France, right? They're just talking about They don't even read your body language or your facial expressions like you're not interested. Obviously, not interested anymore. They still go on. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. You're absolutely right. As it sounds, a marriage can be superficial. Yeah. I think it happens a lot. If you just look around you, you observe the married friends that you have, you know, the the whether there is depth or not. To me, it's very obvious, but everybody is like it's very normal for the husband to tell the wife off in public or the wife telling
the husband off, right? It's like Asian. very Asian using someone as a drug. As a drug. Okay. I thought it was crutch. Drug. Okay. Yeah, that's worse. Um, where did this idea come from to have this topic? Can you remember? You suggested it. Oh, I did. It came from you. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I think it might have been a social media post that I saw where people are using people as you know to feel good. Yeah. To feel good about themselves or to use someone like medicine you know like they they Yeah.
I I guess maybe because of the work I do. So people have a tendency to want to do that, you know, like they would I don't know maybe social settings just dominate the whole conversation to to to talk about I mean even maybe like there's a big group right of but they're like so focused on their problem and they use they want to feel better so they just use the whole group like maybe to gain sympathy to gain gain attention to gain whatever and Yeah. So they use in that sense they're also using people as
drug right to feel good. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess in this day and age social media does that. Yeah. Yeah. I guess all the eyeballs does something to the person who posted whatever. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The likes and the interaction. Yeah. M there was a it's like approval, you know. It's like oh people like my post and yeah it it made a difference to the point where they they commented. Yeah. Or even shared it or whatever. And I think people are so addicted to these sort of like they they want approval right from people. They
want people to give them sympathy. Yeah. Or to ask, "Hey, what happened to you? How are you?" Or they want that kind of Yeah. attention, some acknowledgement. Yeah. Of what they're going through. Yeah. I just find that a bit for me, I find it very questionable. I don't know. Okay. For me, I really dislike cryptic posts. Okay. But if you tell me not cryptically but factually, you know, I had a meltdown, la, you know, I think that's quite actually quite brave. Yeah. And then, you know, people will know, okay, you're you're at me seeking help.
You're trying to heal. Um, yeah, I'll encourage you. And I think that's great. And if you need the encouragement of your friends at this time, no one's going to say, "Yeah, you're being vain or anything." Truly, you would need it, right? Yeah. But it's the cryptic ones. Yes. It's like, are you so, you know, as they say, like, what is this drama you're trying to roll out? You know what I mean? like are you really hurting or you are just trying to hurt someone else with it that we don't know of or we're trying to
guess who it is um by getting people on your side or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We use people as drugs. We use if we want people to know our situation, we just tell them why. Correct. Yeah. And honestly in that kind of situation, people who are close to you, whom you want to care for you and your situation, would already have been told by you somehow. Yeah. Through a a one-on-one text. Yeah. Yeah. Not posted on social media. Your friends shouldn't find that out on social media, right? It's also not very nice. Yeah. Uh Yeah.
Yeah. So, no, obviously there's an agenda when people post cryptic post like that. Yes. Yeah. There's always an agenda. Yeah. Yeah. Um, just spell it out, right? You know, Yeah. I mean, if it's a good thing uh and you're being cheeky by being cryptic, that's fine. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm going to reveal this amazing thing that I've done. I think that's fine. Yeah. because no one's going to worry about you. You know, the cap ones will like whatever, but your your friends and people who are like neutral, they like, "Oh, okay, whatever. Let's just watch."
But you make people worry. I mean, some people are silly enough to actually like get hooked into it and like, "What happened to you?" Oh, no. This is terrible. Call me. I'm calling. Why don't you answer? Yeah, I've seen those comments too. It's like quite ridiculous. Yeah, I think sometimes these sort of things, right? Um there was this there was this person that I knew, she she killed herself actually. Oh, she was and she timed her social media post to come out after she killed herself. So even, you know, at death, they're using people as
drugs, which is so bizarre. I know. Yeah. twisted uh very pleasure, right? Yeah. Very very twisted. And because I know how this person operates, right? And and I did share with someone. I said, you know, this person is so full of pride. And even if she had second thoughts, you know, before she she jumped off the building, she would do it because her post was already timed. She's that kind, you know, that is so the horror of it. Yeah. And and I and so you know we wanted to make sure that did she really do
it or not. So someone go and check I don't know where they go and check. I think you can uh there is some uh some government agency I think that you can see who passed on recently and someone went to check and true enough. Yeah. Which is very sad you know and I and obviously this person needed help when at home. But I think sometimes as much as people we want to help, you can't help people who who don't want the help, who don't even see that there. Absolutely. Yeah. In the end, it's their decision.
