Phil Collins: Drummer First

You're asking me things I haven't thought about for a long time is this the first time you've talked this in detail about your drumming yeah you know, I wouldn't think to spend a couple of days doing it normally yeah yeah have you ever had a chance to talk in depth with your dad just about drums like on a project like this sometimes like with conversation but never as in detail as is going through pretty much everything like looking at all of his kits like there's always questions of like hey what were you using then or

how did you get started playing drums and what made you want to pick up the sticks in the first place Phil Collins his drumming has such a unique sound and style that you know immediately when you hear it that's that guy this is this is how I want my Stu to sound man what an incredible voice I mean he can get out there and sing like he has like so many multifaceted careers why just do this why why not Expand your horizons so I jumped to it I think the general public know Phil Collins from

like his solo work very popular and very good as a singer right when you first realized that you couldn't play drums the way you used to oh um what were the thoughts going through your mind well uh just feels so strange to hold a p I'm Phil Collins and I'm a drummer who is Phil Collins that's a good question that is the question I'm not very good listening to myself sing really prefer to listen to myself from good morning morning how's it going man you doing pretty good morning we'll take you upstairs and uh sure

hello yeah all right and we're just in here this is where we'll be okay all right so this is where we're filming interview room the spot man I'm really excited to learn about the creative process not only with his writing but just like the In in the kind of earlier years and then the bestro cases it's about when I was three I got for Christmas I got a a drum you know plastic drum I have very Vivid memories of of sitting and playing with this drum uh and I took to it instinctively I think did

he use these recently or are these I mean I don't know if they're repurposed I'm assuming I mean if we open them I don't know what they look like well let's uh let's open them up yeah I'll let you do the honors I don't know I'm going to over the big one and then when I was about four or five they made me a little drum kit with uh crosswood with poles sticking out uh and on the you know there was a triangle and it was a a symbol and you know like a small drum

[Music] oh high hat sand yeah I'm guessing there's Let's Do It Let's uh we can put it all on the floor it was something I could sit at and uh and I thrashed along to the television and it got louder and louder until I was banished to the bedroom sticks maybe there's some yeah what does he have I don't know if there's going to be some original like maybe there's some beat up uh sticks from the last tour Hey guys it's Nick here hope you're enjoying the video so far we had a great time shooting

it in Switzerland just wanted to let you guys know that we've actually put together a free ebook for you guys it includes some behind the scenes photos some information about the music and some sheet music for all the drummers out there as well it'll help you get more out of the video and it's completely free for you guys so check it out at the link in the [Music] description there was a guy across the road that had a snare drum and a bass drum so uh my Mom or Dad or Mom and Dad they bought

that for me and then I started to slowly expand on that and play along to records do you know what these are I don't I mean I'm guessing they look like they look like a a throne because I think the way it is two legs a here you see here's the good stuff n what is that drum drums for Nicholas yes that's thank cute daddy you said that when you were 17 you gave up acting and you told your parents that you wanted to be a drummer was that a major turning point for you so

I'm not going to go through 50 years of this don't worry uh my Dad particularly was very proud of me being in the West End you know in Oliver which was a huge show and I I was The Artful Dodger you know so he had bragging rights on that suddenly I was going to join a pop band you know how you like go up to your parents and you share this idea with them of you know wanting to maybe become a drummer and they might be skeptical about it but then you can come back to

them and be like hey but you guys do know Phil Collins right you know I I just I decided that's what I wanted to do and I I became a Prof professional auditioner that just answered the back pages of Melody Maker and uh went went for auditions you know the the auditions were good but I never seemed to get anything then know why but I went to the Genesis audition with a friend of mine Genesis required drummer sensitive to acoustic music and it was just a job as far as I was concerned but I do

remember that I I was very aware of what Genesis were becoming you know I mean they were always in the back pages of Melody Maker doing gigs and that's what I wanted to do I wanted to work you know but I you know there there was one band that were on the south Coast of England I rang him up you know and I said well where where do you want me to go to to audition and they said well you want to come down here to Bournemouth which was this place on the south coast and

I I said I'll call you back so I called them back and I I said uh my mom doesn't really like me to travel I'm joining a band right he's a phenomenal every everybody knows him like I do from Genesis the manand Genesis he's really criminally underrated as a a Prague icon I mean Peter Gabriel said as soon as he saw me sit down on a drum stool he knew that I was a drummer and uh I got a called to say I got the job but uh and we went slowly downhill from there Genesis

my gosh we would listen to it and we would study it if you don't go back and listen to Brand X or listen to the early Peter Gabriel era Genesis you won't even get that side of him I joined in 1970 and uh we borrowed a place called The molting which was where I don't know what they used to do it but it was full of pigeons and pigeon crap and you know but we got it for nothing and we just started throwing some my de together you know there was just four of us Peter

Mike Tony and me the musical Box it it drums don't come in to like almost four minutes in the song but he's shreding almost like on the verge of metal shredding it is comical to think how much metal he [Music] inspired and it became big stage song which kind of shrunk as the years went by to it was just the end section the bassom doubles it's like oh yeah he's got a wicked right foot so you're all doing like these doubles on the kick yeah do you remember like what inspired you to do that or

like if you'd heard that before cuz that's pretty you know pretty novel at the time I mean yeah uh I don't even know how I'm going to set this up I don't know how this works I mean I was 19 when we did this mhm track but uh I moved my foot back so that there was it was my foot doing it as well as the tension it's not even like a modern one no yeah no I mean all of this dude is probably the same stuff he's been using forever you know I used to

play two bass drums oh you play double kick at one point but then I I just I realized that you know I try and do it with one there you go my dad swears by the the speed King I use a speed King pedal as well and they were pretty basic um but he I remember Like I got like a new DW like 9,000 double pedal I was so excited about it yeah and I brought it to my dad and he was like well it's not speed King is it you know I mean like I

mean it was you and botom and like all those guys swore by it Nick are you a fan of the speed King from the times I've used it not really look I mean it just it's already fallen apart and I could tell if it was an old one or a new one you know because it gets played in you know and uh no I I love them at that time years ago the gear wasn't that great you were always generally uncomfortable per forming at that level your crash just symol and it fell over your drums

are falling apart dude it it just annoys me how every time I pick it up it falls apart like it's like this Throne oh yeah what I mean you know we're talking about the Dark Ages the pedals wore down fast enough so you were sometimes fighting the movement of the pedal the gear nowaday is like a hot knife through warm butter it's you just sit down it it almost plays you and look how small the throne is it seems like the most uncomfortable thing to play for like 3 hours a night the thing which I

didn't think about for this was uh you Know the conversation with two stools cuz I used to send my drum Tech out to buy stools you know he got so pissed off we go to sound check and I'd stand in play on one of the stools he' bought and I'd asked the sound man what it sounded like he said I I I think I think number two sounds better and then we started doing all the the dancing mhm not much you know that's not comfortable to sit on for the whole set you know what I

mean I've got a picture here of the drum kit you were playing on the nursery crime tour you tell us a little bit about what you have on your kid yeah I went to a drama school the son of one of the teachers uh played with Joe Cocker he had this drum kit this scratch drum kit that he um was you know asked if I'd be interested in buying and it was white pearl beautiful drum kit I mean you know but I took all the plastic off the white pearl put it back together again you

know and that was my basic kit with Genesis would you ever find yourself wearing a Genesis shirt these [Music] days and uh so that's the same kit you know I Put silver it's just so funny like how different the setups are over the years was I used to do so many different things I'd think about what the music was going to be like and bring that whatever drums I felt were appropriate he always played what was right for the music and that's the sign to me of of a real like musician that knows how to

play for the song what what what the right thing is it's always super musical there always like shape and Dynamics and breath and how to play what's best for the song his drumming is definitely it's a clinic in that it's the song you're playing for you don't play a song and try to put your chops in if it's not helping the song it was never this ego-driven drumming thing it was always the drumming in the context of songs never mind his off the charts technical abilities which you can hear Incorporated within how can you do

those things and in a musical way too at the same time but extremely technical you want to be able to use your imagination and have that imagination be unique and I think that that's what he Has there's one part I wanted to ask you about and I don't know if you maybe don't remember that you did this but there's a fill that you do here and I wanted to know if you recognized it was that something in your locker before before you used it for real H where is this second out yeah 77 I don't

no boot force and ignorance I guess I don't even know how to set this up a sweat towel that was that was puds as he was putting all his back in before we got the drums PUD uh your dad's drum tech for how many years I'm not that great at math but it was since 1975 with Brandon X oh God where's P maybe May Phil will get mad at us for setting it up oh there you see I think it was like that 75 so yeah long time so he helped ship all these drums here

and he sent us this email of like detailed instructions like don't touch the memory locks do this put this Tom here he told that on the phone he goes don't touch him okay so I think this is the one we have we were talking about and I think this is the kit that we have out it's got the same Badges and it's black And I think this is kind of what he used onwards this photograph is sent to me by Roger Powell who was the drummer with the action and he said do you really need

