Mafia Underboss Sammy Gravano Breaks Silence After 20 Years

I still have passion for the Mafia and I think I'm part of the good the bed and certainly the ugly in my time the heydays there was bodies all over the place when you make a mistake I'm gonna be the last face you see it's not the guy who pulls the trigger you gotta worry about it's the guy who plans it for the biggest differences between you and got it I did so many things for this guy I Rigged the trials I threatened people I [ __ ] bribed people and he turns on me doesn't

history repeat itself what if Sammy takes me up what do you want me to do I'm a gangster how dare you call the shots on who shoots look at the whole [ __ ] picture you don't think these guys got balls you already tell this kid to go back I killed Don cake it's all great it's all about money what do you know about what happened with John F Kennedy this Is gonna sound [ __ ] crazy I think are you following any of the Epstein stuff there isn't even a word for this piece of

[ __ ] Teddy Atlas said you went up to him to want to train with the boxing Teddy Atlas is an [ __ ] take away guns from all the good people I will always have a gun if I die tomorrow this was my choice my life you still trust people it's in every book every move that shocked the whole world what I did no regrets [Music] so the last time Sammy the bull Gravano did an exclusive interview was with Diane Sawyer on primetime TV back on April 16 1997 Sammy is known as the hit

man's hit man he was the underboss - the leader of Gambino family John Gotti Sammy thanks for making attempt to do this interview it's my pleasure so Sam a lot has changed since 1997 we now have social media we now have smartphones we now everybody having a camera a lot to Change in America we have a Donald Trump as a president so America has changed world's changed as Sammy the bull Gravano changed to an extent I mean I didn't change much like people would think I'm more coming out into a legitimate business you're going into

Hollywood into a certain things that I'm doing my life now I've changed my life I still have passion for the Mafia from where it came from how it started I would exist it it's part of my heritage It's not just the gang to me I was in a gang when I was young but this isn't a gang this was part of my heritage started in Sicily in the 12th century it fled to the United States now when I said it fled it didn't come in because they like the United States they were running away from

Mose lenient fascism it made them come to the United States and they landed in the United States and everything that they were taught in Italy they brought them here so I have a Different feel for it that is some stuff that's ugly that we did and I think I'm part of the good the bed and certainly the ugly but I did this because of my belief in goes an Oscar I've changed my ways and I've moved on with my life and I'm going in a different direction even sitting here talking to you that's something that

you're not supposed to do mostly you're not supposed to talk about it when you flip or cooperate whatever you want to call it you're allowed to do Whatever you want because you already broke the golden rule by cooperating so but if you didn't flip then you're not allowed to do this because giving up our secrecy we're a secret society and a brother and if you give up the secrets there's no different than taking the stand or doing whatever you can't give up the secrets of girls and often even some of the things that John Gotti

did running as Boston people cheer about what he was Doing he did more damage that goes in Austria were being out there and putting it on Front Street then ten cooperating witnesses put together you believe that oh absolutely why do you believe that most of the real gangsters believe that and know that I've got 22 years in prisons I bunked into a lot of guys and I bunked into people and I said listen you were in a regular prison now you're in a witness unit tell me the truth What were they saying about me you

were with this guy in this guy in this guy this guy Bobby he was young the boss in Boston and he told me Sammy you want all the truth I am more crying and complaints about John than you the position he put you in he betrayed you when he betrayed you like that that was the same as a rat man that was government is trying to put us away that's their job your job as John Gotti is not to put me away and if that's the Role you're gonna take so you can get out and

I could take the weight that's a rat mo what happened between me and John so I did what I did and and now I'm going into a whole different thing that's all behind me I see what they do now I think they're pretty smart now they went away from violence they don't do that as much anymore when I was in my time in hay days in 70s and 80s those bodies all over my every different family but today they don't do that does It work without violence and structure though isn't a part of the leverage

to impose fear it could be but it doesn't have to be fear could be in a whole bunch of ways let's say you're a made guy you're a friend of ours a friend of ours is a big guy you're a friend of ours so you're not gonna abide by the rules but you're not to worry cuz I'm not gonna kill you but I could chase you I could get out to all five families he's no longer a Friend of ours don't treat him like that you're thrown out now that's a big hit so you lose

your power and nobody will respect you know but he will sandwich nobody will recognize you sometimes in certain cases it may even be better to be dead it's a good punishment but the effect of not killing when I was around every family had a squad of FBI agents who worked on them each family the squad consisted of a 20 some-odd agents working on your Family from what I hear now they're down to three they used all those extra agents to terrorists and 13 drug gangs stuff that warrants it so but I'm not killing they don't

have depression and then the RICO law and the laws are crippling so me you and another guy but all trust each other we going to murder now the way the law is set you get convicted on the murder there's life without parole every one of us have a get out of jail card free of course we Killed Joe Blow I get pinched for drugs later and I'm facing 20 or 25 years I'm 50 years old I don't want to do it it's like Oh brew government me you and the sort of guy we killed him

they don't trust each other no more because the sentences are so big in most cases that guy's flipped some guys don't want to go to jail some guys are screwed when they go to jail you know I've heard so many stories with guys black guys Hispanic guys who Stood up and got sentenced and we're doing that time with the people though they took his money while he was gone and they screwed his wife they did this they did that you're begging for this guy to cooperate he didn't cooperate and you do these things then so

he flips or you sold him out in some capacity and he flips like I did when John John told me to my face at the end of the time he said Sammy the tapes horrible they make you sound like a monster what are we Gonna do so I'm controlling all the lawyers you're gonna take the weight the lawyers are gonna bring it out in court that you're a monster you killed all these people took over the union's took over businesses which I never did during the trial the lawyers will say you hear John complaining on

the tapes poor John Gotti he lost control that is monster Sammy the ball Tim it's that John so I Will go free and you'll do the time I said are you sure that's what you want me to do that it was I I'm worried about the feds trying to put me away I've been paged all my life I've raised that I never faced my friend my co-defendant wanting to put me away that's what they're doing John is that what you really want to do it has to be done the streets needs me the boss you're

the sacrificial lamb I said okay you're sure that's the way it is I got in touch with The FBI I flipped and I was gone that's what I did my first bid of 5 years then I was out for a while five years and they went back in on a 20-year sentence and that sentence when I started that sense I did 17 years several months on that sadness the first six and a half years I get in the hole and I got sick in the home it took my teeth away nails that pre age my

skin most of my hair was lost and they were reports he's dying to cancer he's Dying of Hashimoto's disease here all these different things were coming out but I survived it and I'm back out and I'm making my life again look who I am I'm saying what you're talking it's interesting but going back what I'd want to do is pre even this I'm curious to know about the Sammy growing up like you grown up in a family in Brooklyn your mom your dad two sisters I think you're the youngest of three who was Sammy growing

up what was your personality Like even at 10 years old 12 years I'm not even talking 16 in high school with the incident of you and your principal you know you punching them in the face who will you at eight years old who will you at ten years old I think I was just like any other kid I was the lecture as a very slow learner with books not visual things or hearing things but with books stuff like that the number three looked like an eight so I Was always wrong so as soon as the

teacher said what number is that now if it look like an eight to me I would say three you're right not because I was right because I was wrong so many times so an eight I knew it was an eight it was three invites of course then I hung out with kids and I grew her kids I mean just like any other kid my father was a painter then he got lead poisoning and he couldn't paint there was just to be leading in the paint my Mother was a seamstress so she was so good at

it she worked in a factory in New York for Jewish contractor she used to make the dresses for the models that they were going to show the thing and sell it so the contractor told her Katie my name was Kay and they called Katie why don't you open up a small little Factory you're great at this so she talked to my father he couldn't paint no more so they opened up a small little Factory Together they knew all the Italian people and ladies from Italy was here they don't know how to sell and they all

went in there and sewed and they had a little dress factory and then we used to go in and help from time to time and I was at the youngest of three I was the youngest of five my brother died and one of my sisters died before I was even born and what was left was two sisters one was nine years older to me one was five Years older than me did that feeling of you not getting eight three you know I see this dyslexic did that create an array gin you're like I'm a little

bit different why am I being treated this way or not at all no no there was plenty of rage there was plenty absolutely since I got left back in the fourth grade okay I don't even know how old you're supposed to be in the fourth grade but I got left back in the fourth grade so now when I go forward they They're younger than me and the teacher would say a certain word a big word there's somebody to spell it I was in the back of the class all the time and another kid to spell

another word they would get to me and saying okay gravano spell cat the whole class would giggle I was so ashamed in rage I felt after school I beat the [ __ ] out of em about I was actually older and bigger than them and I was a strong kid I beat the [ __ ] out although there was no more Lesson when I hit the seventh grade I got left back again and at that point I said schools not for me just not for me and I hardly went nice to play hooky all the

time and one day that's how a thing started within the teacher I got caught by truant officers who went around and court kids playing ok and I was a little drunk it brought me up to the principal I was sitting in the principal's office and he was talking the principal and he was saying this is what they are the Upbringing isn't there he used the word [ __ ] it's a slur eraser slow against what are you people and I didn't bother me too much but when he was saying what kind of people these people

are this is a result these kind of kids so I one point I got up and say this has nothing to do with my mother and father they're hard-working people this has to do with me he said something about my mother father again I cracked in the shadow I broke his jaw and I was Thrown out of school months later in front of the Board of Education I was transferred to another school McKinley Junior High School was in a different neighborhood mostly Irish polarized the Irish in the Italian didn't get along at all I wasn't

a bad-looking kid I got along with the girls but not the boys every day I was in a fight in trouble finally I get thrown out of that school - I did find a teacher in that school Really tried to help me and missed him indirectly I respected this guy he knew I wasn't stupid he just knew I had a learning problem matter of fact he would even tell me if you get frustrated you want to walk out of the class walk out and I got to respect this guy a lot and I actually wanted

to make him look good so I was trying to hang in but I flunked that school and I was sent to 600 school and then his old misfits I was in that school I think it was the first week There was a guy sitting in front of me was dressed and looked like a robe and I said something funny the class was laughing and he tapped this book his Bible on my head on my forehead you shouldn't do this you're acting you're the devil after about the third or fourth time he hit me on that

and we was talking I hit and knocked his ass out I was thrown out again of six hundred school the Board of Education called me I was under 16 they Said he's out suspended on a sixteen birthday you can come and sign him out we never want him back in regular school and if you don't we're gonna put him in reform school so the next step was it's like kids jail so my mother father kept me out when I was 16 they went there and signed me out so I felt rage but what I felt

I felt and I saw the pain in their face like they want their son to be successful or do something and it broke the heart they never hit me my mother Had me brooms and mops and whatever but my father never had me family of love they loved you they they love they they're doing I was the only boys a little boy my sisters were older they would take me though they almost acted like a mother 105 years older ones nine years old they're much older than me then I found the gang the rampers Street

gang just like any other gang I guess tough kids we got together and fought and stalled and did things to us it was The right thing we were doing the right thing we're even helping our families who were broke at this point you're what 17 years old no I mean I'm in a gang I'm 14 or 14 unit again 14 15 you got it so typically when somebody joins a gang there's something missing in the house not a father figure or something like that right but you have a love your mom that you your dad

didn't it you typically steer the way around will forgive mom Cause it's mom what could have been done to prevent Sammy Gravano from becoming underboss Sammy the bull Gravano could the system or anything been done to prevent it and squashed it right there and Sammy goes a different direction with his life okay I don't think so first of all my neighborhood was entrenched to see the movies Goodfellas and almost it was entrenched with Street mafia people now we weren't in the Mafia at that age we're together where is the Campus [ __ ] them and

everybody else we don't want to have nothing to do with them but it's entrenched after a while there they're my idols well especially at 17 and they're you look up to these people if you didn't look up to them or you went overboard in some way you got killed in those days hmm there was bodies all over the place back then so whether you like the guy who didn't like the guy you knew your place to get away from them you know I'll give you an Example one time my father tells me in the dress

factory he's gonna ship clothes tomorrow he wants me to come in and help him clip some threads put plastic over the dresses that they're gonna ship tomorrow I'm in the back doing that I see these two big guys come in and they're cursing at my father about the Union they Union guys and he's non-union and that curse their abuse and [ __ ] at my father doesn't even look like it's phrasing it like nothing's Happening they walk out and I said who are they Sicilian people don't worry about it that's what I mean they they

said they're gonna come back tomorrow and if you don't straighten this out you don't have money they're gonna beat you up they're gonna do that said break your legs he says don't worry about it my googa ba de su Vida heel till I talk to him they'll take care of this they got big mouths don't worry about it Don't do nothing so I went back to the gang that night and told my friends this guy Jerry pepper was that head about the leader of it again and I told him so I said I'm gonna take

a couple of guys we go in with me in the factory when they come back if they raise their hands we're gonna break every bone in their body so Jerry opens up it's Jackie it's the same forget about Frank look he's got a gun he says if they raise their hands to their father killed him give us A call we'll come and get rid of the bodies and the gun and everything don't worry about it now I never killed anybody never even thought of killing somebody I was physical with my hands I took the gun

and I put it under my belt if they raised their hands to my father I'm gonna kill them so I go there the next day they come in I'm ready they turn around they tell my father why didn't you tell us that so V do is Yogamaya why don't you tell us Jerry and they're talking sweetly if you have any problems with anybody give us a call they giving them their card give us a call but take care of you could stain on you you don't worry about it do they leave so I come out