So, yes. Don't beat yourself up. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do. Yeah. Yeah. Really nothing. Correct. And I also feel people who are at that point that their minds are not uh stable anymore. Their sense of reality is totally walked. So they've crossed the line. Yeah. It's quite inevitable. Very sad. Yeah. Yeah. But the way she writes, right, and all her post has always been like the same type of flavor for years. It's just very strange, very odd. Yeah. which is quite sad. Yeah, I mean I feel sad for her family of course who
have to go through that is I think families who are that are plagued by suicide um very very wounded it's it's it's very hard yeah it's not like any other death sickness accident even murder you know it's like that person didn't want to die so you know you can just Yeah. At least have that. Yeah. But when it's a suicide, it's like Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible, right? You start to I think the mind tripping just gets to you like, "Oh, was there more I could have done?" Right. You know, the the survival survival guilt, right?
Yeah. Is so Yeah. can really uh wound all these family members down the line. Yeah. Yeah. Dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. So, talking about people who use people as drugs, um I've I've kind of like stopped seeing people who I feel that they use me as a drug. M um I don't socialize with them that much or not at all even you know maybe in fact for the last maybe year where I just decide no that's not how I want my energy to be spent and and if I do meet the same people I will not I'll
keep the the boundary is very very clear right I'll keep the conversation topic uh at the level where it doesn't go in that direction where I know that they're going to, you know, sucking the life out of you. Yeah. Taking all the air in the room as they say, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, I would I'll leave early. I would, you know, cut things off or I will make it very clear like, okay, this this conversation is not, you know, I'm I'm going this conversation is just getting odd or getting strange. Yeah. Right. And
I would go and so I guess maybe is this this thing in my mind, right? Um that if you want to help people then your help has to be unconditional. So I think growing up with that has made me too available to some people. Um as much as I always teach people about boundaries but you you know you get sucked in. You get sucked in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um then then there are people who when they are when they get together right they are really like they become very not nice to other people. Yeah.
It's like they feed off each other's monsters. It's very strange. Yeah. But separately apart they actually play very decent to be with. Yeah. It's almost like they when they're together, it c something catches fire. Yeah. Like there's air and then there's Yeah. The spark, right? Yeah. And then it just starts burning in a bad way. Yes. Yes. I'm very scared of people like that. Yeah. Because you're not just dealing with one person. It's like a whole entity, you know, like a chemical entity. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a third thing, right? Yeah. It's very scary. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's very common in group dynamics and the bigger the group the worse it gets you know where maybe maybe group dynamics like they come together because they have that one thing in common whatever it may be right and that becomes like this monster I mean if it's a good thing that brings people together okay fine a very healthy ordered thing um but sometimes within the group there are just individuals that have something a bit I don't know offkilter that they enjoy. Yeah. And then you know they just encourage each other. Yes. To
Yes. Be more and more out out there. Yeah. Yeah. I find that very scary. Yeah. Do you think this is more common in men or women? The recklessness bit that recklessness characteristic makes me think men more men women are still somehow you know a bit more conservative and um walk on the safer side. Yeah. Rather than on the I don't know. Yeah. I think like like I dare you to do this. Okay. I dare you. Okay. Let's do it. You know that kind of scary thing. Yeah. I guess when they are younger the daring thing
I dare you to do this is very common. I remember you know with our friends right when we were out partying when we were much much younger. Um one of our friends would always dare someone to oh I dare you to go and buy the guy a drink. And and this is like in the 80s 90s right? Yeah, late 80s, early 90s where people do that and you know and it was very common at that time that I guess it became very normalized where you like oh I dare you to go go up to this
