Married, Dating, or Single: The Best Relationship Advice You Will Ever Receive

I'm not an empathic therapist. You want empathy? Oh, I'm sorry. You cracked. Patriarchy cracked. It doesn't mean there was something wrong with you. It means there was something wrong with what you were both trying to live up to. Terry Reel is one of the most sought-after [music] couples therapists in the world. His private clients pay $7,000 [music] for a single session. Is going to explain exactly why none of Your relationships in the past [music] have worked. Listen, we've never wanted more from relationships than we do right now. We want to be lifelong lovers, but we're

trying to do that in the context of a culture that is not a relationship cherishing culture. There is a relationship technology. There's a set of skills that work better. It works better to ask your partner for [music] what you want than to criticize them for what they're doing wrong. All Relationships are an endless dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair. >> Most couples are in harmony and [music] disharmony. Harmony and disharmony, but no repair. >> No repair because that's where the skills come in. Getting the love you want literally means being a pioneer. We are interconnected.

We are interdependent. Healthy self-esteem comes from the Inside out. You have worth. You have dignity because you're here on this planet. You're a human being. No better or worse than anybody else. Remember that and have that give you courage. >> Please help me welcome Terry Reel to the Mel Robbins podcast. >> Oh my gosh, it's a thrill to be here and bless you and thank you for the good work you're doing for the world. >> Terry, right back at you. bless you and thank you for the good work you're doing In the world and for

the good work you're about to help us do in our conversation today. And here's where I want to start. How could my life be different if I take everything that you are about to teach me today [snorts] after 40 years of wisdom and work and the things that you have learned and the truths that you know? How could my life be different if I take it all to heart and I apply it to relationships and to my day-to-day life? >> I'm going to tell you and listeners, viewers, uh the same thing I say to every

single couple. I am inviting you on a rarified path. It's demanding. It's sophisticated. It's skilled. And it leaves the norms of this culture in the dust. Listen, we've never wanted more from relationships than we do right now. >> Gone. Our grandparents, even our parents, companion side by side, pay the bills, raise the kids, no passion, no Communication. Fine, stable, good enough. That's gone. We want to walk hand in hand on the beach. We want hard. We want great sex in 70s and 80s. We want to be lifelong lovers. But we're trying to do that in

the context of a culture that is not a relationship cherishing culture. We live in a patriarchal and I'll go into that individualistic culture that does not cherish relationships. I would like basic relationship skills taught in Elementary school, junior high, high. We need to know how to pull off this new ambition of being lifelong lovers. Getting the love you want literally means being a pioneer. If you're a heterero man, it means moving into vulnerability, which means deconstructing masculinity itself. Masculinity means being invulnerable. You open your heart. You are redoing what it means to be a man.

As we were speaking, standing up for yourself, not With shrillness, but with love and power is brand new work for women in this culture. As a people, we all need in our lives to be pioneers. We don't live relationally in this culture. We are individualistic and we are patriarchal. Meaning the basic model is dominance. >> We control. We need to trade the dominance model in for the reality of our biospheres. We are interconnected. We are interdependent. If we stay on the dominance model, we will fry this planet. What you're doing in your living room is

exactly the same work we need to do across this globe in order to render it a place our grandchildren will want to live in. It's a great ambition. I like to say we have like uh filet menu ambition and hamburger skills. We need to catch up to ourselves. >> I love that you said skills. So there Are skills that we can build to have better relationships. And you did though say they were demanding. >> They are demanding. One of the great lies uh is that a long-term relationship is supposed to be spontaneous. >> Uh there's

lip service about having to work on it. But let me ask you a question. >> Yeah. >> How many times have you heard that Relationships take work? >> My whole life. >> Yeah. Anybody ever tell you what it was? >> [laughter] >> you know, >> actually no, >> of course not. And that's where I come in. There is a relationship technology. There's a set of skills that work better. For example, and we'll go over it, but just one example, it works better to ask your partner for What you want than to criticize them for what

they're doing wrong. Well, who does Listen, in our culture, the way we try and get more of what we want in our relationships is we share our feelings about how miserable we are that you just blew it. That's how we try and get that's the worst behavioral. I you don't treat a dog like how about just punishing a dog every time they get it wrong. No, I talk about three steps of getting what you want. One, this is the Important one. Dare to rock the boat. We're going to talk about that. Dare to tell the

truth, but you have to do it skillfully. >> Two, once your partner is listening, help them out. Teach them what you want. I would rather you do it this way than that way, honey. Honey, with love. And then three, when they start to give it to you, reward them. Don't criticize them. Well, you did a half-ass job. Hey, you did a halfass job. Isn't that great? Let's get the other cheek on board while we're at it. [laughter] >> It seems so simple. Tell the truth. Teach your partner what you want and reward them when they

do it. Even if it's a half-ass job. >> Yeah, that's the best way of getting them to do more. Criticizing them for what they're doing wrong is about the worst way of trying to get them motivated to give you more. But we don't know these basics in this culture. You Know, the I'm a family therapist for 40 years. The father of family therapy was Gregory Bas, the husband of Margaret uh Maid. Uh and Bas's whole work, the birth of family therapy is what he called correcting humankind's uh philosophical mistake, which is that we stand apart

from nature and we can control it. >> Both wrong. And by the way, I propose of uh the let them theory. Control can be one up. That tends to be more Traditionally male. Sit down, shut up, and do what I tell you. Control can also be upregulating from the one down. That's codependent. That's enabling. That's trying getting your partner to dot dot dot. That's traditionally more feminine under patriarchy. Intimacy. Here's one of the first things I want to say. To really move into the intimacy we want means nothing less than moving beyond traditional gender roles

for all of us. Women have to move out of resentful accommodation uh control enabling. That's what your book is all about. Uh and the sort of um my generation's early feminists shifted from the one down traditionally feminine role to the one up traditionally masculine. I call that individual empowerment. >> Okay. >> I was weak, now I'm strong. Go screw yourself. >> Yes. >> Uh no, I was weak, now I'm strong. Let's work together. We're a team. I love you. I call that relational empowerment. And in our culture, man, that is new news. And therapy, 12step

sponsors, women's groups, men's groups, all individual empowerment. I wouldn't put up with that if I was you. Well, that's easy to say. How about roll up your sleeves, you love each other. How are you going to make this work together? >> So, there were so many things you just said that I want to dig into. I love this idea of relationship technology and skills that we can build. I also love that you're starting from a place of this larger container that we're all in, which is culture. I also appreciate the fact that the traditional gender

roles that a quote man is supposed to act this way, a woman's supposed to act that way, that those are leading to a lot of dis dissatisfaction. >> Yes. >> In relationships on both sides. And there was something that you said that I want to make sure we unpack >> and that was the term resentful accommodation. What does that mean? Ask any woman on the street. >> Well, I know what it means, [laughter] but I but I >> Well, what did it mean in your life? So resentful accommodation was the biggest example that I can

think Of is that when we were in a massive financial crisis, Chris cratered >> and his confidence in himself, his ability to believe in himself, >> the sense that he had failed as a husband, husband as a father to provide that he had lost people money >> as he was collapsing. I became more and more resentful >> because I felt like it was my job to then step up and save us and do what I thought should have been his job. Again, traditional gender roles that he's supposed to be the one that's the bread winner.

