Staying with God when Life is Hard | Jonathan and Melissa Helser

How do you stay with God when things are so hard I don't know where where else would I go it's going to be hard regardless he's the safest most consistent thing in my life like he never said it would be easy and simple he said stay with me so no matter what happens like the rain is coming the winds are coming I have to stay on the solid finish I have to stay with Jesus take that to like the relationship I Have with my daughter I was so harsh to you about your mistakes because I

was so harsh to myself cuz I had a faulty Foundation there that God loved me because of what I did and as that Foundation is being repaired in my heart and I'm starting to respond differently to her it's so much about like are our foundations strong in the Lord what does it look like to reinforce them like look at it with the Lord and be like where did that crack come from I don't even Know how it got there and to actually practice that level of compassion with our own Hearts I can go back at

any point with Jesus and I can repair and restore or I can build brand new things with [Music] God all right we are here today to have a very exciting conversation it's a rare thing that me and you just sit down and like let's talk right it's awesome we have so many things to talk about but Today we are talking about our new book that's out called foundations yes that we've worked for many years on and I'm excited we're finally here to talk about what it means to us and what it means to build really

foundations with Jesus we're so it's such a passion of mine and yours so we're going to get into it yeah how does it feel that this is in the world it feels surreal yeah I think it's one of the something that we've carried that I've carried in my heart for a really long time so I think when you work on something for so many years and you carry the burden of it when it finally gets out it's it's a little just like kind of out of body yes I've watched you pour your heart and soul

into this book uh people just don't understand how much work goes into these books and and the albums um and I've watched you pour your heart and soul specifically in 2024 the whole team Just poured into this and You' LED them in such a beautiful way but you've carried the dream of this book in your heart for a long time it's true um I don't remember when you came to me the first time and you just said I just had this moment with the Lord and an idea for a new book series um I I

I think it's at least five five years ago probably um I think it was 2019 yeah so um but I just want to hear um we have this beautiful book foundations out but It started in your heart the original idea and what was like the original vision for this book that was birthed in your heart we were having our normal to night worship yeah with our community with our community uh it was uh in this room actually and it was a very just like we were in the middle of worship I wasn't even leading uh

and we were I don't even remember really if we were praying into anything or anything like that but it Was just a really really simple moment um found I'm pretty sure that cultivate six was on the wall I'm pretty sure So when you say on the wall this is this is like a very multi-purpose space record albums in here we have the 18in journey classes in here when schools aren't happening this is like a very interactive workspace between the video Department the book Department the design Department the photographers so what does it mean the books

on the wall The books on the wall like when we're working on a book the whole thing gets printed out as we're creating it and designing it and it's put up on our huge walls and we are andac it the whole time it's just way actually take the whole book so it can be up for months a year on the wall as we're working on it so it was I'm pretty sure volume six of cultivate was on the wall cuz I was very much in a Book Zone like I was thinking about it the the

book zone is the mighty Zone mighty mighty um but and I was we were worshiping again I was just kind of zoning out and and the Lord really just started speaking to me and it was kind of out of nowhere and what I heard him say was Melissa I trusted the fate of humanity into the womb of a 15-year-old young girl I want you to teach a generation to rise to the occasion of their life Wow And I just started crying and I was like what is this what are you talking about Lord like what

does this mean and the the Lord really like I felt a burden for really for jenzi if I'm honest like for teenagers early 20s like hit my heart so deeply and that necessar wouldn't have been an abnormal thing like we've since before we were married we've done camps for high school kids and then the school the 18 Journey that we've run for 17 years is for young adults but it was a Different like whoa I feel this crazy burden from the Lord um to do something that is really focused and and it just hit me

and I started looking around the room and and looking even at some of our staff who were teachers and had spent a lot of time in high schools public high schools in our region and and I just was like oh my gosh we have to write something for this age group like we have to write something very specific so that's Initially where it started um the spark of it was just like how how do we help a generation um make it with Jesus and and again that would go back to our early camps of like

how do we help these young kids these teenagers yes not like come to Camp have this crazy Encounter With Jesus go back and have no idea how to actually sustain it on in a normal life like normal school rhythms normal Sports rhythms whatever it is um and so that that was just like the beginning and so We started working and really just like workshopping for years content like how do we want to do this how do we want it to sound what's like what kind of tone CU When You're narrowing the audience like you like

the tone is really important right and you don't want to diminish in any way but you want to speak clearly and and that took a really long time we've um I love the part of the creative process that is waste like It's pretty much impossible to create anything of value without a lot of waste yeah like we've written like to the articles that are in here we've written five per one that we just threw away like like that's not what we want to say yeah that doesn't feel helpful um and so the the trajectory of

it all the way to this past year has been a a ride and every time I'm like maybe we shouldn't do this book I the encounter I have with the Lord Like just comes right back up in my spirit and I feel like we have to do this yes and I I don't know that I've really ever felt that besides like my deepest passion would be our schools and yeah the discipleship we do but I've I've never really felt when people talk about I had a burden for this you know like it's really never left

wow and and as we went deeper into it this year we were able to like man this Is really about foundations like this is about the beginning this is about the thing that holds us up this is a like this is maybe like the more we wrote and the more we got into the content realizing like this is definitely for this age group but then it's also for a much older age group or really any age group yeah understanding that we are every age we've ever been and sometimes we can't even process what Happened at

