Agenda building discussion with stakeholders

So I'm just moving out I'm just moving out I'll be I have another meeting to attend it okay okay no problem thank you very much thank you very I two people will join from worre and share microphone they're traveling maybe somebody has join Sashi from which mfi you are uh this is Shi here Yeah I'm from share micr Finance okay so share micro Finance yeah so he has already joined we can start go ahead okay okay you can talk to weo yes yes already sent the message uhuh you talk to and okay oh so I

mean we were having this discussion I mean in bits and pieces the round of introduction my name is shal I work with s and I look after the industry building side I paid that Depart and I try to build up the industry to take the finance to the last person one of the important thing which we are doing from our uh from our department is to understand the technology and facilitate the technology to uh to to work better in the ecosystem uh why this initiative as we were discussing that in many of cases this or

especially the mid size and the smaller M they were telling that that in they invest the money but they do not Understand what they actually uh they understand the requirement but they do not understand uh what kind of Technology will be AP for that one and and in many cases what happens that after buying that after 6 months they could understand that this is not what we are doing we required so there is a mismatch this event will be basically to build together the convergence what Mr M was talking about this familiarize if some We

can have uh a discussion on that one and the second thing that what we talking about that bringing convergence taking it on the next level and other thing also it's very interesting which Mr M was telling about that we can uh if we can uh get some idea from the biger that they have already developed something if they want to transfer into the found so these are the two three areas we will be discussing on so over to you Sita for your introduction Sangita is on call so Amar yeah please if you can give s

so I am Amar Mohammad I handle BR ir and ESG at M microphone and uh yeah to learn and help the smaller mfi in any way if we can uh sass s you are on M uh uh should I ask our CTO as well to join this please do please do yeah hi s if you can introduce yourself S yeah my Shi I work as a CTO share micr Finance I joed about three weeks ago share um prior to that I managed various positions in F bat financial and FK small Finance no hi hi everyone

good morning uh this is Vish uh Chief business officer with C silicon I'm pretty sure I mean aware of C silicon so we we provide Technology Solutions col man to I mean we have the range of clients right from the startups to you Know which is like 25,000 as well so I working globally with more than 300 financial institutions yeah so here to learn and here to contribute I mean we have got few use cases outside India where we have worked with Association which C have shared with you right so the study right so we

would we would love to see you know what are the possibilities to replicate and how we can go forward you especially supporting The the small yeah so and and I'm sorry I'm I'm I'm on International roaming right now on the road so might be having bad Network so allow me no problem no problem 15 minutes yeah no problem uh Bal thanks also on the road so sorry uh couldn't put myself on the video because yeah uh so uh I'm BAGI and I I'm with Axion which is a nonprofit Organization predominantly come from a technology and

data background used to be the CTU of ujan before I move to a we're working with saden primarily to help in you know understanding what do these smaller mfi need right from a point of view of Technology uh essentially what we heard in earlier conversation just to you know I'm expanding a little bit what we heard in earlier focus group conversations was more like uh there is definitely a need For technology right we I'm also trying to help in understanding and framing the question there is a need for technology um obviously mut it's great that

you're on the ground because you all have progressed a lot um the it would be interesting to see how do these small institutions start the journey because the cost of technology for them is still prohibitive right and then there's cost of security very prohibitive many institutions have just three member Team Four member teams and they are just managing with whatever systems that they have because that's what they can afford so it be interesting to understand how can there be lowc cost Technology Solutions to help them graduate to a level wherein they feel more confident and

being able to deliver that's kind of the only pitch that we trying to think or consider that how do we you know leverage uh yeah lowcost technology yeah I'll pause now because that's kind of What I wanted to lay on ground yeah thank you very much so um Amar is your CTO coming online so uh he would have joined but there's this weekly call going on for the heads of department so he said he'll try to join but it's difficult so just attend and update him so that's the thing uh so somebody from warre has

joined yeah can you please introduce yourself I think about com either he couldn't understand all this He is on mute he's not Rohan are you able to hear us kindly kindly introduce yourself Rohan if you are there is here sug from another sugam is from Shar only I think oh no uh no sir I'm not from Shar I'm actually from from m2p we recently met in this event along with okay yeah yeah so anyway let us start we have Already lost quite a bit of time so um so what I mean uh if we are

trying to organize a um one interface between the technology technology company and the micr finance institutions and these micr Finance institutions we are actually targeting the operation side and Technology side not really the CEOs of the institution because these CTO they can give us possibly better Insight that what is working and what is not working What s does uh technically is when like discussing the things with the right kind of people you know if we are bringing uh only operation side of people and uh not the CTO for the technology side we won't be getting

much Insight so this is where we stand and today I mean Jan I think December mid December or something we are going to organize a small uh event in your um in Delhi only so this is the background of the thing so what are the things we Should be uh discussing linon Paul where are you from yeah I am from mut micrin okay okay along with Amar yeah okay yeah yeah we both of us from M microne okay uh so if I can ask um Sashi from this I mean he is representing the smaller mfi

segment so Sashi what exactly the challenges of the smaller mfis and what support do you need from this side to to take your technology a step ahead see one of the big challenge which We're trying to address now is uh um the route optimization and the tracking um like you know Center manager goes from one Center to the center and you know he travels a lot and does a collection so optimizing his route to save the fuel cost in an automated way we are doing it now anyway we are doing it but no it's a

manual process there should be a system which should suggest of you know there Monday to Friday there Are several Center meetings and based on the root optim based on the lat Longs locations system should suggest and there should be a manual changes but no root optimiz in an automated way and track it and all the expenses related to the fuel cost and all should be in in an automated way if it can come based on the know how he travels then that will one it will bring in the efficiency it will save time in the