I said that what the hell was that they talking about survival now I knew the guy cuz he was my father's good mother he was smaller than my father and he was this big it's then a good wind could knock him on his Ass what the hell it is big 6-2 6-3 guys what are they worried about him I didn't understand the money so my father says I told you we honest people we work if we have trouble we go to people like servidio and they take care of these problems don't be excited so I

said well that wouldn't happen I would have took care of this how would you take care of these people yeah but not my shirt and I show them the gun my father it's the first time I thought he was gonna hit me He flipped out give me that gun we don't do that I told you we legitimate people that's the kind of people he was Sammy are you alpha or is your dad alpha like you know just because it's a dad doesn't mean one is a bigger alpha than the other one did you have more

of an alpha spirit than him much more than alpha you're much more than him so let me ask you how much of you becoming who you became has to do with your environment and how much of it has to do with your DNA and your wiring and the way you're born environment experiences teacher eight three dyslexic bullying punching a principal versus your DNA your wiring I believe it's the neighborhood the environment is is one thing I don't think it's my DNA if there was help in schools I could have graduated I I got out of

the 8th grade that was my last day in school I never even went to high school I ran unions and businesses all over New York they shocked the whole world what I did it's in every book every move I've met with lawyers and don't want lawyers when I look at that I said my god what are you what are you have the lexicon you do not what you went to school you pass some tests he's dumber than wood I think I'm smarter than them so I don't think I can't learn I sit down and have

done businesses all day long I just got out of prison not even two years September be two years well I'm sitting Down going forward in Hollywood I'm working on a podcast a lot of content about my life it's not an easy thing to get to that point I'm working on a book possible scripted show down the road and I sit down with businessmen all the time I sit down with guys producers and heavyweights in Hollywood and they say a couple of them told me Sammy you're talking talk like a gangster you're rough talk and you

curse a little big you talk rough but you're super [ __ ] [ __ ] you coming up you just cut into this industry and you're making moves and talking with people like you've been here a hundred years so I told when your kids are born make sure that electric and they will they'll be good too but I could I have enough brains I related to when I watch the news and I all the time these kids who go around shooting people lose answers a million questions just like yours why how come we're gonna gun

control What's guns got to do with it now I'm putting my criminal hat on God do gun control take away guns from all the good people I will always have a gun every criminal will always have a gun it doesn't come from different states it could come from different countries and if you were probably when you were younger you heard the thing as if gun they can make a gun we made silences so that's not going to help nobody what its gonna do is a girl is home with her kids Some guy is stalking a

what's a rape huh but he's always questioning if I keep that doorman to protect our kids in herself she might have a gun and blow my head off but take away all that protection she's going to exploit it what about how many times the people with legitimate guns save so many people or stop somebody who's completely out my this is a problem of people growing up the first problem at home we all know our kids our own kids you know if the Kids a little weird or his little upset and he's not thinking right you

know it but nobody will ever call the cops or anybody when they're kids they feel like they're giving their kids up it's a normal reaction they he's gonna be great you wait and see he'll he'll change he gets worse so now he goes to school the teachers say but there's so many laws and rules if the teacher says I'm gonna send Jimmy to psych the family will soon he'll chill yo get fired so you're tying The hands of teachers so this kid just goes and goes and goes by the time he goes out and shoots

don't forbid 14 people there's always a line of people saying yeah when you look back I knew this kid would be the worst but nobody ever said that or did nothing that's environment that's not de LexA thats not a slow learner because the school system should never if I wouldn't have been called Alexa go if they would have known how to treat it I don't know what I would have been I might have been adopted I might have been a lawyer I really don't know oh so you do believe you could have gone a different

direction of somebody you got to hold you early absolutely okay so this is social ooh got it so you did say there was environment but now you're saying if somebody worked with you tutored you developed you maybe you would have gone a different direction absolutely I'm saying the same thing now About these kids who shoe people if you were to grab those people years ago right and said there's a problem with this kid that's true to him let's send them to special places let's take care of him maybe that kid when he's 16 18 21

whatever the hell he is he won't be shooting all these people the kid is bent it's not the gun now if you took all the guns away and one of these kids run into a disco and he cuts loose with a bomb stead of shooting 14 People 60 people are dead are you happy he don't have forgotten what are you gonna say then we shouldn't have bonds of course we're shooting that box but it's the kid way never going to the problem and they always ask this stupid question what could we do how could we

stop it you can't the guy is nuts even gang street gangs the Mafia they don't run around shooting innocent people we shoot each other when we break rules we don't run around shooting Innocent people people will tell you live in tough neighborhoods Italian neighborhoods four years ago the Mafia was actually a safe place for them they didn't allow a rapist or a child molester I give an example I'm in front of my place on a hangout and there's this beautiful woman she had a baby now she's back in shape she's drop-dead gorgeous and she's walking

she walks right past where we stayed we're sitting outside with beach chairs talking it's Not like the movies people hooting in hell it may be on a construction crew but we don't do that I told my people you do that this is our people this is our neighborhood don't do that why he's doing something no I said we know we're gonna do that so you say to yourself she knows she's drop-dead gorgeous why is she walking right past us on our side mystery you know the answer she feel safer absolutely she don't want to walk

on the other side because people will Not who now she's lovely raped or robbed or something and when I say the other side could be around the blood she's comfortable here she knows she's not gonna get hurt her husband allows her you go on eat eat they go right past that stay by because we wouldn't allow nothing to happen to us there's a different vibe I mean even though they're you know like people say he's a killer he was involved in 19 murders I was involved in three Mafia Wars I was Involved in two different

families you could say whatever you want to say but the reality is like what do we do to stop this change the environment change the kid who sick coming up change the kid who's the Lex Luthor to help these intervene then years ago today there was when I was a kid growing up there was mental institutions then they took them away there's no felicitations eyelid Trump saying we better start building them again you bet Your sweet answers you should stop building them again put people in there not to do time but to rehabilitate them to

help them look what we have in cities we have zones we're safer for people who commit crimes there's so many stupid laws that it's pathetic it's tying the hands of everybody and it's deteriorating the country so you're forced Second Amendment oh absolutely that would be an understatement and this is coming from a former underboss who For the criminal if they banned guns they would have an edge and you're saying to keep the guns is gonna keep the citizens safer absolutely listen how many shootings are there 10 20 30 there's 300 and some million people in

this country yeah the numbers just don't jive and and they're how many guns are out there they say towards a million guns so you had 30 shootings I mean that's nothing how many car accidents did you have how many drunken drivers Killed people how many did we take cars away we're try and control the person who's drinking and driving we have to control the people who are gonna have guns listen I'm for the Second Amendment but I do think on the other hand looking at it the other way I used to go hunt I would

shoot a rifle that was a bolt-action I missed the deer I bolted again boom makes the death he got away they have Guns down a shooter 100 bullets would have semi-automatic like a machine gun so in 10 seconds he could unload 200 bullets do you need 200 bullets to kill a deer no so they could limit some of that power dose and I was in the military so those are military guns a 30 caliber the thing you're not care for your body off when you get hit what do you need a 30 caliber for why

do they need a 30 count you need a gun to protect your house 38 a handgun a Shotgun a gun that it with a boat that only sheets one at a time is fine you can protect your family she could protect herself so I agree with that there's too much power and when you get a nut and you give him that much power then you're waiting for something major tap so you leave sixteen seventeen years old and you go into military you become a corporal in the US Army I think you served two years honorable

discharge you go to Fort Jackson South Carolina you're working as a I think as a cook was your MOS then you get out how did you get introduced to Columbo and then how did you go from there to Gambino I was introduced by as soon as I got out of the Army at 21 I wasn't cook I was communications I worked in the kitchen and had a problem in the kitchen one time and it involved racism there was a black guy serving and I was serving next to him on the line and a Couple of

hillbillies came by I know I knew about racism but not like this I saw it in South Carolina it was a whole different level I never saw it like this so when he went to him the black guy right in front of me he's calling him boy this boy that go get that boy give me more boy and I'm listening black guy was a pretty strong looking guy he didn't seem to faze him not didn't bother him not then the guy came to me he started with me because They look at I came from New

York hey boy fill my tray so I got this long metal spoon I'm fooling the compartment with the beans or whatever it was and it's starting to drip over so I stopped he looks at me and he says he throws everything on the counter and he said boy will not tell you what pathan me you whoop it on me and he's got an empty trade he puts it back out won't put on me huh and I whack him with the spoon mad and he was flying him back but I Wasn't all that smart because the

next two guys were his friends and his friend hits me with a tray and they go flying backwards a little bit and the black guy from the Bronx we were friendly he jumps over the thing and he starts throwing punches I get back over the whole places in Africa we're fighting like crazy so we're sitting the MP scum was sitting on the floor meaning the black guy and a sergeant comes e78 like that huh he's in charge of the MPs And he's a big black guy and he looks at me and he said you liked

helping black people boy he thinks that I jumped in to help em but it was the other way around but I'm not a jerk I was going to take advantage of it I said well that's what you dope I'm from New York I don't believe in his [ __ ] and he winks at us I know I'm not in trouble and I never on line again I'm in the back with him peeling potatoes when we come on so that's what I was but I in the Army I Was in communications so when I get out

I get out of 21 I'm right back in the rapids not even one day goes by I go to the family and they go right to the Ramblas two years I'm back and then at the age of 23 a friend of mine Tommy spero says his uncle shorty Spiro his name was Tommy as well wants to see me and then he's a heavyweight guy he's in the Colombo family he's very well known a heavyweight he was in the original Gallo War so I meet with him and he says listen I have a lot of good

things about you I know a lot of things about you you're gonna get killed he said you're too damn tough you don't want to listen you can't run around you're not hooked up you got to hook up with people I would like you to be with me I will never lie to you I will never backstab whatever I asked you to do I already did it was music to my ear he says in my crew you're going to be part Of my family I joined up I went with him I started having trouble with Carmine

Persico not trouble like he was he was using me to do things give this guy a beating do this do that and I was doing all those things now his brother Ralph Spiro wanted to put his son in so he has an argument was shorty why you keep bringing Sammy to Julian and he said listen bro I don't bring him there Junior's asking fam To come down when they tells me and I bring him down so a lot of jealousy I'll behind my back I didn't know that was happening and at one point there was

a guy with us Ralphie Rhonda he went on a stick-up with another crew and he gets into a gun battle with three or four detectives and he gets hit 11 times and dies I mean ships at bay you know bill dark dingy [ __ ] bar talking to the old man Johnny Rizzo the main guy a couple Of other people Louie Milito Michael mwah - alley boy and a few other people worth talking and this beautiful looking blonde comes in short skirt I heels big blue in here and then those days they used to tease

it it's and she comes in with a guy well bull guy and they should have got the other end of the bar very dark trying he could only see them be seen them but you can't recognize who they are the old man Rizzo tells me he says Semantics this girl uh was trying to make a play for you she's eyeballing I think he's breaking my chops because we always break each other's jobs or things so I said come on John she sit with a guy we're gonna talk we're gonna light up in a fight come

on stop can we keep talking Louie Molino tells me Sammy I don't think he's breaking the shot she's looking at you every two seconds stupid you don't see it I can't hardly see it Charlie you know she's she's looking this way how do you know she's looking at me she's looking at you oh so the guy gets up and goes to the bathroom and she gets up and starts walking towards us Rizzo hits me in the in the back I told you go over and see what she wants so I walk over and who is

it I'm about as close as I am to you it's Ralphie wrong his wife he's dead we can have a look at it tonight she didn't Have that hair like that she never looked like that to me and I said what are you doing guys husband just died who's this guy she said Sammy life goes on life goes on he's not even [ __ ] cold yet you can't wait a while he says I see the way you used to look at me maybe I could get rid of maybe me what get the [ __