I'm supposed to make some money that's our fund money. And when that didn't work, >> you both cratered. >> We both cratered. >> The whole marriage cratered. >> Yes. And so it it the resentfulness is Kind of comes from that thing of I thought it was going to be this way and I think you owe me something >> and now I'm pissed. So now I'm going to go do this thing, you know, and go like make the money and get three jobs and do what I need to do. And now I'm mad because when I

come home like the laundry is still there and all this stuff is still there. Like you could I'm probably is a lot of the tone that you hear when you're sitting with couples. >> Yeah. >> And the interesting thing is is that if I look at your three things, tell the truth about what you need, listen and teach somebody what you want and then reward them. And it seems so simple, but when you're caught in that cycle of the emotion of all of it and you start to pull away from each other and that distance

comes in, >> I think this is the heart of what you Help people do. >> Well, you know, I mean, I don't mean to be heartless, but I would look at the two of you and I go, "What a great opportunity." [laughter] Which is not I'm not an empathic therapist. You want empathy? Oh, I'm sorry. No, look at how you both grew. And you cracked. Patriarchy cracked. One of the first things I have to teach people, and I'd love people to listen to this, >> is healthy self-esteem, which is rare in our culture. >> Healthy

self-esteem comes from the inside out. >> You have worth. You have dignity because you're here on this planet. You're a human being, no better or worse than anybody else. An unhealthy self-esteem comes from the outside in. And for many men, it's performance-based. >> I have worth because of what I can do. I have worth because of how much I earn. And for many women, it's otherbased. I have worth because you think I do. >> And that cracked for both of you. you were going to be taken care of by Prince Charming, but Prince Charming was

drinking himself down the toilet and depressed as hell cuz his performance-based esteem had cracked. So, you know what? It doesn't mean there was something wrong with you. >> It means there was something wrong with what you were both trying to live up to >> and it didn't work. >> Yeah. The problem is, okay, so what was going on? This is one of the great things nobody gets. All relationships are an endless dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair. That's what you and Chris live through big time. >> All relationships are an endless dance of harmony, disharmony,

and repair. >> That's correct. And here's what I'm Going to guess. Because as you're listening right now to Terry, as you're watching this on YouTube, first of all, I want you, wherever you are, whether you're single, whether you're heartbroken, whether you're in a marriage that feels like roommates, whether you're recognizing the resentment that is coming up in your relationship. Carrie is asking us all to look at where you're at as one giant opportunity. And when you say all relationships are either or are an endless stance of harmony, disharmony, and repair, I'm willing to guess based

on my own experience, Terry, being married 29 years, that most couples are in harmony and disharmony. harmony and disharmony, but no repair. >> No repair because that's where the skills come in and we don't know them. But also, >> two things. First of all, our culture Doesn't even acknowledge the disharmony to begin with. A good relationship is all harmony. That's what you thought when you were young. >> That's true. >> And you were bitterly disappointed. >> Yes. And aimed it right at him. >> Well, of course, he failed you. But you picked him. Uh, I

like to say we all marry our unfinished business. >> Whoa, hold on. We all marry our Unfinished business. >> You got it. You know what? Young Mal could have had a guy that would have done everything she wanted him to do. I guarantee you, there were guys you dated who you would not have gone through this crisis with. They did not blip on your screen. >> I call this the mysticism of marriage. >> The mysticism of marriage. >> Yes. We have the opportunity to heal our deepest wounds. Not falling in love means, "Oh, yeah. This

person's going to give it to me. I'm going to be healed. They're going to give me everything I didn't get. Good luck." A real relationship comes, I like to say, when you realize your partner is, here's my quote, exquisitly designed to stick the burning spear right into your eyeball. That's the crisis. That's not a bad relationship. That's a Real relationship. The question is now what? >> Are you just going to repeat the same old same old? That's hell. or are you going to wake up and do something different? The crisis can wake you up if

you allow it, but you have to do it. And so there's a lot that goes into why we don't wake up, how to wake up, and if we do stay awake, what the hell do we do then? >> What does Unfinished business mean? that what does because because it's true. The person that you're in a relationship with has an uncanny way to get under your skin, piss you off, frustrate the hell out of you. >> You love them, but you want to kill them at times, right? >> Yeah. >> Definitely want to change them. >>

Yeah. >> But what does unfinished business mean Exactly for us? It means that you are now exactly in the childhood wound that that son of a gun that you picked was supposed to never put you in. You have been fundamentally betrayed. You are back. You're four. You're with your crazy family and your partner is just as chaotic, it turns out, as your dad was. your partner is just as betraying as your mom was. Whatever the wound is, all of a sudden it's in your face and that's not what You signed up for. And you hate

that son of a gun. You are talking to the guy. My favorite quote is normal marital hatred. >> Normal marital hatred. >> Normal marital hatred. [laughter] >> My god. And I got to tell you, I've been around the world talking about normal marital hatred for 40. Not once has anyone come backstage and said, "What? What do you mean by that?" [laughter] >> You just don't say it next to the spouse you're sitting next to, right? >> But you feel it. >> We do. There is a part of me and I used to say a part

of me. There's a part of me that hates you right now. >> Yes. Okay. Here's why. But more important, here's what we can do to get the hell out of this thing together. Let's hold on. >> So, if we just take these take I'm just going to keep building here. So, wherever it is that you are >> Yeah. >> in that neverending dance in the relationship. >> Yeah. >> That the partner that you're with or the relationship that just ended offers you the opportunity to deal with unfinished business, >> right? And the opportunity and the

unfinished business is that in every single relationship that you're in, your childhood crap >> comes up >> and their childhood crap comes up >> comes up. And so is it safe to say that when you look at the person that you're in a relationship with as an adult that you really are looking at not the adult version, but really I should be thinking about Chris is here's the little 8-year-old version of Chris and now he's my husband. >> It depends on who's there. >> Who's who? >> Who's there? As a therapist, uh my most Critical

question uh is not what are the stressors, it's not even what's the pattern. The most critical question uh which part of you am I speaking to we're talking right now. My wise adult brain is talking to your wise adult brain. >> Yes. >> Prefrontal cortex, >> okay, >> doesn't develop until 26 years old. When You get trauma triggered, when Chris betrays you, when Belinda betrays me in exactly the way I hired them to never do, godamn it, I get flooded. I get trauma flooded. And then what comes up is what we call the wounded child

part of you. Very young, just you know, cry, cry, cry, rage, rage, rage between this very immature part of the brain and it's subcortical. It's a different part of your brain. And this very mature part of the brain is what I call the adaptive Child [snorts] part of you. And that's what I work with. The adaptive child part of you is the you that you learned to be growing up in that crazy family. Fight, you know, that knee-jerk survival. >> Yes. >> Fight, flight, or fawn, which as an adult means fix. Fight. Screw me, screw

you. flight. I'm shutting this down and fix. Oh my god. Oh my god. You're upset. Let me It's not working on things from Mature places. It's an anxious over functioning is what you write about. >> Yeah. >> So fight, flight, or fix is a knee-jerk. It's automatic. We think as an adult. It does okay out in the world often, but it makes a mess of your relationships. So what makes life difficult is you're in harmony, you're a wise adult. You get into disharmony, that prefrontal cortex out the window. And now it's automatic Knee-jerk survival. And

