Menendez Brothers Trial: Full Abuse Testimony

Then call Joseph mandz your full name and spell your last name Joseph Lyall Menendez me ndez Mr Mendez are you related to Eric Galen Menendez who's seated here he's my brother and were your parents Mary Louise Menendez and Jose Menendez yes and were you born January 10th 1968 I was if you look to the right you will see various photographs of homes That you lived in um do you recognize that uh chart is something you've seen before yeah do you remember the Wexford Terrace home in which you are pictured in the bassinet the one in

New York no I don't and do you remember Cedar Grove New Jersey the second photograph no is the first home you remember Hinsdale Illinois yes for the record we have exib please well we'll get it later on that's The exhibit that um has U orograph various houses in it thank you thank you can you remember when you lived in hensdale Illinois yes and what do you remember from that point in time do you remember your father yes what do you remember about your dad from that period in time um I remember uh in the winter

and uh I I remember lots of Things do you have any particular good memories of your dad at that point in time yes could you tell us one I remember the little dog tress who was a puppy at that time I remember um um her and my dad playing in the snow and me running out to my dad and uh jumping on him and playing in the snow u i remember riding my bike did your Aunt Terry and Uncle Carlos live nearby they lived across the street and did they uh did you used to ride

your bike over to their house yes and do you remember your little brother living in that house with you yes and do you remember anything with regard to your little brother and him going over to your aunt and uncle's house I remember going over to get him when my mom told me he was over there he wasn't supposed to be go get him and bring him back and do you have good memories of Your mother also can you remember anything good about your mother yes what do you remember that's good about your mother I remember

in this house no not necessarily why don't you try to focus a little bit do you have a par something in particular that stands out in your mind that's a good memory of your mother I remember Christmases Her she was always up it seemed and she would be up uh when I got up and um then she would take us down to open the presents even though my dad would sleep in so we got to do that that was usually a nice day and uh I remember her taking care of the birds um that would

hit the window we especi this especially in Muny the birds would hit the window and be kind of like Hurt or wounded in some way she would put them in a special cage she had for birds that did that and she was just amazing with the birds I remember watching did you love your mom and dad yes and on August 20th 1989 did you and your brother kill your mother and father yes did you kill them for money answer no did you kill them because you wanted To pay them back for the way they had

treated you excuse me I that overall no why did you kill your parents cuz we were afraid do you have a lot of nice memories from your childhood no did you get to spend time at your grandparents house yes and was this Your father's mother and father said yes yes what was good about being at your grandparents house everything was good about it um my grandmother was wonderful and uh we stayed in bed all day and watch TV U just be like a never ending stream of foods that we weren't supposed to eat we watched

the uh my grandfather would come in whenever The Untouchables came on we Would watch that and it would be a big deal then we'd go out and uh the house was great she had a magnolia tree outside we'd climb up that uh play with her in that and there'd be a little patio that was enclosed and uh squirrels would be jumping from tree to tree and my grandfather would laugh and tell us stories and we'd watch that we'd go to garage sales with my grandmother um was there's lots of things was this Different from the

life you had in your own home it's like a different world from my house Lyle as you were growing up and I'm directing your attention now to when you were living in the Muny house and then later in the Pennington house were there pornographic films that were made available to you and your brother yes and where did these films come from my dad brought him home with other Videos and would you and your brother sneak and watch them or how would you see them no my my dad would we would just watch them together with

your dad and what's the earliest age that you remember being shown films like this I remember some films in m at the end mostly I remember in Pennington Pennington house and what types of things would be portrayed in these Films it was mostly violence sexual violence I remember a whole bunch of the films um there would be films with gang rapes uh there was one film sented around a a woman that was riding her bike and was abducted and brought to a forest and gang raped and uh there was another different film where there was

females pre females attacking another female in the same in The men's locker room with three guys and another guy um violent sexual acts and there was was another film that was it was like a film within a film where this filmmaker was making a lot of money uh selling these violent um sexual pornography that he would take place in a red room and then the premise of the film is they eventually find out that that the killings and the sexual violence in the Red Room is real and that's why the films are so good and

There were there were lots of did your father show these films to other people beside you and yourself and your mother only as like an uh just shock value how do you mean who would you show him to uh he showed him to um that I remember Peter Goldsmith um he showed him to the neighbors in the Pennington house When they would come over at times it seemed like he would tell me in advance he was going to do this and it was more to embarrass my mother than anything else but he would he would

just put on this video and people would sort of settle in and then he'd shock him um he showed him for uh uh some of my friends that would come over every once in a while he'd just throw one on and it it really wasn't very bothered by him and we would watch Them together do you ever take photographs of you and your brother yes and what would the circumstances be in which he would take photographs he would take photographs of us um of um our private parts and would he have you come in and

pose for these photographs how would that Happen um I would just if we're in the showers or bathtub or changing he would just he would just use the same camera that my mother used and then he would come in take just a photograph or two and uh he wouldn't say anything then he would leave do you ever show you those photos no excuse me I have phot how many are there and just for the Record what are the markings that you put on there we have may I do it from okay please refer to uh

all right Mr mandez I'm showing you a codec Color Prints envelope with the number 219 on it would you take a look at that do you recognize the handwriting on the front that's my mother's and what does it say Eric's birthday November 1976 and in November 1976 how old would you have been eight that's the Muny house for harlo Lane Mony New York is there anything in that envelope it's empty at this time your honor the next would be did you want to mark that envelope it's Mark 219 your honor all right the next would

be 220 which is a envelope containing negatives next is a series of small photographs 221 a g a through H and then we have enlargements of those photographs which we have marked 222 through 233 and we have a proof sheet of the negatives which we've marked as 220 which is marked as 234 Mr Mendez have you been shown this proof sheet already Yes I now have the enlargements which go in order off of the proof sheet off the negative Mr manes do you recognize this Photograph yes and who are the people in that photograph uh

Mom and Dad Myself uh the baral family children and and Aunt Terry and Uncle Carls could you just identify that for the record so that we don't 22 you all right showing you what we've marked as 223 do you recognize that photograph yes and who is that that's uh me 224 that's Eric 225 what was the answer I don't know it's nothing you're on right nobody can recognize it's just the next photo on The negative 226 that's Eric and myself and some other boys speak up some other boys and Eric and myself sorry and do

you recognize some mark on your brother the birth mark the birth mark on his right wrist it's a large large brown birth mark 227 that's my father and Eric had a birthday Party 228 that looks like the same party with Eric and myself 229 the same picture I think but darker 230 I'm the same picture basically 231 um looks like my mother in the background lower half of her and uh my brother with a donut 232 that's Eric how do you recognize Him a birth mark on his right hand and 233 that's the little dog

I was talking about tress may take a moment put the photos up yes now when you said that your dad would come in periodically and just pictures of the two photographs here we've marked one that you've identified as yourself and the other one is Eric children without clothes also Appear to be children withs is that correct yes and when he would take photographs of you of this nature seem to be directed at taking photos of your faces No would he he would take photographs of your genital area in the lower half of your body or

uh you bending over or just different parts of your positions is what I never really knew because you never saw them Afterward or he be focused on those areas but I didn't see the I've never seen these pictures is today the first time you've seen these pictures is that yes yes did your dad used to have talks with you about sex between men yes and what types of situations would he talk to you about he would uh talk About the bonding between men um uh going into battle or in competitions um mostly with regards to

battle and history and that uh sexual interaction and touch and um uh hugging but also sex was throughout history was something that men that had gone into battle had done together um had me read passages about it what do you mean had you read passages about it what would he give you to read excuse me A times please yes what time are we talking about in your life talking about one when I was six what would he have you read he had history books um with passages outlined various battles and uh strategy but um in

terms of on this um subject there would be particular passages about Greeks um soldiers having uh had sex with each Other before they went into battle as a way of bonding with each other so they have a stronger connection and he would talk about um the same thing with regards to uh Sports and uh and he and I and did he talk about fathers and their firstborn sons in this regard not in this not that that's what I don't I'm not understand the question did he Talk about you said he talked about soldiers and having

sex between them as a bonding mechanism yes did he talk about teachers and students no did he oh yes he did actually not teachers he talked to me about um I don't know what they were like lecturers or traveling lecturers professors and uh and they would have arrangements with very close special students young boys um and they would have sex and they Would touch each other and did he talk about it with regard to Fathers and Sons um he talked about it with regard to our relationship as being very special and our family history uh

with first the firstborn and the father and what was special about the relationship of the firstborn and the father that it was special and that uh that was really all that mattered was the first born and that the sons should do what the father Say and then they grow up and they they become like the father and the father teaches them molds them and uh and someday me and my son do the same and between the ages of six and 8 did your father have sexual contact with you yes and how did it start just

started with after Sports practices he would massage me and Uh we would have these talks and he would show me and he would uh fondle me and he would ask me to do the same with him and I would I would touch him we would undress um where would take place in my bedroom and how often would this happen like two or three times a week and for how long did this happen um not too Long began to change when did it begin to change I'm not sure sure exactly at what time but almost close

to when I was seven and how did it change just became more involved um what do you mean more involved um we would be in the bathroom and uh um it would he would put me on my knees and he would guide me all my movements And I would um uh have oral sex with him did you want to do this at some point did he do some other things to you yes what else did he do to you I used that objects um what kind of objects a toothbrush and some sort of Shaving utensil

Brush and what would he do with the toothbrush well this in the bedroom we'd have what we call object sessions and just slide my pants down or take my pants off um sometimes it would be short a short period of time sometimes longer just lay me on the bed and he'd have a tube of Vaseline and he just played with me and was there some point in time when he decided to use something besides the Toothbrush yes and did he try to anally penetrate you with something else he did and what was it he break

me did you cry yes did you bleed yes were you scared very did you ask him not to yes how did you ask him not to I just told him I don't I Don't I'm sorry I just told him that I didn't want to do this and that it hurt me and he said that he didn't mean to hurt me and he loved me was that important to you that he love you yes very but I still didn't want to do it did you tell your [Applause] Mom yes what did you say to your mom

I told her this to tell Dad to leave me alone and he keeps touching me what your mom saying she told me to stop it and that I was exaggerating and that my dad has to punish me when I do things wrong and she told me that he loved me did you ever tell anybody else when when did you ever tell anybody else When you were a child you heard Diane vandero when testify do you remember telling her no did you complain to your cousin Alan no not about that just about punishment as a child

did you ever tell anybody else what had happened with your dad um yes I was a child no why not I was afraid and my dad didn't want me to what did he tell you about telling people he just said that was our Secret that bad things would happen to me if I told anybody and I told him I never would how old were you when this stopped 8 so during the time between 6:00 and 8 when this was going on did you tell your brother did you do something to your brother yes what did

you do to your brother I took him out to the Woods whenever I felt I don't know I took him out sometimes and I took uh a toothbrush also and I played with ER in the same way and I'm sorry it stopped for you with your dad when you were eight when you were about 13 did you think that it might be happening to someone Else yes and who did you think it was happening to Eric and did you do something about it yes what did you do I talked to my dad what did you

say to your dad I told him that I knew what was going on with him and Eric and and I heard the noises and then that I wanted him to leave Eric Alone and what did he say to you he told me that Eric was that Eric made things up sometimes but that it that it would stop and uh he we should keep it just between us or he kill me did you ever tell anybody what you thought was going on no I told him I would never tell anybody I just wanted to Stop did

he tell you it would stop they did H that's as far as I have for today that's right all right do you want to take a recess then at this point all right ladies and gentlemen we will recess until Monday at 9:00 I want to remind all of you not to discuss this case among yourselves or with anyone else don't form any final opinions about this case don't permit yourself to be exposed To anything at all that relates to this case outside of the courtroom as I've uh said many times you must make your decision

based only on the evidence is presented to you in the courtroom and my instructions on the law we'll be in recess until Monday at 9:00 everyone have a good weekend we'll see you back here then did your mother's looks how she appeared to other people seem to be important to Her um she didn't take very good care of herself but it seemed to be important to her would she ask you how she looked yes and sometimes when she asked you how she looked would she be inappropriately attired she would be topless um usually just topless

or like an open rope and sometimes you know with her clothes On and what ages are you talking about where she would expose herself to this way overall um I was like I was about 11 she help you with your baths yes how would she help you with your baths she would uh come in after I'd been in there a while she would help wash my hair and uh wash wash me with a sponge how old are you talking about same 11 11 to like 11 to 13 and when she you say she would wash

you with the sponge would she just wash your back or um no she would uh wash me everywhere she would wash your jadal yes you slept in bed with your mom a lot didn't you even when you were little yes and did you continue to sleep in her bed around this time when you're 11 and 12 um sometimes and Sometimes did you touch your mom yes would your dad be in bed sometimes and where would you touch her um everywhere did she touch you back um she kissed me but she didn't touch me and how

long did these things go on for until I was uh 13 a little bit farther than That and when this was going on with your mom was she nicer to you than she used to be no uh she was worse and did it stop at some point it stopped um a few months after I was 13 who stopped it I did how did she react to that she was Furious and uh you know she couldn't be too much Worse but she harassed me and we just sort of had arguments about and problems about that for

a long time couple years was you really for my whole life cuz it came out in other ways too your relationship with your mother was never good before that is that correct no was it worse after that oh yeah she was just uh she was pretty much uh zeroed in on me after That very uh I don't know if she felt rejected I don't I don't know what she felt exactly but um it was just it was a constant uh attacking just basic were you angry with her also I angry I was I was very

um Angry I thought that it was unfair why was it unfair um because we were doing this and she was enjoying it and Uh I had was hoping that things were going to get better uh for a whole relationship and things might get better and she got worse did you think she was going to love you if you did these things um I took it to be love and uh that's what I want did you always have problems with her after that about your girlfriends um I always had problems with her with my girlfriends yes

And after after all of this stopped with your mother did she show you specifically that she was unhappy that it had stopped or she was angry about it you see her asked me what do you mean she harassed you it just kept um exposing herself picking me up in at the clubs with you know in a robe exposed leaving her underwear around Calling me into the room when she was she knew that she was you know changing asking me if uh if she looked pretty and call me a liar when I said yes um sometimes

she would be in a tantrum and then she would come over and she would um touch my face real gentle like she was going to kiss me and then and then she would go back into a range she was very upset And I think uh see I think maybe Diane being in the house later upset her more do you have a scar by your left eye yeah from the coffee table and your attention pict that's on the board 236 y excuse me do you recognize this picture Um I know I recognize who's in it who's

in it that's myself and tress and does something appear to be wrong with your left eye yeah that's the injury to my left eye that's the injury to my left eye when I got thrown into the coffee table what happened you got g into the coffee table um I was rough housing with my dad in The Muny house and uh and I grabbed his gentle was at one point Which he did to me a lot um but he just snapped as soon as I did that he he yanked me up and he said something but

I don't remember and threw me basically right it was only a couple feet but across the room into a coffee table and I split my eye open and uh was just a screaming and uh and he took me by the arm and he gave me to my mother and uh she actually we went to the hospital she comfort you no she was very Upset she was upset that I was rough housing with my dad and that uh that's what I get for Russ housing with my dad and I should know better and uh you know

and I got I did get the sense that uh maybe you know I always felt maybe she was sorry and she just wished it didn't happen or something and and so was attacking me in a response to not being able to say That but uh she was very harsh do you have another scar on your face below your lower lip um yes how old were you when you got that I was uh about 17 I think and how did that happen um I was in a tennis I was at a club with a coach of

mine and uh we were playing and my coach got called off the Let me okay go ahead coach called off the court um for a phone call and then he came back and said it's your dad father wants us to play outside and it was raining I said well you know it's raining and he said well it's not raining it basically almost stopped raining and he wants us to go out and he was very firm we should go out and dry the courts off because what am I doing practicing indoors when I've got a Tournament