guy to say hi you know sort of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Then the Yeah. Then you know if it turns out good fine you know but if it doesn't the guy turns out to be a creep or whatever then Oh good luck to you. Yeah. So yeah, this sort of behavior I guess is maybe it's different in different life stages. Yeah. But there are certain behavior where you mention like when they get together the bad behavior that one I don't think it's a different type of bad behavior as you get older. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. You don't actually do anything. It's It's I think a lot of gossiping. Yes. Yeah. The the Yeah. Like once my gossip partner is there Oh, I'm feeding off her energy, right? Her gossip energy and she beats off mine and then we we want we both are willing to play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. I do notice that at uh midlife it tends to be more Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've also noticed that some people are nicer when their so-called buddy is not around, right? They're nicer. They're pleasant. But once that extra person
comes into the picture, they become really quite nasty. Like twins, right? Yes. Like Yeah. When they are apart, it's different when they're together and if they're naughty twins. Yeah. I can imagine how bad it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a kind of drug. It's like having two of me. It's like, wow. Imagine having two of you. The things you could do, right? You feel invincible, isn't it? Yeah. It's like I stay at home and do this, you go out and do that, you know, then we'll have the whole world to ourselves because we dominate and
conquer the world, right? Yeah. I think Yeah, I think Okay, if we want to use the word drug, right, it can go both ways. It can be a good drug, it can be a bad drug, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um can be a calming drug. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Clarity drug or a truth serum. Yeah. Yeah. Where you cannot lie, you know, or get tranquilized. Yeah. Fall asleep. I think we can totally use people as drugs. And I think sometimes it's the what the person represents. Sometimes a person can be we perceive this person as
something and I've noticed that people often want to be associated with a type of person, right? Whether they're well off, they're famous, they're rich. Sure. And they tend to behave differently and they use these people as maybe drugs as well. Yeah. But they call it supplement like you know supplements. Yeah. Yeah. Themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And you may call it friendship when it's not and when you see like oh my god you know like why are they behaving like this like different it's like codependence is that okay I really appreciate that uh this particular smalish group
I'm a part of and we have a group chat um that majority of the members now refuse to gossip. Oh, that's and they shut it down. I I really love it. I mean, I don't even have to say anything. Someone else will shut it down. Yeah. Yeah. So, one person, this particular one person always needs to either comment or complain. If it happened to her, it's a complaint. If it's like uh something that someone else experience is a command that she will throw out there hoping that you know we will all join in. Yeah. So
she threw out this com complain but in the on the pretext the tone was very self-pitting and like um I don't understand why this happened to me kind of tone. But everyone was like wise to know that you're just fishing for a gossip session, you know, on the pretext of feeling hurt. Yeah. Cuz other people other people not in the chat is involved in the story. They know the person that she's complaining about or or being sad that she was hurt by. Uh we all know this other person. Yeah. but we were not involved in
this thing that happened. Um, and she just threw it out like, "Why do you think you know she did that to me?" Yeah. Like no reply. Oh no. Then I think someone else after a time it was either me or someone else that asked like something totally different like hey so are we going to something else? Yeah. Then much much much later um someone else which I thought shouldn't have just said oh um maybe she was having a bad day. Uh just say a prayer for her. I just thought that you don't even need to
say that because I don't think that person was having a bad day. I think it was imagined, you know, that I feel that that poor person is like being prayed over for nothing in that sense, you know, like she didn't do anything wrong actually. I think Yeah. Yeah. Then there was another same person threw out something u but about something that not didn't happen to her happened to someone else like she felt sorry for that person but it was again fishing for a gossip then someone else just said change topic please like yeah let's not
even go there and I was like oh thank god like I'm so glad like you know there are people who also don't enjoy this gossiping thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And these are people who are not fond of the people being talked about. So kudos to them. It's not even like I'm defending my friend or anything or I don't really know this person. It's like they also don't like these people. But they just don't want to go there cuz in the end nothing good comes out of it. Yeah. Yeah. What what for? Nobody wins and Yeah.