you do what you did as a kid and it doesn't work. And the more you do it, the more it doesn't work, the more frustrated you get, not with you, but with your partner. You have to take a breath. Take a breath. The first skill we teach people now is what I call relational mindfulness. When you're flooded, when you're triggered, take a break. Walk around the block. Take 10 breaths. Because what happens is when you move From harmony into disharmony, you get wounded. >> And then most of us have about 10 seconds worth of tolerance

for that. We don't stay in that wound and we move into our automatic habitual response and it doesn't work. Remember I said your merry unf. That's healing. The healing comes when you can pull yourself out of that automatic subcortical part of the brain and wake up. I call it relational mindfulness. Okay. I also call it remembering love. Okay. He's not the enemy. He's my guy. I don't hate him. I love him. We're struggling. What the hell do we do? I don't know. But let's talk about it. >> When you're there, then you can use the

skills. But the first skill is getting into the part of you I I uh I like to say other therapies teach you skills. What I've created, I call relational life therapy, deals with the part of you that won't use them. >> Oh my god. Well, I once heard somebody say that one of the reasons why often times therapy can help you really be aware of things and help you understand what's happening. But when you're talking to a therapist or a doctor or even a friend or you and I having a conversation right now, you are

using your prefrontal cortex. I'm present. I'm not stressed out right now. I'm not in fight or flight. You're not pissing me off. So, I'm in the wise adult part of My brain. >> Yeah. >> And so, you and I may talk. Okay. Next time I come home from traveling for 10 days and I walk in the house and there are dead flowers in dirty water sitting in the middle of the island in the kitchen. >> There you go. >> Which floods me. >> That's right. >> And I think how many times did I and Does

nobody know that I'm coming back? Does nobody know that I care? I go right into that which I'm sure if Chris is in the next room and he hears the volcano erupting that is the wounded Mel Robbins. >> Well, he probably shuts down. >> It's not the wounded Mel Robbins cuz you don't go to Crest and go, you know, I feel my feelings are hurt that I come home and those flowers are dead. I I don't feel like I don't feel cared About. >> No. Why would I do that when I can when I can

take a photo [laughter] and send a passive aggressive text message? Why would I do that, Terry, when I can dump the flowers out in the sink loudly >> and then throw the things in the trash as if I'm sending anger signal waves? >> Yeah. >> I'm like this was an old dynamic between us. >> Well, and a lot of other people in my Marriage, too. >> So, pull apart that. Well, when you're in the hurt, you know, I feel abandoned. I feel uncared about. And we could go into your childhood, but I'm sure that that

has resonance. And but like all of us, you have about two seconds worth of tolerance for that >> helplessness and vulnerability. And you go one, you go from the one down to the one up. You go from shame, helplessness, not cared about to anger, Indignation. What kind of person does that? And what's devilish about that is you feel better. It works >> because I think Why does it work? >> Because grandiosity feels good. Shame feels bad. The wound feels bad. The adaptation feels good. It works. We're not. So, look, we move into these defensive moves.

Self-medication, rage, affairs, they make a mess of our lives. But we're not so stupid that we move into stuff that feels bad. It feels good. >> Grandiosity feels good. That's one of my great contributions of my work. Grandiosity feels good. It just makes a hash of things. So, you have to take a breath. You're a fighter. I'm a fighter. Belinda's a fighter. >> Yours is a shutter downer. >> Okay. Well, there you go. >> He goes right into Don't talk. >> Bye. >> Goodbye. >> Yeah. The more you rage, the more I shut down. >>

And then that makes you so frustrated. >> Well, then you rage more and then they shut down more and then you or same thing if you're a fixer. Now I'm trying to fix this and now you're getting more angry at me or now I'm just trying to solve this and now you won't even talk To me. And so >> I can see how you get stuck in a loop with something. >> Yeah. Everybody comes to me in a loop. The more the more. >> Wait, hold on. Everybody that comes to you, Terry >> is in

a loop. >> And it's this loop of your adaptation of what you did as a kid. >> That's right. M his adaptation. >> Makes his adaptation as a kid. I I want To read to you from your New York Times bestseller, US. This is page nine and it's the chapter that is entitled, "Which version of you shows up to your relationship?" There's no redeeming value in harshness. >> Ah, yeah. >> I'm the harsh one. I I'll own it. I have my tone. I'm a fighter. I >> Yes. Let's take a look at just one of

the immature qualities that are prevalent in our adaptive child. >> Yes. harshness. I tell my clients that if they walk away from their sessions with me with just this one concept, they will have spent their therapy money. Well, here it is. There is no redeeming value whatsoever in harshness. Harshness does nothing that loving firmness doesn't do better. >> That's revolution. That's life-changing. And by the way, harshness between you Being harsh to somebody, no value. Allowing them to be harsh to you, no value. And watch this. You being harsh to you, no value. >> How many

of us think, well, I have to be firm with myself in order to whip myself. And uh think about the way we deal with kids on a good day. You don't have to be harsh to be firm. Be firm. You know, I'm 75. I like to tell my clients at 75, I have a deal with the universe. If it's not Kind, I'm not interested. And that's whether it's me talking to you or me listening to you or me talking to me. You know, that adaptive child part of me is very harsh. I grew up with

a violent father. And I was very violent between my ears for decades. Nowadays, that harsh critic I know is just my little teenage fighter. Kept me alive. Okay, little 17-year-old shitkicker. Don't let nobody take Advantage. Okay, got it, pal. You may have something to say to me, and I'll listen, but you got to say it like you're on my side. Take that in. Say it like you're on my side. >> Then I'll listen. >> When you start to have this awakening that, oh, I do that, I'm doing this or they do that or do the

other thing. What's the next step? >> Take a break. >> Take a break. >> Stop it. Take a break. Duck in. You know, I deal with all these tough ass guys. I mean, NFL players, they're ducking into the bathroom, putting their little 5-year-old boys on their laps, and talking to them five, six times, literally five, six times a day. So, take a break. Relational mindfulness. Come out of that reactivity. Remember, the person is not 14t tall with five arms. They're your friend. They're your lover. They're an idiot just like you are. No better or worse.

Calm down. Okay. Now go back in the fray and use a skill, but don't try it until you're centered. First step is getting centered. And you know, how do you bring up difficult topics >> with love? Who does that? [laughter] I was like, and how do I do that? Like let's say that that you know somebody's Let their health go or that they're not motivated or they are not getting help for for their depression or they seem to have started isolating and they're not seeing their friends anymore. How how do you bring that up? And

it's a difficult topic and it's something that has kind of led to standoffs or arguments and you just don't know how to even bring it up without the other person feeling attacked or shutting down. >> Well, you do your best. And you know, you could be taking a page from Mother Teresa and they still feel attacked because they're in their adoptive child and they feel attacked if you say godamn anything to them. And that's not your responsibility. It's theirs. But you do your best. >> So tenderness works better than harshness. Honey, sit down. Let me

take your hand. These are the things I'm noticing. I'm worried about you. >> You know this, this, and this. Give them the data. this this and this eye makeup not you are eye makeup that you're depressed these days and I think it would be good for all of us if you did something about it look I wrote the book on male depression back in the 90s it was the first book ever written and what I said and I NIH did a public service campaign about male Depression I said if you want to help depressed men