18 19 20 until we're 30 40 50 yes and so the deeper we got into it I mean because initially we talked about even calling it like teen cultivate or like young adult cultivate or something like so cheesy like I don't think we would have ever really landed on that because it's totally ridiculous now that I actually even say it but but as we got into we like okay this this is the most honest the most clear the most vulnerable we've ever written MH this probably isn't just for genz like this probably isn't just for

this age group but I do think it's important that this age group knows that like they were the beginning spark for us like they were the thing at the Forefront of our hearts as we were writing and designing that we really were thinking about this time in our lives mhm that like 15 to 25 like that time period in our life and how how important it actually is and Again whether you're you are that age or you are looking back to those times all of it really matters yeah wow I uh I took this book

with me on a trip a couple weeks ago and we were very close to the canvas of this book all of 2024 it was on the wall we were rereading articles rewriting articles uh reprinting things just like we were looking at it every day multiple times a day for a long time but I had that gift of having like a few weeks of Being away from it yeah and I pulled this out on a trip I was just on and it I'm like this is the most potent thing we've ever written um I feel like

so many I got to write quite a few articles in it rereading just your intro I'm like we're giving uh that age group something that we wish someone would have given us when we were that age um someone who would have taught us some of these ancient paths and taught us how to lay foundations um and and I as I was Reading it I was I was so proud of the title cuz we did go through a lot of different title ideas um and as I read back through the book um I was like we

chose a really good title um but what tell me a little bit about the title of the book like you mentioned it and you describing the vision of it but like just unpack that a little more why did we call it foundations with the heart that you were saying for I think That me and you kind of live in this metaphorical space like where again like cultivate it means so much cuz the garden of our heart means so much um words really matter to us and and they need to carry weight and when I think

about our life in the Lord I think my my walk with the Lord um and I think about what's taken a lot of time MH it would 100% be the foundations of my life yeah um and again being willing to as I get older reflect back back on places where The Lord actually does want to go in and repair and rebuild and restore MH I think anyone who's you know lived a little bit of life in God like you understand that in his kindness and in his wisdom oftentimes he waits um until we're older and

in a different space to process things that happened when we were much younger but we're always like going back to those foundational things and so I I I think when when we really finally landed like this this actually Is the most accurate thing whether you're just starting out and you're building these foundations with Jesus that are so important it is the book that I wish I would have had in my early 20s um so much of what's in the book we're still practicing right now because we're going back so we can go forward and that

that is really important to us um but landing on the title like I could think of so many things even at the farm where we run all of our schools and Everything like we we have been involved deeply in all of the building projects all of like the process when we're talking about our teaching arcs for schools and Retreats and everything it's so much about like are our foundations strong in the Lord yeah what does it look like to reinforce them what does it look like to have the humility and the grace to go back

and like look at it with the Lord and be like where did that crack come from I don't even know how it It got there and to actually practice that level of compassion with our own hearts that it's so helpful to have that um permission I can go back at any point with Jesus and I can repair and restore or I can build brand new things with God and it like I never outgrow that beautiful space of like oh we're I'm building something completely new with Jesus and this is this is so amazing like this

is foundational yes and so I I think a lot of times when we talk about It in the church specifically it can be really derogatory like this is foundational like this is the very very beginning and and it we don't feel as much permission to be like oh yeah this is foundational I've been walking with the Lord for 30 40 years but this is foundational and I I'm not going to feel shame about that like I need to reinforce this foundational truth in my life and then we like really got into Scripture and landed in

Matthew seven and I just want to read it cuz I think it like just was the anchor that dropped for us and it's Matthew 7:24 therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock the rain came the streams Rose and the winds blew and they beat against that house yet it did not fall because it had its foundation on the rock and I I think like when when we Got into this scripture we were like oh my gosh like the

anchor just dropped and we're like this is everything that we've done for the last 20 years like this is if you hear and put it into practice when I think about our schools when I think about cultivate when I think about this book it is giving people permission to practice so that they can feel like their foundations are strong yes in the Lord and I it does take a lifetime to do that M I think it's it's really sad when People just feel like I have to hurry this up and there's this imaginary bar I

need to reach yeah and I just love this scripture because it's talking about practice like if you put them into practice you are a wise man and practice is it's just so liberating right because it's nobody expects anyone to like pick up a baseball bat and a baseball glove and know how to play the first time they've ever done it it takes a lifetime to master that and I love that they're Connecting wisdom to practice right right here and then I love that it he goes on to say that the rain came and the streams

Rose and the wind blew like it's coming storms are coming like the rain came it wasn't like the rain might come and the streams might rise one day and the winds might blow but they might not if you're really good like you it's just not what Jesus is talking about he's like this is coming like storms are Coming and and and you like if you build your house on the rock you're going to be okay but the storms are coming and so I I think when I'm man just when I think about our life with

the Lord and how many storms there have been and how much practice it's taken to stay like I I don't want to give a message to anyone that's like do it right and you get to skip storms like they are coming like the rain is coming the wind is Coming and it's really important that you feel strong in the Lord because that's the thing that actually gets us through it right and several years ago I actually don't remember how long it might probably was four or five years ago a hurricane blew through in in the