Travel number one number two it will bring down the cost for the company and increasing the profitability this is one big challenge we trying to address right now it is compan manual we should automate that this I think sh micro many micr Finance organ are facing this Challenge and there are many of the organizations are you know doing this manually they talk discussions and you know they do a manual planning but if There's an automated solution for this both in planning and also uh expense settlement for the center managers this is a huge cost okay

uh I don't know how you want to take it up uh you want me to pitch in to Sashi reply just just okay so this is very very interesting Sashi I think you you and me we discussed this sometime I think long back right uh we this side so um we we have you know we have tried working doing a PC on something called V Loot uh so there are some Techni challenge we are trying to solve what is happening is you know if you look at a field officer in a month you know if

you if you look at a decent size mfi uh with maybe like a th000 CR or 2,000 CR portfolios especially with a large mfis what is happening is the number of HS in a month because that is linked to their Center meetings right so uh whether they are doing it uh weekly or fortn nightly or they going on a monthly uh Center Meetings right so based on that what is happening is the number of hops in a month if you have to optimize them for a month right it might come across let's say 150 200

hops in a month right from the branch to the centers and various this thing right so we tried doing it with Google and all uh so with Google Map and uh the limitation is on the number of op now we are looking at some of the other alternative like TomTom and that map my India and all that so we are Looking at that as an alternative and it's specifically with the U State what Sashi B said um looking at uh the Tada one and also the optimization so with one of the mfi we did it

and what they are actually uh you know the number of Center meetings and everything that they were doing it in six days we were able to optimize it in three and a half days so with the dynamic route planning so and dynamic root planning also includes you know Delegation of the officer if the officer is on the plan or unplanned Le uh it also includes their uh you know travel allowance it also includes let's say for example if branch manager is assigning in a day some you know maybe the guy doesn't have a center in

plan but he has to go and collect some document right so even that is that is being taken up so we are just trying to work it out and solve some some licensing issues and uh working it out with uh this thing but Yeah I mean they we have done the POC with couple of mfis and it was a very good success actually so uh Shashi this is s um you know I'm from mut basically the problem of optimizing the rout that you have already said right this is something for us uh not only as

a pu but we've actually soled it uh for three of the mfis right where in the operational Hassle and they being able to understand where they need to go First it's already being solved for we can connect offline more to discuss this in detail and also showcase you a solution that is already working right that is already being used yeah so this is something that is already available uh happy to connect with you offline no the thing is that this is not a business deal going on this is you know we are discussing about where

are the gaps so there is one of the gaps and um you know we need to from your end you Need to tell and I would also like to hear from Vin that what challenges are you guys seeing from the other side so now we have understood this sashi's major problem Sashi apart from this one do you have any other problem any other challenges and is you know for a microphone a perennial problem the connectivity you know at the rural level when you to implement any online solution the connectivity is a challenge to reach to

the last mile or to the Branches or the center meeting level if you have to do the transactions by online that's a next big challenge at the branch online what I couldn't get you know connectivity in the sense I'm talking about internet connectivity internet connectivity uhuh at the branches uh possible at the center level as well but at the branches the connectivity so because we work in a rural areas say not just not we get to work With the rural areas where you know the connectivity now you know we are using a dongles Broadband is

not available we are using a but that connectivity is still a challenge though go and a have reached to many rural but still that problem is not completely solved so these two are the major challenges one is a root optimization in an automated way to bring in efficiency and profitability to decrease expense and number two is a internet Connectivity in the rural branches these two are the major hurdles to implement any space solution B There is a I mean there's a question from B to you that sorry uh Sashi just to add uh you know

from onboarding do you all have any challenges around Customer onboarding because typically you know I mean I come from an og1 background just to try to compare smaller mfis we actually have this and craft silicon is also on the Call so we have this glow and it's a device where uh you you can actually do offline onboarding with integration to kyc and all that right but it becomes a little uh expensive at time so is there I'm just trying to get a sense of how is your technology advanced and I'm not expecting response but is

that a topic that we need to pick up like in terms of saying how do you create lowcost onboarding solutions could be open source could be cheaper Solutions with Offline capability is that something that we should delve a little deeper on right uh and the second related question is on collections right how robust or strong is your collections and do you see any opportunity there yeah are two pieces that I wanted to get a sense of just to unal your challenges sorry yeah one is offboarding another one is Repayment on boarding yeah huh see like

yeah my question was more like you know in some organizations right by default we end up having these digital field applications which allow for onboarding seamless onboarding with offline capability kyc right problem we can address see connectivity at the center location where the members you know yeah that can be addressed by designing the system to work in offline both for the onboarding And also for the collections that this can be handled by a system architecture so you don't have a challenge I'm not talking about that but I'm talking about the connectivity let's say you know

uh you have come back to the branch and from there from the branch branch has to have the internet connectivity right the our M Branch got it so okay and the first step which we spoke about you are saying there are no challenges is there there you're saying That you have the underlying system to support that is that what it is or there we don't see challenges uh not much the challenges major challenges at the branch level connectivity okay okay and you have a digital field application for onboarding and all that we are now migrating

see we have some old system is there now we are migrating to a new system so the new system it is going to come up is will be much more robust and you know has the Capabilities of offline online Etc we in the transition phase now yeah so you were slightly as a m maybe maturing into that so do you see any challenges that you feel other mfis or small people will face because what I I'm trying to understand right like in our focus group one of the things was people may not know which solution

