Throne and Liberty: Creator PvP Roundtable - January 2026

What's up gamers? Welcome back. We are here for our second PvP creator roundt. I'm going to introduce everybody with us here in a moment. For those of you who missed the first one, this is just an opportunity to hear from people in our community. Uh really see what types of issues are going on, what are some of the metas, some of the macro and micro topics that they see within PvP. Uh things that could be improved, things They're really enjoying. So, we'll get into lots of different topics today. Battlegrounds, GVG, maybe some other topics that

they bring up. Uh so stay tuned and we'll talk about all of that. Uh so first let me do some quick intros. First we have Jiu. Jiu is playing Gladiator and he doesn't think that his one-shot greatsword combo needs to be nerfed. Uh next we have the self-proclaimed number one tank playing Crusader. The man who loses one more Button on his shirt every time he streams. Invulnerable. And finally we have Zachary who plays Seeker. And don't be surprised if he says he isn't saying this to brag, but he's the best. Uh so gentlemen, why don't

you introduce yourselves, tell the players a little bit about yourself, and we'll start with uh Ji who? >> All right. Uh hey guys, my name is Jiu. I sometimes stream the game. I I play the game a lot. Kind of addicted at this Point. So yeah, what's up? >> Cool. Zach. >> Yeah, Zachary here. And not to brag, but I've been playing No, I'm just kidding. I've been playing uh this game since launch. Um, I play Seeker. I've always played Seeker. Um, and uh, yeah, super happy to be here and uh, to share the opinions

of what I've heard from the community and my own. >> Cool. I am vulnerable. >> Now, I got an interesting intro here. Before I get into myself, I just wanted to say one thing. Uh, Tiko, a big shout out to Tiko in general. Um, I don't think Tiko in general throughout the community gets enough praise. Um, this guy actually knows his. So, you guys need to put more faith in Tiko in general, and he's going to he's going to save our game. >> All right, check out. >> But besides that, uh besides that, hi, I'm

invulnerable. Um I'm the guy that Spams can't kill me lol in uh in world chat and in area chats. Uh people don't like me because of that, but you know, it's all fun in games. Besides that, um I've been playing um I've been playing Throne of Liberty since the Korean launch. Actually, one day after the Korean launch. So, I've been playing this game and making content for it since the actual start. I've seen everything. Um, I've been part of some of the biggest sieges. Um, so yeah, I've Had a lot of fun with this game

and I am I still love this game and I wanted to see it thrive. >> All right, great. Thank you everybody and let's just jump right into it. So, I want to start today really talking uh about Battlegrounds. I think Battlegrounds still remains uh really one of our most active communities. It's definitely uh in our data just shows players are still playing a ton of battlegrounds. So I want to start there And of course we recently had um some pretty big changes that affected battlegrounds but as well just the overall balance. Um so let's start

with battlegrounds and I want to start on the latest changes which is uh the buffs that were applied for catch-up mechanics. Um the point capping debuffs and I want to just get general opinions on how you think that is helping to shape the games. Is it helping? Do you like the way that it's helping um to Reduce blowouts? What are your thoughts about that? >> I think personally the new changes makes it people so people don't actually like spawn camp. There's been a lot of more like uh if you spawn camp for too much, you're

getting that lead. Uh you're getting that big lead and then pretty much it kind of allows the losing team to like actually go out from their spawn and actually like start rolling the ball again. So, from my personal experience And my community at least, we're say we're seeing that there's been a lot more like uh combat games recently, it just got toned down for a little bit, but then uh I played it a lot during the previous week before this current patch, which is the um the 22nd one. Wait, no. Right. The 22nd one, the

one that just came out. Yeah. >> So, pretty much uh before then there was a lot more like comebacks happening. There's been less uh I would say less Spawn camps. There's just been a lot more like uh dynamic going on in the battleground. I would say um okay I guess I'll say the next thing. So um I think in Battlegrounds so I haven't played the recent patch which was like you said the 22nd patch but there was um I personally did feel the buff that you get at level five and four was a bit too

overpowered. Now, I haven't really tried out the uh new patch to see how like it's kept at level Three, right? So, you can't go to four and five anymore. I think that's a good change because um there was a kind of you could say meta where people would lose on purpose in the start and then they would get a huge buff and then win towards the end from my experience. Uh so, the buff was a little too overtuned. So, I'm glad that they kind of, you know, brought it back. I'll be testing it kind of

later after um this recording. Um, but yeah, in general, I Think so I' I've had some overall feedback for Battlegrounds, um, that people don't really talk about. Um, personally, I don't know how you guys feel. This is my own opinion. Um, but I would say the boxes, um, are actually people don't talk about it much, but I don't actually like the box system um, in Battlegrounds. I personally um I said in a recent video, but I feel when it comes to getting buffs, they should be like strategically placed on a map um Where you have

to control the buffs, you know, if you have to get a damage buff, you go to this specific part of the map. I just feel like the kind of randomness of just opening boxes, everyone running around opening boxes, getting heals and all this stuff constantly. I personally just don't like that. I think it's kind of weird. Um, >> do you not feel like uh do you not feel like a certain area could get congested though? If if we like if you were to Have specific buffs at specific location that it would be super congested with

like DPS's going to one place, healers going to another place and then it becomes rather than it being flowing cuz I do agree with you to an extent like there is a like especially furious onslaught on the topic of like boxes and stuff. I think Furious Onslaught is way too overpowered right now. It's just super super strong. Um on on the topic of like just going back to what JJO and Invulnerable say, I can only agree that it was too overtuned. It went from from the point like you were losing then you could switch up

the game with the buffs and then you had a momentum going so you always ended up on top. So it didn't really sway you into direction of winning. It kind of somewhat guaranteed a win. So, I think this 22nd patch where you dialed it down a little bit was a really good change. So, I just wanted to address that really quick. But, Ivonable, um, what do you think? Like, do you think it would get congested at certain spots if you were to like >> manually place them fix spots? I I don't know. I'm I'm asking

like what >> um, it's a good point. I don't really think of that too much that that like that deep, but I think there are ways you can make it. So perhaps like a buff that's good for um all classes in is kind of in the same area like one of each perhaps like there's probably ways You can do it um that wouldn't make it congested like you're saying. Um but I just like if you look at for example like mobas and stuff how you get like you know there's massive buffs or whatever you have

to go to a specific part of the map you know perhaps you're um like I play Dota 2 for example there's Rashan you kill Rashan you get the immortality thing there's like certain objectives >> um but yeah I I think strategically Placed buffs makes it so not so random where I'm just breaking boxes hoping to get a certain buff like the cap buff for example if I'm a tank want to cap points it's if I if I get in the first 10 seconds or I can go around and back cap like super fast for example.

It's just kind of random. I'm I'm not a big fan of RNG kind of stuff like that. But that's I I don't think it's a massive issue. I just think it's something that you know people don't talk about much. >> So like in a sense create like small events within the battlegrounds to kind of like >> I mean yeah that could Yeah, that could be kind of Yeah, sure. Yeah, the the randomness I mean the randomness is just uh I would say there's something that we can improve on for sure, but I do agree if

you make it like let's say oh the left side is like cap buff, the right side is like DPS buff then you just make it like >> I don't know what the tank is going to do with each other on the left side what is the DPS going to be on the right side with each other and then you're probably going to find like the healer doing somewhere in between. Yeah like crazy. >> I >> What about the impact to more casual players if you change boxes? M uh I do think that most of the

casual Players I mean it in the sincere way possible but I do think that some of them don't really read what a certain like things do and then like some of the stuff also expire in like 2 minutes a minute right so there's just so much buffs when the battleground was introduced introduced in the first place so I mean the meta is like pretty easy to figure out right now. It's just like, okay, if you're a tank, got to find occupancy and just Stay alive, right? If you're a DPS, try your best to find either

reinforced steel or the the furious onslaught one, right? The right one. And then you just pretty much like just I guess that's just the current meta. And then you just like hit boxes in order for you to like just try to get it. But >> yeah, >> realistically speaking, I don't think people really hunt boxes. Like, okay, this is my first thing to do that this Like the only like one of the best thing that I got to do, right? There's only limited amount of spot for boxes. So, it's just essentially under the bridge on

the left side if we go to the battleground or the right side depending on where we spawn. But pretty much it's only those two sides and then you can just there's only one guy usually that pretty much like instantly get all the boxes and then everyone else is just like randomly praying on these like Boxes that just continuously spawning in the area. Right. >> I think >> yeah I mean I haven't really paid too much attention towards like the boxes and the buffs and all that because I mean I play DPS so I'mma be real.

I don't stay alive within I don't stay alive for like a minute. I just die in like two seconds every time I play BG anyway. So I don't personally I don't really pay attention to boxes too much. Sounds like a skill issue. It does daggers. I just can't go >> stealth like cube blocking. >> Yeah, exactly. Just stand still and cube block. That's what my coach does. No, but I think like the last the last time I was here, I mean I was I mean honored to be asked to to rejoin, but I think like

we had a few discussions, right? and the other content creators and Tikico kind of opened up my eyes to uh to to certain I mean we were talking About server merges for example in the last round table and Tiko just asked me a question like back and it was like how do you think about this and it kind of opened up my eyes and I think like for the casual player do they really need to read what a buff means isn't it nice to be a casual player just running around chucking boxes and then you

just get something and you feel giga powerful I I think it adds a cool random element. I don't know. I I >> maybe >> I I I think like for a player that might know a lot about the game or that I wouldn't necessarily say care cuz I don't think it matters what skill level you are at, but I think everybody cares when they're playing a game to have a fun experience. Um but I think the randomness one, it it uh you don't have to get congested areas. You could have small events that are happening

on the map Like maybe a certain buff spawns or a little mini boss that spawns that you could kill so that the whole team gets I don't know like something whatever like >> yeah something like that. What what do I know? Uh but but I think the randomness at least in my at least in my opinion I I feel like the randomness of it is fun but I do think furious onslaught is a bit too powerful. But other than that >> can I say something sir? Um the I there's one buff like I'm again once