] away I went into a rage but uh she got terrified she left the guy left like I came out with to him he said What's the matter get hot and get out while you can go so he did the next day she went to Ralph and told Ralph so Ralph takes this as a thing this is great he's gonna undermine me he don't know there's all them people did he's gonna make up a story that I try to make her she won't go with me and I'm abusing her he calls my wife it tells

my wife jr. Carmine Persico he's gonna kill your [ __ ] husband he tried to make roughly wrong his wife He's dead and he hangs up on my wife my life really is not a typical gangsters wife I come home she's hysterical crying what did you do we're talking about what I did what did i do what are you crying about and she says you tried to make Ralphie's wife what are you crazy who told you that Ralph called me and told me everything he said so I said then listen to me baby it's not

crying this life is so technical make sure that every word you tell me is exactly right Tell it to me again if there's anything wrong with true she tells me the same story she can't even stop crying I go inside and go in the drawer I get a gun I get my car and I go to Ralph and shelves I go to the door and we were like good photos we all live together so and his wife comes to the door hey Sammy what's up I said I had taken out the gun I had it

by night at the back by the ass as soon as he kept her dogs in the kill right in front of and then I was so hot She says did something go wrong ruff took off in hours two ago is ever prom no there's no problem just tell him I was here so when I went to turn to walk she saw the gun mmm and she told Shorty and Ralph and he came to the house with a gun to kill Ralph so there's I'm gonna supposed to get a tremendous beating then it set me up

the old man Rizzo comes to me again found out about it and said don't go to This meeting I said how could I not go these are my people John this is none of your business you're in you what the Gambino's it's none of your business that's what you're gonna be told you can't do none for night oh you got a do so what do you want me to run away I didn't do that so he stays with me we go to see shorty shorty gets together and says listen John this is none of your

business but John tells them listen it's none of My business you're right but I want to tell you what I saw and he tells him exactly what happened he said Louis Milito was in the car you want him to come in he was there I only boys with the Genovese people he was there my cues what these people he was there you want to talk to all of them that's not what happened Shirley looks at me and says I know this [ __ ] kid that do that wouldn't do that and he gives me a

hug Atticus he says go home And don't come out so I could let you know now unbeknownst to me the head of the Colombo's come I was in jail alley boy particles seen yet what's the coins here he was acting boss and this went to Johnny Rizzo's captain was a guy named tidal reloj right up to Carlo Gambino and bosses made a decision on what to do the next day I would get entitles caught I knew his son but I never knew him I knew he was a heavyweight guy he wasn't he was a captain

a heavyweight I get in His car and we go down to Carroll Street downtown Brooklyn they talk a little bit alley boy Persico calls man inside he said we know the whole thing I should give you permission to kill Ralph what he did he mentioned my brother's name if you would have got killed your wife would have thought my brother did it Oh ordered it he deserves to get killed for that but what he did to you he deserves to get killed but I can't tell you to kill him because he showed his Brother I

can't do it so we're gonna reach a conclusion here on what's gonna happen we're definitely not gonna kill you didn't do nothing and you acting like a [ __ ] man were you gonna shoot him when he got to the door absolutely that's why I had to go down I was definitely the shooter they already knew I was a shooter all right we can't keep you in this family no more because if we keep this together it's going to explode the Gambino's talk for You we're gonna release you to the Gambino family with no restrictions

we're always gonna be your friend you got to give me one promise that you won't hurt Rob's pillow so if that's what the decision is okay I turned around and get back in the car with Tonto we're going back and he says from here on in you with us you wit me directly you embarrass me us do anything without my permission you'll die in this bed right away no Questions asked we went out of Linfield Isis all right I want you in my [ __ ] club everyday sit with me I'm gonna know every time

you get a pimple every time you get laid no matter what the [ __ ] you do in life I'm gonna know I'm gonna get to know you better than you know yourself my life starts in the Gambino family and it's a whole nother story and I can't get into too much I think I'm getting Into too much already people from the book podcast are gonna go apeshit on me I guess the part is though so now you get in and at what point do you get introduced to Gotti where you and Gatti's relationship starts

developing I don't mean God he God he does something he goes to jail for a little while a couple of years that guy they shot in a bar he didn't even shoot him they that's what was in the movie but that's not true Let me ask you just a question before you go that I've heard two stories that gaudí and jr. never killed anybody from your experiences did you ever hear about them killing anybody themselves not putting the head and somebody else doing the work them doing it themselves I don't think so I don't remember

if he pulled the trigger if he didn't pull the trigger but I'll tell you right now I wouldn't Bank on him not being able to shoot you you wouldn't Bank on him not Being able to shoot a [ __ ] hot mean it like that I don't know about John Jr but the father would kill you in a minute I didn't pull the trigger all the time I was basically the guy who headed and playing the hit and I let me tell you really quick how that happened Todd oh really got to know me and

he said Sammy why are you always the front guy in when you go steal would you go by Ali boy you go in you're the first guy stick him Up doing this do that why are you always the first guy in so I said I don't know that's just the way we do it and Ali boy monkeys Michael mother he's got my back he's a tough guy so he says listen I know he's a tough guy but Ali boys not that smart would you agree with that yeah at least a little he that means would

sometimes okay so you are smart he said you know what happens you go in he's taking you back something happens he has to rearrange Everything and make things happen so you just get away and he ain't got the brains don't you think it should be the other way around he goes in first you have his back if something happens you can react like this he can't and if he does react like that it's always gonna be something crazy and I love violently boy I'm not knocking him he's telling me and I love him - it's

my Gabbana my he's Godfather my daughter no he's reactionary he just reacts you don't Think when he reacts so I said I never looked at it that way he said later on in life when you go do a hit it's not the guy who pulls the trigger you got to worry about it's the guy who plans it the guy who plans that that guy can't get away number one and number two that you all get away you're a planner go home and look in the [ __ ] mirror stop running in first think use your

head and I thought about it and he was right I thought he was 100% right I'm more or Less did the planning of it but if you think that I would hesitate I'm pulling the trigger because I'm the planner and not the actual shooter and it was said anybody could shoot a gun you're pulling the trigger interesting so how many of the 19 did you pull the trigger on I'm not even gonna get into that because it doesn't matter and this by now I'm gonna have problems with all kinds of victims saying all kinds of

things so I'm not gonna get into them so In your world calling it means a hit on you meaning you that counts as one of your 1919 doesn't mean that you any any any role you take you know what I'm asking you yes yes but any role you take in that murder you're part of it listen there's a couple of guys sitting here okay okay and we're gonna hit this guy this one guy and you're in I this guy's in on it this guy here over here he's gonna pull the trigger and shoot him you're

gonna do this you're gonna Drive a car a crash car I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do that and you're sitting in this room right here you're doing what you're supposed to be doing the attentions got to be around you so we could kill it now guy comes he gets up from there and walks over to got a glass of water or something but instead of getting the class order he shoots him in that he blows his brains out you're sitting right here you don't think this guy's got balls choices you know to me No

you take away anything from in these part of the head law enforcement don't give a [ __ ] what what you did your part of that it that's life without parole you're a head guy yeah but it's your function what are you gonna be now today you might be sitting in tomorrow this guy might be sitting there and you're doing that it don't man who's pulling the trigger it's a matter of how does it happen how does it work when you're not just sloppy in the middle of the streets And you're it where it's perfectly

done and you get away with it so or getting away with it 19 times if you want to but out of the 19 it's not necessarily that you pull the trigger no no no no no I don't I don't even think it's important who pulls the trigger you don't think so no everybody in that room who's on this hit is capable of pulling that trigger you I don't want you to be the shooter maybe I want this guy pulled a chain called the Shots on who shoots how is that decision and how I planned ahead

but what how do you choose one person over another person is the case and how the relationship is an example with a guy named 8db who got killed sure that Oh quick the example cuz I don't explain the whole thing but he's going to come in to a meeting so we're gonna sit at the table just like me and you see actually a little close so he's gonna get killed now what I do Is I told the old man Joe Perez with me Joe get the vehicle he walks over there opens up the cabinet takes

a quick peek thinks out the gun with the sounds comes up behind you and it I get splattered do you think I'm less than Joe I couldn't do this you think this is a less position or less a guy that bullet could hit me too I'm sitting it but what makes it work I don't want to torture the guy I don't want to wrestle with the guy I don't Even want you to suffer this is gonna sound [ __ ] crazy I think but you're gonna die you never even knew what the [ __ ]

hit you baby died and had no reaction whatsoever it's like getting a massive explosion in your body or your heart stops immediately and you just killed over that's what it is so what I do it it's one that's clean and I'm immediately gonna pick him up and put him in a body bag we're gonna get rid of him so there's Not stuff all over the place it's it's a whole thing so I'm a professional okay people would say on the street before just before we got pinched practically this [ __ ] similar Bulls got a

contract on you you're dead you can't get away from this guy why because I had blinders on like this the way I'm looking at you now I don't look at nothing I don't care about the people who are in this room if there was people I don't care about my family my friends My uncle my hand money nothing just you it's me in you and I'm gonna pick one you're gonna die and it's cold and calculated and not that cold in calculate could you come in here with your wife well you can't you're not gonna

get it that would be you it will get him another time but I'm I'm on you like glue when you making mistakes I'm gonna be the last face you see I'm all over you why did I get picked 19 times by bosses Colombo people Actually first then Paul Castellano then John Gotti why am I being picked why am I in 3 Mafia Wars why are you I'm [ __ ] good at it I'm matado said I'm a thinker I'm a planner I'm not a thug I'll give you another thing one time Paul cast land on

his house is sitting there and he's talking to us like he always did all the heavyweights are at the table all of them John Gotti Roy DeMeo me everybody we're all sitting there and he says you Know in our life there's two kinds of guys there's gangsters or thugs and there's racketeers who more like business guys it's very very rare will you find someone who is both it's almost impossible when you look around you're either that thug or a racketeer he says we have one in our family we should be fortunate you could have heard

a pin drop everybody's had his time looking at him and he said that guy and he was is that Sammy the bull he's a thug and a Racketeer my [ __ ] chest came out four inches my head must have blew up two or three inches I couldn't believe that I'm being pulled out like that and when we're leaving I'm hitting guys on the back you [ __ ] thug your honor your thug I'm both and I'm breaking chops I didn't even realize what what it was and I thought this is how my brain works

how did I become a gangster and a racketeer how is that possible it's impossible for so many people how did I become that got The lexer how the [ __ ] did I become both stone-cold killer you could call me and a [ __ ] great business guy who could run unions I become both now it's my upbringing what I learned from my father from my mother from my family I absorbed that and it never left me how legitimate how honest they were how they never lied over their eye that never left me mr. bend

rakia I'm still mentioning his name [ __ ] 50 years ago those things Never left me when I was in a gang we didn't kill people like they do it we just fought fights when I go into the Colombo family beat up that guy Rob dad take hijacked that killed this guy do this do that and now I go into the Gambino family I'm sitting with Otto and I'm learning about business unions all kinds of things and I always played around what construction and I was in businesses they didn't work or fuel them had a

fruit and vegetable store didn't Work but every time my business didn't work I don't even never thought I failed in business I just looked at the business and said what did I do wrong that other people could have businesses and succeed what did I do wrong to not succeed so even when I failed I want I say no why I felt and it would help me down the road I knew that that's what made me both all of those things that's the highest level of compliment somebody Like him can give you to be I think

in front of 20 different guys or captains and everything I mean I that's his body's all right and I wasn't the captain I was an acting cap now how's your relationship at that time how are you and God he doing together coming up we're doing fine I don't really know God I know of him I think I was made 1976 I think he was made in 77 so he was made after me God he was made after you yes Interesting yeah so they kept it open for how long the baby oh it's open four years

is nothing really closed got it so why did I why did he close in the first place for 19 years or 18 years who was born and I was from 1955 or something like that who are 1957 to 1975 they closed it because some people were charging money to get me well some people were putting their sons in there who didn't really belong I guess they got so frustrated with it they closed it And it didn't open them so so you're in 76 he's in 77 and then how does that relationship get started Frankie to

Chico I was very close with all my all my life every time he would he was a full-blown captain I was made and I was in that title made me his acting captain whom almost immediately a year later I would always patronize places that he would open left our club a crap game it is gambling so I would always go and patronize so I was There and his father Frank ichigo's father's name was Busey was a made guy he was under title so was I now so I was standing at the bar with Busey Tyler

Frankie the Chico's father and the door open and John Gotti and a few guys walked in his little entourage so he says do you know this kid John Gotti I said no I heard of him matter of fact he helped the friend of mine who was in jail and he did it in a movie he had a problem with black people And they were gonna hurt him he heard that the kid was friendly with me he intervened and straighten the whole thing out so I was thumb buzzy he did something like that I all right

he says yeah there's a lot of good things with him he's gonna be like us eventually but I know he's not a friend but he's gonna be and when I say friend I mean the main back what I'm talking to him then he came over to BOSU balls hey Rosie how you don't see how you Sammy Sammy yeah Yeah I met him and he says oh say hey a lot of great things and told me about my friend that he helped I said I heard about that I appreciate it I said give John the drink

