all. Consider that being a weapon potential. We have trouble in the Middle East. You know how long it takes us to get aircraft carriers out there? Well, we'll be out there in a couple weeks. I mean, it takes lots of planes refueling. If we could be out there in the snap of a finger and load something up like this with tanks and weapons, you know, that's a you know, or or behind enemy lines instead of advancing in front of them. I mean, this is a tremendous weapon. And it's because of that,

I think, where we see a lot of the secrecy stemming from. So, it's they're kind of torn between pulling out all the stops to move ahead on development and putting all the stops in to find stop anyone from finding out what's going on. So, they're they're really between a rock and a hard place. Exactly. How fast is Well, it can ask then just exactly how fast is the do you know how fast this craft might fly? Well, it's because of the way that the craft operates. It's it's kind of a question really doesn't make sense

because gravity it's a gravitational propelled device and we know gravity bends time and bends space. Distorts time and distorts space. Um when you move in a linear mode you travel x distance in so much time which is what determines your velocity. However, if you're distorting time and distorting the distance, the equation no longer makes sense. It's it's nonsense. So, essentially, because of the gravitational propulsion of the device, you can move at tremendous distances almost instantaneously. Did did you ever figure out or did did they tell you where this craft came from from what system or

whereabouts? Well, there was documentation that they had, but uh you know, it was something that I couldn't verify. I knew what I was working on because I got to analyze it and you develop theories about it, but um as far as information from other people, I don't know if the information is correct, but I assume most of it was. If in fact it was, they claim that the the craft came from uh the Zeta Reticuli star system. It's a star system called the net. I believe that's uh visible only in the southern hemisphere. So don't

bother looking at it if you're in the United States but um it's about 32 light years away which is a tremendous diff distance considering that even if you were moving at the speed of light it would take you 32 years to get there and 32 years to get back which of course we can't a speed we can't even attain now. Of course this this craft obviously gets back and forth faster than that. Well, it must and because of the assumption that number one, it's small. Number two, there's no stores for anything such as food. It

doesn't appear to be any waste area. Doesn't even It doesn't appear to hold any cargo. So, wherever it came from, it came from there really fast. You know, it's another reason I called it the sport model. It has no luggage space. Kind of like a dragster. Exactly. Trunk. It's got no bathroom. It's got no bathroom. It's got one specific function to get from one place to the other as fast as possible. And that's what this looked like. It did. Sounds good. When were you taken off this project or did you just quit the project or

did the project get completed? Now we're now we're into a long story. I never specifically quit um a a problem formed and this I don't know if you want to go into a long dissertation here, but it was uh I I really don't know how to explain it. a problem for him from you took some people out to see the craft fly. Well, I had taken some people out there, but that wasn't where the problem had stemmed from. The problem was before that because of all the time I was keeping this quiet from my family

and uh friends, everything. Uh, a lot of times I had to leave during the night. At the time, my wife obviously thought that I was running around with someone. Now, I had given permission during a lot of the security clearances to uh monitor my telephone, my mail, everything. I gave written permission for that. And as months went by, my wife started having an affair. Now, they were monitoring this and knew about it, but I didn't. And because they saw potential for an emotional instability, they didn't want anyone they wanted they wanted the situation to resolve

itself. So they stopped me from coming out to work some and some time went by and then I began to get a little concerned that now I have all this information. They don't want me coming out there anymore. And this is when I started to bring a couple friends out to show them what was going on in case something actually happened to me. And then we got caught going out there. So it was just a a terrible chain of events that occurred and eventually I just wound up not going there. 7027 Hello. I'm in the

middle of an interview. Bye. That well. Yeah. The craft is about 52 feet in diameter and about 16 feet high. Originally, some years ago when I came out, I I had the dimensions wrong. I thought it was about 30 feet in diameter and because I'm really not good at judging distances closely. However, I worked with some of the model people from the tester corporation and they had some uh artists come out and what we did is we took dimensions of things that I knew that were close up and uh they scaled them back and essentially

reconstructed the entire craft that way and the dimensions and everything matched. So, I think the the final ones came out to about 52.8 ft in diameter and 16 or 15.2 feet high, something along those lines. Tell us a little bit about the craft itself inside where you went inside the craft, what you saw and how just kind of a basic function. Well, there's three levels to the craft. There's the central level that the hatch lets you into. Um, this is where there are three seats. In the exact center of the craft, there's the reactor that

