Joe Rogan Experience #2215 - Graham Hancock

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day good to see you sir what's happening good to see you too Joe I watched uh episode one and I'm into episode two of your new season uh looks fantastic looks awesome fantastic information but before we do anything I think we should probably address what we know now about the debate that you had with Flint dible So that was the last time we were here um it was I I appreciate that he came on and I thought

it was going to be an interesting discussion but it turned out he played fast and loose with the truth um and and distorted quite a bit of information that um were some key points that you had discussed one of them being uh the amount of shipwrecks that were discovered he greatly inflated the amount of shipwrecks that have been Discovered and then you released a video uh today yeah um that went over a lot of this stuff and one of the things it went over is the oldest shipwreck that we are currently available it's about 4,000

years old about 6,000 6,000 the docos ship right but there's nothing left of the ship no and this is what's important that you know what he was trying to say was that it would be preserved yeah by the cold water that turns out to not be the truth at all and that these ships That are 6,000 years old there's nothing left of the actual boat itself the only thing that's left is pottery and coins and things of the like and especially when you consider the possibility of ships having gone through a cataclysm not but there's

a there's a more Central Point than that which which really needed to be brought up by the archaeologist in this which is that which is that archaeology universally accepts that human beings were seaf Farers as much as 50,000 years ago and I I put the evidence on this into the into the video it's not even in dispute like the island of Cyprus the nearest Turkish Coast is about 60 km from there uh it's always been surrounded by huge deeps it's always been an island even at the peak of the sea sea level lowest sea level

during the Ice Age Cypress was always an island and yet there's evidence now that it was settled 14,000 years ago Certainly 14,000 to 12,500 years ago it was settled in other words during the Ice Age and and these were large planned migrations when you're going to migrate to an island you can't just go two or three people by accident because you become extinct you have to bring in quite a large population and they reckoned that populations of a thousand or so were being brought across that water across the ocean across the Mediterranean Sea to Cyprus

near the end Of the last ice age but not a single ship has survived from to to to testify to that same with Australia 50,000 years ago human beings got there and even at at the lowest sea level they would have had to cross about 90 km of Open Water uh and in large numbers and again no ships have been found to testify to that yet archaeologists accept that they got there by ship so so to say that we haven't found any ships uh from from the Ice Age is not really evidence about Anything and

if we're finding the oldest ships that we we currently are aware of which is as you said about 6,000 years ago if you tack on another 6,000 years of Decay on top of that what are the odds you're going to find anything I think the odds are very very low now if we had that evidence and that information when we were confronting Flint that would have been a very different conversation totally but the the arrogance in which he distributed That fake information was uh it's disturbing it sucks when people just want to win yeah and

they don't want to get to the truth it does and the truth is kind it's very fascinating another thing that was very fascinating that he discussed uh I didn't watch your whole video but it was about seeds um I asked the question there's there's a very distinct um noticeable difference between domestic seeds and seeds that are wild and the difference is the seeds That are wild they break off easier because it it makes sense that it would uh help them Prosper it would help them be able to spread the seed if it broke off the

plant easier and so they can recognize that and then when they start using large scale agriculture the seeds become more robust and stick to the to the plant because it makes sense that it would if you're going to harvest all the plants and then take the seeds off of that for the the plant to prosper you Would want the the seeds to be more robust so there's these changes and I said have they ever noticed a a domesticated seed going back and having the characteristics of a wild seed he said no yeah but that's not

true either that's not true either no it's not it's it's not true and and the whole notion of the of the origins of Agriculture I think archaeologist got a great deal more work to do on that often I'm misrepresented as saying that survivors Of my supposed Lost Civilization um would have would have brought crops with them I I think that's most unlikely in a cataclysmic situation what they brought with them was the knowledge that crops can be domesticated and it's precisely during the younger dras that we see that shift from undomestic at to domesticated crops

in the archaeological record and what I'm suggesting is that these were people who had already conquered that problem They'd already solved that problem they knew it could be done uh and they brought that knowledge with them and shared that shared that knowledge with the people that they took Refuge a months because I don't think we're looking at a a mass migration I think we're looking at a few survivors who are taking Refuge after a global cataclysm you know it's just very unfortunate when you have a debate and and uh one person is an expert and

They're not they're not truthful and it's it just I think it's very bad I think it's very bad for archaeology it is because it reinforces all the things that you've been saying it it it does uh I mean to be honest I felt beaten up after that after that debate but looking back in in in retrospect on on on the whole thing I think it actually it actually makes the point that we have a very arrogant very controlling discipline in archaeology which has Established a narrative about the which will fight tooth and nail to maintain

that narrative including using dirty tricks and I I think instead of you know smearing people who talk about the possibility of A Lost Civilization or people who even talk about aliens I think of in instead of smearing them archaeology should understand why people are asking those questions people are asking those questions because they're not satisfied with what Archaeology is Offering it's not it's not providing a nurturing satisfying resolution to many of the problems that that that come from the past and that's what drives me is is is curiosity about anomalies in the past I'm often

misrepresented as saying that somehow I've proved that A Lost Civilization existed and and I don't claim to have proved that what I do say is join me on this journey there are mysteries in the past let's see if they're explained by archaeology or if They're not explained and I found quite a number that are not explained by archaeology and that's particularly to do with uh astronomical alignments with Traditions that are shared all around the world it's to do with it's to do with things that archaeologist by and large don't study this episode of The Joe

Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty you know when a new Call of Duty drops everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of Gameplay I get it life is busy but sometimes you just need Hey Joe it's the replacer yeah no you hey I'm going to take it from here so you can enjoy some Call of Duty Black Ops 6 great now listen up folks life can be chaotic but you shouldn't have to miss out on the latest Call of Duty just because you've got I don't know

responsibilities that's where I come in I will handle the boring stuff like work chores even podcast ads so you can dive Right into the fight Call of Duty Black Ops 6 is out October 25th so dive in because I've got your back remember I replace you blade it's not Simple Man the replacer always gets it done seriously though if you're hooked on Call of Duty this is your time to jump in head over to call of duty.com Black Ops 6 to get in the game Call of Duty Black Ops 6 pre-order now well it's also

one of the things that's fascinating is just even with Conventional archaeology the dates to keep getting p pushed further and further back further and further back and this is the one of the things the White Sands New Mexico stuff that you have on episode one that's right which is by the way White Sands have you been there no I haven't what an incredible amazing ethereal otherworldly place and Alam mordo is sitting right in the middle of that this is where they did the nuclear tests and the trinitite you Which was which was created there and

there's gypsum sand it's not normal it's just the most amazing amazing place and there yes they found human footprints dated back more than 20 23,000 years what do they think that environment was like 22,000 years ago well it would still have been like that it would have been gypsum Junes then in that in in that place otherwise Dunes they wouldn't have left the footprints I'm not exactly sure why the gypsum is there but there Is is that the same stuff they use for like gyps and board for construction I reckon so yeah wow yeah wow

it's a very fine very white sand and and it just goes on forever and the Junes are sculpted and massive and huge and with amazing time there so it looked incredible so they found Footprints there and these are absolutely human Footprints and there's not just a few of them there's thousands of them there's thousands of them and what's what's Amazing when you when you actually see the footprints is you can see the interactions between the human beings and and animals you can see that you can see that somebody is reacting to a giant sloth which

has suddenly turned around and the person who's behind it suddenly turns around as well there's there's Mammoth Footprints overlaying human Footprints and then human Footprints overlaying those uh and it goes down for meters under the ground so you have the You have a very deep stratification of these Impressions that have been left behind by our ancestors uh and and by animals that are now completely extinct mammoths and mastadons went went extinct during the younger ders but there are their Footprints from 23,000 years ago side by side with the footprints of human beings it's it's very

intimate to see to see a footprint to see those those five toes to see the heel to see sometimes a child walking beside a Mother that's that's there in the in the record as well it's quite it's quite something special and it it opens the door archaeology has been very reluctant to accept uh a much older peopling of the Americas than previously was held it was held for a long time that it was about 13,000 years ago they've abandoned that now they did cling on tooth and nail for decades but that's been abandoned it's accepted

that human beings came here long before 13,000 Years years ago and White Sands is one of the places which which provides just absolute definite irrefutable evidence of that that they were here 23,000 years ago but we don't know yet how long before that they were here this is this is this is part of the problem I often remember a site called the serti masteron site in San Diego um I went to see it's the exhibits are in the San Diego Natural History Museum and I talked with the expert There Dr Tom Demay uh and they

are convinced that they are looking at human traces there it was a butcher butchering of a Mastadon but the way the bones were broken and the marrow was extracted they don't see any other way that this could have been done except by human beings the thing is it's 130,000 years old not 23,000 years old not 13,000 years old but 130,000 years old and you know this opens the possibility that human beings have been in the Americas before they Were in Europe uh and that becomes uh that's crazy that's a door that opens all kinds of

possibilities which have been neglected I think the the prejudices the Prejudice that the Americas were only settled very late in the human story uh LED archaeology to not have their eye on the possibility of what happens if they were here earlier right and they tend not to and they tend not to look to that well what I was going to ask is as they're digging Deeper and deeper and they're finding these Footprints in Whit s New Mexico is there a possibility that they could dig deeper still and find things that are even older yes absolutely

how are they how do they know where to go it was found by accident um the the first Footprints were were were found completely by by accident and and they were found by indigenous local people uh who alerted the the National Park Service to to them um and and we have uh A number of indigenous spokespeople who who speak to the to the white sounds mystery and how it how it feels for them the emotional feeling of seeing the footprints of their ancestors 3,000 years ago the thing is that the dunes are constantly shifting and

sometimes the footprints will be covered up and then wind will reveal them again and they're fragile they can be easily destroyed and wiped off and in a way it's a miracle that they've that they've Survived but to see the stride of a mammoth you see the how far apart those huge foot pths are uh and and to realize this thing was alive this thing existed on this planet human beings interacted with it it's a very compelling evidence for an earlier s Amer there is some evidence that human beings came across the bearing land bridge oh

yeah so that probably means there was people already here and people came here from Asia almost certainly and and the way the Evidence is looking uh it's most likely that South America was settled first uh before North America was settled and that raises all kinds of questions and we've gone into this in season 2 of ancient apocalypse uh primarily to do with um the DNA evidence of a direct connection between the peoples of New Guinea and Australia and the peoples of certain tribes in South America and that's very ancient very old DNA evidence in South

America but also to do With archaeological sites like Monte Verde I did bring up the issue of Tom Dill the last time we were we were on when Flint was here and Tom Dill who found Monte Verde who excavated Monte Verde in in South America and realized that it was uh plus 14,000 years old and therefore a lot older than what was then accepted as the model for the first peoples in North America uh when he put that idea forward he was he was eviscerated by his colleagues in in Archaeology it took them a decade

to come round to accepting that actually he was right and there are many other SS in South America uh going back 30 plus thousand years they're all controversial because they conflict with an existing model but I think instead of clinging on to existing models I think it's one of the problems with archaeology uh is this territoriality this kind of control of the past I I think instead of doing that it would be it would be nicer if Archaeology was a little bit more welcoming a little bit more open to to new and different ideas unfortunately

that's just the thing when people are supposed experts in a subject and someone comes along that's also been studying it but from an untraditional perspective yeah people reject that I've come I've come to the point and I'm going to say something some strong words here I I get crazy get crazy I've I've come to the point where I I believe that some olist not all of them most actually this this problem is with a small number of archaeologist but they're extremely vocal um I think what we're looking at is a kind of abuse of power

uh archaeology archaeologists have a power they are the official spokespeople for the for the past and they use that power to slap down any point of view that doesn't agree with theirs so I think that there's there's an abuse of power there and at the same Time uh there's not a realiz ation that that's happening because the mindset that drives it is the feeling that members of the general public are unable to decide things for themselves this is the arrogance of archaeology that they feel that they have to tell people what to think about the

past and they underestimate the intelligence of the public and and the ability of the public to discern to make choices between different possibilities about the past They think that archaist seem to think that only one possibility of the past must be considered uh by the general public and that's their possibility it reminds me a lot of the heresy Hunters back in the 16th century you know the the people who disagreed with their point of view got burned at the stake well you don't get burned at the stake today but you can get lynched by a

mob of archaeologists well it's also the same thing that we saw during Co with Medical experts it disagreed with the narrative it's the same thing it is absolutely the same thing when you take esteemed professors and doctors and Physicians and you you cast them into this cook label because they disagree with the narrative that the medical establishment is pushing and then they turn out to be correct which most of them did MH you see the same patterns it's just power it's just power and people that take have their identity Wrapped up in them being the

ones that have access to the actual information yeah they don't want it to be distributed by some guy on Netflix that's right it's it's even though you've been probably studying it more than them certainly studying particular aspects of that's the other thing I noticed which was the sneering attitude to to towards me they talk about my you know my wife s taking tourist photos of the places that we've Been to well we've never been anywhere as tourists we haven't had a holiday for 20 years but but the working trips that we do are very intense

your wife's an amazing for dopher like who cares if she takes tourist photos the photos are incredible they're of real sites that are very pertinent and very interesting that's right the whole criticizing amazing photographs is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard like why would you criticize amazing photo Photogaphs of ruins that are perplexing yeah I know how could you how could you find an even an area where you want people to agree with you it's part of this desperate search to say we archaeologists know everything uh and and we must discredit uh in

