Catholic Priest Severs Satan's Hold On 13 Year Old Boy... The Exorcism of Roland Doe

Lights Out everybody. What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Lights Out, baby. I'm your host Josh. And I'm your host Austin. And I'm the producer Daniel. And the crew is back. Or rather, I am back. Yeah. uh after missing I think my first Lights Out episode ever. >> I think that was the first one ever. Yeah. >> In like 5 years. >> I've never missed an episode. I've canceled a few in the past, but I was like I I woke up that early that Monday morning. I had a full-blown sinus infection. Like couldn't

see out of my right eye. Just pressure in my my sinus cavity here. And I was just like, there's no way I can do this. And as some of you guys pointed out, you could hear >> my I was a bit nasly for a couple weeks. >> Yeah. >> And uh the power of antibiotics. >> I love antibiotics. >> Amazing stuff. >> Yeah. >> Got some emoxicillin. And nice. >> It was like 2 days and I was already like I know miles better than >> When you have an infection and [music] they give you the

antibiotics and it then it starts to resolve. You're like this is [music] magic. >> Yeah. They figure this out. >> Yeah. It was like my uh my uh snot was green tmi, but it was not green after 2 days. It was crazy. It was like boom. [music] It just killed whatever bacterial infection I had and it was gone. >> Imagine like a thousand years ago you got that sinus infection. What would you just keep suffering right now? I don't know, man. I don't know how I could have gone on like that for >> forever. Cuz

that was my thinking at first. I was like, it'll just go away, >> right? >> It's like once you're infected, it doesn't just go away. It gets worse. >> Yeah, it can. Yeah. So yeah, feeling a lot better today. Hopefully I'm sounding more clear. I I see I can take nice deep breath, guys. And uh yeah, we've got a crazy one for you. The uh demonic possession continues uh with another uh particular exorcism Story that actually inspired The Exorcist. And I thought for sure over the past 5 years, I've covered this or we've covered this

and we hadn't. Yeah. No. Somehow. And this [music] is like the OG like big exorcism story here. Um >> it's wild and it's uh it's one ailment that antibiotics can't. [laughter] You know what I'm saying? But this story is wild because there are so many eyewitnesses that were a part of this. um and a lot of uh uh people connected To the the Catholic Church which is seen as kind of an authority uh organization on exorcisms explicitly. So I mean having all these people sign off on the documentation of this actually happening is pretty wild.

But we'll get into if we you know we think what was real, what wasn't, was some of this a little bit exaggerated? Were the eyewitnesses seeing what they were seeing? Uh but there are some crazy events that happened over the course of Like a month too. I think it was it was like a long possession case here. Yeah, that that was the thing too that you know when researching this I kind of learned for some reason I had it in my head that exorcisms are like a quick like not a quick it could take hours

maybe a day or a couple days but >> it's like a session right? >> Yeah. It's like it can go on for months and even years >> before they're actually able to expel a Demon >> uh from somebody. And this is about which Roland Doe is a pseudonym for >> uh his actual name uh which >> I had never heard before either. I had heard Roland Doe before. I actually heard his real name put out there. Yeah. It wasn't really released until fairly recent history. Um but yeah, what is it? It's Ronald something. Ronald Edwin

Hunkler is the real guy. >> 13 years old. Uh when he was battling Satan himself, actually, which is crazy, too, cuz a lot of times you see with these demonic possessions that it's a particular demon, you know, and some of the other ones that we've covered in the past. But >> the exorcist in this one actually believe that they were doing battle with Satan himself. Yeah. >> Which is on a whole other level, >> right? Yeah. >> It's like, damn, >> it is. Yeah. And then St. Michael gets involved like that. >> We have a

biblical battle at play here >> uh for the soul of this 13-year-old boy. Uh so yeah, this is a crazy one. Uh >> so buckle in. This is the exorcism of Roland Doe. So this case is one of the most famous exorcism cases in the world. Uh the events of this case went on to inspire the film The Exorcist. One of the most iconic horror films of all Time, I'd say. Amazing film. >> So good. >> But Roland was given this pseudonym to protect his identity, especially because he was a 13-year-old kid at the time,

which makes sense, right? They want to protect his identity. They don't want unwanted attention his way. So much of the story was uncovered from a journal that one of the attending priests kept during a month-long exorcism. So, we got to go back to the beginning of Roland's Story to fully understand how this all came about, but he was the only child and he was born on June 1st, 1935. And by January 1949, he was a young teenager living in Cottage City, Maryland with his parents. And uh Cottage City, just a modest suburb outside of Washington

DC. Friends and classmates described Roland as hyper. He had trouble focusing and he was a bit, you know, a bit of a trouble kid. Uh definitely wasn't the best kid in the class by any means. Uh but I mean 13-year-old boy >> teenager years. Yeah. >> Kind of a Yeah, I was a bit crazy too around this time. >> Same. >> With no siblings, he spent time with his aunt Harriet whom he loved dearly. She lived in St. Louis, but often came to visit. Growing up as an only child, he often had to play with

the adults in his life. Uh this included his aunt Harriet. And as he got older, Aunt Harriet Introduced Roland to some of her hobbies and spiritual beliefs. So you'll see the shift here. She was into spiritualism, which is a movement that believes that a person's awareness persists after death and that the dead can actually be contacted by the living through various methods. So early on, she taught Roland how to contact the dead through a spirit board or a Ouija board. And you know, this was really the time that spirit boards, talking boards were really Becoming

popular. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because of the spiritualism movement specifically. This was the probably the easiest way to conduct a conversation with the deceased. Yeah. During the 1900s. And while many saw these boards as a way to speak with loved ones, others warned that they open up certain gateways that allow evil entities across from the plane of existence and actually move into our physical reality. Which this was my Mother told me about this because she said she used a Ouija board once as a child and she was like it's the worst experience ever. She's like, "Don't

ever use one. Demons can come through." And so that scared the [ __ ] out of me as [clears throat] a kid >> until recently as an adult we did it. And >> do you are you a bit less worried about them now? >> I And I think too >> like if it's all if there is actually something to the Ouija board, I think >> if you treat it with respect and you do it correctly, you can protect yourself in a way. You can you can use it in a way that's not going to just

open you up cuz depending on what you do, >> you just say, "Hey, anybody out there?" [laughter] >> Yeah, come on. Which I definitely have disrespected the spirit board before. So, in that that way, I think you can uh Minimize the damage maybe a little bit, but >> maybe that's why my life is falling apart. >> I've been meaning to tell you that like did you ever think that ever since that night you've all been downhill? Yeah. So Roland, you know, he's getting introduced to the Ouija board. And on January 15th, 1949, Roland's mother began

hearing what sounded like scratching sounds coming from inside the Walls of their home. Roland's father rashly thought, "Come on, guys. The scratching is just an infestation of rats or something." So he called an exterminator to come out to the house to check it out. But the guy could not find any source, any evidence of an infestation. So Roland's parents figured, "Ah, it just must be old Roland acting out, performing a practical joke on them for attention." Possible. >> Possible. Have you ever lived in a place With an infestation of like mice or rats or anything?

>> Uh, not full time. >> Okay. Yeah. The the only place that I've really lived where there was a huge mouse infestation was actually the first place I lived when I moved to Denver. And I will say that that scratching noise they lived in like the space between the basement ceiling and the first floor >> and that the scratching noises are so Disturbing because you know you're I'm like okay there's definitely mice up there. But it it is such like a this this sound that kind of just gets in your >> kind of nails on

a chalkboard a little bit >> and especially cuz they do it at night too at night. >> Yeah. >> So you're agitated and then you're Hearing this disturbing noise that you can't see what's going on and you're like oh my god I have to deal with it. It is a terrible noise. So I get why it's so >> one step further with rats, >> right? That's even worse. >> Bigger little hands. >> Disgusting. But as time passed, this scratching continued, and the scratching soon became Full-on knocking, and Roland's mother was less convinced that Roland was

making the scratching noises inside their home. And she actually began to believe that maybe their house was haunted. And about a week and a half went by and the noises continued. Then Roland's mother sat him down and told him that his aunt Harriet had passed away, which Roland was shocked by the news. And he ended up going to his bedroom to grieve. And while crying, he Noticed that the scratching noises had crept through the house and actually moved into the walls of his bedroom. So before he wasn't hearing him in his bedroom, and now the

scratching noises have migrated to the place that he he sleeps. So a little little terrifying. >> Yeah. Since his aunt's passing, the odd noises seemed to increase in volume and frequency. And at one point, while Roland was in bed, he heard what sounded Like marching noises moving across his room directly toward him. So, it's like someone like stomping towards him. What was once scratching inside the walls turned into knocking and banging, much more aggressive sounds. And once during this mayhem of noise, Roland's mother screamed out, saying, "Harriott, if that's you, knock three times." The family

then reportedly heard three distinct knocks on the wall. They figured that the noises must have been The spirit of Aunt Harriet, who had somehow traversed from the spirit world into the world of the living. But they couldn't understand why she would be terrorizing the family, especially Roland, whom she had loved so much. They later considered that the noises weren't Aunt Harriet at all. The noises eventually escalated to physical movements. Things like utensils, plates, and chairs began shifting and spinning across the floor. The family also Witnessed vases levitating and flying through the air. And this bizarre