all that and uh I must admit his kit set up often he plays a very large kit but he never looks like it's cumbersome or anything he whizzes around the kit very effortlessly I wouldn't be surprised if the memory locks are still the same from with the red sharpie yeah so I'm assuming the red mark is at the top I mean that's very satisfying when when there's a memory lock that works so we're going to see if we can follow his instructions and see if Phil is happy with the way we set it up see

what I mean all the worn out cases yeah you know with the 20-in bace room right 10 12 15 right 16 18 how many drumers does it take to set up a kid want to freaking set up a speed King just ah that sound no one came close to that man you want to have a seat did we pass the test yeah so a good start didn't it it again my good friend Taylor Hawkins would always come to me And he was always like Chad you got lamb lights down on Broadway man I mean I

have my my Japanese copy right here so start to finish that's just one big beautiful piece of music I remember my older brother Joel coming home home with seconds out and I saw the album cover with all the Boeing 747 lights shining down on the stage and I was like what's that and back then you'd sit with headphones and you'd look at the album art and you'd read the lyrics you'd read every where was it recorded that really tethers itself into you for life people would ask me like you know well how long do you

guys rehearse for the tour in generally we rehearse about a month he really embraced every aspect of the live performances and uh and I would always commend him because there's nothing better than preparation what would you say was the most difficult part of playing in Genesis was it the music was it the Personalities in the band Genesis yeah no we always got on great I mean there was never any backstage fights or anything like that he would do this thing where like they'd play a show and he'd get the board audio from that show go

back to the hotel Listen to the whole show and then make notes and put them under the band members doors for what they could do better almost to a fault he's the most Hands-On guy I ever worked with I mean you know one tended to walk away cuz you could see it coming you know yeah he stopped doing it he realized that like hey that was a total dick move and be that like you know that was like psych psycho Behavior right there yeah you know no it was it was most of the time a

happy band you go man take it easy are you going to STP yourself into a you know a stroke here with this we did a a lot of laughing actually talking about Genesis did you have any pre-show rituals or routines that you would go through before you would play in front of an audience I think they were touring like Russia or something like that and the traffic was so bad that we missed it and I was living I I I missed the Huddle oh yeah they left late and got stuck in traffic and Nick rushed

backstage to do the Huddle I said we we've missed the Huddle now we got to go on stage I missed the Huddle I got I walked into the arena crying I'm like you got to do a huddle they did like a Mini one with like six band members anyway so we did a little private huddle just for you do you remember who came up with that was that you or was it Mike on the bass or like you know how because that's I mean pretty much the whole song for the most part relates around that

I I don't remember who came up with it probably me might as well take the credit for it his ability to camouflage something that's it's hard to play it's a challenge but also people could dance to it what yeah you know no I mean the the the the fills like you know the you know you knew where to put the drum fill it wasn't always in the obvious place the fills are coming when you you don't expect it like did that come from anywhere or do you just you know you just did it that was

just inspired genius he just had that magic moment during that take and that it if you if you ask him to repeat what he just did he going to say I don't know I just I just played you know and this is the magic uh I don't remember you know you make it up as you go along one of my favorite things I Is Apocalypse in 98 you know where it all just fitted together I was off one day I don't know where I was and I came back the next day and the guys had

written this guitar and bass so I came back the next day you know and we were talking about what they'd done the day before and I just played along with whatever I felt like that became one of my favorite pieces to play and that happened just by luck really and not knowing what you were doing some of the time if someone thinks all Phil Collins was was' 8s pop radio hits I recommend checking out selling England by the pound from 1973 we'll listen to that record from beginning to end if you don't think Phil colins

is a genius just from those 45 minutes I can't help you sing by the I think I think is their best album I think like there's too many great songs on this Selling England by the pound the lamb and fox Tru those albums ended up being huge huge influences for me dancing with moonlet night know what I like fth of fifth Cinema show like just to name a few off of it they're all I mean they're all great but those specifically they're Such Classics you know uh yeah it was kind of my Billy Cobin period

cuz Cobin with myish Drew me way you know Wonderful record that is they paid him a lot of money to say that to me it was the English sound it was the British you know it was little over complicated now probably it's quite a reference for young people who who go who's who's Phil cones the generation of drummers who were coming up in the 70s I think they were well aware of of him but you know when I grew up more in the in the late '70s 80s you know everyone knew his pop stuff you

know I don't think there was an appreciation even amongst drummers of what he could do I think he is the most underrated of all the Prague drummers everybody talks about Neil everybody talks about bruford but I think Phil's influence and importance in in that you know 70s 80s Prague era is just as important as those guys a photo of your kit from this tour and this is the first kit that actually looks like like a Genesis kit yeah the rack added rack added floor T SE glitch Boy again these drums sounded great you know so

different to what the concert Toms were concert Toms so now you've I mean you've transitioned to concert Toms what made you kind of start doing that as opposed to like the double-headed kits that you'd been playing until well they were easier to tune was one thing but my dad hated changing heads that's part of the sound is when they were played in that sound that when it's a new head it's a bit too clean break I guess yeah that sounds like the like they're supposed to Brad Marsh the our drum Tech he would dude he

would sit there before he would show up for sound check like stepping on them hitting them for like two hours to make sure they were like played in enough I hear a lot of attack I hear a really great attack I hear a lot of the top skin it's just so confident and so groovy and Power F and I love it I love [Music] it so these I'm assuming these are the four I guess four rack Toms concert Toms he has top 10 12 15 that's the kit I used on face value as well so

that's the in the air sound if you like the top two concert Toms were Pearl I remember but the rest were preier open bottom single-headed at Tom's like what a great thing What a great move and he always used a small like a 20-in bass drum which has an incredible sound what a great kick sound right there floor toms nice yeah just 1618 the floor toms for how I would think most drummers want their floor toms to sound like the concert Tom makes a lot of sense there not much resonance is you can get a

lot more kind of thud yeah you know out of it I mean I remember you tell me you you didn't you didn't have to tune him you just hit him harder was that was that the truth yeah you beat them into submission yeah I'm not sure if it was all Rim shots but I know he's like hitting the hell out of the drums I could be wrong but something about if the drums didn't sound good to him he just hit him harder I thought he's doing this because he's looking to present his personality through a

drum set yeah no problem with that it worked it worked some of the fills and some of the parts that have been in my dad's discography whether it's Genesis or him like there so signature to that drum set and you can't really replicate it without having that kind of [Music] Sound so enough for that when's the last time you sat behind this kit um I don't really know has your dad told you like about his first experience like being the singer the transition from drummer to singer is fascinating to me because one of the stigmas

with drummers are that we're not musicians and we should just kind of keep our mouth shut and sit back there and you know there's always Closs this thing as like you're a drummer and or a musician I it's no it's we're musicians you know sometimes I go back to like some of the old stuff where he was just singing this very very gentle like backup in the sweetest little voice and you think oh what a nice little voice he has you know and then it happens that's when he did the massive crossover and when Phil

M Collins became more than just an incredible drum with Genesis he became an iconic entity unto himself that part of him that allows him to literally go from behind the drums to the very front of the stage it's bold but to me that's f Collins not only did he step up and and become the singer but he did it beyond what people were uh expecting from him in the cage drawing Up listening to that on repeat the live versions with with chester playing I'm pretty sure it's a concept album that was way before my time

but this was the last one Peter was on I mean look they were already successful and had a fantastic singer Peter Gabriel and when Peter basically left the band instead of breaking up Phil took over the microphone and instead of getting moderate success they got even more success successful than they were before almost near the end of the tour was when he said he was going to leave so they were still had to play shows knowing that so didn't know what they were going to do after I think halfway through America he he told our

manager and uh I think Tony Banks got wind of it from then on we knew that Pete could leave at any time yeah mhm uh but we had 150 show T to do you know some people just start singing you're like dude where'd you learn how to sing I I don't know I just sing you know so he he had this thing that he focused on and became an amazing singer if I had to move from the drums to being the lead singer I think I would just die I don't think I could do that

at all I mean I was the one that said when Peter left Right Let's do let's do it instrumentally you know yeah and uh every body Jed and told me to shut up and get back in my box but um you know I can see that they were right you got to also understand Phil was a young actor this is a very important part as a young actor in in England he did a lot of theater as a kid so maybe that could be what like made it kind of easy for him to just assume

that kind of role the theatrical experience definitely helped me get up on stage and not not be nervous you know there are stories about after Peter Gabriel quit like they they were having auditions and so like they were just like oh yeah we're just goingon to audition singers like we're just going to get another singer you know hire some you know well-known British dude back back at the time but Phil Collins was like yo hey I got this I can do this as far as like the audition process goes I think he just wanted to