I said I hear a lot of good things about you topo that's when we met a little while later he went in the back where there was a crap game John was a degenerate gambler so he went in the back and I stood at the bar with Busey that's when I met him in 1977 I didn't grow up with John and he come From that neighborhood they have me that we don't we have a long relationship we don't I'm I'm on a whole other and I'm Bensonhurst Brooklyn Bayridge Bensonhurst you know I'm in that area

he's in Queens almost towards Long Island it's not my neighborhood but I did hear about it I knew he was in the family but I didn't know I knew he wasn't made you know then he went to the can for a while Was he overly ambitious on why he eventually became the boss or was it something where everybody around said no this is this is the guy that's got to be the boss eventually after you know taking out Paul Castellano who read my book coming out or do it listen to the podcast it's too long

her story give me the shorter version of it I don't you give me give me a glimpse of it I change they say it again was John Gotti was he overly ambitious where like You know Frank Cullotta tells me when he first met Tony Spilotro he knew eventually palaca want her to be a boss like he said since he was a kid it was an inspiration to him was God he saw ambitious where he wanted to be a boss eventually it was a something where people voted and said he has what it takes to be

a boss oh no no no he just he wasn't even have what it takes to be a boss we made him a boss but Paul [ __ ] up he made a lot a lot of Mistakes I thought the world of him in the beginning he lost my love through a series of events and he lost the respect that Frankie had for Paul had made a ton of mistakes prior and there was rumbling grumbling and growling by us the troops whatever a lot of things he changed from what he wasn't in the beginning he got

more greedy she had so much [ __ ] money it was how could you be dad how could you be greed it's got so much [ __ ] money it's incredible he just May want one band movie after the other he was [ __ ] around with his maid and this is not something we do you know we go out as men we swirl around with a bunch of dogs needles I got to test him on popping out of our [ __ ] shirts but me and Frankie are in his house talking with him and

he's talking about Gloria has made was questioned by the FBI on the street she's got a Colombian accident he's so good-looking that agent so Paul's upset about jerk-off overhead Turns around and I go like this I said Paul do you want me to take care of his problem he looks at me and he says what and now I get a swift kick him to my leg Frankie kicked me what the [ __ ] Frankie kicked before what am I doing wrong then he says say that again and isn't the veins in his neck and I

dealt with him I got his veins out of his neck a few times but those veins are sticking out of his neck and he said what the [ __ ] did you say Paul maybe I think I lost my mind right now I said I don't know what I said I said if you need me am I saying something wrong oh my god if that goes away that's all we walk out of the house Frankie gets on one digriz because we know where the cameras are we know he can't see it so that's where hugging

he's hugging me says you are so [ __ ] nuts I said what the [ __ ] if you're talking about what's about it he said he loves this [ __ ] broad it'll Kill me and you fog the fifth Cadillac in the garage is big [ __ ] garage is glorious and Gloria dictates to his wife now no Sammy did you see what we actually got you didn't do nothing you did a normal thing but she did you see the reaction he was fuming when you did that he's still in that toast wife now

he might have been fuming at me but I lost a lot of respect for him because I told Frankie it's kind of kazillion dollars you can get the most beautiful Girl on the planet buy her a [ __ ] house by her Cadillac make all the payments go there every once in a while do your little [ __ ] thing go what are you this she's [ __ ] two feet well she's bigger than two feet but two feet fat and ugly besides what the [ __ ] and you disclose your wife and kids and

everybody like that in the house who knew the story behind it with this well they know obviously other people know I Didn't know it I'll give you an example of Gaza Nostra that's crazy tato who's my mentor who talks to me and teaches me about Cosa Nostra the different way than the Colombo's he says one day I'm in the restaurant and it's a neighborhood restaurant and he says I'm sitting with my GU Mata Agumon is his girlfriend you got your wife and your Grenada you know girlfriend your treatment almost like a wife you see it

in movies All the time he says and the door opens up and Carlo Gambino a45 guys walk in they go to the other side and they sit at a table back then you don't even recognize that you don't even send a drink you don't do nothing you just look at them you may have took your head like you just did tilt your head a little bit org look eye to eye that's how saying a lot of each other we don't this this is secret society and a Brother forget Gotti this was back then it's a

secret society he may look back and give you a little head shake he's acknowledged you now there's a guy sitting there there's five of them one guy gets up and he walks over the title a title how you doing there's an empty chair right next call he says go go sit in the chair over there an empty chair for a minute what's your girl's name Rosie hey Rosie My name is my bababa Beth how you doing he gets in into a [ __ ] conversation to keep her occupied he goes over he sits well call

Carlo Gambino tells him according to Todd oh how you doing Todd oh oh good good Karl how will you do I'm doing pretty good that woman over there - good morning yeah what's her name Rosa she's a beautiful girl she really is a beautiful girl they say you'll come to this restaurant all the time I yeah You come here with your wife wants to a lot - yes what do you think these people think when they see you now what you wanna don't think night they never gonna say none no no of course they're not

gonna say nothing they're afraid of you they're not gonna say nothing I don't mean to you or to me what do you think they say to each other what do you think they say when your wife comes in thought I was bluffing it's so much prettier than his wife look at the difference in The bonney's how gorgeous that one is you don't think they're gonna talk like that they're human beings they are saying if I agree with you when I look at it that way it's pretty obvious somebody asked you a question taro do you

love your wife of course of course boy I don't love my wife let me ask you something taro do you love me of course of course I love you I hope you don't love me like you love your wife okay go sit with your go mom now Maybe a lot of people here this won't even understand what the [ __ ] this is this is causing Austria to the core this is true Cosa Nostra how long do you think I felt Nolan Paul's doing this with the maid it might be funny to people his maid

in the house in front of his wife and kids and things well I'm out of course he's not hugging or kissing uh leaving that thing right in the house so when I look at it when you get made and you're a made guy We're brothers your wife is my sister-in-law your kids are my nieces and nephews I'm in the bye see you your daughter go for bit and she's acting a little stupid for a girl come over here don't give her no more drinks go home get the hell out of it the guy looks you

get out of here go you're being you're not behaving nice and before this one though we do that we care about your wife and your kids he is the father of the family so he's my Father he made me she will take my sons you run little children come over when I would go with my kid put him on the thing sit down give him milk and cookies she literally it was like my grandmother she was a lot older than me but she was my mother according to girls in Austria how the [ __ ]

could you do it's just funny when you don't know but picture now your father your father not pulll doing this To your mother how would you feel that's the way I'm supposed to feel this is my father and mother dad what the [ __ ] are you doing bro I like to [ __ ] just like you but in the house like this well mommy looks like a [ __ ] wig and other people know about it too she looks like a fool to the world that we do is that what you think uh that's

cause in Austria people don't hear that people don't know It people think when you watch all these movies that we go out and we shoot people and we [ __ ] drink and party and that's what we do we're not human that's all we do and it seems like we always talk about the worst you want to talk about the worst of me the burden I don't know we want to talk about the worst you don't want to talk how I feel with that how I felt maybe on some of those murders told me the

[ __ ] apart I went to a funeral that I did I caused but I didn't cause it he caused it so when I went to the funeral of the box and I didn't sign the Cross of course I said it to myself look what the [ __ ] you did you knew I would be shooting you that's our life but you broke these [ __ ] rules you knew you would die whether it's me or Tommy or Lenny you know this what happened it was me I killed you but look what the [ __

] you did look over my shoulder look at your Family you did this you gave me this [ __ ] scar of my heart you [ __ ] I loved you like a brother you forced this and if I don't do it I die and you die anyway that's our rules that's the life that's girls in Austria so but people don't ever talk about that or think about that I don't think I didn't see this in movie so maybe if I do it's quit the show it'll be in my scripted show maybe if I talk

on my podcast on my book Things will happen and come out and I don't even do this podcast book interviews or what I'm not even doing this for greed or money I'm 74 pushing 75 like a [ __ ] 22 years in prisons all this [ __ ] baggage I give a [ __ ] of course I want money not for anything anymore my life is damned they're over I want to take care of my ex-wife my son my daughter I'd like to help them before I go and some people who stayed loyal to Me

throughout this miserable experience those are my motives those who clear my motives you still trust people of course look of course I trust you I already thought you think I don't think I think about every [ __ ] thing you think I would sit in here with you and these other people with the lights then if I didn't think about you or trust you I trust you I think you're a gentleman I looked at some of you pass things I listen to some Of the tapes you run I make decisions before I move I'm not

a Libra I'm Sammy the bull I'm the head guy still I think like sometimes my wife oh she don't call me that guy but she says Sammy well every [ __ ] thing you do you think like a [ __ ] gangster personal things that come up I sense that we want me to be you want me to be gay tomorrow what do you want me to be I'm a gangster and that's the way I think I was brought up My whole [ __ ] life so I think of every [ __ ] day I

analyze everything that said or done or anybody that do business with and there's people who do business with me now who has this legitimate as it comes the guy from mosaic that them and their wives and people talk to me and though my whole neighborhood talks to me loves me blow horns they come over a woman rang my [ __ ] Bell cuz I was home alone and she came in with a pot of [ __ ] stew I Said what's that for she says and I said I know you're all alone for days I

just wanted to eat eat she's given me full tea and I get a little all over the place with everybody just about I was gonna say I'm not a drunk I don't drink I don't take drugs I don't gamble John got mad at her own game who blew more gangsta don't gamble I'm dis gangster what were the biggest differences between you and God personality-wise Every difference you could possibly have I walked around with a [ __ ] sweatshirt i abided by girls in Austria I didn't want to be noticed and sore and go around with

a $3,000 Brioni suit and a hand-painted tie and telling everybody I'm Sammy Tabo one of the biggest gangsters in the world that's what he did I'm John Gotti and we're biggest gangsters in the world I'll never forget we were in a club one night and one of The John John had two bodyguards Bobby Borriello wanted another guy and Bobby Borriello whispers in my ears and Sammy there's two people at the anti under the bar they're watching you guys real close do you want me to go and rouse them up and see what's going on I

said no no no hold up I said John Bobby noticed there's two people out to get into the bar on the other end all the way at the end don't look now and They're looking at us Bobby wants to know should he go over there and you know push it around a little bit check it out Sammy no oh I saw that they were looking that's our public that state me hit me like a ton of bricks our public now I didn't say this but my mind said we're gangsters we are under the radar we

don't exist we're a secret society and the Brotherhood what [ __ ] public we're not actors we're not married to actresses more public what The [ __ ] are you talking about we don't exist at a public he's proud of it he called them over gave him an autograph or thing I'm loving my head I said what the [ __ ] this ain't even real so what difference is I never did that I was with him I was dressed we came from somewhere but I never did that even though I don't do it I don't

brag about see I spent 22 years in prisons a good part of it is after I cooperated you're going prison there for your cooperation It's a tough place at the time I got along with everybody blacks white Hispanic Asian American there even though there's not that many Asians but different gangs abies from a Mexican gangs and I think they killed I didn't even get into that many battles John winning all his races [ __ ] he got hit he got beat to a pulp by a black guy then he tried to pay the ABS to

get even I didn't have to pay nobody I walked around I would tell I had an Argument with a guy on the phone in some moose so when I first get into that unit this big unit I said this is an MCC I said what phone is ours that we use or the fall over there on that wall and how come he's on the phone no each tier as a fool he's not on our tears he on out it no but he takes the phone I mean he takes the phone don't he have the phone

you but he takes that one too takes whatever Foley was takes it over 40 ones yeah so How long do we have to wait for to make a phone call when he gets off no I'm not wait until he gets off and I walk over and I tap them on the shoulder bro you on my phone I gotta make a phone call you want to hang up you said get the [ __ ] out is break your [ __ ] face all right but get off the phone anyway I want to make the call then

you could break my first you do whatever you want hold on hey listen I'll call you back got some [ __ ] maniac not you thought you ain't gonna use the phone oh I'm gonna use the phone I'm gonna tell you what happens now I'm squared up I'm ready to go I said I'll tell you what I mean you're gonna fight maybe you're gonna break my ass I more than likely the way you look more than likely you will don't ever go to sleep you better kill me don't go to sleep when you sleep out

King I give you that promising [ __ ] owns this [ __ ] Maniac I Sammy the bull I could give it no no you can't give me nothing you can give me a beatin if you want right now you can't even use this [ __ ] phone number unless you ask my permission if no none of us on my tier is using it I don't give a [ __ ] you see I stood my ground but I didn't play games like John racial [ __ ] I didn't do that and I didn't even say

the guy was a black guy but he was because it's not a racial with me I Don't give a [ __ ] what he was I want my phone but I didn't play that game in prison I they knew I stood my ground as small as I am and as old as I start again and I didn't [ __ ] with nobody I didn't play any racial games I ain't doing and people knew that more than likely if we're gonna do sonmi we got let's kill him because he's not gonna just ignore it or walk

away or accept to be he's not gonna do that it's gonna come back and that's what I did who my Life and in prisons the part earlier when he were talking about you ain't got er speaking and he told you you're gonna take it I'm gonna get out because I'm the boss they need me you do the time and you walked away but what is the process from there to Frank coming up to you saying he's extremely paranoid in prison he's you know out of control with the words what he's saying Sammy we gotta go

you know if we get out of this and we Leave we got to take them out you're the boss that's please just let that's before when's before your conversation with them so the question I have for you is the following that's at the end I did 11 months with him when I when that conversation happened I'm already in prison 11 months with him in MCC so all them things out stories like that are pray leading up to this and I still was there this conversation I got 22 years in prisons this is the worst 11