activity always seemed to occur when Roland was nearby. Not really any rational explanation for that other than somebody picking [ __ ] up and throwing it. >> Throwing it. Yeah. Yeah. So, no longer mice or rats at the We're into something else here. >> One night, Roland went to bed and his entire bed frame and mattress began to Shake violently. The mattress then began pulsing up and down with the headboard banging against the bedroom wall. Luckily, the bed eventually returned to normal, and Roland was able to fall back asleep. Later that same night, he woke

up to the sound of a screaming voice that sounded less like a human and more like a demon. The voice soon became his own, low and guttural, far beyond the range of a human voice. Neighbors, including Roland's classmates, would Often hear the screaming and banging noises inside his house as they passed by. Rumors then began to spread and many of the parents figured that it was just Roland it was just this hyper teenage boy that was acting out. But while in school, some of his classmates even witnessed papers and books flying off his desk. And

witnesses also reported that his desk once began sliding across the floor with him still sitting in it. And some described it like a planchette Moving across a Ouija board. Teachers accused Roland of just being disruptive. You know, he had this reputation being hyper and troublesome. So, they figured it was just this teenage boy troubled and he's just acting out. But Roland always insisted that it wasn't him. Still, no one believed him. And eventually, Roland stopped going to school entirely. Back at home, he began waking up every night, thrashing around as if coming out of an

intense Nightmare, and his bed would continue to shake and his body would begin to contort against his will. His parents often heard him screaming and crying in in the middle of the night. So they eventually took him to a doctor and they thought Roland might have been ill or possibly, you know, suffering from seizures, something of that sort. And the medical doctor failed to find anything physically wrong with Roland. But he did report the boy as quote Somewhat highrung. >> What kind of diagnosis is that? >> Yeah, right. Well, nothing wrong with old Roland, just

he's a little highrung. Yeah. All right. His parents then took him to a psychiatrist and a psychologist. But since this was, you know, considering 1949, psychiatry, psychology, it's it wasn't what it is today. And the social stigma surrounding mental illness was much much worse back then. Regardless of that Stigma, the psychiatrist couldn't really find anything out of the ordinary with Roland. And from both the psychiatrist and psychologist, he was given a clean bill of health, >> which kudos to his parents for actually taking him to medical professionals. >> You don't always see that. >> No,

you don't. And you know, even though psychi psychiatry and psychology much much different back then. >> Yeah. At least they gave it a shot, you Know. Um I'm not sure really what they could have done with him here. Uh, I would have loved to be at a fly on the wall of of just being talked about. >> Yeah. >> I also wonder in these cases since he's a 13-year-old, is it more like his parents speaking for him >> in in those settings? You know, we can't really know, but >> True. Yeah. Like how much did

they actually >> dive into Roland or like was he even alone when they was talking to him? Was it just his parents speaking for him? That's a good point. >> Yeah. >> But at least he saw a doctor cuz sometimes they don't even do that. True. As you guys know, all of us here have pets at home. >> Yeah. >> Austin has a wonderful dog who's actually here in the studio. >> Yeah. She's sleeping in bed. >> She sleeps right over here. >> Danny's got two cats. >> Mhm. >> I've got three cats and four

dogs and three rabbits. It's It's [music] crazy. >> That's a lot. >> That's a lot of animals. But you All my animals I've had for a while. But my cats especially, I've had them since basically college and that was a long time ago. So they're all over 10 years Old now. One of my cats, Tucker, he's got uh basically IBS for cats. >> Oh. >> So his uh in uh digestive system gets inflamed and he has these flare ups and he's just like >> he'll eat food and then just completely like poop it out and

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So, they reached out to their church and they got in touch with their minister, Reverend Luther Miles Scholes. Uh he was a pastor at St. Stevens. Evangelical Lutheran Church. And Reverend Scholes had an interest in parasychology, interestingly enough. And he considered that a poltergeist may Have invaded Roland's home since poltergeists often make bizarre sounds and they can physically move objects. We also know they're known to follow around troubled teenagers and kind of feed off of uh their energy. And that was kind of my first thought when when learning about this was like this seems like

poltergeist activity. It seems like uh an invasion of some some type of of poltergeist. >> Yeah, we've covered cases very similar To this. It's always a teenager, too. And it's always in a family home and objects start shifting around and >> noises and all that kind of stuff, >> but doesn't really explain, you know, like the contorting and things like that and the guttural sounds like that. Yeah, exactly. >> Then on February 17th, 1949, they arranged for Roland to spend the night at Reverend Schulz's house. his wife uh went into a separate room while the

Reverend and Roland slept in the spare bedroom together. According to Father Raymond Bishop's journal, Reverend Scholes and Roland slept in the same bed together. A bit bizarre here. >> Yeah, I don't know about that, but guess for the sake of this investigation, he had to do what he had to do. Although, he could have sat in a chair. You know, there's a lot of other ways to do this. I >> don't really understand this. I think it Was more because they knew something was tied to the bed itself when he was sleeping cuz you know

the violent shaking and shifting and moving and contortions. So, I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Okay. But in the middle of the night, the bed began to violently shake and scratching noises could be heard in the walls again. The reverend ordered Roland to go try to sleep in a large chair on the other side of the room. He then tied Roland down to that chair and soon after the chair itself began violently shaking and it shook so hard that it tipped over backwards and Roland fell to the floor. Then the reverend set a spare

mattress down on the floor beside his own bed and he ordered Roland to sleep on that mattress on the floor and sure enough the crazy bizarre activity continued. That mattress on the floor began sliding across the floor on its own. It then moved underneath the reverend's bed and Began violently smashing Roland up into the bed springs. Crazy. What's just imagining this is insane. >> Yeah. Just what on earth? And the reverend completely shocked and confused. He's like, "What? What on earth is happening here?" And so he ended up sending Roland back home. He's like, "I

don't want this in here at [laughter] all. >> Get this out of my house." He's like, "All right, I've had enough." But then He continued to monitor Roland and the activity over the next few days. And for 4 days straight, the reverend found three distinct scratch marks like the result of a claw scratch across Roland's body after each night. Again, furniture continued to shift across the floors, and a picture of Christ on one of the walls would often shake. That's a sight. The reverend then ruled out the possibility of a poltergeist. He kind of figured

at this point, especially when Christ's picture is kind of singled out and getting shaken on the wall, that this is something worse. And the fact that we've got now scratches on the body, uh, you know, he figured we're dealing with some type of violent paranormal entity that was beyond his capabilities of being able to identify and expel. So, he told Roland and his family, "You know what? It's time to seek out the experts and go talk to a Catholic priest." cuz he figured at this Point we might be dealing with full-on demonic possession and I

am not equipped to deal with that. I do love this like the Roland or the excuse me the I do like this that it's the Lutheran Reverend. He's like go check out the Catholics. They can deal with this. >> We're not dealing with this anymore. >> Yeah, >> it's beyond our capabilities. >> Yeah, that's exactly what Roland's family did. They reached out to a priest Named Father Edward Albert Hughes from St. James Parish. He was an assistant Roman Catholic priest at the time and the Catholic Church is known for its rigorous church sanctioned exorcism. And

while meeting with Roland, Father Hughes noticed that the temperature in whichever room Roland was in often became very cold. And when Roland would fall into a convulsing trance, the room would become very hot. So, major temperature shifts going on. He also witnessed a telephone fly off a desk without anyone touching it. And then Roland started making snide remarks towards the priest. Yo, and these remarks soon became obscenities, which I wish we knew exactly what they were. >> I know there are we'll get a little more into it, but the uh you can see like this

is the direct inspiration for the exorcist, right? Cuz how she says demon. Yeah. Like all the remarks at the priest are so funny. So, Father Hughes obviously start his his spidey senses are going off and he's like, "There is something dark within Roland here and I think it could possibly be possessed by the devil himself. This is terrifying." >> Yo, so just a little background, the Catholic Church sees the devil, also known as Satan or Lucifer in the Bible, as a fallen angel who rejected God as the Almighty and he was banished from heaven. It's

a pretty uh metal story if You go back and read the biblical scripture. It's crazy. Uh the Catholic Church believes that Satan truly exists and actively seeks to destroy the works of God. He often tempts people into sin, but other times it's believed he can possess individuals and take control of them. Through observation, Father Hughes was eventually convinced that Roland was possessed by Satan. And like you were saying, that's bizarre because we see a lot of demonic possessions, like this is A demon. Father Hughes was of the opinion that this was Satan himself that had

somehow invaded this 13-year-old's body, which that had to have terrified him. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like if you really if you really believe in this, right, >> you are going to be absolutely just beyond yourself when if you think you're staring Satan in the face. Yeah. This is the strongest adversary possible. >> Yes, >> that's Yeah, that's terrifying. >> He believed that while Roland and his aunt Harriet were performing the seances with a spirit board, Roland had opened himself up to the devil. So, he ended up giving the family some holy water in a in

a bottle and uh blessed candles for the time being. And Roland's mother tried to use them, but the holy water flew across the room one evening, smashing against a wall. and the blessed Candles would be either mysteriously blown out or the flame would actually like violently shoot up into the air when lit. Father Hughes then contacted Archbishop Patrick Ole from Washington DC. And though it took ample evidence and time, Father Hughes was able to convince the Archbishop that Roland needed an exorcism. I from what I can understand that getting the go-ahad for an exorcism back