be asked by the guys if cuz he'd done backing vocals and I like you know he didn't want to be like I'll do it but he kind of wanted to be like pH you know what do you think if you did it it was not in my mind to become the singer it just just uh nobody else Really wanted the job he became the lead singer of Genesis I think that's stunning we had a long search for a singer that didn't amount to much I used to sing all the songs at the auditions to the

guys that were singing you know or coming to audition and I started to in general sound a bit better than they did you had a great voice great like a killer Persona on stage as a front man yeah it didn't bother me was it kind of easy for you because you knew how Peter sang and you knew the parts or did you just kind of go about it your own way well I kind of went about it my own way but I was singing Melodies that I'd grown up with tricker the tail this was first

one he sang on lots of great songs for him to come out with this album as the first one he sang on like with dance on volcano being the first track I think that was that was big the first Genesis that I really was passionate about and got into was the kind of the Phil Collins era where he was singing my very favorite Genesis album is Trick of the tale when you listen to the confidence and the husk of his voice from trick of the tale and wrer Duke and ABAB he had a thing he

was just full-on musclean Vocally from the first show The loved him because he was part of the band already it wasn't like a new guy had to come in and be like you know wi over the crowd my excuse was always my voice has been there in the background whether it's backing vocals or the odd lead vocal here and there and this one this is one of my favorite pictures it's um it was this was at the taken at the last ever Genesis show with him and Peter and that was really special it was emotional

to see them together because I think that there's just like Mison Inception that like there's like this beef because they're both singers but they love each other and when Phil started to sing he knew how to step into that role of that song we were cheering him because we believed in him when Peter left I didn't know Peter left I thought it was still him I thought it was Peter was Phil and I went get out of here that's amazing it's funny I was still called the new singer I joined in 1970 74 Peter left

and I've been there ever since but I'm still the new singer him stepping up that's saving the day that's like Superman type stuff right there man it just looks so dull you know if if I Was singing the whole show from behind the drums you know I didn't find it physically different difficult sorry um you know especially with the symbols and you're putting a screen up we didn't want to go there really he was just a drummer um and then everything changed when the microphone was put in front of his mou the first K I

did as a singer was in London Ontario and I went on and I didn't let go of the mic stand that became my drum kit it's kind of very eerie I always missed being be in the drums you know I thought I was better at that than I was singing you know so I missed it I don't even like the sound of my own voice when I talk and I can't change that so you're just going to think to yourself hey command the stage you do it behind the drums let's see if you can do

it in front did you feel vulnerable going just by yourself oh yeah yeah I can't imagine anything worse and also wasn't my idea but in terms of clothes you know I I'd had some clothes made at least it wasn't the costumes you know oh that wasn't me that was Peter you know in a second if it's a mistake or not was it yeah it was awful Peter just had This Aura you know costumes and the drama some of which he didn't do very naturally but he did it because there was a lot of instrumental stuff

and you know what do you do mhm you either go off stage or you stay there and do some the costumes and all the things that he would do I mean that's classic Prague what would progressive rock be without that era without Peter Gabriel dressing up as a flower or a butterfly whatever the hell he was doing yeah you know and he had this bace drum for a long time I mean he was a drummer as well so when I was there on stage he'd be wild with his bass drum and tambourine and it gradually

got filled with carpet so you couldn't hear it you know cuz it was there was lots of it's the closest we ever got to uh you know take off your clothes and live you know what do we got in here I'll let you rip the tape oh this one's new I thought this was going to be he didn't CHS and it would just look like a bus ran over these like the way he was just like smack the way he likes his heads yeah exactly I've got a way of working with it now where you

Know the audience can laugh and I don't feel bad about it I just want people to know that he's a drummer ladies and gentlemen that became a s I saw him as a drummer First Once a drummer always a drummer and I even think that he said somewhere that I am not a singer that plays the drums I'm a drummer that sings I'm not a singer that plays a bit of drums I'm more of a drummer that sings a bit he is a drummer first and I think in his head he's always been a drummer

Bill's a tap dancer so you got to understand that that that Buddy Rich was a tap dancer tap gives you a a movement and style of Rhythm and Phil car that into the drums creating a feel that is communicating with the audience to pull the audience in Phil did that all the time the Genesis stuff is a little complicated and it's a little tricky Dicky but my stuff is quite simple it's his fills that are so signature to me and here comes the Tom [Music] fi that one group are just just goes dot do and

G with the symbols and the kick and you go wow turn it on again jack go go go get out such a powerful feel the discipline of knowing he has the chops to blow But just those simple quarter notes or eighth notes or triplet you know simple things are usually the best it was like a staple to do a drum duet mhm um on all of his tours and I get a call from him at the hotel he goes hey Lou there's always a piece in the middle of the show where there's a druming thing

you want to put something together put it together let's play it Phil what was your inspiration for the two drummers was there a band or someone else you would seen um no well there's quite a lot of stuff that I was uh not singing on that it seemed you know obvious to go back to the kit was that almost like your version of the costumes was being able to go back to be able to play the drums yeah but it was you know I it just I had to become a singer if I was going

to stand there and do something yeah you know where I could go back to the drums and be me I'll see bands that do like the double and even triple drummer thing and I'm like kind of like why I love the intricacies of two different drummers playing at the same time but that was always a very special kind of a moment I think they really were able to play off of each other it Grew from me and Bill doing like 16 bars 32 bars whatever into Los OS and when we used to come off me

and Chester the crew would be there with uh the score card you know tonight's drum drum duet was 10 minutes in 44 seconds you know and they they bring it out cuz everybody disappeared you know they a beer or something it's such a drummer's thing to like okay watch this you know the drum do it was a total it was almost like a song you know and to have like an arena or a stadium be so into a you know just a drum thing was was like the coolest thing for me you know anytime you

bring the drums to the Forefront of culture and mindset it's a great thing so thank you film there was a fantastic song on Santana album and this the tune was a promise of a fisherman that oh blew my head away and I said you know why can't we do something like this yeah and that's what Los endos turned up as they were like breaking rules so again I said this guy Phil this guy's a rule breaker man is I loved it Los andos I think that's a pretty good middle ground between everything you've got the

big kind of Tom fils you've got a lot of that prier stuff That was in the track when it was recorded but I think yeah the middle ground I think losos would be a pretty good one Phil's just burning on it Chester with him burning on it and they do these drum trades and it's fabulous and those guys play together so well to have two amazing drumers doing that again in that kind of Arena environment is um pretty special and you know you still don't see it nowadays let alone you know back when they were

doing it did you enjoy writing that and being able to just have that as part of the set other than obviously the songs you were playing oh yeah I mean that's that's where I lived MH and I was very pleased to go back there few people know that he had a band during that time or before that time that I when I first got introduced to Bill Collins and I heard this record never heard about it before I bought it and discover Phil Collins only because it was an interesting name band Brand X you know

Phil Collins used to be at a band Brand X right I saw his name of drums Phil Collins oh and then when I got home I played it on the stereo and man it was so sensation unbelievable it just Seemed like randex was kind of the serious version of what he was able to do right I mean there's a lot of notes happening it's like you hear Mavish Orchestra and Return to Forever and Caba you hear all that stuff in there it's like oh my God Brand X that's a stly bad you know didn't change

the face of fusion music in that time it's interesting because I feel like I mean obviously now with you know newer generation you ask people you know who's Phil Collins they're going to tell you the singer but they'll tell you the guy who wrote in the air but then then there's the people who know that you were the drummer of Genesis but then there's the people who knew that you also did brandex stuff cuz I don't you know I think it's surprising when you hear the drumming on this listen to brandex and your head will

blow up my mind was was suit be blown is mad what was the thought behind making another mainly instrumental project well I mean I was listening to quite a lot of fusion stuff and one day I got a phone call from Island Records saying did I fancy coming down to the studios cuz uh you know they Got a good band but they need a drama and I went down another day and and sat in with him and just played all afternoon you know this music wasn't fashionable at all so we just did very few shows

but I did aspire to them playing in America so we did go to America once you know America is such a massive scope like the states so you become International from a you know little island in England it's a big step we played the Roxy in uh in LA and had a curtain yeah so we' run a tape all edited together and then the curtain would rise then it would RAR again you know yes it was Mayhem chaos and then one of the guitar players got bored and the singer got fired so and we became

the Brand X that those people that do know about it you know M that's the Brand X we became we got um photo of Brand X I think this is 78 it was a genius where he's still alive uh Percy James John good Soul a guitar PL died not longer but um it was never quite as Good as it could have been the guys would never play the same thing twice which you know can be inspirational but it could also be frustrating I was just finishing up a record with Jack Bruce up at the Manor

and I got a call from Phil and the call was would I like to come and play in Genesis but the problem was I just signed with Jack we we've signed a record deal with our Robert records I can't really do it bill bruford was there before Chester I almost joined Yes actually I went to see them loads of times at the maret one particular gig the guy I was sitting next to said you know they're all listening for a drama and I said you know no but I I love what Bill did anyway I

went backstage in the little Pokey dressing room and John Anderson gave me his number and said sure man call me you know in his squeaky voice and uh and I never did and I often wonder what would have happened if I had have gone you know I mean I wouldn't be here doing this probably um bill and I became great friends and when I took over the singing he was the F in fact I was rehearsing with Brand X and he was coming he came down to the rehearsal and said what are You doing and