aim your data at the women. This is not a moment. And this is our individualistic culture. >> Oh, he needs to call the doctor. And yeah, well, good luck with that. How about I'll try calling the doctor. I'll get him in my car and we'll drive together. And if that doesn't work, how about this? We're going to go to a couple's therap. We've tried to talk about it. I haven't found a way to talk to you about it. We need help. So, even if you think it's their problem, go to a couple's therapist and put

it in front of them. >> Well, as I'm really listening to you, there are no problems that are their problems because every problem is our problem. >> Your relationship is your biosphere. We're not above it. We're not below it. We're in it, baby. And it's in our Interest to keep that biosphere healthy. How do you shift from me versus you to us versus the problem, especially in situations where the problem is you're drinking or the problem is you're not motivated or the problem is you've let yourself go. Or at least that's what you think you

think the problem is with them. >> Well, first have some humility. This is what I think. Or even more to the point, this is what I'm not happy about. This Is what's not comfortable for me. Look, I'm working. You're not. I come home. You're on the couch drinking a beer. The place is a mess. I I got to tell you, Bill, I I don't mind being the woman going out and being the bread winner, but could you at least be a good wife when I get home? I mean, this sucks. Keep it >> sounds a

little judgmental. >> Well, but keep it personal. >> Okay, >> keep it humble. Keep it real. This is hard for me. You may not be uncomfortable with dot dot dot, but I'm uncomfortable with it. We live together. Can we talk about what needs to happen here? >> Um, is there a way to fight constructively? >> Sure. >> How do you do it? >> This is what happened. [laughter] This is what I told myself. This is how I felt and this is what I want. But listen to this. >> Okay. >> That third step. This is

what I felt. >> Yeah. >> Here's a tip. >> Tell me. Take the feeling that comes to you first and put it last. >> Okay. Anger. So like if anger is the thing that comes up for me first. >> Yeah. Last. If you if you lead with big strong take into your vulnerability. >> What's underneath that? Lead with that. Don't I come home to dead flowers. You son of a [ __ ] How can who? What kind of person? No, I come home to the dead flowers. I I don't feel cared about. >> It is

kind of lonely. I felt lonely. I felt helpless. I felt um uh uncared about and I felt Angry last, not first. And Chris will have a lot easier time hearing it. And conversely, if you're like codependent >> and how do you know if you're codependent? Because I think that that's one of those words that I feel like it's out there and I don't I don't even know that I really understand what codependent. >> You call it overfunctioning. >> Over functioning. >> Yeah. It's that anxious is the fixer. >> Anxious. >> So So codependent means that

you only feel okay when everybody around you is okay. >> That's right. Oh, >> and you're afraid to rock the boat. >> Oh. Oh, >> yeah. That's what that means. >> Okay. >> And so, look, your relationship is your Biosphere. If you're a one-up fighter like you and me, Belinda, come your biosphere needs you to come down off your high horse. Uh, my feelings were hurt. Oh, your biosphere is happy with that. If you're a one down fixer, don't set daddy off. Your bias needs you to stand up and find some spine. >> How do

you do that? Like what what is your advice to the person that's listening? It goes, "Well, that is me. I Need to make sure that everybody's okay. I'm always walking on eggshells. Everybody else comes first, but then of course I'm exhausted and resentful because nobody's taking care of me. How do I stand up? How do I start to change that adaptive fixing little kid in me? >> Yeah. Well, turn to that kid because you learned to run around and fix everything as a little girl or little boy. What would have happened if you hadn't done

that in that family you Grew up with? Odds are all hell would have broken. We always respect the intelligence of the adaptive child. You did what you had to do. Good for you. It's time to retire. You're not that little girl. Chris is not the family you grew up with. You can do something. Can I tell you a story? >> Yeah, please. >> This is my classic adaptive child story. Absolutely true story. >> Okay. >> Couple comes to me on the brink of divorce. He's a liar. lies about everything. She says to him, "If you

ask him what color shoes he has on, he'll lie and say he has sneakers." I mean, he'll lie about and therapist will kind of I walk in the office and I go, "Hi, Bill. The sky's is blue." He goes, "Well, it's not he's not going to tell me he's blue. He won't give it to me." So, I get right away what his deal is, the adaptive Child. He's an invader. Nobody's going to get him. All right. Then I think, okay, the adopted child is adapting to someone. There's someone on the other end of that seessaw.

So I go, who tried to control you growing up? >> His father. True story. Military man. How he sad, how he ate, his What did he do with his controlling father? He looks at me and he smiles. That's resistance. That's why. He says, "I lied. Dad said, "Don't play with Henry." I played with Henry. I told my play with John, "Smart boy. Good for you. Always respect the strategy that you learned as a kid, but retire them. You're in the back seat. Wise adult is here today. I can take care of this better than you

can." Literally, when Belinda and I are having a fight, honest to God, and she's coming at me with anger, because that's what we do. It could be me. I have little Terry. I've worked with him eight-year-old. I put him behind me. Between her anger and you little Terry is me. My big adult body. We have a deal. You're protected back there. Her rage stops with me. Doesn't hit you. Here's your part of the deal. I deal with my wife, not you. You'll make a mess of it. So, okay. So, here's my liar. [snorts] So, smart

boy. By the way, you're not five anymore and your wife isn't your dad. See you. True story. Two weeks later, they come back hand in Hand. We're cured. And they were, Mel. I said, "Okay, there's a story here. Tell me." Over the weekend, she sends him to the grocery store to get 12 things. True to form, he comes back with 11. He says, "Where's the pumpern nickel?" And he's going to lie. Of course, he's going to lie. He doesn't want to get chewed out by his father. And he said, "Every muscle and nerve in my

body was screaming to say they were out of the pumpern Nickel, which was not true." This moment, I took a breath. I thought of you, Terry. I was lending him my prefrontal cortex. We can do that for each other. Mhm. >> I thought of you. I looked my wife in the eye and I said, "I forgot the goddamn pump nickel." It's absolutely true, Mel. She burst into tears. And she said, "I've been waiting for this moment for 25 years." That's recovery. >> Come out of that adaptive child into the prefrontal cortex. Tell the truth. Use

a skill. >> Wow. I can see how this relates to um that something you said in the very beginning where when you fall in love with somebody, you think you're going to be rescued from the behavior in yourself that you feel stuck with the rage or the, You know, shutting down or the lying or the, you know, walking on eggshells. >> Yeah. Whatever you learned to do as a kid, >> whatever you learned to do as a kid, >> whatever you needed to do as a kid. >> Yeah. And so I can see how in

the absolute bliss of a new relationship and you're just falling, falling, falling, you believe that it's always going to be like this. And sure enough, >> sure enough, >> what comes up is the opportunity to do the work to become the wise adult and not have the adaptive child and all of the default behaviors that happen when you get flooded emotionally or when you >> get triggered. And when you really think about the person as it's their adaptive child in the room with your adaptive child when you guys are emotionally flooded, >> you got it.