then was way easier than it is now. It's Really really really rigorous for I mean I think it's because they started to get this reputation that it's like demonic possessions were just everywhere all the time. People thought something was wrong with them. Boom. Demonic possession. Especially after these movies started coming out, everyone kind of had it in their mind that possession was just kind of a part of life. But they've really cracked down on it. From my understanding, at least in the US, uh, Exorcisms are quite rare to um, >> strict criteria. >> They do,

which we will get into later. And and >> yeah, so optics, right? Right. >> For the Catholic Church, >> right? >> If they're just like Satan's everywhere. Yeah. they're just like on the street corner like doing an exorcism on somebody. You know what I mean? Like >> that wouldn't be a good look, >> right? And it's important to note there are different forms of possession that they believe the the they kind of classify different forms of possession which also requires different forms of exorcism. So we'll we'll get into that a bit later, but I think

it's just important to consider the time period here with this. >> And again, we're toeto toe with the devil himself, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. this is a big deal. Uh so at the end of February or maybe early March 1949, Father Hughes took Roland to the psychiatric ward in Georgetown University Hospital, which is a Jesuit facility in Washington DC. Reportedly, he underwent psychological and physical testing here. But Father Hughes also attempted an exorcism while Roland was restrained in the bed. Father Hughes began the first exorcism, but things quickly took a turn for the worse And

Roland was able to slip out of his restraints. And this is crazy. According to an eyewitness in the Georgetown hospital, Roland grabbed a sharp spring from the hospital cot that he was resting on. If you know, if you've ever slept in a cot, the springs are kind of attached to the sides. So if one's loose, you can kind of pick one off and the end of it, since it's like a hook shape. It's like a really small metal hook at the end of a cotr. So he took one of those and he took that sharp

pointed end and sliced open Father Hughes's arm. He had dragged the pointed end from Father Hughes's shoulder all the way to his wrist. And this wound required 100 stitches. That just that's what >> crazy. Oh my god. >> That is that is a severe wound here. So he really dug in there. I mean to go deep enough to need stitches like pry it damn 100 stitches across his arm. That Is intense. Uh, and many who knew Father Hughes said that he was never quite the same after this encounter. He really feared Roland and he knew

by now he was just incapable of helping the boy alone. So after this failed exorcism, Roland was discharged from Georgetown and he returned to his family home. So after this failed exorcism, Roland was discharged from Georgetown and he returned to his family home. But things only got worse from here. And one night Before bed, he looked at himself in the mirror where he noticed bloody wounds had been scratched into his chest and the wounds looked like they spelled the word Lewis. His family thought the word was a sign to take Roland to St. Louis. His

aunt Harriet, as we mentioned earlier, she was from St. Louis and so had Roland's uncle also been from there. They had some extended family who lived in St. Louis. And when asked when they should go, the word Saturday appeared on His body. And when they asked how long they should stay, burned into the boy's skin. We're not exactly sure if it's a burn. Some people say it looked like a brand of some kind, but also like a scratch, but it said 3 and 1/2 weeks. According to the witnesses, sometimes the words appeared on his back

in places that it wasn't really possible for him to have put the words on his own body. He also seemed to be in immense pain every time the words suddenly kind of Appeared on his skin. So that is extremely bizarre. >> This creeps me out, man, cuz it's like there is no way to explain this. No, >> this is an unexplained phenomenon right here. I mean, >> I can understand marks and >> scratches and >> right >> especially in the forms of words on the body. Like God, >> that's next level. >> Out of desperation,

the family moved to St. Louis cuz they hoped that if they follow this paranormal message that maybe they'd be able to figure out what was actually going on with Roland and also they had some extended family out there so they'd be getting some additional support on that front. But ultimately, they're hoping to find some answers. The family arrived in Belnor, a suburb of St. Louis in early March 1949. Roland and his parents stayed with Roland's uncle's family, who were more than happy to take the family in. They loved Roland and they wanted to see his

condition improve, but unfortunately, he couldn't escape the torment that he had been experiencing back home. It followed him there. Two aunts, four uncles, and four cousins all witnessed the paranormal activity surrounding Roland while he was in St. Louis. Soon after arriving, the words, "No school," appeared on Roland's skin. I'm not going Back there, guys. That's interesting. Yeah, keep him out of school. I wonder if that's, you know, why why do you think that is like not going back to school specifically? >> Devil doesn't like school. >> No education. >> Keep them stupid. >> Yeah. >>

Yeah. That that's a a very curious one. You know, but his parents believing that their son is possessed at this point, They're like, "We need to listen to this thing." So, they kept him out of school for the time being. >> Yeah. >> But everyone also noticed a drastic change in Roland's mood. Even when he was out of his trances, he didn't seem like the happy kid that he once was. There was one particular night when he went to bed and the activity started up again. Everyone in the house could hear Roland screaming. loud thuds

came from The floor of his room as his bed shook and vibrated, which imagine being in a house and somebody's experiencing this. This would be terrifying. >> Yeah. They're like, "Oh, cousin Roland's here. Yay." And then all night screaming and there's like crazy noises coming from the bedroom. >> And to make things worse, scratch wounds started appearing all over his body. And these scratches were witnessed by seven different people in the house. That's Crazy. That's the crazy thing about this particular case. So many eyewitnesses. >> One of Roland's cousins was actually a firsthand witness to

the madness. She was attending St. Louis University and was a practicing Catholic. She knew a Jesuit professor there, Father Raymond J. Bishop. And so she reached out to him and told him about her disturbed cousin. She believed that he was afflicted by a spiritual problem. So, Father Bishop spoke to his colleagues and they all Agreed that he should meet with Roland and observe him at night, which at night is when the activity seemed to be the worst. >> Devil likes darkness. In early March 1949, he came to the home and first he blessed the home,

especially Roland's room. He also placed a small relic of St. Margaret Mary on his pillow. And when he sprinkled a bit of holy water on Roland, Father Bishop noticed that the boy stopped squirming around for a Moment. Under observation, Roland also suffered from more scratches in the shape of zigzags across his skin along with intense stomach pains. Father Bishop also observed the boy's mattress shaking repeatedly for several minutes. Then on March 11th, Father Bishop later returned to the house of 52-year-old World War II veteran, Father William Bowern, who was a fellow Jesuit priest and a

pastor of St. Francis Xavier College Church. Father Bowurn's great Niece described him as probably one of the finest men I ever had the privilege to have known and both priests observed Roland for an hour and a small relic from the night before [snorts] crashed into the bedroom mirror and the scratching continued on Roland's arm. After 11 p.m. the priest recited a few prayers over Roland before leaving. And it seemed like at this point he had finally calmed down a bit. But as soon as they left the house, the bizarre Activity started again. The loud noises

came from the room. The bottle holy water the priest left crashed into the wall and broke. And the bookcase in the room slid across the floor and basically ran right into the bedroom door. The priests later returned to the house and began witnessing even more bizarre activity. They thought the activity might still have been caused by a spirit of Roland's deceased aunt. And sometimes when they called out to the aunt by name And commanded the activity to stop, it would. Aunt Harriet had also passed away between 2:00 and 2:30 a.m. And they noticed that it

was often around this time period when Roland's bed would actually shake. But they would all soon come to the agreement that the entity was only disguising itself as Aunt Harriet, but it was in fact something far worse. I know this is one of the big warnings for using Ouija boards because you know they say like oh you you can be Speaking to an entity that you think is the spirit of your dead grandma mom aunt whatever >> but yeah it's just a disguise cuz the demon knows it's a trickster and it's going to be like

yeah I'm going to get in there I'm going to yeah I'll pretend to be your aunt >> I'll pretend to be whoever you want let me in let me in >> Josh you ever wake up in the morning and you're just like, "Oh my god, I'm ruined >> most days these days." [laughter] >> And I have to figure out why a lot of times. >> What is it? I can't put my finger on. >> Well, it's good to be able to boot up rocket money that early and see. Thank God I'm financially solvent. Everything's going

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can help. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over $880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the apps premium features. So, cancel your unwanted subscriptions And reach your financial goals faster with RocketMoney. Go to rocketmoney.com/lightsout today. Rocketoney.com/lightsout today. raamoney.com/lightsout. So this paranormal activity continued for several days and the priests were at a complete loss. So father Bowern referred to the book Roman ritual which this is a lurggical book published back in 1614. So this thing has been around for a

long time. And this book gives Detailed instructions on the Catholic right of exorcism. And much of the ritual of exorcism just simply involves prayer. I mean, you've probably seen it before in the movies and whatever. They just kind of stand around the afflicted person. They might lay their hands on the person or have a have a cross or crucifix and they'll just continuously recite prayers. >> And sometimes they do those prayers in Latin, right? >> True. Yeah. Especially back then they were doing it in Latin. Absolutely. >> This book's written in Latin, isn't it? Or