Outdoors that weekend go out dry the courts play out there so a lot of times this coach would just now he won't know we'll just stay indoors but uh decided to go and do that and we uh went out to the courts in the public courts and we we brought a bunch of towels and we drive the courts and um we started playing and then well we wern't playing more than 5 minutes and my Dad pulled up in the limo came around around the side of the bushes came to a Stop we were like man

he must call from the car we thought he was at at his office in New York and he couldn't get there so he he pulled up and he got out and he was watching so we were relieved that we had been we had actually gone to the courts and uh we started we were very nervous whenever my dad was around especially my coach cuz my dad was very aggressive and um I had a sprayed my ankle and so I had an ankle problem um Still and I was playing with it and so I just wasn't

uh running as fast and my dad was ridiculing me and pushing me and saying you know what a baby look Brad he can't run fast look at him what a look at him all poor baby can't can't play tennis M can't run his ankle hurts he was doing that over and over and over and then finally I just I was so embarrassed and I just couldn't take it anymore and I Just I lost control and I told my dad why don't you just shut up and uh had you ever said anything like that to your

dad before no never and uh my my coach was just like like this and I looked at him my dad you couldn't believe the transformation of my dad he he just turned red and he didn't know what to do with himself he just he grabbed the ball and he threw it at me and uh the ball hit me could you have stepped out of the way yes why Didn't you I wanted the ball to hit me why just to because I had screwed up and uh I was hoping my dad just he lost control there

and he and I wanted to dissipated maybe you know if he was going to throw a ball at me I was going to make sure I got hit by the ball so I got hit by the ball and he he told me um to come over and I kind of walked up to him he led me over to the back of the car how did he lead you over to the back of the car um he just Grabbed me by the arm and Le me not didn't drag me or anything just my coach was right

there and uh put me in the back of the car as soon as I got in the back of the car he just punched me straight in the face and I went back against the window and he grabbed my neck he said don't ever embarrass me like that again or I'll kill you what did you do well I didn't do anything I just sat There I had blood all over my shirt I can't hear you move up what I asked you what you did I was in shock I didn't do anything I I nodded my

head and uh he he tightened his grip on my neck and he says is that perfectly clear and I said yes do you ever talk back to him again no I never talked back to him again and I didn't see my coach for almost a week and uh what happened to your Lip it split it split open completely and uh we went back home long drive home and I my mother basically attended me and uh we just put Gau and the whole thing when you got home did you get out of the car with your

dad or did he get out no he got out first I was really in shock and I just sat there I didn't know what the limo driver was going to do I didn't want him to see me I was embarrassed I didn't know what Brad was going to say later um I just sat in the car he got out immediately walked to the house let me back you up after he hit you in the face did you leave immediately or did your dad get out of the car oh he got out of the car left

me there and he went and he finished picking up the balls with Brad and apparently he told Brad I'm really sorry that this happened will Never happen again and uh so then eventually he soon as he picked up finish in the balls he came back he told the driver let's go were you crying I was sobbing and uh blood everywhere and just um staying near other door when you got home then you said your dad got out first your dad got out first right he Got out first he went into the house and then uh

he came back out to settle something with the driver and he told me come on and I I got out and we got my rackets out of the trunk and I went into the house and my mom was waiting for me and she had stuff ready take care of me she ask you what happened no she knew what happened my dad I'm sure my dad told her she say anything to you about it no she never said anything about it she get fight with your dad over it no Was it ever discussed Jack Foundation was

it ever discussed in your presence did you ever hear your mom and dad talk about it or your mom ask you anything about we just I thought maybe I was going to be going to the hospital and uh she said no no you don't need to go um it's going to be all it'll be fine and it was basically other than the scar that was left you were 16 17 years old I was 17 why didn't you hit your dad Back um just I just didn't hit my dad back were you mad at him no

I was uh in shock really cuz I hadn't been punched like that I hadn't been punched like that ever actually um and uh I just I mean there was I would never hit my dad back that would be crazy why and my dad was Just a very uh I just don't think uh I mean he would have I don't know what he would have done to me I wouldn't I would not have just hit my dad or or really got angry with my dad either he didn't tolerate that that's why that happened to my brother

when my brother said no and uh only my mother fought back with my dad nobody I ever saw in my life and uh And when he said that I believed him and uh he took the way people treated him very seriously and you did not treat my father with disrespect did you ever see anybody except you said your mother treat your father with with disrespect never and yeah some coaches might argue with him on the on tennis be about as far as he would tolerate those people usually got Fired your honor could we stop at

this point before I go into another section all right and you'll be ready with vot tomorrow morning yes sh okay ladies and gentlemen we'll recess until tomorrow at 9:00 don't discuss this case with anyone don't form any final opinions about it don't permit yourselves to be exposed to anything outside of the courtroom that in any way relates to this case and we'll see you all back here tomorrow at 9:00 yes I doe take Stand Eric gayen Menendez me n d EZ Mr Mendez you've been in this courtroom since the beginning of uh pre-trial hearings and

trial have you not yes I have are you aware of the idiosyncrasies of that microphone if you get too close it pops you do that yes if you get too far away we don't hear you that's right okay so would you put yourself at a middle distance if you can I think you should come in a little closer okay I'm I'm Fine okay all right Mr Menendez where do you live Los Angeles County jail and how long have you lived there 3 and 1/2 years and during the three and A2 years that you have lived

there how long on how many occasions have you been in sunshine 10 times overoll 10 times 10 times and uh for how long a period on each of those times 40 45 minutes and what's the last time you were in any four five 6 months ago is that why you're so pale probably you're not sick no you don't have any skin diseases no do you know who Dr William vicory is yes yes I do and how long have you known him over 3 years three and a half years and what is he by profession he's

uh a psychiatrist and is he someone you've seen regularly while in the jail yes He's he's my psychiatrist he's your psychiatrist yes I think you better come kind of closest thank you and uh does Dr Victory have you under a prescription for some medication currently yes and what is the name of the medication uh Xanax and what is your understanding of what it's for objection irrelevance overall uh for uh so that I can sleep and for my nerves are you a nervous Person sometimes and how often are you supposed to take the Zen twice a

day and are you you supposed to take it at night for sleep yes did you take it last night yes did you take it the night before the night before yes now are you also supposed to take it during the day yes I am have you not taken it today no I haven't and are you planning on taking It during the day so long as you testify yes you are I'm I'm planning on it yes do you know if you will no do you have some concerns about taking it while you're testone yes and why

don't you tell us what those concerns are uh I've been told that when you take Xanax um let me ask you something does it make you sleepy yes are you reluctant To take it when you need to be awake yes were you aware of the fact Mr Menendez that in 1987 1988 and 1989 your mother took Xanax yes do you know what the dosage is what the size of the pill is of the Xanax that you're supposed to take yes what is it uh 2525 milligram yeah a quarter of a milligram yes and that makes

you sleepy yes did you Uh strike that how long um strike that what's the first day that you resided in the Los Angeles County Jail March 11th or the night of the 10th or the 11th um 1990 and was that the day that you were arrested yes and where were you arrested at the uh uh LA airport Los Angeles International Airport yes and did detective Zer arrest you there yes I did and how did you come to be at Los Angeles International Airport I uh flew In from Miami and London and where had you started

out on that journey I was in Israel playing tennis and was your coach Mark hefin in Israel with you yes he was and did you fly from Israel to some place and then stop I flew from Israel to London and then from London to Miami and from Miami to La now did something happen did you hear something in Israel that caused you to make that flight yes I did and what had You heard uh my roommate um called me and told me that my brother had been arrested and your roommate's name was uh Noel nedley

and was Noel nedley a man yes and did you did Noel tell you or did you understand what your brother was arrested for I think he I think he told me yeah you knew it was with killing your parents Yes and when you learned that your and did you know your brother was charged or being charged or held on a murder charge uh I I assumed I mean I knew it was for the killing of my parents so I so you knew it would the charge would be murder yes did you learn before you left

Israel that allegations had been filed against your brother of special circumstances that made it a potential death penalty case yes no I'm not sure I knew that before I Left Israel but I knew that in London you knew at least that was the potential charges oh yes yes I knew that and how soon after hearing that your brother was arrested uh did you decide to leave Israel and come back to the United States immediately and did you expect that when you came back you would also be arrested yes did you understand there was a warrant

out for your arrest uh yes I did and did you understand you'd be Arrested for the same thing your brother was being held on yes did you ever consider during that period of time running away no did you consider hiding no did you consider fighting extradition from either Israel or England no I didn't I didn't want to fight extradition why because I wanted to be back with my brother Why Mr Mendez you've heard the testimony of your brother that you and he killed your parents on August 20th 1989 did you not yes we did and

what do you believe was the originating cause of you and your brother ultimately winding up shooting your parents um me telling you telling what me telling Lyall that uh you telling Lyall What was it you telling Lyall about something that was happening my dad okay my dad can I ask leading question if you don't ask my dad wait one second okay let me ask no no he was in the process of answering so there's no need to ask him can you answer the question yes okay was you telling Li what my dad had been molesting

me And did you want something from your brother is that why you told him it's just I wanted to stop were you seeking help from your brother yes and when you were in Israel in 1990 did you feel that seeking help from your brother was why your brother was in jail [Applause] yes in the summer of 1989 Mr Man did you Live with your parents Jose and Mary Louise Menendez yes I did and how old were you I was 18 years old and had you always lived with your parents your whole life yes you had

never been sent away to school boarding school or anything like that no had you on a couple of occasions gone away to camp for a week at a time yes other than that did you always live with your folks I yes I did and in fact as of that summer of 1989 had you taken all of your vacations with your parents yes had you ever been an exchange student or studied away from from the city in which they lived no during the years 1986 1987 1988 were you aware of the fact that your Mother was

in a noticeable emotional State a lot yes were you aware of the fact that your mother took medication this is leing overall as to that question yeah I knew she took medication did you see her doing that yes what's what was the form of the medication that she took was it a liquid was it P it was pills during the summer of 1989 did that change yes did you see your mother Taking her medication during that summer or did you notice that she wasn't no she had stopped taking it and had at the same time

that you realized she had stopped taking the medication did you see any increase in her very emotional states yes Mr Menendez during the summer of 1989 were you being sexually molested by your Father Yes and when did that begin how old were you I was 6 years old now you have seen you've seen a series of photographs that we put up on the board some weeks ago series is 223 to 230 FR of once you look through those so tell me if you remember seeing Those when they were last put up in this St yes

I yeah yes are those pictures of your sixth birthday party yes other scenes of that okay yes now do you know can you remember whether or not the molestation began before or after your sixth birthday Party um I was right around then I believe it was just after excuse me I believe it was just after after mhm and where were you living at the time um Mony you've seen the chart that we have used to identify the houses yes you recognize the Muny house from that chart yes and was that house in quite a wooded

area yes it Was can you say Mr Mendez that you can you say that you actually remember your sixth birthday party no you don't I remember a birthday party but I mean but you don't know if you remember that one no they're stuck together excuse me photograph Mr Mendez you recall seeing a photograph in this series of your body Naked yes do you remember that photograph being taken um I remember a lot of photographs being taken and I don't remember that specific one the types of photo well you your parents both took a lot of

photographs of you and your brother is that right yes do you remember naked photographs being taken yes and who would take the naked ones my dad but you don't remember that specific one being said no do you recall when it was That you first saw or shown that naked photograph of yourself um just before I got to court with while you've been in jail yes how long from the from the time you were six when you say your father started to molest you um how long did that go on 12 years and were there episodes

of sexual activity with your father over that last summer Yes over the course of the 12 years did the type of sexual activity that your father engaged in with you vary and change yes were there patterns to the behavior so that there were actually different kinds of sexual incidents with your father overall yes and did you come over the years to give those different kinds of sexual incidents names yes and would you tell us what Were the names that you gave to those different types of incidents um knees uh knees knees k n EES yes

that was one type yes what was another type um nice SE nice sex nice sex what was another kind um rough sex rough sex and was there another kind still yes and what name did you come to give that kind just sex you called that sex yes and was that that you called sex some Form of intercourse you yes when before your father died was the last incident of what you called sex um in May of what year 1989 and when before your father died was the last incident of of knees in August of what

year 1989 and that last incident of knees took place in what location my bedroom the bedroom that detective Zer was just identifying photographs Of yes over the course of those 12 years between age 6 and age 18 where did most of the sexual incidents with your father take place in my bedroom starting at which house and myy and did episodes of sexual activity between yourself and your father also take place in the next house you lived in on M Road yes and did similar incidents occur when you lived in the House in Pennington on Lake

Shore Drive yes and were there incidents in the fancy house on Mountain Avenue in Princeton yes and were there incidents in the rented house in Calabasas yes and were there incidents in the big mansion in Beverly Hills yes going to just put this in the uh just show this is the naked picture of you that you were testifying about yes do it embarrass you this picture Yes what exhibit number was that your honor that one is um 232 now how important was this idea in your mind that going to college would end the molestation by

your father how important was it yes how significant a notion was this it was the most important thing in my life it was everything my life it was all I thought about why was it all you thought about I don't understand all Right why was it all I thought about yeah because it would end the sex and that's all I thought about how did you feel at 18 about the fact that your father was having sex with you I hated it I hated it I hated it and what did you think your options were with

respect to sex with your father uh options I had no options well let me ask you this did you over the course of that well did you over the Course of the preceding 3 years ever consider killing yourself yes and what was the reason as far as you understood it why you thought about killing yourself because of would end the sex and that's all I wanted and had you ever tried to end the sex through confrontation or violence against your father Yes yes you were violent towards your father no not violence no but I Said

no to him once you said no once yes how how old were you when you said no I was 17 and was there a reason that you gave him for saying no not that I gave him was there a reason though yes what was the reason I just I couldn't take it anymore I didn't I didn't want it anymore and I I was really in a bad state that day and he just walked in the room and I Said no he walked in the room and there was certain signals and things that he would do

which we'll get to later about that told you that sex was Council let's not leave the witness okay were there certain things or signals that he did when he walked into your room that told you that he wanted sex of some kind yes and did any of those things happen on that day when you said no yes now without going into the details of it um on that particular occasion after you Said no did your father become upset yes and did he do anything violent yes and would you just tell us not what happened but

just generically what violent things did you do he threw me on the bed and uh went to get a knife and uh put it at my throat Put The Knife to your throat yes and was there sex with your father that day yes was it that Fourth Kind that you called yes sex now after you returned in the summer Of 1989 in August from Kalamazoo uh did you have two separate talks with your father concerning your future in college uh yes could could you tell us first of all about the first such talk do you

remember how it took place yes and what did he uh what was the conversation about uh it was about what I was going to do uh in college after College so about what you were going to do in college and after college okay and what uh who was uh who was doing the talking were you telling your dad what you were going to do in college my father was telling me that uh um after college he wanted he wanted me to take um uh business and economics as my major and after college he wanted me

to take this uh I guess a special program at UCLA this business uh law school program um that combined it in a certain amount Of years and uh and then after that he said that we were going to or he was going to move to Florida right at the end of that and we were all going to go into business he was going to go into business with me who's we all Lyle mom me Dad okay so he was telling you what your future was going to be yes is this the future you had planned

for yourself no but I mean I hadn't really planned a future for Myself you hadn't decided what kind of work or career you were going to do had you no I I didn't know what I was going to do and was your father presenting this to you as an idea that he wanted you to think about or was this a done thing no this is what I was going to do and what else did he say about how you were going to deal with college in that conversation he told me that he told me that