any way we can anybody who has anything opposite to say it's an unfortunate human characteristic that it it happens in everything you see it in martial arts you see it in science you see it in Everything this Reliance on Experts I get it I would like the pilot of my plane to be an expert pilot I don't want him to be an amateur yeah but I don't think that archaeologists and aircraft Pilots are can be compared in that sense Archaeology is a much more interpretive discipline an aircraft pilot is not really interpreting situations that much

he knows what to do in such situations archaeologists are interpreting the past And yet they seem to get very upset by other interpretations of the past that are offered that don't that don't agree with theirs and this is this is the problem problem of expertise in our society yes expertise is very important it's incredibly useful but we should not place all our faith and trust in experts we need to liberate our own Consciousness and freely think about things and make our own decisions about things and resist resist absolutely Being told what to think well the

problem is these experts are human beings and human beings have very distinct Behavior traits yeah that they exhibit especially when they're in a position of power and Prestige yeah and they like to hold that and they like to it feels good for them to be the person that looks down upon the people that don't know better and tell them what to do and tell them what to think and when you're doing that with something like AR Look if you're doing that with something like mathematics and someone's a mathematical expert math is a very specific and

precise science yeah it's very specific yeah Archaeology is like who [ __ ] knows what's out there because you haven't searched everything it's not possible to and as we devel more these these fascinating Technologies like lar where you have the ability ground penetrating radar all these different things where you can Look into the soil itself and find things that aren't visible on the surface see them through trees see them through that we're going to find more and and obviously in Brazil they have done in the Amazon they have done that well that was part of

our adventure with with season 2 of ancient apocalypse was the was was working with with a really professional team in in Brazil uh led by a an archaeologist Marty paronan from the University of Helsinki and a Geographer from Brazil alo ranzi alo years ago was the first person who noticed that there are these huge geometrical structures emerging out of the Amazon jungle and and he he noticed it on a on a flight on a commercial on a commercial aircraft in an area that happened to have been cleared by local farmers for planting crops uh that

there was this massive geometrical earthwork there and that he he actually coined the term geoglyphs for these because he Compared them in some ways with the NASCAR lines which again are really only visible from the air you get the suddenly the the massive scope and extent of these things and it's same with the geoglyphs in the in the Amazon and and here's the thing the ones we know about up till now have we largely know about them because of these tragic clearances of the Amazon rainforest which is a maybe short-term economic game but is a

long-term not a very good Idea um but now with liar it's possible to find these things without damaging any rainforest at all and we had a liar expert with us and and you can fly liar off a drone now that's amazing yeah it's it's incredible it's a pretty hefty drone but but they can fly anywhere and and we found I say we it was actually the liar expert who found he found with the you can see the edge of the rainforest where where the clearances stop and the rainforest hasn't yet been Interfered with and then

he flies over there and within a matter of hours he's found multiple more of these of these structures s Deep In The rainfor Deep In The Rain covered completely and lar allows him to see through the canopy and to see what's underneath it without damaging it and there are these huge Earthworks and this raises the question how much more is there in the Amazon to find especially which even even the archaeologists who are most reluctant Are now willing to accept that the Amazon had a huge popul before the Spanish Conquest so wild that's such a

shift Millions cities yeah a whole different way of life a whole different kind of civilization from the one that we have today one that lived in a a man-made Garden which is what the Amazon really and truly is and lived in and lived in harmony with that that's an interesting thing too we've talked about that before for people have never heard Those other podcasts they've determined that the the Amazon rainforest is at least partially man-made definitely uh they've they've determined that because of the the preponderance of trees that serve human needs uh they call them

hyperdominance and things like brazilnut trees which are which which are providing food for human beings are in massive dominance in relation to trees that aren't useful to human beings uh and it's it's clear that this is a Result of a long-term human project to make this jungle serve human needs what was the other one the ice cream Bean what was that ice cream bean and I'm forgetting all of the details but there's a there's a bunch of there's aants of food plants which are which which are hyperd dominant in the in in the Amazon rainforest

and these and these food plants show that human beings have been nurturing have been massaging this natural wonder and turning it into Something that really serves human needs and there's the other thing that you've discussed in in depth the Terra praa this this man-made incredibly Rich nutrient dense soil that they can grow incredible agriculture off of that we really to this don't know how they created it's a mystery again it was a great privilege to have the opportunity to stand in a pit of terraa that is being excavated to get down 15 ft into that

with can they recreate it once they Get it um it appears that modern but not modern but but indigenous communities in the Amazon are still doing this they're still they're still doing it mixing mixing all kind of refu and waste uh together and enriching the soil with it so it's it's it's not stopped terpret is still being made but most of it is very old and the oldest that they found so far is about 8,000 years old so it's just large scale regenerative agriculture using some old lost method Yeah that's right that's right and and

making see a rainforest even when you choose trees that are going to serve human needs it's not enough you do need to be able to plant in the rainforest and and that is what teraa has allowed people to do rainforest soils are not particularly fertile by Nature so it's these spots of fertility all over the Amazon and we we went into that mystery quite quite a bit in in one of the episodes It's so interesting especially When you consider the stories like the lost city of Z you know which they turned into uh an interesting

film but the the book details these records of these incredible cities that these people had visited a long time ago and then when they tried to go back there was nothing there yeah because everybody had died off because of European diseases probably that's exactly what happened yeah but those cities were just consumed by the jungle yeah yeah and Much like Detroit if you go to Detroit now you could see there's a like there's a bunch of uh neighborhoods in Detroit that are essentially abandoned and trees are growing right through the houses and the houses are

I mean that's just a few decades ago and the houses are almost gone in some in some ways and if you went back 200 years ago there' probably be nothing left of them MH and this is probably exactly what happened in the Amazon except the trees just consume the Landscape cuz it's such a incredible dense rainforest that things grow so quickly there that's what happened I I mean before the lost city of Z we have this very interesting report and I have mentioned it to you before in pre previous episode the expedition of of um

gasp kahal and and his Chronicle Francisco D Oriana um which was an accidental Expedition they were just going hunting in a Longboat but the Amazon took them and wouldn't let them Go back and they traveled forth 4,000 miles across South America and ended up in the they started on the Pacific side and ended up in the Atlantic Ocean wow and that's in the 1550s 1560s and they report seeing enormous thriving prosperous cities highly civilized with Advanced arts and crafts um and they were not believed because 100 years later when other Spaniards made that voyage and

went into the AMS and they couldn't find the Cities and the reason they couldn't find them is precisely the reason that you give which is that the jungle had eaten those cities because the human population had been wiped out by disease brought by the Spaniard the spani didn't have to have direct contact with those indigenous peoples in the middle of the Amazon the diseases just jumped from population to population and just killed everybody it's so wild that that happens it's so crazy when most people probably Aren't even aware there everyone knows there was a genocide

of Native Americans in this country but most people don't know that 90% of them were wiped out by disease absolutely which is just unbelievable to think about millions of people just wiped out over the course of a few decades or or hundred years by diseases yeah it's a early example of a biological weapon yeah um right and to some extent uh it was used deliberately as a biological weapon like like those Small poox infected blankets is that true the small poox infected blankets I've heard that that was like a a rumor may it may well

be a rumor but from what I've looked at from from the Spanish conquest of Mexico uh there was there was a realization that we can kill these people with small pox and and uh and it was and it was spread and and we have some immunity to it that they that they don't have right because we had it forever in Europe yeah it's it's just so Um terrible when you read cabesa daka's uh story about visiting the Maya civilization and you realize like that was you guys [ __ ] killed everybody yeah the disease the

diseases did I I mean the battles did Kill Some people but but not on the order of the diseases Mex Mexico City fell to the Spaniards um primarily because of disease uh and secondarily because the Aztecs weren't popular with their neighbors so it Really wasn't just CZ and 400 Spaniards it was it was Cortez and 400 Spaniards plus small pox plus the tasins who the Aztecs had used as a sort of farm for human sacrifices for 100 years and the talin looked at Cortez and they said we can use this guy and so they joined

him he had tens of thousands of talin Warriors oh uh otherwise he would not have he would not have had that Victory so what Archaeology would like is to be in control of expressing that narrative In its fullest form and I don't think they know I don't think they can no I nobody can explain thex explain that explain those features and those faces it's a it's a very curious thing and again and again the moment we start talking about people's facial features then they jump in with you're being a racist you're being a white supremacist

or whatever although the all make heads don't Ser white supremacism not at all how how would that be racist is racist If these were the most advanced seafaring people alive 6,000 years ago again would be kind of the opposite the racism angle is just being used to shut it down right this is something that we particularly in the climate in the world today well Flint does that a lot yeah he does I saw him do that to Jimmy corsetti online o over uses of parentheses or or brackets did you see that I did that somehow

or another that's a code for Jews like I thought it I thought what he Was doing was avoiding um there's there's certain algorithms that pick up on particular words that you use like you you ever see that people they they don't like if they want their post to be more viral they don't write the word shooter they write s H and then they put like two asteris and then T RS I've noticed people doing that yes so what people are trying to do by blanking out swear words and cutting out different words is that you

you can bypass Algorithms that selectively remove or limit the distribution of those kind of posts with those key words in it yeah so that apparently was all he was trying to do was adding brackets to something to you know to enhance the algorithm to enhance the algorithm but it's just like accusing someone of racism it should be like it should be so it should be very clear what they're saying there should be it it shouldn't be you have decided through some sneaky code to to decide That this person's racist oh I this code means this

this is a commonly used code like Yeah from what I understand that those use of brackets is just to trick the algorithm yeah yeah just like the the two asteris for shooter I think it's I think it's very it's very unfortunate that in serious and interesting discussion about the past that this issue of race immediately gets dumped into it yeah because those who are dumping race into the issue know that That's a way to shut down a conversation nobody wants to be accused of being a racist it's also the dumbest suggestion because the most sophisticated

ancient civilization that's baffling people to this day is in Africa yeah so shut the [ __ ] up shut the [ __ ] up it doesn't make any sense those were the most advanced human beings ever and we we disagreement there's a lot of confusion debate as to how long ago they were there according to their hieroglyphs they were there 30,000 plus years ago but at the very least those were people in Africa okay so all the racism [ __ ] should be out the window because no one's saying that was anybody else no that

was that was an African civilization they literally have images of themselves we know what they look you know at least drawings of what they looked like we have statues of what they looked like it was an African civilization they were the most advanced people perhaps ever I'm leaning towards Ever I'm leaning towards ever too yeah because because look uh can we think of any other civilization that has survived for 3,000 years right that you go visit right now that you can go visit right now T site but but ancient Egypt as a culture survived for

3,000 years it's it's it's survived the the the Greek occupation it survived the previous Persian occupation it was only the Romans that that brought it low the the the the Roman occupation of Egypt was The beginning of the end to put it into perspective I always use this quote um I forget who who came up with this but it's a Perfect Analogy Cleopatra lived closer to the invention of the iPhone than she did to the construction of the pyramids even if you use the conventional 2500 BC dating of the the construction of the pyramids which

is also under debate it's under debate yeah what Al even if that's true even if it is 2,500 years ago the most baffling Thing is how did they do it there's no simple answers I don't give a [ __ ] what anybody says there's no simple an how did they do it how did they have such incredible sophistication in their construction methods how did they get those massive 80 plus ton Stones 500 miles down from the mountains with no equipment no heavy machinery whatever they did I think it's it's reasonable to say that in a

different way I don't think they had iPhones I don't think They had email but they were probably more sophisticated than us today and their ability to manipulate Stone and and make constructions certainly were and I and I think they had Mastery of techniques that we don't that we don't know about yet Perhaps equipment and perhaps equipment the the the Great Pyramid remains to me an abiding mystery which despite probably hundred or more visits to the Great Pyramid and being inside it and spending the night in it And exploring every passage and every chamber including the

relieving so-called relieving Chambers above the king's chamber I still can't figure it out I don't I don't understand how it was possible to do this and and then the the time span which egyptology gives us because egyptology is is fixed on the idea that the Great Pyramid is a tomb and only a tomb and then it was built in about 20 years and 23 years because if it's the tomb of kufu then it had to be Built in 23 years because that was his Reign uh he would start in theory building it at the beginning

of his Reign and and it's finished by the by the end of his Reign that's 23 years uh and in the broadest span if you look at the fourth Dynasty pyramids and even go back to to the end of the third Dynasty the Pyramid of Zoser the the the step pyramid you find that this is a sudden emergence of incredible skills which lasts for about a hundred years And then it goes away it stops the pyramids that follow the Great Pyramid of Giza the three pyramids on the Giza Plateau the pyramids that follow them the

fifth Dynasty pyramids are really poor they're very very poor quality workmanship they're falling to pieces you can hardly recognize from the outside that they're pyramid at all when you get inside you do find wonderful Chambers and you do find what you don't find in any of the Great Pyramids which Is huge numbers of hieroglyphs uh and and accounts of the person who was supposedly buried in that per what do you think of Christopher Dunn's work Christopher Dunn came on the podcast and he explained his theory that he thinks the Great Pyramid of Giza was some

sort of a power plant I think it's a theory which deserves to be taken seriously along with other theories as to what it is one thing I know for sure is that the theory that it was just a tomb and Nothing else is bust that is not a satisfactory Theory anymore so we should be open to a number of possibilities and Chris comes to this from a background of machine tool making uh he's a very precise guy he's an engineer he understands this kind of thing and when he looks at particularly the at Sakara you