powers it. Surrounding the reactor are three gravity amplifiers that provides the power and the field that propel the craft. On the level underneath that are the actual wave guide antennas, horns, whatever you want to call them that actually emit the gravity wave. They hang down in a triad at the bottom level of the craft and they are movable. The very top part of the craft there are small black port holes we've called them on there. Um, now I don't know exactly what's on that level, but I firmly believe that that's the navigational system. And those

port hole type devices are actually sensors that determine the craft's orientation in space. Uh, so it can tell whether it's from starfixes or landmarks or or who knows what or system that we're not familiar with, but that's how the craft determines its orientation and position in space. How about the construction of the different components? Uh, what was it like that? Was it bolted together, snapped together, held together with Velcro? What What helped this thing together? Well, it was actually it was it was fascinating that there were no seams, no visible seams that I was able

to see. Um, there were no fastening devices, rivet screws. Everything had the appearance of being injection molded. all different systems that were connected to each other were completely smooth and and connected like you'd see in a giant, you know, plastic injection molder. Um, there was really nothing that was discernible as a fastening device fastening device or or a seam to me anywhere. Well, it sounds like some technology I'd love to see in top fuel. There would be some really fine things drasters we could build with some of that kind of stuff. Oh, that's that's for

sure. Judging from the size of the craft, the height of each level, the size of the seats, then what would be your guesstimate as to the size of the beings? Uh, judging from the seat and judging from the height of the ceiling, the the being's height probably couldn't have exceeded four feet. And that that's tops because when you walk into the craft, you're hunched all the way over. In fact, you have to practically crawl in, but you're hunched all the way over till you come up to the center of the craft. So, it it's certainly

nothing our size, you know, more probably half our size. Three and a half feet would be more realistic. The seats are small. Oh, yeah. Well, you've heard here's another another area that's always been strange. You've heard all about these abductions. Everybody's talking about they've been abduct What is your opinion on the abduction stories? Personally, I I don't believe him, but and again, that's something strange coming from me, you know, coming out with a flying saucer story, but uh I just I don't see enough evidence and I uh yeah, it's just a gut feeling. I could

be completely wrong, but I just have a hard time with most of them. And if in fact, you know, they did occur there, you know, there might be one or two uh that may have actually occurred, you know, with reference to Betty and Barney Hill who were a couple in the 60s who claimed the first abduction. Uh, you know, there is some interesting, you know, evidence there, but I don't know for sure. And my gut feeling is that that I that I just don't buy it. Okay. And as you said earlier, they may be just

looking at us like we're some big Disney world. Something interesting to right to observe. And and you you said how how long do you think they've been watching? Did I hear you say earlier you think over a thousand years or more than that? Oh, more than that. I mean, there's very interesting old paintings uh from the Renaissance period that have pictures of flying saucers drawn in the background in the sky. you know, you know, obviously not a smudge, but obviously an elliptical-shaped craft and uh you know, with a glow around it, I mean, so some

of these are are fascinating. So whether or not that proves anything, I mean, there's certainly mention of them in some older texts, too. So I, you know, from the evidence that I've seen it, it appears that they've been coming here for thousands of years. You've never actually seen one of these beings? No, I haven't. Do you know at this at these Have you ever heard of any underground facilities where they might be some of these beings might Well, I've I've heard a lot of stories and in fact S4 is built into a mountain. The only

thing and the reason for that is to disguise it from satellite photographs. Um it doesn't go down unless there are parts of the facility that uh I wasn't permitted to to go into. But um you know I haven't seen any of these deep underground facilities where there's aliens working side by side with humans working on secret projects. You know I don't uh I don't know if I believe those and uh and and in fact just because I I you know have a negative opinion about it doesn't mean it's it doesn't exist but I just have

a hard time believing that. Have you have you heard of any of these ships being in any other countries? Does anybody Are we the only one? Is the United States the only one that that has has any of these uh craft? Well, I've heard stories. Um I don't really keep a breast of all the UFO information, but um the one that caught my attention was uh there were sightings in Sweden, I believe in the 70s and early 80s of a farmer out there called Billy Meyer. And the reason that caught my attention is the craft

looks exactly like the one that I was working on. He has some fantastic photographs of it. Now, people claim that the photographs are phony and so on and so forth. However, they look fairly decent and on top of that, it looks exactly like the craft that I worked on. So, if it was a a phony picture, the chances of them building a model that looked exactly like the actual craft are remote. So, it is possible that that that craft was there or we may have been testing it ourselves and taken it that far, though I