and any single thing, Whether it's I forgot the [ __ ] pumpern nickel bread or it's the and now she's going to be a [ __ ] so I'm going to lie, which is what I did as a kid, or it's the tiptoe walking or the raging or the venting or the being right or whatever. Like every single one of those things, whether it's triggered by Amazon boxes or it's triggered by pumpern nickel or it's triggered by their drinking >> or it's triggered by absolutely Anything. >> Anything. >> It's the same cycle. It's the same

wound. It's the same emotions. And you're going to be trapped there forever. >> And here's where your work is genius. What we do when we're back in the old womb is we redouble our efforts to get that son of a gun to give us what they were supposed to give us. That's why we married them. Or we react out of that Adaptation when they don't give it to us. We fight, we fight, we do whatever we do. >> Yeah. >> Here's the new news. Take a breath. They ain't going to give it to you. Watch

this. How about if you give it to you? You were abandoned as a kid. You come home, dead flowers. Abandonment comes up. Not 50year-old Mel or fouryear-old Mel. You turn to that four-year-old girl. Chris may be abandoning you right now, but I'm not. >> I'm here. I got you, kid. M >> I like to say maturity comes when we deal with our inner children and don't force them off on our parties to deal with >> Oh, I love that. Maturity comes when we deal with that inner child, that adaptive self that needed to do whatever

it does, whether it's the anger, whether it's the righteousness, whether it's a Shutting down, whether it's whatever it is. When we deal with that person, >> love you, kid. when when the inner child which means you just when you're reactive. >> Yeah. So talk about emotional flooding and emotional overfunctioning. What is that the same thing as the adaptive child? >> Well, yeah. First you get flooded. That's the wounded child. >> Okay. >> And then you get yourself out of that flooding by moving into your adaptive child. >> Gotcha. So you So like let's just take

it as fast. >> Well, you walk in. Yes. >> And the flowers are dead. >> Yes. There's a little male that was not taken care of and that's what gets triggered. >> Yeah. >> And you're not your adult self feeling Let down in a moderate way. You're that four or 5year-old little girl who was never dealt with the way she should have been. And it it's you're flooded. But you don't like that feeling of helpless. So you move from helplessness to attack, from one down to one up. These are the roots of violence for all

of us. >> Yeah. >> And the one up feels better. It gets you out of that helplessness, but it makes a mess of your marriage. So you have to Think your way down from the one up. >> Well, recognizing that you're just emotionally flooded is important. Recognizing that [clears throat] you're now in react react react mode, which is why taking that breath, >> right? >> And consciously pulling yourself back into the wise adult. >> Yes. Which may mean, did you take a 20-minute walk around the block? You have a contract with your partner. Did look,

hey, I'm flooded. See you in 20 minutes. And man, your partner says it. Let them go. Don't Don't corner an animal. >> Okay. Bye. Don't corner an animal. >> No, you don't want to do that. >> It's incredible. Why does emotional overfunctioning and shutting down? Why do these patterns tend to attract people into a partnership >> cuz it's your unfinished business. So, May I >> Yes, please. >> All right. Here we go. Mel, ready? >> Yeah. >> All right. So the fighter male, your adaptive child is what I would call one up and boundaryless. >>

You're one up. You're grandiose. Y >> you're attacking. You're righteous. He's he's a dick. He's a dick. >> Uh but underneath that are the feelings of abandonment, Aloneeness, which is your childhood wound. >> Yeah. >> Uh uh my friend and colleague Gab Mate says uh in relationships, you don't see the wound, you see the scar. You don't see the wounded child, you see the adaptive child. So you come home, dead flowers. Little girl Mal not cared about the way she should have been. And if you were to sit with her, she'd be crying. She'd be

lonely, but you Don't cuz that's painful. >> So you go one up in the grandiosity, self-righteousness attack. Now you're powerful, but you're making a goddamn mess of things. [laughter] Take a >> break. Feel bad about it because you don't want to make a mess of things. You don't want Well, at least I do. >> You feel bad about it five minutes later. >> Yes, >> you have a hangover. But in the moment, >> he deserves it. You're right. Let's go. And that's what this is all about. Then you take a break. Hold it. I'm about

to lose my [ __ ] See you. or hold it. I'm going to shut down. Let me get myself adjusted and I'm going to come back and talk to you. Whatever the adaptation is, you got to sit with that little part of you. It's okay. He loves you. He's an idiot about the dead flowers, but he does love you. Come back. Don't re him a new one. That's not Going to work. Come back and talk to him about what's going on. But you have to be in your right mind. And that's the opportunity that the

healing doesn't come when you get the son of a gun to give it to you. That's the dream. >> The healing comes when they don't and you deal with it not the way you learned as a kid, but in a new way that heals. Okay, that is the most important thing in my opinion that you have said because You are now pointing at the source of power and healing and one of the mistakes is that we are trying to get that from our partner and through our partner changing. >> Right. And what you just said

is that the healing comes not from them changing. The healing that you need comes from you stopping yourself in that moment, taking a breath, Not allowing all of the patterns of the past and the adaptive child to come in and fix or freeze or rage >> and make a mess >> and make a mess. But to just see it happening and then bring the wise adult to the room and respond in a new way. That is the healing. >> That's the healing. That's the opportunity. >> You know, for somebody who Uh tends to hold everything

in, you know, the baller, you you you see the thing that hurts your feelings. that you you feel the emotion that is worry or hurt or abandonment or the the thing be that's you said always take the first feeling anger resentment put it in the back what's the feeling underneath it for somebody that's like bottling it up bottling it up bottling it up they're feeling fear >> what are they afraid of >> they're afraid that if they tell the truth and rock the boat it ain't going to go well and odds are they grew up

in a family where it wouldn't have gone The adoptive child is not stupid. You learn to do what you godamn needed to do back then, but you're not back there anymore. >> That's the beauty. >> How do you learn to communicate your feelings in These little moments instead of just putting it aside and putting it aside until you reach a breaking point? >> Well, you have to dare to rock the boat. This goes back to the three steps. Dare to rock the boat and tell the truth. Listen, and then teach somebody what you want and

reward them in a kind way when they do. >> And for those of you listening, it may be that your childhood trauma, you know, we said you can have little injuries and Have an adaptive child that's screwing things up. That's too, but you can also have big injuries. big. You're going to have grown up in a family where you you learn not to tell the truth because if you did tell the truth, it would not be a good idea. Okay, that was then. This is now. It really helps to separate the wise adult from the

adapter child. >> What does a healthy connected relationship Really look like in practice? telling the truth to each other with love and being human. You know, there are times Belind and I are at each other and I really wouldn't want a video camera recording what would sound like. [laughter] I like to say to my clients, look, the skills I'm teaching, here's what I say. Every skill I I've been married for 40 years. Every skill I teach has been clinically tested. She's the clinic. [laughter] My god. And on those days when either Belinda or God help

us, if we both at the same time lose our wise adults and just go with the adaptive child, we look just as ugly as you two. I say that to my page. They love hearing. I'm just like you. Uh, use your skills as best you can. Expect the wheels to come off. Sometimes nobody's going to die. When they do, get back in your wise adult. Make amends. Apologize. Own your [ __ ] Get back on track. We're a biosphere. We love each other. Let's work this out. I can say every single fight issue breakdown that