have this thing called the serapium which is an underground Labyrinth uh and it's got wide corridors through it and then off each side are rooms And in each room are these gigantic Basalt boxes which appear to have held the corpses of bulls they're they're they're they're like sarcophagy for human beings but they're on an enormous gigantic scale uh weighing hundreds of tons and cut out of the hardest possible Rock precisely engineered everything is exact and it's that amongst other things that is attracting Chris's attention to the possibility of of um a lost technology in in

ancient Egypt and then He asked himself the question well what was the Great Pyramid if it wasn't a tomb what what might it have been and he's come he's come to the solution that it was some kind of energy generator some kind of some kind of power plant and yeah using chemicals and creating hydrogen and oddly enough there there's a there's just a recently published archaeological paper um concerning the step pyramid at Sakara which is suggesting that they used Hydraulics to To lift the big Stones up in up inside there um and that you know

that begins to come close to the kind of the kind of technology in some ways that Chris is that Chris is talking about I think I think it's worth taking very seriously I've always had great respect for Chris I've traveled to Egypt with him um and um I think he's done very important work contributing contributing to this and also looking at the stone the stone vases from ancient Egypt um I remember The first time I was drawn to this mystery which was us of them this is a 3D print of that's a 3D print of

one of this is a 3D print of an actual stone aase and it might be like not that exciting to people like oh what's the big deal what the big deal is the Precision in which this was constructed with handles on it so it couldn't have been spun on a lathe no because it has these two handles that are also cut out of the stone yeah and everything is Precise to within thousands of a human hair which is bananas yeah it doesn't it doesn't make sense given what we are taught was the level of Technology

of Egypt at that time now there is some dispute of where these came from there is some dispute about the what what is have these been made in a modern way and has someone tried to replace you know are we looking at fakes or hoes are we looking at hoaxes well perhaps in some cases we are but but certainly in others Including those in the in in the great museums in Cairo they've now moved a of the content of the Kara Museum out to a big museum at at at Giza and some of it's in

in transition but they have thousands of these things the thing is like even if this was modern technology we don't know what they did no we don't know what modern technology exists that you could take an incredibly hard piece of stone and cut it into this unbelievably precise little vase with Handles on it yeah and some bizarre method that we don't know and hollowed out the inside of it and some of them with very thin necks and then a hollowed out ins like how how did you do that very thin necks and then this bulbous

base base to it it's all perfect there's another piece which it's hard to describe but it's got a it's got a series of three flanges that come across it's like a wheel um but it's a nobody knows what it is um and it's it's cut Out of incredibly hard rock or cut or shaped in some way I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for this for this thing I wish I could call up a picture but I don't know do you know what it's called I can't remember Jam's a wizard at find I've written about it

in uh in Fingerprints of the Gods let's see I bet Jamie's already found it is that it no yes top left that's the one that when I first saw that in the KY Museum I It's car from schist you know this thing is hard and and when I first saw that in the Kira Museum I I thought how on Earth did they do this why isn't this a big mystery why isn't is being seen as a mystery because that looks like a a piece of an engine it does doesn't it it looks like that that

looks like something I'd find on my Land Cruiser yeah it looks like part of something else we're finding a bit of something larger wow that looks like to me like Some part of some kind of machine yeah that's the only thing that it looks like yeah that's that's exactly what if you know like Automobiles and parts and you look at something like that like oh yeah that goes probably in there somewhere exactly exactly and what what is its function if it isn't something else it's difficult to see what function it could have how it could

be what is the conventional explanation of what this this thing is some kind of offering ball Click on that the disc the this that article okay Sabu disc an ancient Egyptian artifact from the first dynasty 300 to 2800 BC found in 1936 in North how do you say that Sakara Sakara Sakara necropolis and UHA maaba s311 those are sort of uh tombs which have got two levels m H what an incredible piece it is an incredible piece I had never seen that before and there it is first dynasty and of course you can't actually date

the object itself so they're dating It from Context what they're saying is that it was found in a first dynasty context but it may have been a legacy even then it may have been an old object even then we just don't know that but it's at least exactly but it's at least that old from the context so it's at least 3,000 years old they think it was used excuse me 3,000 BC they think it was used in brewing beer as a mash r to mix and even out the mixture of grains and hot water in

a big Mash turn ton I Don't know what that means I don't know either but I would have thought that if that was your project you could do it without carving shift shist into that click on that thing what is the mysterious Egyptian dis what it says it right there that's it can we click on that can go full scale on that so I can see what that looks like wow that's wild yeah it really is such a specific Shape like if you're going to just use that to make beer that it seems weird and

it's a lot of work to make beer you could you could do it in other ways that looks like some kind of a fan to me MH it looks like something that would be on a belt yeah you know like on a on some sort of a or something it looks like a fan yeah it it could be looks like it looks like those those things underneath it it looks like that's how you would funnel Water or air through yeah it it it it clearly had a function no nobody would go to the trouble of

of creating something as complex and difficult to make as this unless there was a useful function for what is it made out of shist which is a hot stone that's crazy that that's made out of stone yeah like how did you cut out of one piece of stone how did you do that and what are the how are the the measurements of that oh look it's Georgio he says it's aliens I'm just gonna guess is um this this thing that's cut out of this in oops lost it there for a second this thing that's cut

out of this incred hard Stone like do they have any sort of an or a guess of how someone would cut something like that I've never I've never seen a satisfactory guess um but but those like Chris Dunn who are studying the technology of ancient Egypt are are are confident that we're looking at the Traces of a lost technology we don't know how this was done like so much else in ancient like we don't know how the 70 ton blocks were raised to become the roof of the king's chamber either in the in in the

great pyr there's so much that we don't know and that's not explained and that is easily written off by by um abusively arrogant uh experts who say there's no mystery here that doesn't look super precise in terms of the the radius of it when you're looking at it It looks like it it looks handmade doesn't it I'm sure it is handmade the question is how right but you know what I'm saying so are these vases right yeah yeah but there's something about it that's like a little more crude yeah but it probably didn't have to

be precise because whatever it did had of Spin and it survived through at least 5,000 years it definitely looks like it was something that spun right cuz you have that hollowed out piece in The center that you would have an axle on or something along those lines it looks like it's welded in certain spots too but like how how do they weld Stone how well apparently they carve that shape out of just one that's crazy now that one looks Ultra precise this one might have been remade off of the original maybe click on that see

I would say that's a remake is it if it's not it's insane that's even more Insane cuz that looks so perfect why does that look different than the other images I don't know well go back to that one where it's spinning around yeah look at it when it spins around looks pretty precise yeah they do look like they've recreate did they only find one and they've recreated for museums or is no there there there's there's one original I've no doubt people have tried to make copies with with modern materials but definitely We're looking at a

few different versions of it yeah well also you got to think if it is made out of stone some of the edges have to be beat up just from being in the ground for thousands of years it's not the same you sure it's not just a different lighting beat up like the smooth the other one was smooth that's smooth that that almost that does look like a recreation doesn't it yeah it is I think that's that we're looking At a recreation okay whatever it is the thing is where you come where you come to this

there's there's thousands of objects that that defy explanation from what are those Jamie put that back up what are those things click Wheels you know what those are says first Wheels oh 48 4,000 700 Wheels 1500 BC basically uh and that's the weird one of the weirder things about Egypt right we don't think they had the wheel no they definitely had the wheel whether they Had the wheel in the Old Kingdom right uh is another question but certainly by by the New Kingdom by the time of rames they had Wheels they had chariots but I

mean the people that built the pyramids um 2500 BC is not like when do they think the wheel was invented well it's actually not clear to me when the wheel was invented let's see what the con I thought the conventional um guess of when the invention of the wheel was was post the construction of the pyramids I Believe that's the case but the one of the things about wheel is you have to ask yourself in what circumstances in what places in what conditions are wheels useful there are some conditions in in which a wheel is

not a useful thing and which it's going to get bogged down in the which is not going to be helpful um so so um the use of sleds was certainly part of how ancient Egyptians moved huge stones and I don't dispute that the Problem is how they then get those stones 300 feet in the air uh you can slide anything on wet sand on a sled with enough people pulling it but how do you get it to the top of the king's chamber how do you get it to the top of the king's chamber that's

that's the problem to fit it perfectly perectly perfectly and and you know I've i' I've been up there and been in every one of the chambers above and each one of them is flawed with these 70 ton blocks and Roofed with it it's so nuts it doesn't even seem like a thousand years more advanced than us it seems like thousands of years more advanced more advanced in a different way I think I think this is part of the problem where I've been perhaps misunderstood by egyptologist when I talk about an advanced civilization I I keep

trying to emphasize that we shouldn't look for ourselves in the past that if we're going to go back 10,000 12,000 15,000 Years into the past and talk about a civilization it's not going to be like us it's going to be very different it's going to have different priorities different ways of of looking at things but one of the things that the ancient Egyptians had which I'm not aware that any other civilization has had is the ability to sustain essentially a single culture with a single set of spiritual ideas and to sustain that for 3,000 years

and and to keep people happy and Fed and well- looked after you know this is this is an amazing achievement amazing stability uh when when you look at it what our civilization how old is it really we trace it back to the Romans probably not right maybe maybe uh 500 years the beginning of mechanization and and so on and so forth in our civilization pretty amazing yeah if you think just there's so many Mysteries to it for anybody to pretend that they have all the answers to something as Perplexing as Egypt I think the you

know this is this is an area where where um I often I often get criticized but but uh I think we when we look at a civilization and what it is and what's it's achieving and and why it's so special when we look at our civilization today we are fantastic at technology we we are brilliant at at science we can make the best possible machines um and and we're a society that is built around production and Consumption and a society in which people Define themselves in terms of what they own and what they possess what

they what they produce um and and it becomes a very materialistic Society soety that's focused on material things where we Define ourselves by our material possessions ancient Egypt had a totally different Focus yeah they were great at making material things but that was secondary their their main thing was what are we here for why are we living This life what what happens to us when we die they they investigated that mystery more deeply than any other culture that that I know of and they were doing so right from the beginning uh of of records and

they were documenting this journey to the afterlife absolutely in hieroglyphs and it's like what what were you documenting like how do you know like what were you trying how why how did everyone agree on this particular myth or this story Unless there was some experience being brought to bear in it it's one of the things that we point out in in season two um is is that the ancient Egyptian notion of a leap to the sky after death to the Milky Way of a journey along the Milky Way of encountering challenges and dangers and risks

there monsters that would block your path Gates that you had to know the password to get through that idea is found all over the world the the path of souls it's found all over the Americas that that what do you think that they're trying to say well I think that I think first of all it's it's evidence of a remote common origin of this idea it's when it's found amongst cultures all around the world that's apparently had no contact with one another and are often separated by hundreds or thousands of years the same idea is

found about what happens to us after death the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that They've all inherited this idea and then developed it in their own ways from a remote common source and that's one of the main reasons that I'm curious about the possibility of A Lost Civilization that these spiritual ideas are found all around the world uh and they they involve the Journey of the Soul after death and a leap a leap to the heavens and sometimes it's called an underworld but really it's set in the sky and this journey

that that takes place where you Are judged on what you've done with your life this is something something else that we avoid in the world today is taking responsibility for our own lives uh the ancient Egyptians required you to take responsibility for your life uh and if you did not do so the outcome after death would not be good uh you had to um you had to celebrate the gift of life you had to you had to realize the incredible gift that you had been given um and one of the opportunities of that Gift is

the opportunity to accumulate wisdom uh and that's one of the things hopefully that we all do as we get older is get a bit more a bit more wisdom and a bit more understanding but in the case of ancient Egypt that idea is developed over over 3,000 years and it's essentially the same at the beginning as it is as as it is at the end uh that the soul that death is not the end this is this is the conclusion of a society that put its best Minds at work for 3,000 Years on this problem

the death is not the end we may think it is scientists may tell us it is but when a scientist says death is the end there's nothing more we're just physical bodies and when the light goes out it goes out forever that's actually not a scientific fact that's that's not something that's been investigated or can be investig Consciousness itself is so confusing just just Consciousness just like what is it why are we conscious what what What is it local or are we tuning into Consciousness and uh when you die where's that go where's that energy

go is that is a soul a real thing like what is the essence of life what is the essence of human life and human consciousness those are perplexing questions they're very perplexing questions which which uh actually are of great significance to every one of us yeah I mean suppose death just is the end then that's a that's a way not to Have to take too much responsibility for our lives for the impact that we've had on others for the pain that we may have caused or for the joy that we may have caused if if

if if death's the end there's there's no up or downside to that whatever whatever we do but from the ancient Egyptian point of view death's not the end and you have been given the precious gift of Life what did you do with it and there are there are moral aspects to that question there There's these 42 assessors they're called the negative assessors who ask the soul of the deceased questions about what they did in life and those are all moral questions they bear some relationship actually to the to the Ten Commandments um but um there's

another question which is called the weighing of words and and that question is what did you do with the gift we gave you we gave you the gift of the human life we gave you the gift of the opportunity to love Or to hate at your choice we gave you the gift to live in a human body to have this incredible Consciousness to be able to integrate all kinds of information from all kinds of spheres what did you do with it did did you leave the world a better place or a worse place than when

you came into it did you hurt and damage and cause pain pain to others consistently out of wicked intent not accidentally but deliberately causing pain and there are human beings who do That for the ancient Egyptians that kind of behavior meant an introduction to Amit the Eater of the dead and an Amit is displayed in in the Judgment scene he's a he's a creature part hyena part lion um and he sits there and certain Souls do not go on their Journey ends and it ends because of the choices they made during life and because they