Autumn I think it was actually maybe the first week of our school or something it was beginning of our school yeah and it it B which is when we're laying the Foundations which yeah it was like crazy but it blew through fast and strong and after the next morning we went out to see like what damage had been done and do you remember we walked around the side of the house that we really never we don't really go on that side of the house that often and the all the vinyl sighing had been had been

ripped off from the wind and it exposed the like foundational beams from like our our main floor to our basement And they were rotting yeah and we were like oh God this is not good like we called our like the the the guy who built our house remember I texted in pictures and he's like call me immediate right like and we were like oh my gosh this is really bad like he came out and he's like this is not good like the way the flashing and the sighting was put in was um put in incorrectly

yeah water was leaking and down in the Builder skipped one step on the vinyl installation there Was one extra bend that he didn't do right because that bend wasn't there water was coming in and rotting the foundation and we had been in the house at this time at maybe 15 15 years um and it felt really profound I remember standing there with you mean like whoa okay this is this is not good yeah but this feels really profound yeah if the Lord has a voice and everything like God what are you saying what are you

saying Lord and I I remember feeling That like man so I felt so grateful that a storm had blown in and ripped off the facade on our house like and exposed what was actually there CU we didn't know we never would have known it was rotting unless a storm came through and like ripped the siding off our house we never would have known and they had to come out and take out all the flashing all the sighing around check everything um replace boards and and it I just was like man I can't Believe how grateful

we are for the storm cuz it revealed what was actually there yeah and and we were able to call a wise Builder to come in and fix it and I think when I'm thinking about this book and I'm thinking about like this scripture and I'm just like man Lord I I want to get to the place where I I understand what storms are for like they do expose they do reveal what's there and you're such a good Builder like we had been in the House for 15 years I'm so grateful that we didn't feel this

crazy toxic shame like what what did we do it's all our fault we're like no that like the guy who put this in skipped a step in the in the Lord in his in his Brilliance like allowed this storm to blow through so that we could see what was there and fix it yeah and I I just I I love again metaphorically the things that we circle around when the Lord allows life to line up with what we're like really sitting In it's such a gift I mean that literally was the first week of the

school and I'm like I remember talking to the students about that right like I remember talking about like oh what if we had a different perspective on on when the rains come and the winds blow like the storms are coming and what is Jesus inviting us into yes so I I I just love that this book is called foundations because it really is about again in the beginning stages we We want to build our foundations a strong as possible [Music] mhm and then as we grow in the Lord and we get older there are so

many moments where we're going to have to go back to go forward yeah where the Lord is inviting us to go back because a storm is blown through our life that was like in our late 30s like a storm just blew through ripped it all off and we had to stop and just be like okay Lord like you Want to fix this like you want to restore this rebuild this and so I I think more than anything I want people to feel just permission I think for whatever season they're in yeah like whether they're young

and at the beginning stages and it's like okay I want to build my life on the rock yeah like I want to build my life so that when the storms come I I'm not completely swept away yeah um and then With every season that comes there's that beautiful compassion yeah that we need to be able to walk with Jesus for the long yes yeah it reminds me of our parenting right now where um we have a 19-year-old daughter and a 22-year-old son almost 23 almost 23 so we're 22y old parents our friend Jason Upton said

that to us a few years ago and it was so dignifying cuz he's like you know I think his son was like 18 at the time he Said you know I'm really just only an 18-year-old dad right cuz my son Samuel's 18 years old I've only been a dad 18 years and I think one of the things when you're talking about going back and repairing foundations what it reminds me of in our parenting right now is just these moments that we're having with our son and daughter where we're practicing apologizing a lot yeah for things

that we laid early in their life that we've learned a lot in the last two Decades and we're like we actually want to go back and repair that like some of the things we taught you guys like is like we want to change that Foundation like we want to go back and repair that um I feel like we're practicing apologizing to them more than we ever have there's actually there's one of the articles in this book that I have um about core beliefs yeah it's about one of the reactions that I would have uh especially

early in my kids life uh just The pressure I had to to be perfect right um and there's an article about the way I reacted to Haven one time when she dropped a dish taking it out of the dishwasher and I look back at like oh that breaks my heart the way I reacted but then I'm also like the grace that I have right now to go back and relay foundations with Haven like our friendship me and Haven's friendship is more secure than it's ever been that's right um she knows I'm a recovering Perfectionist U

but she's watching me give Grace to myself yeah and it's laying Grace in the foundation who she is um it's true yeah so just the that this book is for someone who's maybe just starting their Journey or someone who's deep into their journey and wants to go back and relay foundations I just love the imagery of that yes um I I did Construction in Charlotte when we were dating actually and I remember being um crawling under these like hundredy old Houses in Charlotte with this wise Builder and um cuz there were these these houses that

uh different parts of the houses had begin to like literally like the floors were starting to like sink in because the foundation below was um faulty and we would go and Jack these houses up and then repair wow repair the foundations um and that that is the imagery I see like that a lot of people are going to do with this book yeah so I want to go back to the word you said Practice yeah um Jesus said whoever hears these words and puts them into practice just you talk a littleit this book is a

very interactive book as I was just relooking through it I'm like this is not a normal book right um we say a lot in our school that um information is not transformation that's right um and and and Jesus is saying you have to hear these words and actually put them into practice do something with them so like What is different about foundations than a lot of books that are on the Shelf and that is an interactive book and it's going to actually challenge you to practice what you're reading not just read it uh but actually