Again I'm not super against the boxes. I just think small things I like to talk about that no one talks about. Um the the FL what is it called? The the radiant buff where you get three of the the pieces and you turn into the the light dude. >> Um can we remove the flashbang? I swear I every time I get it I freak out and I GO A FLASHBANG like CS GO flashbang and I get I'm going to have a seizure bro. I'm going to have a seizure. I swear. Please. Especially if you play

on HDR, it's like just boom blast with your whole set. >> When I first when I first played Battlegrounds and I got flashbanged, I thought my screen broke or something. I was so confused. I was like, "What the hell just happened?" >> Yeah. >> Um, so we talked a bit about the catch-up buffs, but what about the point capping debuff? Do you feel like that's Had a meaningful impact to it's not just two tanks spamming each other on the point hoping one of them gets it, then the other one gets it? Like have other players

do you feel have had the opportunity to actually impact tanks who are trying to cap or is it not really helping you? >> I think for this one Invol might have have the best answer, right? Cuz >> that's all he does. >> Yeah, like tanks is probably the only One that's like usually cap in a lot of cases. But I So what I from what I know it's just reducing CC rest, right? If I'm not mistaken, from the when you cap when you cap something, it reduces your own CC res. >> Yeah. And it affects

the time it takes to cap. No. >> Where am I off on that? >> But does it reduce evasion? Does any of you guys know? Cuz >> no, >> if it doesn't reduce evasion, then probably the issue of like people just capping with each other, it's still going to be the same, right? >> Yeah. cuz >> I mean the only experience I've had with it since I'm not capping it myself is that the tanks that I have been playing with cuz I played both last week and this patch as well, right? Um they haven't had

any issues like they cap, somebody gets them off it, they get a Debuff, they just try to recap it, it goes a bit slower. It's like but but it it hasn't been really that >> Yeah, I would say it's still kind of the same. Yeah. Yeah. But I wouldn't uh it would be invulnerable who has to either test it or cuz he's he's the one on he's the one on capping duty. >> So I'll I'll be honest, guys. I am so tired of capping duty. I've been doing it the past few months. Ever since the

patch came out. I'll be honest. I didn't Touch capping. I've been playing head chopper recently because I like killing people. Um so I've posted playing great sword head chopper. That's been so OP. I'm not going to lie. Um, but yeah, I've been going around killing people and I haven't touched a cap. And then people usually get angry because I'm a tank and I'm not capping and they they think I'm griefing and I'm like, "Bro, I've been capping for the last 3 months. Let me let me kill some people for once. Holy." Um, no. So, I

wouldn't I honestly I haven't tested it, but the um I honestly think there's something that needs to be talked about uh when it comes to tanks and capping and just tanks in general, which I think has to do more with the balance, which I don't know if we want to talk about right now when it comes to SNS or maybe a little bit later. Um, >> good effort. Go ahead. >> Okay. So, now a lot of people have been talking about tanks in the community and They want them nerfed and all this stuff. And I've

had I've had my uh I've definitely brainstormed a bunch of stuff and tried to figure out how you can nerf a tank. That's fair. That won't affect them too much when it comes to like ZVZ compared to small scale cuz um if you make them killable in small scale, they're going to die in ZVZ so fast that they're useless all of a sudden. You know what I mean? Um so, you got to think of all different types of content When it comes to balancing. people just think of just battlegrounds. There's there's more than just battlegrounds

in the game. Um, but the I think the big thing that would be probably a good nerf for SNS is actually so uh with SNS you have an innate evasion towards CCs in the game. So, >> um, the only CC you don't have is weaken. You can't like >> evade have a chance to evade weaken. >> Yeah. Shield block. Yeah. So, shield Block um >> that's why people a lot of people build shield block pen when especially when it comes to like tanks. so they can hook other tanks, so they can CC other tanks. I

honestly feel personally a good nerf would to be actually remove the CC like shield block evasion from SNS. Make it so they can get stunned like other players. Um, make it so they can get CCD by other players. I think that's actually I think when it comes to Nerfing a tank, um, it's either looking at, you know, increasing the, um, uh, the cool down of counter barrier, which is one thing. um you could um remove the whole CC portion so you can actually get stunned without having a chance to miss cuz I think it's not

really fun um to to miss that target. I'll talk more about that later. Um but I also think stuff like for example I don't know how rampid it is on EU um but bark um is so overpowered. I want to be completely Honest, like >> it's so overpowered. It's created the meta since tier 2 to tier three of the clumping meta. Able to hook four targets to a clump. Um those targets are basically dead when they're in the clump. Um and that's why a lot of people, especially like on the high end NA guilds, went

huge collision resistance because ball work, it's literally just ball work. That's the problem. Um and also morale boost, for Example, the fact that it is affected by ball work. So each person that is chained reduces your cooldowns. Um I think there's I think ball work is actually a huge issue and also everyone uses it in their um heroic SNS like everyone uses it. No one uses other stuff basically besides a few uh people. Um there's a lot of things I want to talk about when it comes to tank. I'd be curious. I do agree that

moral boost I think it's one of the really big issue On tanks right now. I think with especially steel hearts, uh, the amount of collision you can do with the L pushes, uh, with the chain hooks pretty much, right, you're pretty much like bull work push, bull work push, tempest strike, it resets every single one of your cool down every time you collision, right? >> Yep. Exactly. But pretty much like is it's just I think uh personally it's one of the Issue that makes tanks really notorious right now because that's the only reason why they're

doing so much uh counter barrier counter barrier is perma up because of that one skill one passive also. uh it makes them perma like all of the other stuff that makes them super tanky that usually have a cooldown but then because of that whole collision thing and morale boost synergizes really well the cool down essentially becomes zero. >> So it doesn't matter it doesn't matter like if the cooldown is like nerfed or something as long as that passive is still there it's just going to stay zero. In the last round table, we talked a bit

about tanks as well. Like we were it was literally the same topic. We were discussing battlegrounds and then tanks became a whole thing. But I I I mean ju just to touch on that a bit like I think the uh shield block is is definitely an Issue. The fact that shield block pen doesn't work for back hits either. You have to correct me if I'm wrong, JJ, but that's something that is not working properly. Um, and that affects a lot cuz that kind of counteracts with with the whole thing. Then I think the biggest issue

isn't necessarily all of the buffs or or or that in it of its own. It's the fact that since late tier 2, tier three buff duration and cooldown reduction is just so high to the point where you can Have perma up time basically. Um, so I think like just going back, maybe we will see some new cappers. Maybe we will see some new builds if it was for the fact that you could actually kill a tank if they couldn't like just stand and cap the point regardless of if they get CCD or whatever, they can

just continue um doing that like forever basically. I think the only thing that can kill a tank right now if the stars align correctly is a staff that builds full Shield pen basically. But they they they'd have to build full shield pen and if all the stars align under the right circumstances, then potentially they could like kill a tank currently. >> I personally feel sorry I would cut you off there. I I personally I I think so I don't think the tankiness is actually the problem. >> Yeah, I a lot of people say like the

general casual community will say, "Oh, tanks are unkillable. I can't kill the Tanks, so that's why it's a problem." It it really in my opinion actually is the collision if they didn't have so much like CC to like basically I'm telling you like my my guild um FTP well it's disbanded now but FTP um a big reason why we won like every fight was >> shout out there a big a big reason why we um were so dominant was our tanks were insane. like we just collisioned everything off a cliff or like just collisioned Everything

into a clump and then everything just died. Um cuz we were just the best at it. Our tanks were insane. Um if you have very good tanks, especially in GVG, it's just so dominant. Um in my opinion, >> yeah, so in my guild like old Sin Ara backto-back tournament winners, um we think that they are super No, I'm just kidding. No, but um I mean sure I mean I'm I we will agree to disagree cuz uh at least In EU we might be building differently but I I think that um shield shield block and uptime

of uh uptime of counter barrier and all of that is just too strong at the moment and there's nothing that can kill a tank. >> Yeah. Um, so it could it could depend on how you're building, right? NA versus EU, like how you're building. >> I mean, um, >> it's the same issue as like again moral Boost is basically the core of it. We I kind of like went through with some of the people even like some of the uh meta people that has like played like a lot of the meta pretty much like morale

boost is kind of like the core problem even with the perma devo that we have in T2 problem. Even with the perma um >> what do you call that? counter barrier. It's all because of that one passive. Pull work and that passive. You essentially just pull people, lower your Cool down, pull people, lower your cool down, and then like you just have this ridiculous problem of like perma divo, perma um counter barrier. >> Counter barrier. Yeah. >> And then perma like the one thing that gives you HP or something. I forgot what >> it makes

it it honestly makes it so you don't actually have to put a lot of cool down in your tank build because the morale boost is carrying the cool down. If you actually build a lot of cool Down, it's counterintuitive because it the percent how percentages work, right? So people just build the way the way to actually build tank is build a [ __ ] ton of buff duration with a little bit of cool down and you're going to have just crazy ability usage. >> Collision chance just put it through the roof. 3k have it up

>> collision and then morale boost will support >> and then moral boost will just support Your cool down instantly. Yeah, I think that one passive is kind of overtuned in my opinion right now. >> It is. And like so back in T1, uh there was I don't remember if this is like a thing cuz I was like pretty casual in T1, but I remember tanks at one point tanks were squishy at T1. And then a lot of people have complaints about tanks being squishy. And I'm pretty sure there was some rework around it that makes

tanks like tanky afterwards. But then I Do think it's fine for tank being tanky. I think tanks should be like uh not like unkillable, but I do think that they should be tanky, especially in a ZV setting because if we have a ZV setting, which is essentially the core of Tournament of Liberty, right? Uh ZVZ, castle sieges, if we have squishy tanks that is killable by let's say me, a gladiator, like pretty much like I can kill him, then we have a core problem because what's the point of playing a Tank when you can just

play like when you can just get one shot by a gladiator or something? Like it's a problem. like it's I don't think the tankiness is an issue. Uh I do think though the perma up time of some of the skills are pretty much the one that makes them like really really nuts right now. Especially with buffing their teammates just like being a menace for like make all the DPS can't play pretty much like with bull work. You just chain them every like what 5 Seconds and then just >> it's not fun. It's not fun. >>

Yeah. It's it's just it's just the whole thing. And then because of that, because tanks is super overpowered, having too much DPS is a grief in a GVG setting, right? You don't want to have too much DPS cuz basically if you if your DPS got pushed off a cliff is equal to the mess dying, right? It's that's why the whole meta shift that become like becoming like 22 or is like the only thing that We want in the GVG setting. It's all because of that like collision thing, right? It's not necessarily because of the tankiness.