Nothing good happens. Yeah. But how to gossip on a group chat? Oh, very easy. What? You say you say something about someone that I that you know I also am not fond of. Very easy. Especially when you know that the rest of us don't really care for this person. Oh man, you'll catch fire. Yeah. It's like dry leaves on a hot day. Yeah, if it's a neutral Yeah. Maybe it's very hard. Yeah. But when it's people you also don't like. Yeah. It's this tendency to like add on app. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. We refuse to
be used as drugs. Yes. Good idea. Yeah. I don't think I'm very active in group chats. I mean other than just for my business networking one line two lines but nothing more formal those are more formal chats right more formal and then with friends certain groups we are always talking about what's happening in the world like we share current affairs information or good videos or yeah so rarely I mean I don't think Yeah, I've ever Okay, I maybe I wouldn't call it gossip, but more like dropping a funny line by encounter with someone that we
all know, but that's it. You know, that there's no going on about it, you know, sort of thing. I think um in terms of using people as drugs, I think a lot of married couples do that, right? Like to each other to each other. They um and and you know sometimes not in a good way like they become the relationship just is not healthy and they just feed off each other's neurosis or each other's um whatever right that's going on within their own inner dynamics and they just use each other back and forth like ping
pong I know and I think especially in midlife we we see this far more often but then because it's very normalized by society yeah I've witnessed this you know where like a husband will put the wife down to me it's very obvious but everybody is like it's very normal for the husband to tell the wife off in public or the wife telling the husband off right it's like it's quite Asian Yeah. Everybody treats it like very normal, but I just don't think Yeah. I don't think this should be done in public, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
I I've witnessed it um among strangers, people I don't know, like at a traffic light. Yeah. Um this was like ages ago when I was when I could still run and it was red light, so had to press the thing, right? Then I was like jogging on the spot. Then this couple, Asian couple come uh next to me and no actually I can't remember what happened. I came I came after they were they were there first then I came. I was like how come still not like never changed no like I look oh never pressed.
So I just pressed and then the wife she was so embarrassed that she had been they had been standing there for quite a while and they didn't press. She turned around, she whacked the husband like that and she said, "Why you never press like?" She was just triggered by that embarrassment. I don't I just I just press I mean if you if you didn't press, you didn't press. It's okay. Yeah. Big deal. We forget all the time, you know. And I'm because I'm jogging. I like want to get going, right? Yeah. What if I got
right, you know? I was like, "What is going on?" Then she said, "Why you never press?" Then he went like like he was so embarrassed that she did that. Oh dear. Yeah. Oh my gosh. If they can do that in public, can you imagine what they do in private? Yeah. Like why did you have to do that? Yeah. Yeah. You didn't even have to say anything. You know, maybe you just came. I don't know. Like two seconds. I just laugh about it. Yeah. Yeah. So dumb. We standing for so long, we didn't press. Correct. I
mean, it can be sometimes like the list, right? We just standing there assuming that someone else pressed or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think husband and wives, if they can use each other in a good way as as good drugs, they will probably laugh about it. Like taking the examples at you, right? It's like, h, you know, we're whatever, right? minded or laugh about it. Then you the relationship is just nice, you know, you know, like they can have a good accepting and yeah, forgiving and yeah, kind of humor in situations, right? Yes. Yes. Um
but then yeah, that's a good example of a bad drug. Yeah. But yeah, like what you said is very Asian and it's very common. So much so that they treat each other like their children. Children. Okay. Okay. You know like if the so so the wife becomes the mother. Yeah. Forcing the husband to be the child or the husband becomes the father forcing the wife to become the daughter. It's so common. Or it could be a complete like they're fighting for power. Each one wants to be the parent and trying to thumb the other one
down and our Yeah. And you just think why are you even married to each other? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is a very bad uh Yeah. That's a very bad sign when there's power struggle I feel in a marriage. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very bad sign. But then, you know, when they're in it, they don't they think it's normal. They think that it's uh yeah, but relationships got ups and downs, so it's okay. But no, the way you communicate each other, right? You know that something is so bad that it's so dysfunctional. They they don't even
know it is dysfunctional. It's it's systemic actually. It's not like Yeah. Sometimes bad things happen. No, it's not that. It's Yeah. It's ingrained in the relationship, the dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think people find it hard to leave because because of this, right, it's been normalized. So they they don't seek help. They don't think there's anything they can do, especially at midlife. Like, oh, we're already so old and what's the point? you know, a lot of these kind of um excuses. Then they're just miserable for the rest of their lives. The end. Yeah.
And they call it love. No, it's just a drug. Maybe they feel, you know, you are so awful, but I still love you. Am I not wonderful that I'm still sticking by you even though you're so like so many faults? Yeah. And I don't even like you sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. But it's true what you say. They think that it's normal that it's supposed to be like that. What you know when you're married for 20, 30 years, it's like that. No, I don't believe it's like that. It's not supposed to be like that. Yeah.