I was going to be Staying home uh a few nights a week that I was going to have my bedroom uh where it was and it was going to be my bedroom and that he wanted me to come home and uh and eat and and study with him several nights a week so that my grades would uh would stay up and that he would be able to keep a prized of what was going on now was that a significant piece of information for you yes and how did you react to hearing that he expected you

to sleep at home I asked Him what he meant what he meant I was going to be staying home with my bedroom there and so on and he said that he I was going to be sleeping home several nights a week so that I could at dinner and after dinner go over my work with him and I I couldn't accept what he was saying what do you mean you couldn't accept it you said no Dad I'm not going to do that is that what happened no I just kept asking him what he what he what

he meant He I couldn't accept what he he was saying why because he was saying I was going to have to live at home as well as living at college and and what I didn't expect that okay you didn't expect that did you like that idea I hated the idea because my my entire dream had been to go to college and to leave home and uh and for the last several years all I thought about was going to college and uh and suddenly he was telling me that I Was going to be living at home

and that the the uh well what did you think that meant with respect and finish the answer did you finish your answer no go ahead uh and he was going to be telling me that I was going to be living at home and that the uh basically the sex was going to continue did he say the sex is going to continue no he didn't say that but that's what I knew meant that's what you believed it meant yes and how did That make you feel it it just it it made me feel lost it made

me feel like like I can't I can't I it made me feel like the hope that I had was gone and that suddenly I was going to this was going to continue throughout college and I felt like I was like I was crumbling I I couldn't I felt like nothing mattered anymore that it was going to continue emotionally what did you convey To your father during this meeting if anything how did you visibly react act I guess I just acted stunned I uh I don't know how I reacted did you cry uh no did you

ask him if you couldn't stay at school or take other classes no I knew what he was saying and uh and I knew there was no arguing about it I asked him what he meant several times and he he spelled it out for me pretty clearly and I I just realized what he was saying And do you recall what time of day this particular conversation took place yes when was it uh late afternoon and after that conversation what did you do I went up to my bedroom and what did you do I just laid in

my bed and cried and felt sorry for myself what were you sorry about I was sorry that it was going to continue that I wasn't going to get away from college and uh I just didn't care About life anymore I didn't care about things that were going to happen I I couldn't let this this go on with my father and I didn't know what to do well what did you consider I consider just killing myself did you consider killing your father no not at that time were you feeling angry were you feeling depressed were you

feeling sad what were you feeling at that point I was extremely sad uh I felt like nothing Mattered anymore I felt like the one thing that I'd been living for suddenly was taken away from me and I didn't care about life anymore was your social life better when you lived in California versus when you lived in New Jersey or was it worse or was it the same it was better and what was different about your social life in California than when you lived in New Jersey I had a lot more friends I was able to

go out with my Friends I would was able to hang out with my friends and suddenly I was I felt more important I felt you po the mic I felt more important okay did you feel liked by friends yes during those years in California did did you ever think about what would happen if any of your friends knew I just did you think about that I I thought about it all the time and what did you think I couldn't accept the fact that They might be able to find out I was never going to let

them find out and that's just all I thought I never found out I never thought about what would happen if they knew because that just was not going to happen well were you concerned about people knowing yes okay did you you want them to know or did you not want them to know no I did not want them to know why overall why didn't you want them to know can we specify what it is that he Didn't want them to know why did you not want them to know that you were a boy who had

sex with his father because I didn't want to be humiliated I didn't I didn't want to I didn't want I wanted them to like me I wanted them to think that I was a friend of theirs and I didn't I just wanted to be one of them one of the boys yeah did you think what was happening with you and your father was normal or abnormal I knew it was Extremely abnormal and I wasn't going to let anyone find out did you think what was happening with your father was all his fault or did you

think it was partly your fault no I thought it was partly my fault in what way was it your fault that I never stopped him and then I let it go on and uh just those reasons did you have a high opinion of yourself because of what was going on with your father a low opinion no opinion I thought I was a Coward what else I hated myself for it and I uh I knew I should have stopped it okay now what did you do after you went through this period of feeling sad and feeling

sorry for yourself I just cried a lot and uh decided to leave to leave to leave I decided to go over to a friend's house you mean to leave the house yes and what Did you do based on that decision if anything I packed my bags back up a little I started to pack a a big bag uh duffel bag a big duffel bag one of my tennis bags okay how long were you planning to stay at a friend's house just for a few days and had you ever done that before I had stayed at

a friend's house for a day but never for a few days no did you think your parents would let you I really didn't Care so you packed this tennis bag yes did something happen while you were in the process of packing it yes what happened my mom came uh into the room she knocked on the door and uh I opened it and she saw what I was doing and why didn't she just walk in why did you have to open the door I was kept my door locked did everybody in that house always keep their

doors locked yes and after your mother came in what happened Next she uh she looked at what I was doing and she said where the hell do you think you're going mhm and I said just for friends house for a few days and she said no you're not and she just started throwing the clothes out of The Duffer bag and um and what did you do I just watched and what happened after that she screamed uh and uh said a few more things about how I wasn't going to leave and uh and then she ran

out of the Room she ran out of the room marched marched she ran and marched out of the room she left the room in a hurry yes was she what kind of emot condition was she in when she left she was very angry why was she angry we had had the we had had a a fight before a year before about it a fight with whom we had an argument um with my mom uh a year before the same sort of argument about what about running away a year before there was an argument about running

away Yes well did you tell your mother on this occasion I'm running away I'm going forever no that was the year before on this occasion where did you tell you were going I just told her I was going over to my friend's house for a few days did you tell her why no did she ask why no I just knew as soon as she walked in the room that there was going to be a problem and I didn't even bother well what was her emotional Condition I'm not clear was she upset was she sad was

she in despair that she walked in the room when she walked out of the room she was Furious she was angry she was angry yes okay did you have permission to run away from home no was she angry the year before when you told her you wanted to do that yes and after your mother left the room angry did someone else come to your room yes and who was that my father and uh did he say anything to you Yes what did he say he asked me if I had a problem and uh he asked

me what I thought I was doing and um pushed me against he pushed me against the window and I came up real close and he said uh you planning on going somewhere and I said now are you remembering this verbatim you remember every word he said no I just remember the feeling that I had and and uh what he did is this the substance of the Conversation yes okay and and what else if anything what what were the other things he said he told me that he was leaving this week and that uh I had

better be there when I get back when you get back when he gets back okay he said that he was leaving that week and uh and that he would deal with me then deal with you when when he got back and what did that mean to you I figured uh what it would mean I figured that it would mean that uh he Would punish me in some way Mr mandz you have to sit back you keep popping your mic try to sit back I figured that it would mean he would punish me in some way

and in the way he always did it wasn't what in the way he always did did he strike you during this uh conversation no and how did you feel after he left were you still going to pack and go to a friend's house no I just you see the state I was in at the time I just didn't care it just after my Dad told me that I was that I wasn't going to get away from him at in essence instead of going to college that I was going to have to stay at home several

nights a week I just didn't care it nothing seemed to matter to me anymore and and life just seemed to fold right in front of me and I I didn't care whether he me I didn't care whether he I didn't care whether he killed me I didn't it didn't matter to me anymore cuz if I wasn't going to get away from From that then who cared and uh so he did what he wanted didn't matter anymore well are those the thoughts that went through your mind after he left uh those were the thoughts that were

there the whole day and the next day okay and were you then getting uh ready to put up with the same activity for the next few years that you had been putting up with for the previous 12 no what were you thinking of Doing I was thinking of just killing myself I was in a days and I didn't know what to do and I just I just wanted to die I didn't life no longer mattered and uh I didn't know what to do I thought of telling ly I thought of I thought I couldn't do

that that it would be too embarrassing and that I couldn't admit it and I just I just so two things occurred to you one to kill yourself and the other to tell Lyle yes over the years the 12 years had You ever told ly no were you ever accused by your father of having told Lyall yes and approximately when was that I was about 11: when you were about 11 yeah la would have been 13 or 14 somewhere right around there and on that occasion when your father accused you of telling La was it true

had you told him no now on this occasion you said you considered telling ly yes what do you Think L could do I really didn't know I really didn't it wasn't a a thought that I had planned out it was just a thought because I didn't really want to die and I was very afraid that I would and uh maybe it was partly to to to tell ly because that's what my dad always never wanted me to do I I I don't know I just I needed help in some way and I just thought about

town L did you think about ways to kill yourself yes What way did you think about I thought about just hanging myself I thought about cutting my wrists I thought about driving off a cliff something that I wanted to do before now at this time in your life Mr Mendez when you lived in Muny um and you were about 6 years old yes how would you describe um your relationship with your father in this sense of how did what did you think your father thought of you I didn't Think he liked me very much and

why was that because I used to cry a lot and because I wasn't I wasn't as strong as ly and I wasn't as good as Lyall in the things he wanted me to do and how did he express any well did he Express in any way that he didn't like you very much in your mind yes what kinds of things did he do that made you believe he didn't like you very much he told me that I was a [ __ ] that I was a coward and that I wasn't good enough enough to be

in the Family he hit me he hit me with the belt he he did all kinds of things now at some point in your sixth well strike that did you see a different relationship between Lyle and your father yes now did you did your father also hit Lyall yes was he also mean to Lyall sometimes yes but what was it your father said or did that was different with respect to Lyall than with respect to you I don't know he just seemed to care more about Lyall um in my mind it Was pretty clear and

were you happy being Eric the number two son in that family what did you want to be I wanted to be like Lyall I wanted to be um as good as Lyall I wanted to be liked as much as L now did something happen during your sixth year with your father that made you think that perhaps your father did like you after all yes and and uh could you tell us what started happening during your sixth year that led you to believe that Um he uh he used to um come into my room and uh

give me massages now when you say your room did you share a room with Lyle yes during this time when you were six um how old was Lyle uh Lyall was I guess nine and was Lyall very involved in competitive Sports at that time yes and were there any times when L was not home when you were uh yes and when your father would Come into your room to give you massages would Lyall be present yes in the room no ly would be home was he always home yes I thought you just said there were

times when Lyall was not home M there were okay just rephrase the question s okay were there times when Lyall was not home when you were home alone with your father Yes were there times when Lyle was not home when you were home alone with your father and your father was Giving you massages yes and were there times when your father was giving you massages when Lyall was home yes okay and would the same be true of your mother yes would she be home sometimes she was out with Lyle um sometimes she was home it

really didn't matter at that time if your father were alone in a room with you would other people enter or leave the room during the time that your father was there no would it matter what Your father was doing in the room in other words it didn't matter if he was hitting me or if he was just talking to me or if he was giving me massages no one ever entered the room my dad was alone with me and was the same true when your dad was alone with your brother for whatever purpose yes so

your mother mainly you're saying your mother never went into your bedroom whether you were in there or Lyall was in there when your father was Alone with one of you no s stay answer stren did you ever see your mother in enter your bedroom when you were there with your father no did you ever hear your mother knock on the door of your bedroom when you were alone in there with your father no my mother never came and what about when Lyle was in the bedroom with your father no she told me not to go

near the door did you ever see her go near the door No now Mr Mendez these massages that your father gave you in your room in in Muny was this the first time your father had ever massaged you in any way no what were the previous massages like and where did they occur uh at swimming he would massage my legs my thighs my calves to get me ready to go swimming and the massages in your room how did they begin what types of massages were they in the beginning just a body massages Like what you

got for swimming similar he would have me strip off my clothes until I was just wearing my underwear and lie down on my stomach and would he tell you why he was massaging you yes what would he say he would say it's just to relieve the stress because he would say that the stress built up because of sports and there there was so much uh tension and and uh stress that I would need to do this to relax and at some point while You were still living at Muny did the massages change in character in

any way yes and what was the change um he had me take off my underwear and when you took off your underwear did he do things that he had not done before yes what did he do um he would have me turn over onto my back okay what would he do he would massage my genitals and did that go on I mean how frequent were these masses two three times a month and was There a period when the massages would be what you've just described and then they changed again something new was added I don't

understand when your father massaged your genitals as you've just described was he using his hands yes at some point after that did he start doing something else yeah very soon after I I don't even really distinguish between times um what was the next type of activity called what did he call it uh massaging me with His mouth and what part of your body would he massage with his mouth my penis and how did your father behave with you when these massages were taking place how did he treat you he was great um he was he

was kind uh he never said anything negative to me uh he told me that I was part of the family and that that I belonged and that this was this was good and did he tell you anything about the activity he Was engaged in with you did he tell you anything about the massages what were they they were to relieve the stress and the tension and that's what they were there for were they something that you were supposed to tell everybody about no of course not why do you say for well well he explained to

me very clearly this was something between us and what he said is that this would stop if I told anyone and that I wouldn't be alone with him Anymore and then I wouldn't get this attention so he told you to keep it a secret yes um and did you want it to stop no why because it was the only time I got to uh spend alone with my dad it was the only time I got to be with with him and and for him to be nice and caring with me so did that make you

feel better about your relationship with your father these massages that were happening made me feel Like overall your answer made me feel like I had a relationship with my dad now apart from these times when he was alone with you doing these massages did he treat you better than he had in the past yes he he he seemed to care about me he seemed to love me and uh and that's all that I wanted now is that both when he's doing the massages and at all other times in other words did he suddenly become nice

to you all the time no only When he was in the room my question is when he was not in the room how was his behavior towards you he was like he always was he was mean he was sarcastic he didn't seem to care about me very much he was just like he normally was and strike that now for as long from from the beginning of these massages in your room for as long as you lived in man did your father do the things that you've Already described these hand and mouth massages yes at some

point you recall the family moved to New Jersey yes and do you recall any activity like this this massages type activity occurring uh in the house on I canot remember if it's north or south but milroad yes and was it the same kind of activity the hand and mouth massages um yeah it was similar it changed at one point but Uh it was the same type of activity now in addition to that activity which was what he was doing to you uh had he at any point while you lived in Muny uh started asking you

to do things to him yes and up until the point when you left myy what sorts of things did he have you do to him um he was just asking me to massage uh his body with his back he used to have his underwear on and he never took it off just his legs and his um back and Shoulders now at some point Mr Mendez did the massages that you were doing on your father change yes and did was there an occasion when he asked you to do something new yes and what was it would

you tell us what it was that he asked you to do um he took off his underwear and it uh he had never done that before and uh he had me massage the front of him and so I started I massaged his calves and his thighs and and I and I Skipped over um his genitals because I didn't I didn't want to touch him and I just went to his stomach and he said no and did you understand what he meant yes and what what happened next I just touched him and did anything else happen

after you you touched his genitals yes and did anything else happen yes what happened I started to rub him and then he told me to massage him with his mouth with his mouth with my Mouth and do you remember whether or not at that point your father had an erection yes he did and how did you feel about his asking you to massage him with your mouth I didn't want to do that because I I'd never um I had never seen him like that and I didn't quite I didn't want to do it did it

frighten you yes did you uh therefore refuse and that Ended things no I I wanted this time to go on with my dad I didn't want it to end so I was going to do what he said I just didn't want to do all things did you do what he asked you to do during that session yes and what happened when you tried to do that I uh I gagged he put his hand on my head and and he shoved my my my head on his on his penis and it went in too far and