I would say >> that's that's my opinion though. >> Is it different on EU? Because like I agree with Ji who so you're saying it's a little bit different on EU. >> Yeah. I mean in in on EU tanks are not dying like I can't remember the last time. But then again I play a lot of GVG content right like war games 48v48. So It is a bit different. >> Um and I mean I I can still I mean I have clips from my streams where where where 20 people that are optimized welleared like uh

bashing on a tank. there's like 20 versus one tank and he's living for like 40 50 seconds just cube blocking cube blocking Q and >> just popping all of his buffs all the time and then yeah as you said I mean I'm not a tank right so I don't know so I'm trying to be a bit reserved here When it comes to yapping too much cuz I'll leave that to invulnerable and you you guys know more about it but yeah that's just our general feeling like tanks are not dying in in war games and that

didn't always used to be the case and I do think that shield block pen uh at least the back hits does play a certain part of that. >> I do agree. Yeah. Um >> Yeah, that definitely plays a big part. >> And I do agree. I I I don't want tanks To be unkillable, but I also don't want them to fold over. I want there to be a window where you can like where they're just weaker where you can actually kill them because at least in a GVG setting and overall for large scale as well

tank is such a core pillar of a group like with the defensive cooldowns and all of that. Um so when a tank dies it affects the whole group and it it makes the flow of a game both large scale and small scale um a lot more fun and interesting I feel like. So it could be NA versus EU, how we play tank, I guess. >> I mean, it's just two different thing, right? I would say the state of EU right now, it's a lot more war games from what I heard. >> And the state of

NA, there was still some Moonstone and Riftstones. I would say >> I think NA is still uh we just recently pick up War Games again, but for quite a long time, I think it was just a lot More like Moonstone and Riftston fights more than like war games, especially after ever since the tournament ended, right? We do some >> That's why I love these round tables because it's like we get to know like we get to learn how it works in different uh >> different jump in here with a question if you don't mind. I've

heard uh >> there's this unending debate. >> How tanky should a tank be? I mean I Think that's the real question, right? Uh keep hearing some people say it's okay to be tanky. Some people say they're too tanky. >> I hear Ju say, "Oh, well a tank shouldn't die to one gladiator." Cool. I hear Zach say, "Well, the tank's not dying to 20 people. That's cool." So, when we say tanks should be tanky, I mean, what do we mean about that? Is that uh you know, what do you think is acceptable when you say I

think tanks Should be tanky? What's an acceptable way to visualize that in your mind? >> I I would say have a weak window, but then that's because counter barriers perma up right now. >> Um >> Yeah. So your view is they should be very difficult to kill with cooldowns, but there should be windows of time where >> that's and the only like Ji who said and was talking about a bunch morale boost Is the reason why that's not a thing. You're actually super squishy when you have no cool downs off. Like you can actually squishy

if they're if they don't have like that little shield around them. But that's that's pretty much the only thing that's pretty much like >> you can't really CC them once they have that. You can't really like play around with it. >> For me who who's not what what does Morale boost do? And for everyone watching, maybe everybody doesn't know. >> Um, morale boost. When you collision a target, it will reduce your overall cool downs. Um, >> I forgot how much >> certain percentage. I forgot the exact percentage. But the problem is uh because of ball

work, the tier 2 weapon, which hooks four people when you check out a hook, every hook that hits a target reduces the those cool downs Basically. So you're able to just keep hooking hooking and then you're red, you're doing so much CC and reducing all your defensive cool down so you're unkillable. Um that's what moral base is doing. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yep. That's pretty much it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. While we're talking about tanks and how they're kind of important to groups, I'm going to slightly take us Back to battlegrounds. We we'll come back

to GVG in a little bit, but I want to talk about battlegrounds. And I would say probably one of the most debated topics, at least one of the most debated topics that I see, which is uh whether you should be forced to solo queue or whether group Q should be allowed in battlegrounds. Uh and I just want to hear thoughts from you all about that. >> So I would say with the recent update, >> even if cuz I I play a lot of solo BGs. I uh I do sometimes queue with my uh my statics,

but then if they don't want to like play, I kind of want to see the experience of like solo player. So, I kind of have those two insights pretty much. I do uh recognize once we have this new update that the static like problem, which is like if they have a static then they just like spawn camp user pretty much. It's a little bit uh less I would say I see a little bit Less because um again if they just spawn camp at us there's just a lot more people with us with just coming out

of spawn with this 20% debuff on PvP uh PvP damage sorry 20% buff I would say right less less damage they they're getting and then more HP that they're having they're able to push them with just pure numbers which was not a thing before uh like if you have like a full static on your spawn waiting for you. There's not Really there's nothing really you can do as a soul player, right? You're just pretty much getting free farm until until the the end of the game. So, there's been a lot of like before the update

of the battleground buff, there's been a lot of issues with like oh uh the game's ending with like 100k to like 10k points or like 100k to 5k. I'm g be honest as a streamer I kind of hate in that war game even in the winning side or the losing side because there there's Nothing you can do like I'm just going to be streaming the game hitting boxes if if we're winning or I'm just going to be getting expand cam if we're losing right but with the recent update I would say uh I don't I

don't think you guys adjust anything with the matchmaking right but I'm I'm pretty sure I've seen even with statics on the other side there's still a way to push back the with some of the buffs pretty much. Yeah. But uh I would say the problem I think with forcing party and solo queue is if you force a party Q to like let's say oh uh let's have a whole lobby of like party cues. The only issue with that is the reason why rank PGs aren't an issue right now. >> Rephrase the question. It's not should

there be separate cues, but rather should the one existing queue be solo only or continue to allow full groups. Uh I I do think I mean my personal opinion I I think you should keep the like play together part cuz I think in the end of the day TL is just a game that you play with like a bunch of your pe like friends a bunch of your static even though like yeah it's going to be a little bit bad on the solo Q side but if you get rid of the way you play together

with your friends I think that's pretty much the only thing that makes people don't want to cue that game mode. they Don't want to cue the specific topic because they just they just want to play with their uh folks in the end of the day. In the end of the day, a lot of people just I don't think they essentially uh want to just like win. I mean there are some people that want to do that, right? But a lot of people just most of the casual people, most of the player base I would say

is they just want to like oh they they got off work, they just want to play with their folks And >> have some fun have some fun bgs in the end of the day, right? So I would say if you remove that part, >> it's going to cause like a really big issue. I think if you queue like if you just remove like everyone solo >> cuz that's essentially what rank is, right? Rank is basically everyone solo. But then because nobody want to queue rank because people just want to play with their folks still. So

it ended up It ended up rank being like ended up like basically I don't know about in EU but in NA I don't think there's anyone that Q is ranked BG right now. No, we were we were like EU was was uh was gaming. Tiko is probably here. Let me look through the data over here now. But E EU was actually popping off. Like I think the majority was playing at least the people I know were playing ranked um just gave a competitive edge. I I do agree with Yo. I think this is One of

those things where it's like hard to please everyone cuz like it might be a bad experience. Like I know for a fact like I I've seen it on on like when we're chilling just on Discord just talking and somebody's streaming their BGs and it's like a tank uh DPS and an Oracle and they're just blasting the whole lobby basically. So I mean I I've seen it happen but then on the other hand like if they didn't get to play together um >> they're not going to kill. >> Yeah. Maybe it wouldn't be as fun. Uh

but but it's a it's a very hard question to to answer to because I think it's >> Yeah. I I don't think anyone will like somebody will be unhappy let's say. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So, like realistically, um, Front of Liberty in my opinion, and I don't think enough people talk about this, but I think one of its actual best things or like uh what's what stands out differently to Other MMOs especially, is how the group play matters so much, especially in competitive play, like statics and knowing how to play together. It's

so important. So, um, this game thriving off classes like buffing each other, like especially like healers buffing DPS, uh, tanks buffing, you know, DPS, healers with DVO and Bastion and all that. I think um, group play is extremely strong and like way stronger than playing solo. That's why I think This game is way more of a uh, a group play type of game. So, when you bring group play uh, when you play a group play type of game and you bring these groups into BGs, it's a little overpowered. Um, but I do agree with Joo

a little bit. It's a little less. It's I still think if you have statics or on the enemy team and your team doesn't have it, you basically lose from my experience. But, um, I don't know. I I used to have a Uh like an 80% win rate when I used to play with groups, but then I played solo I play solo from now on. Now I have like a under 50% win rate. Like I'm losing more than I win. Like I'm not even >> Sounds like you're tearing you. Somebody was going to >> What about

uh do you think that it needs to be full teams of six though? I mean, what is there a middle ground anywhere? >> Full teams of six. Can you describe more on that? >> I just mean like queuing with friends. Does it have to be allowing you to queue as a full static or can there be some sort of middle ground? Um, I mean, now you could probably I mean, if you if you want to have a middle ground, I'm not saying it needs to be this way, but you could probably split it up to

be like either solo or like trio Q, so you can queue as three cuz I think that most structured statics will probably want to have a tank and a DPS and maybe a healer. Um, so I mean, just to find a middle ground, yes, that could work. Um, but I think it had to be it would have to be either like solo, duo or as three. Then maybe six can be a bit overpowering. I I think if you go in as a trio, you can still especially with the recent changes to the balancing which I

agree with what invulnerable said earlier. I think both like that change was really good to like when you're losing you get the buff. And I, As I mentioned before, I also think the slight nerf to it was really really well balanced. Um, I I think like TrioQ wouldn't be too overpowering. Um, in my opinion is fine. I do agree. >> I mean, I watched them stomp that lobby, but I think the rest of the people in that lobby were stomping as well. So, it wasn't just like they were hard diffing everybody solo, but the the