never took responsibility for what they did well it kind of makes sense a natural selection of the souls in a way that if There's natural selection of humans and natural selection of animals that allows them to to prosper like and to get better and to evolve it makes sense that that would that would happen with the soul as well I'm just so confused as to what the environment was like that allowed these people to keep this this in insane civilization developing and innovating for so long that they were so more advanced than anyone else that

was alive back then That were aware of at least as far as like what we've uncovered what they left behind the beautiful art that they made yeah the Perfection of their geometry their incredibly Advanced astronomy uh all of these things are the are the Hallmarks of a very sophisticated very Advanced civilization sure they didn't have iPhones but yeah but just a sophistication of the the the symmetry of the facial structure of the St yeah in incredible beautiful things Beautiful bizarrely bizarrely technologically advanced bizarrely because to to perform something like that you need incredible tools of

measurement enormous statues that have faces that are absolutely perfectly symmetrical how did you do that yeah how' you how' you stand that up well the answer is we we don't know we don't know there's so much that we don't know and and and it's that it's that attitude towards the past which I Think would be more helpful is that we have we have this mysterious background to we human beings as you said earlier anatomically modern humans we think that they first appeared about 300,000 years ago Jebel ER Hood in Morocco 310,000 years ago now I

can remember a time not so long ago back in the 1990s when when it was thought that the first anatomically modern humans were as recent as 50,000 years ago and then they shifted it new finds were made To 110,000 years ago now 310,000 years ago we don't really know how far into the past that goes and we don't know about the Neanderthals and the denisovans who were also human beings uh certainly they were human the same species as us because they could into breed with us uh you can't breed with another species uh so so

and that takes the Journey Back even further and that's one of the reasons why I have a problem with notion that Civilization just Emerges 6,000 years ago uh because we had the same kit the same wiring the same brains for at least 300,000 years and we weren't doing any of this stuff apparently uh I suspect we were but it's not made the record well it seems that that what they were dealing with in terms of the resources in the Nile Valley was unbelievably Bountiful it was Bountiful and that's probably one of the reasons before the

climate shifted and changed and it became aot of desert Before that it was probably incredibly Bountiful and that allowed them to stay there for a long period of time and not have to worry about food it certainly did uh the Bounty however goes back much further uh this is one of the reasons why I kept on trying to talk about the Sahara during the debate uh this vast area uh which frankly has not been studied properly by archaeology at all uh hardly a fraction of it has been studied uh this vast area I'm often accused

of creating a what they call a god of the gaps argument I'm saying you haven't looked enough in the Sahara you haven't looked enough in the submerged Continental shelves you haven't looked enough uh in the Amazon rainforest and and the argument is that I'm I'm trying to put my Lost Civilization into these gaps but these are very special gaps the the the submerged Continental shelves were Prime real estate during the Ice Age that was The that was the place to be just as it is today to be to be near coastlines the Amazon rainforest was

a bountiful was was a bountiful place and the Sahara Desert was green and Rich for thousands of years during the Ice Age with lakes with rivers uh it was the kind of place where a civilization might well have emerged they find whalebones there whales so anybody who doesn't think there's a mystery in the Sahara Desert yeah and anybody who really tries to Dismiss the notion that most of it hasn't been really excavated but it really hasn't been no it hasn't it's it's it's too vast it's too vast and it's too expensive to the excavation like

you would have to you're dealing with a place where how many people even live there nobody knows because it's not been investigated properly it's a desert uh and and uh it's had relatively little attention we do know there's some Amazing rock art from the upper Paleolithic in in tassle in Algeria in in the Sahara um but not enough has been done this is this is the this is the problem for me with saying archaeology's basically got the story of the human past nailed down is that there's huge areas which have not been investigated and I

reject the idea that that is a god of the gaps argument because that's not why I'm proposing There Was A Lost Civilization And that's all I'm doing I'm not insisting I'm not demanding that people believe me I'm just I just want to inject this idea into the discussion so that it could can be considered when taken out of context was a little clip where you asked me is in during the debate um is there any evidence for your Lost Civilization in what they've found and I said in what they' found no and then I went

on to say um but that brings us to the point of what they've looked For and what they've not looked for what they've found and what they've not found um that has been taken again and again as as me saying that there's no evidence for my Lost Civilization whereas what I'm actually saying is there's no evidence in what archaeologists have studied uh for A Lost Civilization because I'm not studying what archaeologists study I am very happy to use material from archaeologists and I could not do what I do if I didn't use Material from archaeologists

it's very important basis to my work however it's the astronomy it's the astronomical alignments it's the Precision it's the Precision of the Great Pyramid it's the myths it's the myths of a global flood all around the world this is It's a universal story of a massive cataclysm with a few survivors who bring their knowledge to others this story this is one of the reasons why I think the Atlantis story which which Flint dible Is so opposed to deserves to be taken seriously uh because it's part of a global tradition it's yet another flood myth in

fact it's the story it's just like those 150 or 200 other flood Traditions that come from around the world and it's not enough for archaeologists to say oh people experienced a little local River flood uh or or there was a tidal wave that day and so they decided that the whole world was submerged with water that doesn't Satisfy me at all the fact that this is found all around the world to me is a memory of something that happened to our ancestors something so traumatic something so huge that it's been preserved better than almost anything

else from our past what what is your take on the right rart Str am I saying that right rart structure structure morania um I I would not like to say one way or the other because I've not been there um I've not I've not had boots on the ground there I've not been able to look at it yes it's very intriguing very I um also the salt all around it yeah where it shows that at one point in time it was probably submerged like something happened probably was but you might have to go back many

millions of years to get to get to that point the honest answer to that question is I don't know I'm open-minded on the rad structure it's something that I would like to I would Like to study um but I have not uh had had time to yet in in future work it's something that I may that I may study and after studying it I may come to the conclusion that it's just a remarkable natural phenomenon of which there are many or I may come to a different conclusion it depends what the what the evidence shows

me but I try not to to spout off on things that I'm not personally acquainted with and don't really know about well good for you I Like to spout it off uh it's also like there's so many of those things that people thought were myth like Troy Troy yeah and they find it find by an amateur turns out to be turns out to be a real place I think the myths are the memory banks of our species uh and I don't think archaeology takes them seriously enough there's a tendency to just dismiss them as fantasies

uh as as things that were made up by by the ancients for some bizarre reason of Their own but they're The Memories We have from the time before writing from the time before documents were kept uh and they're a precious resource in in understanding our past so it's it's things like that and then at the end of the day to say to twist what I said uh that in in what archaeologists have studied there's no evidence from my Lost Civilization uh is is uh is completely wrong because I've I've I've written thousands of pages of

books this is this Is one of the issues like in that debate I was supposed to prove everything about A Lost Civilization I didn't even come here to prove it I came here to explain why I'm interested in it and why I want to share my interest and my curiosity about the past uh with others but if if I'm asked to prove it I would say don't refer to what I managed to say during a three-hour debate I'd say refer to to the the eight or so major books that I've written with thousands of pages

and Thousands of documented footnotes that's where my my argument is in place and you'll find that that argument is not based on what archaeologists have studied it's based precisely on what they've not studied about the past well regardless of the argument that Flint tried to put forth that there's no evidence of what you're saying the exaggeration of the shipwrecks the the stuff about seeds the the fact is this resonates With a lot of people this this mystery is perplexing it's it's confusing and there's a lot of it out there it's not like one site like

Egypt there's a ton of sites yeah the uh Sage wall in Montana what do you think of that thing again I will withhold judgment until I have my boots on the ground there and have a look at it and even then that might not be enough I do know that the property owners there are doing a lot of ground penetrating radar uh and there May be results from that but at the moment I would not say that's definitely a man-made structure nor would I say that's definitely a natural structure I would say that's an intriguing

structure uh but it is in a geological context where other things like that are found if I if I were asked to put money there it is yeah Bo that looks I mean it really is hard it is hard to resist the conclusion I mean it's super hard to resist the idea that that's man-made and Especially if it goes deeper under the ground than they think it does they think it goes oh it does it it goes It goes deeper that's what the what the ground penetrating radar how far is about 30 ftt in fact

I was I was yesterday so manmade yeah it really does it when I look at that photograph to me that is a that is a man-made structure but I realized now in the environment in which I live surrounded by archaeologists who Are extremely hostile to my work that I better it it's not in my interests to LEAP to a conclusion about anything of course before I've before I've studied it and I do intend to go to Sage wall I was yesterday with with Michael Collins who's the guy who's done a lot of the videography on

Sage wall he doesn't know whether it's natural or man-made either more work needs to be done but it's an intriguing issue and it may be part of the Lost history of the Americas we just Don't know yet what's crazy is if that is how old is that thing how old is it who knows yeah who knows and if you're talking about Footprints of people that lived 22,000 years ago yeah like what were they making things like what yeah what was going on did they build something like that yeah or or or even earlier right um

is or even earlier is it part of the part of the lost story of the Americas there's so much that's been lost particularly in in North America um With the the massive destruction that took place during the 19th and 18th and early 20th century um it's reckoned that there were a million Mound sites in North America uh if you go back to 1500 uh there's about 100,000 left uh which is a lot actually um but most of them are massively destroyed and the other 900,000 uh have gone uh just plowed under turned into into into

farmland and how much else of the of the prehistory of North America has been Lost as a result of a process where where first of all there was a conviction that the indigenous inhabitants had only been here for a very short time whereas we now know they've been here for a very long time uh and and secondly there was a propagandistic desire not to give too much credit to them so let's get rid of let's get rid of some of their stuff wow I was very disappointed when we were shooting season 2 of ancient apocalypse

That uh we were not allowed by the authorities to film in Cahokia which is one of the Great uh the great Mounds that still survive um because they've been told that I'm a pseudo archaeologist and that I'm going to mislead the public if I go there so so the best way is just to stop me going there we tried to film in mville in Alabama as well and again we were denied permission to to film there there's no doubt that archaeology has joined ranks Uh to do their best to prevent me doing what I do

that's so awful to deny anyone the ability to especially going to put something like this on Netflix where millions of people are going to see it deny people the just the access through video of experiencing this site and the Mystery that's attached to it like who are these people why did they build this what what artifacts haven't been discovered that are in inside of this thing and you know here's what Archaeologists say here's an alternative point of view yeah you're an intelligent member of the public make up your own mind you're being reasonable that's outrageous

it's it's it's a most unfortunate thing well um it's it's not unfortunate that there's a lot of people that are interested in it though more and more it's it's a fascinating phenomenon I I I do see it as an extension of our of our interest in our own genetic Origins for Example a lot of people I haven't done it yet but I I'm kind of keen to do 23 in May or whatever it's called I wouldn't do it no not now no they sell your data away they'll sell your data now someone's going to know

your exact DNA yeah the whole thing's nuts like I didn't know that they could do that but apparently they have not only that databases get breached and they find my my eldest son uh who is half Somali and half half English had his DNA done with 23 and me and um he found what it showed was that he's 50% African and 49% British and 1% Spanish oh and and we tried to figure that out and the answer is that my ancestors came from Cornwall in the southwest of England and that's where the Spanish Armada washed

up and the survivors of the Spanish Armada washed up and then integrated with the local community and contributed their genes so you know there is an interest In the past there an interest in our personal past our personal Origins our ancestors who we are and there's a much broader interest in the story of humanity that has brought us to where we are today and this haunting feeling that something's missing and that we that we have a we have a civilization today I I often comp would like to compare it to a a sort of furious

in terms of the level of Consciousness our civilization today is like a furious petulent teenager but In terms of what it can do in terms of the destructive power of nuclear weapons it's a God so we have Godlike Powers with the consciousness of an immature teenager that's what we're looking at in the world today and maybe by understanding our past better by understanding our Unity that comes down from the past maybe we can learn something that would be helpful to us in not carrying on in this way because we do live at an inflection point

just now This is one thing I'm pretty sure that quote unquote my Lost Civilization didn't have and that was nuclear weapons but we have nukes today and we have them in in an enormous scale and behind each of those nukes is a fragile human being with his own or her own ego and complexes and fears and paranoia uh and and we're reaching a point where those buttons are going to be pressed we are as far as I know the first human civilization that uh has the capacity to Actually wipe itself out completely we don't need

a comet impact we don't need a solar Outburst we can do it to ourselves and that requires Humanity to make a major step forward in Consciousness and I think making that major step forward in consciousness will be helped by better understanding our own past I I agree I I mean it's just disturbing how many times we can travel to ancient places like Greece or any any place where you go to Rome and realize Oh there's a thriving civilization here at one point and you were in Greece recently yeah with Brian you with Brian meski guy

brilliant guy but it uh what a treat is to have a tour of the Parthenon the Acropolis with him yeah and you know we went to uh to see the side of the ucini Mysteries and all that it was very very very interesting but just also sobering because you realized like this civilization did not make it you know this this insane fascinating complex Civilization crumbled yeah and the idea that ours can't is one that we kind of hold dear like we're different we got it figur it out we're better but there's so much evidence that

that's just a normal pattern of human history civilization's come and go yeah we could be gone in 20 years yeah I'd love to take you on a trip to Egypt at I want to go I want to go I'll tell you about an an idea that was brought to me uh after the show I can't talk about it now yeah I'll tell You I've made friends with sahi hawas I heard he's a very you guys are homies now yeah we're homies we had we had a nice dinner together and it's partly because who needs more

enemies and hatred in this world and and I I said some very cruel harsh things to zahi in the past and I felt I felt the time had come to apologize for those so I went to Egypt to apologize to him really and we had a fantastic dinner together his son joined us Santa was there it was very Friendly and very positive and I love stories like that and you know we've agreed that we will if by chance we get a season three of ancient apocalypse which we may or may not get um I'm not