I have had in my 29 years of marriage, I can now 1,000% see that it's this feeling of being alone and that it's all on me and it is like freaking clockwork. >> Yeah. >> Once you see it, you will see it everywhere. >> Everywhere. And you know what? What a blessing. Maybe after this conversation, I want you to email me and tell me what a blessing it would be for you to come home. The goddamn flowers are dead. And instead of ripping his head off, which he then shuts you down, >> Yeah. >> you

say to him, "You know what, honey? Shoot me. I know you didn't mean it. I saw those dead flowers. I'm back in my little girl, not being cared about." And It made me sad. >> You see what he does then? >> Yeah. Well, I can also not get mad at him and I can also assume good intent and I can also know that like a lot of times he does remember and I and and this is like something we thought about 10 years ago. So it sounds kind of funny to even be thinking about it

now cuz it's not not it's one of the ones that but the point is >> the little things become the big things Because the little things are the source of >> the little things the little things resonate with what happened to us >> so they take on bigger meaning >> but what you say is right you know I love talking to older couples I ask them about their life I I saw it had to be late He married 15. I said, "You guys seem h we are." I said, "Tell me." Oh, the first 15 years

were hell. Really? Yeah. Horrible. I kept trying to change Harry. And then one day, this is absolutely true. I'm out of and then one day I looked at him and I went, "Oh, that's Harry." Okay. Ever since then, we've been fine. [laughter] There is a place for I call it scanning for the positive instead of scanning for the negative. be appreciative. Tell your partner what they're doing right instead of always harping on what they're doing wrong. >> So, there are so many listener questions Uh that we have and I'd love to read one from a

listener in Chicago. We've been together for 12 years. We love each other. There's no doubt about that. But if I'm being honest, >> huh, >> it feels like the spark is gone. uh >> same routines, same conversations, same habits, same every there's no fighting, there's no big drama, but there's no real excitement or passion either. I don't even know what desire would look Like for us anymore. It feels flat. And here's the part I'm struggling with. I want to bring that spark back, but I don't want it to be forced or fake. How do we

actually reconnect with desire and intimacy after years together without pretending or going through the emotions? >> What makes you think they would be fake? Why don't you start off by saying to your partner what you just wrote to me? Why don't you tell the truth? Look, I I Did a whole book, audio book. I called it fierce intimacy. Lean in and deal with each other. Most people don't. We stop cuz when we do, we're so unskilled it doesn't go very well. M. >> So, we back off. We say we're compromising, but we're not. We resent

it. Distance grows. Sexuality dies. If you want to keep your relationship juicy, tell the truth to each other. Take each other on. Start with this. We're flat. Maybe you're okay being, you know, watching TV every night, but I'm not. Let's go do ballroom. And then like, okay, you're flat. What are you going to do about it? You show up in a with a mariachi band. You uh [laughter] you know, you go to the the sex store and get some velvet chains. I don't know. What are you going to do to mix it up? Why are

you waiting for your partner to do it? But tell the truth to each Other. We stop doing that because we're very unskilled and when we do, it doesn't go well. We have to learn how to do it. >> Here's another question. I've been married for 11 years and I'm realizing I've become the critic in the relationship. I notice everything my husband does wrong. The socks on the floor, the way he loads the dishwasher, the tone when he talks to the kids. It's like I'm constantly scanning for what's Off or annoying. And here's the thing. I

don't want to be that way. He's a good man. I love him, but I rarely notice the good stuff until he points it out. Like, why is it that you only mention what I'm doing wrong? And he's right. I don't want to keep showing up this way. I just don't know how to switch out of this mindset. How do I stop scanning for what's wrong and start seeing what's good again? What's going on in this dynamic? Because I think that's really relatable when you got somebody picking on somebody all the time. >> Yeah. It's a

form of control. I would say uh who was the complainer in your family growing up, hun? Where'd you learn this from? >> There's an adaptive child in there that thinks that picking at him is going to be a good thing. And then the other issue is man intimacy is scary. Vulnerability is scary. Does it feel safer to be constantly nagging what's wrong than to open up and receive what's right? >> And that's so true for all of us. And the more damage you had as a kid, the more frightening it is. We fuss with each

other because being close to each other in itself can be trauma triggering for us. It's scary to be vulnerable and close. You have to allow it. That's the piece I work with next. First, we deal with what you do wrong. We deal with what came where it came from. We give you the skills to do it different. Now you have to receive it. >> And that's brand new for a lot of us. And it's frightening. There's more. I talk about miserable, comfortable, happy, uncomfortable. >> Let's talk about miserable, comfortable. What does that look like? >>

That looks like the same old same old. You could do it in your sleep. But you could do it in your sleep. You're perfectly comfortable there. Oh. Uh, Chris, honey, when I came home and those flowers were dead, I was back in my family and I didn't feel very cared about. How's that feel? Freaking scary. That's how that feels. It's a lot more comfortable to go after them. Adopted children, you're safe. You're comfortable. You could do it in your Sleep. >> Wise adult, new, courageous, scary. Good. go there with help, with support, 12step group, woman's

group, but support that will support your relationship, not your individual power. >> What's so interesting is everybody wants love and wants to feel loved. And I never thought about it as a skill to allow yourself to be loved. >> Yeah. And it it's hard. So I when I'm working with a couple, >> partner A starts giving partner B what they want. Now we move into what I call transmission reception. Partner A is transmitting. How's partner B doing receiving? >> When your partner starts giving you what you want. Do we fall in their arms and go

say, "No, we don't. It's too little, too late. you did it, but I had to ask you and all these yes, buts. That's to Protect ourselves from the vulnerability of being loved. Allowing our hearts to open, allowing the love in. That's scary. And the less love you had as a kid, the scarier it is to let yourself love and be loved as an adult. >> I have to tell you a story. >> Oh, tell me >> about the nitpickers. Yeah, the nitpickers, please. >> I was doing a men's group and one guy Floored everybody. This

is a true story. He said, "My wife walked in today, [snorts] told my admin, hold the phone." She had a picnic basket, laid out a picnic on the ground, champagne, a little smooching, packed up everything and left. All the other guys are like, "Oh my god, that's fantastic." He looks at us all, true story. He goes, "It almost makes up for the way she chews her potato chips. [laughter] You want you want to foster your Partner's imperfection, they will give you. It's like vision endless opportunity to no. Be brave. Open your heart. Be vulnerable. If

you're a one-own fixer, the vulnerability is standing up for yourself. That's what's scary. If you're a one-up fighter, the vulnerability is moving into the hurt. Be a human. But either way, open your heart, take some risks. Intimacy is what we're born for. And respect it. It's frightening. So, is That story in the joke an example of how somebody blocks out the love and intimacy? >> Yeah. Yeah. I did work with the great feminist psychologist Carol Gilligan here. We would work together and I called it Carol's invariant description. I'd be doing all this fancy cool and

she Sorry, Carol. She said the same damn thing every time. She'd look at a couple and she would go, "You know, Bill and and Julie, intimacy is really scary, Isn't it? You guys were just close to each other and and then Bill, you brought up a fight from a week ago and Jill, you took the B. Now you're back in your corners, safe and miserable. Isn't it hard to just be in the naked vulnerability of loving each other and being close?" And every time, of course, it would be beautifully timed. Every time she would say

it, they burst into tears. And she was always right. It's scary to be intimate. >> It takes courage. >> I'm 34 and I'm realizing I have no idea how to be in a healthy relationship. I either give way too much, I overfunction, people please, twist myself into knots, trying to keep everyone happy, or I do the opposite. I shut down, shut people out, convince myself I don't need anybody. I swing between the two. It's exhausting. It wasn't modeled healthy love growing up. And now that I'm older, I don't even Know what healthy is supposed to

feel like. How do I start figuring that out? What does a healthy relationship look like? And how do I learn to trust myself enough to build one? >> Well, I brought up Carol Gilligan. Here's one of my great quotes from her. I love this. You cannot love from the one down that's running around cleaning everybody's mess. You cannot love from the one up. Shut down. I don't care about anybody. Love demands democracy. So this person has to learn how to be in the biosphere. There's no relationship without voice. There's no voice without relationship. That's also

Carol. >> Can you do this with yourself all day long? Like if work is pissing you off, if work makes you shut down, if a friendship makes you get angry. [snorts] >> Yeah. Although what's interesting is we Tend to be more on our wise adults with everyone but our mates and sometimes our kids uh they they just don't get at us in the same way. Uh but yeah, your adaptive child's all over the place. Do you do uh consulting to teams that aren't working or >> No, but I meant like if she's single and so

she's not in a relationship. >> She is in a relationship. She has a relationship. She's got parents, she's got friends, she's got Siblings, she's got a dog, we're all in relationships and it's the same skills and the same work. >> Got it. So if the question is I look at my track record and I do not trust myself and I don't know how to do this and it wasn't modeled and you've already said Terry it hasn't been modeled for anybody and nobody teaches these skills. You can start applying absolutely everything >> now. >> Right now.