It's not supposed to be like that. Yeah. You're supposed to when you're with someone for so long, you're supposed to become healthier and healthier if you are growing, right? You don't become worse and worse. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I think the regression is quite scary. Yes. You're supposed to be able to dance better together, right? Initially, it's awkward and difficult, but Yeah. Yeah. You learn to do it beautifully. Yeah. As you grow older together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I also hear this comment quite a bit like uh wives will say oh um anyway we don't
we we are quite happy when our husbands have to travel for business because yeah we don't want to see them so often. I I really dislike hearing that. M so one of my friends said that to me over lunch. Um so I'm quite happy you know when my husband travels cuz yeah I have time to myself the house to myself blah blah blah. And I and I just looked at her and I said tell that to the widows. It just came out. I I was like you really don't know what you're saying and that's awful.
Yeah. awful on so many levels. Yeah. And I have so many widow friends who are so still sorrowing. A part of them is still sorry. Yeah. And I I feel very sad for them. Yeah. So when people who have their husbands or wives around and who say that it's usually the wife who will say it, okay, always say, "Wow, you really don't you really do not wish that for yourself." Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's also a sign, right? There's something not right already in the relationship, but they think it's normal. That's just very, very dysfunctional. I
think maybe they never actually got to a level of their relationship where I think it's quite superficial, you know, the marriage. Yeah. Yeah. Funny as it sounds, a marriage can be superficial. Yeah, I think it happens a lot. If you just look around you, you observe the married friends that you have, you know, the the whether there is depth or not or whether it's just so superficial like they have done their due diligence, right? They've done the they provided for their home, then there's nothing already. then the a part of your I feel a part
of your spirit will feel like a sense of dissatisfaction then you will always be very unhappy with that person right with your spouse because and but you don't know why and I think because there is a lack of internal I think intimacy not physical emotional and intellectual intimacy when that is missing right your inner spirit I feel will be so dissatisfied and you're not going to Yeah. And that's why, you know, people will pick on their spouse like, oh, you know, they they can't see beyond. Yeah. It's it's hard. I think when people don't grow
together, I think that's the hardest. That's one of the hardest. Yeah. In in relationships, you can't it's very hard to survive a marriage or relationship where one doesn't want to grow. It's very difficult. Yeah. Maybe they they're just people who cannot go deeper than that also. They just don't have the capacity. Yeah. I I I believe there are people like that. Yeah. I mean they could be you know high functioning seem very normal and successful but they just don't have the capacity internally interiorly to go deep in connections with spouse or other people. Yeah that
is most people in the world isn't it? Maybe that's why we're always hearing the all these same comments. I think so. I think but you know it's so lovely to see uh spouses whom you know have depth. Yes. And they they are like the expert champion dancers of the world you know. Yeah. The ones that can spin around and Yeah. It it's just very inspiring and I love to observe people like that. Yeah. Yeah. Then you also have those who pretend to have to have depth. who are always talking about how they how well they
treat their spouse, how where they take their spouse, where they go. But it's all again very superficial, right? I mean, it's like what you do. Yes. Whether you're emotional and intellectual intimacy is there is a different thing. Correct. Yes. It's doing, not being. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing together. Doing things together, not being together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's it's the doing that distracts you from focusing on being together. Yes. Right. Yeah. And maybe you're doing that because you don't want to deal with the just being together because maybe when you don't do anything, it doesn't
work. Yeah. You don't like the person maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. thinking about this like how I cannot imagine how people can carry on to use their life partner as a drug and to just go through life that way and not being able to be truly at peace or be happy and and be okay with that like to live that way for the rest of their lives. I also feel some mostly women they depend a lot on their husbands. Yeah, that's true. By right they actually don't need to. They are fully capable of taking care of