doubt that. But u that has caught my attention. Okay. Has the government given you any problem about coming out and discussing this? Uh initially there was a big problem with that and there were threats and so on and so forth. But uh you know over time once it started airing on TV in fact for the the first day they broke into the news here in Las Vegas and aired it it was pretty much a hands-off approach after that. Bob, obviously this was all top secret information when you were working on this project and then the

news started to break the information to the general public. Did did you have any problem with the government when this happened? Well, initially before it hit hit the news, there was a there was a big problem. There were lots of threats and and things of that sort. They even hassled a lot of my friends. Uh I had a friend working at uh you know another facility on the test site working with stealth fighters and they pulled him out of work and interrogated him. And uh you know this they pretty much covered all bases but after

it went on the news uh they broke into the news one night in Las Vegas that u it was a hands-off approach after that because really doing anything would really verify what I said was true and uh you know it's pretty much been that way ever since. And have they done anything like insert disinformation in to discredit you in any way? So people say well this is just Bob Lazar he's he's the kook out there in Las Vegas. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the disinformation is is so fantastic. It's absolutely entertaining to the point now. I

mean, I've heard stories that I was a murderer, that I I was selling women in South America. I mean, any bizarre story you can think of has been attributed to me. Anything to discredit uh what I've said, and some of them are, you know, tremendously funny, and some of them have some basis in fact, and they've just distorted it and changed it around. And uh you know it's it's really unbelievable. And for the most place you get most of the stuff's on the internet because there's no ramifications of anybody ever saying on on anything on

the internet. I can you know put up a web page that says Don Garlet is a child molester and you can't do a thing about it. So it's uh you know it's it's open season. You know drag racing is real expensive especially top fuel racing. You know it's up to $10,000 a run now. No, I didn't. But what what kind of budget do you think the military would would have on a project like this? Well, the budget would probably be uh phenomenal and uh you know where the money comes from is another good question. It

was probably originally funneled through some of the Star Wars budget, but uh it's obviously it's labeled as a black project, which means it doesn't have any real accounting to it. It just absorbs money from other places, you know, without any paper trail. But I imagine the budget is fairly substantial. Where did they find the craft? Do do you know where this craft came from? Did they ever reveal to you where they found the craft? No, I don't know if it was found given or dug up in a a hole somewhere. The the only information that

I had was just uh the little blurb that they gave us that the craft had originated in the Zeter 2 star system and you know that's all I know but it wasn't damaged in a way so it wasn't obviously wasn't crashed. No, I don't believe that it it crashed. It was it was in perfect operating condition. Did they did the people who you worked for feel like that we had the capabilities of catching up with this technology? Oh, absolutely. they and that was part of the intent was to you know move our technology up to

the stage and uh duplicate it and that's what the big push was was not just to duplicate it but to duplicate it with materials that we had and were familiar with and um you know I only knew what happened up to 1989 you know it's coming up on 10 years now uh wherever the project is operating we know it's not up near Area 51 anymore but uh they may have already come pretty far we know they didn't stop on the work, don't we? You got that right. What about the Roswell instant? Are you familiar with

that? I've heard a lot about that like everyone has. Watched some specials on television here and there. I don't have any inside information on it, but uh yeah, it certainly seems like something occurred there. Well, over 300 people have come forward that claim they saw the craft or saw the crash site or saw being. So in our today's court of law, three people say they saw you kill somebody, you could go to the gas chamber. Oh, right. I I believe in in court it's an absolute win. I I defy anyone to disprove it in court,

but uh you know, we don't have that opportunity. Let's talk ask about can describe exactly how this anti-gravity this gravity machine called size of a basketball functions or works. Let's get into the engineering. Bob, for the the sake of our viewers out there that are technologically inclined, can you give us a kind of a brief overview of how that little small basketball reactor, how it could generate power and and cause a gravitational field to form? I'll give a brief overview of it. It it can get fairly technical but uh basically what it is is a

reactor and an accelerator. Uh the base plate of the device is something similar to a cyclron where particles are sped up in a magnetic field and accelerated to a high speed. The fuel is an element that we don't have here on Earth known as element 115. Uh is something we also can't synthesize in a an accelerator. Um there are heavier elements that we do synthesize like plutonium and things along those lines and generally they have a half-life which means they disintegrate very rapidly and the higher you go up on the periodic chart the faster these

things disintegrate. However, we have always theorized that there's an little island somewhere around element 114, 115 that elements will become once again stable like other elements are like zinc and iron and you know uh things that we're more familiar with. Well, apparently this is the case. Uh whether this element is occurred occurs naturally somewhere else in the solar system, somewhere else in the galaxy uh or it's synthesized is again speculation. However, this is the fuel that's used. When this is bombarded with an accelerated proton from, you know, the pseudo cyclletron on the bottom of the