>> Right now >> even if you're not in a romantic relationship, >> you're still in a relationship. >> Yeah. You're still in relationships. And so these are the tools that you can use for any relationship. >> This way of thinking relationally, not individualistically. >> And these tools of telling the truth with love and non-h harshness, but Telling the truth, they're so different from the culture at large. And they're so potent that doing them badly will transform your life. And here's the great news. You can start doing them badly right now. [laughter] Go ahead. >> Because

it's such a disruption to the way we run around and pretend and lie and please and shove our feelings down and rage that simply trying to do these things badly, telling the truth, using Eye statements, not venting, not trying to be right, >> your partner will be blown away. >> Well, you'll also be blown away. >> You should be >> by yourself. >> It's a happier way to live. Well, I often joke, Terry, that, you know, people say that second marriages are really amazing, and I say that's especially true if it's with the same person.

>> Wow. >> And I feel like the tremendous amount of work that I've done on myself and that Chris and I have done together, it feels like a completely different relationship because I feel way more peaceful. >> Yeah. And I was I know you will say this is probably not true because we're all out of control when we don't understand that adaptive child and the behaviors that come out on automatic when you're Emotionally flooded. But I felt so out of control with my anger, with my frustration, with my feelings of being alone even though I'm

married. that I thought it would always feel that way. >> Yeah. >> And it's shocking how quickly you can start to apply these skills and feel more peaceful and in control and in harmony with yourself first. >> That's the joy. >> Yes. A >> and you also get a better relationship. It's both. >> What happens? Can you speak a little bit about that feeling of you're in a relationship and yet you're really lonely? >> I call that um alone together. alone together. >> Yeah. Being alone together. >> And it's because you're not telling the Truth

>> and you're not getting through. You know that cliche of the couple at the restaurant that's sitting there with nothing to say. >> Oh my god. You see so many. >> Yeah. Well, here's what I say. It isn't that they have nothing to say. It's they have too much to say and no way of saying it. That's why they're sitting there inside. >> If the person listening is feeling like Okay, I'm together alone. What am I going to do? I'm gonna like I'm I'm going to start telling the truth and blow this whole thing up.

>> Well, >> isn't it better to just be together alone and instead of blowing up my life? >> I mean, first of all, learn >> because I think that's the fear. >> Well, of course it's the fear. And if you go off like a seven-year-old adaptive child, what I call uh Individual empowerment, I was weak, now I'm strong. Go screw yourself. >> The person may blow up. So getting through to somebody is an art. You have to learn how to do it. But even that is just maximizing your possibility. At the end of the day,

it goes like this. First, learn some skills. Do it well. But beating the person over the head probably has something to do with why they're not listening to you. Two, once you learn the skills and you do your Best. If you're still not getting through, get help. Get a couple's therapy. And get a couple's therapist who really helps, which many don't. Three. You ready? >> Uhhuh. If you're still not fully there, I have a tool. Should I stay or should I go? And I call this tool a relational reckoning. And it's a question. You ready?

>> Yes. >> Am I getting enough here to make grieving what I'm not getting worth my while? Am I getting enough to make grieving what I'm not getting okay with me? You know what? Bill was a real playboy, a real lover, and he had partner after partner who swung from chandeliers. He's now married to a woman, one out of four, who has a sexual abuse history. She ain't swinging from chandeliers. She Needs it slow and general. Does Bill miss the wild old days? Yes, that's okay. Is he going to trade her in for one of

those crazy sex dolls? No. He loves her. I'm getting so much that letting go of what I'm not getting is okay with me. And if that's your answer, stop bitten and embrace what's good. >> If your answer is it's not okay with me, first stop is therapy and second stop is You're done. But don't keep living like a resentful victim. It's bad for everybody. I'm just letting that sit because it's easy to get yourself in a situation where you stay with the wrong person and you're right about how resentful you are and what a victim

you are. >> Yeah. Why are you staying with the wrong person? First of all, your first shot is turning them into the right person, Which I know goes against a little of what you've been saying, but you turn them into the right person by using your skills. >> Well, you they don't even have an opportunity to be the right person if you haven't done the work >> of asking for. >> Well, and also bringing the wise adult yourself to the relationship and then seeing who shows up. >> Yeah. When you're safe and when you're Wise

and when you are in the moment and calm and kind and asking for what you need, >> you totally got it. What do you What does that mean? They're the wrong person. And maybe if you change your behavior, guess what happens on the other side of the seesaw? Maybe. But why don't you give that a shot? You know, everybody who sees me as what I call an essentialist. What's wrong with my marriage? Them. What's wrong with them? Them who that's who they are. Yeah, it's a true story. Harry, well, Harry, whatever his name was, comes.

No sex in my marriage. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. How long? Decades. Why? She's frigid, you know. She's just a cold person. Whole family cold. Good. I bring in Mrs. Harry. No sex. No, of course not. Of course not. Yeah, you wouldn't want to have sex with him. Yeah, he's a premature ejaculator. Has been for decades. If I try and talk to him about It, he just flies into a rage. He has no interest in my needs. And anytime I try and address it, it just gets, "Forget it." I bring in Harry. It's a

true story. Harry, I've got great news for you. [laughter] That sexless marriage you're in, you have something to do with it. Once you stop blaming the other person and start to see that it's a system, if it is, you change your behavior and then see what happens. But first, change your Behavior. >> So, did they stay together? >> Yeah, they started having sex. He taught She taught him how to be a better lover and he was with I mean, this is where I come in. Harry is in your interest. Come down off your high horse.