do something with what you're reading yeah I think the practice is like it's it's more it what we're trying to do is it is provoking yeah but not in a uh a negative sense in a like if you don't practice you won't Feel secure I told uh actually Cadence last week we were talking about some stuff and um actually no I told him this about cuz I just learned how to grill that's right you heard it here first I just learned how to grill chicken taught you how to grill you did in a very amazing

way um my house actually burned down when I was a kid from a fire on a grill like from a grill so um I I'm facing my fears and you left for like 10 days and I thought I'm literally not Going to eat meat if I don't learn how to grill this chicken so and and it was was pretty funny it was like the the joke of the entire time you were gone was me and K like me grilling every single day which is kind of ridiculous and you sending me pictures of like look at

this perfectly grilled chicken perfectly grilled chicken you're such a good teacher yeah it's true it's true um but I I was laughing and I I told kadence because I think the saying goes Practice makes perfect but I completely disagree with that I think practice creates confidence wow and that's so good I'm like for me the more I practice the more confident I felt felt in turning the grill on and like when fire like when the oil goes down like you said and the Fire gets big like confident that everything's going to be fine like I

can do this and I know that's kind of a silly example but I I think that practice actually does create Confidence it shouldn't create Perfection it should create confidence because I think actually the more you practice the more humbled You Are by everything you do right but there's a confidence in the ability and I think that is something I'm very much seeing lacking in the longevity of of so much of our walk with the lord it's just the confidence that we're loved by the Lord that we're in it for the long haul he's in it

for the long haul yes like we can Do this and I think I just love I love what Jesus is saying like if you hear and put it into practice your wise because we do spend quite a lot of time just listening to things yeah messages you know uh podcasts all the stuff like we listen oh that's really great that's really good information really good information but we actually don't feel the confidence to put it into practice so when like our books have always carried a very deep element all Of cultivate carries a deep element

of practice and I would say this one is is even more so yeah it is there to ride in it's it's there to We Made It smaller and and shorter More Travel like that you could throw it in a bag and take it on a trip or in a that you would actually have it with you it's not the coffee table book that's going to sit and it's beautiful um in that way of like cultivate was just bigger and thicker and it just it wasn't something That you would take with you it's so pretty like

you don't want to write in it right even though we encourage people to write in them this is different this is beautiful but the idea is that you would interact with it that you would actually become wise yeah and Jesus is saying you become wise and there's a confidence you can have when the storms come cuz they're coming yeah that that your house is built on a rock if you practice yes and so I I think there's Just it takes so much practice to feel confident in our relationship with the Lord It's the practice of

of doing emotion it's the practice of reading the word it's the practice of sitting with the Lord in silence it's the practice of listening to his voice it's the practice of prayer like all these things require so much practice and I I love I mean we both love when we get to sit with people whove walked with the Lord for a really long time and we just Get to like you just look at them like there's a confidence there's a settledness in their life because they've done so much practice it's just so much time that

they've spent in the word walking with the Lord praying like loving people laying down their life and that anxiety of like am I doing it right am I making God happy is is he going to be pleased with me today like some of that begins to dissipate because we just know like oh The Lord is in it for the long haul there's time I don't need to be anxious about my walk with the Lord yes he's pleased in me he sent his son to die for me he's very clear all through scripture he's so clear

about the practice like put it into practice if you do when you do like all those beautiful little words that give us directional like just reality of like if if you follow that if you walk that way if you practice this thing there is a confidence and a Subtleness that will come so good and I think that not only a younger generation but we have a lot of people that are out there and there's just there's such a a deficit of confidence yeah that their relationship with God is enough and then it's such a deficit

of desire to to keep walking with him keep pressing in like it just yeah I really really hope that men and women just feel released to do the work yes and to not feel like okay I've Got to do this work for God and with God like but I get to practice I get to walk with the Lord I get to I'm on this path for the rest of my life yes like I'm not going to give into the anxiety that this has to happen quickly I think that's why I love even the metaphor of

you under a house like jacking up a house re like that's so freaky to me I'm like I can't even imagine doing that but I was crazy to watch an entire house just I don't think I would have been Able to do that but what I love is that you're doing it to say to like to protect the house MH like it I think often times was like let's rebuild foundations let's do the work let's practice it feels like okay I'm I'm a failure I haven't done it right I've got to start all the way

over like you going back in and reinforcing with wise Builders it's like it's actually to save the house yeah it's to save everything that's been Built up on top of it yeah but then take that to like the relationship I have with my daughter me apologizing for do you remember the way I responded to you when you made mistakes when you were really little like I was so harsh to you about your mistakes because I was so harsh to myself right cuz I had a faulty Foundation there that God loved me because of what I

did not not who I am as a son and it's that Foundation is being repaired in my heart God loves me For who I am not what I do right um then I'm starting to respond differently to her and then now our again I'm going to the like the bottom of me and Haven's friendship that's right that's being repaired so 20 years from now right when uh I'm holding my grandchild or or my grandchild's unloading the dishwasher and they make a mistake and I respond in a different way it's like oh our foundation has been

repaired and me and Haven's friendship can make it for the Long haul now right but it is doing the work it's like getting under the house and repairing that Foundation of our friendship it's so good yeah wow when um one of the things that I've heard you say a lot in this room when um again so much of this book is like this is our life message from that very first summer camp that we hosted here 26 years ago it's like we wanted these high school kids to make it for the long haul um I

remember that First camp we said to them you're not just here to drink from our will you're here to dig your own well because if you can dig your own well you'll be a drink the rest of your life right uh we just wanted to make it through their junior year or their senior year of school and still be in love with Jesus but I've seen you in this room talk to 18in Journey students to talk to our Retreat guest or our high school campers and you say this phrase so many times I want you

