Public Hearing - Vice Speaker V. Anthony Ada - June 27, 2025 8:30am

And good morning. The public hearing conducted by the land committee on land, environment, housing, and agriculture, parks, and infrastructure. It's cold order, and the time is 8:30 a.m. Today's date is Friday, June 27th, 2025. Notice of this hearing was disseminated to all local media outlets on June 20, 2025 with the second notice provided on June 25th, 2025. Notice of the hearing was also made known on the Guam legislaturator's website and the government of Guam public notice portal. This morning, the committee will hold the second public hearing to hear testimony on bill number 32-38 COR introduced

by the committee on rules by request of Imagan Guan, the governor of Guam, in accordance with the organic act of Guam. An act to add an act to authorize the transfer of lot 5173-1- R2 NEW-R7 and lot 5173-1-R2 NEW-6 in the municipality of Tamuning from the Tomorrowland Trust Commission to the heirs of Francisco D. Paris, the original land owner. The first public hearing on this bill was held on March 13, 2025. Before we begin, I would like to go over the general rules of conduct. Individuals testifying shall first be recognized by the chair before speaking

and shall state their name for the recordkeeping purposes. Questions and testimony shall be confined to the substance or nature of the agenda. Personal interference as to the character or motive of any senator or individual testifying is not permitted. The chairperson of the committee may order the removal from the hearing any member of Elysaur and Guhan who fails to observe the property corum pursuant to 38 Guam legislature standing rules. Any violation of this general rule of conduct will result in the removal of any individual from the the hearing as well. We'll now proceed with hearing on

testimony on bill number 32-38 CO. I'd like to call first to the table Mr. Joseph Artero Cameron is the CLTC commissioner. Uh Tony Lamarena Thank you, Senator, for you're giving uh oral testimony. Repeat. We just take a one minute recess as we get everyone to come in so we can just get the panel situated Thank you. And we're back. Uh we like to also call Mr. John Paris, if you can sit, please in the Yeah. So, like with any other uh public hearing, we always recognize the the rose before the thorns. But uh again, welcome

to the Guam Legislaturator's uh public hearing on bill number 32-38 COR. This is again the the second public hearing on this bill. Uh first I would like to uh recognize uh my former colleague Senator Tony Lamarena and also Sen Senator Mary Kamacho Torres. I'd like to recognize my colleagues here at the podium at the dis uh Senator Chris Dwayne my vice chair and also Senator Theres Trelahi. Thank you uh both for joining me today. Uh Mr. McCullum, we'll go ahead and start with you on your testimony uh this morning on uh bill number uh 32-38

COI. Just press the center button there. Thank you. Good morning. State your name uh for the morning. My name is Katherine Flores McCullum. I'm off the Retidian Antiten Families. I have joined so many organizations already on land return. Anyway, I'm writing to express my strong support of bill number 32-38, an act to authorize the transfer of lot 5173-1 R2 new-R7 and lot 5173-1 R2 new- 6 in the municipality of Tamuni and from the Tomorrowland land trust commission to the heirs of Francisco D. Paris, the original land owner, and would like to add that I will

continue to support all future land return. Remembering the pro protests in the 1990s as we gathered around the roundabout in Oka, Teden, Nimitz Hill, Harmon Cliff Line, and Retidian with fellow land owners and many organizations all crying for for the return of our lands. the creation of the Guam Tomorrow Land Trust and the Guam Ancestral Lands Commission because of the commitment of the governors and the legislature then and thankfully up to the present day commitment to return property is ongoing. I feel that many of our properties in the co-first of uh Guam Ancestral Lands Commission

and Chammoral Land Trust and local and federal government must be returned to their original land owners. Once returned, we can exercise our property rights to have the best and highest use of our lands. I also feel That a mechanism should be in place to buy distress properties maybe through Guam Ancestral Lands Commission and uh Guam Chammoro Land Trust to keep our Chammoro Chammoro lands in our hands. I ask that you continue to work with the governor and process in place to ensure our people will see their lands return. I commend you all for your hard

work and commitment to working with the people of Guam, most especially in this effort. Sincerely, thank you for your testimony this morning. Uh we'll go ahead and go with Senator Tony Lamina for your testimony. Thank you, sir. Good morning, Senators. My name is Tony Lamarina. I'd like to acknowledge uh the chairman of the committee, Senator Ada, Senator Dues, and Senator Turli. Um I'm here to testify uh primarily many years ago when I was in the legislature in the 25th Guam legislature I introduced a bill 25179 which would have leased the OK point properties because it

is under the inventory of the moral land trust commission as you all are aware it is probably the most prime commercial property under the inventory of the moral land trust commission at the time I introduced the bill was to lease lease that property for 50 years uh with you know escalation cost or escalations and So forth uh but allow GA to negotiate the lease and also to sell that lease in the bond market at the time in back in 19 200 I think 1998 when I introduced the bill and it actually passed into law it's

still an existing law um at the time the lease value was about a million dollars a year, even more. Uh so therefore, if you leased it for a million dollars a year, 50 million, you could sell that in the bond market for about $35 million. Infrastructure to put water, power, sewer, and uh sidewalks in the Samora Land Trust Lands was about $15,000 at the time. over 2,300 lots would have had full infrastructure on their properties. Obviously, the legislature after I left in their wisdom changed all government of Guam leases to five years. So therefore, there

was no interest in leasing the OK point properties. Uh again I introduced the legislation in mind of how we can best help recipients of this moral land trust commission. Uh many lease holders today are holding on to a piece of paper who are not able even to move into their property due to lack of infrastructure. And so you know that was the reasoning behind uh my piece of legislation actually is currently a law. Now in this bill uh the intent is to correct the wrong in the government. Many years ago when I was serving with

uh the late Senator Angel Santos, he and I had a a very deep conversation and you know we were the big thing at the time was the military taking land. But he also told me one of the biggest thieves of land is the government of Guam. A lot of land that was taken but from private land owners for the purpose of the public use to be used for streets for government facilities such as schools, fire departments and so forth. Land was taken from taken from original land owners with no compensation. No compensation. Teds and land

owners, teds and land owners have been waiting. All the surrounding areas in in the and again the wisdom of the legislature gave land outside of the airport properties back to the original land owners. But those of those individuals whose land lays in the airport property will have not gotten compensated. I'm here because I'm here for equity for all property owners. If we're going to do this piece of legislation, then a commission has to be established. If the governor's intent is to write a wrong is if it's the legislaturator's intent to write a wrong, then we

need to write the wrong completely. A commission needs to be established. Identify all those land owners who have yet to receive any form of compensation. land that was used for public benefit like I said schools, roadways, fire departments or whatever whatever public use that were these these heirs because the obviously the original land orders have since passed but their heirs need to also be compensated for the taking of their lands. And that's why I'm here. I'm here to to voice my concern that we're only doing one one piece of property. That's why I'm saying this

bill should be amended. If the intent is of the governor and this body, this legislature is to really bring justice to all the land owners, then this bill needs to be amended to to initiate a commission that will identify all those properties and who those heirs who have not yet been compensated and there needs to be something done. We did it with uh uh war claims, right? We did it with war claims. We can do it with this. So, don't stop here just to to uh give back to the Paris family because there are a

lot of other landowners still waiting who have actually waiting longer. And that's where we need to work because if you're just going to pass this without including everybody else, you're doing an injustice to everybody else. So do the right thing. Start a commission, implement a commission through this legislation and identify those property owners and their heirs and let's do the right thing that this if that's the intent if that's the intent of the governor in in introducing this bill, then let's do the right thing. Thank you, Senator. Uh Mr. Greo, will you be providing testimony