I said uh Peter's left and uh we're going to go out on the road so we're looking for a drummer so that I can sing you know and he said well why don't you ask me I said well I didn't think you'd be interested you know and he said uh no i' I'd love to I'm I'm doing nothing bill was you know obviously he was a favorite with with the fans because of his yes connection and but Bill constantly put trip wires in front of him uh you know and I tried to convincing that sometimes

it's okay to do something that's a little predictable so that we know where we're going you know but he I think he felt he'd been there with yes and he was gonna be going to King Crimson at some point so I I don't think that interested him that much I thought oh my God you're going to be playing with Genesis bill I think had just left I think he had done the first tour and he called Chester because when I got up to the rehearsal room Chester was rehearsing with Genesis when Chester started playing live

with Genesis and was kind of the guy you know th would kind of come out and be the front guy I must admit I asked Chester join before I play played with him before I'd met him Because I'd heard the Roxy and else s with Ralph Humphrey and there was this one song called more trouble every day every drama love that one fil which Ralph humph and Chester Thompson played you know the rift that I've put in everything [Music] now and remember none of none of the guys had met him I'd only spoken to him

when I asked him to join and he came over and the first thing I asked him to do was to play that riff and then you know I played it as well and um we put it put it wherever we could my dad and Chester I think their chemistry was like was great and I think Chester you know at the time he was a huge deal but I think now people don't really put him in the conversation when he really kind of should be there for some of the great drummers and I think he's super

responsible for their live success and and continuing to be you know such a a big live band in you know in the once my dad became the singer onwards because having any drummer trying to replicate those parts you know may not have worked out but Chester like it made it seem like It was still a Genesis show it didn't seem kind of weird because somebody else was playing drums on it you don't have the most stable Throne so you should be careful going back yeah the next album was wind and weaing which I think it's

kind of an underrated one of your albums with Genesis this is your second album as the singer what was it like at this point writing writing and just kind of being more comfortable with that role in the studio as well I don't know 1975 one that you personally wanted on the list was what gorilla this was very influenced by weather report and it's one of my favorite things that that Genesis did for what gorilla did the drum part come first or was or was your drum part a response to something else no the the drum

part you know it was just one of those things that I played to warm up mhm and uh and the guys joined in I guess follow you follow me off of and then there were three so now it's just the three of you guys just you Mike and Tony was the dynamic different that it was just You three now for a long time it was Genesis wrote everything and then when Peter left we decided to get more specific and let people know who was responsible for what I'll always remember that when the record came out

Chester was still in weather report he was playing it on the weather report bus and Joe Z all said who's that that's H you know and when Chester told me that I you know I was blown away cuz it's a love song on the reunion you went back on the drums and and played it while you sang was it like a specific kind of vibe and and thing that you kind of just well I think the consensus was that it felt better when I played it there's some things on that record which I can't play

today well I can't play anything today was it hard to play at the time or was it just you know over you know no at the time it was easy mhm I mean easier certainly than it was you know I mean we just went for it and that was we didn't do it many times mhm you know God there's one song um down and out from and then there were three which I know me And Nick were going to include in the original list and he said I don't know if my dad wants to do

that one well that that period of Genesis and then there were three I I'm not particularly fond of this is just you know from personal point of view I mean I do some fills on down and out that I couldn't do today well you know I did them in the studio and and they worked great but um that was when I was you know I only just become the singer a couple of albums in so I was very intent on Chops trying to do things that I had never done before so so down and out

is I mean I haven't heard it for ages but I mean it's uh it's a period piece this is the one I had as a kid so I still have it this one the first the first song come on you know behind the lines and that was it get back to there you know I mean power stuff of Genesis and then how he transformed it into to what it was later than his own solo stuff the music's very different I think he sort of modernized Genesis these proc people that love Genesis in the 70s were

kind of like what is this crap you know it's like well you know it's spoke to the masses and I love that I think that that took balls if they would have stayed in the old Prague rock kind of area that wouldn't have worked today it was honestly very difficult for me to watch not only Genesis but some of the transition that a lot of the Prague bands went through when they were almost like trying to become a little bit more commercial you know and then some of them really failed miserably at becoming commercial of

course Genesis was able to on so many levels have a lot of success with that Phil Collins was a legit drummer but really what gets me is he playing on the popons when Genesis were in their in like the mid 80s or early like well just the 80s in general I think for them like obviously as a band they were in their Prime and the set list was now so like you know you had the Prague stuff but then you also had the newer stuff and you can tell he's rocking That 80s haircut That '

80s mullet in a sold out Wembley that's such a statement yeah yeah and during the the 80s you can see that they were trying a lot of electronic stuff they were really trying to come up with something different you know the Gated Reverb thing with hu padum what's more 80s defining than that Phil Collins was pretty much the music the pop environment oh I remember hearing uh Phil Collins uh on the Genesis record and thinking like this is really good at the Melody Maker Awards which back in the' 70s was held every year and all

for Zeppelins and Peter Grant their manager they turned up to collect I can't remember what it was now but we won International live act and I remember them walking in it was almost like we'd stolen a bit of their Thunder because they were huge then I just kick myself for not going over and saying hello but they had such a bad reputation you know with with their their crew they just you know less said about that the better yeah I love that I love that Phil that is it that is the one Phil's drumming is

so iconic that every single time I'm in a rehearsal the MD the musical director will say to me do the Phil Collins thing and I know exactly what that means it's usually [Music] the how can you sing gated Reverb I guess is the question a little bit of the Gated Reverb You know a little fuzz this sounds like some rigle [ __ ] what was the thought process behind doing your first solo record after being in a band for so long was it were you nervous about putting it out and then you know writing it

what was it like just doing it by yourself you know it was if I was honest and why start now um I remember very distinctly Army Eran was in London and uh he and I always got along great so I went up to his uh house and we had a couple of drinks and I said I got a cassette here if you want to hear it he said I'd love to hear it so I put it on and they were just my demos you know and uh he said whatever you do with this I want

to be involved which gave me the kind of confidence I needed so I went home quite full of myself and there there was no real drums on anything those old drum machines yeah we were in England and we were rehearsing at shepperton Studios I was going to be leaving and having a car take me back and he said are you going back into London I said um yeah I could give you a ride back there I sat in the front seat with him and he had a cassette and he had In the air tonight and

I missed again on this as demos and I didn't know yet what kind of writer Phil was because he hadn't really stepped up as a writer and what I heard in the air tonight just a cassette and I thought this will be great on an album I didn't listen to that song and say it's going to be a hit I just thought it would be a great album track as soon as the drums start that up you know you could feel kind of a bolt of energy go through an audience then drummers may be like

man that's a simple feel anybody can do that maybe true and said but they it's the energy that comes along you know he that energy is inside that that that that field so you feel it you feel it a certain way and so when I when I left Phil I just thought he's going to do a solo album once he started going in the solo world and it was very impressive that drum sound that's the sound you know I mean it pretty much dictated the the rest of that decade I just froze man I was

like what is that and you could see like physically people would react to it and I remember collapsing and his guy saying [ __ ] hell what is that so it was just a little Thing but that became the flagship that huge sound you created I guess accidentally just became a staple it's become a staple it's it's it's like the fabric of of the Universe I just want to play this and Phil Collins is the reason why I own this drum machine I actually learned about him through the uh there was this amazing commercial in