I tried to push away and he he just did it he tried to be calm about it and Be nice but it was just it was too big and it was too far inside me and I just pulled away now did he get angry or upset with you on that occasion no so it was still nice no I mean it was it was it was nice to be with him I didn't like what I was doing but I figured that it was just me and then I would get used to it I didn't think my

dad was doing something wrong um did you think anything that had happened up till then was wrong or Unnatural or abnormal or weird or anything like that no did your dad strike that excuse me AR did your father uh talk to you about whether what was going on between um you and and he was okay or right or normal or historical or anything like that yes he said it was something that was supposed to happen and um he often referred to ancient times in the Romans and the Greeks and and how they used to have

sex Before battle and and talk about how this was natural this was supposed to happen and did you um now you're about how old now 7 8 uh I'm in the north Mill House so you're about seven yes do you think your father was a real smart guy when you were seven yes did you feel your father was very knowledgeable I thought he knew everything did you believe everything he told you yes and so did you believe that what he Told you about this was true yes and did you continue to believe that for a

while I believe that for a long time now this uh strike that after the north Mill Road House the family then moved to Pennington yes and the activities that you've now described uh did they continue in the Pennington house yes did you have a room of your own in the north millroad house yes and did you continue to have a room of your Own in the Pennington house yes and the activity that you've described so far with your father giving you two kinds of massages and you giving him two kinds of massages did that continue

the same uh when you you were in the Pennington house yes I didn't think of it as two kinds of massages though well I know I'm calling it that for now okay after this occasion when your Father um asked you to do a mouth massage did he continue to ask you to do massages with your hand yes and were there other episodes of mouth massages where you were doing that for your father it would be one and the other one after another and was he continuing to do the two kinds of massages to you yes

he would almost always um come in my room and do it to Me first and then I would just follow whatever he was doing so you tried to do to him what he was doing to you yes that's what I did and at some point did the nature of these incidents change did he either stop doing certain things he had been doing did he start doing other things did he have you do other things yes okay tell me what the change was he uh he started using uh different tools And wanting me to um do

things to him so that he would show me how and he would do them to me and so so on what do you mean by tools he had this wooden uh it's about this long and had a little knob at the end and it was roundish and uh uh he would tell me to use that on myself and he would show me how to use it on him and then he would use it on me and what part of your body were you supposed to use this thing on My uh my butt and did this

uh use of this tool continue over a period of time only a short time until he started uh showing me how to use uh my penis I didn't call it that at the time but it's what it was and he started to show you how to use your penis to do something to him yes uh all right Mr Mendez do you have some idea of Approximately how old you were when your father started showing you how to do something with your yeah I was still swimming I uh I believe I was in fifth grade fifth

grade yeah so you would have been 10 yes and at some point uh had he taught you what he wanted you to do to him with your penis yes and was there a period when you were having anal intercourse with your Father where you were the person penetrated yes and during this period of time what was the mood of these incidents with your father I didn't like what was going on I thought it was really dirty and uh but the mood was like and he would show me how to do something and and talk about

it matter factly and and and talk about how this was normal and this was supposed to be done and like anything Else was he still being nice yes now when when he this wooden Implement you said he showed you how to do use it on him but you were also supposed to use it on yourself yes he wanted me he gave me that and uh another thing to use on myself when when he wasn't he was trying to do uh it to me but it wasn't working it was when you say it wasn't working was

it hurting yeah yes So all right the objection is overruled as to that question but Council please refrain from asking reading questions okay um how did your father react at that stage uh to things hurting you um he was nice about it he didn't want to hurt me um so what what would he do if something was hurting it would he continue to do it would stop no he stop and did you ever use that wooden thing on yourself when he wasn't around no did You know why he wanted you did he say why he

wanted you to use that thing yes what did he tell you I don't remember exactly what he told me but I knew why it was so that I could practice on myself so that it wouldn't hurt anymore when he did now at some point did your father stop being nice yes approximately how old were you I was uh 11 years old just after I Finished swimming what do you mean by finished swimming uh swimming it ended I ended swimming and uh it was started after that point uh I don't understand what you mean by you

ended swimming does that mean you you swimming had stopped he had told me that I had to take uh a certain course in sports I was either tennis soccer or swimming and uh it was clear that he wanted me to go into tennis like Lyad you were supposed to choose a sport yes and you were supposed to choose a sport to compete in from then on yes and you it could have been swimming or tennis or soccer yes was it was it team sport okay or was it supposed to be an individual no he wanted

me to choose it was clear he wanted me to choose swimming I mean a tennis because Lyall had gone into it and he didn't want me to swim anymore um uh so I chose tennis that was the Impression you got when you chose tennis that he didn't want you to swim anymore I just I just didn't know I was it was real confusing he sat down with me and he and he and he came over to me me and he said what sport do you want to play you have to choose a sport because I

was 11 years old and he said I was becoming a man and it was time to choose a sport and so I said tennis later I found out that he didn't want me to choose tennis that he wanted me I I Blame myself I thought maybe he wanted me to do swimming but at the time I thought he wanted me to choose tennis because L had gone into it at the time that you chose the sport you thought your father wanted you to pick tennis is that right later on after some something happened did you

think that your father had actually wanted you to choose swimming is that what you're saying that's what I'm saying okay now what was it Mr Mendez that happened that made you Think that your father was upset with you for having given up swimming uh he wasn't nice anymore during the sex you have to put the mic he wasn't nice anymore during the sex now do you recall the first time that he wasn't nice during the sex yes yes and you were 11 oh was 11 the reason you're having trouble is it's not facing you face

it to I know I I need I need to use the restroom I need a break okay we'll take a recess and we'll Resume at 3:30 or 2:30 I'm sorry 2:30 ladies and gentlemen don't discuss the case with anyone or form any opinions about it we'll resume at 2:30 so you may resume your direct examination thank you your honor Mr Mendez this particular incident when you were 11 um do you remember it yes very well how do you think about this incident in relation to things that Happened both before and after I uh it's one

that just really stands out in my mind is it is it one of the worst things that happened to you yes and thinking about it do you remember what was happening in the house anything you heard or saw before this incident actually began yes what was it that was happening I heard uh some fighting with my parents downstairs who was fighting with your Parents my mom and my dad were fighting between themselves yes was this a physical altercation or a verbal fight uh I didn't know if it was physical I just heard the verbal I

just heard them yelling at each other okay and what happened after you heard them yelling at each other I heard my father coming up the stairs and what house are you in Pennington okay and um What happened when your father got up the stairs he came toward my room all I could think about was him coming toward my room and how I was hoping he wasn't going to do that do what come toward my room why cuz I didn't want him to come into my room when he was angry even if he was angry at

someone else yes did you think that it was going to be something sexual no I didn't think it was going to Be something sexual if he was angry at that time okay okay what did you think was going to happen if he was angry at that time I thought he was just going to take out the belt or hit me or throw me someplace I didn't know what was going to happen did you know what the topic of the argument was between your mother and father no did you have any concerns about what it might

have been yeah I was concerned that it might have been over me had there been arguments in the past Over you yes and had any of those arguments in the past over you resulted in your father physically hurting you yes he would get angry with Mom and they would yell back and forth and then he'd come to my room and just hit me or whatever so did you think it was possibly one of those episodes about to occur yes that's what I thought was about to Occur so if you could tell us what happened in

fact when he came into your room on this occasion uh he came into the room and he told me to kneel down on my bed okay and uh and I did and he he came over to my bed and threw me off the bed and uh told me to kneel on the floor and I you made a sweeping motion with your right hand when you said he yeah he just threw me um with his hand on my arm here he he took you Back on the arm and threw you off the bed yes and said

and said for for me to get on my knece on the floor and I was real confused because he just said to get on my knece on the bed and so I didn't know what to do what did you think was going to happen when he told you to get on your knees on the bed I thought it might have been some sort of sex why did you think that because when he told me to get on my knees in the bed usually um what would Happen would be for me to have some sort of

sex with him but it was strange because he didn't tell me to take off my clothes he didn't help me take off my clothes like he used to do he just told me to kneel on the bed and I didn't understand why I didn't know what was going on so did you then kneel on the floor as he ordered you to do yes and was he dressed yes okay what happened uh first of all did it hurt when he threw you off the bed I hit my head against The wall but I wasn't thinking about

that okay what happened now he was unbuckling his pants um and he he pulled out his penis and and uh in some way either by his hand on my head or by telling me he told me he wanted me to um massage is penish with my mouth and did you do that yes and you had done that before hadn't you yes had you ever done it being on the floor on your knees no Mr Mendez is This the beginning of what you came to call knees yes and did you call it that because of the

position you had to take yes and what happened ultimately in this uh episode I had to I had to give him a massage on my knees and until he started to uh have an orgasm and had he ever done that before while you were giving him a mouth massage no um he he had done it not just Not in my mouth I was ready to pull away like I'd always done and and then he just came on a towel or sheet whatever we had with him so I was about to pull away cuz I didn't

know what was going to happen because we weren't on a bed and I was just kneeling down and he said no swallow and he held my head to him and therefore did he ejaculate in your mouth Yes and did you swallow partly partly and did this upset you yes and How did you demonstrate being upset I was crying and how did he react to your crying he pushed me away afterwards and was there did he say or do anything to you afterwards yes what did he say or do he said why can't you just be

like your brother what did that mean I thought he just meant why do I have to cry all the time and was he um what was his tone of voice when he said this he was rough and He was angry did he at any time in at this point use the word embarrassment uh I don't remember him using the word embarrassment he just started talking about how it wasn't a Menendez and how I was never going to be good enough to be a Menendez and how he was ashamed to have me as a son and

and then he said I get used to it and left and what were you doing while he was saying these things to you I was just sitting on the Floor crying and after he left what happened I went to the door to see if he was still around the corner and I just went to the bathroom and threw up where was the bathroom in relation to your bedroom was in the middle of the hall in the middle between what and what between my bedroom and my parents' bedroom back up from the mic a little bit

and you threw up in the in the bathroom on that Occasion yes now were there other incidents like this one after this incident yes this is what started to happen all the time he no longer had me on the bed he no longer had me sit on the bed between his legs he no longer had me lie down on the bed was just at my knees and in addition to your just being on your knees was his attitude after this different than than it had been yes it changed dramatically and how was he from then

on he was no longer Nice he now yelled at me all the time he forced me to do things I had to do whatever he said and it didn't matter if I complained or if I said no or if I said please stop he didn't stop he just he completely changed and when other episodes like this would occur uh did you ever throw up after those yes I threw up almost every time when he when he would come in my Mouth now how far away from your parents' bedroom was this bathroom where you were throwing

up 8 ft 10 ft and your mother Mr Menendez when you were in the bathroom throwing up because of what your father had done did your mother ever come to you no were there times up until this point your life 11 years old when you had been ill and thrown up yes and had you thrown up in that very same bathroom yes and when you Were ill and threw up did your mother come in the bathroom yes did she make inquiry yes she asked me what was wrong at any time Mr Mendez from this point

on when you were in that bathroom throwing up because of sex with your father did your mother ever come in no now after this incident at 11: did your mother begin to do something peculiar with respect to your body no it wasn't right after that incident it was it was much later how Much later almost a year um it was when other stuff starting to happen what kind of other stuff was happening just generically uh actual sex intercourse yes and it was after that started to happen that your mother started to do something to you

yes and what was it that your mother started to do she would ask me to sit on the bed And um take down my pants so she could examine me examine you where and my genital she she called it checking me out she would say let me check you out and I would sit down on the bed and she would look at my penis would she um did she tell you why she was checking you out she just said to see if there was anything wrong she didn't give me any details about why and were

there times when there was something unusual yes okay and what were these Unusual things I would just have a um small blisters uh on my penis and would your mother do anything about that yes what did she do she used to squeeze them and pop them and did she ever ask you where they were coming from no and did she ever tell you what they were [Music] no and at that point as strike that you've testified that Around 10 your father had taught you to have anal sex with him correct he taught me how to

do it yes yes and at this point when your mother is checking you out is that still happening very infrequently does your mother continue to check you out for several years yeah all the way up until we mve to uh California and is there some other types of activities with your father that Begin During the period that she's checking you out yes and are those the things you came to call rough sex actually I was referring to nice sex okay but was there also rough sex happening during that time yes and did rough sex involve

your father hurting you with things yes and what kind of things was he hurting you With uh needles pins TS what was he doing with the needles excuse me rope what was he doing with the needles and the pins and the TXS generally he was sticking them into my thighs and my butt was he doing anything to your penis yes what was he doing sometimes he'd be um giving me Royal sex and sometimes he would have just um tied up my penis back up tied it up with the Rope yes and would that hurt yes

very much so And when that those activities were going on was your mother still checking you out yes now your father during the years that you lived in Pennington was an executive with the RCA Corporation was he not yes and what was he uh traveling a lot yes he was traveling uh almost every week at least he was in New York away from the house almost every week well was he away for the whole week or was he away at least part of each week Part of each week was he a very busy person yes

and did he talk about how important and busy he was at work yes he talk about his work not during these sessions but uh uh at home at other times at any time Mr Mendez when you were alone with your father in your room when any of these sexual things would happen would your mother ever come and say Jose you have a phone call or anything like that no did your father Spend a lot of time on the phone with business other than when he was in your room yes and would he receive a lot

of phone calls at the house yes Mr Menendez during these years when you were living in Pennington and these things were happening did you think your mother knew what was going on no call for speculations over no I didn't were there times when following one of these episodes with your father you'd be crying yes did your mother ever Come upon you when you were crying uh sometimes after these I'd have to go downstairs to dinner um or afterwards and she would come when she'd see me crying and uh did she ever ask you Eric what

are you crying about no would she ask you that sometimes if you were crying and it had nothing to do with sex with your father sometimes uh but often when I was crying it was apparent why I was crying Well what do you mean well I would be crying at the swimming pool or I'd be crying coming from school and then she'd ask me what was wrong but if it was from sports or just from coming out of my room she would I don't understand what you mean from Sports I don't perhaps I didn't understand

your if it was from swimming or if it was uh from tennis almost never when I was playing Soccer I don't think I cried but um if it was from Sports and she was there and I came yes okay what I'm saying is where there times that you would be crying when she didn't know what caused it and she would ask you yes did she ever ask you why you were crying when it followed one of these episodes with your father no and what would she say if anything to you when you were crying following

these Episodes with your father she would say do what I told you to do what did you tell what had she told you to do she she taught me how to hide my tears and to uh not cry and if I was crying she taught me how to get rid of the tears make it seem like I hadn't been crying and what was the method she had uh she had water that she would tell me to uh put in my eyes otherwise she had this little special thing that she would keep in my bathroom To

put in my eyes what was this little special thing I'm not sure what it was it was in a little uh plastic container and she put it in your eyes she taught me how to too so you'd put it in your eyes yes these episodes with your father what time of day did they usually occur at night before or after dinner either before or after usually before when he when he right got home from work but sometimes it would happen after if it Were before dinner would you still be expected to come down to dinner

yes unless I was unable to and were there times when you were unable to eat dinner there were times when I was unable to come down to dinner why was that because I was crying too much or I was too much of a mess and I was shaking and I couldn't uh I couldn't come down to dinner I used to get these these pounding headaches um sort of like Sears Through my brain and my dad would say you're not going down to dinner were you usually however expected to go down to dinner after one of

these episodes yes and would that be why you would dry your tears or put water in your eyes yes um a lot of times sometimes not sometimes I would go down to dinner uh with my eyes red and what would happen how did your father react to that he didn't like it and uh sometimes he Would cope with it and he just wouldn't talk to me I was usually ignored at dinner anyway but this times he really wouldn't talk to me [Music] now if we could go back after this incident that you've described when you

were 11 um did your ideas about these times alone with your father change of course I I don't understand Exactly what you're saying okay what did you think of what was going on at that point when your father got violent when you were 11 I thought he was just angry at me I learned that he actually just wasn't angry at me but at the time I thought he was just angry at me and what did you think he was angry about what had you done I wasn't sure at first later on I figured that maybe

he really wanted me to choose swimming and since that was his sport when he was growing Up and he was just doing this to get back at me so that's what you seized upon you thought oh it must be because I gave up swimming yes his anger however in these episodes you said went on for long time yes did you think you were doing anything else wrong that would make him angry with you this way I thought I must have been doing something wrong and I didn't know what so I just tried to do everything