Let her teach you. You want her in bed with you? Make it worth her while. That goes back to make it worth her while. Uh, really? Okay, I will. Good. Do it. That's what most therapists don't do. >> Do you think any relationship can be repaired? >> No. And I'm not in the business of repairing every relationship. So, what are some of the circumstances or like lines in the sand for you that are important to say? >> Um, in terms of non-starters, it goes without saying, but if you're physically in danger, Uh, if you're talking

I don't ask people to tell truth to power when they're going to get hurt if they do it >> and there unfortunately some reality to that. So, we don't do couples therapy if there's a threat of domestic violence. If you're the victim of honest to God, physical threat, get some help, get some safety. That's not coup's work. That's your work to get safe and your kids safe. And uh that is absolutely intolerable. Period. End of Story. Some are obvious. Somebody's got an addiction. They don't want to deal with alcoholism, sex addiction. Someone is uh chronically

irresponsible and they don't want to deal with it. Somebody has a major mental health disorder, depression, anxiet, they don't want to deal with it. All bets are all >> then some are more subtle. If there's a relationship where there's a clear um asymmetry in the maturity levels of the two People, >> eventually the immaturity of the immature one will be too painful for the other one to live with and they should go find a better partner. But before you go find a better partner, see if you can get this one to be a better partner

by changing your moves on your side of the net first. Try that. How honest should you be with your friends and family about the challenges in your relationship? Like where do you see the Line from just sort of healthy sharing and you know trying to get support because you feel like you can't talk or whatever reason versus sharing way too much that might hurt the partnership. >> Not family friends. >> What do you mean not family friends? >> Well, you you don't want your mother-in-law listening to Chris [ __ ] about what a rager you

are. You don't want that. >> No. You know, one of the biggest fights that Chris and I have ever had in our 29-year marriage was the fact that he shared things with his mom that we were struggling with. Like, he went to her for help. I was so angry about it. I felt so like betrayed because it felt like I was no longer married to Chris. felt like I was now married to her son and she was now in the middle of this issue we were trying to work out privately and it caused a Major

rift not only between me and Chris but I felt all of this distance with my mother-in-law who I'm you know really close with but for at least a year like I just it was really awful and I know he didn't mean it and I know he was just looking for the support that he needed. But wow, I I I have to say, do not go outside your marriage and bring in your family. It's not fair to your spouse because you're not in a Relationship with your mother-in-law. You're not in a relationship with, you know, your

partner's not in a relationship with your dad. They're in a relationship with you. So, give them the respect to work on it internally. Oh, I I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because while the intention I think was beautiful, the actual impact and result was very difficult and damaging. And we've of course cleaned it up and learned from It. But wow. Now, what about friends though? Because you said friends are okay. And and what are the parameters? Train. I teach people this. Train your friends to support relational empowerment, not individual

empowerment. >> Okay. What does that look like? >> Train your friends to support the relationship, >> not you as an individual. If they're going to support your marriage, then you Can [ __ ] about your partner. But if they're going to take your fetching about your partner as license to empower you at the expense of the relationship, that's not the friend you want. So what happens when you talk about your relationship and even that you're not pass you can train your friends to support the relationship so that it's safe >> to compl you know I

complain about Belinda, she complains about me. our Friends listen and they go, "Okay, have you ever thought that maybe you might dot dot dot?" Ah, come on, man. Think about it. That's a friend. >> So, you just say to them, "I need you. I I'm going to come to I want to come talk to you about something going on, but I want this to work. You know, I love him." That is that how you say it? Like, how do you say it? >> Yeah. I I You're empowering me to even be more of a fighter.

even more Righteously indignant. That is no help to me. >> So, if you're going to be my friend, I'm going to talk about my marriage. This is what my adopted child looks like. You know that I don't need more support to be a fighter. Or Chris would say, I don't need more support to shut her down. Take a look at what I'm saying and then give me some advice and support about what I can do different. Terry, could you speak directly to the person who's listening or watching right now? And if they take just one

action based on everything that you have taught us today, what do you think the most important thing to do is? Listen, first figure out if you tend to be one up or one down. If you're one down, have some courage with love, not harshness. Lean in and deal. If that doesn't work, get some help. If you're one up, get off your Goddamn high horse. Show some vulnerability. I don't care if you're right. Right is not going to save your marriage. Ask your partner, "What do you need?" uh come off of your selfishness and lead in

a new way. If you're small, get big. If you're big, get small. Try something new on your side and see if that changes things. >> I love the If you're small, get big. If you're big, get small. I mean, if you're Small, get big. And if you're big, get small. >> If you went up, come down. If you're one down, come up. Democracy. Democracy. Democracy. >> Meaning it's we. >> We. >> It's not me above you. >> And it's not me. >> Or it's not me below you. >> No, >> it's me. So when you

say one up, you Mean you're the one who's acting big in the relationship and you feel above the person, right? And when you say one down, you're saying you're now small and scared and you feel below the person, >> right? >> Oh, so the one up is you're big and that's loud and angry or righteous or venting or any of that stuff and one down is you feel small and you might be fixing or you might be shutting down or you might be pulling like it's the >> find some courage. >> Find some courage. If

you're one up, yield. Open your heart. Surrender. Be vulnerable. If you're one down, lean in. Have courage. Stand up for health in the relationship. It's not even standing up for yourself. Stand up for the biosphere. A lot of women in particular think it's selfish of me to stand up for my needs. No, it's good for your biosphere. Stand up for the biosphere. Terry, I know this conversation is going to spread around the globe and that so many people are going to listen and feel their hearts and a new possibility open. >> I hope so. >>

And then they're going to hit share and send this to their partner and say, "Could you listen to this, please?" >> Good. I would love to have you speak directly to the person who is here because their Partner sent this to them. >> Great. Love that. >> What do you want them to know? >> This is what I want you to know, my friend. It is in your interest to learn how to do this. It's in your interest. We are born to be relational. If your partner is giving you this episode, it's because they want

you to open your heart. They want you to be a more relational human being. This is What we're born for as a species. This is what makes us healthy, not just mentally, but physically. We are born to do this work. It's been lost and we need to retrieve it for ourselves, for our families, for our children. If you don't want to do this for yourself and you don't want to do it for your partner, do it for your kids. They need you to open your heart and be in a functional relationship. And do it for

The planet. We are treating mother nature out of this dominance model. It's obsolete and is suicidal. Learn to do this differently. You'll live 10 years older. Your partner will be happier with you. Your sex life will improve. And your kids will talk to you. And you might actually do something to save the world. What the hell? Give it a shot. [laughter] >> Thank you for saying that because I Don't want somebody who receives this to experience it like, "Oh, they're trying to fix me. They're trying to change me." It's really an invitation. >> It's an

invitation. And I want to say I admire your heroism to even entertain the possibility. This is hard. I started off by saying this. This is not easy. But the rewards it will give you, your family, your children are almost inexpressable. It's hard work. Look, break the chain. >> Terry real. You're real good. [laughter] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing and thank you for being here and sharing all of this wisdom with us and giving us tools so we can practice these skills so that we might just heal ourselves and

in the process make our relationships better. >> You're wonderful to speak with. You're a wise woman and it was hard one. takes One to no one know. So, bless you for the work you're doing, too. >> And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this. Thank you for really letting what Terry was teaching us sink in. Thank you for sharing this with your partner, with the people that you care about. There is no doubt in my mind that if you take everything to heart and you use the

tools, especially those four questions, I can't wait to share this with my kids, With Chris. Oh my gosh, there's no doubt in my mind that your relationships are going to get so much better. And in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And if you apply all of the advice that you just heard, there is no doubt in my mind that your life will get better

and so will your relationships. All righty, I will see you in the very Next episode. I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you hit play. All righty. And I also want to say thank [music] you to you here on YouTube with me. Thanks for watching all the way to the end. Thank you for sharing this episode and the wisdom of Terry Real with your partner, with the people that you care about that deserve more love and better relationships in [music] their life. And I know you're thinking, "All right, Mal, what should I watch

Next?" Well, if you loved this, you are absolutely going to love this one next. And I will welcome you in the moment you hit play.