Once I did in all my prisons and I did rotten [ __ ] time and some hell holes because you had a lockdown dude the 11 months he was in was the worst why is that it was just it was torture he didn't want to go in he did not want to go in jail and he was [ __ ] weird I give another story ten books I had containers when we first get in a little time has passed I get a visit my wife grabs my hand and she's saying Sam you are in so

much trouble she's what my Aunt she she feel sorry for me I guess so she's one of my hand you're in so much trouble I read the papers I said baby although [ __ ] the papers don't worry about the papers they [ __ ] a lot Franky LoCascio we're on a visit into John Doe franking the caps shield taps around his shoulder I said what is it bro and I leaned over so he could say something in my head and I was gonna say he tells me tell your wife to stop rubbing your head

what'd You say tell your wife to stop rubbing your hand [ __ ] you talking about I don't even actually realize she's won my ear now now look at that she's wrong my man and he points not with his finger but with his head he nods to John so I look up to John John disasters hands crossed across his chest we're smart and they're not I said what the [ __ ] is this I turn around to my wife I said babe stop over my hand why because if the gods see it they might take

it as a Contact visit and they stop the visit because you're not supposed to have a contact visit they may take that she stopped visit is over we go all three of us the video was visitors a gun like I'm standing at the back with all of us and we're getting that dressed new strip search I said John what the [ __ ] was that all about what my wife said me you're done the bush got act like an underboss I gotta act like an underboss My wife was rubbing my hand she wasn't giving me

a [ __ ] what the [ __ ] are you talking who the [ __ ] you think you're talking to like that and maybe you're right and they basically bend over look up my ass tonight we start getting dressed and go back in but these things made me sick there's a hundred of them when you're saying to dine so your interview I knew if Frank came he's gonna deny that he never said he wants to be the One that takes the hit he wants to one be the one that pulls the trigger but then

you said you had 10 12 14 names that you have to take out the brother the son all these guys you ratted on a piece of paper then you you know crumble the paper you throw it away and you say no then you went to the FBI how were you processing that decision in there no I went and what I went later in other words once Frankie tells me that I'm processing when we kill him again I Don't stop the process I don't just sit on my hands okay though though we're gonna kill him when

we get out okay no there's a process and I start thinking we're we're gonna kill him who's gonna drive him where we're gonna bury him who do I have to kill his brother selling this one that one Jeannie got it I'll happen to like Jeannie guy I think he's that he's the best of the Gottis at one point it was 14 15 people on a piece of paper I ripped it up and flush it down The ball so I'm done I'm not killing I'm not doing why I don't why I quit what do you mean

why I quit here's my best [ __ ] friend my boss I did so many things for this guy all them trials him I rigged the trials they threatened people I [ __ ] bribed people and this is all fact and he turns on me you love your wife she's extremely loyal to you wouldn't every possible way imaginable suppose she turns on you like a [ __ ] Beast tomorrow well how would you feel this is how I felt I was betrayed by somebody who's a brother father somebody that you gave your whole life to

betrays you that's some [ __ ] guy who just pointed you out of a mug book or a cap or no this is the the closest person to you he survived that kind of you you're surviving that kind of him and now window when the rubber meets the road he's throwing you to the wolves It broke my heart it broke me wouldn't that be a bigger reason to make the move though if you think about it what happened with Paul Paul oh the heart yeah I [ __ ] up I am a but tremendous plotter

the [ __ ] will found Frankie tells me we're gonna go to a victory party we were dead we're not gonna go to the victory party we can't beat the case normal Sam eatable would immediately of plotted and killed him in prison and I'll tell you another thing if he dying In prison their case I'm not even on the tapes so get trolled shapes out or you got a produce who's saying these things he's saying about Sammy he's not saying about Sammy the bull he's just saying Sammy how do I know that's me there's a

million men saying he's out there down in the [ __ ] case he actually talks good I'm gonna make him the boss he's got a run the family if I'm gone I love the guy he's talking out of both sides Now but a jury will never know that that's not me and there was a guy Sammy cash who died not long before that I could have turned around and said he's talking about me he's not talking about this and he loves his sin he's talking about Sam occasion I would had a shot but I wasn't

looking at nothing I broke the normal Sammy wouldn't have mentally broke he would have thought just like I thought about coming here to talk I think about every [ __ ] thing all the Time that whole thing to me was it's over that's why I'm asking a question because you're a methodical way of making decisions if you would have gone the same way you have that position you would have gone a different direction with your trends that's the only reason I'm asking a question I'm not asking a question to say it's the better decision or

not the better decision if a person's always make a decision a Certain way all of a sudden there's a change is that heart is that revenge is that I'm done is that I'm not this life shock shot everything I ever believed did I give it up bro I'm done [ __ ] the mob [ __ ] and I don't give a [ __ ] if I get killed because that's the rules I don't give a [ __ ] no more I'm over it's done now normally I should have just killed a Breton [ __ ]

joint [ __ ] the time add that on this time I'm gonna get life on this one yeah and Another life I'm a jello - two lives I don't give a [ __ ] no more I gave up when you're gonna say these things understand my daughter or my wife could at least say well he was a gangster he stood up and he did life that's him but I'm gonna be abused by my own lawyers he's a [ __ ] monster he's an animal that's what my wife had daughter and son are gonna have the

rest of their life and he didn't even fight back he didn't say a [ __ ] shot there like a [ __ ] potted Plant and let all these things be said so it must be true so I just I just walked away you know it's interesting you say that because you said once that John doesn't want anybody to be as equal right and I guess I was shining too much and when you talk to a lot of people in the world they'll say Sammy had more relationship with the people in the streets because John

would give the order to you and as the underboss you would go execute it but you were the one That was still in the streets doing business - construction all this other stuff so you had a lot of the context do you think in the back of his mind when he's by himself he's sitting there saying the way I became a boss as we took out Paul doesn't history repeat itself what if Sammy takes me out to become the boss do you think any of that crossed his mind of course it did of course it

did here's A couple of things I'll tell you that I know for sure there's a guy I think it was in the Genovese family went to John in the club meaning well he said Johnny you really know how to pick them and John tells him maybe he said Sammy it's [ __ ] crazy he's controlling the whole city of New York you can't get a [ __ ] job unless you get a wink and a nod from him unbelievable instead of good that's my man that's my man you want something done I'll get it done

for You know it bought it the [ __ ] at him I had 200 carpenters working for me in these partitions so my guys I go in we do a good [ __ ] job I take away roll you you and your [ __ ] I'm not breaking your balls so these people ain't stupid give that job to Sammi now I could only take so much then okay then give it to a Patrick Patrick you're gonna get this job good give me a little something over Here okay John had [ __ ] money coming in

up the [ __ ] wazoo and he's complaining about the guy disrespected him the [ __ ] you talkin about bro oh yeah all right saying I understand don't think I understand it now leave it alone okay that's construction so job didn't have a clue so we go back to the guy you know how to pick them he got man we're back to that story and another guy comes in from the Colombo Family Catholic a John I went to tallies Sammy's club on 18th Avenue tallies yeah he said went there on a Tuesday night Sammy

lends out money is a big shot I had a million and a half on the street so Tuesday everybody comes and divvies up they make their payment they wanna borrow 20 or 30 i'm hook get that envelope for Patrick boom that's 20 or 30 you gettin I do my business on that night my people are around tallies is parked so the guy goes in he says wow What there are [ __ ] Tuesday bro this [ __ ] captain it was an underboss from what a family's union bosses this [ __ ] Chevy became so

[ __ ] powerful is crazy that was intimidating to him rather than saying that's my man I'll put it in your lap you're my man somebody comes to me me Patrick set up 15 interviews and I make it a ton of money with you that's my man you want an interview go to Ed you want a podcast go to mosaic I'm saying you know my people Why would I get intimidated by you but I guess the power but I think it was more ego John had an ego like the Empire State Building like me if

you ever see me walking with him I'm holding the umbrella while it's raining I'm one step behind I always want to put him out there that's your job bro that money my job is being low-key and a lot of times you won't see me in a suit and you had no desire ever to be a boss no yet zero aspiration I'm very happy being the Underboss believe me make me underboss of your company macho happy I am but I don't I don't want to be a schmuck and I don't want to be you know I

want to be rewarded for what I do zero motivation to be a boss zero I never really gave it a tremendous thought underboss to me at that time of the most powerful organized crime family in the country was way more than I ever thought though as I never thought I'd reach that height Gotti had five brothers in the mob I Didn't have no brothers uncles aunts cousins nobody in the mark because you know a lot of times great empires that fall it's typically internal flattery who gets credit who's getting the tension who's outshining who how

much were you having other peers coming up to you saying hey Sammy look man amongst us we know who runs the family hey amongst us we know who's was there anybody playing that game in your ear or no there was none of that flattery taking Place no the only guy who ever did that to me was Nicky Scarfo he was the boss of the Philadelphia family one day I got home late around nine ten o'clock his nephew Philly and that he calls me up Sammy what are you doing nothing I just got home well what's

up he says my uncle wants to see you could you come down that let's go down to latex is a two-hour 10-15 minute drive for me and then I got to come back it's like four and a half hours you disc and Sammy Wants the scene all right I'm on my way well that's where you go he's just got it I got to go somewhere and I get in the car they go they take he wasn't allowed in the casinos but he was in the hotel pawn and he was up on whatever floor I come

in they take me to the casino I go to the elevator I go up there I go in the room he's in there they Nick I don't know I did a lot of things with Nicky how you feeling bro says good send me Good not him a lot information I did things for him I helped him win the war his war so we're close and he always comes into the family through me whether it's in my house somebody else's house my bone loss out somebody it's always comes in through me so he says you having

any trouble with this [ __ ] bomb who are you talking about what bomb are we talking about John I said bro he's my boss he's my [ __ ] friend why do you want to talk to me like that why Would you say that with me why would you do that Sammy Sammy Mac calm down I understand I understand what you know he wanted me to come in through somebody else - Joe butch I didn't like it and I like the smell of it why would he want to do it from day one I

came through you why would he want to change that I don't have the [ __ ] clue I don't have a clue maybe maybe figures I'm tired I have no idea but please Don't throw don't put me on the street that we're gonna talk I wouldn't do that to you don't thumb through that woman all right Sammy all right don't take it personal but let me tell you one thing bro come on we're close let me talk to you what if you have a problem let me know I'm on your side bro he's saying it

to you he said to me if you have a problem keep your eyes open bro if you have a problem come to me I'm on your side Nikki I'm exhausted bro I I Thank you so [ __ ] much I gave him a kiss I think you I went to frizzy I think I hit him half on the [ __ ] lip bully him a [ __ ] kiss I walked out as I thank you so much Nikki I really really do it's nice I'm just a little cranky it's late I'm exhausted you want me

to have somebody Drive you home nah get my car out I'll get home don't worry about and then what no but it made me think why is a boss of another family out of state saying this Now Nikki's no fool and Nikki wouldn't say that to me if he doesn't feel something's right this was towards the end and I've gotten other clues with things but I still wouldn't go against my better judgment than to be loyal to John like a dog no matter what happened you ever get a dog and you could beat him up

sometimes you give him a kick at his [ __ ] it is 3 seconds ladies wagging his tail at you that's me I'm loyal to Anybody unless you [ __ ] with me or betray me or do something crazy then I'm do I could become your worst nightmare I admit it I could become your worst nightmare I want to eat you alive he is these things and and he's catching delusions and he's now trying to move guys who coming through me had very happily coming through me pushing them in another direction why you mentioned a

lot of businesses that you did and when you read about it you you got a lot of Things that comes up I mean it was some construction plumbing the Lissa's along this right drywall flooring you name it how many of them were legit how many them were not it was it a split between whatever they were legit okay they legit to the point that they legitimate business but I have control to push it in another direction but I have the power to do that through unions through jobs teenis true that so I have that power

and I'm bringing it To people who were around me people talk about how you ran businesses whether it's the children of the deceased fathers or whatever maybe based on what they say you can agree or disagree with this there's a system so a lot of times there's investment companies where they go in and their specialty is buying businesses and they're not doing good and they build them up and then they keep and they take revenues was your system the following system I'm curious I know what you're gonna say to the system number one step number