as well? I have you here as oral or testimony? Yeah, you can please have a seat up here. Mr. Craon, you can uh Mr. Cameron, you can go ahead and uh provide your testimony. Thank you. Buenossepho Cameron Tanoru, also known as the Chammorand Trust Commission. I would like to read a letter to you that was signed by the chairwoman of the Chor Land Trust Commission, Arlene P. Bdalia. Dear Vice Speaker, Atta, this is in reference to testimony on bill 3238, Committee on rules. The current Chamora Land Trust Commission Board of Commissioners has not yet discussed

bill 3238 committee on rules. However, this bill will be included on the agenda for the board's meeting scheduled for July 17, 2025. Once a decision is made, a formal testimony will be submitted. Sinceri Arllin P. Bdalu dated June 25th, 2025. [Music] meeting. I have in front of me a document a instrument document from the government of Guam uh under the department of land management. Um that document is 544237 and it was dated April 1996 the date 16 and this was signed off under the territory of Guam Department of Land Management recordation department of land management

claim of interest. This instrument is made on this 16th day of April of 1996 by Frank D. Paris whose mailing address is PO Box F AIA Guam 96910. The recital whereas former governor of Guam Carlton Skinner was appointed in August of 1949 By President Truman as the first civilian governor of Guam. Whereas former governor of Guam, Carlton Skinner and other government of Guam representatives immediately set out to convert the naval government to a civilian government. Whereas immediately after the passage of the Organic Act of 1950, Governor Skinner quickly recognized that Guam had a serious problem

of providing civilian medical care and hospital services for the civilian population and sought real property for the specific purpose of developing a hospital. Whereas Governor Skinner and other government of Guam representatives identified lot number 5173-1 place of Oka Point Municipality of Dedu as property specifically conducive for the use of a hospital development and began negotiations with the registered owner to acquire the property for development of a hospital facility. Whereas the registered owner of lot number 5173-1 place of Oka Point, Municipality of Dedo was identified as Frank D. Paris who conveyed said property to the government

of Guam with a specific understanding and I will repeat that with the specific understanding and intent the property would be used as a hospital facility. Now therefore considering the recital above Mr. Frank D. Paris states and declares the following number one Property description lot number 5173-1 place of Oka Point Municipality of Dedo commonly referred to as the old Guammore hospital property containing an area of plus or minus 46,953.5 acres. Number two, supportive claim. This claim of interest is supported by true copy of July 19, 1989, a sworn affidavit of Governor Carlton Skinner, a true copy

of which attached here to as quote unquote exhibit A, and incorporated herein by reference, comma, together with various equitable and legal principles, comma, including rights of future interests in real property and abandonment of the property for the specific use of a facility hospital facility. Number three, this claim of interest shall be binding upon the heirs and administrators of the individuals referenced above. Signed Frank D. Paris and notary public Rachel M. Ugen dated on the 16th of April 1996. Uh, I'm sorry. Senator, do you have a copy of this? Okay. Thank you. Recorded as instrument number

544237. The state of California, City and county of San Francisco affidavit. I, Carlton Skinner, being first duly sworn, deposed in 1949 by President Truman as the first civilian governor of Guam. At that time, Guam was administered by the naval department and I was responsible for the naval government of Guam. I took the oath of office in Aana in September of 1949 and immediately set about converting the naval government to a civilian government. With the passage of Congress and of the Organic Act of 1950, the island became a territory of the United States. New paragraph. I

quickly realized that Guam had a serious problem of providing civilian medical care and hospital services for the civilian population. Kama then about 35,000 persons. The naval government after World War II had created an entity called Guam Memorial Hospital. In reality, this barely existed. It was a group of temporary butler buildings and quanet huts contiguous to and administered as part of the naval hospital. These temporary buildings rusting, leaking and with no air conditioning were only hospital wards. The essential facilities were all part of the naval government. The operating rooms, pharmacy, Laundry, morg, power plant, kitchens, messole,

and patient feeding were all part of the naval hospital. Period. New paragraph. The Navy had plans for building a new naval hospital in its present location overlooking Aana Bay and intended to tear down the temporary dilapidated buildings in use. Page two. I considered asking to have these transferred to the civilian government, but did not for two reasons. The appalling state of repair and the totally uneconomic prospect of making these buildings into a viable hospital. New paragraph. While in Washington in November or December of 1949, comma, seeking typhoon relief after a devastating typhoon, I called on

the chief of the Navy's Bureau of Medicine and Surgery and proposed the joint government of Guam Navy use of the naval the new Naval Hospital. Then getting ready to be constructed. I offered to pay for all hospital services to the civilian population or in the alternative To employ doctors and nurses and others necessary to carry our share of the joint hospital service. The admiral said that would be impossible. He could not permit civilian government employees to work in a naval hospital and he was unwilling to arrange for a joint use. Kama reimbured by the governor

of Guam. In frustration, I asked if we could employ cleaners and drivers and he answered quote unquote absolutely not. New paragraph. About this time, comma, the Navy and Guam built a chainlink wire fence between the temporary naval hospital buildings and the buildings used as wards for the civilian population and called euphemisticallywor hospital. It became clear to me and my colleagues in the new civilian government that we would have to build our own hospital. New paragraph. In order to include this in the budget, I needed a study of best location, optimum use, comma, facilities needed, comma,

etc. We had no money for such a study in the budget which interior had prepared before I was even appointed. To solve this problem, we built a temporary cockpit on Basel de Susana and held page three week long 10-hour a day fights with the government taking a cut on all bets. This provided us with $25,000 which we used to hire a Honolulu architect who had designed several hospitals in Hawaii including Queens and St. Francis. The architect did a workmanlike job of determining facilities needed and designing them. New paragraph. One of the most critical elements was

the location. It had to be accessible from then major centers of population with reasonable access for roads and utilities. A location in order was considered along with several others. However, since the Navy hospital was to be located in a preferred site overlooking the ocean, we concluded that it would be wrong to bury the civilian hospital in the interior. The civilian patients were also entitled to an attractive location with beautiful views, cooling tradewinds, etc. I asked Manuel Guerrero, then the assistant director of land management, to find such a site. He came up with the location of

S Pun Point, as we know it today as Oka Point. I asked him to negotiate for it with the landowner who turned out to be Frank Paris. New paragraph. At about this time, the US Army was winding down its activities in Guam and on Sipen and Tinan. Its commanding officer, Brihadair General Dansforth, advised me that he would be leaving about $2 million worth of construction equipment in Saipan and in Tinan and asked if the governor of Guam could use it. We happily accepted this offer of transfer of surplus construction equipment which the army did not

want to ship anywhere else. We felt we could use it in the in construction of the site. Page four. for the new hospital as well as in many other construction work projects. Manuel Guerrero was well aware of this bonanza of surplus equipment. I recall that in advising me of the results of his negotiation with Frank Paris for the hospital land, he was proud of getting it for a lower price because the government could trade or pay with construction equipment. I repeat, he was proud of getting it for a lower price because the government could trade

or pay with construction equipment. I do not recall the exact amount of equipment, but do recall that equipment transferred to Mr. Paris was part of the deal. I repeat, I do not recall the exact amount of equipment, but do recall the equipment transferred to Mr. Paris was part of the deal period. New paragraph about two months after the army executed the government the documents transferring the equipment to the government of Guam. About 2 months after the army executed the documents transferring the equipment to the government of Guam, the Navy learned about it. Probably from the

shipping company or barge owner we had contracted with to bring the equipment to Guam. The Navy then exercises superior rights under the surplus property regulations to take over the construction equipment. Transfers between units of department of defense had a higher priority than other departments of the federal, state or territorial governments and so we lost it. In the meantime, however, the land had been bought from Mr. Paris with a valid contract. The government of Guam had no other construction equipment it could transfer to him. Consequently, no transfer of construction equipment was ever made to Mr. Paris.