To make it for the long haul I want you to make it for the long haul um and we talked about the storms are coming um and if we don't have a foundation when the storms come we don't make it for the long haul um but just talk a little bit about like with this book like what is your yeah what's the ache in your heart for generation to make it for a long haul to make it for the their whole life clinging to Jesus Right I think to answer that I'd probably have to reflect

back a little cuz we've talked a lot on our podcast about just seasons of my chronic illness and um from such a young age right that it's been such a part of our my story our story and I actually start the book out with telling the story of me getting diagnosed which is a very very vulnerable story to tell um I've Actually never I've never written it down until now and it was vulnerable for me to read it I know it's just like wow I can't believe this part of your story is printed and out

there when I just read it two weeks ago yeah it wasn't easy to write but I think I felt challenged by the Lord to like if I could go back and sit with my 17-year-old self like what would I tell Her I'm 40 almost 45 like what would I what what words of wisdom would I have to give her when she was diagnosed in college and like the whole world started kind of imploding and just kind of folding in you know and I I I think that again I I I really mean this and I

I talk about it in in this book that we don't really know what's in us until the storms come and what's like What foundationally is is even in our hearts yeah storms reveal they do yeah and I I often like reflect on the Lord trusting me to walk through a storm like that at such a young age I was just so young and I had I was just faced with so many things like so many questions and doctors and you could be paralyzed and it just there was just so many things that just I was

introduced to at such a young age and I I can look back and be Like man that that reality very much like opened up this question of like where is the Lord like where is he and like just looking like growing up in a Christian home and really growing up even in uh a church reality that deeply believed in healing and praying for healing and but feeling really far from the Lord and just being faced with a lot of that if that makes sense when I think about the Long Haul and why it's so important

to me I have to like go all The way back to when it all became really real for me my life like will I at that time like will I get married will I have children will I see my grandchildren like all of these things like when you're faced with really deep suffering and very big questions that like it it ushers in another set of really big questions and right and so I I know that when I think again when I look back to that Melissa there was like such a a fervor To please the

Lord but there was so much confusion I didn't have any tools I didn't have any simple practices to stay with the Lord and and I had to kind of find them and create them and then I met you and then we started camps and we were like how do we help a generation like stay with the Lord and and make it and not do this like like a wave in the sea being blown and tossed by the wind like it's you know God is here one second and the Lord is completely Abandoned me the next

second like how do we formulate like just simple beautiful practices that keep us on the solid rock like and and I can look back and be like man I can't all the discipleship we've done in the last 25 years for me personally I would I would absolutely connect to the fact that I had to walk through this thing yeah and I had to face um life and death and suffering at such a young age and it it created a a Perspective for me that has has changed the course of my life completely and being able

to be forced to like either cling to Jesus or or curse Jesus like Curse God or cling to God like being faced with that at such a young age and then having to walk that out for the last 25 years yes like when things are crashing down and things are imploding and my body is falling apart like I've never once thought I'm going to leave God ever like that is the last Thing I want to do like but that is really because at such a young age I was faced with like he is the god

that stays with me so no matter what happens like the rain is coming the winds are coming but I I have to stay on this like a solid foundation I have to stay with Jesus this is the most consistent safe place I could possibly be yes like I don't want to do any of this life without the Lord so even with students and Retreat guests everything it's like Suffering is coming like hardship is coming loss is coming relational breakdowns are coming the worst thing we do is like try to do all of that without the

Lord but to stay with him for the Long Haul like to practice daily so that when the storms come we have an unshakable foundation with the Lord um is it it is such a deep passion of mine yes because I just think suffering has been such a huge part of our journey and I could Have walked away from the Lord I've had people ask me for 25 years how do you st stay with God when things are so hard and I'm like I don't know where where else would I go like it's going to be

hard regardless like he's the safest most consistent thing in my life like he never said it would be easy and simple he said stay with me like stay close to me depend on me I am the faithful one I the consistent one I Don't grow weary I don't faint like you're going to get weary and you're going to get tired but I'm not going to get tired I'm like that's the kind of security that I want yeah wow so thankful that we have a a king that loves us so much he's the Alpha and the