right I tried to be perfect In school I tried to be perfect in tennis but I didn't know uh what exactly I was doing wrong he didn't tell me and did the fact that these kinds of episodes were now happening um Chang the way you felt about your life of course what what do you how do you mean change did you get depressed yes I got very depressed and uh I just had trouble concentrating in school I just had trouble dealing with It and really I had trouble dealing with the fact that my father no

longer loved me um more than anything else but it was because it was when it got painful it was harder but when it was just giving him massages was just because he didn't love me I don't understand what do you mean when you were just giving him massages before anything really painful started to happen it was I felt very depressed and very lonely because I lost my dad's love and I didn't understand Why I did that um but after it got painful um then I started just wanting it to end and not not really caring

so much about Dad's love as much now when it got painful is that what we were talking about is that the rough sex stuff yes and how old were you when that started I was 13 and how long did that go on until we move to Princeton until we move to Princeton okay and you moved to Princeton when you were 15 and a half yes now before the rough sex started the thing that you talked about with the tax and such was there yet another oh strike that let me back up you said at some

point your father had anal sex with you is that right yes and how old do you believe you were when that happened I was in sixth Grade I guess I I'm pretty sure I was 12 and was that within a year of the episode you previously described at 11 yes now you've mentioned earlier that um he had made some efforts to accomplish anal intercourse with you that had been unsuccessful because it hurt you yes and therefore he had stopped yes and that was before the incident when you were 11 when he was violent is that

right Yes now the when you were 12 do you recall the day that he succeeded yes and was that a gentle process or not no not at all what was was it Mr Menendez it was very very painful and do you know if on that occasion anyone else was in the home besides yourself and your father no I was alone and in the house with my dad now was there a part of your bed that was Removable yes and what was that part was a wooden FL that there were many of them under my bed

but um he had taken one off and left it off he being whom my father and when had he done that removed one and left it all early on I don't know what that means early on when I was I guess I was before anything bad started to happen must been were 11 yes but you were living in Pennington yes and what Would he do with the slat that he took off from the bed he would wedge it underneath the door under the door knob high in the carpet so that no one could open the

door from the outside yes and I think you've already said your mother never came to the door anyway no so do did you have in mind at the time who that slot was supposed to keep out well I thought it was to keep out anyone from coming in the room it just happened That no one came to the room ever but I didn't I didn't know who were the candidates who were the other people who lived in this house my mother and my brother and at some time Diane when Diane lived with you yes now

on this particular occasion nobody else is home no no no one else is home okay and do you recall basically what happened yes basically what happened my dad came in and told me to take off my clothes And uh to kneel on the bed and he closed the blinds and he put the slide underneath the door like he always did and uh he told me to bend over the footboard this bed had a footboard is and a headboard yes and did you know what it meant to be told to bend over the footboard yes he

had had you do that before yes that's when he tried to have sex with me wasn't able to and did your Father put anything on you or ask you to put anything on you this time he just did it himself usually he he told me to what was it that was put on you he had a Vaseline jar and in the past when he had tried to do this he had had you put the Vaseline on yes he puts him on um himself and he' put had me put him on myself on this occasion he

put it on you yes and what happened and uh he he he lined himself up and he started going into me like he Had always done but this time he was going in too far and I said Dad please please stop and I said dad you're hurting me and he would just kept on going further one point I just started screaming and I started saying stop it hurts it hurts and uh he just went all the way in and did that hurt yes and how did you react to that pain I just sort of died

off I didn't uh I stopped screaming and I just sort of left myself you left yourself I just pretended that It wasn't happening I pretended that the pain wasn't happening and I just I just went away in my mind uh it was too painful when it was over did you cry I was crying during it okay and after it was over were you still crying yes and did your father say anything to you at that time yeah he had a towel on the bed and he put the towel on the bed and he had me

sit on the towel so that I Wouldn't get anything on the bed and he said uh very calmly and looked at me and uh told me to look him in the eyes and he said next time you ever scream or yell I'm going to beat you so bad you'll never be able to scream or yell again do you what did it occur to you did something occur to you about this episode concerning why he had uh gone ahead when you were in pain yes what was that it was because uh when I had screamed or

yelled or cried out before He had told me that if I ever did that he was going to go all the way inside of me that was on a previous occasion when he was trying to do this yes so he kept his word yes did you believe Mr Mendez as you were growing up that your father was a person who would make good on his threats oh yes now did did your father in this particular conversation after this Episode um strike that your father said to you that that if you scream again he'll make sure

he hits you hard enough that you won't be able to cry or scream again yes and did he explain to you whose fault that would be yes he asked me whose fault it would be he asked me if I understood and I said yes and he said so if I ever do that do you understand whose fault it'll be or or do you know why it will happen and I Said yes okay and what did you whose fault would it be he made it very clear that it would be my fault and I understood that

would what did you do uh if anything after this episode well did your father leave after he had told you it would be your fault yes he left and he closed the door and when he told you this about whose fault it would be what kind of Mood was he in he was in a very Stern very serious uh very strong um mood and what did you do after he had left I sort of waited outside uh the door in my bedroom uh listening to see where he had gone and then just went to my

bathroom and got in the tub took a bath I took a hot bath and just promised myself to do whatever he wanted never to scream never to yell never to cry just do what he wanted when it happened now over the preceding a couple Of years talking about now you're you're 12 when this happened is that right yes over the previous couple of years um had in the incidence with your father had the talking stopped oh yes no he told me that he didn't want me to say a word when he spoke and he talked

about silence when when he talked he would talk but he would never want me to say a word unless he spoke to me and when he talked he would give me lectures about Silence About the Romans about the Greeks he would he would lecture me about different things during the sex or during the visits that included sex either while I was getting dressed or while I was undressing um sometimes in the middle but usually not and were you allowed to talk no not unless I I uh was asked a question and did Silence become the

pattern yes he told me all about silence What about silence Mr Mendez what did he tell you he told me that silence was the greatest thing that man had uh he said that it was the greatest power that anyone could achieve and that with silence you could control anyone and was there a time then when the sexual episodes with your father were totally and completely silent yes when he would say nothing whatsoever yes then it would be silent and you would say nothing whatsoever yes Now was there was there a time when SE the sexual

incidents that you have called nice sex began yes how old were you when that happened I I believe it was just after sixth grade I know it was before 7th grade um but I believe it was just before uh the ending of sixth grade or in the spring or right before the summer I know Diane was there so it had to be right around that period now why Mr Mendez did you come to label uh these incidents nice sex because of how bad the rough sex was okay so by comparison these were nice yes and

were these incidents different than knes yes completely different okay what was different about this and you don't have to describe everything that was done here okay just the general feeling of it what was different about this the Knes it wasn't violence he wouldn't come in and have nice sex when he was in a bad mood he would always do it when he wanted to relax when he had a a tough day at work he said and he just wanted to be comfortable with me he would come in and have this with me and did this

involve a variety of sexual activities yes that he required you to do to him could you characterize in two sentences perhaps what was involved in these episodes of nice Sex you don't have to give DET you don't want to give the details of this do you it just had me giving him massages with my mouth him giving me massages with his mouth and my testicles and my butt and uh so on okay and he wouldn't be angry or violent during these no now rough sex strike that would these episodes called nice sex um take longer

or less Time than say knes took a lot longer how did you feel about these episodes I I I I liked NES better because it was short and he would just come in and sometimes he'd have me make me swallow or sometimes he wouldn't and and I really didn't like that at all but it was short and I wouldn't have to put up with a lot of long drawn out things okay and nice sex was longer and long drawn out things yes and rough sex did it seem to be related in some way to one

of the other Types it seemed to be related to the nice sex but it was different what was different about rough sex it was very strange um it was very dark um he turned off the lights he put candles around the bed and on my nightstand and on my dressers and he would light them and he would put the candles and cups um you know the cups that he would bring from the kitchen or different plates that were in my bedroom and it would be very dark and it would Be very quiet and he would

do these things to me and was that when he was doing things with uh tax and such have you told us already about some of the things he would do yes Mr Mendez before this set of episodes called rough sex began did your father announce to you something about pain training yes he did and could you tell us about that he told me that I was the biggest [ __ ] and The biggest coward he had ever seen in his entire life and that he was ashamed to have me as a son because I couldn't

take the pain and I couldn't be brave um from what he had seen what was he referring to you know he was referring to a shot I got in the doctor's office um when uh when I was in this doctor's office and he was there the doctor had pulled out this needle and I was real calm and I was really relaxed until he stuck it in me and I was screaming and Crying and and really crying out um to the point where I had to go out the back door uh of the office and uh

why' you have to go out the back door of the office because I was embarrassed but he was so embarrassed that he could not leave and go into a group of people who were in The Doctor's um office waiting room who's he who was embarrassed my father okay so you were crying and he didn't want to walk you through the waiting room cuz you were crying no he Didn't want to walk through the waiting room because I had been screaming in the doctor's office okay were you still screaming no he just didn't want anybody to

know who was the screaming kid yes okay and after this he made this announcement to you about your being CE and coward yes and what did he tell you he was going to do about that if anything he told me that he was going to train me how not to not to feel pain not to have to uh Feel the hurt of the pain and that he was going to eliminate that from my uh senses my feelings and how uh did he then demonstrate to you how he was going to do that he did that

would you back up from the mic a little bit thank you and would you tell us how did he do that he would stick things in me as he was giving me oral sex or times he would just sit on the bed with his legs up um spread and with his back to the to the Back of the bed and he would have me give him me oral sex and he would stick the needles or the tax into my thighs uh as he was doing this did he also use a knife at any time during

and these were the incidents that you've come to call rough sex yes and did he also use a knife at any time yes he would uh he had this wooden kitchen knife that he would use to just he wouldn't be doing anything with sex at that point though he would just have Me sit on the back of the bed he would put a towel under my leg legs and he would just cut my my thighs with the knife and have you do you have a a scar that you is still visible on your thigh from

what he when he did that yes which thigh is it my left thigh and how long is this it's not really my thigh it's my right on the side of my knee on the side of your knee yeah right at the bottom of my thigh and how long is this score It's about that long and do you recall that that's something that was done during one of these episodes yes was there something Mr Menendez that you called the mirror yes and what was the mirror the mirror um would happen a lot after sex um sometimes

it would just happen after I played tennis or just when he got home and wanted to know how I practiced it was It was a it was a circular mirror with it almost like a Sailing mirror it had it looked like a sailor's port and it had sticks coming out theide of it like 12 sticks around the mirror and did it look like a um chip yes that's exactly what it looked like okay it was a round mirror yes that looked like a ship's wheel yes okay and where was it what room was it in

it was in my room on my um not my nightstand the the dresser um right across from my bed that's what it's called it was in your bedroom was it Mounted on the wall or was it sitting on the dresser it was just sitting on the dresser leaning up against the wall and what did the mirror have to do with your father well strike this he would be drilling you asking you questions yes what the mirror have to do with his asking you questions well he would take my chair I had a wooden chair and

um uh he would take it and he would put it in front of the mirror or he would have me stand up in the mirror if it was After sex I'd be doing it naked if it was after tennis I'd have my tennis clothes on and he'd walk around behind me and ask me questions what kinds of questions he would say how did you feel today when you were on the tennis court did you feel you did well and what would you say I would give my answer well hypothetically give an answer so we can

hear how this would go I would say yeah I think I played well and he would say wrong and now what was supposed to Happen if anything when you when he said wrong I'd have to hit myself in the head you'd have to hit yourself yes without hitting yourself would you just show us what you were supposed to do but don't hit yourself I'd have to go like this okay and what would happen if you didn't go like this well it wasn't like this I'd have to hit myself I understand that you'd have to hit

yourself and what if you didn't hit yourself hard enough or if you didn't do it if you missed what Would happen he'd hit me and where would he hit you in the back of the head and how long would these question sessions in front of the mirror go on half hour and how many wrongs sure typically would you hear I would hear it depended on how stubborn it there were times when I just couldn't take it anymore it would just well up inside of me and I just I couldn't stand it and I knew the

answer He would want after a while I I knew that if I was on the tennis court he'd say how how did you play in tennis today and I'd say badly and he'd say right and he'd say how did you hit your forehand I'd say terribly and he'd say right and he and I and and he'd say did you hit it down the line like I told you to no and he'd say right but uh sometimes he'd tricked me once he knew that I was catching on to him and sometimes I would just give the

the the wrong answer on Purpose did you give a truthful answer in other words if you thought you played well would you sometimes say I played well sometimes I would say I played well but I knew I'd get punished for that you knew he'd say wrong yes but you did it anyway yes cuz you had played well I had played well and that wasn't really the reason I just needed to defy him in any way I could okay and what would be the result of that kind of defiance I'd hit myself And how often would

the mirror occur at least every week sometimes more it really depended it usually happen on a Saturday and Sunday after I played tennis or one time during the week after any sort of sex massage it depended Mr rendez could you please sit back for a second take a breath and see if you can stay back there okay okay yes now you heard your brother Lyall testify that there were many many Occasions in his life when your father would take him to some part of the house and they would sit down for hours at a time

and your father would lecture or drill your brother you heard that testimony yes did your father ever take you to some part of the house other than your bedroom and give you similar lectures and drills to what he did to l no it would only be the mirror it would only be it would only be the mirror so the mirror was what he did to talk to You yes and what about the dinner table you heard your brother describe what he was put through at the dinner table did you recall that yes and did that

sound right to you is that what you recall happening at the dinner table to your brother yeah it was much worse than he described but but it was it was bad much worse for him yes and was it ever that bad for you at the dinner table as it was for him no did your father do the same kind of Questioning of you in front of the mirror that he did of your brother at dinner yes do you remember your father ever making Lyle smack himself uh for giving wrong answers at dinner no your honor

could we have a break at this point all right we'll take a recess we'll resume at 20 minutes to the hour don't discuss with the direct examination thank you your Honor Mr Mendez can you look to your right to the pictures of yourself that are on that board uh-huh can you see them yes how old were you in those pictures I think I was 10 or 11 that's Hershey you appear to be playing tennis and the one on the bot yeah that's Hershey it's got to be 12 or uh it's got to be 11 or