Consequently, no transfer of construction equipment was ever made to Mr. Paris. New paragraph. The commitment to transfer the equipment would have been made by director of public works Holbrook and Manuel Guerrero with my approval. Subscribe this 19th day of July 1989 at San Francisco, California. Subscribe and sworn to before me the 19th day of July Carlton Skinner, former governor of Guam. I would like to place this for record. Mr. Chairman, thank you, Mr. Cameron. Mr. Greo, would you like to prevent uh present your testimony? Uh before I give my uh oral testimony, I would like

to yield to this gentleman to my right. He's a direct descendant of Francisco D. Paris. That he'll be speaking. He'll be speaking after you. Yes. No, after you. You can go ahead and you go you can go ahead and uh proceed. My name is Earl Gerido. I come here on my own personal capacity to testify in favor of bill 32-38. Um for the record, I am related to Frank D. Paris. He's my mother's first cousin. So his heirs are my second cousin. Okay. Now, uh I do, like I said, I do stand in favor of

this land transfer back to the original owners, which is the Paris family prior to the government taking control of it. Okay. The terms and condition as specified earlier by uh the uh previous speaker was uh terms and conditions. Okay. The terms and conditions were not fully met in the original transaction. And as he had pointed out, there was construction equipment that was supposed to transfer hands from from the federal government to the Paris family as part of the land swap or exchange. The original intent of the transfer was to provide a space or property for

Guam to build its own hospital. That was achieved initially but uh through time and through decades it fell apart and it ended up being abandoned. If you if you check all the uh evidence that were was presented by Mr. Cameron uh there are revisionary rights that were not properly fulfilled and uh that of course is uh the uh construction equipment. They were given a to a token amount of uh I believe maybe $50,000 back then but uh that was just part of the terms and condition. Uh laws regarding property transfer, land use and government obligation,

they vary widely. Uh in this case uh we're leaving it up to your esteemed body to make that determination whether the transfer can be executed. Uh and since you are the lawmakers, you are the people that can make it happen. You are the movers, the ground shakers. Uh the previous speaker, Mr. Cameron had uh offered evidence of non-compliance through written testimony from the former uh uh governor of Guam. I believe he said Governor Skinner That uh not all the terms of the uh land transfer were were fulfilled. If it's determined that the government is in

breach of the property transfer terms, the legal remedies might include negotiation attempting to negot negotiate a return of the property which I am in support of. Uh hopefully we do not have to go into litigation. Uh also community engagement which is reclaiming the property is challenging. Consider connecting the community organizations or residents who share an interest. And in conclusion, recovering the property given to the government can be complicated and often requires navigating legal bureaucracies and community dynamics. Each case will depend significantly on the specific document, local laws, and circumstances surrounding the original transfer and current

status of the property. working with legal council, engaging with local government can be critical steps in addressing the issues effectively. And uh it's common knowledge that to build a fire, you must have a spark. And although this does not address all the uh the uh properties that should require your attention to remediate and Rectify. Like I said, you start a fire with a single spark and that becomes your fire. So, let's not let's not please let's not bog this down by having to incorporate everything all in one time in a big giant bill or resolution.

I I think we should handle it one step at a time. And this is a good beginning step. I thank you. And uh let let me readress myself because I I forgot to do it. Thank you, Mr. Vice Speaker, Senator Da, Senator Tallay, and Senator Barrett for uh being so attentive to the cost. Sus. Thank you, Mr. Gerredo. also like to recognize my colleague, Senator Chris Barnett, for being here today. Thank you. And also the presence of uh the chairwoman of the Chimorland Trust Commission, Miss uh Bdalio. Thank you for being here, ma'am. And I

do understand that you will not be uh offering any uh oral testimony that you're just here for. Thank you. Uh Mr. Paris, we'll go ahead and uh continue with your testimony, sir. Good morning. I am John Perez, the uh one of the sons of the late Francisca D Paris and I am here to testify in favor of bill 3238 co as a representative of the family of Francisc Paris. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Vice Speaker, members of the legislature, distinguished guests, and the people of Guam, thank you for the opportunity to further expand our views on bill

3238 CO. In addition to my written testimony submitted March 12th, 2025, The family of the late Franciscy Paris consider it necessary to offer historic occurrences relative to the sale of Hospital Point to the government of Guam in brief and in a chronological order. On May 8, 1929, the Naval Government of Guam, Department of Records and Accounts, issued certificate of title number 530-12464 and guarantee claim number 3236 to certify that Atkins Grove, Guam is the owner of an estate in fee simple of lot 5173 and according to executive order number 53. 3. On June 7, 1933,

Atkins Grove sold lot 5173 to Francisco D. Paris. The transaction was signed by both the examiner of title and the registar of land on July 5, 1933. The sale transaction was documented as quote sale transfer alien and convert onto Francisco D. Perez under document number 012797. Certificate of title number 570 was issued in the name of Francisco D. Paris on July 5th, 1933. On September of 1951, Francisc Paris created the company Frank D. Paris and Brothers. During this period, Mr. Paris began the initial stages of planning and developing Glam's first subdivision, Parisville, on lot 5173.

On October 29, 1951, a deed transferred a part or portion of lot number 5173 from Francisco Paris to the government of Guam. This deed was recorded October 31, 1951 under document number 23817 to include map number LM-8. The sale price was in the amount of 51,914.99 for 173,059 square meters plus or mass approximately 42.76 acres of land area at 30 cents per square meter plus construction equipment that was to be provided by the government of Guam to Francisco Paris. Upon learning of the pending transaction of construction equipment executed by the army, the Navy then exercised

its superior rights under surplus property regulations to take over the construction equipment. The construction equipment was never received by Franciscad Paris. It was the intent of Franciscad Paris to use the construction equipment to facilitate the development of Parisville. with this newly formed company frank pairs and brothers on October 29 through 31 1951 in addition to the 42.76 plus or minus acres of land 36 acres was gifted by Francisco Paris as ement for the road to the hospital this was approximately 14,765 square meters of land area a road width of 100 ft as the rightway for

the hospital and the people of Guam. On July 19, 1989, Governor Carlton Skinner provided an affidavit dated July 19, 1989 in support of the land transaction to include construction equipment to be exchanged with Franciscation of a greatly reduced purchase price for the land approximately 42.76 acres. On April 16, 1996, Francisco Paris filed a claim of interest on local point. The Carlton Skinner affidavit was attached as exhibit A to the filed claim of interest. On May 21, 1996, Senator Angel LG Santis introduced bill 625-23. One of the intents of the bill was to return one-third of

the OK point property, approximately 16.08 acres to Frank D. Paris. This bill was co-sponsored by Senators Ted Nelson, Mark Charurs, Jose Augustine, Antonio Pinko, and John Ugan. The legislature voted to pass bill 625-23. It was then forwarded to the executive branch and was subsequently vetoed by acting governor Meline Bordalia. In referencing the bill, page section section 5A page 7 section 5A one specifically delineates a location of the portion of Oka Point to be granted to Frankie Parrots. Onethird of the property 16.0 0 acres located on the western most portion of the property extending eastward. Also