themselves but for whatever reason the marriage has become like that where the husband is the one kind of taking care of everything. You know whether the husband works that the the wife doesn't or the husband is the one if they work together the lead in that uh partnership and is the always the one organizing things and driving them around you know that kind of thing. Yeah, I know many women like that and I think they they they they've been loud into that head space where ah this is so comfortable, you know. I don't have to
make decisions. I don't have to take care of things. My husband does everything including cleaning the house. Yeah. You know, and what if one day your husband is not there? Exactly. And that could well happen, right? Life is unpredictable. Yeah. Yeah. So to me that kind of drug is very scary cuz once husband is not there, you're going to suffer a lot. Yeah. But they like it. They actually like it because life is easy. Yeah. I literally don't have to do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this it's like a it's like a slow cooker,
you know. something is brewing underneath and the day will come when you so I'm okay depends on the dynamics of the husband wife relationship right sometimes the husband likes to have control over everything because then it gives him control over the wife and some men enjoy that right complete control over the wife and the wife is like okay I'm I'm happy not being in charge you control everything so okay you know maybe dysfunctional but then they're happy doing that fine but I wanted to say share something about a friend recently who told me that his
wife used to be very dependent on him and then uh so he he said it's quite annoying so he's been uh teaching her to do certain things so that she doesn't need him to do certain things so I said okay that that's good I said so what is she um how how is she taking it you you know, and she said, "Oh, she just do her own thing." Then I said, "Okay, but you need to watch for the signs." When a woman is very happy not needing you, you must watch what's the next step after
that. Yeah. You know where you know when some in relationships, right? Sometimes if the dynamic shifts and then nobody's talking about it, then they start drifting. like they didn't have a conversation as to how okay so I'm teaching you to be more independent you can do things by yourself like if you have a proper conversation and you allow things to just evolve in a natural way that's okay but if this is you saying I don't want to help you so much because then you rely on me so much and she says okay I feel okay
I think there's something brewing so I told him I said do you need to ask more questions, you know, like to she said, "Oh, but I'm very happy. I'm at peace now. I see her." But is she very different. I guess it depends on what they have. They become independent of. Yeah. I mean, it's teaching them certain things like life skills. Yeah. Changing the car tire or whatever. When there's a blackout, what do you do? Which switches to turn on? Yeah. I think those are great. Um, but you do not teach her how to spend
uh how to deal with your constant absence. Yeah. Okay. Like because you want to be constantly absent. Yeah. Cuz you you want to be with your friends to do certain things. Dangerous. Yeah. Yes. Yes. In that sense. Yes. Because she will like Okay. People are very adaptable. Yeah. And they will find replacements for how to spend their time. Exactly. Happily. Yeah. And if you're at midlife Yeah. And you you actually when you reach midlife, right, you you have in a sense more independence because your kids are already grown. You are not obligated to stay. The
chances of wives walking out is very high. Yeah. Very common, right? I mean, a lot of wives, they leave at midlife. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not we're not condoning the uh extramarital affairs or just walking out or whatever. Yeah. But it is human nature. Yes. Yeah. You do not Yeah. Abs absentism is not something to be trifled with. Yeah. Because Yeah. And don't think you're being smart by oh introducing her to some new hobby or you know getting her a dog or whatever a cat. It some someone somewhere something will replace you for life. Yeah.
Yeah. People turn to different drugs. Yes. It's like there's so many out there. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Have you had an experience where someone like very very clearly use you as a drug and how did you deal with it? I think I do. Did I tell you about I think I did tell you about this friend of mine was talking at me. Um I yeah whenever lately whenever I have lunch with Oh yes friend. Yeah I really think that she meets me as just an a passive audience a spectator in the drama of her life.