whole team was doing fine. >> I think so. I think the biggest Difference from my experience personally when it comes to group play is if the DPS has an oracle or not basically the difference of the difference of the like when I see an expo with a giant white shield running around and I I I can't do anything as a solo player. I'm like bro I'm going to die if I I go for this person at all. It the difference between having a healer or oracle on your team is just insane. Um I think that's

the biggest difference when it comes to Group play from my my experience. So, um, >> well, you bring up, I mean, two topics that maybe we should touch on. One is, how do you feel about the recent changes to bonus damage? Do you think that's had some impact on what felt like uh maybe people feeling that a class was too overpowered, too bursty with no real counter uh in crossbow or scorpion, I guess, specifically? Um, how do you feel those changes have landed? And then on The flip side, you know, we've been seeing more discussion

coming up about oracles in particular. Um, so just I just want to hear y'all's thoughts on those two topics. >> Uh, you want to go first, Zack? >> I mean, I I I think the changes were really good. Personally, I'm super happy. Well done. There is no more inconsistent quick fire uh like kills, just people blasting you. I mean, at least again, we're playing a lot of GVG Content and we're watching, we're doing VOD reviews hours on end during the nights, right? Um, and from the VODs that we see, the crossbows that are thriving right

now are the crossbows that are using their full toolkit properly. Um, it's not revolved around bonus damage particularly. Um, so the the changes I think uh you kind of hit the mark uh at least for what the goal was with the nerf and and according to the feedback that you had received. Um So yeah, I think it's in a healthy state. >> Um okay. So now I'm not an expert on expert you could say. Um >> me neither. >> And I think I think in general >> they're they're consistent like the the consistent overall burst.

They used to have just constant burst on you. Um that's gone which is fantastic. Great. Great change. >> But um I don't know what this is 100% But Thundercloud bombing is oneotting people. >> Yeah. >> It's I'm I'm not even as like a full tank. >> Who knows? >> As a full tank there is um I'm like shot calling or whatever and then some random expo goes in the ball hits me with a bunch of stuff. He's kit and thunder clouds me and I'm instant dead. I'm like what just happened? I don't know what Just

happened. Sure. Oh, he finally killed a tank. Woo. But like I the thunder clouds. I don't know what's happening 100% in direction, but man, that feels so broken how much burst that is. Maybe you guys disagree. Um >> I'll give you a EU approved tank build so that you won't die to a thundercloud by G. >> No. So, so I think there's some I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but there's something wrong with Thundercloud bombing. Uh I think I've >> it is confirmed. I I have talked to some of the exposers and

they're saying that it does pretty much something different even in PvE. Uh tricle bombing is doing basically twice the damage than it was uh used to do. But again, I I don't know what's causing it. Uh but I would say overall the changes to bonus damage, it definitely felt uh better as a DPS cuz I used to just die from like quick fire with lightning infusion and falling Flower. Oh, >> those three passive are just like >> lining I don't even care I don't even reach that like they don't even need to turn bomb me

I'm just that uh 40k HP glad by the way but yeah so uh that's gone like I completely see that as like pretty much they like the bonus damage I think nerf pretty much has to do a lot with that uh in which I think it's still good cuz I think scorpion should not be like I don't I think the update should Kill Scorpion necessarily, right? >> Yeah, >> I think the update should make Scorpion to actually do their thing in order to kill a person, >> which uh technically right now it's doing I I

would say right now it's in uh I wouldn't say like the best balance state, but it's way better than it was before. Way way better. Way way better. There there was a there was a video from a fellow content creator that was uh Looking real dapper in the first round table with hat and everything who put out the video in regards to the thundercloud which explains it in depth but there is some something with the lightning is it lightning infu I don't know what it's called like when you skill tree the exactly when it gets

up to 20 stack I think it does >> yeah lightning infusion >> yeah lightning infusion right I think it does like 21 times the base damage. So Like let's say you have 350 base damage. It's just multiplies that with 21 cuz it's some weird calculation with how the lightning infusion stacks work after you pop thundercloud and then it basically hits like two three times and it just blows people up. Um so apart from like that part when we're talking about like the scorpion in specifically like just the thundercloud thing needs to be looked at for

sure. That is like currently that is gamebreaking across The board. But the changes that were made to bonus damage were great. I I think you hit the mark. I feel like crossbows are still powerful when they are using their toolkit properly. Um um and yeah, it's just it's just a skill thing right now. So >> yeah. >> Cool. >> And what are you all thinking about Oracle? >> I hear, you know, I have to say I hear a Lot of complaints about Oracle. very similar to what uh Invulnerable just mentioned. Oh, I can't kill anything

cuz there's an oracle there, >> you know. So, what are y'all's views on it? True or not true? >> Um, do you have windows where you can attack? Like, you know, what are your feelings? >> Oh, I would say this. There's been a lot of people there's been a lot of speculation in the community saying that Okay if we nerf Oracle then DPS will actually build defense now and they're they're going to reduce TTK basically because defense are because the DPS are doing defenses now right like either they built me evasion or they built endurance

or something I would assure 99% of the player base that all the top players are not going to build defense the meta even though there even though if there is no oracle people will still build glass cannon. Uh people will just Like the TTK is just going to be higher with that Oracle. And like I've seen a lot of the Reddit posts saying that, oh remove Oracle, remove Oracle. But >> like if there is no Oracle, the TTK will just be insane right now. I would say in the in the current state of the game,

I would say secret just can't help you. >> Sorry, man. >> No, no, no. This is It's time. It's time getting that Mariah Carey feel. So, Why is Seeker not healing? Like, it it get it got too nerfed. Seekers got too nerfed. And then to counter that, you got more orbs and you got more wands. And there is currently an issue with distortion veil stacking if you have different skill levels. So basically, one healer can have a distortion veil on level four and one healer can have a distortion veil on level five and you can

basically infinitely stack. And it's the same with blessed barrier. So in Most parties right now where you're running two orbs and one seeker in like in competitive GBG, you have one seeker cuz they don't have any shield health cuz they don't get upgraded cordi wand because we're useless. So they we have them like us are playing level three shield uh blessed uh uh not blessed barrier invincible wall and then you have one of the oracles playing it on level four, one of the oracles playing it on level five. In my mind as a healer Myself,

the active mitigation, right? Like it should be a secondary mitigation. Shield should be a secondary mitigation. But if you want to dial down the way it works, first you would have to fix the way distortion whale works, that's number one. Together with with how shields work and how they synergize depending on the level that like they shouldn't be able to stack. That's number one. you would Have to dial down certain which I am so happy because I've said this on my stream like you you in the recent update to bonus damage you found a core

issue a core fundamental issue and you fixed it and it actually affected the game instantly. I'm so happy about the direction that it's going. Yeah. Um but you would have to dial down damage overall because you cannot nerf shield and keep the same TTK on certain abilities such as Thundercloud for Example. And once you do that, right, that will allow a seeker's heals to actually be useful. So that's the way you kind of balance the oracle situation out. You could dial it down, not have the shield stack, make DPS do less damage so that the

healing for from seekers, you would have to dial up seeker healing because seeker healing is like my toolkit right now looks complete. I don't know what I'm playing at this point, but it's uh there's a lot Of issues. It's so hard to say. Is it too overpowered? Yes. Does it need to get nerfed? Uh yes. But can you just nerf it off the rip? No. You would have to fix other stuff as well. >> Yes. >> Um that that's my take on it. >> I would say a lot of people just saying, "Oh, once they

nerf once they just get rid of Oracle, people are just not going to build glass cannon anymore as a DPS." >> That's not That's not a good >> That's not true. Let me Okay, I need to I need to explain something and I think this is a core fundamental issue with the game and I think Zach, you actually hit it pretty well on the head here. So, um >> what is Seeker mainly good for? Like what are their heals good for? I honestly feel like they're pretty good for tanks only. Like I like they're like

they're not really >> high HP uh user glad. >> They're not really like for DPS. I feel like the cleanse is there for DPS, but it's like mainly the uh the healing is only good for tanks because they can survive for more than a second, right? Um and or that's why we put like I think we put like double oracles and like uh DPS parties, etc., right? Um and besides that, um I think the fundamental issue is that DPS have always been pretty easy to kill actually. Um, it's just, uh, the only way you could

make a DPS tanky was To build evasion. Um, every DPS used to go kind of evasion cuz everyone plays like dagger or something. There's a lot of issues involved with all this. Um, but I evasion as a stat is also a problem when it comes to all this because uh, DPS without evasion will basically die instantly. But these days, I feel like a lot of DPS can't build enough evasion really um because well, for example, it's an NA, they lose too much damage. So they don't want to build Evasion. Um they lose too much this,

too much that. And it's very hard to build evasion on some classes. Uh but evasion in itself is also a problem. It's also too OP as the SNS dagger shenanigan drama that's been happening recently. You guys know about the SNS dagger stuff. Um evasion is it's uh it's definitely a problem in itself. And I think there needs to be core fundamental changes to how certain stats work so TTK isn't always messy because from the Start of time the only thing that kept DPS alive back in the day was really D.VO and there's always been something

that kept DPS alive. So it's shield now. Before this it was DVO. Uh before this it was something you know it's always artificially buffing them to keep them alive in a way. Um, that's what I feel personally and I think there needs to be some number tweaks with how defensives work perhaps in this game or how how evasion Works. They need to, you know, remove evasion in my opinion from the game. I don't like evasion. I hate it. >> One thing I don't know if you guys have thought one thing that could fix this kind

of without really cuz it's like okay so where would you start? Like if I was NCOFT or if I was it would be like where where do you start? Like you get all of this feedback from everywhere. How do you dial it up? You dial it down. And I mean, you're always trying to make What you can, right? Like we're getting all these patch notes. Something gets dialed down, something gets buffed, something gets nerfed depending on community feedback and what they see, right? But I think one thing that we haven't really dabbled with is PvP

damage and PvP >> PvP stats. You're talking >> like PvP stats like those. It's like a workaround that could like kind of I guess just make it so that you Could dial stuff down, I guess. I don't know. Um I just feel like that's a stat like PvP damage and PVP damage reduction. It's like something that hasn't really um it it doesn't really fix the issue on a like on a singular level for each specific skill, but it would kind of be like a cheat code or a workaround, so to speak, to to >> to