to go for right and the second there is a big problem that's a big problem and then there's a cost conversation and the third thing is Support right I don't know Sashi who the vendor is but I don't want to get into that but some of the people also spoke about ongoing support right if the system goes down or you want some small changes to be made the support for Smalls institutions also suffers so I'm just trying to get a sense of are these point of conversations to have because it then presupposes an opportunity for

us to think of is there a shared service model which will be useful right that Will be useful for the small MF know we should all the small mfi should go in a SAS model for cost in the capital and also you know to save cost monthly recuring also it will be lesser because not just cost the challenges will be on the hiring also because we need to have the it man the servers you know to provide a proper support so that mfis cannot attract the qualified Specialists they can attract so yeah it's better to

go with the S SAS model I you know let Vendors in the market who provide services when craft silicon provides I think there is a lot of other vendors also who provides on a SAS model yeah most the company smaller they are going in a SAS model only but in that case also what are the challenges are we seeing see you know the uh clients see client should have access to the data the database H so most of the vendors know they they don't some they don't get that The client do not get the access

to the data so one is that see know when you're selecting the vendor there should be proper as long as you select a proper vendor and should have due diligence and know all the text and if you have a good vendor then there won't be issues but the even after getting a vendor also that challenge will be on the database client have access to the 100% access to the database and challenge with this SAS Model is you know that that server will be the hosted model it will be shared service shared so multiple M will

be hosted on the single server and giving the access may be a challenge got it so we can unpeel this we don't want to since it's an one hour call we don't want to solutionize it here but that's the second coners that we can have now uh I know someone else is also joined so mut Finance uh I think Linson is on the Call so just as a conversation to take it from you know from Sashi what do you see Lon just to give a sense of what would you feel com uh you know like

a take away from the workshop because we're trying to figure out challenges right so any challenges that you have seen in your technology or concerns because we also have supply side Partners right we've got two partners m2p and craft silicon the call it will also help in them showcasing what they Have right to just bridge the gap now so any we will bring other we will bring other this companies also uh so we need to understand the gaps that where we can work on and one of the things Mr M was also suggesting that in

any case you have developed something and as a big agency and if you want to um like support the smaller ones with your technology so these are the two things possibly we can start discussing with you um is also here so you guys can Cheap in okay okay yeah um good morning everybody so as far as we are concerned it's actually we have a homegrown setup for LMS Lo and all okay and also the other part we do have a lot of other Integrations with other Banks all all those things are in place but now

it's actually us we all considered know it's actually the latest regulations for example like uh every every week or every month or even uh know the RBI or the other people will be already Releasing new circulars that will be a major challenge because now it's actually we need to integrate those changes with the current uh whatever applications we already have uh that is one of the major challenge the time to complete the um know installation and implementation that is one of the challenge everybody will be facing so that's why we are mostly depending on the

inhouse uh people so that's why we are Maintaining our in-house development team for achieving these targets that is one of the point and also we are 100% On A Cloud mechanism on cloud platform uh that is one of the advantage we'll be having and the other part know as far as a pain is concerned uh it's a one issue it's like L1 lzo devices you know that U mandates for this one that authentication of kyz and all that is one of the challenge everybody is facing one and regarding Sashi already mentioned about know the connectivity

and all and also the VPC or the cloud sharing mechanism that we need to ask the people to make it separate like know minimum at least on a separate VPC and also on a separate DB for each and every cannot be shared no yeah that is one of the point I'm having here I hope that is um surprised no the other thing which I wanted to ask is like see you are a big micr Finance institution right not a small now as Your journey progressed uh what would your suggestion and advice be because you know

it'll be interesting to hear from you on the ground later is what would the journey typically be right like someone who's got just two people three people in house code developed and they have an losos LMS and then they challenge always been that if they need to progress to an Enterprise grade system right which is slightly more reliable because of people Talent there An investment in a cost right what is the direction on decision making that would be done in terms of what solution should I buy because there's more benefit right would be interesting to

know your journey uh maybe on the ground or even briefly here it'll be great I already highlighted notes actually The Regulators are asking for launching the new new changes within a time frame that will be everybody is facing that need to Be tackled so uh that's why we already know investing on in-house development team and that is one of the major thing and if the the the partner know who who can be dependent on achieving this Target on time then it is okay fine that is one of the major challenge actually the dependency will be

on the partner and then partner need to be delivered on time will affect our business now so yeah sure that is one of the major challenge We need to look into otherwise I hope it's actually all the other things the integration with the call ending or whatever know it's actually the facilitating the things um that that's okay that's um can be reduced the issues know whatever coming up on the go we can we can handle it well but as far as the major challenge will be on the SAS based or Pass based or a homegrown

system or a partner dependent system that is a code I hope I can't say anything on that Because no it's actually anyway ultimately the investment on it need to be there and then yeah yeah sure because know the dependency on the partner will be a high risk item but suppose a reliable partner that will help us to go ahead because know we also have many other partners like know each and every integration we are also depending on various Partners like for example like paperless transactions or even yeah the KY thing uh lot of Integrations are