12 because Hershey didn't start till I was 11 I think that was the first time I ever Played in Hershey so at the time those photographs of you were taken you would have already been raped by your father had you not yes and following that did you make an effort to run away yes and did that occur uh what time of year in the summer and was this a time when someone was visiting with your family for the summer a relative well she was visiting more than just for the summer okay who Was visiting Diane

and how did you try to run away I just went across the lake uh in a canoe and uh decided to to leave did you pack up some things I had a lunchbox and I had a little um uh school book sack that I put some clothes in and I filled the lunch box with food and did uh did you get away I got away uh for the all afternoon uh until night time when it started to Get real dark and there's was a forest across the uh not across the street across the lake and

uh it was a real heavy dense forest and you could get lost and I did and did somebody find you in the forest yes I heard my father calling after me and did he find you yeah I called after him why' you do that if you were trying to run away at that point I was much more scared of being in the forest at night than running away and What happened um did your father eventually come upon you yes and uh what was his reaction he was Furious and did he do anything to you yes

he picked me up I was sitting on the back of a tree well my back was to the tree and I was sitting on the ground of it and he picked me up and threw me against the tree and said if you ever run away I'll kill you do you understand me you'll never get away and he just went on and on and on about how this was stupid and How this was ridiculous and how I was embarrassing him and and embarrassing him to whom Diane Vander Ren was in the house at the time and

he was he was more embarrassed that I had done this and Diane would now realize that I tried to get away from the house than anything else um speculation overall overall yeah answer stand okay now um at this point in your life after this effort to run away did you resolve somehow to change something About the way you were dealing with your father yeah and what was your res resolution I I decided to uh to try to do something I didn't know what to do I thought about I thought about killing myself really and uh

and once I failed at that I I tried to uh to just try to resist him in some way what do you mean you failed at killing yourself had you tried to kill yourself yes what had you done I had just filled up the bathtub with Water and broken over one of my dad's razors and just sat there looking at the razor and the water but I wasn't able to do it did your dad have straight razors yes no what do you mean by straight razors he had the ones that you so when you say

you broke open a razor you mean a razor blade yeah oh okay he had one of those like six packs where you would throw out the blade and put in another blade double-edged blade yes did you cut Yourself no what had you resolved to do by way of fighting back I didn't really know what to do um what did you do I hid from him I uh I put cinnamon in uh his drinks and his coffee and his tea why did you put cinnamon in his drinks well at the time uh I was in seventh

grade and I had a group of kids uh were friends of mine that were really Involved they weren't involved but they talked a lot about sex and it made me very uncomfortable um so I would sort of shy away and just listen and what did you hear that led to putting cinnamon in your father's drinks if anything I heard that it uh made it taste better it made what tastes better ah seeon and so you did it so it would taste better yes now was it at some point after you were 11 years old that

you developed a rather peculiar eating Habit yes did you think it was peculiar no okay that's my word yes what did you do I uh I used a lot of lemon in my food and what do you mean by used a lot of lemon what are we talking about here well in essence I would put the lemon in the bowl first and then put whatever I was going to put in the bowl um like fish or rice or whatever sometimes I'd just pour the lemon over the food if it was already on the plate but

otherwise I would I would just drown my food in Lemon all of your food soup the meat chicken over the fish the rice uh pretty much uh everything so would you consume a large quantity of lemon every week every day and when you're eating all this lemon did you notice it had any effect on your sense of taste yes what would happen uh I wouldn't taste as much you wouldn't taste as much of your food I did it for a specific purpose but Uh it didn't it didn't seem to work all that well what was

the purpose for which you were doing it so that I wouldn't have to taste um uh my dad's uh okay uh let me ask you something where did the lemon come from from did you go and buy it for yourself the IDE where the idea come from no no where did the actual lemon that you're putting on everything come from oh from my mother and would your mother uh did she ever run out aemon yes and would she be concerned About that yes so did she make it a point of trying to always keep you

supplied with lemon she kept stocks of lemon mother ever asked you while you were drowning all of your food in lemon no it was a big joke in the family um in the Rel relatives and so on but no one ever asked me why she never asked you why no over Mr Mendez was there something about your father's demeanor or look during What you've called rough sex that was distinctive yes and could you tell us what that was was the look in his eyes it was the way he would he would look at me um

through me past me uh he would I remember one at one time he he stuck me with a tack and it really went far into me and I sort of went and he just twisted his head around and looked right through me and it's it Was scary was that different than the way he looked at you when he was angry or when other kinds of sexual activity were going on yes it was a it was a it was like a glazed look it was uh it was as if it was as if he wasn't there

it was as if he was or didn't think I was there it was really it was really scary because I didn't know what he would do because it's it's hard to describe and on all the other occasions he was just Angry or he was nice he was there he was all there and he was very bright and and I would sort of I would sort of know what what he was uh thinking but in this time yeah on these occasions could you know what he was thinking I had no idea what he was thinking and

why was that particularly scary because of what he was doing did you think on these occasions that he saw you differently in other words I didn't even Know if he saw me uh when he was in the middle of it it just was was really weird okay now you've testified that this rough sex uh ended when the family moved to the house in Princeton yes do you know why it ended no and a few months after the family moved uh to Princeton did the family move again to California yes and was there something unusual with

Respect to what your father and his molesting you that occurred after the family moved to California well it ended it it ended or it stopped for a while I thought it ended period it turned out it didn't but that's what I thought it happened I thought it was because we moved to California I was really excited about moving to California getting out of the the the Princeton house which was very it was a Very depressing sad house and and my mom was in that same state as well during that time um during well I don't

understand you your mom was in what state she was very depressed very sad during what time in Princeton could you back up from the mic just just ignore it and stay back we'll hear you um so you thought californ the move to California was going to be what I thought it was going to be like a new Beginning I thought it was going to be it was going to change everything and you thought it was going to change the sex yes and the first for how long in California when you first got here was there

this stopping this no sex with your dad do you understand the question for about 3 and a half months when once we were in California um about 3 and 1/2 months sure it was 3 and 1/2 and not six m Mr mandez well it It was six in total from when we were in Princeton 2 but just in California it was 3 and 1/2 months so there was about 2 and A2 months in Princeton there was no sex at all in the Princeton house there was sex I I know there was because I remember kneeling

on the wooden floor and uh the wooden floor was in my bedroom but I don't remember uh very well about the Princeton House okay so was there a period when there was no sex in the Princeton house before you moved To California yes let me ask you this starting at the age of six and up until the point when the family moved to California generally speaking on average how many sexual contacts a month was there between you and your father I didn't hear the first part of the question all right between the time you were

six when it began and the time that you were 15 and a half moved to California on average generally over that whole period how many sexual Contacts a month were there between yourself and your father two to four times a month I mean that's really General so would there be some months when there'd be nothing yes and would there be some months when there'd be a lot more no well so it would be some months there would be four uh times sometimes he'd come in every week he'd come in every week sometimes for a period

of 5 weeks and then not come in my room for two months okay so we're Trying to average it out stretch it across that whole period yeah two to four times a month yes so you get to California and for the first 3 and a half months nothing yes nothing so what do you think I think that it was going to end I thought it was because we moved to California and because I guess I was getting older and and that it was going to end it how did that make you feel it felt great

I really I really had a good 3 and 1/2 months when I was there how was your mother doing in those 3 and 1/2 months the first 3 and 1/2 months of in California she wasn't doing so well now were you hearing things between your parents during these first months in California uh that was unlike anything you had heard them argue about in the past well I heard them talk about divorce and did you hear them talk about Affair oh yes I heard them talk about that in the car basically through my mom I heard

them okay the question is you're in California are you hearing these kinds of talks the first few months in California yes had you heard these kinds of talks about divorce about Affairs in New Jersey no and is your mother upset oh yes she was very upset was there a period of time when you first moved to California where your mother did a lot of crying she did almost sustain the answer can you Describe something that your mother was doing when we first came to California that was different than what she did in New Jersey well

in uh in the Princeton house she began to do a lot of crying and I didn't know what it was from until I moved to California and she did nothing but cry and it was really sad um and I would try to go talk to her and she would say leave me alone I don't want to talk to you and she would just stay in her bedroom and cry where well At first we were in the Oakwood Apartments what state Mr Man California and you said she'd do nothing but cry are you talking about after

you moved to California yes and no I mean she did a lot of crying in the Princeton house um I just didn't know what it was for but once we got to California it was all crying okay and how did that make you feel made me feel very sad for her but you're a life was somewhat Better at that point my life was great because the sex had ended and uh I was I wasn't happy with my father but um I was happy really really happy that the sex had ended you weren't happy with your

father because of what because of the way he was dealing with my mother now at some point did this uh stoppage or did this period where there was no sex with your father end yes and do you remember when that was was right before my birth day in uh 1980 I guess it was 1986 and your birthday is when November 27th and Mr Mendez when did the family move to California in August of 1986 yes and without getting into the details what form of sexual contact did you have with your father right before your birthday

in 1986 knes and was knes the most frequent form of sexual contact over the years from 11 on yes uh much more so in California but uh but yes in uh in New Jersey I'd have To say it was the most frequent that I remember and did n Remain the most frequent form of contact for the years that you lived in California yes and had what you call sex been the least frequent form of contact when you were living in New Jersey yes and did Sex continue to be the least frequent form when you lived

in California oh yes I want to ask you to go to an incident however of Sex that involved your father using a knife we've you've referred to this before remember that yes okay first can you tell us how old you were when that occurred I was 7 and where were you living in the Calabasas house and your brother was was he even in California at that time if you remember I don't really remember if he was I think he may have been did you have your own sweet of Rooms in the calabases house I had

two rooms yes you did yes and did this incident with your father start out with him having a knife or did the knife evolve it didn't start out with him having a knife okay how did it start out it started out with him coming in my bedroom and telling me to get on my knees I was on the bed at the time and that was fairly common wasn't it yes and uh did you do it no what did you do I I got up and as I was getting up I Said no and did you

give him a reason for saying no no I just said no did you say you had a headache I don't remember saying I had a headache do you remember telling me in the past that you thought you told him you had a headache then over what I remember now is all I remember okay so you just said no do you know why you said No yes why did you say no cuz i' had been building myself up for for a long time before then uh I'd really been building myself up to to to to resist

him in some way or or fight back I really hated myself at the time and I I disliked who I was and so I just had to I wanted to do more than say no but all I could do was say no okay so you said no because you had been planning on saying no is that the answer yes all right and how did he React to your saying no oh he me and threw me on the bed okay and after he did that what did he do he left the room and what did you

think when he left the room I didn't know did you think your resistance had worked at that point no cuz he stormed out of that room so what happened next he came back with the knife now this knife Mr Mendez is a small medium Large I think it's like that if not bigger I mean I remember it being huge okay and where was it kept at that house it was in my parents bedroom and when he came back with the knife what did he do with it if anything he put it on my neck he

put his hand on my head and put the knife on my neck and did he hurt you with it no did he threaten you with it yes what did he say he said I should kill you and next time I Will and did you believe him yes and following that did he then um demand an act of sex from you you want me we approach did he then demand something something from you yes what sex and did you comply yes did you complain no did you resist no did you say no no did you just

do it yes and had he on this occasion uh requested that you go into a particular position that was unusual yes and what was unusual about It was that I uh I put my knees on the uh Ed of the bed well hadn't he asked you to do that before yes but it was unusual it never it only happened three times in my life was there a mirror in this room Mr Menendez yes and were you positioned in some way with respect to the mirror yes and is that what was unusual about this as well

that only happened twice in my life well was this one of the times that happened yes and did he make you look Yes and how did you feel about that experience afterwards I uh I really uh hated myself and did you feel that you would be resisting him again in the future no was there a thought that would go through your mind when your father was having sex with you concerning dying yes what was that thought and I'm focusing now on when you were in California when you're teenager I just wanted more than anything else

uh that when I died that no one would find out that this was happening to me when these sexual things were happening with your father did you think that you might die yes did you understand how or why no I I just felt like I was going to die I it just was so horrible that I just I wanted to die and it felt like I was going to die I just Didn't want to die with anyone knowing you didn't want to die in the middle of it no is that what you meant question understand

the question yes uh I I definitely ly did not want to die in the middle of it and if you had died in the middle of it what might happen people would know people would know what that I was having sex with my father did any of that thought enter your mind on Sunday night August 20th 1989 yes and how did it enter your mind that night I thought he was going to kill me that night and I thought he was going to have sex with me first and did that flash to any pre previous

thoughts you would had any what previous thoughts thoughts you had had earlier in your life the whole question okay when you were thinking that your father might have sex with you on the night of August 20th and kill You okay did that remind you of these earlier thoughts you had about not wanting to die in the middle of a sex act with your father no it didn't have to remind me it was always in my head it was always there well was it there then m yes it was there let's go back if we can

to when you're living in New Jersey do you remember let me strike that did you have An opportunity in the last few months to look over your school records from the Princeton Day School yes and did you read the comments that all your teachers had written about you over those years yes and was there something that you remember experiencing as a school child at school related to what was happening at home certainly what were you experence experiencing at school and I'm and when I say related to happening at home I Mean to the sexual activity

with your father do you understand that yes and what would happen at school I would lose my concentration um and I would wander off and were you aware of doing it at the time uh sometimes I was aware when I snapped out of it and what would be the thought or thoughts or pictures or images that would cause you to lose your concentration anything could cause you to lose my concentration the way Somebody looked at me reminded me of my father or what somebody was wearing if my father had been wearing that or a box

the way it was positioned anything didn't matter but was it related to the sex with your father Yes and when you reviewed the school records did you see things in those records that reminded you of these concentration problems well I talked about it all over the school records back up a little I saw who talked about It my te teachers what did they say they said that I had a a serious problem in concentrating during tests during class school and and at any time that I wouldn't be able to concentrate very well that I would

get very nervous and anxious well went you're a pretty nervous anxious person since the time you were a little boy yes I was um and did this sex with your father You think make you calmer and more relaxed definitely not just it just it didn't make me more nervous uh for school it just made me real paranoid paranoid of what of giving myself away Mr Menendez when we broke yesterday we were talking about your mother's interactions with you over homework and schoolwork and learning do you remember that yes and you mentioned at some point uh

when we you were talking about that Something about a closet yes would did you tell us what significance a closet had with respect to your mother and to school workor um that's where I did a lot of my school work uh when I didn't do it well what's where you did it in her closet where was the closet um in her room was a long um very narrow long closet she kept a lot of her clothes and uh is that because you liked to do school work in her closet you chose that As a place

to do it no she put me there when she felt that I wasn't concentrating hard enough or uh was having trouble concentrating or just wasn't doing it well enough to the how she liked or when she left the house and she felt I wasn't sick she wanted to make sure I did my work you say when she left the house and she felt you weren't sick what type of days or what time of day would that relate to uh that related to during the day late morning afternoon When she had left the house this can

you specify what time frame you're talking about yes what age or ages are we talking about when your mother would have you do work in the closet when I was 12 13 14 now the days when she'd leave the house and have you be in the closet with these weekends or school days the school days when she would leave the house it's when I was homesick but she didn't feel I was that sick and what was the purpose of you being if you Know of you having to be in the closet on these school days

when she was out of the house she wanted to make sure I didn't watch TV or do anything that I wasn't supposed to do and and made sure that I did my work so you were supposed to do homework in the closet homework or different uh different tests that she would give me or assignments that she would give me and was there a chair and a table or a desk in the closet no sometimes she' give me a clipboard a Clipboard so that I could write on and for how long a period of time um

would you have to remain in the closet after she had uh put you there until she let me out and how long would that sometimes be sometimes it would be an hour sometimes it would be all day when she left 7 hours sometimes I fell asleep in there overnight and when um apart from the days when she wasn't there and she put you in the closet Where would she be on other occasions when she'd put you in the closet to do your schoolwork where would your mother be usually across the way on her bed in

the same room yeah the closet was at the at the very back past the bathroom past my Dad's closet um down this teeny little hallway in her room and her bedroom would be on the other side of the room so she'd be in her bedroom I mean I couldn't tell where she was always but when I called out she was Usually on her bed and did this closet have a solid door or door you could look through I could peek through the bottom under under the door but it was a solid door and what would

happen Mr Mendez if while you were in the closet and your mother was home you had to go to the bathroom um I wasn't supposed to go to the bathroom unless I called out n her if uh if she wasn't home well when I'm talking about when she is home let's okay let's say she's there okay she's in Her bedroom yes and you have to go to the bathroom yes what would you do I'd have to call out and tell her that I needed to go to the bathroom and would she then come and let

you out of the closet let you go to the bathroom uh depended depended on what on whether she felt like letting me go to the bathroom at that time she'd asked me what number I had to go and if I had to go number two usually she'd let me out and if you had and the number one was urinating yes And if you had to do that would she let you out sometimes sometimes she would say I'll let you out in a few minutes or later whatever did she ever provide you with a receptacle of

some kind that you were supposed to use in the closet yes that's after I had complained that I couldn't you have to back off the mic try to sit back just sit back in the chair okay try to stay there okay go on the receptacle in the closet it was a it was a plastic bin with a yellow cover Was a see-through um type of thing and what was it for it was for when I used to go to the bathroom that's after you had complained well IID complained when she left the house she'd put