Um and she's so energized when she talks at me. She's high. She's almost like you could describe her as high, high functioning high. Yeah. So, if that's not using me as some sort of oxygen tank or vitamin B12 shop, I don't know what that is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I get so tired and exhausted just paying attention to things I do not even want to hear about. Funny, right? M when you have friends like that and then in their minds they consider you a good friend. Yeah. Which then made me think I know everything
about you cuz you you keep spilling your guts but you know nothing about me. You know it's that kind of feeling and you know this is not a correct friendship and I'm just Yeah. Yeah. And you know it's not only about things about you about me. It's also how do I feel about certain things you know things that happening in the world or just situations in life like hey what what's your opinion you don't know all these things and if you don't know all these things then you don't know me yeah and I feel that
friends like that they don't bother to want to know your point of view yeah they just want you to know what's going on in their lives Yes. Uh they just want to pour everything out and then you become the ambivalent friend. Yes. Sadly, you don't want to be, you know, but how how how to battle this wall? It's like a wall, you know. Yeah. Yeah. For people like that, I just don't see them so much or I just don't see them at all. Yeah. Yeah. um when necessary just text. Um if not I just don't
I don't bother anymore. You know, like when I was younger, I used to think, okay, you know, we've known each other for a long time. Let's maintain the friendship. But then I think about, oh, but every time I'm so exhausted, you know, after seeing this person, I'm just so exhausted then. Yeah. You just Yeah. And I told this to someone else, a mutual friend, and this mutual friend looked at me and said, That's why I don't want to meet her. It I have felt this for so long. She said I She said, "You mean you
just realize this about her?" And I said, "Yeah, it didn't really manifest for me till lately." She said, "Oh, I don't know. I saw that like a long long time ago, so I just couldn't take it." She said, "Yeah." Wow. Yeah. So, I was like, "Well, okay. I'm definitely not imagining it. Yeah. Do you think it's because she's more comfortable with you now then that's why it's becoming like this or you think I mean this this friend this friend experienced this thing longer than you? So m but I'm actually closer to this exhausting person than
the other friend. Oh, okay. Is to this to her. Yeah. Hi. Yeah. Um they're not very close, but there were occasions where we met up together. Uh the three of us. Yeah. So maybe for me when there's one more person, I don't feel it so much. cuz it's shared. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of the stuff that were coming out from her were quite new. Yeah. So I was quite curious and, you know, quite gobbmacked by all the drama, you know, in her life. So maybe it was fine because I was taking it all in
and listening and processing it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But now it's become a broken record almost like a glitch. A brain glitch that Yeah. It just keeps coming in the same stories or similar stories with slightly different people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think with people like this, right, because they are so they're like in a trance, right? They're just talking about they don't even read your body language or your facial expressions like you're not interested. Obviously not interested anymore. They still go on. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. You can be yawning and they
still don't get it. Yeah. Correct. Or glazed over already, you know, and you're not even saying anything. Yeah. Or maybe if you make a comment that clearly is telling that person stop it, you know, or Yeah. but they still go on. So I think it might be a mental disorder of sorts, a compulsion. Could be. They just need to get it out of their system. But if the story keeps repeating, then it's just like what's going on in there? You know, you correct? Like, don't you remember what you tell people? I do. Yeah, more or
less I do. You know, if not, at least it's familiar. Like, I think I might have told you that kind of thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I've had this experience once where this person just go on and on and I just and we were sharing a cat together and I was like, "Oh my god, please hurry up." You know, like I cannot take this anymore. just wants to scream out. Do a dangerous lifethreatening thing. Yes. Like enough, you know, and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It makes me wonder what what is it
about these conversations that make us feel so like we cannot sit with it that we need to like we want to jump out of a moving car like what what is this what is it about it I've been thinking about this for a while because I suffer through it right weekly I mean listening to my father that's one and then with people right like who like in this person you know sharing a cap and I've been thinking what is it that they are saying I mean they're not saying anything horrible they are justing but what
is it that makes our skin crawl or makes us want to jam out of our bodies what is it you know okay I have a theory for me very maybe it's a very personal thing it's almost this denial of your existence there or your your needs there as a friend as a companion sharing the cat. It's just this this total lack of awareness and respect even for your being. That's how I'm I feel every time this happens. It's like I'm not there now. M I am I am not even a person that you're acknowledging. M
I don't know what I am. Yeah. It's like you're just throwing it out there into the wide world like you're screaming at the sea or something. The ocean. Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel like a person treated like a person. That's what gets to me. Yeah. I feel very disregulated. Like I my whole nervous system just like it makes my skin crawl. Yeah, it's funny. You know that it's sensation becomes very it's so fictick, right? You know the word pic. Yeah, I know that word. But it's not quite that. It's more like I want to jump
out of my body. Literally that kind of feeling like I don't want to be there. Yeah. Like your your prisoner. Yes. Help hostage to this conversation. Yes. Kidnappers. Yeah. These are the kidnappers. Yeah. And I obviously don't have Stockholm syndrome. So yeah, it's so uncomfortable. Yes. There's that, too. That feeling of being taken hostage and with you feel so helpless you cannot escape, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote an article about long- winded people basically because my group of um my masterminding group, the people when we first started was so long-winded that I literally
want to jump out and leave the room, right? I'm like, stop. So, I wrote an article about long-windedness, about how I feel I'm I'm held hostage. And then I came up with a better way to re you know to manage the whole group like you must fill in this form and fill in what you're gonna talk about you and your for me that's like structure and boundaries right so you you write what you're going to talk about and then I'll give you a limited time yeah we move on sorry you got to take this offline
with that person move on I cannot like people keep repeating themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the repeating. Yes. It's the belaboring the same point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not new information most of the time. Yeah. I think people do that because they need to convince themselves more than us listening. They they they want to believe that believe what they're saying. So they keep repeating it. to confirm their beliefs. Yeah, that's one. Or either that or early onset of dementia. That could be true because I've heard the same things too. Yeah, some things are new but
similar situations and then there will be like old information dragged out for comparison. For comparison. Yeah. It's like no, not only do I have to deal with this, then there's the old stuff that's being brought back out like, uh, no, no, no. You have to listen to it again. Correct. And even when you try to switch the conversation, in the end, that person will always find a way to bring it back to her or him. Yeah. That's very rude, I think. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I think we've had encounters with mutual friends, right? Yes. On that.