There so the dependencies are there but no it's actually that need to be handled on time and then that uh that capability need to be built because it's actually the coordinating with the people and um whatever challenges coming us and time know uh time being we need to handle it otherwise we will be in trouble sure yeah thanks thanks yeah we so what you are trying to tell is actually that one is the s model for the smaller mfis It can be there but with the scale they have to be sifting for their homegrown thing

one thing but um second thing what I could understand from you that one of the challenges you were seeing that this Regulatory compliances and um including it in your technology uh possibly uh these are the two very important thing you are talking about and integration with the coal ending yes that's a Perpetual thing what we are seeing in this segment because this your coal Ending thing is coming up and like BCS the there are many coenders now everybody has their own technology so you have to I mean accept that one for the business you have

to there is no other way you have to do that one so this is one of the thing that how we can we can uh build up a system where it will be uh it will be faster to adapt all these things yeah sure yes so I mean if I can ask from worth reach somebody was [Music] from worri who is there it's Rohan but he he said he is traveling Maybe is somebody called sh subani he is from ANA so can you hi good morning yes sir yeah what if you can introduce yourself it

would be good yeah this is sh from take of in development inhouse development of Technology yes okay okay so one of the Things we would like to understand from you what are the predominant challenge of of of Anapa uh in the front of Technology uh means we did not find any challenges but yeah we have challenges like baj was explaining that the cost is too muching back on the placing of the security tools like database related is dam is important is important now model is too expensive so this is more cost is coming In the

infra security right means I personally Fe that when we first just pilot we started then we found that okay so much attack on the financial system right Lacks of ips from the lacks of ips which is attacking and then we restricted long and then uh now we placed all the security tools in place now which is costing too much that's the only one challenge okay basically the security Side you were talking about H more in securing the application right so um I would like to Now understand from uh both sugam and vinish what's your observation

you are there vinish is quite a veteran in this segment and he is working with couple of mfis many mfis in fact so what's your observation what are the challenges we are seeing and what are the challenges you are seeing in in in in like a near future Uh sugab you want to go first sure I I'll go first I think one of the major problem statement I will not call it a problem but that's the general scenario that has happened off late it's related to compliance right the ability of any platform to be able

to incorporate uh changes being asked by the regulator at a record pace is something uh that is becoming increasingly important right uh for example be it be your code should be in A in an esro account to give Comfort to all the small and big nbfcs that is something that is becoming very very important so compliance is taking Center Stage uh and to all the industry fors that you speak to uh this is something that everyone wants to be incorporated at a record time so it cannot go into anyone's bait mine or bait VES company's

Sprint plan it has to be PID and taken at Hoy so this is this is something one of the major thing that I see second Point uh in terms of CH I which was hand highlighted by Shashi as well uh operational efficiency needs to increase right because this is a very very high operational kind of lending that we are into so to ensure that the iteration of the field staff that is there is reduced how can you reduce it by giving them solutions that solve for their problems uh there is no blueprint that only one

particular thing will work for anyone or For every company why because everyone is actually operating in a lot of Tire three Tire Four rural areas so that local connect whenever someone is developing anything in terms of an app or any solution I think this is something that is also very very important so operational efficiency I would say uh everyone requires uh in terms of sourcing also in terms of collections so we feel that uh compliance will be taking Forefront more And more as we speak as it has happened in retail lending Etc as well it

will happen in mfi as well and uh second point is obviously your operational efficiency so one of the questions would be like if we are over dependent on technology is good but if we are that's what we are seeing in the market that if we are using too much of technology and everything we are losing the like the touch with the people what how do you See so let me just pitch into what has just said you're absolutely right the balance has to be there in between the right Tech and right touch right so you

know I mean micr Finance you know I mean it's not like a normal usual retail or lending right so so definitely that touch touch has to be maintained no matter what but that's the essence of the whole business right so that has to be maintained no matter what that's why we also try to strike the balance I mean Definitely during the co time we came up with the selfon boarding application with uh you know opening one more Channel and it it it has seen some good success but at the same point of time uh you

know if we look at the pattern while the people have people have been very bullish about it but over a period of time they are operating on you know in a very very balanced manner to maybe like you know 5% 10% wherever the wherever we are operational in the sell on boarding Application not more than like 5% kind of a thing uh if you look at it from an mfi sector maybe msme yes maybe 10% but self on boarding is predominantly limited to less than 5% right so the channnel is there now the idea is

that how do we get that the uh institution uh while still maintaining the uh touch points with the end client now one of the question that came up earlier uh in between in-house versus uh thing I'm not speaking from cicon perspective but I'm Talking in general right so that completely depends on the policy to policy of different organizations because of maybe they are they are part of the big group they are part of uh you know there can be variety of reasons but the end end end of the day they're not in the business of

Technology they in the business of lending right so so that balance has to be strike there are other challenges also in terms of if you look at it you know replicating the best Practices so and also looking at from investment perspective or I mean know definitely when when you have in house system versus uh you know industate system so that's a different Dynamics Al together from different different angle perspective I don't want to get too deep into it but yeah that's the thing another thing what sham highlighted and he very rightly pointed out is on

the compliance side right so what we have done over the last 3 four years is like One of the best practice that we do is like irrespective if there is a guideline coming from SRO or coming from statu body we we we deploy it and we deploy it free of cost so those those changes are not chared so those are those are done irrespective whether the client is on on Prem model fast model or SAS model so those those none of these these things are charged and but now it depends on the organization so the

service enablement and the technology Replication is there but at the same point of time it now depends on the organizational policy to adopted right so the sooner we I mean if you look at for example the fire or if you look at the overall the things I don't want to you know get too deep into it uh we all know uh you know where we are at this point of time but it it depends on the policy to policy organization to organization so that's there now coming to some of the other things you know Whether