in control of commissioning decisions at at Netflix but if we get a season 3 of ancient apocalypse I would like it to be entirely on Egypt and and and what I would like is for zah to confront me on every Point as we go through Egypt whatever one says about zah explosive personality he's been immersed in ancient Egyptian egyptology for his whole life and he has very strong points of view on it and he's a fun guy in some ways um you know I'd imagine that as people get older and wiser and realize the Folly

of their ways particular in their youth maybe he would be more open to the idea that the civilization is just the this civilization same civilization but older than you think it Is yeah I'm I'm I'm hoping to persuade him of of that I think it'll be an interesting dialogue if we get if we get to have it I think people for a long time uh had this concept in their mind that changing the dates somehow negates the accomplishment of the people that lived in the prescribed date yeah you know the somehow or another uh the

pushing it back yes the pushing it back somehow or another even they'll even say it's racist this is a propag this is Propaganda this is this is archaeological propaganda for for that's been said to me repeatedly that I'm suggesting that um all the achievements of certain indigenous cultures around the world should actually be handed to to A Lost Civilization that ideas were brought to them yet weirdly those same archaeologists recognize that agriculture was introduced to Europe by immigrants from precisely the gockley tee area that's that's where agriculture Wasn't present in Europe until 5 or 6

thousand years ago it was brought in by other people people this is part of the human nature that we share ideas somebody has a great idea we look at that we think we'd like a bit of that too teach me how to do it uh and this happen this happens all the time and it doesn't mean that the person who's being taught is any less than the person who's doing the teaching the person who's being taught may have things to teach Themselves um I've always felt that there were if there was A Lost Civilization at

all and I believe there was but I can't absolutely prove it I think we're looking at a terrible cataclysm part of it happened near gocke Abu Herrera in Syria was was hit by one of those Air Bursts absolutely incinerated at at at that at that time um a terrible cataclysm uh with relatively few survivors uh and that those survivors just as we would do Today took Refuge amongst people who'd made it through the disaster better and those Refuge those those people who'd made it through would most likely have been hunter gatherers uh because hunter gatherers

are so resilient and so able to survive disasters whereas whereas people in a quote unquote civilized condition are often are often not I mean you know we can see relative I understand that the Hurricanes that are happening in the US at the moment are Horrific horrific natural events which are which which are killing people but we're talking about something on a scale vastly larger than that and it's difficult for me to see we find it hard enough to make it through a hurricane I find it difficult to see how we could make it through another

younger Drass impact event or how we could make it through a man-made cataclysm as a result of nuclear war which is I suspect and I fear is much closer than we think I I I Hate the idea that nuclear missiles may be flying in my lifetime or the lifetime of my children but I have to say honestly it's a possibility with the state of the world at the moment and the low state of consciousness of the people who lead us the leaders and governments are behind this it's not it's not human beings individual people who

are behind this hatred in the world today it's leaders and governments who are mobilizing that hatred to serve their Own interests uh and it's very dangerous if if we didn't have nukes it would be less dangerous but yeah I I agree with you um when you're talking about gockley tee one of the things that uh Jimmy corsetti has talked about recently in his YouTube show is that there they have stopped excavation and they've planted trees above some of the areas which is very strange it is and they they want the excavation to resume in 150

years yes so What would be a logical reason to not excavate these fascinating ancient sites that are at least 11,000 years old generally with any archaeological site they don't excavate more than 5% of it and often less than 2% of it is that because of funds it's often because of funds but it's also because of the feeling that as technology improves uh more may be learned from these sites in the future and and that's a reasonable argument uh because excavation is Destruction to a certain extent excavation destroys what's being excavated um and therefore when you

interfere with a site and start Excavating it you may be destroying materials that in a 100 years technology would be able to interpret in a completely different way I mean 100 year go back a 100 years from where we are at present and you didn't have carbon dating you didn't have liar you didn't have uh all kinds of methods of of of of Dating objects you know luminescence the the luminescence from rocks is another way of dat we didn't have any of those Technologies we do have them now and so I think the speculation is

100 years in the future archaeologists have may techn may have technologies that would be able to extract more information than this that's the case that's made I get it but I think gocke is such an important site and we know know I know for sure because I spent three days with CLA Smidt who Was the original excavator of gocke that underneath that place there there are dozens of huge unexcavated Stone circles with enormous megalithic pillars in them all under the ground waiting to be excavated and the decision appears to have been made not to excavate

them and I do find that slightly suspicious I do find it I do find it odd I think the site has got such an important role Ro it's such an iconic site that to just stop the excavation uh or to only Continue it in a very small way uh isn't satisfactory to when you say suspicious like what would be the motivation for discontinuing that kind of excavation other than the fear of destroying things um I don't want I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist please do Jump Right In but but there is a there

there is there is an issue here um I've noticed that it isn't just attacks on me that that certain Archaeologists are making it's also attacks on other Specialists for example Danny Hillman nataja who is the geologist who um brought to the world's attention the mystery of Gung Padang in Indonesia which appeared in the first episode of season 1 of ancient apocalypse uh the possibility that this site is more than 27,000 years old uh that we're looking at a pyramidal structure that that has had several phases of work done on it And that the earliest phases

go back deep into the last ice age he managed to publish a peer-reviewed paper on this but unfortunately for Dany he'd appeared on my show and that led archaeologists to dive in on him and there was a ganging up of archaeologists and complaints were made to the peer- review journal that published it and finally they retracted they retracted his paper without any good reasons I've I've got a major article by Danny on my website Explaining what what happened here it's like it's like we don't want too much attention brought to this let's crush it let's

crush it right now the same thing is happening with the younger dras impact hypothesis an enormous amount of attacks are being made on that hypothesis rather than considering it as a as an interesting explanation for the cataclysms at the end of the Ice Age a lot of a lot of people are just focused on trying to destroy it in in every way Possible is and I can't help wondering maybe there's some truth deep Truth uh to this that there was a cataclysm that there was an ancient apocalypse something really horrific that happened maybe it's a

cyclical disaster maybe it's coming round again this is this is something that would would lead any government uh to want to avoid Panic uh to to suppress to cover up these these issues so that would be the conspiracy theory on it I'm not saying I buy it but I'm saying that it is possible would also a conspiracy be that they recognized that some of the area around gockley tee was older still and they decided just the archaeologist didn't want to confront it and they put a stop to it that's also possible that's also possible but

in in their favor and to their credit uh the excavation of that whole area around not GOC teepe itself but other neighboring sites karahan teepe is the best known Turkish Archaeologists it's interesting are calling this now a civilization they're calling it The cast civilization the Stone Hills civilization and they're finding that the same iconography the same building techniques not quite on the scale of Quebec Lee are repeated all across the region they extend all the way down to the south of the Jordan Valley to Jericho the ancient site of Jericho is part of that lost

or emerging civilization that appeared at the end of The of the younger drer Cyprus is another example I was mentioning about how it was settled in what appear to have been planned organized settlement event near the end of the last ice age again you find that same iconography that you find at GOC Tey turning up there which iconography specifically the the tendency to to use t-shaped pillars uh to to use certain designs like a v-shaped uh necklace the this this kind Of iconography and and the structures these circular structures semi semi Subterranean structures that are

so characteristic of goley they're found they're found there as well they're found all across the region Jericho in the the Jordan Valley is absolutely intriguing the massive Tower there which again dates back right to the end of the last ice age a huge megalithic Tower with the world's oldest known megalithic stairway that runs up that runs up Inside it so what's emerging as a result if goly tee hadn't been found none of this would have happened but it's led to a widespread interest in the whole area so while excavation may have stopped at gbec Le

tee or may have slowed down it is continuing elsewhere uh across the region and to be fair to archaeologists we need to recognize that is the size and scale of gockley tee unique in comparison to the ones that are around it yes so far the ones that have been Found GC tee is unique and and I and I think it's it's clear now that GC tee itself was the end of a process not the beginning of a process it was it was something that marked it was a marker it was something that brought together the

best of everything that they'd accumulated and and created it in one place uh and and left it there finally at the end burying it sealing it as a time capsule which then was untouched for more than 10,000 Years before CLA Schmidt opened it up in 1996 um it's it's I can't help feeling that's precisely what gobec Tey is it's a it's a time capsule it's a memorial to a lost time um and and I think that what we're looking at in that whole area is the outcome of contact with an largely Lost Civilization I think

it passed on its cultural genes right there in that in that area of turkey and down into the Jordan Valley and Cyprus and and they not only there also the indis Valley civilization it's incredible iconography uh which shows um a man between two felines uh it's it's very striking image you see a man and and two tigers or leopards on either side of him and he may be holding them apart he may be gripping them in some way what is this so Jamie could find it um you you can find it on um the galal

arak knife handle from uh Egypt um you can find it from sabok s a y b r k uh in um turkey The man between two SE two Felines and you can find it in the indis valley civilization right across in Pakistan on these steti seals that they used to make where again you see that same icon of the man between two felines um and it suggests that cultural ideas way back in the remote past were being spread around the world very very rapidly found anything there Jamie I can I can tell you the so

how much of that area where gockley tape has Been searched with liar here it is here's the images look at that wow yeah that's there we are that's that's haraa that's from the indis valley civilization man man between two felines um what do you think that supposedly represents nobody knows what it represents but what's intriguing is that it turn up in so many different places um but I'd like to find the S just give me one second just to find to find something I hope I'm online here I am um How many of the uh

areas have been searched with lar um hang on Joe bear with me just worries worries one minute this is where I have to take my bloody glasses off you got to go back and forth yeah um you looked at that show that Karen Tey has some cool stuff that I don't think we've seen before there's this huge skeletal figure this this one 12 ft high or something like that extraord kind of similar to the Easter Island heads what's going on down there Is hog you think it is how weird are those structures you know about

like the way their hands are placed it's kind of similar to the way the Easter Island hands are placed Jamie could I could I get plugged into the H HDMI uh sure do you need to uh yeah okay pause please we'll pause we'll be right back good all right we're back we're back okay we found these images from so so this is from Jamie maybe you could expand that Uh the cybook relief I think you have to do it okay it's on my yeah there we go so so this is this is about 10,000 years

old it's from a site in the area of gocke uh called saor uh and it's gone one second here it is and and it's a it's clearly a man between two F lines and interesting he's holding his dick uh exactly like that piece that you just showed from Kari um and then if we go on Um I don't understand what I'm doing with this thing there it is so then the indis again yeah I'm controlling what's on the screen you are okay so there's the man between two felines again expand that so that particular image

is there any sort of a theory as to what they were trying that what that represented uh human Mastery of animals is the only one I've heard uh that's being suggested um but it seems like they they're trying to get him it does in that in that case Uh rather than or or that he's holding them he's holding them at Bay keeping them from getting each other yeah and then if you go down to the Egyptian one which is the gble Alaric knife handle there it is that's from ancient Egypt predynastic Egypt same thing wow

and then the next one is from tiwanak in Bolivia um that's a redrawing uh from from tanako in Bolivia and again it's a man between two felines wow so when I see this kind of complicated image Turning up all around the world I can't help feeling that there's a remote common source which is sharing it's not each culture representing or influencing the other it's a remote common source that they all share what's the last one from from where's it from again from tiako in Bolivia look what what do you think he's got in his hands

well it looks like two felines is holding apart too right but what are those things that are dangling down I Absolutely have no idea and I'm not sure if anybody else does although I'm reminded in that one of the handbags that we that we see in some of the figures from ancient Sumer right but what is the thing on the left again I don't know and I don't think anybody does very what are there why does he have steps on his chest and a and a wheel like what is that you know what is that

what is that spiral in the center of his body it's a spiral of mystery I Honly don't know the answer to that question because like look it's a there's a geometric pattern and it goes up and down with the steps and it repeats on both Corners that one where it steps up and and the other side where it steps down yeah very strange it would be nice if there were written records from from tanako told what it was about but unfortunately there aren't just um very very bizarre so what I'm saying is we're we're seeing

a a sudden emergence Of something that is being recognized as a civilization in Turkey just immediately after gockley tee around the time of gockley tee and we're seeing it in the Jordan Valley and we're seeing it in the indis valley and we're seeing it in South America as well um the same iconography keeps on repeating and I don't think it's a coincidence the area where thech are have there ever been liar excavations or I wouldn't be surprised if there have vosa the sort of Central of the alch area is very highly populated area it's been

heavily developed the areas where Li lier has been used in Mexico and Central America in Guatemala uh has has has been finding thousands of Mayan ruins that nobody knew were there before again under under the jungle canopy lier has been used extensively uh in the Yucatan in Mexico and into Guatemala as as well but whether it's been used there we are look at that hundreds of and all ceremonial Centers yeah wow yeah this is all thank you liar you know so crazy that that stuff was there all along and nobody knew and nobody knew yeah

and and and of course the Amazon rainforest is an even bigger rainforest than this and what's hiding in it right is a a mystery that needs to be solved in the coming years right if we're going to have any idea of our own past I think the Amazon's incredibly important it's it's why I I chose to focus season 2 of ancient Apocalypse on the Americas because I think in terms of the Quest for the origins of civilization the Americas are the most neglected area archaeologists haven't looked there theyve they they Define themselves as being in