one find a local profitable business number two given protection number three eliminate the owner number four take over the business number five show up to the funeral would you say that was a disease that's really curious to hear I never killed the partner or a business associate I never went into a profitable company and said give me a piece and I'm gonna give you a Baton never did anything that's in the movies That's not me because after I cooperate said how come nobody ever [ __ ] ratted on you so it's the same question you're

asking me in a different way I told them why would they who don't listen to Gaudi on that tapes who did I hurt what did I do everybody I did business with was extremely successful with it very few it in my heart even contracts I had verbal commitments I give you my Word you give me your word you keep your books why why would I do it that way god forbid you drop dead your kids take it I got nothing to do with it no I'm not gonna control your kids your kids own it so

we had no paper don't even worry about [ __ ] like that unless your kids have problems and want to come to me then I'll talk to them but I never bullied my way into anything when I had the drywall company I had over 200 carpenters working for a Contractor will call me up Sammy I am so stuck I need 30 guys who no matter who he calls he can't get 30 guys overnight I would go in with Joey Madonna he needs 30 guys we could shut down this and we could pull something from the

end we could good 7:30 carpenters tomorrow how am I [ __ ] hurting anybody I got 30 carpenters I'll give another little example I was partners with a Jewish contract a verbal it's gonna give me 10% of the project sorry small high-rise not A big big one the job is what they call construction a bastard everything under the Sun goes wrong with it no matter what happens they order nuts and bolts the [ __ ] nut don't fit in the hole everything is a disaster every little [ __ ] thing that could go wrong went

wrong so he calls me up Sammy I'm gonna we're gonna take a beat in there really I mean I know the jobs are bastard but how depot are we and all my bundler buddies would make guy best advisor in The world for a snake snake of a human being but what's the story I'm gonna go in minions and all your renders maybe 250,000 now back then 250 thousands to one for thousands a lot of money okay let me we'll talk we'll see let's finish up the job and see where it goes and how it goes

my blood loss was I hang up you don't have to pay that why not he's Joe what is he gonna do he is George and he can't really do nothing it's no paper there's no nothing you're right about That but what the [ __ ] is gonna ever do business with me again after I do this to this guy who's gonna do business they had the business Sam you control the universe barek I paid the 250,000 I put up my head two or three months I'm not exactly positive but not a [ __ ] guy

calls me up another Jewish guy he says Sammy I'm doing the project I heard he's got hurt over there yeah yeah we took a beating The [ __ ] job nothing one writing on what I want what we did it just one it went bad he says yeah I heard a number would you lose well feel hard the number tell me would you what do we had lost two hundred fifty three hundred thousand or two fifty is the right number I lost two hundred fifty thousand he says that is so [ __ ] honorable for

a streaker I never met a street guy like you I'm gonna give you a piece of my job I want you to protect me with unions and this And then the other thing you know you can come come in with the drywall in this than their thing here's a guy in these stories that I go raping [ __ ] people left and right and they don't do that that's why nobody ever rattled around me except for John with his [ __ ] big mouth nobody ratted on me and I'm dealing with 15 different companies I

got unions up the wazoo I don't back up like when I told you how I shared the [ __ ] money everybody earned the union delegate the the president the vice-president's union delegate the shop steward how many people did you have control about your peak outside of Union I mean juror judges cop I mean was it who else was it not an M no judges are cops I mean I there was cops a couple of cops working that world but I didn't have cops and judges I didn't bribe people like doesn't want To get involved

with people like that what's the story of the $60,000 to a jury was that a complete that's true that's true the 60 K to a juror yeah okay John was on trial that's another thing I did for John every trial he had he threatened jurors or paid jurors or bribed jurors I did everything under the Sun the 60,000 was the head of the Westies and a guy named Bosco comes to me and says Sammy the head guy on the on the jury panel for John's trial he's Facing life I could get to him really all

right let's get there let me I want to talk to let's cut that I work out an agreement that I will give him $60,000 20,000 up front 20,000 in the middle of the trial and 20,000 at the end and after the trial I'll get him a job as a teamster foreman and they'll be making sixty-five to seventy-five thousand the [ __ ] vehicle seems unemployed I'll do all those things and he'll become our friend That's great I'll tell him but I'll know a little bit more if hearing eggs in any way shape or form and

he could go to the feds with this I'll kill him once he thinks that 20 he's got to be coming I'll be committed Sammy I'll tell him myself I know him then Bosco's no joke he went to out of the country was fighting him [ __ ] Bosnian Wars I mean this guy was a [ __ ] maniac but we did that so that's what we did in that Particular trial there's other trials he had a trial where there was a guy in the Carpenters Union and he busted up a joint the guy who owned

the place is a made guy John sent a few of the Westies down to give him a beating steady giving him a beating the Irish kid is shot him in his ass guy didn't die but it shot him not a guy was scared to death they will with the Genovese people we went to talk to them they Didn't want nothing to do with it do what you want with the guy we don't give a [ __ ] now the guy was going to maybe be a witness in the case of what happened so I went

to meet the guy a guy came by he don't know you don't know who are you my name is Sammy maybe you heard of me Sammy the book oh you're saving a book yep I'm gonna tell you something now you're gonna go in and you're gonna say this had nothing to do with John and I Give him a whole legal argument of what to do you have two choices you can go to the FBI and rat me out I'll do a couple of years I'm not worried about it the next guy who comes to kill

you there's no saving you no more or you couldn't run just run the [ __ ] out of this thing but you don't have to I'll always be your friend if you do this in the truck that's case number two - John wants to sell me out after doing 11 months those are two cases there's more how do you Process fear it's I've heard a lot of different things you say about fear I've heard you talking to Diane Sawyer about what does feel really mean you know you're explaining from different standpoint but did feel Drive

you did you have any fear how did you view feel fear to me is that when I was young I mean I was doing a robbery and I got shot and all kinds of things and all my life I was in conflict of different things by the time I got Out of the military even when I went is in the military there's a fear of going to Vietnam they were bringing on body bags left and right so I'm surrounded with violence and this and that in every way you could look at it when I finally

hook up with the Mafia and I'm 23 when I went home I said to myself you won't live to 40 there's no [ __ ] way you're gonna live to 40 you got maybe a 17-year run so you'll either be dead before 40 or you will be doing life in prison Course you got you got no [ __ ] you would do all this weird [ __ ] you had accepted that I accepted that and that eliminated fear when I'm 40 or 45 and I'm doing things I have no [ __ ] faith I'm in

three Mafia Wars the first one in the Colombo frame it was the second part of the Gallo war shorty tells me and I'm a pup nob nothing sure he says go home and pack your bags packed my bags yeah we're gonna hit the mattresses back then you Didn't see movies like this what are you talking about hit the mattresses he started laughing he says we're gonna eat sleep and [ __ ] together 24 hours a day seven days a week we're gonna try and kill the gallows and they're gonna try and kill us you're part

of us now okay I got a couple loans a couple most I had two three thousand five thousand down the street nothing I said I just gotta get the loans and I'll make some pickups in between no don't ever talk to me About money again I got loans out there woody no talking about money just what I said this ain't about money [ __ ] the money your even they don't have to pay me no we'll give you money well feed you don't worry about worried about killing here's what happens Sammy we're gonna give you

a little fact of life they're gonna try and kill us there's a lot of us there's a pack of us We're a pack of wolves so one day you want to go pick up your lone you sneak away from the pack they see it Sammy every week tries to go pick up buddies you already get killed for sure you want to get laid for your dick you're gonna sneak away they'll put that together you're gonna get killed you're horny goat jerk-off and [ __ ] money forget about family forget about everything hit the mattresses coming

young kid I've been in gangs and I'm Tough and I'm this and I'm that this is a whole new [ __ ] world there's no way I'm gonna survive all this this is [ __ ] crazy all together I mean [ __ ] mafia war I'm [ __ ] 23 years old this is nuts I'll never survive this so it eliminated fear when we were going to take out Paul frankly Chico when he was alive and John and we were you know everybody knows the story John with the tapes and Paul got killed and John

Gotti Became the boss but that's not the story what happened before who was involved how many what was the problems why are we gonna kill Paul nobody asked that question nobody asks the question of you're sitting in the car at 5:30 at night in Manhattan right before Christmas there's tens of thousands of people coming out of these buildings all at once they're not going home now hustling home they're waiting for their families who meet them they go eat they Go see the lights they go shopping but the crowds are astronomical nobody asks what were you

doing what were you thinking in that car with John John was my driver by the way I had the walkie-talkie I had everything so when we're talking about they let me get back to him we're talking about the hit John says we could do this and we could do that and I said an idea and he says no let me so frightening she goes as ole Frankie Chico knows I was Involved in two wars already with the Colombo's and then when Nicky Scarfo and Philadelphia so he says no no listen Sam he's done this let

him pluck myself and I plotted that hit I'm the guy in the car with a walkie talkie with a gun I made myself a backup shooting so there's 11 people on we're gonna kill Castellano so there's crash car backup shooters the four guys who are gonna shoot everybody's in place what's my position but backup shooter I'm in the car and I'm calling the shots while I'm sitting in the car it's packed and I'm my eyes are all over the place there's two [ __ ] cops on the corner and that's only a couple hundred feet

away from I says oh my god this comes down these cops are gonna pull out their guns and make a move my job now the guy who's not pulling the trigger is to go there and kill them so the shooters who can get away so when you say well you're the shooter my job Now is to kill them and I'm sick I don't want to kill these two cops but I know what my job is thank God just before they came they turned around and start walking up the Avenue chatting the other way so there

were a dead there's actually a cop from what I know in the government knew who saw it and the FBI asked them why the [ __ ] didn't you pull out your gun he said this was so [ __ ] professionally done I'm not a [ __ ] fool there must have been backup Shooters over this guy was on two feet of maybe 75 feet ahead of me if he would have pulled out a gun he was right I told the FBI he was right I would have killed him I was told John pull up

I was jumped out the [ __ ] door and killed him so he was right there this poor bastard wherever he was that again going back to who's the shooter that alley boy go shoot him and you think from the background where you're not afraid [ __ ] no Teddy Atlas said you went up to him To want to train with him boxing and he talked to you about a fear and you said I'm not afraid he says every boxers afraid Teddy Atlas is an [ __ ] Teddy Atlas was which somebody is brought a

cousin of some [ __ ] body he was what he had to say these things I think but he did ask me that question I would box I would train with not him with another guy but he knew and he was like stumbled one I used to take care of him and I wanted him to train my son my Son wanted to fight so I said Teddy train him a little bit he can fight like a bastard he just don't want to fight he's more like my wife than they are yeah you don't want to

fight you what you'd have to go there and hit him for him to fight he'll fight back and you wish you didn't hit him he's a tough little bastard but he won't fight he's calm nature if you argue too much and you get stupid he'll walk away from you he's not afraid he Just won't won't fight you know I don't want to borrow much so he's the opposite of me so Teddy Atlas said to me one day are you afraid and said no I didn't say I don't have fear I said no in other words

the reason I said no is when I go in the ring and I did fighting a little bit I'm not professional but in the ring in the clubhouse and the whatever so I see a guy on the other end of the ring this [ __ ] got he's got ripples he's so ripped Ahava it's not fear if the bell rings I'm gonna fight him but I already know I might get a beating now if I was afraid what do I do what am i doing in the ring if I'm afraid but he took it to

a different level meaning that's cowardice his cow would be saying he's not afraid he's really afraid he's talking so it was it was a whole creative thing which there was a whole entourage of people who wanted to make me look bad and say things like he's an animal he did this And that he's afraid so if he's listening to this [ __ ] thing he's just tremendous trainer I don't know how old he is I'm 74 pushing 75 Teddy come down and put the [ __ ] gloves on with me I'll show you how scared

I am of you and you're a [ __ ] [ __ ] cut that put the gloves on with me or meet me in a bar or meet me in a back alley you [ __ ] Punk then he said and I was putting on weight that I went through a Hypnotist he tells me about it it's just all these fighters who go into what are they going in for diets for this for that so I hooked up with their hypnotist he was on the program though and I he says what do you want nothing