Yeah. some sort, but like to kind of fix it. Uh because yeah, I mean I I do understand why a lot of people feel like Oracles are too overpowered because you can Yeah. for one stack shields. And I mean for me as a seeker, I'm going to be completely transparent. Uh it's been super demoralizing cuz I mean I love healing. I I don't want to be tied down to playing Oracle if I want to heal. And currently my heals feel too weak. That's number one. I I don't really feel beneficial. And it doesn't really matter

if I have three healing touch stacks or a flash wave or if I have grand aon Passive on my bow and I'm just popping nature's blessing. I can go full blast one thundercloud or one whatever or they don't have a shield cuz the the oracle messed up or something like that and they're just dead. So I mean >> I've swapped out my healing touch for arrow. I'm playing delu bow basically. I've swapped out my flash wave for flash arrow. I'm playing I'm not playing bless barrier. I'm playing valorous barrier. And it's like I'm basically a

buff bot. So the only heal I'm healing with and I mentioned this before is swift heal. And the only reason I'm doing that is because I want to give my DPS mana. Uh I mean occasionally it does save them, right? But I'm a I'm a buff bot now. I'm a little little buff kitten. >> That sucks, bro. That's honestly I'm I'm glad I'm not a secret player. Holy. No, but I mean like like the thing is I think a lot of seekers, including myself, like it's been a lot of fun Testing out new stuff, but

I I I miss healing. And I think it would balance the game in a way and make oracles feel less powerful if you first Yeah, as I said, were to fix the stacking of the shields and uh but you would have to reduce the TTK and other like you would have to dial down damage because otherwise everybody's just going to get blasted. Um, and then yeah, then maybe tweak seeker a little bit to make that useful, but I don't think that shields Should be the only mitigation that people rely on to survive. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Like I mean, like you said, Zach, uh, when they remove the shields, everyone's going to die instantly, right? But so that's what I think it's it's not really everyone keeps talking about shields and this and that, right? But I think there's just an actual core fundamental issue there, like the fact that people are dying instantly if they don't have a shield. like uh there needs To be a rework to defensives or something. Something needs to be fixed there. Um I don't have the absolute solution here. It's a bit more complex I think and we can

have a lot of conversation about it. But there needs to be a rework to defensives in the game or something. >> I think I would say the reason why Oracle is like very strong is just because Oracle don't need HP to work with, right? You can have a,000 HP DPS And an Oracle will just save that DPS instantly, right? >> Yes. But if if a seeker, you need your DPS HP pool to work around with it, right? If you're healing a target or a DPS that has like maybe like 50k HP, then you have an

HP to work around, that makes healing overtime actually worth. >> But since a lot of the DPS are the current meta is pretty much like dagger, right? A lot of them like crossbows are running like what 20k HP, 25k, not not Even 25k HP, I would say 20k HP, like 18. So the solution that's why Oracle feels a lot stronger right now is because Oracle don't need the base HP on the target to make their healing work >> whereas like uh seeker they HP right >> and that's the thing it should be the secondary mitigation

it should be the juice on top it shouldn't be the main >> cuz like there's a difference between actively healing uh HP pool and Mitigating damage and I feel like we lost that when we nerfed seekers to the ground. Yeah, I would say one way to do it is, this is just a maybe, this is just a suggestion, but if you do hots, then your DPS or something get increased base damage and then sorry, increase base defense cuz base defense as a stat is like I mean, we do have some, but I don't really know

how it works in like math like the numbers and all that. But let's say if we do like hots increases Base defense or like maybe uh damage mitigation that comes in like let's say if you're on hots you get maybe like 20% PVP damage comes in. I think that will open up like a better window and then you can nerf the oracle once you did that. >> But you can't just like buff the seeker and just not nerf the oracle cuz if that's the case then it's going to back to evil. I mean you you

would have to do like somewhat balancing across the I Mean it became pretty apparent like the direction I guess that NCOFT maybe wanted with Seeker when they changed like the wand passive that does increased healing right that got removed so it didn't affect uh the bow anymore because they went from healing to skill healing over time and shield health and all of that kind of stuff. Um, >> I think the num the number of hots are a little bit low right now, but I think it's fine. I think if you can like let's Say oh

like flash wave someone and the people that you flash wave get like let's say a,000 more base defense or like 2,000 more base defense then that will kind of like help the HP problem, right? >> Because you're not forcing your DPS to HP. >> I guessable tanks are unkillable if you do that, you know. >> No, if you go SNS, you don't get that Buff or something. >> Yeah. No, but now no, but you you have a lot of anti-healing like that that's that's another thing, right? Cuz like currently in the game, um >> I

do anti anti-healing shield is a lot less compared to anti-healing right now >> cuz who who can do uh shield health received like if you skill the thing into vampiric strike, you do uh and you pop that on a DPS for example, like the dagger um passive, right? and you pop That on a DPS, it doesn't affect the person that is getting shielded. So, the DPS will still get those amounts of shields, right? The only thing in the game right now, I mean, >> the bow is >> I think I did this with my community

the other day. I think we do have five around five heal cut. Correct me if I'm wrong. We do around like five or six heal cut and we have three shield cuts. >> So, I think that's one. >> Is it three? Is it Is it not bow and crossbow that has it? >> Bow and dagger. explain dagger has it. >> But dagger doesn't affect uh like >> Oh, I get you. I get you. Yeah, >> you get what I mean. Dag dagger affects uh shield health given, not shield health received. That's crossbow and um >>

but we do have a lot of like anti-healing still in the game that is like uh so so I think a lot of DPS would Be able to fiddle around with their builds and maybe in groups specifically you could have one that runs anti-healing. Uh but but you would I don't agree with seeker heals for example if you were to change oracle shields. Um I I don't think it is at a good spot right now. You would have to probably buff it with like 25 30% or something like that cuz like it's just way too

undertuned. Now >> there's like too little shield cut I Would say. >> Shield cut in the game. Counter play. Counter play. It's the better way to balance in my opinion is to have counter play towards um the shields which we don't really have much of. I think the best counterplay right now in my opinion to the shields is actually the dubo uh wardens. We have like wardens running in our guild that actually just restripping all their shields now. I think the best way for us to do >> SNS by the way. >> Yeah. Yeah. >>

Thank you. >> Warden is SNS by the way. >> As a EU player. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But question here. I've heard a couple comments now from multiple of you. You kind of slightly touch on a stat and then you say, "Well, I'm I'm not entirely sure how it works." And then you kind of keep going. Uh, so this is actually one of the topics I want to Bring up, which is like you've touched on what are the builds, is it glass cannon, and how do you build defensively for it? And I want to know

like what's your stance on the number of stats in game? Um, I think one of's like strengths is >> for sure being able to create your own unique builds at times and having that flexibility and being able to do some stuff that >> um is against the meta, but how do you Feel about the number of stats that exist in the game? >> My my opinion is I think there's like I think the stats have gone to weirdly crazy amount of levels in general numbers wise and there's so many different stats and stuff. Um, and

it's actually I I'm a build maker, so it's pretty fun for me personally to like test stuff on stream and mess around with builds and part. >> Yeah, there's so much variety of like Builds I can make for Crusader. I made like eight different builds for Crusader in like tier 2, for example. Um, and I tested all of them and I think that's awesome. But the problem is, um, with all this variety, especially in the kits of each weapon having, you know, multiple identities and stuff, it's it's awesome. It's fun. Uh it's a pain in

the ass to balance. Like I don't know how they set them they set themselves up for failure by adding so much variety, so Many stats, so many this. Like I don't know how you balance this game 100%. Um when there's just so much involved, I guess for me personally, that's what I think. >> So I would say ever since T1, we've been getting like maybe like I would say six more relevant stats around that number. We have heavy attack evasion, heavy attack damage resist, heavy attack damage, uh heavy attack damage, like those kind of numbers

are like getting Like pretty much we're adding more and more stats into the game, right? But uh I would say the problem is is that there is no like in-game calculator on like what the stat actually does. So let's say like even like me and one of my member of my aesthetic that was uh playing the game for like a long time already pretty much since the game was released. Uh we were debating about heavy attack evasion one year into the game. Like we like it's called heavy Attack evasion but then it's working like an

endurance versus crit instead of like evasion versus hit. Right. >> Yeah. It's different. Yeah. >> It's it's a little weird on the wording and I think a lot of people is actually like confused. That's why a lot of people like don't really know what to build, especially if they, okay, I have this resources. I have this like pet of ascension pretty much now. What do I do, right? Oh, let me go to a streamer or Like let me go to a guide maker. And then they see all the stats in Quasog and they just like

their their mind just went boom. Right. The the problem the problem is Jivo is that the difference between the top guilds and the casual players, medium guilds, is actually having gear swaps and knowing what your stats, like you said, actually do. Like, um, you know, the generic player that's new to the game, he may look at a build and say, "Yeah, I'm going to run this Build because the streamer recommended or whatever." But I play different builds dep like depending on who I'm versing. I'll change things depending on who I'm versing. The metas of your

servers change things um depending on your build. like maybe your your server has way more melee evation. You have to run more hits, for example. Um it's it gets really it's confusing as I don't even know how to explain to a new player how to build depending on their server Cuz it's depends. It's so difficult to build in this game and you have to have a lot of knowledge and practice in it. Um and a lot of like research in my opinion, which is awesome. I think that's an awesome part, but I also I think

it's a double-edged sword in my opinion. Um >> it's a it's a fun part on the endame part of it. It's a really like I would say it's a really high ceiling to get into as a beginner. >> Yeah, I I I think that's just generally generally that's MMOs, right? Like you there's just a lot to to to get into and there's a lot of different stats. And I mean to an extent I do agree and I see how it can be overwhelming. But I think that's part of our job as streamers, right? as well.