>> Yeah. Yeah. The original Absolutely. was. And I know up until I can't remember when they finally got rid of Latin in the Catholic Church officially. But um for a long time, for a long time, everything was in Latin. Um I think it was Jo John Paul II finally said, "Okay, we can't do Latin anymore. People are Checking out in church. Um. >> Oh, weird. Yeah. Still says it serves as the official language. >> It is the official language. Yeah. >> But they have transitioned to >> whatever like the native language is now in wherever

you're performing mass. >> So it's become extremely rare these days. But fun fact, uh there are only about 150 appointed Catholic exorcists in the US today. Back in the 1940s, there were possibly fewer than a tenth of that, but many priests took it upon themselves to just perform the right when needed. You didn't actually have to. Yeah. >> Another fun fact, >> technically the pope is an exorcist. >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, he is the he's the highest authority. I mean, and people have seen him, at least I remember, what was it? Uh, Pope Francis

back in I can't remember. They've people Have seen him kind of perform an exorcism like in front of people. Um, and I mean, it's not as intense as the movies make it out to be. It's not as intense as this situation. And like we said, there are many forms of possession and there's uh many forms of of uh what is required from the Catholic priests. So yeah, he's been seen like you know laying his hand on people being like you're healed and saying a prayer. >> Interesting. I just chat GBT this and Says no the

pope cannot perform an exorcism as a matter of official duty. >> H >> I don't believe chat GBT. >> Yeah, I don't believe that either because I'm pretty sure that if the Pope wants to do an exorcism Yeah. [laughter] Oh, okay. So here's here's a story from 2023. Uh so this was in an interview with Pope Francis. He said he called an exorcist when he was an archbishop of Buenos Aries and warned that the devil is always trying to attack everyone. The Holy Father, as he's done many times in his pontificate, emphasize that the devil's

real. Interesting. So it sounds like they could, but generally they don't necessarily do it themselves. when we cover we covered Father Amort who was like the Vatican priest's exorcist who like you would just send him off to him I guess also the pope probably has a million other things to do but yeah this Was back in 2013 Pope Francis solemnly laid both hands on the head of a young man in a wheelchair Sunday and prayed intently over him for several minutes but the Vatican later clarified he was not performing an exorcism even though it it

appeared like he he was I also think the Catholic Church has just been uh after the boom of like the movie The Exorcist and everything and that the the spotlight of of uh pos demonic possession and how big of A thing that became. I think the church really tried to reel back on it, especially in recent years. I'm not exactly sure why, but even this like the Vatican had to come out with a public statement and be like, "No, no, it was we swear it was not an exorcism." Uh, I don't know why they're so

touchy about it. >> But you still see like Father Vincent Lampert making the rounds on podcasts, >> right? Yeah. >> Like big podcast, too. >> Yeah. Still a thing. Like I uh I saw him on the Shawn Ryan show and cuz cuz Shawn Ryan is a Catholic and they were like going talking quite a bit about exorcisms and everything and he's like a Vatican sanctioned exorcist. >> Yeah. >> So it's interesting that like he's allowed to like be out there publicly like telling exorcism stories. And I wonder if those guys, those priests are Kind of

treated as the black sheep >> kind of rogue [laughter] rogue a little bit. Yeah. >> Yeah. This this guy Lampert, he's he's all over YouTube, man. We've tried to figure out if we could get him on the show, I'd love to talk to >> We need to get If anybody knows an exorcist we can get on the show, uh please hit us up because we would love to interview an exorcist. Doesn't necessarily need to be a Catholic Exorcist either. >> True. Yeah, true. >> There's other people that do exorcisms, but >> although it would it

would be sweet if we get a cath a Catholic exorcist in here. >> So, yeah. Speaking of Father Vincent Lampert, an exorcist priest from the Arch Dascese of Indianapolis. He spent 3 months training to be an exorcist and has assisted in over 40 exorcisms. Uh this guy is also in uh that HBO show. He has quite a lot of interesting things to say about it. But um the individuals that he has specifically dealt with were given complete physical and psychological evaluations by specialists and he took a complete life history of those individuals. So he divides

demonic activity into two primary categories, ordinary and extraordinary. If it's extraordinary, the activity falls under one of four subcategories. These are Infestation, the presence of evil associated with a location or a particular object. Vexation, physical attacks by demons or evil spirits. Obsession, which is mental attacks, persistent thoughts of evil. And then finally, possession, which is when an evil spirit takes control of a person's body and treats that body as if it were its own. So exorcisms are very common for those first three subcategories And they're really easy to perform relatively [music] to a demonic possession

exorcism. But exorcisms are much more rare for demonic possession. The church has established four strict criteria that must be met before a person is deemed to be demonically possessed. Person must have the ability to speak and understand languages otherwise unknown to them. They exhibit extraordinary human strength beyond the normal capacity of the person and they Have an elevated perception. And then finally, they have an aversion to anything of a sacred nature like Bibles or holy water. We've all seen, you know, the exorcist. They throw the holy water on the skin, it burns. Other symptoms that

Father Lampert specifies are bodily contortions, a change in a person's voice or physical appearance, unpleasant odors, and temperature changes in a room. He also witnessed people foaming at the mouth and levitating in midair. >> Father, crazy. Yeah. Isn't that nuts? >> And seeing people crawl up the wall. >> He said he's seen somebody crawl up the wall like a spider. >> I would love to see that, >> right? >> But maybe not. I don't know. Yeah, that's crazy though. >> Yeah, it is crazy. Get that on video though, man. Come on. But Father Bow contacted

Archbishop Joseph Ritter and he presented evidence Of a demonic possession and requested an exorcism on Roland Doe. However, he requested that the Archbishop please choose another priest to perform the right. He did not want to do it. He felt that he wasn't qualified to perform the exorcism. But the archbishop sanctioned the right and then he urged father Bow to do it. So he reluctantly agreed. The archbishop wanted the exorcism to be discreet and not draw attention. And maybe that's why they don't uh they Don't have video and and photographic images of this because they kind

of wanted to keep it on the down low. But Father Bow suggested that Father Bishop keep a journal of the events that followed because they had this idea um that other priests could then refer to this journal if they were ever faced with a sim similar problem. So almost like a little bit of a guide book or a study book for people going into an intense demonic possession. But then on March 16th, 1949, Father Bow, Father Bishop, and Walter Howerin, a seminary student, arrived at the family's residence. Father Bow warned Father Bishop and Walter that

during the right they were susceptible to becoming possessed as well. Sweating a little bit. Yeah. The men agreed to perform the exorcism as long as necessary, even if it took days. The goal was to permanently expel or purge the devil from Roland Doe. After the men entered The room with Roland, Father Bowin placed holy water in a crucifix next to the bed. Then he wore the typical purple stole, a symbol of his religious authority and grace. He then began reading from the Roman ritual and then began praying. This included the laying of hands and invoking

the Holy Spirit. While Father Bowder recited prayers in Latin, the other two men screamed when they noticed bloody wounds in the shape of bloody scratch marks begin appearing Across Roland's skin. They watched as more wounds appeared on his skin, and Roland winced in pain. The goal of the exorcism early on was to get the demon to reveal itself so it could be purged. But as the prayers continued, the demon refused. The men then noticed a wound in the shape of the word help appear across Roland's chest. It looked as if the wound had been burned

onto his skin. And as time went on, the priest demanded the presence to identify itself. And this is When the scratches began forming the shape of the devil in the word hell. Then four different X marks appeared across his body. This exorcism went on for 9 hours straight until Roland became exhausted and fell asleep. The men still didn't believe that the exorcism had actually purged the demon. If anything, they believe the possession had an even stronger hold on Roland than before. So, their prayers continued even as Roland slept. When they sprinkled holy water And began

reciting prayers involving St. Michael the Archangel, Roland's energy returned and he began violently thrashing in his bed. Roland told the priest that he had visions of fighting a huge red devil who felt slimy and was very powerful. As the visions continued, Roland got more violent. The men tried to pin him down and they all agreed that he had more strength than what was normal for a 13-year-old boy. And you know, he's he's a scrawny kid. Yeah. You Know, he's not a big guy whatsoever. When things later calmed down, the priest agreed that they would have

to continue the exorcism some other time. So, they came back the next two days and continued the prayers and laying on of hands. By the third day, Roland's family noticed he was back to acting like normal during the day. Sometimes when his trance would break, he'd even begin praying. And in those moments, his family would pray with him, giving Thanks for the mayhem finally coming to an end. But by the night, Roland was back to his erratic and dangerous behavior. The priests returned and continued the ritual, and they pinned another relic to Roland's pillow. Roland

tried to bite anyone who got near him, so the men had to hold him down. As the exorcism continued, eventually Roland began dry heaving and asked the priest if they could open the window so the demon could Leave his body and escape the room. As Roland was heaving, he eventually began vomiting and he then fell limp on the bed. The priest saw this as the purging process being successful and Roland then took a shower and everyone noticed he seemed to be in much better spirits. When asked about his experience, Roland said that when he was

heaving, he saw a huge dark cloud of vapor come out of him. It formed a pale figure in black robes that then disappeared into a Cloud. The priest then left the home thinking that the demon had been exercised, but it still wasn't over. An hour later, at about 2:00 a.m. that night, Roland felt strange sensations in his stomach. The others in the house heard him crying out, saying, "He's coming back. He's coming back." The family then called Father Bow at 3:15 a.m., warning the priest that the possession was not over. The priest later returned to