Omega and he's he is he is our past and he's our future and he loves us so much that he prepares us for what's coming like he said in this world you'll Have trouble right but don't lose Heart Take heart I've overcome the world and um yeah just hearing 17-year-old Melissa up to this moment um and the what Jesus has done in your heart what Jesus has done in your life like I know just from reading that first article a couple weeks ago I like I forgot that we opened the book with you sharing that

it just like it it got me um and I'm like w this is such a beautiful gift that we're giving um to Help yeah help lay the foundations and go back and repair the foundations one of the things that we talked about just how interactive the book is to practice to go and practice things and we've said a lot in our school that discipleship is formed by the questions that are asked yeah and there's so many there's a lot of questions in this book this isn't a book that just gives you answers it's a book

would you say it's a book that helps you actually ask the right Question I think it's a book that starts like that gives you the question that will hopefully lead to more questions okay absolutely like it's going to give you language that hopefully will open up more language yeah because again like the last thing we wanted to do specifically with Gen Z was give like the young adult generation that like age group trite simple answers yeah life is not like that it's not simple like that's the last thing we wanted to do we Wanted to

give them our most vulnerable process the stories of our life the places where we like we still don't have answers yeah and and we're still with Jesus like that's the thing that's going to actually change people is feeling the permission like I can ask really hard questions yes and hopefully the questions will open up more questions mhm because the Lord is there like he wants to have this kind of dialogue with us wow yeah learning how to ask the Right questions what would you I mean I think this is so much of what this book

is but uh for the 17-year-old Melissa if you could go back um like what would you tell her um in regards to questions I mean I know cuz me and you ask a lot of questions over these last 25 years and just a couple weeks we'll be married um but what would yeah how to what would you say to your younger self now with what you know About questions and how the mystery of questions but then also the wisdom of asking uh the right right might not be the word but asking the the the correct

questions with the Lord or even sitting with um I look back at our our teenage self and I'm like we didn't really not us sit at the table and ask questions to the generation that was ahead of us this has been something that we've treasured in these days is like when we get to sit with those that Have gone ahead of us like we're ready to ask questions because those questions will give us keys to be able to rebuild foundations and lay foundations for our future but what would you say to your your young young

Melissa about questions and and about foundations I think I would again growing up in the church you don't realize that you do formulate a lot of pretending that you know a lot of facades a lot of facades a lot of just like the vinyl sighting on Our house yeah exactly like you you you form like a lot of patterns of pretending do you think there's a pressure to just have have the answers absolutely I absolutely think there's a pressure I and and I don't think that that ends in our youth like I think it just

carries on yeah um but but if you think about it a lot of like our basic interaction like with church is you go you sit you listen you go home you might do a home group a lot of information It's a lot of yeah listening and someone talking to you it's like you might do a home group where you might dialogue a little bit but if like we're not really set up to like sit at the table and ask questions and and feel safe there and I think that growing up in in the church which

I'm so grateful for I'm so thankful for my youth and like just my experience um growing up in a in a Christian home and all of that and I can look back and be like wow I felt a ton Of pre of like unspoken subconscious pressure yeah to have answers like to I'm you know I'm a leader in the youth group I I need to know these things and I need to know how to trust the Lord and have faith in the in God and and and you know the Lord is so good like it's

a hard day but God's going to get me through it like it's a lot of pumping up and like and I I'm not against that necessarily as long as it is balanced with life is very hard and it's Okay for you to look at that it's okay for you to feel the sadness of Life the hardship of life it's okay that you feel disappointed right now um in the Lord in life in decisions whatever let's move through that together right and I I think I would tell that really young Melissa um it's it's okay that

you're scared like I was I can look back now and just like oh man I was so scared I was just so scared but I didn't I Didn't feel permission to just be scared like I felt very a lot of pressure to just believe in God with my whole heart and have faith the amount of times people told me just have faith just have faith God's going to heal you just have faith like that like okay just have faith like putp myself up like it's it's okay I can do this I can do this and

actually in internally I was terrified I Was sad I I was getting like reports back from test and I'm like I I'm I'm really scared but I didn't have any space to talk to the Lord about that fear W and I now I would just be like okay these are the questions you're going to ask the Lord like it's okay to sit in this fear like the Lord is going to help you like get to that place of Faith but I can look back oh it was a lot of pretending not intentionally it wasn't intentional

and I it was just the Only thing I need to do was to act like I was okay and in in the deepest part of my heart I really needed someone to just sit and weep with me yeah I was 17 years old like being told that I within a year or two I might not be able to walk or hold a cup or like it was just the progression of what I was walking through was so intense and so I hope that makes sense like I I would just give her space to like actually

believe that Jesus loved Me yeah and he wasn't he wasn't alarmed that I was scared actually would be even strange that I wouldn't be scared that would be more strange than being really scared and and I would I would tell her to just stay like stay with Jesus like tell him everything like he wants to talk to you about all of this he wants to give you keys and he's he's not going anywhere like cuz I felt so much I just have to prove to the Lord and everyone else that I'm a I'm I'm a

young woman of Faith and I believe that God heals and I'm going to and it and internally I was actually in a really tough spot and and it was really hard to do that much pretending yeah does that make sense oh yeah yeah yeah so I I think I would like I wish I would have had the confidence to just ask more questions yeah I didn't even really feel the confidence to ask people questions you know and I think it's so important I don't think we should be put off by by The questions that that

young men and women or old men whatever age you are ask I don't think there's right and wrong questions I don't think I think there's more helpful questions I think we can get to a moment where it's like hm is this the is this the question that would really help yeah me get like not even answers but like that will bring peace to my soul like maybe that's not the right maybe that's not the question I need to ask yeah right like but but it Being a a good question or bad question I don't know

like I think it's more nuanced than that don't you yeah for sure and I mean um I'm seeing Jonathan Melissa in their mid 20s um The Chronic yness has come back like a Title Wave right and we I'm asking a lot of why questions like why God like why are my prayers not being answered why like why are you not healing Melissa like you said you would that would be the most common question we asked why But I'm so grateful we did have a wise Builder crawl under our house with us a dear friend named