Like people come into our streams and they look or they look for build guys or they look for you. Like it's always been part of it. Um I don't necessarily feel like um like for New players that it is over. I do agree with yo though. It could be more descriptive. >> Yes, I'll see. >> In terms of like a just because then it doesn't really matter. I mean I guess I get that it's hard to to maybe implement a calculator but maybe just make it more descriptive, right? uh to the point where somebody could

figure it out. I mean, I I I feel more sorry for that case for new players cuz I mean, both New and returning players can basically not start or return to the game in my opinion uh due to heroic gear. I I think that that's a bigger issue when it comes to like creating a build or like what should I go for? What should I build? Cuz once you've done it and you you've decided like yeah, I'm going to go for this build. I saw a streamer do it and then yeah well luckily I have

15,000 Lucent cuz we drop Cordy stuff all the time or Delus Noah stuff and I get from My guild. Uh so I'm able to just swap it however. What tico? It's true bro. Just farming. Uh but but it's true but like for for the general player they're not able. I mean I have so many friends and I I had a guy actually today when I was streaming he was like yo I stopped playing in tier 2. Uh am I able to come back? Is it complicated to get into the new gear? He was literally asking

this question like is it hard to get into it? Like what what is the meta right now? Blah blah blah. And I told him like there's Path of Ascension. And Path of Ascension is amazing. It's really really good. It will get you started, get you sorted. Um and then you can just follow my build. He was a seeker. So I was like, you can follow my build. He or she. Um but I said uh the only hard part is the heroics. Uh I think uh that's I wouldn't say it's too much stats for a new

player to create builds. I would say you could add more description just so People understand what the difference are between uh the the different stats. But yeah, heroic is is an issue. >> Can I >> um at least in my opinion, I don't know what you guys feel like or what you've heard. >> I've got a very strong opinion. I'm probably one of the original people to have this very strong opinion. Um, so I made like a video uh a while ago talking About how a little bit clickbait heroics are ruining the game or whatever.

Um, I >> shot bro. >> No, no. So I No, I'm not like I made this before they made the the changes to the sync for example. So it was like it was like worse before. They made some good changes with syncing and stuff. So that's helped. Um, but I talked about how heroics were going to be really bad for the newer players coming in because it's so hard to catch up. It takes Months to like max out a heroic to even get your hands on your heroic setups and stuff. And what if you want

to play a second build? What if you mess up, right? Um and then the heroic traits, for example, are extremely expensive. Like, holy [ __ ] this na like 20k for like a perception trait or something. Just one perception. It's insane on some of the things. Um I think heroics need to be reworked in some way. I think they need to be more accessible and be able To change your build um depending on uh if you want to play like a different build because I think you we brought in the sync system to th Liberty

to like have variety of builds, right? That was the philosophy to to have a variety of builds cuz people love messing around with different builds. It keeps the game fresh. Um and people love that stuff, you know. Uh but the heroics have made it so it's impossible to really switch builds. Not impossible, but extremely Hard and way too timeconuming. um switch builds and that you could even add the unlock stone cost for example being way too high. 800 for a damn one swap. I need like a million unlock stones to fix one damn heroic here.

If I have two different builds now I'm freaking out here. I'm like I I need to wait like 5 months to get enough unlock stones to Oh, it's just insane. The this the progression the heroic system is good itself. The progression in my opinion is Is bad. I think the progression is very bad in my opinion. Yeah, >> I have spent like 2 maybe like 2.4k on lock stone switching my great store from hit to crit back to hit back to crit. >> You're such a freaking sword. >> It's It's a lot of unlock. >>

Just get a second sword, bro, at this point. >> I know. just uh in in when it comes to the heroics, I think Like uh you know, y'all are bringing up the cost to switch and stuff, but uh and and with gear in general, do you feel like there are some barriers to swapping gear because of how much goes into a single piece and therefore how hard it is to change to a new piece when you acquire it? You know, something like, I have a heroic ring, I've got it. Oh, I got the necklace. Maybe

I could try this other build, but I have to get these five other things ready to go for The necklace before it's up to par or or even just non-heroics. You know, you have traits, trait resonance, um other aspects like that. >> I mean, I think the the introdu Sorry, J to cut you off like but but the the introduction of like >> pretending like he is saying Jiu's name right the whole time or >> Yeah, but it's how am I saying it then? >> It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. >> Is it Jiu? The

accent is kicking in, bro. The accent. >> No, but that's that's the that's the Swedish Viking J. >> I don't mind. >> Okay, got it. >> No, bro. Uh, somebody in the in the YouTube comments will say it. Can this Zill guy just say it's going your your community is going to pop off. No, but like I I think when you added the uh tier three or Yeah, tier three gear into The material transmutation, at least I popped off. I had so many of the ascendant stuff. uh like the uh to not the ascended stuff

but to like uh what's it called? Help me out. >> I don't know >> that for Yeah, resonance. The resonance. Yeah, the resonant unlock stones. Thank you. >> Uh so so that was a good addition. I mean it's just the cost of it. I don't mind making the initial purchase, you Know, like I I I grind up, I spend those 800 unlock stones, and then it's unlocked, but then I would want to swap more freely in between. Um, it's like I remember like for example, when when we when we introduced uh Hyper Boost, there was

a few things that was really really good about it cuz like I it's 2026. The attention spam of people nowadays is like two weeks and that can infuriate me. Like I've yapped about this on stream so long so many times. It's like People expect content one week after major content is released. It's like Jesus Christ. Just play the game and be patient. Like they cannot just throw out content every day, right? But so but the thing is like we will always lose players cuz people have other stuff like but you want to have an influx

of people coming in as well right and that's the barrier right now I think in my opinion >> very isu we have we have people leaving the game for for not because the game is Bad or like whatever the case may be that happens in every game but the >> requirements to come back to the game the hyper boost was good like you got caught up you had the milestones progression was going really fast. I mean, there was issues with runes, they were still too low for those players. Artifacts. >> Yeah. Masteries, artifacts, like those

kind of stuff. There were still a few things that that the average player Didn't get. Um, and and again, the heroic uh system, I I think the addition of heroic weapons is amazing. I love it, and I think you should strive to unlock it. And I mean I remember your Tikico talk when we were like that when you guys were introducing it and you said this is not something we want you to achieve overnight. We want this to be a milestone in your progression as players. It will take a few months. Play the game, enjoy

it, and you will get There eventually. That's fine. But if I want to change something, I don't want it to take months again. Um, so I think that will help the people leaving getting replaced by an influx of new players cuz me personally, my DMs are getting spammed by my old friends are like, "Yo, I want to get back to the games. Do you guys need healer?" Oh, I don't have a heroic crossbow or my heroic crossbow cuz all of them are playing crossbow. Um, but like my heroic Crossbow is level two or something or

I don't have enough unlock trait on lock stone. So, I don't know how to fix it cuz I understand the vision and the idea of heroic and that it should be something you strive for, but it should also be easier to just swap around. And I know you did some changes, but I don't think it quite hit the mark yet. >> I don't know what you guys I agree. I agree to certain extent. I definely think you're in the right We're in the Right direction with the heroics. Um, we definitely need >> um Do you

even bring on the whole hyper boosting? I mean, the hyper boost um at least the path of ascension was pretty good. Uh for newer players, I always when people come in, for example, to my chat like yours, they want to come back to the game, but I'm I'm scared to gear up, you know? Like it I always tell them the gear is not the problem. It's always the heroics. And like I'll be honest With them, the heroics are I'm not going to bait them into whatever. Um I thought the heroics are going to be an

issue, but gearing itself is going to be pretty easy. I think I also glazed I glazed I made like a review of tier three early on and I glazed um you as all that saying that you did guys in you guys did a great job um making it so it's easy to gear up like all the normal pieces of super >> Yeah. Sorry I don't want to cut you but Credit where credit is due. Definitely if we compare between T1, T2 and T3 >> Yeah. every tier is just easier and easier to like pretty much

get your gear. >> Get into it. >> I would say the gear, the gear itself. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> Go on. No. Go on. Go on. >> Uh t uh tier two was I would say tier two. Um I mean >> it was it was fixed. There was some mistakes there like how the gear was released. Um just how you got your gear and stuff was a bit rough especially like you remember Oric Vanguard like everyone wanted that set but it was way too expensive, way too hard to get. Um, but in

tier three it's been amazing. Um, amazing in tier three incredible. Um, but even the Nebula accessories and all that stuff, a lot of them, not all of them, some like Exodus ones that are Pretty hard to get, right? Which I think that's fine. That's fine. >> I think um the majority of Nebula items are way easier to get as well, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. Um, from the, you know, get the boxes. Um, yeah, access to more boxes from um, you know, the Nebula vendor. I think the new boxes from

the Nebula vendor were very good. Um, so I think there's been some great changes towards all that, but man, the heroic system has been the only sore The only big issue in my opinion when it comes to gearing like like you said. >> Yeah. And and I think like if we want to like increase an influx of new players getting introduced to the game, you you need to address like chaos prisms, entropy shards, um like uh runes, artifacts, unlock stones, all of those kind of stuff even more on like hyper boost for uh for example

uh or just new returning players. Uh cuz it is still too undertuned. Uh mainly I should say I Mean the the unlock stones cuz that ties into heroic gear, the entropy shards and the like prisms as well, the chaos prison that also ties into uh but but apart from that gearing itself is is is is good. I think it's pretty straightforward. Path of ascension as I said and as all of us have agreed on is a great addition to a new or returning player. Um but yeah, runes, artifacts, um also uh just apart from that

other stuff tied to heroic. Yeah. >> Okay. I want to jump a little bit back more towards PvP specifically. It's a little bit of a broader topic, but >> for a while now, I would say we've been seeing in the community also something that's debated, which is open world bosses, specifically PDP open world bosses. Oh, >> to me it's a big topic, right? Because I think, you know, um, >> candidly, I think there is a little bit of people forgetting what they were like When they were there and the impact it has the general population,

right? I think it's very easy to see why the top three to five guilds on every server would like open world bosses, right? Um, >> I think it's harder to remember the impact it has on the general public. Um, but regardless, I'd like to hear, you know, y'all's general thoughts on what feels a little bit like a growing sentiment on bringing open world PVP bosses. >> I have a strong I have so so much strong opinions here if any of you guys want to go here first. Um, >> no, bro. Okay. Um, okay. So, I