the decision is on the SAS whether the decision is on the past once again there is economy there's commercial there's a long-term Vision there are multiple dynamics that play a role over there but from from us our perspective while we are definitely trying to uh you know make it as economically viable as possible there are certain compliances that needs to be adhered no matter what so I'll give you one example let's say for example in our Case we give minimum three production Dr and so that you know compliance perspective it is met all the security

parameters are met so let's say any SAS client in our case need not to spend on any uh compliance thing like let's say for example we do all the VAP twice a which is required from RBI perspective we do ISO 27k bcms uh swap one type two source code review product Benchmark so all these are all these are audits are done by us and they are done by RBI Impaneled Auditors and we extend those certificates to for ours as clients and also in case of Enterprise clients like VIP for the application and all those certificates

we extended so so you know we can we can make it like and similarly like for example uh you know earlier there were there were very few rect Tech involvement right let's say only credit bureau or ID verification and all that but now there is a plora of service you know somebody rightly mentioned you know How do we go about eign and all that so those integration we have formed the alliances so the integration cost goes down and these are pre-integrated services available in our LMS losos collection and all so that even even from a

client perspective it's like a 360° environment rather than looking for indiv individual partner or technology partner to explore and to to finalize when we are offering like a 360° then it becomes very easy so All are offering it as a as a service directly okay so one thing um I want to know that how many of these institutions are um using this eek kyc setu I mean developed by um npci do you have any idea uh numbers C I need to run I need to check on that but ekyc definitely you know there is you

know how many of them has actually gone through the um you know fulfilling the RBI requirement and no no no this is this is a product Developed by npci it is not that the one the setu one yes so it's the easier process if you are regulated entity you can get it easy I mean easily you can you can many not not very many uhhuh not many as I was also thinking that there may not be many uh because npci they're pushing it but you need to check why is it not happening but anyway perfectly

fine so and also just adding to what V was saying when it comes to compliance the VAP report Etc right I believe that is a s s thing that any technology provider since we were sometime talking about what should an ideal mfi company be looking for when it goes out to hunt for a vendor right to do its uh technical know house so basically anyone who's running this business the VAP reports uh these are SRO and they should be made available to any mfi if someone is looking be any small big or any organization because

regulator is Becoming more stringent so one of the most important things is whenever you go to any vendor if they don't have a v report let's say available readily then then that is probably something that everyone needs to look at very very seriously uh yes there are version involved and every version might have a different VIP but one VIP report for example I'm just saying VIP should be readily available so that is one of the major things that anyone should look at Uh like he was mentioning that you know they have so for example we

readily have then second point the stats that you were talking about right uh ekyc set is one but there's another for example a a solutions that are getting implemented right there are couple of NBF who actually implemented Au at AU as well but that is only for larger organizations because then it comes with a lot of cost as well and you need to have an approval from the regulator also You need to get a license from them and then only you can obviously apply for it so this is also something that large organizations can actually

pre- integrate for example in our solution it is pre-integrated if someone has an a Au license you can actually straight away use this solution yeah so these are some of the things that any m I looking for a vendor should definitely look for I can add one more point on top of you this V is very important and Ds are Also important absolutely yeah yeah absolutely makes makes sense yes and and I think what what should happen is ideally instead of any client coming to anyone and saying can you give us this there should be

a section available wherein they can thems also download bage reports right someone has to report to Bureau it shouldn't be coming to any vendor and telling them that boss please give me that report there should be an option in the panel Download like we do uh and uh simply move ahead in life uh so that reduces dependency on technology also because iall was mentioning that how much of it is completely technology dependent so I think this should be available in the system itself so that the manual intervention becomes very less and regul aspects care yeah

one more is that esro account which is Like orms providers to be facilitated that account also be like absolutely I think this has become uh this is now part of the regulation as well yes yes this is also added in reg this is added in regulation for example we do it off the sh we' already implemented in three of our places because uh you can't now move ahead without this so this is absolutely required it's it's readily available yeah Okay thank you some Dr Cel and good afternoon Sangita ma'am this is Manoj from worri if

you allow can I put in my thoughts also yeah please thank you uh good afternoon everyone uh this is manoe Singh uh uh CEO of worrich micro capital and uh we are uh though new to this segment and evolving uh this is a very very important topic which sadan has brought in and uh if this is like you know Technology managing uh business any business without technology is like running on a single uh like so there's no doubt that technology is the it's it's from become becoming a enabler it is also becoming core of every

businesses especially the financial services my few thoughts on this are that just like the micro Finance there are small micro Finance medium micro finance and obviously the large ones uh we have challenges that you know when we Go to acquire the system to run our mfis you know at the very low end you don't have the stability of continuity you don't know whether tomorrow those systems will run or not because you know there are price implications also whereas you go to the higher end you know obviously because of the features and the stability the cost

are so high that the small and medium micro Finance may not find it cost effective to go for these Solutions so They are into a catch 22 situation that they cannot afford the higher ones whereas the lower ones are not very stable for them in the long run so while uh you know to get out of this cats 22 situation there is a a thought process okay let's build it but that also is not a very viable uh option because if you are building it you need to have have your in-house team you need to

have your in-house uh capabilities so that also will uh Encompass you know additional Cost for the mfis to go through that route so obviously you know buy becomes a better option but there are some solutions required from the service providers in terms of getting or getting inclusion of I would say mfi small mfis into the uh uh good uh software Services just to give an example you know and this these Innovations are already happening in the market not so much in the mfi part like if you have to do a basic accounting for your Organizations