Australia with a drumming gorilla and he did the In the Air Tonight Phil and I was like who the hell where did this come from that Phil uh kind of had another life of its own in Australia cuz it got used in like a chocolate ad and it was like a gorilla and it's the start of that song and it's just fading in and [Music] then it really goes crazy and yeah that it had another life of its own maybe 10 or so years ago on the original demo in the air you'd have to hear

it to believe it but there was no film it was just an stranger to you and me smoke a ball and put that thing on and try to guess when it's coming and you fall off the chair it was so good I still think one of the greatest moments on stage for me and it's Consistent every single show is in the air tonight the anticipation that builds up in an audience you got to wait to get to that part it don't happen in the beginning you know say you got to be patient and at the

last second this other third drum kit would come up out of the floor and he would step into it and do the fil and the place would go insane and I just sit there just going genius I guess it was the 9 6 97 dancing to the light to I used to walk around the stage and then you know go up a few steps and then I'd get to the drum school just in time and I was walking around I didn't see the usual lights coming up and I thought that's weird at this point in

the stage like there's only one kit there his kit isn't there anymore and so he's singing the song and he's walking around and everybody's getting a little nervous they're like there there was no drum kit it was on a lift but it was still on the floor inside this hole in the middle of the stage and I I didn't know what to do you know Gab everyone that listens to that song even now they're waiting for that Phill right this tension's Building so I uh I jumped into the hole and I course played the Phil

yeah and sang it but none of the audience could see me at all and at the end I came out of the hole explain to the audience what had happened but you can't play that song again you know with it all happening [Music] [Laughter] got to be a little more creative with it I want to uh settle the debate on the uh on the fil the in the Airfield we don't know necess I mean I know how I played it but I don't know if that's correct of if there's a kick between the floor TOS

so if it's you [Music] know or if [Music] it's s nothing in between so I played it wrong for a whole tour we're both wrong there's no kick in between yeah well I mean the fallacy about the in the airfill is that it was all carefully thought out you know that's the feel that I did that particular take on that particular day he changed the world of of drumming the sound everybody had to get a Noise Gate after that come on we went into the townhous house which had this live room I'd done three or

four tracks with Peter and if you were to sit in there and and clap or you know play the drums you really didn't think it was that live it was Stone but it wasn't really that that live but if you know i' worked with Peter Gabriel in there and realized that if you put the microphones in the corners and uh compressed them it sounded fantastic you know and he said uh what is that I said nothing I'm just playing with the sound I'm hearing he said well give me that for 10 minutes so I I

played that no deviations no feels for 10 minutes and I went into the control room I said what what are you going to do with that and he said I don't know yet but I'm going to use it on something well that became the Intruder and I said to him can I have a copy of that drum Loop he wasn't too happy about it I just wanted to remember the sound Peter Gabriel solo record that he played on with Intruder the bir birth of a gated Reverb hearing Intruder for the first time and I had

to find out who is this playing drums you know and it's Phil Collins I'm like oh my God so by the time me and Hugh padum had gone in to do my tracks in the Air came up on the list there was still no drum fil and from what I've learned about that he just played it off the cuff didn't think much about it I mean I must have done four or five different fills well Hugh did his finessing and that was that you know and I I went in to listen to it we all

agreed we didn't have to do it again most any musicians I know they record something in two days later that we should have recorded a different way I can't imagine Phil Collins ever feeling like that and arm it was very hip you know when we we we CAU the record and he said where's the downbeat I said it's there he said you know that I know that but the kids won't know that so you're going to have to put some extra drums on and we just spent months finishing this record so I went to Studio

that was run by 10cc and I set a drum kit up in the hallway and played along to the mix that's what came out as a single but on the the album it was there was no drums apart from drums sh yeah changed my life coming in the air T night night hey thank you you know you never think it's going to happen to you I mean I never had any doubt in my ability But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to happen you know the fact that we're living in the time of Phil

Collins is almost equal to what it was like when people were living in the time of Mozart the greatness of this artistic being and all the influence I'm so happy that I grew up in that time where this is what great pop music was it's Timeless what he's done is timeless he got Classics wow Phil KH this name is everywhere this guy is doing everything an amazingly accomplished drummer who also went on to be one of the most successful solo artists of all time do people realize that they're living in the time of someone like

Phil Collins of greatness that will be around 1002 200 years I remember specifically my mom brought this record home with this dude's face as big as the record like you know cuz this is vinyl days and his face was like bam here I am well you know trying to find a cover for a record is like giving a baby a name you know it's not the easiest unless you put your face on the cover of course you know when that's easier it's probably my favorite one of his solo albums I think it's like the most

expressive work that he's done You know he was great at everything and when he'd sit at the piano he was great when he's singing he's great now we're starting to understand that his musicianship is bigger than just the drums for me it was kind of inspiring to see drummers becoming really hit makers and and producers and I think this was like a big moment for him just be able to do it himself it's a lot of what wasn't used on Duke ended up kind of coming on here but actually behind the lines which was on

Duke but changed it I mean I'm sure we'll talk about it with him but they they're rewinding and it was faster and he's like that's kind of cool that sounds like a sounds like a fun song and he asked like can I use that on like my solo record before we go into face value we wanted to bring up your behind the lines version that's on face value how did that how did that I mean cuz it's the same track but obviously a completely different concept how did you come up with that we were AB

studio in Stockholm and we were recording Duke and you know an easy way of erasing things if you wanted to clean up a track was by recording It you know putting it in record at Double speed and so uh instead of it came out was and we all looked at each other and said hey Jackson Five you know and then Mike and Tony cuz I had kind of you know this thing with horns they said you should do it so uh I think I got a a copy of it sped up and uh it became

one of the songs on Facebook mhm with the horns so Phil Collins played with Genesis at the Nita ZX stadion which holds about 60,000 people right they sold that out I think twice okay and then Phil came back with his new solo album literally I think half a year later or a year later and sold it out three times that's absurd that's like obscene success that's unbelievable back with your solo stuff and take me home from no jacket required do you remember much about writing that I mean to me like the in a way the

drums they're placed as almost like overdubs cuz the main thing is the drum machine yeah the idea was to I did all the drum machine parts on real drums throughout the song and then we faded the drums in so that slowly the machine became real drums playing with the drum machine if if you've Got a band and you've been rehearsing it is is is okay but concept from monserat you know the studio in monserat and George Martin it had very very bad storm or the volcano I don't know the volcano was later it kind of

erupted and that was the end of that so all the people that had been to monserat and recorded in his Studio we were asked to put together a concert at the AL but I just decided to ditch the drum machine and I started it on Congers and it worked really well actually and I think that's that's where it it started to stray away yeah um from the original version what made you start using drum machines well we we uh in 77 we went to Japan and Roland offered to give us three of the new drum

machines they just kind of finished and of course I had yet to do any of this and I said I don't want to Dr sh that and I can do without that so I uh came home I called up P who's been with me all his life I said uh where's um that drum machine that I didn't want and so he said uh oh it's in the barn I think I said well get it out will you cuz I might find a use for it I mean I used it on everything to be honest And

then if I didn't need it I'd took it out mhm but this I love the all the Simmons pads on the side and how you started integrating them you know there's that drum solo where he starts playing the Simmons as well as the as the real thing yeah you remember the first time you played as Simmons and how that kind of started back in those days uh like four Micah heads and they were supposed to be you know like very bad fists and everything now I think I'm probably paying the price dude I they're so

hard and they just they're too hard to play they hurt it was famica like your kitchen counter and that from was a completely different feel than what the drum was like so I believe the same thing happened with a lot of the Simmons players they played it the way you hit a drum and you can't because now what happens is you accept the shock trigger finger carpal title tennis elbow I mean on the album we just used the Simmons and then eventually we got into the Triggers on stage so you'd have a mixture of live

drums and and Simmons I mean there was so many tracks that just the character came from whatever Was happening on the drums you know invisible touch so some more Simmons do you remember so when when you came up with that was that just revolved around that kind of fi of or was that kind of placed in after that you know the guitar and keyboards and it was based on a guitar riff of mics I programmed something so I could sing and uh I just started singing she seems to have that invisible touch yeah she seems

to have and that ended up being one of my favorite Genesis Tunes I still have Genesis uh cassettes I I I think I can find in the garage right now invisible touch I remember that as a kid every time I'd come home you know just like you know whether it was I was seven whether I was 12 no matter what you know complaining about a girl or something you're like hey that's what invisible touch is about man you know what I mean I have that vivid memory in my head from you know me being a

kid the Simmons drums were not my favorite phase of drumming in general I know there's the little trigger um sensors in there too cuz you know he was using a Simmons Kit back in the 80s but then he started like you know they had the module and they just you know plugged it in to the to the actual drum so it was I didn't know he actually triggered them off his uh his acoustic hit back then but what was cool is is like you know you could hear that there was they were blending the real

drums with the triggers which like to me made that they made the live version sound bit more normal cuz like home by thec on the record is straight Simmons which is you know when you're in the studio it sounds but like live having the kind of the beef of the real drums yeah it helped a lot is that second bit of home by the SE where the Simmons come in is that all kind of just you playing around with what you were hearing or was that kind of a Groove that had been sitting around for

a bit you know I'd gone through some of the the presets and I never really got too much into it you know inside the thing but that was definitely John [Music] bonam I mean it can't all have been When the Levy Breaks I mean by this point we had moved into the Genesis studio and that had a live room but that live room was Totally different sound to the townhouse Li room still Stone but different Stone you know I used to Crank It Up through these monitor speakers and uh played with the sound and then