referencing 60 65-23 page 8 section 5 E passing of title. This section states that title to a lot shall vest in fe simple absolute in parrots in parentheses Frankie Parrots. Some excers of the bill include page 2 to three. He further indicated his willingness to be patient when circumstances intervene which delayed payment. Seven on the strength of its representation in its agreement with Mr. Paris. The government of Guam took possession of the property and established the Guam Memorial Hospital on said property. However, the government of Guam only paid a small percentage of the agreed upon

price for the property. To this day, although Mr. Paris and his family have worked diligently with the government of Guam and its various agencies and bodies, compensation for the acquisition of the property was not paid as promised. Eight, notwithstanding the delay in payment, Mr. and Mrs. affairs believing in the good faith of the government of Guam continue to pursue their dream that the people of Guam receive benefit from the property as a medical facility. After the transfer of the hospital point property to the government of Guam, Mr. Paris realized that existing access route to the

hospital might not always be adequate to meet as yet unforeseeable needs. Acting on this foresight, Mr. Paris donated in perpetuity an additional 100 ft wide road easement across his property to ensure that access to the hospital would not be difficult when the need arose. Despite the failure of government to provide the compensation due to them under the agreement with him, Mr. and Mrs. Paris continue to and continues to provide other benefits to the people of Guam by donations and otherwise. 10. This abandonment frustrated the intent of the agreement which induced Mr. and Mrs. Ferris to

transfer the property at substantially less than its fair market value to exercise forbearance in pressing for the need upon compensation. Page four. The government section 12. the failure of the government of Guam to complete payment to Mr. and Mrs. Paris for the acquisition of Hospital Point property and the abandonment of the old Guam Memorial Hospital and the sessation of the use of the property for its intended purpose have given rise to equitable and legal claims in Mr. and Mrs. repairs and their errors assigns successors and potential clouds on the title to the property. 13B legislative

policy and intent. And if I may, I would like to uh just mention a couple of points because the the entirety of that section is is worth noting. Um, one where land is purchased for the specific use by government and government fails or ceases to use the property acquired for the purpose for which it was acquired. Such land should be returned to those who owned it. Section two, government of Blam has taken the position that lands acquired from private persons should be Ultimately returned upon the failure to so use the property or the cessation of

its use for the specific purposes. Three, government has the obligation to rectify past injustices resulting from its conduct and not to take refuge in legal technicalities. On June 12th, 1996, the Pacific Daily News reported the passing of Bill 625-23. On July 24, 1996, in further support of the land purchase terms, Governor Carlton Skinner addressed the managing editor, Pacific Daily News, Mr. Joseph Natne, in the letter dated July 24, 1996. In this letter to Mr. Joseph Natne, Governor Carlton Skinner reiterated two salient points related to the Guam Memorial Hospital transaction. These two points were in verbatim

from the letter. Quote, first gov Guam prevailed on Frank Paris to sell the land specifically for a hospital site. Second, the surplus construction equipment of value greatly in excess of the cash payment was an integral part of the purchase price which could not be delivered because of the Navy preeemption. Close quote. On July 24, 2015, Frank D. Perez Jr. filed an Oka Point claim of interest. On July 9, 2020, Gregory D. Paris filed an Okapoint claim of interest. On January 17, 2025, the committee of rules by request of Magahagan Guan, the governor of Guam, Lulon

Guerrero, in accordance with the organic act of Guam, introduce bill 3238. A public was then scheduled and conducted on March 13, 2025. We the family of the late Francisca D. Paris continue to believe that the original land transaction without the transfer of construction equipment to Frank D. Perez is a land transaction unfulfilled and appreciate bill number 3238 C efforts to remedy the transaction to fulfillment. I thank you. Uh thank you Mr. Paris for your testimony. Uh we'll call on Mr. David Herrera who will be uh providing a testimony. Are you going to oral or just

submitting your written? Yes, Mr. Paris, you can just remain seated and then uh we'll also call um Senator Torres, you'll uh follow after Mr. Herrera, please. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Herrera with your testimony. You can come forward, Senator. Buy speaker. [Music] Punis donusi. Good morning honor honorable vice chairman Tony Adan to all the honorable senators who are present today. I am truly humbled by the opportunity to exercise our freedom of speech, but more importantly to emphasize the need to protect the resources and assets of the Chamor Land Trust Commission. I am here before the

body today as one of the few individuals blessed with the grace of God to be a part of the Nashon Chamora and other organizations in the community advocating for the rights of our grassroots who have sacrificed and fought for the implementation and other amendments of the Hammer Land Trust Act. Bill 3238 has been introduced to authorize to transfer a portion of lot 5173 in Tamuning from the Chammoral Land Trust Commission. the granter that sold the property on October 29, 1951 for 51,914 and.99 as documented and recorded in the Department of Land Management instrument number 23817

years ago. Bill 3238 justifies transferring the land to the grantor. And here's as stated by the bill by stating that the government of Guam may not be the best steward of this property as lands continue to languish while in its inventory. As a former commissioner of the Chimorland Trust Commission during the past three years, I can respectfully say prior to my departure, the COOTC team collectively resume awarding leases to applicants who had been waiting in line for the past 30 years. This was made possible by the diligent work that were produced by the honorable senators

of the 37 legislature under the leadership of uh speaker attorney Lahi and supported by the appropriations committee chairman senator Joseen Austinine. Kudos and Biba to the 37 for introducing the seven key bills that were the primary components that today in 2025 allows the COTC to legally move forward and start ratifying 99-year leases over A decade of legal challenges that were triggered by the Baraga Heights fiasco. However, the situation also reflects on the quality and effectiveness of the prior appointments of acting administrative directors over the past 20 years, which had a turnover rate of about one

appointed director every two years. There was no continuity resulting in low employee morale, low productivity and exploitation of the COTC system. About bill 3228, it is important to clarify that the original registered land owner of this property based on the records of the Spanish record log book was Mr. Lorenzo Manalisa Leon Guerrero that was recorded back in 1929 while the granter recorded in October 29, 1951 is documented as the previous land owner. Furthermore, the bill outlines how property is acquired by the government of Guam. Yet, it neglects to specifi specify how the property in question

was obtained. The registered original land owner, S. Senor Lorenzo Manilisai Guerrero sold lot 5173 to Atkins Crow and Company for $3,700 after which Atkins Crow and Company sold the property to Senor Tun Francisco Dwen Paris for $555. Subsequently, a portion of lot 5173 was sold to the government of Guam for $51,914.99 after which the government transferred administrative jurisdiction to the Chammorand Trust Commission. The bill intends to transfer the property to the hairs of the grtor because quote the bill stated that because the government of Guam allegedly does not know what to do with the property

and has no use for it. However, I must remind the committee that the land leasing programs of the Chimur Land Trust Commission are meant to address the unjust taking of the property by the United States government. Removing this property from the COTC would deny several hundred families of the opportunity to have homes with full infrastructure already installed or deny about 30,000 individuals of our grassroots a funding source to pay for the installation of infrastructure on their lease properties. In closing, I respectfully oppose bill 32 3238 because it omits relevant factual informations. I firmly believe that

if the October 29, 1951 contract was breached by the government, the case should have been addressed in a court of law before the six-year statute of limitation expired and not in the Guam legislature or in Adeloop. Additionally, how is it that There is no protest to return the parses that the naftan manata and the sag couturan samor is located on? We must end the practice of treating the cootc inventory like a slush fund or what our magahaga for the national chamoru senora deinata categorized as the legislaturator's piggy bank as noted during our first public hearing.