Graham cook and he I mean we we just said Graham like why like why is God doing this why this suffering I remember we were able to just be really vulnerable and just like what do we do what do we do Graham like we're so overwhelmed and um and he said you know in his wonderful British accent said a lot of times on this Earth God doesn't answer the why question he said But a better question to ask is God what do you want to be for me right now that you couldn't be in any

other season of my life that's right and that began to unlock something in our discipleship and our forming and our formation with God that began to actually lay foundations that would take us through the storm it begin to lay the kill that's the part of the boat that goes underneath the surface of the water goes down deep into the water where there's more below the Surface than there is above the surface that's a a wonderfully designed boat if you want to talk about a foundation like is that when there's more weight below the surface then

the then the boat can sell through the storms and not flip in the storms right and when Graham like gave us that question to ask the lord it's like a more helpful question yeah we to ask that it was like no he's he's the he's the king that like gets down in the mud with me and he weeps with me Right and he catches my tears right um like yeah what I'm thinking about Melissa sitting at the piano playing what became You Came the song I knew that you would come but just those nights that

you would I feel like those were the nights you start started asking God those questions um in your early 20s I remember some nights just cuz our piano sits between our living room in Our bedroom and I remember some nights laying s sitting in our bedroom and you sitting at the piano playing to the Lord and it was such a holy sacred moment like I'm like I'm not walking out there like something's happening between Jesus's heart and Melissa's heart but I feel like those were the nights that you started asking the better questions um if

that makes sense um and and you began to write some of those songs Beautiful Jesus and you came Um and there were they were nights that foundations were being repaired in our hearts um when we really begin to ask God who do you want to be for me right now that you couldn't be in any other season um yeah just maybe talk about that just a little bit um just those nights yeah those nights and like what what was starting to happen then when you begin to ask God those questions yeah um I mean I

think again it was just permission yeah like I What Graham gave us in our early 20s was what we actually were longing for somebody gave us permission to be in the tension yeah um he didn't just give us an answer like this watertight answer no yeah or like if you do this this and this then you'll get through it quickly and it it'll all wrap up and you then you can shout it from the rooftop that God is good you know like he just didn't do that he he answered our question with a more helpful

Question which I think like anyone who knows us would be like oh that's where Jonathan Mista learned that because I think we do that a lot like we get ask questions all the time and sometimes we answer it with another question like maybe this is a more helpful question and I think that those moments for me again in my in my 20s like the these moments you're talking about I was really young like yeah I was 21 22 23 24 like literally the age that We specifically initially wrote this book for even though it's for

yeah any age group um I mean those are the moments I I would have given anything for like a road map cuz it was in those are the moments I'm just like okay like I can't sleep I'm in pain I'm not going to just be mad at God I'm going to believe that he wants to fellowship with me in this place yes and I'm I'm not I'm not going to accuse him I'm just I'm going to like sit in this Frustration or disappointment and and I'm going to receive the comforter MH I mean that's specifically

blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted if you don't mourn you don't need a comforter simple as that like if you don't learn how to actually walk through grief and suffering and hardship you don't actually need a comforter to come and so when I think about those those moments that you're like reflecting On I I was giving just learning how to give myself permission to just be sad but not direct my sadness at blame toward God but just sit in my sadness with the Lord yes like this is really hard lord I

can't I can barely pick up my daughter this is really overwhelming and just let the love of God actually wash over me and bring a deep like knowing and love and affection and comfort because I just tried to Mourn what was actually happening in my life and the comforter would come over and over and over again and I I can just see like oh it just set us on a trajectory of it was building trust that we could go through anything and that Jesus would stay with us yes like I've talked a lot in the

last couple years like The God Who stays would be like an attribute of the Lord that's probably been the most life-changing for Me yeah it I mean it was I think that is him God who do you want to be for me right right now that you couldn't be in in any other season I want to be The God Who stays right that's the kill that's like dropped deep into the right and yes and I love that when I think about dealing with a chronic illness which is every single day right it's like every day

you're in pain every day you're walking through it and there's flare ups and it gets better and worse but it's Actually such a consistent thing that I experienced in my 20s and 30s The God Who stays was like my Foundation like that is what I built yes the last 20 years on like that entered into the my story in my 20s and because we asked a different question and and he came in a different way and I was able to sit in that tension and and that is a lot of why we reflect on these

moments because I don't want to give people like happy happy it's going to be Fine you can do it when life is really hard actually like Walk The Narrow Path it's like okay what does that mean you know like and it that's actually really difficult it's wonderful because Jesus is wonderful but the actual walking out the narrow way is very hard to do yeah and it takes a lot of practice yes and it takes a lot of questions and it takes a lot of humility to do that and not lose heart and I think that's

really what we wanted to dignify which is Something we're always talking about I just want to dignify the process like the Lord in my 20 was wholeheartedly dignifying my process so good I didn't have answers like I was so young and I was trying my hardest to believe and have faith and but what Jesus was doing was just dignifying my process like we're not in a hurry Melissa I'm the god that stays like we're going to get through this and he was just so Consistent and I can look back and be like that actually was