I want to keep up my stamina number one so I don't lose you know stamina and I want to die you know that keep me away from doing certain things eating certain foods I'm a [ __ ] sugar freak I love ice cream I love so I sort of tells the [ __ ] guy Who's a who's a Agnetha's hypnotist and they make a big deal like what I was doing but you punk-ass [ __ ] you haven't done a fraction of anything I've done good bad or indifferent you're a punk-ass [ __ ] trainer

you look like a fighter but you ain't a [ __ ] fighter who'd you fight I know I'm gonna have a war with it now the reason why I'm asking this question Sammy is because so in your in your 20s You know our brain is still not fully put together so in our 20s we're a little bit more aggressive we take a lot more risk we're not afraid of anything then we go into our 30s then we got a kid you know Gerard you know Carolyn oh my god I you know I don't want to

make anything 40s then you go do time then you're six and a half years in the hole you got all this imagination taking over your brain there is no am I gonna live am I gonna Die then you get out and you're set so are there fears concerns things that keep you up at night right now like your imagination sometimes probably takes off going back does it ever or do you have a hold of it today I got a hold of it today we know what I'm worried about today well you could say I believe

that maybe I was you know III think it's the best way to go clay the truth you shoot good and you shoot in the head you're instantly gone you don't feel no pain You don't feel not so that's number one I fear cancer stroke I can't treat these things more than anything else you do fear cancer a stroke well I would I would rather not have that yeah I fear that but at this age I understand if it ain't here now yeah in this cute little body it's gonna come it's sooner or later it's gonna

come we alts there's an end I see rich people who take care of himself Highly take care of himself with doctors and they'll die 68 70 76 80 I mean that's life that it's gonna happen so am I gonna be afraid of it I'm not afraid of it I don't want it cause I'd rather die quick then die of cancer because I've seen people die my friends your parole of died didn't kill me to watch him die like that I wouldn't want to die like that I've seen family members get sick and French when I

was in jail the second time around I'm in MCC in the Hole I'm in bed and in four or five guards come to my so hey I mean get and look and they all look silent oh my god something happened what happened we want to tell you some news tell me - [ __ ] what happened Bob god forbid my son my daughter my ex-wife whoever John Gotti died this was in 2002 okay one God look he don't give a [ __ ] you're [ __ ] wrong you don't even know what the [ __

] he took why would you tell Me I am I I don't give a [ __ ] get a get the [ __ ] out of it why would you say that well Sam he was your enemy wasn't my enemy we were like [ __ ] we were like brothers we will attach that the [ __ ] hip I don't want to see nobody die like a [ __ ] dog in prison with cancer not happy about it you should be happy why what why should I be happy to watch somebody die like that I

would rather shoot him and I know that's gonna sound Demented but that's my life not watching him die like a dog he died like a dog some guy in one of the prisons a black guy he came to me with a picture he said Sammy who's this guy I got the picture I looked at it looked at it I said I don't know come on Sam take another look I don't know who is it he says it's John Gotti I did not hit me I never seen anything like it in my life before he died

they must have taken a picture of him He didn't look nothing like John Gotti it was horrible and it made me think what a [ __ ] rotten way he died it's the same but it also makes me think it a whole [ __ ] goddamn judicial system and how many guys are gonna die like that die in prison what life so every place I went there who's got life who's got 50 years who's got 30 years how many guys are gonna die like that nobody gives a [ __ ] well they care about is

open the borders And let them in how about the people who are in prisons in this thing will you go into prison I like I'd love to go into prison reform and and everything like that I've been with so many different black guys were friends in prison and the prisons that the whole system the judicial system is so rigged I will talk to them and maybe some guys would ask me a question it was so [ __ ] rigged began his outdrink this poor guy he's broke he's Coming out of a ghetto so you don't

have the [ __ ] lawyer they give him a lawyer or he gets a cheap as [ __ ] lawyer who's really not even a lawyers a jerk-off a horrible lawyer I'll put it that way and he gets an investigator they hire a drunken ex-cop who's his investigator this broken-down lawyer this broken-down cop is going to fight his battle against there's four five six excellent attorneys working on your case to bury you against that one guy who Don't even know what planet is on and who's there investigated the FBI how can he win and when

you look at the system they're even lying and rigging [ __ ] things and I don't want to say the younger agents I knew they weren't illegitimate but look at some of them now how they get things that they could go after Trump they could do so many [ __ ] weird things so how does this guy stay in a [ __ ] chance this poor bastard and I got an eighth grade Education is asking me for helping myself I said bro it's the lawyer I mean I don't know the details of the case and

I'm not a lawyer ask your lawyer wait until the end before trial and ask him if he could get a play that's the best time you can get a plate because when they get close to trial they don't want to even go sometimes they'll give you a good deal it's cool if they can do that and I feel so guilty even telling them that because I really can't tell Them you're [ __ ] dead you're dead and if you go ahead with your case instead of taking ten fifteen years on a plate you're gonna get

lose the case and get 35 years so I don't know what the top and then people would ask me questions because they knew I cooperated with the government and they would come over and ask me questions the best answer I used to hear is that it's not perfect but it's better than Ethiopia's law system now I'm in president what do I give a [ __ ] about Ethiopia's legal system I'm not in Ethiopia I don't even know where the [ __ ] that is but who cares about that I'm in the United States I got

on my last case 20 [ __ ] years but the government listens but the sentence by the guidelines is supposed to be 12 under low fifteen on the high I got twenty because Sammy got a lenient sentence the first time but I got a lenient sentence and I did it What's that got to do what this says but that's what gave them an upward departure they gave me 20 supposed to be two and seventeen and a few I did seventeen seven more than I'm supposed to do they're like a lifetime supervised release and $100,000 fine

and I lent them money even the kids who got pinched and one that a couple of them flipped says did Sammy ever buy the drugs no this is their informant no did he sell the drugs no did he go out with Jews Hang it out no there were kids that was 55 years old I wasn't gonna go to clubs and hang out with that so what the [ __ ] did I do I lent them money when I took the plate I told Lynn Stewart was my lawyer I'm copping out two things Lynn on this

plate there's reasons there's another whole story you know be in the book but I didn't even do she said what's the difference I said you wanna know something me write the [ __ ] is the Difference whether they talking about fifty thousand four hundred thousand pills or a million clothes I guess you don't make any difference let me ask you this question so you're running the government you're running the nation hypothetically okay and you're thinking from that standpoint you're sitting there saying to the one conversation so I'm talking to this guy hey get off the

phone no right now you don't ever get off the Phone we don't ask my permission here's how this is gonna go we're gonna fight you bigger than me you're probably gonna beat me but don't close your eyes tonight because I'm gonna kill you and I'm not worried about going to prison for two years I'll do my time I'll come out it's not a big deal you immediately go to the worst-case scenario right and the worst-case scenario is if you commit a crime and the government's gonna have some kind of a punishment for you and The

punishment is going to present the prison doesn't scare you so you got a life penalty which is death penalty hey if you do this we'll kill you let's take that part aside you got imprisonment what punishment could there be for you to not even think about committing that crime because you don't want to face the punishment is there any punishment that would have prevented Sammy the bull from committing the front crime no so it's not the punishment that you Were seeing I wouldn't a guy if I were to kill the guy the phone I wouldn't

got two years or I got life life and I understood that but what I'm asking you is is there any kind of punishment to change to say for the rest of your life you can't do X Y Z or we're gonna do this word does it hurt to hurt the criminal where the criminal says that that pain I'm not willing to put up with well why wouldn't I take the that's good that's a good point It's a good point I'll give you that it's good point but take my point how about these [ __ ]

people just broke [ __ ] laws against Trump and broke every law in the [ __ ] book they're not using the RICO law against them they used it against us the Italians the black the Hispanic why don't they use it over here if Cole me his daddy FBI somebody in the Justice Department and somebody in this CIA and somebody in this organization they're all looking up And they all broke the law let's assume that's happening and that's true why don't they use the RICO law on them that they can't win they may go Rico

so the [ __ ] RICO law is made for me and blacks and Hispanics and people do you could put in prison you want the people to look at us while you break the law where the crook worry about Sammy yeah I robbed two hundred thousand why you guys are robbing Millions listen I understand the government Better than anybody you know why because they're all different families to me the Democratic parties the Gambino family the Republican Party is the Genovese family the [ __ ] moderates as Colombo family the [ __ ] media is this

family Hollywood is this family they're all different families everybody's got a motive everything look at the whole [ __ ] picture it's all greed it's all about money the whole country so if you look at it through my eyes everybody's Doing what I did everybody not everybody there's legitimate people who are caught in the mix of this I'm not talking about them I'm talking about these congressmen and governors and people they call it all the time left and right what do they get a kick in the ass a boot on the slap on the wrist

why is all these other people that law it's got to be so good and so bad I told you in the beginning you want to stop a lot of crimes give opportunities we've Robbed as a mom you guys are robbing you robbing too much we took a sliver of the pie so other people could eat human beings could eat you're taking everything a [ __ ] middle-class person can't eat they can't go to a movie sometimes they can't spend nothing because they're booked they're broke because of reasons your reasons if you want to hit me

with three thousand years okay but let me sit next to whoever James call me hey bro how many Years did you get 40 oh that's cool I got 25 well I got 50 well I got a life where is his seat where is he in prison in what cell I could tell you all the black and Hispanic and every [ __ ] body else like me they're in prison now I'm not saying if you break the Lord there's no consequence make an equal fair system the whole country left to me I look at the country

I don't know you know what planet I'm on I got out of prison I've Seen phones I don't know if data use the [ __ ] so now I have a hard time with the phone I look at computers I don't know what planet I'm on you're almost eliminated my existence when I got out you got to talk to the television go to Netflix if you don't do that nothing happens before when I used to talk to a little television they thought I was crazy now if you don't talk to the television you're crazy so

look at the system don't Look at me as an individual I got away with X showed it everybody so did this whole country built on it look at universities they got people hating conservatives now I was a liberal most of my [ __ ] life sometimes I'm a moderate sometimes I think the Conservatives are right I'm on that side sometimes I think the Liberals are right I'm on that side I'll give you another example I'm in the [ __ ] gym I go to the gym and there's a whirlpool I'm Sitting in there for my

[ __ ] raggedy-ass bones and I'm getting a whirlpool and there's a woman in there and a guy he's sitting up on top put his feet in the [ __ ] thing and she's in the upturn deck and they're talking about letting the illegal aliens in we should give them licenses and we should give them cause and we should give them Social Security and we should give them food stand we should give them this and this and I'm Listening if they don't think Ted 1215 minutes goes by I'm toasted I'm ready to get out I

got open my mouth that's just me I said do people mind if I injected myself into your conversation for two or three minutes because I'm gonna get out no no no god I said use a really really good people both things really really good people you're so interested in helping people I like that these are really good people the only thing is That use a braces the both use oh wait a minute wait a minute wait i right yes you are what do you mean we didn't say anything about black people give a [ __

] what you said what you said if you want to give all of this you didn't say one word about helping black people in our country their forefathers came here from like [ __ ] slaves they're stuck in some ghettos they need opportunities you didn't see one word about helping them Just Hispanic people run it across the border so you're good people but you forgot a whole section of our country and they belong here maybe not by their own well but they belong here so I think he's a racist and I'm gonna go because I've

been in this thing for 15 minutes so I added my two minutes now I hope you enjoyed it I'll see you later I had get up to walk the [ __ ] out but that's the truth look at what the [ __ ] is going on in the country you can't ask Me how would you think oh this is too much or this is this when all this is going on if you want to point that out all of my wrongs and I agree with you I would say like I told you from the beginning

I wish I had a different opportunity when I was born and raised I wish I wasn't relaxing only god knows what I would have done that my parents would have been proud of me would help me to go to schools I'm not a bad person I don't enjoy this would've sound Hypocritical - I don't like killing I'll enjoy it I don't like it I just do it like a soldier would do it for the military like I was gonna do in Vietnam if I would've went there I don't know no the only in Vietnamese people