in March of 2025. Dona susi. Thank you, Mr. Herrera, for your testimony. Sir, you'll be providing testimony. Uh, oral testimony. No. Will you be Will you be providing testimony? Yes. Yes. Have a seat and you can provide your testimony. Just state your name for the record. Yes. Okay. Senator Senator, you can go ahead and Yeah. Hide day. Members of the committee on rules and vicea, senators joinus, Turlahi, and Barnett. Manuan manu. My name is Mary Kamato Torres and I was a former senator in the 33rd 36 Guam legislature and I am a relative of the

Francisco D. Paris family. My mother Lordis Paris Kamacho is the lone surviving sibling of Mr. Paris and our family homes are located near to each other. I appear today in favor of the intent of bill number 32-38 COR. This bill will undoubtedly spark a mix of emotions and debate about what is ethical, what is just, and what is in the best interest of the greater public good. What I hope will come out of this entire process is a better understanding of the history of the land transaction. a desire to honor the good faith intentions of

Frank Paris and Governor Skinner in the first place and a solution to put closure to a claim of interest by the Paris family. It's extraordinary by today's standards to conceive of such a land transaction. Imagine the principle behind giving up a large track of land over 42 acres at below value for the sake of a civilian hospital and an additional uh acreage was also Given by Mr. Paris for the the road and easement and it was gifted. I believe this was post World War II. my mother Lordis would explain when our people were looking to

rise from the ashes almost literally. I deduced from the recounts of bygone days from my mother that Uncle Frank was an exemplary leader. He was at the forefront of helping to rebuild Guam, an island that he and many envisioned would be sustained by an empowered community, a strong church, and a budding economy. He was generous, my mom would tell me, but strict. And as the older brother, he was like a father figure, not only to his immediate family, but to his extended family. He prioritized higher education and ensured that his siblings completed their chores. Most

importantly, they completed it correctly. When this bill was first introd in introduced, I was worried about the potential political tussle between the proponents of a new hospital at Oka Point and the defenders of the CLTC and how that would would affect the family's focus on continuing their father's journey to justice. And that's why I'm here today to support my my family Testimony that was offered by John and others. uh Mr. Cameron show that the discussion of the failure to compensate has been open for decades. The greater public good of a civilian hospital is indisputable and

in 1951 it was novel much so that both my parents started out in the medical profession. My mother, I recall, walked to and from GH every single day where she worked in the laboratory at a point to when they were doing cancer research. You know, really helping our local people for the first time. But the old GH hospital has been demolished for nearly 30 years and the site is now used primarily for a staging ground for green waste. and who knows what else happens behind the the confines of the jungle. One can argue that the

greater public benefit as specifically intended in 1951 has not been applicable for an unreasonably long time. At least 30 years since that hospital's been gone. Close to 20 years ago, another legislative body debated this issue of just compensation in the form of bill 625-23, as John mentioned in his chronology, Which passed but was ultimately vetoed by the acting governor at the time. But as I thought about that, it was serendipitous, serendipitously authored by a senator whose advocacy for our Chammoral people is legendary, said Angel Santos. I want to remind the body that it it's been

70 years since the recording of a deed transferring a portion of lot number 5173 from Francisco D. Paris to the government of Guam. I suggest that the restitution of the real estate by the government of government government of Guam is in order. We can honor the good faith intention of an upright Chammoro. A Chammoro man who agreed to give up prime property to the first civilian governor so our people can have the dignity of modern medical care. Mr. Paris, our uncle Frank, was not made whole. This has been repeated by his sister. She remembers firsthand.

And many of us feel that the government took advantage of Uncle Frank's humility and his civility over the past 70 years by not properly compensating him and further by not using the acquired property for Its intended purposes for the past 30 years. Senators, it's a good time. It's a good time to do justice to the leaders of our greatest generation. We're coming upon July, the one month that we highlight our greatest generation, their sacrifices and their contributions. But it's a good time now, especially when there are still a few around who can witness your good

actions. And with that, I express sincere mentee and my desire that uh that you should once and for all put this to bed while there's still some of us who were there, some of us meeting our people who were there and can see some segments of justice finally come to fruition. Situ. Thank you, Senator. Mr. Benvente, you'll be providing your testimony. Turn on your your microphone. That's it. My name speaker you know freely I will talk in both language so everybody could understand. Uh I was part of the Chamora nation. And uh we we were

put down laid down by our own people until it passed. That's when everybody got to understand that some more nations plight and so forth down the line for the people. For the people, not just political agendas, not uh not uh family agendas and so forth down the line. It is for the people like President Trump, America comes first. My my version is Guam come first, not political. Now the the Chammor land trust I I correct me if I'm wrong is under the the pre uh Chammorand trust listing and right there and then there's a lot

of people has has uh signed up for the Chammorand trust in the beginning there were seven death already up to now that uh they haven't received and the shortcut bully comes further, political comes further and so forth down the line. That's not That's not right for a member of the Chamor nation to to to see that thing happen. Injustice is what you know I I'm looking at and I'm you know all of you I know them personally do what's right. You know, our family owns the the runway, part of the runway in Tizan. What happened

to that? The legislature, like the Chammoral Land Trust, said they have the funds to pay off the claims, but they turned around and told me that it was up to the governor and to the legislature. What happened to that? But this thing this issue came up automatically one person is interested. We are interested. We the people of Guam are interested in justice. My goodness. Yes. I ran for a senator. I was number 16. Lucky thing I didn't I didn't win for a senator. It's been there before the people. Injustices is wrong. We put our kids

in school for for the truth and when they came out to reality they tell them hey don't do that and Don't say that and then the kid will say oh that's wrong well this is the way it is in life is that right no you know in your hearts senators and u vice speaker in your heart put this equally inside for the people not for one agenda for one for one person interest. I have an interest in my island as as far as I know. If nobody claims this island, I claim this island my own.

Not as an individual uh uh like uh some some people today. But I think they talk about they talk about reality. This is reality I'm talking about. And I look at you guys together. plan interest political interest has got to get out from political because it's the people's interest first. That's that's my agenda. That's my heart. I'm compassionate with my people, my land really. That's we got get together here for one for one individual to claim back what is he or they sold and we didn't sell our land in Tan. Remember that senators remember that.

And now there's still no compensation. It's so embarrassing that you know we went to school to learn the right thing. went to high school, we went to college and doing the wrong thing, you know, it's wrong. Do it together as one. Do it for teen also. Do it for uh Captain Collins uh uh uh land down there at Runo. Do it for the do it for for our people, not for just one agenda. My the parish too is my part of my family and if far distance family but it's still my family whether whether I

I disagree it disagree with it or not and this is coming from my heart and you know I hope you guys realize what I'm trying to Hey, it is for all the people of Guam that deserve compensation. All the people of Guam, not just one. Cuz I'll be on top of you guys in parties and in campaign. Believe me, I'm I'm retired already, so nobody pays me what to say up here. God bless it. God bless Guam Mari. Thank you, Mr. Benovvene, for your testimony. We'll go ahead and open up the the U. Sure, Mr.