continue the ritual, Willing to go however long was needed. Roland had returned to the usual thrashing and shaking. He also began urinating on himself, and he complained that the urine burned. His stomach and throat were also in severe pain. Although Roland rarely swore, he began saying things like, "Go to hell and god damn you" to the priests. Oddly, he would also begin praying at random moments. In other moments, his words became more abusive. At once, he Mentioned he had a vision of the year 1957, so the future, and he saw one of the priests in

hell. He then pointed to his genitals and suggested very vile sexual things to the priests. So things are getting much crazier out here. I cannot imagine the smell of that room as well. On March 20th, the fifth day of the exorcism, Walter Howerin saw something incredible. The entire bed, according to him, levitated 8 in off of the ground. Roland's family had also Reached out to Professor Frank Bub Senior, a scientist and mathematician who worked on the Manhattan project to observe the exorcism. He had also witnessed a nightstand levitating and he also believed there was some

form of electromagnetic energy at play that really couldn't be explained yet. But this exorcism dragged on and the priest thought that moving Roland to another location would help the process. So on March 23rd, the 8th day of the exorcism, They moved him to the rectory at St. Francis Xavier College Church. And this was on the St. Louis University campus. While Father Bow recited more prayers, three men had to restrain Roland as he tried to break free and punch Father Bow. He also urinated on himself, screamed, farted, and even began singing in a beautiful voice. Whoa.

At one point, he overpowered the three men and broke William Howerin's nose. Another time, he punched one of the others in The groin, causing them to keel over in pain. We're ramping here. Getting intense. >> God. Singing, screaming, farting, peeing, pissing, punching, and then just violence. Yeah. >> Yeah. This is uh this is getting crazy. And by day 11 of the exorcism, they returned Roland to the family home in Belnor. Under observation, Roland was acting relaxed and unbothered for the Next 5 days. Some begin to believe that maybe the possession was finally over. But since

they had been fooled before, many were suspicious of Roland's relaxed behavior. According to Father Bishop's diary, the family called the priest late one night and asked for help with interpreting odd messages that Roland's cousin had recorded, but it was too hard to interpret. Roland then grabbed the large sheets of wrapping paper and began scrolling frantic messages down with a Pencil. Some lines were repeated or incomplete, but here is generally what was said. According to Father Bishop's journal, I'll read you some of these. In answer to the first set of questions, he wrote the Roman numeral

X. It was clearly the numeral with crossbarss at the top and bottom. This was written four times on this first occasion was repeated several times during the exorcism. Usually an answer to the question DM. Number two, I will stay 10 Days and the return after 4 days are up. Number three, I am the devil himself. You will have to pray for a month in the Catholic Church. Number four. In answer to the command to give nomen lingua latina, I speak the language of the person's word language was misspelled. I will put in xxx's mind. >>

Somebody somebody's mind. They've been redacted. >> When he makes up his mind that the Priests are wrong about writing English. I will that is the devil will try to get his mother and dad to hate the Catholic Church. I will answer in the name of spite. In 10 days, I will give a sign on his chest. He will have it covered to show my power. He drew a strange thing that looked like something like a map with 2,000 ft written on it. Apparently connected with early dreams about hidden treasure and a map to find it.

Wo what? Okay. I believe that it was in Connection that he spoke also saying, "Yeah, this is what I got on the Ouija board." He drew a face also wrote the words dead bishop. Also, you may not believe me, then R will suffer forever. When commanded give a sign in Latin, he wrote meaningless marks on the paper, not even letters of the Roman alphabet. So, this I don't even know. >> It's really erratic. >> It is. >> Yeah. I don't know. The numbers were in Roman numerals. Father Bishop interpreted the message as Roland being possessed

for 10 more days, but the message mostly just confused the priest, >> right? I'd be like, "What is being communicated here? >> We're not we're not getting the message here." By day 17, with 12 of those days involving exorcism rituals, Father Bow insisted that Roland should be baptized in the Catholic faith. Here we go. Roland was raised and confirmed as Lutheran, but Father Bow figured that if the boy was Catholic, it would help purge the demon. Roland's parents eventually agreed to this, and on the day of his baptism, his aunt uncle were driving him to

St. Francis Xavier College Church with two other family members in the back seat. When Roland just went berserk, he jumped into the front seat and tried to take control of the steering wheel. He told them both That the baptism wouldn't work against him. Screaming, he said, "So you are going to baptize me? Haha. And you think you'll drive me with the Holy Communion?" "Haha." So he's just being >> crazy. Yeah. Like >> grabbing the steering wheel of a moving car. That's crazy. >> Yeah. After a struggle, his uncle was able to bring the car to

a stop and then rustled Ron back into his seat. They feared that he would try to do it again And put all their lives at risk. So, his uncle pinned him down while his aunt drove the rest of the way. They all noticed the radio also wouldn't work. >> Strange. Roland continued to try and reach out and attack his aunt as she drove. So, he's having an episode. >> Yeah. Once they made it to the church, three men dragged him out of the car while he screamed and resisted. Once they finally got him inside the

church, they held him down in a chair and Father Bowen told the boy to reject Satan. But Roland refused. So they began the baptism covering Roland in holy water. He recoiled as the water all you know covered all over him and he's trying to resist still. So they had three men hold him down. They had to cut the baptism short due to Roland's resistance. But fortunately they were able to complete the ritual. After continuously asking him three times, "Doust thou renounce Satan?" Roland finally Relented. He renounced Satan after this and returned to normal, but only

for a short while. Man, this is [ __ ] that only could happen in the mid 1900s. We're dragging a 13-year We're pinning a 13-year-old down in the back of a car and then three men are hauling him out into a church to then like dump water on him, force him into a baptism. >> Insane. Well, as Austin mentioned earlier, times are rough out there and uh that extends To all aspects of life. I feel like >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's pretty easy. I mean, you can just go online, scroll for a bit, and then

start feeling really, >> why do I feel so awful right now? >> Like, why is the world the way that it is? And >> it's uh easy to start spiraling. Yeah. So, it's probably a more important time than ever to uh find a therapist. I mean, it's a great thing to have that. Amen. Everybody could do therapy. I used rule actually to find my therapist and I was [music] worried about a lot of things. You go in with a lot of preconceived notions. What is this? Why am I here? What are we going to talk

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how you heard about them. So, please [music] go support our show and let them know that we sent you. That's rua.com/ lights out. You deserve mental health care that works for you, not against your budget. Uh, unfortunately, the violent thrashing and breaking of household objects still returned even after the baptism. So it really didn't work whatever they were trying to do. And each time he was given communion, he would spit it out. Now, for those that don't know, in the Catholic Church, communion isn't a Symbolic gesture. Catholics believe that communion is the body and blood

of of Christ that you're taking in. So he would just spit it out every time. He wouldn't take the communion wafer wafers. Sometimes he would spit it out on the ground. and he even once tore four pages out of Father Bow's Roman ritual book. 3 days later, Father Bow came to the family and suggested that Roland and his parents returned to live in Maryland and he would join them. The Plan was to find a hospital where Roland could be treated by medical professionals. And his body had really taken a toll from the frantic behavior over

the last few weeks. And he had wounds all over his body. Uh cuz if you remember, he's getting these weird branding and scratch marks continuously. And the idea was the plan was that while he got treatment, Father Bow promised the family he would then find another Priest to continue with the exorcism. So, kind of sounds like they're trying to just, okay, the baptism didn't work. We we we're haven't we haven't been successful here, so we're just going to kind of push you off back home to uh find some other priests. But unfortunately, this plan fell

through and they had to return to Maryland on April 5th. But no matter how desperately Father Bowen and Roland's family tried, none of the Maryland or DC hospitals Really wanted to admit the boys since, you know, the doctors claimed there was no physical or psychiatric case here. There's no reason to keep I know. >> I know you would think that >> I want to see these medical reports. How, >> right? If if a 13-year-old boy came to my hospital, wounds all over his body, and they're like, "We think something is really wrong with our child

here, >> I feel like any rational doctor would be Like, we need to at least admit this boy and and give a a an evaluation of him, right?" >> So, or say, "Take your son to the Mayo Clinic, >> right? take them somewhere that might know to the the the foremost expert >> on mental health in the country. Like if it's that bad, >> right? Yeah. I would even be concerned if there was like some abuse going on too. Like this is a child here. Okay, we Need to evaluate. >> This is part of the

story that I mean, you know, obviously outside of the exorcism, this is actually a part of the story that I don't even believe. I I can't really believe that they would be trying to take him and check him into any single hospital and none of them would take in a 13-year-old boy that is clearly disturbed and wounded. I don't really buy this, but they ended up returning to St. Louis on April 9th to Continue this exorcism because the possession continued. Strange markings and words continued to appear across his body. Priests also witnessed him. Even now

they're just witnessing him scratching words into his skin with his own fingernails. Things like hell and Christ. And at one point he also began singing a Maria Maria. >> That's that's the Allen sings that in the Hangover, right? Yeah. That's a Great scene. >> Yeah. Bizarre. Well, it's like this is making me think about there's definitely I think been >> other cases of self mutilation happening with people who had severe mental illness. >> Uh Pizuzu Algarod is one of them. Um and then there was definitely another one in the in the past that that we've

covered where >> they were diagnosed schizophrenia and They were self mutilating themselves. Yeah. >> So, it's like clearly we might have something going on there. So, it's just absolutely insane to me that there's like Yeah. Can't find anything wrong with him. He's perfectly healthy. Yeah. Come on, guys. Just that's I don't believe that part of the story. Um it almost sounds like they were covering their tracks. Like we tried to put him in a hospital. No one would take him. >> Which hospital? How many? >> Yeah. Let me see the documentation on that. >> Right.