device, it transmutes itself. It produces element 116 which releases a form of radiation that we really haven't seen in any matter radiation. And though antimatter sounds some like out of something out of Star Trek, it's uh it's something that we do produce in small quantities and accelerators. It's a It's a particle with a charge and a spin that's opposite of normal matter. The reason antimatter is uh so interesting to us and has been so interesting in science fiction is that when antimatter reacts with matter, when antimatter contacts matter, it releases 100%. It's almost a total

conversion of that matter to energy with virtually nothing left. Now in all other fusion efficient reactions you typically see an efficiency of about anywhere from 8/10en of 1% to about 8%. Here's a and you know how much energy those reactions release. This is a 100% efficient reaction. So what happens is this particle is accelerated. It interacts with the element. It produces this antimatter radiation. It's just really antihydrogen is what it's producing. And this is reacted with a gaseous matter target. when they react they produce you know a small explosion a tremendous amount of heat and

how that heat is converted into electricity is a a thermionic generator which is something along the lines of a thermouple it's uh something that when it gets hot as long as you put heat energy into it it produces electrical energy out however the devices we power spacecraft with them we use uh in fact that uh probe that just went to Saturn Cassini probe had 70 some odd pounds of plutonium in it and it used a thermionic generator, but ours aren't quite that efficient. This is again virtually 100% efficient that the reactor itself doesn't even get

hot when it's operating. Um, that's just how the reactor produces a large amount of electrical energy. It also produces because of the element 115, which happens to have a unique property that this gravitational field extends beyond the perimeter of the atom. And again, we can get into, you know, a lot of particle physics and that there are some forces that are mislabeled, but um this field that the element produces is amplified very similar to a microwave. In fact, uh microwaves are transmitted through waveguides which are like pipes. And that's very similar to how this is

amplified and also transmitted essentially through pipes through waveguides throughout the craft and focused amplified and used for propulsion. Sounds interesting. Yeah, it's it gets pretty hairy, but it is a fascinating technology. This has got to be Bob the biggest story in the history of mankind. Why has the mainream stayed off of it completely. And you know how they love big stories. Well, they do, but it's a it's a dangerous story. It's like reporting on Bigfoot because there's not a lot of evidence. Uh once you leave a pro a project like that, they don't you don't

leave with drawings and descriptions. Uh for the most part, they virtually erase your background. And I know that sounds like mission impossible, but even the places that I worked, uh, the places that I was educated denied that I was ever there. Uh, I mean, it's it's a it's a far-reaching thing. And without without proof, nobody wants to look like they have egg on their face. So, you don't get mainstream anything to cover this. Until there's more evidence, there's more proof. And even if you got two or three scientists to come forward, that's still not enough.

People want hardcore facts. They want things they can photograph, things they can touch, and things they can get verify. And because of the secrecy involved, even if that was about to happen, it would, you know, the it would be squashed by the government under the guise of national security. No, you can't air that special. No, you can't do this, you know, so on and so forth. So, I don't think it's going to come out until they decide that they want it out. Can the American people handle the truth? I think so. The American people can

handle a lot. It may not be what they want to hear. It may interfere with a lot of their current beliefs, but uh we adjust to everything. We really do. I think they're really underrating us. That probably goes for the rest of the world, too. Wouldn't you say? Absolutely. The room next door he has here. Looks like a chemical laboratory or something. Oh, yeah. That's a lab. Okay. I want to ask him about what's in the room next door. Looks like a lab with a You know, there's been millions of sightings. My wife and I

have seen a couple of things ourselves that were absolutely unexplainable. What do you think with all that sightings? There's just so few actual photographs and most of them are blurry. Has that got something to do perhaps with the way the craft operates or is it just the fact that when people see it, they don't see it that long. There wasn't camera equipment available. What's your opinion on that? Well, there's two points you made. First of all is having anything any equipment available. Usually, a sighting is exactly what you say, a sighting. It's an event that

happens. It's over. How many photographs do you have of car accidents? How many photographs have you seen of car accidents other than at the drag strip because we know something's going to happen? But but just out on the road, you never have one. No, that's true. It's because it's the event happens and it's over. Now, the only reason you know about it or the news crew gets there because it stays there after it happened. But the actual accident there are no photographs of because it's a fleeting event. And any fleeting event, that's something that you