favor of indigenous peoples and against any kind of Supremacy but by and large they look to Europe and and to the Middle East as the origins of civilization and don't consider that it might have been in the Americas and what we're trying to show Is that the story in the Americas is much older than it's been and that there are Mysteries here that have never been explained by archaeology how much of the Amazon has been explored with liar a very tiny proportion I I worked with the team who are who are doing this and they're

solely in the province of arra uh in the southwest of Brazil they haven't worked in other areas what would be needed and I'm hoping some amazing philanthropist will come forward and if Such a philanthropist will come forward I can connect him with the people who are doing the work in Acra uh that we have a lied our survey of the whole of the Amazon that's what I'd like to see and it wouldn't be a billion dollar project because it can be done with drones now it could be it it could be relatively cost efficient that

would be incredible just imagine what's out there yeah and that's that and we have the tech we can do that we can do a liar Survey of the Amazon where specifically did they think that lost city of Z was and did they try to explore that I think it was in Ecuador or Colombia I can't I can't remember that was pery forcet wasn't it um and kind of uh echo of that earlier discovery of lost cities in the Amazon these Stories won't go away because there is a hidden past in the Amazon and because there

were cities in the Amazon and God knows what was in them you know before the Spanish came along and destroyed everything God it seems like that has to be discovered I mean that has to be looked at just specifically if we could just find that the lost city of Z was a real place if we could find it was a real place yeah uh I wish we could I mean just finding lost city of Z's Alle on rainforest and British Explorer Percy Harrison fet look M Gro in Brazil yeah theorized that the city was a

refuge of People fleeing the destruction of Atlantis whoa that its wisdom could still be found there wow yeah wow I think we're going to find the lost city of X and Y as well I bet and W maybe ABC D and possibly ABC and D too maybe a bunch yeah it's um at the very least it's CLE clear that not enough is known yeah not not not enough is known and and I think it's right and proper that we have curiosity about our past uh and I think it's un it's unfortunate that that People including

myself who who Express that Curiosity without any Dogma but simply are mystified by problems from the past are so likely to get slapped down and face this uh abusive power grab by by archaeology who are saying the past is ours you may not intrude here uh we will Define you as a pseudoscientist we will call you a hoaxer and a liar I defy anyone out there to find a single statement I've made that is a lie and a lie is uh a knowing untruth yes as far As I know I have never ever told knowingly

an untruth what a stupid thing to do that would be that would Scupper my whole work I may have made some honest mistakes everybody does including the most Godlike archaeologist but I have never knowingly told an untruth and I never would of course not the um the the interesting thing though is I but seriously I'd like an example because this has thrown at me so many times you can't be responding to the haters all The time it's bad but they include oologist I know but the reality is most people aren't listening anymore Define the untruth

I don't think that's working anymore because I think enough people have seen your work and enough people have heard you talk and they know that you're reasonable and intelligent and that there's something there and the more people look at these images the more people hear people like Flint just out andout lie to try to dismiss these Things it was most unfortunate I think he I think he let archaeology down very badly in the way that he manipulated that debate uh and and I'm sorry it's taken me so long to to to come back with the

with the factchecking but it was it was necessary to do and I I I I'm very grateful to a number of completely independent separate individuals on the internet who who have drawn attention to some of what uh Flint Flint did yeah one calls himself illegitimate scholar and The other calls himself dunking and and they got into this material very very early and helped me to understand how I'd been duped by this material cuz I took it I took it all at face value at the time well that's the beautiful thing about the internet yeah you

know there's uh there's a lot of people out there that are very invested in these ideas and exploring them and they also find it very uncomfortable that they're being confronted by These Scholars these people that are supposed to be the ones that are the experts in this area that are dismissing things that shouldn't be dismissed that are lying about statistics just just try to diffuse your argument yeah and there's also that feeling of being just being patronized by the so-called experts nobody wants to be patronized and and and feel that somebody else regards them as

too stupid to make up their own mind on something right and They think that somehow or another that exploring these ideas dismisses the legitimate work that archaeologists have already done which I don't think it does at all not at all archaeologists have done some fantastic work what I've realized that there's almost two different mindsets at work here in looking at the P I think Archaeology is very determined to demonstrate that it's a science that it's a hard science that it's completely rational that it's all Based on scientific method and and and anything that sounds unscientific

which include myths uh must be must be avoided um and also I do find that archaeology and it may be true in other Sciences as well well very reluctant to use the imagination the imagination is seen as a as a deadly threat uh whereas I think the imagination is really important thing in interpreting the past we we we should be open to possibilities rather than coming into what we confront with a Closed idea uh we should consider how it might have been what might have happened let's use our imagination and think about this think what

all this means think what that common iconography all around the world means rather than just saying oh it's a coincidence well in some places that's your only option like the culture where like we don't know well we we have these faces that don't look like yeah I mean it's it's it's confusing they look like maybe they're From Polynesia maybe they're from Africa could be Polynesia could be could be could be Africa um and and and then there are these other faces which I in the video I've I've put out I've shown some of these it's

not just myths of a bearded Foreigner turning up uh in in the Americas which flint dible and other archaeologists say were all concocted and invented by the the Spaniard we discussed that during the debate I have I have a real problem With that because that is patronizing to the indigenous people I think the myths were there amongst the indigenous people and I think the Spaniards saw how they could use them how they could manipulate them but I don't think they made up the myths and somehow imposed them upon the indigenous people who then believed that

they were their own myths uh I don't think they were that stupid they knew what their myths were well my my concern with that line of thinking is that we Seen evidence of that sort of destruction of the real history of people in America with how they forced Native Americans onto reservations and spoke forced them into speaking English and forced them into learning Christianity that we there was a concerted effort to erase their history and their culture and that the conquerors imposed that on the people that were there but this is a this is a

kind of conspiracy theory that's being Proposed that the Spanish Cortez and pizaro and others who were in involved in the conquest of the Americas that they got together and they created a fiction and then they made the indigenous people believe that fiction while accepting everything else that the indigenous people beli that was a fiction there's no document which says that Spaniards conspired to create these stories I I believe that when we find them in Mexico when we find them in Peru When we find them in Colombia when we find them in Bolivia we are looking

at indigenous traditions and I have no doubt that the Spanish saw those traditions and said we can use this we can take advantage of this we can exploit this but I don't think they made up the Traditions so it's possibly a myth of people that came over on ships that look different yeah yeah it's about that that's about what it comes to when you when you hear about things like the Lost city of Z when you hear about all the different times where European explorers did make it to the Americas and spread their disease is

like well you're going to miss from those folks too so who's to think that there wasn't multiple versions of that happened all throughout history yeah I suspect if it happened in the 1400s it probably happened a long long time ago as well yeah the whole thing is so interesting and it never ends and every now and Again a new discovery comes along that pushes back the date of humans in specific I mean look at the Dennis ens they only found out about them in like what 2010 or something like that very very recently I think

Santa and I went to denisova cave in 2013 crazy something like that so whole new Branch yeah of the pre previously unknown and and and and there's so much that's Unknown about our past oh I know what I wanted to bring up to you today because uh I saw This online maybe you could find it before I could pull it up Jamie because you're that good uh but the there's a a scientist that believes there's uh reason to believe that those uh Hobbit people in the island of Flores that they uh exist currently um so

this was uh yeah the hobbit-like species of early humans may still be living in the jungles of Indonesia interesting Theory yeah and Well that's another branch of the human chain that when when did they find out about this it wasn't that long ago either it certainly wasn't I think you're looking around 2000s 2010 maybe very very recent discovery I wonder what this the latest finish public on Tuesday journal Nature Communications follow the 2016 discovery of tiny arm bone and teeth um there's something that they these people are are considering I don't know why can see

is there any article That says they consider they're they're still alive today that's what this one is but that one no it's like a small version of Bigfoot among yeah this it this is two years old okay someone sent this to me yeah so why do they think that there's might still roam well this is just because of anecdotal stories right cuz there have been multiple stories that people that live in the the Deep rain Forest have said that they've encountered these why not why why why not why should why should it be impossible it

it has a parallel with the Bigfoot story of course a different size of creature but maybe creatures have survived which we think are extinct especially small populations of them that are very remote and very difficult to get there were reports of sighting by more than 30 eyewitnesses all of whom I spoke with directly and I conclude the Best way to explain that they told me what they told me is a nons sapiens hominin has survived on Flor as to the present or very recent times fascinating yeah I would love to hear their stories oh imagine

trying maybe AI could decipher their language imagine they found them you know how nutty it would be if they found a little 3-ft tall hairy human being that's still alive oh my goodness just for uh Clarity he made This claim and put out a book so okay feel like come read my book you know well it's a good thing to do if you have a good theory sure I know what you're saying though I know what you're saying yeah um I hope it's true of course of course of course because it's fun yeah it's fun

to hope it's true all of it's fun that's what I would what I'm so grateful to the universe for and so grateful to my readers for um is that I have been given This opportunity to live a fun life oh yeah and to travel the world and to investigate Mysteries and to put across my point of view on those on those Mysteries I couldn't do any of that if it wasn't for my readers I've never had sponsorship I've never sought anybody to fund me to do anything uh I started out massively in debt I've got

to the place now where I can travel whenever I want and and explore places and that's all down to my readers it's it's it's not Just me it's me and my readers that are making this this possible people and I'm enormously grateful to them and these days my my viewers as well you're a very lucky man I was going to say that earlier when you were talking about how you've never taken a vacation like well you haven't but your whole Life's a vacation exactly that's why I don't see I'm 74 years old now I don't

see myself retiring the idea of retirement is just out of the question you try to retire I'll go find you I'm going to go grab you drag I love some vitamins I love doing what I do and and I I hope it's contributed something something useful to the world rather than just flimflam I'm oh no it most certainly has it most certainly has um you know I first found out about you because of Fingerprints of the Gods and one of the things that I found Most Fascinating when I started going into your work was the

the idea That the Arc of the Covenant exists in in Ethiopia that's what brought me into this field I before that I wrote All About current affairs that story is so nuts and it sounds so ridiculous and people you go what the Ark of the covenant's real but then when you go into the history of these people that Liv there and they all suffered radiation poisoning and it's like wait a minute ccts over their eyes uh and and and let's let's not forget that there's An indigenous population of of Old Testament Jews in in Ethiopia

the falashas who have their own story about how the Ark of the Covenant got there right uh different from the Ethiopian National epic which is called the kein theast the glor the Glory of Kings that's why I got into this field I was a current affairs guy and ethiop was on my beat and I just kept on coming across this story and I realized it was Central to Ethiopian culture and I I decided to Investigate it and explore it and it led to the sign in the seal which was published in 1992 and that's what

set me on the path to Fingerprints of the Gods and everything that that that followed that so who is getting the cataracts uh the guardian of the Ark um this is a monk uh who is appointed this the place is axum in the province of Tigra in Northern Ethiopia it's a massive uh massively interesting place axum has these huge Granite Steely they're very Similar in many ways to ancient Egyptian obelisks they're a bit different in shape but same sort of height some of them going 110 ft high cut out of cut out of solid Granite

right up there in the highlands of of uh Ethiopia and then they have an ancient church the church of St Mary Cathedral actually of St Mary of Zion uh where the ark apparently was Kept For hundreds and hundreds of years before that it was kept elsewhere and then now it's been moved into a chapel That stands next to St Mary of Zion Cathedral and that Chapel is guarded uh by armed men the whole town is an armed camp that is that is protecting what they believe to be the Ark of the Covenant but it's guarded

particularly by one guy who is the official guardian of the Ark and he's elected uh by other monks to be the guardian of the Ark and and uh several of them have run away uh when they get that election because once you're elected as the guardian of the Ark when the previous one has died you're going to be kept in that Chapel forever you'll never you'll never be allowed to leave it so they're close to whatever this object is they're close to it and I met three of them over a succession of years because their

mortality is very once they're appointed they die very soon uh and they all have these cataracts over their eyes and they all blamed the object in that Chapel whether or not it's the ark uh for for For causing their blindness wow so it's uh and no one is going in there and trying to get to the bottom of it they won't let you they won't let you they won't they won't let you andbe them no it seems like someone should go look yeah what the hell is that yeah yeah what's in there I mean if

we really find out the Arc of the Covenant was an actual object uh I think it was an actual object and you think it was some nuclear Something or another like I don't know what it was it it I think it's what is rightly described as an out ofpl artifact um because if you look at the description in the book of Exodus the the very precise dimensions of it I think in modern terms we'd say 3' 9 in Long by 2' 3 in high and wide it's got a layer of gold it's got a layer

of wood it's got another layer of gold it's very precisely specified like a blueprint in the book of Exodus and then it does all This stuff it shoots out Jets of fire and kills completely innocent people uh it it it kills 50,000 Philistines in in the city of ashdod when they briefly capture it from the Israelites and make the mistake of treating it like a tourist object and they they open the Ark of the Covenant and look inside and suddenly everybody in that city is dying and what they're dying of is cancerous tumors this is

this is described in the in in in the Old Testament so it's it's Intriguing that this object is so precisely specified and is reported to have done these terrible things uh it's just insane that we know where it is well we know that E I believe Ethiopia has a very strong claim to it but that's all I can say cuz I've not seen it myself I've been right outside the door of that Sanctuary Chapel several times but did you bring a guer counter no that would be a good thought yeah yeah imagine it was going

nuts as you get Close that would be a good thought I mean it's not like it's going to be if it's radioactive it's not like it's going to be contained just this one small area you're going to have traces of it that leak out that's true they would be a good especially if people are getting cataracts from being in the room with it yeah and so three different people you talk to have cataracts yeah yeah and they and they all blame the arc and and one of them it's a resonant Phrase which sticks in my

memory I asked him why and he said the ark is a thing of fire just that did he describe it to you not be he he did describe it as a box rather like the biblical description unsurprisingly but uh did he describe what it looked like like the outside of it gold gold M gold wow uh and and of course gold is a very good insulator uh against radiation I don't want to go too far down this track to me to me the the the yeah the fascinating thing is that That Ethiopia is the only

country in the world that actually claims to have the Ark of the Covenant that it's Central to religion and culture uh in Ethiopia today that there's much to support that argument particularly in in the form of the falashas the Ethiopian Jews and their very ancient Traditions about how they got to Ethiopia in the first place uh in in context of all of that I think Ethiopia has a very a very good claim very interesting claim and that's why I Wrote a book about it that's that one to me is just like we know where it

is yeah that one to me is so crazy that someone is keeping that information from the rest of the humans yeah because if if we found out the Arc of the Covenant was in fact a real object and we know where it is and it does match the description in the Bible that kind of changes everything now all of a sudden the Bible is not just stories and myths the Bible is some sort Of a historical record yeah well let's not forget that one of the world's best known flood myths also comes from the Bible

which is which is the flood of Noah right uh which again is part of this worldwide tradition of which I am absolutely convinced Atlantis should be understood as a part of that worldwide tradition of a global flood and the loss of a former former civilization and again it's one of the reasons why I've done the work I've done over these years So when you're doing season two uh what did you learn from doing season one that you applied to season 2 was there anything different about the way about it def definitely um I have learned

from the criticisms of archaeologists uh and one of the first things that became very clear to me and they're absolutely right is we need more indigenous voices in this series and that's what we've made sure to do uh we have an amazing uh archaeologist indigenous archaeologist From Easter Ireland we we spent quite a bit of time filming in Easter isand and it's a strong this series doesn't do country by country episodes it's all merged together different bits of the story come together in each in each episode but uh a good chunk of it is on