Celestial. Yeah, vice senators. Robert Namolic Celestio. I don't have no dog in the fight. Uh I just want to testify from my heart. I want to defend the Chammoral Land Trust because it's a program for the people that don't have property and there's a whole bunch of them on the list. Growing up, I've always heard about the Oka Point being uh which could donated for many many years growing up that it was donated for a hospital and that was the main reason that I believe for many many years our government and people really wanted to

see a hospital there in OKA point even myself. And then all of a sudden I I find these documents stating that the land was sold to government of Guam for 51,000 and so much you know so much more. So I got interested to find out that how can you give back property that Was sold. So more information came in you know and then I read I'm not read but I heard the testimony of Mr. Paris saying that there was a promise that was reneged, but it was reneged by the federal government and that promise wasn't

in the contract when Mr. Paris sold the land to government of Guam. So there's certain issues here that either has to go to the ancestral lands or to the AG. If you're going to pass this, then it makes a lot of sense for all these folks, people from Tezen, Retidian, uh, Kathy McCulla, all these properties need to be addressed. You can't have an issue like this and not say it's not favoritism because, you know, it really looks like it. I have nothing against the Paris family. I don't even know them. But I do know that

the Chammoral Land Trust owns the property for the government and that property should go to the people on the list. And so that's why I'm testifying today because if those documents are not true, then yes, they have an issue. The Parises have a claim. But what I've read is that nothing in the contract that Mr. Paris sold the property to government in Guam even though it was promised from Mr. Guerrero, Mr. Bullbrook and and said We're going to give you all these equipment you know from Saipanian back to Guam. The equipment came to Guam. Yes.

However, when the higher echelon decided no, we're not going to do that. And then find out that Mr. Paris sold the property then that promise was reneged. But it wasn't the government of Guam nor Mr. Paris according to what the document I read from uh Captain uh Skinner. So me as a individual living on Guam, you know, there's other issues that are not addressed today. Why all of a sudden do you want to give Oka Point up? Is it because of an issue that they want to build a hospital over Mingilo? that if this issue

is gone, the governor will have, you know, the opportunity to build a hospital McNel because now the issue of Oka Point is is uh has disappeared. This is a real big issue for me. When I sit back at home and I watch all the political moves that's going on is like a chessboard. Who are the pawns? weird the pawns, but the pawns sometimes when you get to the top becomes a queen. So that's my analogy is that I really respect people to get their property back, but do it in a way where it's equitable for

everybody, not for just one. And I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I if I sold my property to the government and then many many years later my grandchildren come and say, "Hey, I want My grandfather's property." Because, you know, there was a promise, but it wasn't in the contract. That's what we're doing here today. And so, I hope and pray that you senators make a decision when you come to vote. you know, either amend it or like Sabrina Solace, just throw it away, you know, because it's the right thing to do. It's

the entire island is watching you guys, you know, and whoever's running for higher office, people are watching this. The voters are watching this. I'm watching it. is because there's more families who need property and the Tomorrowland Land Trust is there for them. And so I hope and pray that being not inside or within Tomorrowland Trust, I'm just an individual that really would like to to see what is right done, you know, because a lot of issues are not brought up here. The political issues, you know, I mean, I'd like to see a hospital. It said

that this was given for the people of Guam to build a hospital. Why haven't they build a hospital point? They have the money today. Why don't they start it up? Why do why build a hospital in Miguel when there's so much controversy? I don't understand that part. Our people are suffering. Even with my issue with the downwinders, our people are suffering. They're dying. They can't come up here at 8:30 in the morning. You know, I I want to thank uh Senator uh Dwayneas because he has, you know, when he has a public hearing, he's scheduled

up here, he has it from 4:00 to 8:00 where people is available to come to the to this floor and testify. A lot of people can't come at 8:30 in the morning because they're at work, they're at school, they want to testify, but they can't. And then the excuse is they could write their own, you know, testimony and send it in. A lot of people won't do that. But I want to thank I want to thank the Lord because he's given me enough strength to come here because you know you know it's not your problem

but it is our problem because it's a promise that was given to build a hospital over there and then now I see in the outside that there's a manipulation where you get rid of this land so you could have more weight to build a hospital in McGillo which is wrong you know I mean seeing it from my eyes and not only that you're taking property from Chammoral Lantress that other people deserve it nothing against the Paris's family it's just that what I read it is just you know evidence it's facts he sold it belongs to

the government of Guam to my understanding susi Thank you Mr. Celestial for your testimony. I'll go ahead and open up the uh the panel to my colleagues here and I'll start off with the vice chair, Senator Duinzi, Vice Speaker Ada. And um so it's uh as always and even in the prior hearing, I disclosed that I'm related to the Paris family. So I'll go more extensive on that disclosure. In the 37th Guam Legislature, I listened to deliberations on not only in public hearing but on the floor for the compensation for Luis Duenes, who is my

first cousin uh that legislation that was introduced and sponsored by Senator Kata and also uh carried forward by the former speaker uh Tahi. And I rose on the floor uh to recuse myself from voting. However, I participated in the process as a senator because that is our job. I'm doing the same thing today. Like I said, Luis Duenz, uh Louise um father was my father's the both late uh father's brother, Ricardo Kumacho Dues. In this instance, I am the first cousin of the Paris family as well. My father Ricardo Kumachu Dwayne is the sis the

brother of Carmen uh Kumachu Perez and so that of course makes us first cousin uh married Tonko Frank as well. Now the reason why I put all that out there is to further go forward and say that I voted in favor of the bill that contemplated the hospital in Epal Point. The Paris family, as they put on the record, always honored the wishes of their father, the late, and I will say great, Francisco Paris, because that was the intention of the property. This bill is introduced as bill 3238 COR by the committee on rules by

request of Imagan Guan, the governor of Guam in accordance with the organic act of Guam. There are no senators right now that are sponsors of this bill. This bill is being handled by the committee on rules as submitted to the legislature by the governor of Guam. So, I will continue to listen to deliberations as is my job as a senator and listen to the back and forth and then I will go forward uh should this bill reach the floor and ask the body what should my position be in terms of voting or not voting on

the bill. Uh I will comment that um you know I think the Paris family has put a very compelling testimony forward and there are other compelling testimonies that have been provided today in terms of how to treat this entire situation as a corpus. I will also disclose that I am uh the son of Jose I mean the the grandson of Jose Kru Duane. So I share with uh Mr. Benventi the situation of The Teds and property we all do even the Paris family has that same situation whereby there's uh large parcels of land that are

not returnable uh to the family for the airport deemed because of the contiguous property to the runway and of course uh what aircraft are required to have in terms of clearances. So we also have sat by while other properties have been returned uh to families but we are in the same boat with you uh senote Benventi that uh we are part of the displaced individuals who are not eligible uh for the return of properties uh of intiden so that's my full disclosure uh and and like I said uh but I believe it is still my

duty and my responsibility uh particularly as the vice chair of this committee to listen to the disposition position and then leave it to the body in terms of what my uh final outcome will be in terms of deliberations on this legislation. I will mention as well as other testimonies have come forward, other senators have had this situation not just with the Paris family but with other familial situations whereby legislation of interest whether it be property or monetary compensation are contemplated. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I join you as your vice chair to once again uh

do my duty to listen to public hearings and deliberation on this matter. Thank you. Uh vice chair Senator Chilahi, you're recognized. Madam Susi, Thank you all for your testimony and I appreciate the um situation that we are in very much. Um it's uh I tend to agree that while we are there may be justice that we need to resolve for one family there is so many other issues that we need to resolve uh relative to land to bring justice and I don't want to create an injustice by seemingly you know um uh fulfilling something else.