me in the closet and I didn't know I couldn't leave the closet to go to the bathroom and uh she got very angry at me one time when I left the closet and I said I I Ed the excuse that I needed to go to the bathroom that time even though I didn't uh and so she gave me a a bin to to go In if she wasn't at home how did she know that you left the closet to go to the bathroom whether you really went to the bathroom or it was just an excuse

how'd she know know you left the closet she used to put this uh little piece of paper go ahead she used to put this little the microphone is too low that's why I can't um excuse me an could Deputy wolf could we find a place where it won't no it's just a volume too close to it you don't have to Lean that close to it just speak up in a loud voice she used to put this little piece of paper uh the uh corner of the uh closet door so the closet door open from the

outside the paper would fall down if it opened from the outside if it opened the paper would fall down the outside okay and so there was an occasion when you had left the closet and she found out yeah I didn't know this until after I found out on the second time what it was uh I had left The closet and I watched TV and I got something to eat and I used the restroom and and I came back and she accused me leaving the closet and I said no I didn't and she grabbed me and

she started shaking me and she said don't lie to me don't lie to me and uh and I didn't know how she knew but I I admitted that I left the closet and uh the second time is when I saw the piece of paper the second time you left the Closet when she wasn't home is that what you mean yes I didn't understand how she knew that I had left the closet the first time um now did you use this receptacle that she provided yes did you ever use anything else I didn't enjoy using the

uh I didn't really want to use this because cuz I'd have to give it to her um and so I kept uh a one of those plastic bags in The hid it in the closet so when I had to go in there and I had to go to the bathroom I could use my own and I could pretend that I never went okay I'd like to um go back for a moment to um the sexual activity between yourself and your father for a few points all right um when you were about 13 was there an

episode of uh what you call the Mirror that had to do with the sexual activity between yourself and your father well it would happen a lot of times right after sex so what do you mean what I mean is did he do a drill in front of the mirror that had specifically to do with the secrecy sure yes okay and was I right was that when you were 13 yes okay would you tell us about that particular drill I was sitting in front of the um Miror he used to do this every once in a

while I'd say at least once or it happened more than just when I was 13 um and uh and I would I would sit in the uh in the chair in front of the mirror and he would ask me if I've told anyone and I said no and he would say what's going to happen to you if you tell anyone and I remember the first time I said that you will hurt me and uh he said wrong and so I hit myself and he said what's going to happen if you tell Someone and uh I

didn't answer and he said again he said what is going to happen if you tell someone and I said you'll kill me and he said right and that happened more than once yes you got it right the second time though excuse me I would learn how to get it right the answers so the second time what was your answer just that he'll kill me and then he said right yeah okay um also when you were about 13 was there a nickname that you gave yourself that was related to what you've described here as rough sex

yes what was that nickname um the hurtman and did you share that nickname with anyone yes and who did you tell that that was your nickname I told some of my friends I told Diane um I told Lyall I was was the hurt man did you have a cousin named Andy yes did you ever mention that nickname to Andy yes I I More considered Andy one of my best friends uh then my cousin okay did you explain to um Lyle and all these other people why you were calling yourself hurt man or did you just

tell them the nickname I just told them it was because I got hurt a lot and I could you didn't tell them how you were being hurt or who was hurting you suain answer did you tell them how you were being hurt or who who was hurting you no Excuse me R up now do you recall Mr Mendez that you testified that on um the Tuesday night before your parents were killed you strike that on Tuesday afternoon before your parents were killed you started a conversation with your brother in the guest house where you brought

to his attention a talk he had had with your father when you were young Yes when you were young how did you find out or how did you know that Lyall had had a talk with your father because my father came in the room and beat me up and how old do you recall being when that happened I recall being um 11 and what if anything did your father say in uh accompanying this beating he came in the room and he said he just very angrily told me that he could not believe I told Lyle

And what was I thinking and didn't he understand that I was going to he was going to kill me if I told Lyall and all this uh stuff and then he was he had me up against the wall and was it after that that these drills in front of the mirror about what he would do to you if you told began yeah it was longer after that though they was just I mean he had told me many times not specifically in reference to LY that what he would do to me if I told um but

uh it was unexpected Cuz I hadn't told L and uh I didn't I didn't know he was going to come in the room I wasn't prepared and so it was a shock I I denied it but uh he didn't believe me you denied what I denied telling L to whom to my dad and who didn't believe you my dad now after that did you have any conversation with Lyle um about or did Lyall ask you any questions about anything going on between yourself and your father Yes L would ask me a Question every once in

a while for a short period afterwards uh he would say is anything strange happening in your room with Dad or something like that and I would say no I don't know what you're talking about and why did you say no I don't know what you're talking about because I didn't want to give any indic ation that anything was because I didn't want what happened with Dad to happen again you didn't want Lyall to tell him Exactly suain answer what did you mean when you said you didn't want to have happen with Dad what happened before

I I didn't know what ly had told Dad but I didn't want L to say anything to Dad about anything I just wanted L to leave it alone if he knew I didn't know how he knew but I just wanted him to leave it alone now you had mentioned in your testimony yesterday something about Um Vaseline was Vaseline something that figured into the sexual activity between yourself and your father yes and what specific um type of the sexual activity did Vaseline figure into the actual sex was daelene ever a part of the rough sex only

um in respect to actual sex but hardly ever what about with respect to certain implements was it ever used for that yes It was used rarely but um not very often and with respect to actual sex Mr Mendez I think you've already testified that was still a component when you lived in California is that right yes and when was the last episode of actual sex between yourself and your father in California in May 1989 and was there some rule or directive of your father's uh having to Do with Vaseline yes and what was that rule

or directive that I was supposed to leave it in my room um and I wasn't supposed to remove it from there and how would it get into your room well he brought it in very early in Pennington um when I was 12 years old and uh and left it there and I was told not to touch it again and he did the same in uh California he did the same in Princeton and when you were living in Beverly Hills um was there a particular place in the room where he would keep the Vaseline yes and

where was that on my I on my bed there were a lot of shelves on one of the shelves in my bed you've looked at the photograph that's up on the board on the top on the right yes is there a jar of Vaseline on a shelf on your bed in that photograph yes now you've talked about uh sexual Activity occurring between yourself and your your father in your bedrooms at various houses remember that testimony yes were there other places in the house where a sexual activity between yourself and your father would occur only one

other place and where was that in the shower your brother testified there were times when um you and your brother and your father would shower together and your father would do something with the Water yes was that an experience that you recall yes uh I believe your brother testified to a a shower that had doors where the regulator was had a wrench on it yeah I don't remember that so well what house was that that was in the north Mill House I think do you remember things about uh where your father did things with the

water from the Pennington house yes those I remember and what do you remember just generally About what he would do at the Pennington house uh at the Pennington house it was a lighter um thing he would when I was washing my hair and the shampoo was getting on my face he would suddenly turn the water either all the way cold or all the way hot um so I learned how to shampoo my hair back cuz that's what he always did he uh he never got any shampoo on his forehead just in case I did that

to him cuz it was sort of a thing that uh he used to do and uh and Uh and then he would have L and I see who was the strongest person by uh he wouldn't turn the water hot he would turn it all the way cold and see who could last for 30 seconds in the water who could last for 45 seconds and so but let's back up to though when you had the shampoo in your eyes before you learned how to shampoo your hair to not get the soap in your eyes okay you

said he would turn the water all the way hot or all the way cold yes did you ever get burned Yes now when this when you and your brother and your father showered together was there any sex on those occasions no were there other occasions when just you and your father showered together yes and was there sex on those occasions not always but sometimes and what would have preceded those showers what came before the showers if you recall what would you been doing um sometimes he would uh shave me I was really asking what activities

Would this be on the weekends the showers together yes well it would be after tennis after Sports of course okay so it's after Sports of course yes okay well we took every time we finish playing on the tennis court um we always him and I and sometimes Lyle um depends how old he was at the time would go and take a shower together now you mean every time meaning on the weekends yes he really wasn't around too Often um during the day uh in the week during the week yes let's talk about during the week

during the school year okay days when you'd go to school yes okay uh would there usually be tennis practice before you went to school yes and when there was tennis practice before you went to school did you change and shower first or did you just go to school after practice usually we just went right to school so would the time when you would Shower at home after 10 practice be on the weekends or at the end of the day almost always on the weekends we'd be playing tennis for all day like 6 hours uh every

day in the weekend and and afterwards we would go and take a shower now you mentioned something about he shaved you what age were you talking about uh when I was 12 when you were 12 12 and did this happen only when you were 12 or did it go on for no it began when I was 12 and how long did it go on Just for uh it didn't happen in Princeton so it ended uh before he moved to Princeton you moved to Princeton when you were 15 and a half yes and what part of

your body did he shave well what hair did he shave my pubic hair now apart from the showers and your bedrooms were there sexual incidents with your father in other places besides your home yes and what kinds of places uh in Hotel rooms when we were play tennis or I remember twice when we were on vacation and do you recall um what ages you were on vacation when it happened uh one of them I I do one of them we were in uh St Lucia and uh and the other one we were in I don't

remember exactly where we were uh it was skiing vacation we were either in Vermont or we were in Colorado not really sure and you're not sure how old you were for the episode on the skiing Vacation yeah I don't remember St Lucia is where it's in the Caribbean did you take all of your vacations with your parents yes now you said there were also hotel rooms when you were on the road playing tennis would this be when your parents were traveling with you in tournaments yes and Mr Mendez did such activity happen when you were

traveling in the tournaments over the summer of 1989 Yes and would there be a difference in the kind of sexual activity that would occur when you were traveling depending on how you did in the tournament yes it would all depend on how I did in the tournament whether I won or I lost and if you won what was the usual sexual activity well in California it wasn't so usual anymore um for us to have um Nix but it would only happen um after I won okay so nicexx was reserved for when you won yes that's

when your father was in What kind of mood he was in a elated mood and uh what would happened when you lost um one of two things and what are the two things um he would either have actual sex or usually it was niece and was it knes that happened during the summer of 1989 yes now you testify that the last sexual activity with your father was in August of 1989 where did it occur in my bedroom in uh in Beverly Hills yes when did it occur in August I know I know when it Occurred

before the uh before the talk right after we got back from cazo okay and you got back from cazoo somewhere around the 9th or 10th yes so was it within a day or two yes and what type was it was knes now Mr Mendez when you moved to California how old were you uh I was 16 no I was 15 when I moved I turned 16 right after you turned 16 in November after you moved yes and up until that Time had you ever had a girlfriend no when you were in the eth and nth

grade excuse me did you have friends at school who would talk about about girls and sex yes and did these friends have social interactions with girls yes did you no why because I was uh I was afraid of that what were you afraid of I was afraid of they would talk about sex a Lot and I was just afraid of the conversation I didn't even want to get into the conversation I certainly didn't want to be around when talking about that or even really around girls and that type of thing why CU it just it

made me real uh self-conscious made me real um afraid that they might be able to tell something that I knew a little bit too much or that I knew something that I shouldn't have or that they would be able to tell something I didn't know Tell what that I would be able to I would something would slip out about what about about what was happening with my dad okay um in fact was there a time when you made uh choices about who your friends would be based on whether certain boys talked about sex and other

boys didn't yeah there were two of my uh uh uh friends in school two of my good friends um in school my only real friends but uh in school they talk too much about sex And uh I told them that I I couldn't uh deal with the the Friendship anymore I couldn't handle it were these friends trying to get you to do anything yes what were they trying to get you to do they were trying to get me to kiss a girl or have a girlfriend approach a girl okay now when you moved to California

did um did your mother Uh start to talk to you about something that she had not previously talked to you about yes and do you recall where you were living when your mother first brought this particular topic up to you uh in the Oakwood Apartments so that's right after you got to California yes how long did you live in the Oakwood Apartments very short time I don't even remember how long a month or two you don't remember not really sure it was Very short time cuz by November we were living in the Calabasas house by

your birthday yeah so it couldn't have been more than two months okay now while you were living in the Oakwood Apartments did you hear arguments between your parents yes and what did you learn from those arguments about what was going on between your parents that they were talking about divorce and did you learn what the reason was why they were talking about divorce because my uh uh Dad had an affair and what was how what was your mother's basic mood if you will uh during the time that you lived in the Oakwood Apartments she was

very depressed um crying a lot but very angry when talking about with my dad she was angry with your dad yeah she was really angry she was really angry now did they um before this time had they ever talked about their marriage or their relationship in front of you no Now were they doing this openly in front of you or were you just hearing things it was a very small uh small apartment and uh there was only three rooms and so you could hear through the walls but this would there would be in another room

yes they'd be in the middle room there was a bedroom on each side of the middle room and they'd be in the middle room it's the middle room a living room it's like a living room eating room kind of a Thing and was it while you were still there that your mother brought up this topic to you yes and what topic topic did she bring up uh that she wanted me to get a girlfriend and uh what did she say she said I had to have a girlfriend within 6 months or she didn't really say

or she was just made it pretty clear that something bad would happen if I didn't have a girlfriend within 6 months and did you Have any idea why she would say this to you I assumed it was because of uh her uh image she wanted her son when I was younger they would ask people would ask me in front of her uh oh do you have a girlfriend or um she would they would ask her in front of me does he like girls you know yet I was young and she said no no he doesn't

have time for that um he doesn't uh have that but when we moved to California it was a it was a really big thing for me to have a Girlfriend and uh later on I found out why but at that point I didn't know okay and did you um within 6 months find a girlfriend I I think I didn't make the six-month deadline but it was just after and uh what were the initials of this girlfriend so we don't have to use her name uh KS and was this a girl that you went with twice

over two different time periods Yes now you also said that um the first 3 and 1/2 months that you were in California there was no sexual activity whatsoever by your father right did you know why that was true no I had no idea before you left Princeton the last couple of months you were living in the Princeton house was your father out of town a great deal yes did you learn that he was in California most of that time yes and did you understand did he tell you the purpose of his Travels well I knew

that we were planning on moving to California and did any time did you learn that he was job hunting or job interview yes so how would you compare therefore Mr Mendez your father's um being uh it's a clumsy question let me withdraw that you've testified that over the course of your childhood in New Jersey your father would be in the city in New York City during the week or travel a lot is that right yes was he away from home more when you lived in Princeton or less than when you lived in Pennington he was

away from home more was he away also for longer periods of time yes he traveled a lot more I mean he traveled a lot when we lived in Pennington um but most of the time he was just in New York and he had stayed over there a few nights but when we were in Princeton he he left the state a Lot so do you have many memories of him at home in the Princeton house at all have almost none now when the uh sex started up again in after the 3 and a half or so

months in California uh this was before you had met your mother's deadline for getting a girlfriend is that right I'm sorry was this before you met your mother's deadline before you got your girlfriend what was the sex in California starting Up again yeah long before how did you feel about the relationship with that girlfriend that first girlfriend oh it was like a new life for me it was uh it was something that I had never experienced before and uh suddenly I was actually happy uh sometimes I was I felt really I looked forward to seeing

her and I felt really warm when I was with her and it it uh it it made me really Insecure at times but it also made me feel more comfortable and did it have any effect on your feelings about uh what was going on between yourself and your father yeah it had a big effect and and what was that it made me really really desp spies really hate what was happening with that it made me really really dread it and uh really really hate it was there something that you were worried about more so than

ever once you had a Girlfriend concerning the sex objection sustained what were your concerns now that you had a girlfriend um with respect well strike that were there any new concerns that you had concerning the sex with your father now that you were seeing a girl no concerns about him just concerns about her finding out about me do you recall on Mr Mendez whether there were ever sexual incidents with your father on days when you had dates With your girlfriend yes uh yes was there anything uh notable about that yes sometimes I just refuse to