Easter Island and and there Sonia HOA cardinali is uh an indigenous Easter Islander her married name is cardinali because she married an Italian guy uh and she gave us incredible material on On Easter Island and she revealed that that she and her team have found what are called banana phytoliths now are a minute part of the banana plant they've excavated them from a crater in Easter iseland uh and they've found that those are 3,000 years old now this is interesting for two reasons firstly bananas do not propagate uh naturally you can't get bananas to Easter

Island without human beings bringing them there that's how that's how they got there uh And and secondly the date that she's found 3,000-year old banana phytoliths in Easter Ireland blows out of the water the notion that Easter Island was only settled a thousand years ago or less uh which is which is the current idea of of archaeology again and again we've had indigenous guests on the show who have brought real important information to it amongst those geoglyphs uh in Brazil um we had a member of the appara people who who is a caretaker for those

geoglyphs And he talked to us about what is special to him about the geoglyphs about how this is a a sacred place to his tribe uh and and how they still gather there today uh and and and how they understand that is somehow connected to the journey to the next World to the journey of life after death and that then rings a bell in my mind of that whole idea of a journey to the afterlife and a portal through which we pass into that other realm uh we find that right There in Brazil so if

the Easter Island um if the island was settled at least 3,000 years AO do do we know where from well 3,000 years ago you're still within the period of the Polynesian expansion this is not the Ice Age this is this is more recent it's early in the Polynesian expansion rather than late the Easter Island was seen as was seen as a the one of the last places that the Polynesians got to this new evidence is Suggesting it may have been one of the first places that the Polynesians got to but the question that arises is

did they find the moai already in place when they came there even 3,000 years ago and I think there's a lot of a lot of evidence for that I think this is going to make archaeologists absolutely furious with me um but I hope that that I'm paying full respect to indigenous Traditions um we we had um an amazing Easter iseland Elder uh who told us the tradition of The Lost land of hea uh Easter iseland has its own flood myth they they say that there was a huge land in the Pacific Far Far Away called

hea and that it hiva and that it was destroyed in a flood cataclysm uh and that there were survivors specifically seven wise men that's another thing that is found all around the world it's found in ancient Sumer it's found in ancient Egypt it's found almost everywhere specific seven seven wise men who came and settled Easter Island after this great cataclysm uh so it's it's it's great to have indigenous testimony on that and then you have the mystery of the Easter Island script how did that happen how come how come this tiny Island which only ever

had a population of a few thousand did something that is normally only done by big civilizations which was create a written script but they have a script the Easter Island script and it's written on wooden boards and we learned That these were the boards we see today none of which by the way are in Easter Ireland now they're all in museums around the world they themselves were copies of copies of copies of earlier wooden boards that wore out and these things go back far into the remote past as far as the indigenous people of Easter

iseland are concerned um and and uh to have a fully formed elaborate script which nobody can interpret today you have to remember the tragic history Of Easter Island there was a point where Easter Island's population was reduced to just 11 people and it was reduced to 11 people by Peruvian slave raids they came and slaved the people of Easter Island and they took them to work in Peru and put them elsewhere in the in in the Pacific eventually there was a movement to restore them to their Homeland and gradually people came back but at one

point its population was reduced to 11 all the elders were wiped Out those who were the memory carriers and so what's left now is just a hint of a memory of these things but they they speak with awe of these uh tablets with this with the script on it and to me that is a sign again that there's something wrong with our understanding of Easter Island how can we how can we explain that this tiny little place produces its own written language why would it even need a written language when you can walk across the

island in You know three hours it wouldn't need to communicate in that way and yet it had its own script and the script we what is can we see what it looks like you find the Easter Island script Jamie if you look up the word rongorongo r NGO Rango rongo tablets one of the things that's interesting about AI is that they believe that AI is going to be able to determine or decide Cipher rather a bunch of different things that we currently can't there they are oh Wow it that's crazy it Bears some Curious it

Bears some Curious similarities to the indis valley script uh which has also not been deciphered and let's hope AI can decipher both of them look at that that's so and the way it runs the way it runs is you read from left to right along the top row then you go from right to left along the next row then you go from left to right along the next row and so on and so forth sort of snake like how do they know that um Because that's one of the memories that's been preserved by the Easter

Islanders and because of the way they all run on and what do they think it represents according to Leo the Elder who we talk to in Easter Island um it contains memories of the past it contains memories of the past in Easter isand instructions on how to navigate information about the stars and information about how to live as a community wow but in a language that we We don't know we don't know what it sound nobody knows it all we have is an oral tradition which itself is very fragmented and very faint because of that

reduction of Easter Island's population to just 11 people and the fact that the elders who were within historical times able to read these tablets were all wiped out how did they decipher Kun form cifor cfor I think because of its relationship to later languages which were which were known That's the I mean Kun form is a is a writing system you find the earliest version I think amongst the samans and then in in later Babylonian society as well um but but when you have a language and you have a language that it's related to that

you can read uh or where you have a text in two different languages but it's the same text then you're in a place where you can begin to translate it that's what the Rosetta Stone does in in ancient Egypt because Because we have it in the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph but we also have it in Greek and that's why suddenly the code of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs was cracked because of the Rosetta Stone well there isn't a Rosetta Stone for the Easter Island script or for the indis valy script um but I think in the case

of the Kun form there was something similar some context to place it in so the Easter Island these enormous statues one of the things they found and I don't Know when they started doing this they they dug deeper and deeper and deeper and found out that the heads that are above the surface are just a tiny part of it absolutely so do you think that just natural erosion that covered up everything else no you think was purp I think I I think it's it's a very complicated issue the the the issue of erosion uh it's

not so much erosion it's the deposition of sediment it's the deposition of sediment over time over Time and what we what we looking at with these Easter Island heads I was fortunate to know uh there we are and there's I was just going to say I was fortunate to know Tor hardal and there he is uh in the Blue Safari suit standing at the shoulder of the the of the Easter Island moai uh and you can see that the dark bit is the bit that was above ground and then they dig down and they find

that it goes down 30 ft underground this enormous thing uh and This is not as a result of uh of of um being exposed by erosion this is this had to be excavated in order to reveal it and the and the issue is on this tiny Island how much if if this thing is only 700 years old which is something that archaeologists often say 700 or a th000 years old if it's only that old how do you get 30 ft of sedimentation on this tiny Island in just 700 years it looks like a much longer

period that would be required to create that depth of Sedimentation that image back up again please so what do how much time do you think I mean has there been speculation like if it just natural layers of sediment being dropped down how long would it take to cover something like that well this is this is where I'd like to defer to the to the work of of Dr Robert shock who's who's a brilliant expert in this field we we invited Robert shock to to join us in season two of ancient apocalypse but he declined I

Think that's unfortunate because I think Robert shock has done breakthrough work uh on on Easter iseland and it's Robert shock who first first realized that this is a problem this this deep burial of these Statues by natural sedimentation is a problem it's a chronological problem that speaks to these statues being much older than we imagined they are are is Robert shock declining because of the criticism that he received about the Temple of the Sphinx um I'm I'm not sure why I doesn't want to deal with it anymore I've always I've always regarded Robert as a

good friend but he and I have not spoken since 2015 um on purpose well I would love to speak to Robert uh and and she try not to talk to you and I take I take every opportunity to express my admiration for him and Robert has been very brave uh he a credential geologist and he has stuck his neck out on the Spinx and a lot of people want to Cut his head off for for for doing that and I appreciate his courage and I appreciate his openness of mind and his willingness to get into

this but I don't know somewhere between 2013 we were still good friends we we traveled to Gung Padang together in 2013 what year did he do the podcast Jamie he did our podcast back in the day I want to say it was around 2015 2016 yeah six years ago Okay so 2018 years ago maybe that's why stop being your friend no I don't I don't I don't know why why it is maybe I did something that offended him sometimes sometimes I can be very unpleasant and can be very very you're a nice guy get out

here we we're we're all nice guys but some we all have a dark side and sometimes sometimes I I am very harsh and very I don't think I was with Robert I don't understand what the problem is between us he and I disagree Over the ca of the younger dras cataclysm Robert shock believes that it was a massive solar Outburst that brought this catastrophe about and he focuses on the end of the younger dras 11,600 years ago I'm more of the view that the comet research group is right and that we're looking at the effect

of largely of Air Bursts of large cometary fragments right across the surface of the Earth uh which caused the the younger driv why are they mutually Exclusive I don't see what no I don't see why they're mutually exclusive they I don't see one why one has to write off the other what we both agree on is that the dras between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago was an extraordinary Global cataclysm which changed everything which extinguished all the megap fora of the Ice Age We agree on that and we agree that it likely wiped out A Lost

Civilization of the ice age as well we disagree on the mechanism but I don't See why we shouldn't be friends for that so Robert if you're listening if you're listening please let's let's let's work together because we have we have many common enemies and and this is one of the problems with the alternative side is is that there's a lot of infighting in the alternative side and everybody's scrambling for their own bit of turf uh whereas the archaeological side they're very unified uh in terms of attacking what they call pseudoarchaeology they They they work as

a team uh and and uh that that teamwork makes them very efficient we're very inefficient on the alternative side well I I'm I'm assuming if I I shouldn't be assuming but I'm assuming it's the criticism probably wants to keep his job and he said everything he wants to say and I'm not sure uh I think Robert is open to to to doing television the fact is we we invited him to come to EAS Island and to to give his point of view and and and he Declined and and therefore he he he must have a

strong reason to do that oh I hope he still loves you but the um I hope so too what is has anybody speculated about how much time it would take to cover those Easter Island statues with thousands of years ch's view yeah thousands thousands of years 30 feet of dirt m MH remember it's a small island it's in the middle of Pacific Ocean it's 2,000 mil from Tahiti and 2,000 mil from the Coast of Peru just seems strange that there's so many of those statues in this one area too like what did that Island signify

like why did they do that was well it's what it calls itself T toena the naval of the earth it calls itself the naval of the earth and it's not the only place Delia in Greece calls itself the naval of the Earth heliopolis in Egypt close to Giza was a naval of the Earth Anor what in Cambodia is a naval of the earth gocke means the naval the Hill of the naval uh these these this notion of navels of the earth I think it's connected to an ancient geodetic survey of the earth that there were

certain anchor points that lines of longitude were drawn from by a civilization that didn't have our Tech didn't have our iPhones but did explore the world did sail the oceans and I'm not surprised that we haven't found their ships since we we haven't found the ships from those who sailed to Australia or for those who sailed to to Cyprus either uh but it had it had abilities that we do not attribute to period of that time and those abilities included the ability to calculate longitude something that our civilization didn't crack until the 18th century uh

and and uh I suggest it's only a theory that these multiple navels of the Earth around the world were fixed points on the Earth where longitude connections were made they were Established places so I do not think it's an accident that Anor wat is 72 degrees of longitude east of Giza uh because that number 72 occurs in ancient myths all around the world and is strongly connected to this phenomenon called precession of the equinoxes which um first of all it changes the pole star at the moment our the Earth wobbles on its axis but it's

a very slow wobble over 26,000 years uh it changes the poar now it's Polaris in the past it was Thuban in the past it was Draco but but but now it's now it's Polaris um because the extended North Pole of the earth is spiraling in the heavens and it's pointing at different bits of space over a roughly 26,000 year period 25,920 years to be exact one degree of procession takes 72 years to unfold um that's why the fact that the Rel relationship of the Great Pyramid to the Earth being on the scale of 1 to