I know too much fingernails or my toenails and they're great people I don't and when I look at it sometimes I they're so nice I said what the [ __ ] were we doing in Vietnam nothing happened and they were there That they didn't come over here and rape our Vic the whole country from the beginning it was a great country it's there's no country like it I agree with them the legal system there's nothing like it but you gotta make it fair all the way around then maybe you don't make people like me maybe

you don't have that many people shooting each other in Chicago maybe a lot of things are different it's on you [ __ ] not me the reason why I'm asking a Question I know you listen you're intelligent guy no I'm actually sure what I was going to do with this interview I guess I really like you now I'm not gonna give you no more interviews but it's the last one you honestly do I'm asking a question because for me it goes back to how do we prevent the eight-year-old Sammy from getting into that that's the

part and then chill and then from there how do we make the 22 year old Sammy who is about To commit something to say I don't know if I'm willing to face that crime he never becomes the 22 year old ifs we handle at eight years old yes we got just the same ego goes by every [ __ ] car in this country their God made them that's our future we're all gonna get old and die know what we do that's our future all those little kids that's why a child molestation and these degenerates you

gotta killed that I believe in Capital punishment for them rapists ho grand a woman she's just walking to work she might have a nice body whatever the [ __ ] don't you want about it you want to talk to her and try to make a good but leave her the [ __ ] alone if he hands off our make the field when they young go put back people who understand psyche learning disabilities I mean they're on it now for myseif from the kids my grandchildren school I see they walk more into it Get him even

more into it start there invest the money in the kids and you won't have 22 year olds now you're always going to have a nut that's why gun control don't work always gonna have screwballs and they're always going to do something with if they don't use a gun they'll use a knife or they'll use a bomb to find a way to get or they'll hit you with a car they'll hit 15 people with a car just complete [ __ ] semi when you went to a Prison you know a lot of people go to prison

they find Makaveli some find Jesus who did you find in prison you know I looked for Jesus I look for prayer and Jesus wasn't in any of the prisons I was in and I already knew Makaveli so I didn't find him in prison what I did find is this in 2004 they took away smoking and I wanted to smoke especially when you tell me I can't that makes me want to smoke I go by the Indians they have this little group of Aliens and they're in a circle they put tobacco it's in the end to

my game regular tobacco shitty tobacco in a pipe and they smoke in a pest of pepper so I wanted to smoke so I went to ask them if I could join their group and they said you got to check with the counselor and the chaplain and I went there my son and my religion to India I'm gonna into Native American Indian now you could do that in the federal government you want that yep I change it I'm in the I'm in This circle now I went there to smoke I went in with a lie they

did the ceremony and they never pray for themselves when you have the pipe you pray for everybody else but you i pray for Patrick that this interview was great I pray that he becomes greater than he is already and if you have problems tougher bigger problems why for something I don't Patrick's wife is healthy and so I got to understand the religion a little bit and I got to respect it I did it for Five years one of the guys in there said Sammy got talk to him in what he says you ain't an Indian

that's I know well he said we have wicked I said what's what the witches and though oh yeah why don't you join us and pray with us a little bit to the goddess and the God it's alright I'll do that so I joined a group I was Catholic growing up so what I really really found out even a Muslim guy came to me and want to be joined become Muslim I couldn't do that I like Paul I'm not gonna do it so I turned and what I understood is this everybody believes in God it won't

form or another all the religions is nothing more than a road to God the Jewish community has it the Christians have it the Catholics have it the Indians have it everybody has that road to God quicker people they all have to God it's the road is different and we start arguing fighting over it but we all have The God that's what it is if you believe in God it doesn't matter whether you believe a monkey that's good the guys I saw that found Jesus in prison I've seen guys who found and they're usually crying and

whining and asking for less time and want to get out and do this that the other thing or it's an excuse for something else the devil made me do it I didn't do this on my own I mean that would I would love you know this is what they would say if they were Me the devil made me do it I found Jesus in prison and I became my holy role and that's it no I would be lying through my teeth and one thing God's gonna do with me I always said this when I get

up there if I get up there he's gonna say one thing about you sandy you're not a [ __ ] phony or a liar you tell it like you feel it you did what you did and whatever is gonna be is going to be but to start lying and crying how are they gonna face God Calling me as a lying about Jesus you didn't believe Jesus you haven't had to get out of prison but now you gotta face God he's gonna know you you're full of [ __ ] you go on the Express on that

train over there the [ __ ] out here so I don't know now that makes sense I mean it's it's your testimony but are you following any of the Epstein stuff because I know he was in the same section as you and suicide watch what his suicide watch did he kill himself With no so what do you think I was in ninth hour there's another one there's ten shout okay ten South is extremely secure I don't know if he was in that but he had another cellie at one point so I don't think he was

intense out thank South you can't even breathe that when they give you your food think the gods can't feed you they can't even open the slide a lieutenants got to come up and open the slot if he's up there I don't know how to park there would they Kill them and there's only one bunk so I don't know how he would even hang himself so it's probably on nine sell it don't take long yourself I mean if he hung himself I don't believe anybody killed him I think he knew it was over and and he

was going to be tortured for his family whatever and he took himself now I don't know they're gonna keep it going see who else now a lot of people like Clinton was with him he said two three times five Times on the flights he's wooden 26 times we also know he's a [ __ ] degenerate so maybe those people take a deep breath ah you know take a personal Clinton wherever you are that I'm calling you with degenerate but you are what you are I'm a man I understand but when you hit a certain point

you got to keep your zipper closed you can't be [ __ ] nailing a 21 year old she's old enough to know better and I give you that but Still you're in a position decision power but you're a douche I don't want to talk about you boxing a gambling did you guys ever do anything with Don King any contacts with Don King yes I went in front of a grand jury I was I was subpoenaed in front of a grand jury for boxing when I was there when I was out when John Gotti Mike Tyson

was was the [ __ ] now I had another guy and I can't think of his name I knew the trainer and I Knew the black guy I was training in the gym with him occasionally he was a tough fighter and he was a little bit over the hill so I thought of a thing to set up a fight I wanted him and someday I'll get the name I can't remember right now but I'll get him to fight the champ in Italy the champion Italy was with two brothers who were boat made guys in the

mob so I'm reaching them through the Italian people I want this guy to come in and fight my guy - black guy and my guy who win so he gets your belt so if he wins and he has your belt I want to hook up a fight with Mike Tyson and I want big money because it's a champion he's got a boat you got a boat the numbers are bigger we know them I can probably beat you now if the people around Mike want to make him duck a fight I don't think he would do

that but then it's another story but we never got that far the Italian guy had to come Here and fight a lesser of first before he fought my guy and he lost to that guy so now the thing is off but in the process of all of this John knows what's going on I have a guy the street guy can't even think of his name but he's going to Don King talking about a potential fight he's not having a lot of luck Don King stands up he don't want no part of this thing he mentions

John Gotti this that [ __ ] I'm a tough guy I Went to jail for dissing that man [ __ ] John if I'm not doing anything that [ __ ] so the kid comes back it tells so I said John forget the whole thing now it ain't gonna work he won't do it Don King won't do what we want tell him to mention my name yeah I did you don't want to be body he said he's a tough guy he did time really yeah tell the kid to go back make another appointment ain't kill

him Do you want me to kill Don King no not you the kid this guy you only tell this kid to go back and kill Don cake yeah well hit him with a proposal if he says no take a gun out and shoot all right that's what you want yeah all right if the kid it was in the kid right he's a guy who's tough listen you're the goal you gonna hit him with this proposal if he says no and gives you that [ __ ] I'm a tough guy take the gun Out and shoot

shooting my night go you want me to kill Don I said it's not me John wants you to kill what he wanted to tell you you gotta kill him he took off the kid took off I'd never seen hi to him again he must have left the country he took off so we never went after Don King because I'm riding boy I'm definitely not going after him cuz this is insane now where we're hitting the guy because you don't want to do a deal meeting guys every other week so the hit Was given but the

hit wasn't made it wasn't great against a guy who ran off the guy took off Sammy I've heard a lot of stories with you know what happened with John F Kennedy and the involvement of mafia you know and I've heard so many different stories what do you know about what happened with John F Kennedy I don't really know there's so many people who who were possible candidates for that but to make it into a shorter story the FBI when I had cooperated came to me and one I was in Quantico and they said there's guys

gonna come down to you and ask you some really high level questions hurry they came down a bunch of guys in suits and they said same things what do you know about Canada is that it yeah from what I understand you guys should know you guys participated in this hit it wasn't a mafia dude on that Cressy help you people whoa scrub this and they were left John Kennedy was good He was with the mob he did everything he was asked and then some his father was a bootlegger there with us all the Kennedys have

dirty laundry Bobby Kennedy couldn't stand the fact that the Mafia I hope make him win the election he went to war with them up he went to war with Jimmy Hoffa he went to war with the head of the FBI Hoover he went to war with everybody he made so many enemies from a guy that was loved John Kennedy and the father was respect there Was a bootlegger and they were living up to their word there are so many enemies who knows rumor has it that there's a whole concoction mixed with them all but I

don't know for sure I have no idea for in a positive way just what I hear from rumors and stuff like that last stinky or speed round I'll give you a name tell me the first thing that comes to your mind one word that comes to mind Philip Leonetti good guy Combing schema Gotti Jr he didn't belong joe Colucci good guy made bad decisions Trump if one word is not even fair because the only word I could actually think of he has so many things on both sides but he's the President of the United States

period like him dislike him it's not your call Sonny Franzese good stand-up guy Gotti senior a tremendous disappointment Albert Krieger a highly educated [ __ ] Frank Kelly signs well that he was Really a good guy Assistant Attorney General Linda lace well as a reward for finding me guilty and gone for this upward departure they offered her a smorgasbord that's what she needed and she probably ate everything that [ __ ] richard kuklinski is that the Iceman yes there isn't even a word for this piece of [ __ ] I would like to go to

wherever he's buried dig him up and shoot a - [ __ ] skull a sad piece of [ __ ] Wyatt Hoffa He wanted to Union back after he came out he couldn't get it bad decision on his part semi final thoughts here with what you're working on right now with the book and the podcast you said it's a podcast this will be coming out hopefully soon not too long from now maybe a month a couple of months who knows but it's gonna be me talking to people or the ex gangsters ages and myself talking

about my life from soup to nuts including this Conversation now so this isn't just you this is you talking with other people as guests as well on the show right very interesting final thoughts Sammy you haven't done this for quite some time since April 16th you know 20-some years ago the world's watching right now this is gonna get a lot of use this is gonna create a lot of conversations what are your final thoughts after every negative thing that was said about me and all the lies I'm Amazed how many good people talk to me

deal with me trust me from different businesses I know that they're a little afraid when they first start but once they get to know me like my neighbors and people I'm doing business with all over the place I have a tremendous warm trusting relationship and it amazes me after all the [ __ ] I went through there's a world full of real good [ __ ] people and I'm amazed by that I'm enjoying that part of my I love my ex-wife to death she's my soulmate she's not my wife anymore but she's my soulmate my

daughter my son my grandchildren if you could find something really Pleasant after all of this [ __ ] which I did and I still do every day and if I die tomorrow this fulfilled me for all the pain and suffering I went through and for everything I did and went through this made me whole again made me feel good About myself and about everybody around me and I noticed people whose call themselves victims and say something all you so-called victims you're you weren't a victim when your father or your brother or whoever was around and

he was running around with me and killing people that don't body but bothers you is that I was part of killing them I was part of their life now there could be a situation and I told my daughter and my ex-wife and my son if I die tomorrow This was my choice my life don't be mad at anybody be mad at me I broke the rules don't be mad at the person who comes if they ever come period no regrets very few very few I mean of course like a human being everybody who wants to

play Monday quarterback is there things that I would do differently without a doubt I still respect the life I think that people are left that are around now that are in goes in Austral the Mafia are doing the right thing They're carving themselves and carbon their appetite they're using their head and they're acting like cosa nostra should have act maybe in my era my era was different and the errors before that was like the Jesse James days it was a different ballgame he was using your head and you're a tremendous example of quality goes enough

stay away from for more than that Bush very little [ __ ] petty crimes there's not 50 million agents on your Backs please just stop killing and doing stupid [ __ ] then you're gonna wear these people around your neck you'll become the target again and I can guarantee you I've been with them for a while and then I also met you know everybody I don't like them I would have met a lot a lot of agents that are really really good people strong solid good people guys retired still called me today he is later

How you doing Sammy house this house that house dad house I mean they don't have to do that I know we went back and forth talking about trying to make this work you know thank you for making this work and being willing to we pretty much went through every question that we had I mean there was no holding back on the question so you were willing to be asked any of the questions and if you're watching this you want to find out more about any of Sammy's podcasts or Projects coming up we're gonna put the

links below in the description Sammy again thank you for making the time to come out and be a guest on back attainment appreciate you it's my pleasure you've been a pleasure to I hope you enjoyed this exclusive interview with Sammy the bull Gravano obviously there's a lot of technical details in the making of this interview a lot of back-and-forth but eventually we were able to make this work but I Want to hear your thoughts actually want to hear if your opinion changed about them for the better for the worse are you in the same place

some of the stories that stuck with you what stories were made to SiC where you're thinking about it right now two hours after watching this interview so either comment your thoughts below or tweet me directly at Patrick mid David that's my handle on Twitter I will respond back and I will see most of the Comments on Twitter because those are directed towards me and then on top of that if you enjoy these interviews these mob interviews we have many of them a couple them I want you to watch it you may be interested in one

of them is with the real-life Donnie Brasco you remember the movie Donnie Brasco the real-life Donnie Brasco is Joe Pistone we spent a few hours together he doesn't do a lot of live interviews and one of the parts I asked him a question I said you know Was there every time you were about to become a made man your undercover FBI for six years did you ever get to the point where you didn't want to come back to your regular life and you have to see the answer to see if you believe his response to

it or not and the other interview is with Frank Cullotta Frank Cullotta was the Hitman for pilâtre in Las Vegas if you've seen a movie Casino it's pretty much around his life and what they did so this is Another interview to watch he moved whit's pilâtre from Chicago to Las Vegas and they ran pretty much all of Las Vegas together another one to watch so if you got any thoughts comment below or tweet me directly and if you haven't subscribed yet to the channel please do so thanks for watching everybody take care bye bye [Music]