I came I came up with the rhythm of the second part if you like and then we kind of improvised a lot around it we had this the guru plan you know I just started improvising whole home by the sea I don't know why I sang that but home by the Sea we'd always wanted a studio of our own because we would didn't want to keep looking at the clock you know and it didn't matter we used to go there for weeks and just improvise at this point you started doing a lot of work as

producing records you know any memories about how that was different than doing your own thing who mentioned what is it Freda you know what blew me out from Phil Collins is when he did that song for Freda from ABBA it's not an intricate hard Tod do thing the groove of it is is amazing like that was a pop hit I loved the song he did with Freda I know something's going on that song's badass feel Groove production what do you say something going on by Freda it's like that's Phil I know it It's got to

be you know then you look it up it's like yeah Phil Collins he actually produced The Record with all these things that you did all these performances was there anything else that you wish you could have done maybe an artist that you could have played with or a band you could have played with joeo you know I just love what he does did we played The Syndicate North Sea jazz festival and it was town and Buddy Guy Joe AR came to my Caravan you know it was indoors but it was there was no dressing rooms

and he you know it was like it was like meeting God you know he invited me over to his Caravan and we had a couple of SLI ofices we exchanged numbers and I I stayed in touch with him he used to send me postcards and I would send him messages but I I wish I'd have played with him although I would have been scared stiff so no I I have no feelings that I wish I'd pursued this or hadn't done that because you know one thing leads to another you played on one of Robert Plant's

first solo records uh called pictures out 11 you wouldn't know it and he he sounds like bonum it's incredible the drums are just Jumping off the airwaves I remember I was at home a phone r and I picked it up and you know this guy said hello is that Phil so I said yeah he said it's Robert Plant here you know and I was quite Star Struck and he said uh defy playing drums on my record you doing a solo album so went to Rockfield studio and I kind of took over a little bit you

know sometimes you got to whip people into shape yeah and he uh he's never forgotten it I mean I was doing Genesis and my thing and I mean zeepin were in the past and uh he he read that as encouraging him to go out and and and start again really MH and I was very proud to be part of that Phil being called by the big the Robert plants and the Eric claptons as well as Genesis being in stadiums and then Phil's like but I got to do a tour and I'm in stadiums and I'm

topping the charts on my own I did two Eric Clapton albums and one of which I was producing and the other one that Jamie oldacre was playing drums that was behind the sun we did one song Together me and Jamie which is just like a prisoner that was a magical session I mean when people asked you to produce their record was it kind of expected that You were going to play drums on I mean I know you said this one you you had you know somebody else as well but was that kind of the case

you think I think some people thought they you know they get matching chy and handkerchief you know juice it and you play the drums and you give us an in the air tonight I mean I did a track I just played on it I didn't produce it Tears for Fears Woman in Chains and they had the back in track and they had even had Elita Adams vocal and Roland said to me so the drums come in here and we want something like an In the Air Tonight feel you know and you can only really do

that once in your life and I said uh you mean you you want a big you want me to come in with something big and he said yeah like like in the a there's a bit of that baggage comes with you you know I always love the drumming on uh Easy Lover up next we've got Easy Lover which is you and Philip Bailey such a great tune what a Groove what a Groove what a Groove I think it is pure gold I mean the Chinese rule is is quite a good album we'd gone through the

whole record and we hadn't done anything together so the last literally last couple of days Is Philip said we should try to do something together you know and I we we' done most of the hard work already so I said sure and we just you know literally just picked a few things out of the out of the the blue and and then I went home that night and uh wrote the words it was originally called choosy lover but doesn't have the same ring no it's seems like the time to record it he just play it

once or twice and that was it because it sounds So Fresh So natural we did a version you know the first night we wrote it just so we wouldn't forget it and what we ended up using was that cuz it had an energy and uh sound and George massenberg was fantastic engineer that's a beauty piece of 80s pop he kind of quotes himself uh with the drum fills on that one [Applause] good album that and happy memories you know used have cares most evening and pint of ler and Philip Bailey was not used to that

at all you know but we became a thing where we have to have our pint of logger and lime good fun that's as far as I know is the only song that you produced that wasn't on Your record that always was in your live show was it just because it was just a hit and since you had written it you felt it was right to put it in the the set as well yeah it was it's one of those examples of when you you capture something with the sound the energy of having writing it as

you go along you know yeah I mean it became a you know stage favorite too through his career he's been a Pioneer in beachs grew M fills that are important recording engineering production The Sounds the Gated Reverb thing was only a thing because he decided to do it and I think the artistic kind of vision of just like do what you want to do and if it's good people are going to like it and I feel like the 80s is very big powerful I mean that was kind of the decade right like that's what everybody

was kind of striving for the room recordings were so present back then in the 80s and late 70s you know drum gods of the late '70s and ' 80s were actually really influenced by Phil Collins the mine is the influence goes into our recordings directly pretty much everything has a purpose everything is musical you could almost sing all of his fils [Music] back God Did It Again BBE just One More Night the hits I mean the [ __ ] hits out of this guy is just like amazing suu studio and oh come on I mean

those were the hits hit maker on a lot of his songs when we were in the studio he was just kind of humming Melodies he hadn't really come up with all his lyrics yet a lot of people ask what does cudio actually mean cudio yeah uh it was just no nothing it was a word I made up and I couldn't think think of anything else better to replace it with so I just I just kept it I mean my oldest daughter had a horse called CIA was that after or that was after it went through

different incarnations as different tours went on and finally just became this giant showcase song say pH say pH what do you think about [Music] this I don't care anymore off hello must be going so this is your second solo record I think this one was the year after but I don't know how long you took to get back into the studio straight away yeah I don't remember now we did that at the Genesis Farm rather than at townhouse studios in London we were out in Guildford or wherever very cool Studio the hallway going into the

drum room was Just lined with platinum records and gold records and stuff and then we'd be sitting in the studio and I'd look out the window and like a deer would come and look in the window and stuff H all must be going was a little harder cuz I didn't have so much apart from a few leftover you know building blocks and I hadn't been on the road on my own until I'd done two albums so there were some things that were really good on that album I mean I don't care anymore was was quite

a big song the drum partk creates such a sort of like um menacing type of uh Vibe you know when I was doing that TR vocally we were sitting down listening to it just having done the master vocal I said to the tape up the assistant I said that vocals should be in by now and uh he was recording over it so I had to do that again the horn players you know they I was quite tight with them by this point but these guys you know they couldn't drink [Music] and uh Thomas Washington who

was the arranger TomTom 84 he was on the Earth with fire records and I I thought it was a computer cuz their their stuff was like you know and uh it turned out Tom Tom 84 was this guy it's all like that you know and uh I think it hit The bottle early in the sessions because uh he had h padum crying just wash my fingers H when I do that you punch in he was told to start recording by by TomTom and uh he wasn't ready you know he wasn't didn't have a balance really

yet it was uh not a very happy start to that record from their point of view there's so many cool grooves that he does that are really just based around the kick and the times and then maybe the snare That's Unique man not a lot of rock guys do that the drums on that start with the microphones inside the concert H and as the song progresses it gets liver and then it goes back at the end to it being you know wow you know this is how Tom should sound and also I was using a

different drum machine awful thing called the movement and the rythmics had used it and I I I don't know why I got old of one but the sounds were different so on that track you you get this K on you know like these like metallic sort of sounds and that I use that on most of the record a lot of drummers think that the groove starts with the toms but I think Nick I was talking to you and you said that the group starts with the kick correct me but the one is the One yeah

I mean it was I mean I I saw it quite normally and naturally but some of the other guys you know I had to count them in because there there was no beat where they were used to having a beat in fact even on the last tour Brad Co he will play you know sometimes would be on the wrong bait yeah take take a bit extra long to come in with the keyboard it's not labeled which ones are which right no I no there's no numbers I would assume this one's for the ride the ride

symbol ride a great sounding ride especially the symbols in a so high position looked great but it's not that good for the back I know Vinnie had the back problem because of this because he's sitting so l on also don't know how that works I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with this at that time years ago the gear wasn't that great the sound systems weren't that great you didn't hear things that well you were always generally uncomfortable performing at that level it almost looks like it's like um like a soda cap thing

you know we had symbol St you crashed a symbol and it fell over look at these man These are like these are ancient I mean you start playing you're playing and in the first tune your drums are falling apart I'm going to put it like this I don't know if it's ni so now now you're not comfortable and you're reaching you're adapting we had too many challenges years ago that affected our physical adaption that were working against him was this just always the setup or do you kind of wish that maybe you had set it

up differently to prevent you know what maybe happened to your back from having to be like this the whole time or did you weren't you thinking were you not thinking about it at the time yeah know way it always felt natural to me mhm I mean not particularly like it is now mhm but when I was playing and I could get things in the right place there's this movement and if you look at the way Phil had his drums set up it it was all up here and these Toms are all around here and it

looks like it's hard to play because it it it is you have a China or a crash back here that you're trying to get the next day you're like oh my God I feel like probably a pitcher that just you know threw out his rotator Cup I think he spent mostly his his hours thinking about how great of a song to write and how you know how big of a hook he create with the drum part and I applaud him for that and I think that's amazing dude half of these are like stri this is