go out on the date I remember one time when it was about a month after we started dating um my dad had come into my room and I was supposed to meet her and I called her and I said I was crying and I said I want to end the relationship and she wouldn't let me end it cuz I wouldn't tell her why but uh I just had A lot of I had a lot of confusion a lot of problems with it now you've testified that in the very early years of the sexual relationship with

your father you actually didn't have negative feelings about it because you felt it was a closeness with him no I didn't have um very many negative feelings about him coming into my room and being with me I didn't when I was young I I didn't you know I I I didn't like some of the Things that was happening but I thought it was just something that I get used to I thought it me um young and so were you actively seeking or thinking of ways to end it when you were young say under 11 or

not no not at all now when it got violent at 11: okay um I think you've described a period when after that you were very depressed you tried to run away and then there was a period that you called trying to fight back like the cinnamon And hiding and those things yes now at that time did you want it to end yes did you ever tell your mother in an effort to get it to end definitely not why didn't you tell your mother because I for a few reasons um one one of the big reasons

was if she believed me I knew she couldn't do anything about it she certainly couldn't get Dad to stop by fighting Dad I just felt bad for her and I didn't she had a lot of problems she was sad or angry a Lot and I didn't want to have to give her more problems what about uh any concern about your father if you had told her well that was the obvious concern I didn't want to get beaten up I didn't want to get killed I didn't want anything to happen to me now did you believe

that if you told your mother and she accepted it that she would Mind what your father was doing yes of course and did you think that if she minded she'd try to help you yeah I thought she would try to help me and then her and dad would would no longer get along or dad would do something to her real bad and would destroy the family I didn't want all these problems and that was apart from whatever you thought directly might happen from your father yes now did you by the time you were well I

don't you tell me at what Age did did you come to believe that what was happening between you and your father was really abnormal really abnormal uh really wrong or abnormal leing he's already uh when I was 13 or 14 when I was younger when I was like 12 and so on I just really hated it but and I thought it was normal um it was only when I I talked to my cousin I I uh I just began to really really really Had problems with it that I thought maybe this was not something normal

you said you talked to your cousin Mr mandez was there one person that you were closest to when you were young yes and was that a person your age or someone younger than yourself that was someone younger than myself and it and who was that person that was my cousin Andy Andy what Andy cono and whose child is he my aunt's yes who your aunt who my Aunt Martha okay Now was there a time in your life that when you were closer in some ways to Andy than even to your own brother uh yeah um

especially when ly um got a girlfriend and how old were you when Lyall got a girlfriend I was uh 13 I believe and at that age when you were 13 is that when ly started seeing that young woman that's been talked about here Stacy Stacy and before That in a year or two before that had you been spending social time with Lyle uh a lot of social time we would he was was my only real real friend I mean Andy and Lyall and then I had uh one guy uh one one one Brendan who I

would see every once in a while what were you doing with Lyle uh I would go to the mall with him he would go to the arcade a lot and um I would I would uh play soccer with him just friendly and rough house with him And climb trees and do things and then he got a girlfriend yes and how much of that activity between yourself and Lyall continued after Stacy uh Came Upon the scene not much I felt really uh really abandoned and uh abandoned by whom by Lyall I knew he didn't he didn't

do it on purpose but I just felt like I didn't have I felt like I lost my best friend and uh cuz he would spend all the time with Stacy and at this time did you therefore become Closer um with Andy yes Mr Mendez when you were about 13 did you actually tell Andy cono what was happening between yourself and your father um I told him I'm not asking what you said cuz that would be hear safe but did you tell him what was happening yeah I I believe I told him before 13 before you

were 13 yeah I think I told him when I was uh before l started daing dating Stacy when I was about 12 well if he remembers that he was 10 Could your memory be defective possibly my memory is defected possi you're three years older than him aren't you uh yeah I think so and was he um how did you strike that how did you tell him how did well strike that you've testified you were in part afraid to tell people is that right yes I was very afraid why would you tell Andy if you were

afraid to tell well because Andy and I Were having a really uh close relationship and I didn't really tell him at first I did it real slow getting into it I eventually I did but I got real slowly first cuz I was afraid you're afraid of what I was afraid of telling him and him telling somebody else so I wanted to see how he would sort of react that sort of thing and did he keep the secret as far as I know You testified before that you ultimately um found out or learned why it was

your mother was pressuring you to have a girlfriend yes uh what was it you well first of all when did you make whatever uh Discovery it was uh after um Kirsten broke up with me Kiren was the girlfriend yes and when was it that Kiren broke up with you uh in just just after summer in September of 19 uh 8 87 was that the first time you and Kiren broke up or the second that was the first time and did you uh renew your relationship with Kristen at some point after that yes and when did

that happen almost exactly a year later in uh August or August of uh 1988 and how long did your relationship with her last in August of8 from August of 88 uh about 6 months now when was it um you say it was September 87 when you had when you made This discovery of my mother it wasn't like a discovery it was just knowledge or belief of of why she was pressuring me okay well how did you gain the knowledge or belief but she would she was real nasty after uh uh relationship with Kris and I

ended and uh she would say what are you gay or what are you not man enough for her uh are you're just not you're just not a man enough person to be with her is is This what is this what your problem is she would really uh uh get down on me so she gave you the impression that she questioned whether or not you were gay yes Mr Mendez did you ever question in your mind whether or not you were gay yes and why was that if you know it's because I uh I didn't understand

what was happening with my father what do you mean you didn't understand It in uh California it it uh I didn't understand why it didn't hurt uh so much and uh anymore and I didn't understand how I just felt like I was having more friends because I had a car and I was able to play tennis with them and I was a little bit more independent and I felt like I was supposed to be stronger and I would still um be doing this with Dad and I wouldn't I wouldn't scream at him or fight back

with him cuz I was afraid but I I didn't I still thought I should have and I would still be able to have an orgasm uh okay so those things those factors made you wonder if in fact maybe you were gay maybe that's why this is happening maybe that's why I don't resist maybe that's why it doesn't hurt is that what you mean yes I didn't understand and did did these concerns about whether Or not you were gay did this bother you yeah it was on my mind a lot I I uh it bothered me

did you think it was wrong for somebody to be gay or was it just that you didn't know what you were no didn't think I was wrong to think I was uh you didn't understand my question do you think it's it was wrong for people to be gay no so what was it it was just that I was confused and uh was difficult for me and my mom made it seem like it was worse than death uh to be Gay and uh and I I didn't think I was I just I didn't know I I

really didn't understand I did you like girls yes were you attracted to girls yes and uh eventually did you have uh intimate relationships with girls yes you said your mom made it sound like the worst thing in the world did your father make a gay jokes yes did your father call you a particular name associated uh negative Name for yeah he called me a [ __ ] did he call you that a lot yeah he called me a [ __ ] or a [ __ ] um used both of them uh he he hated gay

people um and he absolutely re refused to uh accept that what was happening between us he just said that it wasn't uh any of that he hated that without naming him is was there a relative on your mother's side of the family that was perceived by the family as being gay he was gay okay well we didn't know that we just Felt that he was okay and how did your father talk about or treat that particular individual he ridiculed him made fun of him uh talked a lot behind his back would say things like you

don't want to be I don't want to say his name you don't want to be like this person uh uh he would one time I remember Lyall bought the same color and same same basically the same type of shoe as this person was wearing and he made fun of Lyle for the longest time for it for Getting the same kind of shoes as the relative yeah now what did you think when your father who is having sex with you is taunting you with being gay I was real confused um I didn't think that what Dad

and I I was doing was a gay thing I thought it was just what Dad and I was doing and uh but it made me real confused because it didn't hurt like I thought it should anymore and so I didn't understand when your Father called you [ __ ] did you ever answer him back in your head yes what did you say I said with them what the hell are you now when you were 13 to 15 and the rough sex was happening did you uh based on things your father was doing did you form

some opinion about uh his experience in these matters I didn't I didn't hear the first part of the question are you hearing okay right now yeah you perhaps we could Take a break briefly okay we vote for we'll take a recess and we'll resume at 10 minutes after the hour Mr M does I want to take you back to uh Muny New York when you lived there do you remember your earliest recollection of being frightened by one of your parents which parent your father yes and what were the circumstances of this earliest memory of being

frightened by Your father I was swimming do you remember where you were swimming I was swimming at the I believe it was called Ramapo I'm not quite sure of the name it was a a lap pool and what happened well when I was in Muny I couldn't quite swim um the 25 yard uh pull without breathing and he wanted me to do it straight without breathing cuz that that way you swim faster and uh I Couldn't do it so he would train me uh to do it without breathing and how would you do that uh

by grabbing my hair and dunking me under the water and then uh Lifting me up and dunking me under the water again so what frighten you just the fact that he dunked me under the water for 20 30 seconds and I didn't know what was happening I I was trying to grab his hand and try to get his hand off my head because I was desperate for for air but he felt that I had had to Just be on the brink of not of needing desperately needing air and then he would lift me up so

I would train my lungs to be able to expand and expand did you enjoy this experience oh it was it was it was really scary cuz I thought I thought he was going to kill me not intentionally I just thought that I was going to drown underneath the water because I was down under there so long and I didn't think he understood that I couldn't breathe sometimes and he would Lift me up in the air and I would be able to gas for water then he' put me back gas for water gas for air and

then he would put me down underneath the water again and uh I just didn't have enough time to to get air would your mother ever be around when your father was doing this kind of training yeah would she ever intervene no my mom didn't intervene uh when my dad was doing things Now have you seen the photographs up on the wall um there's a photograph of you there at I think someone testified you're about 18 months old hanging from a bar in a gym it's on the top on the left yes you remember that photograph

being taken no do you remember something similar happening later involving hanging from a bar with your father Yes it wasn't really hanging from a bar He would put up a bar in the doorway or he would put up a bar uh uh at well not put up a bar with the bar on the soccer field different wherever there was a bar he would want me to do pull-ups um to get my uh arms stronger and so on and uh and just as I was getting tired I would want to jump off cuz I was too

tired and when he he'd uh grab my feet and what would that do well if I fell he would grab my feet And then he would lift them and so if I fell I'd fall in my face and uh so I would I would be desperately holding on to the bar and why did he do that what was the purpose I I think partly he enjoyed it um he he wanted to get me to to to cry out and uh beg for him to put me down and partly to keep me stronger so that I

don't know how but every time just as I was about to fall he dropped me sometimes I fell on both my feet and my Hands but he was able to drop he was able to time it really well it amazed me cuz I didn't think he'd be able to I was really afraid that he'd hold my feet up too long and he thought I was just crying well for something and wasn't really serious and I was afraid that he wasn't going to drop me in time but he always did when you were young and you

were afraid of things okay were your parents ever approving of your Fear oh no no they hated they hated people that were afraid okay you're at the right distance from the mic now but now you have to speak up a little bit okay they hated people who were afraid yes yes and did they seem afraid my mom was sometimes afraid of my dad uh especially early on in life uh but otherwise they were not they certainly weren't afraid of other people or other things they never appeared Afraid to you objection suain did they ever did

either of them ever appear afraid of other people or situations to you definitely not especially um not my mother excuse me especially not my mother she uh she used to Pride on I guess partly for Dad about being how strong she uh could be in Brave I mean in situations well did you ever hear or see your father being anything but fearless or Brave defin well no that was not something my dad Would do want to uh turn your attention now to your mother St with when you were living in Dy um did you feel

when you were a little vas of time yes what time frame are you referring to well do you know what years you lived in myy Mr mandez yes okay what years between 3 and S okay so that would have well other Witnesses have testified you moved to man before you were 2 years old do you remember being 2 years old no my earliest mem is three okay do you remember talking to detective zoler on September 17th 1989 and telling him about what you were like when you were a little child um yes remember that conversation

I remember hearing it in court and reading it I don't specifically remember The conversation okay uh and when you were thinking of yourself as a little child talking to detective zoler were you thinking of yourself as someone living in Muny or living in Pennington or what living in Muny and how little a child were you thinking earliest memories um yes when I was 3 4 uh 5 six and what was your memory of yourself at that very early age kind of but child do you remember being uh I just remembered being a Uh a nature

oriented uh person I really like the environment I really like trees and animals and bushes and leaves and so on when you were real little did you think of yourself as a happy child or an unhappy child uh I was I was happy when I was uh when I was outside wa when you were little yes showing you this Photograph Mark 271 do you recognize the person in it yes is that you at 3 well it's me um you look at the back Yes it's me at 3 your mother's hand writing is on the back

yes and is that the way you thought of yourself as a small child uh yeah sometimes well that's a happy child isn't it yes I want to call your attention for a moment Mr Mendez to these photographs that are up on the board let check their exhibit number 20 3 206 207 you see these three photographs can you see them yes yes and do you notice in two of these three photographs there's something on your face yes it's just a Bruiser cut do you remember that particular Bruiser cut no I want to call your attention

to this last photograph before we were in court had you seen this Photograph before yes had you seen this Photograph Even printed In Articles and shown in newspapers yeah that's where I saw it and is there something about this Photograph that you noticed when you saw it printed yes what was it that you noticed right away uh where my dad's hand was where is your dad's hand in this Photograph on my brother's uh uh genital area and and uh you didn't have any difficulty seeing that or noticing that when you saw that Photograph did you

no did you read the articles that were written the articles that ran that photograph I think I read that article I'm not I'm not sure one article that ran that photograph yeah I I believe it was a a magazine article and I I read that one did the writer ever comment on where your father's hand was no this is objection sustain the answer St now Mr uh corana asked you something about wanting to Kill your parents on August 20th 1989 Mr Manza did you want to kill your parents no what did you want I just

wanted the sex to end is that why you shot them to end the sex no at that point I just wanted to live and on Tuesday when you talked to your brother did you want to set in motion a chain of events that would result in your shooting your parents no definitely not what did you want by talking to your Brother on Tuesday I wanted the sex between my father and I D now in the fall of 1988 you've testified that there was an act of sodomy between yourself and your father in which he used

a knife you remember testifying about that yes it's just a followup to this line questioning which was prompted you're on you wish to be heard side yes if you wish did I have an answer to the last one y let's see if we have the question First ask it again yeah I'll ask it again Mr Mendez you recall testifying that in the fall of 1988 your father sodomized you in an incident involving a knife yes and uh how did you feel after that I felt awful I I uh I couldn't wait to get to college

and did you tell your brother at that time about the molestation with your father no and did you have any thoughts at that time about having to Kill your father or your mother or anything like that no and in May of 1989 you've testified was the last time your father sodomized you was that a pleasant experience no and did you tell your brother about it at that time no and did you have any thoughts at that time that you wanted to kill your parents or you might be forced to kill your parents or anything like

that no how did you cope with these things Mr Mendez I thought about the future and what was there in The future that you believe helped you to cope with this that I would uh be able to get away from my father that the sex would in okay and what was going to be the vehicle for your getaway college now what was it that you felt after the conversation that you had with your father that Sunday where he told you he expected you to be sleeping at home several nights a week I felt like uh

my life had uh had Had crumbled I it felt like something that uh I read in a book you felt like something you read in a book yes what book do you remember well tell us what what is it it made tell us what it is that it made you feel like I felt like I was uh I felt like I no longer wanted to live what what what is it you read in the book that was about a uh uh it was about a a man in a concentration camp who uh in Nazi Germany

who thought he was going to get released on March 30th uh of a of a date I don't remember and uh on March 30th he he wasn't released and he knew that he wasn't going to be and uh March 31st he died and you felt like it was March 31st objection being sucess and how did you feel that Sunday after your father told you that you'd still have to come home I just related to that a lot I felt Like um The Hope in the future was gone I have nothing further on