>> Yeah. I'm not buying it. But other times, Roland began complaining of terrible pains in his genitals and kidneys, and the burning sensations throughout his body continued. So, the hospital still wouldn't Did they run a blood test? Did they run a urinal? Like, did they do anything? >> I don't [laughter] know. I don't know. Father Bounder ended up taking Roland to Alexian Brothers Hospital. So, they're finally getting him to a hospital. This is a Jesuit hospital. And this was on April 10th, which was 26 days after the exorcism first began. They admitted him to the

psych facility there in the hospital. This was run by Catholic monks dedicated to helping the mentally ill. They wanted to keep Roland's presence there low profile, but rumors eventually Spread that a demonically possessed boy had been admitted to the psych ward. In 2014, this is quite interesting. A dying retired Alexian Jesuit. His name was brother Greg Howinski gave an interview about 13-year-old Roland at this time. The Order of Monks had kept quiet about the exorcism over the years, but Greg finally wanted to talk about the experience as he was dying of cancer. So, we kind

of got his last words on This specific exorcism. And according to brother Howinsky, during the exorcism, Rowling got free and grabbed a priest's purple stole and shredded it with his bare hands. Brother Howinsky said he could feel the powers of the devil within the boy. And later, he witnessed Roland levitating off of the bed. Brother Howinsky then held down Roland's legs and tried to force him back down to the bed, but he couldn't. He kind of resisted. And on the second night at the Psych facility, Roland got hold of a decanter and smashed it against

a wall. And while reflecting on these experiences, Brother Hollinsky said, "What I saw was real. What I felt was real. It was an experience that I would never forget. It couldn't be faked." You heard it. There's Yeah, there's from one of the eyewitnesses that had >> Could be faked. >> God. On April 12th, the brothers began reciting the rosary around Roland and he Said, "Stick it up your ass." And he continued to reject Holy Communion. On April 13th, Father William Hollerin took Roland to an outdoor Jesuit retreat center called White House Retreat Center to get

some fresh air and a change of scenery. This retreat, it's very beautiful. It was built on a bluff with a beautiful view of the Mississippi River. Around the bluff was a path that followed the stations of the cross. For those that don't know, this is 14 visual Depictions of Christ's final moments leading up to his crucifixion and burial in the tomb. And it was on this path that Roland threw a sudden fit and began running toward the bluff's edge, which could have, you know, risked losing his life. And it was like he was under a

spell completely out of control. Father Hollerin began chasing after him, and he eventually caught up to him and tackled Roland to the ground. Apparently, these convulsions that he Had lasted about 20 minutes. That is a long time. And as Roland finally snapped out of the trance, he had no idea what was going on, and he claimed he had no memory of what had happened. Then at night, the exorcism ritual continued, but many noticed that Father Bow appeared weakened. His body also began to produce boils that covered his skin. Oof. And he had lost almost 40

pounds over the last month. Danny, is that even possible to lose 40 pounds in a month? >> Yeah, but not healthily. [laughter] >> Well, it's those GLP wounds, man. Demonic possession. That's crazy. Meanwhile, back at the Alexian Brothers Hospital on April 16th, Holy Saturday, one of the monks placed a statueette of St. Michael the Archangel in Roland's room. In the Bible, Michael defeated Satan before he and his angels [music] banished Satan into hell. Prayers that involve St. Michael are often used during exorcisms, and Roland seemed to React to these specific types of prayers. The priests

and brothers also noticed that whenever Roland was released from his trance, he'd begin to pray. This was a sign to them that Roland was fighting against the demon as best [music] as he could. Whenever he had the chance, he was praying. On April 18th, the day after Easter, 34 days since Roland's [music] exorcism began, Father Bowurn continued the ritual once again. They placed religious medals Around Roland's neck, and he complained of them burning his skin. [music] The men refused to remove the metals, and Father Bow then forced a crucifix into Roland's palm, which caused more

of a burning sensation. At this point, Roland then began contorting his body and convulsing. Just imagining this is the visuals are crazy. What the hell? You can see why this was adapted into like a fictional story, right? It's so intense. According to Father Bishop's journal, Father Bow demanded to know the demon's identity. >> And Roland in a deep guttural voice that was not his own said, "This isn't enough. He has to say one more word, one little word. I mean, one big word. He'll never say it. [music] He has to make nine communions. He'll never

say that word. I am always in him. I may not have much power always, but I am in him. He will never say that word. And then more Violent outbursts followed. More singing even and more urinating. The med did not understand what this word was. But while Roland was seizing, he suddenly released the tension in his muscles and laid calmly in bed. In a clear commanding voice, Roland suddenly began praying. He said, "Satan, Satan, I am St. Michael, and I command you, Satan, and the other devil spirits to leave the body in the name of

Dominus immediately. Now, now, now." And in that moment, Father Bowen Recognized that the word that the voice was referencing must have been dominus. This is the Latin word for Lord, which is another name to refer to God. The priests and the brothers then witnessed the most violent convulsions Roland had ever experienced up to that point, which dear God, must have been absolutely insane. Yeah. So, this is the moment because Roland later claimed he had a vision from God before he spoke that word dominus. Here's what he said, And this is coming from that journal. He

said there was a brilliant white light and in that light stood a very beautiful man with flowing wavy hair that blew in the breeze. He wore a white robe that fitted close to his body. The material gave the impression of scales. Only the upper half of the body of this man was visible to Roland. Uh it's believed this is St. Michael also, but in his right hand he held up a wavy and fiery sword in front of him. With his left hand, he Pointed down to a pit or cave. Roland said he saw the devil

standing in the cave. Roland felt the heat from the cave and saw the flames. First, the devil fought, resisting the angel and laughing diabolically. Then the angel smiled at Roland and spoke, but Roland heard only the one word, dominus. As the angel spoke, the devil and about 10 of his helpers ran back into the fire of the cave or pit. And after the devil disappeared, the Letters spite appeared on the bars above the cave. After the devil disappeared, the letters spite appeared on the bars of the cave. As the devils disappeared into the pit, Roland

felt a pulling or tugging in the region of his stomach. As the devils disappeared, he felt a snapping and then felt relaxed completely. He said that this was the most relaxed feeling he had since the whole experience began back in January. So after saying the word domininess, About 8 minutes of violent convulsions followed and Roland finally came to a resting state. Through heavy breaths, he said, "He's gone." The energy in the room dissipated and Roland's violence had ended. He looked up at the priest and said, "It's over." Father Bishop noted that the vision occurred at

11 p.m. And this was coincidentally the same time that the paranormal manifestations had begun in Cottage City, Maryland on the evening of January 15th, 1949. After 34 days of exorcism, it seemed like the madness was finally over. But Father Bowin still had his guard up. He wasn't convinced that the devil was gone. They had all been tricked before, and he wasn't sure if it was only the voice of the demon that told them that it was all over. After a heavy sleep, Roland attended Holy Mass for the first time since his baptism. And without trusting

Roland's words, Father Battern Prayed for a sign from God that the possession was truly over. Everyone in the room then heard a violent boom that shook the room. A monk thought it might have been the facility's furnace exploding. That's how big it was. And soon after this explosion, priests over in the St. Francis Xavier College Church saw a bright vision of St. Michael above the altar. This convinced Father Bow that the demonic possession was finally over. Roland ended up staying under observation in St. Louis for a few more weeks before returning to his home in

Maryland. and he wrote Father Bowder in a letter saying that he was back in school and happy again. He even got a new dog. Ever since his exorcism, it's reported that Roland Doe, aka Robbie Mannheim, never experienced anything paranormal ever again. His parents also converted to Catholicism that following Christmas. In 2021, according to the Skeptical Inquirer, the publication revealed Roland Doe's real name to be Ronald Edwin Hunkler. He had passed away from a stroke on May 10th, 2020, a month before his 86th birthday. And after his death, a long-term companion of Ronald said, he said

he wasn't possessed. It was all concocted. He said, "I was just a bad boy." Wow. >> Kind of confessing at the end that this Was all made up >> or he was just acting the whole time. >> He was just acting out, >> which is really impressive. >> Oh my god. drag this out for this long and this intense. Maybe he just really hated going to school and hated church. He really [laughter] hated church. >> Um but yeah, there are a few photos of him of the real guy. And after the events of this exorcism,