from 1999 on the uh the big band record the promo for that this is co I love like the the signature Jazz thing you know with the initials on the front of the kick and I think not a lot of people know that he did the big band but I think that was I mean he grew up super influenced by Jazz and I know that was something he had to do and I think Buddy Rich's band was his backing band like the horns and some of them you know what I mean as well as some

of the guys in his band like I think Daryl was involved Brad Cole uh Luis Conte people go out and they have money and they buy a yacht he bought a big band it was a lot of fun we did a couple tours with that I saw him playing big band I seen him playing drums Quincy Jones I think was directing I just saw this guy dud just killing what made you want to start your own big band after all this time and I guess in a way now you're celebrity wise Or just popularity wise

you're kind of peak of your powers and to go and do something completely different where you're not singing and you're not doing all the hits you're doing and a jazz thing it always appealed to me the sound of you know but you know it was something that that I kind of felt I had to do at some point so to go out on tour and exclusively just play jazz music and just completely change gears and do that I think was you know really ballsy and I think it was great his superpower as a drummer is

his versatility he can do it all I mean the original premise was that we'd get big band arrangers to take a pick of whatever songs I had or Genesis had and arranged them you know for big band we did pick up the pieces which uh you know was 25 minutes long and we did two shows in a night so by the time we got round to the second show everyone was completely exhausted when we were first rehearsed first in Mantra someone come up to me and said we're going to have a 10-minute break I said

what for what are you your hand you weaklings I wonder like what like how it was advertised when fans were showing up is it like you know it must cuz I'm sure like I know the kind of person he is it would have been like by the way this is jazz I'm not going to be singing In the Air Tonight I'm not going to be singing you know all this playing the shows and maybe people being like well you know play in the air or something like did you you ever get that no I think

it got up people's nose that I didn't sing on the second tour with aliter Adams they didn't want to hear her sing and I was offended by that and I I said to them you know I won't be singing tonight and even in La Quincy Jones came on stage just before the Encore and lectured the audience about how they weren't going to hear stuff like this again and I'm thing yeah in Detroit I came off stage and said [ __ ] them cuz usually I came back on and sang a couple of songs not that

they would have been satisfied with that because they were they weren't the songs they wanted to hear you know they were standard but this kit was the kit that he had set up downstairs when when I was a kid okay and so the like the first kit when I sat on his lap and started tapping was the big band kit I don't know where it is now I'm sure it's somewhere like In storage I was asked to to to play in a Grammy salute to Jazz the phone call I got was like did I want

to play with Tony Williams and Buddy Rich you know and I said yeah sure and I went into the rehearsal room and there was Buddy on his kit Tony Williams HBY Hancock Ron Carter BB King Dizzy Gillespie stett there was all of these names so I sat down at my kit and Buddy Rich said 50 years in this [ __ ] business and all they give me is eight bars of [Music] brushes and Tony Tony Williams said I'm playing mallets what are you playing so I said I'm playing sticks and suddenly I had the you

know best gig and uh the guy handed out music you know and I I went cold you know the funny story about this is he he doesn't know how to read music I don't really know how to read music either and I said what do I do with this my dad would listen to it and then make his own version and his notes were like almost looked like a comic book it was like pow bang you know like bang on four or whatever it was like people used to come around and look at what my

part and laugh you know it didn't make any sense to anybody else fortunately it made sense to me and The arranger counted off the tune and [Music] you and I said oh why don't they why don't they write that out you know oh a shudder when I think about it well after about two or three run throughs I went up to the arranger I said I I don't think this is for me it wasn't always smooth you know and I kind of grown up enough to know when to extract myself from the situation uh cuz

there's no point in just being there to make up the numbers when really you shouldn't be there at all and before I left uh buddy came up and said so you produce records how about producing one for me said call me of course I'd love to so it all came around in the end the Tarzan soundtrack [Music] [Applause] [Music] yeah the tribal jungle beats are so appealing to me I think I'm at that age where maybe the first Phil Collins music I was aware of was the Tarzan Soundtrack This is brilliant what he did how

he he captured the feeling of the storyline into pop music into a Disney movie people tend to sort of toally a cartoon I mean I worked for 5 years on that and then another couple of years on the the stage musical I mean I knew that stuff backwards And forwards I mean it's not kid stuff you'll be that's Phil no no matter what yeah that one right like that's uh you be in my heart dude dude I've listened to that song 750 times this was a Tarzan Premiere horrible haircut like I said like as a

childhood I just knew him as like a solo guy and like the the singer and so the Tarzan was kind of part of that too and that kind of being a soundtrack to me as like a really kind of young kid did you start with the drums and then move to the melody or was it the other way yeah I mean it starts off with the some rhythmic pulse I mean tarz and obviously you know I mean I got thought of for Taren presumably because of you know the drums you know to be involved in

that you know working with an orchestra and especially when the musical came out you know I was I was had to write some new songs and that was some of the best stuff I I I I did and it was me stretching my envelope as a songwriter was that a tough decision to make to end that last tour and and officially retire or do you still miss being on the road it's still kind of sinking in a bit you know I'm 71 I've spent all my life playing drums to suddenly not Be able to do

that is a shock we don't really ever know when we're going to get the last piece of creative work from an artist if you were walking down the street and met Phil he had no idea who he is and you got into a conversation and you said to him so what do you do he would say I'm a drummer before anything else man he is a happy camper sitting back there and that's also one of the real heartbreaks was the fact that that he lost that it breaks my heart you know because I was first

a fan of his drumming and and he you know I was slayed by the stuff that he did behind the instrument you know I mean the drumming has taken its toll on my uh my hands legs it's terribly sad that somebody so talented and so so good at that has had that sort of taken away from them what we get to see is the fruits of their labor but we don't know exactly how tough certain moments are for them if I can't do what I I did as well as I did it I'd rather relax

and and not do anything if I wake up one day and I can hold a pair of drumsticks and then I will have a crack at it but just you know I just feel like I've used up my air miles you like the suspension on a Car you know you do put 100,000 miles on it and the suspension is going to suffer 50,000 mil no oh I've been touring for only 13 years and all my joints and everything are feeling it already cuz you do six shows a week and the guys through the 70s and

80s and 90s they D they went a hundred you know that style of touring to where it is now obviously you're seeing all of that catch up to not only Phil but a lot of other you know incredible iconic musicians people in bands in general had like this thought that like they're invincible and I think that's why you saw that Reckless Behavior of like you know it was like the who or Zeppelin back in the day I'll deal with it later we were Invincible when we were teenagers and young so I think that's really what

it is with my dad is just this kind of sense of like you know you're drummer you're Invincible you just do what you do but you don't know it's going to take a toll in the long run his physicality was compromised enough where he had to really walk away from it I didn't know how serious it was though I had no idea that he was having The kind of problems and I didn't even know that until about 2016 when we did um a little dreams Foundation thing that Nick was involved Nick was like what 16

and Phil said I'm Nick is going to be playing drums I'm go what so we're almost at the end of the video now and I hope you guys have been enjoying it so far just wanted to remind you guys again that we put together a free ebook for you guys with some behind the scenes photos some sheet music and some more information about the songs that my dad has been talking about you can check it out at the link in the description and it's totally free and it'll help you get more out of the [Music]

video you could easily just go that's it I'm done but he's trying and you got to admire that in this way [Music] can you talk a bit about your dad's injuries he's kind of had a few injuries like throughout the years I mean I think it all stems down to like you know playing drums and the issues that he's had with his back I mean he had back problems throughout the years and I mean that goes hand in hand with just getting older but I think you know he had a big surgery on his neck

that stemmed from All those years playing drums and just bad posture and stuff which caused him to have drop foot which basically means that in his one of his feet he has like no sensation which is why he can't really play drums and why he has to like walk with a cane because he doesn't just have that control that he used to anymore which sucks and I know he wishes he could like sit behind a kit and just play the way he could it is what it is and what I can do with that is

just like learn and even when I set up the same kit like the concert on kit I have to set it up differently because I'm like I can't go down that road no there's no way maybe I refuse to think it was this bad for my dad it was more he was great up playing drums and that worked and that setup was great and he could do everything he could do and I don't think he was necessarily thinking about oh you know this is going to take a toll on my back in the long run

like he was fine Phil would walk out and he'd have a king I could see that some people thought oh my God what happened then he'd sit down in the chair and he'd he'd say something to the audience and he'd just win them over me it' be like 80,000 people going Crazy and you realize at that point that they don't care what condition he's in they want to be in the presence of Phil but man you know having all those issues he still went out there on tour it's a real trooper you know all of

us in our Heart of Heart fantasies always hope that there we'll get that call and say let's just do one more you know that's one more time well we are Genesis and we are here to entertain you tonight at that point I I was totally understood the magnitude of Genesis coming back and so it was also kind of a level of nervousness like are we going to like be able to like pull this off those are heavy shoes to fill whether it's your pop or not it's like the weight of the world is is on