So, but I do believe that the situation can be resolved. I think so. I think if there was in any other transaction with the government, the government failed to do something, then they should be made to do something, right? And in this case, I mean, so that's why I have some questions. But I I also note that for example when the ancestral lands or the legislature tried to remedy the teas properties by giving other properties right as compensation they were prohibited from doing that because that was a breach of the trust and this is very

important to me. It's like we've created by law beneficiaries that we are supposed to act on their behalf and um because of great injustice, massive land takings by the federal government. Involuntary, That's a big difference for me. It's involuntary land takings. They were um but the court prohibited the legislature from directly compensating for example the teeth and land owners saying that was a very much a a breach of fiduciary duty to the to the beneficiaries and I know Mr. Herrera, you brought that up in your testimony in March. Susi uh and I have reviewed all

the testimony from March also. Um for the record, there was other testimony as well. I also think you know we have classes of people now on Guam that are that have um claims for justice. We have those in the ancestral lands whose land has been returned to the government of Guam. And we're supposed to either give them back their land or compensate them. And we have not compensated those whose lands we have kept, not just for the runway, but for the brand new airport expansion industrial park that they want to lease out to investors. All

those properties we didn't return. We kept. And uh we've put a promise to the landowners to compensate them later for keeping those properties. The Tremor Land Trust was very, it was recognized just a few years ago in district court To be a um justice law that is supposed to write the injustices of federal land takings. Again, massive land takings. We could not probably with even with the large inventory in the Chammor land trust take care of all the families whose lands were taken especially if we're talking about descendants which the bill the law does and

the court recognized. So um and then there we had another bill recently regarding uh one property whose the land owners uh did not pay the property tax. So or they lost that property again to the Navy government and want the land returned now from the government of Guam. That land's also in the Chammor land trust I believe or it's not clear. I can't remember. But those are things I just feel like so these new classes of people if we're going to open that up I agree with Senate former Senator Lamarena this is uh if we

want to bring justice then we might need to look at how are we going to do this for everyone who feels like when they sold their property to the government of Guam the government of Guam did not meet their obligation or when they failed to pay the land taxes to the Navy government. Um, that was uh an unjust taking by the Navy government. That's not who we have recognized so far. We've recognized those whose lands were involuntarily taken by the Navy government in condemnation proceedings. So it's um I I just so I just think yes

we need to as the former senator said there's restitution perhaps right that needs to be made. Um the property I believe up until even recently has been thought to be used for a hospital. Even in 2010 there was plans there was a study done by the Navy as to it's going to be used for the hospital because they knew they needed to help us build a hospital back then. they did a study so that they would begin with a maternal child health unit and then they would bring the rest of them unit by unit so

we wouldn't interfere with the current hospital. So, I do appreciate that. And I just um I'm also thinking we're also the government of Guam is currently in the middle of condemning property involuntarily in some other pl village while we are saying we're not going I don't I don't know it just we're not going to take care of those whose property was condemned. uh they're condemning property against the will of the land owners and we are going to by this bill return property that was sold to the government of Guam. I uh so I I I

I do believe there's justice to be made, but I just don't think it's Equivalent that we're going to say I just and I I support that we're going to give restitution to the Paris family, but I just don't like when they try to not you, but when political people try to equate that land takings by the federal government involuntarily after the war, by the maybe is is is the same thing that we're talking about today. Um I think we need to continue to make sure we don't violate that trust that we have created for beneficiaries

and that we honor the intentions of that trust and we've really created an injustice on top of an injustice by the delay. And Senator Lamarena was correct when the property was proposed to be leased uh back then there was actually RFPs that went out for that. So I don't think it was the CLTC's delay. I think it was the governor at the time did not want to go forward with any of those RFPs and Gita was supposed to, you know, continue to help to develop that property, financing, all of it that just there there are

some other issues involved, but we need to continue to advocate for the return of the land, for example, Miss McCullum's property. Absolutely. And there is a process that we're supposed to be doing that. I haven't seen any movement on that process since uh maybe 2019 2020. It's a process set up by the Congress for and our governor supposed to be making requests. Um, so when they put out the RFP, that was as recent as 2017 when CLTC again put it on the list of uh for lease, right? All right. So my questions are when when

the claim was filed, the first claim that you can recall, Mr. repairs was filed. Is there any uh monetary amount that has ever been discussed as to the value of the construction equipment that was not fulfilled by the government at the time and I know those values would be different based on today's values. It's my understanding, excuse me, it's my understanding that there was a list of equipment and my dad had um delineated on uh his transaction on papers the types of equipment. They were all off the road heavy equipment that were at the high

end of pricing for the day. As to the valuation of that, I don't I don't recall. All right. Do you know um perhaps the types and number of equipment that we Yeah, we're talking dozers, graders, those types of things. So, there's like a list that exists. Yeah, they're million dollar $2 million items these days. Okay. All right. Um and do you some there was some testimony That says uh I think it was Senator Taus that said um the property was sold for below value. Are there any do you have any records or anything that indicates

what the value was? As I understand it, um on the dealer transfer, it was valued at not valued. It was sold at 30 per square meter, 30 cents per square meter as the valuation in those days. I I'm not familiar with how that worked. I'm not sure either, but I'm wondering if land management could help us to determine that or something if there were comparable properties. I don't I don't honestly I don't know of any sales back then except this one because I'm not familiar. 1951. Yeah. Uh so but I I would be interested to

see if we could figure that out somehow. And um um do you when you I've been wait so I've been looking for that bill that you talked about that was sponsored in the 23rd mom legislature and passed and then vetoed by the acting governor but I can't find it yet. Do you have the veto message on hand? Are you able to read the veto message for us? The veto message? No, I do not. Okay. I'm I'm want to know what that veto was about as well. All right. Um when do you know um When they

were in that bill contemplating return of onethird of the property? I looked at values that that was in the 23rd. That was way back in um I don't know the year. Do you remember the year? Oh, I think you have it in your testimony. 30 years 30 years ago 1995 Senator Addis say vice speaker. Is that somewhere around there? That might be right. Um, yeah, I'm sure. I I don't know. I'm going to look at that bill to see if they have some valuation in there as well. And uh and the one-third of the property.

Um, so part of the property that we're talking about now and according to the bill, we're not going to return the portion that's reserved for the Naftan Manionata shrine. We're not going to return the portion that's being used at the Chammoral Cultural Center. Um I and so I I just want to calculate what's what what portion of the property are we be are we returning? Is it is it equivalent to one/3 or more? um with reference to 3238. The bill specifies the two specific lot numbers that were to be returned. They are both unused properties

of the Yoka Point area. As the valuation senator, you know, those things are basically perspective. Um if you looked at um my Dad's intent with Manny Guerrero and Governor Colton Skinner, they were looking at a place to build a hospital to meet or exceed the um amenities and the ideals that the the US Navy hospital was being built upon. And so they found this particular land to be attractive to them. And obviously they assign certain values to it. And no question we could have they'll push for a different price. My dad found value in the

use of equipment that was to be disposed of by the military. Yeah. All right. And the earliest um Yeah. I'm just trying to get to some kind of um formulation here. the earliest uh claim that was filed I I don't see any value on it as well like normal normally we put claims we put a value as to some like contractors put claims on properties because there's a certain amount but the the claim that's circulating here there there is no value on it. Are you aware of any prior claims that were filed with with any

value and this was cla filed by a Frank Jr. Is that uh that's not your dad or is that your dad? Uh Frank Dy Paris Jr. is my brother. Your brother. Okay. Just want to make sure. So are you aware of any claims that were filed by your dad? I don't recall. I It's been a while. I have not read that claim of interest in many many years. Uh nor have I read a claim of interest of my brother Gregory as well. Okay. All right. All right. Well, thank you and again, thank you to all