Ronald, he went on to live a quiet life, pretty much out Of the spotlight. But every Halloween, he was really paranoid that people would kind of figure out who he was. They would come bother him. So he would leave his house for the entire day on Halloween just in case um just to avoid anyone. But according to John Wade, an archavist ameritus from St. Louis University, Ronald, he remained a Catholic after the exorcism. He even went on to attend a Jesuit high school, went to college, got married, and had Two daughters and one son. And

he allegedly named his son Michael after St. Michael. He became a rocket scientist and worked for NASA for almost 40 years. Bet you didn't see that coming. >> No. What? >> He was a bad boy. But he was a genius. >> Yeah. He also patented several technological devices that use was used by NASA. So >> good for him, man. >> Yeah. He went on to live a a a healthy normal life after this. Wow. Holy hell. What a what a turn. >> Yeah. What? >> What a switcheroo here. Wow, man. Well, on the topic of

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is Roland just trying to like maybe he doesn't remember that was a long time ago when he was saying that or I I don't know also when when Roland So that was coming secondhand right that he was saying like it's all a bad boy so that is secondhand also knowing that he wanted to stay out Of the spotlight maybe it was just like hey I kind of want to leave this in the past it's all made up like that was my personal journey you don't really deserve to know. This is like my thing. So maybe

it's a little bit of that. >> Yeah. Or maybe his thoughts on demonic possession changed, >> right? Yeah. >> Maybe he just wasn't a believer in that anymore. I don't know. It could be a lot Of different things. >> I mean, he had like 60 70 years >> Yeah. >> from that point. So, and he was just a boy then, too. So, a lot can happen. >> Yeah. Well, according to Father Bishop's journal, eight Jesuits had witnessed the possession. And despite this, in the years since, the Catholic Church has refused to acknowledge this particular case

as an official demonic possession, which is very interesting. >> The priests, especially Father Bow, who were present, believe that Roland Doe was undoubtedly possessed by a demon. The final report of the exorcism is currently stored in the Catholic Church archives, and many clergy refused to talk about the exorcism. H interesting. I don't know if it's just a reputation thing >> because it got kind of turned into a movie and pop culture or >> and it kind of like snowballed into the Exorcism craze of like the 70s8s. I don't know. >> But to this day, many

believe that the residual energy from the demonic possession still remains. This is unbelievable. Investigator Steven Lechance claimed that an unnamed church official gave him access to a medical facility near the Alexian Brothers Hospital. He was taken up to the third floor and taken to a particular room, but security wouldn't let him in. He Heard things crashing and people screaming on the other side of the door. So, you can make of that what you will. Is there a residual haunting happening inside this room where this exorcism take took place? Is there somebody else possessing? What's going

on there? But someone allegedly told him that one of the priests who exercised Roland Doe were kept there. Yeah. What? Whoa, that's crazy. Steven believed that the devil left Roland and immediately Possessed a priest who passed away in 1983. Some believe that a priest willingly accept the devil into him in order to remove it from Roland. That's crazy. And so they just keep him in this room forever. Yeah. In 1978, the psychiatric facility of Alexian Brothers Hospital was scheduled to be torn down. But before its destruction, construction workers found a locked security room on the

fifth floor. After breaking in, they found a desk. Inside it was a copy of Father Bishop's 29page journal. Father Bishop's journal and his collection of eyewitness reports have been published in the book, The Exorcist Diary: The True Story. As we've been kind of mentioning throughout the episode, Roland's horrifying story went on to inspire the book and its famous 1973 film adaptation, The Exorcist, which is considered one of the greatest horror movies all time. Some would even say the scariest movie of all time. >> Uh which is pretty crazy. Great movie, by the way. I'm definitely

definitely in my my top 10. >> And this movie when it came out, it shocked everybody that went and watched it. Movie goers walked out. Some fainted. Uh, some even vomited when they were shown. The absolute terror of demonic possession. >> Hell yeah. >> The practical effects in that movie. Excellent. >> Really good. Yeah. >> Apparently, several people even suffered from heart attacks. >> Yeah. >> Took your breath away. Literally. >> One. This is crazy. One person in New York even miscarried during a showing. Wow. >> Yeah, that is intense. So, just stress on the

body here. Uh, but yeah, we'll be actually talking about the actual You got it. A little bit. >> Our Halloween episode this year will terrify you. >> You may leave cursed as well. You never know. >> But following the release of the movie, the Catholic Church noticed attendance numbers. >> But [laughter] you're kind. >> Maybe we just >> Have you seen The Exorcist? >> Come join Father Bishop Sunday mass. >> I like how you just have to scare the Living [ __ ] out of people and then all of a sudden they come to mass.

Yeah. >> If you scared [ __ ] go to church. >> Yeah. You know, through fear. Yep. Famous words of ice cube. [laughter] Uh so yeah, they saw attendance spike. Many were coming to church and lot thinking that they needed an exorcism which is wild. >> Churches all over were contacted by concerned individuals seeking out Exorcism investigations by priests. I I I think this like maybe exhausted their resources too and it's like okay we need >> maybe we need to reevaluate, >> right? Yeah. God because although some of the events that are depicted in the

movie are fiction, exorcist priest from the arch dascese of Indianapolis, Father Vincent Lamperts believes and has said multiple times that everything depicted in the movie could actually happen in real life, which is like whoa. >> Yep. >> So, uh yeah, he said quote because the devil will play on a person's memory and imagination. So, the uh poss possibilities are endless. >> That's a crazy theory. >> Yeah. He believes things like heads spinning, objects flying, people crawling up walls, and levitation are all possible. So regardless of whether Roland's exorcism story is actually true or not, many

believe that the devil lies Among us, or lives among us, rather, and we all might be susceptible to demonic possession, which is a terrifying thought to think about. Uh, but in fact, you kind of need to believe in the devil for that to be true. >> Yeah, there's the running statement. And you'll see it's like why haven't why hasn't any atheist ever been possessed before? You hear that one? >> Well, and also it's like you don't really hear about exorcism stories Anymore. >> No. Yeah. Like especially things like this, >> right? Yeah. They're they seem

to be much more rare. >> Like they happen, but it's like much more subtle. You don't hear about people levitating and head spinning and crawling up walls. >> Anything in this way. >> Yeah. They're a bit more subtle. >> Yeah. And I think it's also maybe collectively, culturally, the zeitgeist, we've kind of figured out that that level of uh Reagan in The Exorcist is just kind of this really sensationalized version of a what an actual exorcism might be or possession. Um it's certainly entertaining. Absolutely. I mean, it's terrifying, too. It plays on that that for

me that childhood fear of the devil and hell. And so some of my favorite movies deal with demons and Demonic possession. I love the paranormal horror because it plays on those fears of mine. Yeah. >> Those childhood fears. And >> those get me more than say a slasher film or something like that where I'm like I kind of like ah this is kind of funny or you know it's it just entertaining to me versus like sometimes I'll lay awake after watching like when I watched the Exodus for the first time. I'm not going to lie.

I was like maybe I Should pray tonight. >> [laughter] >> Maybe I should say a little prayer cuz you're just like >> it works. That's why all the people went to church. >> Exactly. >> I do like it's funny. I'm the opposite. I find paranormal movies don't scare me at all. It's actually the more real stuff or like >> Sure. >> the the real dread of of life >> or just evil human being. >> Yeah. That's actually >> uh what scares me. And uh >> you know Ed Gene's kind of in the in the zeitgeist

now too. um that kind of person is actually way more terrifying to me >> than uh but I I think with paranormal I don't blame you because >> um with something like Ed Gene even though it's an outlier we can still kind Of explain him >> but with the paranormal it's inexplicable what is this what's actually occurring here we don't we can't track it >> which I think is what's so scary about it is the mystery of it all >> um where's like real tangible fears like that. We we at this point we kind of

understand what a serial killer is. >> We understand the horrors of of everyday life to some degree, but yeah, the Paranormal. >> It's I think it's the component of mystery >> is is what is really terrifying. >> Well, I believe I believe in the paranormal. I believe in unexplained phenomenons. I believe in ghosts and spirits and and aliens. all these things uh I'm a believer in and I just don't know what it is. And I think it's the unknown that's terrifying to me of like if it's not the devil, if it's not Demons, then what

is it? >> And I do believe that there is there are negative entities in this universe. I think there are >> there's negative energies just like there's positive energy. And I think there are there are negative things that can manifest and they manifest in in different ways. Uh sometimes into physical reality, sometimes not. And I think they can affect you. Um, so it's that it's that unexplained where science Can't quite define it yet is what what terrifies me. Whereas like you just said, we we've figured out a lot of things um with human psychology to

explain um and also you know with the you know advancements in mental health research and things like that, we've started to understand uh uh the way that the mind works and why people are the way that they are. Although there is still some mystery to that as well, but for me it's the it's the complete Unknowns. It's the it's the things that can manifest from the ether, whatever it is that that terrify me. And >> uh whereas like a human, I can rationalize that a lot more. And I kind of feel like I I know

enough about that that I don't really have that's not like an active fear of mine. Like I'm not actively worried about running into a serial killer or or a killer for that matter. But rather I'm if I you know I still there's this part of me of like if I open myself up to this, am I opening up myself? and even just some of my own personal experiences here in the studio here at uh the last studio and just like the things that we talk about. I definitely leave leave this studio and I there's a

little bit thing in the back of my mind. There's a large part of me is like oh this is all just fun and games at the end of the day but then there's a part of me also that's like >> you might be messing with something that You can't understand and explain and it could be affecting you in some way. >> Yeah, I know. When people are convinced there's something following you around, but maybe Allah the exorcist I can I will take it into me. >> Yeah. In I will take whatever you take from >>

cuz I want to extreme what is it like being possessed cuz clearly you can be crazy demonically possessed and then I'll go on and work for NASA for 40 Years, >> right? And get happily married and have children. So >> have a full fulfilling life after. >> Yeah. I do like that there is like a happy ending here. Yeah, >> because it could I feel like a lot of these end quite abysmally and uh you're just kind of left with like gh >> Yeah, that sucks. But this one had a turnaround. >> But I want