your shoulders that's an inspiring story that's he's not like okay I'm retired I'm done I can't do this anymore Nick is kind of carrying in the torch for him now which is really cool I'm sure Phil must be very proud of him we were playing I don't know what year it was now the Alber Hall Mike and Tony were there in the audience you know we played there six five six nights it was suggested that he you know because you know They were all impressed by the fact that how well he played it sounded like

me when I was younger with you a bit of fire and well they both agreed that it it could it could work you know and and that kind of sold me on on to on do the band thing again and I think me being able to do it with him definitely helps him want to get back on the road um cuz I think at by the end he just wanted to be with his family and and spend time with like people that matter to him but I think as I started playing charity shows maybe the

idea may have popped into his head and after the US Open he asked me he was like you know I'm thinking of going back on tour do you want to play drums with me I'm like absolutely you know AI saw it as has given Nick a taste of what life could be like and also an opportunity if you like it was something of his first performances in like you know almost a decade but the first show for his tour which was in Liverpool it was like a warm-up show that we did cuz we were going

to go do like five nights at the Albert Hall in London we did that and that was the first show I played and that was like the Most nervous I've been and at that point now I've realized the magnitude of it's he's coming back he's doing shows again he gave the people something because Phil still was on stage doing those songs performing being a great personality that he is and even though he's not playing drums and just singing he's still delivering the music music like the young actor that's inside of [Music] him Nick was like

what 16 and I've known Nick ever since he was born you know he came out man just nailing all the parts on it and then darl told me like when they did the Genesis tour after that his playing had gone up like another 50% at that point he was that much better I had done my homework and they knew that and so they felt comfortable playing so I think that was the first thing that eased everything I was like okay so musically we've you know we're we're okay I never looked at Nick as like H

he got in the band because he's you know yeah he got in the bend because he could do it I mean I'd known Daryl my whole life and I'd played with Daryl for a couple of years on my dad's tour so him being there was like a real kind of like you know it Just very reassuring the first rehearsal it was like what right away even stepped up more than I even expected I forgot about this one which was me during my teenage years with my red and black mapex kit in my childhood bedroom I

was getting into drums but it was you know I was still kind of trying to find out what I wanted and what I liked and what I wanted to do but when I you know started playing in bands together that's when I was like realized that like that's what I wanted to do in life obviously you can tell that he's had some influence and training from his dad at such an early age because I mean who can play all that stuff at 16 are you gonna go around the world with it you got a passport

Daddy's interviewing you have you got a [Music] passport uhoh uh oh did you teach Nick how to play when he was younger no I didn't really want to be responsible for that but yeah he definitely was a huge help when I needed you know like to ask him some questions but he also sometimes like totally gave me pointless advice where he'd be like Like on supper's ready I was like Dad like you know I just can't really get this part down the keyboard solo doesn't seem to be in 9A but you're playing 9A but then

you're doing something else while you know while Chester's doing something he's like I don't know dude like he's like like they wrote that I was away like you know and then I came back they written the Riff and I just kind of recorded what was on Fox Tru and I was just like that does not help me whatsoever ever dude like like I'm like I need some sort of guidance he's like just remember the Riff no I used to just learn the Rifts you know I mean they but I remember you telling me when I

asked you was just stick to the Riff and know the Riff and maybe he wanted me to figure it out by myself but I think like a big part of it it was you know the way he approached it was very live very feel- based and kind of wanted me to kind of do the same thing with you know you know all the songs on the set and then this this big one was the first one of the first like charity performances I did with him probably asking him for advice And him telling me that

he didn't know either you know which is the common theme when I ask him for advice we used to had this thing secret number one secret number two and I I was amazed just how there was a Groove even when he was very very [Music] young my way of helping not teaching but helping was to have these things which we called Secrets it was either like special secret number one or secret number something there's a few little tips and I guess calling it something was a way for me to remember him and it was like

you know stuff like keeping the high hat going while you're playing a groove on the toms or on the symbols or always hitting the kick on the symbol or keeping the kick going through fills and that kept going for quite a while that was like the kind of easy way for him to give me some sort of tip while not kind of being overbearing and and you know too much you sit down and play the bass Dr with your foot you're using the high hat more you're playing more rhythms look he'd be playing something and

go into secret number three you know it was constantly getting better and constantly getting Better the biggest instruction was put your earplugs in um after all like the ear damage he's had from over the years of you know having wedges and you know I'm a I'm a bit deaf in this year on the last Domino tour you had the chance to play with Nick on drums what was that like for you being in the front and being able to turn around and see Nick on the kid yeah well made me immensely proud there's so many

times when I've seen him play from when he sat on my lap you know through till yesterday when you were sitting on my [Music] lap um now you may have noticed up on stage here slashing the drums ladies and gentlemen my little boy Mr Nicholas Collins I mean one of the funniest things Phil would say when he was introducing the band on stage is he said one of the best things about having Nick appear as it brings down the average age of the band considerably it was so cool for for me being in a band

and being in bands the Genesis thing was like you could just tell there was 50 years worth of friendship and love between them you know great memories not only not only to share with my dad on his kind of last tour but also to share with them You know as well it's it's strange to even think about it I mean if you'd have told me 17 18 years ago that he'd have been playing in Genesis or in my band you know come to that but it would have uh I'd have laughed so unlikely the chances

the worst thing that actually happened to me wasn't drum related is I would do this little piano bit with my dad on his solo tour we did you know what I mean which was like a really cute kind of fatherson moment but I was so terrified of playing that piano part because like I'm a drummer I feel comfortable behind the drums with piano I didn't I don't have that and I think I think something must have happened where when they were setting up maybe something was you know somebody pressed a button so all of a

sudden I start and it sounds really messed up do you remember that yeah yeah I do it's [ __ ] broken he I can't play dead can't play it's broken the lower half of the piano was the way it was supposed to be and the other one was like an upright base that was in normal normal tuning and I had to tell my dad I'm like I like in the middle of the the song I'm like I got to stop like I I'm I can't do this yeah well that that was One of the highlights

of the show you know and you know and like he was like a the keyboard's messed up and everybody's like ah you just messed up you're blaming the keyboard I'm like no I swear it was the keyboard like and and that like traumatized me like I had like the rest of the show I was pissed I still have nightmares about it you never gotten it every you no hey he and here Nicholas is in New York where he's visiting daddy with Matthew Lindsay for the first time and he's taken the City by storm they CR

CRS are loving his piano playing yes he does a very good bow the worst thing about having another drama if it's not you is you don't want to be turning around all the time or twitching because they're not doing what you do and I found that Nick had enough of of me doing what I would do and bringing something new to it as well for different songs there's definitely the fills there's a certain Vibe and and approach you have to take to it and just knowing my dad as a person and as a drummer is

is he was so expressive behind the kit he never played really the same thing twice um it was always a feel thing and that's probably the Biggest thing that I've taken from him now as I've gotten older that transition from let's figure out how to play as much as we can around the kit to let's just be musical or something he's passed on to his son Nick it's all about feel and the best drummers never kind of were comfortable doing it they were always trying to do something new when I went to see Genesis and

Nick was back there he did such a great job he was playing it all so well and I was like this is so awesome you just feel like it's the guy's son and he's doing it sometimes things feel very different when you're playing it as opposed to when you're singing with it or when you're listening to it so no I mean I'm so pleased that we did it but there were never never any rough moments there was never any you know doubts it just went ridiculously smoothly it was something that I wouldn't have altered for

the world we all have to grow old if we're lucky you know you got to deal with these physical uh issues let me all right you want to have a seat yeah and Phil for you what's it like to hear all of this music we covered so many albums to revisit all of this Music yeah I mean I'm not genesis's biggest fan you know um there's stuff that I like stuff I'm proud of stuff that I'm less less so and uh sometimes you know it can come be like people throwing bricks at you I mean

I've enjoyed it don't get me wrong I mean I've enjoyed it and it's been an interesting trip down a memory lane some bits may be better than I thought some bits aren't as good as I thought you know when you been doing something for I know I mean I've been playing drums since I was five you know there's going to be dogs you know there's going to be things that you're going to enjoy hearing back and others not so that's it that's everything look you got to have a party that's just so striking to me

how many different iterations of the in in the aight Phil exist on this planet it's kind of funny that his name is Phil Collin because he got the the ill phills you know what I'm saying phills with Phil you know it's just so funny to hear people like interpret it in different ways but I guess for me it would be Like I will do it in my most German voice then all right but it's all about the room mics in that bad boy I think I'll keep that yeah it's a it's a bob break for

lunch those drums tones and groups to this day man it still hits the same way you know it's it's Timeless I hope that he's remembered as the great great Prague innovator that he was it's okay i' I've had a very good Innings as they say and I've done it you know most of the things I think that I I wanted to do first he was the drummer then he was the drummer who sang then the singer what next Phil Collins people have enjoyed it in the main I've got nothing to complain about I got five

great kids I don't want for anything so so you know I'm one of the lucky ones really [Music]