43,200 is interesting if it was on the scale of 1 to 57,000 I couldn't care less but 43,200 is one of those numbers that we find in mythology and traditions all around the world um and and uh there's very solid scholarly backing for this in in a book I've mentioned to you before which is called Hamlet's Mill by Georgio de santiana and he of vesan Georgia was professor of History of Science at MIT they draw attention to this that there appears to have been a very ancient knowledge of this obscure astronomical Phenomenon which our culture

attributes to the Greeks and thinks only goes back a couple of thousand years santiana and vesan were of the view that it goes back to what they called some almost unbelievable ancestor civilization of the remote past how could they even know that that was happening like by what method could they make those calculations that the Earth wobbles on x axis every 26,000 years like you you have to pass you have to observe for More than one human lifetime you've got to you've got to keep observing and then extrapolate the wobble well you may have to

you may you may have to observe for hundreds of years in order to conclude that it's a wobble is another thing but to conclude that the the skies are changing at a regular fixed rate that's going to take observation over a few hundred years 72 years is is one human lifetime in that 72 years the the processional shift would be the Equivalent of the width of your finger held up to the Horizon very hard to note but if you extend it for several hundred years it'll be very clear that something is going on and what's

and what's going on is the constellation that rises behind the sun particularly notable at Key moments of the year the summer and winter solstice and the spring and Autumn Equinox and and the age in which we live uh as anybody of course astrology is another one of those things That archaeologists despise but as anybody who follows astrology will know we live in the dawning of the age of Aquarius and and that's because the sun on the Spring Equinox is within the next 150 years is going to move entirely out of Pisces where it sits at

the moment and is going to move into Aquarius the edge of Pisces with Pisces housing the sun on the Spring Equinox began around the time of Christ about just over 2,000 years ago uh and and before that it was The age of Aries we have all this Ram symbolism in ancient Egypt at that time before that it was the age of Taurus constellation of Taurus housing the sun all of this is a process that unfolds at the rate of one degree every 72 years so when I find that the Great Pyramid models the Earth on

a scale of 1 to 43,200 which is 72 * 600 I wake up and I think this is interesting and when I find the Anor one Naval of the earth is separated from Giza another Naval of the Earth by 72 degrees of longitude that Rings another Bell and I think that's something curious and worthy of exploration I think I think we also when we talk about ancient people studying the sky we we think of the sky today and our Sky unfortunately is burdened by light pollution almost everywhere anywhere their civilization it's very difficult to see

the stars whereas they had none of that and they were in constant awe of this thing that they Could see every night and they probably had a very detailed understanding of where everything was you know in a way that you're far more detailed than most people have today right because we we don't have access to it unless you're in like deep you know deep Wilderness and with a clear night sky the presence of the sky in our lives if we're living in a city is close to zero it's not zero but it's close to zero

bizarre yeah it's a bizarre Detachment that is propagated By technology oh yeah very very much so very weird right because it's actually dangerous for us yeah CU I think it makes us disconnected from the idea that we're connected totally to the universe and that that feeling of awe that you get when you see a completely star-filled night I um I've talked about this before but I'll say it again I was in um the the observatory in uh the big island in Hawaii and when you go up to the kek observatory the sky you go Through

the clouds and when you get up to the top and you look you can't believe that you could see it you can't believe I've been there three four times only once did we really catch it the last time was pretty good but one time we caught it perfectly where there was no moon in the sky and the sky was completely clear and it was astounding astounding yeah you feel like it's a windshield and you are on a spaceship and you're flying through deep space you See stars everywhere which beautiful way to put it that's exactly

what we are we're in a convertible we're in a convertable spaceship flying through the universe that's really what it is and you don't see it every day because of light pollution and I think it's one of the most it's one of the saddest things about our culture it's incredible that you can go out at night and you could see and you know drive and go to your Favorite restaurant go to the movies and all kinds of nice stuff but what's what we're trading off is literally our connection to this insanely beautiful thing yeah that hypnotizes

you with its awe it just you look at this if you get to go camping on a night where you see everything it's it's incredible it's one of the greatest things you could ever see and it used to be there for everybody and it used to be how they live their life it was an present Reality uh it was impossible to avoid it and and and that is why it's so crazy to say that the phenomenon like procession wasn't discovered until the Greeks about 2,200 years ago because the Ancients were living with those skies for

thousands and thousands of years before and they were paying very close attention to them there there's there's strong evidence that the the constellations of the zodiac were were not inventions of the Greek Greeks Either I mean in a sense the constellations aren't inventions because they they happen to be on the path of the sun the Zodiac are the constellations which roughly are in the place in the sky that the sun occupies through through the course of the year that's why we we see them but but there's there's increasing evidence that the the Greeks inherited that

and that the knowledge was very early and it may well go back into the upper Paleolithic There's this incredible figure of Taurus in the Hall of bulls at Lasco cave in France one of those cave paintings which shows the stars of the pades above the shoulder of the bull exactly where they should be M what what is the oldest version of astrology that we have well again you you know you have the official position on this and you have you have the unofficial the official position well the official position is that that it it's something

That developed during the time of the late Mesopotamians and the Greeks uh this this notion that somehow there was a connection between the the the sky events in the sky and and and what happens to us um but I think it's much Sher than that I think it's I think the the the idea that the sky in some way determines our Destinies uh is a very ancient idea not a not a recent idea uh and and it kind of makes sense I mean it's weird to think this I don't mean to Be um selfish to

the human race but we would not be here no human beings would be here if it were not for that whole vast Universe out there it's it it would be wrong to say that the Universe exists so that we can be right but but the fact as we would not be uh we're we're we're part of that huge Cosmos uh and you're right it's it's forgetting that we're part of the cosmos or or regarding the cosmos as something that we must conquer uh which is the modern mindset which is Which is most unhelpful yeah it's

I've always been fascinated by astrology not like the newspaper astrology like you're a cancer so that means this like but the idea that the time you were born the place on Earth you were born the where you were conceived all these play a factor in your personality and that this was somehow or another mapped out yeah by people thousands and thousands of years Ago I know a lot of people like to dismiss it as myth and I've been one of those people but part of me wonders if there is some sort of an impact that

look we know that the Gravity from the Moon affects the tides we know that we're mostly water we know that there's some sort of an effect that planets and gravity and stars must have on the entirety of the universe and the idea that these very bizarre biological entities that their personalities and Their existence is in some way motivated shaped or at least influenced by the position in the stars in which they were born is very interesting because people studied that [ __ ] for a long time if if was there was nothing to it why

would they why why have so many generations of people studied it I think it's a good question and what was the root of it like how the hell did they figure that out well it must come from a place where we feel connected to the universe and we Feel that the Universe influences us directly right uh not the way we look at it at the moment as sort of something out there that doesn't mean much to us except that we're going to conquer it with spaceships right you know and and go to the moon and

go to planets and things like that but but to see it as an everpresent reality we understand that we're affected by the climate on planet Earth we understand we're affected by the weather by the oceans by the winds We they have they affect us they affect our personalities so why shouldn't we be affected by the broader universe that that that surrounds us yeah it it does make sense but I've never heard anybody explain it have you ever talked to like a legitimate air quotes astrologer no I haven't it's not it's not been a central Focus

for me my my my central Focus has more been on the evidence for really precise ancient astronomy uh particularly amongst the ancient Egyptians but also fantastically Advanced amongst the Maya uh in uh Mexico as as as well and we have a big focus on the Maya uh in season 2 of ancient apocalypse and I I had was fortunate blessed to have a brilliant archaeologist Ed Barnhart uh who joined me there in pelen and he's not sneering at me he doesn't agree with everything I say he's very clear on that but he's not sneering at me

and he feel he feels that there's something useful Being contributed by this this approach and so so is it generally agreed that the there is a connection between the the methods or the the the design of the construction and the correlation between Star systems I don't follow the question quite is there is it agreed by archaeologists that the reason why these things are constructed in a very specific Direction and a very specific design that it is mirroring the cosmos I think that archaeologists are very Reluctant to accept the broader idea they are willing they can

hardly deny that some structures are specifically aligned to the equinoxial rising point of the Sun in other words duwi East and other structures are aligned to the rising or the setting of the sun on the summer or the winter solstice uh that cannot be denied Serpent Mound in Ohio is a classic example of that uh which is which is oriented precisely to the Setting Sun on the winter solstice um But the the broader idea that for example uh positions of stars in the sky might be replicated on the ground uh that's an idea that archaeology

completely Rejects and that's where I would like to pay tribute to my dear friend Robert Bal who's been very ill for the last many years but Robert Bal brought us the Orion correlation and my god did archaeology descend upon him like a ton of bricks for just noticing that the three Great Pyramids of Giza Are laid out on the ground in the pattern of the three stars of Orion's Belt and then when we work precession into the equation we find that they're not laid out in the pattern of Orion's Belt as it looked in 2,500

BC when the pyramids are supposed to have been built they're laid out in the pattern of Orion's Belt in 10,500 BC 12 a half thousand years ago so it's like a marker on the Giza Plateau speaking to that age just as pillar 43 at gockley tee speaks To that age when in the astronomical diagram on that on that pillar which also means that there would have been align 35,000 years ago as well yeah it that's right because it's a cycle yeah it go it goes back then the the Sphinx is another one of those right

yeah the Sphinx is another one the the Sphinx aligned with it it was looking at the Rising Sun and behind it the constellation of Leo 12 and a half thousand years ago but if you go back 25 26,000 years before that you'll find the same alignment occurring it it's a cycle it's not a one-off event it it's a cycle that occurs every 26,000 years it's a mindblower it's a mindblower and that's why John Anthony West I'm so glad you had him on your show a couple times before he passed he he was such a genius

and such a such a funny guy he I recommend um that to everybody that magical Egypt the two DVD series that he had they were amazing my wife hated them Cuz I was watching them so often you watched this Egypt thing again I couldn't stop yeah I probably watched it 30 times he was an absolute genius and and and John was of the view that the Sphinx is more than 30,000 years old ra rather than just 12 and a half thousand years old well that's what aligned so interestingly with Robert shock's analysis of the water

erosion that this is thousands of years of rainfall yeah yeah that's that's the Really important matter that Robert shock has brought to the table which no other person has dared to do now John Anthony West started that process he he was aware of a problem in the weathering of the Sphinx but he wasn't quite sure what the problem was he he was following up some writings by uh a scholar called schalla debik uh back in the 1920s or 1930s who' said something about water weathering on the Sphinx and so John brought Robert shock there to

gizer and Robert shock immediately recognized the weathering patterns on the Sphinx as the result of heavy rainfall exposure exposure to heavy rainfall for thousands of years and you have to go back to the younger drar to get that kind of heavy rainfall in Giza hence the notion that the that the Sphinx geologically whatever else we may say about it is 12,000 plus years old and it was courageous of Robert to do that he put his own career in Jeopardy just like Anybody who sticks their neck out in this field does he put his own career

in Jeopardy by standing up for a much older Sphinx and I I just hugely respect him for doing that I also thought it was really fascinating that he showed images cropped images of this water erosion to other geologists they all agreed it was water erosion until they figured out where it was there you go and they were like I'm not signing off on that that's that's right that's right because it's Just too controversial yeah they circle the wagons at a certain point and go after your career yeah yeah most unfortunately well we are very fortunate

that you're out there buddy thank you we really are and uh I love your show I love you you're always fun to talk to can I say appreciate you very much a couple of things about the show sure please first of all um thank you to the viewers of season 1 of ancient apocalypse and uh I hope you'll enjoy Season 2 I I hope we're bringing really important new information to the table and a special request if you do like it please give it a thumbs up on Netflix uh season 2 is all about the

Americas uh secondly I will be doing a speaking event in the US it'll be the only speaking event that I do in 2025 and that's going to be in Sedona 19th and 20th of April 202 that's a good place for it all those freaks yeah 19th and 20th of April 2025 and it's going to be called the fight for the PO because I believe that's what's uh that's what's going on here um so I hope that uh people will enjoy the show and and express that enjoyment that would be really really helpful I know they

will I know they will and the last the final thing I want to say is thank you to Keanu re thank you to Keanu re for joining me on the show Keanu reached out to me some years ago because he's making This incredible comic book series called Berserker be R ZR KR uh about an immortal Warrior who's born 880,000 years ago but has the power of a God and cannot be killed and back I think in at least two years ago Keanu reached out to me for some some advice some historical advice on where in

the world could such an individual have have been born 80,000 years ago and we talked about that and we exchanged emails and then we had some some nice Zoom conversations together That's cool and and and uh I sense that this is this is a very open-minded very curious very interesting person so when we were doing doing season 2 I I did ask him would you would would would you join me and speak about this and and speak about your curiosity of the past and and he knew what he was up against actually just before Kean

and I spent a day together filming for for season two of ancient apocalypse he'd watched the debate between me and Flint Dibble he Knew what he was facing getting getting into this but he had again the courage and the Integrity to stand up to Stand By Me uh in that story and I'm enormously grateful to him for doing that and I found along the way I suspected it when we knew each other just by zoom and by email I found along the way what an incredible gentleman keano Reeves is how kindhearted he is how humble

he is how he turned up for the shoot carrying his Own baggage um he he he he's just a gem of a human being and he he radiates kindness and decency and care and love towards others and I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to get to know him uh and I hope our PA will continue to cross in the future that's awesome above all I'm grateful to him shout out to Keanu he seems like an awesome guy he's an awesome guy he's everything that people say about K is right he's he's a great

man there he is there two of you Together y yeah all right Graham it's always a pleasure thank you sir appreciate you very much thanks Joe thanks for having me back on the show bye [Music] [Applause] [Music]