you have of the Shelf product like tally available for job whereas for the big organizations obviously you have sap Financial to take on to the Erp and get into the entire uh gamut of financial planning so this is where the service provider needs to come in and try to put in some innovative solutions so that the entire spectrum of the mfis are available to be able to pick and choose as per their cost structure as to what Services they would like to have it for them to roll on you know while some of the structures

pricing structures also need Innovations from the uh from the uh software service provider like you know you could have a pay as you go kind of model where it is a variable cost for the organization rather than a onetime uh a onetime standard cost which is causing an entry barrier for these organizations to get on into a robust uh software Services so uh this is where you know sadan uh actually can play a big role in terms of looking at the Spectrum of the mfis what their needs are because you know while people across the

various mfis are using various kind of of software Technologies these can also be standardized along a whole model of standard reporting you know this is something which has become very important in the context of the uh Macro environment which mfis are going through so uh it is time that we as an industry have some standard reporting structures which use the same input data nobody like if I using a input data for some uh reporting structure it should be used by the same mfis across that talking about kyc you know and uh then uh credit check

uh these are these are the you know the basics and the fundamentals which is like a bread and butter for mfis you cannot run if you Don't have these kyc or credit check or disbursement and all so it should be like you know breathing for the mfi it is not to be something which should be something outside of the daily ecosystem it's like daily breathing you have to do that but the problem comes in the larger U Management in terms of multi geographies reportings your uh code of conduct uh your regulatory uh so this is

where the technology plays the very critical role and I think if only the Service provider are able to segment their offerings based on the size and the capacities of the mfis this will bring in a big big change in the way even the smaller ones operate and try to uh bring in what you call a formal way of managing mfi whoever it is whether it is a small mfis mid mfis you know every it becomes a very formal and a uh professional way of managing the things so these are some of my thoughts uh uh

do Sabel and uh ma'am So you can take it forward thank you very much thank you it's good to hear from you and uh these are the very genuine challenges I mean so B we have also Dr deepankar R deepankar is researcher on the bfsi technology side from nibm so I mean we are also bringing him in as he has done a lot of researches on this segment it would be good to get your their your view as well so I know you are here for 5 10 Minutes because the class is going on but

still if you you can introduce yourself a bit then it would be good for all of us we should know the team we are working with yeah okay okay yeah so uh yeah so good afternoon to everyone sorry I mean I somehow missed out I had incl a full morning I was busy I even have to go to a session right now anyway so I'm an associate professor with nibm so I am with this nibm for almost 20 years now Uh so I work intensely in the areas of digital banking payments digital lending fintech blockchain

AI digital Financial inclusion these are some of the areas I work intensive intensively I do a lot of research Consulting training Etc on these areas and I have a lot of Publications research Publications in these domains uh so yeah so so I I basically I'm interested uh in this digital Financial inclusion uh space and would like to contribute in whatever Manner uh to this Gathering or or this whatever you're trying to come out with or propose some research on this particular aspect of mfi uh and how technology can create an impact on mfis and and

to achieve the broader Financial inclusion objective right because because commercial Banks traditional Banks they are they are using technology in a big way and and and they have found lot of merits in using technology to to reach The Last Mile and in that Journey even we see a lot of fex partnering with banks alongside with banks to achieve this objective uh so yes so it will be very interesting for me to to to join this group in whatever way I can contribute uh whatever knowledge I have on this particular area yeah thank you very much

thank you very much yeah it would be definitely depending depending on you on your insights that how can we take one step Ahead of these Financial inclusion and technology so um it's good there is one word suggestion I mean uh bology is that would be good to converge on a low cost technology and shared service cont uh construct with modular pricing but one problem may be there this is kind of SAS model you are talking about but in SAS model which we could understand that you know the adaptation of the compliance which we get now

and then may be a Problem yeah I mean it's I I was just trying to jump to a solution not required but I was just trying to hear from worth rich and which is what s we also heard in the other focus group discussions right at the end of the day uh he put it very well right small mfis have a demand issue uh for sure but from a supply side in uh the service providers may not find it economically viable right so how do we construct a model wherein uh like he said right if

You have five six mfis who are of the size of birth R if they come together right there's a demand aggregation happening and then the sh shared service model gets viable so it'll be good to get a sense of what is it like an m2p or a craft silicon think as viable models to provide a service level which is in line with the topnotch uh you know mfis to a set of you know mfi so what is that kind of a uh sweet spot right which will then Help in solving for what wri came up

with because otherwise the problem remains a problem and yeah that's kind of where I'm thinking about is to you know as a workshop we will want to get a sense from m2p CRA silicon in terms of the shared service construct commercial construct at least some guidance right and then what is a viable solution for them yeah it'll be good if it's like a working yeah resolution for that right then we Can go away with a possible concept of a shared service construct okay one of the points which I mean possibly we can U it it's

objective of us that how can we develop a convergence and like a data aggregation of small mfis and develop something so this is one of the takeaway can be from our this envisioned uh workshop with CTO what are what are the other things two one one one thing which you want to see in the in our this um uh interface in know this Workshop um if I Can ask linon to start with linon one thing you want to you want to get as output from this interface um can you please clarify what I'm trying to

understand that as a objective so this your we could understand there is a demand Supply Gap over there there is the the small big mfi I mean small mfis they do have different set of this thing there is a problem in um what you call this compliant side everything what exactly one thing you want to um get Take away for you from this Workshop yeah we are organizing a workshop yes if I could uh you know answer this uh uh you know while while uh having a if if I can if I can come back