the family who are here and uh I do recognize that it it um you in all your discussions over the past years have been always in support of a hospital continuing to be built and that the property be used for a hospital and I'm very uh grateful for that and I believe that's very Did you want to answer? If I may, Senator, um the the efforts that we have been putting forward for our claim on Noa Point go back to the middle '70s. This is not new to us, and we have never um claimed other

than to look at um what we could do to remedy the situation. We've been working through many legislatores through several governors and uh and even with the current governor, we've approached her prior to the Manila site being a considered hospital site. All right. Thank you. Um yes, please state your name for the record. Um Buenes, my name's Margarita Perezo. I just wanted to mention that it it was our father that Frank D. Perez that actually filed the first claim in 1996 after the Senator Angel Santos's bill. Um after that. Okay. Right. And then also there

were our dad actually wrote on in his handwriting on the deed that we have that says there were 61 Pieces of construction equipment. And that's all I wanted to share. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. Um if we could get a copy of that part. Maybe we've got a copy somewhere in our records, but that would be great. Sitosi, thank you. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate you. Senator Bernett, you're recognized, sir. Many do. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak. And thank you for uh the testimony from the uh panel. And thank you, Mr.

prayers for your testimony is uh uh well and and also for your family's uh generosity and um allowing this parcel of land to be used to construct the old Guam Memorial Hospital. I know you remember we met in the uh last term and this I believe this you're right it was prior to the uh selection of Miguelo and I think the gist of the meeting from what I can remember was uh why aren't we using the property up at eal point uh to construct the uh new hospital and as everyone's aware I've been one of

the uh senators grateful for the support of my colleagues who did support that to push for the construction of the hospital at Ebal point which I still believe uh makes sense I just don't know how we're going to be able to afford uh the billion dollar healthcare project and frankly I anticipated I'd have support for the effort to build a timooning in this 38th Guam uh legislature but just looking at the lay of the land and you know taking into account the uh politics Not on your your part sir but I definitely think that there's

some uh big- time politics at at uh play here um I think it was Mr. Celestial who talked about uh chessboard and I and I think in in some ways this bill is uh the nuclear option of taking this property off of the people of Guam's uh chessport because with all due respect and I said this is the first uh hearing. I don't think that this is our property uh to give away. I think this is the people of Guam's uh property. And I only say that because in some of the testimony provided and the

documents that I've been able to review, uh there was an exchange of uh money even though the construction part was never uh fulfilled. And then and just calculating how much was $51,000 worth in 19 uh 51. And I also wonder, it's hard to do research on a lot of these old land transactions. This could have been like one of the biggest uh land transactions ever conducted. I wonder in the history of government of Guam but that that value in today's money is well over half a million uh dollars. So um and I too I was

I grew up believing that the uh Paris family donated uh the property and it doesn't change you know what I feel about the family's generosity and providing that significant piece of property. Um but I do also uh with all due respect kind of take offense and this is where the politics comes in when we have uh people like uh the people of Guam who have had their land unjustly taken. People like my Grandmother whose land up in Radio Baragato was was taken away. That was the only land that we had in the family. To this

day in 2025 we don't have any land, you know. And so to compare situations like that to situations like a parcel of property that was willingly uh sold for me it's uh I don't want to say offensive but it is a little bit of apples and and oranges and and so I I I was really anticipating uh new information in this hearing and you know we've we've been in receipt of a lot of these documents and looking over and and it kind of seems like the sticking point is that your uh late father didn't receive

the construction construction equipment. But I I just uh while I agree there there might be an opportunity for compensation there, I don't think that that justifies uh taking this land out of the CLTC inventory cuz again I believe it's the people of Guam's land. But 61 pieces of construction equipment and you have no idea how much that would be 96 uh pieces of construction equipment. I'm sorry. One more time. Thank you. So the it was that ma'am miss I'm sorry it's 61 pieces of construction equipment. Okay. So I mean I I don't know why we

don't have a bill in front of us to give the Paris family 61 pieces of construction equipment because that for me that would make us empas you know like okay the government of Guam made a Commitment to you. I'm not even sure you need 61 pieces of construction equipment right now with the Paris brothers right which is also a little ironic. uh to me. But really, outside of any new information, I I think that Mr. Herrera's testimony was right that the bill leaves out key uh facts that are relevant um to this, like the original

registered landowner, Mr. Lorenzo Manisa Leon Guerrero. I mean, what if descendants of Mr. Leon Guerrero came forward and said that Atkins didn't fulfill part of uh the sale of that property? would we then be entertaining uh that and and it's really unfortunate because I again I I respectfully I respect the Paris family but I I I just feel like we're setting a very dangerous uh precedent um and in lie of any new information that for me signifies a smoking gun that would you know kind of say hey that property was unjustly taken or um the

compensation wasn't there because again you know it's just a tough tough situation, but you know that that's the crown jewel of the Chammoral Land Trust uh Commission and and this property has the potential to generate revenue. I mean, this is the number one problem on Guam. We're talking about affordable housing. We're talking about our people leaving island and this uh property uh generates uh could generate potentially, you know, millions of Dollars that would go to putting infrastructure on these uh these um these land trust uh lots. So again, I I with all due respect, I

cannot support the uh bill as it's uh written. And um unless there's some type of new information that comes out, I think we're treading down a a dangerous road because there are many people on our island who have been who have had their lands taken. And we all know this and we're not entertaining bills to return their land or to compensate them or or anything like that. And so uh thank you, Mr. chair and for for the opportunity to speak again on the uh bill and I look forward to any other testimony that that could

be provided uh to the committee as a member of the committee. I am uh I have looked up and down and all kinds of places. I've read Mr. Skinner's uh affidavit uh but I just don't think that uh not receiving the construction company especially with the exchange of money which is where you know the the title that gov holds on this land it's free and clear. I mean, it's the highest type of title that the people of Guam can u have. And so, in saying that, I'm not saying you don't have a case. I'm just

saying, okay, if it was about the construction equipment, then there maybe there's some way that you can be made whole on that end. But I don't believe that uh giving away the the the people's land, which was, you know, sold to our people uh by your father is the remedy for that uh lack of compensation. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Barnett. And I'd like to thank all the uh individuals here who have come to testify. And just like with any other piece of legislation that goes through The process, uh any bills that come to my

committee, you know, I I have an obligation to hear them uh in support or in opposition, that's not uh that's not my my call. My call is when it's referred to my committee, I have to do my due diligence and to ensure that public hearing is is held for the bills and then we can determine whether what uh all those that have come in favor or opposition to and then do a committee markup should the bill proceed to uh move to the session floor where it's voted by all 15 members of the body. Uh with

that being said, uh just like every other bill before this bill, uh I've I've done that due process. Um the this bill was submitted to the legislature by the governor of Guam uh by her authority of the organic act and I did have a first public hearing and this is a second public hearing so that we can continue to receive information on this. I know this hasn't been the the first issue of it and I know that the the chairwoman the committee on lands previously too has had bills in her committee too that as well

that you know she had to have uh public hearings for and um we will continue to to hear these testimonies and we'll continue I'll continue to keep the record open for anyone else who would like to submit written testimonies as well uh in favor or in opposition to to this bill. And with that being said, uh the committee, as I said, will continue to accept written statements on today's hearing, which may be mailed to my office on the second floor of the Guam Congress building at 163 Challeng. You may also send me your statements to

us at Vice Speaker Tony at Guam legislature.gov. Thank you all for your participation. And this public hearing is adjourned and the time is now 10:23 a.m. Thank you all very much for your participation.