more profound in my history with the Lord than if he would have just healed me instantly wow like forming Seasons like him forming in me like I am the god who stays no matter what like it just it created such a profound Foundation it's been my rock it is my rock yes that he's talking about like man and more storms have come and more Hardship has come and more things have happened that have been very troubling and heart-wrenching and I'm still standing on that beautiful rock that that that we built together in my 20s of

like I am the god that isn't leaving like doesn't matter how disappointed you are I'm not I don't grow weary with you um yeah I think that that really is what just it changed my life for for sure Yeah and kept me has absolutely kept me for the last 20 plus years like it's it's kept me with the Lord yes so thankful for foundations me too not this book thankful for the book but for foundations that the wise Builder we've gotten to build with him yeah to make it through storms yes um without those foundations

we wouldn't have made it through those storms I'm thankful for a spiritual father who came in our life And we we we probably really just wanted Graham to give us a formula for sure but he's like no I'm going to give you questions that will lead you to a father yeah and if you begin to practice listening and asking right like found ations will be laid that will take you through the storms anchors and kills will be dropped that can take you through the storms and when we see him now you know 25 years later

20 plus years later like when Graham looks me in The eyes I like and he's like I'm so proud of you like I know that it's like okay I I stayed with Jesus yeah like we're still here like through all of life's ups and downs and all the things like we haven't like accused the Lord yeah and I think it's it's I feel very grateful yeah for that yeah I'm thinking about that moment of discipleship that Jesus had the boys have been with him for a couple years at this point and and he he has

that moment where he says who Do the people say I am they're like some say Elijah some say John one of the prophets he's like but I want to know who do you say I am right again discipleship is for by the questions that are asked right and he's like I want to know what you really believe about me like what do you think about me yeah and Peter jumps up he's like yeah you're the Christ you're the son of the Living God and Eugene Peterson takes that and he says uh it's kind of like

um Jesus is like now that you know who I am let me introduce you to your true self Peter totally and he says to Peter Peter you're a rock and on this rock I'll build my church and again it's like when Peter answered that question for himself it was information wasn't transformation it was like he had to reach down inside this is what I really believe about God and he got he came out with it then a rock was like formed inside of Peter right so he could make it through the Storms and Jesus is

speaking this to the same guy who's going to deny him like a year later right three times like he doesn't look like a rock three years later but there's a rock being built deep inside of him and this is a book like as I was looking through it again I'm like I just love there's there's pages in here where there's just one question on there to go ask the Lord um this is not a book that's a formula um it's not a 1 two three four step do These steps and you'll have a foundation it's

a book to go work out the process with a father to work out the process with a king who wants to get in the mud and weep with you and then pull you up and say you can be more than you've ever dreamed you can yeah and to dignify the process more than just dignifying the goal or the reward or the ending or the fruit like we love to dignify the very end yeah but God is always dignifying the whole Entire process yeah and that would be the like yeah those questions are in there to

dignify and honor the tension yeah that life is actually full of yeah and help you lay foundations to make it for the long haul yeah this has been beautiful anything else you want to say about this book this is just book one by the way yeah there's more coming is that right yeah yeah there's more how many do you think I don't know we got a lot to Say yeah and this is this is what we've really have given 25 years to is like helping young people and older people every age group like to lay

foundations and rebuild foundations yeah yeah I think the only thing I else I would say is I'm just really proud of the vulnerability that our community brought to the table yeah um one of the main things that that I really felt the Lord provoking me is like if you could go back and sit with your younger self what Would you say and knowing that our staff has the courage to do that work they've done that work for for a very long time like over a decade of just how Having the courage to look back so

we can go forward and that beautiful Journey that we have with Jesus and I'm really I'm just not only of our willingness to do that but the whole everyone who wrote for this and that Volume 2 is pretty much almost done like the vul book two sorry book two is almost done the Vulnerability that everyone has brought to the table has been very very moving and I I I'm proud of the you know you want the longer you walk with the Lord to like the more vulnerable you get not the longer you walk with the

Lord the more watertight answers you have I think life doesn't actually work like that and the longer you walk with Jesus the more um willing and desperate and like you are for his his words and His leadership and his guidance and the more questions we should be asking and so I I just feel really I feel stunned actually and overwhelmed with gratitude at the willingness of our team to share their stories yeah because our the testimony of our life is really the gold of of it all like it's the thing that we carry into eternity

is our willingness to to stay with the Lord yes and the stories that come out of those those commitments um so the the vulnerability Is stunning and and again I hope that it inspires people to ask those questions and to be willing to look back so that they can go forward and to have the courage to if you're really young to stop and just build the foundations practice the work um get your hands in the soil of your life with Jesus and not be afraid yeah and no matter how old you are there's always that's

right always there's always a door that you can go in called Grace Where you can go underneath that house with the wise Builder that's right I was a 19-year-old kid laying under that house with a builder who'd been doing this like his whole life wow I didn't know I mean I he was just showing me and I was just watching him jack these houses back up and then rip hair foundations so yeah beautiful thank you for sharing so many parts of your heart uh and thank you for listening to the Lord in this room and

taking these last Gosh six years since you had that original spark for this and now it's in the world so yeah thank you guys so much for listening uh you can get this book at CIS birds.com y uh we're so excited to get this book out into the world that's right and to help the generations lay foundations [Music]