don't see. And a lot of people harp on that saying, "Well, there's no photographs of them flying." Well, it happened for two seconds. What do you want from us? Even if you got a camcorder in your hand, who says you're going to be, you know, looking at the thing? On top of that, because these gra these crafts operate using a gravitational engine, the gravity wave, gravity itself distorts light and space and time. And all that stuff sounds again like science fiction and and you know something that's difficult to believe but we know we know that

gravity bends light bends space and bends time and because of that factor there are for instance on the craft that I worked under I was told that under certain from certain vantage points underneath the craft you can't see the craft you can only see the sky above it because the light is bent around the craft. So there certainly could be situations where you could see something and someone 20 or 30 feet away from you could be looking at a clear blue sky and not see it. It's it's just the way things happen. Will broadcasting this

uh interview get you or I in any trouble? What was that? I missed it. Will broadcasting this interview get you or I in any trouble? I don't think so. It's been about you and like I said almost 10 years and you know this has been on the news and gone over a bunch of times and I think it's pretty much staying where it is. I don't see any problems. So nobody's going to be calling up ESPN saying you don't run that piece. Well, if they do it wouldn't really surprise me. Okay. Don asking about his

room next door. Bob, what's in the room next door here? Oh, that's that's my lab in here. I do a lot of uh independent research or uh consultation, anything science related, physics related uh along with computer modeling, uh anything along those lines. You told me you were just uh you were designing or had did the computer work on a on a rocket car that's going to go 900 miles an hour. Well, I have a friend, his name is Waldo Stakes, and him and uh a rocket engineer, Kent Mason, uh built this car, and I believe

this winter they're going to start running it. It's called Sonic Wind, and it's slated to go over 900 miles on ice. Uh I believe the highspeed record's only in 200 some odd miles an hour. So, I ran a couple simulations on on my computer and uh just to see how the thing would perform. But it should be very interesting to see that it's a uh liquid oxygen locks alcohol powered rocket. Uh in fact, the rocket's a booster off an Atlas rocket, you know, one of those old uh rockets from the 50s. But uh it's quite

a machine. I'd like to get you to look at my Swamperat 32 and four and see how it looks aerodynamic in here because you've got a lot of experience in aerodynamics. Yeah, to some extent. And see if see if I was on the right track and maybe give me a little some some tips there. Well, it couldn't hurt to run it through the computer. I think we'll do that. Well, Bob, it's uh it's been great talking with you and we and thanks a million. I I know from myself and all of my fans, we really

thank you for doing this interview. It's certainly been enlightening. Well, it was my pleasure. Well, on that tell tell what you can do. Tell us a little bit about in the briefing room you because you had that on your tape. Tell us a little bit what happened in when you went into this room. Tell us about the briefing room and some of the things that happened in there. There wasn't a whole lot. It was a small room. It was um I was essentially left with a bunch of uh briefings, 120 some odd. I no longer

can even remember how many. Uh and basically they just contained uh a small overview of each uh satellite project that was going on. So we all knew the existence of each other. We just didn't knew know specifically what they were doing. For instance, there was a group that was dealing with the metal energy of the craft. there was a group dealing with uh you know I mean virtually every aspect of it. So um again it gave us just an overview of what was going on and uh the name of some of the projects as I'm

sure they had specific information dealing with their project and just had a small overview of what our group was working on. So that's basically all it was was just reading through a lot of that and along with some of the other information that was apparently collected from the craft or you know information that they had learned in the past. So what what can you tell us about any bodies of alien beings? Well, there there apparently were some somewhere. There were there were some autopsy pictures of uh of a being. Now, I I don't know if

that had to do if this was something that was just in the history of the project or it was or if it was something that was there or it was something that had to relate, you know, to to this craft, but uh of the two photographs that I saw, there were only two there. It was uh a small being just showing the chest and the chest was cut in a T fashion with the skin pulled back and it was the the thing had just one central organ as if that looked if you ever seen a

liver in the supermarket just kind of a brown almost liquid looking thing but it had just one central organ and then the next photographs had the organ vivisectioned and it it had seemed like all the uh organs you normally had had just grown together. There was a se section of it that apparently pumped blood, another section of it that processed air. And it just seemed, you know, to be one single organ as opposed to little separate units here and there, but it was uh and again there was no information with it. We were just given

the information knowing of the existence just in case any information might help us in determining you know what our particular project did. For instance, we were working on the power and propulsion system. There was no reason for us to have a tour of the inside of the craft. However, maybe the placement of the reactor was important to its operation. So, we did have to see where it was. We did have to see uh, you know, some satellite things around what was going on.