to you yeah after round yeah yeah sure because I'd be looking forward to hear from you yeah okay yeah theop now it's actually the people coming from various backgrounds and the are also on a different scales uh lot of B ts are There like know it's actually the technology um know implementation of various Technologies various Partners various Integrations various regulations how we can tackle it because not actually there will not be any standardized format to follow up correct but ultimately we need to go through such a different kind of scenarios and need to set a

standard like no it's a uh for example like already we have discussed about the ekc thing no yeah For example like that and also the integration with the various parties and also a common platform like no later on no it's actually any blockchain kind of a thing will be coming up also we need to adapt everything correct so a common standard of platform uh can be adopted by everyone uh and also it need to be like a know a SAS model uh with uh the other options available that is good but no a takeaway should

be like know uh sizewise SM or mid segment or big Segment uh technology we will we will be talking about now all are same correct yeah so the takeaway will be know that should be know helping hand to all the people to tackle the issues whatever coming up uh due to the especially know the mandatory things will be come up through already we discussed about escrow and all other part ES right so that's the way the maturity will be very much needed for everybody To handle the issues whenever it is coming up uh that is

one of the main uh area need to be focused okay you talking about creation of supporting mechanism right correct correct correct one only mainly sadan is also standing for that purpose correct of course yes yeah okay yeah thank you very much uh so V one thing as a takeaway you want to see see definitely as a takeaway what I want to see is that how we can Collaborate together number one uh the focus should be more on uh I mean if you are planning a workshop tall and Sita maybe I think what we can look

at it is having maximum participation from uh from uh uh you know startup mfis or the small and medium ENT uh mfis I mean depending upon how you want to define the threshold maybe like less than 20 CR or less than 50 CR and all that so maybe that those that participation where we don't even have the right it team or Even you know on the namesake perspective you know maybe one person or two person is there on the it side or maybe with the see direct cxo level uh engagement is required so that we

we understand more from a business perspective than from a technology perspective because if we if we understand from a business perspective solving it through technology is easier coming up with a common platform that's easier I mean uh and and I have already Shared with you and baji and everybody else that we have done it in some of the other countries uh the case study and all that I have already shared uh so I mean definitely with bit of tweak B bit of uh redefining and all that we can definitely I don't see a reason that

why we can't uh uh replicate and what I think Mr Manoj was staying is some of the very very valid points um and I I think it's pretty doable it's pretty doable I don't see a reason why it cannot be done okay so you are very right we when we were discussing internally uh one of the suggestion came that not only CTO you have to bring the business people also uh technology is only the means and business is the thing which we want to do support the people and the poor people is the thing which

we want to intend and for that reason technology how technology can help us in different segments I mean you're perfectly fine Yes and you and exactly same problems iall we we solved in Ethiopia you know I've already shared that not only in Ethiopia but we started with Ethiopia we replicated in few other countries exactly same problem where ethopia already basically you know what happened is Ethiopia we already had some of the larger mfis but there were like you know so there are two SRO bodies so one is called a mfi which is Association of Ethiopian

micr Finance institions right so amfi we came up with a joint model right uh joint model in terms of deploying one common platform which is kind of a shared by smaller mfis so there are about right now I me we started with about 22 right now I think with we have got about 30 plus uh mfi linked to it and they all came to India they looked at uh I think when Satish s was there you know you me and Sati s we also had that discussion I think 2018 2019 time frame if you remember

right right right right so those I'm interested in Ethiopia because I've set up a fund over there ENT okay yeah yeah so amfi people you know you know you must be knowing them very well they are the association right so so same thing and exactly same thing we were about to close it in Myanmar before this uh coup happened so we almost closed it in 2020 everything with uh I forgot that name of that Association starting with I think n or M something which one uh the Association in Myanmar okay yeah I'm not getting the

aration correct can help us yeah so we almost closed it the same model over there as well but then this coup happened and everything else okay so in fact un was very interested un CDF and un also very interested in replicating something like that but yeah I mean that that's just a you know long story cut short but yeah I Can see that definitely happening in India as well okay thank you very much you're talking about collaboration and convergence and also bringing together business and takech people for the right perspective not not only not only

not only business and uh technology service provider but I I suggest that we also bring in the rec Tech provider so we can bring in the people from eign and ID verifications and and credit bureau and all that I mean there I mean everybody Would I'm pretty sure that they would be very very happy to collaborate perfectly fine we were thinking about that one also when we started we were discussing that whether we need to bring some external agencies like government and other so we'll we'll definitely think over it ponder over it it would be

good to get them only the thing that you know that uh it shouldn't be like a basan baji and when we are going everybody has done the leap Service it has to be actionable correct it has to be actionable 100% actionable you know C I'm already saying that we have done it I'm pretty sure m2p must have got some use cases we have got few use cases uh we can bring in people like legality Gaza there can be so many of them right I mean we can bring Ana Mark why not I mean we can

bring look at the right actionable rather than rather than talking about just you know on the paper and on the The so it's very very much doable and actually I also we were also thinking not to build up a MAA around it we want real discussion over there and take some actionable point which will helpful and also so sug one thing you want to see your takea away you are looking for uh sugam you are on mute yes I can you guys hear me now yeah yeah s sir just give me a moment I think