I I been playing So, like I said before, I've been playing since like KR's release. I've been playing open world bosses for I don't know when you guys really started playing. I don't know if it was global, but I've been playing with them for a very long time. And there's been so many in a way iterations of arcs when It came to them because originally uh you know in KR you had alliances of 20 guilds versus alliances of 20 guilds in these the world bosses and the way that stuff used to work is the game

was changed massively in uh mostly in a very good way. Um, but I would say that so there was a patch in tier one for global. Um, and it was they expanded the areas of the boss arenas. Um, and I think that was the actual right direction in my opinion to actually go. Also, the fact that now alliances are two guilds instead of four guilds. Um, I I generally don't like the alliances in general. It's different opinions on it. I just don't I want it to be removed completely. We can go into that in a

little bit here, but the the fact that there's not like the problem with VOD bosses was the arena was small and um the there was these four guild mega alliances taking control and no single like casual play or casual groups could Even do anything against you know um that many people right um and I think if you made the the world boss zones like way larger you know you remove the alliance system it wouldn't be at least in my opinion it wouldn't be that bad or the problems that the world old world boss system had

because it wasn't perfect. People don't talk about the issues it used to have. It definitely had its issues. Um, but I I think the open world bosses and the feeling and The vibe compared to going in instance portal is there's a better vibe and it feels like when it was removed the soul of this game kind of got removed and a lot of people just didn't stop playing the game because there's I don't know that was uh something that was unique to the game I guess in a way. It just wasn't perfect. It could have

I don't know. Yeah, that's what I think. >> Uh, so I would say something regarding the open world bosses. I don't know if You guys like kind of tested this with abyss dungeon bosses cuz basically abyss dungeon bosses are pretty much like open world bosses, right? Kind of in a in a way. But I mean the walkway the walk back is just a long path. But I would say the the task on it resulted in like okay just one guild is probably going to be controlling it or like two guilds is probably going to be

controlling it right. I think when conflict poses back though I don't know if it necessarily Going to be the same but I would say it's going to be having like around the same impact I I would say with the current like pretty much um abyss dungeon bosses which pretty much one or two guilds are going to be controlling it. I mean, it it might be it might be gonna be a good fight and all that, but I mean, it just depends, right? I mean, we changed the way peace works, too, compared to like what it

was before when we open world bosses. So, peace has been Easier for people to get loot and all that. So, I don't know if people actually going to be complaining if we bring back open world passes and tested it cuz basically right now we have guild portals, right? I mean, guild portal is kind of the same. it has the same impact on like the top guilds econ economy because they're still going to be getting it in in in a sense, right? So yeah, that's just my opinion. I don't think it's going to change like the

way The economy work. I mean, it's going to be more content in my in my opinion, but >> I I personally I kind of don't know what's going to happen with like the current sentiment. >> It's such a mixed feeling. I I yeah, I think I I thought I knew what I wanted because this was discussed previously as well and then Tikico just asked me an open question back and it just made me rethink my whole existence. I I'm on I don't know. Comment below now, but I I genuinely don't know. Like I in my

mind, yeah, sure it would bring back some it would bring back content. Yes, but you would most likely have strong alliances >> taking over. >> Taking over. And I mean I I guess that's one of the reasons. I mean there's no uh it's cause and effect, right? I'm pretty sure that NCOFT's original idea was what you were so passionate about invulnerable, having that sense of open World PVP, having that aspect of the game, and then through continuous feedback from the community, which I could only assume they made changes to how that system works with the

peace portals and the guild portals and whatnot. So, I I it's a super hard topic, Tiko. I'm I'm sorry. I cannot give you more. It it's it's so complex to answer. >> I I really do think though like if you don't have alliances, it won't be um Like it won't be such a problem cuz like the difference between like let's say 70 people versus 240 people or whatever, right? It's it's crazy. Like at least you have a chance by bringing a few different groups or smaller guilds actually have a chance to do something. Um, and

I just think the the main issue in the past and a lot of the issues in the past have been resulted in my opinion to the alliance system being a problem. I mean, it was all a lot was a Lot of the complaints and just everywhere. Um, the alliance system being a problem and it used to be way worse back in the past because I don't if you guys knew, but back on Korea, um, all the like conflict events and everything used to be open world and any alliance could control everything. Like all the like

content was controlled by alliances basically. It was Oh, I'm glad they changed that. Um, and I really like open world content. Like >> I do like open world content, too. I agree. I think a lot of people do. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can probably that it is a fun. Yeah. But like Shadow Alliances will become a open world arc bosses doing. >> Open world arc boss is probably the most fun that like most of these people had because actually >> experiencing some of the concerns you think could come up if you do open

world field bosses. I mean, arc bosses are Essentially open world boss fights. So, >> I mean, I'm not saying this to brag, right? But no, but >> you're not saying to brag, but your guild, >> but No, but we do like you you wanted the the honest opin and I think that would be the case. And it's not just our guild. I mean, we're not the strongest guild. We we our our guild is currently like a guild that's trying to find our way. and we're are like a mix match of Three different guilds um right

now. So, we're definitely not the strongest guild in EU right now. There are a lot of amazingly strong guilds, but I I think the the situation for them is similar. Um but but currently um I mean the the past arch bosses, it is like 95 90 to 95% us and then maybe the the guild that we are allied with um for for the open world uh arch bosses. And that's been the case for the past. >> I don't know the situation on NA, but But that's at least in EU. And I would assume that the

other guilds have similar in EU. >> Let me be honest. Um G J would also understand the state of NA PvP right now, especially with our recent situation at that stone fight. >> Um so I'll be honest. Um NA East at least the PVP scene for competitiveness is pretty dead. Um, fair enough. >> Uh, our like my guild FTP, we had to disband. It's a long story, but we had To disband because there's no one wants to fight us. There's no there's no opponent that all of the a lot of the good players have stopped

playing or just randomly playing casually cuz they didn't want a CTA, for example. Um, so EU is definitely way more competitive at the moment than NA than it used to be. Like, uh, so it's pretty rough uh for competitive PvP players because I don't know, everyone just wants to play casually. or maybe you know Joo more Than that like the NA is scene because I'm personally from the highest end right of NA so I wouldn't I don't know what's happening on >> uh I would say one of the other thing too is the idea open

world bosses is like nice right and all that it's just there's not enough guilds in like to participate in that thing right >> sure >> so how do we bring back like okay how do we like improve guilds how do we like Bring back guilds one of the core issues I think one of the very very big reasons why TNL is in this current state. I think it's because of the duty as a guild leader. It's way too much. I think I think being a guild leader in TNL is one of the most like exhausting

thing. Not just loot contribution, not just like loot dro managing people, uh loot counseling, uh I would say like all of all of those stuff is just like really really difficult. >> It's terrific. I would say being in the top guild is kind of easier because I mean you just get all the thing all the loots, right? you get a lot of the loots, people just like, okay, like go through the list one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, right? I think on the losing side of it, like on the pretty much like on

the c more casual guilds experience, if they want to try to become competitive, it's just harder because what will happen is, okay, we Just got, let's say, okay, we just got this loot that we got from peace and then we give it to like one of the like DPS or something, we manage it and then all of a sudden that DPS just went to the top guild because they just have the arch that that is required to be in that top guild, right? >> All the drama. Yeah, I mean it's just I would say one

of the big issues too is uh when a guild leader quits the game usually what happen is there's an influx Of players that also quits with that guil leader. >> I think this is like one of the major thing that's been in is because like okay I play with with I play this game with this guild that's why I'm logging in >> the guild disbanded >> now there's no reason for me to log in again. So that's I think one of the strong thing about Tiano is actually the community side of it. I think the

Community side of it is one of the I would say one of the stronger side one of the really positive and strong side of the game. I think we just need to make like some sort of adjustment with like being a guild leader. I would say maybe let's say like loot dro instead of like clicking one by one if people are not there to like allow people to like pretty much like get their loot. I think you should make Yeah. something easier. >> The new t real quick thing. I was going To add a quick

thing. Uh new changes to like each piece of like loot goes to the distribution thing. Like the arch boss resources. You know what I'm talking about? You know, like the >> shards the shards. It's all individual. I feel sorry for the loot. I'm not a loot dro person. I wasn't. I feel sad for the person that was. That was horrible. >> It's taking like an hour every time there's like a loot dro like and then You have like three arch. We have like four arch points in a week and then it's it's it's tough being

like >> but if you Yeah. And and that's the thing like going back to the whole open world discussion because I do agree but that all ties down that's the funny part of like when when you need to fix things it usually ripples and fixes other things as well. So in the current state because there's not enough competitive guilds or there's not enough competitive Structured for for an open world to make it like competitive or whatever you have all these uh big guilds or the good guilds that have the alliances that have that structure just

dominating the open world which makes it hard for the casual player. I mean you mentioned it as well in vulnerable right? H so it's like it's a double-edged sword. Like is it fun? Yes, it's very fun. Is it fun for everyone? No, it's not. And then you touched on that. Uh I'm just going to say it the way I say. Joo. Um and >> you're fine. >> And I did. It's because I said J. Ji who instead of Yahoo. No. >> Hello. No, but like um but but in the end it all has to do

with getting players back to the game cuz like you need to have population in order to have competitiveness, right? I mean that's why uh maybe KR arch bosses or KR Bosses, open world bosses in general felt a lot more fun because instead of having 200 people or 300 400 people dishing it out for a boss, you might have had 20k. So even if you were a big alliance, you were still getting attacked by 20 other alliances, right? Um but but but I still think it's a very hard matter to answer. I mean the whole guild

situation, sure, you can do fixes to um how guilds are being run. I mean, my guild leader will be the first one. I Think Gareth has lost all of his hair leading Paragon now since we started it. Shout out to him, my my my guy. But like I don't think that's something that NCOFT could I mean they could probably help out with some in-game stuff, right? But I just think generally that's what it is to lead a guild. There is a lot of structure and it kind of comes with a job I guess. But sure