Yeah. It's tiring. It's But but with a group, it's not so bad. You know, you can just eat. You can just keep quiet and just Yeah. But when it's oneon-one Yeah. You can't ignore that person, right? Yeah. Continue to eat. Correct. You know, there was a period of time in my life when I realized why I drink so much with this certain group of people cuz I don't want to listen to them. I realized after that, oh my god, that's what I'm doing. I'm just drowning it out. I don't want to listen. I don't blame
you. Yeah. No, really. And I think that's very true for many people. M yeah they'd rather just because you are in a different state of mind when you drink you know you everything is okay. Yeah I mean my experience with alcohol is that everyone just seems nicer and just easier to talk to and to bear. Yeah. And I am I become friendlier too. That's the drug that happens when you're being used as a drug you know. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. There's always repercussions, right? Yes. Yes. I remember this occasion very very distinctly and this was
like very long time ago and I'm uh I'm supposed to go for dinner with this group and my first thought was I wonder if they have alcohol and then I thought to myself why did I think that like why did I and I realized oh there are these two people in the group that will go on talking and I cannot take it. Yeah. And then after that I stopped going. having meals. Yeah. And it it's more real than we realize. You know, this I hope there's alcohol really is no joke. I mean, we laugh about
it, you know, because we don't drink and we just think it's funny and like so extreme, but it's very real for many people. Very poor thing. I just feel very sorry for that. Yeah. Like if you have to drink to bear my company, let's not meet. M I don't want to do that to you. Yeah. I mean, it's so awful. Exactly. Exactly. Or I mean, for for those of us who don't drink, we're like, "Oh, I hope the food is good." You know, at least you can like stuff our faces and enjoy the food. Yeah.
But I'm still an occasional drinker. I drink not to drown people out. I used to. I used to but you know now I just occasionally just enjoy you know and then when you say some people poor thing they have no choice but to drink like those who drink with their family. Oh cuz they can't bear their families. Yeah. I think that's quite sad. That's quite sad. It's quite common. So sad. Yeah. Yeah. And there just some people who they don't feel they can perform socially without alcohol. That's true. Yeah. No matter who the what company
and they can be very nice people whom they are spending time with they just cannot because they feel it's it's me. It's not you. I I just will be not right. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they suffer from some form of anxiety. Yes. Yes. And I think that's very very sad. Yeah, it's it's almost like I feel like it's like me when I wake up in the morning and I feel like oh the sniffles are coming on. I need my tail fast. I cannot function otherwise. Yeah, it's almost like that. Oh, I I have to tell you,
uh, one of my church friends, I bumped into her yesterday and she said, "Oh, I love watching your She only watches the snippets, you know, and she says, "You've outed me so many times." She said, "Oh, we we didn't talk about her." Yeah. But she said, "You know this thing about wives giving excuses that the husband don't want and la." She said, "Wow, I really cracked up." And I said, "That's me." Yeah. But it was very nice that she was so open about And then she said, "You are really like just picking up the phone
and just talking to each other." No, like that, you know. That's why it's very natural. Yeah. And free flowing actually. Yeah. I like that. The fact that it's like that. That's nice. Yes. Nice to get this kind of feedback. Correct. Correct. Yeah.