I've moved out there's something Contivity issue just give me like 30 seconds 30 seconds please yes hi uh sorry for this I think uh totally agree with what um Vish was also saying that there has to be collaborative approach uh another thing that he was highlighting red right so for example we acquired a company called Cen right uh who does exactly all the Reds from your ekyc from your ckyc from your uh Adar verification so on and so forth uh so probably their participation Can also be very very helpful and all the mfis that are

coming over there they should be able to see as to how a seamless a solution can be uh and how off the shelf if they take any vendor they would be able to solve for it so this is something that should definitely be considered also in terms of when when the workshop is happening uh probably either it gets split into two parts uh I think that be really really helpful in terms of I'm not sure how many people Are participating in terms of vend I could only see Venetian me right now on the call but

if there are more people then uh if if let's say hypothetically if if 20 people are participating probably 10 it can be a group of 10 10 each uh wherein one set goes to one first uh and another set goes to another set first uh we've actually also uh you know set up a lot of companies uh in Africa region when it comes to mfi uh we are Working very closely in the southeast Asia region uh when it comes to your Philippines Indonesian market and that is something that I would just request and recommend just

to have a very very fruitful conversation uh wherein the redtech company and losos LMS providers can probably get it split so that it's a useful uh you know spent of time for everyone there so if you guys both of vinish and you if you have any suggestion whom to bring in we have Definitely a list if you have something in your mind whom we can bring if you can write us back as well apart from I mean all of you need to help us to build up this agenda that's why we are have organized this

uh so even Lon Amar ven s mean everybody so thank you very much you talking about this once again convergence so uh can I now um I mean request Um also so last thing when when are we finalizing this is it on 5th of December I see the date or is it getting extended which one possibly 5th of December not fifth of De Sita can tell us yes yesth 5th of December so each of you can WhatsApp me the agenda that you are proposing so that we can consolidate and know put a agenda that works

for everybody yeah and Balaji is there already Balaji gone out and once again come Back disconnect get the call yeah yeah so Balaji is here to pull up everything and put it in agendas Balaji and it will happen on it will happen in Delhi it will happen in Delhi yes that's what we are thinking great uh okay if possibly by 20th if we can have a set agenda I think it will help all sure sure sure sure sure even before even before we are looking forward to set up the agenda and other things yeah and

um so if I can now Um come back to Manoj manj if you can we have only five minutes sorry interrupt up yeah I'll certainly take less than that so uh my my takeaway and uh you know the way forward is that you know this technology will uh play a role at the various level of what we call as pyramid you know at the bottom of pyramid it will bring in uh obviously efficiency and in the long run it should bring in uh because uh manually you cannot run a large operation so it Should uh

transform into a paperless mfi operation that should be the long bottom of the pyramid transformation this uh this particular group should get second is obviously you know uh when you need kyc credit check and uh you know Payment Systems you need to get npci you need to get uh you know the credit bureaus and the ekyc partners into the system so that the basic fundamental transactions which happen on a daily basis is is frictionless and it it doesn't create Any uh you know stoppage to the entire operation it becomes a seamless operation at the top

of the pyramid obviously it gets into data analytics and brings you know AR artificial intelligence machine learning and so on and so forth if we can reach that level you know we can really transform this entire industry into a not into a just a credit delivering industry but knowledge industry so that should be the ultimate aim of this entire group thank You okay got your point uh so um baji if you want to contribute anything kind of take away because you will be the integral part of this overall exercise we are working with axtion uh

I mean you are our Member One of the members and also like we are working on this technology front uh from long time so if you want to put forward it's fine and if you don't want to put forward at this point of time when we'll be building up the agenda if you I mean Definitely you have to contribute in it yeah so let's build a agenda we've got a good idea from ke stakeholders right right and my sense is that uh the more uh from like the small mfi like was already stated will be

good to add more in the Forum so that we get a yeah uh good outcome uh yeah so we can think of it as three broad topics one is current Demand right which is basically a uh around the mfis and what they're thinking we heard From birth Rich we may end up having similar conversations so one's on the demand side U the second would be the opportunities that you've seen which is how this is being stalled outside right the shared service construct something then challenges in the shared services itself is something that we can talk

about so I have some broad thinking around it we can circulate within the current set of people who are on to call just to reflect on this and whether they Find this meaningful perfectly fine so you should be hearing a rough construct in the next two days from me uh I if you feel comfortable I can send it to the to this group if else I can just send it to you and send it okay so one of the thing is that familiarization there are many technology available uh in our system so how to display

their thing their thing as well we need to think a bit one is I Wonder whether mut Finance being where they are right will they be open to sharing their journey and how it'll be interesting for the small mfis to see that you don't have to be worried you can start small and grow it be interesting as a case study if they are willing to Showcase right where they started how they started uh how have they grown what kind of key decisions that they took in terms of Investments it's like a good learning Experience as

well for others right because one of the challenge that I've always seen is even as an taking the step of investing right always is a challenge in terms of how do you take that decision in terms of the benefit coming out of it and therefore we should kind of take these ke decisions it'd be interesting to get some sense agree it's a case study one yeah yeah yeah yeah what I Wanted to tell you that uh all of us have some kind of thoughts no so let us down all those thoughts and please share amongst

ourselves so that we can come up with a very robust kind of agenda so it is a one day workshop and we should be able to at least utilize it properly utilize it properly and come up with some way forward so it is not just the only one technology Workshop we will have many but we have to set the foundations proper so what b is telling Us Sita he will circulate a kind of very rough agenda yes for our consumption it would be good we would be looking forward Balaji for this support so so can

we wrap up because the other meeting is yeah thank you so much everybody thank you everyone thank you we very from you guys thank you thank you thank you very