there are a few things but for the open world it's hard to answer. I I don't I don't Really know what would be the best way. >> We are uh coming up here nearing our time. I want to give a chance in case there's any topics maybe I haven't brought up that any of you want to bring it up. >> Uh I would say something about server identity needs to be brought back or something right in T1 there's been a lot of like server identity and then like oh okay I'm from this server this is

happening in my server and all that But I think kind of right now it's kind of lost. I would say maybe if there's like a server v server content or something the inter server is an interesting way to do it but then like let's say okay FTP is like controlling which is uh the info guild pretty much they're controlling like the server there's no not really a reason to like oh like I'm in the same server as FTP let me cheer for them fighting against this other intererver like fights right If somehow there is a

way to make that like um how do I say this >> to make people who get stomped by guild. >> Yeah, they want to like root for the top guild in their uh server which reduces the server host hostility and pretty much like helps with the game health. >> I'm going to counter push here on this one just to say like was server identity coming from uh unity within servers or hatred within servers? Uh >> right now it's right now it's very different with hatred. I think right now right now >> I mean is that

just now like kind of seriously asking you know a lot of the server drama that I saw or server identity came from X and X doing this we don't like them so those of us that don't like them are trying to do that >> drama drama >> I think this ties a little bit back to the previous discussion about open world Bosses right which is at the end of the day like in PvP there's one winner there's not 10 winners >> yes >> and nobody likes to be a loser >> you know >> so Uh,

>> ask me. I've been doing it for a few years. >> Anyways, but I agree. I'm not against the idea of server identity, but I do think it's a bit of a mis Driving server identity before. >> Maybe what you've seen is you've lost some of that because people got tired of losing, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. >> So, um, to talk about like the whole like I think into service age now, I don't know if you guys agree with this. Um, I have a bit of a skewed opinion on it because well, we we

kind of we were dominating. Um, I think it deserve a siege Especially I I just don't think it's that great of a content for me personally. I just don't I don't think it's that great. I feel like it should be top of my head like a server v server actually like so I'm talking about like you know one server versus the other server and you can perhaps you can hire in mercs or like guilds like the top whoever owns the castle can hire a bunch of different guilds to help you don't Like about it the

scale isn't big enough >> um it just it feels odd when it's like 2v2 like >> I feel like if there was more people >> I would say it's There's more people. >> Yeah. I mean, in in there siege, you don't really fight anyone outside the gate, right? You're just like you're just two guilds going instantly barrage inside the castle pretty much. You're not really fighting for the golems. You're not really fighting for this. >> You're just like it's a 2v2 in a lot of cases, right? >> Which is in regular siege. I mean, we

have like a lot of X factor coming in. Oh, who's grabbing that? Who's grabbing this? Yeah. So I was just like inter service >> more players on each side for interverse season. >> Yeah, that I mean that would be that would be pretty cool. Maybe you can do It. What do I know? Like maybe there is a I mean this is I don't know how easy it is to develop but maybe you can have like a list where random people from that server can queue up and they can get dragged in like like invulnerable said

like a merc thing uh would be pretty cool cuz right now it's like you run to the central rest point then you run to the inner courtyard rest point and then you rush it to the and then it's usually the chokes are like in Between the inner courtyard and like the middle rest point. That's usually the choke uh that happens or the inside spawn point uh for into server siege. So yeah, it's definitely a lot more um dynamic when it's normal server siege and just the whole server dishes it out and it's like yo, who's

this guy capping our uh capping our stuff? So yeah, that could be a cool idea. Definitely. Yeah, >> maybe like the four Maybe like the four top guilds make them like an alliance Versus the four like top ranking guilds in the other server make them an alliance. >> Yeah, something like that. Yeah. >> Yeah, that could be super >> maybe. I I don't know. I mean, it's just an idea that I'm throwing out. But >> yeah, I just think I think the siege layout is really awesome and very dynamic. So, I want there to be

way more people. It only works that dynamic of everything only works when there's a lot More people. Um, >> and is it just needing more people or is it also needing more teams? >> You know, it's like in your home server siege, it's not just that there's two or three or 4x the people. It's also seven or eight or 9x the teams that are trying to win. >> I think it's more teams in general. Um, >> yeah, I'd say probably more teams. >> More like X factors. I would say it's not just like one factor

that you see up There like okay, it's just like one big team that's just like charging us. Maybe like there's another people from like the right side of the gate, another people like from I don't know, maybe like taking the jumping golem. There's just a lot more thing to worry about in like regular stage compared to end server. I think as of right now, >> um, is there anything else you guys want to mention? I I do want to mention Nebula was something that is I think a Pretty big >> Nebula is Nebula is I

don't know if you want to make it like open world cuz the portal system is just really bad right now in my opinion people are just like spell casting under like on top of it just not letting anyone in pretty much like the top guilds controlling it. The fight pretty much goes as follows right now. big guilts wafers instantly hit the other Guild. Get in there, guild summon, burn the boss. The HP is too low in the for the boss. There's not many there's not many like wipe max on Grim Turk right now. Exodus is

a little bit fine since Exodus is a little bit there's a little bit more HP on Exodus, but Grim Turk uh Grim Turk dies in like 2 minutes if you full PvE it in a party, right? >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah, which is an issue right now. Yeah, >> sorry. Sorry. Um the the big is I I Don't know if the summon gate inside of the portals is meant to be an intended thing. Um I think it's a bug because you kind of have to go on the edge of the zone and summon. >> Yeah,

it's it's definitely a it's definitely a bug that's been there for quite a long time and hopefully that will get fixed eventually. Maybe I did hear about a Nebula rework at some point like in the past. I I wasn't too sure about that, but I would love to see a Nebula rework in general. I think the map could use a rework. Having the portal system, I'll be honest, it sucks. It's It feels clunky. It there's only a certain amount of people that fit in. If the portal goes restricted, you teleport in, you get teleported back

to the spawn. It doesn't feel very fun, the portal system. And I think they should be out in the open. But I also don't know if the arena the map itself can handle being in the open. So, I think uh There's a lot of things that need to be kind of reworked. And also, I don't know how many people are actually farming Nebula as well. I just don't I I don't see anyone farming it really that much. I think there should be more grind spots and more incentive to grind and maybe remove the time cap.

There's a lot of things that I could talk about, but I think Nebula as a whole needs a big fundamental change and rework. >> I think the rewards I think one of the Thing is the rewards on Nebula. The payoff for like the rewards that you're getting into farming it. Like you're farming for like an hour, but then like what are you getting in return? It's it's not as worth. So a lot of people just don't do it nowadays. People used to do it for like PvP, but now we got BGs, so people don't really

do that anymore. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's It's one of the reason why Nebula Just pretty much like emptied out even on the frenzy zone, which is like from local time, it's like 8 8 to 10. Yeah. >> I mean, depends on how sweaty you are. I mean, we're still farming artifact boxes. >> You guys are crazy. I don't I don't even want to open my artifacts. I have like a [ __ ] ton of artifacts in my inventory. I don't touch them. I'm scared. I don't >> need to minimax, dude. >> No, no, no.

I'm scared, bro. I'm not Touching. >> It's an open mind. But >> you guys are insane, bro. I >> Yeah, EU is built different, dude. >> Different. >> All right. Well, I think that's probably going to end it for now. Uh, any final words, guys? Or if you want to just shout out your channels, please do so. Now, we'll start with Jiu. >> Oh, yeah. Uh, hi, uh, Joo on YouTube. Pretty much, uh, on Twitch, same thing. I stream sometimes. Uh, pretty much just make gladiator content. So if you if you need a build, hit

me up. >> Zach. >> Yeah, Zachary TV on Twitch. I stream pretty much every day and I stream mainly war games. I do also play battlegrounds, but yeah, we we're wargaming pretty much every day. And I stream seeker content, healer, buffer content. Uh, and sometimes I pull out gladiatorial and go gladiator. Oh J, you Will have to you would have to check through my build that's after this competition going on. >> See see if I'm approved >> invulnerable. >> All right. So yeah, uh I I stream. I make YouTube content. You can check me out.

Um I'm that guy with the SNS that everyone hates that can't spam can't that spams can't kill me and then people um spam report me and that's Anyway, I don't want to go into that, but um thank Thank you for the talk. I think it's been great. Um, and I I'm getting ready to build a shrine of Tiko over on the other side of the room. Uh, where I'm going to pray for this guy to fix fix all our problems cuz I trust in Tico, >> right? Yeah. That's another thing, too. Huge shout out to

AGS. Like, I'm pretty sure you guys are getting flamed a lot, but behind the scene, there's so much other things going on which a lot of the casual people don't really know. And a Lot of people just, all right, I'm like, I'm holding a great sword. I want my great sword like super broken. I'm holding a spear. Oh my spears are broken. Like >> people still haven't figured out the difference between a publisher and a developer. But again I mean this again I mean this just goes to show this this whole initiative with the PVP

round table just goes to show that you guys really care about the game and you Really want the game to be something good and enjoyable for everyone. So um thank you for for having me. I'm super grateful for that and uh I think the discussion was a lot of fun. So, thank you to Ji who and invulnerable as well. >> Appreciate it, guys. >> Healthy discussions. I had a lot of fun. >> Appreciate it. I appreciate it. Can I just say one more thing? Sorry. Uh, shout out to Reddit. I'm waiting for your next hate

post for me. How's it Going, Reddit? >> All right, so we'll wrap it up there. I'll say one more thing to people who are watching. Please do give some feedback in the comments. We cover a lot of topics here. We will be reading more of the comments. We want to hear from the community. Do you agree with these guys? Do you disagree with them? Uh, so please give us a lot of feedback in the comments. Um, you probably noticed from our last round table, we made several Actions out of things that came out of that

and the discussion that followed in the comments and other areas throughout the community. So, please do so again. We're going to read them. We're going to react to them. Um, and thanks for watching and we'll see you in Cissium. Heat.