Danny, I want to know what What do you think? Where where's your head at? >> I know what Danny thinks. >> Try try to be open. [laughter] >> What What do I think Austin? Let's see your synopsis first. >> Danny's going to say it's all fake. God doesn't exist. God's dead. [laughter] >> Damn. He says cry. So God is fake. [laughter] I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Um Oh boy. H [sighs] >> he's trying to give us the PC answer. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean as a filthy dirty >> Just say just say what you [laughter]

think. >> As a filthy dirty non-believer. Um >> you heathen. I'm I I am a healing. Yeah. >> He's got a tattoo that says God is dead on this. [laughter] >> He's working on a back piece right now. >> It's a brand. It's not even a [laughter] tattoo. >> Scratching it in myself. >> I mean, as far as the exorcism goes, um the having so many witnesses to it is definitely it definitely lends to its credibility. Having Roland himself admit that it wasn't that and he was just acting. I >> secondhand source, Danny. >> It's

a secondhand source, but I find that hard to believe in a sense because like Austin was explaining like this was decades after it had already happened. He was old. He was near death. I think he just wanted to just die with everything going peacefully. He wanted everything to just kind of be he didn't want that to be his legacy. He didn't want his legacy to be that he was, you know, possessed. He he accomplished so many other things. He wanted to have that part of him go and just be mute. As far as exorism goes

in itself, though, I don't I don't believe in possessions. I I don't know if this was a case of Mental health. I don't know if this was a case of From what it sounds like, it doesn't sound like a teenager acting out. You know what I mean? >> It It does not sound like a teenager. I'm very Yeah. >> Is that Jordan Peterson [laughter] black hole [ __ ] going on? >> I I don't know about this one, man. I It's one of those things where I wasn't there. I can't really speak on it. From

everything, all the evidence that we Have, it's all secondhand account because as always, there's no >> Isn't it hard to believe though a bunch of clergy members signing off on this if it was just an elaborate hoax? >> This may be a hot take, but uh I don't believe anything that the clergymen say because they hid in the church for >> Damn it. [laughter] >> We had a priest get into bed with him. >> True. You discount everything. >> That was a Lutheran. That was a Lutheran, not a Catholic. >> Excuse [laughter] me. Excuse me.

>> The Lutheran. >> So, but there was a lot of time spent alone with Roland. [laughter] Y >> I'm not saying Roland was abused. I'm just saying I'm not going to I'm not going to agree that a bunch of a bunch of people coming together and trying to say this was real when they came together and said another thing wasn't Real. >> It wasn't all It was eight Jesuits, but there were 48 witnesses. And remember it was like family members, cousins, uncles, aunts, like there was other eyewitnesses there that >> it it >> could could

a teenager just act crazy. >> A teenager could act crazy. Would >> could he have been on a substance? >> That's something that doesn't get brought up. >> Did they do a toxicology report on him? >> That's true. >> We don't know. So he could be on drugs through this entire time, which would be kind of crazy. Not saying that's what I think >> would be nuts. And I would probably go insane after being exercised for, you know, days. >> Days. >> Yeah. I also think that if like let's say this was just an episode

and he's Act he is acting out. He this is all just a show. That is an incredibly impressive show that would go on for over over a month of an exorcism and then like months of >> this paranormal stuff, you know, paranormal stuff happening. If it's just theatrics, that is a huge production for this kid to put on. >> Yeah. And it doesn't explain the other things that were seen, too. The scratching, the knocking, the [ __ ] Flying through the air, the bed vibrating, and like how is he pulling that off? Like, he could

be faking his behavior, >> but how could he explain all that? And that's what's wild to me. That's where I'm like, >> I don't know, man. Maybe this was [ __ ] real. >> I have no idea. And if it was, and I know I know that the Catholic Church doesn't like to document these things For some reason, but I truly think they should because if there is proof of demonic possession, that is proof of God in a sense. It it helps prove their beliefs, not in the way they want, but it helps prove their

beliefs. And it honestly helps someone like me who doesn't believe. I would start going to church if I saw actual documentation that was reviewed by scientists, pictures, videos that was reviewed, peer peer-reviewed studies, All those things. It would help me believe in these things. Whereas with no evidence and they're trying to keep it hushed down, it makes me think like, okay, >> if if if God exists, I know the devil exists. I know demons exist. So why are they trying to hide only one aspect of the faith? >> Yeah. I just I think a part

of it though, it's faith. It's called faith because it's something that you don't You don't have a tangible evidence for. >> Seeing isn't believing. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. It is. That is why it's faith, you know. It is just something that you will never get proof of. That's the whole concept of it. But I mean, they did document it not in like video or photographic evidence, but it's it's there. It's in the archive somewhere. And the Catholic Church does say officially this was not a demonic possession case. So, >> yeah, but are they just saying

that to make us disinterested? And in fact, in the archives, there's video, photos, like actual evidence that they're just covering up >> of paranormal activity. >> That would be nuts. >> Hey, I think they might be covering up evidence of aliens. So, I wouldn't put a pass in covering up >> actual paranormal. >> Release the Catholic Church files. >> Release the [laughter] file ever >> to classify it all. [laughter] >> We want to see it. Yeah. I don't know. I'm I'm really split on this one. It's It's really hard. It's crazy one, but we definitely

got to know your thoughts. Yeah. Do you think this was a true exorcism or a true exorcism was performed and was a demonic possession case? Or do you think this is could be explained by other more conventional Things? I don't know. We definitely want to know. I did want to say too before we end today's episode that Danny got married this past week. >> Congratulations, man. Long time coming. >> Long very long time coming. >> Congrats. He is a married man. I am. >> So am I. >> The only uh filthy heathen here is Austin.

>> I'll be getting married in a Catholic Church [laughter] >> with a sanctioned exorcist >> just in case. >> Well, it's just duel. They'll exercise me and then I'll get married. [laughter] >> Like, hold on. >> He's not ready. Stay stay there. >> Stand back. Yeah. >> Uh no, but that's Yeah. Congrats, Daniel. That's awesome. >> Thank you guys. I appreciate it. It was a beautiful weekend. You know, I had a Lot of fun. >> Did you faint? >> No, but I I did at one point I felt like I was going to puke a

little bit. >> Yeah. Yeah. You looked amazing, too. Like the whole your whole outfit was >> top notch, man. >> I'll throw up some pictures on screen, too, so you guys kind of see cuz it wasn't it wasn't traditional. I mean, if you guys these guys know me. >> Well, as you just heard, yeah, this god. >> It's not traditional [laughter] >> by any >> It was It was very much like a dark romance styled wedding and it was >> it was very you guys. >> Yes. It was very very unique and very godless. >>

We love that for you. [laughter] >> We love that for you. But uh >> I'm kidding. >> Yeah, we'll be back next week with the Halloween especially. >> Yeah, this is going to be a really fun episode. >> Is it? You know, we always try to do it up. >> So hopefully we deliver this year. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's very on on theme. >> Yes. >> Uh as we've done all month of the official month of Lights Out October. >> Yes. It's also one of my favorite months. >> It's so nice. >> Such a

great month. >> I I always love watching horror movies. I just rewatched it. You guys ever watched Over the Garden Wall? >> It's like a miniseries. Animated miniseries. Oh, it's so good. I mean, it's like kind of a kid show, but it has Over the Garden Wall. The animated series. >> It's like a kid show, but it's also a bit more adult uh sometimes in in in its Nature. But it's so good. It's it's really short, too. It's only like maybe a few couple hours or something. >> No, it's very cozy. >> Yeah. Over the

garden wall. It is a bit It's It's like dark but also cozy. >> Yeah, it's a perfect October show. Highly recommend it. I just watched that um a week ago >> and then read your Bible. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> One quick thing before we go. I just want to make it clear. I have no problem with any religion. I believe have all of their faith. Believe in no friends that attend church. [laughter] >> Josh is probably the closest one. Yeah, that's not saying much these days, [laughter] man. >> But I have no problem

with faith. Please believe in whatever you want to believe in. Frankly, I am jealous of people of faith because it it brings a sense of Comfort. It answers a lot a lot of questions that I have that I can't answer. So, frankly, I am jealous of people of the faith. I just I've struggled with it. I've struggled with it and I I can't find an answer. >> All right. All right. Politician over here trying to appease the masses. [laughter] Send Danny love, [laughter] please. He just got married for Christ's sake. >> Pray for me, please.

[laughter] >> Yeah, there pray for all of us uh that we shall [music] not ever see a demon. That would be terrifying. But uh thanks for hanging out with us today. We'll see you guys next week. Till then, lights out everybody. >> [music]